The Sad State of Princeton Football

[Go...gate]

And there appears to be little relief in sight.

http://www.nj.com/princeton/index.ssf/2012/08/princeton_football_picked_last.html

[Brad82]

What happened with Steve "The Mad Bomber" Tosches as coach?

[Sader87]

No offense, but when exactly was Princeton football really that good? Granted they were strong at times in the 1950's and 1960's but ouside of a stretch in the early/mid 1990's they've been fairly mediocre during the last 40 or so years.

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/ivyleague/princeton/yearly_totals.php

[DFW HOYA]

And there appears to be little relief in sight.

http://www.nj.com/princeton/index.ssf/2012/08/princeton_football_picked_last.html

Two years ago, lots of people were shoveling dirt on top of Georgetown's hopes to rise off the PL cellar, too.

There's always room for a turnaround at Old Nassau.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

No offense, but when exactly was Princeton football really that good? Granted they were strong at times in the 1950's and 1960's but ouside of a stretch in the early/mid 1990's they've been fairly mediocre during the last 40 or so years.

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/ivyleague/princeton/yearly_totals.php

In 2006 Princeton finished with a 9-1 record which was good enough for 16th in the final TSN poll of the year.

The last time I remember Princeton being consistently good was the early 90's when they had Keith Elias. Since then, they've had some good years but have underachieved overall based on their potential imo.

[Sader87]

16615

Where have you gone Dick Kazmaier???? Princeton turns its lonely eyes to you.

[frozennorth]

No offense, but when exactly was Princeton football really that good? Granted they were strong at times in the 1950's and 1960's but ouside of a stretch in the early/mid 1990's they've been fairly mediocre during the last 40 or so years.

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/ivyleague/princeton/yearly_totals.php

last i checked princton claims more national championships than any other school, granted that most or all of them were pre-1920.

[Sader87]

last i checked princton claims more national championships than any other school, granted that most or all of them were pre-1920.

I know they have a long and storied football past...but since the late 1960's on they've really never been a strong program for any amount of time. Their "glory days" predate my years as a HC fan as a kid in the late 1960's and 1970's. Growing up, the strongest Ivy programs were most often Dartmouth, Yale and Harvard...Princeton never seemed to be at that level.

[TheValleyRaider]

I know they have a long and storied football past...but since the late 1960's on they've really never been a strong program for any amount of time. Their "glory days" predate my years as a HC fan as a kid in the late 1960's and 1970's. Growing up, the strongest Ivy programs were most often Dartmouth, Yale and Harvard...Princeton never seemed to be at that level.

Speaking of programs that haven't been good for a while....

[TheBisonator]

Princeton was last good before when most of our grandparents were born. Like, the days when they still were trying to figure out what the game of Football WAS.

Back when McGill and Tufts were powerhouses.

[Go...gate]

No offense, but when exactly was Princeton football really that good? Granted they were strong at times in the 1950's and 1960's but ouside of a stretch in the early/mid 1990's they've been fairly mediocre during the last 40 or so years.

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/ivyleague/princeton/yearly_totals.php

Check your history for pre-1950's. Princeton was pretty good nearly every year.

They were very good in nearly all of the 1950's and 1960's.

After a long period of struggling, lean they actually became very strong under Steve Tosches in the 1990's, though Tosches was forced out at the end of the 1999 season in favor of Roger Hughes, which was a terrible mistake.

[Go...gate]

In 2006 Princeton finished with a 9-1 record which was good enough for 16th in the final TSN poll of the year.

The last time I remember Princeton being consistently good was the early 90's when they had Keith Elias. Since then, they've had some good years but have underachieved overall based on their potential imo.

Two winning seasons since Tosches left.

[Sader87]

They were good under Tosches. Very strong? Depends on your definition of very strong.

My only game at Princeton, 1988. Princeton kicks a FG with :04 left to take a 26-24 lead over HC. On the ensuing kickoff, HC pulls sort of a "Cal-Stanford" kickoff return. Tim Donovan scores from about 50 yards out. Game over, HC 30-26.

That was a good Princeton team...both of the Garrett brothers were on it. I think it was Tosches' first year there.

[DFW HOYA]

Harvard's effective use of the AI has created a two-tier structure for Ivy football, which is why former powers like Dartmouth, Princeton, Yale, and Cornell seem locked in a second tier behind Harvard, Penn, and Brown.

Still can't figure Columbia after all these years.

[bulldog10jw]

No offense, but when exactly was Princeton football really that good? Granted they were strong at times in the 1950's and 1960's but ouside of a stretch in the early/mid 1990's they've been fairly mediocre during the last 40 or so years.

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/ivyleague/princeton/yearly_totals.php

As someone who grew up a Yale fan in the '50's and early '60's when Princeton had some great teams, it's a little sad to see. Princeton was not just strong at times in those years, they were a powerhouse program from about 1947-1971. I agree though, the last 40 years have been mostly mediocre.

Unfortunately, Yale's last 30 years have also been mostly mediocre.

The Big Three is now "the Only One"

[bulldog10jw]

last i checked princton claims more national championships than any other school, granted that most or all of them were pre-1920.

Wrong. That's Yale....all pre-1930

[bulldog10jw]

Check your history for pre-1950's. Princeton was pretty good nearly every year.

They were very good in nearly all of the 1950's and 1960's.

After a long period of struggling, lean they actually became very strong under Steve Tosches in the 1990's, though Tosches was forced out at the end of the 1999 season in favor of Roger Hughes, which was a terrible mistake.

I'm pretty sure that the early '50's Princeton teams were the last Ivy teams to finish the season ranked in the top ten

[Go...gate]

I'm pretty sure that the early '50's Princeton teams were the last Ivy teams to finish the season ranked in the top ten

1950 Princeton, 9-0-0, National Champion in one Poll, Lambert Trophy, #6 nationally in AP/UPI.

1951 Princeton, 9-0-0, Lambert Trophy, #6 nationally in AP/UPI.

1952 Princeton, 8-1-0, National Top 10 much of the season, lost only to Penn 13-7, Top 20 nationally in final ranking.

[Go...gate]

They were good under Tosches. Very strong? Depends on your definition of very strong.

My only game at Princeton, 1988. Princeton kicks a FG with :04 left to take a 26-24 lead over HC. On the ensuing kickoff, HC pulls sort of a "Cal-Stanford" kickoff return. Tim Donovan scores from about 50 yards out. Game over, HC 30-26.

That was a good Princeton team...both of the Garrett brothers were on it. I think it was Tosches' first year there.

It was Tosches' second year - he had taken over for Ron Rogerson after Rogerson died of a heart attack just before the season opener. I was at Palmer Stadium that day and I was in Worcester for the 46-0 smearing HC gave them live on ESPN in 1989. Tosches never forgot it.

[RichH2]

Tigers will only improve if HC is effective. Maybe this one will be. They get pretty decent recruits altho not nearly the depth of talent as Penn and Harvard. Limited football slots? AI restrictions? Does admin want winning football?

[Go...gate]

Tigers will only improve if HC is effective. Maybe this one will be. They get pretty decent recruits altho not nearly the depth of talent as Penn and Harvard. Limited football slots? AI restrictions? Does admin want winning football?

AI restrictions and admissions have always been controversial at Princeton. Disputes over with the Admissions Director cost Tosches his job.

As far as the Administration, it is hard to tell, IMO.

[bulldog10jw]

Harvard's effective use of the AI has created a two-tier structure for Ivy football, which is why former powers like Dartmouth, Princeton, Yale, and Cornell seem locked in a second tier behind Harvard, Penn, and Brown.

Still can't figure Columbia after all these years.

Harvard and Penn, yes. Brown hasn't been that much better off than Yale the last 10-15 years or so. Maybe a few more wins, but not that many championships.

[ngineer]

last i checked princton claims more national championships than any other school, granted that most or all of them were pre-1920.

As with many schools that for one reason or another landed atop some police gazette poll, of which there were several before the AP and UPI jumped in. Even after that, we still have lived with the subjective polls until the 1970's when the NCAA finally wised up and established TRUE national champions via playoffs...of couse with the exception of semi-pros in the NFL minor leagues called the Big Ten, SEC, etc.

[ngineer]

Tis a shame as how the program has generally struggled, with some exceptions over the pas few decades. Especially now with the best stadium/facilities in the FCS.

[Sader87]

Interesting that I don't think one poster in this thread so far is somehow (fan, former player, alumnus etc) connected to Princeton.

[bulldog10jw]

Princeton needs to bring back the single wing. Their demise as an Ivy power in football began when they abandoned it after Dick Coleman left in the late '60's

[Go...gate]

Interesting that I don't think one poster in this thread so far is somehow (fan, former player, alumnus etc) connected to Princeton.

Princeton was, and still is, the home-town team. Though I bleed maroon for Colgate, I have a lot of love for the Tigers. My father (who entrusted Colgate with two of his sons) carried me into my first game at old Palmer Stadium many, many, many years ago, and he and I saw countless PU FB games until his death two years ago. PU sports was a very special thing that we shared. I am carrying on the tradition as the 2012 campaign approaches.

[Go...gate]

Princeton needs to bring back the single wing. Their demise as an Ivy power in football began when they abandoned it after Dick Coleman left in the late '60's

Agreed. They knew more about it than anybody else.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Oddly enough, I previewed Princeton this past week on LFN:

http://networkedblogs.com/ALfg2

You can't talk about the state of Princeton football without mentioning the fact that it's been incredibly snakebit by injuries, with DiBilio's tragic stroke (which he's recovering from), Jordan Culbreath's injury a few years ago, and Stephen Cody's injury a couple of years ago as well.

[ngineer]

Maybe it's a curse inflicted when Michigan stole their helmet design and now gets 'credit' for the 'unique' winged-helmet...

[Go...gate]

It is not that they have not had some success. They won or shared three Ivy titles under Tosches and one under Hughes. But much more was hoped for. Injuries and internal turmoil have upset the program over the years. Some at Princeton believe that football was made mediocre by design after coeducation in 1971, and that may be true. But even mediocre is better than the state the program is in now.

[Pard4Life]

I'm pretty sure that the early '50's Princeton teams were the last Ivy teams to finish the season ranked in the top ten

No, the last Ivy team was 9-0 Dartmouth, I think 14, in 1970. Hank Paulson was on the team I believe. I think Yale may have been the last team to receive votes in the poll during the late 70s.

[Pard4Life]

Are you kidding?! Princeton is a world beater! They own Lafayette. It's probably written into the game contract all these years to find ways to lose games in order to retain our alumni affiliate relationship with the Princeton Club of NYC.

You think Eachus running for 215 against LC and losing was bad? Marsh put up 250 on Princeton in the early 1990s and lost.

[Pard4Life]

I think 1996 was the last real era of relevance for Princeton. They tied Dartmouth in the last game of the year to share the title with the Big Green, and Columbia finished second and only lost to Princeton 3-0. Quite a bizzaro year given today.

Hughes had some successful years and teams but they could never win the big game. They kept Colgate out of the playoffs in 2002 though.

[DFW HOYA]

OK, there is some consensus that Old Nassau has seen better days on the gridiron. What do they need to do to turn it around?

[Pard4Life]

OK, there is some consensus that Old Nassau has seen better days on the gridiron. What do they need to do to turn it around?

Schedule Lafayette ten times per year of course.

[Sader87]

No, the last Ivy team was 9-0 Dartmouth, I think 14, in 1970. Hank Paulson was on the team I believe. I think Yale may have been the last team to receive votes in the poll during the late 70s.


You're right about Dartmouth 1970 but wrong on Paulsen, he graduated in '68. As a little kid I had the misfortune of seeing the Indians (I think they were still the Indians then) dismantle HC 50-14 at Fitton. They won the Lambert trophy that year which went up Paterno's you know where.

Not sure on Yale...they may have been ranked in 1981 (or receiving votes) when they were 8-0 after beating HC in a great game 29-28 and Navy earlier in the season when they then, ironically, lost to Princeton.

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/ivyleague/yale/yearly_results.php?year=1980

[Pard4Life]

1981 sticks out too. Wasnt Paulsen All-American too?

After that, you have to look at 2004 Harvard for an Ivy team anywhere near being top tier.

[Pard4Life]

OK, there is some consensus that Old Nassau has seen better days on the gridiron. What do they need to do to turn it around?

Not familiar enough with the Tigers, but I doubt the administration and athletics treats football as an afterthought. Their facility is FBS caliber and their athletics mission statement is basically try and win every sport. Their athletics program is usually among the winningest in DI, so the evidence agaisnt success is baffling. It's not like they are Lafayette. Maybe it's program leadership. Bagnoli and Murphy have been coaches for nearly 20 years.

[Sader87]

I really don't know the inner (or outer) workings on Princeton either...it does seem odd that they aren't better given their resources.

I know how you feel Go 'Gate...my Dad took us kids to games at HC and elsewhere when we were barely able to walk...he too passed away a couple of years ago...miss him every day but his love of sports lives on through us.

[bulldog10jw]

No, the last Ivy team was 9-0 Dartmouth, I think 14, in 1970. Hank Paulson was on the team I believe. I think Yale may have been the last team to receive votes in the poll during the late 70s.

That's why I said Top Ten

[Lehigh Football Nation]

People really have short memories. That 9-1 team of Hughes' in 2006 was a great team. That team was a master of controlling offensive tempo, concocting 9- and 10-minute drives to ice games, never having one offensive guy to key upon. Their "O" linemen were smallish, but quick and incredibly smart and athletic. I was there for that 31-28 win over Harvard, and it was a battle of undefeated teams that was a classic.

The problem was that there were so many moving parts on that team, and once one part didn't work, everything kind of fell apart. Jeff Terrell was replaced by some other ho-hum QBs that never could manage a game in Hughes' style, and they never really had the same types of guys at all the positions there again after that.

[Sader87]

No offense (again)...but the Princeton teams of the 2000's (like the 2006 version) were not great teams...good, maybe very good, but the Ivies really haven't had great teams in a long while.

The 2006 Princeton team pales in comparison (with respect to the rest of college football) to how good the Dartmouth, Yale and yes, Princeton teams were when they were still 1-A in the 50's, 60's and 70's.

[bulldog10jw]

People really have short memories. That 9-1 team of Hughes' in 2006 was a great team. That team was a master of controlling offensive tempo, concocting 9- and 10-minute drives to ice games, never having one offensive guy to key upon. Their "O" linemen were smallish, but quick and incredibly smart and athletic. I was there for that 31-28 win over Harvard, and it was a battle of undefeated teams that was a classic.

The problem was that there were so many moving parts on that team, and once one part didn't work, everything kind of fell apart. Jeff Terrell was replaced by some other ho-hum QBs that never could manage a game in Hughes' style, and they never really had the same types of guys at all the positions there again after that.

Actually, it was the Yale-Princeton game that was the battle in 2006, and the beginning of the end for Jack Siedlecki. That was probably the only Ivy game in recent memory besides Yale-Harvard to draw 40k.

Yale would have clinched the outright title with a win and wasted a big halftime lead and lost 34-31.....at home. One of many blown halftime leads in the Siedlecki era.

A rare win over Harvard the next week and a share of the title saved Jack temporarily, but this was the game that made many realize that Jack was not the guy.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Actually, it was the Yale-Princeton game that was the battle in 2006, and the beginning of the end for Jack Siedlecki. That was probably the only Ivy game in recent memory besides Yale-Harvard to draw 40k.

Yale would have clinched the outright title with a win and wasted a big halftime lead and lost 34-31.....at home. One of many blown halftime leads in the Siedlecki era.

A rare win over Harvard the next week and a share of the title saved Jack temporarily, but this was the game that made many realize that Jack was not the guy.

Thanks for sharing. The Yale game was odd since the Eli did jump to a lead and Princeton had to come from behind to win, which was not their usual M.O. that year. The Harvard game too was a back-and-forth affair, but was iced by one of those blasted Princeton 8-minute drives.

I think you reinforce my overall point that that Princeton team was a very, very good team. Only a letdown week at Cornell (always a tough place to play, incidentally) prevented them from going 10-0. It was not the beginning of a trend for the Tigers, but that team should not be forgotten. I'd have stacked them up against anyone else in FCS that year.

[Sandlapper Spike]

This won't help. Dibilio will not be returning to school this fall. Link (http://www.goprincetontigers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=46859&SPID=4263&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=205586614&DB_OEM_ID=10600)

[Go...gate]

People really have short memories. That 9-1 team of Hughes' in 2006 was a great team. That team was a master of controlling offensive tempo, concocting 9- and 10-minute drives to ice games, never having one offensive guy to key upon. Their "O" linemen were smallish, but quick and incredibly smart and athletic. I was there for that 31-28 win over Harvard, and it was a battle of undefeated teams that was a classic.

The problem was that there were so many moving parts on that team, and once one part didn't work, everything kind of fell apart. Jeff Terrell was replaced by some other ho-hum QBs that never could manage a game in Hughes' style, and they never really had the same types of guys at all the positions there again after that.

The only capable team during Hughes' tenure, but far from a great team.

[Go...gate]

No offense (again)...but the Princeton teams of the 2000's (like the 2006 version) were not great teams...good, maybe very good, but the Ivies really haven't had great teams in a long while.

The 2006 Princeton team pales in comparison (with respect to the rest of college football) to how good the Dartmouth, Yale and yes, Princeton teams were when they were still 1-A in the 50's, 60's and 70's.

Yes.

[TheValleyRaider]

The only capable team during Hughes' tenure, but far from a great team.

I still remember that chickens-with-our-heads-off routine we ran at the end of regulation that year before getting stuffed on the 2pt try in OT

One of a string of frustrating losses that season....

[crusader11]

No offense (again)...but the Princeton teams of the 2000's (like the 2006 version) were not great teams...good, maybe very good, but the Ivies really haven't had great teams in a long while.


Yes, but, that 2004 Harvard football team was damn good. Ryan Fitzpatrick and Clifton Dawson were unstoppable in the Ivy League and were two of the best players in I-AA. They would have been even scarier if WR Carl Morris was on that squad.

In my opinion, they could have gone deep in the playoffs that year.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Yes, but, that 2004 Harvard football team was damn good. Ryan Fitzpatrick and Clifton Dawson were unstoppable in the Ivy League and were two of the best players in I-AA. They would have been even scarier if WR Carl Morris was on that squad.

In my opinion, they could have gone deep in the playoffs that year.

Completely agree on '04 Harvard. Their +205 point margin shows how dominant they were.

Penn in '02 is the other Ivy team during last 15 years that was a legit national player imo.

Princeton in '06 and some of the other Harvard, Yale and Brown teams were solid but couldn't hang with a true Top 5 squad. The above mentioned could/would.

[TheRevSFA]

the last time Princeton was good, you could catch a game, then go wind up your car and take your gal to a talkie.

[Franks Tanks]

the last time Princeton was good, you could catch a game, then go wind up your car and take your gal to a talkie.

It has been a long time since Princeton was a national power, but if your definition of good is national power than only a handful of FCS schools were ever good.

Princeton was relevant on the college football scene well after they were a true power. They still attracted very good crowds into the 70's, and they have a living Heisman trophy winner.

[TheRevSFA]

It has been a long time since Princeton was a national power, but if your definition of good is national power than only a handful of FCS schools were ever good.

Princeton was relevant on the college football scene well after they were a true power. They still attracted very good crowds into the 70's, and they have a living Heisman trophy winner.

It's called sarcasm.

[Sader87]

That made me laugh SFA...needed that, thanks.

[Franks Tanks]

It's called sarcasm.

I am fully aware thanks, but it is a rather weak attempt, so I also assumed you used sarcasm in the context of making a larger point regarding Princeton football. Perhaps that was not the case and you just made a Jay Leno type joke and I wish I didn't reply so as to not be engaged in the current conversation.

[TheRevSFA]

I am fully aware thanks, but it is a rather weak attempt, so I also assumed you used sarcasm in the context of making a larger point regarding Princeton football. Perhaps that was not the case and you just made a Jay Leno type joke and I wish I didn't reply so as to not be engaged in the current conversation.

Tough ****. You did.

I prefer more Conan O'Brien than Jay Leno, but whichever.

[Marco]

Aside from 9-1 in 2006, Princeton has had only 5 non-losing seasons since '95.

Despite that ineptitude, they are the third winningest program in the Ivy League since its inception.

As we apply the new formula to them, they are at 162 or 5.06, presumably near the bottom of the 1AA/FCS standings.

[bulldog10jw]

Aside from 9-1 in 2006, Princeton has had only 5 non-losing seasons since '95.

Despite that ineptitude, they are the third winningest program in the Ivy League since its inception.

As we apply the new formula to them, they are at 162 or 5.06, presumably near the bottom of the 1AA/FCS standings.

Really? Since 1956? I would have thought Dartmouth, Harvard, Penn, and Yale would ALL be ahead of them......and Brown would be getting close.

[Marco]

Since 1947, although I realize the league came into existence later...

[Sader87]

Go Lehigh TU, I think you're right about 2004 Harvard...in all honesty, I was still sort of in hibernation following FCS football then as HC had been mired in the dumps for over a decade, so I don't remember them all that well. But they did beat a pretty decent Northeastern team more handily than anyone that year (including Navy) as well as a good, playoff bound Lafayette team.

I defer to the Ivy posters here but they were probably the best Ivy team in the 2000's.

[Engineer86]

Hopefully the will get back Chuck Dibilio next year at 100%, but he is out this year.

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/tom-hinkel/index.ssf/2012/08/chuck_dibilio_returns_to_nazareth_as_an_assistant_ football_coach.html

[bulldog10jw]

Hopefully the will get back Chuck Dibilio next year at 100%, but he is out this year.

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/tom-hinkel/index.ssf/2012/08/chuck_dibilio_returns_to_nazareth_as_an_assistant_ football_coach.html

That too bad. I just hope he will be able to play eventually. Super talented kid. Yale barely laid a glove on him last year.

[Pard4Life]

That's why I said Top Ten

Oops! Clearly I did not get into Yale for a reason.

I dont know why everyone seems to lement Princeton's demise.

Burn, baby, burn!!

That said, along with Texas, Princeton is probably one of the easier turn around potentials in college football.

[RichH2]

True P4L . Great school, campus and funding. If Princeton really wanted to win they could. Evidently Admin has no interest in a competitve squad much less a winning one.

[Bill]

Sader

I was there for all Lehigh- Ivy contests during the Lembo years, and I agree. That Harvard team was the best I saw in film or person!

[Pard4Life]

True P4L . Great school, campus and funding. If Princeton really wanted to win they could. Evidently Admin has no interest in a competitve squad much less a winning one.

I disagree... like I said earlier in the thread, it's a mystery why they don't win. Their athletic philosophy is to be the best in everything and it shows... even down to water polo. Football is a marquis sport so they have to care. They are not Lafayette.

[bulldog10jw]

I disagree... like I said earlier in the thread, it's a mystery why they don't win. Their athletic philosophy is to be the best in everything and it shows... even down to water polo. Football is a marquis sport so they have to care. They are not Lafayette.

Football may be a marquis sport to us and the general public. To the Ivy presidents football is the root of all that is evil.

[Go...gate]

Football may be a marquis sport to us and the general public. To the Ivy presidents football is the root of all that is evil.

Sometimes it truly seems that way....

[Pard4Life]

Welcome to the board Babar. Good to see a Princeton poster.

Did not know about the transfer rule, but the AI rule seems to make sense with regard to recruiting. Harvard is known to have a floor where they can take a couple of students several deviations below the athletic averages. Amaker and the basketball squad are an example of reduced standards. I also get the feeling that Penn does not have many Einstein's on the team.

You don't view Penn and Dartmouth as rivals? Sure it's not H-Y but Penn seems to do a good job holding court with lesser rival Cornell. Or Yale? It's the third oldest or something like that... the former president was arrested for tearing down the goalposts at Princeton.

I know basketball is the main sport, but your attedance is still strong... 40,000 for the Yale game a few years ago and Penn draws like 13,000 per game... same as Harvard.

But academics aside, I still don't get it... you can easily attract recruits because you can make the same pitch as Harvard and Penn on winning the Ivy (can't get anymore Ivy than Princeton), your facilities are the best, and there is a strong tradition of winning and titles.

[Go...gate]

Welcome, Babar. I'm a lifetime PU fan (though not a PU grad) and for those of us who remember back long enough, the decline is disheartening. I still remember 45,725 routinely filling Palmer Stadium and games where the Lambert Trophy was at stake.

[bulldog10jw]

You could argue that it might be because our alumni care less, and are consequently less likely to turn our coaches on to possible recruits. I don't know if it has that effect, but I certainly think we care less than Harvard and Yale. Result of not having a primary rival. Makes me sad.

Yale has a primary rival who they have lost to 10 out of 11 years. Certain alumni care very much and have harassed the President and the athletic director, but it hasn't done much good and isn't wide spread enough IMO. And the Football Y Association seems to have no influence, which is why I'm no longer a member.

Thirty years ago, if Yale had lost to Harvard 10 out of 11 in football, they would have run the President, AD, and coach out of town on a rail.

An alum once wrote a letter to Carm Cozza after a loss "There is a train leaving New Haven tomorrow morning. Please be UNDER it." That passion is gone.

What Y and P do need is good players, good coaching, and a supportive administration......but especially good players.

[Go...gate]

I notice the Georgetown game (Sept 21) has been moved to 7:00pm.

[Go...gate]

I'm looking forward to that game - good matchup - interesting to see how PU's rebuilding is progressing against a club that was very strong in the Patriot League last season.

[Pard4Life]

Yale has a primary rival who they have lost to 10 out of 11 years. Certain alumni care very much and have harassed the President and the athletic director, but it hasn't done much good and isn't wide spread enough IMO. And the Football Y Association seems to have no influence, which is why I'm no longer a member.

Thirty years ago, if Yale had lost to Harvard 10 out of 11 in football, they would have run the President, AD, and coach out of town on a rail.

An alum once wrote a letter to Carm Cozza after a loss "There is a train leaving New Haven tomorrow morning. Please be UNDER it." That passion is gone.

What Y and P do need is good players, good coaching, and a supportive administration......but especially good players.

But you do have a killer marketing video!

http://web.insideyalefootball.com/bulldogs/

[bulldog10jw]

But you do have a killer marketing video!



I would rather have a killer team.

[Ivytalk]

My father-in-law is in Kazmaier's Princeton class ('52). He always said that Yale was the Tigers' chief FB rival, with Harvard a distant second. Princeton alums support the program but they are getting frustrated, and the low attendance (under 10K for the 2010 Harvard game on a gorgeous October day) reflects that.

Princeton usually plays Harvard tough, even in an off-year like last year. We couldn't stop Dibilio last year and almost blew a big lead when we put the subs in. Murphy had to bring the first string O back in to get a late score that iced the game. In recent years, we've been in shootouts with them, but their defense just hasn't been there.

[Ivytalk]

I would absolutely agree. And I wish I knew more (really, any) Princetonians from that era. I think one of the problems with generating interest in the students/recent-alums is that we're getting farther and farther away from a memory of real success. Nobody tells stories of the stadium being packed...so the stadium remains mostly empty.

It was tough marrying into a Princeton family, I can tell you!xsmiley_wix

[RichH2]

Ivy I would hope you reminded them their daughtet was marrying into a Harvard family at least in futuro.

[Ivytalk]

Ivy I would hope you reminded them their daughtet was marrying into a Harvard family at least in futuro.


We've always gotten along fine. My in-laws even took us to my FIL's old Princeton eating club (Cap & Gown) a few times for a pre-game tailgate. It was a stone's throw from old Palmer Stadium.

[Ivytalk]

Princeton women. Always the right choice. And the President agrees with me.

My wife isn't a Princeton alum, but her brother is, and his daughter is entering Princeton this fall.