Patriot League Pick 'em - Week 8

[carney2]

There may be a few OOC games remaining because of the odd number of League members, but the preseason is officially over. We’re playing for real from here.

Week 8, October 20, 2012:

BUCKNELL @ LEHIGH
HOLY CROSS @ LAFAYETTE
GEORGETOWN @ COLGATE
FORDHAM - Bye

The Patriot League is 16-15 Year-to-Date vs. OOC:

1-2 in Week 7:
vs. Big East 0-1
vs. Big South 1-1
vs. CAA 1-3
vs. D-2 1-0
vs. Ivy 7-7
vs. MVC 0-1
vs. NEC 4-2
vs. PFL 2-0


STANDINGS:
(Patriot League W-L is listed first, followed by overall W-L)
(These are not the “official” standings because Fordham is included.)

Lehigh 2-0, 7-0
Colgate 1-0, 3-3
Lafayette 1-0, 4-2
Fordham* 1-1, 4-3
Holy Cross 1-1, 1-5
Bucknell 0-2, 1-5
Georgetown 0-2, 3-4

*Ineligible for League championship and auto-bid.

[van]

LEHIGH, but will we make it close?
LAFAYETTE, assuming Shoop is back, lost any confidence in Crossers
COLGATE, long trip from DC takes a toll on hoyas following loss to Engineers
FORDHAM - licking wounds following money game

[Hawk98]

Lehigh, Lafayette, and Colgate.

[RichH2]

Boy not ready for next week yet.
LU over BU will they cover?

Pards over Cross

Gate over Hoyas

Rams well deserved bye.

[Pard4Life]

There is little doubt on the outcome of this week's games... except one. Lafayette has a bad recent history with Holy Cross, an has not won since 2007.

[van]

There is little doubt on the outcome of this week's games... except one. Lafayette has a bad recent history with Holy Cross, an has not won since 2007.

Oh no, more curse paranoia. xcoffeex

[carney2]

Oh no, more curse paranoia. xcoffeex

No curse. Just facts. Dominic the Dominator did it to the Pards through much of that time. They did it to themselves the rest of the time.

[carney2]

BUCKNELL @ LEHIGH - The Squawks need to stick it to someone because crap like last week is making for lots of doubters. If not the Buffaloes, then who?

HOLY CROSS @ LAFAYETTE - Not predicted with conviction. Two teams stuck in neutral.

GEORGETOWN @ COLGATE - Not yet on the 'gate bandwagon. Definitely off the Hoya wagon.

[crusader11]

No curse. Just facts. Dominic the Dominator did it to the Pards through much of that time. They did it to themselves the rest of the time.

Holy Cross' win at Lafayette in 2008 was a complete meltdown by Lafayette. Total breakdown in coverage on HC's final touchdown pass to Rob Koster (a former QB converted WR).

[carney2]

A mild nod to Georgetown @ Colgate for Game of the Week. I wouldn't travel to the tundra to see it, however. Maybe Holy Cross @ Lafayette could work into the conversation. I wouldn't give up shopping for laundry detergent to go to the Bucknell @ Lehigh fiasco.

[Hawk98]

A mild nod to Georgetown @ Colgate for Game of the Week. I wouldn't travel to the tundra to see it, however. Maybe Holy Cross @ Lafayette could work into the conversation. I wouldn't give up shopping for laundry detergent to go to the Bucknell @ Lehigh fiasco.

Lehigh Touchdowns, Lehigh fumbles lost, or Colvin INT, which will be highest next week?

[crusader11]

Lehigh Touchdowns, Lehigh fumbles lost, or Colvin INT, which will be highest next week?

I'll go with a tie across the board: two in each category.

[DFW HOYA]

GEORGETOWN @ COLGATE - Not yet on the 'gate bandwagon. Definitely off the Hoya wagon.

I think the bandwagon took a break on the fifth play of the season.

[RichH2]

Sadly true. Who's to say how Hoyas would have done with their QB. Likely better than they have.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Sadly true. Who's to say how Hoyas would have done with their QB. Likely better than they have.

Georgetown still needs to get better in the trenches. I thought Lehigh really controlled the line of scrimmage yesterday.

[RichH2]

Didn't say GU would beat us even with him but likely could have won more.

[van]

Lehigh Touchdowns, Lehigh fumbles lost, or Colvin INT, which will be highest next week?

Touchdowns, by a hair!

[Hawk98]

Touchdowns, by a hair!

That's what I'm thinking

4 TD
3 INT
1 fumble lost

[van]

That's what I'm thinking

4 TD
3 INT
1 fumble lost

Sounds about right, LOL.

[ngineer]

Lehigh should put on a show for a Homecoming Crowd...should be decent with a number of Bison alums in the Valley. Lehigh 31 Bucknell 13

Holy Cross has been n LC's head a few times, but LC's play at Yale seems to indicate Frank has righted the ship. I think this will be a close one with a big play providing the difference in the fourth quarter. Lafayette 27-24.

Long haul to Hamilton on top of the disappointment of last week not good for Hoyas. I can't see them handling the Raiders on the tundra. Colgate 28 Georgetown 20

Fordhams have to week to figure out if they're "Ram Tough"...

[Pard4Life]

Blown XP doomed us in 2008. Two blown XPs and zebra doomed us in 2009. We doomed us in 2010 on a punt attempt. Last year zebras doomed us again. What's next?

[jimbo65]

Lehigh
LaFayette
Colgate

49-17 isn't a moral victory but Fordham played Cinn tough. 1/2 time score 14-6. FU kicker was 3-4 in fgs including a 53 yarder and averaged 55 yds per punt. He is not very big so I don't know as to the NFL but if size doesn't matter, he has a shot.

[CFBfan]

Didn't say GU would beat us even with him but likely could have won more.

and yet with just an average kicker defined as better then 0 for 3, GU likely beats Lehigh

[CFBfan]

Lehigh
LaFayette
Colgate

49-17 isn't a moral victory but Fordham played Cinn tough. 1/2 time score 14-6. FU kicker was 3-4 in fgs including a 53 yarder and averaged 55 yds per punt. He is not very big so I don't know as to the NFL but if size doesn't matter, he has a shot.

that's the 1 position i really don't think size matters and in addition to his kicking the kid is one hell of a punter too (Oh if only he played for the Hoyas!!). I woyld be shocked if we don't see him on Sundays!

[carney2]

Blown XP doomed us in 2008. Two blown XPs and zebra doomed us in 2009. We doomed us in 2010 on a punt attempt. Last year zebras doomed us again. What's next?

How about doomed by F&F, Frank and Fein? Need a brain scan or two in Bourger. Flat line predicted.

[Sader87]

How about doomed by F&F, Frank and Fein? Need a brain scan or two in Bourger. Flat line predicted.

Mickey Fein is a proud, native from the Cape of Cod....you're lucky to have him.

[carney2]

Mickey Fein is a proud, native from the Cape of Cod....you're lucky to have him.

That may very well be, but the natives are getting restless. Offensive decisions and play calling are abominable. Two schools of thought at the moment:

Clean house and make sure that the broom hits Fein.

vs.

Tavani's fingerprints are all over this. It doesn't matter who the OC is or what he does, it has to pass through the filter of The Frankosaurus before it gets on the field.

One very well respected poster on the Lafayette board has even called for Frank to get it done or get himself a rocking chair (i.e., retirement). It is getting worse by the week however. At Yale for instance, 52% of the Pards' first down plays went for zero gain or a loss. 52%!!! How many coaching staffs that you know of are willing to just kiss off first down?

Back to your comment, let's just say that Mickey Fein is not currently a favorite son.

[Pard4Life]

That may very well be, but the natives are getting restless. Offensive decisions and play calling are abominable. Two schools of thought at the moment:

Clean house and make sure that the broom hits Fein.

vs.

Tavani's fingerprints are all over this. It doesn't matter who the OC is or what he does, it has to pass through the filter of The Frankosaurus before it gets on the field.

One very well respected poster on the Lafayette board has even called for Frank to get it done or get himself a rocking chair (i.e., retirement). It is getting worse by the week however. At Yale for instance, 52% of the Pards' first down plays went for zero gain or a loss. 52%!!! How many coaching staffs that you know of are willing to just kiss off first down?

Back to your comment, let's just say that Mickey Fein is not currently a favorite son.

Carney... curious, but we are looking at that 52% in a vacuum... if you have time, what percentage of Lehigh's first down plays went for zero gain or a loss? They had a tough game, so I'm curious to know.

[van]

Carney... curious, but we are looking at that 52% in a vacuum... if you have time, what percentage of Lehigh's first down plays went for zero gain or a loss? They had a tough game, so I'm curious to know.

The answer is 23% (I included 1st and goal also). Although there were a number of 1 and 2 yard gains in there. Lehigh moved the ball fairly well when we weren't turning it over.

[carney2]

Carney... curious, but we are looking at that 52% in a vacuum... if you have time, what percentage of Lehigh's first down plays went for zero gain or a loss? They had a tough game, so I'm curious to know.

Lehigh ran 32 first down plays: 20 runs and 12 passes.

7 of those plays (22%) went for no gain or a loss: 4 incomplete passes, 1 "knee," and 2 runs for zero gain or a loss.

Comparing to Lafayette:

Lafayette ran 27 first down plays: 17 runs and 10 passes.

14 of those plays (52%) went for no gain or a loss: 5 incomplete passes, 2 "knees," and 7 runs for zero gain or a loss.

[LEHIGH07]

Big LU fan, and recently just joined the site.......Obviously i'm very familiar with Lehigh but I'm wondering about the other squads in the league this year. Haven't done much research besides review other teams' W-L records and see how they did against common Lehigh opponents.

From what i can tell the only two teams left that could dereail an LU undfeated regular season is the Gate' and Lafayette (and that only b/c the gm is @ Lafayette and you never can tell with rivalries)......Any thoughts on if this is seems accurate? The Gate's offense scares me but they struggled against HC this week before pulling away late which surprised me. Plus they play LU in Bethlehem which gives me a little more comfort

[RichH2]

Gate has best O along with Fordham. Neither have much D. All Gate games shootouts, dangerous game for LU. Our edge is we have D.
Pards hard to call. Opportunstic D. Talent on O. Shoop, Ross, Scheuerman. OL better than last but far from good. Going to watch them vs Cross to actually see what's up.
Parity a dirty word but real this yr. Should win BU and HC but neither is a given.

[LEHIGH07]

I appreciate it Rich......If we can get Spadola back in time for Colgate and Lafayette that'd be a huge bonus! Parris, Kurfis and Fernandez-Soto are going to get some great experience with Ryan out the next couple of weeks which can only help.

Any news on Haggins? I feel for the guy he was supposed to be the best TE in the league his Sr yr and he cant get away from these injuries.

[crusader11]

Lehigh @ Holy Cross will be no gimme for the Enginehawks. Always a tough and competitive game, even when one squad is having an up or down season.

PLC will come down to Colgate @ Lehigh on November 10, in my opinion.

[RichH2]

Looks like Ryan could be back for Cross from Andy's comments. And yes 11, I expect Cross game to be another cardiac conflict for us.

[Lehigh'98]

Lehigh 27-10, Lafayette 35-33, Gate 30-24

[Pard4Life]

Big LU fan, and recently just joined the site.......

Turn around and go back to where you came from...

[carney2]

I'm wondering about the other squads in the league this year.

BUCKNELL - 1-5 for a reason. Not a threat to beat Lehigh or almost anyone else.

COLGATE - Could score points against anyone. Would give up points to the South Bethlehem 8 & Unders. If you want to beat them you must engage in an offensive shootout. You're right, this will be a problem for the ChiickenSquawks.

FORDHAM - Finally showing the benefits of scholarships. Lehigh was fortunate to get them early. The November Rams could be formidable.

GEORGETOWN - Lost their QB early, but don't know how much difference it would have made. Have somehow lost their "edge" from last year.

HOLY CROSS - Picked no. 2 in preseason, but have not impressed. Could still turn things around and be a factor.

LAFAYETTE - Not nearly as good as their record indicates. Offensively challenged, with poor OL play, and brain dead offensive coaching. Very young at almost every position and very opportunistic on defense where they lead the nation in interceptions.

[ngineer]

Big LU fan, and recently just joined the site.......Obviously i'm very familiar with Lehigh but I'm wondering about the other squads in the league this year. Haven't done much research besides review other teams' W-L records and see how they did against common Lehigh opponents.

From what i can tell the only two teams left that could dereail an LU undfeated regular season is the Gate' and Lafayette (and that only b/c the gm is @ Lafayette and you never can tell with rivalries)......Any thoughts on if this is seems accurate? The Gate's offense scares me but they struggled against HC this week before pulling away late which surprised me. Plus they play LU in Bethlehem which gives me a little more comfort

Welcome aboard...it's a great place to exchange with of the FCS fanatics, and learn abit about the rest of the country...which can be a bit scary at times

[van]

Lehigh @ Holy Cross will be no gimme for the Enginehawks. Always a tough and competitive game, even when one squad is having an up or down season.

PLC will come down to Colgate @ Lehigh on November 10, in my opinion.

Have to agree with you on this one crusader.

[LEHIGH07]

Thanks for the welcome Pard...... i guess anywhere is better than Easton, Pa, other than that where would you like me to go?

Anyone hear anything more about the 2014 LEHIGH-Laf game being played @ Yankee Stadium?

[carney2]

Anyone hear anything more about the 2014 LEHIGH-Laf game being played @ Yankee Stadium?

Don't know how strong a candidate Yankee Stadium is, but the rumor continues that the game may be moved to a neutral site. Lafayette coach Frank Tavani says that at least 30,000 tickets would have to be sold to make this viable.

[van]

Thanks for the welcome Pard...... i guess anywhere is better than Easton, Pa, other than that where would you like me to go?

Anyone hear anything more about the 2014 LEHIGH-Laf game being played @ Yankee Stadium?

Way to get em riled up '07! xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx

[LUHawker]

and yet with just an average kicker defined as better then 0 for 3, GU likely beats Lehigh

You realize that two of those kicks were blocked/deflected and the kid missed a 47 yarder, so I think you're laying a little too much blame on the kicker. I can't say whether he doesn't get enough lift or not, but if the line doesn't block, kickers are putting through the uprights.

[LEHIGH07]

Welcome aboard...it's a great place to exchange with of the FCS fanatics, and learn abit about the rest of the country...which can be a bit scary at times

I appreciate the welcome......this is great chatter on the FCS, specifcially Patriot League and Lehigh. I've spent my whole day off from work on the site and am loving it.

[carney2]

Thanks for the welcome Pard...... i guess anywhere is better than Easton, Pa, other than that where would you like me to go?

If this is the best you have, I'd advise you to duck and cover during the week leading up to Nov. 17th.

[Ivytalk]

Lehigh, Lafayette, and Colgate.

Agreed!

[LUHawker]

If this is the best you have, I'd advise you to duck and cover during the week leading up to Nov. 17th.

Pay no attention to this one; he is already on suicide watch on the Pards' board. That being said, sees his team more clearly than most. Sometimes even sees our team more clearly than most.

[JimboCBA72]

Lehigh
LaFayette
Colgate

49-17 isn't a moral victory but Fordham played Cinn tough. 1/2 time score 14-6. FU kicker was 3-4 in fgs including a 53 yarder and averaged 55 yds per punt. He is not very big so I don't know as to the NFL but if size doesn't matter, he has a shot.

Jimbo: Murray kicked a PL record 55 yarder vs Cats and he averaged 47+ yds on his punts.

[RichH2]

Duck and cover apt for pre GAME week. Fun but vitriolic at times

[TheValleyRaider]

PLC will come down to Colgate @ Lehigh on November 10, in my opinion.

That sounds familiar...

[Pard4Life]

Pay no attention to this one; he is already on suicide watch on the Pards' board. That being said, sees his team more clearly than most. Sometimes even sees our team more clearly than most.

No that's me...

Carney is not on suicide watch; he's just come back to where he usually is after an odd 'bump' against W&M.

[LEHIGH07]

Haha - I love it already! Good info with a side of some smack talk, can't beat it. The fact that LU hasn't lost to Laf since my sr yr, 2007 and the fact that it appears that a lot of Pards appear to be having off the field issues with suspensions for "violations of team rules".....I am feeling good about Nov17th, but we will see - even a blind pard finds a mountain hawk once in a while.

On another note with Loyola and Boston joining the league next year - are there any plans for their schools to start a football program?

[Pard4Life]

Thanks for the welcome Pard...... i guess anywhere is better than Easton, Pa, other than that where would you like me to go?

Anyone hear anything more about the 2014 LEHIGH-Laf game being played @ Yankee Stadium?

Easton gets a bad rap... it's a nice place. Since you are new, I'll be nice and not tell you where you should go... Lehigh fans here a like a virus.. they keep multiplying and consuming bytes and bytes of space and my patience. And then there's LFN, who's winded blog posts and outlandish predictions and conspiracy theories that are like a spiraling vortex, sucking the presence and energy of every PL school into his Lehigh 'black-hole' so that the rest of FCS and AGS believes that Lehigh is the Patriot League, and that a winning Lehigh team is the only way the Patriot League becomes a respectable national league.

[Pard4Life]

Haha - I love it already! Good info with a side of some smack talk, can't beat it. The fact that LU hasn't lost to Laf since my sr yr, 2007 and the fact that it appears that a lot of Pards appear to be having off the field issues with suspensions for "violations of team rules".....I am feeling good about Nov17th, but we will see - even a blind pard finds a mountain hawk once in a while.

On another note with Loyola and Boston joining the league next year - are there any plans for their schools to start a football program?

Hardly... we graduate our players and our star WR does not embarrass himself nationally before the biggest game of the past decade. Our team rules are essentially "if you miss a homework assignment, suspended."

[TheValleyRaider]

5-0 last week, looking good at 28-11 going into the back half of the season

Bucknell at Lehigh Lehigh Lehigh continues to scuffle along this season, but wins are wins, and they are undefeated. Bucknell also scuffles along, but at 1-5. Bison play solid defense (Harvard would rip up lots of defenses), and Lehigh is prone to turnovers which could cause some trouble. Still, the Hawks would have to completely melt down (even more so than the 7 turnovers against the Hoyas) for the Bison to win this one in Bethlehem. It may be early, or it might be late, but Lehigh eventually pulls away

Holy Cross at Lafayette Lafayette Toughest game to pick this week, as both sides have alternated good and bad performances. HC might be better than their record indicates, and Elder certainly looks like he could carry the QB mantle going forward, but their record still is bad. Lafayette's record is actually decent, though you wouldn't be able to tell from fan reaction. Still, frustrating wins are better than no wins, and playing at home the Leopards stumble their way into another victory. What it means going to the rest of the year is still unclear

Georgetown at Colgate Colgate The offense continues to roll, and McCarney-McCord displays some shades of Sullivan-Eachus with a powerful run game behind a strong offensive line. The defense still worries me, and while they are capable of some second half adjustments, that's still lots of yards being yielded. I maintain this is roughly what I expected from the team this year (I recall predicting 7 wins, tops), though this was before watching the rest of the League struggle as it has. Georgetown is clearly not the same team as last year, and while the Hoyas win big last time, I expect a better 'Gate squad at home to get to 2-0 in League play

[crusader11]

Hardly... we graduate our players and our star WR does not embarrass himself nationally before the biggest game of the past decade. Our team rules are essentially "if you miss a homework assignment, suspended."

Hey, at least neither Lehigh nor Lafayette is like Colgate, where the star running back is allowed to break into dorm rooms around campus, steal money from students, and still play in games the following season.

[Pard4Life]

Hey, at least neither Lehigh nor Lafayette is like Colgate, where the star running back is allowed to break into dorm rooms around campus, steal money from students, and still play in games the following season.

Now now, he was suspended for one game.

[RichH2]

Ah, nice to see Cross follow up on all the Gate rivalry talk. Need that bile to fuel it. Age alone not enuf.

[TheValleyRaider]

Now now, he was suspended for one game.

And spent time in prison for it xreadx

[carney2]

And spent time in prison for it xreadx

And, what a difficult couple of hours that must have been.

[RichH2]

Boy, nice to get more involved in trash talk. Just need a Bison and a Ram.

[Lehigh'98]

Lehigh with a 14 game winning streak against the Bison....yikes. '97 last W for them (I remember they had a real good RB back then, cant remember his name).

[Franks Tanks]

Lehigh with a 14 game winning streak against the Bison....yikes. '97 last W for them (I remember they had a real good RB back then, cant remember his name).

Are you thinking of Jabu Powell? He wasn't at Bucknell in 97' however.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

RB Rich Lemon?

[Lehigh'98]

Are you thinking of Jabu Powell? He wasn't at Bucknell in 97' however. Rich Lemon(4742 career yds), but 1996 was his last year. Gave our D fits.

[Lehigh'98]

beat me to it LFN

[Franks Tanks]

Rich Lemon(4742 career yds), but 1996 was his last year. Gave our D fits.

Bucknell had some good teams back in the mid to late 90's. They were very physical and ran the ball well.

[Lehigh'98]

Yes, their defense was very physical. Still recovering from brain fog from playing against them

[LEHIGH07]

Who would you say were some of the best teams in the Patriot League over the last 25 years or so.......I know you have got to put Colgates 2003 squad right at the top making it to the I-AA title game that year. I am a little biased towards the following LU squads but wanted to know your guys' thoughts -
Lehigh98' - 12-1 (12th)
Lehigh00' - 12-1 (8th)
Lehigh01' - 11-1 (5th)
Lehigh11' - 11-2 (5th)

[Pard4Life]

Who would you say were some of the best teams in the Patriot League over the last 25 years or so.......I know you have got to put Colgates 2003 squad right at the top making it to the I-AA title game that year. I am a little biased towards the following LU squads but wanted to know your guys' thoughts -
Lehigh98' - 12-1 (12th)
Lehigh00' - 12-1 (8th)
Lehigh01' - 11-1 (5th)
Lehigh11' - 11-2 (5th)

We may have discussed this at one point, but...

1) Holy Cross 1987
2) Colgate 2003
3) Lehigh 2001
4) Lehigh 2000
5) Lafayette 1988

HM: Lehigh 1998, Fordham 2002, Holy Cross 2009, Lafayette 2005

[Lehigh'98]

I think the LU teams w Stambaugh and Colgate teams with Vena were very good (I'M admittedly biased though). HC in the 80's with G. Lockbaum. Colgate 2003 and LU 2011, 00, 01. Bucknell '96. I'm sure Lafayette had a few good teams too, maybe.

[RichH2]

Pretty fair lineup P4L.

[LUHawker]

No that's me...

Carney is not on suicide watch; he's just come back to where he usually is after an odd 'bump' against W&M.

That is DEFINITELY not you, P4L. You could barely even acknowledge that Lehigh was a top team last year until forced into it by every other follower of FCS.

[RichH2]

In case anyone still interestdd in picks
Bassett
LU-BU 31-7
Gate-GU 28-24
LC-HC 28-21

Massey

LU-BU 20-3
LC-HC 24-21
Gate-GU 38-26

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Who would you say were some of the best teams in the Patriot League over the last 25 years or so.......I know you have got to put Colgates 2003 squad right at the top making it to the I-AA title game that year. I am a little biased towards the following LU squads but wanted to know your guys' thoughts -
Lehigh98' - 12-1 (12th)
Lehigh00' - 12-1 (8th)
Lehigh01' - 11-1 (5th)
Lehigh11' - 11-2 (5th)

Lehigh's ranking in 1998 is skewed. People simply didn't know how to rank PL teams after HC disappeared in the early 90's. The PL did a formal ranking last year as part of their 25th anniversary. If I was on a computer I would post it.

Mine
1. 1987 Holy Cross
2. 2003 Colgate
3. 2011 Lehigh
4. 1998 Lehigh
5. 1991 Holy Cross

[Pard4Life]

That is DEFINITELY not you, P4L. You could barely even acknowledge that Lehigh was a top team last year until forced into it by every other follower of FCS.

No... do I need to post my poll again? After they beat Towson I ranked them highly. And I watched the game. And about a bunch of other Lehigh games too.

[Pard4Life]

Lehigh's ranking in 1998 is skewed. People simply didn't know how to rank PL teams after HC disappeared in the early 90's. The PL did a formal ranking last year as part of their 25th anniversary. If I was on a computer I would post it.

Mine
1. 1987 Holy Cross
2. 2003 Colgate
3. 2011 Lehigh
4. 1998 Lehigh
5. 1991 Holy Cross

Forgot about 1991 HC... I don't think 2011 Lehigh is better than 2000, 2001 Lehigh and certainly not top 5.

[RichH2]

2011 not good enuf for top 5. Hard to accept. Could it be that your objectivity improves the further back in time you go. Well reasonable men can differ. Number of teams could fit in.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Forgot about 1991 HC... I don't think 2011 Lehigh is better than 2000, 2001 Lehigh and certainly not top 5.

Ciaccio and Cory Vincent were Sr's in '91. They finished #3 in the country.

I would put last years Lehigh team up against the '00 and ' 01 versions. Offensively last years team was better than either of those two. Only the '99 or '91 team had a better offense.

2000 was better than '01. Hall was healthy, better DL, tougher schedule...

[LEHIGH07]

I've always loved the Phil Stambaugh and Kevin Higgins' offenses of the late 90's for LU. But Lehigh's offense from last year was an absolute machine. After watching them play down @ Townson in the playoffs and pretty much score on EVERY possession i had to give their O an edge over the past teams'

[Lehigh'98]

This is really nitpicky, but if you take it to how far they advanced, '11, 98, & 00 made it to the quarters. Only the 98 team came close to winning. 8 yds at UMASS. That's why I put them slightly ahead. 2011 had a potent offense though and does it really matter.

[Sader87]

87 HC team should probably have an * in that they were all scholarship....that being said they were the best PL team ever and it's really not close.

The '89 team was pretty strong too.

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/patriot/holy_cross/yearly_results.php?year=1985

[RichH2]

I like the *. That team dominated all of us. We just could not compete with them . That said level of PL much higher this decade than back in the 80s. Gate and LU could give them s game.

[RichH2]

I like the *. That team dominated all of us. We just could not compete with them . That said level of PL much higher this decade than back in the 80s. Gate and LU could give them s game.

[Sader87]

I actually think Colgate was better in the 80's but it's hard to judge different eras....Lehigh teams were probably very strong in the late 90's/early 00's but I really didn't see them/pay attention to the PL in that era.

[Bogus Megapardus]

This will be an interesting week in the PL, to say the least. I'm looking forward to see what the sportsbook lines will be.

[van]

This will be an interesting week in the PL, to say the least. I'm looking forward to see what the sportsbook lines will be.

Another great avatar Bogie, thanks for the entertainment!

[CFBfan]

You realize that two of those kicks were blocked/deflected and the kid missed a 47 yarder, so I think you're laying a little too much blame on the kicker. I can't say whether he doesn't get enough lift or not, but if the line doesn't block, kickers are putting through the uprights.
he has kicked line drives too many times not just the LU game but several into the backs of his own line

[Lehigh Football Nation]

he has kicked line drives too many times not just the LU game but several into the backs of his own line

All I can say was that it appeared that both were blocked/deflected off the line, whether it was from a "poor kick" or missed blocking on the kick.

[DFW HOYA]

All I can say was that it appeared that both were blocked/deflected off the line, whether it was from a "poor kick" or missed blocking on the kick.

When a kicker's career long is 35, no field goal is a given.

Apparently, that's better than the backup PK, who has no attempts this season.

[carney2]

For those who might be inclined to move this thread back to its primary topic, I am pointing out that the Holy Cross @ Lafayette game is the Pards' homecoming. For anyone who might leap to the conclusion that this could be meaningful, don't. Homecoming at Lafayette is a nothing affair. People who are serious about meeting and greeting classmates and friends go to the Lehigh game, both home and way. That's the way it is and the way it has always been.

[DFW HOYA]

Speaking of Lafayette, is LC the only at-large candidate if the Engineers win out? Colgate has three losses but that may not be good enough.

[RichH2]

Realistically, Lehigh is only shot for an at-large for PL. Possible for Gate to take PL.

[Pard4Life]

Our loss to RMU negates any shot for at-large. I'm just worried about the next game and our non-existent offense.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Fordham, with four wins to close the year, would be 8-3 (but with 7 D-I wins) but played the toughest schedule, and have only lost to FBS Cincinnati, nationally-ranked Lehigh and possibly playoff-bound Villanova. Still, they'd lack a real signature win, and would seem to be behind, say, a 7-4 Youngstown State with their win over Pitt.

Lafayette would be an extremely weak 8-3 with that loss to RMU, and would be behind Fordham IMO.

Colgate would be 7-4 with no quality win, and they would also be extremely unlikely to make it.

At 10-1, Lehigh would probably be sent on the road in the first round of the playoffs and make it as an at-large. At 9-2, though, with a weak schedule, you have to wonder if they'd even make the field.

[ngineer]

For those who might be inclined to move this thread back to its primary topic, I am pointing out that the Holy Cross @ Lafayette game is the Pards' homecoming. For anyone who might leap to the conclusion that this could be meaningful, don't. Homecoming at Lafayette is a nothing affair. People who are serious about meeting and greeting classmates and friends go to the Lehigh game, both home and way. That's the way it is and the way it has always been.

Same here. Our "homecoming" is this weekend also against Bucknell. Despite all the efforts, the expected attendance won't be much more than 9,000 imo. Alums from any distance,if cost and time are an issue, will come "home" for the Lafayette game whether it's in Easton or Bethlehem.

[DFW HOYA]

Same here. Our "homecoming" is this weekend also against Bucknell. Despite all the efforts, the expected attendance won't be much more than 9,000 imo. Alums from any distance,if cost and time are an issue, will come "home" for the Lafayette game whether it's in Easton or Bethlehem.

9,000 is a very significant number for a school of Lafayette's size--by comparison, Georgetown is twice as large and hasn't drawn 9,000 for a game since the 1965 season.

(Where you would actually put 9,000 people if they showed up at the MSF is an issue for another thread...)

[ColgateTD]

Mind if I break in here to post this week's predictions?

Lehigh over Bison, 36-7
Lafayette over Cross, 17-13
Colgate over G'town, 35-17

28-11 so far

[LUHawker]

Fordham, with four wins to close the year, would be 8-3 (but with 7 D-I wins) but played the toughest schedule, and have only lost to FBS Cincinnati, nationally-ranked Lehigh and possibly playoff-bound Villanova. Still, they'd lack a real signature win, and would seem to be behind, say, a 7-4 Youngstown State with their win over Pitt.

Lafayette would be an extremely weak 8-3 with that loss to RMU, and would be behind Fordham IMO.

Colgate would be 7-4 with no quality win, and they would also be extremely unlikely to make it.

At 10-1, Lehigh would probably be sent on the road in the first round of the playoffs and make it as an at-large. At 9-2, though, with a weak schedule, you have to wonder if they'd even make the field.

I generally would say that even at 9-2, Lehigh would get in. The caveat, however, is that that means they go 2-2 in their last four and the Selection Committee seems to consider whether a team has played themselves into the playoffs or if they have crawled to the finish line. In LU's case, it would look more like the latter than the former.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I generally would say that even at 9-2, Lehigh would get in. The caveat, however, is that that means they go 2-2 in their last four and the Selection Committee seems to consider whether a team has played themselves into the playoffs or if they have crawled to the finish line. In LU's case, it would look more like the latter than the former.

I see your point, but taking the Top 25 as a general barometer, what would losses to, say, Colgate and Lafayette in consecutive weeks do to Lehigh's ranking, whether at No. 7 or No. 4? They could very well fall completely out of the Top 25, and it's likely the computer models would be even less forgiving.

[Go...gate]

Who would you say were some of the best teams in the Patriot League over the last 25 years or so.......I know you have got to put Colgates 2003 squad right at the top making it to the I-AA title game that year. I am a little biased towards the following LU squads but wanted to know your guys' thoughts -
Lehigh98' - 12-1 (12th)
Lehigh00' - 12-1 (8th)
Lehigh01' - 11-1 (5th)
Lehigh11' - 11-2 (5th)

1987 Holy Cross better than any of those squads, including '03 Colgate. One of the greatest I-AA teams ever.

[Go...gate]

Lehigh 50, Bucknell 14

Holy Cross 27, Lafayette 24

Colgate 42, Georgetown 28

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lehigh 50, Bucknell 14

I hope you're right!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Any word on Haggins?

[Engineer86]

I generally would say that even at 9-2, Lehigh would get in. The caveat, however, is that that means they go 2-2 in their last four and the Selection Committee seems to consider whether a team has played themselves into the playoffs or if they have crawled to the finish line. In LU's case, it would look more like the latter than the former.

Put the 2-2 finish together with our inconsistent play and closer than expected play in the first 7 games , and there is certainly reason to question inclusion. However last year there were many making arguments for Georgetown to get in at 8-3, so I would think there is cause for hope, perhaps not confidence.

Lets just win.

[van]

Any word on Haggins?

not listed on 2 deep, suspect he is out this week, if not longer.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I hope you're right!

Lehigh has not scored 50 points under Coen. The last time they hit half-a-hundred was against Colgate in 2005.

[DFW HOYA]

1987 Holy Cross better than any of those squads, including '03 Colgate. One of the greatest I-AA teams ever.

Makes you wonder where HC would be as a program today if the PL had allowed scholarships at its founding.

[Hawk98]

No way Lehigh gets in, and probably doesn't deserve to, if they go 2-2 the rest of the way.

[LEHIGH07]

Whats the tie breaker for the league in the event of a three way tie where they all beat eachother?

[Pard4Life]

Common OOC results and then GPI I believe.

[Pard4Life]

Or instead of GPI, there may be a vote by the ADs.

[DFW HOYA]

Whats the tie breaker for the league in the event of a three way tie where they all beat eachother?

Or it goes to Lafayette because the other schools have held the title more recently.

[Sader87]

Makes you wonder where HC would be as a program today if the PL had allowed scholarships at its founding.

Don't start....

[ngineer]

not listed on 2 deep, suspect he is out this week, if not longer.

Not good. The two sophs are promising, but they're not Haggins, either in terms of a receiver threat or in blocking. Part of the problem with inconsistent play by offense is the constant musical chairs with receivers that disrupts continuity, timing and anticipation. Hopefully both Haggins and Spadola are ready for the run through the gauntlet in November.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Whats the tie breaker for the league in the event of a three way tie where they all beat each other?

I think it's record vs. common OOC opponents (i.e., Fordham), then a vote from the ADs from the non-tied schools. In which case Lehigh's win over Fordham might loom very large.

[jdb037]

Lehigh 50, Bucknell 14


Haha what a joke. We won't score 14

[Lehigh'98]

Haha what a joke. We won't score 14


Ha!!! Maybe not, but LU won't come close to 50 against your D, this will be low scoring and ugly.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

30-9 Overall

Colgate 38 Georgetown 27 - The Hoya's put a bit of a scare in the Raiders but CU just too strong at home

Lafayette 24 Holy Cross 14 - The 'Pards are the better team, especially at home in front of a solid crowd

Lehigh 30 Bucknell 13 - A methodical win. Some good, some bad, need Spadola and Haggins back on offense.

[carney2]

All this love for the Pards is unwarranted. With The Frankosaurus making offensive decisions this team could lose to a Robert Morris. Come to think of it,...

[RichH2]

Easy Carney Pards have shown they can win. Cross not so much.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The dream scenario for Lehigh this weekend would be Lehigh, Holy Cross, and Georgetown all winning this weekend. It would set up a winner-take-all with Lafayette and Colgate for the honor of who could possibly knock off Lehigh, and Holy Cross would have a must-win against Georgetown (that is no gimme) just to stay relevant.

Not impossible.

[Go...gate]

Makes you wonder where HC would be as a program today if the PL had allowed scholarships at its founding.

All kidding aside, they would have been the Big East. The program at that time was much stronger than many of the schools which later entered the conference, including Rutgers, Temple, Connecticut, Louisville and Cincinnati.

[Go...gate]

The dream scenario for Lehigh this weekend would be Lehigh, Holy Cross, and Georgetown all winning this weekend. It would set up a winner-take-all with Lafayette and Colgate for the honor of who could possibly knock off Lehigh, and Holy Cross would have a must-win against Georgetown (that is no gimme) just to stay relevant.

Not impossible.

Colgate will not underestimate Georgetown. They hammered us last year.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Ivy/Patriot Sportsbook:

Penn (-9) at Yale

Brown (-5) vs Cornell

Lehigh (-17) vs Bucknell

Harvard (-11) at Princeton

Lafayette (-6) vs Holy Cross

Colgate (-12) vs Georgetown

Dartmouth (-10) at Columbia

* * * * * * *

. . . . and some others:

New Hampshire (-5) at Maine

Delaware (-24) vs Rhode Island

James Madison (-4½) at Richmond

App State (-4½) vs Wofford

[DFW HOYA]

All kidding aside, they would have been the Big East. The program at that time was much stronger than many of the schools which later entered the conference, including Rutgers, Temple, Connecticut, Louisville and Cincinnati.

In 1979, maybe, but by 1986 Rev. Brooks had set a different course and HC has not been considered since. More likely, HC would have been in the CAA along with Villanova had the PL not come to fruition...which it might not have if all it had were five schools.

[RichH2]

Heck if that had happenef, we'd all be in CAA. Other than GU

[DFW HOYA]

Heck if that had happenef, we'd all be in CAA. Other than GU

In 1975, the ECAC grouped all independents south of Philadelphia into something called the ECAC South, which included Georgetown, Richmond, VCU, Old Dominion, W&M, Navy, James Madison etc. A few years later, the move by the ECAC to mandate round-robin scheduling among its various conferences was one of the reasons Georgetown, St. John's, PC, and Syracuse met to form its own league. The ECAC South rebranded themselves as the CAA a few years later...so if there was no Big East, it's possible Georgetown could have ended up staying in the CAA. Where football would have settled, who knows.

[Go...gate]

In 1979, maybe, but by 1986 Rev. Brooks had set a different course and HC has not been considered since. More likely, HC would have been in the CAA along with Villanova had the PL not come to fruition...which it might not have if all it had were five schools.

I highly doubt there would ever have been a Patriot League had schools not re-classified to I-A and I-AA. HC, Colgate and others were quite content as "Major Independents", which they had been for decades. They liked being able to schedule whomever they pleased.

[carney2]

The dream scenario for Lehigh this weekend would be Lehigh, Holy Cross, and Georgetown all winning this weekend. It would set up a winner-take-all with Lafayette and Colgate for the honor of who could possibly knock off Lehigh, and Holy Cross would have a must-win against Georgetown (that is no gimme) just to stay relevant.

Not impossible.

Realistic chances:

Lehigh beats Bucknell - 95%+

Holy Cross beats Lafayette - 40%

Georgetown beats Colgate - 25%

[DFW HOYA]

I highly doubt there would ever have been a Patriot League had schools not re-classified to I-A and I-AA. HC, Colgate and others were quite content as "Major Independents", which they had been for decades. They liked being able to schedule whomever they pleased.

Agreed. It speaks to the three planks of the PL: those to whom the the league was a step up from the MAC and ECC (Leh, Laf, Bucknell), those to whom it was a step down from their success as an independent (HC, Colgate), and those to whom it's a safe harbor for sports that can't compete in its native conference (Georgetown, Fordham).

[Engineer86]

Agreed. It speaks to the three planks of the PL: those to whom the the league was a step up from the MAC and ECC (Leh, Laf, Bucknell), those to whom it was a step down from their success as an independent (HC, Colgate), and those to whom it's a safe harbor for sports that can't compete in its native conference (Georgetown, Fordham).

Not trying to argue about it, but I have never viewed the Colonial/Patriot League as a step up for Lehigh. Before the league was formed in the mid 80's, Lehigh was routinely playing at least Four Yankee conference teams, along with Colgate, as well as Army or Navy or one year both.

I will grant you the step down for Gate and Cross, but I just don't see the Patriot League as a step up for Lehigh schedule, actually I see a clear step down.

[Tunkmaster]

Whats the tie breaker for the league in the event of a three way tie where they all beat eachother?

Patriot League Tie-Breaking Procedure For The NCAA Automatic Qualifier


In the case of ties in the final standings for regular-season League play, the following process will be used until all ties are broken and the seeding process is completed (ties will be broken in rank order beginning with the highest seed):

If a tie exists, the higher seed will go to the team that won the most head-to-head League contest(s) played against the other team(s) involved in the tie.

ii. If a tie still exists, a comparison of League records will be made between the tied institutions starting at the highest seed and continuing through the lowest seed, if necessary. (excluding Fordham University)

iii. If a tie still exists, a comparison of records against Fordham University will be made;

iv. If a tie still exists, a comparison of records against common out-of-league opponents will be made;

v. If a tie still exists, a committee consisting of the athletics directors of each of the institutions not involved in the tie will make a final decision. The committee should consider various factors including, but not limited to, the following examples. Note: the examples are listed in no particular order:

a). strength of schedule
b). overall record
c). computer rankings
d). performance during second half of season

The committee will meet immediately following the conclusion of the final game of the season's final weekend. A majority vote of the members of the committee will be needed to determine the champion.

The winner of the tiebreaker in the Patriot League for football earns the League's automatic bid to the NCAA Division I Football Championship.

[carney2]

Patriot League Tie-Breaking Procedure For The NCAA Automatic Qualifier

Useless jabbering. There will be no need to invoke tie breaking procedures. Here's the way it will go:

Lafayette will lose to Colgate and either Holy Cross or Georgetown. ELIMINATED

Colgate will lose to Lehigh. ELIMINATED

Lehigh will lose to Lafayette. Do the arithmetic.

[Sader87]

Useless jabbering. There will be no need to invoke tie breaking procedures. Here's the way it will go:

Lafayette will lose to Colgate and either Holy Cross or Georgetown. ELIMINATED

Colgate will lose to Lehigh. ELIMINATED

Lehigh will lose to Lafayette. Do the arithmetic.

Ummm...what if HC beats Lehigh ???

[carney2]

Ummm...what if HC see beats Lehigh???

And what if pigs fly???

[crusader11]

"Hey, it could happen."....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCXiGeM9Lqw

Good thing God's on our side.

[PJ McJorma]

Lehigh 30 - Bucknell 21
Lafayette 17 - Holy Cross 7
Colgate 24 - G'twn 21 OT

[Pard4Life]

5-0 last week, 32-7 on the season.

Lehigh 28, Bison Burgers 10... no way. The longest active series winning streak in the NCAA continues.

Lafayette 21, Purple Teletubbies 14... Pards finally reverse the HC hex in an ugly game.

Colgate 30, Hoya Paxa Offense 17... will be a close game but Gate offense prevails in the end.

Ram Yams spend the weekend partying in SoHo.

[Pard4Life]

So... I wonder what attendance is going to be like this weekend? About 8,000 sounds right for Lafayette's Homecoming, a 1pm game.

[ngineer]

I would expect 10,000 or so at Goodman. Doubt the Bison will bring many along.

[LehighU11]

I would expect 10,000 or so at Goodman. Doubt the Bison will bring many along.

There have only been 3 games in the Andy Coen era that have drawn over 10,000, outside of Lehigh-Lafayette. They were consecutive games against Harvard, Bucknell, and Colgate in '06. 10k on Saturday would be quite an achievement. Perhaps the great mid-October weather in the forecast could lead to a larger crowd than Young Alumni Weekend against Fordham. Bucknell fans certainly won't help add to that figure much more than the Rams.

[RichH2]

BU hasn't travelled well in quite a while. Nice weather 9000 my guess.

[crusader11]

So... I wonder what attendance is going to be like this weekend? About 8,000 sounds right for Lafayette's Homecoming, a 1pm game.

I'll be there.

[Go...gate]

Hard to predict the turnout for Georgetown - Colgate. If a decent day, maybe 6,000?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Attendance Pick'em:

BUCKNELL @ LEHIGH: 8,192
HOLY CROSS @ LAFAYETTE : 7,163
GEORGETOWN @ COLGATE: 4,163

[Go...gate]

Can't have number speculation about anything involving Colgate without getting 13 in there somewhere! : )

[Pard4Life]

I'll be there.

Good! It's best to witness Lafayette's vengeance victory in person. I suspect you will be dropping by the small HC tailgate contingent on March Field.

[crusader11]

I suspect you will be dropping by the small HC tailgate contingent on March Field.

Usually a fair amount of purple at Lafayette. Easton is a very easy drive for HC alums in the tri-state area.

Time to raise the thumb (5 in a row).

[ColgateTD]

Hard to predict the turnout for Georgetown - Colgate. If a decent day, maybe 6,000?

20% chance possible showers in Hamilton on Sat. Leaves are down - color is gone. After Homecoming last weekend I doubt if we'll have more than 4-5,000 against a poor G'town team. Hope I'm wrong.

[Sader87]

28-11 on the year...5 HC picks amoungst those 11, I'm stubborn like that.

Only 3 contests this week, going to be hard to gain ground from here on in:

Lehigh 27 Bucknell 10 If Lehigh struggles here I think there are problems..the Bison have one of the worst offenses I've ever seen at this level.

HC 27 Lafayette 24 Continue to have faith in my Saders, due to win a close one and we seem to have the Pards #.

Colgate 31 GTown 13 Red Raiders are getting into gear offensively...Hoyas seem to be snake-bit this year.

[TheValleyRaider]

20% chance possible showers in Hamilton on Sat. Leaves are down - color is gone. After Homecoming last weekend I doubt if we'll have more than 4-5,000 against a poor G'town team. Hope I'm wrong.

4-5,000 seems like the better bet, especially given very few visitors come from the Hoyas. I'd say cracking 5K would be the best to hope for

[DFW HOYA]

4-5,000 seems like the better bet, especially given very few visitors come from the Hoyas. I'd say cracking 5K would be the best to hope for

It's seven hours from DC to Hamilton for a 1;00 kickoff, and there are relatively few alumni in upstate NY vis a vis other PL schools. Expecting more than a friends and family turnout may be optimistic.

The three prior Georgetown-Colgate games that did not involve a Homecoming weekend drew 3,144, 3,519, and 3,031.

[Go...gate]

20% chance possible showers in Hamilton on Sat. Leaves are down - color is gone. After Homecoming last weekend I doubt if we'll have more than 4-5,000 against a poor G'town team. Hope I'm wrong.

I'm glad I went to Hamilton a few weeks ago for the Sacred Heart game. Weather fine and leaves were just turning.

Seems like the color came and went very fast this year - was there an early snow?

[Pard4Life]

Color is just peaking here in PA.

I'm still waiting for that 2008 Gtown-Colgate game to be made-up, which caused Colgate to be illegitimately awarded the championship and auto-bid.

[Go...gate]

Maybe we can make like Ernie Banks on Saturday - "Let's play two!"

[TheValleyRaider]

I'm still waiting for that 2008 Gtown-Colgate game to be made-up, which caused Colgate to be illegitimately awarded the championship and auto-bid.

You're mad? I missed out on a Homecoming game that year. Haven't seen the 'Gate live in person since 2007

Homecoming Field Hockey is nice and all but...

[ColgateTD]

I'm glad I went to Hamilton a few weeks ago for the Sacred Heart game. Weather fine and leaves were just turning.

Seems like the color came and went very fast this year - was there an early snow?

No snow. It's been a warm Oct. in upstate. There is still a bit of color around. We missed out on October 6th weekend by not having a home game (or away game) on the schedule, right when the colors normally peak. Great foresight xrolleyesx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Last week I had one loss - dreaded Lafayette's inconsistent, impossible-to-predict ways.

Lehigh 20, Bucknell 10. Read why here (http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2012/10/game-breakdown-bucknell-at-lehigh.html).

Lafayette 24, Holy Cross 13. Doing everything I can to guarantee a Holy Cross victory... It makes no sense why the offensively-challenged Crusaders would win this game, so therefore it's clear that they will.

Colgate 24, Georgetown 21. Playing a hunch here that this will be a much bigger dogfight than anyone anticipates. But I don't think coach Kelly can win the close games this year.

[crusader11]

the offensively-challenged Crusaders

You must have missed last week's game against Colgate.

Steve Elder is the league's third best quarterback.

HC will score three touchdowns against Lafayette. Whether they win or not, not sure, but this team isn't offensively challenged anymore.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

HC will score three touchdowns against Lafayette. Whether they win or not, not sure, but this team isn't offensively challenged anymore.

Like I said, I'm doing my best to help - I think I've missed them on near every-game this season!

[RichH2]

11
No knock on Elder but I wouldn't put too much on stats vs Gate. A very porous D.

[carney2]

You must have missed last week's game against Colgate.

Steve Elder is the league's third best quarterback.

HC will score three touchdowns against Lafayette. Whether they win or not, not sure, but this team isn't offensively challenged anymore.

In agreement with 11 here. This game comes down to HC's best = Offense vs. LC's best = Defense

and

HC's worst = Defense vs. LC's worst = Offense.

The wild card is The Frankosaurus. The man can be a frustrating mindless boob on game day.

[RichH2]

Gee , with thosr descriptions, it could be a0-0 game.

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate 24, Colgate 21

Another year without playing G'town? P4L is going to have a fit if we win the League this year too xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Another year without playing G'town? P4L is going to have a fit if we win the League this year too xlolx

xlolx Typo! I meant Colgate 24, Georgetown 21.

[DFW HOYA]

Uh-oh. Georgetown may be down to its 4th string QB Saturday.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/howard-morgan-state-georgetown-colgate-previews/2012/10/19/81c9cd38-189e-11e2-a55c-39408fbe6a4b_story.html

[Engineer86]

Uh-oh. Georgetown may be down to its 4th string QB Saturday.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/howard-morgan-state-georgetown-colgate-previews/2012/10/19/81c9cd38-189e-11e2-a55c-39408fbe6a4b_story.html

Didn't the 2nd string QB come in last week when the 3rd string got hurt? Did I have that wrong or did something happen to change his status?

[DFW HOYA]

Didn't the 2nd string QB come in last week when the 3rd string got hurt? Did I have that wrong or did something happen to change his status?

Aaron Aiken is recovering from a high ankle sprain from the Princeton game. He played for one or two series and that was it. He is not in the two-deep for this week.

[Pard4Life]

Jeez.... I dont even know who our fourth string is...

[RichH2]

Hoyas are snakebit this yr at qb. Shame as they came into season with realistic high expectations for a very good yr.

[Pards Rule]

No snow. It's been a warm Oct. in upstate. There is still a bit of color around. We missed out on October 6th weekend by not having a home game (or away game) on the schedule, right when the colors normally peak. Great foresight xrolleyesx

Must have been the same scheduler who put a home game in Easton coinciding with student's fall break - yeah boyyyyy!!!

[thebin]

20% chance possible showers in Hamilton on Sat. Leaves are down - color is gone. After Homecoming last weekend I doubt if we'll have more than 4-5,000 against a poor G'town team. Hope I'm wrong.

I'm a little suprised how little respect Gtown has on this board for what they have done this year. Are they a great team? No, by no means. But a poor team? Only if you think the Patriot League is an atrocious league. One play away from beating Lehigh, Fordham, and Yale and with a victory at Princeton all done with a 3rd string qb? Is that what poor PL teams usually do? Do poor PL teams usually come within a single play at the end of the game of beating the best two teams in the league? This is the toughest 7 game stretch this program has played in the modern era and they were only soundly beaten by one (very good) team and they have done it all without the best Hoya QB in a decade.

The Hoyas have been quite unlucky this year and their finishing sucks. Good teams win close games- I get that. But poor teams don't routinely make the best teams in the league sweat it out to the last play of the game. Both the execution and the play-calling in the redzone have been terrible. And that's on the team for sure. But if this is a poor PL team, the rest of the league really must suck big time.

[Sader87]

I'm a little suprised how little respect Gtown has on this board for what they have done this year. Are they a great team? No, by no means. But a poor team? Only if you think the Patriot League is an atrocious league. One play away from beating Lehigh, Fordham, and Yale and with a victory at Princeton all done with a 3rd string qb? Is that what poor PL teams usually do? Do poor PL teams usually come within a single play at the end of the game of beating the best two teams in the league? This is the toughest 7 game stretch this program has played in the modern era and they were only soundly beaten by one (very good) team and they have done it all without the best Hoya QB in a decade.

The Hoyas have been quite unlucky this year and their finishing sucks. Good teams win close games- I get that. But poor teams don't routinely make the best teams in the league sweat it out to the last play of the game. Both the execution and the play-calling in the redzone have been terrible. And that's on the team for sure. But if this is a poor PL team, the rest of the league really must suck big time.

A bit hyberbolic no???

[thebin]

A bit hyberbolic no???

Saying a team is average and not great or poor? No, that's sort of the antithesis of hyperbole.

[Hawk98]

Lehigh, Lafayette, and Colgate.

3-0, 10-2 ... though I think it's going to get harder as we come down the stretch.

[Sader87]

Well I guess it's official....purple blinders be damned, we aren't very good, in point of fact, I guess we're pretty bad this year.

Lehigh and Colgate won big as expected...2-1 for the week (30-12 on the year) and it's going to be very hard to get excited (for me, as a HC fan) for the final month of Patriot League football.

[Hawk98]

Well I guess it's official....purple blinders be damned, we aren't very good, in point of fact, I guess we're pretty bad this year.

Lehigh and Colgate won big as expected...2-1 for the week (30-12 on the year) and it's going to be very hard to get excited (for me, as a HC fan) for the final month of Patriot League football.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how good your defense is, they will wear down if your offense can't score points and keep the ball. HC is good enough to keep games close for a while, but unless their defense puts up 14 points in doesn't seem like their offense can do enough to get the W.

[Bogus Megapardus]

So, I've been out at a business related function all day and I just got back in. Anything interesting happen in the PL today?

[Hawk98]

So, I've been out at a business related function all day and I just got back in. Anything interesting happen in the PL today?

Nope ... good 3 teams beat the not-as-good 3 teams.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Nope ... good 3 teams beat the not-as-good 3 teams.

Pretty much 98

LU vs BU - Lehigh played great for about 43 minutes. Should be in good shape health wise after their bye

LC vs HC - pards solidified themselves as league contenders. HC is really bad this year.

CU vs GU- the raider offense is a machine but their defense remains a huge question. The Hoyas were down to their 4th string qb.

From a phone

[Franks Tanks]

Attendance Pick'em:

BUCKNELL @ LEHIGH: 8,192
HOLY CROSS @ LAFAYETTE : 7,163
GEORGETOWN @ COLGATE: 4,163

Lafayette - 8,521
Lehigh - 7,188
Colgate - 1,832

[Sader87]

In all honesty, to be in a league that has a league game with an attendance of 1,832 is embarrasing. I know we are 1-6;1-2 in said league and in many ways "created" this league....but I continue to be shake my head and wonder how we "got" here.

[ColgateTD]

I apologize to you all for the lousy attendance figures emanating from Hamilton. I can only guess that it was because last week's game with HC was Homecoming..and the weather report was not good for upsate NY today. That said, it is embarrasing, as Sader mentioned. Perhaps everyone is waiting for the Leopards' visit to the north country.

[Bogus Megapardus]

In all honesty, to be in a league that has a league game with an attendance of 1,832 is embarrassing. I know we are 1-6;1-2 in said league and in many ways "created" this league....but I continue to be shake my head and wonder how we "got" here.


Most Colgate alums don't live near Hamilton, let's face it. Still, this is very weak for Colgate. Plus, Colgate was playing Georgetown. I'm pretty sure that most Georgetown alums don't know that the Hoyas have a football team. I guess that some Hoya fans tried to show up for Princeton on the road, but they do little to hide their disdain for the Patriot League. They presume that they belong in the Ivy. So you're not going to get very many Georgetown fans on the road.

Lafayette plays Georgetown in Easton next week. I'll be surprised if twenty people show up on the visitor's side. Maybe less.

[DFW HOYA]

Most Colgate alums don't live near Hamilton, let's face it. Still, this is very weak for Colgate. Plus, Colgate was playing Georgetown. I'm pretty sure that most Georgetown alums don't know that the Hoyas have a football team. I guess that some Hoya fans tried to show up for Princeton on the road, but they do little to hide their disdain for the Patriot League. They presume that they belong in the Ivy. So you're not going to get very many Georgetown fans on the road. Lafayette plays Georgetown in Easton next week. I'll be surprised if twenty people show up on the visitor's side. Maybe less.

Distance from Washington DC to Hamilton, NY? 365 miles (7 hours)
Time needed to leave Georgetown to make it to Hamilton by game time? 6:00 am
Number of Georgetown alumni living in Hamilton, per the alumni directory? 1
Number of all Georgetown undergraduate alumni living in Central New York, incl. Syracuse and Utica? 278
Number of all Georgetown fans counted at game (a claim from the Colgate board): 146
Number of Colgate fans that showed up? 1,686

In other news, B. Megapardus will be forming a human barricade to prevent Verizon FiOs trucks from setting up camp at Fisher Field this week. When asked for comment, Verizon officials noted that they don't even cover the league anymore.

[Pard4Life]

Lafayette - 8,521
Lehigh - 7,188
Colgate - 1,832

xlolx

Where are the 10,000 or 9,000 fans that some of you were projecting on young alumni day on a perfect fall day with the foliage ablaze on the breast of South Mountain? An undefeated team no less? Easton is the place to be these days!

[Bogus Megapardus]

B. Megapardus will be forming a human barricade to prevent Verizon FiOS trucks from setting up camp at Fisher Field this week.


It will not be entirely human. I have recruited other species as well.

And I wont discriminate. Anyone - not just FiOS - seeking to transmit pro-Hoya rhetoric from Fisher Field will be detained and quarantined at an inhospitable public waste facility in nearby Phillipsburg, New Jersey for the duration for the game, where specially-bred rodents of unusual size will maintain order and exacting discipline.

[ngineer]

xlolx

Where are the 10,000 or 9,000 fans that some of you were projecting on young alumni day on a perfect fall day with the foliage ablaze on the breast of South Mountain? An undefeated team no less? Easton is the place to be these days!

I agree the numbers were disappointing, but part of that was not much a turnout by the Bison. I estimated about 200 or behind the Bucknell bench, with most in the east stands Lehigh people preferring to sit in the sun. Second, was there was a big road race in Bethlehem that pulled some, but regardless, the number should have been around 9,000. Actually a decent showing in the student section. I feel they shouldn't televise locally. I know a bunch of alums who never came into the game and just tailgated the whole afternoon in the parking lots with the game on the tube. Definitely a culture shift that has been in the works for several years. I will say this, the stands made a lot of noise when needed in the third quarter when Bucknell pulled close and the Lehigh D made a huge 3 and out stop.

BTW, be sure to tell your fellow pard's to get their season tickets and contributions in next year in order to be guaranteed tickets to #149, as I learned that LC 'shorted' LU about 600 tickets more than alloted for #146. A lot of alums po'd about not being able to get tix for this year's game. Word at the tailgates was that there will be payback next year in terms of allotment. Arrangements have been made to have big tailgate at Stabler Arena and watch game on big screens in the arena...and attendance will count toward the "50 Game Club". My class has already made arrangements to have big screen tv set up at a doctor's office parking lot about 3 blocks from Fisher in order for a lot of alums to see the game.

[ngineer]

Actually, I think your thought is offensive. Not sure why people who do not meet the 'Barbie Doll' image are to be ridiculed for cheering for their school.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Actually, I think your thought is offensive. Not sure why people who do not meet the 'Barbie Doll' image are to be ridiculed for cheering for their school.

I agree and I have deleted the post.

[Pards Rule]

Well I guess it's official....purple blinders be damned, we aren't very good, in point of fact, I guess we're pretty bad this year.

Lehigh and Colgate won big as expected...2-1 for the week (30-12 on the year) and it's going to be very hard to get excited (for me, as a HC fan) for the final month of Patriot League football.

You can root for the Pards Sader...

[Engineer86]

I agree the numbers were disappointing, but part of that was not much a turnout by the Bison. I estimated about 200 or behind the Bucknell bench, with most in the east stands Lehigh people preferring to sit in the sun. Second, was there was a big road race in Bethlehem that pulled some, but regardless, the number should have been around 9,000. Actually a decent showing in the student section. I feel they shouldn't televise locally. I know a bunch of alums who never came into the game and just tailgated the whole afternoon in the parking lots with the game on the tube. Definitely a culture shift that has been in the works for several years. I will say this, the stands made a lot of noise when needed in the third quarter when Bucknell pulled close and the Lehigh D made a huge 3 and out stop.

BTW, be sure to tell your fellow pard's to get their season tickets and contributions in next year in order to be guaranteed tickets to #149, as I learned that LC 'shorted' LU about 600 tickets more than alloted for #146. A lot of alums po'd about not being able to get tix for this year's game. Word at the tailgates was that there will be payback next year in terms of allotment. Arrangements have been made to have big tailgate at Stabler Arena and watch game on big screens in the arena...and attendance will count toward the "50 Game Club". My class has already made arrangements to have big screen tv set up at a doctor's office parking lot about 3 blocks from Fisher in order for a lot of alums to see the game.

This must be the reason LU sent there request to season ticket holders looking for any possible unused tickets. Never got that request before. Will you be providing more information on the location of that doctors office, I know a handful of people that don't have tickets. We expect the can as usual find a Lafayette student who won't go to the game, but it would be good to have a backup plan.

[Doc QB]

xlolx

Where are the 10,000 or 9,000 fans that some of you were projecting on young alumni day on a perfect fall day with the foliage ablaze on the breast of South Mountain? An undefeated team no less? Easton is the place to be these days!

i was at game, and though dont want to be cast another LU 'homer,' which I guess I am anyway, the home side empty seats could have been easily filled by the hill and visitor side fans....that's easily 8000 in a symmetric 16,000 seat venue. Not sure about that number at all. But, it wasnt 12,000 either, and should have been on such a great day.

[Engineer86]

i was at game, and though dont want to be cast another LU 'homer,' which I guess I am anyway, the home side empty seats could have been easily filled by the hill and visitor side fans....that's easily 8000 in a symmetric 16,000 seat venue. Not sure about that number at all. But, it wasnt 12,000 either, and should have been on such a great day.

I will back you up on this, since I thought the same thing. Home side was pretty full and there were a lot of people standing. The east side was light, and when I walked through looking for a Bucknell parent, I noticed a lot of LU clothing, as someone else posted. I was surprised at the posted number when i saw it.

[carney2]

I learned that LC 'shorted' LU about 600 tickets more than alloted for #146. A lot of alums po'd about not being able to get tix for this year's game. Word at the tailgates was that there will be payback next year in terms of allotment.

Here we go again. Look at the schedule, ngineer, it says Lehigh @ Lafayette and not the other way around. Not your game. Not your tickets. Still, the Squawks are allotted 5,000 tickets to a sold out game in a stadium with a seating capacity of 13,142. That means that the visitors get 38.1% of the tickets. Name a game of this sort where this happens. You people are treated very well for this game - very well, indeed. The fact that you have a larger school with a team that is on a two year roll may affect the demand but does not affect the allotment. Wake up and smell the coffee.

[Pard4Life]

This must be the reason LU sent there request to season ticket holders looking for any possible unused tickets. Never got that request before. Will you be providing more information on the location of that doctors office, I know a handful of people that don't have tickets. We expect the can as usual find a Lafayette student who won't go to the game, but it would be good to have a backup plan.

This does not make any sense. The game is not yet a sellout. Lafayette still has tickets available and even advertised at yesterday's game. I guess we don't like you guys much since you shafted us last year in the ticket department I reckon'.

[carney2]

This does not make any sense. The game is not yet a sellout. Lafayette still has tickets available and even advertised at yesterday's game. I guess we don't like you guys much since you shafted us last year in the ticket department I reckon'.

We do get side-tracked in these threads, don't we? I seriously doubt if there is any shafting going on here - either way. I believe that the two athletic departments are on their best behavior, despite their fans. They recognize the fact that "we'll be going to your place next year" and act accordingly. Both sides are treated well when they are the visitors. If you want more tickets you're gonna have to go to a bigger stadium which, unfortunately, just might happen in two years.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

We do get side-tracked in these threads, don't we? I seriously doubt if there is any shafting going on here - either way. I believe that the two athletic departments are on their best behavior, despite their fans. They recognize the fact that "we'll be going to your place next year" and act accordingly. Both sides are treated well when they are the visitors. If you want more tickets you're gonna have to go to a bigger stadium which, unfortunately, just might happen in two years.

Which seems like it will be happening.

[Pard4Life]

Which seems like it will be happening.

Are you sure? I've heard zilcho since May. Sources? Details? I'm rioting if it's true. I don't care that you think we are complaining of being robbed of a home game. I'd be just as unhappy not making the annual trip to Lehigh in a party-crazy tailgate atmosphere.

[RichH2]

150 issues were overblown IMO. I was wrong. Of late, there does seem to be some validity to the possibility of a move. We'll see.
Last month of season will be very interesting. 3 way race. Each team has its assets and holes. 2 up/down teams and an offensive juggernaut.

[Engineer86]

This does not make any sense. The game is not yet a sellout. Lafayette still has tickets available and even advertised at yesterday's game. I guess we don't like you guys much since you shafted us last year in the ticket department I reckon'.

I thought I heard it was a sellout. I was actually on Lafayette site yesterday thinking of looking for tickets there, but recalled that. Also figured I don't need the tickets others do, so they can try to get them on the Lafayette site.

I really hope they do not move the 150 game. Selfishly, I do not want to drive farther than Easton, and I also think it would be a huge issue dealing with the students. Many topics on students losing interest, lets not take this game away from them too.

[DFW HOYA]

Here we go again. Look at the schedule, ngineer, it says Lehigh @ Lafayette and not the other way around. Not your game. Not your tickets. Still, the Squawks are allotted 5,000 tickets to a sold out game in a stadium with a seating capacity of 13,142. That means that the visitors get 38.1% of the tickets. Name a game of this sort where this happens.

I think this was discussed before, but is this 5K allotment a gentlemen's agreement or just a way to ensure sellouts? What would prevent LC from pre-selling out #150 on its own and simply giving Lehigh 500 tickets?

[Engineer86]

I think this was discussed before, but is this 5K allotment a gentlemen's agreement or just a way to ensure sellouts? What would prevent LC from pre-selling out #150 on its own and simply giving Lehigh 500 tickets?

Don't give them any ideas!

[crusader11]

It's not going to happen because Holy Cross is god-awful this year, but it sure would be nice to play spoiler and give Lehigh their first loss of the season on 11/3.

What happens if there is a three way tie between Colgate, Lafayette, and Lehigh? Does Lafayette get the bid since they haven't been to the playoffs since 2006?

It would be pretty sweet if L vs. L was for the PLC.

[Hawk98]

It's not going to happen because Holy Cross is god-awful this year, but it sure would be nice to play spoiler and give Lehigh their first loss of the season on 11/3.

What happens if there is a three way tie between Colgate, Lafayette, and Lehigh? Does Lafayette get the bid since they haven't been to the playoffs since 2006?

It would be pretty sweet if L vs. L was for the PLC.

If a tie exists, the higher seed will go to the team that won the most head-to-head League contest(s) played against the other team(s) involved in the tie.

ii. If a tie still exists, a comparison of League records will be made between the tied institutions starting at the highest seed and continuing through the lowest seed, if necessary. (excluding Fordham University)

iii. If a tie still exists, a comparison of records against Fordham University will be made;

iv. If a tie still exists, a comparison of records against common out-of-league opponents will be made;

v. If a tie still exists, a committee consisting of the athletics directors of each of the institutions not involved in the tie will make a final decision. The committee should consider various factors including, but not limited to, the following examples. Note: the examples are listed in no particular order:

a). strength of schedule
b). overall record
c). computer rankings
d). performance during second half of season

[TheValleyRaider]

It would be pretty sweet if L vs. L was for the PLC.

*thinking about it....thinking about it*...Nah

[Franks Tanks]

Here we go again. Look at the schedule, ngineer, it says Lehigh @ Lafayette and not the other way around. Not your game. Not your tickets. Still, the Squawks are allotted 5,000 tickets to a sold out game in a stadium with a seating capacity of 13,142. That means that the visitors get 38.1% of the tickets. Name a game of this sort where this happens. You people are treated very well for this game - very well, indeed. The fact that you have a larger school with a team that is on a two year roll may affect the demand but does not affect the allotment. Wake up and smell the coffee.



This

Also again why would Lehigh under report attendance? It is illogical.

Lastly I think 150 away from Easton is unlikely. Our idiot BOT may be somewhat into the idea, but many donors really hate the idea and will be vocal in opposition. We will also have a new president soon, who presumable will not piss off big donors over this.

[Franks Tanks]

Also I understand tickets for the game are available. If don't have them you didn't try very hard to obtain them. Pull out your phone book and ring the Lafayette ticket office. You may just be able to purchase them!

[RichH2]

Ok, guys a new week has begun. Why dont we put this thread to bed and wander over to Carney's new thread.
Quite sure the bickering will follow.

[carney2]

I think this was discussed before, but is this 5K allotment a gentlemen's agreement or just a way to ensure sellouts? What would prevent LC from pre-selling out #150 on its own and simply giving Lehigh 500 tickets?

Yes, we have had this discussion before and I give you the same answer now that I gave you then:

It won't happen because "we" will be at "your" place next year and expect the same good treatment in return. It IS that simple.

[ngineer]

This must be the reason LU sent there request to season ticket holders looking for any possible unused tickets. Never got that request before. Will you be providing more information on the location of that doctors office, I know a handful of people that don't have tickets. We expect the can as usual find a Lafayette student who won't go to the game, but it would be good to have a backup plan.


Check your PM--usually some tickets floating around for purchase.

[ngineer]

Here we go again. Look at the schedule, ngineer, it says Lehigh @ Lafayette and not the other way around. Not your game. Not your tickets. Still, the Squawks are allotted 5,000 tickets to a sold out game in a stadium with a seating capacity of 13,142. That means that the visitors get 38.1% of the tickets. Name a game of this sort where this happens. You people are treated very well for this game - very well, indeed. The fact that you have a larger school with a team that is on a two year roll may affect the demand but does not affect the allotment. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Not so. We were allotted 600 more tickets two years ago. Size of schools hasn't changed and we were undefeated that year, too.

[ngineer]

Which seems like it will be happening.

Pure speculation at this point, and mostly wishful thinking by some. I am against it, and I would think Lafayette would be too...unless there is some kind of $$$ remuneration guarantee.

[ngineer]

I think this was discussed before, but is this 5K allotment a gentlemen's agreement or just a way to ensure sellouts? What would prevent LC from pre-selling out #150 on its own and simply giving Lehigh 500 tickets?

Nothing....but the ramifications would be unbelieveable. (;-)