Notre Dame to ACC

[RichH2]

In all sports but football. Another body blow to BE. Reported by ESPN.

[superman7515]

Ouch.

[bluehenbillk]

That's a long laundry list of teams that have left the Big East in the past decade.....

[melloware13]

Because when I think of the Atlantic Coast, the first place that comes to mind (after Miami, Tallahassee, Atlanta, Clemson, Winston-Salem, Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, Blacksburg, Charlottesville, College Park, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and Boston) is South Bend, Indiana.

[ASUMountaineer]

Because when I think of the Atlantic Coast, the first place that comes to mind (after Miami, Tallahassee, Atlanta, Clemson, Winston-Salem, Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, Blacksburg, Charlottesville, College Park, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and Boston) is South Bend, Indiana.

Maybe they found that geography better than the Big East (Wisconsin, Texas, Idaho, and California).

[UNHWILDCATS05]

Because when I think of the Atlantic Coast, the first place that comes to mind (after Miami, Tallahassee, Atlanta, Clemson, Winston-Salem, Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, Blacksburg, Charlottesville, College Park, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and Boston) is South Bend, Indiana.

Funny... I think the same thing when I hear Hockey East... xrotatehx

[MplsBison]

So they wanted to keep bball with Pitt and Syracuse, instead of being with Gtown, Nova, etc? I don't know if I get that move, but it's done.

Football still indy and hockey still in Hockey East.

[Dane96]

The Big East is DONE. To me...this is a massive 180. The remaining schools w/ football will break off.

[danefan]

I wonder how this effects the moves pondered to the CAA?

[WH49er]

They took Appy's spot.

[RichH2]

Not to be discounted moves lax into ACC solidifying it as top lax league. ESPN also notes ND scheduling 5 ACC Fball games.

[Laker]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/chi-sources-notre-dame-to-announce-acc-move-today-20120912,0,4749218.story

I'm glad that they aren't joining the ACC in hockey..................

The article talks about having five football games with the ACC while maintaining indy status. Is this a move towards full membership or just a reason to take them for other sports?

This is a real problem for the Big East. I bet that their new commish is pondering his next move.

[AppAlum2003]

They took Appy's spot.

They won more games last week than your team has played...

[MplsBison]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/chi-sources-notre-dame-to-announce-acc-move-today-20120912,0,4749218.story

I'm glad that they aren't joining the ACC in hockey..................

The article talks about having five football games with the ACC while maintaining indy status. Is this a move towards full membership or just a reason to take them for other sports?

This is a real problem for the Big East. I bet that their new commish is pondering his next move.

ND wants to ensure access to the I-A playoff as well as top bowl games while keeping as much independence as possible. They will always try to advance that agenda, but may one day no longer be able to succeed or at too great a cost.

[MplsBison]

The Big East is DONE. To me...this is a massive 180. The remaining schools w/ football will break off.

Even so, this conf is still pretty good in men's bball:

Marquette - Depaul
Gtown - Nova
Seton Hall - St John's
Providence

Add a few from the A10, badda bing. Big East brand will live on as a bball conf.


The new football conf would take the WAC's slot in tournaments.

UConn - Rutgers
Temple -
Cincy - Louisville
South FL - Central FL
Houston - SMU
Memphis -

Maybe they add JMU and Charlotte? They can call themselves "CUSA+".

[DFW HOYA]

Football not affected. No interest in the CYO league. Add UMass and keep moving along.

[superman7515]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8369070/notre-dame-sports-football-hockey-acc


Along with inviting Notre Dame, the ACC also says it has increased its exit fees for the conference's schools to three times the annual operation budget -- which would currently come to more than $50 million.

[ASUMountaineer]

So they wanted to keep bball with Pitt and Syracuse, instead of being with Gtown, Nova, etc? I don't know if I get that move, but it's done.

Football still indy and hockey still in Hockey East.

By sticking with Pitt and Syracuse they pick up UNC and Duke. Not really difficult to understand. This, of course, overlooks the fact that the Big East is a glorified CUSA now.

[DFW HOYA]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8369070/notre-dame-sports-football-hockey-acc

Big deal. If someone wants to leave, they will.

In contrast, what is the SEC exit fee? $0. (Enough said!)

[Apphole]

Who does the BE add now?

[Reign of Terrier]

But no football according to ESPN.

[DSUrocks07]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8369070/notre-dame-sports-football-hockey-acc

Biggest part of the equation right here. The Big 12 will have to look elsewhere to get to 12 teams now. No FSU, Clemson, Miami, etc. Could the Big East now lose Louisville and Cincy in football? Not only are we talking about the death of WAC football but also the death of Big East football?

Will either conference be desperate enough to extend immediate invites to FCS schools?

[bluehenbillk]

Who does the BE add now?

Drexel & Delaware County Community College are the leading candidates.

[Apphole]

I think this is where the real stratification begins. The hand full of FCS move ups will get grabbed by these other FBS conferences to try to fill the void. The big 4 conferences will be the new "haves" and the SBC, MAC, CUSA ect will be the "have nots." At least "have not's" relative to the "haves." I'm excited to move up. I just hope the fan base doesn't confuse FBS for BCS. There's a larger difference between BCS and non-BCS FBS than FBS and FCS, both in $ and talent. Hence why an ignorant group like Charlotte fans heel like they're big time all of the sudden.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Notre Dame to ACC in all sports but football is a horrible idea. Without FB, all move does is bring crappy hoops and travel headaches to the ACC.

It's telling that all the chatter about this "move" is all about battles between ESPN and NBC for football/basketball games and TV contracts and nothing about better competition for the Irish, the Irish players, or Irish fans.

[aceinthehole]

This is actually something UConn fans have been hoping or fearing.

The ACC is now at 15 for basketball and 14 for football.

Who will the ACC add next to have 16 members for basketball - Georgetown or Villanova who don't play football, or UConn or Rutgers which would make the football side uneven.

[GlassOnion]

This is actually something UConn fans have been hoping or fearing.

The ACC is now at 15 for basketball and 14 for football.

Who will the ACC add next to have 16 members for basketball - Georgetown or Villanova who don't play football, or UConn or Rutgers which would make the football side uneven.

Villanova is my vote. 14 is perfect for football.

[ccd494]

I'm glad that they aren't joining the ACC in hockey..................

I mean, you say that in jest, but the ACC already has BC. Syracuse has a women's team, and they have always been rumored to be considering a men's program.

That's more than the Big East has (Providence, UConn).

[WileECoyote06]

Villanova is my vote. 14 is perfect for football.

I didn't think about this. . do you think Pitt will lobby against Villanova? *scratches chin*

[MplsBison]

Football not affected. No interest in the CYO league. Add UMass and keep moving along.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Navy, Boise and San Diego coming onboard for football only.

Why UMass? Seems like they could do better. Either back to the CUSA well or perhaps a MAC school. Or heck, they're already into California why not San Jose or Fresno? Either of those could join the Big West for rest of sports in a heartbeat.

Or how about Army?

[WileECoyote06]

Notre Dame to ACC in all sports but football is a horrible idea. Without FB, all move does is bring crappy hoops and travel headaches to the ACC.

It's telling that all the chatter about this "move" is all about battles between ESPN and NBC for football/basketball games and TV contracts and nothing about better competition for the Irish, the Irish players, or Irish fans.

Better competition is a secondary criteria. If it was all about competition, the ACC would have grabbed West Virginia.

[MplsBison]

By sticking with Pitt and Syracuse they pick up UNC and Duke. Not really difficult to understand. This, of course, overlooks the fact that the Big East is a glorified CUSA now.

But who cares if we're talking bball?

I would say ND bball fits in a lot better with the Big East Catholics than the ACC.

[Laker]

I mean, you say that in jest, but the ACC already has BC. Syracuse has a women's team, and they have always been rumored to be considering a men's program.

That's more than the Big East has (Providence, UConn).

Yes, being from Minnesota, I did say that in jest. Much of the nation isn't aware of the hockey conferences being different than football.

And no, I'm not happy about the demise of the WCHA, the creation of the Big Ten hockey conference or the NCHC in reaction to it. Or that no one will let UA-Huntsville in to let their team survive. Sometimes I think that college hockey wants to keep the numbers small, like an exclusive club.

Maine people know something about hockey with two national titles. I'm so old I can remember Maine in the College World Series...........xawesomex

[MplsBison]

Villanova is my vote. 14 is perfect for football.

Cuse - BC
Pitt - Maryland
Virginia - VT
Duke - UNC
Wake - NC St
Clem - GT
FSU - Miami

ND - ....


As far as travel partners go, no one in a state that borders the atlantic ocean really makes that much sense as a travel partner for an Indiana school.

What about this: Marquette.

[danefan]

Cuse - BC
Pitt - Maryland
Virginia - VT
Duke - UNC
Wake - NC St
Clem - GT
FSU - Miami

ND - ....


As far as travel partners go, no one in a state that borders the atlantic ocean really makes that much sense as a travel partner for an Indiana school.

What about this: Marquette.

Does anyone at that level really care about travel partners?

[MplsBison]

Notre Dame to ACC in all sports but football is a horrible idea. Without FB, all move does is bring crappy hoops and travel headaches to the ACC.

It's telling that all the chatter about this "move" is all about battles between ESPN and NBC for football/basketball games and TV contracts and nothing about better competition for the Irish, the Irish players, or Irish fans.

It's also being done as an insurance plan for football. You have to think about access to the playoff and top bowl games, as an Irish AD.

[MplsBison]

Does anyone at that level really care about travel partners?

Why not?

Marquette does pretty well in bball, in case you haven't noticed. They get pretty good attendance.

[DFW HOYA]

Reminds me of the college football coach who remarked that in the future there will only be two conferences: ESPN and Fox.

Presumably by then, the SEC will have seceded and started its own semi-pro league.

[danefan]

Why not?

Marquette does pretty well in bball, in case you haven't noticed. They get pretty good attendance.

So did Villanova.

All I'm asking is whether proximity to Notre Dame or any other school at that level matters.

[MplsBison]

So did Villanova.

All I'm asking is whether proximity to Notre Dame or any other school at that level matters.

Marquette averaged 15k in 16 games, Villanova averaged 9k in 15 games. Both are great teams.

Sure, at that level I suppose AD are willing to spend more money to fly men's bball teams all over, maybe even non-commercial flights.

But what about women's bball, volleyball, softball, olympics? Wouldn't it be nice to send a team commercial to Chicago and be able to bus to two league matches for one plane trip? I think most AD would agree.

[GlassOnion]

I didn't think about this. . do you think Pitt will lobby against Villanova? *scratches chin*

I dont think Pitt matters much at this point. Theyve got a couple of years before they've got the political points, and UNC dominates the ACC decision making anyways.

And yes, as someone pointed out before, Nova and ND are perfect matches. And Boston College for that matter.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's also being done as an insurance plan for football. You have to think about access to the playoff and top bowl games, as an Irish AD.

No, it's not. They are still "independents" in football and have the same great(er) access to the bowls than regular ACC members they had before.

In fact, what's really funny is that everyone is talking about Notre Dame's football impacts when the move only barely even involves football. The ACC clearly wants Notre Dame football, but they're not getting it. Not really, anyway. Nobody is talking about Notre Dame's great hoops program because, frankly, it's not that great and it's very far away from North Carolina.

I'll go as far as to say that this move actually helps the Big East. It gets rid of a major headache in terms of "will-they-or-won't-they?" in terms of Irish football. It essentially gets rid of a non-football school, putting more power in the hands of the football schools. (Does anyone actually realize the chances of Villanova going to FBS just went up exponentially?) It's still sprawled out, but it's less of a basketball-driven conference and now more of a football-driven conference, which is exactly what the BE needs to survive.

Mark my words: when all the coaches are talking about football in a non-football conference move, that's not a good sign for the ACC.

[WileECoyote06]

Does anyone at that level really care about travel partners?

When your take from television revenue is greater than most school's entire athletic budget. . travel is secondary. lol

[MplsBison]

No, it's not. They are still "independents" in football and have the same great(er) access to the bowls than regular ACC members they had before.

In fact, what's really funny is that everyone is talking about Notre Dame's football impacts when the move only barely even involves football. The ACC clearly wants Notre Dame football, but they're not getting it. Not really, anyway. Nobody is talking about Notre Dame's great hoops program because, frankly, it's not that great and it's very far away from North Carolina.

I'll go as far as to say that this move actually helps the Big East. It gets rid of a major headache in terms of "will-they-or-won't-they?" in terms of Irish football. It essentially gets rid of a non-football school, putting more power in the hands of the football schools. (Does anyone actually realize the chances of Villanova going to FBS just went up exponentially?) It's still sprawled out, but it's less of a basketball-driven conference and now more of a football-driven conference, which is exactly what the BE needs to survive.

Mark my words: when all the coaches are talking about football in a non-football conference move, that's not a good sign for the ACC.

Yes it is an insurance plan. I don't care if your prejudices against I-A immediately cause a knee-jerk negative pooh-pooh'ing spin of any story involving moves in that division that could ultimately filter down to I-AA in the form of move ups.

ND needs to ensure access to the playoff and to top bowl games. Staying the course as a full independent and Big East affiliate does not accomplish that. The 5 game scheduling agreement and ACC affiliation does accomplish it.

[aceinthehole]

No, it's not. They are still "independents" in football and have the same great(er) access to the bowls than regular ACC members they had before.

In fact, what's really funny is that everyone is talking about Notre Dame's football impacts when the move only barely even involves football. The ACC clearly wants Notre Dame football, but they're not getting it. Not really, anyway. Nobody is talking about Notre Dame's great hoops program because, frankly, it's not that great and it's very far away from North Carolina.

I'll go as far as to say that this move actually helps the Big East. It gets rid of a major headache in terms of "will-they-or-won't-they?" in terms of Irish football. It essentially gets rid of a non-football school, putting more power in the hands of the football schools. (Does anyone actually realize the chances of Villanova going to FBS just went up exponentially?) It's still sprawled out, but it's less of a basketball-driven conference and now more of a football-driven conference, which is exactly what the BE needs to survive.

Mark my words: when all the coaches are talking about football in a non-football conference move, that's not a good sign for the ACC.

LFN - you're right this specific move by ND is more about conference stability and revenues, and doesn't really affect ACC football much.

However, this does not help the Big East one bit. It is further erosion of a once strong conference. The BE is very much C-USA 2.1 and will not be considered a "major football" conference much longer, and that's due to current and/or future defections. Perception is the reality and the Big East is now much closer to MWC than the ACC.

[DFW HOYA]

(Does anyone actually realize the chances of Villanova going to FBS just went up exponentially?)

Not really. The same impediments exist.

[MplsBison]

Not really. The same impediments exist.

Like a little thing called "no stadium".

[MplsBison]

LFN - you're right this specific move by ND is more about conference stability and revenues, and doesn't really affect ACC football much.

However, this does not help the Big East one bit. It is further erosion of a once strong conference. The BE is very much C-USA 2.1 and will not be considered a "major football" conference much longer, and that's due to current and/or future defections. Perception is the reality and the Big East is now much closer to MWC than the ACC.

He was trying to say that ND would have the same or better access to the I-A playoff and bowls than ACC members would have, which of course is bunk.

Else, they wouldn't have made the move.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I'm starting to wish Temple stayed in the A10 for hoops.

[MplsBison]

I'm starting to wish Temple stayed in the A10 for hoops.

Really? Does Notre Dame bball leaving really decimate Big East bball?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

He was trying to say that ND would have the same or better access to the I-A playoff and bowls than ACC members would have, which of course is bunk.

Else, they wouldn't have made the move.

They already HAVE better access as FBS independents, and that continues whether they're in the ACC or the Big East.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not really. The same impediments exist.

Not really. Pitt's AD is gone. Soon, Notre Dame's AD, which was in the cadre of basketball-only schools (essentially), is gone. Which schools which are left would honestly stand in the way of Villanova to FBS? Rutgers? UConn? I don't even think Temple would be opposed.

[HailSzczur]

In theory this could really open some doors for Nova to the ACC..... Will it happen, we will see but here is my logic

No doubt the ACC wants to round its membership off to 16. A non football member makes sense to keep the football side even as well. Enter possible BE candidates for poaching: Nova, Gtown, and St. John's.

St. John's big thing going for it is the NYC market, which is no doubt a HUGE draw for the ACC. If you get St Johns you also make the dream of an ACC tourney in MSG as possibility IMO.

Georgetown brings basketball, and the DC market, but I tend to think that has some overlap with UMD's territory as far as viewer-ship goes. Georgetown has football, but has no desire to progress it any further.

Villanova has the Philly market, a completely untapped market for the ACC. We compete with Temple, but from a basketball perspective I think a Villanova vs Duke/UNC/Pitt/Syracuse game would easily beat a Temple vs UCF/USF/Rutgers/DePaul matchup. As a 16th member of the ACC, the conference would sit at 16 members for all sports, and 14 for football. We have a viable FCS team that has talked about and wanted to move up. Supposed 5-10 years down the line Notre Dame ended the partnership with NBC and decided to join the ACC for football. We would be right there waiting and willing to move up to round the conference off again at 16 members.

.......It's a thought, nothing more. But I hope Fr. Peter and Vince Nicastro are putting what I just said in some sort of proposal for the ACC

[MplsBison]

They already HAVE better access as FBS independents, and that continues whether they're in the ACC or the Big East.

How do you figure?

[MplsBison]

In theory this could really open some doors for Nova to the ACC..... Will it happen, we will see but here is my logic

No doubt the ACC wants to round its membership off to 16. A non football member makes sense to keep the football side even as well. Enter possible BE candidates for poaching: Nova, Gtown, and St. John's.

St. John's big thing going for it is the NYC market, which is no doubt a HUGE draw for the ACC. If you get St Johns you also make the dream of an ACC tourney in MSG as possibility IMO.

Georgetown brings basketball, and the DC market, but I tend to think that has some overlap with UMD's territory as far as viewer-ship goes. Georgetown has football, but has no desire to progress it any further.

Villanova has the Philly market, a completely untapped market for the ACC. We compete with Temple, but from a basketball perspective I think a Villanova vs Duke/UNC/Pitt/Syracuse game would easily beat a Temple vs UCF/USF/Rutgers/DePaul matchup. As a 16th member of the ACC, the conference would sit at 16 members for all sports, and 14 for football. We have a viable FCS team that has talked about and wanted to move up. Supposed 5-10 years down the line Notre Dame ended the partnership with NBC and decided to join the ACC for football. We would be right there waiting and willing to move up to round the conference off again at 16 members.

.......It's a thought, nothing more. But I hope Fr. Peter and Vince Nicastro are putting what I just said in some sort of proposal for the ACC

Nothing wrong that you said here. And Nova vs. those big ACC names is a national TV college bball game.

But that said, how does a Nova-Notre Dame travel partnership work for soccer, volleyball, etc.? I don't think ACC athletic directors are going to want to send their non-revenue teams to greater Chicago area for only one match. They'd have to try scheduling non-conference matches to coincide. Not impossible.

[Cocky]

ACC admits it a low level BCS conference allowing a partial member.

[HailSzczur]

Nothing wrong that you said here. And Nova vs. those big ACC names is a national TV college bball game.

But that said, how does a Nova-Notre Dame travel partnership work for soccer, volleyball, etc.? I don't think ACC athletic directors are going to want to send their non-revenue teams to greater Chicago area for only one match. They'd have to try scheduling non-conference matches to coincide. Not impossible.

Then we're pretty much talking adding Marquette or Depaul, assuming they do another BE raid.

[MplsBison]

Then we're pretty much talking adding Marquette or Depaul, assuming they do another BE raid.

I proposed Marquette. 15k average attendance over 16 games. 180 mi. by bus from Notre Dame.

Have to think Marquette vs. the ACC big names is also national TV college bball.

[HailSzczur]

I proposed Marquette. 15k average attendance over 16 games. 180 mi. by bus from Notre Dame.

Have to think Marquette vs. the ACC big names is also national TV college bball.

Marquette would make sense from that stand point. Our main selling points I guess are 1. the safety net if ND ever decided it was done as an independent and 2. wrapping up one of the few untapped East Coast markets by the ACC

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How do you figure?

Easy. Notre Dame goes 6-6, Duke goes 6-6. There is one bowl left. Who gets it?

Or another. Notre Dame and Duke go 11-1. Who goes to the plus-one? Notre Dame gets in because they're Notre Dame.

[MplsBison]

Easy. Notre Dame goes 6-6, Duke goes 6-6. There is one bowl left. Who gets it?

Or another. Notre Dame and Duke go 11-1. Who goes to the plus-one? Notre Dame gets in because they're Notre Dame.

The committee decides who plays in the semi-final games of the playoff. I don't see an 11-1 Notre Dame getting in unless everyone in the nation has at least one loss.

The winner of the ACC championship game, if they have only one loss - regardless of who it is, would get higher consider at 12-1 than Notre Dame because they had to play an extra game and win the championship. That doesn't help Notre Dame anyway, unless they decide to fully join the ACC - which this relationship allows. Their previous situation did not allow that.

As for the 6-6 scenario, Notre Dame had access to the Big East bowls and now they'll have access to the ACC bowls, which are better. So again they've improved their situation.

[DFW HOYA]

Not really. Pitt's AD is gone. Soon, Notre Dame's AD, which was in the cadre of basketball-only schools (essentially), is gone. Which schools which are left would honestly stand in the way of Villanova to FBS? Rutgers? UConn? I don't even think Temple would be opposed.

They still have no place to play. Temple's deal with the Linc is rock-solid. Penn won't release Franklin Field. Conferences will not accept home games in Chester. What, play four games on the road and see if CBP is available when the Phils are out of the playoffs?

The great irony of all this: Villanova has the scholarships but no available city facilities. Georgetown doesn't have the scholarships but has RFK and FedEx Field vacant on Saturdays. And neither are likely to see that change.

Who knows, Fordham could go I-A before Villanova...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

They still have no place to play. Temple's deal with the Linc is rock-solid. Penn won't release Franklin Field. Conferences will not accept home games in Chester. What, play four games on the road and see if CBP is available when the Phils are out of the playoffs?

The great irony of all this: Villanova has the scholarships but no available city facilities. Georgetown doesn't have the scholarships but has RFK and FedEx Field vacant on Saturdays. And neither are likely to see that change.

Two or three special-event games in Chester, two or three special-event games in CBP, perhaps a "home" game in the Linc every year in November against Temple... it's workable if folks are willing to try. Don't discount how more college football in Philly would boost the value of both Temple and Villanova at the same time.

[ASUMountaineer]

But who cares if we're talking bball?

I would say ND bball fits in a lot better with the Big East Catholics than the ACC.

You brought it up. Obviously you're talking bball because ND football isn't following Pitt and Cuse football. You need to make a consistent argument Mpls...you're slipping.

ND bball fits better with Catholic bball, but their bottom line fits much better with the ACC. xcrazyx

[ASUMountaineer]

ACC admits it a low level BCS conference allowing a partial member.

Was that in question?

[GannonFan]

Two or three special-event games in Chester, two or three special-event games in CBP, perhaps a "home" game in the Linc every year in November against Temple... it's workable if folks are willing to try. Don't discount how more college football in Philly would boost the value of both Temple and Villanova at the same time.

Chester will still only be a 30k seat, max stadium, assuming someone wants to pay the at least $60M to bump it from 18k to 30k (and the Union aren't going to be doing that anytime soon). There's never been a football game at CBP and certainly one can't happen during the season. Seeing how the World Series, with the extra round added now, will run to early November (Nov 1 first this), that means CBP is out of play until November every year. Oh, and the other little nugget - Temple is the only school that has any leverage with the Eagles to play games at the Linc. So either Temple gives up home games to nova (since there won't be additional games added to the Linc), or the Linc is not available. And if the idea is that the ACC invites nova, why would Temple, stuck in the Big East, give up dates to a team in a different conference? Right now there's no indication they would ever do that if they were both in the Big East, there's zero chance it would happen if they were in different conferences.

So basically, yes, the same impediments remain - no stadium and no one willing to pony up the money to build one for nova (assuming they could even find a place to build one). nova basketball could conceivably go to the ACC, but football won't be a part of it.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Really? Does Notre Dame bball leaving really decimate Big East bball?

We gave up a lot of old, local and regional rivals, for a conference that won't be close to what it is this year. By the time we start our first season in hoops Syracuse and Pitt will already be gone and Louisville, UCONN and Cincy might have one foot out the door. Trust me, Rutgers, Providence, Seton Hall, heck even Marquette are not generating much, if any, more interest than SBU, GWU, Umass etc.

[GannonFan]

You brought it up. Obviously you're talking bball because ND football isn't following Pitt and Cuse football. You need to make a consistent argument Mpls...you're slipping.

ND bball fits better with Catholic bball, but their bottom line fits much better with the ACC. xcrazyx

Eh, BC is in the ACC and they're a Catholic school. I'm sure Notre Dame think they fit better in the best basketball conference in the land (as the Big East was before all the defections happened) than they are trying to match religious affiliation.

[GannonFan]

We gave up a lot of old, local and regional rivals, for a conference that won't be close to what it is this year. By the time we there in hoops Syracuse and Pitt will already be gone and Louisville, UCONN and Cincy might have one foot out the door. Trust me, Rutgers, Providence, Seton Hall, heck even Marquette isn't generating much more interest that SBU, GWU, Umass etc.


You basically traded St. Joes and LaSalle for nova.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

You basically traded St. Joes and LaSalle for nova.

But we play Villanova anyway. Now that we're in the BE we MIGHT play them twice a year.

I'm at work so my typing isn't the best...

[MplsBison]

You brought it up. Obviously you're talking bball because ND football isn't following Pitt and Cuse football. You need to make a consistent argument Mpls...you're slipping.

ND bball fits better with Catholic bball, but their bottom line fits much better with the ACC. xcrazyx

I asked why would they follow Pitt and Cuse instead of staying with Gtown and Nova. I was talking about bball because ND football is not following Pitt and Cuse, that was clear.

You replied that Big East is glorified CUSA, which can obviously only apply to the football members as the catholic bball members were not CUSA upgrades.


So no you're agreeing that ND bball fits better with catholic bball, which was my original point. Thanks

[Lehigh Football Nation]

And if the idea is that the ACC invites nova, why would Temple, stuck in the Big East, give up dates to a team in a different conference?

This type of thing only works with Temple and Villanova in the Big East together, and I would argue they have a very big interest - especially now - to make things work.

And nobody yet is proposing Temple and Nova sharing home games except perhaps a "Mayor's Cup" every year, alternating home jerseys. The Linc's turf couldn't support it anyway.

[MplsBison]

Chester will still only be a 30k seat, max stadium, assuming someone wants to pay the at least $60M to bump it from 18k to 30k (and the Union aren't going to be doing that anytime soon). There's never been a football game at CBP and certainly one can't happen during the season. Seeing how the World Series, with the extra round added now, will run to early November (Nov 1 first this), that means CBP is out of play until November every year. Oh, and the other little nugget - Temple is the only school that has any leverage with the Eagles to play games at the Linc. So either Temple gives up home games to nova (since there won't be additional games added to the Linc), or the Linc is not available. And if the idea is that the ACC invites nova, why would Temple, stuck in the Big East, give up dates to a team in a different conference? Right now there's no indication they would ever do that if they were both in the Big East, there's zero chance it would happen if they were in different conferences.

So basically, yes, the same impediments remain - no stadium and no one willing to pony up the money to build one for nova (assuming they could even find a place to build one). nova basketball could conceivably go to the ACC, but football won't be a part of it.

Not to mention that they can't play games at Penn and they also can't upgrade their on campus stadium to 25-30k.

They're basically screwed unless they can somehow buy into the Linc.

[superman7515]

Who said they need to upgrade the stadium in Chester to play there because it isn't big enough? Pitt (gone), West Virginia (gone), and Rutgers (looking to leave). They'll get over it if the other schools want it to happen.

[MplsBison]

We gave up a lot of old, local and regional rivals, for a conference that won't be close to what it is this year. By the time we start our first season in hoops Syracuse and Pitt will already be gone and Louisville, UCONN and Cincy might have one foot out the door. Trust me, Rutgers, Providence, Seton Hall, heck even Marquette are not generating much, if any, more interest than SBU, GWU, Umass etc.

Now I get what you mean, in regards to home attendance draws for regular season games.

I'm still thinking that the Big East gets more at-large bids to the tournament than the A10, which is ultimately just as valuable to Temple.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Who said they need to upgrade the stadium in Chester to play there because it isn't big enough? Pitt (gone), West Virginia (gone), and Rutgers (looking to leave). They'll get over it if the other schools want it to happen.

+1. And where, exactly is Rutgers going to go? The ACC ain't calling. They won't be able to fool the Big 10 that they can deliver NYC. C-USA? Please. Big East football is their future, whether they like it or not.

[MplsBison]

Who said they need to upgrade the stadium in Chester to play there because it isn't big enough? Pitt (gone), West Virginia (gone), and Rutgers (looking to leave). They'll get over it if the other schools want it to happen.

15-18k average attendance works for the MAC.

Big East schools won't have it and CUSA might not even agree to it.

[MplsBison]

Eh, BC is in the ACC and they're a Catholic school. I'm sure Notre Dame think they fit better in the best basketball conference in the land (as the Big East was before all the defections happened) than they are trying to match religious affiliation.

I'm talking about playing traditional opponents in the catholic Northeast.

How many catholics in traditional ACC country? How many non-catholics are as passionate about ND?

[MplsBison]

But we play Villanova anyway. Now that we're in the BE we MIGHT play them twice a year.

I'm at work so my typing isn't the best...

So UConn, Rutgers, Louisville, Cincy, SJU, Seton Hall, Providence and Gtown won't draw in Temple? Why not?

[MplsBison]

This type of thing only works with Temple and Villanova in the Big East together, and I would argue they have a very big interest - especially now - to make things work.

And nobody yet is proposing Temple and Nova sharing home games except perhaps a "Mayor's Cup" every year, alternating home jerseys. The Linc's turf couldn't support it anyway.

I've always thought it makes great sense to have college football at the Linc every Saturday. But those in the know say otherwise...

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

So UConn, Rutgers, Louisville, Cincy, SJU, Seton Hall, Providence and Gtown won't draw in Temple? Why not?

Louisville, Cincy and Georgetown will absolutely draw. With that said, there's a reason why Villanova uses their 6k seat ski lodge for 80% of their big east games. The Philly market cares about college hoops but its still finicky. We'll do fine with the bigger names but the lesser opponents won't draw more than 7k at the Liacouras Center.

[ASUMountaineer]

I asked why would they follow Pitt and Cuse instead of staying with Gtown and Nova. I was talking about bball because ND football is not following Pitt and Cuse, that was clear.

You replied that Big East is glorified CUSA, which can obviously only apply to the football members as the catholic bball members were not CUSA upgrades.


So no you're agreeing that ND bball fits better with catholic bball, which was my original point. Thanks

xlolx You brought up basketball and I answered that UNC/Duke is clearly an upgrade over any other Big East teams. Your catholic bball point is ridiculous because the Big East is consumed with non-catholic bball teams now as well. This move is not about football, and ACC basketball is clearly better than Big East basketball now.

Because the Big East is full of former CUSA members, it is a glorified CUSA. If the Big East didn't have SMU, UCF, Memphis, Rutgers, UConn, Houston, etc. I could see your point. While ND would fit better in a league of all catholic bball schools, no such league exists anymore. So, it's very clear why ND would follow Pitt and 'Cuse instead of G'town and 'Nova. Therefore, your question was a stupid one. Thanks.

[GannonFan]

Who said they need to upgrade the stadium in Chester to play there because it isn't big enough? Pitt (gone), West Virginia (gone), and Rutgers (looking to leave). They'll get over it if the other schools want it to happen.


Because long term you can't have a league that has teams that can't fill even an 18k seat stadium. FBS football, at the highest levels is about money - and there's no way that league makes enough money to be a big time FBS conference. And of course, at this point, no one is even saying the Big East is a big time FBS football conference anymore anyway. So yes, the stadium in Chester will work. Now the question is whether nova thinks playing in a MAC-like conference would be worth the jump to FBS. They hemmed and hawed about moving to the Big East when that was a BCS conference - I can't imagine they are readying the press releases to jump up and join the MAC East.

[GannonFan]

I'm talking about playing traditional opponents in the catholic Northeast.

How many catholics in traditional ACC country? How many non-catholics are as passionate about ND?

How many "traditional" opponents does Notre Dame even have in the catholic Northeast? They didn't play most of those schools until they went into the Big East 10-15 years ago. You might say BC, but they're already in the ACC. ND isn't leaving any real long time opponents by getting out of the Big East.

[MplsBison]

How many "traditional" opponents does Notre Dame even have in the catholic Northeast? They didn't play most of those schools until they went into the Big East 10-15 years ago. You might say BC, but they're already in the ACC. ND isn't leaving any real long time opponents by getting out of the Big East.

Sorry, you're right.

What I meant was simply that what's sometimes referred to as the catholic bball schools in the Big East, the group that ND was supposedly supposed to side with had the 16 team Big East split into football and non football (talking about Marquette, Depaul, Gtown, Nova, Prov, SJU and SH). Obviously discounting Marq and DePaul. Then I would've thought it'd be more important for ND's bball team to maintain a regular season, consistent presence in the NE where the Catholic base is by playing at Gtown, Nova, Prov, SJU and SH, than to be playing games in the mid-Atlantic/south east where protestants and I'd even venture non-Christians and seculars are more prevalent than Catholics.

Obviously this relationship hasn't been around for a really long time, but long enough to establish a strong presence in the NE and be affiliated with the Catholics rather than the football side of the Big East.


Yes they will have games at BC. But I think my point still stands.


Obviously, in the end, the insurance policy for football ruled the day. ND football is taken care of now if the worst case scenarios should unfold. If their access to the post season starts crumbling or they're somehow locked out completely, they can lift up their other leg and put both feet firmly in the ACC in a very quick order.

[MplsBison]

xlolx You brought up basketball and I answered that UNC/Duke is clearly an upgrade over any other Big East teams. Your catholic bball point is ridiculous because the Big East is consumed with non-catholic bball teams now as well. This move is not about football, and ACC basketball is clearly better than Big East basketball now.

Because the Big East is full of former CUSA members, it is a glorified CUSA. If the Big East didn't have SMU, UCF, Memphis, Rutgers, UConn, Houston, etc. I could see your point. While ND would fit better in a league of all catholic bball schools, no such league exists anymore. So, it's very clear why ND would follow Pitt and 'Cuse instead of G'town and 'Nova. Therefore, your question was a stupid one. Thanks.

UNC and Duke are no upgrade over the Catholic bball schools in the Big East. And I'm considering that as a separate sub-group of the conference, which was widely accepted in the event that the Big East split into football and non-football (ND was to side with the non-football, Catholic schools). If you're talking on the court, then Gtown and Nova have just as strong as programs as UNC and Duke. If you're talking market then most of the Catholics are in larger markets. So either way you're incorrect.


Then to start talking about CUSA football upgrades is just completely out of context.

I think the move was an insurance policy for the football team. Allow one foot in the ACC door and make it easy for the other foot to come along in case of emergency. The bball move was not necessarily a downgrade, but not a wash in all senses (which I've now elaborated on). If they want to maintain a strong presence in the NE other than Boston, upstate NY or western Penn, they'll have to schedule it non-conference.

[GannonFan]

UNC and Duke are no upgrade over the Catholic bball schools in the Big East. And I'm considering that as a separate sub-group of the conference, which was widely accepted in the event that the Big East split into football and non-football (ND was to side with the non-football, Catholic schools). If you're talking on the court, then Gtown and Nova have just as strong as programs as UNC and Duke. If you're talking market then most of the Catholics are in larger markets. So either way you're incorrect.


Then to start talking about CUSA football upgrades is just completely out of context.

I think the move was an insurance policy for the football team. Allow one foot in the ACC door and make it easy for the other foot to come along in case of emergency. The bball move was not necessarily a downgrade, but not a wash in all senses (which I've now elaborated on). If they want to maintain a strong presence in the NE other than Boston, upstate NY or western Penn, they'll have to schedule it non-conference.

While I root for the Big 5 schools in Philly, by what measure are Gtown and nova just as strong programs as UNC and Duke? How many national titles have Gtown and nova won since 1985? Let alone Final Four appearances and deep runs in the tourney.

[MplsBison]

While I root for the Big 5 schools in Philly, by what measure are Gtown and nova just as strong programs as UNC and Duke? How many national titles have Gtown and nova won since 1985? Let alone Final Four appearances and deep runs in the tourney.

If national titles, final fours and "deep" (is that elite eight?) runs are the only criteria, then they're not. Those aren't the only criteria.

[MplsBison]

Great info here: http://espn.go.com/blog/notre-dame-football/post/_/id/8961/acc-has-no-plans-to-add-16th-team

Couple important points:


- Swofford said the league has no plans to add a 16th member at this time. The big reason is because Notre Dame will not join as a football member. Adding a 16th team would throw off the football divisions; the ACC has no divisions in basketball.

- Notre Dame plans on implementing its ACC foootball scheduling partnership in 2014, with five games against ACC schools per season. The current plan is to have Notre Dame play every ACC school at least once in a three-year period. The Irish already have future scheduling arrangements with Boston College, Pittsburgh, Miami, Wake Forest and Syracuse. Swofford and Swarbrick said they would evaluate to see if maintaining those contracts on the years they are currently scheduled would work best out of the gate. In addition, Swarbrick would not say if the annual series with Boston College would end.

- This new partnership also means Notre Dame joins the ACC bowl lineup. Notre Dame would be an option as an opponent in the Orange Bowl. Beyond that, Notre Dame would be a potential team to play in any of the ACC contracted bowls. Their overall record would have to be better than, equal to or within one win of ACC teams available to be selected. Notre Dame would share in the revenues if selected to any of those bowls, and get an expenses allowance. If Notre Dame is picked for a BCS game, it would keep its revenues from that appearance. This bowl partnership would begin for the 2014 season.

So this proves I was correct, regarding the bowl games.

But also seems like they won't go for a 16th. Do you believe them?

[GannonFan]

If national titles, final fours and "deep" (is that elite eight?) runs are the only criteria, then they're not. Those aren't the only criteria.

Yes, you're right. There are other criteria. However, those other criteria's don't matter. Just win baby - Al Davis was a prophet in that regard.

[MplsBison]

Yes, you're right. There are other criteria. However, those other criteria's don't matter. Just win baby - Al Davis was a prophet in that regard.

Gtown and Nova win plenty of games every regular season.

[MplsBison]

More commentary: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8370141/college-football-notre-dame-fighting-irish-football-maintains-independence-move-acc-name-only

I never knew that they were blackballed from the Big Ten. That must be why they'll die before joining or helping the conference in any way, now. For example, ridiculously joining Hockey East instead of joining the Big Ten hockey conference.

[Laker]

There is an excellent book- Shake Down the Thunder: The Creation of Notre Dame Football by Murray A. Sperber that tells about the first half century of football at Notre Dame. They tried several times to get into the Big Ten but were blocked by Michigan. Then when the Big Ten wanted them Notre Dame didn't want them.

[HailSzczur]

Great info here: http://espn.go.com/blog/notre-dame-football/post/_/id/8961/acc-has-no-plans-to-add-16th-team

Couple important points:



So this proves I was correct, regarding the bowl games.

But also seems like they won't go for a 16th. Do you believe them?

I don't believe them. There will be a 16th team soon, I'm almost sure of it

[MplsBison]

I don't believe them. There will be a 16th team soon, I'm almost sure of it

Well adding a 16th member as a non-football playing member certain makes sense to me, but only if it's as a travel partner for ND.

[ASUMountaineer]

UNC and Duke are no upgrade over the Catholic bball schools in the Big East. And I'm considering that as a separate sub-group of the conference, which was widely accepted in the event that the Big East split into football and non-football (ND was to side with the non-football, Catholic schools). If you're talking on the court, then Gtown and Nova have just as strong as programs as UNC and Duke. If you're talking market then most of the Catholics are in larger markets. So either way you're incorrect.


Then to start talking about CUSA football upgrades is just completely out of context.

I think the move was an insurance policy for the football team. Allow one foot in the ACC door and make it easy for the other foot to come along in case of emergency. The bball move was not necessarily a downgrade, but not a wash in all senses (which I've now elaborated on). If they want to maintain a strong presence in the NE other than Boston, upstate NY or western Penn, they'll have to schedule it non-conference.

So, you are arguing that ND should have stayed in the Big East to be aligned with catholic schools in the possible event the Big East eventually split to become an all-basketball conference. Wow!

I should have stopped reading at this point:


If you're talking on the court, then Gtown and Nova have just as strong as programs as UNC and Duke.

UNC/Duke: 9 championships
Nova/Gtown: 2 championships

Come on MLPS, are you even trying to troll well or are you throwing in John Thompson's towel?

I didn't mention market because market is irrelevant when it comes to relevant conferences (see the SEC, ACC).

The CUSA additions are relevant because they will be playing basketball as well. And that waters down the conference. Clearly, the ACC is a better and more stable conference than the Big East.

[citdog]

glad to hear that the fighting doberman pincher genetalia are finally playing somebody