ESPN says CAA to add CofC

[bluehenbillk]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8520520/college-charleston-cougars-expected-join-colonial-athletic-association

Andy Katz breaking it so you can believe it versus some hack.

[HailSzczur]

Didn't pay much attention to the Davidson thing, is there much chance of this affecting the football conference at all?

[rich]

Basketball only?

[Laker]

Basketball only?

I assume that it would be for all sports except football, which they don't have.

[Apphole]

The SmallCon continues the trent towards complete irrelevance. The journey will be complete with the departure of App and GaSo.

[bluehenbillk]

I assume that it would be for all sports except football, which they don't have.

Correct

[Smitty]

The SmallCon continues the trent towards complete irrelevance. The journey will be complete with the departure of App and GaSo.

Of course, if you can get out...

[DFW HOYA]

Enjoy those bus trips to Hofstra.

[superman7515]

I think the title of the thread is misleading. ESPN isn't saying "CAA to add CofC," there are a ton of "if" and "hope" in this article. The vote isn't until 9:30 on Saturday and the last I heard, although the athletics director was all for it, the BOD was split almost 50/50 on it. And that was before Davidson turned the CAA down flat. Will that make them more likely to stay, or more likely to go, I don't know. But a lot of people were counting that Davidson chicken before it hatched, and then had to do a lot of excuse making when the CAA was turned down, so I don't think anything is guaranteed until Saturday.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

The SmallCon continues the trent towards complete irrelevance. The journey will be complete with the departure of App and GaSo.

The SoCon doesn't need Charleston. Overrated basketball program that hasn't won the conference since 1999, and baseball will be fine without them.

[walliver]

SoCon members Georgia Southern and Appalachian State are pursuing a move from FCS to FBS in football, but that could be years away. A source inside the SoCon confirmed that the Mountaineers are going to remain in the league for the “foreseeable future.”
http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20121018/PC20/121019258/1036/davidson-decision-to-stay-in-socon-won-t-impact-college-of-charleston-ad-says
You may be stuck with us for a while...


C of C won't be missed, their basketball team has underperformed since Kresse retired.

[Apphole]

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20121018/PC20/121019258/1036/davidson-decision-to-stay-in-socon-won-t-impact-college-of-charleston-ad-says
You may be stuck with us for a while...


C of C won't be missed, their basketball team has underperformed since Kresse retired.

What source inside the SoCon? If its not a source from the ASU administration its meaningless hearsay. You think Charlie and company are singing about every conference conversation to all the SoCon rubes? No way.

A move will be announced this off season IMO.

[henfan]

The SoCon doesn't need Charleston. Overrated basketball program that hasn't won the conference since 1999, and baseball will be fine without them.

Best of all, CoC leaving means that the SoCon now has a slot to add another small private university to its ranks. Presbyterian, you're on the clock.

[asumike83]

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20121018/PC20/121019258/1036/davidson-decision-to-stay-in-socon-won-t-impact-college-of-charleston-ad-says
You may be stuck with us for a while...


C of C won't be missed, their basketball team has underperformed since Kresse retired.

While that may be entirely true, I don't put much stock in the fact that an unnamed SoCon source has any real knowledge on whether an FBS conference plans to invite Appalachian and/or Georgia Southern. Neither school would leave for another FCS conference but I doubt this source has any inside information on CUSA/MAC/Sun Belt, etc., and those are the conferences who will determine whether we stay or go. Maybe I am just being cynical but I don't believe that the SoCon commissioner knows what the hell is going on in college athletics, much less an anonymous source.

That being said, I am content with App staying the SoCon for a while from an on-field standpoint, some very good football teams to compete with. I just wish there was some kind of effort made to market the conference, starting with getting a few games on TV.

[walliver]

Best of all, CoC leaving means that the SoCon now has a slot to add another small private university to its ranks. Presbyterian, you're on the clock.

supposedly Mercer is the top choice to replace CofC, although there is not yet a concensus among all the schools.
Currently there appear to be 3 factions.
1) ASU and GSU who are anxiously sitting by the phone hoping for a date to the prom
2) Remaining non-military publics (Chatty and WCU)
3) Privates and The Citadel

The privates want Mercer (5 votes, 6 if you count Davy).
The remaining 4 (5 if you count that school we all forget about in Greensboro) apparently want somebody else.
No-one wants PC.

There really is no reason to replace CofC. Divisional play hasn't really added much to basketball, and we would still have 11 BB schools for ther time being.

[Apphole]

If the SoCon adds Mercer, I want to move to the BigSouth.

[fc97]

i love it, any time membership comes up. certain fans just throw a dart at a map and say yep, that's the private school to add.

the choice is between mercer and kennesaw or both at the moment. mercer fits in great with athletics performance but are being blocked by western, uncg, app and gsu. kennesaw state fits but are being blocked by furman, the citadel, app and gsu. neither has the 3/4 requirement.

it may be moot. charleston has been on the phone with 2 other socon schools today.

[fc97]

If the SoCon adds Mercer, I want to move to the BigSouth.

why, cause vmi, longwood, campbell, high point, presbyterian and gardner-webb work out better for you? seriously, think before you type.

[fc97]

While that may be entirely true, I don't put much stock in the fact that an unnamed SoCon source has any real knowledge on whether an FBS conference plans to invite Appalachian and/or Georgia Southern. Neither school would leave for another FCS conference but I doubt this source has any inside information on CUSA/MAC/Sun Belt, etc., and those are the conferences who will determine whether we stay or go. Maybe I am just being cynical but I don't believe that the SoCon commissioner knows what the hell is going on in college athletics, much less an anonymous source.

That being said, I am content with App staying the SoCon for a while from an on-field standpoint, some very good football teams to compete with. I just wish there was some kind of effort made to market the conference, starting with getting a few games on TV.

other than gsu and app are public and have to keep certain things open. it could be that the front office is well aware of what's going on. look at it this way, app and gsu haven't burned bridges like etsu did and it might be because they are leaving communications wide open so that the conference schools can react before things actually happen. that would be good business and would be stupid if someone in the socon office said something.

[Apphole]

why, cause vmi, longwood, campbell, high point, presbyterian and gardner-webb work out better for you? seriously, think before you type.

It looks the same, honestly.

[woffordgrad94]

I'd rather win in an irrelevant conference than lose in a relevant one. If teams that consistently beat Wofford leave and are replaced by teams we can beat, then I like that because I like winning. I realize this might not be a popular post with everybody, but oh well.

And just for the record, C of C ain't ***** in basketball anymore. Wofford usually beats them now.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Are any current Big South football-playing schools "on the clock"? Certainly not VMI. Presby is considered no-go. Webb, Chuck South and Coastal don't seem likely. And Liberty wants FBS.

Could Liberty join App and Georgia Southern and all three as a unit try to go to an FBS conference? But they could do that without Liberty ever joining the SoCon.

[asumike83]

Coastal would replace Charleston's baseball, be a solid basketball addition and be able to continue to grow their football program as a SoCon member, along with being a good geographic fit. Makes a ton of sense, which really lessens the chance of it ever happening.

[Apphole]

Coastal would replace Charleston's baseball, be a solid basketball addition and be able to continue to grow their football program as a SoCon member, along with being a good geographic fit. Makes a ton of sense, which really lessens the chance of it ever happening.

Too much sense. Public school. Not happening.

[woffordgrad94]

Coastal Carolina is disliked as a potential member by some SoCon schools because they would have the lowest academic standards of any school in the conference should they join. I personally don't think that is a huge deal, but some people do and that's why they'd never be offered SoCon membership.

[walliver]

I'd rather win in an irrelevant conference than lose in a relevant one. If teams that consistently beat Wofford leave and are replaced by teams we can beat, then I like that because I like winning. I realize this might not be a popular post with everybody, but oh well.

And just for the record, C of C ain't ***** in basketball anymore. Wofford usually beats them now.


The problem with being the big dog in a small pound is that you tend to get pulled down to the level of the competition.
FSU football eventually got pulled down to ACC level, as did Miami and VaTech. In fact, you can make a good argument that CofC basketball got pulled down to SoCon level (They received an at-large bid while playing in the TAAC).

[woffordgrad94]

Yes, that does tend to happen Walliver, now that you mention it. And schools that join better conferences tend to step it up (like Miami and Va Tech in ACC basketball).

[walliver]

Coastal Carolina is disliked as a potential member by some SoCon schools because they would have the lowest academic standards of any school in the conference should they join. I personally don't think that is a huge deal, but some people do and that's why they'd never be offered SoCon membership.

I don't think academics was the main problem with CCU. At one time, Wofford had plans for a perpetual home-and-home, orgaized so that we would play at the beach in the years that we hosted Citadel. One game was played, we bought our way out of the next game, and no further games have been played. CCU was widely expected to eventually join the SoCon, but something in their football program created enemies for them inside the SoCon. I have heard this from several unrelated sources, but no-one ever seems to know what was said or done (although I've heard rumors that their recruiters dissed Jerry Moore (but that never made much sense to me)).

The only way I can see CCU joining the SoCon is for ASU and GSU to leave. In that case CCU would likely be brough in the balance out a more "private-friendly" school in order to keep UTC and WCU from leaving. (I'm sure UTC would be welcomed to the OVC, I'm not sure if WCU really has anywhere to go other than the Big South). At present, there is no need for a 10th football school.

[Dane96]

I think the title of the thread is misleading. ESPN isn't saying "CAA to add CofC," there are a ton of "if" and "hope" in this article. The vote isn't until 9:30 on Saturday and the last I heard, although the athletics director was all for it, the BOD was split almost 50/50 on it. And that was before Davidson turned the CAA down flat. Will that make them more likely to stay, or more likely to go, I don't know. But a lot of people were counting that Davidson chicken before it hatched, and then had to do a lot of excuse making when the CAA was turned down, so I don't think anything is guaranteed until Saturday.

Correctomundo.

However, CofC to CAA will become official tomorrow according to my sources. My sources are rarely, if ever now that i think about it, off by a lot.

I was also told UA and SBU were always, and continue to be, the serious Plan B.

The CAA will probably sit put for now...wait for some more movement both in and out of conference. Then, I suspect we will be the next adds.

[Dane96]

Best of all, CoC leaving means that the SoCon now has a slot to add another small private university to its ranks. Presbyterian, you're on the clock.

Would the Southern go that route?

[superman7515]

SC State wants out of the MEAC, but I dunno if the SoCon would want them. Might have to look at replacing whoever leaves from the Big South. Then again, SC State (although having a down year this season) is typically better than most of the Big South teams.

[asumike83]

SC State wants out of the MEAC, but I dunno if the SoCon would want them. Might have to look at replacing whoever leaves from the Big South. Then again, SC State (although having a down year this season) is typically better than most of the Big South teams.

Very true. Plus, they travel well and are typically in the top 15 in terms of attendance.

[walliver]

SC State would be an interesting addition, but that school is currently having major financial issues, and this would not be a good time for them to move.

I really don't see the SoCon adding a football school to replace a non-football school. I think most schools are happy with 9 teams (4 home and 4 away games each year), although there may be some arguments about who those 9 teams should be.:D

I'm not sure of there is any need to replace CofC at all. Each BB team can play one more non-divisional game each year.

An argument can be made that the conference should look at adding 2 football teams in the near future to be ready when ASU and GSU leave. Without a definite timetable for the xSU's leaving, however, I would hate to spend several years with 11 teams (Imagine years where ASU and GSU don't play, etc).

[woffordgrad94]

So long, Charleston. Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya! And Presbyterian will never ever ever EVER be in the SoCon! NOBODY wants them in, not even little old Wofford! What the hell is a Blue Hose anyway? And I don't think a Black school like SC State would join the SoCon either. Are there any D1 Black schools outside the MEAC or SWAC?

[ElCid]

Why should the SOCON be so short sighted to look for just a SC school. In my opinion, both Coastal or SC State are bad fits. We need to look out of the state of SC and start picking off other Conference schools. And as has been mentioned, it aint official yet about CofC, no offense to those who think they know, but the until the fat lady sings..... And not saying I particularly like them CofC Be-atches, but the SOCOn will lose a good BBall and Baseball team no matter how you slice it.

[walliver]

... Are there any D1 Black schools outside the MEAC or SWAC?

Tennessee State is in the OVC, and it apparently has worked out well.

[The Cats]

i love it, any time membership comes up. certain fans just throw a dart at a map and say yep, that's the private school to add.

the choice is between mercer and kennesaw or both at the moment. mercer fits in great with athletics performance but are being blocked by western, uncg, app and gsu. kennesaw state fits but are being blocked by furman, the citadel, app and gsu. neither has the 3/4 requirement.

it may be moot. charleston has been on the phone with 2 other socon schools today.

you may be correct about Mercer, but I don't believe for a second that App & GSU are blocking KSU (especially GSU blocking another Ga public school).

[woffordgrad94]

Thanks. Didn't know Tenn St. was HBCU.

[The Cats]

If the SoCon adds Mercer, I want to move to the BigSouth.

Probably the only time I'll ever agree with you.

However, I'd consider both Mercer and KSU, but not Mercer alone.

[Mr. C]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8520520/college-charleston-cougars-expected-join-colonial-athletic-association

Andy Katz breaking it so you can believe it versus some hack.

Andy Katz didn't "BREAK" anything. I knew about this two weeks ago as did anyone close to the CAA. ESPN loves to think they break things when they don't.

[superman7515]

Andy Katz didn't "BREAK" anything. I knew about this two weeks ago as did anyone close to the CAA. ESPN loves to think they break things when they don't.

Well considering he didn't say anything other than people inside the conference "hope" they join and will be excited "if" they do, if it took you until two weeks ago to figure that out you're way behind on the train.

[ncguitarplyr]

My take on the replacement possibilities:

CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT: College of Charleston to Join CAA? Who Replaces Them?
http://www.appstatenation.com/2012/10/18/conference-realignment-college-of-charleston-to-join-caa-who-replaces-them/

[DFW HOYA]

VMI (cough...)

[Sandlapper Spike]

VMI (cough...)

A lot more likely than any other school currently in the Big South.

[Saint3333]

Why should the SOCON be so short sighted to look for just a SC school. In my opinion, both Coastal or SC State are bad fits. We need to look out of the state of SC and start picking off other Conference schools. And as has been mentioned, it aint official yet about CofC, no offense to those who think they know, but the until the fat lady sings..... And not saying I particularly like them CofC Be-atches, but the SOCOn will lose a good BBall and Baseball team no matter how you slice it.

SoCon being proactive and going on the offensive, don't bet on it.

CCU should be the next member.

[fc97]

Probably the only time I'll ever agree with you.

However, I'd consider both Mercer and KSU, but not Mercer alone.

the word is, if charleston leaves alone then they add one non football school and two football schools. if more than charleston leaves, which is still possible with elon and uncg, then the plans change.

the four schools mentioned from the emergency meeting were mercer, kennesaw, coastal and sc state. mercer has the best all sports fit outside of coastal. and i think the conference office wants another georgia school planning for when gsu leaves.

kennesaw and mercer are being pushed hard by both samford and utc. for a non-football fit, mercer is the best choice outside of a sc/nc school.

[fc97]

the problem with coastal is two-fold, charleston was a big coastal blocker so they go away. but the citadel, furman and davidson are still big coastal blockers. you have to have a 3/4 vote to pass the presidents. when football is involved, usually the basketball schools abstain, but with coastal, that wasnt the case.

[Saint3333]

the word is, if charleston leaves alone then they add one non football school and two football schools. if more than charleston leaves, which is still possible with elon and uncg, then the plans change.

the four schools mentioned from the emergency meeting were mercer, kennesaw, coastal and sc state. mercer has the best all sports fit outside of coastal. and i think the conference office wants another georgia school planning for when gsu leaves.

kennesaw and mercer are being pushed hard by both samford and utc. for a non-football fit, mercer is the best choice outside of a sc/nc school.

I may like the new SoCon better than the current one. Wouldn't mind losing UNCG at all.

[Sandlapper Spike]

If Davidson isn't going to the CAA no matter what, why exactly would that league be interested in Elon and UNCG?

And I cannot imagine SC State, which has a host of institutional issues, as a target school for the SoCon.

[Jazzman1522]

Tennessee State is in the OVC, and it apparently has worked out well.

The one issue that exists with this arrangement (And I don't even know who considers it an issue outside of myself and other OVC fans who have expressed displeasure with it) is that Tennessee State has a deal with the conference where they only play 7 conference games instead of the standard 8 to preserve room on their schedule for playing in HBCU Classics. So, every year, two teams only play 7 conference games, while everyone else has to play 8.

Also, I've seen a lot of remarks about private schools in this discussion. What's the significance of a private school versus a public one when it comes to conference alignment?

[Mr. C]

Well considering he didn't say anything other than people inside the conference "hope" they join and will be excited "if" they do, if it took you until two weeks ago to figure that out you're way behind on the train.

I'm not behind any trains. I had been told all of the stuff about the dialog going on for some time. But I did hear that College of Charleston was leaving for sure, that it was a done deal, from a very good CAA source a couple of weeks back. They said it was just a matter of when CoC would "officially" announce it. They also said that Davidson and App State had no interest in leaving (I knew for some time that ASU wasn't going anywhere, unless an FBS conference made an unlikely offer and knew it was highly unlikely that Davidson would be convinced to leave) and that the talk about Elon had never been serious. My sources also tell me that it isn't likely for Albany, or Stony Brook to become all-sport members, too.

I just love how ESPN (particularly Andy Katz) comes up with how they are breaking stories that other people have broken. Years ago, I was the first to report that Appalachian State had hired Buzz Peterson as its new basketball (the first time he was hired — also broke the story the second time, too) and that night, ESPN reported how Andy Katz had learned that Peterson had the job — after my newspaper, AP and others had reported it early in the day.

[fc97]

If Davidson isn't going to the CAA no matter what, why exactly would that league be interested in Elon and UNCG?


i dont know. i dont know what the interest would be for uncg at all. i have trouble seeing an argument for elon going there. but i guess i could see the league interested in keeping a southern profile for w&m, cofc and uncw. after all, when jmu leaves, w&m is going to be on an island in the south.

i really dont know. if the socon stays intact except for cofc, the citadel still gives charleston's market. and expanding with mercer and a coastal/kennesaw would make the league, in my opinion, much better from where it is now.

[fc97]

also on a side note, there is a lot of interest from what ive heard, that some members want tennessee tech, etsu or murray state pursued also.

[walliver]

also on a side note, there is a lot of interest from what ive heard, that some members want tennessee tech, etsu or murray state pursued also.

I believe Tennessee Tech has been on the radar for many years, even before ETSU's departure.

I think there has been too much emphasis on South Carolina schools. A "South Carolina Conference" would be good for reducing travel expenses, and make it easy for fans to attend away games, but would not be good as far as maintaining the current level of play. Playing games over a broad geographic area aids in institutional exposure (even without TV) and also expands the recruiting base.

For me, the ideal SoCon would be for App and GSU to stay, and add nobody.

Mercer and Kennesaw would help with the Georgia market, and maintain some public/private balance. And add Tennessee Tech or CCU. Hopefully Mercer will eventually upgrade their football program to SoCon level.

[downbythebeach]

Why would you even want College of Charleston?

[seantaylor]

Means pretty much zero, really. CofC basketball is very overrated. Might hurt baseball a little, but they are no better than the 3rd or 4th best program baseball wise in the league. Don't know enough about the other non revenue sports to care.

[whoanellie]

it's all about the sailing team... bow to stern fore and aft port to starboard
those darn 4 star sailing recruits

[Skjellyfetti]

A source inside the SoCon confirmed that the Mountaineers are going to remain in the league for the “foreseeable future."

Hmmm. This was the SoCon over the summer:

Per Southern Conference policy, the league office will not be making any public comments regarding membership issues

I guess anonymous statements to reporters is fine, though. xrolleyesx

[fc97]

Hmmm. This was the SoCon over the summer:


I guess anonymous statements to reporters is fine, though. xrolleyesx

to be fair, anonymous sources are how most of the whistle-blowing, breaking news type stuff gets out.

[dgtw]

The one issue that exists with this arrangement (And I don't even know who considers it an issue outside of myself and other OVC fans who have expressed displeasure with it) is that Tennessee State has a deal with the conference where they only play 7 conference games instead of the standard 8 to preserve room on their schedule for playing in HBCU Classics. So, every year, two teams only play 7 conference games, while everyone else has to play 8.


Well, if it makes you feel better, it hacks me off as well. If they can't live with three OOC games, they need to join the SWAC or MEAC. But it also bothers me the OVC let in non football schools and has a Pioneer League member for Olympic sports. But I'm just a lowly OVC fan and a voice in the wilderness.

Next year FCS schools get to play 12 games. I wonder if they'll use that extra game to play a full scedule.

[fc97]

I believe Tennessee Tech has been on the radar for many years, even before ETSU's departure.

I think there has been too much emphasis on South Carolina schools. A "South Carolina Conference" would be good for reducing travel expenses, and make it easy for fans to attend away games, but would not be good as far as maintaining the current level of play. Playing games over a broad geographic area aids in institutional exposure (even without TV) and also expands the recruiting base.

For me, the ideal SoCon would be for App and GSU to stay, and add nobody.

Mercer and Kennesaw would help with the Georgia market, and maintain some public/private balance. And add Tennessee Tech or CCU. Hopefully Mercer will eventually upgrade their football program to SoCon level.

so i think that might be a way to go, the socon clearly wants to go 14 teams.
right now, mercer is a no brainer. app fans will whine and moan. but truthfully, app fans overall get no more excited over coastal than anyone else. mercer has had the highest overall basketball rpi, baseball rpi and women's basketball rpi of any school that's currently available, including kennesaw. and it gives us the atlanta market as much as georgia state gives it to the sun belt. hahahaha. seriously, they have good programs.

kennesaw state is an up and coming public school and will also get more into the atlanta market. they are much like uncc in student makeup. they have a good baseball program. basketball sucks. womens basketball is so so. good softball. they are a big school, tons of potential in a big market. but, do you take potential, or do you take an immediate program to bring up key products (basketball will suffer some, baseball suffers a big loss).

etsu - no brainer. its in the immediate footprint. it'll make app fans a little happier. they are good in basketball. seriously, it just makes sense to pick them up. if their stupid president and ad hadn't screwed things up before, both them and samford would be here now and the conference would be better for it.

tennessee tech - they seem like the best overall all-sports pick. everything isn't bad. they have proven football. and they are on the edge of their footprint already. of all ovc teams, they are probably the most likely to be picked off.

coastal - overall a good pickup. good basketball lately. good baseball all the time. mostly great facilities. tourist destination. there are two problems. like the caa, the socon president's care about the academic image. coastal has apr in key sports on a highly downawrd trend and their entrance requirements aren't exactly stringent (not saying smart kids don't go there, but image counts too). one of the big gripes with the conference is continuing to tighten the footprint. so, if you lose a school in a tight footprint and want to expand out, do you add someone inside the tight footprint again or move out? i don't see the conference moving this direction, if there were less sc schools than now, maybe, i just don't see everyone going after another nc or sc school.

eku - would be great, but i don't see everyone going for an outlier like this and eku would be a huge outlier in the socon after app leaves.

on the outside as a remote possibility - north alabama and west georgia. but i don't see the conference going after a d-ii moveup any time soon.

my take
perfect world: mercer, liberty, jacksonville state
option 1: mercer, kennesaw, coastal
option 2: mercer, tennessee tech, etsu
option 3: mercer, kennesaw, etsu
option 4: mercer, coastal, etsu

all of options 1-3 make sense and would be better for the whole conference.

so that's my take. mercer will be #1 followed by two public schools. the conference office clearly wants to keep the balance as it is. to do that means that if a private school is admitted, it will be a package with other schools to go to 14 schools.

[fc97]

another thing to look at

mercer, coastal and kennesaw state field women's lacrosse teams. etsu and tennesse tech do not.

elon, furman and davidson have to play in the atlantic sun and independent respectively. the atlantic sun came about due to the collapse of the nlc. if kennesaw, mercer and coastal were invited, the socon would have enough to fill a conference schedule and receive an automatic big. might be another angle to think about.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Could ETSU bring back football if they rejoin the SoCon, and would it make their case better if they did?

My thought would be the SoCon wants all-sports schools including football, but I'm not sure.

Of course Mercer, ETSU and Davidson could all sponsor PFL football and be non-scholarship.

[fc97]

the south doesn't have a good fcs track record of having quality football and basketball programs in one school. even look at the likes of app, jmu and w&m, its just not happening there either.

if the socon wants to bring up their basketball status, then they need to take a non-schollie basketball focus school like a winthrop, mercer, unca, etsu type. then fill in the football replacements with the best of what's left that fits with what the conference presidents want (elon and samford were that at the time).

[rokamortis]

coastal - overall a good pickup. good basketball lately. good baseball all the time. mostly great facilities. tourist destination. there are two problems. like the caa, the socon president's care about the academic image. coastal has apr in key sports on a highly downawrd trend and their entrance requirements aren't exactly stringent (not saying smart kids don't go there, but image counts too). one of the big gripes with the conference is continuing to tighten the footprint. so, if you lose a school in a tight footprint and want to expand out, do you add someone inside the tight footprint again or move out? i don't see the conference moving this direction, if there were less sc schools than now, maybe, i just don't see everyone going after another nc or sc school.


Good assessments overall - but I think if you are going to use the academic argument against Coastal then you should look at the academic images of the other schools you mention as well. You'll find Coastal is comparable to most of the other public schools on your list and much better than SC State that some have mentioned. I think people throw out 'academics' without really looking into it.

Footprint - not that this is a huge selling point and doesn't drastically expand but it gets the SoCon in the Myrtle Beach / Florence market where as CofC and Citadel doubled up in Charleston.

[asumike83]

so i think that might be a way to go, the socon clearly wants to go 14 teams.
right now, mercer is a no brainer. app fans will whine and moan. but truthfully, app fans overall get no more excited over coastal than anyone else. mercer has had the highest overall basketball rpi, baseball rpi and women's basketball rpi of any school that's currently available, including kennesaw. and it gives us the atlanta market as much as georgia state gives it to the sun belt. hahahaha. seriously, they have good programs.

kennesaw state is an up and coming public school and will also get more into the atlanta market. they are much like uncc in student makeup. they have a good baseball program. basketball sucks. womens basketball is so so. good softball. they are a big school, tons of potential in a big market. but, do you take potential, or do you take an immediate program to bring up key products (basketball will suffer some, baseball suffers a big loss).

etsu - no brainer. its in the immediate footprint. it'll make app fans a little happier. they are good in basketball. seriously, it just makes sense to pick them up. if their stupid president and ad hadn't screwed things up before, both them and samford would be here now and the conference would be better for it.

tennessee tech - they seem like the best overall all-sports pick. everything isn't bad. they have proven football. and they are on the edge of their footprint already. of all ovc teams, they are probably the most likely to be picked off.

coastal - overall a good pickup. good basketball lately. good baseball all the time. mostly great facilities. tourist destination. there are two problems. like the caa, the socon president's care about the academic image. coastal has apr in key sports on a highly downawrd trend and their entrance requirements aren't exactly stringent (not saying smart kids don't go there, but image counts too). one of the big gripes with the conference is continuing to tighten the footprint. so, if you lose a school in a tight footprint and want to expand out, do you add someone inside the tight footprint again or move out? i don't see the conference moving this direction, if there were less sc schools than now, maybe, i just don't see everyone going after another nc or sc school.

eku - would be great, but i don't see everyone going for an outlier like this and eku would be a huge outlier in the socon after app leaves.

on the outside as a remote possibility - north alabama and west georgia. but i don't see the conference going after a d-ii moveup any time soon.

my take
perfect world: mercer, liberty, jacksonville state
option 1: mercer, kennesaw, coastal
option 2: mercer, tennessee tech, etsu
option 3: mercer, kennesaw, etsu
option 4: mercer, coastal, etsu

all of options 1-3 make sense and would be better for the whole conference.

so that's my take. mercer will be #1 followed by two public schools. the conference office clearly wants to keep the balance as it is. to do that means that if a private school is admitted, it will be a package with other schools to go to 14 schools.

First off, very good post. I agree with nearly all of it. However, Coastal has the highest baseball RPI of any available school and it is not close.

Mercer Baseball RPI:
2008 - 193
2009 - 139
2010 - 124
2011 - 56
2012 - 81

Coastal Baseball RPI:
2008 - 6
2009 - 28
2010 - 2
2011 - 44
2012 - 41

[fc97]

Good assessments overall - but I think if you are going to use the academic argument against Coastal then you should look at the academic images of the other schools you mention as well. You'll find Coastal is comparable to most of the other public schools on your list and much better than SC State that some have mentioned. I think people throw out 'academics' without really looking into it.

Footprint - not that this is a huge selling point and doesn't drastically expand but it gets the SoCon in the Myrtle Beach / Florence market where as CofC and Citadel doubled up in Charleston.

absolutely better than sc state and on par with kennesaw. but again man, its as much image as it is truth in a way. coastal could be he harvard of the south, but, it would take years to shake the old image everyone has.

i agree myrtle is a huge pickup for many items like conference tournaments and would immediately step up baseball. i myself like the addition if it happens. but, im not a president of a university either.

my gut tells me it will be mercer, kennesaw and coastal when it is all said and done. those three are easy, no brainers, make sense and bring the most to the table overall. and to be fair, mercer and kennesaw technically spread the conference west towards utc and samford to balance things out a bit there too.

[fc97]

First off, very good post. I agree with nearly all of it. However, Coastal has the highest baseball RPI of any available school and it is not close.

Mercer Baseball RPI:
2008 - 193
2009 - 139
2010 - 124
2011 - 56
2012 - 81

Coastal Baseball RPI:
2008 - 6
2009 - 28
2010 - 2
2011 - 44
2012 - 41

I think i mistyped, i meant when you look at everything as a whole package and balance it out, mercer has the higher overall of balanced sports where coastal is like most of the rest of us where they are excellent and one and everything else is average or below. sorry about that.

[Sandlapper Spike]

my gut tells me it will be mercer, kennesaw and coastal when it is all said and done. those three are easy, no brainers, make sense and bring the most to the table overall. and to be fair, mercer and kennesaw technically spread the conference west towards utc and samford to balance things out a bit there too.

I have my doubts. All the rumors about Furman leaving the SoCon were based on that school's concern over the eventual replacements for App/GSU. If Furman (and Davidson) are staying in the SoCon, then I don't see them going along with Coastal Carolina (and Kennesaw State also strikes me as a stretch).

As long as Furman/Davidson/Wofford/The Citadel are opposed, those larger public schools aren't getting in the SoCon.

[rokamortis]

absolutely better than sc state and on par with kennesaw. but again man, its as much image as it is truth in a way. coastal could be he harvard of the south, but, it would take years to shake the old image everyone has.

I agree with image - but I also think we should put the facts into context. How about Jax State, ETSU, and TTU?

I think Coastal is a good fit for the SoCon overall but agree that many private / in-state schools are gun shy and I think they use academics as an excuse rather than a legitimate reason.

[asumike83]

I think i mistyped, i meant when you look at everything as a whole package and balance it out, mercer has the higher overall of balanced sports where coastal is like most of the rest of us where they are excellent and one and everything else is average or below. sorry about that.

Oh, you mean the best average combined RPI of those sports. Gotcha, that is an interesting way to look at it.

Not to disregard the ladies but I wonder how Coastal would rank if you took just baseball and men's hoops? I'd have to think they would probably be first and considering their football program is much more prepared for the SoCon, I think they would be a great addition. I know there is all the political stuff in play as well but I'd love to see them come on board.

[Skjellyfetti]

to be fair, anonymous sources are how most of the whistle-blowing, breaking news type stuff gets out.

The statement regarding App State is neither whistle-blowing nor breaking news.

[superman7515]

Well, if it makes you feel better, it hacks me off as well. If they can't live with three OOC games, they need to join the SWAC or MEAC. But it also bothers me the OVC let in non football schools and has a Pioneer League member for Olympic sports. But I'm just a lowly OVC fan and a voice in the wilderness.

Next year FCS schools get to play 12 games. I wonder if they'll use that extra game to play a full scedule.

If it hasn't bothered the OVC for 25 years, it's not going to bother them now.

[CID1990]

Why does the SoCon need to replace cofc?

Why would you replace a wart right after you get rid of it?

[fc97]

I have my doubts. All the rumors about Furman leaving the SoCon were based on that school's concern over the eventual replacements for App/GSU. If Furman (and Davidson) are staying in the SoCon, then I don't see them going along with Coastal Carolina (and Kennesaw State also strikes me as a stretch).

As long as Furman/Davidson/Wofford/The Citadel are opposed, those larger public schools aren't getting in the SoCon.

that's why i think if you package mercer, coastal and kennesaw together it might be more of a swing. furman, the citadel, davidson and charleston (not wofford) opposed coastal. if you package everything together, then you can please everyone and might have better shot at getting a package in. think about it, most likely western, app, gsu and maybe uncg will oppose mercer. if the citadel, davidson and furman oppose coastal. putting the two together could make the pill for both sides easier to swallow. you notice in all this, samford, utc and elon are the swing votes.

from academics, look at it like this (us news rankings):
davidson (12 national LA)
furman (49 national LA)
wofford (63 national LA)
uncg (189 national)
elon (2 south)
samford (4 south)
the citadel (5 south)
app (10 south)
wcu (37 south)
utc (46 south)
gsu (n/a)

vmi (70 national LA)
sc state (147 national)
mercer (8 south)
tenn tech (33 south)
n alabama (59 south)
kennesaw (61 south)
coastal (63 south)
liberty (65 south)
jax state (74 south)
w georgia (91 south)
etsu (n/a)

mercer fits in there nicely and so would tennessee tech. kennesaw and coastal still arent bad choices looking at those numbers.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I think Belmont would be the school that is most likely to get the 3/4th majority vote.

[Sandlapper Spike]

that's why i think if you package mercer, coastal and kennesaw together it might be more of a swing. furman, the citadel, davidson and charleston (not wofford) opposed coastal. if you package everything together, then you can please everyone and might have better shot at getting a package in. think about it, most likely western, app, gsu and maybe uncg will oppose mercer.

I think it's possible that Furman/etc. would rather let the status quo remain at 11 then go along with a "package".

[bluehenbillk]

CofC's BOT voted 12-5 this morning, not to join the CAA, but to begin negotiations with the CAA... Not sure how to take that but there is no big announcement coming this weekend it seems...

[Sandlapper Spike]

CofC's BOT voted 12-5 this morning, not to join the CAA, but to begin negotiations with the CAA... Not sure how to take that but there is no big announcement coming this weekend it seems...

They will have to vote again after "negotiations", but I would imagine that will be another 12-5 situation. It is hard to imagine them remaining in the SoCon after all this.

[The Cats]

They will have to vote again after "negotiations", but I would imagine that will be another 12-5 situation. It is hard to imagine them remaining in the SoCon after all this.

I agree, their AD has burned a lot of bridges in the SoCon. It's probably best they go somewhere.

[danefan]

We all know the negotiations are done, but weren't official until this vote. I'm sure the AD doesn't have the official authority to negotiate on behalf of the University without this vote. Once given, the negotiations and vote are probably just a rubber stamp process.

CoC is as good as a full member of the CAA today.

[fc97]

I think it's possible that Furman/etc. would rather let the status quo remain at 11 then go along with a "package".

i think you'd be shocked.

[Waco Kid]

it may be moot. charleston has been on the phone with 2 other socon schools today.

CofC has been working hard behind the scenes to get another SoCon school to move with them for months. Davidson made the most sense, but obviously that fell through. I know Elon is interested but wonder how the poor performance of the basketball program plus the tiny gym will affect a possible invite? Would Furman be interested? A move to the CAA would reunite them with former SoCon members Richmond and W&M.

[Sandlapper Spike]

i think you'd be shocked.

I doubt it. Mildly surprised, maybe, but not shocked. I've followed the league for too long to be really shocked by anything.

I still don't see why it benefits that group to let in another school just to get a Mercer in the fold.

[walliver]

CofC has been working hard behind the scenes to get another SoCon school to move with them for months. Davidson made the most sense, but obviously that fell through. I know Elon is interested but wonder how the poor performance of the basketball program plus the tiny gym will affect a possible invite? Would Furman be interested? A move to the CAA would reunite them with former SoCon members Richmond and W&M.

Adding Stony Brook and Albany to CAA football makes the CAA much less attractive for Southern football schools from a travel standpoint (even though it would probably be only one far north flight a year. Furman might show some interest, most likely to scare the SoCon a little, but it makes little economic sense. The closest CAA football school would be Richmond (and that is a very long drive). The closest full member would be UNC-W, and that's a 6-7 hour drive. Furman and The Citadel flirted with the CAA in the late 90's (right after Wofford and the two BB schools joined), but the next two additions (Elon and Samford) were very FU-friendly. I suspect that for the time being, FU will find (as Davidson did 20 years ago) that for small schools in the deep south, there is no better conference than the SoCon.

It would make more sense for Elon, which is geographically on the edge of the conference and not far from the Virginia schools. They would still have to fly both BB teams, tennis teams, and the women's volleyball team to Northeastern periodically. They would pick up some media money, but have to spend most of it on increased travel costs. I'm not sure if such a move makes sense for Elon.

[henfan]

It would make more sense for Elon, which is geographically on the edge of the conference and not far from the Virginia schools. They would still have to fly both BB teams, tennis teams, and the women's volleyball team to Northeastern periodically. They would pick up some media money, but have to spend most of it on increased travel costs. I'm not sure if such a move makes sense for Elon.

While it might not appear to make sound financial sense when looking strictly at athletics, schools do depend on athletics as a means of marketing in particular geographic locations. Elon would receive wider geographic exposure in the CAA than they could ever hope for in the SoCon. If Elon is looking to expand its marketing reach northward, financial losses they might incur as a result of CAA travel could be seen as simply the cost of doing business. I suppose it would depend on the amount of the projected loss, if any.

[Saint3333]

Elon has no doubt been calling Richmond everyday this week.

[dgtw]

If it hasn't bothered the OVC for 25 years, it's not going to bother them now.


I agree, I just feel better if I gripe about it every time it comes up.

How would SoConners feel about Jax State? I know they are begging for an FBS spot, just seeing what others think. It would cut down on travel a bit for us, with Samford and Chatty being closer than anybody in the OVC.

[fc97]

Elon has no doubt been calling Richmond everyday this week.

no idea. i like a 14 team socon expanding with any of the listed teams better than expanding all over the eastern seaboard better.

but, elon's primary recruitment and alumni areas are caa footprint areas rather than socon. going caa means more opportunity for alumni events that they simply wont have here. that could increase donations and simply offset some of the costs. like it or not for us southeast elon people, the caa footprint is elon's recruitment area and not the socon footprint.

adam smith, the elon beat writer, thinks nothing is going on. i tend to agree with him.

[Mr. C]

CofC has been working hard behind the scenes to get another SoCon school to move with them for months. Davidson made the most sense, but obviously that fell through. I know Elon is interested but wonder how the poor performance of the basketball program plus the tiny gym will affect a possible invite? Would Furman be interested? A move to the CAA would reunite them with former SoCon members Richmond and W&M.

My CAA source says no chance that Elon gets invited. There never was serious interest in Elon from the CAA.

[rokamortis]

My CAA source says no chance that Elon gets invited. There never was serious interest in Elon from the CAA.

Rumors had mentioned Furman and Wofford in consideration but Elon seems like a better fit. What are your sources telling you about what the CAA plans to do next? Stop for now? Continue with other schools? How many more? No doubt Davidson turning the CAA down has to be disappointing, perhaps they have to regroup.

[jmufan]

They should stop. Personally they need to add schools that have potential and good basketball. But I also understand the need to get members if JMU ever leaves.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[woffordgrad94]

Rumors had mentioned Furman and Wofford in consideration but Elon seems like a better fit. What are your sources telling you about what the CAA plans to do next? Stop for now? Continue with other schools? How many more? No doubt Davidson turning the CAA down has to be disappointing, perhaps they have to regroup.

I'm pretty sure Wofford is not interested in leaving the SoCon at this moment. The CAA would be too much travel. It's too bad Davidson didn't go, at least to me. I wonder if the CAA would've let them keep playing their pee wee league football.

[The Cats]

I'm pretty sure Wofford is not interested in leaving the SoCon at this moment. The CAA would be too much travel. It's too bad Davidson didn't go, at least to me. I wonder if the CAA would've let them keep playing their pee wee league football.

Don't forget, the CAA and CAA Football are actually two different leagues. So yes, Davidson could have continued in the Pioneer League had they joined the CAA.

[Mr. C]

Rumors had mentioned Furman and Wofford in consideration but Elon seems like a better fit. What are your sources telling you about what the CAA plans to do next? Stop for now? Continue with other schools? How many more? No doubt Davidson turning the CAA down has to be disappointing, perhaps they have to regroup.

The word I have is that the CAA will hold for now. I never felt like Davidson was a good fit for the CAA and the Wildcats have those strong roots with the SoCon. Now I do know that the CAA would take App State in a heartbeat ...

[OL FU]

If the SoCon adds Mercer, I want to move to the BigSouth.


Is there any body here not in favor of Apphole movingxthumbsupx

[OL FU]

I have always been a supporter of CCU and SC ST. I understand the footprint argument but I like schools that are close.

Absolutely, we should get some assurance that SC St if correcting its fiscal issues.
I am not concerned with CCU's adademic reputation. I am concerned about some of the issues they are having with the NCAA on basketball. Maybe that is over and nothing came from it. Rok, any word?



I am now a big fan of Kennesaw St joining since I live about 5 miles from there,:)

[utcfan]

Why take SC St with financial issues?

Mercer makes sense to replace CofC...if SoCon adds 2....KSU and CCU make sense

[rokamortis]

I have always been a supporter of CCU and SC ST. I understand the footprint argument but I like schools that are close.

Absolutely, we should get some assurance that SC St if correcting its fiscal issues.
I am not concerned with CCU's adademic reputation. I am concerned about some of the issues they are having with the NCAA on basketball. Maybe that is over and nothing came from it. Rok, any word?



I am now a big fan of Kennesaw St joining since I live about 5 miles from there,:)




I don't follow basketball that closely but I haven't been a big fan of some of the risks on players Cliff has taken - seems like most of the time we lose. I have heard that the APR issues are a priority with the administration but not sure what they may be doing to solve the problem. One of our players was just kicked off of the team for a recent arrest ... so that might have an impact, not sure.