Patriot League Pick 'em - Week 7

[carney2]

Apologies for the lateness of the hour. I had (selective) internet interruptus.

Week 7, October 13, 2012:

LAFAYETTE @ Yale
LEHIGH @ GEORGETOWN
HOLY CROSS @ COLGATE
BUCKNELL @ Harvard
FORDHAM @ Cincinnati


The Patriot League is 15-13 Year-to-Date vs. OOC:

1-1 in Week 6:
Vs. Big South 1-1
vs. CAA 1-3
vs. D-2 1-0
vs. Ivy 6-6
vs. MVC 0-1
vs. NEC 4-2
vs. PFL 2-0


STANDINGS:
(Patriot League W-L is listed first, followed by overall W-L)
(These are not the “official” standings because Fordham is included.)

Holy Cross 1-0, 1-4
Lafayette 1-0, 3-2
Lehigh 1-0, 6-0
Fordham* 1-0, 4-2
Colgate 0-0, 2-3
Georgetown 0-1, 3-3
Bucknell 0-2, 1-4

*Ineligible for League championship and auto-bid.

[Engineer86]

Fordham is 1-1 in league

Yale
Lehigh
Colgate
Harvard
Cincinnati

[carney2]

LAFAYETTE @ Yale - Two teams that have each played exactly one game so far this year. In a battle of Who Can Screw The Pooch The Worst, I'll take the home team to be slightly less incompetent.

LEHIGH @ GEORGETOWN - Blowout, Part I

HOLY CROSS @ COLGATE - The Cross continues to look like a team going absolutely nowhere.

BUCKNELL @ Harvard - Blowout, Part II

FORDHAM @ Cincinnati - Blowout, Part III

[RichH2]

Ok, I know I shouldn't but I cant help it
Pards over Yale

LU over GU
Gate ovet Cross
Harvard over BU
And last my I hope they're making buckets of $$
Cincy ovet FU

[Hawk98]

LAFAYETTE @ Yale
LEHIGH @ GEORGETOWN
HOLY CROSS @ COLGATE
BUCKNELL @ Harvard
FORDHAM @ Cincinnati

3-1 last week, 3-1 overall

[Pard4Life]

Is it possible this is the first week in awhile where all games are unwatchable?

Lafayette-Yale should be an entertaining game in futility.

Lafayette will beat Yale.

[Pard4Life]

It's early, but not much to ponder this week: 3-1 last week, 27-7 overall... missed on BU.

Lafayette 38, Yale 31... if we can't score on Yale, God help us. Yale can't play defense and ZZ has an arm. Will Tavani craft a coherent game plan? Pard D should really shut them down, but not based on how things are lately.

Lehigh 28, Georgetown 17... this should be the score, but it will likely be closer as Lehigh finds a way to make it exciting.

Colgate 45, Holy Cross 21... ugly.

Harvard 58, Bucknell 3... brutal.

Cinncinatti 41, Fordham 3... heinous.

[Sader87]

Rivalry week....Greater Allentown be damned.... the most storied, meaningful PL football game takes place this Saturday as the Crusaders travel to Hamilton, NY to take on Colgate in the 75th meeting between these two fine institutions. Picks to come.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Week 7, October 13, 2012:

LAFAYETTE @ Yale
BUCKNELL @ Harvard

vs. Ivy 6-6

So there it is. Unless you think coach Susan has miraculously found a way to either a) slow down the most potent offense in FCS over the last three weeks, or b) found a way to score at will to outlast the most potent offense in FCS over the last three weeks, the only hope for a .500 - yes, .500! - record against the Ivies comes from New Haven, Connecticut, where a team who lost to Robert Morris faces off against a team that lost to Cornell by 39 points.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Rivalry week....Greater Allentown be damned.... the most storied, meaningful PL football game takes place this Saturday as the Crusaders travel to Hamilton, NY to take on Colgate in the 75th meeting between these two fine institutions. Picks to come.

No idea that this was the 75th! Congratulations!

[ngineer]

If the Leotards don't beat the Eli, then "Eli's Coming" to College Hill..."..better hide yo' heart.." 'cause the season will be swirling in full counter-clockwise motion. I have to believe Frankosaurus finds a way to motivate the spots off the players behinds and pulls out a win, 31-24.

Lehigh should win by at least two scores. Will they is anyone's guess. Does Lehigh finally get a complete game in the books? No, but another win, 30-20.

Holy Cross creeps into Hamilton with a pulse after last week's 'scintillating' win over the Bison Chips. Raiders with a week off maybe a bit rusty to start, but after a close first half, the offensive pops the clutch and cruises to victory, 38-17.

Susan lookin' for a bruisin'. This could be real ugly when one considers the Crimson's steamrolling of the Crusaders. Bison's usually stout D, hangs for awhile but gets worn out from being on the field 45 minutes. Harvard, 45-6.

Fordham follows the money and gives the Bearcats a scare for a half. After Cincy gets over looking past the Rams, they right the ship and scamper to a 35-21 win.

[Sader87]

I really don't get all the Gate love....aside from hanging around with Stony Brook (who turned the ball over repeatedly in that game....and may have have overlooked the Red Raiders having played them in between taking on Syracuse and Army) what have they really done this season?

[crusader11]

I really don't get all the Gate love....aside from hanging around with Stony Brook (who turned the ball over repeatedly in that game....and may have have overlooked the Red Raiders having played them in between taking on Syracuse and Army) what have they really done this season?

Their offense is pretty solid. McCarney and McCord (did I get the capitalization of the C's right?) are a great tandem.

But, I also think that Holy Cross' defense is pretty solid. Also helps that Steve Elder has a game under his belt, and a full week of practice and film (with no classes) to prepare for Colgate.

My head tells me Colgate 28 - Holy Cross 17, my heart is telling me Holy Cross 21 - Colgate 20.

[ngineer]

I really don't get all the Gate love....aside from hanging around with Stony Brook (who turned the ball over repeatedly in that game....and may have have overlooked the Red Raiders having played them in between taking on Syracuse and Army) what have they really done this season?

They've improved from the first couple weeks. Not saying they're 'word beaters' but Biddle seems to have the offense clicking. Defense still a problem. Meanwhile, the Cross has had a few 'problems'. Game is also in Hamilton. Not an easy place to play. May Gilmore gets his squad re-focused, but gotta go with home team on this one.

[van]

LAFAYETTE over Yale, I guess
LEHIGH big over GEORGETOWN
GATE improving and at home, Cross not so much
Harvard is really good and Bucky is not
Cincinnati, but expect Rams to get some respect

[carney2]

I really don't get all the Gate love....

I think it's more a loss of confidence in the Crossers than 'gate love.

[carney2]

How low can you go?! My pick for Game of the Week is a tie:

LAFAYETTE @ Yale - Which of these moribund crews can stumble into the victory circle?

HOLY CROSS @ COLGATE - IF, and only IF, the purple gang can make a game of it.

This is the worst choice of the year so far.

[jimbo65]

Lafayette over Yale

Lehigh over Gtown

Colgate ove HC

Harvard over Bucknell

Cinn over Fordham Ave imperator morituri te salutem

[Pard4Life]

Our approach to the PL favorite is like the 2012 Republican primary... first it was HC, then Gtown, then Lafayette, now Colgate. But in the end, it's going to be Lehigh.

[Go Green]

Ave imperator morituri te salutem

Been forever since I took Latin, but dosen't that mean "I who am about to die salute you?" Shouldn't it be salutant or salutamus?

Or was that what you meant to say in the first place? :)

[jimbo65]

Been forever since I took Latin, but dosen't that mean "I who am about to die salute you?" Shouldn't it be salutant or salutamus?

Or was that what you meant to say in the first place? :)

Forever for me as well. My intent was to cite the cry of the gladiators prior to engaging in combat, " Hail Emperor, we who are about to die salute you".

[Fordhamanhattan]

As a supporter of the Maroon, I am heading out to Cincinnati with a side trip to Keenland to see the Rams shock the college football world, 45-44. I will also be betting the long shots at Keenland. I hope I am not the first Brooklynite to go to Cincinnati since Sandy Koufax.
The Leopards over the Eli.
Georgetown beats an overrated Erstwhile Engineer squad.
Colgate pastes the best Worcestor has to offer.
The Crimson all over Bill Cody's favorite mammals.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As a supporter of the Maroon, I am heading out to Cincinnati with a side trip to Keenland to see the Rams shock the college football world, 45-44. I will also be betting the long shots at Keenland. I hope I am not the first Brooklynite to go to Cincinnati since Sandy Koufax.
The Leopards over the Eli.
Georgetown beats an overrated Erstwhile Engineer squad.
Colgate pastes the best Worcestor has to offer.
The Crimson all over Bill Cody's favorite mammals.

"You must spread reputation around before giving it to Fordhamanhattan again."

I admire your guts. And good luck to your Rams. Everyone here, I'm sure, is pulling for you.

It will be on at 7:00PM on ESPN3, incidentally, for those who get that!

[Ivytalk]

LAFAYETTE @ Yale - Two teams that have each played exactly one game so far this year. In a battle of Who Can Screw The Pooch The Worst, I'll take the home team to be slightly less incompetent.

LEHIGH @ GEORGETOWN - Blowout, Part I

HOLY CROSS @ COLGATE - The Cross continues to look like a team going absolutely nowhere.

BUCKNELL @ Harvard - Blowout, Part II

FORDHAM @ Cincinnati - Blowout, Part III

OMG! LOL! ROFLMAO! carney2 and I agree AGAIN!!! (Except for Lafayette-Yale, where I pick the Pards.)

[Pard4Life]

OMG! LOL! ROFLMAO! carney2 and I agree AGAIN!!! (Except for Lafayette-Yale, where I pick the Pards.)

I don't know why carney is so down on the Yale game. I am as convinced we will beat Yale as I was for Princeton beating Lafayette.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Cincinnati 48 Fordham 20 - The Rams won't get completely blown out.

Harvard 41 Bucknell 17 - The Crimson are way too strong.

Yale 20 Lafayette 17 - I honestly don't have a clue. The Eli usually play pretty well at home if nothing else.

Colgate 38 Holy Cross 21 - The Raiders are too potent for a shaky Crusaders D.

Lehigh 34 Georgetown 17 - As long as Lehigh avoids turnovers they should win by two plus scores. Georgetown lived off of turnovers last year. Since joining the PL, the closest the Hoyas have come to beating Lehigh is 17 points in 2010.

[TheValleyRaider]

Lafayette at Yale Lafayette Why do I do this to myself? I should know better than to trust Lafayette at all, but here I am, picking the Leopards again. Yale certainly doesn't scare me, and maybe Lafayette will grind out yards as Tavani's offense is wont to do. Might as well pick the Pards to defend Patriot League honor here this weekend (and for the 2012 season as a whole)

Lehigh at Georgetown Lehigh The rematch of last year's title game sees the teams in slightly different places. Lehigh is still winning, and still appears to be in the driver's seat for a league title, but far more vulnerable than last year. Georgetown still has wins on their ledger, but also appears far more vulnerable than previously. What does this mean for Saturday? Well, Lehigh was better last year, and may still be better this year. Going on the road doesn't help, but I think Lehigh keeps ahead of the Hoyas throughout the day again

Holy Cross at Colgate Colgate Much as I want to believe the Colgate renaissance, I don't know how convinced I am about it. The defense still worries me, though we can move the ball and put points on the board. As for Holy Cross, they have been losing to some good teams, but losses have a way of demoralizing a team. Injuries aren't helping either. Basically, this pick comes down to I hate the fact we've lost 3 straight and 4 of 5 to that team. We play the Crusaders close at home, and I expect to make this one count again. Sanctae Crucis delenda est

Bucknell at Harvard Harvard And this is why Lafayette carries the PL banner against the Ivies. Bucknell's defense looks formidible, but Harvard appears to be on another level offensively (and overall). Insert comment here about seeing Ivy champion in the postseason. Good luck Bison, but unless they can capitalize on a few mistakes, the Crimson are unlikely to let this one stay close in Cambridge

Fordham at Cincinnati Cincinnati Speaking of not-close games involving visiting PL teams, here come the Rams. Fordham heads to the banks of the Ohio to face an unbeaten Big East foe. While they may have preferred it to be Rutgers, Cincy is a nice town and I hope the Rams and their fans enjoy the stay. Aside from the football game, that is. Cincinnati is one of the real contenders in the conference, and jokes about the Big East aside (could be worse, they could be the Big 10), they're a solid conference with additional scholarships. Just so long as the check doesn't bounce....

[Engineer86]

Our approach to the PL favorite is like the 2012 Republican primary... first it was HC, then Gtown, then Lafayette, now Colgate. But in the end, it's going to be Lehigh.

Yep just like we always new it would be xlolx

[Ivytalk]

Holy Cross 41 Bucknell 17 - The Crimson are way too strong.

Colgate 38 Holy Cross 21 - The Raiders are too potent for a shaky Crusaders D.

Split squad game for the 'Saders?

[Ivytalk]

My only question about Harvard-Bucknell is how small the crowd will be. I'm guessing 5500.xsmhx

[crusader11]

Split squad game for the 'Saders?

The Patriot League needed to do something in order to give Colgate a shot this weekend.

[TheValleyRaider]

The Patriot League needed to do something in order to give Colgate a shot this weekend.

Bold talk from a 1-4 team :p

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Split squad game for the 'Saders?

good catch...

[PAllen]

LAFAYETTE @ Yale
LEHIGH @ GEORGETOWN
HOLY CROSS @ COLGATE
BUCKNELL @ Harvard
FORDHAM @ Cincinnati

[ColgateTD]

Lafayette - should be a cakewalk..
Lehigh - big beatdown of the Hoyas..
Harvard - Crimson are rolling..
Cincinnati - good luck to the Rams..
Colgate - bye week + Yale win rejuvinates Biddle's Bunch..

[Bogus Megapardus]

Sportsbook:

Lafayette (-7) at Yale

Brown (-6) at Princeton

Monmouth (pk) at Cornell

Lehigh (-14) at Georgetown

Penn (-17) vs Columbia

Colgate (-10) vs Holy Cross

Dartmouth (-17) vs Sacred Heart

Harvard (-27) vs Bucknell

* * * * * * * *

New Hampshire (-7) vs Richmond

James Madison (-10) vs W&M

Old Dominion (-10) vs Villanova

Towson (-6) vs Maine

[van]

I don't know why carney is so down on the Yale game. I am as convinced we will beat Yale as I was for Princeton beating Lafayette.

dumb question, he is Carney!

[DFW HOYA]

So why isn't the PL office promoting the significance of the 75th meeting between HC and Colgate?

(Because it's not Lehigh and Lafayette.)

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

So why isn't the PL office promoting the significance of the 75th meeting between HC and Colgate?

(Because it's not Lehigh and Lafayette.)

I don't remember the PL promoting Lehigh and Bucknell's 75th meeting....

[DFW HOYA]

There are rivalries worth promoting other than the big game for Eastern Pennsylvania. Why not HC and Colgate?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

There are rivalries worth promoting other than the big game for Eastern Pennsylvania. Why not HC and Colgate?

And how are they suppose to promote this? What exactly are they suppose to do? Isn't it up to Colgate and HC's local media to get people interested in the game?

[ngineer]

"You must spread reputation around before giving it to Fordhamanhattan again."

I admire your guts. And good luck to your Rams. Everyone here, I'm sure, is pulling for you.

It will be on at 7:00PM on ESPN3, incidentally, for those who get that!

Great! Thanks for the infor on ESPN3. And ditto for the Rams. Let 'er rip and bring home some "bearcat' fur!

[ngineer]

And how are they suppose to promote this? What exactly are they suppose to do? Isn't it up to Colgate and HC's local media to get people interested in the game?

Beat me to it. How many fans in the stands in Hamilton for this historic occasion...6-7,000? 75the meeting is nice, but there are alot of rivalries that are in the sphere and higher. It's something the schools themselves need to promote if they think it's worth promoting.

[Pards Rule]

Cincinnati 48 Fordham 20 - The Rams won't get completely blown out.

Harvard 41 Bucknell 17 - The Crimson are way too strong.

Yale 20 Lafayette 17 - I honestly don't have a clue. The Eli usually play pretty well at home if nothing else.

Colgate 38 Holy Cross 21 - The Raiders are too potent for a shaky Crusaders D.

Lehigh 34 Georgetown 17 - As long as Lehigh avoids turnovers they should win by two plus scores. Georgetown lived off of turnovers last year. Since joining the PL, the closest the Hoyas have come to beating Lehigh is 17 points in 2010.

Owl, the last Pard game at the Yale Bowl was in 2009 and I was there and the Elis certainly didnt play well at home. I just remember being amazed but I think we actually drew more fans than the Elis that game!!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Whose responsibility is it to push the Holy Cross/Colgate Rivalry - Holy Cross, Colgate, or the league office?

To say that Colgate is underselling this achievement is an understatement. It's Thursday before Gameday, and the lead story on the Raiders' website is... "This Week in Raider Nation", dated October 2nd.

http://www.gocolgateraiders.com/news/2012/10/2/FH_1002122312.aspx

[Bill]

LFN

While I'm a Lehigh guy, my entire family - 2 generations of it - went to Colgate (yes, I'm the black sheep:)

Anyhow, I believe the lack of celebrating is due to Colgate's history as a "big time" program - at least in the older alumni's eyes. I know several alumns who like the academic prestige of the PL, yet feel that Lehigh, Lafayette, etc. are somehow beneath them. The have memories of competing with the Syracuse's of the world, and are really excited about full scholarships and the chance to compete up again, against the likes of Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Duke, etc.

For what it's worth.....

[Franks Tanks]

LFN

While I'm a Lehigh guy, my entire family - 2 generations of it - went to Colgate (yes, I'm the black sheep:)

Anyhow, I believe the lack of celebrating is due to Colgate's history as a "big time" program - at least in the older alumni's eyes. I know several alumns who like the academic prestige of the PL, yet feel that Lehigh, Lafayette, etc. are somehow beneath them. The have memories of competing with the Syracuse's of the world, and are really excited about full scholarships and the chance to compete up again, against the likes of Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Duke, etc.

For what it's worth.....

I agree that some of the Colgate old guard still has that mentality. The reality however is that Colgate has only played Syracuse 4 times in the last 50 years, and hasn't beaten them since 1950. If one was at games when the Colgate-Syracuse rivalry was competitive they are really old.

[RichH2]

The dreams of past glory resurface fairly regularly on Gate and Cross boards. I guess by older alums. Being now tied to Div II schools like Lehigh et al is galling to them understandably. Heck, I would have that feeling of loss. Gate-Cross 75th game is a great feat for which I congratulate them.
Nothing can replace what they have lost but they can root for where they are and where PL is going. Not likely either has 40-50 million to compete in FBS.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Seeing the nostalgia for the "big time", odd that many of the Gate's "glory years" in the 1930s intersect with games with Lafayette as well as Holy Cross.

And it's a real shame, too, that Colgate didn't jump on this 75th anniversary game more. Hell, Andy Kerr coached against the Crusaders in the some of the very early meetings. The first game in Hamilton was a 6-6 tie. There's plenty there, I'm sure, if folks had cared to look.

[carney2]

Owl, the last Pard game at the Yale Bowl was in 2009 and I was there and the Elis certainly didnt play well at home. I just remember being amazed but I think we actually drew more fans than the Elis that game!!

It appears that, with the exception of Harvard, Yale can expect 10,000-12,000 for an Ivy game and maybe 5,000-6,000 for games involving non-Ivy opponents. It will be lonely in the Yale Bowl this weekend. On the other hand, you can probably sit just about anywhere you want.

[DFW HOYA]

Whose responsibility is it to push the Holy Cross/Colgate Rivalry - Holy Cross, Colgate, or the league office?


It's the responsibility of the schools to maintain a rivalry and for the league to recognize it appropriately. Even the most ardent Leopard or Engineer fan out there must admit that the PL seems to recognize only one football rivalry game in the conference, and Leh/Laf would not be diminished if Colgate-HC were viewed as games worthy of recognition: for example, the HC-Colgate series is longer than such rivalries as VMI-Citadel, Delaware-Villanova, or even Grambling-Southern.

[carney2]

It's the responsibility of the schools to maintain a rivalry and for the league to recognize it appropriately. Even the most ardent Leopard or Engineer fan out there must admit that the PL seems to recognize only one football rivalry game in the conference, and Leh/Laf would not be diminished if Colgate-HC were viewed as games worthy of recognition: for example, the HC-Colgate series is longer than such rivalries as VMI-Citadel, Delaware-Villanova, or even Grambling-Southern.

I think you have, and continue to, overplay this. The League does very little to promote anything. They could, and should, however, schedule a rivalry weekend on the final Saturday of the season. With 7 football playing members someone would be left out or rotated out every year, but they seem to give this no thought at all.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think you have, and continue to, overplay this. The League does very little to promote anything. They could, and should, however, schedule a rivalry weekend on the final Saturday of the season. With 7 football playing members someone would be left out or rotated out every year, but they seem to give this no thought at all.

Imagine, for a second, the dream scenario: Richmond, William & Mary, and Villanova in the Patriot League. (Remember, I didn't say realisitic: I said dream scenario.)

Lehigh/Lafayette
Richmond/William & Mary
Georgetown/Fordham
Holy Cross/Colgate
Bucknell/Villanova

That's a pretty good "Rivalry Weekend" right there.

Or with BU starting football:

Lehigh/Lafayette
Georgetown/Fordham
Holy Cross/BU
Bucknell/Colgate

Or with Loyola starting football:

Lehigh/Lafayette
Georgetown/Loyola
Holy Cross/Fordham
Bucknell/Colgate

As you can see, I have given it thought. Even if it's unrealistic.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's the responsibility of the schools to maintain a rivalry and for the league to recognize it appropriately. Even the most ardent Leopard or Engineer fan out there must admit that the PL seems to recognize only one football rivalry game in the conference, and Leh/Laf would not be diminished if Colgate-HC were viewed as games worthy of recognition: for example, the HC-Colgate series is longer than such rivalries as VMI-Citadel, Delaware-Villanova, or even Grambling-Southern.

You miss, though, that Colgate did literally nothing to commemorate the 75th game, even though they could have. Contrast that to the Syracuse/Colgate game, with had release after release publicizing the blowout-to-come, arranging bus rides, tailgates, etc.

[ColgateTD]

Seeing the nostalgia for the "big time", odd that many of the Gate's "glory years" in the 1930s intersect with games with Lafayette as well as Holy Cross.

And it's a real shame, too, that Colgate didn't jump on this 75th anniversary game more. Hell, Andy Kerr coached against the Crusaders in the some of the very early meetings. The first game in Hamilton was a 6-6 tie. There's plenty there, I'm sure, if folks had cared to look.

'Gate's PR "machine" is run by hamsters. You're never going to see 10,000 at Andy Kerr these days (unless we are in the post-season a la 2003). Being in the middle of nowhere, with HC fans having to cross those Rocky (Berkshire) Mountains means attendance for this game will never be what it should be for a 75th. That said, much depends on the weather forecast for central NY.

It's a falacy to say that we look down our noses at LU, LC and the other PL schools. We may be highly academic, but also have a healthy regard for what LU, LC etc. have done on the football field. We've also had some amazing games vs. HC, and in fact back when Gordy Luckbaum was the QB at Cross, had some real fine top-notch rivalries.

It's not a deal of oldtimers looking back at 'Cuse, Penn State, etc. The reality is that that is in the past, and now we must focus on where we are now...in the PL, fighting for our lives to stay competitive with the rest of you. Heck, we played 'Cuse a year or so ago and held them pretty even for one half (with Eachus), but then the diffferences in the programs became apparent. With schollies coming, it will be interesting to see where the chips fall for all PL teams.

Don't underestimate 'Gate's reverence for other PL schools. This is the hand we've all been dealt; we have enough trouble just staying even with you folks. Any thoughts of adversaries from the 30's and 40's is pure dreaming.

[Bill]

The rivalry week thing is interesting, but wouldn't Colgate's football rivalry game Cornell? I think they've played 95+ times - but don't quote me...

Colgate TD - well said. It's just my Dad is one of those old timers, and if I hear one more story about playing against Jim Brown (maybe in lax), I might pukexrotatehx

[carney2]

Has anyone else completely forgotten that the Patriot League signed up Boston University and Loyola (MD) as new members? No football and no tradition with the existing Patriot League members makes both of them ho-hum pick ups. The folks in Center Valley have to do better than this. The League, after all, cannot add an infinite number of schools, so selectivity should be a watchword.

[carney2]

The rivalry week thing is interesting, but wouldn't Colgate's football rivalry game Cornell? I think they've played 95+ times - but don't quote me...

Unless Cornell is leaving Olde Ivy for the Patriot or the 'gaters have received an invite to the Ancient Eight, none of this was worth your time and effort.

[Sader87]

From a Holy Cross perspective, I think one of the reasons Colgate is viewed as its biggest football rival is that in reality we hardly ever played the other 3 of the "core 5" PL schools before 1986. HC and Lafayette had never played before 1986, had only played Lehigh once in 1924 and Bucknell twice in 1925 and 1953. Colgate on the other hand had played those schools a fair amount before 1986. (Lafayette 29 times, Lehigh 25 times and Bucknell 33 times.)

[CrusaderBob]

And how are they suppose to promote this? What exactly are they suppose to do? Isn't it up to Colgate and HC's local media to get people interested in the game?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, a simple no cost, no compromise of academic anything, would have helped not only promote, but create rivalries in the PL.

20 years ago, the PL should have started scheduling pairs of schools to finish the season every year in every sport. By 2000 the rivalries would have been in the blood of every school.

Sigh! xsmhx

[TheValleyRaider]

A few thoughts on the passing scene, getting a few more Colgate voices in here (there are a few of us around)

Bob is right, certainly the saving of a date at the end of the season for some game not just L-L would have gone a long way to promoting some kind of rivalry spirit in the rest of the league. I think this would have been especially important in the earliest days of the League when you have schools with only some shared history joining forces.

As for Colgate's perspective on the League, certainly there is a vocal section of the fan base that is unhappy with the League not so much due to the present, but more so that when Colgate decided to join the League, schools like Lafayette and Lehigh were D-IIs that had moved up, whereas Colgate was "moving down." 30 years later, those arguments don't mean as much, but given when they happened, there is a sense of decline (some would say willful decline) amongst some of the alumni. Playing some schools regularly is not the same thing as being in the same conference, and I don't think anyone is necessarily sticking up their nose at hobnobbing with Lafayette or Bucknell from an academic perspective

The Patriot League also suffers, I think, because it isn't the schools that loom largest in Colgate's athletic history. Our Top 10 all-time played list includes Syracuse, Rutgers, Yale, Princeton, and Cornell, without really regular games against any of those schools in the last 20 years if not longer (outside of Cornell, and they're 20 games ahead of everyone else)

Add to that our other big sport is Hockey. There is no Patriot Hockey League, we play in a conference with...wait for it...the Ivies (plus programs like RPI and Clarkson). Only Holy Cross and Army have hockey, and they are historically not even close to where we are (which admittedly isn't all that high). Basketball gets very little traction on campus. Maybe Lacrosse growing will help, but that may take a little while.

I'm glad we have a long history with HC. 75 meetings is our second most all-time, behind only Cornell, with 94. Certainly the school could do more to play it up, but moving the scheduled game around does not help to build a real sense of rivalry. Rivalries thrive on regularity. It doesn't even have to be on the last weekend (though that helps). OU-Texas at the State Fair, Bama-Tennessee on the Third Saturday in October. Playing HC in Week 2, like last year? I just don't know...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Most memorable HC/Colgate game: 2008, 28-27 Colgate, which was essentially the PL title game that year.

[Sader87]

It is what it is (to use an oft over-used phrase) now but both Colgate and Holy Cross were an odd fit for the Colonial League (athletically) from the get go. I'd say HC moreso due to geographical and historical (and to a lesser extent, institutional) reasons.

It's a nice league with great schools but as you can see from DFW's post (HC averaged about 15,000 in 1982), it has gutted the support for football HC once had with students, alumni and the Massachusetts public.

[DFW HOYA]

The Patriot League also suffers, I think, because it isn't the schools that loom largest in Colgate's athletic history. Our Top 10 all-time played list includes Syracuse, Rutgers, Yale, Princeton, and Cornell, without really regular games against any of those schools in the last 20 years if not longer (outside of Cornell, and they're 20 games ahead of everyone else)


That's probably the case at most PL schools outside of Lehigh, Lafayette, and Bucknell. Some of Georgetown's top 10 don't even play football any more.

[Sader87]

Patriot League helped (athletically): Bucknell, Lafayette and Lehigh. Hurt badly Colgate football....and decimated Holy Cross football and basketball.

The other schools are harder to equate as GTown and Fordham play PL only in football and Army and Navy are allowed to continue to play FBS football.

[TheValleyRaider]

That's probably the case at most PL schools outside of Lehigh, Lafayette, and Bucknell. Some of Georgetown's top 10 don't even play football any more.

That was certainly the point. For Colgate and HC, the PL represented schools we may have been familiar with, but wouldn't have considered regular foes in the same manner

[Franks Tanks]

Patriot League helped (athletically): Bucknell, Lafayette and Lehigh. Hurt badly Colgate football....and decimated Holy Cross football and basketball.

The other schools are harder to equate as GTown and Fordham play PL only in football and Army and Navy are allowed to continue to play FBS football.

I don't know if that is completely true. Lafayette was in the top 10 of the newly formed I-AA in 1981. The basketball conference we played in before was stronger than the Patriot League(LaSalle, St. Joe's, Temple, Drexel, Hofstra, Delaware etc). I think all PL member schools were hurt by the AI to a degree.

[Sader87]

I don't know if that is completely true. Lafayette was in the top 10 of the newly formed I-AA in 1981. The basketball conference we played in before was arguably stronger than the Patriot League. I think all PL member schools were hurt by the AI to a degree.

Good point and I don't disagree...the AI and (originally) no scholarships in either football or basketball hurt everyone in the PL.

My point, and I'm being a selfish HC alum in saying so I know...is that in sum total, no school in the PL has been hurt (in terms of both football and basketball success and support) or as adversely effected as much as Holy Cross.

[Franks Tanks]

Good point and I don't disagree...the AI and (originally) no scholarships in either football or basketball hurt everyone in the PL.

My point, and I'm being a selfish HC alum in saying so I know...is that in sum total, no school in the PL has been hurt (in terms of both football and basketball success and support) or as adversely effected as much as Holy Cross.

Agree 100% in regard to Holy Cross football. No guarantee that the success would've continued after Duffner left, which was inevitable, but with scholarships Holy Cross would most likley have been a good to great FCS football team over the last 20 years or so.

[Sader87]

Moving forward, instead of dwelling on the past (nobody beats HC fans for this btw), hopefully with football scholarships in place the PL can compete favorably year-in and year-out on a national level (as our Ivy peers are choosing not to....to sort of combine the two threads here).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Moving forward, instead of dwelling on the past (nobody beats HC fans for this btw), hopefully with football scholarships in place the PL can compete favorably year-in and year-out on a national level (as our Ivy peers are choosing not to....to sort of combine the two threads here).

I thought you were going into a discussion as to the winner of this game having the inside track to win the Patriot League, but the fact this subject has not come up yet is speaking volumes to me.

[Hawk98]

Has anyone else completely forgotten that the Patriot League signed up Boston University and Loyola (MD) as new members? No football and no tradition with the existing Patriot League members makes both of them ho-hum pick ups. The folks in Center Valley have to do better than this. The League, after all, cannot add an infinite number of schools, so selectivity should be a watchword.

I get this is a football board, and the adds did nothing for football, but it does help other sports. Patriot League is now one of the premier lacrosse conferences, for example. The PL also now has 10 full members, and can add associate members for football if needed.

[ColgateTD]

I thought you were going into a discussion as to the winner of this game having the inside track to win the Patriot League, but the fact this subject has not come up yet is speaking volumes to me.

It's quite obvious -- and does not need to be verbalized by Sader -- that 'Gate will have the inside track after Saturday.

[Pard4Life]

I thought you were going into a discussion as to the winner of this game having the inside track to win the Patriot League, but the fact this subject has not come up yet is speaking volumes to me.

No, the league promoting other rivalry games is more important.

[RichH2]

It's great that Gate and Cross have a 75 game rivalry. Among many others.Perhaps PL should mention it but the schools should promote. No one other than Lehigh and Lafayette promoted our Rivalry.

[Go...gate]

From a Holy Cross perspective, I think one of the reasons Colgate is viewed as its biggest football rival is that in reality we hardly ever played the other 3 of the "core 5" PL schools before 1986. HC and Lafayette had never played before 1986, had only played Lehigh once in 1924 and Bucknell twice in 1925 and 1953. Colgate on the other hand had played those schools a fair amount before 1986. (Lafayette 29 times, Lehigh 25 times and Bucknell 33 times.)

To a lot of Colgate and HC people, the Colgate-HC series transcends the Patriot League. We have played each other in good times and bad, when both schools were really good and both schools were struggling. For many years, an award was given to the MVP of the game. It is an underappreciated rivalry.

[Go...gate]

I get this is a football board, and the adds did nothing for football, but it does help other sports. Patriot League is now one of the premier lacrosse conferences, for example. The PL also now has 10 full members, and can add associate members for football if needed.

IMO, serious reservations should be had about Loyola. They are truly the Pluto in the PL solar system.

[Go...gate]

Most memorable HC/Colgate game: 2008, 28-27 Colgate, which was essentially the PL title game that year.

The 21-21 tie in 1972 was an outstanding football game, as was the 22-21 Colgate win in 1974. There have been a lot of memorable games between the schools.

[RichH2]

Pluto, eh? We should ask Bogie to make a visual of that concept. Not too sure of its correctness but it it funny.

[Hawk98]

IMO, serious reservations should be had about Loyola. They are truly the Pluto in the PL solar system.

Why? They have solid academic credentials and are private. Granted they are a Catholic university, but so is Holy Cross and they fit in the PL just fine.

[Sader87]

Why? They have solid academic credentials and are private. Granted they are a Catholic university, but so is Holy Cross and they fit in the PL just fine.

Geez thanks.....I'm sure Georgetown and Fordham will associately thank you as well.

For the record Holy Cross is not a university nor is it located in Wooster or Worchester or in the state of Indiana. xsmiley_wix

[Hawk98]

Why? They have solid academic credentials and are private. Granted they are a Catholic university, but so is Holy Cross and they fit in the PL just fine.

Geez thanks.....I'm sure Georgetown and Fordham will associately thank you as well.

For the record Holy Cross is not a university nor is it located in Wooster or Worchester or in the state of Indiana. xsmiley_wix

Georgetown and Fordham are associate members, they don't count. ;-)

Forgot Holy Cross wasn't a university, sorry about that.

I'm really hoping to make it out there for the Lehigh-HC this year, it's the next to last PL stadium I haven't been to (no G-Town either).

[CrusaderBob]

Bob is right, certainly the saving of a date at the end of the season for some game not just L-L would have gone a long way to promoting some kind of rivalry spirit in the rest of the league.

Well, there's something I don't hear too often! And it's never too late for the PL to adopt my proposal! :)

But, to get us back to the topic at hand, I'll predict games for the first time this year...



LAFAYETTE @ Yale
LEHIGH @ GEORGETOWN
HOLY CROSS @ COLGATE
BUCKNELL @ Harvard
FORDHAM @ Cincinnati

[Go...gate]

Why? They have solid academic credentials and are private. Granted they are a Catholic university, but so is Holy Cross and they fit in the PL just fine.

Not in the same class as the rest of the conference.

[Go...gate]

Why? They have solid academic credentials and are private. Granted they are a Catholic university, but so is Holy Cross and they fit in the PL just fine.

Geez thanks.....I'm sure Georgetown and Fordham will associately thank you as well.

For the record Holy Cross is not a university nor is it located in Wooster or Worchester or in the state of Indiana. xsmiley_wix

And for the record Loyola is not in the same class academically as HC, Georgetown or Fordham.

[Hawk98]

[QUOTE=Sader87;1864673]

And for the record Loyola is not in the same class academically as HC, Georgetown or Fordham.

Their NCAA APR scores are pretty consistent with the Patriot League scores, which the exception of their Men's Basketball team.

[Hawk98]

Loyola is less selective though ... they take 65% of applicants, while most of the PL seems to be in the 25-40% range.

[Go...gate]

Yale 27, Lafayette 23

Lehigh 30, Georgetown 26

Colgate 24, Holy Cross 21

Harvard 41, Bucknell 13

Cincinnati 48, Fordham 10

[ngineer]

[QUOTE=Go...gate;1864682]

Their NCAA APR scores are pretty consistent with the Patriot League scores, which the exception of their Men's Basketball team.

APR is not the issue. It's the academic "footprint" of the student body. The PL schools are pretty selective...indeed Bucknell, Lafayette, Colgate, Holy Cross, Georgetown and Lehigh are rated as highly or very selective. Not that Loyola is not a good school, but by various metrics it's not in the upper tiers.

[Sader87]

3-1 last week; 25-9 for the year.

3 nationally televised games this week (2 ESPN 3's and 1 CBS Sports Network)...not too shabby.

Yale 27 Lafayette 24 Two teams that are stumbling and bumbling lately...I'll go with the home team.

Lehigh 23 GTown 14 Once again Lehigh prevails, but once again it won't be pretty.

Holy Cross 17 Colgate 16 Saders take the diamond jubilee contest of this series.

Harvard (pick any high number) Bucknell (pick a very low number) Could be ugly.

Cincy 45 Fordham 17 A nice payday for the Rams.

[DFW HOYA]

Loyola is less selective though ... they take 65% of applicants, while most of the PL seems to be in the 25-40% range.

Point of comparison: Georgetown has dropped to a 16% accept rate, and that's without the Common Application.

[Pard4Life]

The Holy Bible aka USNWR ranks Loyola second for regional universities behind Villanova, who'd we all jump for joy if they joined the PL. Loyola is not far off base, though I always maintained Fairfield would be the one to join.

I think the Presidents actually realize that they need to consider other schools to join the league in athletics even though they do not have as high standards as the core, as long as their APR metrics are high.

[RichH2]

The Holy Bible aka USNWR ranks Loyola second for regional universities behind Villanova, who'd we all jump for joy if they joined the PL. Loyola is not far off base, though I always maintained Fairfield would be the one to join.

I think the Presidents actually realize that they need to consider other schools to join the league in athletics even though they do not have as high standards as the core, as long as their APR metrics are high.

Yup.

[Go...gate]

The Holy Bible aka USNWR ranks Loyola second for regional universities behind Villanova, who'd we all jump for joy if they joined the PL. Loyola is not far off base, though I always maintained Fairfield would be the one to join.

I think the Presidents actually realize that they need to consider other schools to join the league in athletics even though they do not have as high standards as the core, as long as their APR metrics are high.

Graduation rates do not equal academic standing.

[Pard4Life]

Graduation rates do not equal academic standing.

Right, but they are reputable ENOUGH... ranked highly ENOUGH... and try to build their athletic teams around students that are academically geared and can at least do the work.

[Pard4Life]

Where is LFN and his picks of misery? He has several choices to which to assign a score of '6' this weekend...

[DFW HOYA]

Right, but they are reputable ENOUGH... ranked highly ENOUGH... and try to build their athletic teams around students that are academically geared and can at least do the work.

So when the PL adds Quinnipiac and Fairfield to go to 12, will the motto be: "The Patriot League: Just Good Enough..."?

[van]

So when the PL adds Quinnipiac and Fairfield to go to 12, will the motto be: "The Patriot League: Just Good Enough..."?

I like it, give Femovich a call!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So when the PL adds Quinnipiac and Fairfield to go to 12, will the motto be: "The Patriot League: Just Good Enough..."?

Or Fordham (in all sports) and Marist, hoovering up every possible plausible Division I school that still sponsors football and isn't in the CAA.

Though seriously, I'd love for either BU and Loyola to restart/start football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Let's hope you haven't been betting my picks, as I haven't exactly been ripping it up. Too much faith in the Leopards last week in the face of The Curse and too much misplaced faith in Bucknell left me at 2-2.

Lehigh 24, Georgetown 21. Find out why here (http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2012/10/game-breakdown-lehigh-at-georgetown.html).

Yale 31, Lafayette 20: I'm getting a real sense of foreboding around Leopardville that their problems are deep-seated and won't be solved this week. I am seriously hoping they prove me wrong, but I don't think so.

Colgate 37, Holy Cross 13: Colgate has figured out how to score on offense, and that should be plenty enough to take care of the Crusaders.

Harvard 48, Bucknell 6: Harvard is simply THAT GOOD. Oh yeah, and Bucknell can't score.

Cincinnati 38, Fordham 31: I think this is going to be the underrated game of the week. I don't think it will be the blowout some expect, and by the end I think there will be many PL fans following the end of this one.

[Pard4Life]

Yale 31, Lafayette 20: I'm getting a real sense of foreboding around Leopardville that their problems are deep-seated and won't be solved this week. I am seriously hoping they prove me wrong, but I don't think so.

:Said in Joe Biden 2014 voice: "We... Will... Beat.. Yale... Tomorrow. Period."

[carney2]

:Said in Joe Biden 2014 voice: "We... Will... Beat.. Yale... Tomorrow. Period."

Inside info? Is the fix in? Does he KNOW something?

[Pard4Life]

Inside info? Is the fix in? Does he KNOW something?

No, I'm just confident in Lafayette victory said in the affirmative voice of Biden in last night's debate.

[Hawk98]

LAFAYETTE @ Yale
LEHIGH @ GEORGETOWN
HOLY CROSS @ COLGATE
BUCKNELL @ Harvard
FORDHAM @ Cincinnati

3-1 last week, 3-1 overall

4-1, 7-2. Both incorrect from the damn leopards.

[Sader87]

3-1 last week; 25-9 for the year.

3 nationally televised games this week (2 ESPN 3's and 1 CBS Sports Network)...not too shabby.

Yale 27 Lafayette 24 Two teams that are stumbling and bumbling lately...I'll go with the home team.

Lehigh 23 GTown 14 Once again Lehigh prevails, but once again it won't be pretty.

Holy Cross 17 Colgate 16 Saders take the diamond jubilee contest of this series.

Harvard (pick any high number) Bucknell (pick a very low number) Could be ugly.

Cincy 45 Fordham 17 A nice payday for the Rams.

3-2.....Pards made me look bad and my alma mater continues to add losses in my ledger here....had the other 3 fairly right on though.
Only 3 games on this docket this coming week.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Cincinnati 48 Fordham 20 - The Rams won't get completely blown out.

Harvard 41 Bucknell 17 - The Crimson are way too strong.

Yale 20 Lafayette 17 - I honestly don't have a clue. The Eli usually play pretty well at home if nothing else.

Colgate 38 Holy Cross 21 - The Raiders are too potent for a shaky Crusaders D.

Lehigh 34 Georgetown 17 - As long as Lehigh avoids turnovers they should win by two plus scores. Georgetown lived off of turnovers last year. Since joining the PL, the closest the Hoyas have come to beating Lehigh is 17 points in 2010.


4-1 on the week, 30-9 overall, not too bad. I preached turnovers all week but Lehigh didn't listen.

[PJ McJorma]

Fordham gave Bearcats a game for one half. Opening drive Rams got to Bearcat 18-yard line but QB fumbled and Bearcat ran it back for td. 2nd half first three possesion Bearcats scored making it 35-6. Big plays in all three drives.

[Sader87]

Fordham gave Bearcats a game for one half. Opening drive Rams got to Bearcat 18-yard line but QB fumbled and Bearcat ran it back for td. 2nd half first three possesion Bearcats scored making it 35-6. Big plays in all three drives.

Caught some of it, saw FU's 2nd TD and 2 pt'er (great play)...Rams looked good, just no substitute for the speed those teams have overall.

[Pard4Life]

It's early, but not much to ponder this week: 3-1 last week, 27-7 overall... missed on BU.

Lafayette 38, Yale 31... if we can't score on Yale, God help us. Yale can't play defense and ZZ has an arm. Will Tavani craft a coherent game plan? Pard D should really shut them down, but not based on how things are lately.

Lehigh 28, Georgetown 17... this should be the score, but it will likely be closer as Lehigh finds a way to make it exciting.

Colgate 45, Holy Cross 21... ugly.

Harvard 58, Bucknell 3... brutal.

Cinncinatti 41, Fordham 3... heinous.

5-0. 32-7 overall. Think I'm in first.