App Wins the SoCon autobid If...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Prerequisite: App beats Furman

If Chatty beats Wofford...
- three teams have 2 SoCon losses, App, Georgia Southern, and Chatty. App beat them both. APP SOCON CHAMPS

If Wofford beats Chatty...
- three teams have 2 SoCon losses, App, Georgia Southerm and Wofford
- All three went 1-1 against each other
- Next tiebreak is w/l against Chatty. All three would have beat Chatty
- Next tiebreak is w/l against Samford. Wofford lost to Samford. They lose that tiebreak.
- Down the line, App and Georgia Southern lost to The Citadel, and beat everyone else.

Does App win any further tiebreakers vs. Georgia Southern? Does it come down to something like Sag rating?

[theasushow]

Sag rating? xeyebrowx

[Mr. Pink]

I believe it goes to the best defense... Either that or App state gets it when the 3-way tie is broken if it just goes to two way rules. Its not quite clear on how that works...


Championship Determination Tie-breaking Procedures: The Southern Conference champion shall be the team that finishes with the best won-loss percentage in Conference games during the regular season. In the case that two or more schools finish with identical won-loss records, they shall be declared co-champions.

NCAA Automatic Bid Tie-breaking Procedures: The Conference champion shall be awarded an automatic bid to the NCAA FCS Playoffs, provided it is eligible to compete in the post-season under NCAA guidelines. In the event that co-champions are declared, the automatic bid will be awarded as follows:
A. In the case of a two-way tie, the automatic bid will be awarded to the winner of the game between the tied teams during the regular season;
B. In the event of a three-way tie, the won-loss records of the tied teams against each other is first considered (i.e., head to head concept). If the teams are still tied, then each team’s record against the highest seeded team not involved in the tie is considered. If the tie is still not broken, the teams’ won-loss record against the next highest seeded team not involved in the tie is considered and so on down the line until the tie is broken. If the tie is still not broken, the team with the fewest points allowed among the tied teams shall be considered. If this does not resolve the tie, then the automatic bid will be determined by a random draw conducted by the Commissioner;
C. In the event of multiple ties after a three-way tie, the same procedure as used to break a three-way tie will be applied until the tie is broken.

[Wallace]

Does it come down to something like Sag rating?

I can't think of any conference that uses Sagarin as a tiebreaker. Sagarin doesn't measure FCS opponents correctly so it would be crazy to use it alone.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I believe it goes to the best defense... Either that or App state gets it when the 3-way tie is broken if it just goes to two way rules. Its not quite clear on how that works...

No, it makes sense. There would be two teams left after the tie, App State and Georgia Southern. App State's defense let up 28 points, Georgia Southern gave up 31. App State thus doesn't care what happens in the Wofford game. Beat Furman, and they're SoCon champs. Amazing.

At-large teams must be seriously crying right now.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I can't think of any conference that uses Sagarin as a tiebreaker. Sagarin doesn't measure FCS opponents correctly so it would be crazy to use it alone.

You mean, like the MEAC?

[Wallace]

You mean, like the MEAC?

I mean like the NCAA which refuses to use Sagarin because all non-D-I teams are rated the same.

[sgt smash]

You mean, like the MEAC?

I cannot believe anyone would even bother to scroll down that far on the page.

[atlfcsfan]

App beats Furman and they are most likely get the auto bid.

they get tie breaker over a 3 way tie w Chatty and GSU

IF Wofford, GSU, App are 3 way tie then tie breaker goes based on conference finishes.

all 3 beat Chattanooga, so it would come down to games against Samford or Citadel

So depending on who finishes higher, Samford or Citadel in the conference standings then the tiebreaker goes like this:

Wofford lost to Samford, so then that would eliminate them and since App beat GSU, App wins autobid

Wofford beat Citadel and Ga Southern and App lost to them, so Wofford would get then autobid then


Sagarin ratings dont factor in.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

App beats Furman and they are most likely get the auto bid.

they get tie breaker over a 3 way tie w Chatty and GSU

IF Wofford, GSU, App are 3 way tie then tie breaker goes based on conference finishes.

all 3 beat Chattanooga, so it would come down to games against Samford or Citadel

So depending on who finishes higher, Samford or Citadel in the conference standings then the tiebreaker goes like this:

Wofford lost to Samford, so then that would eliminate them and since App beat GSU, App wins autobid

Wofford beat Citadel and Ga Southern and App lost to them, so Wofford would get then autobid then


Sagarin ratings dont factor in.

Thanks. The only way Wofford has a chance then is if Samford loses at Elon this weekend. If both Samford and The Citadel win their remaining SoCon games, Samford beat The Citadel 38-7 head-to-head, so would eliminate Wofford in the tiebreaker first.

Also, this assumes App beats Furman. If Furple somehow wins, then all the tiebreakers change in favor of Georgia Southern.

[GSUEagles#1]

App beats Furman and they are most likely get the auto bid.

they get tie breaker over a 3 way tie w Chatty and GSU

IF Wofford, GSU, App are 3 way tie then tie breaker goes based on conference finishes.

all 3 beat Chattanooga, so it would come down to games against Samford or Citadel

So depending on who finishes higher, Samford or Citadel in the conference standings then the tiebreaker goes like this:

Wofford lost to Samford, so then that would eliminate them and since App beat GSU, App wins autobid

Wofford beat Citadel and Ga Southern and App lost to them, so Wofford would get then autobid then


Sagarin ratings dont factor in.
According to the rules quoted above, it doesn't say that you eliminate a team and then do head-to-head between them, which would mean that GSU gave up less against the tied teams and would get the autobid.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

According to the rules quoted above, it doesn't say that you eliminate a team and then do head-to-head between them, which would mean that GSU gave up less against the tied teams and would get the autobid.

But Woffy would be eliminated from the tiebreaks at that point, so it would only be between the "tied teams", which would be App and Georgia Southern. App gave up 28, Georgia Southern 31, App is SoCon autobid winner.

[MTfan4life]

I can't think of any conference that uses Sagarin as a tiebreaker. Sagarin doesn't measure FCS opponents correctly so it would be crazy to use it alone.

Actually the Big Sky decided that as a last resort before a coin flip that it would risk drinking from the Sagarin kool-aid.

[T-Dog]

Amazing how we go from off the playoff bubble and not looking good to SoCon autobid probables in a span of a few hours.

[I-16Bandit]

Nm

[james_lawfirm]

App beats Furman and they are most likely get the auto bid.
they get tie breaker over a 3 way tie w Chatty and GSU
IF Wofford, GSU, App are 3 way tie then tie breaker goes based on conference finishes.
all 3 beat Chattanooga, so it would come down to games against Samford or Citadel
So depending on who finishes higher, Samford or Citadel in the conference standings then the tiebreaker goes like this:
Wofford lost to Samford, so then that would eliminate them and since App beat GSU, App wins autobid
Wofford beat Citadel and Ga Southern and App lost to them, so Wofford would get then autobid then

Sagarin ratings dont factor in.

OK, I agree with your conclusion here. I would only add that in the EXTREMELY unlikely event that co-champs go through the "head-to-head" and the second tiebreaker that compares record over the next seeded teams in the conference, and they are STILL TIED, then in that event, the NCAA rules say that the team with the FEWEST POINTS ALLOWED wins the AQ. No way App wins that comparison.

So, App fans should pull for (in this order): 1) App over Furman; 2) Chatty over Wofford; and 3) Samford over whoever & a Citadel loss.

[GSUEagles#1]

But Woffy would be eliminated from the tiebreaks at that point, so it would only be between the "tied teams", which would be App and Georgia Southern. App gave up 28, Georgia Southern 31, App is SoCon autobid winner.

It does not say that if one team has a loss that the others dont as you go down through the untied teams that you eliminate teams. If that was the case the rules would say that if one of the three teams tied loses to a team that the other two did not (in the order of ranking) that you drop that team and it goes head to head.. Highlight that part for me please.

[asknoquarter21]

I posted this in another thread but it is on page three now.

ASU wins the autobid if:
ASU beats Furman and Samford beats Elon Or Citadel loses to Furman Or Chattanooga beats Wofford

Wofford wins the autobid if:
Wofford beats Chattanooga and Elon beats Samford and Citadel beats Furman

GSU wins the autobid if:
Furman beats ASU

No other team can win the autobid. Chattanooga could finish with 2 losses, but both GSU and ASU hold tiebreaker over them

[atlfcsfan]

I posted this in another thread but it is on page three now.

ASU wins the autobid if:
ASU beats Furman and Samford beats Elon Or Citadel loses to Furman Or Chattanooga beats Wofford

Wofford wins the autobid if:
Wofford beats Chattanooga and Elon beats Samford and Furman beats Citadel

GSU wins the autobid if:
Furman beats ASU

No other team can win the autobid. Chattanooga could finish with 2 losses, but both GSU and ASU hold tiebreaker over them

I think your slightly wrong, Wofford would need Citadel to beat Furman so Citadel finishes ahead of Samford in the standings.

[eaglewraith]

But Woffy would be eliminated from the tiebreaks at that point, so it would only be between the "tied teams", which would be App and Georgia Southern. App gave up 28, Georgia Southern 31, App is SoCon autobid winner.

Does that points allowed mean just the single games between those in the tiebreaker or for all points allowed in conference games through the season?

Also, if it's just in the tiebreaker, you don't necessarily throw out the Wofford scores because they were eliminated.

[Mr. C]

I think your slightly wrong, Wofford would need Citadel to beat Furman so Citadel finishes ahead of Samford in the standings.

You are correct. The only scenario where Wofford wins the auto bid is The Citadel finishing fourth, ahead of Sanford. ASU holds most of the cards with a win over Furman.

[Mr. C]

OK, I agree with your conclusion here. I would only add that in the EXTREMELY unlikely event that co-champs go through the "head-to-head" and the second tiebreaker that compares record over the next seeded teams in the conference, and they are STILL TIED, then in that event, the NCAA rules say that the team with the FEWEST POINTS ALLOWED wins the AQ. No way App wins that comparison.

So, App fans should pull for (in this order): 1) App over Furman; 2) Chatty over Wofford; and 3) Samford over whoever & a Citadel loss.

Points allowed will not come into play with the SoCon auto bid.

[asknoquarter21]

I think your slightly wrong, Wofford would need Citadel to beat Furman so Citadel finishes ahead of Samford in the standings.

Yea, I see that. Fixed it

thanks

[seantaylor]

A 3 way tie will be a coin flip. You don't do head to head ever in that scenario where the teams have all beaten each other.

[Mr. C]

A 3 way tie will be a coin flip. You don't do head to head ever in that scenario where the teams have all beaten each other.
You do not know the protocol. All of the scenarios have been outlined above. If App State beats Furman, the Mountaineers get the auto bid in all cases, unless The Citadel finishes in fourth place. If three teams are tied, you look at the head-to-head, then you look at how the teams did against the next team in the standings.

[seantaylor]

You do not know the protocol. All of the scenarios have been outlined above. If App State beats Furman, the Mountaineers get the auto bid in all cases, unless The Citadel finishes in fourth place. If three teams are tied, you look at the head-to-head, then you look at how the teams did against the next team in the standings.

I'm talking about if Wofford wins. Some guy was saying that a 3 way tie goes to head to head when all else is eliminated between GSU, Appy, and Woffie. Not the case.

[Mr. C]

I'm talking about if Wofford wins. Some guy was saying that a 3 way tie goes to head to head when all else is eliminated between GSU, Appy, and Woffie. Not the case.

If Wofford wins, there will not be a coin toss. The first tiebreaker is head-to-head, which doesn't break the tie. The next criteria is who finishes fourth in the standings. The only way Wofford can get the auto bid is if Wofford beats Chattanooga, The Citadel beats Furman and Samford loses to Elon. If ASU loses to Furman, Georgia Southern wins the auto bid, based on its win over Wofford in a two-way tie. Chattanooga cannot win the auto bid in any scenario.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I can't think of any conference that uses Sagarin as a tiebreaker. Sagarin doesn't measure FCS opponents correctly so it would be crazy to use it alone.

Looking at the tiebreakers very closely, not only does the MEAC use it, so does the Big Sky and CAA.