Why MSU #2?

[clawman]

Why is MSU #2 and considered the Big Sky auto bid? The Eagles beat them, shouldn't they be higher ranked?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Why is MSU #2 and considered the Big Sky auto bid? The Eagles beat them, shouldn't they be higher ranked?

Well #2 in the poll because of a better loss. Unless the BSC has some weird rules, EWU should hold the tiebreaker over them for the AQ

[ITmonarch10]

My best guess is losing to Southern Utah is worst than losing to #6 EWU at the time. Actually, all the teams ahead of you in the polls have only lost to ranked teams. I still expect EWU to be seeded ahead of MSU when the playoff brackets are made.

[kalm]

We have a more recent loss. That's the nature of polls. If we win Saturday we still win the autobid if both MSU and NAU win or MSU losses. I think we also get the highest seed out of the conference with a win.

[clawman]

Does it matter that our non conference loss is to a Pac 12 team and we beat WAC team, Idaho? While MSU counts a win vs Drake and another body bag game, Chadron St?
And if you compare losses, we lost AT SUU and beat MSU in Bozeman

[TheRevSFA]

Does it matter that our non conference loss is to a Pac 12 team and we beat WAC team, Idaho? While MSU counts a win vs Drake and another body bag game, Chadron St?
And if you compare losses, we lost AT SUU and beat MSU in Bozeman

It doesn't matter. Polls don't determine who plays in the NC at our level. EWU is playoff bound and probably a seed.

[ITmonarch10]

Does it matter that our non conference loss is to a Pac 12 team and we beat WAC team, Idaho? While MSU counts a win vs Drake and another body bag game, Chadron St?

Beating Idaho doesn't mean much to me. Honestly, they seem like a middle of the pack Big Sky team. Tell them to stop dragging their feet already and rejoin.

[kalm]

Does it matter that our non conference loss is to a Pac 12 team and we beat WAC team, Idaho? While MSU counts a win vs Drake and another body bag game, Chadron St?
And if you compare losses, we lost AT SUU and beat MSU in Bozeman

My thoughts as well. SUU had a shot at the endzone to beat MSU, beat NAU on the road, won at WGS by 10, and lost 4 other contests by something like a combined 20 points. I know it's a cliche but they are literally a few plays away from being a conference champion and/or playoff team.

[MarkyMark]

Why is MSU #2 and considered the Big Sky auto bid? The Eagles beat them, shouldn't they be higher ranked?

I think EWU should get a higher seed than MSU. EWU has same number of D1 wins, an FBS win and beat MSU at their home.

MSU ony had 1 top team on its schedule this year and lost (EWU) at home.

[MTfan4life]

Why is MSU #2 and considered the Big Sky auto bid? The Eagles beat them, shouldn't they be higher ranked?

Being an Eastern Washington fan, you should remember 2010. Montana State beat you during the regular season, but you guys had a #1 ranking in the polls after the last weekend of the regular season. That didn't matter though because the committee doesn't seem to care too much about the polls and gave you guys the 5 seed and MSU the 4. So no need to worry too much about their ranking.

[cpalum]

Why is MSU #2 and considered the Big Sky auto bid? The Eagles beat them, shouldn't they be higher ranked?

because polls dont always reflect the "better" team. EWU is better than MSU in my mind.....

[Walkon79]

Assuming EWU and MSU both win on Saturday, the higher seed and AB come down to the Cal Poly/NAU game. CP wins and MSU gets the AB and a higher seed. NAU wins and EWU gets the AB and a higher seed.

At least that's what I understand as far as the AQ is concerned. (The seed question is just a gues on my part based on past history of the committee). The head to head doesn't mean as much as performances against common opponents, for all of the teams tied at the top.

This is the new funky world of a 13 team BSC.

[Walkon79]

because polls dont always reflect the "better" team. EWU is better than MSU in my mind.....

And the CAts would love to have another shot to change your mind, especially the way we've been playing since that loss, and the nature of the loss in the first place.

[TboneCat]

Assuming EWU and MSU both win on Saturday, the higher seed and AB come down to the Cal Poly/NAU game. CP wins and MSU gets the AB and a higher seed. NAU wins and EWU gets the AB and a higher seed.

At least that's what I understand as far as the AQ is concerned. (The seed question is just a gues on my part based on past history of the committee). The head to head doesn't mean as much as performances against common opponents, for all of the teams tied at the top.

This is the new funky world of a 13 team BSC.

Actually it is the other way around, if NAU wins MSU gets the AB due to the tiebreakers coming down to common conference opponents (SUU) which MSU is the only one of the three to beat.

If CP wins, then EWU gets the AB since it goes down to common conference opponents, Sac St, who beat CP, then it goes back between MSU and EWU which EWU won the head to head.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Why is MSU #2 and considered the Big Sky auto bid? The Eagles beat them, shouldn't they be higher ranked?

No

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[robsnotes4u]

MSU should definitely be rated higher than EWU. MSU is playing better at this time. Without MSU's Cody Kirk, EWU earned a 3 point win. With MSU's Cody Kirk the Cats win by two touchdowns. The defense has to play a different game when he is in the line up, he opens up the game for the MSU offense.

EWU probably gets the autobid, and maybe a 4 or 5 seed. I think the big game this weekend is the NDSU game. The offense of NDSU is sputtering, and if they lose the seeding really changes.

[kalm]

MSU should definitely be rated higher than EWU. MSU is playing better at this time. Without MSU's Cody Kirk, EWU earned a 3 point win. With MSU's Cody Kirk the Cats win by two touchdowns. The defense has to play a different game when he is in the line up, he opens up the game for the MSU offense.

EWU probably gets the autobid, and maybe a 4 or 5 seed. I think the big game this weekend is the NDSU game. The offense of NDSU is sputtering, and if they lose the seeding really changes.

And with pre-season all BSC Jeff Minnerly, Zak Johnson, Cody McCarthy, and 1st team All American Nick Edwards, we win that game by 20. xrolleyesx

If we both win, the only way MSU is seeded ahead of us is if the committee goes strictly off the poles and not the realities of head to head, and strength of schedule.xcoffeex

[CopperCat]

Kalm lest you forget, the MSU defense completely shut down your offense, including Brandon Kauffman who is one of the best receivers in the FCS. MSU is playing better than anyone in the conference right now, and that is why they are getting props. Deal with it.

[kalm]

Kalm lest you forget, the MSU defense completely shut down your offense, including Brandon Kauffman who is one of the best receivers in the FCS. MSU is playing better than anyone in the conference right now, and that is why they are getting props. Deal with it.

Yep...you did. And I'm dealing with it quite nicely...but thanks:D

[Walkon79]

Actually it is the other way around, if NAU wins MSU gets the AB due to the tiebreakers coming down to common conference opponents (SUU) which MSU is the only one of the three to beat.

If CP wins, then EWU gets the AB since it goes down to common conference opponents, Sac St, who beat CP, then it goes back between MSU and EWU which EWU won the head to head.

I stand corrected. GO JACKS!


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[Griz_are_Beta_AF]

because polls dont always reflect the "better" team. EWU is better than MSU in my mind.....

Take out that blocked punt for a TD and I'd be willing to bet we win that game, it killed the team and the crowd. The pick inside our 30 didn't help either. We outplayed them for a majority of the game, we just made the couple mistakes that they didn't make. MSU has been destroying teams lately, and EWU hasn't. We're playing better and I'd be willing to bet if we play again the Cats come out on top.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

EWU and MSU fans are either drunk or extremely medicated.

You guys really have no idea how average your teams are do you..............well you are going to find out in the playoffs real quick.

[dudeitsaid]

Take out that blocked punt for a TD and I'd be willing to bet we win that game

You could very well be right! We definitely got outplayed in some phases of that game. EWU for several years has shown an incredible resiliance in tough situations, and when one, or even two phases of the game aren't going well, in many situations, another phase steps in and makes a momentum changing play. Special teams made a great play that changed the momentum of the game in a big way. And a couple plays later, that Pick 6 really showed that. I hate how close EWU plays, but now the school has been tracking this incredible pattern of wins after being tied or down in the 4th qtr. 11 in the past 3 years. That doesn't mean EWU is "average". It means unlike the UM of this year, they know how to find a way to win. Don't know what Alphagriz is relishing in, but I'll take the wins.

[MSUBobcat]

Take out that blocked punt for a TD and I'd be willing to bet we win that game, it killed the team and the crowd. The pick inside our 30 didn't help either. We outplayed them for a majority of the game, we just made the couple mistakes that they didn't make. MSU has been destroying teams lately, and EWU hasn't. We're playing better and I'd be willing to bet if we play again the Cats come out on top.

The blocked punt was a good play on their part. To me, take away something so easy as not roughing the MF'ING KICKER on 4th and 20 from their own 19, which lead to a TD for the Eagles, and we win the game.

[kalm]

EWU and MSU fans are either drunk or extremely medicated..

Both

[Wallace]

EWU and MSU fans are either drunk or extremely medicated.
You guys really have no idea how average your teams are do you..............well you are going to find out in the playoffs real quick.

Maybe both as seeds.

[clawman]

Kalm lest you forget, the MSU defense completely shut down your offense, including Brandon Kauffman who is one of the best receivers in the FCS. MSU is playing better than anyone in the conference right now, and that is why they are getting props. Deal with it.

Cat fans like to speculate on what coulda... shoulda... been. That was the first full game for Vernon Adams as a college QB. He did start against Weber but alternated playing time with Padron. His growth and development has been nothing short of miraculous. In the CP game he tore them up. Demetirous Bronson is now finally at full strength and is making an impact. Our defensive backfield is healthier now than they have been most of the year.
I would love to see another shot either at our house or yours, so we could shut up the speculators as to how good the Cats could be.
Your got BEAT, get over it!!
Go Eagles, the #2 seed.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Assuming EWU and MSU both win on Saturday, the higher seed and AB come down to the Cal Poly/NAU game. CP wins and MSU gets the AB and a higher seed. NAU wins and EWU gets the AB and a higher seed.

At least that's what I understand as far as the AQ is concerned. (The seed question is just a gues on my part based on past history of the committee). The head to head doesn't mean as much as performances against common opponents, for all of the teams tied at the top.

This is the new funky world of a 13 team BSC.

You've got it the other way around. If CP wins, then EWU gets the AB, if NAU wins, then MSU does (assuming MSU beats the Griz, which certainly isn't a given) due to both NAU and EWU losing to SUU and neither EWU or MSU having played NAU. The head to head does matter, but only if all tied teams played, which regardless of the CP/NAU outcome, won't be the case.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Take out that blocked punt for a TD and I'd be willing to bet we win that game, it killed the team and the crowd. The pick inside our 30 didn't help either. We outplayed them for a majority of the game, we just made the couple mistakes that they didn't make. MSU has been destroying teams lately, and EWU hasn't. We're playing better and I'd be willing to bet if we play again the Cats come out on top.

Because you've played two of the worst defenses in the conference. EWU also destroyed UND by a similar margin (55-17), and conversely MSU struggled with UCD, only beating them by a score. We will likely blow out PSU this week... 108th ranked D in FCS. If EWU and MSU play again, it will be another great game that could go either way.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Kalm lest you forget, the MSU defense completely shut down your offense, including Brandon Kauffman who is one of the best receivers in the FCS. MSU is playing better than anyone in the conference right now, and that is why they are getting props. Deal with it.

Once again, because you've been playing patsies. That will flip flop this weekend when EWU throttles PSU, and MSU struggles with and quite possibly loses to the Griz. Per usual. Deal with it. xthumbsupx

[Griz_are_Beta_AF]

Because you've played two of the worst defenses in the conference. EWU also destroyed UND by a similar margin (55-17), and conversely MSU struggled with UCD, only beating them by a score. We will likely blow out PSU this week... 108th ranked D in FCS. If EWU and MSU play again, it will be another great game that could go either way.

It would be another great game I'm sure, but with Kirk playing I think we'd come out on top. He's been the biggest part of our offense lately. You may have beat UND by a similar margin, but you didn't completely destroy them statistically. We had 16 more first downs than you guys did and over 300 more total yards, as well as giving up almost 150 less total yards. Yeah, a win is a win, but I think we're playing better right now.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

It would be another great game I'm sure, but with Kirk playing I think we'd come out on top. He's been the biggest part of our offense lately. You may have beat UND by a similar margin, but you didn't completely destroy them statistically. We had 16 more first downs than you guys did and over 300 more total yards, as well as giving up almost 150 less total yards. Yeah, a win is a win, but I think we're playing better right now.

Both teams made mistakes in that game. I'll still have no idea what EWU was thinking with the fake FG. Their gameplan on offense seemed to be, chuck it deep, hope for the best and wait for MSU to screw it up. It worked just well enough.

[Red & Black]

Because you've played two of the worst defenses in the conference. EWU also destroyed UND by a similar margin (55-17), and conversely MSU struggled with UCD, only beating them by a score. We will likely blow out PSU this week... 108th ranked D in FCS. If EWU and MSU play again, it will be another great game that could go either way.


This. Any potential rematch would be a great game. Of course, we were hoping for something similar in 2010, and MSU didn't hold up their end of the deal.

[Grizalltheway]

Kalm lest you forget, the MSU defense completely shut down your offense, including Brandon Kauffman who is one of the best receivers in the FCS. MSU is playing better than anyone in the conference right now, and that is why they are getting props. Deal with it.

And you won't be #2 or get a seed after Saturday. Deal w/it.

[Grizalltheway]

This. Any potential rematch would be a great game. Of course, we were hoping for something similar in 2010, and MSU didn't hold up their end of the deal.

Join the club.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

It would be another great game I'm sure, but with Kirk playing I think we'd come out on top. He's been the biggest part of our offense lately. You may have beat UND by a similar margin, but you didn't completely destroy them statistically. We had 16 more first downs than you guys did and over 300 more total yards, as well as giving up almost 150 less total yards. Yeah, a win is a win, but I think we're playing better right now.

If we hadn't taken our foot off the gas late 3rd quarter, I'm sure the numbers would have been quite similar.

[Walkon79]

Because you've played two of the worst defenses in the conference. EWU also destroyed UND by a similar margin (55-17), and conversely MSU struggled with UCD, only beating them by a score. We will likely blow out PSU this week... 108th ranked D in FCS. If EWU and MSU play again, it will be another great game that could go either way.

I agree. Wouldn't it be fun to see is January!!!


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[CopperCat]

Once again, because you've been playing patsies. That will flip flop this weekend when EWU throttles PSU, and MSU struggles with and quite possibly loses to the Griz. Per usual. Deal with it. xthumbsupx

I guess SUU falls into that category too?

[CopperCat]

And you won't be #2 or get a seed after Saturday. Deal w/it.

Care to let the team play the game first?

5-5, 9-1. Enough said.

[CopperCat]

Because you've played two of the worst defenses in the conference. EWU also destroyed UND by a similar margin (55-17), and conversely MSU struggled with UCD, only beating them by a score. We will likely blow out PSU this week... 108th ranked D in FCS. If EWU and MSU play again, it will be another great game that could go either way.

EWU beat UCD by a field goal at home. MSU beat them by a TD on the road. What's your point here? I would also say that EWU "struggled" a bit with UCD. I watched that entire game.

You should blow out PSU.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

EWU beat UCD by a field goal at home. MSU beat them by a TD on the road. What's your point here? I would also say that EWU "struggled" a bit with UCD. I watched that entire game.

You should blow out PSU.

My point is that MSU isn't playing better football, they're just playing much easier opponents as of late. EWU and MSU are pretty even, IMO.

[MSUBobcat]

My point is that MSU isn't playing better football, they're just playing much easier opponents as of late. EWU and MSU are pretty even, IMO.

Agree on EWU & MSU being pretty even, but if you don't think they are playing better football than earlier in the year especially with the D-Line getting healthy, you haven't been paying attention. We beat SUU in Cedar City (not easy) by 7, EWU lost at SUU by 3. We beat UC-D by 3 on the road, EWU won by 3 at home. Beat UND by 45 at home and held them to 180 total yards, EWU won by 38 at home and gave up almost twice the yards. MSU won at Sac St by 3, EWU won at home by 3. MSU stomped PSU by 35 at home, EWU yet to play. Of the 3 games since EWU, MSU destroyed 2 teams (1 EWU plays next, the other the Cats dominated more than EWU) and had a close win against a good team, but the margin was the same for both, with the difference being that we played them on their field and you played them at home.

The Cats were without Kirk against EWU and still could have won that game. I'm not talking about the blocked punt or pick 6. Mistakes and good plays are made throughout any game so I'm not coulda, woulda, shoulda-ing on those points. But roughing the kicker on 4th and 20 with the punter standing almost in his endzone is INEXCUSABLE. That continuation of the drive resulted in an Eagles TD instead of great field position for the Bobcats. Also not sure how normally accurate Perez missed a 32 yd FG in the 4th. xoopsx

[robsnotes4u]

Why MSU #2 is a good question. Living in Fargo and watching the Bison as of late I can tell you they are struggling, the Cats should be a #1 seed. Yes I grew up in the Big Sky Conference as a young kid, and my wife is a Griz. We watch as many BSC football as possible. So the answer is they should be the #1 seed. EWU, maybe a 4 or 5

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Agree on EWU & MSU being pretty even, but if you don't think they are playing better football than earlier in the year especially with the D-Line getting healthy, you haven't been paying attention. We beat SUU in Cedar City (not easy) by 7, EWU lost at SUU by 3. We beat UC-D by 3 on the road, EWU won by 3 at home. Beat UND by 45 at home and held them to 180 total yards, EWU won by 38 at home and gave up almost twice the yards. MSU won at Sac St by 3, EWU won at home by 3. MSU stomped PSU by 35 at home, EWU yet to play. Of the 3 games since EWU, MSU destroyed 2 teams (1 EWU plays next, the other the Cats dominated more than EWU) and had a close win against a good team, but the margin was the same for both, with the difference being that we played them on their field and you played them at home.

The Cats were without Kirk against EWU and still could have won that game. I'm not talking about the blocked punt or pick 6. Mistakes and good plays are made throughout any game so I'm not coulda, woulda, shoulda-ing on those points. But roughing the kicker on 4th and 20 with the punter standing almost in his endzone is INEXCUSABLE. That continuation of the drive resulted in an Eagles TD instead of great field position for the Bobcats. Also not sure how normally accurate Perez missed a 32 yd FG in the 4th. xoopsx

How long did MSU keep their starters in against UND? Because EWU pulled theirs with about 4 minutes or so left in the 3rd. Also, MSU needed 4 Sac Turnovers to win by 3... we were -1 in turnovers and won by 3. EWU also put a beating on CP and out rushed them.... first team all year to out rush them. Plus, it's not like we didn't have a good handful of starters out for the MSU game as well. Regardless, owning the head to head, the same number of DI wins one of which is against an "FBS" team, and having played a much tougher schedule, means that EWU will get a higher seed, and that's all that matters to me.

[MSUBobcat]

How long did MSU keep their starters in against UND? Because EWU pulled theirs with about 4 minutes or so left in the 3rd. Also, MSU needed 4 Sac Turnovers to win by 3... we were -1 in turnovers and won by 3. EWU also put a beating on CP and out rushed them.... first team all year to out rush them. Plus, it's not like we didn't have a good handful of starters out for the MSU game as well. Regardless, owning the head to head, the same number of DI wins one of which is against an "FBS" team, and having played a much tougher schedule, means that EWU will get a higher seed, and that's all that matters to me.

1. As I was in ND for work, I could only listen to the 1st half of the UND game on the radio, so no idea when the starters came out.
2. So winning the turnover battle, which was a big problem for us to start the year, isn't playing better?
3. You missed, or ignored, what I said about roughing the kicker when you are going to get the ball in good field position anyway is a stupid and easily preventable mistake and it led to an EWU TD instead of great field position.
4. I'm glad you put FBS in " ", because Idaho is FBS in name only and as we'll likely see in a few years, the top BSC teams will handle easily.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

1. As I was in ND for work, I could only listen to the 1st half of the UND game on the radio, so no idea when the starters came out.
2. So winning the turnover battle, which was a big problem for us to start the year, isn't playing better?
3. You missed, or ignored, what I said about roughing the kicker when you are going to get the ball in good field position anyway is a stupid and easily preventable mistake and it led to an EWU TD instead of great field position.
4. I'm glad you put FBS in " ", because Idaho is FBS in name only and as we'll likely see in a few years, the top BSC teams will handle easily.

2. Winning the turnover battle by +4 and only winning by 3 isn't playing better. If the turnover margin had been even, MSU would have likely been blown out.
3. So is going for it on 4th and a couple with a retarded "trick" play formation instead of taking an easy 3.
4. Regardless of how bad Idaho is, they're still better than Drake and Chadron State.

[kalm]

How long did MSU keep their starters in against UND? Because EWU pulled theirs with about 4 minutes or so left in the 3rd. Also, MSU needed 4 Sac Turnovers to win by 3... we were -1 in turnovers and won by 3. EWU also put a beating on CP and out rushed them.... first team all year to out rush them. Plus, it's not like we didn't have a good handful of starters out for the MSU game as well. Regardless, owning the head to head, the same number of DI wins one of which is against an "FBS" team, and having played a much tougher schedule, means that EWU will get a higher seed, and that's all that matters to me.

If you look at Danefan's thread on the GPI, it's clear the committee highly regards strength of schedule and FBS wins.

The Cats beat UNC while we beat Weber - advantage Cats
The Cats beat Stephen F Austin while we lost to Washington State - being generous that's a push (cats were at home)
The Cats beat Drake while we beat Idaho
The Cats beat Chadron while we beat Cal Poly.
The Cats lost to us - at home.

Assuming we both win, the only way the Cats get seeded ahead of us is if the committee goes strictly off the polls and a narrow difference in computer rankings which could still lean either way after Saturday and ignores everything else.

[clawman]

If you look at Danefan's thread on the GPI, it's clear the committee highly regards strength of schedule and FBS wins.

The Cats beat UNC while we beat Weber - advantage Cats
The Cats beat Stephen F Austin while we lost to Washington State - being generous that's a push (cats were at home)
The Cats beat Drake while we beat Idaho
The Cats beat Chadron while we beat Cal Poly.
The Cats lost to us - at home.

Assuming we both win, the only way the Cats get seeded ahead of us is if the committee goes strictly off the polls and a narrow difference in computer rankings which could still lean either way after Saturday and ignores everything else.

So do you think the committee will apply the Cat fans "ifs and buts, peanuts and nuts" factor?
Does the outcome of the NAU vs Cal Poly game matter?

[kalm]

When it comes to seeding? No and...no.

[profisme]

How long did MSU keep their starters in against UND? Because EWU pulled theirs with about 4 minutes or so left in the 3rd. Also, MSU needed 4 Sac Turnovers to win by 3... we were -1 in turnovers and won by 3. EWU also put a beating on CP and out rushed them.... first team all year to out rush them. Plus, it's not like we didn't have a good handful of starters out for the MSU game as well. Regardless, owning the head to head, the same number of DI wins one of which is against an "FBS" team, and having played a much tougher schedule, means that EWU will get a higher seed, and that's all that matters to me.

With Coach Ash, his preferred method in a game is to simply run the clock out with his starters rather than pull the starters. In the UND game, the Cats ran 19 plays in the 4th quarter. 18 of those were runs and the only pass was a 1 yard TD pass on 3rd and 1.

I think the auto-bid will ultimately decide which team ends up with the higher seed.

[kalm]

B
With Coach Ash, his preferred method in a game is to simply run the clock out with his starters rather than pull the starters. In the UND game, the Cats ran 19 plays in the 4th quarter. 18 of those were runs and the only pass was a 1 yard TD pass on 3rd and 1.

I think the auto-bid will ultimately decide which team ends up with the higher seed.

1). Why

2). Should it?

[profisme]

It will give easier justification for the committee for seeding one above the other.

In short, if EWU had simply beaten unranked SUU, this wouldn't be an argument. If they hadn't struggled at home against UCD last week, this wouldn't be an argument. The Cats are playing much better as of late than EWU. The fact is, EWU should blow out PSU this weekend, but we shall see. If the Cats lose this weekend, it also will not be an argument as they will be out of the running for a seed altogether.

[kalm]

It will give easier justification for the committee for seeding one above the other.

In short, if EWU had simply beaten unranked SUU, this wouldn't be an argument. If they hadn't struggled at home against UCD last week, this wouldn't be an argument. The Cats are playing much better as of late than EWU. The fact is, EWU should blow out PSU this weekend, but we shall see. If the Cats lose this weekend, it also will not be an argument as they will be out of the running for a seed altogether.

I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure past committees have mentioned that AB's have little if nothing to do with seeding. With bigger conferences, there are times where the top two teams don't even face each other, not to mention comparing an AB from a weaker conference.

[CopperCat]

My point is that MSU isn't playing better football, they're just playing much easier opponents as of late. EWU and MSU are pretty even, IMO.

MSU is absolutely playing better football. To me, the biggest thing is that the Cats have done a better job of limiting mistakes, i.e. turnovers and penalties. Doesn't really matter who you are playing if you're eliminating self imposed setbacks. Bottom line is that MSU is starting to look like the team that they are capable of being. And that bodes well for the game tomorrow, and the playoffs in the coming weeks.

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[clawman]

You are probably right

[Red & Black]

It will give easier justification for the committee for seeding one above the other.

In short, if EWU had simply beaten unranked SUU, this wouldn't be an argument. If they hadn't struggled at home against UCD last week, this wouldn't be an argument. The Cats are playing much better as of late than EWU. The fact is, EWU should blow out PSU this weekend, but we shall see. If the Cats lose this weekend, it also will not be an argument as they will be out of the running for a seed altogether.

None of that gets around the fact that EWU beat the cats in head to head competition in Bozeman. It doesn't matter that they have played better since. Assuming both teams win tomorrow, the committee will not simply ignore the HTH, sorry. We found that out in 2010 in the exact same scenario. If EWU had gotten the higher seed back then would you have been happy about it? You could make the argument that EWU was playing better than MSU to close out the 2010 season. Should it have mattered?


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[profisme]

None of that gets around the fact that EWU beat the cats in head to head competition in Bozeman. It doesn't matter that they have played better since. Assuming both teams win tomorrow, the committee will not simply ignore the HTH, sorry. We found that out in 2010 in the exact same scenario. If EWU had gotten the higher seed back then would you have been happy about it? You could make the argument that EWU was playing better than MSU to close out the 2010 season. Should it have mattered?


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MSU also won the H2H that year, 30-7. EWU won by 3 points this year while being held to 211 yards of offense. Two vastly different games.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

MSU also won the H2H that year, 30-7. EWU won by 3 points this year while being held to 211 yards of offense. Two vastly different games.

Yeah, but MSU also lost to NAU 34-7 to balance that out, just like EWU only lost by 3 to SUU. The H2H and strength of schedule still trumps your D-II win and (potential) four game win streak.

[robsnotes4u]

Just like rankings, more things come in to play besides head to head. A final score doesn't mean someone is better overall or now. Who is rated higher in the polls EWU or MSU? What about Georgia Southern and Applachian State same story.

Dan Gable lost one match in his historic college wrestling career, and went on to win Olympic Gold not even giving up one point. Was the guy who beat him better than him? Only on that day!!

[robsnotes4u]

MSU is absolutely playing better football. To me, the biggest thing is that the Cats have done a better job of limiting mistakes, i.e. turnovers and penalties. Doesn't really matter who you are playing if you're eliminating self imposed setbacks. Bottom line is that MSU is starting to look like the team that they are capable of being. And that bodes well for the game tomorrow, and the playoffs in the coming weeks.

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Well Said

[Red & Black]

MSU also won the H2H that year, 30-7. EWU won by 3 points this year while being held to 211 yards of offense. Two vastly different games.

The score is all that matters, and you didn't answer the question.

This auto-bid talk is pretty irrelevant anyway. If both EWU and MSU win out, both will be seeded, with EWU getting the higher seed due to a tougher strength of schedule and the HTH over MSU, you can be assured of that. Of the top 4 teams in the Big Sky, MSU will have played only one (EWU), and lost. EWU played both MSU and Cal Poly, and beat them both. Case closed.


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[Red & Black]

Just like rankings, more things come in to play besides head to head. A final score doesn't mean someone is better overall or now. Who is rated higher in the polls EWU or MSU? What about Georgia Southern and Applachian State same story.

Dan Gable lost one match in his historic college wrestling career, and went on to win Olympic Gold not even giving up one point. Was the guy who beat him better than him? Only on that day!!

Pay attention, the polls mean jack and sh/t when seeding is concerned. EWU was the #1 team in every poll at the end of the 2010 season and was given the #5 seed due to the loss to MSU. The same thing will happen to MSU this season if they end up beating the Griz. And I think that's a definite if going into tomorrow's game.


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[kalm]

Pay attention, the polls mean jack and sh/t when seeding is concerned. EWU was the #1 team in every poll at the end of the 2010 season and was given the #5 seed due to the loss to MSU. The same thing will happen to MSU this season if they end up beating the Griz. And I think that's a definite if going into tomorrow's game.


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MSU is no Dan Gable...xcoffeex

[MSUBobcat]

At this point EWU rightfully should be seeded higher. If the Cats win in convincing fashion in Wa-Griz (as opposed to needing an onside recovery and late score) and EWU doesn't blow out PSU, I could see the seed shifting due to "what have you done for me lately". NAU getting a strong win over Poly will not help EWU either, so the Eags should be rooting for Poly IMO.

[robsnotes4u]

MSU is no Dan Gable...xcoffeex

I guess it is a pretty easy to see who is the better overall team, just like at the stats http://bigskyconf.com/custompages/football/2012/stats/confonly.htm
(http://bigskyconf.com/custompages/football/2012/stats/confonly.htm)
Scoring Offense MSU #2 EWU #5
Scoring Defense MSU #2 EWU #4
Total Offense MSU #4 EWU #6
Total Defense MSU #1 EWU #9
Rushing Offense MSU #3 EWU #8
Pass Offense EWU #4 MSU #6
Pass Defense MSU #1 EWU #5
Pass Efficiency MSU #2 EWU #3
Pass Defense Efficiency MSU #1 EWU #5
Kickoff Returns EWU #3 MSU #13
Punt Return Average EWu #3 MSU #5
Interceptions MSU #1 EWU #11
Punting EWU #8 MSU #11
Kickoff Coverage EWU #4 MSU #8
Field Goals EWU #1 MSU #5
PAT MSU #10 EWU #12
Sacks by MSU #2 EWU #5
Sacks against EWU #6 MSU #7
First Downs MSU #1 EWU #7
Opponents First Down (not Allowing) MSU #1 EWU #7

I could keep going but I think you got the picture, there is no question who the better team is. The rest of the stats don't get any better for you but go ahead and read it. The reality is it doesn't matter what I think or what you think, we do not pick the seeds. Your perception is different from mine.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

I guess it is a pretty easy to see who is the better overall team, just like at the stats http://bigskyconf.com/custompages/football/2012/stats/confonly.htm
(http://bigskyconf.com/custompages/football/2012/stats/confonly.htm)
Scoring Offense MSU #2 EWU #5
Scoring Defense MSU #2 EWU #4
Total Offense MSU #4 EWU #6
Total Defense MSU #1 EWU #9
Rushing Offense MSU #3 EWU #8
Pass Offense EWU #4 MSU #6
Pass Defense MSU #1 EWU #5
Pass Efficiency MSU #2 EWU #3
Pass Defense Efficiency MSU #1 EWU #5
Kickoff Returns EWU #3 MSU #13
Punt Return Average EWu #3 MSU #5
Interceptions MSU #1 EWU #11
Punting EWU #8 MSU #11
Kickoff Coverage EWU #4 MSU #8
Field Goals EWU #1 MSU #5
PAT MSU #10 EWU #12
Sacks by MSU #2 EWU #5
Sacks against EWU #6 MSU #7
First Downs MSU #1 EWU #7
Opponents First Down (not Allowing) MSU #1 EWU #7

I could keep going but I think you got the picture, there is no question who the better team is. The rest of the stats don't get any better for you but go ahead and read it. The reality is it doesn't matter what I think or what you think, we do not pick the seeds. Your perception is different from mine.

Keep in mind MSU's stats don't include games against CP, UM, or two FBS schools, but rather UNC, Drake, and Chadron State. Stats don't mean much... games are decided on the field, and EWU was the better team.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Which still isnt saying much..................

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[Red & Black]

I guess it is a pretty easy to see who is the better overall team, just like at the stats http://bigskyconf.com/custompages/football/2012/stats/confonly.htm
(http://bigskyconf.com/custompages/football/2012/stats/confonly.htm)
Scoring Offense MSU #2 EWU #5
Scoring Defense MSU #2 EWU #4
Total Offense MSU #4 EWU #6
Total Defense MSU #1 EWU #9
Rushing Offense MSU #3 EWU #8
Pass Offense EWU #4 MSU #6
Pass Defense MSU #1 EWU #5
Pass Efficiency MSU #2 EWU #3
Pass Defense Efficiency MSU #1 EWU #5
Kickoff Returns EWU #3 MSU #13
Punt Return Average EWu #3 MSU #5
Interceptions MSU #1 EWU #11
Punting EWU #8 MSU #11
Kickoff Coverage EWU #4 MSU #8
Field Goals EWU #1 MSU #5
PAT MSU #10 EWU #12
Sacks by MSU #2 EWU #5
Sacks against EWU #6 MSU #7
First Downs MSU #1 EWU #7
Opponents First Down (not Allowing) MSU #1 EWU #7

I could keep going but I think you got the picture, there is no question who the better team is. The rest of the stats don't get any better for you but go ahead and read it. The reality is it doesn't matter what I think or what you think, we do not pick the seeds. Your perception is different from mine.

You're right, our perceptions are quite different. These stats would be relevant if both teams played identical schedules. But if you want to cite stats that are artificially bloated by playing schools like Drake and Chadron State as a reason for why MSU is the better team, then so be it. One team played a non-conference schedule of two FBS schools and a top 15 FCS; the other played a Division II, a non-scholly FCS, and a 4-6 FCS. Also factor in the fact that MSU played only one of the other top 4 programs in the conference (and lost), while EWU holds wins over both MSU and Cal Poly. But please, continue to try to make the argument that MSU has the more impressive resume; I'm sure the selection commitee is listening.


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[Red & Black]

Which still isnt saying much..................

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From where I sit 8-2 looks a whole lot better than 5-5. But maybe that's just me.


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[Griz_are_Beta_AF]

2. Winning the turnover battle by +4 and only winning by 3 isn't playing better. If the turnover margin had been even, MSU would have likely been blown out.
3. So is going for it on 4th and a couple with a retarded "trick" play formation instead of taking an easy 3.
4. Regardless of how bad Idaho is, they're still better than Drake and Chadron State.

Do you realize Drake is 7-3? They're no free-bee game this year, they're a solid team. I don't care what conference they play in, 7-3 is pretty damn good.

[frozennorth]

xlolx
Do you realize Drake is 7-3? They're no free-bee game this year, they're a solid team. I don't care what conference they play in, 7-3 is pretty damn good.

[robsnotes4u]

Keep in mind MSU's stats don't include games against CP, UM, or two FBS schools, but rather UNC, Drake, and Chadron State. Stats don't mean much... games are decided on the field, and EWU was the better team.

Only BSC stats, doesn't include non-conference games. I hope they play again, doesn't matter where at.

1. I am a Big Sky Conference Fan
2. Favorite Schools, MSU grew up as a Cat, attended UND
3. Cheer for any BSC school in the playoffs, but first those named in #2 first
4. Cheer for NDSU because I live in Fargo

Good luck to the Eagles. I think everything will be really different after today.
1. Cats will win
2. Eagles will win, but not by as big a margin as the Cats over PSU, which will be in the minds of the committee
3. NDSU loses a close one on the road.
4. Cats #1 Seed, ODU or EWU #2.
5. Could be a Cat vs EWU Championship

[robsnotes4u]

You're right, our perceptions are quite different. These stats would be relevant if both teams played identical schedules. But if you want to cite stats that are artificially bloated by playing schools like Drake and Chadron State as a reason for why MSU is the better team, then so be it. One team played a non-conference schedule of two FBS schools and a top 15 FCS; the other played a Division II, a non-scholly FCS, and a 4-6 FCS. Also factor in the fact that MSU played only one of the other top 4 programs in the conference (and lost), while EWU holds wins over both MSU and Cal Poly. But please, continue to try to make the argument that MSU has the more impressive resume; I'm sure the selection commitee is listening.


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I figured out your logic. Please, if you could, explain this to me so everything is crystal clear.
1. You are better than MSU because you beat them, correct?
2. Stats don't matter, correct?
3. Polls don't matter, correct?

Those three things make you a better team, correct?

You must be worried then that Southern Utah is better than you, and going to get a higher seed than you in the playoffs. Wait they aren't in the playoffs, and by your logic then you shouldn't be either, since they beat you.

You could just have an excuse and say they got lucky or you had a bad game, I mean it was only by 3 points. No, that doesn't work because that could be used against you in your 3 point win over MSU

With 5 wins that were only by one possession (7 pts or less). Looks to me that you guys are luck to have a record good enough to even be considered for the playoffs. Better to be lucky than good!

Keep up the Good Fight.

[kalm]

I'd be surprised if the committee opens up the BSC stat sheet to help with their decision. 'It's a total coin fl...no...wait a second, MSU has a better 3rd conversion percentage...yep...it's definitely the cats!".

[Herder]

And I was thinking, why are the 2-4 teams in sky getting much more ranking respect than the valley teams. IL state should be top 5 and be a seed. Has anyone looked at the conf sagarins? SDSU and IL state actually play defense, which I dont see much of in the sky.

[kalm]

And I was thinking, why are the 2-4 teams in sky getting much more ranking respect than the valley teams. IL state should be top 5 and be a seed. Has anyone looked at the conf sagarins? SDSU and IL state actually play defense, which I dont see much of in the sky.

Illinois state wins today, they get a top 4 seed. And yes, we play defense, and offense too. Ask SDSU about our 11th place teams defense.

[robsnotes4u]

And I was thinking, why are the 2-4 teams in sky getting much more ranking respect than the valley teams. IL state should be top 5 and be a seed. Has anyone looked at the conf sagarins? SDSU and IL state actually play defense, which I dont see much of in the sky.

You make a good point. I do not think Cal Poly or NAU are better than SDSU and IL State. I picked the Bison to lose one of the last three games with these two on the schedule, my Bison buddies think differently. Big games today in the Conference for those teams.

Everyone have a fun day today cheering for or against teams. We are going to a Cat/Griz alumini party for the game in Fargo which will be fun win or lose. I am usually on the losing side, and my wife the winning side. I think the game is going to be close. I wish I was in Missoula drinking a bloody mary right now. Two wins in a row in Missoula would be unbelievable.

[Red & Black]

I figured out your logic. Please, if you could, explain this to me so everything is crystal clear.
1. You are better than MSU because you beat them, correct?
2. Stats don't matter, correct?
3. Polls don't matter, correct?

Those three things make you a better team, correct?

You must be worried then that Southern Utah is better than you, and going to get a higher seed than you in the playoffs. Wait they aren't in the playoffs, and by your logic then you shouldn't be either, since they beat you.

You could just have an excuse and say they got lucky or you had a bad game, I mean it was only by 3 points. No, that doesn't work because that could be used against you in your 3 point win over MSU

With 5 wins that were only by one possession (7 pts or less). Looks to me that you guys are luck to have a record good enough to even be considered for the playoffs. Better to be lucky than good!

Keep up the Good Fight.

You can believe in luck, or you can believe in skill. We beat you, deal with it.

With a much tougher non-conference schedule than MSU, HTH wins over co-champions MSU and Cal Poly, PLUS winning the auto-bid, there's very little chance MSU gets the higher seed, IMO.


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[CopperCat]

IMO.


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Exactly. It's just your opinion. So let the actual experts decide who gets it.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Do you realize Drake is 7-3? They're no free-bee game this year, they're a solid team. I don't care what conference they play in, 7-3 is pretty damn good.

Forgot to laugh at this earlier.

http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif

[robsnotes4u]

Well EWU proved it today, they are not better than MSU, what a struggle against a Portland State Team that MSU crushed the week before. NDSU #1 MSU #2 EWU maybe 4 or 5, even though you received the AB

[CopperCat]

You can believe in luck, or you can believe in skill. We beat you, deal with it.

With a much tougher non-conference schedule than MSU, HTH wins over co-champions MSU and Cal Poly, PLUS winning the auto-bid, there's very little chance MSU gets the higher seed, IMO.


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So your brethren are saying msu played a weak OOC schedule but you're saying you get the seed because you beat them when you also lost to an UNRANKED team? MSUs only loss was to EWU.........I fail to see your logic.

And EWU did not play very well against a PSU team they should have dominated today.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

So your brethren are saying msu played a weak OOC schedule but you're saying you get the seed because you beat them when you also lost to an UNRANKED team? MSUs only loss was to EWU.........I fail to see your logic.

And EWU did not play very well against a PSU team they should have dominated today.

MSU should've dominated Drake... but they didn't. And it's not just about who a team has lost to, it's more about who they've beat. MSU: 0-1 against playoff teams. EWU: 2-0.

[CopperCat]

Just like EWU should have dominated PSU?

And here it comes again...........ready for it?










EWU lost to an unranked team. Msu's only loss is to a playoff team.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Just like EWU should have dominated PSU?

And here it comes again...........ready for it?










EWU lost to an unranked team. Msu's only loss is to a playoff team.

And I'll say it again: MSU also had a loss to an unranked team (34-7). Did it hurt MSU getting a higher seed than EWU? Nope.

MSU has no wins against ranked teams. None. Nada. Zero. Zilch.

[Griz_are_Beta_AF]

And I'll say it again: MSU also had a loss to an unranked team (34-7). Did it hurt MSU getting a higher seed than EWU? Nope.

MSU has no wins against ranked teams. None. Nada. Zero. Zilch.

SFA was ranked when we played them.

[kalm]

SFA was ranked when we played them.

Idaho was undefeated when we played them.

[Walkon79]

Idaho was undefeated when we played them.

LOL, that was funny right there!


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[CopperCat]

Montana may not be a playoff team, but beating the griz on the road is not easy to do no matter what year it is. Wash griz is one of the hardest stadiums to get a win in if you're not the home team.

[robsnotes4u]

Congrats EWU on the 2 seed. See you in the playoffs


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[robsnotes4u]

Congrats EWU on the 2 seed. See you in the playoffs.


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[robsnotes4u]

Congrats to EWU. See you at your place to even the score. Good luck in the playoffs

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[Catbooster]

Congrats Cal-Poly, EWU and MSU. Looks like I'll be a Cal-Poly fan for only 1 week and an EWU fan for 2 weeks - and as always, a Bobcat fan every week.

[Walkon79]

EWU may have the easiest road to the semis.

Hopefully our revenge tour starts in 3 weeks.

SHSU
EWU
NDSU

Here we go!!!


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[robsnotes4u]

EWU may have the easiest road to the semis.

Hopefully our revenge tour starts in 3 weeks.

SHSU
EWU
NDSU

Here we go!!!


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Nice. That would make a good T-shirt


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[NoDak 4 Ever]

EWU may have the easiest road to the semis.

Hopefully our revenge tour starts in 3 weeks.

SHSU
EWU
NDSU

Here we go!!!


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You know you have to win the 2nd round game, right? I would put that on a shirt.

[Walkon79]

You know you have to win the 2nd round game, right? I would put that on a shirt.

Fortunately I'm a fan and have the luxury to look ahead. I'm sure Rob isn't.


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[clawman]

May as well delete this thread, the NCAA answered the question for me.xlolx

[robsnotes4u]

Fortunately I'm a fan and have the luxury to look ahead. I'm sure Rob isn't.


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Oh, I am in on the shirt. My loyalty is to the Cats before the Bison.
My loyalty.
bobcats, grew up as a Cat, Dad went to school there in Dennis Erickson, Jan Stenrud, joe Tiller years, I was just a baby then
UND, attended college there
Griz, my wife is a graduate
NDSU because I live in Fargo, and the NCC

I would wear the shirt proudly amongst all my Bison friends




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[robsnotes4u]

Fortunately I'm a fan and have the luxury to look ahead. I'm sure Rob isn't.


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I am looking forward to watching the Cats vs the Bison in Frisco with the Cats taking home the trophy.


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[ALPHAGRIZ1]

App St vs Bison 2012

Bison win again

[robsnotes4u]

App St vs Bison 2012

Bison win again

Don't know much about ODU, but I expect NDSU to come out of the upper half if they play like they did in the 4th quarter yesterday. If not SDSU will give them fits.

Bottom half is tougher to pick a favorite, but I don't think it will be App St.


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[Mr. C]

Folks, why can't people understand that a head-to-head win should make Eastern Washington the higher ranked-seeded team? This isn't brain surgery.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

It isnt rocket science either but EWU is not a top 5 team.

Sorry they just are not that good and people will find that out in the playoffs......real soon.

[Mr. C]

Alpha, I think that the Big Sky is going to be shocked when both of its seeded teams fall early in the playoffs. I could see Villanova and Appalachian State knock both of them out by the quarterfinals. I'm not expecting much from Cal Poly, either.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I wont be shocked unless they advance farther than 2 games, I know how "good" the teams are, I watched them this year. If the BSC was strong this year, most of our "playoff teams" would have been around .500.

[grizwin]

Montana may not be a playoff team, but beating the griz on the road is not easy to do no matter what year it is. Wash griz is one of the hardest stadiums to get a win in if you're not the home team.

even though 3 teams went intp wa griz and won by 2 scores(and nau game was a blowout as cosmetic TD made it a 10 pt loss)

[grizwin]

Ok so eastern wash is 2-0 against the field msu 0-1... eastern and cats both have 1 fcs loss and eastern beat msu.... seems like an easy call between these 2 teams that eastern should be 2 seed.. neither team will get past final 8 if they even get that far

[dudeitsaid]

Ok so eastern wash is 2-0 against the field msu 0-1... eastern and cats both have 1 fcs loss and eastern beat msu.... seems like an easy call between these 2 teams that eastern should be 2 seed.. neither team will get past final 8 if they even get that far

"if they get that far" which I think they will, it would be amazing that "neither team" will get past the final 8, since they would be playing each other.

Personally, that's exactly how I see it going down. MSU will get a rematch with SHSU at home and win, EWU will win a close one at home against App, and then host MSU. Eastern will be down again late in the game before a Bobcat player pulls another bonehead move, giving EWU new life, when the Eagles will pull some great plays out of their bag of tricks and defeat them on the final play of the game, resulting in countless Bobcat fans filled with years of frustration about the woulda, coulda, shoulda been if their player woud've just had more discipline! Then every year, as the playoff debate comes up, Eagles fans will be reminded of how MSU would've won the NC, and blew it by "giving us the game". Seriously, though, MSU is going to do well in the playoffs IMO, and a rematch in the playoffs would be a heck of a game if it happens!

[kalm]

Welcome aboard Alpha and Grizwin...and please, buck up little campers! The Griz will be back before you ya know it! In the meantime, come over to Cheney for one, two, or all three games and the beer is on me! !xlolx

Sounds like the Cats have been getting healthy the last half of the season and they are definitely on a roll. We have been getting healthier as well, but our defense seems to have regressed and that is a concern. EWU played the toughest schedule of anyone in the conference and I think the conference is as tough as it's ever been. Look at how close bottom half teams like Davis and SUU played people, and look at the FBS wins - two of which are from teams that didn't make the playoffs.

I still like our chances as well as anyone in this field and we will be favored in every game.

[robsnotes4u]

Looking for MSU or EWU to reach the finals. One of them will end up playing good. Problem in their part of the world is weather can help decide games. Good luck to both of these schools.

This bracket has more parity than the others



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[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Kalm you are a good dude but there is no way I ever show up at another game @ EWU. I go to college games for the stadiums, atmosphere and fans and you guys have none of the 3.

Screaming Bagel, a chain link fence and herpes near a wheat field dont get it done in my book.

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[Walkon79]

Welcome aboard Alpha and Grizwin...and please, buck up little campers! The Griz will be back before you ya know it! In the meantime, come over to Cheney for one, two, or all three games and the beer is on me! !xlolx

Sounds like the Cats have been getting healthy the last half of the season and they are definitely on a roll. We have been getting healthier as well, but our defense seems to have regressed and that is a concern. EWU played the toughest schedule of anyone in the conference and I think the conference is as tough as it's ever been. Look at how close bottom half teams like Davis and SUU played people, and look at the FBS wins - two of which are from teams that didn't make the playoffs.

I still like our chances as well as anyone in this field and we will be favored in every game.

Guess we should start a "Keep Doubting the Big Sky" thread. I'm not sure why everyone seems to think Nova or Stony Brook, or later App State or Sam are going to have it so easy coming west and north in the playoffs. I know the Cats haven't performed well in the playoffs the past few years, and Eastern has let some weaker teams stay with them as of late, but home field is huge as usual so I see them both favored in every game until the semis.

I think the selection committe did no favors to the top three seeds including NDSU, and did a disservice to the MVFC and Big Sky in general, but we'll play whoever and will be a tough out in Bozeman. Same with the Eagles!!

Take the next step has been our motto all year, and I fully expect that to be the case.

[grizwin]

"if they get that far" which I think they will, it would be amazing that "neither team" will get past the final 8, since they would be playing each other.

Personally, that's exactly how I see it going down. MSU will get a rematch with SHSU at home and win, EWU will win a close one at home against App, and then host MSU. Eastern will be down again late in the game before a Bobcat player pulls another bonehead move, giving EWU new life, when the Eagles will pull some great plays out of their bag of tricks and defeat them on the final play of the game, resulting in countless Bobcat fans filled with years of frustration about the woulda, coulda, shoulda been if their player woud've just had more discipline! Then every year, as the playoff debate comes up, Eagles fans will be reminded of how MSU would've won the NC, and blew it by "giving us the game". Seriously, though, MSU is going to do well in the playoffs IMO, and a rematch in the playoffs would be a heck of a game if it happens!

Actually ewash and cats would not meet till final 4 ... you know 2 vs 3 would not play in final 8

[dudeitsaid]

You're right, my bad.

[CopperCat]

Alpha, I think that the Big Sky is going to be shocked when both of its seeded teams fall early in the playoffs. I could see Villanova and Appalachian State both of them out by the quarterfinals. I'm not expecting much from Cal Poly, either.

Explain, please.

East coast bias also noted.

[Mr. C]

Explain, please.

East coast bias also noted.

What is with this East Coast bias stuff? Do people not pay attention around here? I'm a California boy and one of my earliest college football memories was of Jan Stenerud putting it to my Fresno State Bulldogs with a 55-yard field goal in Fresno at Ratcliffe Stadium when I was a kid. I may not get to see many Big Sky games in person (have seen Montana play in person once, or twice every year since 2008), but I see them on DVD, or TV with regularity. I just think the Sky has some tough matchup problems with the way the bracket is designed. Villanova, in particular, could be a tough out in this year's playoffs. And even the EWU fans are concerned with how the Eagles have played down the stretch.

[CopperCat]

The east coast bias is alive and well. But all in good fun.

I'm looking for specifics mr. C. Matchup problems where? Run defense? Run offense? Those are the two "problem areas" I would expect someone who hasn't seen MSU play talk about.....

[Mr. C]

The east coast bias is alive and well. But all in good fun.

I'm looking for specifics mr. C. Matchup problems where? Run defense? Run offense? Those are the two "problem areas" I would expect someone who hasn't seen MSU play talk about.....

It isn't what Montana State does as much as what Villanova brings to the table. Delaware was leading the CAA in rushing defense and Villanova had over 300 yards on the ground (third time in four games, incidently) and nearly 500 yards total (498 officially) against a pretty stout Blue Hen defense. Where did you get that I haven't seen Montana State play? Got a DVD of MSU-EWU sitting by the DVD player as we speak and have seen the Bobcats enough. I just think Villanova (or Stony Brook) will offer a physical challenge. We all know Stony Brook was very physical with Sam Houston State last year, something that Montana State was shockingly not a week later when most of us though the Bobcats would beat the Bearkats. I also think Montana State might have trouble scoring on Villanova's defense.

[kalm]

What is with this East Coast bias stuff? Do people not pay attention around here? I'm a California boy and one of my earliest college football memories was of Jan Stenerud putting it to my Fresno State Bulldogs with a 55-yard field goal in Fresno at Ratcliffe Stadium when I was a kid. I may not get to see many Big Sky games in person (have seen Montana play in person once, or twice every year since 2008), but I see them on DVD, or TV with regularity. I just think the Sky has some tough matchup problems with the way the bracket is designed. Villanova, in particular, could be a tough out in this year's playoffs. And even the EWU fans are concerned with how the Eagles have played down the stretch.

It started with your defense of Lehigh and how you thought the committee would view them.

[CrazyCat]

UM 34 Liberty 14
Liberty 28 Stony Brook 14
MSU 16 UM 7

[robsnotes4u]

UM 34 Liberty 14
Liberty 28 Stony Brook 14
MSU 16 UM 7

Sounds logical to me.


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[CrazyCat]

Sounds logical to me.


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Yep. It's a hell of alot better than trying to use last years results. We had problems with big option type teams last year. This year, not so much.

[Mr. C]

It started with your defense of Lehigh and how you thought the committee would view them.

The committee went against almost all past precedent in not selecting a team that had won 10 Division I games. The only time a 10-win team from an auto bid conference had been overlooked before was Bucknell in 1997 — the first year the Patriot League had an auto bid. Yes, I would have selected Lehigh into the field, but what does that have to do with East Coast bias? I've made cases like that for teams like Cal Poly in the past. I'll champion a team that deserves it no matter what part of the country they are from. It is so simplistic when you Big Sky fans bring out the East Coast bias nonsense.

[Mr. C]

Yep. It's a hell of alot better than trying to use last years results. We had problems with big option type teams last year. This year, not so much.

Villanova and Stony Brook are not "big option-type teams." Stony Brook lines up and plays power football. Villanova runs a lot of spread, but it still does the stuff upfront that is similar to those I Formation, power Wildcat teams of the early 1990s.

And enough on the score comparisons. A lot of teams lose at Washington-Grizzly Stadium and a lot of teams lose at Williams Stadium at Liberty. Both are among the best venues in FCS and both are very difficult venues for visiting teams to come away with victories.

[kalm]

The committee went against almost all past precedent in not selecting a team that had won 10 Division I games. The only time a 10-win team from an auto bid conference had been overlooked before was Bucknell in 1997 — the first year the Patriot League had an auto bid. Yes, I would have selected Lehigh into the field, but what does that have to do with East Coast bias? I've made cases like that for teams like Cal Poly in the past. I'll champion a team that deserves it no matter what part of the country they are from. It is so simplistic when you Big Sky fans bring out the East Coast bias nonsense.

Well guilty as charged on the ECB stuff. :D But I will make the case of at least an appearance by many posters of ECB regarding weaker eastern conferences. It stems from a lack of these teams out west for the BSC to feast on in the regular season and opening rounds of the playoffs. We simply fail to see much difference between the middle of the road to bottom dwellers of these conferences and western DII powers like Chadron and Central Washington. Central Washington walks into Washington Grizzly stadium a few years back loses by three and then beats EWU in Cheney in another year. Their roster is loaded with talented athletes, many of which are Pac-12 and WAC re-treads.

As for Lehigh, I get what you're saying, but again, those 10 wins come with a huge asterisk. And you can make the same case regarding 8-3 Richmond and NAU not getting in. When was the last time that happened to 8-3 teams from the CAA and BSC? Idaho State in 2003?

It was an unusual year.

[Bobcat in NC]

Villanova and Stony Brook are not "big option-type teams." Stony Brook lines up and plays power football. Villanova runs a lot of spread, but it still does the stuff upfront that is similar to those I Formation, power Wildcat teams of the early 1990s.

And enough on the score comparisons. A lot of teams lose at Washington-Grizzly Stadium and a lot of teams lose at Williams Stadium at Liberty. Both are among the best venues in FCS and both are very difficult venues for visiting teams to come away with victories.

The last two times MSU has gone into WaGriz have worked out pretty well...

For the most part, though, I agree with you on the transitive properties of football. That said, I don't think that either SB or 'Nova leave Bobcat Stadium with a win. Cross-country trip, altitude and a run defense playing like MSU is right now. Would rather see 'Nova, as they do tend to run a bit more spread and I don't see them being able to get the edge against MSU's ends or being able to outrun their linebackers. If that forces them inside, Minter will be there to greet them...

[Bobcat in NC]

What is with this East Coast bias stuff? Do people not pay attention around here? I'm a California boy and one of my earliest college football memories was of Jan Stenerud putting it to my Fresno State Bulldogs with a 55-yard field goal in Fresno at Ratcliffe Stadium when I was a kid. I may not get to see many Big Sky games in person (have seen Montana play in person once, or twice every year since 2008), but I see them on DVD, or TV with regularity. I just think the Sky has some tough matchup problems with the way the bracket is designed. Villanova, in particular, could be a tough out in this year's playoffs. And even the EWU fans are concerned with how the Eagles have played down the stretch.

Ummmmm, shouldn't pretty much everyone be a tough out, at this point...it being the playoffs and all?