App's Chances against NC State.

[StillJonesing]

I thought we got 5k? Where'd you see that?

I think we got 5k

[Mr. C]

What ever, the ACC is a different animal now than it was 5-10 years ago, and Wake is a much better program despite what the record reflects. That 4-7 ranked them #48 in one of the computer polls I noticed because they play strong teams, and Grobe is a damn good coach and Wake gets no respect, they would roll you guys these days and you know it, and luckly for them they have gotten us in our down times and not when we had it really rolling.

Regardless of what you say about us being a sucky D1a, we are a D1a :) remember I can watch my team play West Virginia and Virginia at HOME this season. UNC and NCSU at HOME next season and Virginia Tech 4 times in the next 8 years at home with 50k of my friends and that we have actually beat all those teams before. Enjoy your barn burner with Mars Hill. Man now that must suck.:thumbsup:
The ACC is only better because it has expanded with some better football schools, like Florida State and Miami. The old, traditional ACC teams really haven't improved their programs much.

The truth is that Wake Forest is ducking Appalachian State, which pursues games with the Demonized Deacons every year and is turned down. Jim Grobe says he doesn't want to play ASU because they are too good. He was the one who wanted to end the series, despite the financial advantages it offered his program (traditionally the largest home crowds of the year at Groves Stadium). The Deacs can play North Carolina A&T, or Liberty, but they are worried about losing to App. Yes, Jim Grobe is a good coach and yes, the Wake program is vastly improved over where it was with Jim Caldwell. But the Deacs have still made it clear they want NO part of the Mountaineers.

The Mars Hill shot is a low blow. App State has struggled to find teams to play it for the past three years, ever since East Tennessee State dropped football and created another non-conference game to be filled. ASU has only played two other Division II schools in the past 15 years or so (one on account of a cancelled game with I-A Troy State because of 9-11). Mars Hill is also the alma mater of the new ASU chancellor, Dr. Kenneth Peacock.

[GeauxColonels]

What ever, the ACC is a different animal now than it was 5-10 years ago, and Wake is a much better program despite what the record reflects. That 4-7 ranked them #48 in one of the computer polls I noticed because they play strong teams, and Grobe is a damn good coach and Wake gets no respect, they would roll you guys these days and you know it, and luckly for them they have gotten us in our down times and not when we had it really rolling.

Regardless of what you say about us being a sucky D1a, we are a D1a :) remember I can watch my team play West Virginia and Virginia at HOME this season. UNC and NCSU at HOME next season and Virginia Tech 4 times in the next 8 years at home with 50k of my friends and that we have actually beat all those teams before. Enjoy your barn burner with Mars Hill. Man now that must suck.:thumbsup:
So you're going to watch your team get smoked by 30 at home to West Virginia and beaten by a mediocre Virginia team this year, watch your boys struggle to keep up with UNC and NCSU next year and have 50% of the years with a :asswhip: to Virginia Tech at home and :anim_chai to VaTech on the road the other 50% of the time? Hell, sign me up! What am I doing watching I-AA teams playing for an NCAA title?!xidiotx xidiotx :bang:

[StillJonesing]

The ACC is only better because it has expanded with some better football schools, like Florida State and Miami. The old, traditional ACC teams really haven't improved their programs much..

Have you seen what teams like NC State and UVA have done with their facilities in the last 5 years??

You're crazy if you think Wake isn't a better team these days and the ACC isn't stronger... 4-7 is not a reflection of there talent..yeah they are really dodging you guys, that's why they replaced you with Purdue, Boston College and Nebraska in the OOC the last few years. If you notice they same time they dropped App pretty much the same time they added ECU these last 5 years. Just another direction.

The last 5 years we have played "Weak" Forest, they haven't been weak lots of good teams have been defeated by Wake.

2005 4-7 beat NCSU (7-5), Clemson (8-4)
2004 4-7 beat Boston College (9-3)
2003 5-7 beat B. College (8-5) NCSU (8-5) Clemson (9-4)
2002 7-6 beat Purdue(7-6) Oregon (7-6) Georgia Tech (7-6)
2001 6-5 beat UNC (8-5) ECU (6-6) Virginia (5-7)

They didn't beat teams like that when you guys beat them. Heck they only won 3 games the best years you beat them and weren't against teams like they have beat in the last 5 or against the same SOS.

[StillJonesing]

So you're going to watch your team get smoked by 30 at home to West Virginia and beaten by a mediocre Virginia team this year, watch your boys struggle to keep up with UNC and NCSU next year and have 50% of the years with a :asswhip: to Virginia Tech at home and :anim_chai to VaTech on the road the other 50% of the time? Hell, sign me up! What am I doing watching I-AA teams playing for an NCAA title?!xidiotx xidiotx :bang:

Hmmm we lost by 15-20 to top 5 West Virginia (Sugar Bowl champ) in Morgantown last year.

We have beaten plenty of power conference teams in the past ....more than any non BCS in the last 10-15 years. We should be fine in the next 10 years.

[AppGuy04]

Have you seen what teams like NC State and UVA have done with their facilities in the last 5 years??

You're crazy if you think Wake isn't a better team these days and the ACC isn't stronger... 4-7 is not a reflection of there talent..yeah they are really dodging you guys, that's why they replaced you with Purdue, Boston Colelge and Nebraska in the OOC the last few years. If you notice they same time they dropped App pretty much the same time they added ECU these last 5 years, and we bought the rest of the series out to add home and home games with UNC and NCSU.

The last 5 years we have played "Weak" Forest, they haven't been weak lots of good teams have been defeated by Wake.

2005 4-7 beat NCSU (7-5), Clemson (8-4)
2004 4-7 beat Boston College (9-3)
2003 5-7 beat B. College (8-5) NCSU (8-5) Clemson (9-4)
2002 7-6 beat Purdue(7-6) Oregon (7-6) Georgia Tech (7-6)
2001 6-5 beat UNC (8-5) ECU (6-6) Virginia (5-7)

They didn't beat teams like that when you guys beat them. Heck they only won 3 games the best years you beat them and weren't against teams like they have beat in the last 5.

Actually, that does show that they are dodging. It's not acceptable for a I-A team to lose to a I-AA team, but if they play the likes of BC, Nebraska, etc, they are expected to lose.

[StillJonesing]

Actually, that does show that they are dodging. It's not acceptable for a I-A team to lose to a I-AA team, but if they play the likes of BC, Nebraska, etc, they are expected to lose.


Their spread @ Nebraska was less than a TD last year I believe.

[AppGuy04]

Their spread @ Nebraska was less than a TD last year I believe.

I'm not talking about spread, I said win vs loss, read and comprehend please. And by the way, we aren't exactly talking top 5 perennially Nebraska anymore. My simple point is, if a I-A loses to a I-AA, the fan will not like that at all, but if they don't schedule a I-AA, then they don't have to worry about that, hence why teams like ECU and Wake Forest don't, they have enough problems, losing to a I-AA would be an even further setback

[89Hen]

The ACC is only better because it has expanded with some better football schools, like Florida State and Miami. The old, traditional ACC teams really haven't improved their programs much.
While I agree that the increase in overall quality of the ACC was greatly due to the choice of teams they expanded with, I'm not sure you can say that the original ACC teams haven't improved. IMO Maryland, NCSt and Virginia are all better programs today then they were prior to FSU joining the ACC. Again, you can probably give FSU, VT and Miami a lot of the credit for that too as they have made the ACC a respectible football name. :twocents:

[SoCon48]

You're crazy if you think Wake isn't a better team these days and the ACC isn't stronger... 4-7 is not a reflection of there talent..yeah they are really dodging you guys, that's why they replaced you with Purdue, Boston College and Nebraska in the OOC the last few years. If you notice they same time they dropped App pretty much the same time they added ECU these last 5 years. Just another direction.

The last 5 years we have played "Weak" Forest, they haven't been weak lots of good teams have been defeated by Wake.

2005 4-7 beat NCSU (7-5), Clemson (8-4)
2004 4-7 beat Boston College (9-3)
2003 5-7 beat B. College (8-5) NCSU (8-5) Clemson (9-4)
2002 7-6 beat Purdue(7-6) Oregon (7-6) Georgia Tech (7-6)
2001 6-5 beat UNC (8-5) ECU (6-6) Virginia (5-7)

They didn't beat teams like that when you guys beat them. Heck they only won 3 games the best years you beat them and weren't against teams like they have beat in the last 5 or against the same SOS.

Ahh spindoctor, you;ve gone to fibbing, too.

If you notice they same time they dropped App pretty much the same time they added ECU these last 5 years. Just another direction.

ROFL Is that the same reason they scheduled Elon last year for 2007 and adding Liberty?????xlolx xlolx

FYI. Wake added ECU back in 2001 while ASU was still on the schedule.

FYI2 Northern Illinois replaced ASU on the schedule in 2002. (and promptly beat the Weak Deacs).

Face it, Wake added ECU not because ECU is I-A but because ECU is a I-A they can count on beating. And they were smart in doing so. Wake has reeled off 5 straight vs ECU in spite of the Deac's own 4-7-0, 4-7-0, 5-7-0 records. In 22 games, Wake NEVER beat ASU 5 straight.

Heck they only won 3 games the best years you beat them

Check your freakin facts. They won 4 in '83 when we beat them.
Besides, you guys lost to em with bad records. We tied Wake in '88 when they were 6-4-1. Much better than your losing 5 straight with two of those 4-7 Wake years.
Geez!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[SoCon48]

You haven't been looking too hard then (notice the bottom of every page here). Also the AGS Poll has been mentioned numerous times in media guides, TV, radio, print and websites all over the nation. Then again you probably haven't been to I-AA.org much either huh?

You are quite right. I was referring to the main stream sports media.

[*****]

You haven't been looking too hard then (notice the bottom of every page here). Also the AGS Poll has been mentioned numerous times in media guides, TV, radio, print and websites all over the nation. Then again you probably haven't been to I-AA.org much either huh?You are quite right. I was referring to the main stream sports media.Sorry, are those TV/Radio/Print/etc. that are outside of your local 7-11? :nonono2:

http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/corbis/DGT260/DCO2043.jpg

[SoCon48]

I think we got 5k
App got 3K and sold them in 58 minutes. 5K would have taken another half hour.:rolleyes:

[SoCon48]

Like your media book, or is that TV/Radio/Print/etc. that are outside of your local 7-11? asu fans include some real haters... jcline strikes again :nonono2:

Not a hater at all. Guess i got to be a "hater" when I proclaimed my long time Street & Smith's subscription.
Simply like to be realistic. No spin.

As to my "media book" as you so flippantly say....the 164 page Southern Conference Media Guide..I'm sure you've heard of the SoCon in I-AA???...its members have won a few NC's..uses the TSN poll.

I mean like the local ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox stations. The Charlotte Observer (largest east of Atlanta) , Greensboro, Winston-Salem, etc.

Not referring to "mentions" but actually running the poll weekly or telling the top 5 or 10 on the evening sports program. And not just sporadically when a local I-AA hits #1.

To be blunt, like other polls appear routinely.

[*****]

Umm, I mean like the local ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox stations.... Not referring to "mentions" but actually running the poll weekly or telling the top 5 or 10 on the evening sports program. And not just sporadically when a local I-AA hits #1. To be blunt, like other polls appear routinely.Like what polls for I-AA? Which ones run on ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox? Which of those stations regularly run which polls? The papers you mentioned are your local stuff (the biggest has the I-AA.org senior columnist in it every week).

[ASU Kep]

USA Today has a I-AA poll.

[*****]

USA Today has a I-AA poll.So does Pete.

[SoCon48]

Sorry, are those TV/Radio/Print/etc. that are outside of your local 7-11? :nonono2:

http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/corbis/DGT260/DCO2043.jpg

Next time I read the Atlanta Constitution's sports section, I'll be sure to check for the AGS poll.:nono:
Of course, I can always do a Google search.

[SoCon48]

USA Today has a I-AA poll.

We're talking about the AGS poll specifically, not I-AA polls in general.

[*****]

Next time I read the Atlanta Constitution's sports section, I'll be sure to check for the AGS poll.:nono:
Of course, I can always do a Google search.Yeah, hate to have you scroll down the page. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: If you don't like it, no one's making you denigrate it. MMB is calling you. You can vote in their I Hate Ralph poll (I would but nothing I post there stays undeleted).

[*****]

We're talking about the AGS poll specifically, not I-AA polls in general.Oh now you are changing your story... good for you. First one poll is better, then major sports media is but now it is only AGS Poll (the only one to rank ASU preseason last year and proven the best since it started) that is bad. How ironic... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ASU Kep]

So does Pete.

Sorry, I misunderstood the argument.

After discorvering what it was actually about, I CAN say though that last year I remember many times reading on goasu.com and in the school paper how we were ranked on AGS. Although we started the season lower, I think towards the end AGS had us higher than the other two (don't quote me on that, but I'm fairly sure). Whether ralph hates us or not, the rest of AGS seems to give us a fair shake anyways.

[SoCon48]

Yeah, hate to have you scroll down the page. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: If you don't like it, no one's making you denigrate it. MMB is calling you. You can vote in their I Hate Ralph poll (I would but nothing I post there stays undeleted).

Not denigrating it. But your comments about 7-11, my "media book", etc etc are certainly denigrating.
All I said in the beginning is that the TSN poll was the one used in its ASU media guide for more than a decade to show the rankings of ASU and it's opponents as they faced each other and that was the one I quoted as ASU being un-ranked in the pre-season last year.

[SoCon48]

Oh now you are changing your story... good for you. First one poll is better, then major sports media is but now it is only AGS Poll (the only one to rank ASU preseason last year and proven the best since it started) that is bad. How ironic... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Never said which was better and you know it. More commonly found?..of course!!

[*****]

Not denigrating it. But your comments about 7-11, my "media book", etc etc are certainly denigrating.
All I said in the beginning is that the TSN poll was the one used in its ASU media guide for more than a decade to show the rankings of ASU and it's opponents as they faced each other and that was the one I quoted as ASU being un-ranked in the pre-season last year.Excuse me? Didn't you just point out your media book again? Are you denigrating yourslf? :) Correction for you, in the beginning you said no one ranked ASU preseason last year...

[*****]

Never said which was better and you know it. More commonly found?..of course!!No more arguing, just sticking up for OUR poll from slams.

[ASU Kep]

I'd say the USA Today/ESPN would probably be the easiest to find for your casual I-AA fan, anyways.

As far as I-AA.org, AGS, and SN go, I tend to see them all as equal, often swapping between which ones I quote on a week-by-week basis depending on who has us higher. :D

[ASU Kep]

But I think I've C'ed my way into an A and B argument. I've been drinking, excuse me.

[*****]

note: I-AA.org does not do a poll, it runs the AGS, SNW, ESPN and Sheridan ones.
http://i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=71781

[ASU Kep]

Oh yah, they link to em, what's the third I was thinking of?

Oh, nevermind, probably the USA/ESPN I've been talking about. I give up.

[SoCon48]

I'd say the USA Today/ESPN would probably be the easiest to find for your casual I-AA fan, anyways.
. :D

That's exactly what I was saying ..only about the Sports Network poll (TSN) as opposed to the AGS.

[Mr. C]

Have you seen what teams like NC State and UVA have done with their facilities in the last 5 years??

You're crazy if you think Wake isn't a better team these days and the ACC isn't stronger... 4-7 is not a reflection of there talent..yeah they are really dodging you guys, that's why they replaced you with Purdue, Boston College and Nebraska in the OOC the last few years. If you notice they same time they dropped App pretty much the same time they added ECU these last 5 years. Just another direction.

The last 5 years we have played "Weak" Forest, they haven't been weak lots of good teams have been defeated by Wake.

2005 4-7 beat NCSU (7-5), Clemson (8-4)
2004 4-7 beat Boston College (9-3)
2003 5-7 beat B. College (8-5) NCSU (8-5) Clemson (9-4)
2002 7-6 beat Purdue(7-6) Oregon (7-6) Georgia Tech (7-6)
2001 6-5 beat UNC (8-5) ECU (6-6) Virginia (5-7)

They didn't beat teams like that when you guys beat them. Heck they only won 3 games the best years you beat them and weren't against teams like they have beat in the last 5 or against the same SOS.
You obviously must have been in the remedial reading department at ECU. If you had read my post completely, you would have seen that I said that Wake Forest had improved their program and that Jim Grobe is a great coach. Yes, NC State and Virginia have improved their facilities. But NC State's coach, Chuck Amato, is on the hot seat and will probably get fired if the Pack doesn't show significant progress this year. A loss to ASU could seal his fate. Virginia was recently castigated by one national radio guy for having a team that is talented, but has about as little heart as any team in I-A. Both those teams have done less with the talent they have had than could have been reasonably expected. There have been a lot of NFL draft choices on both of those teams lately, Mario Williams, DeBrickshaw Ferguson etc. But I find it interesting that the teams picked to finish at the both of both divisions this season are the ones from North Carolina. North Carolina has been truly pathetic, considering their resources, since Mack Brown left. The Tar Heels have made a lot of bad recruiting choices in recent years. Overlooking ASU star RB Kevin Richardson — considered a future NFL back — is one of many (by the way, East Carolina was his second choice and the Pirates shunned him too). Duke ... I don't even have to say anything else about the Blue Devils. Simply a horrible I-A program. Duke would have a hard time finishing in the first division in the SoCon.

The main point I was making about Wake Forest is that they are ducking Appalachian State and there is no arguing that point. And they still schedule other I-AA teams. But instead of playing ASU, now they schedule Elon, North Carolina A&T and Liberty, not exactly the cream of the I-AA crop.

You really should give up on this debate. If they were keeping score, you would be trailing big time.

[SoCon48]

Excuse me? Didn't you just point out your media book again? Are you denigrating yourslf? :) Correction for you, in the beginning you said no one ranked ASU preseason last year...

You will note that I did not say "no one ranked ASU." I said "we weren't ranked" and then in a subsequent post specified the TSN poll --that ASU and the SoCon primarily use in their releases and guides and is readily found. Just happens to be the one I check to see if SoCon teams are "ranked" and in relation to the week's opponents.


Here's the exact post:

Of course we've never been picked to beat the I-A's that we did nor to play within 50 pts of LSU in the Bayou.
Hell, we weren't even ranked in I-AA pre-season last year and yet won the NC.
Who gives a big crap about opinions and picks. They play the game on the field.
Love to see Delaware play the wuffpack in Raleigh.

My apologies for not thinking of the AGS among the polls when I said "'not ranked." There could possibly be some other poll that may have also had ASU ranked in pre-season as I did not say "any of the polls."

As to denigrating myself, I suppose if defending my usual sources against sarcastic slams..then yes. The I-AA schools and conferences spend a lot of money and manpower in producing the guides that promote our I-AA programs to the media and fans and I use them throughout every season.


__________________

[89Hen]

FWIW, I'm actually starting to think I'll be rooting for NCSt on the 2nd. :cool:

[StillJonesing]

Face it, Wake added ECU not because ECU is I-A but because ECU is a I-A they can count on beating. And they were smart in doing so. Wake has reeled off 5 straight vs ECU in spite of the Deac's own 4-7-0, 4-7-0, 5-7-0 records. In 22 games, Wake NEVER beat ASU 5 straight.
:

I guess they figured we would be a better draw and travel better. Wake ticket prices in
2005
NCSU $35
ECU $30
rest of the games $25 or lower.

[AppGuy04]

I guess they figured we would be a better draw and travel better. Wake ticket prices in
2005
NCSU $35
ECU $30
rest of the games $25 or lower.

Man, you must have been good at dodgeball as a kid:rolleyes:

[SoCon48]

I guess they figured we would be a better draw and travel better. Wake ticket prices in
2005
NCSU $35
ECU $30
rest of the games $25 or lower.

I guess they figured we would be a better draw and travel better

Ummhmm. Same reason they scheduled Elon and Liberty? You're in with good company on the Wake schedule. You've also given the Deacs 5 straight wins. Who else could have done that for them? Smart scheduling.
Elon and Lib will likely give Wake 2 more.

[Ivytalk]

Go, Appy! The true kings of Tobacco Road!:bow: :bow:

[StillJonesing]

Face it, Wake added ECU not because ECU is I-A but because ECU is a I-A they can count on beating. And they were smart in doing so. Wake has reeled off 5 straight vs ECU in spite of the Deac's own 4-7-0, 4-7-0, 5-7-0 records. In 22 games, Wake NEVER beat ASU 5 straight.
:

BTW you are dead wrong when when we signed this 6 year deal with Wake to play from 2001-2006 (we dropped the last game to sign the Virgina deal) they wanted our traveling fan base. In fact I doubt they really thought they would win.

ECU
1994 7-5 Beat S. Carolina
1995 9-3 #23/ beat Syracuse, Stanford, West Virginia
1996 8-3 recieved votes/beat Miami, S. Carolina, NC State
1997 5-6 beat a decent Wake team and Louisville
1998 6-5
1999 9-3 recieved votes/ beat Miami, S. Carolina, NC State, West Virginia
2000 8-4 recieved votes/ beat Syracuse Texas Tech, Louisville

2001 we started in the top 25.

Ranked or received votes 4 of the previous 6 years before our deal started. Wake by contrast had one winning season in this period. I seriously doubt they though we were any easy win when they signed. Try again.

[SoCon48]

FWIW, I'm actually starting to think I'll be rooting for NCSt on the 2nd. :cool:

That would be smart since everyone but a few Apps think ASU doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell.

[StillJonesing]

Face it, Wake added ECU not because ECU is I-A but because ECU is a I-A they can count on beating. And they were smart in doing so. Wake has reeled off 5 straight vs ECU in spite of the Deac's own 4-7-0, 4-7-0, 5-7-0 records. In 22 games, Wake NEVER beat ASU 5 straight.
:

BTW you dead wrong when when we signed this 6 year deal with Wake to play from 2001-2006 (we dropped the last game to sign the Virgina deal) they wanted our traveling fan base, and we were a very strong program when they signed up.

ECU
1994 7-5 Beat S. Carolina
1995 9-3 #23/ beat Syracuse, Stanford, West Virginia
1996 8-3 recieved votes/beat Miami, S. Carolina, NC State
1997 5-6 beat a decent Wake team and Louisville
1998 6-5
1999 9-3 recieved votes/ beat Miami, S. Carolina, NC State, West Virginia
2000 8-4 recieved votes/ beat Syracuse Texas Tech, Louisville

2001 we started in the top 25.

RIGHT, try again. They had won winning season in that time period. I am sure they thought we were an easy win when they signed with us. We were either ranked or recieved votes in the polls 4 our of the previous 6 years when this deal started.

[AppGuy04]

BTW you are dead wrong when when we signed this 6 year deal with Wake to play from 2001-2006 (we dropped the last game to sign the Virgina deal) they wanted our traveling fan base. In fact I doubt they really thought they would win.
ECU
1994 7-5 Beat S. Carolina
1995 9-3 #23/ beat Syracuse, Stanford, West Virginia
1996 8-3 recieved votes/beat Miami, S. Carolina, NC State
1997 5-6 beat a decent Wake team and Louisville
1998 6-5
1999 9-3 recieved votes/ beat Miami, S. Carolina, NC State, West Virginia
2000 8-4 recieved votes/ beat Syracuse Texas Tech, Louisville

2001 we started in the top 25.



RIGHT!

"What have you done for me lately"

I still can't fathom how you can come on here and talk smack when you have been one of the worst college football programs in the nation over the last 1/2 decade

[SoCon48]

and we were a very strong program when they signed up.

That was nice. Then ECU surprised the Deacs as a bonus by the Pirates bellying up five straight times for them.

2001 we started in the top 25.

And finished 6-6.

Current history. ECU: '01 6-6 '02 4-8, '03 1-11, '04 2-9, '05 5-6 (wth happened?)

Yeah, I know, we in I-AA are just small ball (in your words) and have no business even being mentioned in the same sentence with someone like ECU on the Big Stage, but still, just can't get jealous of a 18-39 record over the past five years.

But you have a point. It must look better for Wake to beat a I-A 5 straight than to lose to a little ol I-AA like ASU a third of the time.

[StillJonesing]

"What have you done for me lately"

I still can't fathom how you can come on here and talk smack when you have been one of the worst college football programs in the nation over the last 1/2 decade

Who is talking smack? I said you had a slim to none chance of winning, and then you guys jumped on ECU. I haven't attacked your program, you guys are the ones smack talking. I am just responding.:rotateh:

[AppGuy04]

LSU shut you out and beat you by 3 TD's. I call that a slaughter/thrashing. Not sure what you guys call it.

BTW we have won 6 out of the last 10 against NC State. Yeah we lost to Duke in a monsoon, we also beat a top 25 team that year as well.

Duke won some games that year and scared some people. It's not like they don't have some talent players, ask Georgia Tech and Clemson....they just play in a tough conference.

Actually, this is what started it all. You talking smack about us getting beat by a top 5 team, while here you are losing to Duke