A Georgia State Question from up North

[M Ruler]

Without smack or getting my a$$ beat on this post can someone tell me why Georgia State is so awful?? I am not intending to offend any of their fans I am just curious how they have become this bad. Savannah State I understand is a D 3 school at the FCS level due to scholarships( they should consider the Pioneer...but that is for another post). By the same token Old Dominion has become a power in roughly the same time frame.

The state of Georgia has great players and football is a religion in the South. What seems to be their problem? I know the blue chips go to Georgia and Georgia Tech and the remaing kids go to Georgia Southern, Furman, or App State, I would imagine that Georgia State would get their fair share of great players. Is Bill Curry that bad of a coach? I guess I am spoiled because Bob Ford is our coach.

Man, its gonna be ugly at the next level.

[PaladinFan]

Without smack or getting my a$$ beat on this post can someone tell me why Georgia State is so awful?? I am not intending to offend any of their fans I am just curious how they have become this bad. Savannah State I understand is a D 3 school at the FCS level due to scholarships( they should consider the Pioneer...but that is for another post). By the same token Old Dominion has become a power in roughly the same time frame.

The state of Georgia has great players and football is a religion in the South. What seems to be their problem? I know the blue chips go to Georgia and Georgia Tech and the remaing kids go to Georgia Southern, Furman, or App State, I would imagine that Georgia State would get their fair share of great players. Is Bill Curry that bad of a coach? I guess I am spoiled because Bob Ford is our coach.

Man, its gonna be ugly at the next level.

This is just guessing, but there might be a couple of factors at play. First, Georgia is a hotbed for recruiting. It is absolutely silly how many powerful college football teams pepper the state, so it is not unheard of for much of the state's talent to end up out of state. I haven't checked in a while, but for the longest time Furman's roster was made up mostly of Georgia players. So, not only do you battle the in-state teams, but out of state teams too.

Another potential issues is the school itself. Georgia State is in downtown Atlanta. It's campus is a series of high rise buildings. It is, by and large, a commuter school. Few folks live "on campus." Wait, you say, Georgia Tech is in Atlanta too. Correct, GT is in Atlanta, but the distinct difference there (IMO) is that there has been a college there forever, and the city of Atlanta grew up around it. You can be on Tech's campus and not even realize you are in downtown Atlanta.

[GSUsTALON]

The state of Georgia has great players and football is a religion in the South. What seems to be their problem? I know the blue chips go to Georgia and Georgia Tech and the remaing kids go to Georgia Southern, Furman, or App State, I would imagine that Georgia State would get their fair share of great players. Is Bill Curry that bad of a coach? I guess I am spoiled because Bob Ford is our coach. Man, its gonna be ugly at the next level.


This is Curry's last year, but I have heard the hole coaching staff is not very good. GaSt has a lot going for them but coaching is not one of them. If the make the right chioce for a new head coach and staff they may be able to turn things around in 3-4 years,but they will be the bottom feders of the SunBelt for sure and even if they start winning their attendance is giving them fits.

[GSUsTALON]

Another potential issues is the school itself. Georgia State is in downtown Atlanta. It's campus is a series of high rise buildings. It is, by and large, a commuter school. on Tech's campus and not even realize you are in downtown .

I agree!

[The Eagle's Cliff]

The bad coaching is the biggest thing now, but the campus location AND PROXIMITY TO Tech (3.6 miles) and UGA (69 miles) make it an uphill battle for State to build tradition. Think UAB and you're on the right track for the challenge facing the Panthers.

[Tuscon]

Without smack or getting my a$$ beat on this post can someone tell me why Georgia State is so awful?? I am not intending to offend any of their fans I am just curious how they have become this bad. Savannah State I understand is a D 3 school at the FCS level due to scholarships( they should consider the Pioneer...but that is for another post). By the same token Old Dominion has become a power in roughly the same time frame.

The state of Georgia has great players and football is a religion in the South. What seems to be their problem? I know the blue chips go to Georgia and Georgia Tech and the remaing kids go to Georgia Southern, Furman, or App State, I would imagine that Georgia State would get their fair share of great players. Is Bill Curry that bad of a coach? I guess I am spoiled because Bob Ford is our coach.

Man, its gonna be ugly at the next level.

Lots of folks answering that have expressed disdain for our program. Yes, I think our major problem is Coach Curry. I think our talent is not so bad, but we've definitely whiffed on the recruiting trail. The coaches have shown that they don't know how to get the athletes to show up for a game and they have terrible game plans. We have a guy getting 100 yard games week in and week out with something like 5.4 yards per carry(haven't checked this stat for a while) and we run him 12 times last week. They seem to not have a clue.

About being close to Tech and UGA, we don't recruit the same players so I don't believe they are what is holding us back. We would be targeting the kids 1 tier lower I would think and should be able to keep a lot of talent in state. Like I said before, I think talent is less of an issue this year as we have a lot of the same players we've had and this year seems to be a new low on the field.

Another issue has been our QB carousel. We started year 1 with Drew Little as a RS Freshman and he was a solid QB. Star Jackson was behind him, and only behind him because he missed the bus to the Dome on the inaugural game. No joke. I think Curry pushed him out of the program. Then, Drew Little was suspended over the off season as well as his backup, Kelton Hill. Bo Schlecter, a kicker, filled in(I can't make this stuff up) and CBC thought he deserved the spot even after the suspensions were up. He would only seem to put Little in after the game was lost and there was a lot of pressure to come back. Not a good situation. So Drew Little left the program. Then, Bo Schlecter was dismissed for getting into a bar fight leaving Kelton Hill, Ben McClane(RS Freshman), and Ronnie Bell(transfer from Ohio). Kelton Hill was moved to DB and then WR within weeks of each other and McClane/Bell have interchanged starting QB this season.

As I wrote that paragraph above I became angry. All of that is bad coaching. We've had the talent to be a good team, but seem to let it slip through our fingers time and time again. New coaches will turn the on the field product around as long as we make the right hire.

[blueballs]

Tuscon, that's an honest, thorough, and in my opinion accurate assessment. Reppies your way!

[ITmonarch10]

Honestly, I have no clue why the fortunes of our school are so different. When you compare the two schools they are fairly similar. Both schools only have 2 FBS schools in their states and several other FCS schools. Both schools are large public universities located in an urban area with a lot of commuter students. ODU has been moving away from this as of late though. Georgia State's Coach/Recruiting Staff seems to have experience at the FBS level ; while, ODU's staff comes from mostly other CAA programs and local high school football powers. Both schools are located in fertile recruiting grounds. Honestly, I would bet Georgia State would have an advantage over ODU due to coaching staff ,but that's not the reality.

ODU has advantage over Georgia state is raw fan support. ODU has a strong basketball tradition with huge backing from the local media. Hampton University and William & Mary have been nearly forgotten about and Norfolk State has a small corner in the local newspaper if they are lucky. In addition, We were selling Season tickets to gauge public interest well before played our first game ,so we knew people were going to show up to games regardless. A majority of the 14,500 season ticket holders at our football games probably reserved there tickets 5+ years. Honestly, I don't know if Georgia State has historically had strong fan support for anything. The lack of tradition is probably why there fan support is under performing and the fact that they are just flat out horrible.

[Gringer1]

Atlanta is just not a good sports town because most of the people that live there don't consider it their real "home". Almost everyone in Atlanta is a transplant from somewhere else, so you have very few homegrown kids. Even the ones that do grow up there retain their parents favorite team from their hometown and all that. Just look at attendance at Atlanta professional sports games. Everyone from the Falcons to the Hawks have to be very good to draw consistent crowds. When the Braves host the Red Sox, there are more Boston fans in the stands than Atlanta because all the Bostonites that moved to Atlanta come out to support "their" team. Somehow Arizona managed to keep an ice hockey team, but Atlanta's got sold to Canada because nobody was going. Long and short, Atlanta is a terrible place to have a team because few people living there are loyal to the city above all others.

[DJnva]

ODU has an actual campus, whereas (apparently) Ga State does not. At least in the traditional sense.

My question--when the football team came on board, did they get their own building for their dorms, something new?

[GSUsTALON]

Lots of folks answering that have expressed disdain for our program. Yes, I think our major problem is Coach Curry. I think our talent is not so bad, but we've definitely whiffed on the recruiting trail. The coaches have shown that they don't know how to get the athletes to show up for a game and they have terrible game plans. We have a guy getting 100 yard games week in and week out with something like 5.4 yards per carry(haven't checked this stat for a while) and we run him 12 times last week. They seem to not have a clue.

About being close to Tech and UGA, we don't recruit the same players so I don't believe they are what is holding us back. We would be targeting the kids 1 tier lower I would think and should be able to keep a lot of talent in state. Like I said before, I think talent is less of an issue this year as we have a lot of the same players we've had and this year seems to be a new low on the field.

Another issue has been our QB carousel. We started year 1 with Drew Little as a RS Freshman and he was a solid QB. Star Jackson was behind him, and only behind him because he missed the bus to the Dome on the inaugural game. No joke. I think Curry pushed him out of the program. Then, Drew Little was suspended over the off season as well as his backup, Kelton Hill. Bo Schlecter, a kicker, filled in(I can't make this stuff up) and CBC thought he deserved the spot even after the suspensions were up. He would only seem to put Little in after the game was lost and there was a lot of pressure to come back. Not a good situation. So Drew Little left the program. Then, Bo Schlecter was dismissed for getting into a bar fight leaving Kelton Hill, Ben McClane(RS Freshman), and Ronnie Bell(transfer from Ohio). Kelton Hill was moved to DB and then WR within weeks of each other and McClane/Bell have interchanged starting QB this season.

As I wrote that paragraph above I became angry. All of that is bad coaching. We've had the talent to be a good team, but seem to let it slip through our fingers time and time again. New coaches will turn the on the field product around as long as we make the right hire.

As usual Tuscon is the most rational and coherent poster from PantherTalk

[ITmonarch10]

The bad coaching is the biggest thing now, but the campus location AND PROXIMITY TO Tech (3.6 miles) and UGA (69 miles) make it an uphill battle for State to build tradition. Think UAB and you're on the right track for the challenge facing the Panthers.
Don't Forget about the Atlanta Falcons too. I guess ODU lucked out by UVA being almost 200 miles away and Vatech being 300+ miles away.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Don't Forget about the Atlanta Falcons too. I guess ODU lucked out by UVA being almost 200 miles away and Vatech being 300+ miles away.


The "problem" with getting an FBS invite for Ga Southern is being in a small market, but I also think it's the blessing that has allowed us to build a fan base and tradition. Our fans are descended from UGA and Tech fans as well as (now) kids who grow up with Ga Southern. Tech and UGA games are 3 or 4 hours away for folks in South Georgia.

Jacksonville State and Troy have better fan bases and traditions than UAB for the same reason. Right now, a kid taking a recruiting trip to App State, Ga Southern, Ga State, and Middle Tennessee will probably put Ga State on the bottom of his list because the other three campuses and game day atmosphere are heads and shoulders above State.

[atlfcsfan]

Being close to Ga or Tech doesnt have anything to do with why they are winless. they havent recruited the same athletes as those schools and probably never will, even in FBS. They are going to be looking at the 2 and 3 star athletes. I think its been bad coaching, and not really having a clear system that potential players can identify with. Also the QB situation has never been settled there, seems like they go thru about 3 QB's a year. They definitely will have some long years ahead in FBS, but they are in a recruiting hotbed and a couple of solid recruiting classes, they should be competive in the next couple of years (assuming a quality coach).

[eaglewraith]

Coaching is a definitely to blame. Bill Curry was never a great coach. He was definitely a well known and respected name in the business though. I guess Ga State thought he would bring credibility to their program through name recognition alone. And it worked to some point. Because of Curry, they got to be on the cover of ESPN The Magazine, and their game against Alabama was televised on ESPNU with the College Gameday cast doing the commentating. That was a lot of good exposure because of one single guy. However, no one capitalized on that momentum and they haven't been able to put a quality product on the field.

A lot of their problems go beyond the football field and coaching. I'm honestly starting to believe they have a worse AD than Sam Baker ever was, and I never thought I would be able to say that. I've heard several things that I can't believe. I've never even seen the woman wearing anything close to school colors either, not even on the day of their biggest football related press conference ever when they announced the move to the Sun Belt. On the day of their first game ever, she hired a documentary crew for the game....well that's cool right? Wrong, they were there to follow HER around and document HER, not the event that was transpiring.

They have a $24 million dollar budget which is up there pretty high for this level of play. 88% of that is student fees. They've done a lackluster job of bringing in external revenue streams. Without the student fees being at the level they are, it's doubtful they could even afford a move to FBS. Hell, they didn't even study how many women's scholarships they would need to add until AFTER they had received an invite. Apparently their finances are so tight, they can't afford to put on an official Spring Game. The one this past spring was just a regular scrimmage at their practice facility.

One of the craziest things I've seen this year on their boards is that apparently the players are being shipped to the main student dining hall prior to games. So they're trying to cut corners with their budget by forcing the players to eat on campus. It's led to a bunch of students getting mad that they have to come in behind the entire football team when it's time to eat as well.

These might not be the cause of why they're doing awfully on the field, but it's just symptoms of worse issues.

[Tuscon]

Honestly, I have no clue why the fortunes of our school are so different. When you compare the two schools they are fairly similar. Both schools only have 2 FBS schools in their states and several other FCS schools. Both schools are large public universities located in an urban area with a lot of commuter students. ODU has been moving away from this as of late though. Georgia State's Coach/Recruiting Staff seems to have experience at the FBS level ; while, ODU's staff comes from mostly other CAA programs and local high school football powers. Both schools are located in fertile recruiting grounds. Honestly, I would bet Georgia State would have an advantage over ODU due to coaching staff ,but that's not the reality.

ODU has advantage over Georgia state is raw fan support. ODU has a strong basketball tradition with huge backing from the local media. Hampton University and William & Mary have been nearly forgotten about and Norfolk State has a small corner in the local newspaper if they are lucky. In addition, We were selling Season tickets to gauge public interest well before played our first game ,so we knew people were going to show up to games regardless. A majority of the 14,500 season ticket holders at our football games probably reserved there tickets 5+ years. Honestly, I don't know if Georgia State has historically had strong fan support for anything. The lack of tradition is probably why there fan support is under performing and the fact that they are just flat out horrible.

I think the coaching staff having experience at the lower level actually gave you guys an advantage. We had coaches in place that were used to dealing with nothing but high 3, 4, 5 star athletes and made decisions like running a 3-4 defense without a huge NT(which is hard to get at this level). Whereas your coaches already had experience getting the talent that was able to be gotten and then molding them into better athletes.


ODU has an actual campus, whereas (apparently) Ga State does not. At least in the traditional sense.

My question--when the football team came on board, did they get their own building for their dorms, something new?

Not sure why anyone believes we don't have a campus. It's just in the city. Our administration is making strides to buy up land for dorms and get the percentage of students living on campus up. We're trying to break out of that commuter school mold where we are traditionally and get into the urban national research university mold where our academics are.

I can't really speak on the football team getting their own dorms. I imagine they room together, but I'm not sure about separate buildings. I do, however, know that our athletes eat in the same cafeteria as all the rest of the students which leads me to believe our S&C might be impacted negatively.


The "problem" with getting an FBS invite for Ga Southern is being in a small market, but I also think it's the blessing that has allowed us to build a fan base and tradition. Our fans are descended from UGA and Tech fans as well as (now) kids who grow up with Ga Southern. Tech and UGA games are 3 or 4 hours away for folks in South Georgia.

Jacksonville State and Troy have better fan bases and traditions than UAB for the same reason. Right now, a kid taking a recruiting trip to App State, Ga Southern, Ga State, and Middle Tennessee will probably put Ga State on the bottom of his list because the other three campuses and game day atmosphere are heads and shoulders above State.

This stuff takes time. I hope we can create great traditions just like the teams you mentioned. We can't have had kids growing up being fans of Georgia State football yet. The culture at the school is changing. It just takes time.

[DJnva]

Not sure why anyone believes we don't have a campus. It's just in the city. Our administration is making strides to buy up land for dorms and get the percentage of students living on campus up. We're trying to break out of that commuter school mold where we are traditionally and get into the urban national research university mold where our academics are.


I said a campus in the traditional sense. I know an urban campus can have benefits, but it's a tough sell to kids who won't realize what those are until they're done with school.


I think the coaching staff having experience at the lower level actually gave you guys an advantage. We had coaches in place that were used to dealing with nothing but high 3, 4, 5 star athletes and made decisions like running a 3-4 defense without a huge NT(which is hard to get at this level). Whereas your coaches already had experience getting the talent that was able to be gotten and then molding them into better athletes.

Interesting. And 180 degrees from what was being said by Ga State partisans a few years ago.

[Tuscon]

Coaching is a definitely to blame. Bill Curry was never a great coach. He was definitely a well known and respected name in the business though. I guess Ga State thought he would bring credibility to their program through name recognition alone. And it worked to some point. Because of Curry, they got to be on the cover of ESPN The Magazine, and their game against Alabama was televised on ESPNU with the College Gameday cast doing the commentating. That was a lot of good exposure because of one single guy. However, no one capitalized on that momentum and they haven't been able to put a quality product on the field.

A lot of their problems go beyond the football field and coaching. I'm honestly starting to believe they have a worse AD than Sam Baker ever was, and I never thought I would be able to say that. I've heard several things that I can't believe. I've never even seen the woman wearing anything close to school colors either, not even on the day of their biggest football related press conference ever when they announced the move to the Sun Belt. On the day of their first game ever, she hired a documentary crew for the game....well that's cool right? Wrong, they were there to follow HER around and document HER, not the event that was transpiring.

They have a $24 million dollar budget which is up there pretty high for this level of play. 88% of that is student fees. They've done a lackluster job of bringing in external revenue streams. Without the student fees being at the level they are, it's doubtful they could even afford a move to FBS. Hell, they didn't even study how many women's scholarships they would need to add until AFTER they had received an invite. Apparently their finances are so tight, they can't afford to put on an official Spring Game. The one this past spring was just a regular scrimmage at their practice facility.

One of the craziest things I've seen this year on their boards is that apparently the players are being shipped to the main student dining hall prior to games. So they're trying to cut corners with their budget by forcing the players to eat on campus. It's led to a bunch of students getting mad that they have to come in behind the entire football team when it's time to eat as well.

These might not be the cause of why they're doing awfully on the field, but it's just symptoms of worse issues.

I hadn't even heard that, but I don't doubt it. There's not a lot of love for our AD among the fan base.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Having attended the UNH games at ODU and GaStU these past few weeks, I have to concur with a few things stated above. ODU did have more of a true campus than GaStU. I didn't walk the GaStU campus, just drove through it, but it seemed like a network of higher rise buildings and parking garages right on the fringe of downtown. I've never visited NYU, but I've been to city schools like Boston U., Northeastern, Yale, Brown, Penn, Drexel, George Washington, etc. and GaStU definitely had a different feel. Now, ODU had its share of parking garages too, but they also had green areas and the feel of an average college campus. And I toured the GA Tech campus and I agree you wouldn't know you were in downtown Atlanta. As for Atlanta and the transplant theory, I don't think I heard a Southern accent in my four days in town and I stayed in the suburbs. Had some really good Q at Fox Bros. though!! Didn't even bother with any sauce because the pulled pork, ribs and brisket were so good.

One of the more humorous moments was leaving the GA Dome and walking back toward Centennial Park. One of the "city people" was ragging at me, "05" and his wife about UNH not being good guests because we beat GaStU. His attire was a Georgia Bulldogs jersey!! Too funny!!

As for the football, the Panthers appeared to have some size, speed and talent but it didn't project into a good team effort.

[appfan2008]

I have just a couple of comments... one i grew up in the suburbs of atl and for the most part people do not go to Ga St for the college atmosphere or bc it is where they want to go... it is just a place to go and continue to live at home and have no responsibility in life or any connection to the school they attend... Almost everyone i knew that was going to school there continued on living like they were still in high school commuting back and forth from mom and dads house and hanging out in the evening doing nothing (obviously this isnt everyone but it is my personal connections)...
other comment is that if you look up and down the rosters at schools all over the southeast are a ton of kids from the ATL and its suburbs... at ALL levels... from top notch fbs (tennessee, alabama, clemson, south carolina, auburn, unc, etc.) to our level (ASU, WCU, Furman, presby, jacksonville st. etc...) and on down... it is a recruiting hot bed and Ga St has been unable to break through that attraction from the outside...

[DJnva]

[COLOR="#000080"]Having attended the UNH games at ODU and GaStU these past few weeks,

I may have missed it elsewhere--but what was your overall take on the atmosphere at ODU--from tailgating to the game?

[seantaylor]

The real talent in Georgia is in South Georgia. And anyone that has ever stepped foot on State's campus thinks it looks like the high school in The Prinicpal

[atlfcsfan]

While coaching has been a big part of that problem, but this AJC article seems to suggest that maybe some of it is bad recruiting.

http://blogs.ajc.com/georgia-state-sports/2012/10/09/evaluating-all-of-georgia-states-signees-going-back-to-2009/?cxntfid=blogs_georgia_state_sports

[Gringer1]

The real talent in Georgia is in South Georgia.

http://cdn.theatlanticcities.com/img/upload/2012/04/25/nfl_birth.jpg

?

[eaglewraith]

I wouldn't consider that a fair graph.

College =/= NFL

Lot of great players in college don't make it in the NFL.

[Gringer1]

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/EJ0fn_5Eqqx5R4TaLNC8Dw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTU0MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Yahoo/ept_sports_ncaaf_experts-806088189-1297288464.jpg

?

[Tuscon]

While coaching has been a big part of that problem, but this AJC article seems to suggest that maybe some of it is bad recruiting.

http://blogs.ajc.com/georgia-state-sports/2012/10/09/evaluating-all-of-georgia-states-signees-going-back-to-2009/?cxntfid=blogs_georgia_state_sports

I think it has more to do with the rate of attrition. On paper, it looks like we've done fine recruiting, but huge numbers are no longer with the program.

[seantaylor]

South Georgia obviously has less players, but better players.

[PaladinFan]

South Georgia obviously has less players, but better players.

This is UGA's football roster (http://www.sicemdawgs.com/football/fb_ros.php). I think we can all agree that UGA has first dibs on the state's best players.

You'll note that that the lion's share of the Georgians on the roster are from north of the fall line. Not south.