The Florida Classic... Is it about football or the bands?

[blueballs]

Certainly everybody has heard or read about the tragic death of FAMU Marching 100 drum major Robert Champion after the 2011 Florida Classic between FAMU and BCC that led to the FAMU Marching 100 being suspended for one year by the university administration.

While the death of the young man in the hazing incident is tragic and regrettable, it raises the question of whether this annual game is about football or about the bands.

Attendance at the 2011 Classic at the Florida Citrus Bowl was 60,218 when both bands were present and performed. This past Saturday, with only BCC's band in attendance and performing, attendance dropped to 32,317. The Florida Citrus Sports Assn. closed the upper deck and the stadium was less than half full for the first time since the Classic has been played in Orlando dating back to 1997.

So, the inevitable questions is this: Is this event about the bands or the teams? And is this symptomatic of HBCU football interest and culture in general?

[superman7515]

Or was it because FAMU just fired their coach and was assured of a losing season coming into the game while Bethune-Cookman had already locked up the MEAC Championship, last year FAMU and BCU were 7-3 coming into the game and still alive for playoff contention with nothing guaranteed. This year it was known well in advance that neither team was playing for anything other than the "rivalry" factor with BCU as an overwhelming favorite leading up to the game, so it could also show that attendance is tied directly to the product on the field. If the game means something, they show up, if not, they stay home.

[PantherRob82]

Bands.

[WileECoyote06]

As long as we continue to have around a 60-40 female to male split, I think the major interest will be in the bands.

IMHO black women are just not as into college football as they are into the pros, or basketball.

[ngineer]

The Bands. I know in high school around here, a good 1/3 of the attendance is to see the great high school bands that perform pre-game and halftime. Not unusual. Good marching bands are what help distinguish college from pro football in terms of atmosphere, as well, in providing great music throughout the game with their 'stand songs'. I feel sorry for schools that have to rely upon canned music to create an atmosphere.

[JazzyBulldog05]

This particular classic is heavily band influenced. That's what draws the thousands of casual fans that make up a huge part of this game. Still, 30k+ to attend this classic given the circumstances is not bad IMO

[DFW HOYA]

The Bands. I know in high school around here, a good 1/3 of the attendance is to see the great high school bands that perform pre-game and halftime. Not unusual. Good marching bands are what help distinguish college from pro football in terms of atmosphere, as well, in providing great music throughout the game with their 'stand songs'. I feel sorry for schools that have to rely upon canned music to create an atmosphere.

The PL has only two marching bands, correct?

[lionsrking2]

This is an extreme example, and HBCU's tend to draw more fans who are interested in the "battle of the bands" than the game itself, but it does illustrate the impact marching bands have on the atmosphere of college football around the country ... I think some administrators tend to downplay the importance and fail to allocate resources ... my experience has been that schools with large, robust bands, who put on a good show, tend to draw better even in down years on the field.


Certainly everybody has heard or read about the tragic death of FAMU Marching 100 drum major Robert Champion after the 2011 Florida Classic between FAMU and BCC that led to the FAMU Marching 100 being suspended for one year by the university administration.

While the death of the young man in the hazing incident is tragic and regrettable, it raises the question of whether this annual game is about football or about the bands.

Attendance at the 2011 Classic at the Florida Citrus Bowl was 60,218 when both bands were present and performed. This past Saturday, with only BCC's band in attendance and performing, attendance dropped to 32,317. The Florida Citrus Sports Assn. closed the upper deck and the stadium was less than half full for the first time since the Classic has been played in Orlando dating back to 1997.

So, the inevitable questions is this: Is this event about the bands or the teams? And is this symptomatic of HBCU football interest and culture in general?

[Mr. C]

One thing is for sure, when you are talking about Ivy League schools, it definitely isn't about the bands. Maybe, DFW, it is a good thing only two PL teams have marching bands.

[Mr. C]

I don't go to HBCU games for the bands, but I sure enjoy halftime a lot better when I am at those games. As a musician, I have a lot of respect for what those schools do.

Funny story. Florida A&M brought its band to Boone, N.C. in 1999 for the first round of the playoffs and put on such a rousing performance that the Appalachian State band, a fine unit in its own right, gave the Rattlers a standing ovation. Billy Joe was coaching for FAMU at the time and, as was his custom, did his coaching from the press box. Somehow, Billy Joe got stuck in the press box at halftime and had to watch the FAMU band perform. He turns to myself and several other writers and says "I've never had the chance to here the Florida A&M band perform before. They are pretty good."

[Humble Steward]

Simple answer: The band and teams are equally important to this event. There are many people that are solely interested in just the band. It could be due to their passion for music or simply because they played in the band and this is such an intrical part of the Florida Classic. However, the majority of the fans come to the game to support the football teams. The difference this year was that not only was FAMU's band not performing, their football team was 4-6 coming into this game. This did not sit well with the faithful FAMU alumni. I believe because of these two factors, the attendance in this year's game suffered. I expect that we will see the attendance return back to normal next year.

[Mr. C]

This is an extreme example, and HBCU's tend to draw more fans who are interested in the "battle of the bands" than the game itself, but it does illustrate the impact marching bands have on the atmosphere of college football around the country ... I think some administrators tend to downplay the importance and fail to allocate resources ... my experience has been that schools with large, robust bands, who put on a good show, tend to draw better even in down years on the field.

It would be interesting to compare attendance for teams with strong bands and those who have poor bands, or no bands at all, not just at HBCU schools, but all FCS schools (and even FBS schools).

[Mr. C]

Simple answer: The band and teams are equally important to this event. There are many people that are solely interested in just the band. It could be due to their passion for music or simply because they played in the band and this is such an intrical part of the Florida Classic. However, the majority of the fans come to the game to support the football teams. The difference this year was that not only was FAMU's band not performing, their football team was 4-6 coming into this game. This did not sit well with the faithful FAMU alumni. I believe because of these two factors, the attendance in this year's game suffered. I expect that we will see the attendance return back to normal next year.

I hope so. The Florida Classic has long been one of the flagship games in FCS.

[Franks Tanks]

I've never given a crap about a band. Go to one of those band competitions if that is your thing.

[813Jag]

As long as we continue to have around a 60-40 female to male split, I think the major interest will be in the bands.

IMHO black women are just not as into college football as they are into the pros, or basketball.
I agree, I think you find a mix of people at these games. I know my dad could care less about halftime, I tend to fall in that camp although I do enjoy watching our band.

I'll just say this Bayou Classic attendance is dropping and both bands are there, so I guess more people come for the game than people think.

[Mr. C]

I've never given a crap about a band. Go to one of those band competitions if that is your thing.

Does Lafayette have a marching band? I can't remember from my past Lafayette games.

[Mr. C]

I agree, I think you find a mix of people at these games. I know my dad could care less about halftime, I tend to fall in that camp although I do enjoy watching our band.

I'll just say this Bayou Classic attendance is dropping and both bands are there, so I guess more people come for the game than people think.

I think the bigger problem for the Bayou Classic has been that Grambling and Southern are not playing as good of football as they have in the past. The quality of play hasn't been what it once was in recent years.

[813Jag]

This is an extreme example, and HBCU's tend to draw more fans who are interested in the "battle of the bands" than the game itself, but it does illustrate the impact marching bands have on the atmosphere of college football around the country ... I think some administrators tend to downplay the importance and fail to allocate resources ... my experience has been that schools with large, robust bands, who put on a good show, tend to draw better even in down years on the field.
That's one thing I like about the Bayou Classic, they do a battle of the bands on Friday (which draws a large crowd on it's own) and the football people come for the game.

[813Jag]

I think the bigger problem for the Bayou Classic has been that Grambling and Southern are not playing as good of football as they have in the past. The quality of play hasn't been what it once was in recent years.
I agree, the product on the field (especially Southern) has driven away the casual/bandwagon fans. This year won't help.

[ST_Lawson]

Wait....there are universities with football teams that don't have marching bands?....is that a thing?...I don't understand.

[BluBengal07]

17279

But bands are getting more and more fanfare than football in recent years. however,both groups still gets a lot of support during the game. it's just bands has a stronger image and following outside of the game. *referring more to HBCU bands

[kdinva]

Wait....there are universities with football teams that don't have marching bands?.....

U of Richmond (3300 undergrads) had a band in the '70s, I recall, not now.........yet The Citadel (1900), VMI (1550), Wofford (1450), and Presbyterian (1400 undergrads) have bands.

[Eagle22]

U of Richmond (3300 undergrads) had a band in the '70s, I recall, not now.........yet The Citadel (1900), VMI (1550), Wofford (1450), and Presbyterian (1400 undergrads) have bands.

Wofford does not have a band ... unless you count their P.A. system :D

[superman7515]

Villanova has a surprisingly small band. The last game I was there for, no smack, it looked to be less than 50 students in the band. I don't think they're a marching band since they didn't perform anything at halftime, I guess they're just a pep band that comes to the games.

[DFW HOYA]

It would be interesting to compare attendance for teams with strong bands and those who have poor bands, or no bands at all, not just at HBCU schools, but all FCS schools (and even FBS schools).

OK, let's start this here:

Marching Bands By Conference:

Patriot
Bucknell: None
Colgate: None
Fordham: None
Georgetown: None
Holy Cross: Small marching band, fair
Lafayette: None
Lehigh: Medium sized marching band, good

Ivy
Brown:Small scramble band, poor (most scramble bands are poor and annoying)
Columbia: Small scramble band, poor
Cornell: Large marching band, good for a I-AA school, great for the Ivies
Dartmouth: Small scramble band, fair
Harvard: Small scramble band, fair
Princeton:Small scramble band, poor
Penn: Small scramble band, poor
Yale: Small scramble band, fair

[Walkon79]

Big Sky:

UM - Has a large band and good financial support
MSU - Good band and trying to catch up
The rest- I'm not sure, but I think most are comparable to MSU


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[Big Dawg]

A lot factored in for FAMU fans. Homecoming was the week before the Florida Classic(and homecoming tickets were over $40 a piece) really forcing some people to decide whether to attend homecoming or the Florida Classic. It's expensive traveling in back to back weekends. Also the football team struggled more than many thought they would. And yes...the band did play a factor in it as well. People love bands at the Florida Classic...it's a major part of the atmosphere.

[Sader87]

HC used to have a more of a "scramble/pep" band that also performed at half in the 70's and 80's....I wish they had kept it that way.

[344Johnson]

SDSU has a good band.

[BluBengal07]

funny how the thread turned, but i'm game on talking about bands.

DCI is the best! fell in love with it while in high school. our school was one of the volunteers at the DCI Championship during the summer in San Antonio, TX.

[jim121256]

SoCon: Georgia Southern is pretty good. App State is pretty good. Western Carolina's band is as good as their band is bad. I don't know about the others. In the OVC, Jax State is as good as it gets with corps style bands.

[ST_Lawson]

MVFC:

Illinois State Big Red Marching Machine
Indiana State Marching Sycamores
Missouri State Pride Marching Band
North Dakota State Gold Star Marching Band
Northern Iowa Panther Marching Band
South Dakota, The Sound of USD
South Dakota State, Pride of the Dakotas
Southern Illinois Marching Salukis
Western Illinois Marching Leathernecks
Youngstown State Marching Pride

The link is a bit slow since it's loading a Google Doc, but one of the guys over at LeatherneckNation.com put together a page with links to their websites and some Youtube videos. You can find that here. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AgvPm5omyMIedFJSXzE5bkZxVk8za1VVaFJrdXQ5d VE&gid=30)

As someone who marched 9 years of marching band (HS and college) and 7 years of DCI (Drum and Bugle Corps), it amazes me that there are schools that have football but don't have a marching band. It's too bad some of the schools out east don't have them...if they're good, it can be a lot of fun (for both the participants and the fans) and can really help get the crowd into the game. I know at Western, there are quite a few times where the band is the loudest section of the crowd.

[ngineer]

The PL has only two marching bands, correct?

I think you are correct. Holy Cross and us. The others have pep bands for the stands and playing in front at halftime, but no marching and no real uniforms. Our "Marching 97" have really improved over the past few years and as a student run organization really puts on a very nice show with constant motion during the performance...and of course, creating the "Marching LEHIGH" while going down the field to the strains of "Down the Field".

[Sonic98]

Or was it because FAMU just fired their coach and was assured of a losing season coming into the game while Bethune-Cookman had already locked up the MEAC Championship, last year FAMU and BCU were 7-3 coming into the game and still alive for playoff contention with nothing guaranteed. This year it was known well in advance that neither team was playing for anything other than the "rivalry" factor with BCU as an overwhelming favorite leading up to the game, so it could also show that attendance is tied directly to the product on the field. If the game means something, they show up, if not, they stay home.


This particular classic is heavily band influenced. That's what draws the thousands of casual fans that make up a huge part of this game. Still, 30k+ to attend this classic given the circumstances is not bad IMO


Simple answer: The band and teams are equally important to this event. There are many people that are solely interested in just the band. It could be due to their passion for music or simply because they played in the band and this is such an intrical part of the Florida Classic. However, the majority of the fans come to the game to support the football teams. The difference this year was that not only was FAMU's band not performing, their football team was 4-6 coming into this game. This did not sit well with the faithful FAMU alumni. I believe because of these two factors, the attendance in this year's game suffered. I expect that we will see the attendance return back to normal next year.


It would be interesting to compare attendance for teams with strong bands and those who have poor bands, or no bands at all, not just at HBCU schools, but all FCS schools (and even FBS schools).




It's not just about the bands. Yes, people want to see the bands because it's part of the majority, but the majority come to see one team or the other win the game. FAMU's band didn't come and their team sucks, but 30K is still a nice number. The numbers would have been even better if this game determined who was going to the playoffs. Some people didn't even know FAMU's band wasn't coming, and some probably were turned off by the bad news FAMU has been getting. As for attendance for the schools with good bands and the ones without, I can speak for everyone, but I can speak for the SWAC. Most of the teams with the best attendance have traditionally been the ones who've won the most. The ones with good bands but sorry teams really don't pull a lot of numbers. Alcorn has never been quite as popular as in the McNair days and that's with their band still being pretty good in the late 90s. The same can be said for Grambling when their band was still good, but their team sucked. When Jackson State was winning 2 games a season, attendance was almost cut if half. That's with having what people think is the best band or one of the 2 best bands in the conference. To be perfectly honest, every time Jackson State has a bad game, the attendance at the next game is terrible. Even at the two games this season we expect good attendance no matter how bad the team is, Southern and Homecoming, attendance was kind of pitiful. I think a lot of people, like myself, are not happy with the fact the coach has only beat Tennessee State twice in all his time here.

[Sonic98]

MVFC:

Illinois State Big Red Marching Machine
Indiana State Marching Sycamores
Missouri State Pride Marching Band
North Dakota State Gold Star Marching Band
Northern Iowa Panther Marching Band
South Dakota, The Sound of USD
South Dakota State, Pride of the Dakotas
Southern Illinois Marching Salukis
Western Illinois Marching Leathernecks
Youngstown State Marching Pride

The link is a bit slow since it's loading a Google Doc, but one of the guys over at LeatherneckNation.com put together a page with links to their websites and some Youtube videos. You can find that here. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AgvPm5omyMIedFJSXzE5bkZxVk8za1VVaFJrdXQ5d VE&gid=30)

As someone who marched 9 years of marching band (HS and college) and 7 years of DCI (Drum and Bugle Corps), it amazes me that there are schools that have football but don't have a marching band. It's too bad some of the schools out east don't have them...if they're good, it can be a lot of fun (for both the participants and the fans) and can really help get the crowd into the game. I know at Western, there are quite a few times where the band is the loudest section of the crowd.


You did band and DCI at the same time?

[ST_Lawson]

You did band and DCI at the same time?

Yup.

High school marching band - '92-'95
Western Illinois University Marching Leathernecks - '96-'00

Quad City Knights Drum and Bugle Corps (small Div. III corps) - '94-'95
Dubuque Colts Drum and Bugle Corps - '96-'00

Pretty much, every summer that I marched drum corps, I'd come home the Sunday after DCI Championships, just in time for fall band camp to start on Monday or Tuesday of the next week. The only time I wasn't marching was from the end of football season until late May (drum corps move-in/daily rehearsals) and in amongst that was basketball pep band and drum corps camps. I started marching drum corps the summer between my sophomore and junior years in high school and didn't stop until I aged out the summer before my last year in college marching band.

[Sonic98]

Yup.

High school marching band - '92-'95
Western Illinois University Marching Leathernecks - '96-'00

Quad City Knights Drum and Bugle Corps (small Div. III corps) - '94-'95
Dubuque Colts Drum and Bugle Corps - '96-'00

Pretty much, every summer that I marched drum corps, I'd come home the Sunday after DCI Championships, just in time for fall band camp to start on Monday or Tuesday of the next week. The only time I wasn't marching was from the end of football season until late May (drum corps move-in/daily rehearsals) and in amongst that was basketball pep band and drum corps camps. I started marching drum corps the summer between my sophomore and junior years in high school and didn't stop until I aged out the summer before my last year in college marching band.

So, whats the high age cut off for DCI and other Drum Corp circuits?