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TheBisonator
July 5th, 2006, 07:05 PM
As probably not many of you know, I'm an architecture student with a deep interest in sports facilities design. Lately I have been drawing up some conceptual plans of a small stadium for DII team, and it made me think about the comparisons of other facilities with each other. It made me think about what fans would prefer in a stadium, and what makes one stadium better than another. I then came up with concepts for two imaginary I-AA stadiums, each with their high and low points, and thought about which one fans of I-AA teams would prefer. I'm wondering which of the following two you would prefer to have as a facility for your team after reading the descriptions and pros/cons of each facilities' attributes. This a pretty long post, so if you have ADD or something, you probably wouldn't want to read this. Here are the descriptions:

STADIUM 1

Generally speaking, this stadium is brand new, state-of-the-art, comfortable, fan-friendly, but is very small-time. It seats 2,500 people. This stadium was built recently in the past few years, and was designed for future expansion. The field consists of a brand-new top-of-the-line SprinTurf surface, but it is the field for not just the football team, but the lacrosse and soccer team as well. The beautifully-designed football field with colourful logos on the 50 and the endzones is sewn in along with the soccer field and lacrosse. The elaborate drainage system cost a pretty penny, and even in rainy games, the field stays in awesome shape. The cost for this facility was higher than the cost would be for a normal stadium of its size.

There is a track around the stadium, though. It is made out of an orange Olympic-style hard rubber surface with 8 lanes, and is capable of hosting regional NCAA track meets. The difference about this track is that the inside of it starts only 18 feet from the sideline, because the soccer field is relatively narrow, at 65 yards wide. The distance from the football sideline to the first row of seating is 40 feet, which is only a little more than what you see in most NFL stadiums nowadays.

The 2,500-capacity seating consists of aluminum bleachers (the solid good kind with entry tunnels, wheelchair seating and an underneath concourse, not the kind you find at little league fields) that are 15 rows high from goal line to goal line on only one side of the field. These bleachers are very clean, and have no rust on them. Due to budget constraints, it had to be built as bleachers instead of a grandstand, but plans to knock it down and build a grandstand in the future are in the books. The bottom of the first row of seating is situated 6 feet above the ground, which means your head is 3-4 feet above the player's head on the home side bench. This allows you to see the whole game in the 1st row without the heads blocking the way. The problem is that you're still 40 feet from the field. The players would have to change at locker rooms right behind the end of the track at the athletic center across the street. They are nice rooms, but they are not at the stadium facility, and are a 120-yard jog from the 50-yard line. There are no lights at the time, but plans are there for expansion.

There also are tentative plans to build another set of bleachers seating 2,500 on the other side of the field to total the capacity to 5,000, and build a second pathway to them from the plaza entrance at the end. Behind the visitors bench there is a nice new brick and iron fence and the team's practice fields. Despite the low capacity, it is regularly filled up to overflowing with 3,000-plus. The fans can get really into it, but all in all, the crowd still sounds small-time. The sound system is amazing, and blares loudly and clearly. There is a new state-of-the-art Daktronics video scoreboard at one end, which is similar to the one at South Dakota State's stadium. The concessions are wide in variety, including ribs, mini-donuts, pizza, foot-long hot dogs, as well as the normal fare.

The press box/pavillion is the cornerstone of the new facility. It's a permanent structure. It is built in a very attractive post-modern architectural design, and has all available technological capabilities (Internet, phone, satellite hookup, etc.) It also has four luxury suites with all the amenities. At the first floor of the pavillion/press box, there are four restrooms (2 men, 2 women), and they are well-kept and clean. Urinals, no troughs. At the center is a small team store selling a variety of merchandise. Extra restrooms are provided by porta-potties.

There is a new landscaped plaza area behind the end entrance that serves as a place for local bands to play in concert before the game, local radio stations to do shows from, and for businesses to sell tailgating fare. Tailgating fans do their thing before the game at the lot behind the pavillion.

Pros of Stadium 1:

Clean
Structurally good
Architecturally appealing
New/State-of-the-art
A lot of additions in the future
Fan-friendly as far as atmosphere goes

Cons of Stadium 1:

Not enough seating
Aluminum bleachers instead of grandstand
Sideline too far away from 1st row
Small-time Division III feel (seats 2,500)
Multipurpose stadium
No lights
Locker rooms not at stadium site

STADIUM 2

Generally speaking, this stadium is large, looming, monstrous (for I-AA), intimidating, can hold huge crowds, but is a complete and utter ****hole. It seats 20,000 people. Think of a larger version of Lafayette's Fisher Field before its renovations. The field is grass, and not very well-kept grass, at that. It suffers from a Rhode Island situation, in that it can puddle up. There is no track. It's a football-only stadium. The place was built in the early-50's, in the time period where a lot of buildings in general today are now not kept up very well.

The 1st row is only 20 feet from the sideline, but it only goes up 3 feet from the ground. This means that the first row has their view cut off by the player's heads. The concrete and brick grandstands (each seating 10,000 on opposite sides) go up about 50 rows each, but the condition of the structure is not good. Mold and cracks in the concrete are showing. The concourses below have a dank urine smell. There are 2 restrooms under each grandstand (1 men, 1 women), and the men have to pee in a cramped trough in an old, disgusting, smelly, moldy restroom. Most available toilets are portos. The facility is not well-maintained as far as cleanliness and structure goes. The benches are made of wood, and are cracked apart in a couple of places. People often find wood splints in their pants after sitting down for a while during games. However, the concessions are basic, decent stadium fare. There are lights at the place, and they work well. Half the games are at night.

The press box is basically like Delaware's. It's a trailer on stilts. And it gets cramped in there. It's dusty in there too. The only technology in the place is telephones and wall phone jacks that you have to plug your computer in to access the Internet. The room is not TV-broadcast friendly. The visitor's coaches have to sit up on the camera deck. The scoreboard is a piece of crap from the 70's that is rusted out in places and has old ads on it. There has basically been no major changes to the place in at least 20 years except for the home team locker room.

The place averages crowds of 11,000-12,000. But for certain games, it can be a sellout of over 20,000. In either case, it feels like a big-time football atmosphere. In the 20,000-plus games, the place feels like a big-time I-A game. The crowd can get LOUD at those games. The tall size of the grandstands eludes to more of a I-A feel. The size of the place can intimidate players from visiting schools with smaller stadiums. The home team has a huge, beautiful locker room with a lounge and amenities up the wazoo underneath the home side grandstand. They enter and exit through the lower side. However, the visitor's locker room next door is a punchline. It's tiny, cramped, rusty, moldy, dirty, the showers don't work well, and has not been updated in decades. The maintenance people generally don't go in there.

There is no pre-game fan-friendly amenities and plazas like at Stadium 1. There is one paved parking lot right behind the home side grandstand. Otherwise, the rest of area around the stadium consists of a grass lot behind the other grandstand, the practice fields at one end, and a street at the other. There is still tailgating, though, although it's not a real festive atmosphere, because of no pre-game amenities.

Pros of Stadium 2:

Big-time feel (seats 20,000)
Large and looming
Can be intimidating to opposing players
Beautiful home locker room
Football-ONLY stadium
NO track
It has lights

Cons of Stadium 2:

The place is dilapidated
A. Press box
B. Visitors locker room
C. Concourses
D. Structure in general
E. Scoreboard
F. Restrooms
Bad view of field from 1st row
Mostly porta-potties
Not tailgating-friendly
Not very-well maintained

So now is the time to make up your mind after getting all the details: If you had a choice for your team to play in either Stadium 1 or Stadium 2, which would it be??

GeauxColonels
July 5th, 2006, 07:07 PM
What....no pictures?:D

TheBisonator
July 5th, 2006, 07:13 PM
What....no pictures?:D

You're gonna have to use your imagination.:rotateh:

RabidRabbit
July 5th, 2006, 07:31 PM
Much depends on the situation of the school. If the average attendence is in the 11k range, in no way shape or form do you cram into a 2500 capacity stadium. Don't care how beautiful. Growth capacity was to 5k, again, too small.

Now if you're a small school, with big promise, either no football or average 2k per game, then the new stadium, with growth capacity works.

Too many details missing to come to informed judgement.

Likewise, as a visiting school, I would like the bigger crowd. My :twocents:

TheTribeHasSpoken
July 5th, 2006, 07:34 PM
What....no pictures?:D
Haha! I thought the exact same thing. I only got 1 1/2 sentences in so I guess I'm in the ADD group

MSUBear42
July 5th, 2006, 07:36 PM
Did you search for MSU's plaster field for the description of the 2nd one?? haha, just kidding.

It's a tough decision, but I would have to go with the second one because with a school that has 1A in it's mind, you have to think bigger facility that can be renovated instead of smaller one that can be added too.

TheBisonator
July 5th, 2006, 07:43 PM
I hope I didn't turn anyone away with my details and descriptions. This topic has only been in my mind for a couple days now, and it's hard to make a bunch of drawings in that short period of time to help describe visually what I'm talking about.

Cocky
July 5th, 2006, 07:57 PM
I perfer 1 as long as I can get a ticket. I could careless how many people are in attendance if I enjoy the product. I would perfer the nice clean stadium while enjoying the game.

SoCon48
July 5th, 2006, 07:59 PM
Opinions of using Aluminum bleacher type seating instead of concrete for main grandstands???

blackfordpu
July 5th, 2006, 08:04 PM
I prefer staduim one. Unlike some people, I don't mind the track around the field. That is part of college football. Also, the better view from the stands and if the lockers are off site the team can run in from anywhere to get the fans pumped up.

WUTNDITWAA
July 5th, 2006, 08:25 PM
Kidd Brewer, aside from the track, turf and scoreboard, is basically Stadium II. I would keep Stadium II 100 times out of 100. In other words, I would want The Citadel's old Johnson Haygood over Elon's Rhoades.

gasoutherneagle
July 5th, 2006, 09:13 PM
Have to go with option 2: the shi-itehole.

We'd have no choice, unless you only want the "big-money" contributors getting to attend games.:bang:

Marcus Garvey
July 5th, 2006, 09:14 PM
This seems like apples and oranges. If a school has an exisiting 20,000 seat stadium that's dilapidated, it tells me that football is unlikely to be a priority. If said schools is seriously contemplating reducing the capacity by 88.5%, then that means the stadium is largely empty on Saturdays. Thus a no brainer: Build the new stadium, assuming money is available.

TheBisonator
July 5th, 2006, 09:17 PM
Have to go with option 2: the shi-itehole.

We'd have no choice, unless you only want the "big-money" contributors getting to attend games.:bang:

Stadium 1 would create a high demand, and a growth momentum for the fan base, regardless of on-the field performance.

Stadium 2 would do nothing more than erode the fan base (aside from on-the-field play - Everyone loves a winner)

TheBisonator
July 5th, 2006, 09:22 PM
I'm going to add something very important to the scenario:

Imagine now that the school you are a fan of is a regional (directional?) public university that has a hard-core fan base of 4,000 people. Meaning that the amount of local students, alumni and fans who live and die by the team number around 4,000. There are also a lot of casual fairweather fans of your team, numbering maybe 7,000-8,000 on top of that.

Stadium 1 would cordon off a percentage of that hardcore base and build momentum for increasing that even more. It would also build momentum for the casual base. The stadium is nice. People want to see it.

Stadium 2 would be more friendly for the casual fan, and walk-up ticket sales would rule (the casuals would mostly come to games), but it does nothing to increase hardcore demand. The stadium is a ****hole. This does not attract anyone new.

DFW HOYA
July 5th, 2006, 09:22 PM
Is this discussion an example with Richmond, e.g., building a small First Market Stadium versus fixing up larger UR Stadium?

TheBisonator
July 5th, 2006, 09:24 PM
Is this discussion an example with Richmond, e.g., building a small First Market Stadium versus fixing up larger UR Stadium?

Richmond could be a very good example of this. Except maybe the capacity numbers aren't as extreme as my scenario.

TheBisonator
July 5th, 2006, 09:25 PM
Also assume that there would be no plans to improve Stadium 2.

bostonspider
July 5th, 2006, 09:43 PM
Well I think location of the Stadium is a variable that has to be considered too. Thinking of UR's situation, they will be moving to a stadium similar to the option 1, though with four times the seating, and out of a Stadium very very similar to option 2. But, the big difference for them is that option 1 will be right in the heart of a spectacular campus, while option 2 is in a crappy neighborhood about 5 miles away from school. If UR Stadium were adjacent to campus, then I would be less willing to leave the large facility for the smaller one, but with the location factor put in, I am happy Richmond is making the move to First Market..

UR Stadium
http://www.impactsoccer.com/stades/richmond2.jpg

First Market Stadium
http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/rich/graphics/first-market-renderings.gif

MR. CHICKEN
July 5th, 2006, 09:56 PM
TRACKS INSIDE FOOTBALL STADIUMS....IS UN-ACCEPTABLE....NO WIGGLE ROOM ON DIS ONE...........: smh :.........BRAWK!


DELAWARE STADIUM & WASHINGTON-GRIZZWOLD = NO OVAL = TOUGHEST TICKET IN TOWN...:nod:...AWK!

YER RIGHT ON TOP UH DUH GAME.......NOT 35 YDS BACK (AN' DAT'S IFIN' YA GOT GOOD SEATS)..............:nonono2:......DOODLES!

Cocky
July 5th, 2006, 10:04 PM
Well I think location of the Stadium is a variable that has to be considered too. Thinking of UR's situation, they will be moving to a stadium similar to the option 1, though with four times the seating, and out of a Stadium very very similar to option 2. But, the big difference for them is that option 1 will be right in the heart of a spectacular campus, while option 2 is in a crappy neighborhood about 5 miles away from school. If UR Stadium were adjacent to campus, then I would be less willing to leave the large facility for the smaller one, but with the location factor put in, I am happy Richmond is making the move to First Market..

UR Stadium
http://www.impactsoccer.com/stades/richmond2.jpg

First Market Stadium
http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/rich/graphics/first-market-renderings.gif


What is First Market?, bank?, grocery store?, convenience store?

bostonspider
July 5th, 2006, 10:15 PM
First Market is a local Richmond bank, and the soccer stadium that is currently on the site of the new football stadium is already called First Market Stadium. There will be a new name for the field and just about everything else, but the stadium name is staying the same.

http://www.firstmarketbank.com/

Marcus Garvey
July 6th, 2006, 11:33 AM
TRACKS INSIDE FOOTBALL STADIUMS....IS UN-ACCEPTABLE....NO WIGGLE ROOM ON DIS ONE...........: smh :.........BRAWK!

One has to put his money where his mouth is with that statement. While not ideal, a track/football stadium makes economic sense. One's view of a football game is not devastated by the presence of a track.

colgate13
July 6th, 2006, 11:58 AM
Stadium 2.

GeauxColonels
July 6th, 2006, 12:48 PM
It's a tough call because I think both scenarios would fit specific situations differently. I like stadiums with all the "bells & whistles" but I also enjoy games at historic stadiums as well. I think the deterioration level of the stadium in scenario 2 would ultimately make my decision for me. And I have to agree, I HATE seeing tracks inside college stadiums. I do understand the economic reasons behind it (especially in high school and lower college divisions). But I feel that if you're program is at least I-A, the school has made a "statement / commitment" to the football program and should have separate track and football facilities.