Is the OVC getting shafted in the polls?

[Maroons]

I'm wondering if the OVC is getting under-represented in all three polls? The OVC does not have a single team ranked in the top 15, and not one in the top 20 in the AGS poll. Is this the way it should be? Or is are we missing something?

This seems to be a critical discussion because success begets success the way these polls are setup. Unlike many of the decent FCS conferences, OVC teams can't expect a bump from conference games if they don't play any teams in the top 20. The "strength of schedule" problem compounds itself it no one is getting any love in the polls. Also, because the poll movement is so gradual (unless you dethrone an FBS giant), early season positioning has a lot to do with where a team ends up, and the OVC didn't show well in any preseason polls. So is it right?

Here's some info...

Yes (The OVC is getting shafted)
The OVC is 11-3 in FCS games with the only losses coming to SIU, Ill. State, and Central Arkansas.
The OVC has a win over the Southland Leader (SELA) and MVC leader (SIU)
The OVC has an FBS win (UT-Martin over woeful Memphis)
The OVC has a winning record in games against the Southern, MVC and Southland (4-3)

No (The OVC teams are where they should be)
The OVC has not won a playoff game since 1998
Most of the FCS wins are over the MEAC and SWAC (5-0)
The winning record against the Southern, MVC and Southland is barely a winning record

Discuss.

[Eagle22]

Biggest hurdle, IMO:

The OVC has not won a playoff game since 1998

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Biggest hurdle, IMO:

The OVC has not won a playoff game since 1998

That is an amazing stat!

[superman7515]

That is an amazing stat!

And everyone says that they can't vote for a MEAC team because they haven't won a game since 1999, so they'll put an OVC team over them... xrolleyesx

[Reign of Terrier]

Biggest hurdle, IMO:

The OVC has not won a playoff game since 1998

this.

[Maroons]

Yes... the 1998 statistic is embarrassing. But how much bearing should that have on THIS year? The polls are supposed to be about who the top 25 teams are THIS season. When you consider the non-conference stats, doesn't the OVC deserve better for THIS year?

Perhaps tomorrow I will dig into the abysmal OVC playoff record. Even without doing so, I can tell you that in nearly all of those years before they expanded the field, the OVC sent one team on the road against a powerhouse, so the outcomes aren't entirely surprising. Since the field has expanded, the OVC has had several near misses in the playoffs. Some have been home games... but I don't believe the OVC has played any "expected win" low-level auto-bid recipients, so nothing has come easy.

I think that the bias towards the long-view of history present on AGS probably accounts for why AGS doesn't have an OVC team in the top 20. You can see from the responses already to this question (and many of the threads on this board), that almost every argument is decided on the ledger of playoff success and everything becomes a conference pride pissing contest.

Oh, well... I hope the conversation can continue and we can discuss the merits of more than just the streak of playoff futility.

[dgtw]

There also aren't a lot of OVC fans on this site. I'm not saying people are being intenionally biased, but people are going to be more likely to support thhose they are more familiar with. (I don't vote because I don't know enough about the FCS teams as a whole).

I agree the no playoff wins thing is a major drawback. Until OVC teams start going deeper into the playoffs, respect isn't going to come. Getting an at large team in last year was impressive, however.

[Eagle22]

Well, the reason I pointed to playoff futility is I think it is a very valid reason.

Been watching the I-AA playoffs since 1985, and one perfect example of OVC futility that comes to mind is the 1999 Tennessee State Tigers, who were ranked #1 after Georgia Southern fell @ Appalachian State midseason.

When you get a team to carry the mantle of the conference, with a perfect regular season record, then hit the first round playoffs hosting at home and stumbles against an "expected win" low-level auto-bid recipients (as you wrote) in NC A&T, then you have to see what the rest of the country sees.

Pollsters, especially at the I-AA level, don't forget that type of performance, or lack thereof. IMO, it is going to take the OVC making some hay in the playoffs to earn those slots, or win some OOC games against some teams from conferences who historically have done well in the playoffs.

[LouiseBFree]

You've won a single game against a Southland team this season.

Congrats, I guess?



I'm wondering if the OVC is getting under-represented in all three polls? The OVC does not have a single team ranked in the top 15, and not one in the top 20 in the AGS poll. Is this the way it should be? Or is are we missing something?

This seems to be a critical discussion because success begets success the way these polls are setup. Unlike many of the decent FCS conferences, OVC teams can't expect a bump from conference games if they don't play any teams in the top 20. The "strength of schedule" problem compounds itself it no one is getting any love in the polls. Also, because the poll movement is so gradual (unless you dethrone an FBS giant), early season positioning has a lot to do with where a team ends up, and the OVC didn't show well in any preseason polls. So is it right?

Here's some info...

Yes (The OVC is getting shafted)
The OVC is 11-3 in FCS games with the only losses coming to SIU, Ill. State, and Central Arkansas.
The OVC has a win over the Southland Leader (SELA) and MVC leader (SIU)
The OVC has an FBS win (UT-Martin over woeful Memphis)
The OVC has a winning record in games against the Southern, MVC and Southland (4-3)

No (The OVC teams are where they should be)
The OVC has not won a playoff game since 1998
Most of the FCS wins are over the MEAC and SWAC (5-0)
The winning record against the Southern, MVC and Southland is barely a winning record

Discuss.

[mamberso]

Biggest hurdle, IMO:

The OVC has not won a playoff game since 1998

I'm pretty sure this comes to an end this season. Tennessee State and Eastern Kentucky are very good teams. I've been following OVC football since JSU joined in 2003. This is easily the best the conference has been since then. I wouldn't be surprised to see both EKU and TSU (or UT-Martin) get a victory in the playoffs.

[JMUNJ08]

I think a "flag holder" for the conference or at least a top 2/3 rivalry is really missing. I really see UTM/ EKU/ TST all on pretty equal footing this year and rank them all pretty close to each other. Unless one can break away (doubt it based on games already played) I think it will be hard for pollsters to get fully behind the conference.

As for the playoff victory VOID, or should I say CANYON, this is a big deal but see the point with early round whipping boy. I think the MEAC had a better shot more recently (Hampton having a seed in 05ish) but even when getting a seed or a home game, both conferences are in the footprint of the SOCON, MVC, CAA which would then send one of their more highly tested 7-4/ 8-3 teams in. EKU had a great shot against JMU last year but these are games that they may get another crack at again this year. Getting 2 of the 3 in is realistic but a seed isn't. Make your AD's bid up for a home game and roll the dice!

Wish the conference well and I will keep voting for them, but get a damn sig win! (just not against my Dukes or CAA conference)

[sgt smash]

...or does the first one out on selection Sunday get shafted because the OVC gets an auto-bid?

[Maroons]

I'll provide the OVC playoff record tomorrow, but I did look up the recent history and learned that my memory failed me. The OVC last won a playoff game in 2000. WKU won that year before they joined the Gateway. The last time a current member won was 1996. Murray State I believe.

Yes, it's true that the OVC is 1-1 against the Southland in 2012. I believe an OVC team plays UCA once more before the season is over. Thanks for your congratulations?

Mamberso, I wish I had your confidence. The way EKU is racking up injuries, it might have to be UTM.

[Maroons]

I think a "flag holder" for the conference or at least a top 2/3 rivalry is really missing. I really see UTM/ EKU/ TST all on pretty equal footing this year and rank them all pretty close to each other. Unless one can break away (doubt it based on games already played) I think it will be hard for pollsters to get fully behind the conference.

I think that is a very valid point. I don't think the OVC has one dominant team, either. Outside of Austin Peay, the conferene is pretty solid, which is certainly a change from the previous 20 years.

[taper]

FWIW, I had 2 OVC teams in my poll and another knocking last week. None in top 15 though. Haven't run this week's yet. There's been rumors for awhile about Youngstown moving for geographical reasons, they'd own OVC for years but might bring up the average.

[Twentysix]

FWIW, I had 2 OVC teams in my poll and another knocking last week. None in top 15 though. Haven't run this week's yet. There's been rumors for awhile about Youngstown moving for geographical reasons, they'd own OVC for years but might bring up the average.

The rumors are always about the CAA not the OVC. As far as I know anyhoo.

[frozennorth]

i had eku pretty high early in the year

[walliver]

The playoff history is the deal breaker. Winning early season games against OOC doesn't affect people's opinions much, especially against lower echelon teams in bigger conferences.

I will admit that the playoff situation is somewhat biased, as OVC (and MEAC) teams tend to get lower seeding, and frequently play top teams in the early rounds, which prevents wins. Maybe, the NCAA should let the OVC champ play the MEAC champ in the first round so that one league can break their streak.

[Engineer86]

The playoff history is the deal breaker. Winning early season games against OOC doesn't affect people's opinions much, especially against lower echelon teams in bigger conferences.

I will admit that the playoff situation is somewhat biased, as OVC (and MEAC) teams tend to get lower seeding, and frequently play top teams in the early rounds, which prevents wins. Maybe, the NCAA should let the OVC champ play the MEAC champ in the first round so that one league can break their streak.

Do you really think winning in the playoffs does that much on the positive side? I don't see it in the Patriot Leage. Colgate in the finals, Lehigh something like 5-2 in the first playoff game (first or secon round) they have played in.

Now I here that Lehigh's win against Princeton was only because Princeton must have had a different team playing Harvard yesterday.

[dgtw]

So if Tennessee State and Eastern Illinois both finish 6-1 in the league, who gets the autobid? They don't play each other due to TSU's seperate but equal schedule.

[Bam]

So if Tennessee State and Eastern Illinois both finish 6-1 in the league, who gets the autobid? They don't play each other due to TSU's seperate but equal schedule.

That is a whole new issue! Not sure why the other schools in the Conference agreed to this every year issue?

[WileECoyote06]

Well, the reason I pointed to playoff futility is I think it is a very valid reason.

Been watching the I-AA playoffs since 1985, and one perfect example of OVC futility that comes to mind is the 1999 Tennessee State Tigers, who were ranked #1 after Georgia Southern fell @ Appalachian State midseason.

When you get a team to carry the mantle of the conference, with a perfect regular season record, then hit the first round playoffs hosting at home and stumbles against an "expected win" low-level auto-bid recipients (as you wrote) in NC A&T, then you have to see what the rest of the country sees.

Pollsters, especially at the I-AA level, don't forget that type of performance, or lack thereof. IMO, it is going to take the OVC making some hay in the playoffs to earn those slots, or win some OOC games against some teams from conferences who historically have done well in the playoffs.
To be fair, TSU lost their starting QB, in the regular season finale. Also, the MEAC was much tougher back in 1999. A&T smacked conference bully FAMU in the mouth to, take the autobid. FAMU went on to capture the MEACs final two playoff victories that year.

As far as this year goes, both TSU And EKU are on the cusp, but they lost when they should, have had a breakthrough. I won't penalize TSU much though, because I heard it was a gift win for the gamecocks (ie homecooking).

[colonelblitz]

FWIW, I had 2 OVC teams in my poll and another knocking last week. None in top 15 though. Haven't run this week's yet. There's been rumors for awhile about Youngstown moving for geographical reasons, they'd own OVC for years but might bring up the average. lol....never owned it when they were in it before, won't own it again , even if we are dumb enough to let them back in again. Props to JMU they came to the lowly OVC and saw first hand how we play. Had they not played us first, they would have beaten NDSU.

[colonelblitz]

To be fair, TSU lost their starting QB, in the regular season finale. Also, the MEAC was much tougher back in 1999. A&T smacked conference bully FAMU in the mouth to, take the autobid. FAMU went on to capture the MEACs final two playoff victories that year.

As far as this year goes, both TSU And EKU are on the cusp, but they lost when they should, have had a breakthrough. I won't penalize TSU much though, because I heard it was a gift win for the gamecocks (ie homecooking). Geez.. It was a gift win that we gave TSU...

[DSUrocks07]

To be fair, TSU lost their starting QB, in the regular season finale. Also, the MEAC was much tougher back in 1999. A&T smacked conference bully FAMU in the mouth to, take the autobid. FAMU went on to capture the MEACs final two playoff victories that year.

As far as this year goes, both TSU And EKU are on the cusp, but they lost when they should, have had a breakthrough. I won't penalize TSU much though, because I heard it was a gift win for the gamecocks (ie homecooking).

Heard that too xwhistlex

False start on a MADE game winning field goal at the end of regulation. xcoffeex

[superman7515]

So if Tennessee State and Eastern Illinois both finish 6-1 in the league, who gets the autobid? They don't play each other due to TSU's seperate but equal schedule.



Two-Way Ties

(a) A two-way tie shall exist only if the tied teams have the same number of losses.

(b) Should two teams have the same number of losses, and the two teams played each other during the regular season, the winner of the head-to-head contest shall be the league’s postseason representative.

(c) If the two tied teams have the same number of losses, but did not play each other during the regular season, the following procedure shall be utilized to break the tie:

(1) A comparison of each team’s head-to-head record against the team occupying the highest position in the regular-season standings that each team has played. If one team won its game against that team, the winning team shall be declared the representative.

(2) Should the procedure outlined in Item a. fail to break the tie, the process will continue to the next-place team and beyond until the tie is broken.

(3) When arriving at another group of tied teams, composite records between the tying teams shall be utilized to determine if one of the tied teams has won more games against the group of tied teams.

(4) If the procedures described previously fail to break the tie, the representative shall be determined by a coin flip.


Multiple-Ties

(a) A multiple tie (three or more teams) shall exist only if the tied teams have the same number of losses.

(b) If all of the teams involved in the multiple tie played each other during the regular season, then the composite records among the tied teams shall be compared to break the tie.

(c) If the process outlined in Step 2 reduces the tie to a tie among two teams, the two-team tiebreaker formula shall then be utilized.

(d) If not all of the tied teams played each other during the regular season, or if step 2 does not break or reduce the tie, the following procedure shall be utilized:

(1) A comparison of each of the tied teams’ head-to-head record against the team occupying the highest position in the regular-season standings that each team has played. If one team won its game against that team, the winning team shall be declared the representative.

(2) Should the procedure outlined in Item a. fail to break the tie, the process will continue to the next-place team and beyond until the tie is broken.

(3) When arriving at another group of tied teams, composite records between the tying teams shall be utilized to determine if one of the tied teams has won more games against the group of tied teams.

(e) If the procedures described previously fail to break the tie, the representative shall be determined by a coin flip

[Eagle22]

To be fair, TSU lost their starting QB, in the regular season finale. Also, the MEAC was much tougher back in 1999. A&T smacked conference bully FAMU in the mouth to, take the autobid. FAMU went on to capture the MEACs final two playoff victories that year.

As far as this year goes, both TSU And EKU are on the cusp, but they lost when they should, have had a breakthrough. I won't penalize TSU much though, because I heard it was a gift win for the gamecocks (ie homecooking).

I am well aware that in 1999 the MEAC had two pretty good teams. Heck, FAMU should have played GSU in the finals instead of YSU, had they not choked that game away.

I don't penalize the OVC, because I'm not a voter in any poll. I'm just offering up my opinion.

EKU had some great teams back in the day, and the OVC had a different national perception. But there are shifts over time. Wofford used to be pretty bad when they first joined the SoCon, but they stepped up the scholarships and competed, and are certainly a more respected national entity as a result of them knocking off some teams in the playoffs, and getting as far as the semi's.

It is going to take a similar demonstration in order for OVC teams to register higher in the pre-season polls, then they'll have to keep winning to stay there. I recall GSU rightly falling all out of the Top 25 picture in 2006 when we had a horrid 3-8 season. In 2007, we had a SoCon championship caliber team that narrowly missed the playoffs at 7-4 with a Payton award winner under center. We've debated this for some time on my messageboard, but the fact that that GSU team started outside of the polls in the preseason, was a KEY component for us not being viewed as playoff-worthy by the rest of the nation. GSU missed an auto-bid AND a playoff shot by missing a last second field goal vs. Furman that was literally a judgement call by the official, it was that close.

[TTUEagles]

Heard that too xwhistlex

False start on a MADE game winning field goal at the end of regulation. xcoffeex
TSU's coach said it was the right call, so...xcoffeex

[Cocky]

Heard that too xwhistlex

False start on a MADE game winning field goal at the end of regulation. xcoffeex

Tell the left guard we thank him for moving. But TSU probably appreciated the facemask call for a first down to keep the final drive alive.

[DSUrocks07]

Tell the left guard we thank him for moving. But TSU probably appreciated the facemask call for a first down to keep the final drive alive.

I'd say that JSU should really thank the TSU QB for taking a sack in the OT period when he should have thrown the ball away.

Congrats on the win Cocks.

[ekufbfan]

FWIW, I had 2 OVC teams in my poll and another knocking last week. None in top 15 though. Haven't run this week's yet. There's been rumors for awhile about Youngstown moving for geographical reasons, they'd own OVC for years but might bring up the average.

Maybe you should check out what they did when they were a member,while they were competitive,they certainly did not OWN it!

[Cocky]

I'd say that JSU should really thank the TSU QB for taking a sack in the OT period when he should have thrown the ball away.

Congrats on the win Cocks.
We returned the favor in OT. Our boneheaded call on 3rd down was a typical Jack Crowe play call.

[Jazzman1522]

I want to answer this question with an emphatic yes, but I would be rightfully accused of bias. That being said, I completely understand why the OVC is where it is in the polls. But I think it gets taken a little too far. I read a lot of arguments around here that people make for their own teams that say things like, "Last year doesn't matter," and "This is why preseason polls suck!" But right from the beginning of this thread, the overwhelming argument against the OVC is its playoff drought, which, granted, is nearing Biblical proportions as far as droughts go. I hope that there's a better reason than that, because, if not, the only reason the OVC is so low in the polls this year is because of past performances that have no bearing on this year. Principally, that's no different than those arguments I just pointed out.

I don't disagree that the OVC hasn't earned its perception somewhat. But the OP showed some statistics that illustrate that it may not be as weak as everyone around here thinks. I do wish there was more opportunity to really tell. Since most teams only play 3 OOC games and most of them play at least 1 FBS team, you're looking at only 2 games against teams in other FCS conferences, on average.

[WileECoyote06]

I want to answer this question with an emphatic yes, but I would be rightfully accused of bias. That being said, I completely understand why the OVC is where it is in the polls. But I think it gets taken a little too far. I read a lot of arguments around here that people make for their own teams that say things like, "Last year doesn't matter," and "This is why preseason polls suck!" But right from the beginning of this thread, the overwhelming argument against the OVC is its playoff drought, which, granted, is nearing Biblical proportions as far as droughts go. I hope that there's a better reason than that, because, if not, the only reason the OVC is so low in the polls this year is because of past performances that have no bearing on this year. Principally, that's no different than those arguments I just pointed out.

I don't disagree that the OVC hasn't earned its perception somewhat. But the OP showed some statistics that illustrate that it may not be as weak as everyone around here thinks. I do wish there was more opportunity to really tell. Since most teams only play 3 OOC games and most of them play at least 1 FBS team, you're looking at only 2 games against teams in other FCS conferences, on average.

People who pay attention to conference ratings recognize this. The OVC despite it's drought is viewed as one of the middle-tiered FCS conferences; but it takes a few years to affect perception. Many computer polls rate the Southland as higher than the CAA this year; but when I brought this up the argument was thrown back that they are only rated higher because of their multiple games against FBS teams. Until both the MEAC and the OVC win some playoff games people will never budge on their opinion.

[Engineer86]

People who pay attention to conference ratings recognize this. The OVC despite it's drought is viewed as one of the middle-tiered FCS conferences; but it takes a few years to affect perception. Many computer polls rate the Southland as higher than the CAA this year; but when I brought this up the argument was thrown back that they are only rated higher because of their multiple games against FBS teams. Until both the MEAC and the OVC win some playoff games people will never budge on their opinion.

That still does not change things, patriot League has done it, but nothing changes.

[taper]

Maybe you should check out what they did when they were a member,while they were competitive,they certainly did not OWN it!

That was 25 years ago and means absolutely nothing to today's teams. I believe YSU would beat every OVC team this, last, and next year. There's still a chance YSU makes the playoffs so maybe we'll see.

[Cocky]

Im not sure YSU would be in the top 3 this year.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

That still does not change things, patriot League has done it, but nothing changes.

The Patriot League gets some respect. Outsiders still don't understand "our" scheduling philosophies though.

[Jazzman1522]

That was 25 years ago and means absolutely nothing to today's teams. I believe YSU would beat every OVC team this, last, and next year. There's still a chance YSU makes the playoffs so maybe we'll see.

BOOM!

[BisonFan02]

lol....never owned it when they were in it before, won't own it again , even if we are dumb enough to let them back in again. Props to JMU they came to the lowly OVC and saw first hand how we play. Had they not played us first, they would have beaten NDSU.

Wait...What? That's pretty funny.

[Nickels]

Wait...What? That's pretty funny.
Indeed xlolx

[Skyhawk71]

What planet does anyone think that YSU, was the last time or is now a geographical fit to the Ohio Valley Conference- the only thing Ohio is the name, and that's because of the river, not the state; I do hope that the OVC teams that do make the playoffs do get to play an MVC team, because as of late EKU gets the CAA and somehow the selection committee thought OVC-Big Sky could be a good match up.......as far as the playoffs note: In 2002, 2008 and 2010 during the losing streak, OVC auto-bid was defeated by the eventual National Champions.

[WrenFGun]

To answer the title question ... no, they are not.

[Dane96]

Yes... the 1998 statistic is embarrassing. But how much bearing should that have on THIS year? The polls are supposed to be about who the top 25 teams are THIS season. When you consider the non-conference stats, doesn't the OVC deserve better for THIS year?

Perhaps tomorrow I will dig into the abysmal OVC playoff record. Even without doing so, I can tell you that in nearly all of those years before they expanded the field, the OVC sent one team on the road against a powerhouse, so the outcomes aren't entirely surprising. Since the field has expanded, the OVC has had several near misses in the playoffs. Some have been home games... but I don't believe the OVC has played any "expected win" low-level auto-bid recipients, so nothing has come easy.

I think that the bias towards the long-view of history present on AGS probably accounts for why AGS doesn't have an OVC team in the top 20. You can see from the responses already to this question (and many of the threads on this board), that almost every argument is decided on the ledger of playoff success and everything becomes a conference pride pissing contest.

Oh, well... I hope the conversation can continue and we can discuss the merits of more than just the streak of playoff futility.

Remind me of the big wins for the OVC this year?

[ekufbfan]

Remind me of the big wins for the OVC this year?

Please remind me WHY we should be impressed with Albany? This is exactly what I was talking about in another thread. What has Albany done since they became FCS to have their 'fan' constantly throwing out sarcastic remarks. I can stomach it from an App State fan, they have earned my respect. Albany? You figure it out.

[WrenFGun]

Please remind me WHY we should be impressed with Albany? This is exactly what I was talking about in another thread. What has Albany done since they became FCS to have their 'fan' constantly throwing out sarcastic remarks. I can stomach it from an App State fan, they have earned my respect. Albany? You figure it out.

Where does he talk about Albany in his post? You can replace his username with "Mountaineer96" if it makes you feel better.

[344Johnson]

Props to JMU they came to the lowly OVC and saw first hand how we play. Had they not played us first, they would have beaten NDSU.

lol wow. Alright bro.

[Maroons]

Remind me of the big wins for the OVC this year?

I can't tell if your "Remind me..." is sarcasm or an honest question. Message boards can be ambiguous. I am going to assume you are sincere.

Here are the best OOC wins by each OVC team, ranked in my opinion from most impressive to least by team:
UT-Martin beat Memphis and SELA - Granted Memphis is a 1 win team right now, but still FBS. SELA has a losing record, but is 3-0 in the SLC
EIU beat SIU - Panthers rolled the Salukis 49-28 in week 1, then lost in 2OT at Ill. State two weeks later.
JSU beat Chattanooga - Mocs are building a good resume in the Southern this year, but big games still loom
TSU beat Bethune-Cookman and Arkansas-Pine Bluff - Each of those teams has lost only one other game
EKU beat Coastal Carolina - CCU is having an OK year... got blown up by App State.
Murray beat MoState
TTU beat Hampton
SEMO beat Mars Hill (DII)
APSU hasn't beaten anyone (but we all hope they beat Culver Stockton on Nov. 3)

Part of the reason I think this discussion is important, regardless of where your opinion falls, is that FCS teams don't play many OOC games against fellow FCS teams... so it becomes very difficult to draw objective conclusions relative to interconference strength. Whoever the poster is that always discusses Sagarin ratings talks about how the numbers are still rough because the teams aren't "connected" yet. I think I remember reading that as of last week, they still weren't connected. Further, that data is skewed wildly by the the FBS games. How much credit to teams deserve for playing a "body bag" game? Because all of our programs rely on the FBS paydays, you typically get 2 OOC FCS games. They also typically come early in the season which, as another poster pointed out, makes you question how much they really tell you about a team. I'm sure some will say that the OVC only picked up a win over SIU because it was in week 1 and that the Salukis are a much better team now. So do EKU's games against Morehead State and @Coastal Carolina tell you much? Probably not. But I'd be interested to see the other conference's "marquee wins." Perhaps Dane96 could compile this data for his conference so he could "remind me" of their marquee wins.

I think I can see why people point to the playoff futility as such an important point in all of this, because we acknowledge that the data has very real limitations (even by the end of the season) and that the playoffs are a chance to prove who belongs and who doesn't. By this reasoning, the OVC has not made a strong case for inclusion these past 15 years. I'm just asking people to think about how much weight they place on the previous playoff success (and other factors) when weighing teams. How many weeks into the season before UT-Martin starts to look like a good team THIS year, regardless of the "OVC Weight" that hangs from their necks?

Regardless, I think that UTM and EIU have strong cases to be in the top 25... probably stronger than EKU's. Eastern is, undoubtedly benefiting from the strongest preseason OVC ranking after a strong showing in the playoffs against JMU. I guess a related question I would pose is this: how long does it take to remove the "preseason bias" from the polling? Is it this week? Week 10? The final week?

[Maroons]

I promised a summary of the OVC playoff history and here it is...

OVC teams in bold, Eventual National Champs in italics

1979 – 1982 - The EKU Golden Age, Birth of I-AA, OVC Dominance

1979 – Half the field was from the OVC, Roy Kidd’s eventual National Champs, Mike Gottfried’s Murray State Racers (with Frank Beamer as DC)
Semis – @EKU defeats Nevada (then Nevada-Reno) in 2OT, @Murray falls to Lehigh
NC – EKU defeats Lehigh

1980
Semis – @EKU defeats Lehigh
NC – Boise State defeats EKU 31-29 on last minute drive

1981
Quarters – @EKU defeats Delaware
Semis – EKU defeats @Boise State
NC – Idaho State defeats EKU

1982
Quarters - @EKU defeats Idaho
Semis - @EKU defeats Tennessee State (not yet an OVC member)
NC – EKU defeats Delaware

1983 – 1991 - Playoffs/OVC Expand, Dominance Wanes

1983
1st Rnd – Boston U defeats @EKU

1984 (2 teams)
1st Rnd – MTSU defeats @EKU
Quarters – MTSU defeats @Indiana State
Semis – Louisiana Tech defeats @MTSU

1985 (2 teams)
1st Rnd – Georgia Southern defeats @MTSU, @Rhode Island defeats Akron

1986 (2 teams)
1st Rnd – EKU defeats @Furman, Murray falls to @EIU (not yet an OVC member)
Quarters – EKU defeats @EIU
Semis – @Arkansas State defeats EKU

1987 (2 teams)
1st Rnd - @EKU defeats WKU (not OVC at the time?), YSU falls to @NIU
Quarters – EKU falls @NELA (Now ULM)

1988
1st Rnd - @EKU defeats UMass
Quarters - @EKU defeats WKU
Semis – EKU falls to @GaSU

1989 (2 teams)
1st Rnd - @MTSU defeats App State, @EKU falls to YSU (no longer OVC)
Quarters - @GaSU stomps MTSU

1990 (2 teams)
1st Rnd - @MTSU defeats Jackson State, @EKU loses to Furman
Quarters – MTSU falls to @Boise State

1991 (2 teams)
1st Rnd - @MTSU defeats SHSU in OT, @EKU defeats AppState
Quarters - @EKU defeats MTSU
Semis - @Marshall defeats EKU

1992 – 2000 – Limited Success

1992 (2 teams)
1st Rnd - @MTSU defeats AppState, EKU falls @Marshall
Quarters - @Marshall defeats MTSU

1993
1st Rnd - @GaSU defeats EKU

1994 (2 teams)
1st Rnd - @EKU defeats Boston U, MTSU falls @Marshall
Quarters - @YSU defeats EKU

1995 (2 teams)
1st Rnd - @Murray falls to UNI, EKU falls to @Montana

1996 (2 teams)
1st Rnd - @Murray defeats WIU, EIU falls @ UNI
Quarters – Murray falls @Troy State

1997
1st Rnd – EKU falls @WKU

1998
1st Rnd – TennState falls @AppState

1999
1st Rnd – @TennState falls to NCAT (the infamous #1 seed loss, mentioned before?)

2000 (2 teams)
1st Rnd - @WKU (back in the OVC) beats FAMU, EIU falls @Montana
Quarters – @WKU falls to AppState

2001 – ? – The Story of the Long Sad Drought (I’ll provide more detail, where possible)

2001
1st Rnd - @EIU loses shootout to UNI, 49-43 (Tony Romo wins the Payton Award?)

2002 (2 teams)
1st Rnd – EIU & Murray blown out by @WIU & @WKU

2003
1st Rnd – JaxState blown out @WKU

2004
1st Rnd – JaxState blown out @Furman

2005
1st Rnd – SIU wins 21-6 @EIU

2006 (2 teams)
1st Rnd – Ill State downs @EIU, @SIU escapes UTM 36-30

2007 (2 teams)
1st Rnd - @SIU defeats EIU, @Richmond defeats EKU

2008
1st Rnd - @Richmond beats EKU

2009
1st Rnd - @SIU blows out EIU

2010 (2 teams)
1st Rnd - @JaxState falls to Wofford, 17-14, SEMO falls to @EWU

2011 (2 teams)
1st Rnd - @EKU falls to JMU 20-17, @TTU falls to CAU

[Dane96]

Please remind me WHY we should be impressed with Albany? This is exactly what I was talking about in another thread. What has Albany done since they became FCS to have their 'fan' constantly throwing out sarcastic remarks. I can stomach it from an App State fan, they have earned my respect. Albany? You figure it out.

Your argument was non-sequitur in nature. This isn't about Albany.

I will read your answer--especially since you took the time to really write that down--in a bit.

The NEC, OVC, PL, Big South (aside from SBU's win over weak sauce Army), MEAC and Pioneer have done nothing this year to make them standout in the parity crowd.

Put it this way...one slip up by Albany...and we will be sitting at home this year.

[Cocky]

EIU getting little supprt this week while SIU getting in at 23 makes you wonder?
EIU won head to head by 21 not even close.

[Twentysix]

EIU getting little supprt this week while SIU getting in at 23 makes you wonder?
EIU won head to head by 21 not even close.

Some teams get better as the season progresses. Not that weird. That game was played 1/5th of a year ago.

[OSRacer]

Yes. The OVC is getting shafted in the polls. This will continue until the conference wins in the postseason. The OVC is much better this year than in years past, but it is time to win a game or 2 in the post season. The league has a lot of good coaches right now and if they stick around for a few years the OVC will stay on the upswing.

[danefan]

Please remind me WHY we should be impressed with Albany? This is exactly what I was talking about in another thread. What has Albany done since they became FCS to have their 'fan' constantly throwing out sarcastic remarks. I can stomach it from an App State fan, they have earned my respect. Albany? You figure it out.

Exhibit #17

[Cocky]

Some teams get better as the season progresses. Not that weird. That game was played 1/5th of a year ago.

EIU could be better, too? But the game wasnt even close.

[eiu1999]

If EIU beats EKU on Saturday, then I'd expect for EIU to get some respect.

[Sammy94]

The OVC has a win over the Southland Leader (SELA)

You will see in the next few weeks why this doesn't help your argument.

[ekufbfan]

EIU could be better, too? But the game wasnt even close.
First of all I hope that EIU does NOT beat EKU on Saturday.
But if they do, don't expect anything other than for EKU to drop out. That's seems to be the way of the polls concerning the OVC.

GO EKU!

[Skyhawk71]

Just in case everyone forgot: Tennessee-Martin 51 EIU 37

[TheRevSFA]

You will see in the next few weeks why this doesn't help your argument.

Yep, SELA hasn't gone against SFA or Sam or UCA yet...

[Maroons]

Yep, SELA hasn't gone against SFA or Sam or UCA yet...

I suspected as much after looking at their schedule, but didn't want to slight SELA. Figured someone from the SLC could provide a more informed opinion.

[Skyhawk71]

They played the Hawks, they where not bad, and I don't want to get anyone stirred up, but ..........they are very similar to SEMO, again just from a first hand perspective that is where they would stack up in the OVC

Along with that, the next week they beat McNeese St. who continued to hang around the polls anyway........so that I guess is my answer to this post......McNeese stayed top 25 for a while......after that*

[Jazzman1522]

I do feel like the respect is starting to come for this year at least. EKU's climbed to 18, and TSU's still sitting at 21 after their loss (I was honestly expecting them to drop out). Meanwhile, Martin's sitting just outside the top 25 and if they can beat JSU this weekend, I feel pretty confident they'd get in, as the Gamecocks are also receiving votes along with EIU. So that's five teams that are at least getting votes in TSN's poll. I don't recall a time I've ever been able to say that while I've been following the conference (since 2006). The playoff problem still hurts though, as it's likely why everyone's still so near the bottom of the poll. Bad preseason rankings, and what not. If one or two teams can end the drought this year, though, maybe we'll start to get this turned around.

[Skyhawk71]

I will say this Jazzman, EKU who the Hawks led and competed with for three quarters, just wore us out in the fourth with line size, and everybody worrying about Denham, they just threw over us with that awesome wr- your qb is very impressive in how he manages the game- EIU is good, but they play zero defense- you would have to turn the ball over for them to have a shot. That said, with our defense depleted, it would not be a shock to drop the JSU and TSU games; what would really tear me up is to beat JSU, who we actually always play well against; lose in Cookeville where we never win ever; and then upset TSU......that would lead to some heavy drinking