Patriot, Ivy Leagues not allowed I-A games

[Umass74]

I've been lurking on some Patriot League message boards (Colgate mostly) and their fans have been saying that they wished Colgate or other PL or Ivy teams would schedule Army, Navy or some other I-A team.

The Boston Globe has an article here (http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/football/articles/2006/08/11/future_schedules_will_feature_familiar_foes/) about Boston College scheduling New England I-AA teams.

The relavent quote from the article is "Asked about the possibility of renewing ties with another old rival, Holy Cross, DeFilippo said it was not likely. ``The problem is, the 1-AA teams you play have to offer at least 60 scholarships in order for it to count towards your win total," DeFilippo explained. ``That's why we can't do anything with Holy Cross or Harvard right now, because they only do need-based scholarships."

[DFW HOYA]

That's not accurate. PL teams can schedule I-A games (and have), but until PL teams reach the 60 equivalency level they will not count towards the I-A opponent's bowl requirements. As discussed to great lengths earlier, three are at or above the 50 range, three PL schools are near the 50 equivalency range, and one is not even close, so 60 is not beyond the realm of possibility at some point for some PL schools in the future if that's a goal.

Recent I-A vs. PL games have included Army-Holy Cross, Lehigh-Buffalo, and Kent-Bucknell, to name a few, so it certainly can be done. Besides, asking a BC official to speak objectively about Holy Cross (or even the Big East) is an exercise in futility.

[henfan]

"Asked about the possibility of renewing ties with another old rival, Holy Cross, DeFilippo said it was not likely. ``The problem is, the 1-AA teams you play have to offer at least 60 scholarships in order for it to count towards your win total," DeFilippo explained. ``That's why we can't do anything with Holy Cross or Harvard right now, because they only do need-based scholarships."

DeFilippo and the Globe come off as clueless as ever.:read:

[Pard4Life]

That's not accurate. PL teams can schedule I-A games (and have), but until PL teams reach the 60 equivalency level they will not count towards the I-A opponent's bowl requirements. As discussed to great lengths earlier, three are at or above the 50 range, three PL schools are near the 50 equivalency range, and one is not even close, so 60 is not beyond the realm of possibility at some point for some PL schools in the future if that's a goal.

Recent I-A vs. PL games have included Army-Holy Cross, Lehigh-Buffalo, and Kent-Bucknell, to name a few, so it certainly can be done. Besides, asking a BC official to speak objectively about Holy Cross (or even the Big East) is an exercise in futility.

Add a fourth team at 50+... Fordham... but yes the comment is bogus as cited by examples above. Also.. Colgate-Buffalo, Lehigh-UConn.. the list goes on...

[kardplayer]

While the comment (scholarships vs. need-based) may be way off, there's a big difference between BCS hopeful Boston College scheduling a PL/Ivy team and hurting their bowl chances and Buffalo or Army doing it when they have no bowl prayers whatsoever ...

[carney2]

the 1-AA teams you play have to offer at least 60 scholarships in order for it to count towards your win total

Accepting this as a true statement, do they have to be athletic "scholarships," or do, as someone else has hinted, "equivalencies" count?

[Fordham]

Gracias for including us, Pard4! ;)

And did something change for I-A's when they were allowed their 12th game that might have put this restriction in place now but not have effected the PL v. I-A games from previous years?

Regardless, I would agree with kard that some schools may still schedule them if they're far off the bowl game radar. Overall, though, it does seem that this should be a consideration for PL teams as 'we' make the scholly decision and whether or not it matters to teams like Colgate to try to renew games with teams like Syracuse & Rutgers.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Aren't I-As still allowed to play a I-AA game once every two years anyway, even if it's under 60 equivs and have it count? That was the way it used to work, I thought...

You get the sense that BC's coach hasn't given an ounce of thought to their old rivalry, focusing instead on all these "great" rivalries he gets with Duke and NC State... :rolleyes: Why not play Holy Cross every once in a while and play a game in the Boston area for a change? Would it really kill you? :rolleyes:

[colgate13]

Equivalencies are the same as scholarships, so that's not the issue. It's that we are all borderline counters, and there are plenty of willing I-AA teams to schedule, so why take the risk with a PL team?

[dbackjon]

To be a counter, the level is 90% of the max, or 57. And I-A can count one per year now.

[ucdtim17]

Aren't I-As still allowed to play a I-AA game once every two years anyway, even if it's under 60 equivs and have it count? That was the way it used to work, I thought...


It's once every 4 years, and I think that is still the case. If Stanford had beaten UCD last year, they could have used that to be bowl-eligible. UCD is the only I-AA they've played since 1991 when they beat Columbia something like 52-0

[Marcus Garvey]

Filippo may be an idiot, but he's right about BC not scheduling Harvard or Holy Cross. BC is now good enough that they need a team every year that can count toward bowl eligibility. With 5 other I-AA teams in New England that count, why schedule Ivy or Patriot teams.

Now, if you're Buffalo or Army and simply trying to build a program, scheduling Ivy or Patriot leage opponents is a good idea.

[Pard4Life]

Filippo may be an idiot, but he's right about BC not scheduling Harvard or Holy Cross. BC is now good enough that they need a team every year that can count toward bowl eligibility. With 5 other I-AA teams in New England that count, why schedule Ivy or Patriot teams.

Now, if you're Buffalo or Army and simply trying to build a program, scheduling Ivy or Patriot leage opponents is a good idea.

Why? If you lose you are a laughingstock... i.e. Buffalo... they'd finish in the middle of the PL.. how can you recruit with such losses?

[colgate13]

I don't think UB would finish in the middle of the PL. Keep in mind the team in 2003 that beat them...

They are an 85 scholarship team and should beat PL teams. That's why they should be scheduled.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Filippo may be an idiot, but he's right about BC not scheduling Harvard or Holy Cross. BC is now good enough that they need a team every year that can count toward bowl eligibility. With 5 other I-AA teams in New England that count, why schedule Ivy or Patriot teams.

Now, if you're Buffalo or Army and simply trying to build a program, scheduling Ivy or Patriot leage opponents is a good idea.

The reason is BC and Holy Cross in the past had a long-standing and bitter rivalry. They've played each other 83 times, and when Holy Cross went 11-0 as a I-AA independent they beat BC that year (the "Gordie Lockbaum" team).

There's no history between Harvard and BC, but Holy Cross/BC would be a huge game for the Boston area and would be very well attended. BC/Northeastern, BC/UNH or BC/UMass would count for bowl eligibility, but none of those games are real "rivalry games" that a Holy Cross game would be.

[Pard4Life]

The reason is BC and Holy Cross in the past had a long-standing and bitter rivalry. They've played each other 83 times, and when Holy Cross went 11-0 as a I-AA independent they beat BC that year (the "Gordie Lockbaum" team).

There's no history between Harvard and BC, but Holy Cross/BC would be a huge game for the Boston area and would be very well attended. BC/Northeastern, BC/UNH or BC/UMass would count for bowl eligibility, but none of those games are real "rivalry games" that a Holy Cross game would be.

The last BC game was 1986, I think just before the Lackbaum era. In any case, Holy Cross didn't win a game going back to the late 1970s I believe. So even if Gordie was a rookie or soph, BC still won.

[Go...gate]

The last BC game was 1986, I think just before the Lackbaum era. In any case, Holy Cross didn't win a game going back to the late 1970s I believe. So even if Gordie was a rookie or soph, BC still won.

You are thinking of 1986, which was Lockbaum's junior year. Unfortunately, BC won 56-26 (HC actually led 14-0, after the first quarter) in a quagmire at Fitton that day, after which BC dropped Holy Cross. HC also lost in '84 (Flutie's senior year) and '85. I believe that HC had not beaten BC since 1978 or 1980 at the time the series concluded.

[UAalum72]

It's once every 4 years, and I think that is still the case. If Stanford had beaten UCD last year, they could have used that to be bowl-eligible. UCD is the only I-AA they've played since 1991 when they beat Columbia something like 52-0

No, the rule was changed in 2005.

http://www.ncaa.org/library/membership/division_i_manual/2006-07/2006-07_d1_manual.pdf

20.9.7.2.1 Exception — Division I-AA Opponent. Each year, a Division I-A institution may count one contest against a Division I-AA opponent to satisfy the football scheduling requirement specified in Bylaw 20.9.7.2, provided the Division I-AA opponent has averaged 90 percent
of the permissible maximum number of grants-in-aid per year in Division I-AA football over a rolling two-year period. (Adopted: 4/28/05)

90% of 63 = 56.7

[Go...gate]

No, the rule was changed in 2005.

http://www.ncaa.org/library/membership/division_i_manual/2006-07/2006-07_d1_manual.pdf

20.9.7.2.1 Exception — Division I-AA Opponent. Each year, a Division I-A institution may count one contest against a Division I-AA opponent to satisfy the football scheduling requirement specified in Bylaw 20.9.7.2, provided the Division I-AA opponent has averaged 90 percent
of the permissible maximum number of grants-in-aid per year in Division I-AA football over a rolling two-year period. (Adopted: 4/28/05)

90% of 63 = 56.7

Are "grants-in-aid" to be interpreted as the traditional "scholarship" model?

[ucdtim17]

No, the rule was changed in 2005.

http://www.ncaa.org/library/membership/division_i_manual/2006-07/2006-07_d1_manual.pdf

20.9.7.2.1 Exception — Division I-AA Opponent. Each year, a Division I-A institution may count one contest against a Division I-AA opponent to satisfy the football scheduling requirement specified in Bylaw 20.9.7.2, provided the Division I-AA opponent has averaged 90 percent
of the permissible maximum number of grants-in-aid per year in Division I-AA football over a rolling two-year period. (Adopted: 4/28/05)

90% of 63 = 56.7

I know that rule changed, but I thought they could still count one non-counter I-AA win once every 4 years.