Stony Brook and Lehigh add to playoff selection mess

[ITmonarch10]

Today Stony Brook lost to Liberty and are now in a 3 way tie for 1st in the Big South. Maybe I'm wrong but I think Coastal Carolina might end up representing the Big South.














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(4) Stony Brook

14

Final



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Liberty

28








In addition, Lehigh Lost to Colgate making Colgate the Patriot league Champ
















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Colgate

35

Final



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(9) Lehigh

24










This will make Lehigh and Stony Brook with decent positioning in the polls and 10-1/9-1 records at the end of the season against fcs teams. Do you guys think 1 or both the teams make the playoffs?


The list of possible playoff losers in this situation *Note it also looking increasingly likely a 2nd team from the OVC will make the playoffs*
Wofford or Socon 3rd team
Towson or CAA 4th team
Sacramento St/Cal Poly or Big Sky 4th/5th team
And Very Unlikely but Sam Houston could be effected by this committee prioritizes 8 wins over strength of schedule.

[ecasadoSBU]

Congrats to Liberty in their well deserved victory. While I believe my team didn't show up tonight still gotta give credit to Liberty for playing hard. Liberty is not easy to beat at home and this is proof

[RichH2]

Bound to ne a lot of disappointed fans this yr. There are going to ne a number left out who have decent arguments to be in.

[PantherRob82]

I think SBU should still get an at large.

I don't think Lehigh should, but they most likely will.

[LehighU11]

Lehigh will be 10-1 if they win at Lafayette. Stony Brook is 9-2. Lehigh beat Liberty in Lynchburg, while SBU lost. IF there is an available spot for an at-large from either the PL or Big South, then I think Lehigh would have an edge due to that common opponent. Win over a bad Army team, close loss to Syracuse, win over Colgate could sway the committee to pick SBU, given Lehigh's close wins over weak teams. Tough choice. I think the playoffs aren't going to happen for Lehigh this year, and I will not be outraged.

[danefan]

If Lehigh gets an at-large, it will be one of the weakest at-large resumes ever.

Zero good wins and a loss in a bottom rung conference.

I'm not opining on whether they should or shouldn't, but what is the rationale?

I think both teams may be sitting home.......

[theasushow]

NAU just went down as well.

[van]

I think SBU should still get an at large.

I don't think Lehigh should, but they most likely will.

Ah, that whooping in the UNI dome still smarts I see!:p

[skinny_uncle]

EIU clinched the OVC today. Does EKU still get in as an at-large?

[ecasadoSBU]

Stony Brook beat Colgate. Colgate beats lehigh. Another common opponent... And its just as significant. I still feel like SBU has a chance. Army beat Air Force and Boston College. Syracuse just defeated #9 undefeated Louisville today so that helps.

[Sly Fox]

Lehigh & Stony Brook is an interesting discussion. Both split game with their common opponents: Liberty & Colgate.

[frozennorth]

sbu should absolutely be in, lehigh should be out.

[dudeitsaid]

NAU just went down as well.

And they play Cal Poly next week. That will be a tough game for them. If they lose that game, they will not win the autobid, and will only have 7 D1 wins. Probably will be left out in that situation, and if that happens, I see only MSU, EWU, and Cal Poly making the field this year. If they beat Cal Poly, does the Big Sky get 4 in at the demise of Lehigh or Stony Brook? Hmmm. Cal Poly, EWU, MSU, and NAU would all have 8 or more D1 wins.

[Engineer86]

And they play Cal Poly next week. That will be a tough game for them. If they lose that game, they will not win the autobid, and will only have 7 D1 wins. Probably will be left out in that situation, and if that happens, I see only MSU, EWU, and Cal Poly making the field this year. If they beat Cal Poly, does the Big Sky get 4 in at the demise of Lehigh or Stony Brook? Hmmm. Cal Poly, EWU, MSU, and NAU would all have 8 or more D1 wins.

IF Lehigh and Stoney Brook win and NAU loses. NAU is out in my opinion.

[RichH2]

I've almost reached the point where even at 10 wins, .I hope we stay home and get coaches out recruiting.

[ecasadoSBU]

Stony Brook's loss sets up a great first round Matchup between SBU and the autbid of the NEC (Wagner/Albany) at LaValle Stadium. Its going to happen!

[Pard4Life]

Lehigh will be 10-1 if they win at Lafayette. Stony Brook is 9-2. Lehigh beat Liberty in Lynchburg, while SBU lost. IF there is an available spot for an at-large from either the PL or Big South, then I think Lehigh would have an edge due to that common opponent. Win over a bad Army team, close loss to Syracuse, win over Colgate could sway the committee to pick SBU, given Lehigh's close wins over weak teams. Tough choice. I think the playoffs aren't going to happen for Lehigh this year, and I will not be outraged.

I agree. The Colgate, Stony Brook games are a wash, but SBU may still have an edge there because Colgate is a league champion. Army must count for something and definitely more than Lehigh's wins. It will be interesting if it comes down to 10-1 Lehigh, 9-2 SBU, and NAU. And Lehigh's 36 GPI does not help. Nobody wanted to hear it last week, but seriously, losses to CU and LC may leave LU at home... committee looks at a how you finish.

[Engineer86]

I agree. The Colgate, Stony Brook games are a wash, but SBU may still have an edge there because Colgate is a league champion. Army must count for something and definitely more than Lehigh's wins. It will be interesting if it comes down to 10-1 Lehigh, 9-2 SBU, and NAU. And Lehigh's 36 GPI does not help. Nobody wanted to hear it last week, but seriously, losses to CU and LC may leave LU at home... committee looks at a how you finish.

A loss to LC definitely leaves LU home. A win and an NUA loss and Advantage Lehigh

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Both teams should be in the playoffs providing they win out. SBU has a FBS win, that should count for some major selection points. The PL isn't weak. Any team can drop a game, Lehigh can and should make the playoffs this year.

[Seawolf97]

Our bye week is next week so all we can do is sit and watch. The Flames came into this game with a good plan and executed it well today. We just were out played by the better the team . Congrats to Liberty. Hope we play you again as an OOC game one of these days.

[LehighGuy]

Can we all be reasonable for second? To the people who think a 10-1 Lehigh will NOT get an at-large bid:

Do you understand how unprecedented it would be to shaft a 10 win team from an auto-bid conference with strong playoff showings for the past 10 years?

If you think the committee is going to conduct some kind of granular examination of how Lehigh won it's games and study the relative strength of all their opponents compared to last year, you're delusional. They create this field in like 3 hours. A 10 win Lehigh who made it to the second round of the playoffs last year isn't even a discussion.

[theasushow]

well i guess that settles that.

[WrenFGun]

Can we all be reasonable for second? To the people who think a 10-1 Lehigh will NOT get an at-large bid:

Do you understand how unprecedented it would be to shaft a 10 win team from an auto-bid conference with strong playoff showings for the past 10 years?

If you think the committee is going to conduct some kind of granular examination of how Lehigh won it's games and study the relative strength of all their opponents compared to last year, you're delusional. They create this field in like 3 hours. A 10 win Lehigh who made it to the second round of the playoffs last year isn't even a discussion.

I tend to think one of SBU or Lehigh will still get in. The question is whether a win over the BS champion is more impressive than a win over the PL champ. I really have no idea. That said, how can Lehigh be above SBU when they don't have an FBS win? Now if things shake out both will get in but ugh.

There could literally be six teams from the CAA between 8-3 and 7-4. Good grief. UNH better win Saturday.

[DSUrocks07]

If Lehigh is counting on their pedigree to make the field...let's just say they better win against Lafayette convincingly.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I can easily see a scenario where both Lehigh and SBU get in:

ODU 10-1
UNH 9-2 (autobid champion)

Villanova 7-4
JMU 7-4
Richmond 7-4

You cannot tell me the committee would take two 7 D-I win teams over Lehigh and SBU.

[wapiti]

Lehigh stands a good chance of being left out and will for sure if they struggle against Lafeyette.

Lehigh has had too many close calls against much lesser* opponents.

*Teams not even close to being ranked.

Strength of schedule plays a factor in the commitee's decisions.

[WrenFGun]

I can easily see a scenario where both Lehigh and SBU get in:

ODU 10-1
UNH 9-2 (autobid champion)

Villanova 7-4
JMU 7-4
Richmond 7-4

You cannot tell me the committee would take to 7 D-I win teams over Lehigh and SBU.

100% agree. The problem is that two of those three teams are favorites to get to 8-3; also consider that Towson would be red hot if they beat UNH and then you have a six way cluster****. Just no way to know. I think a lot of teams should be rooting for UNH to take care of business and separate the CAA out.

[App1928]

Both teams should be in the playoffs providing they win out. SBU has a FBS win, that should count for some major selection points. The PL isn't weak. Any team can drop a game, Lehigh can and should make the playoffs this year.

You are smoking crack....if they cant win those crappy leauges neither deserves the playoffs....quality teams could fail to make the playoffs because we let teams like this in....that being said....SB has a FAR more impressive resume than Lehigh....but that also being said...SB still plays an incredibly weak schedule....

[LehighGuy]

You are smoking crack....if they cant win those crappy leauges neither deserves the playoffs....quality teams could fail to make the playoffs because we let teams like this in....that being said....SB has a FAR more impressive resume than Lehigh....but that also being said...SB still plays an incredibly weak schedule....

There's two types of people on these boards:

1.) Kool-Aid drinkers who think Lehigh deserves to be in the playoffs.

2.) Kool-Aid drinkers who think they won't be there. (assuming 10 wins)

[FargoBison]

SBU should be in, I'm on the fence about Lehigh.

[ngineer]

If Lehigh gets an at-large, it will be one of the weakest at-large resumes ever.

Zero good wins and a loss in a bottom rung conference.

I'm not opining on whether they should or shouldn't, but what is the rationale?

I think both teams may be sitting home.......

As seen today, beating Liberty in Lynchburg is a "good" win. Wins over Princeton and Fordham who have shown to be good teams, and a win at Lafayette in "The Rivalry" game will be seen as 'good.' I will agree there is a fine line between a lot of teams and many are on the bubble. If we don't get selected despite beating Lafayette, we have only ourselves to blame, however, by allowing someone else to make the decision.

[Wallace]

Can we all be reasonable for second? To the people who think a 10-1 Lehigh will NOT get an at-large bid:

Do you understand how unprecedented it would be to shaft a 10 win team from an auto-bid conference with strong playoff showings for the past 10 years?

If you think the committee is going to conduct some kind of granular examination of how Lehigh won it's games and study the relative strength of all their opponents compared to last year, you're delusional.

You do understand the past has nothing to do with this year's tournament field? The committee DOES a granular examination and has been doing it for weeks now. Strength of schedule is a BIG factor and they don't compare it to last year. Given that, there is always one goofy pick the committee makes so we shall see. I think you have a game left to win right?

[WileECoyote06]

A 10 win team from an autobid conference will not be left out of the playoffs. i'll put an NCCU t-shirt on that.

[ITmonarch10]

Lehigh and Stony Brook fans consider beating each others conference champions to be good wins. The problem I have is that both champions got beat by the bottom feeders of other conferences. Which greatly cheapens the wins for me.

[theasushow]

if Lehigh would have taken care of business today we wouldnt even be talking about it, but they didnt, and therefore their inclusion is going to be questioned. I think most teams that are considered a lock would have taken colgate to the woodshed.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

if Lehigh would have taken care of business today we wouldnt even be talking about it, but they didnt, and therefore their inclusion is going to be questioned. I think most teams that are considered a lock would have taken colgate to the woodshed.

You obviously didn't watch the game.

[FargoBison]

Colgate lost to the worst team in the MVFC. That fact, coupled with a weak SOS makes it hard for me to say Lehigh should get in over an 8-3 team. I'd have no issue them getting in over a 7-4 team but this year the field is just so strong we are talking about 8-3 teams getting left out.

[MSUBobcat]

As seen today, beating Liberty in Lynchburg is a "good" win. Wins over Princeton and Fordham who have shown to be good teams, and a win at Lafayette in "The Rivalry" game will be seen as 'good.' I will agree there is a fine line between a lot of teams and many are on the bubble. If we don't get selected despite beating Lafayette, we have only ourselves to blame, however, by allowing someone else to make the decision.

I'm still not convinced beating Liberty is a "good" win considering the Griz, in a down year, destroyed them. Granted it was at home compared to away, but UM is probably the 6-7 best team in the BSC. Princeton is 5-4 in the IVY league so it's hard to gauge if this is a good team. Yes they beat Harvard, but so did Penn today, who also beat Princeton. Fordham is 6-4 but who have they really beaten? Cornell, Lafayette? I'd probably have the Griz as favorites in every game Lehigh has played and they haven't been in playoff consideration in a month. xtwocentsx That said, and as unfortunate as it is for the NAU/Poly loser, I think Lehigh is in at 10-1, even though the team that beat them lost to the WORST team from a "power" conference. Why couldn't they have just won and not steal a spot from a more deserving team.xcoolx

[FargoBison]

IMO it would be criminal if either team got in over an 8-3 Indiana State team.

[theasushow]

You obviously didn't watch the game.

No I didn't, and even if I am underestimating Colgate (which is entirely possible) the fact still remains that had Lehigh won today, this wouldn't be a discussion. If ASU and Wofford lost today I am sure that a "ASU, Wofford on the bubble" thread would have immediately started, but they both took care of business on the field.

[LehighGuy]

IMO it would be criminal if either team got in over an 8-3 Indiana State team.

If Lehigh drops Lafayette, you better call the police.

[MSUBobcat]

You obviously didn't watch the game.

What exactly do you need to watch the game for? Based on how Lehigh has kept weak opponents in games, even if 'Gate looked great, that doesn't mean a whole lot. Looking good against an average team doesn't make you good. For example (exaggerated), if you watched Idaho State beat up on Black Hills State you might think they weren't that bad, but playing decent teams, they have yet to hold them to under 49 pts.

[Wallace]

Massey's SoS going into this week:

66. Stony Brook, Big South
67. Bucknell, Patriot League
68. Colgate, Patriot League
69. Penn, Ivy League
70. Princeton, Ivy League
71. St Francis, Northeast
72. S Carolina St, Mid-Eastern AC
73. Robert Morris, Northeast
74. Cornell, Ivy League
75. Sacred Heart, Northeast
76. Wagner, Northeast
77. Fordham, Patriot League
78. Bryant, Northeast
79. Monmouth, Northeast
80. Georgetown, Patriot League
81. Columbia, Ivy League
82. Yale, Ivy League
83. Lafayette, Patriot League
84. Brown, Ivy League
85. Harvard, Ivy League
86. Bethune-Cookman, Mid-Eastern AC
87. Liberty, Big South
88. Dartmouth, Ivy League
89. Lehigh, Patriot League

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What exactly do you need to watch the game for? Based on how Lehigh has kept weak opponents in games, even if 'Gate looked great, that doesn't mean a whole lot. Looking good against an average team doesn't make you good. For example (exaggerated), if you watched Idaho State beat up on Black Hills State you might think they weren't that bad, but playing decent teams, they have yet to hold them to under 49 pts.

Colgate is not a weak opponent. Any fool who has seen Colgate in the last four weeks knows this. Ask our Lafayette friends when the Raiders dropped 65 on them. I don't know what happened to them against USD, but the Colgate team I saw today was a damned good team. Better than Liberty.

[FargoBison]

Yep Lehigh should be in over the one team that beat NDSU and they crushed the team that beat Colgate. That makes sense because they are 10-1, if Indiana State had that schedule they would be 11-0.

I won't even have Lehigh in my top 20. They'll be ranked but I'm a massive skeptic and have been all season.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Massey's SoS going into this week:

66. Stony Brook, Big South
67. Bucknell, Patriot League
68. Colgate, Patriot League
69. Penn, Ivy League
70. Princeton, Ivy League
71. St Francis, Northeast
72. S Carolina St, Mid-Eastern AC
73. Robert Morris, Northeast
74. Cornell, Ivy League
75. Sacred Heart, Northeast
76. Wagner, Northeast
77. Fordham, Patriot League
78. Bryant, Northeast
79. Monmouth, Northeast
80. Georgetown, Patriot League
81. Columbia, Ivy League
82. Yale, Ivy League
83. Lafayette, Patriot League
84. Brown, Ivy League
85. Harvard, Ivy League
86. Bethune-Cookman, Mid-Eastern AC
87. Liberty, Big South
88. Dartmouth, Ivy League
89. Lehigh, Patriot League

And yet, it won't matter.

[Wallace]

And yet, it won't matter.

Better beat Lafayette by more than 3, which is the usual margin of victory for Lehigh. Oh yeah, and pray! xcoffeex

[ngineer]

Lehigh and Stony Brook fans consider beating each others conference champions to be good wins. The problem I have is that both champions got beat by the bottom feeders of other conferences. Which greatly cheapens the wins for me.

Understood if the loss was recent. But it was the second week of September and teams are allowed to get better as the season goes on. There current way a team is playing carries a lot more weight than a stubbed toe in September.

[LehighGuy]

I won't even have Lehigh in my top 20. They'll be ranked but I'm a massive skeptic and have been all season.


Better beat Lafayette by more than 3, which is the usual margin of victory for Lehigh. Oh yeah, and pray! xcoffeex

Please show me a 10-1 team from an auto-bid conference in FCS history that didn't make the playoffs.

[Wallace]

There current way a team is playing carries a lot more weight than a stubbed toe in September.

True, which makes SBU and Lehigh's losses today even more significant.

[MSUBobcat]

Colgate is not a weak opponent. Any fool who has seen Colgate in the last four weeks knows this. Ask our Lafayette friends when the Raiders dropped 65 on them. I don't know what happened to them against USD, but the Colgate team I saw today was a damned good team. Better than Liberty.

xrolleyesx Another team that was beaten (handily) by a team whose playoff aspirations went out the window at least 3 weeks ago. So Lehigh lost to a "damned good team" that lost to the WORST MVFC team (I've heard, slow startersxblahx) and beat the newly crowned Big South powerhouse Liberty (who got smoked by the 6th place Griz, Liberty is a slow starter too right?)

I fully expect Lehigh to get in, but I wonder if they are better than the team that just misses the cut.

[Wallace]

Please show me a 10-1 team from an auto-bid conference in FCS history that didn't make the playoffs.

THE PAST DOES NOT MATTER. JUST BEAT LAFAYETTE HANDILY AND HOPE.

[theasushow]

xpopcornx

[FargoBison]

Please show me a 10-1 team from an auto-bid conference in FCS history that didn't make the playoffs.

Has a team that hasn't beaten or played a single top-25 team gotten an at-large before?

[MSUBobcat]

Understood if the loss was recent. But it was the second week of September and teams are allowed to get better as the season goes on. There current way a team is playing carries a lot more weight than a stubbed toe in September.

Playoff calibre teams don't "stub their toe" against the likes of USD and to a lesser degree UM.

[FargoBison]

I'm sure some Lehigh fans don't like my comments but I've said the same things to fans of MEAC teams, OVC teams and Pioneer teams. I don't have a lot of compassion for teams that don't schedule tough.

[LehighGuy]

THE PAST DOES NOT MATTER.

Let's get this straight. Empirical evidence and precedent holds no bearing on the actions of the committee? They just behave erratically from year to year with no consistency, guidelines, or order? We have data to construct a quasi-model of what might happen based on years past, but we can't use it?

You starting to sound like one of those people who think the earth is 3,000 years old.

[theasushow]

The past matters when it comes to $$$$$$$ which is why ASU always hosts a first round game...whether they deserve it or not.

[Wallace]

They just behave erratically from year to year with no consistency, guidelines, or order?

They work with guidelines which say choose the best teams OF THIS YEAR.

[Wallace]

The past matters when it comes to $$$$$$$ which is why ASU always hosts a first round game...whether they deserve it or not.

Money matters when selecting hosts of non-seeded teams based on this year's submitted bids. Nothing about the past matters.

[FargoBison]

If Lehigh drops Lafayette, you better call the police.

You do realize that the first thing the MVFC rep is going to do when Lehigh is discussed is say that the worst team in the MVFC beat the PL Champ. The playoff committee has left teams out with weak schedules and gaudy records before and with a very strong crop of at-large teams Lehigh could very well be left out.

[ngineer]

Let's get this straight. Empirical evidence and precedent holds no bearing on the actions of the committee? They just behave erratically from year to year with no consistency, guidelines, or order? We have data to construct a quasi-model of what might happen based on years past, but we can't use it?

You starting to sound like one of those people who think the earth is 3,000 years old.

That's why there is the "Wofford" Award (;-)

[ngineer]

Playoff calibre teams don't "stub their toe" against the likes of USD and to a lesser degree UM.

Colgate was not a playoff calibre team in early September, and while USD is 1-9, five losses were by 1 score, with four of them by 3 points. Some years, the close games go the 'wrong' way. We can try and analyze everone's opponents, but everyone's schedule contains curious results, lucky and unlucky breaks, bad calls, etc. So while some say Lehigh's 9-1 is meaningless, so can a record that is 1-9. There are a lot of good teams out there with not enough slots. Any team that has left its chances to the whims of "The Committee" has no reason to bitch if they aren't selected because they failed to do their own job of winning their conference.

[MSUBobcat]

Let's get this straight. Empirical evidence and precedent holds no bearing on the actions of the committee? They just behave erratically from year to year with no consistency, guidelines, or order? We have data to construct a quasi-model of what might happen based on years past, but we can't use it?

You starting to sound like one of those people who think the earth is 3,000 years old.

They behave fairly consistent which is why us fans can usually predict at least 80-90% of the field quite easily (though there are head scratchers occasionally). They have guidelines which are AQ followed by a minimum 7 DI wins. Not sure what you mean by the model of what might happen based on years past, as college players have this thing called graduation (or years of eligibility for some playersxlolx), but for the most part the past doesn't matter. A team like Sam will get in with only 7 DI wins even though the field has many strong contenders with 8 wins, but getting shut out in the quarterfinals last year doesn't buy you much goodwill for playoffs this year.

[Appattk]

Any team that has left its chances to the whims of "The Committee" has no reason to bitch if they aren't selected because they failed to do their own job of winning their conference.

Exactly.. Especially if they scheduled themselves into the hole they're in..

[LehighGuy]

Has a team that hasn't beaten or played a single top-25 team gotten an at-large before?

Lehigh in 2004. Went 9-2 and even lost to LAUGH-ayette. Only ranked team we played was Villanova and we lost.

EDIT: Oh, and by some act of God we got a home game out of it. So, there's that.

[MSUBobcat]

Colgate was not a playoff calibre team in early September, and while USD is 1-9, five losses were by 1 score, with four of them by 3 points. Some years, the close games go the 'wrong' way. We can try and analyze everone's opponents, but everyone's schedule contains curious results, lucky and unlucky breaks, bad calls, etc. So while some say Lehigh's 9-1 is meaningless, so can a record that is 1-9. There are a lot of good teams out there with not enough slots. Any team that has left its chances to the whims of "The Committee" has no reason to bitch if they aren't selected because they failed to do their own job of winning their conference.

+1. Handle it on the field and eliminate all doubt. I think we are in somewhat agreement that USD isn't awful, (though good teams win the close ones, while so-so teams are 1-9) but that makes the point of the worst team in the MVFC beating the PL champ all the more valid, IMO. It just puts LU in a spot where it looks like a whole CONFERENCE would beat them. I get that Colgate isn't the same as at the start of the year, but NO team is. With rosters rotating every 4 years or less, every team has growing pains to start the year, and talent is what wins those games.

[LehighGuy]

They behave fairly consistent which is why us fans can usually predict at least 80-90% of the field quite easily (though there are head scratchers occasionally). They have guidelines which are AQ followed by a minimum 7 DI wins. Not sure what you mean by the model of what might happen based on years past, as college players have this thing called graduation (or years of eligibility for some playersxlolx), but for the most part the past doesn't matter. A team like Sam will get in with only 7 DI wins even though the field has many strong contenders with 8 wins, but getting shut out in the quarterfinals last year doesn't buy you much goodwill for playoffs this year.

I understand what you are saying, but passing over an 8 win team for a 7 win team is a far cry from passing over a 10 win team. If that happens it would be completely unprecedented, which leads me to believe it won't.

It's just logical.

[MSUBobcat]

I understand what you are saying, but passing over an 8 win team for a 7 win team is a far cry from passing over a 10 win team. If that happens it would be completely unprecedented, which leads me to believe it won't.

It's just logical.

I've said numerous times that I fully expect the committee to take Lehigh. I just think it might be at the expense of an 8 DI-win team from a power conference that would likely beat Lehigh. Basically a good record against a weak schedule will get them in over a team that would beat them more often than not due to that team facing tough competition and not winning. And that's on them also. Win your games and take it out of the committee's hands.

[LehighGuy]

I've said numerous times that I fully expect the committee to take Lehigh. I just think it might be at the expense of an 8 DI-win team from a power conference that would likely beat Lehigh. Basically a good record against a weak schedule will get them in over a team that would beat them more often than not due to that team facing tough competition and not winning. And that's on them also. Win your games and take it out of the committee's hands.

Get ready for it.......I agree with you.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Exactly.. Especially if they scheduled themselves into the hole they're in..

I really take exception when people talk about Lehigh's schedule, as if Lehigh is purposefully scheduling cupcakes for the sole purpose of... what? Making the playoffs? Lehigh scheduled two NEC teams, one which was a late replacement for (if I remember right) Villanova, who dropped our series with them because they perceive that it's too great a possibility that they lose to us. They scheduled Ivy teams, whose schedules are pre-set years in advance, and are consistently a part of Patriot League schedules. They did schedule Liberty, who is always a playoff-caliber team and still is alive for the Bog South autobid. I don't think there's a sinlge Lehigh fan who thinks that Lehigh's schedule was as hard as, say, Liberty's. But saying that Lehigh went out of their way to "schedule themselves in this hole", it's not just uninformed, it's ridiculous.

If you're going to make the charge of "scheduling themselves in a hole", you have to see a pattern of bad scheduling for years. For the last five years we've scheduled home-and-homes with Villanova, UNH, done a game at Delaware I think. These are top-flight, playoff teams. Most years, so is Liberty. Considering FBS games have been out of reach due to the 63 scholarship thing, that's a pretty good achievement in its own right.

If Lehigh doesn't make it, they only have themselves to blame for losing today. But saying that it's the fault of their schedule, that they purposely did this... that's ridiculous.

[MSUBobcat]

Get ready for it.......I agree with you.

xhighfivex At 10-1 Lehigh WILL be in. Would a bubble team that finishes 8-3 have the same record if they played LU's schedule? Likely. Did said team take care of their OWN business to make the committee HAVE to take them? Nope.

[Gil Dobie]

IMO it would be criminal if either team got in over an 8-3 Indiana State team.

Won't the committee look at Indiana State as 7-2?

[WrenFGun]

Won't the committee look at Indiana State as 7-2?

See almost no way Indiana State will get in at this point; but who knows. I think this year the committee may put less stock into AMOUNT of wins (as long as it's over 7) than they have in years past.

[Gil Dobie]

See almost no way Indiana State will get in at this point; but who knows. I think this year the committee may put less stock into AMOUNT of wins (as long as it's over 7) than they have in years past.

Sam will be 7-1 unless they beat A&M.

[WrenFGun]

Sam will be 7-1 unless they beat A&M.

I'm one of the FEW people that don't think Sam deserves to make the playoffs, so that really isn't something I disagree with it. The issue with SAM is that they are ranked VERY highly ... can the committee ignore that? ISU-b doesn't have that fortune, unfair as it is.

[Bisonwinagn]

See almost no way Indiana State will get in at this point; but who knows. I think this year the committee may put less stock into AMOUNT of wins (as long as it's over 7) than they have in years past.

Indiana State could be in the Top 5 in the GPI if they win. Clearly in with a win. The number of teams from the CAA is crazy thought and could be anywhere from 2 to 6. Who wins the auto bid with a 6 way tie?

[Appattk]

I really take exception when people talk about Lehigh's schedule, as if Lehigh is purposefully scheduling cupcakes for the sole purpose of... what? Making the playoffs? Lehigh scheduled two NEC teams, one which was a late replacement for (if I remember right) Villanova, who dropped our series with them because they perceive that it's too great a possibility that they lose to us. They scheduled Ivy teams, whose schedules are pre-set years in advance, and are consistently a part of Patriot League schedules. They did schedule Liberty, who is always a playoff-caliber team and still is alive for the Bog South autobid. I don't think there's a sinlge Lehigh fan who thinks that Lehigh's schedule was as hard as, say, Liberty's. But saying that Lehigh went out of their way to "schedule themselves in this hole", it's not just uninformed, it's ridiculous.

If you're going to make the charge of "scheduling themselves in a hole", you have to see a pattern of bad scheduling for years. For the last five years we've scheduled home-and-homes with Villanova, UNH, done a game at Delaware I think. These are top-flight, playoff teams. Most years, so is Liberty. Considering FBS games have been out of reach due to the 63 scholarship thing, that's a pretty good achievement in its own right.

If Lehigh doesn't make it, they only have themselves to blame for losing today. But saying that it's the fault of their schedule, that they purposely did this... that's ridiculous.

What is Lehigh's playoff record when they schedule a decent slate during the regular season?

[MTfan4life]

I'm one of the FEW people that don't think Sam deserves to make the playoffs, so that really isn't something I disagree with it. The issue with SAM is that they are ranked VERY highly ... can the committee ignore that? ISU-b doesn't have that fortune, unfair as it is.

I've said this so many times. You have to look beyond their schedule. They have made their last seven games look like they're playing a high school schedule. Like I posted last week, they have handed teams their worst FCS loss by far. Lamar's closest non shsu fcs loss compared to loss to shsu: 14/49; McNeese St.: 1/35; Northwestern St: 21/35; SELA: 20/70. That means they've given those teams their worst FCS loss by an average of 33 points more than their previous worst fcs loss. That's not something that happens very often. This is their last four games too. Find one team that has played that well the last month.

[TheBoyWhoSeaWolf]

What a disaster today was. Lehigh and Stony Brook should both be in in my biased, worthless, humble opinion. After their first drive, the Seawolves looked like a completely different team today. Now we get a BYE?

[Mr. C]

THE PAST DOES NOT MATTER. JUST BEAT LAFAYETTE HANDILY AND HOPE.

Totally ridiculous statement. The past DOES matter. The committee has used precedent for years in determining playoff fields, if you analyze previous tournament brackets and it is very slow to change those precedents, just like the Supreme Court. Some things to consider this year is that an auto-bid league has never had a 10-win team overlooked and the only time that one of the major conferences (SoCon, CAA, Big Sky, MVFC) has seen a co-champion not make the field is Villanova when it was a quad-champion in the Atlantic 10 in 2001.

[Mr. C]

Indiana State could be in the Top 5 in the GPI if they win. Clearly in with a win. The number of teams from the CAA is crazy thought and could be anywhere from 2 to 6. Who wins the auto bid with a 6 way tie?

The CAA should have something out on a five-way tie and other scenarios on Sunday. There cannot be a six-way tie, because Old Dominion is ineligible for the title.

[lehidude]

I remember the discussion in 2010 of not including 10-1 Jacksonville (who incidentally only lost @ Appalachian that year.)

I don't see how this Lehigh season is less deserving of a similar fate.

[Mr. C]

Please show me a 10-1 team from an auto-bid conference in FCS history that didn't make the playoffs.

There hasn't been one since the tournament went to 16 teams. Not sure if it happened before that.

[Mr. C]

I remember the discussion in 2010 of not including 10-1 Jacksonville (who incidentally only lost @ Appalchian that year.)

I don't see how this Lehigh season is less deserving of a similar fate.

Jacksonville was not from an auto-bid conference and I was told by several committee members that strength of schedule kept the Dolphins out that year. Of course, the PFL was a league that was scheduling its share of D-III games back then. Jacksonville actually played pretty competitively in that ASU game. I've still got the game film here in the house.

[lehidude]

Jacksonville was not from an auto-bid conference .

Understood, but the point here is that 10 wins were earned in what could be considered a very similar SOS.

I'm not sure how much weight "auto bid conference" can get you in the at-large discussion?

[MTfan4life]

Totally ridiculous statement. The past DOES matter. The committee has used precedent for years in determining playoff fields, if you analyze previous tournament brackets and it is very slow to change those precedents, just like the Supreme Court. Some things to consider this year is that an auto-bid league has never had a 10-win team overlooked and the only time that one of the major conferences (SoCon, CAA, Big Sky, MVFC) has seen a co-champion not make the field is Villanova when it was a quad-champion in the Atlantic 10 in 2001.

Correction sir. In 2005, Montana State was the Co Conference champion of the Big Sky and they did not make the playoffs. They had 7 DI wins that season too.

Edit. Also in 2002, Idaho State did not get in even though they shared a three way tie for the Big Sky crown. So that's at least three instances since 2001.

[World]

the following is going to happen

Lehigh will beat Lafayette

Lehigh and Colgate will go to the playoffs

Lehigh and Colgate will win the first game of the playoffs

Everyone will be quiet thereafter, just like they were quiet when Lehigh beat UNI in the 2010 playoffs, just like they were quiet when Lehigh beat Towson in the 2011 playoffs

[WileECoyote06]

I'm sure some Lehigh fans don't like my comments but I've said the same things to fans of MEAC teams, OVC teams and Pioneer teams. I don't have a lot of compassion for teams that don't schedule tough.

lol . . .all these pseudo-ADs in here. Like I said, 10 - 1 from an autobid conference. They're in. Also, it's funny how selectively people use the rule of football transitivity. It's Any Given Saturday for everyone else but Lehigh, eh?

Recall I questioned Stony Brooks inclusion in a lot of people's Top-5 just two weeks ago. . . .

[danefan]

As seen today, beating Liberty in Lynchburg is a "good" win. Wins over Princeton and Fordham who have shown to be good teams, and a win at Lafayette in "The Rivalry" game will be seen as 'good.' I will agree there is a fine line between a lot of teams and many are on the bubble. If we don't get selected despite beating Lafayette, we have only ourselves to blame, however, by allowing someone else to make the decision.

None of those listed are at-large quality wins.

[danefan]

I really take exception when people talk about Lehigh's schedule, as if Lehigh is purposefully scheduling cupcakes for the sole purpose of... what? Making the playoffs? Lehigh scheduled two NEC teams, one which was a late replacement for (if I remember right) Villanova, who dropped our series with them because they perceive that it's too great a possibility that they lose to us. They scheduled Ivy teams, whose schedules are pre-set years in advance, and are consistently a part of Patriot League schedules. They did schedule Liberty, who is always a playoff-caliber team and still is alive for the Bog South autobid. I don't think there's a sinlge Lehigh fan who thinks that Lehigh's schedule was as hard as, say, Liberty's. But saying that Lehigh went out of their way to "schedule themselves in this hole", it's not just uninformed, it's ridiculous.

If you're going to make the charge of "scheduling themselves in a hole", you have to see a pattern of bad scheduling for years. For the last five years we've scheduled home-and-homes with Villanova, UNH, done a game at Delaware I think. These are top-flight, playoff teams. Most years, so is Liberty. Considering FBS games have been out of reach due to the 63 scholarship thing, that's a pretty good achievement in its own right.

If Lehigh doesn't make it, they only have themselves to blame for losing today. But saying that it's the fault of their schedule, that they purposely did this... that's ridiculous.


Its bad at-large scheduling. Go on the road and play a MVFC, Socon or a Big Sky team if you want consideration for an at-large out of the weaker conferences.

[danefan]

Jacksonville and Lehigh are Apples and Oranges.

Again I'm not sure what's going to happen, but if Lehigh does get an at-large it will be one of, if not the weakest at-large resume ever.

[Doc QB]

You do realize that the first thing the MVFC rep is going to do when Lehigh is discussed is say that the worst team in the MVFC beat the PL Champ. The playoff committee has left teams out with weak schedules and gaudy records before and with a very strong crop of at-large teams Lehigh could very well be left out.

Even at 10-1, I dont think Lehigh has earned it above some 8-3 teams. And I am an LU homer all the way. But the Colgate-USD contest was ONE G'Damned game and is an absolutely retarded basis for knocking a team down. One game.

[BisonBacker]

Ah, that whooping in the UNI dome still smarts I see!:p

You need to stop living in the past!

[89rabbit]

If Lehigh gets an at-large, it will be one of the weakest at-large resumes ever.

Zero good wins and a loss in a bottom rung conference.

I'm not opining on whether they should or shouldn't, but what is the rationale?

I think both teams may be sitting home.......


Yup - Check out week 2

http://www.goyotes.com/sports/m-footbl/sched/sdak-m-footbl-sched.html

2012 SCHEDULE
Overall1-9 Conf. 0-7


09/01/12 at Montana Missoula, Mont. L, 35-24
09/08/12 vs. Colgate Vermillion, S.D. W, 31-21
09/22/12 at Northwestern Evanston, Ill. L, 38-7
09/29/12 vs. Illinois State * Vermillion, S.D. L, 34-31
10/06/12 vs. Western Illinois * Vermillion, S.D. L, 24-17
10/13/12 at Missouri State * Springfield, Mo. L, 27-24
10/20/12 vs. North Dakota State * Sioux Falls, S.D. L, 54-0
10/27/12 at Indiana State * Terre Haute, Ind. L, 45-14
11/03/12 at Youngstown State * Youngstown, Ohio L, 13-10
11/10/12 vs. Northern Iowa * Vermillion, S.D. L, 24-21
11/17/12 at South Dakota St. * Brookings, S.D. 2:00 p.m.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Its bad at-large scheduling. Go on the road and play a MVFC, Socon or a Big Sky team if you want consideration for an at-large out of the weaker conferences.

... which we have done every year for the last five years. My point. It's not like this was some nefarious plot to pad the schedule so Lehigh could get in the playoffs. If anything, it was a big contributing factor to yesterday's defeat.

[Wallace]

Totally ridiculous statement. The past DOES matter. The committee has used precedent for years in determining playoff fields, if you analyze previous tournament brackets and it is very slow to change those precedents, just like the Supreme Court.
You can call the championship committee dishonest if you would like but it is clear in their rules that the past does not matter.

Some things to consider this year is that an auto-bid league has never had a 10-win team overlooked
I'm not sure what that is worth since it is from the past, not the rules.

the only time that one of the major conferences (SoCon, CAA, Big Sky, MVFC) has seen a co-champion not make the field is Villanova when it was a quad-champion in the Atlantic 10 in 2001.
It has already been pointed out it has happened more than once and I'm not sure what that is worth since it is from the past, not the rules.

[kalm]

What would Lehigh's record be against this schedule:

Kansas
SELA
Davis
Indiana State
Missouri State
WIU
UNI
YSU
SIU
NDSU
USD

And we already know the outcome of the final game which is the weakest one on the schedule...

How about this one?

New Mexico State
Colorado
Northern Colorado
UND
Idaho State
SUU
Weber
EWU
Cal Poly
Montana State
Davis

[89rabbit]

You now in Basketball if you are from a Mid-Major conference and you lose your conference tourney you watch the NCAA on TV. So if you are from a weak FCS auto bid conference and you blow it, why should the committee reward them for not getting it done?


Colgate is the Champion of your league and they are the MVFC's doormate's only win on the season. Sorry I think Lehigh is out.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What would Lehigh's record be against this schedule:

Kansas
SELA
Davis
Indiana State
Missouri State
WIU
UNI
YSU
SIU
NDSU
USD

And we already know the outcome of the final game which is the weakest one on the schedule...

How about this one?

New Mexico State
Colorado
Northern Colorado
UND
Idaho State
SUU
Weber
EWU
Cal Poly
Montana State
Davis

9-and-fing-2. :P

[IaaScribe]

Stony Brook is f***ed. Sorry.

The entire resume is based on the wins over Colgate, Army and Coastal Carolina. The Big South is once again the weakest of the auto-bid leagues. Stony Brook is pretty good, Coastal and Liberty are OK, Charleston Southern is mediocre and VMI, G-Webb and Presbyterian are horrible. Presby is the worst (scholarship) team in the country, hands down. VMI's not much better. Just looking at it, I don't know how Stony Brook gets in over teams from the CAA, or even maybe a fourth from the MVFC. Samford probably has a better argument than Stony Brook. Precedent being what it is, I think an 8-3 Eastern Kentucky is close to a lock, too. I've championed SBU all year, but the Wolves needed to get it done yesterday and laid a total egg in its championship game. I just don't think they've done enough.

[89rabbit]

Honestly Stony Brook and Lehigh didn't add to the playoff selection mess, they just eliminated themselves that's all.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I think SBU should still get an at large.

I don't think Lehigh should, but they most likely will.


Rob,

I actually disagree and much for the reasons I was posting before. I have not gone on here with a big thread saying "I told you so" but we all know the middle of the pack in the Big South, NEC, and Patriot League are weak right now. With that said, I know the Patriot League will get stronger with scholarships but the Big South and NEC are losing the schools carrying their banners to the CAA and thus in my mind are weaker and only deserving of one bid in the future until those teams show they can beat top 25 teams.

Colgate should be the only team in the field from the Patriot League while the Big South should only have one bid as well. If an 8-3 team from the CAA, MVFC, Big Sky, or SoCon are left out for a 2nd team in those two leagues that would be a crime. There is no way an 8-3 team who goes through the gauntlet of playing the elite of FCS should be punished because some team pulled an upset over a team that many of us who see these teams know is weak. If they push out an OVC team who is 8-3 I would be okay with it but I have a feeling there are folks who don't want 3 or 4 teams from a league, even if they deserve it, and they want socialism in football (everyone has the same amount of teams in) LOL.

I have been saying it all along while watching these leagues this year and while there has been success from Lehigh in the past they are not as good and the Big South is really down this year. CCU has no business in the playoffs this year while Lehigh did deserve it but I don't think Colgate is that good. As of right now there are now 3 leagues with a team in the field and yet those teams aren't even ranked. Someone in the top 18 is going to get left out for a team that isn't as good as them and that's not fair. This is why I hate auto bids and want the 20 best teams ranked and put in the field. It guarantees a team entry in the field for playing a weak schedule with no quality wins and punishes teams who play Montana, App State, JMU, GSU, SHSU, UCA, NDSU, etc. out of conference and then play 3 ranked teams in conference and a FBS team. I want to see the 20 best teams. This is why I'm for shrinking the field to 12 or 16 and seeing the very best teams in the field.

Honestly, there are FBS folks against the playoffs because you travel down a slippery slope with playoffs. I want playoffs but 8-12 in FBS and 12-16 in FCS with only the top 8-16 teams getting in instead of giving a clearly lesser league an auto bid when we all know they would not beat a top 3 or 4 team in the power leagues. I don't have anything against them but I think it just waters down the field and makes the first round a round full of teams who won't even be in the semis. I feel bad for those teams who come in having to play the first round knowing they aren't quite good enough and yet are going to be asked to win one more game than the others and all on the road with a stacked deck. It's really like saying hey congrats for winning your lower league now go play the gauntlet these other teams have already done and go home with an early exit.

[smallcollegefbfan]

You now in Basketball if you are from a Mid-Major conference and you lose your conference tourney you watch the NCAA on TV. So if you are from a weak FCS auto bid conference and you blow it, why should the committee reward them for not getting it done?


Colgate is the Champion of your league and they are the MVFC's doormate's only win on the season. Sorry I think Lehigh is out.

I'm with you. I think the committee has an easy job here. 1 team from the NEC, Patriot League, Big South, and no more than 2 from the OVC this year. SoCon, MVFC, CAA, and Big Sky are power leagues. I would take 2 from the Southland for sure but other than that the only leagues with 2 or more should be SoCon, MVFC, CAA, and Big Sky.

These last three weeks are what I saw coming 4-5 weeks ago when I kept hammering home the forget record thing and rank the best teams. I saw Harvard, Lehigh, Stony Brook, and Albany all as weaker teams who were lucky to be where they are because of weak opponents and they would eventually stumble, which they did. I even pointed to Cal Poly and they have fallen off losing 2 of the last 3.

And before someone says I am hating, I have not hated on these leagues in the past but I have been watching them all year with all of them having auto bids and the leagues are weak this year. There is a RB in Texas who has run for 2400 yards and 40 TDs this year committed to Oregon State and you say why has Texas, Texas A&M, and Oklahoma all let him out of their back yard? Because the kid is playing a bunch of slow, small kids in a 2A league in Texas where the school is in the middle of nowhere. This kid is 2-stars by Rivals.com and if he played in 5A ball he would have 30-40 offers instead of 8 with Memphis and Oregon State being his best. My whole point telling this is to look at who people win or produce against. That's why NFL teams don't take 3 or 4-time FCS All-Americans in the first round because they haven't done it against the BCS schools.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm with you. I think the committee has an easy job here. 1 team from the NEC, Patriot League, Big South, and no more than 2 from the OVC this year. SoCon, MVFC, CAA, and Big Sky are power leagues. I would take 2 from the Southland for sure but other than that the only leagues with 2 or more should be SoCon, MVFC, CAA, and Big Sky.

These last three weeks are what I saw coming 4-5 weeks ago when I kept hammering home the forget record thing and rank the best teams. I saw Harvard, Lehigh, Stony Brook, and Albany all as weaker teams who were lucky to be where they are because of weak opponents and they would eventually stumble, which they did. I even pointed to Cal Poly and they have fallen off losing 2 of the last 3.


How cute. Too bad it will mean nothing when the doors are closed next Saturday.

[kalm]

I'm with you. I think the committee has an easy job here. 1 team from the NEC, Patriot League, Big South, and no more than 2 from the OVC this year. SoCon, MVFC, CAA, and Big Sky are power leagues. I would take 2 from the Southland for sure but other than that the only leagues with 2 or more should be SoCon, MVFC, CAA, and Big Sky.

These last three weeks are what I saw coming 4-5 weeks ago when I kept hammering home the forget record thing and rank the best teams. I saw Harvard, Lehigh, Stony Brook, and Albany all as weaker teams who were lucky to be where they are because of weak opponents and they would eventually stumble, which they did. I even pointed to Cal Poly and they have fallen off losing 2 of the last 3.

And before someone says I am hating, I have not hated on these leagues in the past but I have been watching them all year with all of them having auto bids and the leagues are weak this year. There is a RB in Texas who has run for 2400 yards and 40 TDs this year committed to Oregon State and you say why has Texas, Texas A&M, and Oklahoma all let him out of their back yard? Because the kid is playing a bunch of slow, small kids in a 2A league in Texas where the school is in the middle of nowhere. This kid is 2-stars by Rivals.com and if he played in 5A ball he would have 30-40 offers instead of 8 with Memphis and Oregon State being his best. My whole point telling this is to look at who people win or produce against. That's why NFL teams don't take 3 or 4-time FCS All-Americans in the first round because they haven't done it against the BCS schools.

Reason!

[kalm]

9-and-fing-2.

:P
xlolxxbowx

4-6 would be a good year with either one of those schedules.

[Engineer86]

If I was picking the best teams play, I have to admit. Hard for me to argue Lehigh as a best 10, non-AQ. Not sure what the committee does. Win the last game and see what happens. Yesterday was a real disappointment.

[Appattk]

I think the committee will ultimately pick one of the two of Lehigh and Stony Brook.. With Stony's win over FBS Army they would get nod. (Even if Army is in fact horrible...)

[smallcollegefbfan]

How cute. Too bad it will mean nothing when the doors are closed next Saturday.

I think the committee may surprise and only reward one team from those leagues. All I know is if Lehigh is taken over one of the 8-3 three-way tie teams in the SoCon or 8-3 from MVFC or Big Sky there is going to be huge backlash but I don't see it happening. Committee doesn't reward mediocrity and gives to those who proved on the field.

I was pulling for you guys this week to be honest. I really was. I wanted to see Lehigh in the playoffs but they didn't get the job done. They lost to a Colgate team that is not considered top 30 and I think they Lehigh's resume is going to be so weak that the committee leaves them out. Again, name 3 quality wins and a top 25 loss by Lehigh this year. Lehigh needs to schedule 1-2 really good CAA or SoCon teams to guarantee that is they are 8-3 or 9-2 again without winning the league that they still get in.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I think the committee will ultimately pick one of the two of Lehigh and Stony Brook.. With Stony's win over FBS Army they would get nod. (Even if Army is in fact horrible...)

I agree. I would not take either one but I think if you pick it is clearly SBU. They have a FBS win and actually have some players who could make it a real tough day for any individual from the power leagues. Plus, who doesn't want to see Maysonet against GSU, App State, Wofford, JMU, Villanova, etc? I sure do! Maysonet is my pick for the Payton right now.

[UNHWildcat18]

If I had to decide on one team, I would go with Stony brook. They played probably the worst game against liberty possible. I give credit for Liberty playing tough of course, But I would easily back up stony brook being able to go toe to toe with any of the top CAA Big Sky or MVFC teams. Lehigh I cannot say so much for. and I know lehigh fans said what about last year and 2010, your team was better both of those years. Patriot sucks this year besides colgate and lehigh. Stony Brook deserves a playoff spot.

[LEHIGH61]

I think the committee may surprise and only reward one team from those leagues. All I know is if Lehigh is taken over one of the 8-3 three-way tie teams in the SoCon or 8-3 from MVFC or Big Sky there is going to be huge backlash but I don't see it happening. Committee doesn't reward mediocrity and gives to those who proved on the field.

I was pulling for you guys this week to be honest. I really was. I wanted to see Lehigh in the playoffs but they didn't get the job done. They lost to a Colgate team that is not considered top 30 and I think they Lehigh's resume is going to be so weak that the committee leaves them out. Again, name 3 quality wins and a top 25 loss by Lehigh this year. Lehigh needs to schedule 1-2 really good CAA or SoCon teams to guarantee that is they are 8-3 or 9-2 again without winning the league that they still get in.Lehigh was ranked # 6 and #8 in last week's polls. Despite the schedule, those who voted must have been impressed with -0 at that point. If they end up 10-1, they should get in, and let's see who they play. Whoever it is better not take them lightly.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Stony Brook can only scoreboard-watch, but Lehigh needs to simply win, preferably by a large margin, and see what happens. IMVHO, and I mean no disrespect to anyone at all, next Saturday we could see any number of outcomes that could change things dramatically that might put both teams in the field.

[ecasadoSBU]

Stony Brook can only scoreboard-watch, but Lehigh needs to simply win, preferably by a large margin, and see what happens. IMVHO, and I mean no disrespect to anyone at all, next Saturday we could see any number of outcomes that could change things dramatically that might put both teams in the field.

This is what I'm truly hoping for at this point. lol

[CHIP72]

Both teams should be in the playoffs providing they win out. SBU has a FBS win, that should count for some major selection points. The PL isn't weak. Any team can drop a game, Lehigh can and should make the playoffs this year.

As much as I don't like saying it, I disagree about the Patriot League this year. IMO the league is weak in 2012.

[CHIP72]

Let's get this straight. Empirical evidence and precedent holds no bearing on the actions of the committee? They just behave erratically from year to year with no consistency, guidelines, or order? We have data to construct a quasi-model of what might happen based on years past, but we can't use it?

You starting to sound like one of those people who think the earth is 3,000 years old.

I want to see Lehigh make the playoffs, but if past results should play a major role in determining this year's playoff teams, then teams like Auburn should be in contention for a BCS bowl this year, Towson should have been kept out of the FCS playoffs last year, and the Philadelphia Phillies should have been given a position in this season's National League playoffs because they made the playoffs the last 5 years and the NL Central was weak overall. I don't think it would be fair if teams' playoff selection in a given season should be partially determined by what they did in previous seasons. Some of the players on those past standout teams (for any past standout team) no longer play for that team; the group of players on any team varies some from year to year.

[CHIP72]

Its bad at-large scheduling. Go on the road and play a MVFC, Socon or a Big Sky team if you want consideration for an at-large out of the weaker conferences.

I agree with the tougher scheduling part, but why should Lehigh (or any other team in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic) have to play a team 500+ miles away when there are good teams they could play in their own region? I'd say the same thing about a Southeast team playing non-Southeast team, a Midwest/Great Plains team playing a non-Midwest/Great Plains team, or a West team playing a non-West team. If there are few/no other good teams in the region then maybe you (need to) travel a bit to play another strong team, but to spend extra $$$ to play a good out-of-region when you can spend less $$$ to play a good team in your own region seems kind of dumb to me.

What Lehigh (and other good Northeast/Mid-Atlantic FCS teams) needs to do is schedule CAA teams out-of-conference or even play an FCS opponent who is willing to bring you in to play.

[World]

Jacksonville and Lehigh are Apples and Oranges.

Again I'm not sure what's going to happen, but if Lehigh does get an at-large it will be one of, if not the weakest at-large resume ever.

and yet again Lehigh will win its first playoff game, no matter who it faces...

[World]

What would Lehigh's record be against this schedule:

Kansas
SELA
Davis
Indiana State
Missouri State
WIU
UNI
YSU
SIU
NDSU
USD

And we already know the outcome of the final game which is the weakest one on the schedule...

How about this one?

New Mexico State
Colorado
Northern Colorado
UND
Idaho State
SUU
Weber
EWU
Cal Poly
Montana State
Davis

11-0 for each schedule

[danefan]

and yet again Lehigh will win its first playoff game, no matter who it faces...

So would Northern Iowa.

Doesnt mean they should get an at-large.

[World]

So would Northern Iowa.

Doesnt mean they should get an at-large.

How has Northern Iowa done with its first games of the playoffs in the last 2 years?

[Engineer86]

What Lehigh (and other good Northeast/Mid-Atlantic FCS teams) needs to do is schedule CAA teams out-of-conference or even play an FCS opponent who is willing to bring you in to play.

Tell UD to come out of their protective bubble once in a while, and Nova that the Patriot League won't force them to join the league if the schedule a few games withy the league and we might have a few regional games with the CAA. If Lehigh does not get in, I will be a UNH fan, since they will play us home and home.

[Mattymc727]

Tell UD to come out of their protective bubble once in a while, and Nova that the Patriot League won't force them to join the league if the schedule a few games withy the league and we might have a few regional games with the CAA. If Lehigh does not get in, I will be a UNH fan, since they will play us home and home.

Thats if UNH can win on saturday. A loss, and UNH could very well be on the outside looking in too....

[danefan]

How has Northern Iowa done with its first games of the playoffs in the last 2 years?

What does that matter?

Lehigh might win a game in the playoffs.

Albany might win a game in the playoffs too. Albany isn't getting an at-large.

Im not saying Lehigh won't get one, but again, f they do, they'll have one of, if not the weakest resume of any at-large team ever.

[Southsider]

What does that matter?

Lehigh might win a game in the playoffs.

Albany might win a game in the playoffs too. Albany isn't getting an at-large.

Im not saying Lehigh won't get one, but again, f they do, they'll have one of, if not the weakest resume of any at-large team ever.

Dane, put a lid on it! Lehigh would gladly schedule up here and there if it made sense. But why should they? There are many teams within 300 miles to fill the OOC schedule. Why travel to Fargo? In my view, over the years the committee's job has not been to put the "best" teams in the field, rather a field that best represents the division as a whole.

[kalm]

Dane, put a lid on it! Lehigh would gladly schedule up here and there if it made sense. But why should they? There are many teams within 300 miles to fill the OOC schedule. Why travel to Fargo? In my view, over the years the committee's job has not been to put the "best" teams in the field, rather a field that best represents the division as a whole.

Huh?

[FargoBison]

Huh?

My thoughts exactly.

[MTfan4life]

and yet again Lehigh will win its first playoff game, no matter who it faces...

Since you're making guarantees, I figured I'd bring this up:


Lehigh will go 11-0

Lehigh will get a top 5 seed

[danefan]

Dane, put a lid on it! Lehigh would gladly schedule up here and there if it made sense. But why should they? There are many teams within 300 miles to fill the OOC schedule. Why travel to Fargo? In my view, over the years the committee's job has not been to put the "best" teams in the field, rather a field that best represents the division as a whole.

Just because it's fun....what?

[WrenFGun]

Since you're making guarantees, I figured I'd bring this up:

terrific stuff.

[sgt smash]

Dane, put a lid on it! Lehigh would gladly schedule up here and there if it made sense. But why should they? There are many teams within 300 miles to fill the OOC schedule. Why travel to Fargo? In my view, over the years the committee's job has not been to put the "best" teams in the field, rather a field that best represents the division as a whole.

Exactly. The Autobids for the weak sauce conferences definitely take away from the tournament.

[WileECoyote06]

Exactly. The Autobids for the weak sauce conferences definitely take away from the tournament.

If you want FBS football, then move up; or you could go back to D2 where champions are not given autobids. FCS gives all of the conferences who qualify for an autobid a chance to prove themselves in a tournament. And that is exactly the way it should be.

[danefan]

If you want FBS football, then move up; or you could go back to D2 where champions are not given autobids. FCS gives all of the conferences who qualify for an autobid a chance to prove themselves in a tournament. And that is exactly the way it should be.

+1

Now at-large bids are a different story.

[sgt smash]

If you want FBS football, then move up; or you could go back to D2 where champions are not given autobids. FCS gives all of the conferences who qualify for an autobid a chance to prove themselves in a tournament. And that is exactly the way it should be.

That really makes sense, especially when the MVFC's last place team gives the PL front runner a loss.

[taper]

If you want FBS football, then move up; or you could go back to D2 where champions are not given autobids. FCS gives all of the conferences who qualify for an autobid a chance to prove themselves in a tournament. And that is exactly the way it should be.

Or..if you want a schedule full of non-scholarship teams, you can play in D3. UW-Whitewater had a 45 game winning streak until this year, should they have been given a seed in the FCS tourney at any point?

Glad to see the Patriot is moving to nearly full scholarship in the coming years, I'll respect their autobid a lot more at that point.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You know, I cannot wait to see Colgate's first-round game.

[mmiller_34]

Okay. Each FCS conference, besides the Pioneer and those abstaining, should receive autobids. That should go without question. Yes. Colgate legitimately deserves their autobid I don't care if they lost to South Dakota.

Lets get this thread back on track because this issue really does threaten my teams chances of getting an at-large.

1. Colgate (7-3)
2. Lehigh (9-1)
3. Coastal Carolina (6-4)
4. Stony Brook (9-2)

Are we going to see all these teams in the playoffs?

[Engineer86]

That really makes sense, especially when the MVFC's last place team gives the PL front runner a loss.

Seriously, if you do not think Colgate is a comletely different team from the one that traveled to SD, you just are not watching things outside you little world

[FargoBison]

You know, I cannot wait to see Colgate's first-round game.

Who are they probably going to play? Wagner?

[mmiller_34]

Who are they probably going to play? Wagner?

Maybe they can make another trip to South Dakota.

[sgt smash]

Who are they probably going to play? Wagner?

Probably an OVC team. A real battle of Titans.

[FargoBison]

Maybe they can make another trip to South Dakota.

I'd love to see that but I'm sure they'll stay out east due to regionalization. Wagner would be likely, Stony Brook another option or perhaps Nova.

[BisonFan02]

Maybe they can make another trip to South Dakota.

Haha, I would love to see Colgate play at CAS in late November...that would be a treat. It would likely have to be in the second round since I think SDSU could end up with a bye.

[Engineer86]

I'd love to see that but I'm sure they'll stay out east due to regionalization. Wagner would be likely, Stony Brook another option or perhaps Nova.

I would love to see Colgate at SDSU

[Engineer86]

Haha, I would love to see Colgate play at CAS in late November...that would be a treat. It would likely have to be in the second round since I think SDSU could end up with a bye.

Agree you really thinking the cold would bother Colgate? Do you know where Hamilton is?

[sgt smash]

Seriously, if you do not think Colgate is a comletely different team from the one that traveled to SD, you just are not watching things outside you little world

And I wish the NDSU team that played Youngstown was playing now too.

[BisonFan02]

Agree you really thinking the cold would bother Colgate? Do you know where Hamilton is?

Not geared towards the weather per say. I was more going for the field (CAS) late in the season. Can become a mess pretty fast.

[TheGoldCrotchPiece]

what would lehigh's and sbu's record be against this schedule

kent state
bye
W&M
St Francis PA
LSU
JMU
Maine
ODU
NOVA
UD
URI
UNH

3-8? both should be out.

[BisonFan02]

Agree you really thinking the cold would bother Colgate? Do you know where Hamilton is?

And yes, I am aware where Hamilton, NY is....I used to live out east and spent alot of time in upstate NY and way too close to Lake Ontario during the wrong time of the year.

[sgt smash]

I think any FCS team would uave trouble with this.




what would lehigh's and sbu's record be against this schedule

kent state
bye
W&M
St Francis PA
LSU
JMU
Maine
ODU
NOVA
UD
URI
UNH

3-8? both should be out.

[Engineer86]

Not geared towards the weather per say. I was more going for the field (CAS) late in the season. Can become a mess pretty fast.

Ideally do think this would be a good match up. Colgate is a ground and pound first and throws off of that. Unless SDSU is huge for an FCS program, I would really like to see this matchup. Colgate was much bigger than Lehigh on the online, from the naked eye.

[UNH Fanboi]

You know, I cannot wait to see Colgate's first-round game.

Because their OOC results have been so impressive this year??

PL fans love to bring up Lehigh's wins in 2010 and 2011, but conveniently forget to mention the PL's record from 2004-2009. Unless Colgate plays the NEC, Big South, OVC or MEAC champ, I think they're in big trouble. Both 2012 Colgate and 2012 Lehigh are weaker than the 2010 and 2011 Lehigh teams.

[Engineer86]

And I wish the NDSU team that played Youngstown was playing now too.

Thank you that is my point. I was impressed with Colgate yesterday. Teams do change.

[sgt smash]

Thank you that is my point. I was impressed with Colgate yesterday. Teams do change.

NDSU is still winning though. Colgate beat a Lehigh who people were questioning all year long.

[THE HERD]

if Lehigh would have taken care of business today we wouldnt even be talking about it, but they didnt, and therefore their inclusion is going to be questioned. I think most teams that are considered a lock would have taken colgate to the woodshed.

USD beat Colgate.......that pretty much says it all. NDSU beat USD 54-0 and held them to something like 70 total yards of offense for the game!

[UNIFanSince1983]

USD beat Colgate.......that pretty much says it all. NDSU beat USD 54-0 and held them to something like 70 total yards of offense for the game!

Yeah the worst team in the Valley beat the best team in the Patriot. I think this says all you need to know.

[sgt smash]

Yeah the worst team in the Valley beat the best team in the Patriot. I think this says all you need to know.

But they have changed!

[LehighDad]

There should be a few extra criteria to see who gets a bid. Tuition and SAT scores....Lehigh is at the very top in tuition at $54k and far above the other candidates is SAT's + Lehigh beat Duke!

[BisonFan02]

There should be a few extra criteria to see who gets a bid. Tuition and SAT scores....Lehigh is at the very top in tuition at $54k and far above the other candidates is SAT's + Lehigh beat Duke!

xlolx congrats I guess?

[sgt smash]

There should be a few extra criteria to see who gets a bid. Tuition and SAT scores....Lehigh is at the very top in tuition at $54k and far above the other candidates is SAT's + Lehigh beat Duke!

After that if a tie exists, the deciding criteria will be the hotness of head coach's wife. Bohl wins.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Personally I think neither SBU or Lehigh deserves an at large spot. Had either one gone out and beat any decent team from a major conference I might feel differently. It is similar to the NCAA basketball tournament where certain conferences teams need to win the autobid if they want to be in. To say the Patriot or Big South is on equal footing with the CAA, Southern, MVFC, or Big Sky is wrong. Heck they aren't even close to the Southland or OVC and those conferences rarely get 2 teams in.

If one of them gets in my gut is it will be SBU due to the solid win over Army. I mean just take the Valley for example (simply because I know these teams schedules and records better than other major conferences). Indiana State and Youngstown State (with a win over Indiana State) would have better resumes than either SBU or Lehigh. It might be hard for these fans to hear, but these teams played great teams week in and week out. They have proven they can play with the best. Lehigh and SBU have not proven they can play with the best. They might be able to, but without showing it and not winning your autobid you do not deserve that opportunity.

[ekufbfan]

Probably an OVC team. A real battle of Titans.

Juvenile sarcastic remark, trying to be cute /funny. xcrazyx
Have you ever seen an OVC team play in person? For that matter have you seen Wagner play?
You and I both know NDS has had success, but IMO that does not warrant NDS fans carte blanche sarcasm (yes I have seen it for the last 2 years!).
In the words of Roy Kidd, long time EKU Coach and one of the MOST successful College HALL OF FAME coaches in all of DI. "When you win act like you have been there before"!

[BisonBacker]

Yeah the worst team in the Valley beat the best team in the Patriot. I think this says all you need to know.

I have been saying this all along and there is nothing they are going to say that will change that fact. If the Patriot was anything the leader in that conference should be able to beat the cellar dwellar of any FCS conference. xcoffeex

[kalm]

There should be a few extra criteria to see who gets a bid. Tuition and SAT scores....Lehigh is at the very top in tuition at $54k and far above the other candidates is SAT's + Lehigh beat Duke!

You should take some of that tuition and fully fund scholarships.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You should take some of that tuition and fully fund scholarships.

Coming soon! :D

[BisonFan02]

Juvenile sarcastic remark, trying to be cute /funny. xcrazyx
Have you ever seen an OVC team play in person? For that matter have you seen Wagner play?
You and I both know NDS has had success, but IMO that does not warrant NDS fans carte blanche sarcasm (yes I have seen it for the last 2 years!).
In the words of Roy Kidd, long time EKU Coach and one of the MOST successful College HALL OF FAME coaches in all of DI. "When you win act like you have been there before"!

Since the OVC seemingly cannot win a playoff game, does that mean you don't have to act like you've been there before? :D

[Lehigh'98]

Personally I think neither SBU or Lehigh deserves an at large spot. Had either one gone out and beat any decent team from a major conference I might feel differently. It is similar to the NCAA basketball tournament where certain conferences teams need to win the autobid if they want to be in. To say the Patriot or Big South is on equal footing with the CAA, Southern, MVFC, or Big Sky is wrong. Heck they aren't even close to the Southland or OVC and those conferences rarely get 2 teams in.

If one of them gets in my gut is it will be SBU due to the solid win over Army. I mean just take the Valley for example (simply because I know these teams schedules and records better than other major conferences). Indiana State and Youngstown State (with a win over Indiana State) would have better resumes than either SBU or Lehigh. It might be hard for these fans to hear, but these teams played great teams week in and week out. They have proven they can play with the best. Lehigh and SBU have not proven they can play with the best. They might be able to, but without showing it and not winning your autobid you do not deserve that opportunity.

Not for nothing, but I have zero interest in seeing Youngstown St in the playoffs. They have been blown out by all good MVFC competition they played and have 4 losses. I would bet everything I own they don't win a championship. That is all. will reserve opinion until all dust has settled this Saturday.

[sgt smash]

Juvenile sarcastic remark, trying to be cute /funny. xcrazyx
Have you ever seen an OVC team play in person? For that matter have you seen Wagner play?
You and I both know NDS has had success, but IMO that does not warrant NDS fans carte blanche sarcasm (yes I have seen it for the last 2 years!).
In the words of Roy Kidd, long time EKU Coach and one of the MOST successful College HALL OF FAME coaches in all of DI. "When you win act like you have been there before"!


Troll success!! Thanks for coming out.

[ekufbfan]

Since the OVC seemingly cannot win a playoff game, does that mean you don't have to act like you've been there before? :D
We (EKU) have CERTAINLY BEEN THERE before. More playoff appearances than most on here with a few exceptions (and NDS is NOT one of them). And add 4 trips to National Chamionship game and 2 National Championships (if you care o do your homework you would have KNOWN that).




Originally Posted by ekufbfan

Juvenile sarcastic remark, trying to be cute /funny.
Have you ever seen an OVC team play in person? For that matter have you seen Wagner play?
You and I both know NDS has had success, but IMO that does not warrant NDS fans carte blanche sarcasm (yes I have seen it for the last 2 years!).
In the words of Roy Kidd, long time EKU Coach and one of the MOST successful College HALL OF FAME coaches in all of DI. "When you win act like you have been there before"!


Troll success!! Thanks for coming out.

Is that the best you've got? BTW, I have been a member of this forum for quite some time (longer than you, as if that makes a difference) .

[ekufbfan]

Since the OVC seemingly cannot win a playoff game, does that mean you don't have to act like you've been there before? :D
We (EKU) have CERTAINLY BEEN THERE before. More playoff appearances than most on here with a few exceptions (and NDS is NOT one of them). And add 4 trips to National Chamionship game and 2 Natioinal Championships (if you care o do your homework you would have KNOWN that).



Posts: 283




Re: Stony Brook and Lehigh add to playoff selection mess








Originally Posted by ekufbfan

Juvenile sarcastic remark, trying to be cute /funny.
Have you ever seen an OVC team play in person? For that matter have you seen Wagner play?
You and I both know NDS has had success, but IMO that does not warrant NDS fans carte blanche sarcasm (yes I have seen it for the last 2 years!).
In the words of Roy Kidd, long time EKU Coach and one of the MOST successful College HALL OF FAME coaches in all of DI. "When you win act like you have been there before"!


Troll success!! Thanks for coming out.

Is that the best you've got? BTW, I have been a member of this forum for quite some time (probably longer than you, a if that makes a difference) .

[UNIFanSince1983]

Not for nothing, but I have zero interest in seeing Youngstown St in the playoffs. They have been blown out by all good MVFC competition they played and have 4 losses. I would bet everything I own they don't win a championship. That is all. will reserve opinion until all dust has settled this Saturday.

I am not saying I want to see them in either. I don't think they are deserving as well, however, they do have a better resume than both Lehigh and SBU (if they win this weekend). I would like YSU's chances in the playoffs more than Lehigh and SBU simply because they have played tough teams week in and week out. This argument will be worthless after this weekend because Indiana State will most likely give YSU their 5th loss and that will eliminate them from the playoffs.

[sgt smash]

We (EKU) have CERTAINLY BEEN THERE before. More playoff appearances than most on here with a few exceptions (and NDS is NOT one of them). And add 4 trips to National Chamionship game and 2 National Championships (if you care o do your homework you would have KNOWN that).






Is that the best you've got? BTW, I have been a member of this forum for quite some time (longer than you, as if that makes a difference) .

So exactly what is the process for a wiener measuring contest via interwebz?

[MTfan4life]

We (EKU) have CERTAINLY BEEN THERE before. More playoff appearances than most on here with a few exceptions (and NDS is NOT one of them). And add 4 trips to National Chamionship game and 2 National Championships (if you care o do your homework you would have KNOWN that).


Rawr. We were really good during the Carter and Reagan administrations so everyone should give us respect even though we're 30 years removed from our last national championship. Rawr. We rank second in all-time playoff appearances, but a measly ninth in all-time wins, and we're not even Top 15 in winning percentage among teams who have played at least 10 games. Rawr. We were given a home playoff game last year and our attendance was the least amount for a playoff game since 1991. Rawr. We have lost 11 times in the first round and 5 first round games in a row. Rawr. If you did your homework, you would know that since our last NC we have a .333 winning percentage in the playoffs. (8 wins 16 losses) Rawr. I think I should go look up the term "has been." Meow.

[BisonFan02]

Rawr. We were really good during the Carter and Reagan administrations so everyone should give us respect even though we're 30 years removed from our last national championship. Rawr. We rank second in all-time playoff appearances, but a measly ninth in all-time wins, and we're not even Top 15 in winning percentage among teams who have played at least 10 games. Rawr. We were given a home playoff game last year and our attendance was the least amount for a playoff game since 1991. Rawr. We have lost 11 times in the first round and 5 first round games in a row. Rawr. If you did your homework, you would know that since our last NC we have a .333 winning percentage in the playoffs. (8 wins 16 losses) Rawr. I think I should go look up the term "has been." Meow.

HAHA!!

[Kramden]

NDSU is still winning though. Colgate beat a Lehigh who people were questioning all year long.

sgt smash, why are you so hung up on the Patriot League? Small Private Schools, No Scholarships (yet) and an academinc index that makes it difficult toattract the depth of athletes you can get in the power conferences. It is a very special student athlete that goes to a PL school; ones that go on in life and do more than live on their football experiecnes.You should be more concerned with the CAC if you're hung up on Northeastern Schools.

[ekufbfan]

So exactly what is the process for a wiener measuring contest via interwebz?

Another prime example of juvenile little boy throwing out obnoxious and vulgar comments that mean nothing because he can hide behind a compute and has NO idea to whom he is replying. Pathetic!


Rawr. We were really good during the Carter and Reagan administrations so everyone should give us respect even though we're 30 years removed from our last national championship. Rawr. We rank second in all-time playoff appearances, but a measly ninth in all-time wins, and we're not even Top 15 in winning percentage among teams who have played at least 10 games. Rawr. We were given a home playoff game last year and our attendance was the least amount for a playoff game since 1991. Rawr. We have lost 11 times in the first round and 5 first round games in a row. Rawr. If you did your homework, you would know that since our last NC we have a .333 winning percentage in the playoffs. (8 wins 16 losses) Rawr. I think I should go look up the term "has been." Meow.

I have no quarrel with you. Why you chose to involve yourself is a mystery to me, unless you were tyring to be "cute"?
I understand today's "youth" and some folks mentality. ( Let's see how much we can put down everyone else so we can feel better about ourselves). I get it. Hope you enjoyed yourselves.
All of you might step back and think that not everyone on here is 15 years old or has the mentality of a 15 year old. Not everyone here is male either and those of you "trying" to make a point by reference to the the male anatomy only reinforce stupidity.

[MTfan4life]

I have no quarrel with you. Why you chose to involve yourself is a mystery to me, unless you were tyring to be "cute"?


Why I chose to involve myself? Am I for some reason not entitled to respond to you? "Only a specific list of people can respond to my drivel!" I didn't reply to you because of any quarrel. I responded because I've seen your incessant bragging about EKU's playoff numbers a couple times too often as of late, so I figured I'd provide some facts about the very same team you had been providing facts about. I didn't think you were telling the whole story about Eastern Kentucky and felt the need to help you out. If you have a problem with people responding to you, I don't think this is the right site for you.

not everyone on here is 15 years old or has the mentality of a 15 year old.
However, ironically every time you get upset, it seems to me you are just that. Carry on.

[ekufbfan]

[QUOTE=MTfan4life;1891646]Why I chose to involve myself? Am I for some reason not entitled to respond to you? "Only a specific list of people can respond to my drivel!" I didn't reply to you because of any quarrel. I responded because I've seen your incessant bragging about EKU's playoff numbers a couple times too often as of late, so I figured I'd provide some facts about the very same team you had been providing facts about. I didn't think you were telling the whole story about Eastern Kentucky and felt the need to help you out. If you have a problem with people responding to you, I don't think this is the right site for you.

However, ironically every time you get upset, it seems to me you are just that. Carry on.[/

I
Please SHOW me where I have "incessantly bragged " about EKU! I stated facts regarding EKU's playoff appearances. No more no less.
Misconstrue it anyway you please, but that's the facts. I am a little late in realizing that there are those on here looking for a junior high argument. Have at it junior, respond to your little heart's content!

[sgt smash]

Ekufbfan, I see I offended you. For that I apologize. I was just referring to the OVC as of late. Perhaps in the next few weeks I will get proven wrong. If so, I will happily eat crow with your choice of wing sauce. (I said "wiener" because I was unsure of how the filters were on this site. On another message board I am on, it takes and instance of the word "cock" and replaces it with "shanshtooker ". Thus making harmless words suck as Hitchcock, cockpit, cocker spaniel, and petcock get flagged and changed into something that makes no sense. So

[sgt smash]

Rawr?

[Wallace]

I have been a member of this forum for quite some time

Good to see you again ekufbfan, and yes there are those of us on here that appreciate the longterm success EKU continues to have. Go Colonels!

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

People want to talk about precedent...what has the committee done in the past that will make you think a Patriot League team would get an at-large bid over SoCon co-champs Wofford, or an 8-win Indiana State with a win over NDSU, Sam Houston State, or pretty much any CAA team who is 8-3?

I think Lehigh deserves a chance...just not over any team that finishes in one of the power conferences with at least 8 wins.

[LehighDad]

After Saturday when Lehigh becomes 10-1 they deserve the at-large bid. They can beat any team on any given Saturday if given a chance. Remember, anything is possible... Lehigh BEAT Duke!!!!

[danefan]

After Saturday when Lehigh becomes 10-1 they deserve the at-large bid. They can beat any team on any given Saturday if given a chance. Remember, anything is possible... Lehigh BEAT Duke!!!!


Why does Lehigh deserve it any more than an 8-3 team from a power conference that has an FBS win?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Why does Lehigh deserve it any more than an 8-3 team from a power conference that has an FBS win?


At some point you have to have confidence in a teams ability to succeed. At 10-1 you know the team can win games, especially on the road, 5-0. If the only way to get a bid is by going 11-0 than there's a serious problem imo. Lehigh had not lost a league game in over three years. At some point the law of averages are going to catch up with you. I don't care if your Lehigh, NDSU, Alabama or Mt. Union, it will.

I honestly don't believe the Patriot League is looked down upon to the people who matter like it is on a message people where 90% of the people don't really have a clue. I believe their is a serious level of ignorance that just keeps escalating on this board about the league. It's a bit ridiculous.

Lehigh is the only program to reach the FCS playoffs, and win a game, in each decade. Reached the title game
Colgate has reached the title game in the last decade and has TWO Payton winners to their name
Holy Cross has had a Heisman finalist, fielded arguably the greatest 1AA/FCS team in history.
Lafayette has had very good teams.
Fordham has put guys in the NFL

I'm not saying the PL is the Big Sky or SoCon but these are legitimate FCS programs with winning traditions. Lehigh is a Top 15/20 FCS/1AA program of all time. Colgate is up there as well. The PL schools recruit top notch kids from top shelf football areas of the country, PA, NJ, MD, VA.

[danefan]

At some point you have to have confidence in a teams ability to succeed. At 10-1 you know the team can win games, especially on the road, 5-0.

I honestly don't believe the Patriot League is looked down upon to the people who matter like it is on a message people where 90% of the people don't really have a clue. I believe their is a serious level of ignorance that just keep escalating on this board about the league. It's a bit ridiculous.

Lehigh is the only program to reach the FCS playoffs, and win a game, in each decade. Reached the title game
Colgate has a reached the title game in the last decade and has TWO Payton winners to their name
Holy Cross has had a Heisman finalist, fielded arguably the greatest 1AA/FCS team in history.
Laafayette has had very good teams.
Fordham has put guys in the NFL

I'm not saying the PL is the Big Sky or SoCon but these are legitimate FCS programs with winning traditions. Lehigh is a Top 15/20 FCS/1AA program of all time. Colgate is up there as well. The PL schools recruit top notch kids from top shelf football areas of the country, PA, NJ, MD, VA.

I don't disagree with any of the above.

But I don't know if that is enough especially in this abhoration of a year. There is nothing on Lehigh's current resume that has them standing out in the crowd. That's my only point.

[Engineer86]

People want to talk about precedent...what has the committee done in the past that will make you think a Patriot League team would get an at-large bid over SoCon co-champs Wofford, or an 8-win Indiana State with a win over NDSU, Sam Houston State, or pretty much any CAA team who is 8-3?

I think Lehigh deserves a chance...just not over any team that finishes in one of the power conferences with at least 8 wins.

Other than NDSU, all of the teams you mentioned actually are considered only 7 win teams. Lehigh is considered a 10 win team. Not arguing the point, since it is opinion, I am just clarifying the facts.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

People want to talk about precedent...what has the committee done in the past that will make you think a Patriot League team would get an at-large bid over SoCon co-champs Wofford, or an 8-win Indiana State with a win over NDSU, Sam Houston State, or pretty much any CAA team who is 8-3?

I think Lehigh deserves a chance...just not over any team that finishes in one of the power conferences with at least 8 wins.

I wonder if the committee uses the term "power conference"...anyway

PL at-large history

1998 Colgate 7-4, could you imagine a 7-4 PL team getting in now? The dumbtards would off themselves...
1999 Lehigh 10-1
2004 Lehigh 9-2
2005 Lafayette 8-3

Lafayette would have received a bid in '09 at 9-2 had they beaten Lehigh. Only '03 Lehigh was surprisingly left out. Their 3 losses came against teams that were a combined 31-3, 12-0 Colgate, 10-0 Penn and 9-3 FBS Uconn.

[LUHawker]

I don't disagree with any of the above.

But I don't know if that is enough especially in this abhoration of a year. There is nothing on Lehigh's current resume that has them standing out in the crowd. That's my only point.

You mean other than potentially 10 wins?

[danefan]

You mean other than potentially 10 wins?


Yes. Other than 10 wins.

Lets sum up Lehigh's credentials for the at-large. I think this is bascially what the Committee will look at.

This assumes Lehigh wins this weekend.


Tangibles:
10 DI wins
1 loss to unranked Colgate
Avg. Margin of Victory - 9 pts.
No wins against ranked teams.
Best win is over a currently 5-5 Liberty (this might gain slightly more weight if Liberty wins the AQ)
Currently no wins over any playoff participants (this would change if Liberty wins the AQ)
No wins over any teams from the CAA, Socon, MVFC, or Big Sky (aka the "Power Conferences")
Ranked in the TSN and Coaches' Poll.
Massey SOS - 82nd in FCS

Intangibles:
Recent Playoff success

Wins over Towson and UNI
Lehigh is the only program to reach the FCS playoffs, and win a game, in each decade. Reached the title game


The Patriot League is a middle-of the road conference in FCS - not bad, but not top notch.

Colgate has a reached the title game in the last decade and has TWO Payton winners to their name
Holy Cross has had a Heisman finalist, fielded arguably the greatest 1AA/FCS team in history.
Laafayette has had very good teams.
Fordham has put guys in the NFL


Am I missing anything? Am I off base on anything above?

Is that an at-large resume? I certainly wouldn't be comfortable on Sunday morning.

[LUHawker]

Yes. Other than 10 wins.

Lets sum up Lehigh's credentials for the at-large. I think this is bascially what the Committee will look at.

This assumes Lehigh wins this weekend.


Tangibles:
10 DI wins
1 loss to unranked Colgate
Avg. Margin of Victory - 9 pts.
No wins against ranked teams.
Best win is over a currently 5-5 Liberty (this might gain slightly more weight if Liberty wins the AQ)
Currently no wins over any playoff participants (this would change if Liberty wins the AQ)
No wins over any teams from the CAA, Socon, MVFC, or Big Sky (aka the "Power Conferences")
Ranked in the TSN and Coaches' Poll.
Massey SOS - 82nd in FCS

Intangibles:
Recent Playoff success

Wins over Towson and UNI
Lehigh is the only program to reach the FCS playoffs, and win a game, in each decade. Reached the title game


The Patriot League is a middle-of the road conference in FCS - not bad, but not top notch.

Colgate has a reached the title game in the last decade and has TWO Payton winners to their name
Holy Cross has had a Heisman finalist, fielded arguably the greatest 1AA/FCS team in history.
Laafayette has had very good teams.
Fordham has put guys in the NFL


Am I missing anything? Am I off base on anything above?

Is that an at-large resume? I certainly wouldn't be comfortable on Sunday morning.

Does the Committee consider margin of victory? I have no idea. Would be surprised if they used this as a criteria. Isn't a W, a W?

Wins over potentiallytwo conference co-champs (Princeton & Liberty)

I don't know how much past performance really influences current thinking, but I believe it has some influence and Lehigh's record and regular ranking over the past 3 years probably carries some weight, even if only qualitatively.

Lastly, I think the Committee has demonstrated that it rewards teams with high win counts. I'm not referencing the PFL, which is non-scholly in both name and deed, but teams from auto-bid conferences.

I think the Committee will be hard-pressed to leave out a 10 DI win team, if for no other reason that it sends the wrong message.

[danefan]

Does the Committee consider margin of victory? I have no idea. Would be surprised if they used this as a criteria. Isn't a W, a W?
Strength of schedule is a factor. When you have a weak SoS, you need to show you blew out the teams you played. Lehigh did not.

Wins over potentiallytwo conference co-champs (Princeton & Liberty)
Wins over champions of two of the weaker/middle level leagues won't get you much, especially when those teams have less than stellar years themselves.

I don't know how much past performance really influences current thinking, but I believe it has some influence and Lehigh's record and regular ranking over the past 3 years probably carries some weight, even if only qualitatively.
It will have an effect as Lehigh is not a fly-by-night program (a la San Diego).

Lastly, I think the Committee has demonstrated that it rewards teams with high win counts. I'm not referencing the PFL, which is non-scholly in both name and deed, but teams from auto-bid conferences.
It has never rewarded teams with high win totals from any conferences other than the traditional power conferences or those that have been co-champs from the weaker conferences (e.g., MEAC, OVC).

I think the Committee will be hard-pressed to leave out a 10 DI win team, if for no other reason that it sends the wrong message.
Letting Lehigh in with a weak SoS and no signature wins sends the wrong message. The Committee has always rewarded tough OOC scheduling.

I'll play devil's advocate and counter almost every point above.

[LUHawker]

Does the Committee consider margin of victory? I have no idea. Would be surprised if they used this as a criteria. Isn't a W, a W?
Strength of schedule is a factor. When you have a weak SoS, you need to show you blew out the teams you played. Lehigh did not.

Wins over potentiallytwo conference co-champs (Princeton & Liberty)
Wins over champions of two of the weaker/middle level leagues won't get you much, especially when those teams have less than stellar years themselves.

I don't know how much past performance really influences current thinking, but I believe it has some influence and Lehigh's record and regular ranking over the past 3 years probably carries some weight, even if only qualitatively.
It will have an effect as Lehigh is not a fly-by-night program (a la San Diego).

Lastly, I think the Committee has demonstrated that it rewards teams with high win counts. I'm not referencing the PFL, which is non-scholly in both name and deed, but teams from auto-bid conferences.
It has never rewarded teams with high win totals from any conferences other than the traditional power conferences or those that have been co-champs from the weaker conferences (e.g., MEAC, OVC).

I think the Committee will be hard-pressed to leave out a 10 DI win team, if for no other reason that it sends the wrong message.
Letting Lehigh in with a weak SoS and no signature wins sends the wrong message. The Committee has always rewarded tough OOC scheduling.

I'll play devil's advocate and counter almost every point above.

So let me say what you avoided answering in my question #1: No.
I think we'll disagree that the Committee has not rewarded high win teams.
Last point: the Committee has NOT always rewarded tough OOC scheduling. How many bubble teams were left at home for scheduling and FBS loss over the years? Many.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Let me repeat this. Those trying to hammer Lehigh's SoS this year are conveniently ignoring the fact that Lehigh's SoS over the last five years have been very strong, and going into this season Liberty was considered a strong OOC game since they were perennial playoff contenders. It was only their massive slump to start the year, including a bad loss to Norfolk State, that suddenly made this game a "bad OOC game" - despite the fact that a win by them will make them no worse than Big South co-champs.

Two years ago, Lehigh schedule both Villanova and UNH, two playoff teams, and gave up a home game to play at Harvard, Ivy League champs.

Put it this way. When Lehigh scheduled a series with Villanova, they didn't know whether the Wildcats would be national champs or 3-8. Suppose Lehigh had scheduled a CAA team, say, William and Mary, like Lafayette did, and beat them, but the Tribe coasted to a 2-9 record. Would people still be trumpeting the fact that Lehigh's OOC is "bad"?

I really take exception where "letting a team in with a weak SoS sends the wrong message". Lehigh did NOT schedule like this ON PURPOSE to get into the playoffs, and has PROVEN OVER TIME they are willing to play good teams anywhere, mostly on the road. Lehigh doesn't have the luxury of playing Rutgers every year to "strenghen" their OOC slate.

[Lehigh'98]

There's so damn much that could happen this weekend, including us losing to the Lepers, no sense fighting about it now. I'm going to go enjoy the rivalry game, have a few drinks and do some scoreboard watching. 10-1 is a damn fine season, I'll take that and a loooooong Sunday afternoon.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There's so damn much that could happen this weekend, including us losing to the Lepers, no sense fighting about it now. I'm going to go enjoy the rivalry game, have a few drinks and do some scoreboard watching. 10-1 is a damn fine season, I'll take that and a loooooong Sunday afternoon.

+1

[Sader87]

I'm just glad that someone beside me posted that the 1987 Holy Cross team may have been the best FCS team ever....xnodx

[MTfan4life]

When it comes down to it, everyone trying to guarantee their own opinions about the committee's thoughts is just hopeful speculation. The only message that needs to be taken is that the NCAA football season is to decide one champion. If your team has encountered multiple losses, there's no use complaining that you weren't given another chance. Advancing to the playoffs does not mean that you are one of the top 20 teams. It just means that you haven't played your way out of the championship quite yet. In my mind it's about playing your way out comparatively to the rest of the field, rather than entirely playing your way in. I think it's more about number of losses more than number of wins. In some conferences, the damage of one loss is higher than others, but there's no security when your team has more than two FCS losses, IMO.

[danefan]

Let me repeat this. Those trying to hammer Lehigh's SoS this year are conveniently ignoring the fact that Lehigh's SoS over the last five years have been very strong, and going into this season Liberty was considered a strong OOC game since they were perennial playoff contenders. It was only their massive slump to start the year, including a bad loss to Norfolk State, that suddenly made this game a "bad OOC game" - despite the fact that a win by them will make them no worse than Big South co-champs.

Two years ago, Lehigh schedule both Villanova and UNH, two playoff teams, and gave up a home game to play at Harvard, Ivy League champs.

Put it this way. When Lehigh scheduled a series with Villanova, they didn't know whether the Wildcats would be national champs or 3-8. Suppose Lehigh had scheduled a CAA team, say, William and Mary, like Lafayette did, and beat them, but the Tribe coasted to a 2-9 record. Would people still be trumpeting the fact that Lehigh's OOC is "bad"?

I really take exception where "letting a team in with a weak SoS sends the wrong message". Lehigh did NOT schedule like this ON PURPOSE to get into the playoffs, and has PROVEN OVER TIME they are willing to play good teams anywhere, mostly on the road. Lehigh doesn't have the luxury of playing Rutgers every year to "strenghen" their OOC slate.

Doesn't matter whether it was on purpose.

[URMite]

I'm just glad that someone beside me posted that the 1987 Holy Cross team may have been the best FCS team ever....xnodx

Possible thread hijack - Why wasn't Holy Cross in the playoff 1986-1991?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Possible thread hijack - Why wasn't Holy Cross in the playoff 1986-1991?

Nope, the CL/PL did not participate in the playoffs from 1986 until 1997.

HC in the Polls
1986 #5
1987 #1
1988 NR
1989 #4
1990 #8
1991 #3

I don't think it's a thread hijack. The PL has produced great teams over the last 25 years. Lafayette in '88 and Lehigh in '91 were also big time teams but never had a chance. It's unfortunate the "unique" belief system makes it difficult for some outsiders to follow along. There's also a level of ignorance as well.

http://media.lehighvalleylive.com/lafayette_impact/photo/frank-baur-on-sports-illustrated-b553aab9dbbc6848.jpg

[ITmonarch10]

Nope, the CL/PL did not participate in the playoffs from 1986 until 1997.

HC in the Polls
1986 #5
1987 #1
1988 NR
1989 #4
1990 #8
1991 #3

I don't think it's a thread hijack. The PL has produced great teams over the last 25 years. Lafayette in '88 and Lehigh in '91 were also big time teams but never had a chance. It's unfortunate the "unique" belief system makes it difficult for some outsiders to follow along. There's also a level of ignorance as well.

http://media.lehighvalleylive.com/lafayette_impact/photo/frank-baur-on-sports-illustrated-b553aab9dbbc6848.jpg
That is one Fugly *** cover.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That is one Fugly *** cover.

Damn right. How did they get a Lafayette guy on there?

[Wallace]

Yes. Other than 10 wins.

Lets sum up Lehigh's credentials for the at-large. I think this is bascially what the Committee will look at...
Am I missing anything?

#42 in the current GPI.

[MTfan4life]

#42 in the current GPI.

Everyone mentioning the GPI is getting out of hand. In 2007, Eastern Illinois was 37 in the GPI, but was selected over #15 in the GPI Villanova, #21 Hofstra, and #29 Liberty. In 2006, Eastern Illinois was 26, while Portland State was left out at #10, and Northern Iowa at #12. In 2011, Eastern Kentucky was 33, but was selected over #14 Illinois State.

All in all, the committee has seemed to point out that the GPI doesn't carry as much weight as so many people on here believe.

[danefan]

Everyone mentioning the GPI is getting out of hand. In 2007, Eastern Illinois was 37 in the GPI, but was selected over #15 in the GPI Villanova, #21 Hofstra, and #29 Liberty. In 2006, Eastern Illinois was 26, while Portland State was left out at #10, and Northern Iowa at #12. In 2011, Eastern Kentucky was 33, but was selected over #14 Illinois State.

All in all, the committee has seemed to point out that the GPI doesn't carry as much weight as so many people on here believe.

Take a look at SCSU in 2010. I believe they were in the 50s!

[MacThor]

Take a look at SCSU in 2010. I believe they were in the 50s!

It's a good thing the MEAC has stepped up their playoff performance to justify that at large bid.