What Top 25 Team Do You Think Harvard Would Defeat?

[The Eagle's Cliff]

I can't figure how Sagarin or anyone else ranks Harvard so high. Their toughest game so far (28-13) was against 3-3 San Diego from the Pioneer Conference.

I believe every team in the Top 25 would defeat them and the Top 15 would crush and embarrass Harvard.

*Expand it to Top 40

[Grizalltheway]

Until the Ivies sack up and prove how good they are in the playoffs, I refuse to give them more than a passing glance. Sorry. xcoffeex

[Vitojr130]

Until the Ivies sack up and prove how good they are in the playoffs, I refuse to give them more than a passing glance. Sorry. xcoffeex

^Agreed. The whole "We are too good to be involved in your measly playoffs" sentiment makes me care about |-| that much about them. But yes, Harvard would get absolutely destroyed by the top 15.

[wapiti]

They would have a chance against Lehigh.

[danefan]

All 25 according to a voter in TSN......

[Sader87]

It would probably be something like Montana St 97 Harvard 3.......at the half.

[Franks Tanks]

They would have a chance against Lehigh.

I think they would beat Lehigh soundly. Harvard absolutely destroyed Holy Cross and Bucknell. These are not good teams, but they absolutely blew them off the field. Harvard would give virtually every FCS top 25 team a good game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

They would beat at least half the top 25, if not more. There, I said it.

[I-16Bandit]

They would beat at least half the top 25, if not more. There, I said it.

DII?

[danefan]

In all seriousness, I think Harvard would give some teams a good game, but I wouldn't have them the favorite against many if any teams.

[Franks Tanks]

They would beat at least half the top 25, if not more. There, I said it.

I agree.

If you don't think Harvard can play, I don't think you know anything about football. The relative train wreck that is Lafayette Football beat William & Mary from the exaulted CAA. The same William & Mary that took JMU to overtime. Harvard would destroy us this year.

[DFW HOYA]

A chance to win at home?
9. Lehigh Mountain Hawks
10. Stony Brook Seawolves
14. Cal Poly Mustangs
17. Tennessee State Tigers
18. Towson Tigers
21. Indiana State Sycamores
23. Eastern Kentucky Colonels
24. Villanova Wildcats
25. Delaware Blue Hens

On the road?
18. Towson Tigers
21. Indiana State Sycamores
24. Villanova Wildcats

[Sader87]

<cough> Last team to beat Harvard???<cough>

[RichH2]

Harvard would give all a good game. IMHO, could beat most up to 15 w/o too much difficulty.

[danefan]

The Patriot League guys are all going to say Harvard could beat the world because they always lose to Harvard.

No one else is going to say that.

I've seen Harvard play on TV and I think they are a Top 25 team. I wouldn't rank them anywhere higher than 20th. Based on the game I saw (Brown) they aren't as fast or athletic as most of the Top 25 teams and certainly not as big or physical.

But you'll never get to an answer here because they refuse to play anyone worth anything in OOC games.

[RichH2]

Dane fact check. We beat Harvard last time we played.

[Sader87]

The Patriot League guys are all going to say Harvard could beat the world because they always lose to Harvard.

No one else is going to say that.

I've seen Harvard play on TV and I think they are a Top 25 team. I wouldn't rank them anywhere higher than 20th. Based on the game I saw (Brown) they aren't as fast or athletic as most of the Top 25 teams and certainly not as big or physical.

But you'll never get to an answer here because they refuse to play anyone worth anything in OOC games.

Like SUNY-Albany????

[danefan]

Like SUNY-Albany????

Really?

I'll let you retract that before you question our OOC games.

[Franks Tanks]

The Patriot League guys are all going to say Harvard could beat the world because they always lose to Harvard.

No one else is going to say that.

I've seen Harvard play on TV and I think they are a Top 25 team. I wouldn't rank them anywhere higher than 20th. Based on the game I saw (Brown) they aren't as fast or athletic as most of the Top 25 teams and certainly not as big or physical.

But you'll never get to an answer here because they refuse to play anyone worth anything in OOC games.

I don't give a crap about the polls or what people think of the Ivies. However the PL guys all think Harvard is good because we play them all the time and see them up close. On several ocassions Lafayette has beaten a CAA or scholarship team in a given season only to be trounced by Harvard. Fact is they have a very good 0-line and a QB who doesn't make mistakes. They are always an extremely well coached team that makes few mistakes. They may struggle a bit defensively against some of the top FCS school, but I don't see them getting blown out.

[Lehigh'98]

Since its theoretical and will never happen. Albany and YSU would tear them up. Probably a pickem against rest of #25-15. Slightly favor them against Lehigh. Crushed by top 10. But again, this is fantasy.

[BisonBohl]

Most of the top 25 would beat Harvard pretty easily. Sorry but its the truth.

[danefan]

Dane fact check. We beat Harvard last time we played.

Valid point. What is Harvard's record versus the Patriot League over the last 5 years?

[Sader87]

Really?

I'll let you retract that before you question our OOC games.

You misconstrued my post Dane....not that UA doesn't play anyone, I meant that Harvard won't play Albany...they will play SUNY-Ithaca though.

[danefan]

I don't give a crap about the polls or what people think of the Ivies. However the PL guys all think Harvard is good because we play them all the time and see them up close. On several ocassions Lafayette has beaten a CAA or scholarship team in a given season only to be trounced by Harvard. Fact is they have a very good 0-line and a QB who doesn't make mistakes. They are always an extremely well coached team that makes few mistakes. They may struggle a bit defensively against some of the top FCS school, but I don't see them getting blown out.

As I said above, Harvard would give most Top 25 teams a good game. I wouldn't favor them against anyone though.

But again, too bad it will never happen.

[danefan]

You misconstrued my post Dane....not that UA doesn't play anyone, I meant that Harvard won't play Albany...they will play SUNY-Ithaca though.

Got it, sorry for the confusion.

I don't blame Harvard for not playing Albany. Its a lose-lose. Fans won't care and when they lose there will be an article in Crimson about their fake football team again.

[Pard4Life]

Here we go... just because they don't participate in the playoffs does not mean they have no talent or are not capable of competing. They are in FCS, so they are in my poll. Harvard sends a few players to the NFL every so often, and a starting NFL QB is a Harvard grad. So is a Seattle Seahawks starting OL. Currently, Harvard has two DLs that are mentioned as NFL draft potentials and I believe their TE will probably make an all-FCS squad. Just look at the talent on the team... not their schedule, or whether or not they participate in the playoffs.

I've seen NDSU play, and Stony Brook, and UNH, and Villanova, and Towson, and JMU... Harvard is not as all-around talented, but they can certainly win. 'Compete' is not even a question... of course they can compete.

[Sader87]

This is just a stupid argument that seems to crop up here repeatedly. (And I can't believe I'm actually defending Harvard again...time for Confession)

Harvard has an alumnus who is a starting QB in the NFL and many others that have played on Sundays over the past couple of decades.

They have been at least the equal of Lehigh the last couple of years and in that time Lehigh has defeated Top 25 teams on the road in the playoffs.

Harvard has many players on its roster that have turned down FBS offers to wear the Crimson etc etc etc

Believe me, I'd love to see a Georgia Southern for instance come into Harvard Stadium and destroy the Johnnies 84-0....it just wouldn't happen.

ETA: Stole my thunder Pard4...bastard lol.

[Dane96]

I agree.

If you don't think Harvard can play, I don't think you know anything about football. The relative train wreck that is Lafayette Football beat William & Mary from the exaulted CAA. The same William & Mary that took JMU to overtime. Harvard would destroy us this year.

Frank...I was at this weekends game, my second live Harvard game.

They would compete with Top 25 (I have them at 24)...but overall they are not as physical and big....and aside from a couple of guys, the team speed just isnt overwhelming.

They are a 20-30 rank team.

[LUHawker]

This is just a stupid argument that seems to crop up here repeatedly. (And I can't believe I'm actually defending Harvard again...time for Confession)

Harvard has an alumnus who is a starting QB in the NFL and many others that have played on Sundays over the past couple of decades.

They have been at least the equal of Lehigh the last couple of years and in that time Lehigh has defeated Top 25 teams on the road in the playoffs.

Harvard has many players on its roster that have turned down FBS offers to wear the Crimson etc etc etc

Believe me, I'd love to see a Georgia Southern for instance come into Harvard Stadium and destroy the Johnnies 84-0....it just wouldn't happen.

ETA: Stole my thunder Pard4...bastard lol.

I think Harvard would surprise most on this board outside of the PL folks and a few CAA fans who live in the Northeast and have seen Harvard over the years.

That being said, and here comes the defense of Lehigh, Sader87, but Harvard was neither the equal or at least the equal of Lehigh the last two years ('10 & '11 is how I took that). LU beat Harvard in 2010 and no way were they close to LU last year. This year is a different story, but Lehigh wouldn't get blown out by the Crimson. Just because your Crusaders laid a massive egg againt Harvard, don't try to drag us all down to your level. :)

[Ivytalk]

Here we go... just because they don't participate in the playoffs does not mean they have no talent or are not capable of competing. They are in FCS, so they are in my poll. Harvard sends a few players to the NFL every so often, and a starting NFL QB is a Harvard grad. So is a Seattle Seahawks starting OL. Currently, Harvard has two DLs that are mentioned as NFL draft potentials and I believe their TE will probably make an all-FCS squad. Just look at the talent on the team... not their schedule, or whether or not they participate in the playoffs.

I've seen NDSU play, and Stony Brook, and UNH, and Villanova, and Towson, and JMU... Harvard is not as all-around talented, but they can certainly win. 'Compete' is not even a question... of course they can compete.

This makes sense to me. And I'm not going to take Eagle's Cliff to the woodshed because I have some very good GSU friends on this very board who are hosting the missus and I for the Appy State game on 11/3.

[Sader87]

Harvard was very similar to Lehigh last year imo....and I think they they basically cake-walked (from what I saw) through this past weekend's 35-7 game against the Bison.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Frank...I was at this weekends game, my second live Harvard game.

They would compete with Top 25 (I have them at 24)...but overall they are not as physical and big....and aside from a couple of guys, the team speed just isnt overwhelming.

They are a 20-30 rank team.

What part didn't impress you, the four-touchdown blowout part, the fourth consecutive game scoring more than 35 points, the combined 10 points allowed in two games?

[Dane96]

The part that I played and coached football, and come from a coaching family so I can assess an actual team playing another actual team. And, I actually went to the game (only because my back is so F'd up I couldn't go to UA's homecoming) with three other actual former college players and coaches who ACTUALLY are from the area...and actually can also assess a game.

We came away with a "Meh-average not dynamic solid team that would give many teams a good game...but would not be favored" assessment.

So...yeah, like I said, Harvard is a top-20-30 team...Bucknell is FAR from impressive, the QB and WR from Harvard could play on many Top 25 teams...and other than that, they are pedestrian with size, agility and speed.

How's that?!

[Gater]

Harvard has three guys in the NFL right now (and had five at the start of the season).
http://www.gocrimson.com/sports/fball/history/Football_In_The_Pros_Media_Center

Eastern Washington (the #1 team) has four.
James Madison (#2 team) has three.
Georgia Southern (#3 team) has one.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/college/_/letter/e

Harvard is free if your family makes under $65,000 a year. 10% of your family's income if you are above that but under $150,000 a year. Harvard is a scholarship school--they just give them to everyone.

[danefan]

Harvard has three guys in the NFL right now (and had five at the start of the season).
http://www.gocrimson.com/sports/fball/history/Football_In_The_Pros_Media_Center

Eastern Washington (the #1 team) has four.
James Madison (#2 team) has three.
Georgia Southern (#3 team) has one.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/college/_/letter/e

Harvard is free if your family makes under $65,000 a year. 10% of your family's income if you are above that but under $150,000 a year. Harvard is a scholarship school--they just give them to everyone.

The SWAC teams have tons of NFL guys. They're horrible teams.

The # of NFL players that used to play for a school has very little correlation with how strong the team is now.

[Dane96]

Harvard has three guys in the NFL right now (and had five at the start of the season).
http://www.gocrimson.com/sports/fball/history/Football_In_The_Pros_Media_Center

Eastern Washington (the #1 team) has four.
James Madison (#2 team) has three.
Georgia Southern (#3 team) has one.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/college/_/letter/e

Harvard is free if your family makes under $65,000 a year. 10% of your family's income if you are above that but under $150,000 a year. Harvard is a scholarship school--they just give them to everyone.

THE BOLD- which is why they should play in the playoffs already and get off their high-horse. In my mind, with the allure of playoffs Harvard could be dominating at this level. They could get every kid who isn't going to an FBS school to play at a Vandy, Stanford, Duke, etc...probably could get some of those too.

Seriously, if Harvard and some of the other Ivy's (Yale without question) had the ability to go to the playoffs and offer basically what amounts to a full-ride...they would scoop up a ton of good kids.

And then this thread would be moot.

[Franks Tanks]

I think Harvard would surprise most on this board outside of the PL folks and a few CAA fans who live in the Northeast and have seen Harvard over the years.

That being said, and here comes the defense of Lehigh, Sader87, but Harvard was neither the equal or at least the equal of Lehigh the last two years ('10 & '11 is how I took that). LU beat Harvard in 2010 and no way were they close to LU last year. This year is a different story, but Lehigh wouldn't get blown out by the Crimson. Just because your Crusaders laid a massive egg againt Harvard, don't try to drag us all down to your level. :)

Lehigh beat Harvard by 3 points in 2010. I think the comparison is mostly justified. Last year's Lehigh team was better than Harvard, but I think Harvard is better than Lehigh this year. Just my personal opinion-- I can't validate it.

[Pard4Life]

The part that I played and coached football, and come from a coaching family so I can assess an actual team playing another actual team. And, I actually went to the game (only because my back is so F'd up I couldn't go to UA's homecoming) with three other actual former college players and coaches who ACTUALLY are from the area...and actually can also assess a game.

We came away with a "Meh-average not dynamic solid team that would give many teams a good game...but would not be favored" assessment.

So...yeah, like I said, Harvard is a top-20-30 team...Bucknell is FAR from impressive, the QB and WR from Harvard could play on many Top 25 teams...and other than that, they are pedestrian with size, agility and speed.

How's that?!

Pretty spot on. Harvard usually gets a small handful of excellent players while the rest are PL types.

[Pard4Life]

Lehigh beat Harvard by 3 points in 2010. I think the comparison is mostly justified. Last year's Lehigh team was better than Harvard, but I think Harvard is better than Lehigh this year. Just my personal opinion-- I can't validate it.

Oh come on... mostly everyone else with a winning record is better than Lehigh this year.

[Dane96]

This makes sense to me. And I'm not going to take Eagle's Cliff to the woodshed because I have some very good GSU friends on this very board who are hosting the missus and I for the Appy State game on 11/3.

I also agree with the way Pard put it.

[Dane96]

True...but as we have seen with Harvard hoops and other Ivies (I have personal friends I played AAU and High School with that should never have been allowed into an IVY), there are loopholes.

And I am NOT talking about the cheating scandal, which I personally think is a load of crap...there was no scandal.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Without seeing them play someone in the Top 25, I can't say for sure. The "# of NFL players" stuff doesn't have a thing to do with College Football TEAMS. Savannah State has put a couple in the NFL.

[Gater]

Funny, I knew someone would bring up that argument about the SWAC. My point is more that Harvard has a lot of great players. You would assume they would be smarter than the average football guys but a bunch of them also have the physical tools to play in the NFL. I would imagine this year's team would do very well against most teams. That being said, their schedule is weaker than it should be--especially with Holy Cross being down this year and because they only play ten games so it's hard to know. I'm torn between them getting the respect and getting shafted in the polls so that they would have some balls and schedule a reach game or two. Harvard at Montana has a nice ring to it. It's a shame how these schools have cut themselves off from the rest of the division they play in.

[frozennorth]

i think harvard would beat at favored over at least 20-25.

[heath]

Using AGS top 25, Harvard would not beat anyone in top 10,but two northeast teams they could/would beat would be Villanova and Lehigh. There are still a few more teams 11-25 they could beat. I think they would go 6-18 against the top 25.(they are ranked)

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

It really is no surprise that the Ivies have some NFL talent...they're the Ivies, surely there are some good players out there willing to play football for a free ride. Doesn't mean much as the SWAC also produced a lot of NFL talent for an FCS conference.

I've watched some Ivy football and my impression is that they tend to have good lines but limited speed. If Harvard was up against a top 25 team with more team speed but clearly inferior lines, then I think they could be competitive. If they have an even match on the lines and are up against teams with superior speed in the defensive backfield and the offensive skill positions they'd lose by several TDs.

[Mr. C]

It would probably be something like Montana St 97 Harvard 3.......at the half.

So does that mean Montana State would put up 200 on Holy Cross in the first half. What was the halftime score and final score of the Harvard-Holy Cross game again?

[Gil Dobie]

Anygivensaturday............

[Mr. C]

THE BOLD- which is why they should play in the playoffs already and get off their high-horse. In my mind, with the allure of playoffs Harvard could be dominating at this level. They could get every kid who isn't going to an FBS school to play at a Vandy, Stanford, Duke, etc...probably could get some of those too.

Seriously, if Harvard and some of the other Ivy's (Yale without question) had the ability to go to the playoffs and offer basically what amounts to a full-ride...they would scoop up a ton of good kids.

And then this thread would be moot.

I guess you missed the fact one of the Harvard starting quarterbacks actually transferred and started at LSU a few years back.

[Pard4Life]

I guess you missed the fact one of the Harvard starting quarterbacks actually transferred and started at LSU a few years back.

Isn't it the other way around?

[crusader11]

Most of the top 25 would beat Harvard pretty easily. Sorry but its the truth.

You ever seen Harvard play before? Ever?

[Pard4Life]

Interesting case study:

Lafayette played the national champion, NDSU, in 2011. A few weeks later, we hosted Harvard.

Scraping away the cobwebs, I recall that NDSU had a pretty monstrous OL that could move. Powerful and quick RB. DL was agile with some size.

Harvard had a very skilled OL but were not as monstrous. RB was not a 'power' type but was quick and agile. In the past, they have had a power back (Clifton Dawson). QB play was about the same. Half of the DL was overpowering and the rest wasn't something I had not seen before on the PL level.

That's all I can remember, but my impression is Harvard was a step down with regard to size (in some spots) and speed, but not raw skill or athleticism. Depth is certainly an issue but NDSU would likely have an advantage with speed and skill in reserve, though perhaps not game experience. In other words, the 'reload' squad in one-two seasons.

[RichH2]

Dont try to convince Bison fans, for them other than a few teams from CAA eberything else is DIII in the east.

[Pard4Life]

Dont try to convince Bison fans, for them other than a few teams from CAA eberything else is DIII in the east.

Once we get our act straightened out, I desperately want a rematch with those guys. We beat the Frankosaurus, but he lives and excels at such games.

[crusader11]

Harvard MAY be the best FCS team in New England. Not saying much, but still.

In looking at this week's top 25, I see no reason that Harvard couldn't beat James Madison. The Dukes nearly lost to a pretty weak W&M team, and I'm fairly confident Harvard would beat The Tribe by a score or more. Hell, Lafayette beat William & Mary.

If Harvard can beat James Madison, I see no reason why they couldn't beat anyone in the country. Seriously.

[Pard4Life]

A tangent, but I was not overly impressed with JMU... I watched their game, and yes, they should have lost... kickers! Bah! Maybe it was an off-game because that happens, but it's why I did not vote them #1 in AGS.

[Lehigh'98]

Harvard MAY be the best FCS team in New England. Not saying much, but still.

In looking at this week's top 25, I see no reason that Harvard couldn't beat James Madison. The Dukes nearly lost to a pretty weak W&M team, and I'm fairly confident Harvard would beat The Tribe by a score or more. Hell, Lafayette beat William & Mary.

If Harvard can beat James Madison, I see no reason why they couldn't beat anyone in the country. Seriously.



Could they win a playoff game? Yes
Could they win 4 games in a row for the title? No
Could they get past the quarterfinals? Very unlikely

[crusader11]

A tangent, but I was not overly impressed with JMU... I watched their game, and yes, they should have lost... kickers! Bah! Maybe it was an off-game because that happens, but it's why I did not vote them #1 in AGS.

I saw them play against Towson and I wasn't overly impressed, as well. But, they are the #2...even more reason why I think Harvard could realistically beat anyone in the country. But (sigh), we will never know.

[crusader11]

Could they win a playoff game? Yes
Could they win 4 games in a row for the title? No
Could they get past the quarterfinals? Very unlikely

Again, we won't know, but when they had Clifton Dawson and Ryan Fitzpatrick (two NFL players in the backfield, fwiw), and Corey Mazza they could have won the national championship. They were THAT good. And those who saw them play that year would probably agree with that statement.

[blueballs]

Again, we won't know, but when they had Clifton Dawson and Ryan Fitzpatrick (two NFL players in the backfield, fwiw), and Corey Mazza they could have won the national championship. They were THAT good. And those who saw them play that year would probably agree with that statement.

Seems like I remember Mr. C posting something to that effect that year... he was very impressed with them that year.

Any Given Saturday...

[Mr. C]

^Agreed. The whole "We are too good to be involved in your measly playoffs" sentiment makes me care about |-| that much about them. But yes, Harvard would get absolutely destroyed by the top 15.

Okay, I get the fact that people don't like Harvard and Yale's condescending attitude towards the playoffs, but teams like Harvard and Penn would hold their own with a lot of teams in the top 25.

Penn is still trying to find itself, but played more competitive than Old Dominion did against Villanova and the Quakers also held their own against William & Mary. William & Mary has struggled to a 2-5 record, but the Tribe was unlucky not to beat JMU and came close to defending CAA champ Towson, too, as well as losing by one to Maryland. The year Villanova won the national championship, no team held the Wildcats in check as much as Penn's defense did. In most years, Harvard is as good, or better than Penn. In 2003, I watched Harvard manhandle Northeastern — the defending Atlantic 10 champion — with Ryan Fitzpatrick and Clifton Dawson leading a team that I felt was good enough to reach the quarterfinals, or maybe even the semifinals that year. Villanova coach Andy Talley says year-in and year-out that Penn is a middle-of-the-pack CAA team. Teams like Penn and Harvard run a lot better than you think. Charleston Southern coach Jay Mills, who has coaches all over America in some big-time programs and was Tim Murphy's OC at Harvard before going to CSU has always talked to me about how the Ivy League has improved its speed. The biggest downside for the Ivies is that their teams are, across-the-board, not as big as teams in the major FCS conferences and the fact that the Ivies do not have as much depth. Brown has beaten Rhode Island more often than not in recent years. Brown lost to Stony Brook by one point and Stony Brook beat Albany and Liberty and almost beat Sam Houston State in the playoffs when the Bearkats were ranked No. 1.

If you want to do other score comparisons with Harvard, Harvard crushed Holy Cross 52-3 and called off the dogs in the second half after building a 49-3 lead. New Hampshire beat Holy Cross 38-17 in a game that was considerable closer than that for much of the way. Does that suggest that Harvard could beat UNH? I'm not sure, but I think Harvard would score a lot of points on UNH (everyone else has). Would Penn beat Old Dominion, considering the Quakers gave Villanova a better game than ODU gave the Cats?

Harvard and Penn might now matchup well with big, physical teams like North Dakota State and some of the other top-10 squads, but would do fine against finesse teams in the rankings.

[crusader11]

Okay, I get the fact that people don't like Harvard and Yale's condescending attitude towards the playoffs, but teams like Harvard and Penn would hold their own with a lot of teams in the top 25.

Penn is still trying to find itself, but played more competitive than Old Dominion did against Villanova and the Quakers also held their own against William & Mary. William & Mary has struggled to a 2-5 record, but the Tribe was unlucky not to beat JMU and came close to defending CAA champ Towson, too, as well as losing by one to Maryland. The year Villanova won the national championship, no team held the Wildcats in check as much as Penn's defense did. In most years, Harvard is as good, or better than Penn. In 2003, I watched Harvard manhandle Northeastern — the Atlantic 10 champion — with Ryan Fitzpatrick and Clifton Dawson leading a team that I felt was good enough to reach the quarterfinals, or maybe even the semifinals that year. Villanova coach Andy Talley says year-in and year-out that Penn is a middle-of-the-pack CAA team. Teams like Penn and Harvard run a lot better than you think. Charleston Southern coach Jay Mills, who has coaches all over America in some big-time programs and was Tim Murphy's OC at Harvard before going to CSU has always talked to me about how the Ivy League has improved its speed. The biggest downside for the Ivies is that their teams are, across-the-board, not as big as teams in the major FCS conferences and the fact that the Ivies do not have as much depth. Brown has beaten Rhode Island more often than not in recent years. Brown lost to Stony Brook by one point and Stony Brook beat Albany and Liberty and almost beat Sam Houston State in the playoffs when the Bearkats were ranked No. 1.

If you want to do other score comparisons with Harvard, Harvard crushed Holy Cross 52-3 and called off the dogs in the second half after building a 49-3 lead. New Hampshire beat Holy Cross 38-17 in a game that was considerable closer than that for much of the way. Does that suggest that Harvard could beat UNH? I'm not sure, but I think Harvard would score a lot of points on UNH (everyone else has). Would Penn beat Old Dominion, considering the Quakers gave Villanova a better game than ODU gave the Cats?

Harvard and Penn might now matchup well with big, physical teams like North Dakota State and some of the other top-10 squads, but would do fine against finesse teams in the rankings.

Great, great post.

And, not to mention, when Villanova won the national championship they were really challenged by Holy Cross (38-28). Just a week later, Villanova disposed of UNH 46-7.

It really irks my that the myopic academia (ironic, I know), won't allow the Ivy League to compete in the playoffs.

At least Yale plays Cal Poly next year, right?

[Mr. C]

Isn't it the other way around?

Andrew Hatch was fourth string at Harvard behind Ryan Fitzpatrick, Liam O'Hagen and Chris Pizzotti (another QB who made it to NFL camp). He transferred to LSU and won a BCS national championship ring. Yes, he did transfer back to Harvard, but then that was after signing with BYU, going on a two-year mission, transferring to Harvard, then transferring to LSU before going back to Harvard. Interesting career.

[Mr. C]

Seems like I remember Mr. C posting something to that effect that year... he was very impressed with them that year.

Any Given Saturday...

The 2003 Harvard team is the best Ivy League team I've seen during my time covering FCS. Now my friend, Al Bagnoli, can dust off some tapes from his great Penn team of the 1990s that won 20-something in a row and had MLB's Mark DeRosa at QB and prove me wrong, but the 2003 Crimson squad was tough as nails.

[crusader11]

The 2003 Harvard team is the best Ivy League team I've seen during my time covering FCS. Now my friend, Al Bagnoli, can dust off some tapes from his great Penn team of the 1990s that won 20-something in a row and had MLB's Mark DeRosa at QB and prove me wrong, but the 2003 Crimson squad was tough as nails.

You're thinking of the 2004 team.

[Sader87]

Dartmouth 1970 was the best Ivy I've seen...."How come the Purples can't stop 'em???" uttered 6 year old Sader87 to dearly departed Sader50 more than once in a 50-14 shellacking at Fitton.

[bulldog10jw]

Dartmouth 1970 was the best Ivy I've seen...."How come the Purples can't stop 'em???" uttered 6 year old Sader87 to dearly departed Sader50 more than once in a 50-14 shellacking at Fitton.

I always wished the Yale '67 (or '68) team, which had what I considered the best offense ever in the IL, could have played the '70 Dartmouth team, which had the best defense ever in the IL.

[Vitojr130]

Okay, I get the fact that people don't like Harvard and Yale's condescending attitude towards the playoffs, but teams like Harvard and Penn would hold their own with a lot of teams in the top 25.

Penn is still trying to find itself, but played more competitive than Old Dominion did against Villanova and the Quakers also held their own against William & Mary. William & Mary has struggled to a 2-5 record, but the Tribe was unlucky not to beat JMU and came close to defending CAA champ Towson, too, as well as losing by one to Maryland. The year Villanova won the national championship, no team held the Wildcats in check as much as Penn's defense did. In most years, Harvard is as good, or better than Penn. In 2003, I watched Harvard manhandle Northeastern — the Atlantic 10 champion — with Ryan Fitzpatrick and Clifton Dawson leading a team that I felt was good enough to reach the quarterfinals, or maybe even the semifinals that year. Villanova coach Andy Talley says year-in and year-out that Penn is a middle-of-the-pack CAA team. Teams like Penn and Harvard run a lot better than you think. Charleston Southern coach Jay Mills, who has coaches all over America in some big-time programs and was Tim Murphy's OC at Harvard before going to CSU has always talked to me about how the Ivy League has improved its speed. The biggest downside for the Ivies is that their teams are, across-the-board, not as big as teams in the major FCS conferences and the fact that the Ivies do not have as much depth. Brown has beaten Rhode Island more often than not in recent years. Brown lost to Stony Brook by one point and Stony Brook beat Albany and Liberty and almost beat Sam Houston State in the playoffs when the Bearkats were ranked No. 1.

If you want to do other score comparisons with Harvard, Harvard crushed Holy Cross 52-3 and called off the dogs in the second half after building a 49-3 lead. New Hampshire beat Holy Cross 38-17 in a game that was considerable closer than that for much of the way. Does that suggest that Harvard could beat UNH? I'm not sure, but I think Harvard would score a lot of points on UNH (everyone else has). Would Penn beat Old Dominion, considering the Quakers gave Villanova a better game than ODU gave the Cats?

Harvard and Penn might now matchup well with big, physical teams like North Dakota State and some of the other top-10 squads, but would do fine against finesse teams in the rankings.

Well and that may be. I think that Harvard might at least give a game to teams ranked 15-25, but I honestly can't see them competing very well with those above 15. Sagarin has them placed at #4 in the FCS, and I see no justification for this. Until they come out and start participating in the playoffs to prove their strength on the field, I'm sloughing them off.

[RichH2]

Standard position by Westerners. Idont care what you say, I dont believe it. We are better because we play each ofher, you dont play us. Huh? Looking for a bootstrap.

[Pard4Life]

Okay, I get the fact that people don't like Harvard and Yale's condescending attitude towards the playoffs, but teams like Harvard and Penn would hold their own with a lot of teams in the top 25.

Penn is still trying to find itself, but played more competitive than Old Dominion did against Villanova and the Quakers also held their own against William & Mary. William & Mary has struggled to a 2-5 record, but the Tribe was unlucky not to beat JMU and came close to defending CAA champ Towson, too, as well as losing by one to Maryland. The year Villanova won the national championship, no team held the Wildcats in check as much as Penn's defense did. In most years, Harvard is as good, or better than Penn. In 2003, I watched Harvard manhandle Northeastern — the Atlantic 10 champion — with Ryan Fitzpatrick and Clifton Dawson leading a team that I felt was good enough to reach the quarterfinals, or maybe even the semifinals that year. Villanova coach Andy Talley says year-in and year-out that Penn is a middle-of-the-pack CAA team. Teams like Penn and Harvard run a lot better than you think. Charleston Southern coach Jay Mills, who has coaches all over America in some big-time programs and was Tim Murphy's OC at Harvard before going to CSU has always talked to me about how the Ivy League has improved its speed. The biggest downside for the Ivies is that their teams are, across-the-board, not as big as teams in the major FCS conferences and the fact that the Ivies do not have as much depth. Brown has beaten Rhode Island more often than not in recent years. Brown lost to Stony Brook by one point and Stony Brook beat Albany and Liberty and almost beat Sam Houston State in the playoffs when the Bearkats were ranked No. 1.

If you want to do other score comparisons with Harvard, Harvard crushed Holy Cross 52-3 and called off the dogs in the second half after building a 49-3 lead. New Hampshire beat Holy Cross 38-17 in a game that was considerable closer than that for much of the way. Does that suggest that Harvard could beat UNH? I'm not sure, but I think Harvard would score a lot of points on UNH (everyone else has). Would Penn beat Old Dominion, considering the Quakers gave Villanova a better game than ODU gave the Cats?

Harvard and Penn might now matchup well with big, physical teams like North Dakota State and some of the other top-10 squads, but would do fine against finesse teams in the rankings.


Verdict is in: Mr. C is right... :end of thread.

[Mr. C]

Great, great post.

And, not to mention, when Villanova won the national championship they were really challenged by Holy Cross (38-28). Just a week later, Villanova disposed of UNH 46-7.

It really irks my that the myopic academia (ironic, I know), won't allow the Ivy League to compete in the playoffs.

At least Yale plays Cal Poly next year, right?

Holy Cross gave Villanova about as tough of a game as anyone outside of William & Mary (14-13 win in the semifinals) during the playoffs. Andy Talley was so impressed with Dominic Randolph in that game and a bad call on a fumble probably kept it from being even tighter.

[aceinthehole]

The Patriot League guys are all going to say Harvard could beat the world because they always lose to Harvard.

No one else is going to say that.

But you'll never get to an answer here because they refuse to play anyone worth anything in OOC games.

The NEC fans have been saying this for years. The Ivy just doesn't even have enough games against non-PL teams to gage their relative ranking.

[aceinthehole]

QUESTION: When was Harvard's last non-conference win vs. a non-Patriot League opponent?
ANSWER: 2004 - vs. Northeastern


QUESTION: How many non-conference games vs. a non-Patriot League opponents has Harvard played since 1992?
ANSWER: 6. (4 games vs. Northeastern and 2 games vs. William and Mary)

Yes, Harvard may be the best Ivy and/or PL team in any given year, but NO ONE really knows how they stack up in a NATIONAL POLL because they NEVER play anyone outside of the Ivy or PL.

[WrenFGun]

They would beat at least half the top 25, if not more. There, I said it.

Haha. Based on what? Witchcraft? It's certainly not talent.

[DFW HOYA]

QUESTION: Outside of Williamsburg, what was the last time Harvard played any game played outside the Ivy/PL footprint?
ANSWER: Sep. 24, 1949 (at Stanford; lost 44-0)

[Sader87]

Haha. Based on what? Witchcraft? It's certainly not talent.

I witnessed both beatdowns this year....Harvard beat us down a LOT worse than UNH...just sayin'.

[ElCid]

If Harvard or any other top Ivy team began play the first week of Sept and played a full schedule of 11 games with a normal ration of home and away games, they would win maybe 2-3 games against the top 25 FCS. As it is, they don't get beat up early or nearly enough as everyone else in other conferences.

What I have always suspected is that the Ivy League (at least the administrations) likes their apparent superiority in academic reputation and they do not like consorting with the rift raft even if it is in football, in case it tarnishes their overall rep. Lose to the likes of Ga Southern, NDSU, or Montana St. and it does not fit with the overall image of the league. Not that anyone would confuse academic standing with athletic standing, but it is an image thing. They can stand to lose to some PL or old CAA school occasionally, but not to one of the masses.

How Princeton decided to play Citadel a few years ago is anyone's guess. Cid was in bottom of SOCON and I guess they thought they could pick off a SOCON team. Oops, we handled them easily in 09 even when we went 2-6 in the SOCON. Princeton is no Harvard, but the concept is the same.

[crusader11]

If Harvard or any other top Ivy team began play the first week of Sept and played a full schedule of 11 games with a normal ration of home and away games, they would win maybe 2-3 games against the top 25 FCS. As it is, they don't get beat up early or nearly enough as everyone else in other conferences.

What I have always suspected is that the Ivy League (at least the administrations) likes their apparent superiority in academic reputation and they do not like consorting with the rift raft even if it is in football, in case it tarnishes their overall rep. Lose to the likes of Ga Southern, NDSU, or Montana St. and it does not fit with the overall image of the league. Not that anyone would confuse academic standing with athletic standing, but it is an image thing. They can stand to lose to some PL or old CAA school occasionally, but not to one of the masses.

How Princeton decided to play Citadel a few years ago is anyone's guess. Cid was in bottom of SOCON and I guess they thought they could pick off a SOCON team. Oops, we handled them easily in 09 even when we went 2-6 in the SOCON. Princeton is no Harvard, but the concept is the same.

Great post, and I agree with you. The thought of having to travel anywhere south of Philadelphia is ostensibly scoffed upon by those whose desks reside inside ivory towers. Sad, but true.

[Sader87]

The Ivies have historically played the Service Academies including the Citadel...

[heath]

Maybe,just maybe Robin could have beat the crap out of Batman on any given Saturday. We'll never know.

[ElCid]

The Ivies have historically played the Service Academies including the Citadel...

Maybe the Army and Navy, but the first and only times that The Citadel has played against the Ivy League was against Princeton in 08/09.

[Sader87]

Maybe the Army and Navy, but the first and only times that The Citadel has played against the Ivy League was against Princeton in 08/09.

My bad...I thought they had played more Ivies in that I know they had played a few of the PL schools over the years. (Didn't do my homework)

The Citadel would be a good PL associate member of the PL but I'm sure they are very happy in the SoCon.

[ElCid]

And the Citadel series was a disaster, and not just because you destroyed us on the field. Our schools are very different.

I was actually very glad we played you. I like playing folks from different parts of the country and being from NJ myself and having once thought I might like to go to Princeton, it was great, and not just because we beat youxpeacex

I know there was to do with the Princeton Band on campus in Charleston, but you all did us right when we came to visit.

[Mr. C]

QUESTION: When was Harvard's last non-conference win vs. a non-Patriot League opponent?
ANSWER: 2004 - vs. Northeastern


QUESTION: How many non-conference games vs. a non-Patriot League opponents has Harvard played since 1992?
ANSWER: 6. (4 games vs. Northeastern and 2 games vs. William and Mary)

Yes, Harvard may be the best Ivy and/or PL team in any given year, but NO ONE really knows how they stack up in a NATIONAL POLL because they NEVER play anyone outside of the Ivy or PL.

And how many times has Harvard played a non-PL team in non-conference play during those years? Harvard played San Diego this season and last played a CAA team, Northeastern, in 2004. But that doesn't mean the Crimson can't be evaluated. If you know what you are looking at, it isn't that difficult.

[ElCid]

My bad...I thought they had played more Ivies in that I know they had played a few of the PL schools over the years. (Didn't do my homework)

The Citadel would be a good PL associate member of the PL but I'm sure they are very happy in the SoCon.

I think we played Princeton because of our coach's ties as a former Lehigh coach. I think we would fit with PL but we are hanging tough with a good season every now and then in the SOCON. I do have great memories as a youngster growing up in the NE of going to a few PL games. When I got down south, I learned that football is actually a religion.xthumbsupx

[Dane96]

Again, we won't know, but when they had Clifton Dawson and Ryan Fitzpatrick (two NFL players in the backfield, fwiw), and Corey Mazza they could have won the national championship. They were THAT good. And those who saw them play that year would probably agree with that statement.

That team...100% could have played for the NT...no qustions asked. That team was amazing...a really great squad to watch.

[Dane96]

Double post.

[Dane96]

And how many times has Harvard played a non-PL team in non-conference play during those years? Harvard played San Diego this season and last played a CAA team, Northeastern, in 2004. But that doesn't mean the Crimson can't be evaluated. If you know what you are looking at, it isn't that difficult.

You mean like 5 former players and coaches watching a game this weekend, in person?!?!

BTW...Harvard does have a lineman that is just plain filthy. He would start on EVERY team in FCS. Forget his name....but he was pancaking people left and right.

[Mr. C]

You're thinking of the 2004 team.

You are correct. One other thing, I couldn't find any record of Towson and Harvard playing.

[Mr. C]

You mean like 5 former players and coaches watching a game this weekend, in person?!?!

BTW...Harvard does have a lineman that is just plain filthy. He would start on EVERY team in FCS. Forget his name....but he was pancaking people left and right.

I just hope you and your friends keep an open mind. I haven't made up my mind on this Harvard team either, though I know the Crimson have some talent. The tight end is another player that is good as almost anyone in the country. He is probably a second-team All-American at this point. It will be interesting to see Harvard on Saturday.

[Mr. C]

That team...100% could have played for the NT...no qustions asked. That team was amazing...a really great squad to watch.

There are a lot of folks in the coaching profession that shared that view.

[Dane96]

I just hope you and your friends keep an open mind. I haven't made up my mind on this Harvard team either, though I know the Crimson have some talent. The tight end is another player that is good as almost anyone in the country. He is probably a second-team All-American at this point. It will be interesting to see Harvard on Saturday.

First, just so you know, that was a comment for others who UNLIKE YOU, keep saying Harvard can do this and that...but haven't watched them play or don't have the YEARS of even reporting experience to understand what is actually going on during the game. I just dont want you thinking that was meant for you!!!! It wasn't.

Second, my mind is wide open. For me it is frustrating because I think Harvard could easily be a consistent Top 25 team if they were able to play for the playoffs.

But I have watched them 4 times this year, multiple in person. I think they are real tough...and as I said earlier, a Top 20-30 team...but they are not a a 1-20 team...and they are not a #1 like some knucklehead voted them in one of the TSN or Coaches poll...forget which one.

Are they tough and good...yes...but they would be hard pressed to do well week in and week out.

[Ivytalk]

QUESTION: Outside of Williamsburg, what was the last time Harvard played any game played outside the Ivy/PL footprint?
ANSWER: Sep. 24, 1949 (at Stanford; lost 44-0)

Check your facts. We played Army in the 80s and beat them once. We used to play UMass and BU regularly, as well as Northeastern.

[Dane96]

Counselor, just a quick comment; DFW HOYA is correct.

Army, BU, NU, and UMASS are IN THE IVY/PL footprint.

He was commenting that aside from the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic, Harvard hasn't played a game outside of the footprint but for a game at W&M.

Think you misread his comment.

[ngineer]

The Patriot League guys are all going to say Harvard could beat the world because they always lose to Harvard.

No one else is going to say that.

I've seen Harvard play on TV and I think they are a Top 25 team. I wouldn't rank them anywhere higher than 20th. Based on the game I saw (Brown) they aren't as fast or athletic as most of the Top 25 teams and certainly not as big or physical.

But you'll never get to an answer here because they refuse to play anyone worth anything in OOC games.

Talk about speaking our of you bung hole. In the last 15 years, Lehigh in ten meetings with Harvard is 6-4. The overall series of 17 games going back to 1928 has Harvard with a 'huge' 9-8 lead. This makes your second statement also ridiculous, as well. We haven't refused to play anyone. Indeed, getting games with 'power conference' teams is difficult because many use their open dates for payday games with FBS schools. So we're left playing schools like Albany, Monmouth, Villanova, Liberty, New Hampshire and the various Ivies. That will hopefully change once the scholarships kick and we reach the equivalency number.

[Ivytalk]

Counselor, just a quick comment; DFW HOYA is correct.

Army, BU, NU, and UMASS are IN THE IVY/PL footprint.

He was commenting that aside from the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic, Harvard hasn't played a game outside of the footprint but for a game at W&M.

Think you misread his comment.

Then he meant a geographical footprint, instead of a league footprint. He wasn't clear. Our upset win at Michie Stadium was one of the great games in Harvard history.

[Sader87]

Piggy-backing ngineer, yes we were embarrased in Allston this year but:

2007 Holy Cross 31 Harvard 28

2009 Holy Cross 27 Harvard 20

2011 Holy Cross 30 Harvard 22

We are 24-39-2 in games between these two fine institutions dating back to 1904.

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/patriot/holy_cross/opponents_records.php?teamid=1381

[Hawk98]

Lehigh has the same problem that 'mid-majors' in college basketball have. Beating Lehigh gets CAA/MVFC no credit, and losing to them is considered a disaster, so it's not worth playing them in a home and home and having a 50% shot at losing at Lehigh and a 35-40% shot at losing at home when there is no benefit to winning. Better to just play the no risk FBS games or some of the I-AA patsies (for example, Lafayette) to get the free win.

[Pard4Life]

Lehigh has the same problem that 'mid-majors' in college basketball have. Beating Lehigh gets CAA/MVFC no credit, and losing to them is considered a disaster, so it's not worth playing them in a home and home and having a 50% shot at losing at Lehigh and a 35-40% shot at losing at home when there is no benefit to winning. Better to just play the no risk FBS games or some of the I-AA patsies (for example, Lafayette) to get the free win.

Right... because W&M got a free win. Liberty got a free win. Richmond got two free wins. You may need to fact check that, paht-na.

[Dane96]

Then he meant a geographical footprint, instead of a league footprint. He wasn't clear. Our upset win at Michie Stadium was one of the great games in Harvard history.

I hate talking lawyer to lawyer. Hahahaha....you are correct my friend! Indeed...geographical would have been the correct descriptor.

[MTfan4life]

Lehigh has the same problem that 'mid-majors' in college basketball have. Beating Lehigh gets CAA/MVFC no credit, and losing to them is considered a disaster, so it's not worth playing them in a home and home and having a 50% shot at losing at Lehigh and a 35-40% shot at losing at home when there is no benefit to winning. Better to just play the no risk FBS games or some of the I-AA patsies (for example, Lafayette) to get the free win.

No risk FBS games??? There's a much greater risk of injuries against FBS schools, especially the elite ones. Also, these schools don't play FBS teams just for fun. Not every school has the financial advantages that schools like Lehigh have. They need the FBS games to help their athletic programs stay financially afloat.

[Mr. C]

Piggy-backing ngineer, yes we were embarrased in Allston this year but:

2007 Holy Cross 31 Harvard 28

2009 Holy Cross 27 Harvard 20

2011 Holy Cross 30 Harvard 22

We are 24-39-2 in games between these two fine institutions dating back to 1904.

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/patriot/holy_cross/opponents_records.php?teamid=1381

The Holy Cross-Harvard series has been an entertaining one for the most part. This year's game was a shocker.

[Mr. C]

First, just so you know, that was a comment for others who UNLIKE YOU, keep saying Harvard can do this and that...but haven't watched them play or don't have the YEARS of even reporting experience to understand what is actually going on during the game. I just dont want you thinking that was meant for you!!!! It wasn't.

Second, my mind is wide open. For me it is frustrating because I think Harvard could easily be a consistent Top 25 team if they were able to play for the playoffs.

But I have watched them 4 times this year, multiple in person. I think they are real tough...and as I said earlier, a Top 20-30 team...but they are not a a 1-20 team...and they are not a #1 like some knucklehead voted them in one of the TSN or Coaches poll...forget which one.

Are they tough and good...yes...but they would be hard pressed to do well week in and week out.

I did realize the post wasn't aimed at me. We are on the same page as far as Harvard is concerned. I probably didn't articulate that as well as I should have. I just want people to look at games with an open eye. I am just as interested to see how much Princeton has improved since I saw them a few weeks ago. I wouldn't be surprised if the Tigers don't play Harvard tighter than people might think.

[danefan]

[/B]

Talk about speaking our of you bung hole. In the last 15 years, Lehigh in ten meetings with Harvard is 6-4. The overall series of 17 games going back to 1928 has Harvard with a 'huge' 9-8 lead. This makes your second statement also ridiculous, as well. We haven't refused to play anyone. Indeed, getting games with 'power conference' teams is difficult because many use their open dates for payday games with FBS schools. So we're left playing schools like Albany, Monmouth, Villanova, Liberty, New Hampshire and the various Ivies. That will hopefully change once the scholarships kick and we reach the equivalency number.

Harvard refuses to play anyone. Not Lehigh.

Harvard could schedule anyone in the country if the wanted to.

[HensRock]

Lehigh has the same problem that 'mid-majors' in college basketball have. Beating Lehigh gets CAA/MVFC no credit, and losing to them is considered a disaster, so it's not worth playing them in a home and home and having a 50% shot at losing at Lehigh and a 35-40% shot at losing at home when there is no benefit to winning. Better to just play the no risk FBS games or some of the I-AA patsies (for example, Lafayette) to get the free win.

Two words:







GO PARDS !!!!

[aceinthehole]

Harvard refuses to play anyone. Not Lehigh.

Harvard could schedule anyone in the country if the wanted to.

Exactly! Harvard has played just 6 games vs. non-Ivy/PL opponents in the previous 19 seasons.

Harvard could probably schedule almost any FCS non-PL team AT HOME, without even have to return a game on the road. So why don’t they?

Harvard CHOOSES not to play anyone but PL teams in non-conference games. Without Northeastern in their backyard, how many non-PL opponents do you expect Harvard will schedule in the next decade?

[Sonic98]

Lehigh has the same problem that 'mid-majors' in college basketball have. Beating Lehigh gets CAA/MVFC no credit, and losing to them is considered a disaster, so it's not worth playing them in a home and home and having a 50% shot at losing at Lehigh and a 35-40% shot at losing at home when there is no benefit to winning. Better to just play the no risk FBS games or some of the I-AA patsies (for example, Lafayette) to get the free win.


Wow that's kind of shocking. I would be expecting most people to have the attitude anyone, anytime, any place if their team is just that good. Sounds like the same line FBS teams for why they always play FCS teams at home. It depends on the program. I've seen mid-major basketball teams host many games against bigger programs.

[DFW HOYA]

Is there anything that prevents Harvard from simply insisting all its non-conf games be played at home? Back in the 1980's, Harvard played as many as seven of its 10 games at home.

[danefan]

Wow that's kind of shocking. I would be expecting most people to have the attitude anyone, anytime, any place if their team is just that good. Sounds like the same line FBS teams for why they always play FCS teams at home. It depends on the program. I've seen mid-major basketball teams host many games against bigger programs.

Albany has had the same problem scheduling, which is why in some years we've had 7 away games.

Maine is the only major conference team willing to schedule us in a home-and-home and we're 4-2 against them.

[danefan]

Is there anything that prevents Harvard from simply insisting all its non-conf games be played at home? Back in the 1980's, Harvard played as many as seven of its 10 games at home.

Nothing. They have the stadium and the money to pay teams to come to Cambridge or at least cover their travel costs. The downside of losing to lower academic level schools in front of their home elite crowd fans is too large, IMO.

Could you imagine if Old Dominion went to Cambridge and beat Harvard by 2 TDs. What kind of article would the Crimson write then?

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Sooooo, people who live in the Northeast believe Harvard has a good team and because there are so many people living stacked on top of each other in the Northeast, they're correct and Harvard is #4 in the FCS. Got it, Thanks.xthumbsupx

It must be the same logic people use to decide Harvard is a superior school. Based on what I've seen from Barry Soetoro, I'm less than impressed with the Harvard degree.

[M Ruler]

Sooooo, people who live in the Northeast believe Harvard has a good team and because there are so many people living stacked on top of each other in the Northeast, they're correct and Harvard is #4 in the FCS. Got it, Thanks.xthumbsupx

It must be the same logic people use to decide Harvard is a superior school. Based on what I've seen from Barry Soetoro, I'm less than impressed with the Harvard degree.

You my friend may be the only one on this board, if not in the nation that feels that way.

A degree from Harvard is superior to all. Yes, that includes Duke, Vanderbilt, and Emory.

[Dane96]

Sooooo, people who live in the Northeast believe Harvard has a good team and because there are so many people living stacked on top of each other in the Northeast, they're correct and Harvard is #4 in the FCS. Got it, Thanks.xthumbsupx

It must be the same logic people use to decide Harvard is a superior school. Based on what I've seen from Barry Soetoro, I'm less than impressed with the Harvard degree.

Ummmm...no. Those of us living up here are saying tehy are NOT as a good as advertised. It is a select few....from all over the country that are saying otherwise.

As far as academics. Really...can you be that dense? That said, I don't care where you graduated from as long as you can do the job. But a Harvard degree is one of only a few in the world...maybe 10 (throwing some European schools in here) that will get you in the proverbial door.

Come on...don't be a fool.

[ngineer]

The Ivies don't give a crap about what the rest of the football world thinks. They have their own little universe based on a strict philosophy ingrained from the scandals of the early 1950's which resulted in the watering down of football. While their other sports teams partake of the NCAA playoffs, I think the separation of football is due to the much larger number of players and money involved and the resultant concern of letting the 'feeding the beast' frenzy start again. It's purely philosophical and nothing more. It still doesn't mean they don't play good football as they can recruit any real good student who can play football from anywhere in the country. If the student's priority is education, then he's nuts for not accepting the virtual free ride to such a school.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Ummmm...no. Those of us living up here are saying tehy are NOT as a good as advertised. It is a select few....from all over the country that are saying otherwise.

As far as academics. Really...can you be that dense? That said, I don't care where you graduated from as long as you can do the job. But a Harvard degree is one of only a few in the world...maybe 10 (throwing some European schools in here) that will get you in the proverbial door.

Come on...don't be a fool.

I'll quote yours and I knew I'd open a can of worms when I clicked submit. I know the perception of the Ivy degree and where it can lead, but WHY?

What makes a Harvard professor smarter than one from a SUNY?

[Sader87]

Sooooo, people who live in the Northeast believe Harvard has a good team and because there are so many people living stacked on top of each other in the Northeast, they're correct and Harvard is #4 in the FCS. Got it, Thanks.xthumbsupx

It must be the same logic people use to decide Harvard is a superior school. Based on what I've seen from Barry Soetoro, I'm less than impressed with the Harvard degree.

Are we going to have to send Gen. Sherman down there again????

[Dane96]

I'll quote yours and I knew I'd open a can of worms when I clicked submit. I know the perception of the Ivy degree and where it can lead, but WHY?

What makes a Harvard professor smarter than one from a SUNY?

It doesn't...but it makes them sought after. However, to your point, it's why Albany, and not MIT, Stanford, Harvard, CalTech, Yale, etc. , is considered the Nanotech epicenter of universities; we have the best talent in research.

That said...Professors are sought after for two reasons: in field accomplishments and research/book writing. For example, most schools have a "published" requirement if you teach at research center.

So...in the end, Harvard gets to pick the perceived best of the best...and same for all top-notch schools. David Gergen is not teaching at Belmont University unless he is getting a sick *** fellowship with payola. He is going to Harvard for the payola...and to say, I tought at one of the best government schools in the land.

[Dane96]

Are we going to have to send Gen. Sherman down there again????

Only thing Sherman would do is light his cigar with the embers of Atlanta (whistling, and it 'aint Dixie I am whistlin')....

;)

[M Ruler]

I'll quote yours and I knew I'd open a can of worms when I clicked submit. I know the perception of the Ivy degree and where it can lead, but WHY?

What makes a Harvard professor smarter than one from a SUNY?

While I really don't think its the faculty at Harvard or any University for that matter that makes the schools reputation, they certainly contribute. Its the percieved academic reputation. Who gets the interview, the graduate from Harvard or the graduate from any other school on earth?

Personally, I believe the professor at Harvard is superior to the professor at Albany just as the DE @ Georgia is superior to the DE @ GSU. If the Albany professor or the GSU DE were that good they would be at Harvard and Georgia respectivly.

In the end, they have all written books and force the student body to buy them.

[Sader87]

To continue with the hijack of this thread, many will tell you that Harvard (or the Ivies in general) really isn't the best place to go for your undergraduate degree....too many TA's lecturing, larger classes, higher student-professor ratio etc etc than say a school that focuses primarily on undergraduate work, like say, um College of the Holy Cross?

[citdog]

Are we going to have to send Gen. Sherman down there again????


He's probably kind of busy felching Hitler in the lowest point of Hades reserved for war criminals. Tojo is jealous of their relationship.

[citdog]

Only thing Sherman would do is light his cigar with the embers of Atlanta (whistling, and it 'aint Dixie I am whistlin')....

;)



360,000 dead yankee invaders wasn't enough. How I wish it were 3 MILLION.

[Ivytalk]

I think this thread has now exhausted its usefulness, now that we've descended to comparing professors and academic programs. I got a good education at Harvard: I'm not arrogant or loyal enough to say it was the best. So back to football, and may the Ivy Presidents see the light and invite NDSU, GSU, Appy and Montana to Cambridge. Hell, make it home-and-homes.xtwocentsx

[The Eagle's Cliff]

I think this thread has now exhausted its usefulness, now that we've descended to comparing professors and academic programs. I got a good education at Harvard: I'm not arrogant or loyal enough to say it was the best. So back to football, and may the Ivy Presidents see the light and invite NDSU, GSU, Appy and Montana to Cambridge. Hell, make it home-and-homes.xtwocentsx

I think it would be awesome to play at place like Harvard.

Sent from my Milestone X using Tapatalk 2

[Dane96]

Harvard Stadium is an amazing place to watch football. And if you think of the history while watching the game in front of you...it blows your mind.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Boards like this one will be the only place such games are played out. The fact that we have gone fourteen pages addresses the interest in seeing the Crimson in the tournament. But that won't happen as long as the pinnacle of college football between Boston and NYC is the last Saturday of the season in either New Haven or Cambridge. To mix it up with the commoners is only a step down, no different than the BCS and everyone else in the FBS.

Harvard Stadium, Yale Bowl, Franklin Field... all awesome football venues in the FCS, perfect for some playoff ball.

[ngineer]

Boards like this one will be the only place such games are played out. The fact that we have gone fourteen pages addresses the interest in seeing the Crimson in the tournament. But that won't happen as long as the pinnacle of college football between Boston and NYC is the last Saturday of the season in either New Haven or Cambridge. To mix it up with the commoners is only a step down, no different than the BCS and everyone else in the FBS.

Harvard Stadium, Yale Bowl, Franklin Field... all awesome football venues in the FCS, perfect for some playoff ball.

Good post and so true. Nice to see a newbie for the PL...your Bison are under represented around here!

[Mr. C]

After watching just a little over a quarter at Princeton Stadium, I am prepared to say that Harvard is very, very good. This team would compete with most of FCS.

[Engineer86]

After see the final score and 29-0 Princeton fourth quarter, they can't beat one of Lehigh's "cupcakes":D

[Pard4Life]

After see the final score and 29-0 Princeton fourth quarter, they can't beat one of Lehigh's "cupcakes":D

That's a cynical statement if anything. And you almost gagged on it... Princeton is no cupcake. I've seen them 3 times.

[Engineer86]

That's a cynical statement if anything. And you almost gagged on it... Princeton is no cupcake. I've seen them 3 times.

Really, as long as Lehigh is not playing them they are not a cupcake? You can't take shots at every LU win and then turn around and talk about how good the team is. Can you?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

You beat us by a field goal. If we're a cupcake, we're now a 4-2 cupcake.

Princeton is legit. Engineer was just stating that you guys are officially a quality "W" for the Hawks.

[Engineer86]

You beat us by a field goal. If we're a cupcake, we're now a 4-2 cupcake.

You are not, just pointing out how Lehigh's 3 point win was supposedly such a terrible win.

[Mr. C]

Harvard would kick Lehigh's butt in all honesty. Georgetown and Lehigh are somewhat lucky that they played Princeton earlier in the season, though the potential loss of a starting QB might really hurt the Tigers now.