East Carolina to Big East for football, Olympic Sports to ?????

[dgtw]

Tulane will join what's left of the Big East in all sports (proving that you can be crappy in everything, but can get in a conference if you are in a big market) and East Carolina has joined as a football only member.

It was not said where ECU's other sports will go. Would the CAA or Southern be possibilities?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The ODU beat writer says the CAA was approached by ECU for potential membership in all sports but football.

[DJnva]

The ODU beat writer says the CAA was approached by ECU for potential membership in all sports but football.

That should be interesting, because the CAA told ODU no on keeping a few Olympic sports in the CAA after they jumped to CUSA.

[walliver]

Several years ago, ECU was hoping for a football-only invite from the BE and was shopping around for a non-football conference. As far as I know, none of the FCS football conferences had any interest. I doubt much has changed. I know specifically that the SoCon wasn't interested.

[RadioFan]

Atlantic Sun would grab them. It'd get them in NC again.

[whoanellie]

and there are no offerings to App St?

[HailSzczur]

Personally I'm offended that the a team that hasn't had a winning record in C-USA in last 10 years, and has only 5 FBS wins in the last 3 is considered more of an asset than a team that that has made the FCS playoffs 4 off the last 5 years, winning a NC and reaching the Semi's in that time frame. ECU I can deal with, but Tulane? Really? Worst decision the BE has ever made. Now time to sit back and watch how badly we get screwed over

[Apphole]

and there are no offerings to App St?

Trickle down movement (insert diarrhea joke here) takes more than 6 hours.

[MplsBison]

Personally I'm offended that the a team that hasn't had a winning record in C-USA in last 10 years, and has only 5 FBS wins in the last 3 is considered more of an asset than a team that that has made the FCS playoffs 4 off the last 5 years, winning a NC and reaching the Semi's in that time frame. ECU I can deal with, but Tulane? Really? Worst decision the BE has ever made. Now time to sit back and watch how badly we get screwed over

Big East bball is still going to have these programs when it's all said and done: Gtown, Nova, St. John's, Seton Hall, Providence, Temple, Marquette, Memphis. Not terrible.

[MplsBison]

By the way, I love that the membership timeline on the Big East's wikipedia page is already updated with all the correct info. It really makes for an interesting study of the past and future of the conference. Enjoy:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/b82c94d74e7c07bb2b86ee26612fbf48.png

[HailSzczur]

Big East bball is still going to have these programs when it's all said and done: Gtown, Nova, St. John's, Seton Hall, Providence, Temple, Marquette, Memphis. Not terrible.

6 teams that matter are a far cry from what we used to have. For a basketball school it's awful to see the good bball teams leave, or be forced to look around (UConn, L'ville, and Cincy)

[dgtw]

Worst decision the BE has ever made.

That's saying a lot, considering all the bad decisions they've made.

The basketball schools just need to kick the football teams out, add some other non-football schools and get back to why the league was born to begin with.

[HailSzczur]

[QUOTE=MplsBison;1903121]By the way, I love that the membership timeline on the Big East's wikipedia page is already updated with all the correct info. It really makes for an interesting study of the past and future of the conference. Enjoy:

An amazing stat...BE membership is -6 to the ACC and +10 from C-USA

[spdram]

That should be interesting, because the CAA told ODU no on keeping a few Olympic sports in the CAA after they jumped to CUSA.

I'm hearing will be announced in a few days, ECU non-football to the CAA.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm hearing will be announced in a few days, ECU non-football to the CAA.

If this is true.... this has a much bigger impact on the CAA than people here realize right now.

[Go Green]

Worst decision the BE has ever made.

I think the 1989 decision to not extend an invite to Penn State has got that title locked.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/05/sports/ncaabasketball/big-east-pays-the-price-for-not-embracing-football.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[Laker]

I think the 1989 decision to not extend an invite to Penn State has got that title locked.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/05/sports/ncaabasketball/big-east-pays-the-price-for-not-embracing-football.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

No doubt about that. Penn State would not have been a "threat" to the basketball schools but was a name school that would have made the league solid in football. Big mistake.

[DFW HOYA]

No doubt about that. Penn State would not have been a "threat" to the basketball schools but was a name school that would have made the league solid in football. Big mistake.

There was no Big East football in 1982.

Penn State's bid failed in part because of the antipathy it had built up over the years with other Eastern football schools. PSU had little interest in joining for basketball but wanted an eastern all-sports league and the other I-A independents at the time (Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, Temple, Syracuse, BC, and yes, Holy Cross) were less interested.

Had Penn State been in the Big East, PSU would still have taken the B10's call.

By the way, the vote to admit Penn State was 5-3 in favor.

[RichH2]

Back them I was working w Joe Brown.. People forget that PSU was detested by othet footbsll schools in NE. BE would only have been for Bball definitely not a plus. Leaves today's manic money grab as #1 on the stupid list.

[HailSzczur]

Didn't take to long for the rest of the dominoes to start falling.....


ACC presidents and chancellors will participate in a 7 a.m. teleconference Wednesday and then cast votes on the league’s expansion candidates, multiple sources told ACCSports.com, with Louisville the most likely school to receive an invitation.
According to conference bylaws, an individual expansion candidate must receive at least 75 percent of the vote for approval.
Louisville already has indicated publicly and privately that it will accept an ACC invitation if it comes. Cincinnati, Connecticut, Navy and South Florida also have pursued ACC membership and indicated that they would join if invited. UConn and Navy also have received support from multiple ACC presidents, sources said, but only Louisville currently has a realistic chance at the votes required for an official invitation.

http://www.accsports.com/blogs/david-glenn/2012112714123/acc-will-vote-on-expansion-wednesday-morning.php

[DJnva]

If this is true.... this has a much bigger impact on the CAA than people here realize right now.

So, do you really need someone ask you to share your wisdom instead of just throwing out something cryptic?

[DFW HOYA]

Didn't take to long for the rest of the dominoes to start falling.....
[/URL]

What, can't wait until breakfast? Louisville should stall until the Big 12 meets and turn it into a "Price Is Right" showdown.

[lmckay92]

Personally I'm offended that the a team that hasn't had a winning record in C-USA in last 10 years, and has only 5 FBS wins in the last 3 is considered more of an asset than a team that that has made the FCS playoffs 4 off the last 5 years, winning a NC and reaching the Semi's in that time frame. ECU I can deal with, but Tulane? Really? Worst decision the BE has ever made. Now time to sit back and watch how badly we get screwed over

Where would you all have actually played your games though? If Villanova had had the facilities in place when the time was right, Temple probably wouldn't be in the league right now. I agree that Villanova would be more successful in football than Tulane will be in the Big East but that's not how realignment is playing out. And the soccer stadium idea was not going to cut it.

[frozennorth]

louisville will leave the acc in a heartbeat for the big12. bad move imo, go with uconn.

[Evolution Prime]

I really don't know what the Big 12 is doing. I thought that they would be more proactive in trying to get back to 12 teams to get a championship game back in Jerry's World. I thought they would have went after Louisville as soon as Maryland bolted for the B1G. The ACC was either going to replace them with UConn or Louisville. Since adding Louisville would help out West Virginia by seemingly to bridge the gap, they should have made sure the ACC did not get their hands on Louisville and make them go after UConn. Louisville to the Big 12 and UConn to the ACC makes much more since anyways, though nothing with conference realignment maks sense right now.

This makes me wonder if the dominos start falling faster now toward 16 team super conferences. It really is in the B1G and SEC court right now. Them already being at a stable 14 teams means they lead on what happens. Unfortunately I believe all of this will come at the cost of the Big 12's existence. With their shaky history of keeping teams in and the way Texas wants to control that conference, I see them getting picked apart next. I think that if the B1G and SEC are serious on getting to 16 teams, the the B1G goes after Kansas and Kansas St and the SEC goes after Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. So unless the Big 12 gets off their butts, they are the next conference to get picked clean. There is not much to pick from whats left of the Big East.

[superman7515]

But with the conference owning all media rights for those teams for the next 13 years, it will be hard for another conference to pick them up when they can't show them on television or do play by play on the radio or renegotiate a deal with the broadcast partners without having to give big chunks of money to the Big 12 every time.

[WileECoyote06]

I really don't know what the Big 12 is doing. I thought that they would be more proactive in trying to get back to 12 teams to get a championship game back in Jerry's World. I thought they would have went after Louisville as soon as Maryland bolted for the B1G. The ACC was either going to replace them with UConn or Louisville. Since adding Louisville would help out West Virginia by seemingly to bridge the gap, they should have made sure the ACC did not get their hands on Louisville and make them go after UConn. Louisville to the Big 12 and UConn to the ACC makes much more since anyways, though nothing with conference realignment maks sense right now.

This makes me wonder if the dominos start falling faster now toward 16 team super conferences. It really is in the B1G and SEC court right now. Them already being at a stable 14 teams means they lead on what happens. Unfortunately I believe all of this will come at the cost of the Big 12's existence. With their shaky history of keeping teams in and the way Texas wants to control that conference, I see them getting picked apart next. I think that if the B1G and SEC are serious on getting to 16 teams, the the B1G goes after Kansas and Kansas St and the SEC goes after Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. So unless the Big 12 gets off their butts, they are the next conference to get picked clean. There is not much to pick from whats left of the Big East.

Texas and Oklahoma are against the championship game, feeling that the championship game has cost them chances at the BCS championship in the past. The other schools will not take on a school who cannot increase their revenues significantly and like the round-robin play format. The lack of round-robin play is what killed the intense Nebraska-Oklahoma rivalry.
The championship has cost a BCS title game birth twice:

1998 #1 Kansas State was undefeated and lost to Texas A&M
2007 #1 Mizzou lost to Oklahoma; two-loss LSU advanced to the title game after losses by Mizzou, and West Virginia

With the conference members unable to leave due to the television rights agreement, they appear to have stabilized. In other words, if the Big XII wanted Louisville, they probably would have gotten them and Cincinnati when they nabbed West Virginia.

I've always wondered for years, why they didn't make a play on Arkansas back in 1996 when the conference was organized though. *shrug*

[jonmac]

Didn't take to long for the rest of the dominoes to start falling.....



http://www.accsports.com/blogs/david-glenn/2012112714123/acc-will-vote-on-expansion-wednesday-morning.php


Talk around ENC this morning is that this may get the rest of ECU's sports into the BE sooner rather than later. I think they'll hold tight for a bit on any announcement of other sports moving to CAA.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

ACC presidents and chancellors will participate in a 7 a.m. teleconference Wednesday and then cast votes on the league’s expansion candidates, multiple sources told ACCSports.com, with Louisville the most likely school to receive an invitation.
According to conference bylaws, an individual expansion candidate must receive at least 75 percent of the vote for approval.
Louisville already has indicated publicly and privately that it will accept an ACC invitation if it comes. Cincinnati, Connecticut, Navy and South Florida also have pursued ACC membership and indicated that they would join if invited. UConn and Navy also have received support from multiple ACC presidents, sources said, but only Louisville currently has a realistic chance at the votes required for an official invitation.

And people thought me crazy when I said that UConn was well behind Louisville in terms of consideration xlolx

[aceinthehole]

And people thought me crazy when I said that UConn was well behind Louisville in terms of consideration xlolx

No, we mocked you when you said 'Nova was ahead of UConn, period. UConn and Louisvile are both ahead of 'Nova in any discussions regarding ACC memebership.


If the ACC bites the order of preference will be Louisville, followed by Nova, followed by UConn. Trust me.

[bluehenbillk]

Louisville unanimously accepted into the ACC.

The Big East is dead folks.

[aceinthehole]

Louisville unanimously accepted into the ACC.

The Big East is dead folks.

Well this isn't quite the same as the WAC is dead, but this is no longer the Big East, just call it C-USA 2.2

The Big Eats may split - it may not. Would love to hear what the "nova and G-town folks are hearing from their school administrators about this/

If the BE retains football (very likely) - it will remain in the "Group of 5" outside the old BCS. They will just pick up some more C-USA teams and move on.

The biggest loser in all things so far - UCONN

Winners: everyone else.

[Go Green]

There was no Big East football in 1982.

Penn State's bid failed in part because of the antipathy it had built up over the years with other Eastern football schools. PSU had little interest in joining for basketball but wanted an eastern all-sports league and the other I-A independents at the time (Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, Temple, Syracuse, BC, and yes, Holy Cross) were less interested.

Had Penn State been in the Big East, PSU would still have taken the B10's call.

By the way, the vote to admit Penn State was 5-3 in favor.

I understand the reasons why some BE schools voted "no" to Penn State. But surely the decision still qualifies as the worst decision the BE ever made. If not, what would you say gets the nod?

Counter-factual history is always uncertain. And maybe you're correct that Penn State would have eventually gone to the Big 10. But if Penn State was in the BE, it's not hard seeing them develop a great rivalry with Miami (who they already detested at the time) that was on par with a lot of other great conference rivalries. Maybe Miami stays put when the ACC comes calling (Miami was really who the ACC was after at the time). And then who knows?

[DFW HOYA]

Well this isn't quite the same as the WAC is dead, but this is no longer the Big East, just call it C-USA 2.2
The Big Eats may split - it may not. Would love to hear what the "nova and G-town folks are hearing from their school administrators about this/

If the BE retains football (very likely) - it will remain in the "Group of 5" outside the old BCS. They will just pick up some more C-USA teams and move on.

The biggest loser in all things so far - UCONN

Winners: everyone else.

1. Georgetown and Villanova are on board. PC and Seton Hall are on board with clenched teeth but it's not 1975 any more. As discussed before, Georgetown really has nowhere to go as a program to house 29 sports short of the Ivy league and that's not likely. Any other leagues out there looking for Georgetown football? Not really.
2.The group of five is really the group of four, which is why the ACC is scheduling 7:00 am meetigns to fortify the castle. Beware orange-clad longhorns bearing gifts...
3. Biggest loser is West Virginia. They jumped the wrong way--does anyone talk about them anymore?
4. Biggest winner is TCU. From the bottom of the SWC to the WAC, then to CUSA, to MWC, to (briefly) the Big East, then to the Big 12. Remarkable.

[asumike83]

Bretty McMurphy was quoted on the radio as saying that ECU will go to the Big East for all sports once a current member leaves for the ACC. Now that Louisville is out the door, I'd expect an announcement soon that the Pirates are taking all their programs to the BE.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

1. Georgetown and Villanova are on board. PC and Seton Hall are on board with clenched teeth but it's not 1975 any more. As discussed before, Georgetown really has nowhere to go as a program to house 29 sports short of the Ivy league and that's not likely. Any other leagues out there looking for Georgetown football? Not really.
2.The group of five is really the group of four, which is why the ACC is scheduling 7:00 am meetigns to fortify the castle. Beware orange-clad longhorns bearing gifts...
3. Biggest loser is West Virginia. They jumped the wrong way--does anyone talk about them anymore?
4. Biggest winner is TCU. From the bottom of the SWC to the WAC, then to CUSA, to MWC, to (briefly) the Big East, then to the Big 12. Remarkable.

1. There always will be the possibility of Patriot League for the Hoyas in all sports. Consider it an open invite.

2. TCU's rise is remarkable because they went from SWC bottom-feeder to conference-mate of Texas, thanks to the "instability" of that conference. They don't call it Texas Hold'Em for nothing - Texas and TCU are the best poker players in this whole thing, and it shows.

3. The biggest loser in this thing is ECU, bar none, though you can make a case for UMass and ODU, as the entire basis of them jumping to FBS suddenly went to the Big East.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Bretty McMurphy was quoted on the radio as saying that ECU will go to the Big East for all sports once a current member leaves for the ACC. Now that Louisville is out the door, I'd expect an announcement soon that the Pirates are taking all their programs to the BE.

If that's the case, then the whole dynamic changes.

[cbarrier90]

Louisville unanimously accepted into the ACC.

The Big East is dead folks.

It's not dead, it's just C-USA circa 2005.

[aceinthehole]

1. Georgetown and Villanova are on board. PC and Seton Hall are on board with clenched teeth but it's not 1975 any more. As discussed before, Georgetown really has nowhere to go as a program to house 29 sports short of the Ivy league and that's not likely. Any other leagues out there looking for Georgetown football? Not really.
2.The group of five is really the group of four, which is why the ACC is scheduling 7:00 am meetigns to fortify the castle. Beware orange-clad longhorns bearing gifts...
3. Biggest loser is West Virginia. They jumped the wrong way--does anyone talk about them anymore?
4. Biggest winner is TCU. From the bottom of the SWC to the WAC, then to CUSA, to MWC, to (briefly) the Big East, then to the Big 12. Remarkable.

Good to get DFW's insight.

1) Sorry, on board with what? Are you saying G-Town and 'Nova do not support a split? They want to remain linked to USF, UCF, Tulane, etc, for hoops and everthing?

2) The "group of 5" is the BE, C-USA, MW, MAC, and Sun Belt. The ACC is, and will remain, part of the old BCS cartel with SEC, Pac-12, BigTen, Big XII.
3) Even WVU didn't lose out as bad as UConn.

[DFW HOYA]

1. There always will be the possibility of Patriot League for the Hoyas in all sports. Consider it an open invite.

The Patriot League is about as practical for Georgetown as if Lehigh returned to the Middle Atlantic Conference.

The PL leadership sells a conference with no national visibility, no revenue potential, a competitive horse-collar with the AI, and a run of recent additions that adds very little to the league (AU, Loyola, BU). It's not positioned for expansion inasmuch as the schools that go there are either beaten down in their old conference (American) or deemphasizing athletics altogether (BU). As we've learned in football, there has not been a line of schools willing to embrace that model.


Good to get DFW's insight.
1) Sorry, on board with what? Are you saying G-Town and 'Nova do not support a split? They want to remain linked to USF, UCF, Tulane, etc, for hoops and everthing?

2) The "group of 5" is the BE, C-USA, MW, MAC, and Sun Belt. The ACC is, and will remain, part of the old BCS cartel with SEC, Pac-12, BigTen, Big XII.
3) Even WVU didn't lose out as bad as UConn.

1. Correct. A national TV package with Memphis and the Florida schools is worth more than some sort of Providence-St. Bonaventure game on NESN.

2. The BCS folks have written the ACC off, only ESPN is keeping them in the conversation. The ACC can't even fill their bowl allotments. Wait for the spin after the empty seats at this week's ACC championship game.

3. UConn could get invited in the future. WVU is marooned on an island.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The "group of 5" is the BE, C-USA, MW, MAC, and Sun Belt. The ACC is, and will remain, part of the old BCS cartel with SEC, Pac-12, BigTen, Big XII.

Wake me up when the ACC gets invited to the plus-one playoff. Until then, they're just wannabes.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Patriot League is about as practical for Georgetown as if Lehigh returned to the Middle Atlantic Conference.

The PL leadership sells a conference with no national visibility, no revenue potential, a competitive horse-collar with the AI, and a run of recent additions that adds very little to the league (AU, Loyola, BU). It's not positioned for expansion inasmuch as the schools that go there are either beaten down in their old conference (American) or deemphasizing athletics altogether (BU). As we've learned in football, there has not been a line of schools willing to embrace that model.

I won't dispute the AI, and I won't pretend that the Patriot League is the Big 10 or even the Atlantic 10, but BU is hardly de-emphasizing athletics. As a matter of fact, BU's movement to the PL pretty much blows away the "there has not been a line of schools willing to embrace that model" argument out of the water. BU could have easily stayed in America East, dictating terms, but chose to go to the PL.

BU "beaten down in their own conference", after winning the commissioner's cup countless times? Loyola "beaten down in their own conference" after becoming NCAA national champions in lacrosse? Time to put on a new 45, DFW.

[DFW HOYA]

Check the quote--I said AU was beaten down in the CAA, which they were. It did not refer to Loyola or BU.

[aceinthehole]

1. Correct. A national TV package with Memphis and the Florida schools is worth more than some sort of Providence-St. Bonaventure game on NESN.

This makes some sense to me. Keeping the Catholic hoop schools tied to UConn, Cincy, Temple, Memphis, Houston, and even the Florida schools is a no brainer. Those schools offer National level basketball competition and much needed eyeballs for a TV contract.

But what are you guys doing about the mess that will require games with Tulane, SMU, and likely ECU? What will the full-sport Big East look like when this shakes out?

[DFW HOYA]

This makes some sense to me. Keeping the Catholic hoop schools tied to UConn, Cincy, Temple, Memphis, Houston, and even the Florida schools is a no brainer. Those schools offer National level basketball competition and much needed eyeballs for a TV contract.

But what are you guys doing about the mess that will require games with Tulane, SMU, and likely ECU? What will the full-sport Big East look like when this shakes out?

There's a chart at http://www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/bball.htm

[WileECoyote06]

Wake me up when the ACC gets invited to the plus-one playoff. Until then, they're just wannabes.

Lol. . . uh huh. We'll see. John Swofford got caught off guard with the Maryland thing, but he's pretty darn savvy.

[DJnva]

3. The biggest loser in this thing is ECU, bar none, though you can make a case for UMass and ODU, as the entire basis of them jumping to FBS suddenly went to the Big East.

The entire basis for ODU's move to FBS was ECU? Entire? They had no other reason to want to jump except ECU? To get one football game a year against a school a few hours away? That's why they decided to spend millions of dollars? Even though whatever $$$ they make playing ECU (AFTER spending millions expanding their stadium, because they sell out now) would be easily offset by the more expensive travel budget?

Just....no.

Was ECU a catalyst? Of course. It's a built in rival--which is why ECU was a proponent of ODU coming into the CUSA and one of the reasons ODU thought it could jump ahead of schedule. But to say it was the sole reason is hyperbole of the highest order.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The entire basis for ODU's move to FBS was ECU? Entire? They had no other reason to want to jump except ECU? To get one football game a year against a school a few hours away? That's why they decided to spend millions of dollars?

No. Was ECU a catalyst? Of course. It's a built in rival--which is why ECU was a proponent of ODU coming into the CUSA. But to say it was the sole reason is hyperbole of the highest order.

Please say hello to your new "rivalries" with UNCC and Marshall. While it wasn't the only reason, it was significant, just as Temple's presence in the MAC made a "rival" with UMass.

Of course, Marshall might be in the Big East by the end of the week. So could Lehigh, for that matter.

[DJnva]

Please say hello to your new "rivalries" with UNCC and Marshall. While it wasn't the only reason, it was significant, just as Temple's presence in the MAC made a "rival" with UMass.

So you admit it wasn't the "entire" reason?

ECU was always going to be the #1 rival, of course. I'm not arguing that.

I'm arguing that the sole reason they jumped was to play ECU in football at home once every other season.

[ccd494]

I won't dispute the AI, and I won't pretend that the Patriot League is the Big 10 or even the Atlantic 10, but BU is hardly de-emphasizing athletics. As a matter of fact, BU's movement to the PL pretty much blows away the "there has not been a line of schools willing to embrace that model" argument out of the water. BU could have easily stayed in America East, dictating terms, but chose to go to the PL.

BU "beaten down in their own conference", after winning the commissioner's cup countless times? Loyola "beaten down in their own conference" after becoming NCAA national champions in lacrosse? Time to put on a new 45, DFW.

BU probably moved up a little as far as their conference situation (and certainly aren't de-emphasizing), but they were aiming to move up a lot. BU didn't shout down AE football and AE hockey (even BC was on board!) to go to the Patriot League. BU had its eyes on a much higher prize.

Leaving the conference was the only bridge the BU athletic administration had left unburned in the America East. If not for BU's selfishness and obstructiveness, America East would be sponsoring both hockey and football today, and have about half the current CAA all sports members in it.

So, good riddance.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So you admit it wasn't the "entire" reason?

ECU was always going to be the #1 rival, of course. I'm not arguing that.

I'm arguing that the sole reason they jumped was to play ECU in football at home once every other season.

The reason ODU went to C-USA was to play FBS football, period. They will do that. It just got a lot more expensive, playing schools with few or no ties to Old Dominion, at stadiums that require fans to take flights to attend.

ECU at least promised a game with a somewhat-accessible stadium from your campus, with a football program that at least you could argue has had some FBS success. Now, your "rivals" are a start-up in UNCC and a school whose glory days were in I-AA in Marshall.

ODU's choice to play FBS football comes at enormous cost. Basketball will suffer mightily. Costs will skyrocket in every sport - even more so, now, with ECU gone. You can't deny ECU's departure really hurts in many ways.

[RadioFan]

. You can't deny ECU's departure really hurts in many ways.


That's the exact reason that CUSA looks less sexy right now for App/GaSo

[ASUMountaineer]

The Patriot League is about as practical for Georgetown as if Lehigh returned to the Middle Atlantic Conference.

The PL leadership sells a conference with no national visibility, no revenue potential, a competitive horse-collar with the AI, and a run of recent additions that adds very little to the league (AU, Loyola, BU). It's not positioned for expansion inasmuch as the schools that go there are either beaten down in their old conference (American) or deemphasizing athletics altogether (BU). As we've learned in football, there has not been a line of schools willing to embrace that model.



1. Correct. A national TV package with Memphis and the Florida schools is worth more than some sort of Providence-St. Bonaventure game on NESN.

2. The BCS folks have written the ACC off, only ESPN is keeping them in the conversation. The ACC can't even fill their bowl allotments. Wait for the spin after the empty seats at this week's ACC championship game.

3. UConn could get invited in the future. WVU is marooned on an island.

I think I read somewhere that some tickets to the ACC Championship game are going for $4.

[ASUMountaineer]

Please say hello to your new "rivalries" with UNCC and Marshall. While it wasn't the only reason, it was significant, just as Temple's presence in the MAC made a "rival" with UMass.

Of course, Marshall might be in the Big East by the end of the week. So could Lehigh, for that matter.

Which schools were ODU's football rivalries before? I say football because that's what this is about.

[danefan]

Saying now that MTSU to CUSA which will leave open a spot in the ASun for App State or GSU.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Which schools were ODU's football rivalries before? I say football because that's what this is about.

In a very short time they had Richmond, William & Mary, and JMU as budding rivals. All within driving distance. And in hoops, there was VCU.

Now, it's UNCC and Marshall. Oh yeah, and UAB.

[MplsBison]

I guess North Carolina thinks the ACC is a pretty good conference:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8683443/north-carolina-athletic-director-email-responds-realignment-rumors


With conference realignment rumors swirling, North Carolina took the unusual step Tuesday of saying it wants to stay in the ACC "for another 60 years at least."

[MplsBison]

Saying now that MTSU to CUSA which will leave open a spot in the ASun for App State or GSU.

Sun Belt?

[MplsBison]

The Patriot League is about as practical for Georgetown as if Lehigh returned to the Middle Atlantic Conference.

The PL leadership sells a conference with no national visibility, no revenue potential, a competitive horse-collar with the AI, and a run of recent additions that adds very little to the league (AU, Loyola, BU). It's not positioned for expansion inasmuch as the schools that go there are either beaten down in their old conference (American) or deemphasizing athletics altogether (BU). As we've learned in football, there has not been a line of schools willing to embrace that model.



1. Correct. A national TV package with Memphis and the Florida schools is worth more than some sort of Providence-St. Bonaventure game on NESN.

2. The BCS folks have written the ACC off, only ESPN is keeping them in the conversation. The ACC can't even fill their bowl allotments. Wait for the spin after the empty seats at this week's ACC championship game.

3. UConn could get invited in the future. WVU is marooned on an island.

- Yep, so long as the AI is in place, there can be no Gtown or Nova men's hoops in the Patriot League. It's that simple. Once and if that boulder in the middle of the round can be on the table, then maybe they could talk. But you also bring up the correct and obvious point: how do Gtown and Nova men's hoops stay on national TV in the Patriot League? Probably can't happen except out of conference games.

- Like it or not, the ACC's comish is one of the good ole boys. Bloggers and message boards were signalling the death of the ACC not too long ago when the Big XII and the SEC made the new bowl (which along with the Rose bowl was to make up the national semi-final), but Swofford got way out ahead of that squashed it.

With Notre Dame (sorta) and Louisville together with teams like GT, Miami, VT, FSU and Clemson, you can't possibly expect any reasonable person to cast the ACC down with the Big East, CUSA and MWC. It's just not the case.

- West Virginia was very much being talked about in national college football when they were seemingly unstoppable earlier in the season. Their football team is what matters and it's in the best position it could be in.

Yeah maybe UConn could get to the ACC, but there's no way you can say WV is a bigger loser than UConn right now. No possible way.

[MplsBison]

Well this isn't quite the same as the WAC is dead, but this is no longer the Big East, just call it C-USA 2.2

The Big Eats may split - it may not. Would love to hear what the "nova and G-town folks are hearing from their school administrators about this/

If the BE retains football (very likely) - it will remain in the "Group of 5" outside the old BCS. They will just pick up some more C-USA teams and move on.

The biggest loser in all things so far - UCONN

Winners: everyone else.

I almost feel like UConn football has done the least to earn the invite to the ACC. In other words, Louisville and even Cincy "deserve" it more. I know that has nothing to do with it, but UConn to me seems like they were just some I-AA Yankee team in new England, really no different than New Hampshire and Maine, that had a giant free stadium dropped on their heads and then convinced donors to pay for some amazing practice facilities on campus and pay for a real I-A head coach and football budget.

But they never had any of the history in I-A that the other teams had.

Anyway...

[danefan]

Sun Belt?

Yes, sorry.

[aceinthehole]

I almost feel like UConn football has done the least to earn the invite to the ACC. In other words, Louisville and even Cincy "deserve" it more. I know that has nothing to do with it, but UConn to me seems like they were just some I-AA Yankee team in new England, really no different than New Hampshire and Maine, that had a giant free stadium dropped on their heads and then convinced donors to pay for some amazing practice facilities on campus and pay for a real I-A head coach and football budget.

But they never had any of the history in I-A that the other teams had.

Anyway...

I wouldn't use the word "deserve," but yes, your sentiments apperas to be the general perception out there about UConn.

Although, the a portion of the State of Connecticut is in the New York DMA, the primary market for UConn is the "Hartford & New Haven DMA" UConn also lacks the legacy of other football programs, and lets say it has a number of fair-weather fans. It is not a football hotbed and the attendance at the Rent shows.

The Storrs campus is closer to Boston than to NYC. And we know, like Boston and NYC, Connecticut fans follow pro sports over college sports - Yankes, Mets, BoSox, Giants, Jets, Pats, Bruins, Rangers, Islanders, Knicks, Nets, Celtics, Red Bulls, Revolution, etc.

Plus, the other ACC thinking was, UConn and Cincy will be there, if needed in the future. They are not a threat to be poached by the Big XII, like L'ville was.

[dgreco]

CCSU rebrand as Connecticut State and get an invite to the SBelt, then in 5 months move to CUSA, then Big East within the year.

[WH49er]

That's the exact reason that CUSA looks less sexy right now for App/GaSo




And the SunBelt is more appealing? Give me a break. If App were to get a CUSA invite, your fans would care about playing USM, Marshall, ODU, Charlotte, and MTSU.



Would they care about playing Troy, ULL, and ULM? No.

[ChetSteadman]

And the SunBelt is more appealing? Give me a break. If App were to get a CUSA invite, your fans would care about playing USM, Marshall, ODU, Charlotte, and MTSU.



Would they care about playing Troy, ULL, and ULM? No.

Awwww...what's the matter little niner? A little scared that your vaunted conference is about to suck hind tit?

[WH49er]

Awwww...what's the matter little niner? A little scared that your vaunted conference is about to suck hind tit?



Not really it's basketball season. Now go make me a sandwich clown.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I almost feel like UConn football has done the least to earn the invite to the ACC. In other words, Louisville and even Cincy "deserve" it more. I know that has nothing to do with it, but UConn to me seems like they were just some I-AA Yankee team in new England, really no different than New Hampshire and Maine, that had a giant free stadium dropped on their heads and then convinced donors to pay for some amazing practice facilities on campus and pay for a real I-A head coach and football budget.


I wouldn't use the word "deserve," but yes, your sentiments apperas to be the general perception out there about UConn.

It would be the general perception out there about UConn if you got a cement block dropped on your head that knocked all the bits in your memory about Jim Calhoun, their NCAA Tournament championships, and to a lesser extent Geno Auriemma's empire in women's basketball.

[RadioFan]

I hear pretty heavy talk about FAU to CUSA



Travelling in the CUSA to FIU and FAU would kinda suck.

[dgreco]

^growing up in New England UMass, UConn, URI were all on the same level with UVM, UNH, and UMaine just below. Academically, it was a little different where it was UConn and UVM then the rest, but perception wise, UConn both athletically and academically was never a clear power in the region.

[SpiritCymbal]

I hear pretty heavy talk about FAU to CUSA



Travelling in the CUSA to FIU and FAU would kinda suck.

SBC would probably end up being a better "fit" for GSU/ASU. But no doubt the money and coverage would be better in CUSA.

[The Moody1]

And the SunBelt is more appealing? Give me a break. If App were to get a CUSA invite, your fans would care about playing USM, Marshall, ODU, Charlotte, and MTSU.



Would they care about playing Troy, ULL, and ULM? No.

This fan would rather join the Sun Belt. IMO - After all is said and done there won't be much difference between the two conferences.

[RadioFan]

This fan would rather join the Sun Belt. IMO - After all is said and done there won't be much difference between the two conferences.



CUSA has the TV money currently. That might change since they lost New Orleans and Greenville. The money gap will probably close between the CUSA and SunBelt in the near future.

Plus less travel of the Belt and it looks a little sexier.

[RadioFan]

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
Middle Tennessee & Florida Atlantic leaving Sun Belt for Conference USA

[SpiritCymbal]

Agreed. As it stands right now, CUSA has a definitely $$ advantage over the SBC, but once TV contracts are redone after all the shifting, the gap between the two will be closer (CUSA will probably still be more).

IMO, all signs point towards SBC being a better fit for ASU and GSU.

[SpiritCymbal]

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
Middle Tennessee & Florida Atlantic leaving Sun Belt for Conference USA

Hmmmmm.....2 openings in the SBC.........2 teams in waiting from that area........hmmmm.......

[GATA_Eagles]

Oh sweet baby Jesus time to play the waiting game

[Apphole]

And the SunBelt is more appealing? Give me a break. If App were to get a CUSA invite, your fans would care about playing USM, Marshall, ODU, Charlotte, and MTSU.



Would they care about playing Troy, ULL, and ULM? No.

What the hell do you even know about what our fans want?

You would be hard pressed to find an App message board poster on this or any other site that would prefer CUSA over the Sunbelt as of 11/27/2012.

[ChetSteadman]

Not really it's basketball season. Now go make me a sandwich clown.

It's always basketball season in Charlotte, you've never played football.

[aceinthehole]

It would be the general perception out there about UConn if you got a cement block dropped on your head that knocked all the bits in your memory about Jim Calhoun, their NCAA Tournament championships, and to a lesser extent Geno Auriemma's empire in women's basketball.

But why are talking hoops, while the conference realignment is about football. No doubt that UConn is a basketball powerhouse (for now), but selling 1,500 tickets to the Fiesta Bowl is not what the BCS conferences are looking for.

UConn rise overall is pretty impressive, but they still lack the football "culture" and support to make them a hot ticket for a conference invite at this time. That being said, they do move to the top of the "best of the rest" field for future ACC expansion.

[aceinthehole]

^growing up in New England UMass, UConn, URI were all on the same level with UVM, UNH, and UMaine just below. Academically, it was a little different where it was UConn and UVM then the rest, but perception wise, UConn both athletically and academically was never a clear power in the region.

Right. In the old "Yankee Conference" the more successfull athletic programs were the 3 Southern New England schools that had larger pouplations (UMass, UConn, and URI). The Northern, more rural schools (UVM, New Hampshire, and Maine) had less resources and were genrally the underdogs.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

But why are talking hoops, while the conference realignment is about football. No doubt that UConn is a basketball powerhouse (for now), but selling 1,500 tickets to the Fiesta Bowl is not what the BCS conferences are looking for.

UConn rise overall is pretty impressive, but they still lack the football "culture" and support to make them a hot ticket for a conference invite at this time. That being said, they do move to the top of the "best of the rest" field for future ACC expansion.

Not while BC is still there, they're not. Which was my original point.

Incidentally, BC didn't stand in the way of Louisville coming. Which I said originally. Just sayin'.

[DJnva]

ODU's choice to play FBS football comes at enormous cost. Basketball will suffer mightily. Costs will skyrocket in every sport - even more so, now, with ECU gone. You can't deny ECU's departure really hurts in many ways.

Dude, for the 10th time, I never said it didn't. I simply took issue with your phrasing that ECU was the entire reason we jumped.

Also, not sure that basketball will suffer as mightily as you think. The CAA already lost VCU, GMU is there but might jump to A-10. CUSA isn't great, but the new CAA wasn't all that strong in hoops. Hell, the conference tourney this year will feature 6 teams.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Also, not sure that basketball will suffer as mightily as you think. The CAA already lost VCU, GMU is there but might jump to A-10. CUSA isn't great the new CAA wasn't all that strong in hoops.

Fair point, I agree. The CAA losing VCU was a giant loss for the conference in a multitude of ways.

[DJnva]

And man, I'd love to have App St and Ga Southern in the CUSA, but understand their reasons for preferring the Sun Belt. I'd like that just to see the message board wars when the first Ga Southern versus Ga State game takes place.

[GATA_Eagles]

And man, I'd love to have App St and Ga Southern in the CUSA, but understand their reasons for preferring the Sun Belt. I'd like that just to see the message board wars when the first Ga Southern versus Ga State game takes place.

Surprisingly the Ga State people that troll GSUfans are acting rationally right now and are welcoming the possibility. I'd be down for a game in the Georgia Dome. We have a fan base that travels well and has a strong presence in the Atlanta area.

[Tuscon]

Surprisingly the Ga State people that troll GSUfans are acting rationally right now and are welcoming the possibility. I'd be down for a game in the Georgia Dome. We have a fan base that travels well and has a strong presence in the Atlanta area.

Some of our crazier fans(read: the ones that troll GSUfans) have been a bit grounded as of late.

[Laker]

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
Middle Tennessee & Florida Atlantic leaving Sun Belt for Conference USA

http://hamptonroads.com/2012/11/sources-conference-usa-adds-middle-tennessee-state

I hadn't heard about FAU yet. Won't this open up two spots in the Sun Belt for FCS teams?

[Laker]

CCSU rebrand as Connecticut State and get an invite to the SBelt, then in 5 months move to CUSA, then Big East within the year.

Is there talk of a name change? I saw a Facebook page that wanted Middle Tennessee State to change to the University of Middle Tennessee.

Anyone know why it is Middle Tennessee instead of Central Tennessee? I can't think of any other Middle schools, just middle schools.............

[RadioFan]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8686775/florida-atlantic-owls-middle-tennessee-state-blue-raiders-join-conference-usa-sources


Official: FAU and MTSU to CUSA

[DFW HOYA]

The new CUSA by 2012 avg. attendance:

East
Marshall (24,898)
Southern Miss (23,751)
Old Dominion (20,026)
Alabama-Birmingham (15,271)
Florida Atlantic (13,943)
Florida International (13,634)
Charlotte (0)

West
Texas El-Paso (29,374)
Texas San Antonio (29,226)
Louisiana Tech (25,841)
Tulsa (20,418)
Rice (20,325)
North Texas (18,927)
Middle Tennessee (17,738)

[RadioFan]

The new CUSA by 2012 avg. attendance:



A conference average of 21,060ish is pretty not good.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The new CUSA by 2012 avg. attendance:

East
Marshall (24,898)
Southern Miss (23,751)
Old Dominion (20,026)
Alabama-Birmingham (15,271)
Florida Atlantic (13,943)
Florida International (13,634)
Charlotte (0)

West
Texas El-Paso (29,374)
Texas San Antonio (29,226)
Louisiana Tech (25,841)
Tulsa (20,418)
Rice (20,325)
North Texas (18,927)
Middle Tennessee (17,738)

Do you have Middle Tennessee and UAB switched divisions?

[lmckay92]

Gotta keep in mind that this was a really bad year for CUSA football. Southern Miss and Marshall generally average around 27,000. Also, once ODU expands their stadium they will be right at the top of the conference. Losing ECU's 45,000-50,000 hurts as does losing UCF's ~34,000. However, I expect the new SBC members will see their attendance increase, especially MTSU. CUSA will probably average around 25,000 once this thing starts rolling.

[DJnva]

In a very short time they had Richmond, William & Mary, and JMU as budding rivals. All within driving distance. And in hoops, there was VCU.

Now, it's UNCC and Marshall. Oh yeah, and UAB.

Well, Charlotte and Marshall were going to be rivals whether ECU stayed or not. Yes, it sucks ECU left, but that's one game a year. And frankly, it'll still be an attractive game for both schools so there's no reason they can't play.

And ODU and UAB actually have a history in basketball from their time in the Sun Belt.

[MplsBison]

CCSU rebrand as Connecticut State and get an invite to the SBelt, then in 5 months move to CUSA, then Big East within the year.

I know your comment is tongue-in-cheek, but actually what are the odds of CCSU getting the rebrand to CT St pushed through? Obviously Southern would fight, but would UConn care enough to block it?

Sort've analogous (in my mind) to Missouri, with big UM and then the state system with SWMS getting the rebrand to Mizz St pushed through.

[MplsBison]

It would be the general perception out there about UConn if you got a cement block dropped on your head that knocked all the bits in your memory about Jim Calhoun, their NCAA Tournament championships, and to a lesser extent Geno Auriemma's empire in women's basketball.

Hence why I explicitly said, and we were explicitly discussion, UConn football. Obviously a separate brand from the bball team(s).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

...what are the odds of CCSU getting the rebrand to CT St pushed through? ... Sort've analogous (in my mind) to Missouri...

No further comment needed.

[Waco Kid]

Well, Charlotte and Marshall were going to be rivals whether ECU stayed or not. Yes, it sucks ECU left, but that's one game a year. And frankly, it'll still be an attractive game for both schools so there's no reason they can't play.

And ODU and UAB actually have a history in basketball from their time in the Sun Belt.

Every ECU fan I know hated the idea of playing UNCC (although they were OK with ODU). If/when ASU moves up to FBS we'll have more of a rivalry with ECU than UNCC will. It's already there to a degree with our 2 recent games and history dating back to their SoCon days. UNCC just doesn't excite anyone in North Carolina.

[MplsBison]

CUSA has 14 teams now. I don't think they're adding any I-AA moveups. Sun Belt, on the other hand, is down to 8 teams in: Atlanta, Mobile, SE AL (Troy), NE Louisiana (Monroe), Southern LA (Lafayette), NE Ark (Jonsboro), Western KY (Bowling Green) and San Antonio/Austin (TX St).

The membership timeline hasn't been fully updated yet, but you can just imagine FAU being chopped off the same as MTSU.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/27c7a37ffe22eb7b9dfa738862b5270b.png


They could go after NM St and Idaho while the MWC tries to convince BYU, Boise and San Diego to come home or they could go after potential I-AA moveups (GA Southern, App St, Jax St, others? - Ala St? SC St?)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Karl Benson's secret strategy must be to re-form the WAC...

HE'S GETTING THE BAND BACK TOGETHER!

[ASUMountaineer]

In a very short time they had Richmond, William & Mary, and JMU as budding rivals. All within driving distance. And in hoops, there was VCU.

Now, it's UNCC and Marshall. Oh yeah, and UAB.

Hmm...I did not think they were "rivals," but you did say "budding rivals" so I'm guessing that's like a "sort-of rival." Semantics aside, I think ODU did what they thought (and probably still believe) to be in their best interest. Can't fault them for that--even with your dislike for FCS programs making the jump.

[WH49er]

UNCC just doesn't excite anyone in North Carolina.



Close your eyes and keep telling yourself that. You'll be proven wrong in a few months. Better yet, come to Charlotte/FSU on Dec 22nd and see how many Niner fans "don't care".


Big words from someone in a fanbase that's been putting 700 people in their arena for basketball games.

[jonmac]

Close your eyes and keep telling yourself that. You'll be proven wrong in a few months. Better yet, come to Charlotte/FSU on Dec 22nd and see how many Niner fans "don't care".


Big words from someone in a fanbase that's been putting 700 people in their arena for basketball games.

When did this become a basketball forum? Let's see how long it takes for y'all to have 30K for a football game. Then we'll talk attendance and care for your football program. That's what we talk about here, football.

[ChetSteadman]

When did this become a basketball forum? Let's see how long it takes for y'all to have 30K for a football game. Then we'll talk attendance and care for your football program. That's what we talk about here, football.

The better question is how long until they average 27k for a season.


Give 'em hell!