"Lehighed"

[CHIP72]

Um, we just did. I have no desire to see NDSU move up any farther. I think the FBS outside of the BCS is a colossal waste of time.

You know, Division I-AA football actually has a fairly close resemblance to non-BCS Division I-A football quality-wise, especially in the higher quality Division I-AA leagues. Ironically, at one time in the past most of the then-members of the Missouri Valley Conference would have been considered Division I-A teams.

The real issues with North Dakota State moving up are 1) there aren't any Division I-A leagues that really make sense for either the league itself or ND State and 2) the league which would make the most sense, the Big Ten (or whatever number of teams that league will have), would make ND State look like a minnow swimming in a sea of sharks.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I can see the thinly veiled attempts to be insulting to my school and my home state and neither is really happening. This has become thread drift of the highest order.

I'm tremendously comfortable and proud to not only be a graduate of NDSU but born and raised in Fargo. I have been out east. In fact, the only time I was in Eastern Pennsylvania, my wallet was stolen and my identity hijacked so good for you!

This thread's original intent was to soften the blow of Lehigh's exclusion from the playoffs. Lehigh was excluded because of a soft schedule, period. The attempts to "kill the messenger" have failed. We love our little rural island in the middle of the country where it gets too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter for other folks.

I remember the folks from Lafayette loving coming out to Fargo and those that made the trip had a great time because we are the nicest people you'll ever meet. Certainly nicer than those I have met out east.

So go ahead and keep up the petty insults, it's playoff time and there are far more interesting discussions going on.

[RichH2]

Well NDSU overbearing attitude sort of explained by their history. Not excused just explained. Since we are not large State schools, unlikely we can ever maintain that level yr to yr. But we can reach that level and should endeavor to do so as best we can. Love to beat them.
We are 31-6 over the last 3 years. We needn't apologize for it. We are not out West with a plethera of FCS state schools to play. We are here with IL, NEC, CAA and SoCon. Lets win our backyard and leave the Bison to roam the range.
Bison fans on the whole are a congenial bunch. We should look forward to playing them on an equal footing. They were welcoming in Fargo last year.

[heath]

I think the WAC,Mid American West or Mountain West would be the next step up for NDSU.FCS is a great place to be,but if so.then why are so many FCS teams begging to get those lower FBS games?You could still schedule a few rivalry games.

[Engineer86]

I think the WAC,Mid American West or Mountain West would be the next step up for NDSU.FCS is a great place to be,but if so.then why are so many FCS teams begging to get those lower FBS games?You could still schedule a few rivalry games.

I agree with Nodak, why would anyone want to play in those leagues.

[Southern Bison]

Try an ODU,MOVE UP.xnodxYou talk the talk but...............................thought so

Didn't you mean you re-tweet the tweet?

I, like many NDSU alumni would be happy to see the Bison head to the east. There are many from the Carolinas that would invade the Yankees if the Bison played close enough. In 2006, GaSo found out who we were with an ***-whoopin' in Statesboro. I say let's do a home & home with someone from the PL, CAA, or Big South.

[Southern Bison]

I can see the thinly veiled attempts to be insulting to my school and my home state and neither is really happening. This has become thread drift of the highest order.

I'm tremendously comfortable and proud to not only be a graduate of NDSU but born and raised in Fargo. I have been out east. In fact, the only time I was in Eastern Pennsylvania, my wallet was stolen and my identity hijacked so good for you!

This thread's original intent was to soften the blow of Lehigh's exclusion from the playoffs. Lehigh was excluded because of a soft schedule, period. The attempts to "kill the messenger" have failed. We love our little rural island in the middle of the country where it gets too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter for other folks.

I remember the folks from Lafayette loving coming out to Fargo and those that made the trip had a great time because we are the nicest people you'll ever meet. Certainly nicer than those I have met out east.

So go ahead and keep up the petty insults, it's playoff time and there are far more interesting discussions going on.

Amen!! The fans at GaSo in '06 were great as well because of a mutual respect of their program's history and ours.

[Neighbor2]

Amen!! The fans at GaSo in '06 were great as well because of a mutual respect of their program's history and ours.

Exactly!

Thank you, Southern Bison.

[RichH2]

Good idea. A H&H would be fun. We may not win yet but we'll give you a great game.

[Engineer86]

Didn't you mean you re-tweet the tweet?

I, like many NDSU alumni would be happy to see the Bison head to the east. There are many from the Carolinas that would invade the Yankees if the Bison played close enough. In 2006, GaSo found out who we were with an ***-whoopin' in Statesboro. I say let's do a home & home with someone from the PL, CAA, or Big South.

This is what Lehigh should sign up for

[Seawolf97]

I would like to see Lehigh on our schedule somewhere down the road. Next year we travel to Colgate but a future home and away would be great. Especially since you guys are adding scholarships now.

[CHIP72]

I can see the thinly veiled attempts to be insulting to my school and my home state and neither is really happening. This has become thread drift of the highest order.

I'm tremendously comfortable and proud to not only be a graduate of NDSU but born and raised in Fargo. I have been out east. In fact, the only time I was in Eastern Pennsylvania, my wallet was stolen and my identity hijacked so good for you!

This thread's original intent was to soften the blow of Lehigh's exclusion from the playoffs. Lehigh was excluded because of a soft schedule, period. The attempts to "kill the messenger" have failed. We love our little rural island in the middle of the country where it gets too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter for other folks.

I remember the folks from Lafayette loving coming out to Fargo and those that made the trip had a great time because we are the nicest people you'll ever meet. Certainly nicer than those I have met out east.

So go ahead and keep up the petty insults, it's playoff time and there are far more interesting discussions going on.

I'm sorry you're so thin-skinned. Honestly, the reality is most Lehigh fans, or more generally most fans of Division I-AA teams in the Northeast, would not have interest in playing at North Dakota State in a regular season game. It's nowhere nearby, it is perceived to be in the middle of nowhere (that's not an insult, that's the actual, perceived reality most people in the Northeast would have), and it wouldn't carry much cache to most fans except those in the know. There are many, many other teams Lehigh fans or more generally fans of Division I-AA teams in the Northeast would rather play that are much closer where they could see their team on the road. That's just the reality.

Incidentally, none of the above is meant to say North Dakota State doesn't have a very fine football program and tradition and that you shouldn't be proud of it. There's nothing wrong with being proud of your home state either; I'd be more critical if you weren't.

[dungeonjoe]

One of the things I have come to appreciate about FCS is the diversity of the schools in the division. HBCUs, small private colleges, larger and smaller state schools, scholarship, non-scholarship, plus other categories you could list. Lehigh is a quality institution as is NDSU. On the football field, each will have their strengths and weaknesses. I think there is room for both in this division and in the playoffs... or at least there should be.

[Southern Bison]

I'm sorry you're so thin-skinned. Honestly, the reality is most Lehigh fans, or more generally most fans of Division I-AA teams in the Northeast, would not have interest in playing at North Dakota State in a regular season game. It's nowhere nearby, it is perceived to be in the middle of nowhere (that's not an insult, that's the actual, perceived reality most people in the Northeast would have), and it wouldn't carry much cache to most fans except those in the know. There are many, many other teams Lehigh fans or more generally fans of Division I-AA teams in the Northeast would rather play that are much closer where they could see their team on the road. That's just the reality.

Incidentally, none of the above is meant to say North Dakota State doesn't have a very fine football program and tradition and that you shouldn't be proud of it. There's nothing wrong with being proud of your home state either; I'd be more critical if you weren't.

Sounds like you may be in the minority amongst Lehigh poster already. First, we'll stop off at Pottsville and load up on some fresh Yuengling for tailgating and then we'll roll onto your lil' yankee hamlet and support our team. There are many Bison fans within 8-10 hours that would make that drive at the drop of a hat.

[RichH2]

Agree wholeheartedly joe. The differences and opportunity to play all differentiate us frim the slimepit of greed that FBS has become. Agroup driven solely by money w/o any thought of the fans, athketes or the consequences of all these switches. It is clear that the power conferences will be separating more and more from the NCAA. $$ games will become a thing of the past and forget about any of us getting into March Madness.
Thank you, I'll stick with FCS.

[RichH2]

Southern, if you're going that way swing by pick up some Brooklyn lager. You might ad well have the best.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Sounds like you may be in the minority amongst Lehigh poster already. First, we'll stop off at Pottsville and load up on some fresh Yuengling for tailgating and then we'll roll onto your lil' yankee hamlet and support our team. There are many Bison fans within 8-10 hours that would make that drive at the drop of a hat.

Agreed, since I've been in Columbus, the farthest east the Bison have come is Terre Haute so I went there last year. They played in Youngstown in 2010 but we had a new baby and couldn't make the trip. I'd love for them to schedule out here somewhere.

[Pard4Life]

Yeah, those Lehigh people are an unsavory bunch. We refer to them as the "taunters" sometimes.

[Sader87]

Holy Cross had one of its greatest athletic moments in North Dakota (albeit at UND) beating Minnesota in a NCAA hockey game a few years back...love to have a home and home in football with the Bison at some point.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Personally, I'm happy to be able to play and beat the "royalty" of FCS. Delaware, Montana, App... bring it on. For the record, had Lehigh gotten another shot at NDSU, this time with Spadola in the lineup, it would have been the most talked-about matchup in the playoffs this time around.

Where I have a problem is when the fans of said schools that come out and go out of their way to make it seem like, somehow, Lehigh doesn't belong in FCS or something, that somehow a 10-1 Lehigh team is going to sully YOUR playoffs... that they don't deserve it... Do I need to drag out all the AGS posts that essentialy have been saying this for the last two weeks?

[RichH2]

Personally, I'm happy to be able to play and beat the "royalty" of FCS. Delaware, Montana, App... bring it on. For the record, had Lehigh gotten another shot at NDSU, this time with Spadola in the lineup, it would have been the most talked-about matchup in the playoffs this time around.

Where I have a problem is when the fans of said schools that come out and go out of their way to make it seem like, somehow, Lehigh doesn't belong in FCS or something, that somehow a 10-1 Lehigh team is going to sully YOUR playoffs... that they don't deserve it... Do I need to drag out all the AGS posts that essentialy have been saying this for the last two weeks?

+1

[ngineer]

Where has everyone seen the JMU game? Lehigh is always slow to release future games it seems

Not seen but discussed at South Side Booster Pep Rally last Thursday night.

[lehidude]

I'd rather them be slow than release the standard "2 Ivy-2 NEC bottom feeder" schedule.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Holy Cross had one of its greatest athletic moments in North Dakota (albeit at UND) beating Minnesota in a NCAA hockey game a few years back...love to have a home and home in football with the Bison at some point.

I was at that game. I really wanted a UND/Minnesota final. They made us buy tickets for the whole weekend so when I went to the Minnesota/HC game all I wanted was for HC to pepper Briggs really badly so he is all shaken for the final. When it went into overtime we were pretty pumped.

When HC scored the winning goal, the entire arena erupted, until we realized the final would likely be HC/UND then we were a little disappointed. Suffice to say HC had about 18,000 fans on that night and about 100 the next night. :)

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Personally, I'm happy to be able to play and beat the "royalty" of FCS. Delaware, Montana, App... bring it on. For the record, had Lehigh gotten another shot at NDSU, this time with Spadola in the lineup, it would have been the most talked-about matchup in the playoffs this time around.

Where I have a problem is when the fans of said schools that come out and go out of their way to make it seem like, somehow, Lehigh doesn't belong in FCS or something, that somehow a 10-1 Lehigh team is going to sully YOUR playoffs... that they don't deserve it... Do I need to drag out all the AGS posts that essentialy have been saying this for the last two weeks?


Do you really think that Lehigh deserved to be in the playoffs this year with the schedule they played?

IMO, get a campaign going with your alums and tell your AD that your FB team needs to schedule much tougher non-conference teams ( CAA, Big Sky, SoCon, MV ), so you conference might not be a 1-team bid with the auto. Make the committee think hard about adding another team from your conference. Looking at Lehigh's schedule, the Bison would consistently go 11-0 with that annually.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Do you really think that Lehigh deserved to be in the playoffs this year with the schedule they played?

Yes, but that ship has sailed.

[PAllen]

I'm sorry you're so thin-skinned. Honestly, the reality is most Lehigh fans, or more generally most fans of Division I-AA teams in the Northeast, would not have interest in playing at North Dakota State in a regular season game. It's nowhere nearby, it is perceived to be in the middle of nowhere (that's not an insult, that's the actual, perceived reality most people in the Northeast would have), and it wouldn't carry much cache to most fans except those in the know. There are many, many other teams Lehigh fans or more generally fans of Division I-AA teams in the Northeast would rather play that are much closer where they could see their team on the road. That's just the reality.

Incidentally, none of the above is meant to say North Dakota State doesn't have a very fine football program and tradition and that you shouldn't be proud of it. There's nothing wrong with being proud of your home state either; I'd be more critical if you weren't.

Dead on Chip. Playing North Dakota State, or Eastern Washington, or West Nobody Knows Where in the playoffs is fine, but there is plenty of good football MUCH closer to home and in targetted recruiting areas. Albany and Stony Brook would be great for a home and home, as would Delaware and Villanova if they'd get their heads out of their rears. I'd love to see Rutgers, Army, Navy and Temple (Although almost guarantee they won't go for even a 3 for 1 deal). I also expect Buffalo, UMass, BC, UConn, Syracuse, and even possibly Pitt and Penn State to start appearing on Patriot League Schedules in the near future. I also believe that most alums are hoping that the Liberty arrangement continues, which should open up consideration for Richmond and JMU if they are interested in a home and home. If that's not enough for those trying to turn FCS into their own little mini-BCS then so be it. Lehigh-Lafayette was around long before I-AA or the FCS playoffs, and will be around long after. After this year, I now see with crystal clarity why the Ivies choose not to participate. Harvard flying across the country to play at Big Sky State on Thanksgiving weekend because they're not in a "power conference" does absolutely nothing for their program. In fact, quite the opposite.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Dead on Chip. Playing North Dakota State, or Eastern Washington, or West Nobody Knows Where in the playoffs is fine, but there is plenty of good football MUCH closer to home and in targetted recruiting areas. Albany and Stony Brook would be great for a home and home, as would Delaware and Villanova if they'd get their heads out of their rears. I'd love to see Rutgers, Army, Navy and Temple (Although almost guarantee they won't go for even a 3 for 1 deal). I also expect Buffalo, UMass, BC, UConn, Syracuse, and even possibly Pitt and Penn State to start appearing on Patriot League Schedules in the near future. I also believe that most alums are hoping that the Liberty arrangement continues, which should open up consideration for Richmond and JMU if they are interested in a home and home. If that's not enough for those trying to turn FCS into their own little mini-BCS then so be it. Lehigh-Lafayette was around long before I-AA or the FCS playoffs, and will be around long after. After this year, I now see with crystal clarity why the Ivies choose not to participate. Harvard flying across the country to play at Big Sky State on Thanksgiving weekend because they're not in a "power conference" does absolutely nothing for their program. In fact, quite the opposite.

So then you all agreed that "Lehighed" is a self inflicted condition and doesn't require a thread of this magnitude? Great.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Be honest. Playing Northern Iowa at Northern Iowa was fun. Playing North Dakota State at North Dakota State was fun, and of every single team in the playoffs this go-around, there was no team I wanted Lehigh to face more than North Dakota State. A close second was Eastern Washington.

Would any of these games have topped Lehigh beating Towson 40-38 last year? Not sure - beating Towson was damned sweet. But let's not pretend that there's no value in competing against NDSU, UNI, or EWU, three of the of most successful programs in FCS in the last decade.

Western Illinois's campus, when Lehigh beat them in the playoffs, is in the middle of nowhere in Macomb, and they play on a field that is tiny and completely lacking in charm. But I loved the fact that Lehigh went there and beat the crap out of them. That was better than simply being sent down to Villanova.

[PAllen]

I hear you LFN, and for playoff experiences, those trips are great. But scheduling a regular season one and done trip to EWU with a guarantee that doesn't cover the travel expenses has no appeal. So Lehigh does that, and wins, but EWU has an average season. It's a money loser, and as far as the "elite conference" folks go, because they lost to a team in the PL, EWU is a "bottom feeder/sub-par/you caught them in a down year". So little to no "street cred" for a money losing trip that does nothing for recruiting and has little or no appeal to the alumni as a whole. If, god forbid EWU has an undefeated season and you lose, well then, it's "See, I told you the PL was weak".

[RichH2]

Cute and I agree an overdone topic but we did not open this box. Woe to he that taps into Lehigh angst over football.xlolx

[Engineer86]

I'd rather them be slow than release the standard "2 Ivy-2 NEC bottom feeder" schedule.

+1

[Doc QB]

To be the best, you must beat the best. If you dont even schedule them, you dont even have a chance to prove your mettle. Times change. Winning in late November against the Leopard will always be meaningful. But, the competitor in you wants to be challenged, doesnt want to settle, is driven by wanting to see how you match up on the field and compete. I think playing schools OOC with that same goal, ones with tournament success, whether it be out West or not, is what would make Lehigh football even more exciting. Play the best. Grow as a program. One day, maybe, beat the best.

[DFW HOYA]

To be the best, you must beat the best. If you dont even schedule them, you dont even have a chance to prove your mettle. Times change. Winning in late November against the Leopard will always be meaningful. But, the competitor in you wants to be challenged, doesnt want to settle, is driven by wanting to see how you match up on the field and compete. I think playing schools OOC with that same goal, ones with tournament success, whether it be out West or not, is what would make Lehigh football even more exciting. Play the best. Grow as a program. One day, maybe, beat the best.

Next you'll be reading, "Lehigh needs to move to a better conference..."

[RichH2]

Snippy aren't we DFW. As we are tied at the hip w LC and BU a very umlikely scenario. The option and the best one zIMO is to improve the PL. That is the path chosen by LU. Not going to bail on it.

[ngineer]

I hear you LFN, and for playoff experiences, those trips are great. But scheduling a regular season one and done trip to EWU with a guarantee that doesn't cover the travel expenses has no appeal. So Lehigh does that, and wins, but EWU has an average season. It's a money loser, and as far as the "elite conference" folks go, because they lost to a team in the PL, EWU is a "bottom feeder/sub-par/you caught them in a down year". So little to no "street cred" for a money losing trip that does nothing for recruiting and has little or no appeal to the alumni as a whole. If, god forbid EWU has an undefeated season and you lose, well then, it's "See, I told you the PL was weak".

That's the difficulty with scheduling. When Liberty was added it was thought they would be percieved as a strong from a national context. Their stumble against Norfolk St. despite the one point loss to Wake Forest hurt the 'credibility' of Lehigh's win. Similarly with CCSU and Princeton...a few years ago CCSU was very competitive, but hit a lull as has Princeton, although the Tigers may now be back on the rise. Next year we get UNH and the following JMU--but what happens if they suddenly hit a 'lull'? You'll get the same naysayers.

[Doc QB]

Next you'll be reading, "Lehigh needs to move to a better conference..."

DFW, not from my lips. I like our home in the Patriot League, hell, I just purchased a home in the heart of PL country in Center Valley. But perception problems remain, soft schedules and traditional rivalries remain, and while those status quo issues may satisfy some fans and alums, I am just merely offering my two cents as to what I would love to see LU aspire to and what will obviously help with a Patriot League perception handicap nationally. Is it off base to want to challenge yourself? Playing a CAA or SoCon team and dropping one Ivy or NEC team is hardly paradigm shift for the PL. Why not extend that to going out West in regular season? I loved getting out to Idaho and gettng on that field in the Kibbie Dome in '93...fast track, indoor game, good crowd, Big Sky team at the height of their successes...then we got smoked. But you know what? This past Saturday at the Hotel Bethlehem when I was reminiscing with my teammates after the LC game, we talked about that beatdown as much as league titles, beating the Pards, etc. The bruises heal, the memories scar. I'll take those scars anyday.

I am sorry G'town will undoubtedly fall behind. I have long thought of them as a sleeping giant given its location and prestige. It just isnt going to happen as a chasm will form with scholarships. But LU was left out this year for soft SOS, and a reality is that playing large numbers of Ivies and NEC squads hurts. Period. Another poster astutely listed LU's OOC schedule over the years, this one didnt match up well comparably, we didnt get it done on the field, and now I voluntarily took call this weekend since I have no LU game to attend as we're all home for the Holidays so to speak.

[ngineer]

DFW, not from my lips. I like our home in the Patriot League, hell, I just purchased a home in the heart of PL country in Center Valley. But perception problems remain, soft schedules and traditional rivalries remain, and while those status quo issues may satisfy some fans and alums, I am just merely offering my two cents as to what I would love to see LU aspire to and what will obviously help with a Patriot League perception handicap nationally. Is it off base to want to challenge yourself? Playing a CAA or SoCon team and dropping one Ivy or NEC team is hardly paradigm shift for the PL. Why not extend that to going out West in regular season? I loved getting out to Idaho and gettng on that field in the Kibbie Dome in '93...fast track, indoor game, good crowd, Big Sky team at the height of their successes...then we got smoked. But you know what? This past Saturday at the Hotel Bethlehem when I was reminiscing with my teammates after the LC game, we talked about that beatdown as much as league titles, beating the Pards, etc. The bruises heal, the memories scar. I'll take those scars anyday.

I am sorry G'town will undoubtedly fall behind. I have long thought of them as a sleeping giant given its location and prestige. It just isnt going to happen as a chasm will form with scholarships. But LU was left out this year for soft SOS, and a reality is that playing large numbers of Ivies and NEC squads hurts. Period. Another poster astutely listed LU's OOC schedule over the years, this one didnt match up well comparably, we didnt get it done on the field, and now I voluntarily took call this weekend since I have no LU game to attend as we're all home for the Holidays so to speak.

That would be great, but not regularly due to cost factors. It's been a long time Lehigh saw the west coast...St. Mary's about 15 years ago, I think. More realistically, foray's into the midwest and south are at least more manageable, ala Liberty this year. It's been awhile since we played a SoCon in regular season--Wofford about 10 years ago.I still think we should have one of the 'traditional Ivy powers with whom we have a long history (Harvard, Yale, Penn, Princeton), but the other 3 games would ideally have a SoCon, CAA and an NEC team. Hey and occasional trip to the MVC or OVC would be good too, but expenses come into play in all of this.

[Engineer86]

Next you'll be reading, "Lehigh needs to move to a better conference..."

Definitely not, just need to improve OOC schedule. Would not mind some good adds to current league, but I doubt many would want to change leagues

[NoDak 4 Ever]

That would be great, but not regularly due to cost factors. It's been a long time Lehigh saw the west coast...St. Mary's about 15 years ago, I think. More realistically, foray's into the midwest and south are at least more manageable, ala Liberty this year. It's been awhile since we played a SoCon in regular season--Wofford about 10 years ago.I still think we should have one of the 'traditional Ivy powers with whom we have a long history (Harvard, Yale, Penn, Princeton), but the other 3 games would ideally have a SoCon, CAA and an NEC team. Hey and occasional trip to the MVC or OVC would be good too, but expenses come into play in all of this.

NDSU paid Prairie View 200k, I think they covered their costs for that amount.

[steelr7]

It may have already been brought up but here goes...
Does anyone think that Lehigh getting shutout by NDSU last playoffs hung in the minds of the selection committee? I know that Lehigh had some close games this season against some 'inferior' competition & the last 'big' opponent Lehigh played was such a bad loss for them.

[Engineer86]

It may have already been brought up but here goes...
Does anyone think that Lehigh getting shutout by NDSU last playoffs hung in the minds of the selection committee? I know that Lehigh had some close games this season against some 'inferior' competition & the last 'big' opponent Lehigh played was such a bad loss for them.

Nope

[asumike83]

It may have already been brought up but here goes...
Does anyone think that Lehigh getting shutout by NDSU last playoffs hung in the minds of the selection committee? I know that Lehigh had some close games this season against some 'inferior' competition & the last 'big' opponent Lehigh played was such a bad loss for them.

I think if last year's results were in the minds of the committee much, a road win over the CAA champ would have more than offset losing by 24 to the eventual national champs without one of their best players. They just didn't think their resume was good enough this season. Tough break for Lehigh but I tend to agree, no quality wins.

[Southern Bison]

I hear you LFN, and for playoff experiences, those trips are great. But scheduling a regular season one and done trip to EWU with a guarantee that doesn't cover the travel expenses has no appeal. So Lehigh does that, and wins, but EWU has an average season. It's a money loser, and as far as the "elite conference" folks go, because they lost to a team in the PL, EWU is a "bottom feeder/sub-par/you caught them in a down year". So little to no "street cred" for a money losing trip that does nothing for recruiting and has little or no appeal to the alumni as a whole. If, god forbid EWU has an undefeated season and you lose, well then, it's "See, I told you the PL was weak".

If you go into Cheney, Bozeman, or Fargo and fly out of there with a win, no one on this board will think that Lehigh is weak and would look for them as an AQ in the playoffs. If you lose against a strong FCS OOC opponent, it will help your "street cred". A close loss over a power team far outweighs a close win over a weak team. That's why there are 3 teams from MVFC, Big Sky, CAA, & SoCon. Even with 2 or 3 losses to FBS or strong FCS teams, they still are the better teams compared to a 1-loss team that had close wins against weak FCS teams.

This failure to make the playoffs falls on your AD for the scheduling of weak teams. Your Yankee attitude of there's nothing good west of I-81 is what will keep Lehigh on the bubble if they're not the PL AQ year after year.

[bisonnation]

Lehighed - verb

1. To play a very soft schedule, win, but not win the conference and bitch about getting left out of the playoffs for some team who actually beat good competition.

See also

STFU about it

I've never positive repped a panther fan but that was pretty funny! +++

[DFW HOYA]

I think people misunderstood the point of the earlier comment. Of course Lehigh doesn't need to move to a new conference to be relevant, but that's the watchword in college sports today.

Ask West Virginia--competing in the Big East no longer good enough? Start playing Iowa State and Texas Tech instead, that's the ticket. Hey Maryland, you're 4-43-1 all time against Big 10 schools. Come on over!

And it's not just big schools. UTSA couldn't stick with the Southland, Old Dominion is suddenly too big for the CAA. Charlotte hasn't played a down in football and suddenly they've got to move, too. Do people look down on Delaware for not having jumped for I-A before? Sadly, there are those that do. We reward school presidents who will lie to their peers and take the first offer out of town; we minimize schools that stand on principle and honor traditional rivalries.

Lehigh did everything it could this year, short of stopping Colgate's Gavin McCarney. (In the last 6-8 weeks, no one has, and Wagner probably won't either.) The question should not be whether the PL is worthy of a playoff bid but whether the Engineers, relative to the at-large field, deserved a bid. They did. But it's becoming more about politics and schools with that are in the "right" leagues that draws NCAA approval, and if you're not in the right conference, the message is, find another one. That might be good for business but it's not good for college football. Sadly, it's more about the former these days than the latter.

[heath]

I think people misunderstood the point of the earlier comment. Of course Lehigh doesn't need to move to a new conference to be relevant, but that's the watchword in college sports today.

Ask West Virginia--competing in the Big East no longer good enough? Start playing Iowa State and Texas instead, that's the ticket. Hey Maryland, you're 4-43-1 all time against Big 10 schools. Come on over!

And it's not just big schools. UTSA couldn't stick with the Southland, Old Dominion is suddenly too big for the CAA. Charlotte hasn't played a down in football and suddenly they've got to move, too. Do people look down on Delaware for not having jumped for I-A before? Sadly, there are those that do. We reward school presidents who will lie to their peers and take the first offer out of town; we minimize schools that stand on principle.

Lehigh did everything it could this year, short of stopping Colgate's Gavin McCarney. (In the last 6-8 weeks, no one has, and Wagner probably won't either.) The question should not be whether the PL is worthy of a playoff bid but whether the Engineers, relative to the at-large field, deserved a bid. They did. But it's becoming more about politics and schools with that are in the "right" leagues that draws NCAA approval, and if you're not in the right conference, the message is, find another one. That's not good for business, and it's not good for college football.

Well said,+1xnodx

[Sader87]

But, but, but.......... we coulda been in the Big East. xrotatehx

[RichH2]

I think people misunderstood the point of the earlier comment. Of course Lehigh doesn't need to move to a new conference to be relevant, but that's the watchword in college sports today.

Ask West Virginia--competing in the Big East no longer good enough? Start playing Iowa State and Texas Tech instead, that's the ticket. Hey Maryland, you're 4-43-1 all time against Big 10 schools. Come on over!

And it's not just big schools. UTSA couldn't stick with the Southland, Old Dominion is suddenly too big for the CAA. Charlotte hasn't played a down in football and suddenly they've got to m+1 Eloquent as usualove, too. Do people look down on Delaware for not having jumped for I-A before? Sadly, there are those that do. We reward school presidents who will lie to their peers and take the first offer out of town; we minimize schools that stand on principle and honor traditional rivalries.

Lehigh did everything it could this year, short of stopping Colgate's Gavin McCarney. (In the last 6-8 weeks, no one has, and Wagner probably won't either.) The question should not be whether the PL is worthy of a playoff bid but whether the Engineers, relative to the at-large field, deserved a bid. They did. But it's becoming more about politics and schools with that are in the "right" leagues that draws NCAA approval, and if you're not in the right conference, the message is, find another one. That might be good for business but it's not good for college football. Sadly, it's more about the former these days than the latter.
+1 Eloquent

[68ndsuBISONfan]

Much like 'woffed,' I think it could make it's way into the vernacular of FCS football very soon...

"My team got f'ing Lehighed! Are you f'ing kidding me?" - ??? fan


Tell ya what. Send Lehigh back to Fargo, and the Bison can show them how the game is played. Seems to me that we did a pretty good job of that last year, and with most of the team back this year, umm, we can probably do it again.

[PAllen]

If you go into Cheney, Bozeman, or Fargo and fly out of there with a win, no one on this board will think that Lehigh is weak and would look for them as an AQ in the playoffs. If you lose against a strong FCS OOC opponent, it will help your "street cred". A close loss over a power team far outweighs a close win over a weak team. That's why there are 3 teams from MVFC, Big Sky, CAA, & SoCon. Even with 2 or 3 losses to FBS or strong FCS teams, they still are the better teams compared to a 1-loss team that had close wins against weak FCS teams.

This failure to make the playoffs falls on your AD for the scheduling of weak teams. Your Yankee attitude of there's nothing good west of I-81 is what will keep Lehigh on the bubble if they're not the PL AQ year after year.

Sorry, been there, done that, it didn't do what you say it will. It's not that there's nothing west of I-81, there's Bucknell, Colgate and Cornell xsmiley_wix. But seriously, it's a money loser and it doesn't buy any credibility with the haters. Honestly, I'm not too worried about it. With a 24 team tournament, it would be a travesty to leave Lehigh out with their record this year. If the extra 3 at large spots end up being taken up by 4th and 5th place teams from self proclaimed "power conferences", then the tournament becomes even more meaningless.

[kalm]

Sorry, been there, done that, it didn't do what you say it will. It's not that there's nothing west of I-81, there's Bucknell, Colgate and Cornell xsmiley_wix. But seriously, it's a money loser and it doesn't buy any credibility with the haters. Honestly, I'm not too worried about it. With a 24 team tournament, it would be a travesty to leave Lehigh out with their record this year. If the extra 3 at large spots end up being taken up by 4th and 5th place teams from self proclaimed "power conferences", then the tournament becomes even more meaningless.

You wanted in...but the tournament is meaningless without you? xbabycryx

[PAllen]

I, for one, don't want to stop playing the Ivies. I don't care if it gives us a better strength of schedule, playoff resume etc. I'd much rather play a Harvard, Dartmouth and/or Brown, who we have nearly a century of history of playing, than play a (fill-in-the-blank) school that has the requisite number of scholarships, comes from a "power FCS" conference etc.

This!

[PAllen]

You wanted in...but the tournament is meaningless without you? xbabycryx

Nope, it's meaningless when it's just a rehashing of what the "power" conferences' regular season schedules should look like if they are so superior to everyone else. Let's see, 5th place team from the MVFC plays the 4th place team from the big sky in the openning round before playing the 3rd place team from the SoCon, before a matchup against the 2nd place team from the CAA, all for a rematch in the final game against the #1 seed 1st place MVFC team they lost to by 30 points earlier in the season for a "national" championship. At that point, why not just exclude everybody else and make it the top 8 teams from the four "power" conferences? You could organize the games into special event games with sponsors and call them bowls. I know, you could call the system the FBCS! That would be awesome and everyone would have to watch. xthumbsupx

[Engineer86]

Nope, it's meaningless when it's just a rehashing of what the "power" conferences' regular season schedules should look like if they are so superior to everyone else. Let's see, 5th place team from the MVFC plays the 4th place team from the big sky in the openning round before playing the 3rd place team from the SoCon, before a matchup against the 2nd place team from the CAA, all for a rematch in the final game against the #1 seed 1st place MVFC team they lost to by 30 points earlier in the season for a "national" championship. At that point, why not just exclude everybody else and make it the top 8 teams from the four "power" conferences? You could organize the games into special event games with sponsors and call them bowls. I know, you could call the system the FBCS! That would be awesome and everyone would have to watch. xthumbsupx

That is essentially what some on this board are advocating.

[PAllen]

I think people misunderstood the point of the earlier comment. Of course Lehigh doesn't need to move to a new conference to be relevant, but that's the watchword in college sports today.

Ask West Virginia--competing in the Big East no longer good enough? Start playing Iowa State and Texas Tech instead, that's the ticket. Hey Maryland, you're 4-43-1 all time against Big 10 schools. Come on over!

And it's not just big schools. UTSA couldn't stick with the Southland, Old Dominion is suddenly too big for the CAA. Charlotte hasn't played a down in football and suddenly they've got to move, too. Do people look down on Delaware for not having jumped for I-A before? Sadly, there are those that do. We reward school presidents who will lie to their peers and take the first offer out of town; we minimize schools that stand on principle and honor traditional rivalries.

Lehigh did everything it could this year, short of stopping Colgate's Gavin McCarney. (In the last 6-8 weeks, no one has, and Wagner probably won't either.) The question should not be whether the PL is worthy of a playoff bid but whether the Engineers, relative to the at-large field, deserved a bid. They did. But it's becoming more about politics and schools with that are in the "right" leagues that draws NCAA approval, and if you're not in the right conference, the message is, find another one. That might be good for business but it's not good for college football. Sadly, it's more about the former these days than the latter.

Here Here!

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I hear you LFN, and for playoff experiences, those trips are great. But scheduling a regular season one and done trip to EWU with a guarantee that doesn't cover the travel expenses has no appeal. So Lehigh does that, and wins, but EWU has an average season. It's a money loser, and as far as the "elite conference" folks go, because they lost to a team in the PL, EWU is a "bottom feeder/sub-par/you caught them in a down year". So little to no "street cred" for a money losing trip that does nothing for recruiting and has little or no appeal to the alumni as a whole. If, god forbid EWU has an undefeated season and you lose, well then, it's "See, I told you the PL was weak".


This thread is funny.

Go to those schools and beat them. Then you would get into the playoffs with a 10-1 record. Lehigh has nothing to 'bitch' about this year. Weak conference and weak OCC schedule....enough said.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

That is essentially what some on this board are advocating.


xzzzzx


Go to Appy State - Ga Southern - Montana State - NDSU - SHSU and beat them.

LOL.....a 10-1 Lehigh team did not deserve to be in the playoffs with that schedule. Lehigh loses to Colgate for the auto-bid...well, there it is. You lost your chance to go right there.

Go play a tougher OCC schedule....win those games....and make it hard for the committee to keep you out. Frankly, IMO, it was pretty easy for the committee to decide if Lehigh deserved a spot or not.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Fans: Go Beat App State, Montana, North Dakota State, Sam Houston State - beat them.

Lehigh folks: We beat Northern Iowa, Towson, Liberty, Villanova over the last five years.

Fans: We didn't mean those four historically successful programs, we meant these four!

This is exactly the same mentality that folks had about the NEC getting an autobid. Somehow, whatever wins they had, no matter who they scheduled, it never would be enough. The truth is there are no scheduling configurations that would satisfy any of these fans.

Lehigh has nothing to prove to anybody.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Fans: Go Beat App State, Montana, North Dakota State, Sam Houston State - beat them.

Lehigh folks: We beat Northern Iowa, Towson, Liberty, Villanova over the last five years.

Fans: We didn't mean those four historically successful programs, we meant these four!

This is exactly the same mentality that folks had about the NEC getting an autobid. Somehow, whatever wins they had, no matter who they scheduled, it never would be enough. The truth is there are no scheduling configurations that would satisfy any of these fans.

Lehigh has nothing to prove to anybody.


LOL....those 4 teams you posted.....How many were playoff games?

Keep playing your weak OCC schedule.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LOL....those 4 teams you posted.....How many were playoff games?

Keep playing your weak OCC schedule.

Lehigh played New Hampshire and Villanova (not to mention Harvard, whom everyone forgets) during the regular season after they beat UNI in the playoffs.

Lehigh played New Hampshire and an 8-3 Liberty squad the year they beat Towson in the playoffs, a team that no other CAA team could touch during the regular season.

Lehigh's weak OOC schedule this year came from Liberty's weaker-than-expected showing nationally.

[RichH2]

Fans: Go Beat App State, Montana, North Dakota State, Sam Houston State - beat them.

Lehigh folks: We beat Northern Iowa, Towson, Liberty, Villanova over the last five years.
Hi
Fans: We didn't mean those four historically successful programs, we meant these four!

This is exactly the same mentality that folks had about the NEC getting an autobid. Somehow, whatever wins they had, no matter who they scheduled, it never would be enough. The truth is there are no scheduling configurations that would satisfy any of these fans.

Lehigh has nothing to prove to anybody.


Exactly why it makes no sense to argue this point. For whatever reason , LU OOC was weak this yr but your point well taken, seems that regardless of schedule PL will keep facing same claims. Love to know what difference it makes when we beat a power team. The point is we beat them.

[CHIP72]

Lehigh played New Hampshire and Villanova (not to mention Harvard, whom everyone forgets) during the regular season after they beat UNI in the playoffs.

Lehigh played New Hampshire and an 8-3 Liberty squad the year they beat Towson in the playoffs, a team that no other CAA team could touch during the regular season.

Lehigh's weak OOC schedule this year came from Liberty's weaker-than-expected showing nationally.

And also not playing one of the CAA heavies.

BTW, good point about people forgetting Harvard. The Crimson have been a very solid I-AA team in recent years. Last year's Harvard team (which mind you Lehigh did not play) IMO would have been competitive with all/most top level I-AA teams.

[PantherRob82]

Exactly why it makes no sense to argue this point. For whatever reason , LU OOC was weak this yr but your point well taken, seems that regardless of schedule PL will keep facing same claims. Love to know what difference it makes when we beat a power team. The point is we beat them.

You lost to your champ. Your champ was USD's only win. This does not look good for the PL. ;)

[NoDak 4 Ever]

You lost to your champ. Your champ was USD's only win. This does not look good for the PL. ;)

This,

that's like Georgia Southern losing to Lamar or NDSU losing to Georgia State. No matter what time of the year, that's not good.

[Neighbor2]

More response from NDSU posters to "kick sand in Lehigh's face" than from fans of other schools. Curious.

[aceinthehole]

Fans: Go Beat App State, Montana, North Dakota State, Sam Houston State - beat them.

Lehigh folks: We beat Northern Iowa, Towson, Liberty, Villanova over the last five years.

Fans: We didn't mean those four historically successful programs, we meant these four!

This is exactly the same mentality that folks had about the NEC getting an autobid. Somehow, whatever wins they had, no matter who they scheduled, it never would be enough. The truth is there are no scheduling configurations that would satisfy any of these fans.

Lehigh has nothing to prove to anybody.

I agree with this 100%. Lehigh and its fans have nothing to explain. Although this kinda makes me smile to see the shoe is now on the other foot. The FCS community disrespected the NEC as less than "real" FCS football for years (and many still do). I do think what this thread shows is the FCS, much like the FBS, has "power conferences" and the others. Patriot League fans are mostly upset because they are lumped in with the MEAC, Ivy, and NEC and not with the "traditional powers" You guys are on the outside looking in, just as us NEC fans have been doing forever.

Anyway ... objectively, this year's LU schedule just wasn't as strong as it needed to be for an at-large. Most of that was out of Lehigh's control. For example, 2 of the NEC's "better" teams in Monmouth and CCSU were utter disappointments and we did not help Lehigh's SOS one bit. Liberty, another usually solid team, came up short this year and was not a true "quality" win. Having 2 Ivy teams is fine, but that doesn't bolter a playoff resume like many PL fans think it should. Lehigh didn't have a CAA team this year, but they usually do, so I don't see this as a big deal.

However, I think it is fair to say that because of the number of deserving “power conference” teams on the bubble and teams like Stony Brook beating the PL champ and getting an FBS win (Army has 85 schollys - anyway you look at it that’s a good win) left Lehigh on the outside this year. I don’t agree with LFN on just about anything, but I respect the Lehigh program and have no doubt this one year is not indicative of the past or future of this program. Lehigh is a PROGRAM to be respected and I look forward to CCSU return trip to Bethlehem next season.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

More response from NDSU posters to "kick sand in Lehigh's face" than from fans of other schools. Curious.

It started being some friendly advice, then we had to defend against the quality of our school.

PantherRob's post on the first page is the most apt.

[PAllen]

xzzzzx


Go to Appy State - Ga Southern - Montana State - NDSU - SHSU and beat them.

LOL.....a 10-1 Lehigh team did not deserve to be in the playoffs with that schedule. Lehigh loses to Colgate for the auto-bid...well, there it is. You lost your chance to go right there.

Go play a tougher OCC schedule....win those games....and make it hard for the committee to keep you out. Frankly, IMO, it was pretty easy for the committee to decide if Lehigh deserved a spot or not.

And how many of those four has NDSU travelled to with no promise of a return?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

And how many of those four has NDSU travelled to with no promise of a return?

When you have juice, you don't have to.

NDSU has had H&H agreements against GSU, Montana State, and SHSU. That was all before the NC, during the transition.

[RichH2]

4ever
Perhaps friendly advice but comes off to me as patronizing. Not your fault but we've been hearing same talk for years and it never changes no matter our schedule or record. OCC this yr not good, we know but our oversensitive responses are to the continued perception that LU and PL are somehow getting a gift w AQ not to mention an at large. Sorry ,if I seemed to be jumping on you.

[Southern Bison]

Lehigh's weak OOC schedule this year came from Liberty's weaker-than-expected showing nationally.

Lemme see if I have this right...This is all Liberty's fault?? Holy ****!! Who's your Dean of Political Science, Obama?

[Lehigh'98]

Its like arguing politics, no matter what is said, no ones mind will be changed. Congrats Lehigh on a fantastic 10-1 season. These don't come along every year and should be celebrated. Unfortunately, this years class, who has 2 W's in the playoffs on the road and one of the greatest 4 yrs in LU's history, are left with a bitter taste in their mouth along with our fanbase.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

4ever
Perhaps friendly advice but comes off to me as patronizing. Not your fault but we've been hearing same talk for years and it never changes no matter our schedule or record. OCC this yr not good, we know but our oversensitive responses are to the continued perception that LU and PL are somehow getting a gift w AQ not to mention an at large. Sorry ,if I seemed to be jumping on you.

Patronizing. The word I've been looking for since mid-afternoon Sunday.