Youngstown State is in Full Free Fall

[penguinpower]

I can't believe that this team started the year with a win over Pitt, and Albany, and UNI (which was playing good football at the time) and now have ended up looking like a team that couldn't beat a high school team. Wow! the difference that 4 weeks makes. They don't have any real significant injuries either. They are now dead last in the MVFC in turnovers and pass defense. I am not sure if they will win another game this year. I can't recall that I have ever seen anything like this at any level of football in my entire lifetime. Stunning.

[Twentysix]

I can't believe that this team started the year with a win over Pitt, and Albany, and UNI (which was playing good football at the time) and now have ended up looking like a team that couldn't beat a high school team. Wow! the difference that 4 weeks makes. They don't have any real significant injuries either. They are now dead last in the MVFC in turnovers and pass defense. I am not sure if they will win another game this year. I can't recall that I have ever seen anything like this at any level of football in my entire lifetime. Stunning.

I haven't been following YSU really closely since the NDSU game. I do recall in years past your HC would make horrendous choices, is he still up to these devious ways? E.g. he literally snatched defeat from the jaws of victory against NDSU in '10.

It was something like 1:08 remaining in the 4th qtr, NDSU has 1 timeout left, its 2nd and 11 YSU's ball, and YSU elects to pass the ball twice, one of which was an incompletion. By passing they only managed to take like 12 seconds off the clock. NDSU proceeds to win the game.

[No_Skill]

It's a head scratcher...no question.

[LakesBison]

its been unreal actually, crazy!

[clenz]

I was just thinking...where the hell have all the YSU fans gone?


Fair weather message board fans....been gone for years, so up for 4 weeks then go away again. Let's see if they still draw what the did for the super bowl of the season...the UNI game.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

High as #3.....

Would a 7-4 YSU team make it into the playoffs?

[Twentysix]

High as #3.....

Would a 7-4 YSU team make it into the playoffs?

Possibly they would be 7-4 with a pretty good FBS win by this years standards. Very dependent on the rest of the at large candidates.

[penguinpower]

I was just thinking...where the hell have all the YSU fans gone?


Fair weather message board fans....been gone for years, so up for 4 weeks then go away again. Let's see if they still draw what the did for the super bowl of the season...the UNI game.Probably licking their wounds.

[WrenFGun]

Possibly they would be 7-4 with a pretty good FBS win by this years standards. Very dependent on the rest of the at large candidates.

Given where they'd finish in conference (probably 5th) I doubt it.

[penguinpower]

Not trying to bring this topic up to the top of the board but does anyone know of another team that has done this without losing starters? When YSU was playing well we played Albany. I think they were playing well for the first qtr of NDSU and I am certain the NDSU fans saw what kind of players were on the field. I am at a loss to rationalize this. I will go as far as saying that Pitt wasn't very good when we played them, but I still remain baffled by the performances that they have put up. I have never seen anything like this. It is almost as if the coaching staff lost the team. Has anyone on this board ever seen anything like this? I know that they have the athletes but the way they have lost is dumbfounding. I have been a college football spectator for 30+ years and can't say that I have ever seen anything like this in my lifetime. I expected them to be a national title contender and this is in agreement with Phil Steele and several other people in the know. The coaching staff brought in a bunch of new people during the off season to get the defense some depth and did it with JUCO's and recruiting.

The offense and defense were int the top of the conference the first 4 games. They were obviously a bunch of pretenders ranked 3rd. They manhandled Pitt. They won a tough game against Albany and they beat a scrappy UNI team. So what has happened that they are not even competitive. I just do not understand how they could start turning the ball over and over and over on offense and special teams. Stupid turnovers too. They went from first to last in the conference in 4 games in TO margin. They do not have a freshman QB, which I would expect this from.

I feel that I have some wisdom when it comes to college football, especially at this level, but I cannot put my finger on it. Why would the FS let everyone get behind him almost every play? how could you lose you assignment discipline in these phases? I did not think the special teams were very good, but no changes on offense from last year and they led the FCS in many categories. Now they look average. The defense played very well and suddenly they can't or won't play as well. How does a team regress like this?

I trust many of the opinions on this board. There are some really outstanding college football fans here and people with a lot of wisdom so I am looking for some answers. I always want to point at talent, but I don't think talent is the case here. Does anyone have any answers? Albany's HC even said that YSU is stacked with talent, and I agree with him, so what say you?

[kingranch]

do not take this as chest pumping, but that was a serious deflating, *** woopin loss to ndsu, a team you guys beat last year, i am sure youre boys went into that game expecting a win. When that game turned out the way it did a lot of youre players lost their sense of direction. think about it, if you were an athlete and walked out of that game getting youre lunch handed to you wouldnt you think, how can we actually think national championship caliber team? Morality is huge with young men.

[Jacked_Rabbit]

To answer your question directly, no, I do not have another example of a Top 5 team free falling out of the top 25 with 4 straight losses. On the surface, this appears like a huge collapse, but I really don't think these 4 L's are that shocking once you take a closer look at things.

First, I think this is a product of two things: 1) YSU was slightly overrated at #3, and probably belonged more in the #8-12 range at the time of their loss to NDSU. A team ranked 8-12 can still clearly be considering a title contender, which I believe the Penguins have/had the talent to be this year And 2) The losses that YSU has had have come at the hands of some good, playoff-caliber, football teams. The margin of error in the Missouri Valley (or any other top conference) is very small, and the difference between being 3-1 & 1-3 (or 0-4 & 4-0 in this case) can come down to a play or two.

In order to take a closer look at how this happened, here my evaluation the 4 Penguin losses that have comprised this collapse:

Loss #1 @ NDSU: Fumbling on your opening series, allowing NDSU to score right away and gain all momentum, was all the Bison needed. When you are on the road, especially in a hostile environment like the Fargo Dome, things can snowball and get out of control in a hurry when you add fuel to the fire by making errors. No matter how you look at it, this was likely going to be a loss anyway.

Loss #2 @ IL St.: After jumping out to a 28-7 lead, it appeared as if the Penguins had put the previous week's loss behind them. The 2nd half, however, was a different story. Playing on the road against a good football team, the Redbirds gained momentum and came back to win by 7. A really tough loss that I'd argue was worse on team morale than the NDSU blow-out. Still, a very close loss to a good team on the road. On paper or before the season, this was probably a coin flip going, with an edge to Illinois St.

Loss #3 vs SIU: Neither a carbon copy of the Illinois St. game, YSU jumps out on top and appears to have the game in hand. For whatever reason, however, the Penguins come out in the second have and do not score any points for the second straight week. You begin to start wondering if the coaches aren't making the right adjustments at half, or is it something else? I feel this is the most painful loss thus far, not only because it is at home, but because of the 2nd half performance. Still, a loss to a solid football team that is in the playoff conversation, so its not like this was a massive upset.

Loss #4 @ SDSU: I feel this game was unfortunate timing for YSU more than anything else. Not only did the Guins catch SDSU coming off of their first loss since the season opener, but it was on Hobo Day, which - as dumb is it may sound - carries significant weight in Brookings. The Jacks grabbed momentum right from the get-go and never looked back. It almost appeared as if the YSU team came out flat or was still down in the dumps from the most painful loss of the season the previous week.


One or two plays in a couple of these games, and maybe Youngstown State is 3-1 or 2-2 instead of 0-4...

[penguinpower]

Thanks for the thoughts, however, I personally am not made up that way. If I lose at something it inspires me to be better and try harder. I understand what is being said and I especially appreciate the comments form Jacked Rabbit, but I just don't understand this mentality. Being from Y-town we come form a blue collar area and the odds are usually stacked against you. Y-town has great fighters, especially in boxing . Ray Mancini, Kelly Pavlik, and Harry Arroyo all fantastic world renowned boxers. That is the style that the NC championship teams took on in years past....fighters. To me basically what you are saying is that they have been beaten mentally. I just don't understand this concept. I understand that you will not win every game/fight, but you cannot give up. YSU has not recruited local talent since the new coach has been in office, perhaps there is a lack of mental toughness that is needed to win. Maybe that is what is being said.....no mental toughness.

Thank You for helping me with this.

[ElCid]

I know that it does not rise to the level you are seeing in YSU, but The Citadel collapse was pretty bad. YSU was ranked much higher and has a much better history of winning over the years. How did YSU beat Pitt and squeak out victories against Albany and NIU? Then lose four in a row? I don't think it is very hard to figure. I have thought the same about the Citadel. How did they beat Ga So and App St (at their house), then lose to NC St (badly) but also lose to Chatt, and Samford (also fairly bad loses)? I think they were just over ranked. YSU caught Pitt early, Albany is good, but the win was not that impressive, NIU is also pretty good, but the win was close at home. I am not sure that YSU should have been ranked as high as they were going into NDSU. The same applied to the Cid rise. Whoever gave The Citadel first place votes was on drugs. They caught a couple teams early and rode the momentum up the rankings only to meet the hard reality of the long haul in a tough conference, the same as YSU.

But I have to say, YSU did have a couple second half melt downs that defy understanding. Sorry.

[Lehigh'98]

Missing out on those old Steel Valley prospects. Bhs, Fitch, Cardinal Mooney, Ursuline and Harding. Talent is right under their nose. Tressel was fantastic at recruiting it. He used to visit Boardman all he time and speak to us when I played there

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I can't believe that this team started the year with a win over Pitt, and Albany, and UNI (which was playing good football at the time) and now have ended up looking like a team that couldn't beat a high school team. Wow! the difference that 4 weeks makes. They don't have any real significant injuries either. They are now dead last in the MVFC in turnovers and pass defense. I am not sure if they will win another game this year. I can't recall that I have seen anything like this at any level of football in my entire lifetime. Stunning.

I would compare it to the Citadel. Beat GSU and App. State in back to back weeks and and has since fallen apart.

[penguinpower]

Missing out on those old Steel Valley prospects. Bhs, Fitch, Cardinal Mooney, Ursuline and Harding. Talent is right under their nose. Tressel was fantastic at recruiting it. He used to visit Boardman all he time and speak to us when I played there


I think you may be on to something. Did you grow up in the area? Do you still reside there?

[penguinpower]

I would compare it to the Citadel. Beat GAY and App. State in back to back weeks and and has since fallen apart.

But what is the cause? Talent is there.

[Jacked_Rabbit]

Thanks for the thoughts, however, I personally am not made up that way. If I lose at something it inspires me to be better and try harder. I understand what is being said and I especially appreciate the comments form Jacked Rabbit, but I just don't understand this mentality. Being from Y-town we come form a blue collar area and the odds are usually stacked against you. Y-town has great fighters, especially in boxing . Ray Mancini, Kelly Pavlik, and Harry Arroyo all fantastic world renowned boxers. That is the style that the NC championship teams took on in years past....fighters. To me basically what you are saying is that they have been beaten mentally. I just don't understand this concept. I understand that you will not win every game/fight, but you cannot give up. YSU has not recruited local talent since the new coach has been in office, perhaps there is a lack of mental toughness that is needed to win. Maybe that is what is being said.....no mental toughness.

Thank You for helping me with this.

Mental toughness may not be the root cause of the issues, but I'd guess it surely has contributed to the slide. When you are in a tough situation (i.e. blowing a 21 point lead), you have to be able to play in the present and forget about how bad things are going. Unfotunately. mental toughness can only come from within - you can't rely on the coaching staff to teach or pull it out of you. It is up to each player on that team to look inside themselves, figure their **** out, rally around their teammates, and get the job done...

From what I've seen from Coach Wolford, he is really smart guy that has his stuff together. Watching the pregame interviews from last week, he broke down SDSU better than I've ever seen an opposing coach do so before. Seems like the type of guy I would have liked to play for. I can't speak to his recruiting abilities, but a lot of that falls directly onto his staff (I know, he is in charge of hiring them), but those are the guys that are buidling the relationships directly with the recruits - Wolford is simply closing the deal.

Regardless, I've got nothing but respect for the YSU program and with you all the best of luck the rest of the way. I expect a blowout win over a USD team that has to be even more mentally deflated right now.

[clenz]

Not trying to bring this topic up to the top of the board but does anyone know of another team that has done this without losing starters? When YSU was playing well we played Albany. I think they were playing well for the first qtr of NDSU and I am certain the NDSU fans saw what kind of players were on the field. I am at a loss to rationalize this. I will go as far as saying that Pitt wasn't very good when we played them, but I still remain baffled by the performances that they have put up. I have never seen anything like this. It is almost as if the coaching staff lost the team. Has anyone on this board ever seen anything like this? I know that they have the athletes but the way they have lost is dumbfounding. I have been a college football spectator for 30+ years and can't say that I have ever seen anything like this in my lifetime. I expected them to be a national title contender and this is in agreement with Phil Steele and several other people in the know. The coaching staff brought in a bunch of new people during the off season to get the defense some depth and did it with JUCO's and recruiting.

The offense and defense were int the top of the conference the first 4 games. They were obviously a bunch of pretenders ranked 3rd. They manhandled Pitt. They won a tough game against Albany and they beat a scrappy UNI team. So what has happened that they are not even competitive. I just do not understand how they could start turning the ball over and over and over on offense and special teams. Stupid turnovers too. They went from first to last in the conference in 4 games in TO margin. They do not have a freshman QB, which I would expect this from.

I feel that I have some wisdom when it comes to college football, especially at this level, but I cannot put my finger on it. Why would the FS let everyone get behind him almost every play? how could you lose you assignment discipline in these phases? I did not think the special teams were very good, but no changes on offense from last year and they led the FCS in many categories. Now they look average. The defense played very well and suddenly they can't or won't play as well. How does a team regress like this?

I trust many of the opinions on this board. There are some really outstanding college football fans here and people with a lot of wisdom so I am looking for some answers. I always want to point at talent, but I don't think talent is the case here. Does anyone have any answers? Albany's HC even said that YSU is stacked with talent, and I agree with him, so what say you?
So much to reply to here. Before I get to a "real" answer I will say "I told you so" to the YSU fans that were over the moon before the season, and during the first couple weeks. I've said the same thing to you every single year as there tends to be about 5 of you that flood here and CS at the start of the season talking about how great your program is, how great the team is going to be, how your coach is by far the best coach in the history of ever, etc...


Now....for some actual answers.

I've said from the start that you can't build a program on FBS outcasts and JUCO transfers. It doesn't work. A couple here or there is fine, but to build depth and a team on them will not work. I was told by YSU fans that i was wrong and that everything would be just fine. I can't/won't say this applies to all of those types of players (because it isn't). BUT most kids transfer from FBS schools for a couple reasons (those that don't leave to be legitmatly closer to home)- 1. They aren't that good and won't play there 2. They aren't smart enough to stay eligible 3. They went from big fish in small lake to small fish in massive lake and can't take the ego hit/butted heads with coaches 4. Couldn't grasp the system 5. Legal issues or 6. A combination of them all. Most JUCO's don't qualify coming out of HS for a variety of reasons, but there are some who just didn't get the looks they should of in HS. Building a team off of players like that DOESN'T WORK! The best programs build players from their freshman year on using red-shirting and training and using a limited amount of transfers to FILL HOLES where needed. If your entire team has holes that need to be filled - guess what you'll need to put up with a couple rough seasons to build the kids through the program for it to actually work.

You say it's like the coaches have lost the team - they likely have. Coaches in the best programs build from freshman up have a small grasp on their team as long as they are winning....That grasp can fade over time. A coach that is still "newish" building a program off of players who are FBS wash outs and JUCO transfers will lose a team very very very quickly as soon as one thing starts going wrong. It happens all the time to teams like that.

Until YSU builds from freshman up, and prove they aren't going to over-recruit with JUCO's and FBS transfers if a player doesn't perform instantly the coach will continue to lose players, just as you described. When players lose the coaches trust they "quit" when things start going back - and things like YSU this year happen....


Also, YSU was vastly over rated from the start....litterally never a top 10, or 15 team. I could have told you that after watching the UNI game this year. To struggle with the team UNI has out there this year, playing 4th stringers in the front 7 after having to replace 6 of them from last years team, and a freshman QB....Yeah....

[penguinpower]

Clenz,

Luckily communication is 95% interpersonal.

[Lehigh'98]

But what is the cause? Talent is there.

Yes almost 20 years ago from Boardman. In the 90s you were considered a great player if you could play for YSU, since Tressel left, well it doesn't seem the same. I don't live there anymore, but they don't have that winning mentality and I Agree with you about it being mental toughness.

[Sycamore51]

I remember being told at the start of the year that I didn't know what I was talking about when I said I didn't think YSU would be in the MVFC hunt this year. Based off of the inconsistent play from last year, I thought this year would look the same. Some good wins, but an equal amount of head scratching losses.

[mmiller_34]

It has taken South Dakota State two years to recover from our collapse in the 2009 playoffs....

[ysubigred]

But what is the cause? Talent is there.

What talent?? I see a bunch of guy that has no football sense/mental toughness. Good athletes' YES ~ football players NO. Wolford recruited a bunch of paper tigers.

Now to the bigger problem! The coaching staff!

That's all.

[Thunderstruck]

YSU @ NDSU
Marcus Williams pick 6 in the 2nd quarter as YSU was going in for the tying score. Could have been tied at 14, 14-10, or 14-7 still. Williams threw the bait and Hess took it. Pick 6 made it 21-7. That seemed to completely deflate YSU.

[Lehigh'98]

YSU @ NDSU
Marcus Williams pick 6 in the 2nd quarter as YSU was going in for the tying score. Could have been tied at 14, 14-10, or 14-7 still. Williams threw the bait and Hess took it. Pick 6 made it 21-7. That seemed to completely deflate YSU.

Right, but if you are a mentally tough squad like YSU used to be, one play shouldn't break your team. It should inspire them to play harder.

[clenz]

What talent?? I see a bunch of guy that has no football sense/mental toughness. Good athletes' YES ~ football players NO. Wolford recruited a bunch of paper tigers.

Now to the bigger problem! The coaching staff!

That's all.
I think pretty much every non-YSU fan said this while the YSU posters were bragging about B10/FBS off casts and JUCO transfers....not just me.


Sometimes it's better to not get caught up in the hype and listen to others.



Oh, and congrats on beating the worst UNI team in decades.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I think pretty much every non-YSU fan said this while the YSU posters were bragging about B10/FBS off casts and JUCO transfers....not just me.


Sometimes it's better to not get caught up in the hype and listen to others.



Oh, and congrats on beating the worst UNI team in decades.

Oh, you mean this thread?

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?118328-Youngstown-State-%284-0%29-North-Dakota-State-%284-0%29

Best post of the thread.


Some people on this board are delusional. If you tell me that these two teams are not evenly matched then you will lose credibility. These two teams have historically matched up well. Last year’s win was not a fluke; YSU flat out beat NDSU. Craig Bohl addressed this during his Monday press conference. For those of you in denial, I suggest that you watch it. This is a new year, and a new game so we will get to see how it plays out.
For those of you trying to use the UNI common opponent games as a gage, I suggest you look a the TO stat. The game was played evenly thru the first half. But giving the ball to NDSU was the difference in the game and when NDSU got up by two possessions they started sending the house on defense and they shut down UNI’s passing game. If you didn’t see that then you just don’t know football.
This should be a very good game. NDSU has the advantage being at home. The horse is dead so stop beating it.

[clenz]

Oh, you mean this thread?

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?118328-Youngstown-State-%284-0%29-North-Dakota-State-%284-0%29

Best post of the thread.
Yep.....At least they still show their face here....


I haven't seen a YSU fan on CS since the YSU/NDSU game started....

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Yep.....At least they still show their face here....


I haven't seen a YSU fan on CS since the YSU/NDSU game started....

in PP's defense, he has been as flabbergasted by all this as anyone. He's the OP in this thread so he has been nothing if not contrite.

[kdinva]

I can't believe that this team started the year with a win over Pitt......

........and this is hurting Va. Tech's SOS data........ :D

[citdog]

We discussed the penguins fall on the FCS Wedge this week. look in the top left corner of your screen and press play.

[clenz]

in PP's defense, he has been as flabbergasted by all this as anyone. He's the OP in this thread so he has been nothing if not contrite.
Touche....

[ysubigred]

Yep.....At least they still show their face here....


I haven't seen a YSU fan on CS since the YSU/NDSU game started....

xblehx Damn Stevie Wonder I'm on there every day and on here since Sep 2005. I read more than I post over on CS. It's just silly to have the same **** on two different boards with virtually the same posters.

Carry on xblahx

Oh by the way; UNI sucks every year xsmileyclapx

[clenz]

Oh by the way; UNI sucks every year xsmileyclapx
It must really suck to lose 11 of 12 to a annually crappy team....

It much really suck to suck....


Also, being here to post camel toe photos, or photos of girls that you'd "drink their bath water" (amazingly disturbing, btw) is very different than being here to talk football....and only being on the football forum when your team is "good"

[ysubigred]

It must really suck to lose 11 of 12 to a annually crappy team....

It much really suck to suck....


Also, being here to post camel toe photos, or photos of girls that you'd "drink their bath water" (amazingly disturbing, btw) is very different than being here to talk football....and only being on the football forum when your team is "good"

I talk plenty of football also good team or bad. The other stuff is just for fun to keep posters coming back.

How many National Championships your team have again? UNI's been to the playoffs more than any other MVFC team and have nothing to show for it.

Maybe disturbing but do you like em' LOL!!

[clenz]

I talk plenty of football also good team or bad. The other stuff is just for fun to keep posters coming back.

How many National Championships your team have again? UNI's been to the playoffs more than any other MVFC team and have nothing to show for it.
Tressel cheated....well documented.



However, Wolford beat UNI - he gets a lifetime contract for doing that....no?

[ysubigred]

Tressel cheated....well documented.

However, Wolford beat UNI - he gets a lifetime contract for doing that....no?
All the successful one's cheat.

I hope not. I'd like to see that arrogant prick go!

J.k. about the UNI sucks thing.. You all have been at the head of the conference forever xbowx

[clenz]

I hope not. I'd like to see that arrogant prick go!

J.k. about the UNI sucks thing.. You all have been at the head of the conference forever xbowx
Is this seriously how quickly YSU turns on coaches?

Year 3 of the "savior coach" at YSU and his head is already being called for?


I swear I remember reading things like "He is the best coach in the MVFC" "He will turn the program back to title winners in just a couple years" "He is an amazing person", etc...


Now, 2.5 seasons later he is a prick, lost the team, recruits only paper tigers, should be fired, etc...?


Pardon my French - but WHAT THE ****?

[ysubigred]

Is this seriously how quickly YSU turns on coaches?

Year 3 of the "savior coach" at YSU and his head is already being called for?


I swear I remember reading things like "He is the best coach in the MVFC" "He will turn the program back to title winners in just a couple years" "He is an amazing person", etc...


Now, 2.5 seasons later he is a prick, lost the team, recruits only paper tigers, should be fired, etc...?


Pardon my French - but WHAT THE ****?

Not me!! I didn't like the hire from day one. Find one post where I said he's the savior coach? Also, don't lump me in with the fair weather YSU fan's. I'm sick and tired of our AD bringing local guys for jobs @ Y-Town. All the tallented coaches and football players get the hell out of there.

[penguinpower]

Same here. The jury is still out for me.

[penguinpower]

I admit when I am wrong. The way that they were playing at the beginning of the year was completely different thatn how they play now.

[ysubigred]

Hey Clenz.. Just so you know I'm not here hiding from the YSU boards either. Here's a post I started after the ISUr game.

http://ysupenguins.com/forum/index.php/topic,7319.0.html

[Bisonator]

It's a mystery. I had them pegged as the #2 team behind NDSU when the season started, almost had them ahead of NDSU after 4 games. Not sure if the blowout by NDSU got in their heads or the follow up loss. Hate it for coach Wolford he seems like a classy guy. Can't put the whole mess on anyone in particular though. At the end of the day the players need to execute better.