Week 5 Coaches Poll

[GradBison]

Coaches Week 5 Poll

Team (No. 1 Votes) Record Points Last Week
1. North Dakota State (26) 4-0 650 1
2. Montana State 5-0 616 2
3. Youngstown State 4-0 597 3
4. Old Dominion 5-0 578 4
5. Wofford 4-0 534 5
6. James Madison 3-1 506 6
7. Eastern Washington 3-1 486 7
8. Georgia Southern 3-1 450 9
9. Sam Houston State 2-2 415 10
10. Lehigh 5-0 406 11
11. Illinois State 5-0 396 12
12. Towson 2-2 315 13
13. Stony Brook 4-1 309 18
14. Appalachian State 3-2 294 16
15. Delaware 4-1 278 8
16. Eastern Kentucky 4-1 241 19
17. New Hampshire 3-2 227 22
18. McNeese State 4-1 198 21
19. Cal Poly 4-0 167 23
20. Central Arkansas 3-2 121 14
21. Northern Arizona 4-1 117 NR
22. The Citadel 3-2 114 15
23. Harvard 3-0 108 24
24. Tennessee State 5-0 82 NR
25. Northern Iowa 1-4 60 17


Others Receiving Votes: Albany (59), Montana (35), Alabama A&M (20), South Dakota State (18), Jacksonville State (12), Indiana State (10), Stephen F. Austin (9), Samford (7), North Dakota (7), Eastern Illinois (5), Villanova (3).

http://www.goblueridge.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17368&catid=55&Itemid=157

[bluehenbillk]

Almost as bad as TSN. Clearly CS.com & AGS are the more intelligent polls this week....

[Professor Chaos]

Delaware above New Hampshire is a head scratcher.

[danefan]

Lehigh at 10 is amazing to me.

[WileECoyote06]

I just could not put a 1 - 4 team in my poll. I know they've had a rough schedule, but I'm sorry something had to give.

[GradBison]

Almost as bad as TSN. Clearly CS.com & AGS are the more intelligent polls this week....

I'd say it's worse than the TSN...

[RabidRabbit]

I just could not put a 1 - 4 team in my poll. I know they've had a rough schedule, but I'm sorry something had to give.

Especially when that 1-4 team's ONLY win is vs a D-II, non-counter. They cannot get to 7 D-I wins this season. I'd say the UNI Panthers scheduled themselves out of the play-offs. Sure, they could POSSIBLY WIN THE MVFC Auto-bid, but only if NDSU or YSU don't tie UNI. Does any one see NDSU/YSU not be part of the MVFC top 3? Will either NDSU or YSU have 3 conference losses? I'd be betting against either of that happening.

[clenz]

Everyone was announcing his demise... oops!


I don't think anyone was really writing Tiger off for good. They were just stating a fact that he wasn't playing up to his capabilities.

There is no way he will eclipse Jack's records.

UNI could still easily end up 3rd in the conference. I don't see another loss....6-2 in conference and I bet we get in

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[darell1976]

I say Cal Poly is way to low in that poll 10-15 minimum. But 19?

[BISON Thunder]

UNI could still easily end up 3rd in the conference. I don't see another loss....6-2 in conference and I bet we get in

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

Agree Clenz...if UNI runs the table, will make the playoffs. And probably make a deep run.

[superman7515]

UNI could still easily end up 3rd in the conference. I don't see another loss....6-2 in conference and I bet we get in

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

If Montana and Delaware didn't make it with 6 D1 wins and the ability for the NCAA to make more money off them than UNI, UNI isn't getting in either.

[Catbooster]

It seems every year there's a team that a few people say will make the playoffs with 6 DI wins....but it doesn't happen. Maybe next year when they go to 24 teams (I'm still skeptical), but that will be too late for this year's UNI team (even thought they may be better than some of the teams that make it).

[89rabbit]

UNI could still easily end up 3rd in the conference. I don't see another loss....6-2 in conference and I bet we get in

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

How does 6 D-I wins and 3rd place in the MVFC get you in the playoffs? Did you see the 4 loses that you already have? :(

[Engineer86]

Lehigh at 10 is amazing to me.

The constant Albany campaigning is amazing to me. 1) look at our "good" loss. 2) look at our statement win ... Over a 1-3 team. Lehigh has a track record of beating expectations, such as at UNI and at Towson. They are 5-0, call it whatever you want, but LU at 10 may prove to be high, it has not yet. Glad we can amaze you.

You are almost in the CAA, so you should start taking the shots. That is what made the Towson win so sweet.

[danefan]

The constant Albany campaigning is amazing to me. 1) look at our "good" loss. 2) look at our statement win ... Over a 1-3 team. Lehigh has a track record of beating expectations, such as at UNI and at Towson. They are 5-0, call it whatever you want, but LU at 10 may prove to be high, it has not yet. Glad we can amaze you.

You are almost in the CAA, so you should start taking the shots. That is what made the Towson win so sweet.

Lehigh being ranked 10th has nothing to do with Albany. Trying to make it so is a deflection from the point.

[Engineer86]

Lehigh being ranked 10th has nothing to do with Albany. Trying to make it so is a deflection from the point.

No I am fine with Lehigh anywhere for 10-15, to say that is "amazing" is ignoring the fact that Lehigh has proven multiple times to be under estimated. No deflection on this issue.

I was guilty of combining the two issues though, point conceded.

The Albany campaigning has now turned to taking shots at teams above them. I have Albany at 14 and Lehigh at 10 (yes, amazing), I could see dropping LU to 12, but without going into a lengthy explanation based on what teams did this weekend and to date. I left them at 10. Based on the rest of the schedule, Albany will remain that high or maybe higher and maybe we will find out who is better when it really matters.

[danefan]

No I am fine with Lehigh anywhere for 10-15, to say that is "amazing" is ignoring the fact that Lehigh has proven multiple times to be under estimated. No deflection on this issue.

I was guilty of combining the two issues though, point conceded.

The Albany campaigning has now turned to taking shots at teams above them. I have Albany at 14 and Lehigh at 10 (yes, amazing), I could see dropping LU to 12, but without going into a lengthy explanation based on what teams did this weekend and to date. I left them at 10. Based on the rest of the schedule, Albany will remain that high or maybe higher and maybe we will find out who is better when it really matters.

What any team has done in the past is irrelevant to this year. We're 5 weeks in.

To your second point, I'm not campaigning anymore. Rank us wherever you want. We'll gladly sneak up on teams in the playoffs.

[Professor Chaos]

How does 6 D-I wins and 3rd place in the MVFC get you in the playoffs? Did you see the 4 loses that you already have? :(
Until it happens it's not worth debating at length but what if UNI beats both SDSU and Illinois St and gets to 6-2 in conference and 6-4 overall? Concievably in that scenario SDSU finishes at 7-4, Illinois St finishes at 8-3, and both are 5-3 in conference with head to head losses to UNI. IMO, you have to take a long hard look at UNI over either of those teams if you're the playoff committee. I'm not saying UNI would/should get in over either but it would definitely be a valid debate. All I'm saying is that their season isn't totally dead yet.

[Twentysix]

Until it happens it's not worth debating at length but what if UNI beats both SDSU and Illinois St and gets to 6-2 in conference and 6-4 overall? Concievably in that scenario SDSU finishes at 7-4, Illinois St finishes at 8-3, and both are 5-3 in conference with head to head losses to UNI. IMO, you have to take a long hard look at UNI over either of those teams if you're the playoff committee.

Conference record doesn't matter to that extent, No way 6 win UNI gets in over 8 Win+Fbs win ISU-r. You had a fraction of an arguement with the SDSU plot... but seriously? 6 win UNI in over 8 win (including an FBS victory) ISU-r, no way the head to head matters in that scenario.

Anyone from outside the valley wanna chime in on 6 win(0-2 vs FBS) UNI vs 8 win(1-0 vs FBS) ISU-r?

[Engineer86]

Conference record doesn't matter to that extent, No way 6 win UNI gets in over 8 Win+Fbs win ISU-r. You had a fraction of an arguement with the SDSU plot... but seriously? 6 win UNI in over 8 win (including an FBS victory) ISU-r, no way the head to head matters in that scenario.

Anyone from outside the valley wanna chime in on 6 win(0-2 vs FBS) UNI vs 8 win(1-0 vs FBS) ISU-r?

If you look just at the record and Ill St BCS win, I would say there is little argument, but that ignores a head to head win by UNI. I would think that game along with the overall picture makes it a very interesting debate. A 2-3 score win???

Also when the six win DU and MU teams did not get in who were their losses to? UNI is 2 BCS and 2 top 5 teams? While I am nota huge fan of the "good" loss, a 6-4 UNI with a head to head win over an 8-3 ISUr I would think would give the committee pause.

[Professor Chaos]

Conference record doesn't matter to that extent, No way 6 win UNI gets in over 8 Win+Fbs win ISU-r. You had a fraction of an arguement with the SDSU plot... but seriously? 6 win UNI in over 8 win (including an FBS victory) ISU-r, no way the head to head matters in that scenario.

Anyone from outside the valley wanna chime in on 6 win(0-2 vs FBS) UNI vs 8 win(1-0 vs FBS) ISU-r?
It's debatable is all I'm saying. We'll see whether UNI makes it one worth having.

An interesting, and ironic, aside to this is that UNI fans should be the biggest outside fans of NDSU and YSU for the rest of the regular season.

[Engineer86]

As long as UNI starts/keeps winning, this will be debated on this board and bracket day will be very interesting if your scenario plays out.

[clenz]

It's debatable is all I'm saying. We'll see whether UNI makes it one worth having.

An interesting, and ironic, aside to this is that UNI fans should be the biggest outside fans of NDSU and YSU for the rest of the regular season.
I will never be a fan of NDSU or YSU in any way shape or form....I will just hope they suck a little less than I normally would want them too xlolx


I'm not saying that if UNI wins out they are in....but I can promise you UNI will be the "first team out" if they don't get in. UNI would have top 25 wins over ISUr and SDSU, with likely crushing victories over USD, MSU, WIU and possible SIU (if the team doesn't come out flat after the bye week and the "only reach 6 D1 win thing".

UNI gets both ISUr and SDSU at home (SDSU on homecoming) at UNI's "normal" kick off time of 4PM. The time thing sounds stupid, but UNI doesn't lose many home games that have a 4PM kick off, most of the home losses are early or late kick offs....I can't explain it. UNI LOVES that 4PM kick off.

IF, and I mean IF, UNI does have convincing wins vs SIU, MSU, WIU, USD, a good win vs SIU, and W's vs ISUr and SDSU there will be a VERY strong case for UNI.

Yes, no team has gotten in with 6 D1 wins...I'm not sure any team would have played the schedule strength that UNI would have this year.

[MTfan4life]

Yes, no team has gotten in with 6 D1 wins...I'm not sure any team would have played the schedule strength that UNI would have this year.

James Madison in 2010. 6 DI wins. Win over ACC champion Virginia Tech. Win over future #2 seed William & Mary. All losses were against ranked opponents in a very top heavy CAA.

I'm not saying they should have been in the playoffs. I'm simply saying Northern Iowa isn't guaranteed to be the hands down best team to have ever missed out on the playoffs.

[MTfan4life]

Conference record doesn't matter to that extent, No way 6 win UNI gets in over 8 Win+Fbs win ISU-r. You had a fraction of an arguement with the SDSU plot... but seriously? 6 win UNI in over 8 win (including an FBS victory) ISU-r, no way the head to head matters in that scenario.

Anyone from outside the valley wanna chime in on 6 win(0-2 vs FBS) UNI vs 8 win(1-0 vs FBS) ISU-r?

You're using the term "FBS" as if all the FBS teams are equal. That's simply not the case. You're looking at the wrong statistic by claiming FBS win over no FBS wins.

However, they don't always judge by head-to-head. In 2005 both Montana and Montana State finished with 7 DI wins. Montana State held the head-to-head after defensively dominating in the brawl 16-6. However, just like I keep saying with the rankings, because there are other teams in FCS, the whole picture is looked at. There were three "West" teams with 7 wins. (Cal Poly, Montana, and Montana State) All three teams were 1-1 against each other. Montana had a two win advantage over MSU in the common opponent category and Cal Poly held a win over Big Sky auto-bid EWU, while MSU had lost to EWU. Also, I'm sure they gave a slight nod towards Montana in the tradition category.

There will be multiple facets in the decision of who gets in. I don't see why they'd reward an FBS win over a team without one, especially considering one played a much more inferior FBS opponent.

[Professor Chaos]

I will never be a fan of NDSU or YSU in any way shape or form....I will just hope they suck a little less than I normally would want them too xlolx
Fair enough, allow me to rephrase.

Ironically, UNI fans will (or should) be rooting for NDSU and YSU to win their remaining regular season games.

[Twentysix]

You're using the term "FBS" as if all the FBS teams are equal. That's simply not the case. You're looking at the wrong statistic by claiming FBS win over no FBS wins.

However, they don't always judge by head-to-head. In 2005 both Montana and Montana State finished with 7 DI wins. Montana State held the head-to-head after defensively dominating in the brawl 16-6. However, just like I keep saying with the rankings, because there are other teams in FCS, the whole picture is looked at. There were three "West" teams with 7 wins. (Cal Poly, Montana, and Montana State) All three teams were 1-1 against each other. Montana had a two win advantage over MSU in the common opponent category and Cal Poly held a win over Big Sky auto-bid EWU, while MSU had lost to EWU. Also, I'm sure they gave a slight nod towards Montana in the tradition category.

There will be multiple facets in the decision of who gets in. I don't see why they'd reward an FBS win over a team without one, especially considering one played a much more inferior FBS opponent.

They may not be equal but in no way is a loss, even more so two losses, greater than a win in regards to the playoffs. Had UNI beat EMU they would be in a much better situation than losing to Wisconsin and Iowa... don't you agree? The FBS win is icing on the cake when comparing a 6 win team with a head to head victory over an 8 win team.

Perhaps the big ten games would have been in some way slightly adventageous had they won their first two conference games, I still don't think the playoff committee is going to reward 2 Big ten losses more greatly than a win against EMU, all other things equal. Accept those other things are not equal.... as ISU-r is already 5-0 and UNI is 0-4. Ill look for your reply on wednesday or thursday when I can log back in.

[Twentysix]

It's debatable is all I'm saying. We'll see whether UNI makes it one worth having.

An interesting, and ironic, aside to this is that UNI fans should be the biggest outside fans of NDSU and YSU for the rest of the regular season.

It most certainly is debatable, until the playoff bracket is officially announced its entirely possible they will pick Missouri State University as an atlarge. I just sincerly doubt it. (Unless there is a written rule that states a winless team cannot gain an atlarge bid, I am not aware of one)

If a guide/rulebook to playoff selection is in print somewhere, specifically from the NCAA I would love to see it.

[Professor Chaos]

It most certainly is debatable, until the playoff bracket is officially announced its entirely possible they will pick Missouri State University as an atlarge. I just sincerly doubt it. (Unless there is a written rule that states a winless team cannot gain an atlarge bid, I am not aware of one)

If a guide/rulebook to playoff selection is in print somewhere, specifically from the NCAA I would love to see it.
This is the handbook from last year: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/football/2011/2011_1_football.pdf. I assume not a whole lot has changed.

Page 10 of the PDF has the at-large selection criteria:



Selection Criteria
[Reference: Bylaws 31.01.2, 31.01.3 and 31.3 in the NCAA Manual.]
At-large teams shall be selected by the Division I football committee, assisted by four regional advisory committees that serve in an advisory capacity only. The following principles shall apply when selecting at-large teams:

The committee shall select the best teams available on a national at-large basis to complete the bracket. Per NCAA Bylaw 31, the basic criteria used in the selection of at-large participants are (1) won-lost record, (2) strength-of-schedule, and (3) eligibility and availability of student-athletes for the NCAA championship;
There is no limit to the number of teams the committee may select from one conference;
The won-lost record of a team will be scrutinized to determine a team’s strength of schedule; however, less than seven Division I wins may place a team in jeopardy of not being selected;
The committee may give more consideration to those teams that have played all Division I opponents;
and
If the team of a committee member is under consideration, the member may not vote for the team being considered and will not be in the room when a vote is taken.
For those conferences that qualify for automatic qualification but do not receive it, a guaranteed at-large position shall be awarded in any year in which its conference champion team meets all of the following conditions:

Team wins a minimum of eight Division I games during the season;
Team wins a minimum of two non-conference games against Division I teams representing a conference that has earned an automatic qualification in that year;
and
Team finishes the season ranked 20 or higher in an average of the last regularseason media, coaches and/or computer polls (which will be determined by the committee on an annual basis). For 2011, the media poll will be the Sports Network Poll, the coaches poll will be the FCS Coaches poll and the computer poll will be a variation of the Gridiron Power Index – using only the following computer rankings: The Massey Ratings, Wolfe Rankings, Ashburn Rankings, Self Rankings and the Laz Index.






Clear as mud now right? xlolx

[Twentysix]

This is the handbook from last year: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/football/2011/2011_1_football.pdf. I assume not a whole lot has changed.

Page 10 of the PDF has the at-large selection criteria:



Clear as mud now right? xlolx

No kidding. They have 5 rules, which two or three are more like guidelines since they are all worded 'may'... and rule 6 is only written for the PFL...


may give more ; may place a team

Anyway thanks for the link.

[MTfan4life]

They may not be equal but in no way is a loss, even more so two losses, greater than a win in regards to the playoffs. Had UNI beat EMU they would be in a much better situation than losing to Wisconsin and Iowa... don't you agree? The FBS win is icing on the cake when comparing a 6 win team with a head to head victory over an 8 win team.

Perhaps the big ten games would have been in some way slightly adventageous had they won their first two conference games, I still don't think the playoff committee is going to reward 2 Big ten losses more greatly than a win against EMU, all other things equal. Accept those other things are not equal.... as ISU-r is already 5-0 and UNI is 0-4. Ill look for your reply on wednesday or thursday when I can log back in.

I don't think you quite understand what I was saying. I wasn't strictly comparing ISU-r and UNI. I wasn't saying UNI should be rewarded for two Big Ten losses. My main point in response to your post was that you were emphasizing having a FBS win as if it was greater than any FCS win that a team could have. I would much rather have a win over Towson, South Dakota State, Eastern Washington, Central Arkansas, Eastern Kentucky, Appalachian State, than a win over Eastern Michigan. My only point in response to you was that Illinois State having an FBS win isn't going to give them benefits over teams that don't.

Think of if Towson and ISU-r finish with the same amount of DI wins. ISU-r's EMU win, IMO, should not hold any strength over Towson's would be two wins over UNH, JMU, ODU, or UD. FBS win doesn't automatically trump a team without one. (AND no I'm not exclusively referring to UNI)

[WrenFGun]

The constant Albany campaigning is amazing to me. 1) look at our "good" loss. 2) look at our statement win ... Over a 1-3 team. Lehigh has a track record of beating expectations, such as at UNI and at Towson. They are 5-0, call it whatever you want, but LU at 10 may prove to be high, it has not yet. Glad we can amaze you.

You are almost in the CAA, so you should start taking the shots. That is what made the Towson win so sweet.

Don't let facts get in the way of reality. Just blame the CAA.

[WrenFGun]

If Montana and Delaware didn't make it with 6 D1 wins and the ability for the NCAA to make more money off them than UNI, UNI isn't getting in either.

+1. By the look of this year, there will be plenty of 7 DI win candidates. UNI has 0% shot at the playoffs.

[Dane96]

The constant Albany campaigning is amazing to me. 1) look at our "good" loss. 2) look at our statement win ... Over a 1-3 team. Lehigh has a track record of beating expectations, such as at UNI and at Towson. They are 5-0, call it whatever you want, but LU at 10 may prove to be high, it has not yet. Glad we can amaze you.

You are almost in the CAA, so you should start taking the shots. That is what made the Towson win so sweet.

But if you do want to compare....MONMOUTH. END OF STORY.

I love Lehigh...but Lehigh is not a Top 10 team. And if they are...then Albany is most certainly a TOP 15 team. That's what polls are...comparisons. Please show me why Lehigh's body of work is better than Albany's including SOS, margin of victory, etc. And I am not talking SOS based on computers...but the eye test.

No one was comparing or campaigning. Danefan, as he points out...simply said Lehigh is not a Top 10 team. You extrapolated from that to suit your disdain that Albany fans have been preaching. It's ironic, and almost hollow, coming from a Lehigh fan because since I was old enough to understand the conferences...the PL was much like the NEC with its top teams garnering little respect because of the rest of its league. Lehigh fans, during the lovely playoff run, were always trumpeting the exploits of their team.

Look in the mirror...simmer on that. Maybe you weren't one of those fans...but those who were...they most certainly were the majority.

Side-by-side...Albany has done more this year than Lehigh. Lehigh is in the polls at the Top 10 spot because of name and past years...YEARS...not this year...play. One can argue placement...but the fact that Lehigh is in the Top 10...and Albany is not even in the poll is a joke. SID's--who do the voting--don't get it.

[BisonBacker]

I don't see a problem with Albany being in the top 15 I have them at 14 in my poll.

[IBleedYellow]

Until it happens it's not worth debating at length but what if UNI beats both SDSU and Illinois St and gets to 6-2 in conference and 6-4 overall? Concievably in that scenario SDSU finishes at 7-4, Illinois St finishes at 8-3, and both are 5-3 in conference with head to head losses to UNI. IMO, you have to take a long hard look at UNI over either of those teams if you're the playoff committee. I'm not saying UNI would/should get in over either but it would definitely be a valid debate. All I'm saying is that their season isn't totally dead yet.
When SDSU beats UNI, then they won't have anything left to talk about, only next year. Get em Rabbits!


(One can dream, right? :D)

[BisonBacker]

When SDSU beats UNI, then they won't have anything left to talk about, only next year. Get em Rabbits!


(One can dream, right? :D)
That may become a reality in short order!!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

But if you do want to compare....MONMOUTH. END OF STORY.

I love Lehigh...but Lehigh is not a Top 10 team. And if they are...then Albany is most certainly a TOP 15 team. That's what polls are...comparisons. Please show me why Lehigh's body of work is better than Albany's including SOS, margin of victory, etc. And I am not talking SOS based on computers...but the eye test.

No one was comparing or campaigning. Danefan, as he points out...simply said Lehigh is not a Top 10 team. You extrapolated from that to suit your disdain that Albany fans have been preaching. It's ironic, and almost hollow, coming from a Lehigh fan because since I was old enough to understand the conferences...the PL was much like the NEC with its top teams garnering little respect because of the rest of its league. Lehigh fans, during the lovely playoff run, were always trumpeting the exploits of their team.

Look in the mirror...simmer on that. Maybe you weren't one of those fans...but those who were...they most certainly were the majority.

Side-by-side...Albany has done more this year than Lehigh. Lehigh is in the polls at the Top 10 spot because of name and past years...YEARS...not this year...play. One can argue placement...but the fact that Lehigh is in the Top 10...and Albany is not even in the poll is a joke. SID's--who do the voting--don't get it.

Maybe Lehigh and Albany will meet in th playoffs? Or perhaps Lehigh will have to take out another power conference team. If the Hawks play the Danes i'm sure payback will be on Coen's mind.

Lehigh has the longest regular season winning streak in FCS and have 5 D1 wins. Their wins over Fordham and MU are solid.

Colvin has been good and Spadola's yards and catches have not dropped off. The offense, overall, is explosive like last year. The trouble has been consistency.

From a phone

[BisonBacker]

When SDSU beats UNI, then they won't have anything left to talk about, only next year. Get em Rabbits!


(One can dream, right? :D)

SDSU has come out of nowhere for me. I knew they had talent but this zenner kid is really impressive. They are so far taking care of business against teams they are supposed to do that with. The problem with their schedule is its so back loaded they are going to have a tough road to go through in the last part of it. Only Western Ill and SIU are teams left on their schedule that they "should" clearly be picked the favorite. USD while they are 1-3 has played respectably in all games and they will be up for SDSU so that will be a tough one for them as well. Should be an interesting end of the schedule for SDSU. I don't think they are going to make the playoffs but they are showing huge improvement.

[BisonFan02]

Albany is in my top 20, but I could see where playing in the NEC could hurt them unfortunately.

[BisonFan02]

Oh, and this is the coaches poll....TL;DR

[UNIFanSince1983]

+1. By the look of this year, there will be plenty of 7 DI win candidates. UNI has 0% shot at the playoffs.

There certainly will be, but I am not sure 0%. There is more than likely less than 1% chance, but I wouldn't put it at 0.

Heck the question may come down to whether the committee values an extra D1 win over a head to head victory especially if it is decisive. If UNI wins out they would have wins over SDSU and Illinois State. If they won these games decisively who knows.

We could have 4 teams with 2 conference losses.
Say NDSU beats both ISU and YSU, but loses to SDSU.
ISU beats YSU. And SDSU and ISU do not play each other.

This leaves UNI, ISU, SDSU, and YSU with 2 loses while NDSU only has 1. You wonder if the committee would pick one or both SDSU and ISU over UNI even though the Panthers would have beat them. Not to mention UNI would be on a 6 game winning streak.

Obviously a long shot, and clearly I am trying to hang on to any last little hope there might be. I am sure anyone whose team is in the same position would do the same.

Edit: I guess looking at the schedule ISU and SDSU would probably both have to lose more conference games for this to work. Maybe it would work better if NDSU was at 0 losses, and YSU was at 1 to NDSU. Then we get ISU and SDSU both with 3 conference losses. That would put SDSU at 7-4, but with 1 more D1 win. Do they get selected because they had an easier OOC?

[Twentysix]

I don't think you quite understand what I was saying. I wasn't strictly comparing ISU-r and UNI. I wasn't saying UNI should be rewarded for two Big Ten losses. My main point in response to your post was that you were emphasizing having a FBS win as if it was greater than any FCS win that a team could have. I would much rather have a win over Towson, South Dakota State, Eastern Washington, Central Arkansas, Eastern Kentucky, Appalachian State, than a win over Eastern Michigan. My only point in response to you was that Illinois State having an FBS win isn't going to give them benefits over teams that don't.

Think of if Towson and ISU-r finish with the same amount of DI wins. ISU-r's EMU win, IMO, should not hold any strength over Towson's would be two wins over UNH, JMU, ODU, or UD. FBS win doesn't automatically trump a team without one. (AND no I'm not exclusively referring to UNI)

I would have to agree with your intial statement and apply it to yourself as well, I do not think you understand what I was saying ;). I read your previous post as if you were answering the questions I had asked, which dealt with the several previous posts regarding UNI vs ISU-r about who makes the playoffs in a head to head choice.

What I bolded is the major seperation point, I was exclusively asking about UNI. In regards to your side tracking post, I do agree with you that this years EMU victory is only on par with a victory over most of the teams you listed above, especially EKU as they share a common opponent and put up a very similar struggle. To suggest its worse than an FCS top 25 road win I don't think I agree with you there, I have underlined this part of your post. I was emphasizing the win over EMU as icing on the cake in the ISU-r 8 win UNI 6 win matchup.

I don't think I said the underlined and bolded part anywhere in any of my posts. Beating NDSU would be a much more impressive win than beating EMU imo. I think you assumed that part and took some leeway that wasn't actually in the post in the least.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=322592509 EMU @ Purdue

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=322452509 EKU @ Purdue

Looks like pretty similar quality to me.

[MTfan4life]

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=322592509 EMU @ Purdue

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=322452509 EKU @ Purdue

Looks like pretty similar quality to me.

Glad we got that cleared up.

Now in response to the end of your post:
Oh the transitive property. 100% reliable. Just see for example here:
App. St @ Chattanooga (http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=322660236)
Chattanooga @ Citadel (http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=322732643)

Looks like very unsimilar quality. The Citadel will just rape Chattanooga. Oh wait, they didn't? But the transitive property? It's not flawless? Goodness, how am I going to rank teams in my poll now?

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

UNI will drop at least a couple more games on their schedule this year.

Southern Illinois-maybe
Illinois State-probable
South Dakota-maybe
SDSU-probable

I dont see any playoffs for them now and in a few weeks it will be a non issue

[Twentysix]

Glad we got that cleared up.

Now in response to the end of your post:
Oh the transitive property. 100% reliable. Just see for example here:
App. St @ Chattanooga (http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=322660236)
Chattanooga @ Citadel (http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=322732643)

Looks like very unsimilar quality. The Citadel will just rape Chattanooga. Oh wait, they didn't? But the transitive property? It's not flawless? Goodness, how am I going to rank teams in my poll now?

Are you saying you have some other evidence that supports your claim that beating EKU is worth more than beating EMU? xlolx

[MTfan4life]

Are you saying you have some other evidence that supports your claim that beating EKU is worth more than beating EMU? xlolx

I was wondering where usual you went. It's nice to have you back. I've noticed that other people have also taken note of your lack of comprehension skills. I'm thinking I'll start a thread to inform everyone else that we need to avoid anything even close to vagueness in our posts in support of posters like you understanding things more clearly. xthumbsupx

[Twentysix]

I was wondering where usual you went. It's nice to have you back. I've noticed that other people have also taken note of your lack of comprehension skills. I'm thinking I'll start a thread to inform everyone else that we need to avoid anything even close to vagueness in our posts in support of posters like you understanding things more clearly. xthumbsupx

A simple no suffices. You clearly do not. xthumbsupx

[MTfan4life]

A simple no suffices. You clearly do not. xthumbsupx

You remind me more and more of MPLS every day. I didn't answer because it has no relevance whatsoever. No FCS team has a win over Eastern Kentucky, so why would it matter if beating them had any difference than beating EMU?

[Twentysix]

You remind me more and more of MPLS every day. I didn't answer because it has no relevance whatsoever. No FCS team has a win over Eastern Kentucky, so why would it matter if beating them had any difference than beating EMU?


I would much rather have a win over Towson, South Dakota State, Eastern Washington, Central Arkansas, Eastern Kentucky, Appalachian State, than a win over Eastern Michigan.

Replying to one of your quotes. You have no problem asking for evidence of something, I am merely doing the same.

I guess in long form I am asking why you would much rather have a win over EKU than EMU when the only comparible data shows they are pretty much equivalent teams.

If you don't want to answer the question thats fine, I simply won't answer any of your questions any longer.

If you hadn't offered up your ASU @ Chatty bull**** I would have let it drop.

Your reasoning interests me, you seem to be an expert when it comes to ranking teams. For the most part I agree with alot of your logic, I just don't see it right now.

[Redwyn]

But if you do want to compare....MONMOUTH. END OF STORY.

I love Lehigh...but Lehigh is not a Top 10 team. And if they are...then Albany is most certainly a TOP 15 team. That's what polls are...comparisons. Please show me why Lehigh's body of work is better than Albany's including SOS, margin of victory, etc. And I am not talking SOS based on computers...but the eye test.

No one was comparing or campaigning. Danefan, as he points out...simply said Lehigh is not a Top 10 team. You extrapolated from that to suit your disdain that Albany fans have been preaching. It's ironic, and almost hollow, coming from a Lehigh fan because since I was old enough to understand the conferences...the PL was much like the NEC with its top teams garnering little respect because of the rest of its league. Lehigh fans, during the lovely playoff run, were always trumpeting the exploits of their team.

Look in the mirror...simmer on that. Maybe you weren't one of those fans...but those who were...they most certainly were the majority.

Side-by-side...Albany has done more this year than Lehigh. Lehigh is in the polls at the Top 10 spot because of name and past years...YEARS...not this year...play. One can argue placement...but the fact that Lehigh is in the Top 10...and Albany is not even in the poll is a joke. SID's--who do the voting--don't get it.

I'm almost afraid to join in this argument about a pretty much worthless poll (coaches or not, it still doesn't really tell me much), but I'll start with this: As I've brought up before, it is a "by definition" biased and worthless argument to compare the score differential between two teams in assessing who is better than another.

It was done with Albany vs. Stony Brook regarding "how badly" we beat Colgate. The same argument is presented here about how badly Monmouth was beaten by Lehigh vs. Albany. How good any of the aforementioned programs are is irrelevant. The argument presented is bluntly wrong. Fact of the matter is, I only want to see the W or the L. That's all the ranking committee initially looks at (I have no information about how they truly rank outside of a clear understanding that W-L record must be of a certain pedigree to even QUALIFY for a bid. Sorry, no close losses), so that's all I want to look at too.

There are a million factors that contribute to why a team wins by a certain margin. Only one of them is team quality. Others include offensive and defensive formations and styles (ie. Triple Option vs. Pro Style). Team chemistry at the week (Week 1 vs. Week 5) also plays a major part. Personal health on gameday (not just physical, mental too) can swing a score significantly. Good teams win games. Winning is a CLEAR indicator of team quality. Unless one wants to make a case that SBU is ABSOLUTELY a better program than Wake Forest and Northern Illinois by simple virtue of having beaten Army by a higher score, they are therefore conceding that there is NO POINT in making an argument about any other program. You can't make an "if p then q" argument, but then say "but sometimes that doesn't work". That's a cop out, and attempting to drive a round peg into a square hole.

Albany is a great, solid football program that deserves a national ranking and national respect. Lehigh is a great solid program that deserves a national ranking and national respect. It is expected that voters will vote based on past performance because most programs retain at least some share of individuals from the prior year, and coaching staff has a lot to do with why a team wins (case and point = New York Jets and Washington Redskins vs. the Pittsburgh Steelers or New England Pats. The latter two may be less talented or have less potential at times, but they're both proven winners with solid traditions. They're better bets for a MAJOR part of the season).

The bickering about individual position is honestly pointless.