Eight Bison football players charged...

[darell1976]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/373160/


BISMARCK – Eight current North Dakota State University football players and one former player are among 11 people facing charges in connection with voter fraud tied to general election ballot measures.

Four of the accused are starters on the football team.

North Dakota Attorney General Wayne Stenehjem and Secretary of State Al Jaeger identified the individuals charged as: Aireal Boyd, Josh Colville, Josh Gatlin, Demetrius Grey, Jennifer Krahn, Lane O’Brien, Samuel Ojuri, Brendin Pierre, Antonio Rodgers, Bryan Shepherd and Marcus Williams.

All have are charged with facilitation of voter fraud or filing a false statement, according to Stenehjem and Jaeger.

Just what NDSU did not need...off-field distractions.

[sgt smash]

Hippies...

[TheRevSFA]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/373160/



Just what NDSU did not need...off-field distractions.

Wow..voter fraud. They should totally give NDSU the death penalty

[kingranch]

or some piss ant running all over the internets reporting it, get back to youre basement gimp>

[frozennorth]

ETA until this is on espn?

[darell1976]

Wow..voter fraud. They should totally give NDSU the death penalty


As a result, two proposed measures will not be on the November general election ballot.

The affected measures are the proposed Constitutional initiative establishing a Clean Water, Lands and Outdoor Heritage Fund and the statutory initiative for medical marijuana.

That does deserve death...no Outdoor Heritage Fund or Clean Water. SMU them!!!! LOL!!

[frozennorth]

that is alot of disqualified ballots, no way 11 people were responsible for all of them.


For the marijuana initiative, they were out collecting signatures after bar close. Nearly none of the signatures were legible.

[sgt smash]

Now there gonna have to take that banner back down and paint over 2011. At least that huge statue of Bohl wasnt done yet or the NCAA would have to make a big deal when they tore that down.

[darell1976]

Now there gonna have to take that banner back down and paint over 2011. At least that huge statue of Bohl wasnt done yet or the NCAA would have to make a big deal when they tore that down.

Send it back to Grand Forks?:D

[sgt smash]

A.d just think, this could be a good thing for NDSU. After they get the death penalty, maybe they will suck bad enough to the point where C-USA would finally give an invite to them. Then finally they could get some respect from BR54NINER.

[Professor Chaos]

This is not good. There is no doubt about that. Voter fraud is a class A misdemeanor and Bohl has taken a hard line over this over the last few years. He booted Brandon Jemison off the team for a class A misdemeanor.

I don't envy Bohl, I have no idea what I'd do if I was in his shoes. If he boots them all I would lose the lunch that I'm trying to eat right now. I get the feeling that we'll see a 1 or 2 game suspension for all players charged.

Craig Bohl has called a press conference at 12:45. We'll know more soon.

[F'N Hawks]

Let see if he suspends them for this week vs. Colorado State or for next week vs. Prairie View. Will show alot about where he truly stands with discipline in his program.

[Laker]

This is not good. There is no doubt about that. Voter fraud is a class A misdemeanor and Bohl has taken a hard line over this over the last few years. He booted Brandon Jemison off the team for a class A misdemeanor.

I don't envy Bohl, I have no idea what I'd do if I was in his shoes. If he boots them all I would lose the lunch that I'm trying to eat right now. I get the feeling that we'll see a 1 or 2 game suspension for all players charged.

Craig Bohl has called a press conference at 12:45. We'll know more soon.

I don't know what I would do if I was the coach either. I think you are right- probably one to two games at least though.

[citdog]

and South Carolina is racist for passing a voter-id law......


smfh

[MplsBison]

Can someone please explain what the players are accused of doing in layman's terms?

[Professor Chaos]

Can someone please explain what the players are accused of doing in layman's terms?

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/373160/


Criminal complaints claim that all circulators of a petition are required to sign an affidavit stating they witnessed all the signatures and that all signatures are genuine.

An investigation found that the statements were not correct and that many of the individuals whose signatures appeared on the petitions had not signed them.


No one knows for sure yet exactly how those signatures got on the ballots, whether the players forged them or allowed others to. Not that it matters a lot in the eyes of the law but I would expect it will matter to Bohl. I trust that Bohl will have more information about this than any of us speculating about what his decision will be and we'll know whether he's ready to make that decision in about 5 minutes.

[Twentysix]

Can someone please explain what the players are accused of doing in layman's terms?

What they are accused of is very vague.
Attorney General Wayne Stenehjem says many of the petition signatures were copied from phone books or simply made up.

Eleven people face misdemeanor fraud charges for making false statements when circulating the petitions. Eight are NDSU football players, including four starters — running back Sam Ojuri (oh-JURE'-ee), defensive backs Marcus Williams and Brendin Pierre and offensive lineman Josh Colville.

The players were hired at $9 an hour to gather signatures.

We shall see what punishment is handed down.

[Laker]

From what I could see they tried to get people to sign a petition for putting an amendment on the ballot and may have added extra names. You need to have proper names and addresses on the petition, otherwise people could put down Mickey Mouse- I've seen it happen. Something like that tends to get people's attention. Hard to say how that will turn out.

[clenz]

From what I could see they tried to get people to sign a petition for putting an amendment on the ballot and may have added extra names. You need to have proper names and addresses on the petition, otherwise people could put down Mickey Mouse- I've seen it happen. Something like that tends to get people's attention. Hard to say how that will turn out.
Sounds as though they started making names up and addressed up (was LakesBison involed in this...sorry, had too), or they just pulled information straight out of a phone book

[Professor Chaos]

Bohl just announced that they will not suspend any players at this time and will wait for the legal process to play out.

[Twentysix]

Sounds as though they started making names up and addressed up (was LakesBison involed in this...sorry, had too), or they just pulled information straight out of a phone book

The articles I read suggested that could be what happened, but provided no substantial evidence. We shall see. People have been on every corner of campus the last few weeks asking for signatures. They ask you if you currently have a ND residence. Ofc they aren't realizing that a high % of freshman on campus don't and their permanent address and voter rights are in another state.

[clenz]

Bohl just announced that they will not suspend any players at this time and will wait for the legal process to play out.
Or, what he really meant


This Colorado State game is a big one....I'll wait until next week when we play Prairie View

[MplsBison]

If it was purely a matter of the players making names up to fill up the petitions, that would be one thing. Dishonest, sure, but slap on the wrist worthy and move on.

BUT, the snippet posted by 26 makes it sound like the players were hired to do a job and skipped out on the "work" part of it while collecting a pay check. It would be akin to players being hired by the city to do landscaping work and all they do is sleep in the truck and collect a paycheck (I'm making that up to prove a point). My point being, such a thing might be close to an NCAA violation.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The press conference sounded a lot like the halftime interview on Saturday.

[MplsBison]

Or, what he really meant


This Colorado State game is a big one....I'll wait until next week when we play Prairie View

Neither the CSU or PV games are particularly important in my book. Winning the MVFC should be the only goal every year. $0.02

[F'N Hawks]

....and of course there will be no discipline. "we will give them their day in court...." LOL.

At least we saw his true colors today. It is officially on record.

[clenz]

Neither the CSU or PV games are particularly important in my book. Winning the MVFC should be the only goal every year. $0.02
Neither is "important" but if you had to pick a game to have 4 starters miss would it be A- A game where you could beat an FBS team again...or B - a game they likely wouldn't have played a full half anyway.

[Sammy94]

BUT, the snippet posted by 26 makes it sound like the players were hired to do a job and skipped out on the "work" part of it while collecting a pay check. It would be akin to players being hired by the city to do landscaping work and all they do is sleep in the truck and collect a paycheck (I'm making that up to prove a point). My point being, such a thing might be close to an NCAA violation.

Sounds like something Rhett Bomar would do.

[MplsBison]

Neither is "important" but if you had to pick a game to have 4 starters miss would it be A- A game where you could beat an FBS team again...or B - a game they likely wouldn't have played a full half anyway.

Definitely A.

Why risk injury to those starters in a game that they're much more likely to get injured in and the game still doesn't mean anything? Gives back-ups very meaningful time as well, which builds depth.


I'm 100% for suspensions for the CSU game, for that reason, but doesn't sound like that will happen.

[clenz]

Definitely A.

Why risk injury to those starters in a game that they're much more likely to get injured in and the game still doesn't mean anything? Gives back-ups very meaningful time as well, which builds depth.


I'm 100% for suspensions for the CSU game, for that reason, but doesn't sound like that will happen.Actually, studies have been done and show players are less likely to get hurt in an FBS game than a D2/poor FCS team game.

[Twentysix]

Actually, studies have been done and show players are less likely to get hurt in an FBS game than a D2/poor FCS team game.

Link to that journal. I must have this in my factoid arsenal.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Or, what he really meant


This Colorado State game is a big one....I'll wait until next week when we play Prairie View


Sounds good to me. All this pearl clutching over voter fraud is stupid anyway

[Twentysix]

Sounds good to me. All this pearl clutching over voter fraud is stupid anyway

Calling it voter fraud is misleading.

It is signatures on a petition.

[clenz]

Calling it voter fraud is misleading.

It is signatures on a petition.
How so? What they did, allegedly, is the epitome of fraud.

[AmsterBison]

I think the residency requirement for North Dakota is "Are you a resident of North Dakota? If you answer 'yes', you are. If you answer no, don't be so sure." (ok, ok, you have to live in the state for 30 days so any student that stays the summer is a resident if they want to make that claim.)

[Twentysix]

How so? What they did, allegedly, is the epitome of fraud.

Yes but they weren't voting.

It is signatures on a petition. Fraud or not. All that petition would do is put it on a ballot, when the voting could then take place.

[Twentysix]

I think the residency requirement for North Dakota is "Are you a resident of North Dakota? If you answer 'yes', you are. If you answer no, don't be so sure." (ok, ok, you have to live in the state for 30 days so any student that stays the summer is a resident if they want to make that claim.)

Which for most freshman wont be for another 16 days. Also if they leave their permanent address in SD MN IA etc I dont think they have legal residency. They aren't obligated to get a ND license or change plates. I think they can still vote in their permanent address's state/district.

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

It's more of a petition fraud issue than actual voter fraud. It's not as if they were sending in false absentee ballots or something like that. Not entirely sure the statutes or anything on petition fraud, but I'm currently sitting in a Fraud and the Law class so I'll post if I find anything out.

[Twentysix]

It's more of a petition fraud issue than actual voter fraud. It's not as if they were sending in false absentee ballots or something like that. Not entirely sure the statutes or anything on petition fraud, but I'm currently sitting in a Fraud and the Law class so I'll post if I find anything out.

This is what im saying.

Fake ballots would be a HUGE DEAL. Fake signatures on a petition?? Not even close to the same thing.

Ive drawn pictures on a credit card slip where I should write my name.... I commited fraud oh no. Not to mention fake signatures were all over the Sioux petitions, I don't remember hearing a single person charged with anything. Perhaps not in this volume, but that hardly changes the wording of the law.

[F'N Hawks]

So Bohl is stating that a minor in possession, which he has suspended players for before without their "day in court", is worse than a Voter Fraud charge brought about by the state's AG?

Interesting.

[AmsterBison]

So Bohl is stating that a minor in possession, which he has suspended players for before without their "day in court", is worse than a Voter Fraud charge brought about by the state's AG?

Interesting.

Sioux, are you really a member of the Sioux tribe?

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

This is what im saying.

Fake ballots would be a HUGE DEAL. Fake signatures on a petition?? Not even close to the same thing.

Ive drawn pictures on a credit card slip where I should write my name.... I commited fraud oh no. Not to mention fake signatures were all over the Sioux petitions, I don't remember hearing a single person charged with anything. Perhaps not in this volume, but that hardly changes the wording of the law.

Well in order for it to be fraud a big part of it has to be intent to defraud the victim by deception. In this case the victim would be the state of ND. If they can prove that the defendants had knowledge that they were committing a fraud (false signatures) then they could be sentenced to up to 1 year in prison per ND statutes on class a misdemeanors.

[F'N Hawks]

I am not officially enrolled but unofficially I consider my myself a member. Are you?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I am not officially enrolled but unofficially I consider my myself a member. Are you?

Sioux, maybe. Troll, definitely.

[Twentysix]

I am not officially enrolled but unofficially I consider my myself a member. Are you?

You enroll in an ethnicity now? haha thats f-ed up.

[F'N Hawks]

You enroll in an ethnicity now? haha thats f-ed up.

Members of federally recognized tribes are "enrolled" to show they are true members of the tribe. Not an ethnicity, smart guy.

And I was joking with my response due to the sheer immaturity of the question.

[Twentysix]

Members of federally recognized tribes are "enrolled" to show they are true members of the tribe. Not an ethnicity, smart guy.

And I was joking with my response due to the sheer immaturity of the question.

You should learn what the word ethnicity means.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

You should learn what the word ethnicity means.


and immaturity

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

http://www.legis.nd.gov/cencode/t16-1c01.pdf page 5 and 6 is the closest legislation I can find to what happened (according to what we've heard so far) however it doesn't really give details as to how the state will proceed if they believe false signatures were made. The people who collect the signatures must sign a sworn affidavit saying that to their knowledge the signatures are those of the actual person. So in essence they lied on a sworn affidavit, that is, if the petition was sent to the secretary of state.

EDIT:
16.1-01-12. Election offenses - Penalty.
9. Sign a name other than that person's own name to an initiative, referendum, recall, or
any other election petition.

[BisonBacker]

From what I could see they tried to get people to sign a petition for putting an amendment on the ballot and may have added extra names. You need to have proper names and addresses on the petition, otherwise people could put down Mickey Mouse- I've seen it happen. Something like that tends to get people's attention. Hard to say how that will turn out.

Hell if they get booted off the team I know ACORN wants everyone of them. They are going to put them in charge of Training new Acorn volunteers.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Hell if they get booted off the team I know ACORN wants everyone of them. They are going to put them in charge of Training new Acorn volunteers.

Holy ****, I can't believe we got 50 posts before you started on that crap.

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

Attorney general statement: http://www.ag.state.nd.us/documents/09-04-12.pdf

[WeAreNorthDakota]

If it was purely a matter of the players making names up to fill up the petitions, that would be one thing. Dishonest, sure, but slap on the wrist worthy and move on.

BUT, the snippet posted by 26 makes it sound like the players were hired to do a job and skipped out on the "work" part of it while collecting a pay check. It would be akin to players being hired by the city to do landscaping work and all they do is sleep in the truck and collect a paycheck (I'm making that up to prove a point). My point being, such a thing might be close to an NCAA violation.

If the players were hired to solicit signatures for the petitions and were getting a paycheck that's fine. If, instead of soliciting signatures, they sat in their basement and made up signatures and addresses they have both committed voter fraud and committed an NCAA violation by getting paid for work not done.

[AmsterBison]

If the players were hired to solicit signatures for the petitions and were getting a paycheck that's fine. If, instead of soliciting signatures, they sat in their basement and made up signatures and addresses they have both committed voter fraud and committed an NCAA violation by getting paid for work not done.

People saw them out getting signatures. That said, if they padded their hours, gotta think that would be trouble.

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

People saw them out getting signatures.
People could have seen them out getting signatures, but it doesn't prove/disprove that they added additional false signatures on the petition. If this goes to trial, I believe it could be a pretty lengthy and complicated.

[AmsterBison]

People could have seen them out getting signatures, but it doesn't prove/disprove that they added additional false signatures on the petition. If this goes to trial, I believe it could be a pretty lengthy and complicated.

Yeah, if it goes to trial. I was just addressing the "paid without working" deal which is more of an NCAA deal.

I'm kind of surprised that student-athletes don't have to get their jobs vetted. If schools are supposed to do that, that's a lack of institutional control deal.

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

Yeah, if it goes to trial. I was just addressing the "paid without working" deal which is more of an NCAA deal.

I'm kind of surprised that student-athletes don't have to get their jobs vetted. If schools are supposed to do that, that's a lack of institutional control deal.

Didn't realize you were referring to the possible NCAA investigation. Best case scenario for these guys is to work out a plea bargain and pay some fines, etc. The quicker they can put it behind them the better. Fraud cases are usually pretty complex and drawn out.

[BisonBacker]

Holy ****, I can't believe we got 50 posts before you started on that crap.

Ha Truth hurts doesn't it.

[clenz]

Didn't realize you were referring to the possible NCAA investigation. Best case scenario for these guys is to work out a plea bargain and pay some fines, etc. The quicker they can put it behind them the better. Fraud cases are usually pretty complex and drawn out.
By taking a plea deal aren't they admitting that they did these things while getting paid...essentially getting paid to not work?

Wouldn't that be admitting to an NCAA violation?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

By taking a plea deal aren't they admitting that they did these things while getting paid...essentially getting paid to not work?

Wouldn't that be admitting to an NCAA violation?

Getting a no-show job and blowing off work are two different things.

[Hambone]

Getting a no-show job and blowing off work are two different things.

While I would agree to an extent, aren't they still getting paid for work not done either way? Not saying that's what they were doing, but i really don't know how the NCAA would look at it......

[clenz]

Getting a no-show job and blowing off work are two different things.
They were getting paid, and while "working" forged signatures instead of actually doing their job.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

They were getting paid, and while "working" forged signatures instead of actually doing their job.

Yes but there is a huge difference in the intent for improper benefits. People screw off and do poor jobs everywhere.

[darell1976]

I can see Bohl's point in waiting for the innocent until proven guilty thing to hand down punishment, but if he has punished players in the past without letting the legal system prove their case thats being a hypocrate, and he would be pulling a PSU (putting football above justice). Does he want to taint the school's reputation? I know going back to the NCAA title game is important but doing it at the expense of taking down the program (possible NCAA sanctions if this whole work thing comes out) is NOT the way to do it. IMO I would suspend those players for CSU then still beat the crap out of PV, and move on.

[gotts]

Keep in mind Jemison was dismissed for violation of team rules and there could be much more to the story than we'll ever know if it's handled internally.

The other thing is that you're facing 8 people involved instead of 1. Do you give everyone the same punishment, or do you try to get into it more, determine the level of involvement of each player and suspend accordingly?

[clenz]

Yes but there is a huge difference in the intent for improper benefits. People screw off and do poor jobs everywhere.
I'm not entirely sure the NCAA cares.

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

By taking a plea deal aren't they admitting that they did these things while getting paid...essentially getting paid to not work?

Wouldn't that be admitting to an NCAA violation?
Not necessarily. There are legitimate signatures collected on the petition, therefore some work was done at some point, by someone. It would also depend on the details of the plea bargain and exactly how they are formally charged. As there is not technically a "petition fraud" statute on the books in ND (or basically any federal/state statute) it is most likely essentially going to be treated as a type of voter fraud. I discussed this with a former attorney today and she had no knowledge of any type of petition fraud and simply referred to this as somewhere within the realms of voter fraud and forgery.

Also, all of this was released today, even the AG's official statement was pretty vague as to what they know and don't know. I expect we'll learn more in the days and possibly weeks to come.

[katstrapper]

WOW!! Voter Fraud? Starting RB Sam Ojuri?

[Squealofthepig]

I'm not entirely sure the NCAA cares.

See UConn and North Carolina for caring/not caring; poor grades? NOT OK! Fake courses to get good grades? NCAA approved!

[Professor Chaos]

Not necessarily. There are legitimate signatures collected on the petition, therefore some work was done at some point, by someone. It would also depend on the details of the plea bargain and exactly how they are formally charged. As there is not technically a "petition fraud" statute on the books in ND (or basically any federal/state statute) it is most likely essentially going to be treated as a type of voter fraud. I discussed this with a former attorney today and she had no knowledge of any type of petition fraud and simply referred to this as somewhere within the realms of voter fraud and forgery.

Also, all of this was released today, even the AG's official statement was pretty vague as to what they know and don't know. I expect we'll learn more in the days and possibly weeks to come.
Agreed, doing a piss poor job at something you're paid to do is different from being paid to not do it at all. If the NCAA wants to police that they could suspend a ton of players that get summer jobs and slack the whole time. However, if the NCAA has taught us anything it's that they're more than happy to stick their noses in anything that involves a member institution.

On another note, this whole Goodell style "guilty until proven innocent" mentality is preposterous. Like Bohl said in his press conference, discipline for things like these are evaluated on a case by case basis. There's no hard rule saying that getting charged with a class A misdemeanor warrants immediate dismissal and there shouldn't be. Bohl found out less than 12 hours ago that his players were being charged with this crime (although he did know that the AG was investigating them) and probably has about as much information on the specifics as we do right now. NDSU has a very good NCAA compliance officer who knows much more about the NCAA handbook than any of us. I guarantee she knows exactly what the risks are to allow these players to continue playing based on the allegations and that has been communicated to the head coach and AD. I expected a suspension but after hearing about when Bohl found out about the charges and the lack of information he still has on it it justifies his deference of a decision to a later date. xtwocentsx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

See UConn and North Carolina for caring/not caring; poor grades? NOT OK! Fake courses to get good grades? NCAA approved!

Actually, their slap on the wrist against UNC and UConn could be really bad news for the Bison. In order to punish the Huskies and Tar Heels, they could suspend the hell out of North Dakota State. Has happened too many times before.

[darell1976]

http://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2012-09-04/eight-ndsu-players-face-charges-forging-signatures-ballot-initiativ


The players were paid $9 an hour to gather signatures for two citizen initiatives, which sought to set up a state conservation fund and make marijuana legal for medical treatments. Attorney General Wayne Stenehjem said many of the petition signatures were copied from phone books or fabricated.

Bison coach Craig Bohl said the players have cooperated with investigators and any team discipline will be decided after they finish legal proceedings. The players will be eligible to play this weekend against Colorado State, he said.
The citizen initiatives advocated creating a new state conservation fund, financed by a share of North Dakota’s burgeoning oil tax collections, and the legal use of marijuana to treat symptoms of debilitating illnesses.

Supporters of the conservation initiative paid a consulting firm $145,000 to collect the petition signatures it needed to qualify for the ballot. The measure’s chairman, Stephen Adair, a regional director for Ducks Unlimited in Bismarck, said about $500,000 in television advertising time had already been booked for the fall campaign.

Adair said he felt “sick to my stomach” when he learned of the alleged fraud over the weekend. Stenehjem said the sponsoring committees of the conservation and marijuana initiatives were not themselves suspected of fraud.
The attorney general said 11 people in all face misdemeanor charges in connection with the alleged fraud. The charges carry a maximum penalty of a year in jail and a $2,000 fine.

Aside from the eight NDSU football players, those accused include a former Bison footballer, a woman and a man who is not connected with NDSU’s football program.

[Vitojr130]

This is not good. There is no doubt about that. Voter fraud is a class A misdemeanor and Bohl has taken a hard line over this over the last few years. He booted Brandon Jemison off the team for a class A misdemeanor.

I don't envy Bohl, I have no idea what I'd do if I was in his shoes. If he boots them all I would lose the lunch that I'm trying to eat right now. I get the feeling that we'll see a 1 or 2 game suspension for all players charged.

Craig Bohl has called a press conference at 12:45. We'll know more soon.

To be fair, Brandon's offense is far different than these charges. Waving your dick around at the mall in front of people is slightly different than saying signatures are correct and then finding out they aren't...

I support Bohl's decision to wait and see what the justice system has to say before handing out punishments.

Also, isn't a class A misdemeanor the lowest class of criminal activities?

[WeAreNorthDakota]

To be fair, Brandon's offense is far different than these charges. Waving your dick around at the mall in front of people is slightly different than saying signatures are correct and then finding out they aren't...

I support Bohl's decision to wait and see what the justice system has to say before handing out punishments.

Also, isn't a class A misdemeanor the lowest class of criminal activities?

Class A misdemeanor is one class short of a felony and one class higher than a DUI or minor in possession.

[darell1976]

To be fair, Brandon's offense is far different than these charges. Waving your dick around at the mall in front of people is slightly different than saying signatures are correct and then finding out they aren't...

I support Bohl's decision to wait and see what the justice system has to say before handing out punishments.

Also, isn't a class A misdemeanor the lowest class of criminal activities?

Class C
http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/white_collar_crimes/criminal-misdemeanor-classes.htm

The maximums and minimums for Class A, B, and C misdemeanors are different in every state. However, Class A misdemeanors receive the highest sentence, generally up to one year in county jail. Class B misdemeanors are punished between 90-180 days in county jail. Class C misdemeanors receive the least amount of time, usually 30 days or less

[Vitojr130]

Class A misdemeanor is one class short of a felony and one class higher than a DUI or minor in possession.

Gotchya, I must have had it backwards.

Well, at most I think they would receive a fine for this. It is not a violent crime and most of the people charged are not repeat offenders.

[jmufan]

First time offender, I would think a very small fine and a certain amount of suspended jail time, including probation or suspended probation on good behavior. But then again this is voter fraud, so have no idea.

[Gil Dobie]

They should be suspended now, let the new starters gel, instead of getting suspended near playoff time.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The thing people aren't understanding is that actual voter fraud is very hard to prove. These gentlemen would do well to go to court as they will either be found not guilty, or guilty of much smaller offenses. Wholesale voter fraud includes intent. A bunch of slackers trying to fill a quota and signing an affidavit without understanding the consequences is not voter fraud and will be found so.

Bohl is right, let the legal process play out. It may go in their favor.

[Professor Chaos]

To be fair, Brandon's offense is far different than these charges. Waving your dick around at the mall in front of people is slightly different than saying signatures are correct and then finding out they aren't...

I support Bohl's decision to wait and see what the justice system has to say before handing out punishments.
I agree that Jemison and this mess are very different and I was glad to hear Bohl say today that he'll evaluate on a case by case basis. I also support his decision to defer his decision on discipline until he knows more. I think they'll all be suspended by the time this is all said and done but I think there will be some that will get the axe dropped on them harder than others.

Regardless of any eventual discipline this was an incredibly stupid move by some young men who should know better about the responsibilities that comes with being a collegiate athlete. It is definitely deserving of the double face palm (http://cdn.iwastesomuchtime.com/October-18-2011-20-12-49-DoubleFacePalm.jpg).

[jmufan]

The thing people aren't understanding is that actual voter fraud is very hard to prove. These gentlemen would do well to go to court as they will either be found not guilty, or guilty of much smaller offenses. Wholesale voter fraud includes intent. A bunch of slackers trying to fill a quota and signing an affidavit without understanding the consequences is not voter fraud and will be found so.

Bohl is right, let the legal process play out. It may go in their favor.

There is no excuse for not knowing the law, especially when it is made clear that violating such laws can result in punishment. I can claim ignorance of law all day, but that doesn't mean the state see it that way. Filling a quota can be argued that they knowingly violated state elections laws in order to fraud the public at large. Just my take on it.

Voter fraud should not be taken lightly, nor should it be a light sentence for anyone that commits such an act. Why would it be okay to fraud the state or nation? Isn't this how dictators and other measures that strip a people rights get elected?

[NDB]

The thing people aren't understanding is that actual voter fraud is very hard to prove. These gentlemen would do well to go to court as they will either be found not guilty, or guilty of much smaller offenses. Wholesale voter fraud includes intent. A bunch of slackers trying to fill a quota and signing an affidavit without understanding the consequences is not voter fraud and will be found so.

Bohl is right, let the legal process play out. It may go in their favor.


You obviously haven't read the Attorney General's press release.

BCI has completed the first part of its investigation which led to these charges with more (people) possibly to come.

The evidence is damning. They know exactly what happened. The players are unwilling to affirm their signature on the petitions they already submitted.

Their best bet is to plea ASAP.

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

You obviously haven't read the Attorney General's press release.

BCI has completed the first part of its investigation which led to these charges with more (people) possibly to come.

The evidence is damning. They know exactly what happened. The players are unwilling to affirm their signature on the petitions they already submitted.

Their best bet is to plea ASAP.
Agreed, and to NoDak's point about this being very hard to prove in court. Not really. Take one of the suspected forged signatures and let the person who "signed" the petition testify. They should probably remember if they signed a petition, especially something as controversial as pot.

[Professor Chaos]

There is no excuse for not knowing the law, especially when it is made clear that violating such laws can result in punishment. I can claim ignorance of law all day, but that doesn't mean the state see it that way. Filling a quota can be argued that they knowingly violated state elections laws in order to fraud the public at large. Just my take on it.

Voter fraud should not be taken lightly, nor should it be a light sentence for anyone that commits such an act. Why would it be okay to fraud the state or nation? Isn't this how dictators and other measures that strip a people rights get elected?
You're absolutely right that there's no excuse for not knowing the law and anyone who signs the petition affidavit should know exactly what they're agreeing to. However, they're hardly stripping anyone of their rights. This was a petition to get these initiatives on the November general election ballot. The only thing it would've done was let the ND voting public decide for themselves whether they wanted to pass them. I'm not saying it shouldn't be illegal but don't act like this is some heinous fraudulent Ponzi scheme.

[GreatAppSt]

Hey Coachxcoachx Bohl I tweeked my ankle in practice, can I have an ice bag and a fat spleef from the trainers for pain?xlmaoxxlmaox

[penguinpower]

Um.......what is this exactly about? I don't feel like reading the damn press release. They forged signatures for what????? Most kids are in trouble for taking money or drinking or assault etc....but wTF is this about? I don't understand.

[jmufan]

You're absolutely right that there's no excuse for not knowing the law and anyone who signs the petition affidavit should know exactly what they're agreeing to. However, they're hardly stripping anyone of their rights. This was a petition to get these initiatives on the November general election ballot. The only thing it would've done was let the ND voting public decide for themselves whether they wanted to pass them. I'm not saying it shouldn't be illegal but don't act like this is some heinous fraudulent Ponzi scheme.

I would disagree on one point, you are correct that it didn't take someones rights, but in general, it is these kind of things that can and often do lead to the stripping of peoples rights. It takes away their voice. What if the fraud took place during an actual election? It happens more than what people would like to think.

[Professor Chaos]

I would disagree on one point, you are correct that it didn't take someones rights, but in general, it is these kind of things that can and often do lead to the stripping of peoples rights. It takes away their voice. What if the fraud took place during an actual election? It happens more than what people would like to think.
If fraud at this volume (it's estimated that around 26K of the 58K signatures collected were bogus) would've occurred in the general election it would be much worse than voter fraud collecting petition signatures to get it to the general election IMO. However, it would also be much more difficult to pull off. Class A misdemeanors in ND have a max sentence of a year in jail and a $2000 fine and a minimum sentence of nothing. Not all of these crimes are created equal and the max and min sentences reflect that.


Um.......what is this exactly about? I don't feel like reading the damn press release. They forged signatures for what????? Most kids are in trouble for taking money or drinking or assault etc....but wTF is this about? I don't understand.
There were signatures that were deemed to be forged on petitions they signed sworn affidavits for saying that those signatures were genuine.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

You obviously haven't read the Attorney General's press release.

BCI has completed the first part of its investigation which led to these charges with more (people) possibly to come.

The evidence is damning. They know exactly what happened. The players are unwilling to affirm their signature on the petitions they already submitted.

Their best bet is to plea ASAP.

I read the attorney general's report. Charging and getting a conviction are two different things. Again, this kind of thing goes on all the time and the major consequence is the petitions are thrown out. Very few people are convicted of a criminal offense.

I tried to not make this political but in this case it could be argued that the "liberal" measures were kicked off of the red state's ballot and a lot of high profile people were involved so this makes a great story. They can scream voter fraud all over the place.

Bollocks.

[penguinpower]

That's just absurd.

[LehighU11]

Hmmm, no immediate suspensions for criminal actions by Montana and NDSU players, but Tweetgate was treated like the FCS scandal of the decade. Good old NCAA xrolleyesx

[Hammerhead]

It's one thing to sleep in your work truck while getting paid. It's another matter to forge a legal document even if it's just a petition to put an item on a ballot. What ever happened to the good old days when players got hired by the City of Fargo to drive around all summer and flush the rust out of the fire hydrants all day?


If it was purely a matter of the players making names up to fill up the petitions, that would be one thing. Dishonest, sure, but slap on the wrist worthy and move on.

BUT, the snippet posted by 26 makes it sound like the players were hired to do a job and skipped out on the "work" part of it while collecting a pay check. It would be akin to players being hired by the city to do landscaping work and all they do is sleep in the truck and collect a paycheck (I'm making that up to prove a point). My point being, such a thing might be close to an NCAA violation.

[MplsBison]

It's one thing to sleep in your work truck while getting paid. It's another matter to forge a legal document even if it's just a petition to put an item on a ballot. What ever happened to the good old days when players got hired by the City of Fargo to drive around all summer and flush the rust out of the fire hydrants all day?

On the contrary, I find the potential NCAA ramifications to be the concern. The legal part of this is nothing more than political bull____ grandstanding in an election year.

Oh yeah right, like some kids are going to get prison time and a $2k fine for such a great crime they committed. Nope. Not a chance. They'll get community service and a slap on the wrist for a first time offense, if that.


What I was worried about was if the NCAA might decide to step in and investigate if there was a case of the ol' Rhett Bomar treatment going on here.

But as other have very astutely pointed out, it's one thing to get paid for doing a job that you never even showed up to (Bomar). It's another thing to show up for the job and cut corners. And I think Bohl did mention that the compliance officer was consulted and didn't sound like any kind of NCAA violation.

So they're probably ok.

[MplsBison]

Hmmm, no immediate suspensions for criminal actions by Montana and NDSU players, but Tweetgate was treated like the FCS scandal of the decade. Good old NCAA xrolleyesx

Wouldn't of mattered anyway. You ran into a buzzsaw and it was away. Wouldn't have mattered if you had Jerry Rice.

[T-Dog]

What a really random thing for football players to get in trouble for. What happened to the old classics like DUI's and beating up frat boys?

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

What a really random thing for football players to get in trouble for. What happened to the old classics like DUI's and beating up frat boys?

Fraud is just becoming increasingly prevalent because of the newer policies in place to detect it and a higher priority to deter any type of fraudulent activity. This kind of stuff has been going on forever, but has been increasingly in the spotlight in the last few years (in general, not with regard to ncaa athletes)

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Bohl is doing the right thing....wait until the legal process plays out.

[FargoBison]

Sounds like the likely outcome of these charges will be a fine and unsupervised probation according to our beat writer who talked to an attorney that worked on a case like this before.

http://bisonmedia.areavoices.com/2012/09/04/the-discipline-debate/

[LehighU11]

Wouldn't of mattered anyway. You ran into a buzzsaw and it was away. Wouldn't have mattered if you had Jerry Rice.

That's for sure. NDSU deserved the title, undoubtedly. Can't deny that the NCAA has a complete lack of consistency in suspensions and sanctions, though.

[Drblankstare]

Well this sure as hell spiced up Tuesday around here.

[jmufan]

Sounds like the likely outcome of these charges will be a fine and unsupervised probation according to our beat writer who talked to an attorney that worked on a case like this before.

http://bisonmedia.areavoices.com/2012/09/04/the-discipline-debate/

If true, quite standard, especially for first time offenders.

[McNeese75]

Or, what he really meant


This Colorado State game is a big one....I'll wait until next week when we play Prairie View

Exactly!!!!

[BucBisonAtLarge]

You have not been following the UConn, Montana and Ohio State nonsense well enough. This will merit some NCAA inquiry and the school is going to have to be all kinds of forthcoming. The associations between the program and the petition organization will have to be scrutinized.

This is a terrible thing to have hanging over the program. I would not want those guys to surrender any of their civil rights to short-circuit the legal process, just to uncloud some football games. I am sorry.

[Vitojr130]

You have not been following the UConn, Montana and Ohio State nonsense well enough. This will merit some NCAA inquiry and the school is going to have to be all kinds of forthcoming. The associations between the program and the petition organization will have to be scrutinized.

This is a terrible thing to have hanging over the program. I would not want those guys to surrender any of their civil rights to short-circuit the legal process, just to uncloud some football games. I am sorry.

I am not familiar with the UConn incident you speak of, but the Montana and Ohio State incidents were far different. The QB from Montana is charged with rape. This is a MUCH more severe allegation. The Ohio State incident was straight up a violation of NCAA compensation rules. It appears there is some grey area regarding this in the NDSU situation, as they were collecting signatures, but also did a half-a$$ed job by making up names. The Ohio State athletes simply didn't do anything and if I remember were compensated very, very handsomely..

The situations are much different and I doubt the NCAA will take action, just like with the Best Buy scandal a few years back. The courts worked then and Bohl took appropriate action. I expect the same will play out here.

[WeAreNorthDakota]

As I've read into this story a little more over the course of the day I don't think there are any NCAA issues here unless there is some evidence that they were given the job specifically because they were NDSU football players, which I think is a big reach considering the information we currently have.

The big issue is the sheer number of invalid signatures and that 8 of the 11 people charged are all connected to the NDSU football program. That signals to me that there was a concentrated effort to skirt quotas to get paid. If 25,000 signatures were actually forged, that's more than 2000 forged signatures for each person charged. Definitely not a minor issue.

[T-Dog]

Interesting "small world" connection here.

NDSU is playing Colorado State this weekend. One of the defensive starters for CSU is Lanston Tanyi, who is a former App St player who was involved in the sexual assault case last year that got him suspended from the team under circumstances that are done and over with and don't need rehashing. He had already graduated but had one year of eligibility left so he used the NCAA grad student exemption and enrolled at CSU and is starting for them this year.

[BisonBabe]

I am usually the one calling for immediate suspension. But as this investigation has been underway for some time I believe that Coach Bohl knows more about this than has been released. I trust he will act accordingly once the players have had their day in court. Right now they are innocent until proven guilty. Worst case is they knowingly committed fraud, best case they were stupid young men who were ignorant or oblivious to the law. Either way I will reserve judgement at this point.

They did not assault anyone, they did not show their junk in public ... if they are guilty so be it punish them but until they can prove intent I say let this play out in court.

[NDB]

they're hardly stripping anyone of their rights.

bullsh#t.

i signed a clean water petition that was thrown out because Marcus Williams committed fraud.

that's a big deal.

[NDB]

this kind of thing goes on all the time

Citation please.

[BisonBacker]

bullsh#t.

i signed a clean water petition that was thrown out because Marcus Williams committed fraud.

that's a big deal.

Sure am glad you aren't on any jury, you have them convicted before they have had their day in court. Not saying they are or are not guilty but they like all others deserve their day in court.

[NDB]

Bisonbacker.

The accused have all but stated their guilt by refusing to affirm their signatures on the petitions they submitted.

[BisonBacker]

Bisonbacker.

The accused have all but stated their guilt by refusing to affirm their signatures on the petitions they submitted.

I'm just saying let the legal process take its course. I'm fine with whatever they get for disciplinary action from both the legal system and NDSU. But this jump to the end and skip the rest of the process is what has me shaking my head.

[Twentysix]

I'm just saying let the legal process take its course. I'm fine with whatever they get for disciplinary action from both the legal system and NDSU. But this jump to the end and skip the rest of the process is what has me shaking my head.

This man has a truly american point of view.

[Vitojr130]

The accused have all but stated their guilt by refusing to affirm their signatures on the petitions they submitted.

So, being as how there are discrepancies, let them play it out in court before being judge, jury, and executioner. Maybe they never did sign the petitions, sent them in to the agency, and then the agency signed it for them and added thousands of signatures. Let's be honest, we don't know JACK ***** about the situation other than what the Forum and Bohl has provided. I trust Bohl's judgement and given his past, if he thought it was serious he would have already suspended them and started to plan for loss of some starters. Why would he wait? I don't think CSU is the most important game marked on Bohl's calendar... He would want to get the suspensions done and over with.

[BisonBacker]

So, being as how there are discrepancies, let them play it out in court before being judge, jury, and executioner. Maybe they never did sign the petitions, sent them in to the agency, and then the agency signed it for them and added thousands of signatures. Let's be honest, we don't know JACK ***** about the situation other than what the Forum and Bohl has provided. I trust Bohl's judgement and given his past, if he thought it was serious he would have already suspended them and started to plan for loss of some starters. Why would he wait? I don't think CSU is the most important game marked on Bohl's calendar... He would want to get the suspensions done and over with.
Please correct your quote, you have me as the owner of the statement made by someone else.

[Vitojr130]

Please correct your quote, you have me as the owner of the statement made by someone else.

Well I had quoted NBD word for word, but I removed it :)

[BisonBacker]

Thanks

[NDB]

Let's be honest, we don't know JACK ***** about the situation other than what the Forum and Bohl has provided.

I'm basing most of my opinion on the AG's press release.

The points made in that are damning.

[NDB]

I'm just saying let the legal process take its course. I'm fine with whatever they get for disciplinary action from both the legal system and NDSU. But this jump to the end and skip the rest of the process is what has me shaking my head.

That's a hoot.

How many times has Bohl not waited for the legal process to end before suspending or kicking a player off the team?

[Twentysix]

That's a hoot.

How many times has Bohl not waited for the legal process to end before suspending or kicking a player off the team?

You are making the assumption that bohl does not have more information than you are privy to. I still stand behind due process, even when bohl has circumvented it.

[MplsBison]

bullsh#t.

i signed a clean water petition that was thrown out because Marcus Williams committed fraud.

that's a big deal.

Well sorry but...whoppidy friggin doo!

I consider making up names on a petition to get a measure on a ballot to be analogous to jay-walking as far as criminal actions go. Worthy of a nice slap on a wrist, with a ruler if you prefer, and then on your way.


If it was a worthy cause, it wouldn't need a petition in the first place. Lawmakers would act directly upon it.


Politics aside, the crime is very much not the issue here. It's the potential NCAA violation of which there seems to be very, very little evidence that one occurred. Therefore there is simply no need to discipline these players from the team perspective. So it's done. Move on with your life.

[MplsBison]

I'm basing most of my opinion on the AG's press release.

The points made in that are damning.

So? The players aren't going to pay any significant fine and they're not going to do any jail time. As it should be. I could see at most having to pay back the money they were paid to do a job which they cut corners. That's about it.

Time to move on.

[NDB]

You are making the assumption that bohl does not have more information than you are privy to. I still stand behind due process, even when bohl has circumvented it.

bohl hasn't circumvented anything. he's made his decision. that's his prerogative.

his 'process' comment is hypocritical considering past suspensions/expulsions.

[Professor Chaos]

I'm basing most of my opinion on the AG's press release.

The points made in that are damning.
What we know from the Attorney General's press release is that those individuals charged with voter fraud turned in petitions containing forged signatures that they had signed sworn affidavits for saying those signatures were valid. That's the only thing we know for a fact.

Beyond that, we don't know how or why those signatures got there. Some may say it doesn't matter and they're right in terms of getting convicted but I believe the punishment, both from the court system and from Bohl, will depend on the how and the why.

[MplsBison]

Does anyone actually consider this to be a hardcore crime? I'm not talking about what the law classifies the violation as.

I mean, does making up false names on a petition (not an actual vote on anything) amount to a hill of beans?

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

I mean, does making up false names on a petition (not an actual vote on anything) amount to a hill of beans?

I'd say that to the people who are strongly supportive of the two proposed votes as well as those strongly against them, it probably does amount to a hill of beans. Especially anyone who had any sort of financial stake in either issue being presented on the ballot. Just my two cents.

[MplsBison]

I'd say that to the people who are strongly supportive of the two proposed votes as well as those strongly against them, it probably does amount to a hill of beans. Especially anyone who had any sort of financial stake in either issue being presented on the ballot. Just my two cents.

Then vote for people who support the same things you believe in!!!!! DUH!!!! That's the point of law makers.

People should not be making laws.

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

The whole point of a petition to get something on a ballot is because the person they voted for to make those laws either A) didn't get elected or B) didn't follow through on what they campaigned for. Politicians don't make promises to necessarily keep them. They make them to get elected.
Edit: Law makers are people just like us.

[BisonBacker]

That's a hoot.

How many times has Bohl not waited for the legal process to end before suspending or kicking a player off the team?
Did you not listen to either Bohl or Taylor in their remarks yesterday? There is a huge difference in showing your junk out at West Acres to whomever it was flashed to and these current players infractions. If you can't see that well then I'm not going to debate it with you. Lastly I'm not condoning any of the violations but there is a difference. There are differences in the penalties for violating laws, its like being caught driving 10 over the speed limit vs. driving 50 over the speed limit. One gets you a ticket/fine the other gets you a mandatory court date. Both are illegal but have differing penalties. But maybe you can't comprehend that I don't know. Lastly there is a thing called discretion. Both Bohl and Taylor have that luxury but will have to answer (which they did yesterday but obviously not to your liking) to the public for the decisions made. I'm fine with their explanation but you obviously are not.

[heath]

Does anyone actually consider this to be a hardcore crime? I'm not talking about what the law classifies the violation as.

I mean, does making up false names on a petition (not an actual vote on anything) amount to a hill of beans?

You're right Mpls,hell, Dems have been doing this for years.Voter fraud,voter ID policy etc. On Scott Walkers recall,Hitler and Mickey Mouse were counted by the Dems.You're only screwed if the AG is a Republican or up for reelection xthumbsupx

[Professor Chaos]

I'd say that to the people who are strongly supportive of the two proposed votes as well as those strongly against them, it probably does amount to a hill of beans. Especially anyone who had any sort of financial stake in either issue being presented on the ballot. Just my two cents.
But isn't it correct in the end anyway? Once the fakes are removed there isn't enough signatures to get the ballot in the general election. Had they not cheated to get the petition up over the threshold for the general election they never would've gotten the needed signatures to begin with.

I would think the reason why this is against the law is as a detterent not to do it so they don't have to waste time validating all these things like they apparently had to do here.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

But isn't it correct in the end anyway? Once the fakes are removed there isn't enough signatures to get the ballot in the general election. Had they not cheated to get the petition up over the threshold for the general election they never would've gotten the needed signatures to begin with.

I would think the reason why this is against the law is as a detterent not to do it so they don't have to waste time validating all these things like they apparently had to do here.

NOOOO! VOTER FRAUD! AFFRONT TO DEMOCRACY! ACORN ACORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

But isn't it correct in the end anyway? Once the fakes are removed there isn't enough signatures to get the ballot in the general election. Had they not cheated to get the petition up over the threshold for the general election they never would've gotten the needed signatures to begin with.

I would think the reason why this is against the law is as a detterent not to do it so they don't have to waste time validating all these things like they apparently had to do here.
It's all speculation at this point, did they forge the signatures because they were lazy and didn't want to go out and get a few thousand more (I believe each was within 2,000 or so after the bogus signatures were thrown out. Or did they forge them after they realized they'd come up short a few days before it had to be submitted? I'm in Georgia, I couldn't care less about your petition for ballot issues as far as what gets on and what doesn't. But nonetheless, it's still a pretty interesting case depending on what we find out about what really happened. My Fraud and the Law professor has practically no knowledge of a case similar to this both in her law career and her teaching career. I also haven't come across much online about similar cases (haven't dug too much). So this is kind of uncharted territory for the legal system IMO. And with the lack of any sort of precedent, this will probably, as many have said, end up with a reasonable fine and maybe probation/community service. NCAA will probably sniff around but find little to nothing to implicate the players in any official NCAA violations. I'm not as familiar with NCAA rules/violations as the legal system in general.

[bisonboone11]

It's all speculation at this point, did they forge the signatures because they were lazy and didn't want to go out and get a few thousand more (I believe each was within 2,000 or so after the bogus signatures were thrown out. Or did they forge them after they realized they'd come up short a few days before it had to be submitted? I'm in Georgia, I couldn't care less about your petition for ballot issues as far as what gets on and what doesn't. But nonetheless, it's still a pretty interesting case depending on what we find out about what really happened. My Fraud and the Law professor has practically no knowledge of a case similar to this both in her law career and her teaching career. I also haven't come across much online about similar cases (haven't dug too much). So this is kind of uncharted territory for the legal system IMO. And with the lack of any sort of precedent, this will probably, as many have said, end up with a reasonable fine and maybe probation/community service. NCAA will probably sniff around but find little to nothing to implicate the players in any official NCAA violations. I'm not as familiar with NCAA rules/violations as the legal system in general.
I just have a tough time believing something similar to this has never happened before (not necessarily involving student athletes). They were hired to go out and get petitions signed, and some have said they were given incentives to get more signatures. If the incentives for signatures is a common practice, I would think there would be many cases involving people adding some signatures to hit their daily quota to get a bonus. I'm not doubting your professor, because obviously they would know far more than me, but it surprises me that this is that uncommon.

I also want to add that I'm in no way attempting to defend the players. If they did forge names, that wasn't very smart. I'm just curious if there has been any precedent set within the legal system for this sort of action.

[ndsubison]

I'd say that to the people who are strongly supportive of the two proposed votes as well as those strongly against them, it probably does amount to a hill of beans. Especially anyone who had any sort of financial stake in either issue being presented on the ballot. Just my two cents.

Why don't they go after the organization who hired the players to collect the signatures? Afterall, wouldn't said company be responsible for the actions of their "employees", especially if the company was presumably under contract and getting paid?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I consider making up names on a petition to get a measure on a ballot to be analogous to jay-walking as far as criminal actions go. Worthy of a nice slap on a wrist, with a ruler if you prefer, and then on your way.

If it was a worthy cause, it wouldn't need a petition in the first place. Lawmakers would act directly upon it.

You may feel that way, but the law considers this a felony, which is all that matters here.

Incidentally, it's a good thing Mpls isn't running this country.

[BEAR]

In Arkansas there is a group trying to legalize Marijuana. Nearly 30,000 falsified signatures..Illegal signatures...fraud. Not a couple dozen...nearly 30K! There has got to be a better way to find out if our voters support ANY measure besides paying people to go out and collect a paycheck without working for it.


Check this out:



The secretary of state's office said that only 36,495 of the 65,413 signatures submitted by Arkansans for Compassionate Care, the group formed to campaign for the medical marijuana proposal, were valid. The proposed initiated act needed at least 62,507 signatures from registered voters to qualify for the ballot.

Read more: http://www.greenwichtime.com/news/article/Ark-marijuana-proposal-needs-more-signatures-3706029.php#ixzz25da48Miv




Arkansas Code Annotated 7-9-103 makes it a Class A misdemeanor to sign another person’s name to a petition, knowingly sign a petition more than once, knowingly sign a petition when not illegally entitled to do so and knowingly misrepresent the purpose of a petition.

It also is a Class A misdemeanor for a canvasser to knowingly make a false statement on a petition form, for a notary to knowingly make a false statement on a petition form, or for a notary to knowingly fail to witness the canvasser’s affidavit.

A Class A misdemeanor is punishable by up to a year in prison and a $2,500 fine.

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

You may feel that way, but the law considers this a felony, which is all that matters here.

Incidentally, it's a good thing Mpls isn't running this country.

Class A misdemeanor in ND, not a felony.

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

I just have a tough time believing something similar to this has never happened before (not necessarily involving student athletes).

And I wholeheartedly agree that it has happened before, but the act and detection of the act are very different. As this is a state matter, not a federal one it can be treated differently depending on location. If the higher-ups in the ND government had some stake in these things not being on the ballot, they could have looked into these petitions more thoroughly than others. Especially with something as controversial as the use of marijuana, these petitions were probably under more scrutiny than others in the past. I have no clue the political situation in your state, but that also could have a lot to do with it. I have a copy of the Fraud Examiner's manual, and can't seem to find any statutes exactly relating to these circumstances. Granted, I haven't read all 2,151 pages of the PDF, but upon doing a quick search with voter, election and petition, I couldn't come upon anything of much relevance to this type of case.


I'm just curious if there has been any precedent set within the legal system for this sort of action.
Since it's a state case it would have to be a precedent set by one of the higher courts in ND unless there was a case precedent set by the U.S. Supreme court. Best way to find out would probably be a lexis search or some other legal database search with very specific search terms.

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

In Arkansas there is a group trying to legalize Marijuana. Nearly 30,000 falsified signatures..Illegal signatures...fraud. Not a couple dozen...nearly 30K! There has got to be a better way to find out if our voters support ANY measure besides paying people to go out and collect a paycheck without working for it.
From the North Dakota Attorney General's office.
"Without the fraudulent petitions that could not be accepted by the Secretary of State’s office, neither of the sponsoring committees has submitted sufficient signatures for the measures to be placed on the ballot. For the Constitutional Clean Water measure, more than 26,904 signatures are required. Of the 37,785 signatures submitted, more than 17,034 were deemed invalid, leaving the measure 7,938 signatures short. For the statutory medical marijuana measure, 13,452 signatures are necessary. Of the 20,092 signatures submitted, only 12,533 were determined to be valid, leaving the committee more than 900 signatures short."

So ~25,000 were invalid signatures. Pretty similar case, have there been any legal actions taken by the state against the folks who submitted, and/or collected signatures?

[MplsBison]

The whole point of a petition to get something on a ballot is because the person they voted for to make those laws either A) didn't get elected or B) didn't follow through on what they campaigned for. Politicians don't make promises to necessarily keep them. They make them to get elected.
Edit: Law makers are people just like us.

A) then you lost. You don't get your way. End.

B) then you picked the wrong person. Don't re-elect the jerkoff and make sure you better understand the voting history of the person you're supporting. End.


Law making by the people is bulls___. We elect officials. That's how it is. NO MOB RULE

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

Democracy is a majoritarian form of government in which all eligible citizens have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives.

[MplsBison]

Democracy is a majoritarian form of government in which all eligible citizens have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives.

Correct.

This country is not a democracy. It's a democratically elected (sort've) republic.

[BEAR]

So ~25,000 were invalid signatures. Pretty similar case, have there been any legal actions taken by the state against the folks who submitted, and/or collected signatures?

Sounds like it..but not until the 30 day grace period is over. If they don't get the missing sigs, then the Ark. gov't will press charges...looks like they are focusing on the canvassers though.


He said the unofficial benchmark for verified signatures is about 70 percent, so two petitions with 30 percent or less raised some red flags.

Any request for a criminal investigation would not be made until after the grace period the groups were given to gather additional signatures is expired, Reed said. Todd and supporters of the medical marijuana proposal have said they will continue gathering signatures. Nelson suspended his campaign Tuesday.

“In an event we do turn it over to (the state police), I would imagine they would look at canvassers, the people who gathered the signatures. I think they would look at everything,” Reed said Wednesday.

Nelson said earlier this week he was disappointed with the poor verification rate and questioned the motives of some of the canvassers.

http://www.boonevilledemocrat.com/articles/2012/07/30/news/news21.txt

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

A republic is a type of democracy..

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

Sounds like it..but not until the 30 day grace period is over. If they don't get the missing sigs, then the Ark. gov't will press charges...looks like they are focusing on the canvassers though.



http://www.boonevilledemocrat.com/articles/2012/07/30/news/news21.txt

Shouldn't the 30 day grace period have expired by now?

[MplsBison]

A republic is a type of democracy..

Decisions in the country are made by democratically elected officials. Popular vote does not determine the course of action.

That's something I'm thankful for every day I wake up here.

[Laker]

Democracy is a majoritarian form of government in which all eligible citizens have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives.


Correct.

This country is not a democracy. It's a democratically elected (sort've) republic.

The US is a representative democracy. The people vote for other people to represent them. It is also a republic, although most people who say the Pledge of Allegiance have no idea what that means. In a republic, no offices are inherited. For example, Sweden is a democracy. They elect people to represent them. But they are not a republic since they are ruled by royalty.

And I thought that I had retired from teaching. xeyebrowx

[sgt smash]

bullsh#t.

i signed a medicinal marijuana petition that was thrown out because Marcus Williams committed fraud.

that's a big deal.

Fixed it for you Hippie.

[bisonguy]

The US is a representative democracy. The people vote for other people to represent them. It is also a republic, although most people who say the Pledge of Allegiance have no idea what that means. In a republic, no offices are inherited. For example, Sweden is a democracy. They elect people to represent them. But they are not a republic since they are ruled by royalty.

And I thought that I had retired from teaching. xeyebrowx


The United States is not a representative democracy, but rather a constitutional republic in which majority rule is tempered.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

bullsh#t.

i signed a clean water petition that was thrown out because Marcus Williams committed fraud.

that's a big deal.


If the voters of ND think this is such a good petition it will be on the ballot again.

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

In my opinion, from what I've read and been taught, the US is actually more closely a combination of just about everything we've all mentioned.

[alvinkayak6]

The US is a representative democracy. The people vote for other people to represent them. It is also a republic, although most people who say the Pledge of Allegiance have no idea what that means. In a republic, no offices are inherited. For example, Sweden is a democracy. They elect people to represent them. But they are not a republic since they are ruled by royalty.

And I thought that I had retired from teaching. xeyebrowx

Except we are all ruled by royalty known as the Federal Reserve. :D

[Twentysix]

Except we are all ruled by royalty known as the Rothschild family. :D

Fify

[MplsBison]

In my opinion, from what I've read and been taught, the US is actually more closely a combination of just about everything we've all mentioned.

Whatever the technical classification, this is the fact: you elect people to be lawmakers. You don't get to band together with a bunch other common people, pitchforks in hand and start writing your own laws!

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

Mpls, that's actually kinda what our forefathers did really. I wish we had more "common" people as our elected officials.

[MplsBison]

Mpls, that's actually kinda what our forefathers did really. I wish we had more "common" people as our elected officials.

Our forefathers didn't want to pay taxes to England. End.

They were very happy to be land owners and slave owners here in the new land, independent of the queen. That's about it.

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

Clearly mpls is a historical genius and none of our thoughts matter on the issue. So there we have it people shouldn't make laws only political law makers that get money to "serve their constituents" and vote how their district votes. We all know that always works out perfectly.

[Laker]

The Founding Fathers created a country made up of 13 independent states that had very little in common with each other, and after passing the extremely weak Articles of Confederation managed to keep things together with a Constitution that no other nation had ever done before. The Bill of Rights, which was ratified AFTER the Constitution (I doubt if people would believe that "the check was in the mail" today) gave the people, rather than the rulers, rights and protections. The very idea of an amendment process- to change things only 27 times since it was created- showed great forethought. And one of the greatest ideas was that the new states would enter as equals, rather than as colonies. That allowed this country to grow to greatness.

No- these were extraordinary men. Full of faults, yes. But extraordinary. And they were not professional politicians.

[BisonBacker]

For some reason reading these last few posts less mnpls ignored idiotic comments this came to mind......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROxvT8KKdFw

[Laker]

I hadn't noticed the Tennessee state flag by the podium before. The movie was shot mostly in Eugene, Oregon. Babs and Mandy still look good in this clip.............

[AmsterBison]

So ~25,000 were invalid signatures. Pretty similar case, have there been any legal actions taken by the state against the folks who submitted, and/or collected signatures?

I don't think that invalid signatures are the same as fraudulent signatures. The AG could very well throw out entire batches of signatures because a portion that they checked were found to be fraudulent. Now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure that this is the case because I don't think the North Dakota AG's office even has the resources to have proven 25k signatures fraudulent.

[BEAR]

I don't think that invalid signatures are the same as fraudulent signatures. The AG could very well throw out entire batches of signatures because a portion that they checked were found to be fraudulent. Now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure that this is the case because I don't think the North Dakota AG's office even has the resources to have proven 25k signatures fraudulent.


“In an event we do turn it over to (the state police), I would imagine they would look at canvassers, the people who gathered the signatures. I think they would look at everything,” Reed said Wednesday.

Invalid. Fraudulent. Either way it's defined as a crime in Arkansas and other states. If you didn't sign it, you sure as heck don't want someone signing your name to it...fraudulent. Kinda like someone signing your name to a credit card purchase..knowingly anothers name to benefit is a crime in my book...as for the Arkansas marijuana issue, when only 30% of the signatures prove valid, heads are gonna roll. I don't know about the situation in N.D.

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

I don't think that invalid signatures are the same as fraudulent signatures. The AG could very well throw out entire batches of signatures because a portion that they checked were found to be fraudulent. Now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure that this is the case because I don't think the North Dakota AG's office even has the resources to have proven 25k signatures fraudulent.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're using invalid to mean potential voter registration problems and that those people did actually sign the petition but they weren't eligible. Which isn't a major issue, it's just that they won't count. (i.e. college students not from ND signing when they're registered to vote in their home state) But I don't believe that is really the case here. As UCA pointed out, I think many of the signatures did not come from the person whose name/address was listed. Therefore making them fraudulent in the eyes of the law.

[bisonboone11]

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're using invalid to mean potential voter registration problems and that those people did actually sign the petition but they weren't eligible. Which isn't a major issue, it's just that they won't count. (i.e. college students not from ND signing when they're registered to vote in their home state) But I don't believe that is really the case here. As UCA pointed out, I think many of the signatures did not come from the person whose name/address was listed. Therefore making them fraudulent in the eyes of the law.
According to the local paper, which may or may not be correct, of the 37,785 signatures on the conservation petition, signatures were deemed invalid due to the following: 15,868 were invalidated because the circulators refused to reaffirm affadavits saying the names were genuine, 351 with no address, 328 with out-of-state addresses, 272 with no date, 88 signed for another person (like a spouse or friend), 64 with no name of circulator on the petition, 47 with only a first or last name, 6 where the same person signed more than one petition for the same measure, 5 where the circulator also signed the petition, 3 signed by the notary who notarized that petition, 1 signed after the petition had been notarized, and 1 with no name.

Obviously the big one there is the 15,868 that were invalidated because the circulators refused to reaffirm affadavits saying the names were genuine. The question that I have on this is when the circulators were asked to reaffirm affadavits, were they told, "we found someone's name listed as Hillary Rodham on your petition (or something similar), so are you still willing put your name on the line that these signatures are valid?" Even if I felt 99% of the names on the petition were correct and I happened to miss that one, there is no way I would put my name on that, which would make all names on that petition invalid.

Also, 2,000 postcards were sent to a random sample, and 38 people responded saying they never signed the petition and another 56 said they weren't eligible to sign. What we don't know about these numbers is whether the 38 that said they never signed the petition were actually signed by a spouse or friend, or if they were forged by the circulators.

I'm not saying they are guilty or innocent, I just wanted to provide a little background information on the topic.

[GATA_OneMoreTime]

Thanks for sharing, keep any information from the local news/newspaper etc coming because I don't know a whole lot other than the first few articles and the AG's statement.

[heath]

According to the local paper, which may or may not be correct, of the 37,785 signatures on the conservation petition, signatures were deemed invalid due to the following: 15,868 were invalidated because the circulators refused to reaffirm affadavits saying the names were genuine, 351 with no address, 328 with out-of-state addresses, 272 with no date, 88 signed for another person (like a spouse or friend), 64 with no name of circulator on the petition, 47 with only a first or last name, 6 where the same person signed more than one petition for the same measure, 5 where the circulator also signed the petition, 3 signed by the notary who notarized that petition, 1 signed after the petition had been notarized, and 1 with no name.

Obviously the big one there is the 15,868 that were invalidated because the circulators refused to reaffirm affadavits saying the names were genuine. The question that I have on this is when the circulators were asked to reaffirm affadavits, were they told, "we found someone's name listed as Hillary Rodham on your petition (or something similar), so are you still willing put your name on the line that these signatures are valid?" Even if I felt 99% of the names on the petition were correct and I happened to miss that one, there is no way I would put my name on that, which would make all names on that petition invalid.

Also, 2,000 postcards were sent to a random sample, and 38 people responded saying they never signed the petition and another 56 said they weren't eligible to sign. What we don't know about these numbers is whether the 38 that said they never signed the petition were actually signed by a spouse or friend, or if they were forged by the circulators.

I'm not saying they are guilty or innocent, I just wanted to provide a little background information on the topic.
Wow!.Bison football players are now community organizers,no wonder fraud is being mentioned. Just tell the players NOT to reTWEET any messages from friends telling them what idiots they have been that used the N wordxlolx

[NDB]

Question for AGS' great legal minds.

A guy submits three petition circulars for the two different initiatives, each containing 20 signatures that he forged. His salary is based on performance and received additional payment because the forged signatures put him over the top.

- What would be the maximum type and number of counts the guy would face?



- What would he likely be charged with?

[BisonBacker]

They'd be charged under the voter fraud clause that's already been stated by the AG's office. Civil suits would be where I'd be more concerned if I were them. The backers who pumped money into this may very well go after them for punitive damages but that's debatable given they are basically broke college students. Unless they want to make an example out of them but that would still cost the backers more money in attorney fees. Bottom line IMO is they will get charged under the voter fraud, cop a plea deal with some monetary fine and the civil side of it will never see the light of day as it would just be more money pissed away in attorney fee's by the sponsors of the petition. The players will get varying suspensions of 1-3 games depending on if they had previous problems. THIS IS ALL MY OPINION ONLY! Unless more information comes out in the news which is possible that could change my opinion but I don't see anything more then 1-3 game suspensions. Ojuri having had some previous issues may change coaches view on that though.

[BisonBacker]

Ok so more news now on this. 9 current players have been charged per the fargo forum. They have an initial court date set of 10/2

Albers, Williams, Pierre, Colville, Ojuri, Boyd, Rodgers, Shepherd and Gray are all current members of the North Dakota State University Bison football team.

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/373568/

[bisonboone11]

Is it true that the players haven't been charged with anything yet? I have heard several people say that, but most news articles say they have been. I did, however, read in the Forum last night that charges could be released as early as today?

Another thing to mention is that the company that hired the players could also be in trouble. Apparently, they may have required the circulators to get a certain number of signatures in order to keep their jobs or gave them additional money if they reached a certain number. In ND, apparently it is illegal to pay per signature, but it sounds like the quota thing is sort of a gray area.

Edit: Nevermind. Disregard the first part of my post. Just saw the previous one.

[BisonBacker]

I hope they just fess up to being stupid if they are guilty as charged and deal with the consequences by entering a guilty plea and get it over with rather than drag it out and have it be a distraction for the whole season. You can't fix stupid and what's done is done but just get it over with IF I repeat IF they are guilty as charged.

[BisonBacker]

Is it true that the players haven't been charged with anything yet? I have heard several people say that, but most news articles say they have been. I did, however, read in the Forum last night that charges could be released as early as today?

Another thing to mention is that the company that hired the players could also be in trouble. Apparently, they may have required the circulators to get a certain number of signatures in order to keep their jobs or gave them additional money if they reached a certain number. In ND, apparently it is illegal to pay per signature, but it sounds like the quota thing is sort of a gray area.

No they have now been charged as of today! Follow the link I provided.

As far as the company is concerned that won't exonerate the players or make them less culpable for what they did (if they did what they are being charged for).

[MplsBison]

Good posts and info Backer, thanks.

IMO - fair legal punishment would be a fine equaling the amount of money they were paid to collect signatures (since they basically cheated their job) and zero jail time or probation. As far as a team punishment goes, a public apology would be fine for me. If the coach wants to go for a game suspension (PVAM), that's above and beyond necessary but I also wouldn't have a problem with it.

[darell1976]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/373568/


FARGO – Charges have been filed against 15 people in connection with petition drives involving two initiated measures that now have been barred from the November election ballot in North Dakota, the Cass County State’s Attorney’s Office said this morning.

The 15 were charged with violating state law by signing a name other than that person's own name to an initiative, referendum, recall or other election petition.

The individuals are:

Lucas Albers, Aireal Boyd, Don Carter, Joshua Colville, Joshua Gatlin, Demetrius Gray, DJ McNorton, Sam Ojuri, Brendin Pierre, Antonio Rodgers, Bryan Shepherd, Charles (C.J.) Smith, Marcus Williams, Jennifer Krahn, and William Brown.

Albers, Williams, Pierre, Colville, Ojuri, Boyd, Rodgers, Shepherd and Gray are all current members of the North Dakota State University Bison football team.

Gatlin, McNorton, and Carter are former members of the team.


All of those charged have been summoned to appear in Cass County District Court on Oct. 2

Should I show up for jury duty in my UND shirt?:D

[Laker]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/373568/



Should I show up for jury duty in my UND shirt?:D

As long as it didn't have a Sioux logo on it. Otherwise they might think that you were prejudiced.

Actually that would be an interesting question to ask when they did jury screening. "Are you a UND or NDSU fan?"

[BisonBacker]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/373568/



Should I show up for jury duty in my UND shirt?:D

They'd take one look at you shirt or no shirt and say you are disqulaified/tainted/sullied/should I go on????:D

[darell1976]

As long as it didn't have a Sioux logo on it. Otherwise they might think that you were prejudiced.

Actually that would be an interesting question to ask when they did jury screening. "Are you a UND or NDSU fan?"

I think they would ask if you were a football fan then maybe that would disqualify, or change the venue to possibly...Bismarck or Minot. I don't think Grand Forks would be an option.:D

[darell1976]

They'd take one look at you shirt or no shirt and say you are disqulaified/tainted/sullied/should I go on????:D

Unless the lawyers and judge went to UND's law school:D.

[BisonBacker]

Unless the lawyers and judge went to UND's law school:D. Then we know they'd all be dirty and disqualified xthumbsupx

[MplsBison]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/373568/



Should I show up for jury duty in my UND shirt?:D


Never make it to court. They'll plea for peanuts fines and slaps on the wrist.

It's over.

[darell1976]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/373864/


FARGO – North Dakota State head football coach Craig Bohl said Monday the players charged with voter fraud will face some type of discipline, just not suspension

Bohl said the players still have to go through a standard university disciplinary procedure in the wake of the charges last week.

“But that does not mean there’s not going to be some type of discipline,” he said, “either through our football office – and there will be – but moreover, the fact that they’re students. There’s a whole process they have to go through from a university standpoint.”

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/373874/


FARGO – North Dakota State starting outside linebacker Travis Beck will plead guilty Tuesday in Fargo Municipal Court to minor consuming alcohol, his attorney said.

A second charge of resisting a police officer will be dismissed as part of a plea agreement with the prosecution, defense attorney Bruce Quick said.

Beck, 20, was charged with the two Class B misdemeanors on July 23, two days after he allegedly ran from a police officer in the 1100 block of 16th Street North and entered a building, according to court documents. The incident happened at about 3:45 a.m.

[MplsBison]

Ugh. Drinking age should be 18.

[Twentysix]

Its hilarious how darell is the one who posts all this crap.

[darell1976]

Its hilarious how darell is the one who posts all this crap.

Its hilarious how its NDSU that keeps doing all this crap. Don't worry if UND gets to their level of crime you are free to post. I just find it funny (and sad) how your AD can just say no suspensions, treating this like no big deal and look another player in trouble.

[BisonBacker]

Yeah but it is in the news so I"m not going to bitch about it. Just remember everyone's team has someone who F's up sooner or later so just remember paybacks a bitch.

[darell1976]

Ugh. Drinking age should be 18.

You mean like almost every other country in the world.

[Twentysix]

Its hilarious how its NDSU that keeps doing all this crap. Don't worry if UND gets to their level of crime you are free to post. I just find it funny (and sad) how your AD can just say no suspensions, treating this like no big deal and look another player in trouble.

If UND has a 20 year old drink a beer? xlmaox That doesnt happen.

[BisonBacker]

Its hilarious how its NDSU that keeps doing all this crap. Don't worry if UND gets to their level of crime you are free to post. I just find it funny (and sad) how your AD can just say no suspensions, treating this like no big deal and look another player in trouble.

Darrel, Read the fine print. This happened last summer not just in the last few weeks. It's not like the players are saying oh look we can get away with crap and not get in trouble.

[darell1976]

Yeah but it is in the news so I"m not going to bitch about it. Just remember everyone's team has someone who F's up sooner or later so just remember paybacks a bitch.

Thats right, and you guys sling it back at us UND fans.. (Kristo's frozen foot incident, our nickname issue, Hakstol's middle finger incident).

[BisonBacker]

If UND has a 20 year old drink a beer? xlmaox That doesnt happen.
nah they just buy him boots to keep his feet warm in the snow bank the next time it happens xlolx

[darell1976]

Darrel, Read the fine print. This happened last summer not just in the last few weeks. It's not like the players are saying oh look we can get away with crap and not get in trouble.

But he had his day in court, remember Bohl telling the press about the voting fraud issue....lets wait and see until their day in court. Well there you go. A player gets in trouble before the season no suspension, court during the season and so far no suspension.

[Twentysix]

You mean like almost every other country in the world.

I think you are wrong about that, most of europe is under 18. 18 is the hard liquor drinking age.

Edit: after referencing the age chart on wikipedia, the average is probably 18.

There are a number of countries where one can drink alcohol before 18 however.

[darell1976]

nah they just buy him boots to keep his feet warm in the snow bank the next time it happens xlolx

There you go BisonBacker...thats the spirit.

[344Johnson]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/373864/



http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/373874/

I got a minor a few weeks ago. I ran when I saw the police. They didn't charge me with resisting arrest. One would think it wasn't too hard for him to get out of it either. Also, an athlete getting a minor shouldn't get an article in the paper unless he/she is suspended for it.

[BisonBacker]

I got a minor a few weeks ago. I ran when I saw the police. They didn't charge me with resisting arrest. One would think it wasn't too hard for him to get out of it either. Also, an athlete getting a minor shouldn't get an article in the paper unless he/she is suspended for it.

It doesn't happen up in Elforko Grande since nobody gives a shat about anything that happens up in that crap hole.

[darell1976]

It doesn't happen up in Elforko Grande since nobody gives a shat about anything that happens up in that crap hole.

Except Bison fans (ex. Bisonville)

[BisonBacker]

xthumbsupx
There you go BisonBacker...thats the spirit.

[Twentysix]

Except Bison fans (ex. Bisonville)

Heard your team was shut out by a bunch of girls yesterday. 3-0 or something. xlolx

[darell1976]

Heard your team was shut out by a bunch of girls yesterday. 3-0 or something. xlolx

You mean this: http://www.undsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=13500&ATCLID=205682276


GRAND FORKS, N.D. --- The University of North Dakota soccer team played to a disappointing 3-0 loss Sunday afternoon against North Dakota State in front of a new Bronson Field record crowd of 511. It was the first time the North Dakota collegiate rivals have played in Grand Forks since 2003.

[Twentysix]

You mean this: http://www.undsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=13500&ATCLID=205682276

I do. That crowd would give EMU a run for their money.

[frozennorth]

Its hilarious how its NDSU that keeps doing all this crap. Don't worry if UND gets to their level of crime you are free to post. I just find it funny (and sad) how your AD can just say no suspensions, treating this like no big deal and look another player in trouble.

Jesus christ what would you do if you knew half the **** suhaki gets away with.

[Professor Chaos]

But he had his day in court, remember Bohl telling the press about the voting fraud issue....lets wait and see until their day in court. Well there you go. A player gets in trouble before the season no suspension, court during the season and so far no suspension.
And why is a suspension warranted? I fight it comical how there are so many up in arms about how NDSU players aren't getting suspended for these things who have absolutely no stock in NDSU football. Where's the uproar that the judge only gave Beck a $500 fine? It seems obvious he's a hardened criminal who deserves suspension from the football team so shouldn't that justify more than just a fine from municipal court? Similarly, so many people with no affiliation with NDSU football are up in arms about NDSU players defrauding America and are demanding retribution from Craig Bohl and Gene Taylor yet there's very little discussion about how these guys are likely to get a small slap on the wrist from the courts.

If you donate money to Teammakers (who pays for 100% of all these kids' scholarships) or if you're a season ticket holder you have a right to complain to Taylor/Simmers if you don't agree with the way they're handling these situations and you have every right to pull your support in protest. If not, direct your complaints/criticism to the court system because it's what's representing you in this matter.

[darell1976]

And why is a suspension warranted? I fight it comical how there are so many up in arms about how NDSU players aren't getting suspended for these things who have absolutely no stock in NDSU football. Where's the uproar that the judge only gave Beck a $500 fine? It seems obvious he's a hardened criminal who deserves suspension from the football team so shouldn't that justify more than just a fine from municipal court? Similarly, so many people with no affiliation with NDSU football are up in arms about NDSU players defrauding America and are demanding retribution from Craig Bohl and Gene Taylor yet there's very little discussion about how these guys are likely to get a small slap on the wrist from the courts.

If you donate money to Teammakers (who pays for 100% of all these kids' scholarships) or if you're a season ticket holder you have a right to complain to Taylor/Simmers if you don't agree with the way they're handling these situations and you have every right to pull your support in protest. If not, direct your complaints/criticism to the court system because it's what's representing you in this matter.

Those kids...minus Beck prevented ballots from being voted on by the state. Clean water is a serious issue this isn't about pot but an environmental issue. Gene Taylor brushing this off like no big deal shows he could care less about the whole state outside of football in Fargo.

[Professor Chaos]

Those kids...minus Beck prevented ballots from being voted on by the state. Clean water is a serious issue this isn't about pot but an environmental issue. Gene Taylor brushing this off like no big deal shows he could care less about the whole state outside of football in Fargo.
Taylor suspending them doesn't put those initiatives back on the ballot. It's also pure speculation to think that they had enough votes to get them on the ballot in the first place without the bogus signatures. I'm sure some valid signatures were tossed out because they were lumped in with the invalid ones but both initiatives were well short of the necessary amount. This isn't so black and white in that no suspension means indifference to the topics at hand. This means that in Taylor's and Bohl's mind the actions of these players wasn't detrimental to the team/program to the point that it warranted a suspension. We'll see once the judge gives his sentence whether or not the court agrees with the outrage some of you seem to hold. Based on the legal opinions I've heard I don't think they will but we won't know until that decision is made. However, I'm certain that whoever the judge is won't catch near the flak that Taylor and Bohl have when he delivers his slap on the wrist.

[MplsBison]

And why is a suspension warranted? I fight it comical how there are so many up in arms about how NDSU players aren't getting suspended for these things who have absolutely no stock in NDSU football. Where's the uproar that the judge only gave Beck a $500 fine? It seems obvious he's a hardened criminal who deserves suspension from the football team so shouldn't that justify more than just a fine from municipal court? Similarly, so many people with no affiliation with NDSU football are up in arms about NDSU players defrauding America and are demanding retribution from Craig Bohl and Gene Taylor yet there's very little discussion about how these guys are likely to get a small slap on the wrist from the courts.

If you donate money to Teammakers (who pays for 100% of all these kids' scholarships) or if you're a season ticket holder you have a right to complain to Taylor/Simmers if you don't agree with the way they're handling these situations and you have every right to pull your support in protest. If not, direct your complaints/criticism to the court system because it's what's representing you in this matter.

Not saying you're wrong, because I honestly don't know, but my hunch is TM'ers do not pay for all 63 scholarships each year. Especially with out of state kids having the higher tuition rate. I think TM donates maybe a million a year.

Please do correct me.

[FargoBison]

Not saying you're wrong, because I honestly don't know, but my hunch is TM'ers do not pay for all 63 scholarships each year. Especially with out of state kids having the higher tuition rate. I think TM donates maybe a million a year.

Please do correct me.

I think TM is around 2 million.

Edit..just checked they donated $2.2 million last year.

[MplsBison]

I think TM is around 2 million.

Edit..just checked they donated $2.2 million last year.

Wow! Thanks for the info.

[Professor Chaos]

Not saying you're wrong, because I honestly don't know, but my hunch is TM'ers do not pay for all 63 scholarships each year. Especially with out of state kids having the higher tuition rate. I think TM donates maybe a million a year.

Please do correct me.
I can't find last years totals anywhere online but it was well over $2M raised last year. The last year I could find something for was 2008 when it was $2.1M (http://www.ndsu.edu/news/view/article/3956/). I'm fairly certain they've set records every year since and I think it was closer to $3M than $2M in 2011. All that money goes to fund athletic scholarships. It may not have been the full $2.85M NDSU spent on athletic scholarships in 2011 (USA Today athletic budget database (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-14/ncaa-college-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1)) but it was pretty close if memory serves me correctly.


I think TM is around 2 million.

Edit..just checked they donated $2.2 million last year.
EDIT: I could've sworn it was more than that in 2011. Oh well, I'll concede the point then that some taxpayer money is going to fund these guys' scholarships.

[DJKyR0]

Those kids...minus Beck prevented ballots from being voted on by the state. Clean water is a serious issue this isn't about pot but an environmental issue. Gene Taylor brushing this off like no big deal shows he could care less about the whole state outside of football in Fargo.

Purely for the sake of discussion (and without condoning what the players did), doesn't anyone else think that if they had to fake so many signatures on the petitions that they probably weren't going to meet the necessary number anyway?

[FargoBison]

I can't find last years totals anywhere online but it was well over $2M raised last year. The last year I could find something for was 2008 when it was $2.1M (http://www.ndsu.edu/news/view/article/3956/). I'm fairly certain they've set records every year since and I think it was closer to $3M than $2M in 2011. All that money goes to fund athletic scholarships. It may not have been the full $2.85M NDSU spent on athletic scholarships in 2011 (USA Today athletic budget database (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-14/ncaa-college-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1)) but it was pretty close if memory serves me correctly.


EDIT: I could've sworn it was more than that in 2011. Oh well, I'll concede the point then that some taxpayer money is going to fund these guys' scholarships.

It might have been more at some point but this is what I found.....


The NDSU scholarship budget this year is $3.1 million. Team Makers, which raises money for scholarships, collected $2.2 million.

http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/log/index.php/2012/03/12/some-ndsu-bison-season-ticket?blog=2

[MplsBison]

I can't find last years totals anywhere online but it was well over $2M raised last year. The last year I could find something for was 2008 when it was $2.1M (http://www.ndsu.edu/news/view/article/3956/). I'm fairly certain they've set records every year since and I think it was closer to $3M than $2M in 2011. All that money goes to fund athletic scholarships. It may not have been the full $2.85M NDSU spent on athletic scholarships in 2011 (USA Today athletic budget database (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-14/ncaa-college-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1)) but it was pretty close if memory serves me correctly.


EDIT: I could've sworn it was more than that in 2011. Oh well, I'll concede the point then that some taxpayer money is going to fund these guys' scholarships.

Does the AD rely on any money transferred from the main school fund? I would think they're pretty flush with cash after last season, but on the other hand winning takes a lot of money.

[MplsBison]

Purely for the sake of discussion (and without condoning what the players did), doesn't anyone else think that if they had to fake so many signatures on the petitions that they probably weren't going to meet the necessary number anyway?

Honestly, people shouldn't be allowed to petition votes on policy. That's why you elect politicians. They dictate policy.

If your guy doesn't win, then too bad. Try again next time.

[Professor Chaos]

It might have been more at some point but this is what I found.....


http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/log/index.php/2012/03/12/some-ndsu-bison-season-ticket?blog=2
Yeah, the $3.1M number must be the schollie budget for 2012 which the USA Today database (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-14/ncaa-college-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1) doesn't have entered yet. I see it also has a "Contributions" section that was at $2.5M in 2010 and just over $2M in 2011 so Team Maker contributions may have trended downward in 2011 for the first time in a while.


Does the AD rely on any money transferred from the main school fund? I would think they're pretty flush with cash after last season, but on the other hand winning takes a lot of money.
I'm guessing that's what the "School Funds" section of the athletics revenue is from. Which was around $6M in 2011.

[darell1976]

Purely for the sake of discussion (and without condoning what the players did), doesn't anyone else think that if they had to fake so many signatures on the petitions that they probably weren't going to meet the necessary number anyway?

They faked it cause they were too lazy to go door to door.

[344Johnson]

They faked it cause they were too lazy to go door to door.

None of us actually know everything about it.

[MplsBison]

Yeah, the $3.1M number must be the schollie budget for 2012 which the USA Today database (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-14/ncaa-college-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1) doesn't have entered yet. I see it also has a "Contributions" section that was at $2.5M in 2010 and just over $2M in 2011 so Team Maker contributions may have trended downward in 2011 for the first time in a while.


I'm guessing that's what the "School Funds" section of the athletics revenue is from. Which was around $6M in 2011.

Ah I see now, I clicked on your link. Very good info, thanks!

I wonder why, then, wouldn't the school just cut a check for exactly the amount they needed to cover expenditures? Why leave that gap?

[MplsBison]

They faked it cause they were too lazy to go door to door.

From what I gathered, the players were paid a certain amount if they met a quota. I'm sure some of them were real, but yeah they probably padded the names in order to get paid.

[Twentysix]

They faked it cause they were too lazy to go door to door.

Can you solicit door to door with a petition in ND? Also, did the hiring company break the law by offering an incentive? These are the questions Darell has never considered.

[344Johnson]

Jesus christ what would you do if you knew half the **** suhaki gets away with.

His head would do an exorcism spin. The things I have heard from friends are disgusting. Darell doesn't quite understand the fact that A.) Grand Forks is more forgiving than Fargo, and B.) his beloved UND athletes are no different than ours except in the name on their jerseys.

[frozennorth]

They faked it cause they were too lazy to go door to door.

*makes **** up*

[darell1976]

*makes **** up*

Why else would you forge signatures on a petition? Its like a kid begging his parents to buy all the candy bars he's selling so he doesn't have to do the work (go door to door).

[bisonboone11]

Why else would you forge signatures on a petition? Its like a kid begging his parents to buy all the candy bars he's selling so he doesn't have to do the work (go door to door).
The company that hired them supposedly gave them a quota to hit (which may be illegal in the state of ND). It sounds like if they didn't hit that quota, they could lose the job, or if they hit a certain number, they would receive extra money. Several people have said they saw the players out collecting signatures. Maybe they put 8+ hours/day in and didn't hit that quota specified by the company and were worried about losing the job, so they added signatures.

[darell1976]

The company that hired them supposedly gave them a quota to hit. It sounds like if they didn't hit that quota, they could lose the job, or if they hit a certain number, they would receive extra money. Several people have said they saw the players out collecting signatures. Maybe they put 8+ hours/day in and didn't hit that quota specified by the company and were worried about losing the job, so they added signatures.

I heard about the quota thing, and if you didn't get enough signatures you would be "cut". Still cutting corners just for an extra 10 bucks. Now its a year in jail and a 2,000 dollar fine they could be facing.

[bisonboone11]

I heard about the quota thing, and if you didn't get enough signatures you would be "cut". Still cutting corners just for an extra 10 bucks. Now its a year in jail and a 2,000 dollar fine they could be facing.I wasn't claiming it was right. I was giving you an answer to your question... So what do you feel is a suitable punishment from the court system?

[GlassOnion]

"The medical marijuana initiative needed 13,452 signatures and 20,092 were submitted. It ended up being more than 900 signatures short, according to Jaeger’s office.

The conservation fund, as a proposed constitutional amendment, required 26,904 signatures, and 37,785 were submitted. After losing the signatures the investigation found invalid, the petition drive came up 7,938 votes short, according to Jaeger’s office."

That is nearly 27,000 signatures that these guys made up. 27,000. That is ridiculous. The players clearly knew what they were doing was wrong, and not only is it voter fraud, but theyre stealing $ from the employer, and stealing the identity of those 27,000 people.

Its a pretty big deal. It doesnt excuse the employer from any wrong doing, but the players broke some serious rules.

[Professor Chaos]

Ah I see now, I clicked on your link. Very good info, thanks!

I wonder why, then, wouldn't the school just cut a check for exactly the amount they needed to cover expenditures? Why leave that gap?
Don't know for sure. My guess would be that the check is cut for that amount before the athletic year begins based on the budget numbers. That database only lists revenues vs expenses, not the budget.


"The medical marijuana initiative needed 13,452 signatures and 20,092 were submitted. It ended up being more than 900 signatures short, according to Jaeger’s office.

The conservation fund, as a proposed constitutional amendment, required 26,904 signatures, and 37,785 were submitted. After losing the signatures the investigation found invalid, the petition drive came up 7,938 votes short, according to Jaeger’s office."

That is nearly 27,000 signatures that these guys made up. 27,000. That is ridiculous. The players clearly knew what they were dong was wrong, and not only is it voter fraud, but theyre stealing $ from the employer, and stealing the identity of those 27,000 people.

Its a pretty big deal. It doesnt excuse the employer from any wrong doing, but the players broke some serious rules.
Those weren't the amount of signatures they made up, no one knows for sure how many it was but it was less than that. The state threw out plenty of valid signatures based on the fact that they knew some of the included signatures were forged and they didn't care to take the time to go through them one by one (and I don't blame them). I heard that when the AG investigated several players stated, for whatever their word is worth, that about half the signatures they collected were forged.

Not that it changes their incredible display of ignorance. And ignorance isn't an excuse in this case.

[darell1976]

I wasn't claiming it was right. I was giving you an answer to your question... So what do you feel is a suitable punishment from the court system?

Jail term may be harsh, I would think a fine and community service for a first offense but if these kids have a habit of getting in trouble then give them the max.

[darell1976]

"The medical marijuana initiative needed 13,452 signatures and 20,092 were submitted. It ended up being more than 900 signatures short, according to Jaeger’s office.

The conservation fund, as a proposed constitutional amendment, required 26,904 signatures, and 37,785 were submitted. After losing the signatures the investigation found invalid, the petition drive came up 7,938 votes short, according to Jaeger’s office."

That is nearly 27,000 signatures that these guys made up. 27,000. That is ridiculous. The players clearly knew what they were doing was wrong, and not only is it voter fraud, but theyre stealing $ from the employer, and stealing the identity of those 27,000 people.

Its a pretty big deal. It doesnt excuse the employer from any wrong doing, but the players broke some serious rules.

Whitepages.com is a big phone book.

[GlassOnion]

Those weren't the amount of signatures they made up, no one knows for sure how many it was but it was less than that. The state threw out plenty of valid signatures based on the fact that they knew some of the included signatures were forged and they didn't care to take the time to go through them one by one (and I don't blame them). I heard that when the AG investigated several players they said, for whatever their word is worth, that about half the signatures they collected were forged.

They submitted nearly 58,000 signaturess, If half were made up, that would mean 29,000.

[gotts]

They submitted nearly 58,000 signaturess, If half were made up, that would mean 29,000.


The players didn't submit 58,000 signatures. 58,000 were submitted petition-drive wide.

[BisonBacker]

They submitted nearly 58,000 signaturess, If half were made up, that would mean 29,000.

You clearly haven't followed this news story or just don't care to acknowledge the facts since they don't paint the situation the way you would like it to look. The players didn't submit 29000 forged signatures you are delusional. What they did was wrong but you don't need to try to make it look worse than it already is unless of course you have an agenda which it appears you clearly do. Just don't let the facts get in the way of the smear campiagn you are wagering. xblahx

[BisonBacker]

The players didn't submit 58,000 signatures. 58,000 were submitted petition-drive wide.
Don't try to confuse him with facts. Facts aren't important when you have a smear campaign to wager.

[GlassOnion]

The players didn't submit 58,000 signatures. 58,000 were submitted petition-drive wide.

I see what you mean, but if only 10 people are being charged, it suggests that the vast majority of fraudulent signatures came from those 10, would it not?

Throw in a couple thousand honest mistakes, and there is still over 20,000 signatures that should not have been there.

[gotts]

I see what you mean, but if only 10 people are being charged, it suggests that the vast majority of fraudulent signatures came from those 10, would it not?

Throw in a couple thousand honest mistakes, and there is still over 20,000 signatures that should not have been there.

Now you're assuming that every signature that wasn't counted was thrown out because it was forged. That's not the case either. Yes, there are fraudulent signatures, but I'm going to reserve judgement on an individual basis once I can be told how many signatures each person forged himself.

I know it's wrong to forge, but forging 30 signatures to get 2 days bonuses is a lot different than forging 2000 signatures to get weeks worth of bonuses. That would tell me that in one case, someone was putting the work in on a more consistent basis, may have caught wind of what others were doing and decided the relativity of it wasn't as severe.

I'm not saying it excuses the behavior, but it's kind of akin to seeing a guy pass you doing 90 in a 75, then you bump your speed up to 80. You may think it's justified since it isn't as bad as what the other guy is doing, but you're still breaking the law.

For the record, I speed like a mofo.

[darell1976]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/373670/

Here is every player charged and what percent was forged and how they forged it. What it doesn't say is how many signatures they turned in.


Following is a list of the individuals charged and information contained in court documents about their individual cases:



• Lucas Albers, address and precise age not available.

Albers admitted to an investigator that while collecting signatures for the Clean Water, Lands and Outdoor Heritage Fund initiative, he forged names on some petitions.

He estimated 25 percent of the signatures he turned in were forged, getting some of the names out of phone books and making up others.


• Aireal Boyd, 22, Fargo.

Boyd told investigators that while working as a petition circulator for an initiated measure seeking to legalize marijuana for medical use he forged names on petitions and had friends forge additional names.

Boyd said he felt pressure to reach his quota of signatures and did not know how many signatures he forged, just that he turned in more legitimate signatures than forged signatures.


• William John Brown, 24, Fargo.

Brown admitted to an investigator that about 20 percent of the signatures he gathered for the conservation fund initiative were forged and not the signatures of qualified voters.


• Don Eugene Carter, 20, Fargo.

Carter told an investigator that while working on the conservation fund petition drive he forged about 10 to 15 percent of the signatures he turned in.

He said he made up the names.


• Joshua Colville, Fargo, precise age not available.

Colville told an investigator that he heard about a job opportunity as a petition circulator for the conservation fund measure from teammates on the North Dakota State University Bison football team.

He said most of the signatures he collected were legitimate, but admitted some names came from a phone book, or were the names of people he knew.

When asked about a woman named Katherine Ranft, the notary public listed on the petitions he turned in, Colville said he did not know who she was.


• Joshua Rashaud Gatlin, Fargo, precise age not available.

Gatlin told an investigator that every signature he turned in for the medical marijuana initiative was forged.

He said he and his friends passed around a phone book and signed names from the book to fill up their petitions.


• Demitrius Gray, 18, Fargo.

Gray told an investigator that during the last few weeks he circulated petitions for the conservation fund he began forging names in order to get the number of signatures his supervisor, Josh Weatherspoon, wanted.

Gray said he used a phone book to come up with the names.


• Jennifer Marlene Krahn, Fargo, precise age not available.

Krahn told an investigator that she obtained most of her signatures from qualified voters, but admitted she wrote down a few names of people who did not sign the petitions themselves.

Krahn said she felt pressured to meet expectations and estimated 30 to 50 signatures on the petitions she handed in were invalid.

Krahn said she was given petitions to circulate immediately after interviewing for the job and she did not receive any training regarding the rules of circulating petitions.

Krahn was part of the petition drive behind the conservation fund measure.


• Darren McNorton Jr., 23, Fargo.

McNorton told an investigator that about 25 percent of the signatures he gathered for the conservation fund initiative were names he forged and not the signatures of qualified voters.


• Samuel Olantunjio Ojuri, 21, Fargo.

Ojuri told an investigator that after an interview and a 20-minute orientation with Katherine Ranft he was put to work circulating petitions for the conservation fund initiative.

He said he was paid by the hour and not by the signature. He added it was his understanding that anyone not “up to par” on their signature count would be fired.

Ojuri told the investigator he forged 30 to 40 percent of the signatures he turned in.


• Brendin Pierre, 21, Fargo.

Half of the signatures Pierre turned in as part of the petition drive for the medical marijuana measure were legitimate, according to a statement Pierre made to an investigator.

He said he forged signatures to get the quota of signatures he needed, using a phone book to come with the names.


• Antonio Rogers, 21, Fargo.

Rogers told an investigator that after taking a job circulating petitions for the medical marijuana measure, he found it difficult to find people willing to support the cause.

He admitted that he forged some signatures, telling the investigator he had no idea how many of the signatures on his petitions were forged and how many were legitimate.


• Charles Smith III, 19, Fargo.

Smith told an investigator that 65 to 70 percent of the signatures he turned in for the conservation fund initiative were forged. He stated he and friends who were also circulating petitions made up names and used phone books to come up with addresses.


• Bryan Shepherd, 21, Fargo.

Shepherd told an investigator he circulated petitions for the medical marijuana imitative and reported to the campaign’s director, Dave Schwartz.

Shepherd told the investigator there did not appear to be any structure to the process for obtaining signatures and he said most of the signatures he turned over to Schwartz were forged.

Shepherd said he forged names in order to get the quota of signatures he needed.


• Marcus Williams, 21, Fargo.

Williams told an investigator he forged signatures on some of the petitions he circulated for the medical marijuana measure.

He said Schwartz, whom he reported to, did not give him any direction on what to do, other than to tell him to go to any bank to get the petitions notarized.

Williams said more than half of the signatures he turned in were forged.

[MplsBison]

Hardened felons. Every last one.

Lock em up and throw away the key.

[GlassOnion]

Don't try to confuse him with facts. Facts aren't important when you have a smear campaign to wager.

Why the hell would I have a "smear campaign?" I have no ax to grind against NDSU, I have no connection to NDSU, or anyone who does have a connection to NDSU. Im about as unbiased regarding the issue as you can possibly get. So you can take your "smear campaign" and shove it.

[GlassOnion]

Now you're assuming that every signature that wasn't counted was thrown out because it was forged. That's not the case either. Yes, there are fraudulent signatures, but I'm going to reserve judgement on an individual basis once I can be told how many signatures each person forged himself.

I know it's wrong to forge, but forging 30 signatures to get 2 days bonuses is a lot different than forging 2000 signatures to get weeks worth of bonuses. That would tell me that in one case, someone was putting the work in on a more consistent basis, may have caught wind of what others were doing and decided the relativity of it wasn't as severe.

I'm not saying it excuses the behavior, but it's kind of akin to seeing a guy pass you doing 90 in a 75, then you bump your speed up to 80. You may think it's justified since it isn't as bad as what the other guy is doing, but you're still breaking the law.

For the record, I speed like a mofo.

I dont think the guys should have their lives ruined from this, but it is a very serious charge. I dont know exactly how many they turned in, but I imagine its probably in the hundreds per each one of them. I dont think a company would pay and expect a mere 100 total sigs from each of these guys.

As posted above, Im seeing what, 1 or two that forged ALL, and a bunch of others that are talking ~50% when you average them out.

Imagine if this had been about something deadly serious, like abortion. Whether your Pro or anti, wouldnt you be livid if someone used your good name to endorse the opposite side?

[BisonBacker]

Why the hell would I have a "smear campaign?" I have no ax to grind against NDSU, I have no connection to NDSU, or anyone who does have a connection to NDSU. Im about as unbiased regarding the issue as you can possibly get. So you can take your "smear campaign" and shove it.


Well based on the crap you post you wouldn't know a fact if it slapped you in the face.

[GlassOnion]

Well based on the crap you post you wouldn't know a fact if it slapped you in the face.

You've read what, 3 posts of mine?

Judging by your posts, your a pin-head.

Nice PM. Go ahead, Im trembling with anticipation of the **** storm. Do your best you intellectual mole.

[Twentysix]

I see what you mean, but if only 10 people are being charged, it suggests that the vast majority of fraudulent signatures came from those 10, would it not?

Throw in a couple thousand honest mistakes, and there is still over 20,000 signatures that should not have been there.

No, because people who are bothered by circulators make up names. You are confusing invalid signatures and forged signatures signed by people be asked, with ones copied out of the phone book. If I signed a signature john smith on one of those petitions it is forged, but not by the circulator.

[BisonBacker]

You've read what, 3 posts of mine?

Judging by your posts, your a pin-head.

I hope you never serve on a jury based on comments you have made.

[GlassOnion]

No, because people who are bothered by circulators make up names. You are confusing invalid signatures and forged signatures signed by people be asked, with ones copied out of the phone book. If I signed a signature john smith on one of those petitions it is forged, but not by the circulator.

Fair enough, so not 20,000, but judging by what the players have said in the above posts, still pretty darn serious. Something a ~20 years old should know. Petitions and votes can make serious changes to lives, this time it was for Mary Jane and the environment, What is it next time? I think that will be the reasoning behind charging them. Voter fraud is a very contentious issue on the national scene right now anyways.

[Professor Chaos]

I dont think the guys should have their lives ruined from this, but it is a very serious charge. I dont know exactly how many they turned in, but I imagine its probably in the hundreds per each one of them. I dont think a company would pay and expect a mere 100 total sigs from each of these guys.

As posted above, Im seeing what, 1 or two that forged ALL, and a bunch of others that are talking ~50% when you average them out.

Imagine if this had been about something deadly serious, like abortion. Whether your Pro or anti, wouldnt you be livid if someone used your good name to endorse the opposite side?
You have a right to your opinion but I don't think it's as bad as you're making it out to be. What this petition would've done is put these initiatives on the ballot. Therefore, it would've given every voter in the state the right to voice their opinions on it in the November general election. As I said earlier in this thread, I don't consider voter fraud like this to be nearly as big of a deal as if it was voter fraud on the same scale in a general election.

IMO, and as others have already pointed out, the travesty here is people who worked hard and financed the drive to get these initiatives on the ballot for the general election had their efforts dashed because a few petition circulators didn't use common sense.

[GlassOnion]

You have a right to your opinion but I don't think it's as bad as you're making it out to be. What this petition would've done is put these initiatives on the ballot. Therefore, it would've given every voter in the state the right to voice their opinions on it in the November general election. As I said earlier in this thread, I don't consider voter fraud like this to be nearly as big of a deal as if it was voter fraud on the same scale in a general election.

IMO, and as others have already pointed out, the travesty here is people who worked hard and financed the drive to get these initiatives on the ballot for the general election had those efforts dashed because a few circulators didn't use common sense.

About 50% of people dont vote at all. If you put 100 names straight out of the phone book, 50 of those likely wont show up, but the people that put forward those measures, Marijuana and the environment, will show up disproportionally BECAUSE those measures are on the ballot, unless, advertisements and news stories stir up an anti- movement.

Like you say, just an opinion, and how I see it.

[darell1976]

According to KFGO radio...Atty General Wayne Stenjeum and Sec of State Al Jaeger are now thinking of raising the penalty of this type of crime. If they did it would not affect this case but future incidents.

http://www.kfgo.com/news-details.php?ID=0000010602

[BisonBacker]

xdeadhorsex
According to KFGO radio...Atty General Wayne Stenjeum and Sec of State Al Jaeger are now thinking of raising the penalty of this type of crime. If they did it would not affect this case but future incidents.

[darell1976]

xdeadhorsex

If you don't like what I post in this thread don't click on it. I know it hurts Bison fans, but don't worry you will get over it.

[BisonBacker]

If you don't like what I post in this thread don't click on it. I know it hurts Bison fans, but don't worry you will get over it.

Right back at ya. If ya don't like what I post don't read or click on it. I'm just stating a fact. You are beating a dead horse. But if it makes you feel good keep on keeping on and fight the good fight.