FCS Playoffs Expands to Field Of At Least 24

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/fcs-football/251-fcs-playoffs-expands-to-field-of-at-least-22


Women’s rowing is one of three Division I sports whose championship brackets will expand in 2013. In August, the NCAA Executive Committee approved a budget that included a recommendation from the Division I Championships/Sport Management Cabinet to expand championships in the Division I Football Championship Subdivision, women’s lacrosse and rowing.

For the FCS championship, all 11 conference champions receive automatic qualification into the bracket. The remaining 13 teams are selected at large.

Welcome, PFL!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Mods, can you change title to: FCS Playoffs Expands to Field Of At Least 22

EDIT: Thanks!

[WeAreNorthDakota]

Looks like 24 teams with 8 seeded with 1st round byes. How does "at least 22" come in to play?

[WileECoyote06]

Just like Division II. I wonder if they will go more regional or lift the mandate that disallows conference mates to meet each other before the quarterfinals?

[Dane96]

You mean 24?

[Mr. C]

How about giving the Ivy League an auto bid to make it 12 and 12. Time for the old geezers to approve postseason play.

[dgtw]

The women's lacrosse and rowing playoffs just got devalued by their playoff expansion. A playoff spot in those sports just doesn't mean what it used to anymore.

[UNH Fanboi]

Just like Division II. I wonder if they will go more regional or lift the mandate that disallows conference mates to meet each other before the quarterfinals?

Conference mates can already play each other in the round of 16--they just can't be matched up together if it is both teams' first playoff game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

24 it is! xthumbsupx

If the Mods could edit the title here too, I'd be grateful.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How about giving the Ivy League an auto bid to make it 12 and 12. Time for the old geezers to approve postseason play.

Think there's any additional pressure on them now to sign up for the postseason? Not that I think they will overturn their completely senseless and unjustifiable ban on the FCS playoffs, but perhaps with all their OOC competition now playing postseason ball....

[BucBisonAtLarge]

The women's lacrosse and rowing playoffs just got devalued by their playoff expansion. A playoff spot in those sports just doesn't mean what it used to anymore.

Women's lacrosse is expanding, and women's rowing has been woefully under-representational, with a exclusive clan of schools perennially advancing to the championship, and conference championships meaningless in the process.

[DetroitFlyer]

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/fcs-football/251-fcs-playoffs-expands-to-field-of-at-least-22



Welcome, PFL!

Well, it has been a long time coming. The 2013 season is already looking exciting. You can bet your bottom dollar that the likes of USD, Drake, JU, Dayton, and the rest of the league will be working overtime to earn the PFL's first ever bid to the FCS playoffs. Have to thank the NEC once again for blazing the trail. Now, how sweet would it be if a PFL team received an at large this season...?

[bluehenbillk]

Now, how sweet would it be if a PFL team received an at large this season...?

:) :) :) :) :) :)

[caribbeanhen]

Delaware
JMU
Nova
Richmond
W&M
SB
Albany
Maine
UNH

9 from the CAA

[Saint3333]

24 teams what a joke, this division is turning into the BCS where everyone goes to the postseason.

[Dane96]

Oh shut up and quit your whinning.

68 teams make it from the 345 NCAA basketball schools. About 100 of those 345 are g-d awful with no shot to win even the play-in game. So....68 teams make it out of 245 or so teams. That percentage is putrid compared to the FCS playoffs. And Bowl games....sheeeet (best The Wire impression)....70+ teams make it I believe out of what, 120 FBS teams?!?!?

Come on now....

And in this instance, w/o autobids UA and SBU would likely not have made the playoffs as at-larges despite their solid seasons. Those two teams arguably played one of the best football games of the entire playoffs in front of a sold-out rabid stadium under the lights.

The winner went on to play a tremendous game against a finalist.

You people act like this is letting in a non-qualifier to Harvard. BIG ****ING DEAL...you get an extra football game to watch. Diminishes the playoffs. The only thing diminishing the playoffs is the erroneous logic of some members of this board.

[danefan]

Oh shut up and quit your whinning.

68 teams make it from the 320 or so from NCAA Hoops. About 100 of those 320 are g-d awful.

And in this instance, w/o autobids UA and SBU would likely not have made the playoffs as at-larges despite their solid seasons. Those two teams arguably played one of the best football games of the entire playoffs in front of a sold-out rabid stadium under the lights.

The winner went on to play a tremendous game against a finalist.

You people act like this is letting in a non-qualifier to Harvard. BIG ****ING DEAL...you get an extra football game to watch. Diminishes the playoffs. The only thing diminishing the playoffs is the erroneous logic of some members of this board.

/end thread

[UNDColorado]

I may have missed this but why exactly do the Ivy and SWAC not compete in the playoffs?

[TheValleyRaider]

this division is turning into the BCS where everyone goes to the postseason.

.....You do know how the BCS works, right? xconfusedx

[skinny_uncle]

The more, the merrier.

[Dane96]

Danefan: Had to add some more facts to support....you know us lawyers ;)

Now we can end the thread...or it could continue with some of the "bad" JMU fans saying how Albany and Stony Brook suck and have diminished the CAA by our presences in 2014...and the world will end.

T.I.C. to all the great JMU fans out there...

[Dane96]

I may have missed this but why exactly do the Ivy and SWAC not compete in the playoffs?

SWAC can't compete b/c they have their big game at the end of the year that coincides with the playoffs. Can't do both. But the money is massive for that game.

They IVY's stick their collective noses in the air with cries of withering academics caused by the NCAA Foooozball playoffs. The hypocrisy--when comparing March Madness to the FCS playoffs--is amusing.

[TheRevSFA]

Oh shut up and quit your whinning.

68 teams make it from the 345 NCAA basketball schools. About 100 of those 345 are g-d awful with no shot to win even the play-in game. So....68 teams make it out of 245 or so teams. That percentage is putrid compared to the FCS playoffs. And Bowl games....sheeeet (best The Wire impression)....70+ teams make it I believe out of what, 120 FBS teams?!?!?

Come on now....

And in this instance, w/o autobids UA and SBU would likely not have made the playoffs as at-larges despite their solid seasons. Those two teams arguably played one of the best football games of the entire playoffs in front of a sold-out rabid stadium under the lights.

The winner went on to play a tremendous game against a finalist.

You people act like this is letting in a non-qualifier to Harvard. BIG ****ING DEAL...you get an extra football game to watch. Diminishes the playoffs. The only thing diminishing the playoffs is the erroneous logic of some members of this board.

I wish I could rep this over and over again. This is so good, it has to be fattening.

[AmsterBison]

Just like Division II. I wonder if they will go more regional or lift the mandate that disallows conference mates to meet each other before the quarterfinals?

I hope not.

I hate the idea of the FCS going to a regional playoff system, but that's probably because I suffered through D2's abortion of a system - it was so bad that it became a major argument for NDSU moving to DI. Plus, I hate regular season rematches in the playoffs (semi and champ game rematches are unavoidable, of course.)

If the FCS goes to regions, I sure hope they just go with two regions (East/West or North/South.)

[danefan]

There is no indication of going to a regional structure. It was considered and rejected.

There will be 8 seeds that get first round byes and home games.
Opening round is the bottom 16 teams, paired together the same as always (by proximity) and with home games bid out.

[dgtw]

Women's lacrosse is expanding, and women's rowing has been woefully under-representational, with a exclusive clan of schools perennially advancing to the championship, and conference championships meaningless in the process.

My comment was intended to be sarcastic, poking fun at those who freak out over expanded playoffs.

[NHwildEcat]

Now that this is settled, I hope the NCAA can turn their attention towards the Water Polo tourney and see if they can expand that from just 4...I want (no demand) at least five teams!

Then they can focus on bowling...damn.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

So we went from 13% of the field or so (16 teams) to almost 17% (20 teams), and now we'll be at 20% (24 teams). Big *****ing deal. 1/5th of the field is a good number; nowhere near 'participation trophies' bowl games where 50+% of the field is invited. It doesn't water down anything, as there is still only one champion crowned. If your team is worthy enough to win it, they're not going to lose to those last 4 spots.

[asumike83]

Oh shut up and quit your whinning.

68 teams make it from the 345 NCAA basketball schools. About 100 of those 345 are g-d awful with no shot to win even the play-in game. So....68 teams make it out of 245 or so teams. That percentage is putrid compared to the FCS playoffs. And Bowl games....sheeeet (best The Wire impression)....70+ teams make it I believe out of what, 120 FBS teams?!?!?

Come on now....

And in this instance, w/o autobids UA and SBU would likely not have made the playoffs as at-larges despite their solid seasons. Those two teams arguably played one of the best football games of the entire playoffs in front of a sold-out rabid stadium under the lights.

The winner went on to play a tremendous game against a finalist.

You people act like this is letting in a non-qualifier to Harvard. BIG ****ING DEAL...you get an extra football game to watch. Diminishes the playoffs. The only thing diminishing the playoffs is the erroneous logic of some members of this board.

I was never a proponent of playoff expansion but that was a great post! Reps for you.

If nothing else, this deserves the rep points:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70eU840lc38

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So we went from 13% of the field or so (16 teams) to almost 17% (20 teams), and now we'll be at 20% (24 teams). Big *****ing deal. 1/5th of the field is a good number; nowhere near 'participation trophies' bowl games where 50+% of the field is invited. It doesn't water down anything, as there is still only one champion crowned. If your team is worthy enough to win it, they're not going to lose to those last 4 spots.

I remember when the field was at 16, the FCS playoffs was statistically the most difficult NCAA postseason to qualify for. At 20%, I don't think it's the hardest anymore, but it's still one of the hardest.

[Walkon79]

Totally ok with the expansion and an even number of bye teams into the second round. 5 seeded teams never made sense to me.

[dgtw]

The actual percentage is higher than 20% since 18 schools do not participate in the playoffs.

[Saint3333]

Oh shut up and quit your whinning.

68 teams make it from the 345 NCAA basketball schools. About 100 of those 345 are g-d awful with no shot to win even the play-in game. So....68 teams make it out of 245 or so teams. That percentage is putrid compared to the FCS playoffs. And Bowl games....sheeeet (best The Wire impression)....70+ teams make it I believe out of what, 120 FBS teams?!?!?

Come on now....

And in this instance, w/o autobids UA and SBU would likely not have made the playoffs as at-larges despite their solid seasons. Those two teams arguably played one of the best football games of the entire playoffs in front of a sold-out rabid stadium under the lights.

The winner went on to play a tremendous game against a finalist.

You people act like this is letting in a non-qualifier to Harvard. BIG ****ING DEAL...you get an extra football game to watch. Diminishes the playoffs. The only thing diminishing the playoffs is the erroneous logic of some members of this board.

That's like saying a 16 seed in the NCAA tournament played a finalist in the basketball tournament, great point dane.

18 teams choose not to participate, another 10 don't offer scholarships, another 10 only offer 40 scholarships. Is 68/245 really a putrid percentage given 24 teams will make it out of ~90 teams at the FCS level?

A division that doesn't make money will now lose even more good call NCAA.

There are too many teams that make bowl games, about 30 too many, and now 8 too many teams in the FCS playoffs.

Your logic says that there are too many bowl games and also includes the fact that two additional playoffs games are a good thing and enhances the playoffs. I like my cake and eat it too.

Sack up play quality out of conference opponents and EARN a playoff spot. But you don't have to worry about that anymore.

[Go...gate]

Glad to see the expansion and very happy for the PFL.

So this leaves the SWAC and Ivy as the last holdouts, right?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That's like saying a 16 seed in the NCAA tournament played a finalist in the basketball tournament, great point dane.

18 teams choose not to participate, another 10 don't offer scholarships, another 10 only offer 40 scholarships. Is 68/245 really a putrid percentage given 24 teams will make it out of ~90 teams at the FCS level?

Let's be clear:

* 11 schools choose not to participate (Ivy League, Grambling, Southern, Alabama State)
* 7 schools are eligible, but cannot participate if they are eligible for a conference championship game (SWAC minus Grambing, Southern, Alabama State)

Lumping in non-scholarship and limited-scholarship schools into the "putrid" category is simply arrogant, and completely contrary to Dane96's point, who is entirely basing his definition of "putrid" where it should be, wins and losses.

And take it from a Lehigh fans - 15 seeds can, and do, beat 2 seeds. Which is the entire point.

[Tod]

Glad to see the expansion and very happy for the PFL.

So this leaves the SWAC and Ivy as the last holdouts, right?

If I was dictator, I'd force them to play. I'd make a rule stating that if your school participates in any NCAA post-season tournaments, it must do so for all sports offered at the school.

[Pard4Life]

If the Ivy does not want to participate, who cares. I'm tired of wasting air on their arrogance.

[Saint3333]

Let's be clear:

* 11 schools choose not to participate (Ivy League, Grambling, Southern, Alabama State)
* 7 schools are eligible, but cannot participate if they are eligible for a conference championship game (SWAC minus Grambing, Southern, Alabama State)

Lumping in non-scholarship and limited-scholarship schools into the "putrid" category is simply arrogant, and completely contrary to Dane96's point, who is entirely basing his definition of "putrid" where it should be, wins and losses.

And take it from a Lehigh fans - 15 seeds can, and do, beat 2 seeds. Which is the entire point.

Read more carefully. I only excluded the non-scholarship teams in my calculation and the gap between the playoff teams (16) and them I would argue is wider than the gap in the bottom 100 in bball. That is by choice, they are bad, that isn't arrogant it's just reality.

16 was the right number.

[Tod]

You would just push us toward eliminating football or leaving the NCAA. Is that what you would prefer?

I am constantly surprised by how much animosity this creates. I understand that there are arguments for postseason play, and yeah, I get that folks are going to point to arrogance as the explanation, since it requires the least study of the situation. But I don't understand why people care: it hurts nobody else in any way if we forfeit our slot in the playoff every year. It actually gives somebody else an extra slot.

In response to your first paragraph, yes.

Except I don't think that's what would happen.

[dgtw]

So why is it OK to disrupt class to play in the basketball and baseball tournaments but not the football tournament? If you are opposed to the postseason, that's fine. But don't get all high and mighty about it when you dirty your hands in every other postseason.

[Saint3333]

I have more respect for those programs that choose not to participate than those that choose to without the full resources (scholarships). If you want play step up, yes I am for FCS minimums.

[Dane96]

NM

[UNH Fanboi]

I dont understand why fans of non-Ivy schools care so much about the Ivies not participating. Yes, their stated reasons make no sense and are hypocritical, but that's their business.

[Dane96]

Please...your defense of the IVY Playoff ban has some valid points...but as someone who spent a week with UF on their infamous 1990's Final Four run (with Dimitri Hill)...your second bullet is ridiculous. My friend was the academic tutor for that team. If you are deep into the NCAA tourney...you are basically out of school for four weeks. Baseball a bit less. I watched, DRANK, played NBA Jam, hung at a pool...etc. with these guys. Andrew DeClerq, was about the only guy who studied his *** off. So I ask what's worse: a team of relatively uber intelligent IVY League players missing a few days of study time per week prior to finals...and I bet they really aren't b/c most schools bring their academic advisers on trips, or players missing CORE CLASS TIME IN THE MIDDLE OF THE YEAR.

You don't learn before finals...you re-emphasize. You learn during the year...precisely when March Madness occurs. I would bet if the Ivies were not receiving their units for Madness $$$$ they would not participate in that tourney. But, that tourney--compared to the FCS Playoffs--generates massive revenue and alumni pride to the schools that they would NEVER, EVER give up.

With the FCS playoffs...you are HOME...except for Thurs, Friday and Saturday times a few weeks.

It's a ridiculous argument for anyone who has any affiliation with the impact of both tournaments, and it disturbs many intelligent people when this argument is utilized as a core reason why the Ivy's don't participate.

Personally, I don't care if they participate or not.

[MplsBison]

I'm not actually 100% sold on the Ivy League's football postseason ban. But I am pretty convinced that they've thought it through, and continue to think it through, and that it has very little to do with fearing "dirty hands." There are some big reasons football's not like other sports.


Over the past sixty years, football's only moved in one direction: toward more professionalism, more money, and teams that look less and less like the rest of the student body. Only basketball even comes close in this regard, and we've actually managed to remain fairly competitive in basketball, due to the low number of players and the smaller premium college basketball places on size and speed. Last year Princeton beat FSU, for example, and the year before we were within one shot of upsetting Kentucky in the tournament. But we're not nationally competitive in football, and there's no way we will reverse that trend. We've committed to playing schools that share parts of our athletic philosophy and look a little like us, since it's meaningless to play schools that could compete at the FBS level if they chose. In the FCS playoff, we couldn't maintain that commitment. While there are some arguments for the playoffs I respect, I actually don't think there's anything inherently competitive about us signing up to take beatings from state flagships and land-grant schools with 60+ scholarships.
You mention class disruptions. There are enormous differences between baseball and basketball and football. A football roster really is huge, compared to the other sports. And the football playoffs do really occur at the end of the year, when we're preparing for finals, which we have after the holidays.
The Ivy League already had a shortened practice year, and is now clamping down on contact time--this year we're at two contact practices a week. Whether you share them or not, there are legitimate concerns about the health of football players, and the easiest way to answer those concerns is to limit our season to ten games. It's just not realistic to expect a conference that is really questioning the safety and worth of football in general to expand the season massively.


We're not calling out anybody who participates in the play-offs. We're not belittling anybody. Call us "high and mighty" if you like, but the animosity's totally one-sided.

No doubt you're not nationally competitive in football - but I absolutely disagree that you could not be.

How can Stanford do it?

[MplsBison]

Oh, and as for this thread: congrats to the Pioneer Football League.

May they continue never receiving an at-large.
May they never receive a seed.
May they never host a playoff game.
May they always lose in the first round.
May they never be competitive in a playoff game.


Here, here, NCAA - you've clearly done the right thing, in the name of fairness.

[Tod]

We didn't bend to give athletic scholarships. We didn't bend to go to bowl games. We haven't bent with an auto-bid to the FCS playoffs. My school gave up literally the oldest rivalry in football, with Rutgers, because it was a mismatch.

Just this year we've instituted rules further limiting football's contact practice time. Just this year we've announced a League-wide collaborative partnership to study athletic concussions. if there's any conference where football is endangered, it's ours.

If you can explain why the threat of losing access to NCAA football opponents (we play three OOC games a season, mostly against teams that now offer scholarships, who expand the gap between us every year) will force us to play in your tournament, I'm all ears. Or if you can explain some reason that it's contractually impossible to drop our football programs or just pull them from the NCAA, I'm listening.

I'm kind of disappointed that you say you'd rather see us kill football than not play in your tournament. I don't understand where that comes from.

Well, in my defense it was almost 2:00 am and I was a bit drunk. I didn't really mean that I'd like to see the Ivy League drop football rather than participate in the playoffs.

In fact, it never occurred to me that they'd even consider dropping football. It's simply that I'd like to see the Ivy League participate, and my idea was just to do some arm-twisting, not to hurt anybody.

Apologies for my miscommunication. But I still hope to see the IL and the SWAC in the playoffs. It's what FCS is all about.

[Tod]

Oh, and as for this thread: congrats to the Pioneer Football League.

May they continue never receiving an at-large.
May they never receive a seed.
May they never host a playoff game.
May they always lose in the first round.
May they never be competitive in a playoff game.


Here, here, NCAA - you've clearly done the right thing, in the name of fairness.

You're a bit of an ***, you know that?

You've listed what is likely to happen for the foreseeable future. If the PFL wants to change that, they will try to.

As a prediction this would have made sense. As a wish, it just makes you live up a bit more to your reputation.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm not actually 100% sold on the Ivy League's football postseason ban. But I am pretty convinced that they've thought it through, and continue to think it through.

Perhaps you're new to the Ivy League?

It's precisely because they haven't thought it through - and are clinging to the past - that the postseason ban persists. It's less about missed class time and more about their belief that Division I is either Florida State or nothing in terms of "football competitiveness".

The Ivy League has never really fully understood what FCS football is, and has never really tried to understand what it is.

[dgtw]

football playoff games are on Saturdays. The team could leave after class on Friday and be there for the game.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

You're a bit of an ***, you know that?

You've listed what is likely to happen for the foreseeable future. If the PFL wants to change that, they will try to.

As a prediction this would have made sense. As a wish, it just makes you live up a bit more to your reputation.

Tod, he's a complete and utter douchebag. On one had he wants only the teams and players that have earned something in his mind to have access but on the other hand he argues for limiting the size of high schools so that additional students and teams can have a chance to play.

He does not make a good or reasonable argument on anything because he thinks that being a contrarian is all he has to offer...and it may be because it's pretty easy to do. His whole game is to troll for a reaction and since that's his game he doesn't make a lot of sense and crosses himself up at every turn.

[DFW HOYA]

The Ivy playoff ban is based on three incongruous factors:

1. Protect the Harvard-Yale game.
2. Wave the banner of being serious about academics (even if the Ivy participates in every other NCAA playoff)
3. Laziness.

[DJKyR0]

Tod, he's a complete and utter douchebag. On one had he wants only the teams and players that have earned something in his mind to have access but on the other hand he argues for limiting the size of high schools so that additional students and teams can have a chance to play.

He does not make a good or reasonable argument on anything because he thinks that being a contrarian is all he has to offer...and it may be because it's pretty easy to do. His whole game is to troll for a reaction and since that's his game he doesn't make a lot of sense and crosses himself up at every turn.

First thing he'll tell you is that he's right, everyone else is wrong, and that he is utterly convinced his own opinion is always the correct one. He sees it clearly and everyone else is lost in the fog of their own prejudices.

Anyway, I feel like this conversation has been had about a dozen times before across the internets.

http://i.imgur.com/sc7vI.jpg

[Dane96]

That's pretty harsh, man.

We'd probably say that we're trying to protect the traditions of Ivy League football. The Harvard-Yale game is one piece of that. I don't see why it's wrongheaded to protect it or why other FCS fans are upset about it. I have yet to hear anyone explain how this damages other FCS schools.

We really are serious about academics. If you look hard enough for hypocrisy you'll always eventually find it, but our athletes do real work and graduate with real degrees. And we create an environment and expectations that make that possible.

I'm not even sure what you mean by lazy. Even granting you a pretty atypical definition of lazy--I'm guessing you mean that we're slow to think about new situations--there's just not much evidence. We're innovating in and growing our athletic departments, which are consistently solid in most sports except football.

Are you implying other schools don't graduate players with real degrees.

Hold on, let me get my underling...my IVY underlying to get me my coffee.

[Dane96]

No, that's not what I was implying. At all.

But I'm starting to see why there are so few Ivy League posters here.

Hey...they are here. They don't make stupid *** posts without information. And your post most certainly implied that the IVIES did not participate b/c they give out real degrees. It's right there in black and white.

What else could you have meant to get to the same conclusion you put forth.

[UAalum72]

why other FCS fans are upset about it. I have yet to hear anyone explain how this damages other FCS schools.

Not that it damages other FCS, but that FCS would be BETTER if the IL were in the playoffs, more inclusive, and with Ivy name recognition and publicity (leaves open the question as to how this helps the IL).

Also just want to tell the IL 'put up or shut up' with their simultaneous assertions (see the Ivy League forum) that 1) they have such good teams they could play with Div. I-A teams like (always) Duke, Vandy, Army, Stanford, etc. 2 ) it's beneath them to play the likes of Sacred Heart, Wagner 3 ) won't play full-scholly public I-AA like Montana, Delaware, etc.
all while in the past few years some of them have lost to Sacred Heart, Wagner, Albany, Central Conn.

[bulldog10jw]

Yeah, I have to admit that I haven't been on the Ivy League forum and definitely don't share those views.

We're pretty weak, and we're getting weaker.

Yale and Princeton are getting weaker, but I don't think Harvard or Penn are.

[DFW HOYA]

So, this is what happened:
DFW Hoya said Ivies stayed out of the playoffs in part to "wave the banner of taking academics seriously."
I said, You know, we really do take academics seriously. Our players take real classes and get real degrees.
You asked, Are you implying that other schools don't give real degrees? And then you said you were going to make your Ivy League underling get you coffee.
Then I said, No, that's not what I was implying.
Then you said, Your post most certainly implied that the the IVIES did not participate b/c they give out real degrees.

The quote was in the context of the fact that Ivy teams compete in all NCAA playoffs other than football AND get their degrees. So why can't/won't they in football?

I think H-Y has a lot to do with it.

[32counter]

Yale and Princeton are getting weaker, but I don't think Harvard or Penn are.

Yale is now the 3rd best college football team in New Haven.

University of New Haven(D-2) and Southern Connecticut State University(D-2) would easily take the Bulldogs to the woodshed.Why doesn't Yale host either in the Bowl?Would likely be embarrassing outcome.

[bulldog10jw]

Yale is now the 3rd best college football team in New Haven.

University of New Haven(D-2) and Southern Connecticut State University(D-2) would easily take the Bulldogs to the woodshed.Why doesn't Yale host either in the Bowl?Would likely be embarrassing outcome.

You answered your own question.

[Go...gate]

We didn't bend to give athletic scholarships. We didn't bend to go to bowl games. We haven't bent with an auto-bid to the FCS playoffs. My school gave up literally the oldest rivalry in football, with Rutgers, because it was a mismatch.

Just this year we've instituted rules further limiting football's contact practice time. Just this year we've announced a League-wide collaborative partnership to study athletic concussions. if there's any conference where football is endangered, it's ours.

If you can explain why the threat of losing access to NCAA football opponents (we play three OOC games a season, mostly against teams that now offer scholarships, who expand the gap between us every year) will force us to play in your tournament, I'm all ears. Or if you can explain some reason that it's contractually impossible to drop our football programs or just pull them from the NCAA, I'm listening.

I'm kind of disappointed that you say you'd rather see us kill football than not play in your tournament. I don't understand where that comes from.

If you look at future PU scheduling, you will see that non-scholarship schools like Georgetown and Davidson are replacing the PL schools that have elected to award scholarships.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm definitely open to hearing what FCS football is, and what the Ivy League fails to understand. With that said, I'm not sure you're able to speak for the motives and intentions of the Ivy League. I guess it is possible you've interacted a lot with Ivy League athletic directors and presidents.

I still don't understand how the Ivy League's decision harms Lehigh, or any other FCS school.

I never said the postseason ban harms Lehigh in particular. If anything it helps, and gives the Patriot League a recruiting point against IL schools. It's simply hypocritical, unnecessary, and is unfair to the athletes (and fans), and if you've read anything I've written on the matter you'd understand.

[MplsBison]

If you look at future PU scheduling, you will see that non-scholarship schools like Georgetown and Davidson are replacing the PL schools that have elected to award scholarships.

Georgetown is not a zero equivalency team in the NCAA's eyes.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

The Ivy playoff ban is based on three incongruous factors:

1. Protect the Harvard-Yale game.
2. Wave the banner of being serious about academics (even if the Ivy participates in every other NCAA playoff)
3. Laziness.

+1

[Go...gate]

Georgetown is not a zero equivalency team in the NCAA's eyes.

What do they give, 12 - 20 equivalencies? I saw that number on this board recently. They are much closer to the PFL and than the PL.

The point is that Princeton has made a decision to change their scheduling in favor of playing more non-scholarship programs. Colgate is off their schedules after a home and home in 2014/2015 and I understand that sadly, a series that dates to 1911 may go on hiatus. Dartmouth has pursued the same approach - they dropped UNH and Colgate.

[Go...gate]

Fair points, as far as they go, but our fans aren't clamoring for it and our players are recruited knowing there's no postseason. Not that a playoff might not be better--but nobody's being deceived, and most folks are happy with what we've got.

I admit, I'm a lifer for PU FB, just as I am for Colgate. I'll continue to see the games because, as I said in earlier posts, the whole experience is bigger than just a football game - it is more like a family tradition. No different than when I go to Andy Kerr, even if Sacred Heart now prowls the turf where Rutgers, Brown, Princeton and others once played.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I do wish, though, folks would acknowledge that the decision is driven by real concerns. Whether or not those concerns are justified is really a separate issue--you can grant that the Ivy League has these concerns without sharing them. And in doing so you can grant that the people in charge are not bad actors and conspirators, or driven by arrogance, or irrationally nostalgic.

Concerns which are, apparently, not at all present for lacrosse or basketball players at Princeton. And there's your hypocrisy.

Men's lacrosse alone last year had 45 names on the roster. While I understand not everyone will travel with the team, I have to believe 25-30 kids will travel to play in the conference tournaments and NCAAs, if not more. Double that for the women's side, and guess what - that's almost the same number of athletes as football.

A couple years ago, the Ivy League sponsored a postseason tournament for Lacrosse, and even accepted sponsorship - reversing, literally, a 50 year self-imposed ban on both, bans that were written into the Ivy Agreement of 1948. While we're not saying they're "bad actors", the lacrosse example amply demonstrates two different rules for Ivy League sports - one for football, and one for everyone else.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I would understand you a little better if you were arguing that because of our uncompetitive policies you'd like to see us kicked out of FCS. But that doesn't seem to be what you're saying. You want us in the tournament? When we don't want to be there?

What I'm saying is that the IL's decision does a great disservice to the football student-athletes, who don't have a fair chance to compete for an FCS national championship, and the IL fans, who (mostly, in my experience) would like to be able to determine how good their teams are on a national level. Like I said before, if anything it's a boon to PL schools' recruiting, who benefit somewhat by the IL's intransigence on this issue. But a robust IL participating in the FCS playoffs could make for a much more healthy college football season in the Northeast that has largely disappeared in the last 25 years.

The IL's self-imposed isolation is not the only reason that football is dying in the Northeast, but it is a large factor, IMO.