Could The Top 5 Conferences Split From NCAA?

[superman7515]

College Sports Administrators Recognize Growing Gulf (http://www.tallahassee.com/usatoday/article/1749365&usatref=sportsmod?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Sports |p)


NEW YORK -- Amid conference expansion and the growing gap between the top five major football playing conferences â?? the SEC, Big Ten, Pac-12, Big 12, ACC and Notre Dame â?? and everyone else, the question remains: Do the five power conferences need the NCAA? Would they better off taking their football and playing on their own?

Two university presidents said Wednesday they aren't in favor of a split from the NCAA. However, Nebraska chancellor Harvey Perlman added that a "serious conversation" needs to take to place about the gap. "You have to either fight it or accommodate it, but I think some accommodation needs to be made," Perlman said at the IMG Intercollegiate Athletics Forum.

Wake Forest president Nathan Hatch also doesn't believe five power conferences should leave NCAA. "We would have to set up a whole system," he said.

When asked what could be one of the biggest changes to come to college sports in the next five years, Notre Dame athletics director Jack Swarbrick cited an "another division, a Division 5" in the NCAA among the top football-playing schools....

[BisonBacker]

If that happens then I would want NDSU to be in the second division and they would have to move up. I'd also want to see a playoff system in that division for sure.

[NHwildEcat]

If those schools were to leave the NCAA, would be it be for all sports or just football? And if only for football? Will Title IX still be in effect for them? Would they be able to drop women's programs as a result of football not being in the NCAA anymore? So many things could happen as a result...crazy times it would be indeed.

[BisonBacker]

If those schools were to leave the NCAA, would be it be for all sports or just football? And if only for football? Will Title IX still be in effect for them? Would they be able to drop women's programs as a result of football not being in the NCAA anymore? So many things could happen as a result...crazy times it would be indeed.

I would thnk it would almost have to be all sports. Imagine the nightmare of having to follow two different sets of rules for student athlete's, coaches, admin ect.

[bullitt_60]

That would be the same thing we have now (or 20 years ago really), just renamed.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

"If BCS schools or any other schools decide they'd be better served by having their own association, then they can and should go do that," NCAA president Mark Emmert said. "You'd have to start your own enforcement arm, replicate all the championships and recreate all the arms of the NCAA but just do it in a way that serves your own purposes better."

Hmmm.

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/fbs-football/658-realignmentaggedon-should-the-ncaa-intervene


If the NCAA is really the oversight committee into the excesses of collegiate sports, don't they have a duty, as well as a right, to do something to stop the madness?

A year ago, I would have thought that threatening to strip all the Big 10 schools from NCAA certification would have been a bad idea. Now, after the latest round of money-grubbing, I'm wondering if it might be something that saves the true amateurs, while jettisoning those that have athletics as a pure profit-making operation - like Mr. Loh seems to want as an aspiration for his athletics program.

If the Big 10 thinks that their product has any value outside of the NCAA tournament, let them do it. If they think that their brand is not only bigger than the NCAA, but surpasses it, they should be able to have their cable network and shop it to whomever they wish.

If they think that academics don't matter, rivalries don't matter, and fans don't matter, let them sink or swim in the cold, hard marketplace without the backstop of the NCAA, or indeed compete in any NCAA championships.

Let the Big 10 really sink, or swim, based on the minor league athletics marketplace rather than one that is tied, at least somewhat, to the academic virtues that the NCAA espouses.

The NCAA may think that conference realignment doesn't involve them, but it does, way more than they may even imagine.

Every move like this, every move where Maryland trades games with North Carolina for games with Rutgers, cheapens the NCAA.

[BisonBacker]

That would be the same thing we have now (or 20 years ago really), just renamed.
You are correct sir. I think it's just a matter of reshuffling the deck so to speak. Only thing is they added the jokers to the deck this time. Those jokers are the big 5 conferences. Really can't say I blame them either. Reading that article you can surely see the problems the NCAA has trying to cater to one division that has such a huge divide. What works for Texas and Nebraska won't work for Prairie View Or NDSU and about 80% of the conference when you are talking those kinds of numbers.

[darell1976]

If that happens then I would want NDSU to be in the second division and they would have to move up. I'd also want to see a playoff system in that division for sure.

I hope if they split that would be a sure thing. I wouldn't want UND to move up unless there was a playoff system.

[BisonBacker]

Hmmm.

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/fbs-football/658-realignmentaggedon-should-the-ncaa-intervene

LFN its like anything else in life it's all about the money. There will always be the have's and have not's and there isn't anything that will change that. Trying to relegate fairness is a slippery slope. what maybe fair to you may not be to me. I was surprised they could get all those presidents into one room and be able to come to a consensus on this thing without it coming to heated battle. Then again it probably did and Emmert is just sugar coating it who knows.

[Apphole]

Good riddance.

Now we really will be at the top level of college football once we move because the BCS will no longer be college football. No NCAA means no classes for athletes. It will truly become a semipro league.

[darell1976]

Good riddance.

Now we really will be at the top level of college football once we move because the BCS will no longer be college football. No NCAA means no classes for athletes. It will truly become a semipro league.

Will the BCS hog all the media or will ESPN actually start acknowledging the rest of the college football world.

[RichH2]

A rather organic evolution for Bigs over last 35 yrs. Isuue is control and specifically over $$$$.. Ever sinve they forced divisions to limit small school input as to their $$ the process has continued. Now formally leave NCAA. Dont think so. Coerce less control by NCAA and pay it less of a share of $ . Yup.
Rather a pathetic shortsighted chase for a buck. Agree with Coach K, more likely the current mania for $ now will more harm to college football than any long term benfit.
Now I'm an old codger but I find with all the nonsensical re alignment I am losing interest in much of BCS football. Used to follow BC. Now dont care. Imagine same will happen with WWa, Syr, Pitt.

[Nova09]

If those schools were to leave the NCAA, would be it be for all sports or just football? And if only for football? Will Title IX still be in effect for them? Would they be able to drop women's programs as a result of football not being in the NCAA anymore? So many things could happen as a result...crazy times it would be indeed.

Can't imagine the NCAA would allow them to keep other sports in the NCAA after voluntarily taking football out. And Title IX is a federal law, so it applies regardless of the NCAA. The school would have to provide equal opportunities for women and men to play sports whether it is under the NCAA banner, some new organizing body, or a combination.

[BEAR]

One word for them. BYE.

I mean really, are they here now anyway? They compete in non-recognized bowl games for major corporations and mom and pop companies. Their budgets are astronomical and they own the media market . So they are not really here anyway. What would be different? Oh yeah, they wouldn't have to comply with the stupid NCAA rules. If other aux. services on campus are privatized and ran by major companies with bids, (hmm.. kinda like bowl games are), then make BCS football an aux. service for colleges and let the rest of us play for the NCAA football championship.

[GannonFan]

Will the BCS hog all the media or will ESPN actually start acknowledging the rest of the college football world.

Why would ESPN acknowledge the rest of the college football world when the audience doesn't? It's not in ESPN's best interest to cater to things there isn't an audience for. We all love FCS football and our teams, but in the grand scheme of things, the vast majority of the people who turn on to watch sports on TV don't want to watch our level of football. ESPN covers what the most people want to watch.

[darell1976]

Why would ESPN acknowledge the rest of the college football world when the audience doesn't? It's not in ESPN's best interest to cater to things there isn't an audience for. We all love FCS football and our teams, but in the grand scheme of things, the vast majority of the people who turn on to watch sports on TV don't want to watch our level of football. ESPN covers what the most people want to watch.

But they also cover stuff most people don't watch. Who watches the WNBA, the X-Games, Pool. If they would have ESPNU or ESPN2 televise more FCS games maybe more of an audience will want it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why would ESPN acknowledge the rest of the college football world when the audience doesn't? It's not in ESPN's best interest to cater to things there isn't an audience for. We all love FCS football and our teams, but in the grand scheme of things, the vast majority of the people who turn on to watch sports on TV don't want to watch our level of football. ESPN covers what the most people want to watch.

But will people still care about an NCAA tournament where it's purely about making money as a form of minor-league operation than when it's at least shrouded in academics and student-athletes? I think the real answer to that is know, which is exactly why Emmert is calling the "big four"'s bluff.

What I think is funny is that the ACC is thrown in there. It's only a "big 5" because of their hoops programs.

[DJnva]

As a fan of a team moving up and with dreams of eventually grabbing an NIU-type in a BCS bowl, if the top conferences bolt I wouldn't have much problem with it assuming the remaining FBS schools grab the top FCS programs and work out a playoff system.

[bluehenbillk]

So if they did do that, and it was already stated the FCS label would be gone after this season are we just going to call ourselves "Division Three" moving forward under this set-up?

[walliver]

If the big 5 leave (I don't think they will due to antitrust issues), would there be any reason to have both FBS and FCS? I don't think so.

Bowl games with the "Little 5" would not be big money makers. A playoff system would be needed. Without trickle down money from bowl games of money games, remaining FBS teams would likely look for cost savings, including lower scholarship limits. There would actually be little legitimate indication for splitting D-1 by current guidelines. Likely there would be a scholarship division and a non-scholarship division.

Anti-trust issues will probably prevent this from happening.

[AmsterBison]

If the big 5 leave (I don't think they will due to antitrust issues), would there be any reason to have both FBS and FCS? I don't think so.

Yeah, I think that the FBS and FCS would combine.

I kinda wish that the Big 5 would leave - for all sports. They are destroying everything good in college athletics. Left to their own devices, they will run completely amok and eventually get slapped down hard.

[UNH Fanboi]

If they leave, can the IRS finally strip them of their "non-profit" status?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If they leave, can the IRS finally strip them of their "non-profit" status?

+1

[MplsBison]

Been talked about forever. If there is any kind of split, the new association is not just going to be the top five conferences. It's going to be most of if not all of I-A schools that split away.

Because they'll have to recreate everything the NCAA does, for all sports.

Then in that case, the schools in I-AA will just become the true, remaining division I of the NCAA and the NCAA will be completely ignored by the national media, just as DII and DIII are now.

[Sonic98]

You are correct sir. I think it's just a matter of reshuffling the deck so to speak. Only thing is they added the jokers to the deck this time. Those jokers are the big 5 conferences. Really can't say I blame them either. Reading that article you can surely see the problems the NCAA has trying to cater to one division that has such a huge divide. What works for Texas and Nebraska won't work for Prairie View Or NDSU and about 80% of the conference when you are talking those kinds of numbers.

The system is rigged. We know that.

[Yank]

Been talked about forever. If there is any kind of split, the new association is not just going to be the top five conferences. It's going to be most of if not all of I-A schools that split away.
.

I doubt that the big 5 would take the rest of the FBS (1-A) schools with them to share all of that TV money with.

[FargoBison]

If those schools were to leave the NCAA, would be it be for all sports or just football? And if only for football? Will Title IX still be in effect for them? Would they be able to drop women's programs as a result of football not being in the NCAA anymore? So many things could happen as a result...crazy times it would be indeed.

It will all be about football. The Bigger schools want that $$$ all to themselves. These bigger schools need the smaller schools for other sports, you need a 68 team basketball tournament and all of those schools fill their home schedules with games vs the smaller schools.

I'm not sure if people realize this or not but the power six conferences in basketball play 89% of their non-conference games at home. You really think they'll want to change that by moving into their own super division?

[MplsBison]

I doubt that the big 5 would take the rest of the FBS (1-A) schools with them to share all of that TV money with.

They already share some of it now. Who says they won't keep that same arrangement? Say 15% to the five lower conferences and 85% to the marquee conferences.

[Nova09]

They already share some of it now. Who says they won't keep that same arrangement? Say 15% to the five lower conferences and 85% to the marquee conferences.

But why would the lower conferences agree to that? For that matter, why would most BCS schools want this situation predicated on the idea that those with the most resources should be allowed to do whatever they want without legislative restrictions? This isn't directed at you, but isn't the whole idea of an organizing body to establish ground rules so everyone knows they are operating within the same system? This is quite clearly a case of the tail wagging the dog, and I'd like to believe that college presidents are too smart to go along with it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

They already share some of it now. Who says they won't keep that same arrangement? Say 15% to the five lower conferences and 85% to the marquee conferences.

In other words, the "Let them eat cake!" arrangement... How did that turn out?

[Hammerhead]

Or is is that most people follow what they can watch on TV? Our local sports radio guys were talking yesterday about how great it is that Army and Navy are playing this weekend because it's the only college football game on TV. One of the hosts did note that there are FCS playoff games on TV although he didn't provide any details. (I'm in Portland so anyone who follows local sports is familiar with the Big Sky conference.) The SHSU/MSU and GSU/ODU teams will probably put on a better show than the service academies.


Why would ESPN acknowledge the rest of the college football world when the audience doesn't? It's not in ESPN's best interest to cater to things there isn't an audience for. We all love FCS football and our teams, but in the grand scheme of things, the vast majority of the people who turn on to watch sports on TV don't want to watch our level of football. ESPN covers what the most people want to watch.

[DFW HOYA]

It will all be about football. The Bigger schools want that $$$ all to themselves. These bigger schools need the smaller schools for other sports, you need a 68 team basketball tournament and all of those schools fill their home schedules with games vs the smaller schools.

In reality, they don't. How many "smaller schools" are part of a bowl structure that is very close to 68 teams already?

[GannonFan]

But will people still care about an NCAA tournament where it's purely about making money as a form of minor-league operation than when it's at least shrouded in academics and student-athletes? I think the real answer to that is know, which is exactly why Emmert is calling the "big four"'s bluff.

What I think is funny is that the ACC is thrown in there. It's only a "big 5" because of their hoops programs.

Of course people will still care about an NCAA tournament where it's about making money and very little to do about academics. Guys have been leaving for the NBA after one year for a good decade and a half now, Calipari turns over a new starting 5 every year, and people still watch in droves. It's about the brackets and betting and office pools and so on. Little to none of it is about watching "student athletes" play just because we like students. The upsets are a great piece of it, and that could suffer, but I'm sure they won't mind when they are counting up their millions in profits.

[GannonFan]

Or is is that most people follow what they can watch on TV? Our local sports radio guys were talking yesterday about how great it is that Army and Navy are playing this weekend because it's the only college football game on TV. One of the hosts did note that there are FCS playoff games on TV although he didn't provide any details. (I'm in Portland so anyone who follows local sports is familiar with the Big Sky conference.) The SHSU/MSU and GSU/ODU teams will probably put on a better show than the service academies.


ESPN has been showing FCS football for years and it doesn't seem to be catching on. Same goes for any other lower division. People tend to watch the highest and best level of whatever sport it is. You can't tell me that if ESPN highlighted FCS football every week that all of a sudden people would care that much more about FCS football compared to Notre Dame and Alabama. I think ESPN plays a big role in sports, but they can't erase a century of people caring more about the big FBS schools and the tens of millions of dollar profit difference between the FBS and FCS schools. Heck, we can't even get all the playoff games sold out in smaller stadiums by our own fans who see this football every week for how many years?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Of course people will still care about an NCAA tournament where it's about making money and very little to do about academics. Guys have been leaving for the NBA after one year for a good decade and a half now, Calipari turns over a new starting 5 every year, and people still watch in droves. It's about the brackets and betting and office pools and so on. Little to none of it is about watching "student athletes" play just because we like students. The upsets are a great piece of it, and that could suffer, but I'm sure they won't mind when they are counting up their millions in profits.

If the top teams decide to leave the NCAA in a move based on pure economics I will stop watching all their associated sports, and I don't think I'm alone in that either. And I honestly believe there are enough of us to make a difference.

My main interest in the collegiate sporting world is how it interacts with Lehigh. When there is no interaction, I cease to care. Take for example Lehigh's upcoming basketball game vs. North Texas. I care about North Texas only because Lehigh competes against them this year, and both could be NCAA tournament teams. If North Texas competed in their own league, with their own tournament, would I care? No way.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

ESPN has been showing FCS football for years and it doesn't seem to be catching on. Same goes for any other lower division. People tend to watch the highest and best level of whatever sport it is. You can't tell me that if ESPN highlighted FCS football every week that all of a sudden people would care that much more about FCS football compared to Notre Dame and Alabama. I think ESPN plays a big role in sports, but they can't erase a century of people caring more about the big FBS schools and the tens of millions of dollar profit difference between the FBS and FCS schools. Heck, we can't even get all the playoff games sold out in smaller stadiums by our own fans who see this football every week for how many years?

Of course if ESPN highlighted FCS football every week people would care more about FCS football! C.J. McCollum gets frequent highlights and side mentions on ESPN every so often and more people "care" about him as a result. Would it surpass Notre Dame and Alabama? No, but that's the extreme - mentions of Vanderbilt on ESPN won't make people care more about Notre Dame and Alabama, either, but more people would follow it. The goal isn't to be bigger than Alabama, it's merely to be a part of the whole fabric. That's two different things.

[MplsBison]

In other words, the "Let them eat cake!" arrangement... How did that turn out?

Just fine? What specific negative are you referring to and for whom?

[MplsBison]

But why would the lower conferences agree to that? For that matter, why would most BCS schools want this situation predicated on the idea that those with the most resources should be allowed to do whatever they want without legislative restrictions? This isn't directed at you, but isn't the whole idea of an organizing body to establish ground rules so everyone knows they are operating within the same system? This is quite clearly a case of the tail wagging the dog, and I'd like to believe that college presidents are too smart to go along with it.

Because college presidents at schools in the MAC, CUSA, MWC, Big East (football) and Sun Belt know that staying in the NCAA and not moving to the new association with the big conferences would be the same thing as moving down to I-AA. They'd be going from "mentioned in the conversation" to "who?".

That's not where they want to be, regardless of "how it is".

[MplsBison]

In reality, they don't. How many "smaller schools" are part of a bowl structure that is very close to 68 teams already?

Huh? Come on now DFW...you know better.

A) his very valid point about filling out tournaments and schedules for other sports that play many more games per season and post season than football
B) filling out regular season football schedules with more "should be" wins - coaches at these programs need wins to survive
C) honestly take a look - just how many of the 70 bowl teams are not from the Big Ten, ACC, Pac12, BigXII and SEC?

[MplsBison]

If the top teams decide to leave the NCAA in a move based on pure economics I will stop watching all their associated sports, and I don't think I'm alone in that either. And I honestly believe there are enough of us to make a difference.

My main interest in the collegiate sporting world is how it interacts with Lehigh. When there is no interaction, I cease to care. Take for example Lehigh's upcoming basketball game vs. North Texas. I care about North Texas only because Lehigh competes against them this year, and both could be NCAA tournament teams. If North Texas competed in their own league, with their own tournament, would I care? No way.

Yes, you are alone. Or very close to alone.

Very, very few people even have close to the principles and knowledge that you have of big time college athletics. You are the definition of a fringe person in that respect.

I can't believe you actually think a normal person is going to stop watching Texas, Ohio State or Notre Dame because they created their own association. Maybe you and someone who will read about the financial exploits in the NYT and probably doesn't watch college football anyway.


Normal people are going to keep watching the big time teams because that's what they know to watch. They're no more going to start tuning into formally division I-AA teams than they are going to start watching DIII teams.

[MplsBison]

Of course if ESPN highlighted FCS football every week people would care more about FCS football! C.J. McCollum gets frequent highlights and side mentions on ESPN every so often and more people "care" about him as a result. Would it surpass Notre Dame and Alabama? No, but that's the extreme - mentions of Vanderbilt on ESPN won't make people care more about Notre Dame and Alabama, either, but more people would follow it. The goal isn't to be bigger than Alabama, it's merely to be a part of the whole fabric. That's two different things.

Nonsense. Sorry, but that's just the world we live in.

People wouldn't starting following DIII football if ESPN was pushing that (which they never would) simply because it's "small time", "minor leagues". Or how about the example of minor league profession baseball? People aren't going to start watching that over MLB if some cable network was pushing it. Won't happen.

[FargoBison]

In reality, they don't. How many "smaller schools" are part of a bowl structure that is very close to 68 teams already?

Have you seen ratings for regular season college basketball games? They are horrific....College basketball absolutely needs the big dance to survive and the smaller schools are what drives a lot of interest in that tournament. Plus like I said among the power six conferences 89% of their non-conference games are played at home, these schools make a ton of revenue at the gate..while in football it is all about TV money. Plus you have a number of other sports that play a ton of home games against smaller schools and these smaller schools are integral parts of those sports(they aren't just schedule filler like in football). I haven't even gotten into the political and legal ramifications of a complete and total split.

A split only works with football. That said I don't know why they'd need to split considering these power conferences basically control college football as it is.

[MplsBison]

Have you seen ratings for regular season college basketball games? They are horrific....College basketball absolutely needs the big dance to survive and the smaller schools are what drives a lot of interest in that tournament. Plus like I said among the power six conferences 89% of their non-conference games are played at home, these schools make a ton of revenue at the gate..while in football it is all about TV money. Plus you have a number of other sports that play a ton of home games against smaller schools and these smaller schools are integral parts of those sports(they aren't just schedule filler like in football). I haven't even gotten into the political and legal ramifications of a complete and total split.

A split only works with football. That said I don't know why they'd need to split considering these power conferences basically control college football as it is.

Very well said!

A new college athletics association only works if it includes basically all of the I-A football conferences now, plus possibly some of the more powerful non-football conferences (Big West, MVC, A10, etc.)


So really, where's the big advantage? I'm not seeing it. The NCAA won't let the very tip top of college football just split that sport off into its own little world of "NFL Saturday". Will never happen, the courts and politicians would get involved to stop that.

[GannonFan]

If the top teams decide to leave the NCAA in a move based on pure economics I will stop watching all their associated sports, and I don't think I'm alone in that either. And I honestly believe there are enough of us to make a difference.

My main interest in the collegiate sporting world is how it interacts with Lehigh. When there is no interaction, I cease to care. Take for example Lehigh's upcoming basketball game vs. North Texas. I care about North Texas only because Lehigh competes against them this year, and both could be NCAA tournament teams. If North Texas competed in their own league, with their own tournament, would I care? No way.

Well, you just defined yourself as a fringe viewer since you only care about Lehigh.

Whether we like it or not, the general population does not care about FCS level football. I don't see what that's such a big hangup with people. How does knowing that affect your enjoyment of FCS football? When I'm watching the Hens, it matters zero to me whether people outside the stadium or on tv sets are watching what I'm watching.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Well, you just defined yourself as a fringe viewer since you only care about Lehigh.

Whether we like it or not, the general population does not care about FCS level football. I don't see what that's such a big hangup with people. How does knowing that affect your enjoyment of FCS football? When I'm watching the Hens, it matters zero to me whether people outside the stadium or on tv sets are watching what I'm watching.

I don't think I'm as fringe as you think. When you add up all the Northwestern State, Delaware, St. Francis (PA), Wofford, Lehigh and fans of hundreds of schools that would be shut out of this process and feel this way, you'll have a pretty large number of people. (Not to mention the Sun Belt, MAC and other small-time FBS conferences.) There's no real legitimate reason why Lehigh fans should suddenly start to watch Penn State games if their games mean nothing to their school.

Many of us here feel like if FCS football got a proper airing, with proper publicity, that more people "would care". And this matters. Hofstra's president cited as a reason for pulling the plug on their program that nobody cares who won the FCS National Championship. Well, would he feel like that if FCS had a national game of the week on ESPNU, and Hofstra and Shuart Stadium featured on the ESPN family of networks at least once? I don't know the answer to that. But I also know that I'd rather watch a battle between 6-2 FCS teams of any stripe over .500 Big East/C-USA teams battling any day of the week, and again, I'd imagine I'm not alone.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Well, you just defined yourself as a fringe viewer since you only care about Lehigh.

Whether we like it or not, the general population does not care about FCS level football. I don't see what that's such a big hangup with people. How does knowing that affect your enjoyment of FCS football? When I'm watching the Hens, it matters zero to me whether people outside the stadium or on tv sets are watching what I'm watching.

I couldn't agree more. Just as long as there is enough people to have it on.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I couldn't agree more. Just as long as there is enough people to have it on.

Actually though, I will watch any and all FCS that I can get my hands on.

[FargoBison]

FCS TV exposure has gotten much better with the CAA on NBC Sports and the Big Sky with ROOT. I can watch both games with Direct TV and the TV production is on par with most FBS games. Back when NDSU first joined it wasn't exactly easy to watch FCS football outside of the playoffs and a few SWAC teams being on TV.

[lionsrking2]

Nonsense. Sorry, but that's just the world we live in.

People wouldn't starting following DIII football if ESPN was pushing that (which they never would) simply because it's "small time", "minor leagues". Or how about the example of minor league profession baseball? People aren't going to start watching that over MLB if some cable network was pushing it. Won't happen.

First of all, comparing lower divisions of NCAA football to minor league baseball is apples and oranges ... minor league baseball, is just that - minor league baseball. It's a feeder system for MLB and fans realize it as such ... yet it's still popular in it's own right and media exposure has increased greatly over the last 15-20 years.

FCS and Divisions 2 and 3 are not feeder systems for FBS football ... they're separate entities (under NCAA umbrella) made up of schools who share common traits, such as enrollment size, funding, demographics, market size, etc ... LSU isn't gonna call Southeastern Louisiana and say, "hey, we need a cornerback for the Peach Bowl, send us Robert Alford," or "our backup QB needs some snaps, we're sending him down to get some work."

Most kids who sign with FCS, D2 or D3 schools are for the most part, playing at the highest level they're deemed capable of playing and they're not going to "rise through the system." Of course most FCS schools, a lot of D2 schools and perhaps some at the D3 level, have players who are capable of playing FBS football, but through the recruiting process, they either fell through the cracks, were the odd man out, or were late bloomers once they got to college, but they are where they are, and where they're most likely to stay unless they transfer. But to suggest their championships are any less important or meaningful than an FBS championship, or a bowl win at the FBS level, is a sign of ignorance or misunderstanding of what competition is all about.

Again I ask, why do you support North Dakota State, and why do you frequent this message board if you feel FBS football is where it's at and anything less is a waste of time?

[UNAPride]

First of all, comparing lower divisions of NCAA football to minor league baseball is apples and oranges ... minor league baseball, is just that - minor league baseball. It's a feeder system for MLB and fans realize it as such ... yet it's still popular in it's own right and media exposure has increased greatly over the last 15-20 years.

FCS and Divisions 2 and 3 are not feeder systems for FBS football ... they're separate entities (under NCAA umbrella) made up of schools who share common traits, such as enrollment size, funding, demographics, market size, etc ... LSU isn't gonna call Southeastern Louisiana and say, "hey, we need a cornerback for the Peach Bowl, send us Robert Alford," or "our backup QB needs some snaps, we're sending him down to get some work."

Most kids who sign with FCS, D2 or D3 schools are for the most part, playing at the highest level they're deemed capable of playing and they're not going to "rise through the system." Of course most FCS schools, a lot of D2 schools and perhaps some at the D3 level, have players who are capable of playing FBS football, but through the recruiting process, they either fell through the cracks, were the odd man out, or were late bloomers once they got to college, but they are where they are, and where they're most likely to stay unless they transfer. But to suggest their championships are any less important or meaningful than an FBS championship, or a bowl win at the FBS level, is a sign of ignorance or misunderstanding of what competition is all about.

Again I ask, why do you support North Dakota State, and why do you frequent this message board if you feel FBS football is where it's at and anything less is a waste of time?

+1

The FCS ego on parts of this thread was making me chuckle. :D

I'm a life-long Alabama fan, although my strongest support is for my (currently D2) alma mater. I can tell you that very few folks in SEC-land know the difference between FCS, D2, D3, etc. In my neck of the woods, if you're not in the SEC, you're not interesting to most.

The mega schools will eventually split from the NCAA (in all sports) and the schools that "moved up" will be back where they were before, basically.

A bit of 'reset', if you will.

[lionsrking2]

+1

The FCS ego on parts of this thread was making me chuckle. :D

I'm a life-long Alabama fan, although my strongest support is for my (currently D2) alma mater. I can tell you that very few folks in SEC-land know the difference between FCS, D2, D3, etc. In my neck of the woods, if you're not in the SEC, you're not interesting to most.

The mega schools will eventually split from the NCAA (in all sports) and the schools that "moved up" will be back where they were before, basically.

A bit of 'reset', if you will.


We're in the same boat with LSU 45 minutes down the road ... dunno if super conferences will do a clean split from the NCAA, but I have talked to some folks at FBS schools who see a three-tiered DI emerging. And I agree at that point, we'll see some lower level FBS schools migrate back towards cost containment, once they realize the path to mega riches has been cut off. How many that will be? I don't know, but there are plenty of good candidates, including at least one in my state, if not two.

[MplsBison]

I don't think I'm as fringe as you think. When you add up all the Northwestern State, Delaware, St. Francis (PA), Wofford, Lehigh and fans of hundreds of schools that would be shut out of this process and feel this way, you'll have a pretty large number of people. (Not to mention the Sun Belt, MAC and other small-time FBS conferences.) There's no real legitimate reason why Lehigh fans should suddenly start to watch Penn State games if their games mean nothing to their school.

Many of us here feel like if FCS football got a proper airing, with proper publicity, that more people "would care". And this matters. Hofstra's president cited as a reason for pulling the plug on their program that nobody cares who won the FCS National Championship. Well, would he feel like that if FCS had a national game of the week on ESPNU, and Hofstra and Shuart Stadium featured on the ESPN family of networks at least once? I don't know the answer to that. But I also know that I'd rather watch a battle between 6-2 FCS teams of any stripe over .500 Big East/C-USA teams battling any day of the week, and again, I'd imagine I'm not alone.

I-AA doesn't deserve that kind of treatment any more than DII or DIII.

[MplsBison]

First of all, comparing lower divisions of NCAA football to minor league baseball is apples and oranges ... minor league baseball, is just that - minor league baseball. It's a feeder system for MLB and fans realize it as such ... yet it's still popular in it's own right and media exposure has increased greatly over the last 15-20 years.

FCS and Divisions 2 and 3 are not feeder systems for FBS football ... they're separate entities (under NCAA umbrella) made up of schools who share common traits, such as enrollment size, funding, demographics, market size, etc ... LSU isn't gonna call Southeastern Louisiana and say, "hey, we need a cornerback for the Peach Bowl, send us Robert Alford," or "our backup QB needs some snaps, we're sending him down to get some work."

Most kids who sign with FCS, D2 or D3 schools are for the most part, playing at the highest level they're deemed capable of playing and they're not going to "rise through the system." Of course most FCS schools, a lot of D2 schools and perhaps some at the D3 level, have players who are capable of playing FBS football, but through the recruiting process, they either fell through the cracks, were the odd man out, or were late bloomers once they got to college, but they are where they are, and where they're most likely to stay unless they transfer. But to suggest their championships are any less important or meaningful than an FBS championship, or a bowl win at the FBS level, is a sign of ignorance or misunderstanding of what competition is all about.

Again I ask, why do you support North Dakota State, and why do you frequent this message board if you feel FBS football is where it's at and anything less is a waste of time?

Your entire post other than the last sentence was a complete tangent. I know fully well that DIII, DII and DI-AA football teams aren't actual minor league teams affiliated with DI-A teams. You're ridiculous for even saying that.

I made the perfectly valid point that the *media coverage* of DIII, DII and DI-AA football compared to DI-A football is analogous to the coverage of minor league baseball compared to major league baseball.


I'm on this board because this is the main I-AA board and NDSU is in I-AA. I will follow NDSU wherever they go. I greatly hope that NDSU can make it up to I-A someday. That would be amazing! I-AA was fun for a little bit, winning soon to be two national titles is nice. But it's time for the next challenge.

[MplsBison]

+1

The FCS ego on parts of this thread was making me chuckle. :D

I'm a life-long Alabama fan, although my strongest support is for my (currently D2) alma mater. I can tell you that very few folks in SEC-land know the difference between FCS, D2, D3, etc. In my neck of the woods, if you're not in the SEC, you're not interesting to most.

The mega schools will eventually split from the NCAA (in all sports) and the schools that "moved up" will be back where they were before, basically.

A bit of 'reset', if you will.

The valid point you bring up is that for most normal people there are three tiers of college football recognition.

Tier I - the big time, your Big Ten, Pac 12, SEC type teams
Tier II - the I-A teams not in the marquee conferences (so Louisiana Tech for example)
Tier III - everything else. Unless you're an alumni or care about someone who is an alumni, you don't know and you don't care.

That's how it is in MN too. Regular people know the Gophers and the Big Ten. There are no real Tier II teams here. Everything else is "local colleges" in Star Trib, NDSU gets the same coverage as the MIAC and NSIC schools.

NDSU could easily be that Tier II school here in the cities if they moved up, considering the amount of talent they get from the cities every year. Their best three players right now are from the cities.


But as to your point about mega schools splitting off from the NCAA, review the thread. Not going to happen for just football and anything other than that - what's the point?

[lionsrking2]

Your entire post other than the last sentence was a complete tangent. I know fully well that DIII, DII and DI-AA football teams aren't actual minor league teams affiliated with DI-A teams. You're ridiculous for even saying that.

I made the perfectly valid point that the *media coverage* of DIII, DII and DI-AA football compared to DI-A football is analogous to the coverage of minor league baseball compared to major league baseball.


I'm on this board because this is the main I-AA board and NDSU is in I-AA. I will follow NDSU wherever they go. I greatly hope that NDSU can make it up to I-A someday. That would be amazing! I-AA was fun for a little bit, winning soon to be two national titles is nice. But it's time for the next challenge.

You didn't specify that you were referring only to "media coverage." You said winning championships below the FBS level were meaningless because they're not the highest level and made a comparison to minor league championships ... I gave you perfectly legitimate reasons why your comparison is not valid, which is supported by your post count and apparent unconditional support of your alma mater, North Dakota State. If your comparison were valid, you would probably be off ice fishing or elk hunting somewhere with the rest of the Bison faithful who wouldn't give two flips about their two-bit playoff game today. And fans of other FCS schools around the country would not tune in or come to this board to discuss it.

If your suggestion is that level of importance, relevance and/or meaning, is directly proportional to quantity of media coverage, I'm not sure you really want to go there.

[skinny_uncle]

Isn't this the same idea as the BCS????