2012 FCS AFCA All-America Team

[smallcollegefbfan]

EASTERN ILLINOIS’ ERIK LORA AND ARKANSAS-PINE BLUFF’S BRANDON THURMOND HIGHLIGHT THE 2012 AFCA FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIP SUBDIVISION COACHES’ ALL-AMERICA TEAM

WACO, TEX. — Eastern Illinois wide receiver Erik Lora and Arkansas-Pine Bluff defensive lineman Brandon Thurmond headline the 2012 AFCA Football Championship Subdivision Coaches’ All-America Team announced today by the American Football Coaches Association.

The AFCA has selected an All-America team since 1945 and currently selects teams in all five of its divisions. What makes these teams so special is that they are the only ones chosen exclusively by the men who know the players the best — the coaches themselves.

Lora led the nation in receiving yards per game at 138.67, total receiving yards at 1,664 and receptions per game with 11.33. He caught 12 touchdowns and threw for one touchdown. Thurmond led the nation in sacks with 15.5 and came in third in the nation in tackles for loss with 20. He had 56 total tackles, a forced fumble, a blocked kick, and is on the Buchanan Award watch list.

2012 AFCA Football Championship Subdivision Coaches’ All-America Team
Offense
Pos Name Ht. Wt. Cl. School Coach Hometown (High School)
WR Aaron Mellette 6-4 220 Sr. Elon Jason Swepson Sanford, N.C. (Southern Lee)
WR Erik Lora 5-10 181 Jr. Eastern Illinois Dino Babers Miami, Fla. (Columbus)
TE Kyle Juszczyk 6-3 245 Sr. Harvard Tim Murphy Medina, Ohio (Cloverleaf)
OL Earl Watford 6-4 295 Sr. James Madison Mickey Matthews Philadelphia, Pa. (Simon Gratz)
OL Terren Jones 6-7 320 Sr. Alabama St. Reggie Barlow Ft. Walton Beach, Fla. (Choctaw)
C Mike Sellers 6-0 290 Jr. Citadel Kevin Higgins Summerville, S.C. (Fort Dorchester)
OL Randy Richards 6-4 310 Sr. Missouri St. Terry Allen Royal Palm Beach, Fla. (Royal Palm Beach)
OL Will Post 6-6 310 Sr. Eastern Washington Beau Baldwin Portland, Ore. (Southridge)
QB DeNarius McGhee 6-0 210 Jr. Montana St. Rob Ash Euless, Texas (Trinity)
RB Miguel Maysonet 5-10 210 Sr. Stony Brook Chuck Priore Riverhead, N.Y. (Riverhead)
RB Zach Zenner 6-0 215 So. South Dakota St. John Stiegelmeier Eagan, Minn. (Eagan)

Defense
Pos Name Ht. Wt. Cl. School Coach Hometown (High School)
DL Caraun Reid 6-2 305 Sr. Princeton Bob Surace Bronx, N.Y. (Mount St. Michael)
DL Davis Tull 6-3 230 So. Tennessee-Chattanooga Russ Huesman Knoxville, Tenn. (Bearden)
DL Brandon Thurmond 6-2 260 Sr. Arkansas-Pine Bluff Monte Coleman Augusta, Ga. (Laney)
DL Kenneth Boatright 6-4 253 Sr. Southern Illinois Dale Lennon Bolingbrook, Ill. (Bolingbrook)
LB Matt Evans 6-0 228 Sr. New Hampshire Sean McDonnell Hanover, Mass. (Thayer Academy)
LB Robert McCabe 6-2 234 Sr. Georgetown (D.C.) Kevin Kelly Newtown Square, Pa. (Malvern Prep)
LB Jody Owens 6-0 223 Sr. Montana St. Rob Ash Mesquite, Texas (Horn)
DB AJ Cruz 5-9 190 Sr. Brown Phil Estes Lake Forest, Calif. (Santa Margarita Catholic)
DB Kejuan Riley 6-1 208 Sr. Alabama St. Reggie Barlow Wetumpka, Ala. (Wetumpka)
DB Marcus Williams 5-11 194 Jr. North Dakota St. Craig Bohl Minneapolis, Minn. (Hopkins)
DB Darnell Taylor* 6-0 195 Sr. Sam Houston St. Willie Fritz Mesquite, Texas (Mesquite)

Specialists
Pos Name Ht. Wt. Cl. School Coach Hometown (High School)
P Bobby Wenzig 6-2 180 Jr. Alabama St. Reggie Barlow San Diego, Calif. (Westview)
PK Patrick Murray 5-7 182 Sr. Fordham Joe Moorhead Mahwah, N.J. (Don Bosco Prep)
AP Carlos Anderson 5-8 172 Sr. Northern Iowa Mark Farley Blue Springs, Mo. (Blue Springs)

*-2011 All-American

[DJnva]

The AFCA has selected an All-America team since 1945 and currently selects teams in all five of its divisions. What makes these teams so special is that they are the only ones chosen exclusively by the men who know the players the best — the coaches themselves.

Strikes me as odd that 2 of the 3 players up for the Payton Award aren't All-Americans.

But hey, it's the coaches and we all know their weekly poll is the best as well, so... :D

[ODUMonarch1]

Strikes me as odd that 2 of the 3 players up for the Payton Award aren't All-Americans.

But hey, it's the coaches and we all know their weekly poll is the best as well, so... :D

#WestCoastBias LOL

[catbob]

Strikes me as odd that 2 of the 3 players up for the Payton Award aren't All-Americans.

But hey, it's the coaches and we all know their weekly poll is the best as well, so... :D

After hearing MSU coach Rob Ash describe the voting procedures for All-Conference teams, this doesn't surprise me. Coaches teams are all about who coaches have the most respect for, who you gameplan around, who worries you as an opposing coach. Not who has the most stats. Jody Owens won defensive MVP for the Big Sky even though several guys have much better numbers. It was a pretty interesting interview with Ash. Basically he says media lists focus more on stats, like the Payton, Buchanan, etc.

So it doesn't surprise me to see some Payton finalists aren't on the list.

[ITmonarch10]

QB DeNarius McGhee 6-0 210 Jr. Montana St. Rob Ash Euless, Texas (Trinity)

Hes like the 3rd or 4th best Quarterback in ever category. Hes a great quarterback ,but there are several Quarterbacks who beat him out.

[catbob]

Hes like the 3rd or 4th best Quarterback in ever category. Hes a great quarterback ,but there are several Quarterbacks who beat him out.

Again, not a stat award like the Payton.

[ITmonarch10]

After hearing MSU coach Rob Ash describe the voting procedures for All-Conference teams, this doesn't surprise me. Coaches teams are all about who coaches have the most respect for, who you gameplan around, who worries you as an opposing coach. Not who has the most stats. Jody Owens won defensive MVP for the Big Sky even though several guys have much better numbers. It was a pretty interesting interview with Ash. Basically he says media lists focus more on stats, like the Payton, Buchanan, etc.

So it doesn't surprise me to see some Payton finalists aren't on the list.

Even if you don't focus on stats their is a handful of QBs who could be considered better. So why did they pick him specifically.
*Info listed to give a good picture of all the good FCS QBs. They aren't all stat machines but I still say there a plenty to pick over McGhee.







Sortable Stats: Passing








Individual Leaders
http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sp/v/tab_gen2.gif
Stats by Position (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stats/byposition?conference=I-AA_all)























Passing

Sacked


Name
Team
G

QBRat (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stats/bycategory?cat=Passing&conference=I-AA_all&year=2012&sort=30)
Att (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stats/bycategory?cat=Passing&conference=I-AA_all&year=2012&sort=2)
Comp (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stats/bycategory?cat=Passing&conference=I-AA_all&year=2012&sort=1)
Pct (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stats/bycategory?cat=Passing&conference=I-AA_all&year=2012&sort=20)
Yds
Y/G (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stats/bycategory?cat=Passing&conference=I-AA_all&year=2012&sort=21)
Y/A (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stats/bycategory?cat=Passing&conference=I-AA_all&year=2012&sort=22)
TD (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stats/bycategory?cat=Passing&conference=I-AA_all&year=2012&sort=5)
Int (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stats/bycategory?cat=Passing&conference=I-AA_all&year=2012&sort=3)

Sack (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stats/bycategory?cat=Passing&conference=I-AA_all&year=2012&sort=7)
YdsL (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stats/bycategory?cat=Passing&conference=I-AA_all&year=2012&sort=8)



Taylor Heinicke
ODU (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/oah)
12

162.1
535
367
68.6
4655
387.9
8.7
41
13

25
-178



Jimmy Garoppolo
EIU (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/eed)
12

134.2
540
331
61.3
3823
318.6
7.1
31
15

29
-179



Casey Brockman
MuSt (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/mmz)
11

144.0
517
359
69.4
3729
339.0
7.2
28
10

29
-201



Kevin Yost
IDSt (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/iib)
11

128.1
553
349
63.1
3695
335.9
6.7
24
15

31
-174



Brady Attaway
SFA (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/sst)
11

122.1
570
334
58.6
3671
333.7
6.4
29
21

7
-59



Jamal Jackson
ApSt (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/aak)
12

147.0
406
268
66.0
3278
273.2
8.1
21
8

24
-179



Derek Carr
UTM (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/tte)
11

150.7
415
264
63.6
3276
297.8
7.9
31
8

12
-81



Mike Piatkowski
Drak (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/dde)
11

134.9
452
282
62.4
3273
297.5
7.2
22
10

19
-173



Jeff Mathews
Cor (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/ccr)
9

137.5
405
251
62.0
3196
355.1
7.9
18
11

27
-213



Brad Sorensen
SUU (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/ssp)
11

135.0
439
273
62.2
3139
285.4
7.2
23
10

37
-225



Jonathan Carkhuff
Dav (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/ddb)
11

118.1
504
309
61.3
3138
285.3
6.2
16
15

32
-235



Thomas Wilson
Elon (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/eeo)
11

151.0
379
248
65.4
3115
283.2
8.2
25
10

31
-172



Mike Colvin
Leh (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/llc)
11

140.7
369
227
61.5
3114
283.1
8.4
19
16

7
-39



Mason Mills
SanD (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/sbc)
11

153.7
361
252
69.8
3106
282.4
8.6
20
12

27
-171



Wynrick Smothers
UCA (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/uca)
12

145.7
427
277
64.9
3103
258.6
7.3
31
9

19
-115



Matt Brown
ILSt (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/iid)
12

143.1
391
245
62.7
2998
249.8
7.7
25
10

11
-66



Zach Lewis
More (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/mmw)
11

143.0
402
266
66.2
2955
268.6
7.4
25
11

11
-67



Ryan Higgins
For (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/ffl)
11

137.0
387
255
65.9
2940
267.3
7.6
14
9

26
-190



Denarius McGhee
MTSt (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/mmv)
12

141.9
402
268
66.7
2934
244.5
7.3
23
10

28
-154

[fatmonarch]

I would like to know which opposing coach doesn't gameplan around Taylor heinicke. Heinicke is much more than stats. Watch him play and you will see that his stats are the results of him being that good.

[Chuck Norris]

No Brent Russell? This list is not legit.

[GlassOnion]

No Jeremy Kimbrough? This list is not legit.

[Chuck Norris]

No Jeremy Kimbrough? This list is not legit.

+1 & no Taylor Heinicke or Jaquisky Tartt?

[smallcollegefbfan]

After hearing MSU coach Rob Ash describe the voting procedures for All-Conference teams, this doesn't surprise me. Coaches teams are all about who coaches have the most respect for, who you gameplan around, who worries you as an opposing coach. Not who has the most stats. Jody Owens won defensive MVP for the Big Sky even though several guys have much better numbers. It was a pretty interesting interview with Ash. Basically he says media lists focus more on stats, like the Payton, Buchanan, etc.

So it doesn't surprise me to see some Payton finalists aren't on the list.

I agree with Ash 100%! That's the way it should be. A player should have numbers but it should not be entirely about numbers. Most media don't really know what they are looking at on Saturdays. The reason I say that is because you often see the offensive lines poorly done on media teams because there are no stats. Media want to look at stats while coaches and scouts look at many different factors with stats being just one small part of it. You should not pick a player to an All-America team who does not have good numbers but you should pick the best player. I think Heinicke is great and should be on a team but I have no problem with this selection. McGhee is a stud. He's so good that despite not being NFL size for a QB he is athletic enough that he will get looks by the next level, which is amazing for a 5'11 or 6'0 QB.

[smallcollegefbfan]

No Brent Russell? This list is not legit.

Russell missed some games this year so that's no shock. Coaches tend to downgrade players who have had some issues like Russell has had this year. I'll be shocked if Russell is drafted this year.

He's more of a reputation pick right now. While he is a beast and a great player he has not had the 2012 season that is a slam dunk 1st team All-America season. He has not been quite as consistent, has been arrested and suspended, missing games, and been banged up some. He's still one of the best but he did not have the best season at DT.

[smallcollegefbfan]

+1 & no Taylor Heinicke or Jaquisky Tartt?

I do think Kimbrough and Tartt should have been on the list. I'm not a big fan of Matt Evans. I think he is good but I like Kimbrough better.

As for Tartt, he will be a NFL prospect because of how good he is here in 2 years. He is big, can run, and played well before he got hurt against Kentucky.

[DJnva]

I agree with Ash 100%! That's the way it should be. A player should have numbers but it should not be entirely about numbers. Most media don't really know what they are looking at on Saturdays. The reason I say that is because you often see the offensive lines poorly done on media teams because there are no stats. Media want to look at stats while coaches and scouts look at many different factors with stats being just one small part of it. You should not pick a player to an All-America team who does not have good numbers but you should pick the best player. I think Heinicke is great and should be on a team but I have no problem with this selection. McGhee is a stud. He's so good that despite not being NFL size for a QB he is athletic enough that he will get looks by the next level, which is amazing for a 5'11 or 6'0 QB.


How come the coaches know so much when voting for this team but their weekly poll is usually panned here?

[catbob]

I have seen Heinecke play. He is a better passer than McGhee I won't even argue that.

If you saw McGhee's offensive line at times, you'd understand how crazy it is he even moves the chains sometimes.

[DJnva]

I'm sure the dude is good, and I know it's not all about numbers, but more completions, a higher completion percentage, a lot more TDs, the same INT %, more yards, higher Y/A, more rushing yards, more rushing TDs (10 to 4) and I just don't get it.

I'm sorry McGhee's OL sucked, and if numbers were close, I'd understand trying to "break the tie" somehow...

In the long run, it's not a huge deal, just fodder for the message boards, but to me it's not close.

[smallcollegefbfan]

How come the coaches know so much when voting for this team but their weekly poll is usually panned here?

That's a good question and I can easily explain that. Coaches listen to other coaches so the reps from the MEAC speak highly of a player in that league and their opinion is taken heavily when they pound the table for a player in their league. Then, an OOC who saw or played them may speak up and either agree or disagree. When it comes to the poll they simply turn in a vote and don't discuss with each other as they do with the AFCA team. Many coaches have their SID vote for them instead of them doing it as well. SIDs are not included in the discussions for the AFCA team. There is a committee of coaches who talk it out and discuss the picks.

For example, the CAA does not have a "vote". They do a conference call and discuss the players. That's why you never see them announce "unanimous" picks. The CAA is probably the best league when it comes to selecting their all-conference teams and they do theirs the exact same way the AFCA does from what I understand.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I'm sure the dude is good, and I know it's not all about numbers, but more completions, a higher completion percentage, a lot more TDs, the same INT %, more yards, higher Y/A, more rushing yards, more rushing TDs (10 to 4) and I just don't get it.

I'm sorry McGhee's OL sucked, and if numbers were close, I'd understand trying to "break the tie" somehow...

In the long run, it's not a huge deal, just fodder for the message boards, but to me it's not close.

You just said you are sure the dude is good and didn't seem to know this stuff about him. How can you say it's not close when you haven't seen the player? You have to see everyone to truly know how good they are. Heinicke has had a brick wall of a line at times and not had to run for his life as much as McGhee has. I'm not putting down Heinicke but I have seen both and while I think in terms of numbers it's not close that Heinicke should be ahead of him, when you consider everything outside the basic stats I think you can certainly argue McGhee ahead of Heinicke. I like both of them a lot but I also think we need to see these other players before saying they can't compare to someone in our own league. I can tell you right now if I was a DC I would be more scared of McGhee but I would not be all too excited about playing either one of them.

[DJnva]

I'm sorry I'm not up to date the the woes of the Montana St OL.

So, tell me what outside of basic stats leads you in that direction. So far I hear that McGhee is ahead of Heinicke because McGhee's OL is no good.

[fatmonarch]

You rush heinicke, he burns you either by scrambling or going deep. Coaches have been quoted that heinicke's best trait is extending plays when they break down. He also audibles often if he sees a blitz or a defensive weakness. I'm not buying that mcghee is that much better at scrambling that you can ignore stats and actual passing.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I'm sorry I'm not up to date the the woes of the Montana St OL.

So, tell me what outside of basic stats leads you in that direction. So far I hear that McGhee is ahead of Heinicke because McGhee's OL is no good.

I honestly think you can go either way here. I love both of them. You can argue Heinicke over him because he's a better passer but McGhee is a better runner who has had a poor OL and is playing in a league just as good as the CAA right now. He's also been MVP of the Big Sky before and has been lighting it up his whole career. For those who don't know his name he has been a household name in the Big Sky for three years.

[fatmonarch]

Ok now we are throwing out career numbers. Heinicke threw for more yards last year in 9 games as a true freshman as mcghee threw this season on 12 games. Heinicke threw 25 tds to 1 int last season. Other than the fact the mchhee is 1 year older, heinicke has had a better career.

[catbob]

McGhee is just one of those guys that has it. He makes plays out of nothing, extends plays with his legs, rushes for 6 yards on a third down when he needs 5. Just a winner. It's really hard to pinpoint why he is so special.

He is one of those guys that can put the entire offense on his back and win a game by sheer determination. You can't measure that in any statistical category. He is clearly the MVP of the entire MSU team, in my opinion.

Another thing you might look at is the system you play in. ODU passes the ball over 54% of the time, while MSU passes just over 43% of the time. ODU has 134 more pass attempts than MSU.

Again, if it were me personally I'd have Heinicke as 1st team. Just trying to give reasons why McGhee was picked.

[DJnva]

I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree. I think when the numbers show such a big disparity there's a reason. And Heinicke's rushing stats are better than McGhee's as well and JMU's coach said if Heinicke was a RB he'd be all-conference. Hyperbole? Sure, but there's a reason behind it...

EDIT: Not trying to make this any bigger of an argument. I do understand your points, but in this specific case (Heinicke vs. McGhee) I think the numbers are so one-sided that the argument to go against them needs to be very convincing.

[catbob]

I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree. I think when the numbers show such a big disparity there's a reason. And Heinicke's rushing stats are better than McGhee's as well and JMU's coach said if Heinicke was a RB he'd be all-conference. Hyperbole? Sure, but there's a reason behind it...

If you read my post, I said I agree with you. Just defending my guy and giving potential reasons why he is 1st team.

[DJnva]

If you read my post, I said I agree with you. Just defending my guy and giving potential reasons why he is 1st team.


I was responding to the other post--I was too slow to hit POST :)

And yeah, ODU's offense helps Heinicke, but he's ahead in the rate stats (TD %, Yards per attempt, etc) not just the counting ones.

And now I feel like one of those Sam Houston posters that take over every thread they are mentioned in. ;)

[ITmonarch10]

I agree with Ash 100%! That's the way it should be. A player should have numbers but it should not be entirely about numbers. Most media don't really know what they are looking at on Saturdays. The reason I say that is because you often see the offensive lines poorly done on media teams because there are no stats. Media want to look at stats while coaches and scouts look at many different factors with stats being just one small part of it. You should not pick a player to an All-America team who does not have good numbers but you should pick the best player. I think Heinicke is great and should be on a team but I have no problem with this selection. McGhee is a stud. He's so good that despite not being NFL size for a QB he is athletic enough that he will get looks by the next level, which is amazing for a 5'11 or 6'0 QB.

You do realize that alot of the QBs on my list are like 6'1 tops, Heinicke is only 6 foot? Casey Brockman is the only reason Murray State has even won a single game this season. Brad Sorensen had to do more with a lot less around him at SUU. Matt Brown lead illinois St to playoff for the 1st time in years against tougher defenses than that of the Big Sky. Even if you take Heinicke out the equation, there are others David Carr of UTM, Wynrick Smother of UCA, Thomas Wilson of Elon, Jamal Jackson of App st, Aramis Hilary of Coastal Carolina that you could make an argument to take before Mchgee without having to even resort to stats. A lot of these guys don't have the same talent surrounded him both sides of ball like Mchgee has and do more with less ,so that whole Best Player argument is bull****. I think it more like the expanded Big Sky Coaches forming some unholy alliance.

[Walkon79]

Russell missed some games this year so that's no shock. Coaches tend to downgrade players who have had some issues like Russell has had this year. I'll be shocked if Russell is drafted this year.

He's more of a reputation pick right now. While he is a beast and a great player he has not had the 2012 season that is a slam dunk 1st team All-America season. He has not been quite as consistent, has been arrested and suspended, missing games, and been banged up some. He's still one of the best but he did not have the best season at DT.

Similar situation for Zach Minter, but without the arrest.

[frozennorth]

surprised that only one NDSU player made the cut, i think you can make a pretty solid case for billy turner. On the other hand noone else aside from williams really stands out.

[Pard4Life]

Not surprised to see Fordham's Murray as the kicker... he is pure NFL material.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I was responding to the other post--I was too slow to hit POST :)

And yeah, ODU's offense helps Heinicke, but he's ahead in the rate stats (TD %, Yards per attempt, etc) not just the counting ones.

And now I feel like one of those Sam Houston posters that take over every thread they are mentioned in. ;)

I didn't say I would not take Heinicke. Just said I can see why a coach would pick him and I would go with either one. I think both are great players. McGhee does more with less talent around him while Heinicke has more talent and does a lot with it. I don't think you go wrong with either one.

[lionsrking2]

That's a clown list bro.

[smallcollegefbfan]

That's a clown list bro.

I am guessing your biggest beaf is not having Alford and I agree on that. I do think there are some serious snubs. While I love the way the coaches pick the team in terms of having conference calls and debating names I do think there were some politics here and at least 4-5 names that got snubbed big time.

[Mr. C]

As usual, the AFCA did a pretty poor job in choosing an All-American team.

[FargoBison]

I think a few MVFC players were snubbed on the defense. .

[chattownmocs]

This list is much better than the first all-america team we saw.

[NSF]

Colton Underwood from Illinois State definitely deserves to be on, and an argument could be made for Aaron Archie from Indiana State. Marcus Williams is the perfect example of a guy without big stats that commands the respect of coaches. Other than his return stats, none of his numbers are anything to write home about--he just takes away a side of the field.

[lionsrking2]

I am guessing your biggest beaf is not having Alford and I agree on that. I do think there are some serious snubs. While I love the way the coaches pick the team in terms of having conference calls and debating names I do think there were some politics here and at least 4-5 names that got snubbed big time.

You would be correct. Of course we're used to it so I've come to expect it.

[AmsterBison]

I have seen Heinecke play. He is a better passer than McGhee I won't even argue that.

If you saw McGhee's offensive line at times, you'd understand how crazy it is he even moves the chains sometimes.

I've been wondering about Montana State's OL since the beginning of the season when saw the number of freshmen in Montana State's offensive line, including both the first and second team LT and LG! I pretty much wrote off Montana State when I saw that. Shows what I know. Nice job by the coaching staff (and, of course, Denarius too.)

That said, I don't have an opinion on the QB selection. RB? I suppose they picked Zenner before Breitenstein passed him in yards last week.

[smallcollegefbfan]

You would be correct. Of course we're used to it so I've come to expect it.

That's going to change because I know of at least 2-3 outlets who will name him first-team.

[DJnva]

I suppose they picked Zenner before Breitenstein passed him in yards last week.

We're told that strictly looking at the numbers doesn't matter.

[DoubleH]

While I admit I have only seen McGhee play once (last week in the playoffs against Stony Brook), and while I admit he appears to be a very good and dynamic player, arguing that he is a better QB than Heinicke is absurd. It's honestly not close. Heinicke is the best FCS QB I've ever seen, and my guess is he's the best since probably Steve McNair.

I don't think people are quite grasping exactly what he is doing right now, as a TRUE SOPHOMORE. And as my avatar reveals, I say this as a fan of a conference opponent, and wishing Towson had picked him off 5 times in October.

[BluBengal07]

here's the full publication link on this. might as well provide the whole story than just part of it.

http://www.afca.com/article/article.php?id=2276

[Walkon79]

While I admit I have only seen McGhee play once (last week in the playoffs against Stony Brook), and while I admit he appears to be a very good and dynamic player, arguing that he is a better QB than Heinicke is absurd. It's honestly not close. Heinicke is the best FCS QB I've ever seen, and my guess is he's the best since probably Steve McNair.

I don't think people are quite grasping exactly what he is doing right now, as a TRUE SOPHOMORE. And as my avatar reveals, I say this as a fan of a conference opponent, and wishing Towson had picked him off 5 times in October.

Maybe we'll have a chance to compare in real time down the line. Now wouldn't that be SWEET!!!

[DoubleH]

Maybe we'll have a chance to compare in real time down the line. Now wouldn't that be SWEET!!!

That would be a great matchup.

[smallcollegefbfan]

We're told that strictly looking at the numbers doesn't matter.

Voting was done before Zenner passed him so no that had nothing to do with it.

One thing people need to remember about the voting process is that often times they announce teams several days to a week after the voting was already concluded. There is a lot of prep work done on these announcements.

[smallcollegefbfan]

While I admit I have only seen McGhee play once (last week in the playoffs against Stony Brook), and while I admit he appears to be a very good and dynamic player, arguing that he is a better QB than Heinicke is absurd. It's honestly not close. Heinicke is the best FCS QB I've ever seen, and my guess is he's the best since probably Steve McNair.

I don't think people are quite grasping exactly what he is doing right now, as a TRUE SOPHOMORE. And as my avatar reveals, I say this as a fan of a conference opponent, and wishing Towson had picked him off 5 times in October.

Have you seen Armanti Edwards? Edwards is better than Heinicke. I think there have been a couple of guys since McNair who are better than Heinicke. With that said, he's very good and right up there. Heinicke should be a first-teamer and my only thing was that I could see coaches picking McGhee over him who like a more mobile guy but I do think Heinicke is probably the best QB in FCS this year. He should be first-team. I don't think he's a NFL draft pick unless he grows some more and his arm gets stronger. His arm strength is just a shade off of NFL caliber.

[ITmonarch10]

Have you seen Armanti Edwards? Edwards is better than Heinicke. I think there have been a couple of guys since McNair who are better than Heinicke. With that said, he's very good and right up there. Heinicke should be a first-teamer and my only thing was that I could see coaches picking McGhee over him who like a more mobile guy but I do think Heinicke is probably the best QB in FCS this year. He should be first-team. I don't think he's a NFL draft pick unless he grows some more and his arm gets stronger. His arm strength is just a shade off of NFL caliber.

Heinicke has more rushing yards on less attempts and 6 more rushing touchdowns?xeyebrowx
Hes good but their are still several guys you I'd take before McGhee.

[DJnva]

Why is McGhee called more mobile when Heinicke runs for more yards, for a higher average, and for more TDs?

At some point, *some* numbers have to back it up, no? Otherwise, it's a popularity contest.

[DoubleH]

Have you seen Armanti Edwards? Edwards is better than Heinicke. I think there have been a couple of guys since McNair who are better than Heinicke. With that said, he's very good and right up there. Heinicke should be a first-teamer and my only thing was that I could see coaches picking McGhee over him who like a more mobile guy but I do think Heinicke is probably the best QB in FCS this year. He should be first-team. I don't think he's a NFL draft pick unless he grows some more and his arm gets stronger. His arm strength is just a shade off of NFL caliber.

Armanti Edwards was the other guy I thought of as possibly being better, but Heinicke is a better pure passer IMO; obviously Edwards was a better runner. But again, Heinicke has TWO MORE YEARS ahead of him. Even Armanti Edwards wasn't this good this young.

Size will be an issue re the NFL, but his arm is adequate right now and he can get stronger over the next few years.

[Saint3333]

Trivia Question: What was the last year App didn't have a player on this list?

[Saint3333]

Armanti Edwards was the other guy I thought of as possibly being better, but Heinicke is a better pure passer IMO; obviously Edwards was a better runner. But again, Heinicke has TWO MORE YEARS ahead of him. Even Armanti Edwards wasn't this good this young.

Size will be an issue re the NFL, but his arm is adequate right now and he can get stronger over the next few years.

You mean AE wasn't as good the year App beat Michigan and beat the runner up by 28 in the title game, that was his true soph. season.

[ITmonarch10]

Trivia Question: What was the last year App didn't have a player on this list?

Better Question

Who Cares?xrolleyesx

[DoubleH]

You mean AE wasn't as good the year App beat Michigan and beat the runner up by 28 in the title game, that was his true soph. season.

Hmmm, thought that was his junior season... damn impressive...

I'll retract the McNair statement and say he's the best since Edwards.

[Silenoz]

Severe lack of the best player in FCS

[ITmonarch10]

You mean AE wasn't as good the year App beat Michigan and beat the runner up by 28 in the title game, that was his true soph. season.

This statement is kinda weird. He didn't beat another team/person in football by 28 all by himself.
AE is a great quarterback ,but there are a fair amount of passing Quarterbacks who are better than him. Like Bo Levi or Ricky Santos
AE Strength was his ability to run and throw as a true dual threat quarterback.

[Walkon79]

Why is McGhee called more mobile when Heinicke runs for more yards, for a higher average, and for more TDs?

At some point, *some* numbers have to back it up, no? Otherwise, it's a popularity contest.

DeNarius is not a running quarterback unless he has to. The Cats have very few designed QB running plays, especially near the goal line. Ask those that have watched him and they will tell you what makes him special is his ability to feel the pressure, escape said pressure, and make plays downfield with his arm and his legs. To me being more mobile is just this, making something magical happen when the protection breaks down.

Better rushing numbers and touchdowns at the QB position does not make one "more mobile".

[ITmonarch10]

DeNarius is not a running quarterback unless he has to. The Cats have very few designed QB running plays, especially near the goal line. Ask those that have watched him and they will tell you what makes him special is his ability to feel the pressure, escape said pressure, and make plays downfield with his arm and his legs. To me being more mobile is just this, making something magical happen when the protection breaks down.

Better rushing numbers and touchdowns at the QB position does not make one "more mobile".

You can say that about several QB's that are better than him. There are at least 3 QB's that are more deserving than McGhee. FYI, ODU has no designed run played for out Quarterbacks.

It only pisses me off because your defending someone who probably isn't even the best QB in his own conference let alone the entire league.

[fatmonarch]

DeNarius is not a running quarterback unless he has to. The Cats have very few designed QB running plays, especially near the goal line. Ask those that have watched him and they will tell you what makes him special is his ability to feel the pressure, escape said pressure, and make plays downfield with his arm and his legs. To me being more mobile is just this, making something magical happen when the protection breaks down.

Better rushing numbers and touchdowns at the QB position does not make one "more mobile".

You just described Taylor Heinicke.

[profisme]

ODU fans on here are acting like McGhee is nothing special and that MSU fans or anyone who could defend the pick actually put him on the list. Barring something bizarre, McGhee will be one of a very few (if any) players who is a Walter Payton Award Finalist all 4 years of his career.

This post by no means is an endorsement for the selection, simply a statement that he isn't chopped liver like many fans on here seem to believe.

[fatmonarch]

I don't think McGhee is chopped liver by any means. I just believe he is the 2nd or 3rd best QB in FCS. Not THE best.

[profisme]

I don't think McGhee is chopped liver by any means. I just believe he is the 2nd or 3rd best QB in FCS. Not THE best.

Haha, he very well might not be as good as Heinecke, but they are in two very different offenses and have two very different supporting casts. That being said, who knows what either would do with the other's team. The AFCA voted the way they voted and when you are going name a nationwide list, and only have one team, it is hard to really have any "snubs". I actually prefer this kind of list because, unlike in the Big Sky Conference all-league teams, not everyone gets a participation ribbon. I have only watched a couple of ODU's games this year, but I find Heinecke to be extremely impressive and he is leading his team very well. Hopefully we'll get a chance to see Heinecke and McGhee go head-to-head this year ;)

[Saint3333]

This statement is kinda weird. He didn't beat another team/person in football by 28 all by himself.
AE is a great quarterback ,but there are a fair amount of passing Quarterbacks who are better than him. Like Bo Levi or Ricky Santos
AE Strength was his ability to run and throw as a true dual threat quarterback.

I have no problem saying other QB are better passers than AE, but AE was the better QB. You likely weren't paying attention to FCS football back then if you disagree.

[profisme]

I have no problem saying other QB are better passers than AE, but AE was the better QB. You likely weren't paying attention to FCS football back then if you disagree.

Armanti was simply a great quarterback. He had all the intangibles you want for the guy leading the team on the field as well as all the athletic talent in the world despite his size.

[Walkon79]

You can say that about several QB's that are better than him. There are at least 3 QB's that are more deserving than McGhee. FYI, ODU has no designed run played for out Quarterbacks.

It only pisses me off because your defending someone who probably isn't even the best QB in his own conference let alone the entire league.

Well the Big Sky coaches thought otherwise, and I'm sure they know more about DMac than you. Carry on...

[Saint3333]

Trivia Question: What was the last year App didn't have a player on this list?

1983, http://www.playattherock.com/asu-outstanding-players.php

To the smart remark earlier, what's your deal? A streak of 28 straight years with an All-American player broken is pretty big deal.

[ITmonarch10]

ODU fans on here are acting like McGhee is nothing special and that MSU fans or anyone who could defend the pick actually put him on the list. Barring something bizarre, McGhee will be one of a very few (if any) players who is a Walter Payton Award Finalist all 4 years of his career.

This post by no means is an endorsement for the selection, simply a statement that he isn't chopped liver like many fans on here seem to believe.

There are only 3 players per year that are Walter Payton Finalist. Hes was never a finalist, only on the Walter Payton Watch list like almost every other QB I have listed earlier on this thread.

Again taking Heinicke off the list, and you still have several QBs that are just flat out better McGhee. He just didn't deserve the honor.

Every argument to defend him can be applied to 4 QBs above him and they would have the numbers to back it up.

[profisme]

There are only 3 players per year that are Walter Payton Finalist. Hes was never a finalist, only on the Walter Payton Watch list like almost every other QB I have listed earlier on this thread.

Again taking Heinicke off the list, and you still have several QBs that are just flat out better McGhee. He just didn't deserve the honor.

Every argument to defend him can be applied to 4 QBs above him and they would have the numbers to back it up.

Sorry, I should have said nominee, but the point stands.

[ITmonarch10]

Well the Big Sky coaches thought otherwise, and I'm sure they know more about DMac than you. Carry on...

Brad Sorensen has done more with less at SUU than McGhee at Montana St. It truly is looking all 13 coaches conspired to give this guy an honor he didn't deserve.

[AmsterBison]

Voting was done before Zenner passed him so no that had nothing to do with it.

Zach Zenner passed Eric Breitenstein in Week 2 in Total Rushing Yards, Total Offense, and Yards per Game and kept those leads until this last Saturday when NDSU held Zenner to 46 and Breitenstein ripped through New Hampshire for 247.

Right now, Eric Breitenstein has a 1.1 yard lead in Yards Per Game and needs to get 145 or more yards against NDSU to maintain that lead in Yards per Game as well as take the lead in Total Rushing Yards.

[ITmonarch10]

Sorry, I should have said nominee, but the point stands.

No, it doesn't because the All-American team is a yearly honor. Its irrelevant what he does the year before or after.

Hes not the best. Hes 3rd or 4th best.

[Walkon79]

Brad Sorensen has done more with less at SUU than McGhee at Montana St. It truly is looking all 13 coaches conspired to give this guy an honor he didn't deserve.

Conspiracy Theory? Really?

How many SUU and MSU games have you EVER watched? Seriously, I want to know!

[profisme]

Brad Sorensen has done more with less at SUU than McGhee at Montana St. It truly is looking all 13 coaches conspired to give this guy an honor he didn't deserve.

You are obviously high if you believe this. Sorensen is the better pro prospect because of his build and arm, but he is not as good of a quarterback. There is a reason that McGhee is now a two-time Big Sky Offensive Most Outstanding Player.

If you want to just compare numbers which you probably will, the SUU offense passed the ball 57.1% of the time and ran it 42.9% of the time. Only twice all year long did they run the ball more often than they passed it.

MSU passed the ball just 43.4% of the time and rushed the ball 56.6% of the time. In only two games did McGhee pass the ball more than the Bobcats ran the ball.

MSU was 10-1 in the regular season with McGhee at the helm. SUU was 5-6 with Sorensen at the helm. MSU beat SUU in the head-to-head matchup.

Again, you are simply misinformed if you think McGhee is anything but the best QB in the Big Sky Conference.

[Walkon79]

Have fun in FBS, ITMonarch whatever....

I had no reason to dislike anything ODU until you and others started to whine. I need to go back and change all my quarterfinal picks now. I hope GSU runs for 500 yards!

[Walkon79]

Oh and I was also going to say "get used to it" since DMac is only a junior, but you're bolting anyway and I'm sure the CAA is generally saying good riddance to fans like you.

[ITmonarch10]

Have fun in FBS, ITMonarch whatever....

I had no reason to dislike anything ODU until you and others started to whine. I need to go back and change all my quarterfinal picks now. I hope GSU runs for 500 yards!

I just don't like it when people get honors in which they don't deserve. It just something I personally learned long ago.

This isn't some Taylor Heinicke wank. If he doesn't win the Walter Payton I won't be even a little upset over it because I think Maysonet is having a beastly season.

I'm upset at the lack of integrity in the process when their are plenty of QBs in front of McGhee. What Argument can you make McGhee that you can't make for this list of QBs. They do everything he did and better in some circumstances and have the numbers to back it up.


People I have seen
Jamal Jackson of App st
Wynrick Smothers of UCA
Taylor Heinicke of ODU
Matt Brown of Illinois St

People I havent seen
Casey Brockman of Murray St
Derek Carr of UTM
Thomas Wilson of Elon
Jimmy Garoppolo of EIU

If you want to dislike my fan base and I for trying to get a coherent explanation then that is your right. I'm sorry I offended you in anyway ,but I don't feel any Montana st fan justification for McGhee being on this list passing the logic test. Hes the 3rd or 4th Best QB in the league which is great ,but I just don't think he deserves the honor that should reserved for the best.

[DJnva]

DeNarius is not a running quarterback unless he has to. The Cats have very few designed QB running plays, especially near the goal line. Ask those that have watched him and they will tell you what makes him special is his ability to feel the pressure, escape said pressure, and make plays downfield with his arm and his legs. To me being more mobile is just this, making something magical happen when the protection breaks down.

Better rushing numbers and touchdowns at the QB position does not make one "more mobile".

And ODU also has very few designed running plays for Heinicke. McGhee is good. He's great. But the 2 arguments I've heard for him over Heinicke are "his OL sucks" and "he's more mobile". I'll grant you the first, but ask so what? The second? No. At some point, if this cat is better, why don't ANY numbers show it?

But whatever, some outfit called College Sports Madness didn't have Heinicke on any of it's 3 All-America teams.

[Walkon79]

I just don't like it when people get honors in which they don't deserve. It just something I personally learned long ago.

This isn't some Taylor Heinicke wank. If he doesn't win the Walter Payton I won't be even a little upset over it because I think Maysonet is having a beastly season.

I'm upset at the lack of integrity in the process when their are plenty of QBs in front of McGhee. What Argument can you make McGhee that you can't make for this list of QBs. They do everything he did and better in some circumstances and have the numbers to back it up.


People I have seen
Jamal Jackson of App st
Wynrick Smothers of UCA
Taylor Heinicke of ODU
Matt Brown of Illinois St

People I havent seen
Casey Brockman of Murray St
Derek Carr of UTM
Thomas Wilson of Elon
Jimmy Garoppolo of EIU

If you want to dislike my fan base and I for trying to get a coherent explanation then that is your right. I'm sorry I offended you in anyway ,but I don't feel any Montana st fan justification for McGhee being on this list passing the logic test. Hes the 3rd or 4th Best QB in the league which is great ,but I just don't think he deserves the honor that should reserved for the best.

Hey, I appreciate the support and passion you bring to the argument for your guy. Haven't seen him play but the numbers would suggest that he is an exceptional young quarterback. What I don't appreciate is that you have to bash OUR GUY in EVERY post to try to support your argument. You have seen DeNarius, what, once, on a computer screen? I've seen him in every game since he was a freshman and most of them live. He is the all-time leader in wins, touchdown passes, completion % and will be in all purpose yards and passing yards when he is done. He's thrown at least one touchdown pass in all but one of his 37 starts.

He's the best I've ever seen at this postion at Montana State, so I hope you understand that trashing him is not taken lightly out here.

Have a good day.

[MTfan4life]

You are obviously high if you believe this. Sorensen is the better pro prospect because of his build and arm, but he is not as good of a quarterback. There is a reason that McGhee is now a two-time Big Sky Offensive Most Outstanding Player.

If you want to just compare numbers which you probably will, the SUU offense passed the ball 57.1% of the time and ran it 42.9% of the time. Only twice all year long did they run the ball more often than they passed it.

MSU passed the ball just 43.4% of the time and rushed the ball 56.6% of the time. In only two games did McGhee pass the ball more than the Bobcats ran the ball.

MSU was 10-1 in the regular season with McGhee at the helm. SUU was 5-6 with Sorensen at the helm. MSU beat SUU in the head-to-head matchup.

Again, you are simply misinformed if you think McGhee is anything but the best QB in the Big Sky Conference.

This is definitely not the argument to go with. Just because McGhee plays on a team with one of the two best supporting casts in the Big Sky, that makes him better? Just because your team beats someone, that doesn't mean you have a better quarterback than the other team. I actually have seen both quarterbacks play many times and I've been talking up MSU this season, so don't think I'm just saying this because of my fanhood. If Brad Sorensen had played for Eastern Washington this season instead of Southern Utah, we'd be talking about EWU's strong chances at having two Walter Payton winners in a row. Sorensen lost almost his entire offensive supporting cast to graduation last season and he still led his team to a strong season with a near upset of MSU and two big wins over EWU and NAU. Say what you want, Sorensen is easily one of the most underrated players this season.

[profisme]

This is definitely not the argument to go with. Just because McGhee plays on a team with one of the two best supporting casts in the Big Sky, that makes him better? Just because your team beats someone, that doesn't mean you have a better quarterback than the other team. I actually have seen both quarterbacks play many times and I've been talking up MSU this season, so don't think I'm just saying this because of my fanhood. If Brad Sorensen had played for Eastern Washington this season instead of Southern Utah, we'd be talking about EWU's strong chances at having two Walter Payton winners in a row. Sorensen lost almost his entire offensive supporting cast to graduation last season and he still led his team to a strong season with a near upset of MSU and two big wins over EWU and NAU. Say what you want, Sorensen is easily one of the most underrated players this season.

You can say what you want, but McGhee is the best LEADER I have ever seen on the football field for the Bobcats, and that includes Lulay. Sorensen doesn't seem to have that overriding determination to win.

[Walkon79]

Just as I don't like anybody bashing DeNarius to make a point, I have to agree with MTfan. If you're looking for a pure passer with the skills to take it to the next level. Sorenson fits that bill.

I also agree that D's intangibles and leadership set him apart from most QB's at this level.

[ODUMonarch1]

Ehh....

[fatmonarch]

Watched McGhee last night. That was rough. I'm guessing we are chalking this up as a bad, out of character game. The most leadership I saw from him was when he took the blame for the loss in the post game presser.

[FCS/NFL talent]

And Mike Catapano from Princeton wasn't on the list? Strange.

[Houndawg]

DE Ken Boatright, SIU, was a walk on from an NAIA program - where he played Safety.

[smallcollegefbfan]

And Mike Catapano from Princeton wasn't on the list? Strange.

I would put Mike on a 2nd team. He was dominant this year and had a great year but I think the attention Reid attracts helps Catapano because players and coaches fear him more but Catapano is good. I don't think he will get drafted because there are rumors of him being a juicer possibly and they characterize him as a meathead but NFL scouts have liked his play.

[smallcollegefbfan]

DE Ken Boatright, SIU, was a walk on from an NAIA program - where he played Safety.

And that is very impressive. I would not put him on my first-team but he certainly belongs on a list.

[Blue Eagle]

This has to be a joke because that is exactly what it is.......

[woffordgrad94]

Since there was no Eric Breitenstein on this list, I printed a copy of it and used it as toilet paper. And even by doing that I gave it more respect than it really deserves, because it isn't worth a crap.

[word]

Watched McGhee last night. That was rough. I'm guessing we are chalking this up as a bad, out of character game. The most leadership I saw from him was when he took the blame for the loss in the post game presser.

If your going to use 1 game to judge somebody, then I watched Taylor today and you could chalk that up to one bad out of character game. I honestly thought he played well, but I'm gonna agree with the woffard guy. If Breitenstein isn't on the list it is invalid. That guy is a beast...bar none. It took 4 to take him down.

[UNH72Plus]

If your going to use 1 game to judge somebody, then I watched Taylor today and you could chalk that up to one bad out of character game. I honestly thought he played well, but I'm gonna agree with the woffard guy. If Breitenstein isn't on the list it is invalid. That guy is a beast...bar none. It took 4 to take him down.

A "bad game"? I'd be interested in hearing what you consider a good game. Heinicke completed 70% of of his passes for 421 yards and three TDs and he ran 8 times for 48 yards and another score. The fact that his D couldn't stop GSU has no bearing on his abilties or performance. By contrast McGhee completed 55% of his passes for 220 yards and ran 13 times for 36 yards.