Home Field Advantage for AGS Poll Rankings

[HensRock]

I'm looking at the AGS Poll rankings released yesterday and the individual ballots many posted asking for feedback.
I don't understand why so many voters have ODU ranked so high while UNH is so low. The two teams proved themselves practically equal this past Saturday at Old Dominion. Those last 3 words are important and I think many loose sight of that fact.

In my ballot, I ranked UNH 1 spot higher than ODU reasoning that the 2 teams slugged it out for 60 minutes practically equal, yet ODU had the home field advantage. One has to wonder what the result of the game would have been on a neutral field. I got an email from AGS Poll because of my positioning of ODU and UNH to make sure that's what I really intended. I think it makes sense.

Am I the only one who thinks this way?
Why then is ODU SO much higher than UNH in every ballot that was made public?
They should at least be close to each other, IMO.
Why do people rank Towson, yet W&M (who lost to them by 3 at Towson) is no where to be found?
How does Lehigh end up at #13, but Princeton (who they beat by 3 at home) and Liberty (2) can't sniff the Top 25?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Princeton, W&M and Liberty should be ranked. I'm thinking maybe Lehigh, Towson and ODU are a tad high! I'm not picking on these 3 - they are just 3 examples. There are others.
I'm Just trying to shed some realistic light on the poll.

I have found the home field advantage to be a useful tool in evaluating realtive strengths of teams for ranking purposes and I just wanted to share this insight with the group.

Discuss.

[Mattymc727]

I was thinking in the same regards. Although it doesnt bother me, I would think UNH and ODU should be ranke closer, but I still think UNH should be between 20-25, so does ODU deserve to be there too? Its a very weird scenario

[PaladinFan]

I think it is a rational line of thinking.

However, as just an example to throw out there, LSU just beat Auburn at Auburn and dropped in the polls because (I guess) they didn't beat them convincingly enough. If they pollsters will drop you when you win on the road, then it seems logical that they should drop you when you lose on the road as well.

[WrenFGun]

I'm looking at the AGS Poll rankings released yesterday and the individual ballots many posted asking for feedback.
I don't understand why so many voters have ODU ranked so high while UNH is so low. The two teams proved themselves practically equal this past Saturday at Old Dominion. Those last 3 words are important and I think many loose sight of that fact.

In my ballot, I ranked UNH 1 spot higher than ODU reasoning that the 2 teams slugged it out for 60 minutes practically equal, yet ODU had the home field advantage. One has to wonder what the result of the game would have been on a neutral field. I got an email from AGS Poll because of my positioning of ODU and UNH to make sure that's what I really intended. I think it makes sense.

Am I the only one who thinks this way?
Why then is ODU SO much higher than UNH in every ballot that was made public?
They should at least be close to each other, IMO.
Why do people rank Towson, yet W&M (who lost to them by 3 at Towson) is no where to be found?
How does Lehigh end up at #13, but Princeton (who they beat by 3 at home) and Liberty (2) can't sniff the Top 25?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Princeton, W&M and Liberty should be ranked. I'm thinking maybe Lehigh, Towson and ODU are a tad high! I'm not picking on these 3 - they are just 3 examples. There are others.
I'm Just trying to shed some realistic light on the poll.

I have found the home field advantage to be a useful tool in evaluating realtive strengths of teams for ranking purposes and I just wanted to share this insight with the group.

Discuss.

I'm not sure I particularly understand the negative voting as it concerns UNH. The teams they've lost to are now 8-0. They scored 61 points at the #3 team in the nation ... with their backup QB.

I think the defense is as much a scheme issue as a talent issue; that's not the same defense I saw in the first three games and I expect they'll play better against UD. Still, the inability to make adjustments by the coaching staff is infuriating.

Your larger point is correct, though. I don't think enough attention is paid to HF Advantage and wins/losses impacted by that.

[Go Apps]

I'm looking at the AGS Poll rankings released yesterday and the individual ballots many posted asking for feedback.
I don't understand why so many voters have ODU ranked so high while UNH is so low. The two teams proved themselves practically equal this past Saturday at Old Dominion. Those last 3 words are important and I think many loose sight of that fact.

In my ballot, I ranked UNH 1 spot higher than ODU reasoning that the 2 teams slugged it out for 60 minutes practically equal, yet ODU had the home field advantage. One has to wonder what the result of the game would have been on a neutral field. I got an email from AGS Poll because of my positioning of ODU and UNH to make sure that's what I really intended. I think it makes sense.

Am I the only one who thinks this way?
Why then is ODU SO much higher than UNH in every ballot that was made public?
They should at least be close to each other, IMO.
Why do people rank Towson, yet W&M (who lost to them by 3 at Towson) is no where to be found?
How does Lehigh end up at #13, but Princeton (who they beat by 3 at home) and Liberty (2) can't sniff the Top 25?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Princeton, W&M and Liberty should be ranked. I'm thinking maybe Lehigh, Towson and ODU are a tad high! I'm not picking on these 3 - they are just 3 examples. There are others.
I'm Just trying to shed some realistic light on the poll.

I have found the home field advantage to be a useful tool in evaluating realtive strengths of teams for ranking purposes and I just wanted to share this insight with the group.

Discuss.

You are certainly right however I did drop them far - due to having two losses and looking at their schedule this week at Delaware will be a tall task and then at Maine them facing Towson -on the other hand I moved Delaware way up - UNH gets a loss at Delaware and things will be tough moving forward another loss likely leaves them out of the playoffs as I believe only 3 or 4 will get in from the CAA as so many other conferences are solid just a very tough year.

[metternick]

I'm looking at the AGS Poll rankings released yesterday and the individual ballots many posted asking for feedback.
I don't understand why so many voters have ODU ranked so high while UNH is so low. The two teams proved themselves practically equal this past Saturday at Old Dominion. Those last 3 words are important and I think many loose sight of that fact.

In my ballot, I ranked UNH 1 spot higher than ODU reasoning that the 2 teams slugged it out for 60 minutes practically equal, yet ODU had the home field advantage. One has to wonder what the result of the game would have been on a neutral field. I got an email from AGS Poll because of my positioning of ODU and UNH to make sure that's what I really intended. I think it makes sense.

Am I the only one who thinks this way?
Why then is ODU SO much higher than UNH in every ballot that was made public?
They should at least be close to each other, IMO.
Why do people rank Towson, yet W&M (who lost to them by 3 at Towson) is no where to be found?
How does Lehigh end up at #13, but Princeton (who they beat by 3 at home) and Liberty (2) can't sniff the Top 25?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Princeton, W&M and Liberty should be ranked. I'm thinking maybe Lehigh, Towson and ODU are a tad high! I'm not picking on these 3 - they are just 3 examples. There are others.
I'm Just trying to shed some realistic light on the poll.

I have found the home field advantage to be a useful tool in evaluating realtive strengths of teams for ranking purposes and I just wanted to share this insight with the group.

Discuss.

I see your point, but this could become a run away train!

ODU did play at home, and yes that is an advantage. But where do you draw the line in terms of what is an advantage. Did the lame duck team from Norfolk get fair officiating from the CAA officials? Where injury's accounted for in the polls? Which direction was the sun pointing in any said quarter?

Most folks cast votes in polls based for the most part on never seeing most of the other teams. If you saw what Taylor Heinicke did on Saturday, you would have no problem with ODU being number one!

[PAllen]

... The teams they've lost to....

That's the reason right there. We're four games into the season and people are ranking teams with 2 or more losses? Sorry, way too early for that IMHO. Way too many zero and one loss teams out there to choose from. A loss is still a loss. It may not be a bad loss, but you play the schedule your AD gives you, and you either win or you loose. Some losses are better than others, just like some wins are better than others, but I'll take an undefeated PFL team any day over a winless SoCon or CAA team.

[MTfan4life]

I'm looking at the AGS Poll rankings released yesterday and the individual ballots many posted asking for feedback.
I don't understand why so many voters have ODU ranked so high while UNH is so low. The two teams proved themselves practically equal this past Saturday at Old Dominion. Those last 3 words are important and I think many loose sight of that fact.
In my ballot, I ranked UNH 1 spot higher than ODU reasoning that the 2 teams slugged it out for 60 minutes practically equal, yet ODU had the home field advantage.


One game does not make two teams equals. Did you have Colgate ranked one spot in front of Stony Brook? Last season when Youngstown took down NDSU, did that mean they should have been ranked ahead of them? There's going to situations where one teams shows up and one team doesn't. However, that doesn't exactly define those two teams. You're putting too much emphasis on the game-by-game basis. If an underdog does well against a high ranked team, all of a sudden we should rank both teams at the same level? Upsets happen all the time, but they don't necessarily decide which is the better team as a whole.

[DSUrocks07]

UNH moved UP in my ballot from the previous week. But at the end of the day they still gave up a HUGE lead, that speaks a lot about their defense.

[HensRock]

One game does not make two teams equals.

This is true. Of course you have to look at the entire body of work, not just single games.
But in the case of ODU, what other data points do we have to work with? - 3 blowout wins against weak competition tells us nothing.
Same can be said for Lehigh who now has not one, but 2 narrow victories at home against unranked teams.

metternick, I'd like to see what Taylor Heinicke does against a good defense before annointing ODU anywhere near #1. We haven't seen that yet this year, IMHO.

[WrenFGun]

That's the reason right there. We're four games into the season and people are ranking teams with 2 or more losses? Sorry, way too early for that IMHO. Way too many zero and one loss teams out there to choose from. A loss is still a loss. It may not be a bad loss, but you play the schedule your AD gives you, and you either win or you loose. Some losses are better than others, just like some wins are better than others, but I'll take an undefeated PFL team any day over a winless SoCon or CAA team.

We just philosophically disagree on the voting process, which is fine. If you value beating 4 cupcakes over beating 2 teams of quality (I'm not saying that HC/CCSU are quality, I'm just offering a hypothetical) then I think we simply disagree on voting criteria. When I voted, I voted based on quality of wins/bad losses, and really, nothing else. So if you were 4-3 but 3 of your wins were over top 25 opponents, then you were probably pretty high up on my ballot. The amount of losses, unless some are of questionable merit, really doesn't matter to me.

[henfan]

If you saw what Taylor Heinicke did on Saturday, you would have no problem with ODU being number one!

Unfortunately, we also were forced to witness the ODU defense, which was as putrid as Heinicke was terrific.

[UNH72Plus]

How much of the poll voting is affected by past team perfomances? Sam Houston is still highly ranked with a 1-2 record and their only win is a blow out against a 1-3 D-II team. Northern Iowa is top 25 with a 1-3 record with two solid performances against FBS Teams (both losses), an FCS road loss, and one blow-out win against another 1-3 D-II Team.

[MSUBobcat]

Unfortunately, we also were forced to witness the ODU defense, which was as putrid as Heinicke was terrific.

Was thinking the same thing. I didn't see the game, just the stats. Heinicke had ridiculous, video game numbers. But UNH had a balanced offense that seemed to be able to run (389, 7.6 ypc) or pass (336, 8.8 ypa) at will on ODU's defense. Conversely, ODU had zero running game. Again, I didn't see the game so I don't know if this was because UNH was successful limiting the run or because the passing game had free reign to do what it wanted. It does make me question what would happen if they played a team with a good pass defense and had to resort to a running game. To me, superb passing offense, but zero defense does not earn you the #1 ranking. As the saying goes, defense wins championship. NDSU proved it last year and is proving it again this year, therefore, until someone beats them they are #1 in my polls.

[DSUrocks07]

Was thinking the same thing. I didn't see the game, just the stats. Heinicke had ridiculous, video game numbers. But UNH had a balanced offense that seemed to be able to run (389, 7.6 ypc) or pass (336, 8.8 ypa) at will on ODU's defense. Conversely, ODU had zero running game. Again, I didn't see the game so I don't know if this was because UNH was successful limiting the run or because the passing game had free reign to do what it wanted. It does make me question what would happen if they played a team with a good pass defense and had to resort to a running game. To me, superb passing offense, but zero defense does not earn you the #1 ranking. As the saying goes, defense wins championship. NDSU proved it last year and is proving it again this year, therefore, until someone beats them they are #1 in my polls.

You could say that ODU was down so much early on that they were forced to throw the ball the rest of the game just to catch up. Its difficult to have 79 pass attempts in a non-OT game.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Really my thinking came down to the fact that ODU was finally tested and in the face of adversity, ODU overcame it and got the win (and Heinecke had a superhuman performance which helped too) and for that they were rewarded. If UNH had pulled off the upset, they certainly would have been duly rewarded on my ballot. Not necessarily ranking ahead of ODU, but definitely they would have moved up

[WrenFGun]

Really my thinking came down to the fact that ODU was finally tested and in the face of adversity, ODU overcame it and got the win (and Heinecke had a superhuman performance which helped too) and for that they were rewarded. If UNH had pulled off the upset, they certainly would have been duly rewarded on my ballot. Not necessarily ranking ahead of ODU, but definitely they would have moved up

Wait, huh? They wouldn't rank ahead of a team they beat on the road when they also have a better (or at least similar, but probably better) non-conference resume? That doesn't make any sense.

[PAllen]

We just philosophically disagree on the voting process, which is fine. If you value beating 4 cupcakes over beating 2 teams of quality (I'm not saying that HC/CCSU are quality, I'm just offering a hypothetical) then I think we simply disagree on voting criteria. When I voted, I voted based on quality of wins/bad losses, and really, nothing else. So if you were 4-3 but 3 of your wins were over top 25 opponents, then you were probably pretty high up on my ballot. The amount of losses, unless some are of questionable merit, really doesn't matter to me.

Yep, just different philosophies. 2-0 vs top quality teams >> 4-0 vs cupcakes in my book, but 2-2 is not. JMHO.

[HensRock]

Really my thinking came down to the fact that ODU was finally tested and in the face of adversity, ODU overcame it and got the win (and Heinecke had a superhuman performance which helped too) and for that they were rewarded. If UNH had pulled off the upset, they certainly would have been duly rewarded on my ballot. Not necessarily ranking ahead of ODU, but definitely they would have moved up

So you have no shades of gray?
Either ODU is terrific for overcoming adversity, or UNH is terrific for upsetting the "#3" team.
Can't your ballot except the possibility that both teams are simply above average?
And if you wouldn't drop ODU for losing to UNH what in the world would it take for you to actually drop ODU?
Have you looked at the teams that they've played so far?

[frozennorth]

I have ODU 3 spots above UNH


If you saw what Taylor Heinicke did on Saturday, you would have no problem with ODU being number one!

seriously, your team has no business being in the top ten.

[URMite]

This is true. Of course you have to look at the entire body of work, not just single games.
But in the case of ODU, what other data points do we have to work with? - 3 blowout wins against weak competition tells us nothing.
Same can be said for Lehigh who now has not one, but 2 narrow victories at home against unranked teams.

metternick, I'd like to see what Taylor Heinicke does against a good defense before annointing ODU anywhere near #1. We haven't seen that yet this year, IMHO.

I'm kinda hoping you get to this weekend, but we shall see...

[bjtheflamesfan]

So you have no shades of gray?
Either ODU is terrific for overcoming adversity, or UNH is terrific for upsetting the "#3" team.
Can't your ballot except the possibility that both teams are simply above average?
And if you wouldn't drop ODU for losing to UNH what in the world would it take for you to actually drop ODU?
Have you looked at the teams that they've played so far?


I would have dropped ODU with a loss (as I said elsewhere, a loss is a loss whether by 1 or 100). Where both would have ended up would have depended on the teams around them and how they fared as well.

[fatmonarch]

I have ODU 3 spots above UNH



seriously, your team has no business being in the top ten.

Odu maybe has 3 or 4 voters in the AGS poll. Not nearly enough to sway us from out of the top 10 to #3. It's the majority as a whole that think we should be top 10.

Interesting scenario I'm going to bring up. If odu, or any other currently undefeated teams, win out the rest of the regular season, but only each game by 3 or less points regardless of opponent strength, would you put them in your top 3. The team would be 11-0, but would obviously have some poor showings against weaker competition.

[HensRock]

...If odu, or any other currently undefeated teams, win out the rest of the regular season, but only each game by 3 or less points regardless of opponent strength, would you put them in your top 3.

No. Not neccesarily. And neither would the majority of AGS voters - necessarily. It depends on the strength of schedule. I know this because the precedent has been set with San Diego back in 2006. The Toreros played a weak schedule and went into the final game of the regular season with a perfect record of 10-0. AGS poll had them ranked at 19th and that was as high as they got the entire season.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

You could say that ODU was down so much early on that they were forced to throw the ball the rest of the game just to catch up. Its difficult to have 79 pass attempts in a non-OT game.

Compare that with 14 total snaps for URI in the 2nd half against JMU. What a contrast!

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

I have ODU 3 spots above UNH



seriously, your team has no business being in the top ten.

xlolx Zing!

And despite having a great defensive player or two throughout the years, UNH has not been known for their team defense.

[blukeys]

No. Not neccesarily. And neither would the majority of AGS voters - necessarily. It depends on the strength of schedule. I know this because the precedent has been set with San Diego back in 2006. The Toreros played a weak schedule and went into the final game of the regular season with a perfect record of 10-0. AGS poll had them ranked at 19th and that was as high as they got the entire season.

Quite frankly, they did not deserve to be ranked at 19.

[Engineer86]

I see your point, but this could become a run away train!

ODU did play at home, and yes that is an advantage. But where do you draw the line in terms of what is an advantage. Did the lame duck team from Norfolk get fair officiating from the CAA officials? Where injury's accounted for in the polls? Which direction was the sun pointing in any said quarter?

Most folks cast votes in polls based for the most part on never seeing most of the other teams. If you saw what Taylor Heinicke did on Saturday, you would have no problem with ODU being number one!

And if you saw ODU's defense Saturday, you would not rank them, koi will split the difference 10-15 range xsmileyclapx

[Pard4Life]

I don't understand the anti-UNH sentiment either... I have them in my top ten.. I think 8, and ODU is #3.

[HensRock]

I don't think it is so much anti-UNH sentiment as it is overly-PRO-ODU sentiment, IMHO.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

I don't understand the anti-UNH sentiment either... I have them in my top ten.. I think 8, and ODU is #3.

We are 4 games into the season. There is a lot of hyperbole in the polls naturally. As more games are played, it all gets balanced. Sitting at 2-2 alone dropped them regardless of who they played, just like UNI is the 1-3 team no one wants to play right now, but how high can you rank a 1-3 team? W/L is carrying greater weight for many pollsters right now. With a greater body of work, it becomes increasingly easier to analyze where a team truly belongs.