Big South multiple team tiebreaker for AQ verification

[ITmonarch10]

Can someone verify this is the tie breaker procedure for Big South football?xsmhx





http://college-sports-source.appspot.com/images/conf-bsou.gif











Ovr

PF

PA

Conf

PF

PA














Stony Brook

9-2

430

176

5-1

232

90



Coastal Carolina

6-4

346

272

4-1

211

86



Liberty

5-5

266

230

4-1

164

104



Charleston Southern

5-5

199

271

3-2

110

120



Gardner-Webb

2-8

204

375

1-4

126

173



VMI

2-8

119

305

1-4

52

156



Presbyterian

2-8

156

396

0-5

59

225







Big South Tiebreaker


1.

Two-Way Tie



i.
Head-to-head competition.



ii.
If a tie still exists, then the records of the tying teams against the next highest team shall be compared.



iii.
The process outlined in step "ii" shall continue through the last team, if necessary.



iv.
Points allowed in Conference games.



v.
Sagarin ranking.



vi.
If a tie still remains, the automatic qualifier shall be drawn by lot.




2.

Multiple Ties



i.
Composite records between the tying teams shall be evaluated to determine if one team has won more games against the other tying teams.



ii.
In the event step "i" does not resolve the multiple ties or reduce the multiple tie to one tie, then a comparison of records of the tying teams against the next highest team shall be compared.



iii.
The process outlined in step "ii" shall continue through the last team, if necessary.



iv.
Points allowed in Conference games.



v.
Sagarin ranking.



vi.
If ties still remain, the automatic qualifier shall be drawn by lot. If the multiple ties are reduced to a tie between two teams, the two-way tiebreaker formula shall be utlized.



My best guess is
i. Basically means head to head among the 3 teams. They all lost to one another at some point in the season so they go to the next point.
ii. All-teams are 5-1 in conference play so this point doesn't apply.
iii. Same as ii.
iv. Currently Stony brook has allow 90 points in conference play and has no games left to play in the Big South.Coastal Carolina has allow 86 points and Liberty has allowed 104 points ,but both teams still have a game left to play.

Scenario #1 Both Liberty and Coastal Carolina win their last game. Coastal Carolina allows more than 4 points scored against them in the final game. Stony Brook is the AQ
Scenario #2 Both Liberty and Coastal Carolina win their last game. Coastal Carolina allows less than 4 points scored against them in the final game. Coastal Carolina is the AQ
Scenario #3 Liberty win and Coastal Carolina loses. Liberty won the head to head vs Stony Brook. Liberty is the AQ
Scenario #4 Liberty loses and Coastal Carolina win. Stony Brook won the head to head vs Coastal Carolina. Stony Brook is the AQ
Scenario #5 Liberty and Coastal Carolina both lose. Stony Brook win AQ outright
Scenario #6 Liberty and Coastal Carolina both win. Coastal Carolina somehow allows the opponent to score exactly 4 points. Stony Brook wins AQ due to stronger Sagarin Rating

So does that mean all the teams trying to get an at large spot are Coastal Carolina fans Next weekend so Stony Brook can get the AQ?

[rokamortis]

That's the old procedure - instead of points allowed it is road conference wins. Coastal is 3-0 on the road while SBU is 2-1 (losing at Liberty) and Liberty is 1-1 (losing at Coastal and playing at VMI this weekend). Coastal plays Charleston Southern at home. SBU is on a bye.

Scenarios:
Stony Brook - In order for SBU to get the AQ Liberty must lose.
Liberty - Liberty must win and hope for a Coastal loss in order to get the AQ.
Coastal - Coastal and Liberty must win for Coastal to get the AQ.

[MTfan4life]

You really should provide a link if you're going to claim that that is the tiebreaker. Where did you get that from?

From the Big South Website: Tiebreak procedure (http://www.bigsouthsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=25301&SPID=1985&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4800&ATCLID=205265327)


A. Tiebreaker: If co-champions are declared, the following tiebreaker formula shall be utilized to determine the recipient of the automatic qualifier:

1. Two-Way Tie
i. Head-to-head competition.
ii. If a tie still exists, then the records of the tying teams against the next highest team shall be compared.
iii. The process outlined in step "ii" shall continue through the last team, if necessary.
iv. Road wins in Conference games
v. Home wins in Conference games
vi. Point system based on complete schedule and wins using the latest available Sagarin rankings as indicated below:

Sagarin Ranking 1-50 (5 points for scheduling, 10 points for win = 15 max.)
Sagarin Ranking 51-100 (4 points for scheduling, 8 points for win = 12 max.)
Sagarin Ranking 101-150 (3 points for scheduling, 6 points for win = 9 max.)
Sagarin Ranking 151-200 (2 points for scheduling, 4 points for win = 6 max.)
Sagarin Ranking 201+ (1 point for scheduling, 2 points for win = 3 max.)

vii. Coin Toss


2. Multiple Ties
i. Composite records between the tying teams shall be evaluated to determine if one team has won more games against the other tying teams.
ii. In the event step "i" does not resolve the multiple ties or reduce the multiple tie to one tie, then a comparison of records of the tying teams against the next highest team shall be compared.
iii. The process outlined in step "ii" shall continue through the last team, if necessary.
iv. Road wins in Conference games
v. Home wins in Conference games
vi. Point system based on complete schedule and wins using the latest available Sagarin rankings as indicated below:

Sagarin Ranking 1-50 (5 points for scheduling, 10 points for win = 15 max.)
Sagarin Ranking 51-100 (4 points for scheduling, 8 points for win = 12 max.)
Sagarin Ranking 101-150 (3 points for scheduling, 6 points for win = 9 max.)
Sagarin Ranking 151-200 (2 points for scheduling, 4 points for win = 6 max.)
Sagarin Ranking 201+ (1 point for scheduling, 2 points for win = 3 max.)

vii. Coin Toss.

If the multiple ties are reduced to a tie between two teams, the two-way tiebreaker formula shall be utlized.

Also from the Big South roundup for week 11: Week 11 Roundup (http://www.bigsouthsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=25301&SPID=1985&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4800&ATCLID=205732154)

How many teams share the title will be determined next weekend with both Liberty and Coastal Carolina heading into the final week of the season with a 4-1 Big South record. The Chanticleers will host Charleston Southern at home. Kickoff at Brooks Stadium is 3:30 p.m.

Stony Brook wins the title outright and the League's automatic bid to the FCS Playoffs should both Liberty and Coastal Carolina were to lose. If the Flames defeat the Keydets and Coastal Carolina falls to Charleston Southern, Liberty shares the title with Stony Brook and earns its first-ever FCS Playoff berth based upon its head-to-head victory over the Seawolves today.

If both Liberty and Coastal Carolina win their season finales, the Big South season ends with its second three-way share of the title in two years. In this scenario, Coastal Carolina wins the tiebreaker and the League's automatic bid to the FCS Playoffs based upon its perfect 3-0 record in road Big South games in 2012 -- the fourth tiebreaker in the Conference's tiebreaking procedure..

[danefan]

You really should provide a link if you're going to claim that that is the tiebreaker. Where did you get that from?

From the Big South Website: Tiebreak procedure (http://www.bigsouthsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=25301&SPID=1985&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4800&ATCLID=205265327)



Also from the Big South roundup for week 11: Week 11 Roundup (http://www.bigsouthsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=25301&SPID=1985&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4800&ATCLID=205732154)

Uh, he asked for verification.... That's the point of the thread.

[MTfan4life]

Uh, he asked for verification.... That's the point of the thread.

I know, I was just saying I doubt he made up all that information. He had to have gotten it from a specific site. Might as well have provided a link.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It is no longer "points allowed in conference games", it's "road wins." I think I explained it last week.

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/fcs-football/509-playoffs-til-i-die-picking-the-fcs-playoff-bracket-week-11

This was changed after the fracas two years ago when Coastal ran up the score on a team that was out of it to get the autobid.

If CCU wins and Liberty wins, CCU wins the autobid because of this "road win" tiebreaker. Even with Stony Brook's FBS win, their loss to Syracuse might be what keeps them from the autobid.

[PantherRob82]

It is no longer "points allowed in conference games", it's "road wins." I think I explained it last week.

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/fcs-football/509-playoffs-til-i-die-picking-the-fcs-playoff-bracket-week-11

This was changed after the fracas two years ago when Coastal ran up the score on a team that was out of it to get the autobid.

If CCU wins and Liberty wins, CCU wins the autobid because of this "road win" tiebreaker. Even with Stony Brook's FBS win, their loss to Syracuse might be what keeps them from the autobid.

It's conference road wins. How does Syracuse come in to play?

[rokamortis]

It is no longer "points allowed in conference games", it's "road wins." I think I explained it last week.

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/fcs-football/509-playoffs-til-i-die-picking-the-fcs-playoff-bracket-week-11

This was changed after the fracas two years ago when Coastal ran up the score on a team that was out of it to get the autobid.

If CCU wins and Liberty wins, CCU wins the autobid because of this "road win" tiebreaker. Even with Stony Brook's FBS win, their loss to Syracuse might be what keeps them from the autobid.

The bolded part is incorrect. The number of points Coastal scored in the game against CSU was irrelevant in the defensive points allowed statistic. Because the tiebreaker was points allowed and not scored. The only thing Coastal could do to ahve an impact on the tiebreaker was limit the points scored against them during that game - which was 3.

[clenz]

That's the old procedure - instead of points allowed it is road conference wins. Coastal is 3-0 on the road while SBU is 2-1 (losing at Liberty) and Liberty is 1-1 (losing at Coastal and playing at VMI this weekend). Coastal plays Charleston Southern at home. SBU is on a bye.

Scenarios:
Stony Brook - In order for SBU to get the AQ Liberty must lose.
Liberty - Liberty must win and hope for a Coastal loss in order to get the AQ.
Coastal - Coastal and Liberty must win for Coastal to get the AQ.If it's basd on road record.....doesn't CCU have it wrapped up?

Both SBU and Liberty have road losses....

For some reason this doesn't make sense to me.

[asucrutch23]

If it's basd on road record.....doesn't CCU have it wrapped up?

Both SBU and Liberty have road losses....

For some reason this doesn't make sense to me.

CCU still has to beat CSU, not usually a tall task. While CSU isn't the doormat it was in the last 2 years, CCU should win.

I think Liberty must also beat VMI in order for the 3 team rules to apply. Liberty also should win.

[rokamortis]

If it's basd on road record.....doesn't CCU have it wrapped up?

Both SBU and Liberty have road losses....

For some reason this doesn't make sense to me.

That's only with a 3 way tie. Liberty and Coastal are still playing conference games this week. If both lose, no tie. If one loses then it will be a 2 way tie and head-to-head tiebreaker will apply.

[Sly Fox]

The Big South went from one terrible tiebreaker rule to another. This tiebreaker is decided by whether or not you have games against the tough teams at your place so losses don't matter. Another genius solution from Kommish Kyle. At some point they have to look at handling these 3-way ties through aggregate scoring of the tied parties (something I-AA Scribe mentioned back when the change was made back in the day). In the meantime, Coastal can thank the schedule-makers for handing them the auto bid.

Old school AGSers remember the last time CCU & CSU met with a playoff berth on the line was 2007. That game was legendary on this board for the crazy outcome.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Big South went from one terrible tiebreaker rule to another. This tiebreaker is decided by whether or not you have games against the tough teams at your place so losses don't matter. Another genius solution from Kommish Kyle. At some point they have to look at handling these 3-way ties through aggregate scoring of the tied parties (something I-AA Scribe mentioned back when the change was made back in the day). In the meantime, Coastal can thank the schedule-makers for handing them the auto bid.

Old school AGSers remember the last time CCU & CSU met with a playoff berth on the line was 2007. That game was legendary on this board for the crazy outcome.

I remember it well. Are Chuck South and CCU still considered big rivals? A CCU/CSU "rivalry" sort-of kicked up I think at that time (and I was trying to help it along), but since then I think CCU's big rival is now Liberty.

[asumike83]

If it's basd on road record.....doesn't CCU have it wrapped up?

Both SBU and Liberty have road losses....

For some reason this doesn't make sense to me.

They need Liberty to win as well so it is a 3-way tie breaker, which they would win. If Liberty loses then Coastal and Stony Brook would tie. Stony Brook beat CCU so they would get the auto-bid in that case.

[walliver]

It is crazy to pick a champion based on who plays VMI and Presbyterian on the road instead of at-home.

It would better for them just to pull straws or play a round robin of rock, paper, and scissors.

Their final tiebreak scenario is the Sagarin ratings, which rewards teams for LOSING to good teams.

It is especially important to have a meaningful tiebreaker since the Big South rarely receives at-large bids.

[rokamortis]

The Big South went from one terrible tiebreaker rule to another. This tiebreaker is decided by whether or not you have games against the tough teams at your place so losses don't matter. Another genius solution from Kommish Kyle. At some point they have to look at handling these 3-way ties through aggregate scoring of the tied parties (something I-AA Scribe mentioned back when the change was made back in the day). In the meantime, Coastal can thank the schedule-makers for handing them the auto bid.

Old school AGSers remember the last time CCU & CSU met with a playoff berth on the line was 2007. That game was legendary on this board for the crazy outcome.

Defensive points was probably better than this tiebreaker, still not good but better. You are right, Coastal is fortunate to have the easier games scheduled away this year.

Super Safety was 2005.

[Libertine]

The bolded part is incorrect. The number of points Coastal scored in the game against CSU was irrelevant in the defensive points allowed statistic. Because the tiebreaker was points allowed and not scored. The only thing Coastal could do to ahve an impact on the tiebreaker was limit the points scored against them during that game - which was 3.

This is correct. Coastal did nothing out of the ordinary offensively and still ran off 70 that day. Coastal did leave their starters in on defense -- and righly so, given the circumstances -- but their defense was averaging 28pts against. I think Coastal was clearly the better team but CSU, who had just put up 21 and 42 at Kentucky and Presbyterian respectively, laid down like dead grass that day. There are various conspiracy theories as to why they did but it wasn't exactly the kind of thriller that we have come to expect from CSU-CCU -- the craziest of which, Sly Fox, was in 2005 not 2007.

[rokamortis]

This is correct. Coastal did nothing out of the ordinary offensively and still ran off 70 that day. Coastal did leave their starters in on defense -- and righly so, given the circumstances -- but their defense was averaging 28pts against. I think Coastal was clearly the better team but CSU, who had just put up 21 and 42 at Kentucky and Presbyterian respectively, laid down like dead grass that day. There are various conspiracy theories as to why they did but it wasn't exactly the kind of thriller that we have come to expect from CSU-CCU -- the craziest of which, Sly Fox, was in 2005 not 2007.

Really? I didn't realize there were conspiracy theories. Do tell!

[Sly Fox]

I apologize for my poor recollection of dates. But I certainly can remember listening to that play via Matt Hogue over the internet and laughing hysterically. Daggummit.

[ITmonarch10]

I got my information from the Big South Website. Its just old. Oddly enough it ws the first thing that came up on Google for me.
http://www.bigsouthsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4800&ATCLID=205024781

[URMite]

...

[furpal87]

One question: How does head to head not solve a two way tie?

[PantherRob82]

One question: How does head to head not solve a two way tie?

It does.

[bodoyle]

I still feel dirty for cheering for Liberty last week and again this coming week, but if it means we can get into the playoffs, I'll just have to take a few extra showers to get the stink of Liberty off me ;)

Great win by them this past weekend. Randy, myself and Ole Poot were driving home from the CCU/Presbyterian carnage and watching the game on Randy's phone. I think we scared Ole Poot and almost made him swerve a few times when Liberty picked off Stony Brook 2x.

[knucklehead]

Bo, come on, you know you love LU. Hey, I feel great about cheering for CSU this week. Go Fighting Jay Millses BEATCOASTAL!!!! LU will take care of VMI. If Coastal loses, then LU will back door into the playoffs and SBU will not get an At Large. That is if the committee uses the same logic they used on an LU team in the same circumstances 2 or 3 times when we were left out. Kyle K. would cry for weeks if this happened.

[bodoyle]

knuckle: I love LU as much as I love a root canal. Last week and this week are different though. I sent SuperJon a text saying I love Liberty. I think I rendered him speechless b/c I never got a response haha.

CCU is very fortunate that you guys play before us this weekend so we know if our game matters or not. We will have 2 laptops, speakers, and monitors to stream your game at our tailgate. Good luck!

I think we are both ok with KK crying - he is such a douche.