Griz QB Charged With Rape

[KNUTS]

http://www.kpax.com/news/griz-qb-johnson-charged-with-rape/

Well I'll be the first to say that I was wrong. I hate to see this happen. But at least it will have it's day in court and all the speculation and rumors will be put to rest, justice will be served, and the University can move on.

[Squealofthepig]

A little bit more from the Missoulian: http://missoulian.com/news/local/grizzly-qb-jordan-johnson-charged-with-rape/article_a592856c-db62-11e1-96b4-0019bb2963f4.html

[344Johnson]

Bad news bears for the grizz. no pun intended.

[Grizo406]

Sad news!:(

If we're lucky, I'm thinkin' 7-4...

[slostang]

Sad story no matter how it ends.

[T-Dog]

WE'RE GONNA WIN. xbandwagonx

...er....I mean.....damn that sucks.

[whitey]

Yeah it sucks for the victim. That text message to her roommate immediately after the assault is pretty damning evidence.

[Sam_Kats]

Bad stuff. That's a tough situation for all parties.

[BisonBacker]

Not good times in Big Sky Country. When are these young guys gonna learn. Wow.

[MplsBison]

The woman told police Johnson turned "from playful to aggressive," and raped her, according to the charging documents. The affidavit also says the victim told Johnson "no" multiple times, and she said she was afraid he would hit her if she resisted.

Court papers further state that the victim said she changed clothes and drove Johnson home after the alleged assault and that the two didn't speak to each other afterward. Johnson told police that the encounter was consensual, and he didn't speak to the woman afterward because "he liked another girl."

So let me get it straight: girl claims she said "no" but then just decided to lay back and accept the rape. Then drove him back home afterward.

Well it's pretty clear: coaches are going to have to start telling players not to have sex anymore, unless they're married.


Girls can just say they were raped .. and that's it. Season's over. Doesn't matter if she's lying or not. Doesn't matter if was actually rape or not. Team's reputation will be ruined by the media, who only cares about ratings. Individual's reputation will be ruined by the media, who only cares about ratings. Team will be forced to kick the guy off the team, no matter what.

[Apphole]

So let me get it straight: girl claims she said "no" but then just decided to lay back and accept the rape. Then drove him back home afterward.

Well it's pretty clear: coaches are going to have to start telling players not to have sex anymore, unless they're married.


Girls can just say they were raped .. and that's it. Season's over.

I'd have to agree for the most part. Rape issues are so slanted in the favor of the female, it's ridiculous. At least he gets his day in a real court. Not the case for the ASU players accused. Their accusers strategically avoided the real avenues of justice in favor of slanderous social media campaigns and a student court witch hunt.

[THE HERD]

So Griz fans.......who is next up at the qb position?

[Grizalltheway]

So Griz fans.......who is next up at the qb position?

Shay Smithwick-Hann and Trent McKinney are next on the depth chart. Also talk of a drop-down transfer.

[asumike83]

So let me get it straight: girl claims she said "no" but then just decided to lay back and accept the rape. Then drove him back home afterward.

Well it's pretty clear: coaches are going to have to start telling players not to have sex anymore, unless they're married.


Girls can just say they were raped .. and that's it. Season's over. Doesn't matter if she's lying or not. Doesn't matter if was actually rape or not. Team's reputation will be ruined by the media, who only cares about ratings. Individual's reputation will be ruined by the media, who only cares about ratings. Team will be forced to kick the guy off the team, no matter what.

IF what she said is true and she told him 'no' multiple times and he continued to be aggressive and force himself on her, that is a rape. He can't get off the hook just because she was afraid to try and physically fight him off while he had his way.

At the very least, it was a creepy sexual encounter and at worst, a blatant rape. Hopefully, the courts will decide that correctly.

[Skjellyfetti]

IF what she said is true and she told him 'no' multiple times and he continued to be aggressive and force himself on her, that is a rape. He can't get off the hook just because she was afraid to try and physically fight him off while he had his way.

At the very least, it was a creepy sexual encounter and at worst, a blatant rape. Hopefully, the courts will decide that correctly.

But, that is a huge if. It all comes down to he said / she said in a lot of rape cases like this and the burden of proof is placed on the accused to prove there was no rape... which isn't how the justice system is supposed to work.

I'm not saying the UM QB is innocent or any of the accused App players were innocent... but, I just don't like the way courts favor women in cases like this and many others.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfnDfQsjbJQ

[JSUBison]

IF what she said is true and she told him 'no' multiple times and he continued to be aggressive and force himself on her, that is a rape. He can't get off the hook just because she was afraid to try and physically fight him off while he had his way.

At the very least, it was a creepy sexual encounter and at worst, a blatant rape. Hopefully, the courts will decide that correctly.

Don't forget about the completely bizarre text exchange with her Call of Duty playing roommate in the living room. Surprised that dork took the time to hit pause on his Xbox to reply to her, given his "meh" response to the whole thing. "Come out to the living room, I'm knee deep in dead Germans at the Battle of the Bulge". Not an exact quote, but that's the vibe I got. xsmhx

[asumike83]

But, that is a huge if. It all comes down to he said / she said in a lot of rape cases like this and the burden of proof is placed on the accused to prove there was no rape... which isn't how the justice system is supposed to work.

I'm not saying the UM QB is innocent or any of the accused App players were innocent... but, I just don't like the way courts favor women in cases like this and many others.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfnDfQsjbJQ

Completely agree. Rape is the most disgusting crime you can commit and for that reason, it is often 'guilty until proven innocent' when a man is accused. A fine line between protecting those who cannot protect themselves from sexual predators and locking a man up based solely on a verbal accusation. A sad situation all around.

[Apphole]

But, that is a huge if. It all comes down to he said / she said in a lot of rape cases like this and the burden of proof is placed on the accused to prove there was no rape... which isn't how the justice system is supposed to work.

I'm not saying the UM QB is innocent or any of the accused App players were innocent... but, I just don't like the way courts favor women in cases like this and many others.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfnDfQsjbJQ

The entire ASU alleged rape debacle dropped a steaming pile on due process. I've never professed to know what really happened in those situations either, but what I do know is that the accused men's rights were trampled and it was a direct result of tactics by a bunch of McCarthyist jackasses, high on their latest Facebook "cause."

Rape trials belong in a court of law, not in the court of public opinion or a student court devoid of any qualified individuals/evidence that would be admissible in a real court of law.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

The "victim" sent text messages to her friends BEFORE she went and picked up JJ and before the encounter allegedly happened. These texts are Paolis (Johnsons lawyer) trump card, and they are directly opposite of what she sent after the alleged incident.

[laxVik]

So let me get it straight: girl claims she said "no" but then just decided to lay back and accept the rape. Then drove him back home afterward.

Well it's pretty clear: coaches are going to have to start telling players not to have sex anymore, unless they're married.


Girls can just say they were raped .. and that's it. Season's over. Doesn't matter if she's lying or not. Doesn't matter if was actually rape or not. Team's reputation will be ruined by the media, who only cares about ratings. Individual's reputation will be ruined by the media, who only cares about ratings. Team will be forced to kick the guy off the team, no matter what. Careful. You're wallowing in Penn State fan delusion territory.

[KNUTS]

Completely agree. Rape is the most disgusting crime you can commit and for that reason, it is often 'guilty until proven innocent' when a man is accused. A fine line between protecting those who cannot protect themselves from sexual predators and locking a man up based solely on a verbal accusation. A sad situation all around.

I'd like to see a law that neither name can be released until charges have been brought against the accused by criminal court. I'd also like to see women fight back and defend themselves, to remove any doubt of what has occurred. I know that it sounds like I'm blaming the victim, IM NOT! I really do believe that a lot of these sexual assault that are of the "date rape" variety are so confusing to everyone involved, even the jury that convictions are very hard to come by. Honestly they both might be telling the truth in how the perceive what happened.

[BisonBacker]

I'm not going to take sides here either but it just seems to me that in some instances the females have a guilty conscience after the fact and is what drives them to make the claim. As has already been stated IF she did say no then he is guilty. But IF she was a willing participant and after the fact felt either "used" or whatever term you want o use then it's BS. The ground rules for this generation have been changed. This idea of no consequences for your actions is meeting up with reality. The parents of "my little angel can do no wrong" have seen to that and it's coming back to bite them in the Azz. This goes for both sides in these kinds of cases.

[Squealofthepig]

So Griz fans.......who is next up at the qb position?

Ummm... that's basically a null set.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/rape-charge-leaves-griz-without-a-starting-quarterback/article_0b48eeb8-db87-11e1-a774-0019bb2963f4.html

[pajo]

Wow, it's almost like i get the impression this board is comprised of 100% males. You people seem very quick to the defense of someone who was charged in a criminal court by way of a very serious allegation. No, not everyone accused of this crime is guilty. The fact that a lot of you are willing to defend this person without ANY knowledge about the proceedings is borderline rape apologia, and it's disgusting.

[BisonBacker]

Wow, it's almost like i get the impression this board is comprised of 100% males. You people seem very quick to the defense of someone who was charged in a criminal court by way of a very serious allegation. No, not everyone accused of this crime is guilty. The fact that a lot of you are willing to defend this person without ANY knowledge about the proceedings is borderline rape apologia, and it's disgusting.

I'm not picking sides here. If he's guilty of the crime THAT is disgusting. If she agreed to consensual sex and claimed rape afterwards THAT is disgusting. To boldy paint anyone who asks a question only wanting for justice to be served is also disgusting. xnonox

[Apphole]

I'm not picking sides here. If he's guilty of the crime THAT is disgusting. If she agreed to consensual sex and claimed rape afterwards THAT is disgusting. To boldy paint anyone who asks a question only wanting for justice to be served is also disgusting. xnonox

+1

Objective people are a minority with these issues

[Grizcountry420]

What i dont understand is that she went to the doctor the next day for a medical examination but didnt report it to the police until 6 weeks later? Why didnt she just report it that day after her medical exam? There are soo many gray areas involved in this case..

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Wow, it's almost like i get the impression this board is comprised of 100% males. You people seem very quick to the defense of someone who was charged in a criminal court by way of a very serious allegation. No, not everyone accused of this crime is guilty. The fact that a lot of you are willing to defend this person without ANY knowledge about the proceedings is borderline rape apologia, and it's disgusting.

Speaking only for me.....the reason I support JJ is I know how delusional, narcissistic and vindictive American women are.

I am not trivializing rape by any means but rape today isnt what it has been in the past. If he did it throw the book at him but IMO this was a chick that whored around got dumped and wanted to "show him".

If you dont want this to happen minimize the situations you put yourself in.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[MplsBison]

IF what she said is true and she told him 'no' multiple times and he continued to be aggressive and force himself on her, that is a rape. He can't get off the hook just because she was afraid to try and physically fight him off while he had his way.

At the very least, it was a creepy sexual encounter and at worst, a blatant rape. Hopefully, the courts will decide that correctly.

Of course.

But last time I checked, most college football players are raging with testosterone and want sex. Creepy sexual encounters are probably not uncommon.

And creepy doesn't make news, doesn't ruin seasons, doesn't get guys kicked off teams.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Wow, it's almost like i get the impression this board is comprised of 100% males. You people seem very quick to the defense of someone who was charged in a criminal court by way of a very serious allegation. No, not everyone accused of this crime is guilty. The fact that a lot of you are willing to defend this person without ANY knowledge about the proceedings is borderline rape apologia, and it's disgusting.

That's your impression? It's not what I've seen here so far. I've seen people asking questions about the facts that are known so far. I see people not just automatically assuming guilt like a lot in society would like to us to do because they are emotionally attached to it in some way.

For instance I think that the it could be possible that she did not clearly say no or had regret after the fact. I also thinks it's very possible that the text immediately after is goona be very hard to defend against because it shows an immediate reaction that is very likely to be true and the fact that JJ got picked up because he was too impaired to drive also does not work in his favor because inebriation does not make for clear understanding of a situation or the ability to make correct decisions.

Lighten the **** up. Everybody isn't disgusting just because they want to follow the rules of law and assume innocence until proven guilty. It allows you to keep an open mind and ask questions without alrready knowing the answer.

[MplsBison]

I'd like to see a law that neither name can be released until charges have been brought against the accused by criminal court. I'd also like to see women fight back and defend themselves, to remove any doubt of what has occurred. I know that it sounds like I'm blaming the victim, IM NOT! I really do believe that a lot of these sexual assault that are of the "date rape" variety are so confusing to everyone involved, even the jury that convictions are very hard to come by. Honestly they both might be telling the truth in how the perceive what happened.

With you 100%.

I'd stop just short of saying "if you don't fight back, then we shouldn't be calling it rape - it should be called something else".

[MplsBison]

Wow, it's almost like i get the impression this board is comprised of 100% males. You people seem very quick to the defense of someone who was charged in a criminal court by way of a very serious allegation. No, not everyone accused of this crime is guilty. The fact that a lot of you are willing to defend this person without ANY knowledge about the proceedings is borderline rape apologia, and it's disgusting.

Honest question here because I don't know: how often does the average DA office decide *not* to press charges against someone when a claim of rape is made?

Girl says she said "no", guy kept going and she was too scared to fight back. "Well....sorry ma'am....I can't press charges unless I see some bruises..."

[ursus arctos horribilis]

What i dont understand is that she went to the doctor the next day for a medical examination but didnt report it to the police until 6 weeks later? Why didnt she just report it that day after her medical exam? There are soo many gray areas involved in this case..

To be honest it could be that this is something she had to come to terms with and it's a pretty major step to get involved in this sort of thing. It's also possible that she didn't really think it was at the level of rape and she wanted to be involved with JJ and once it was clear that JJ wasn't looking for anything more than a booty call she began leaning further to the side that she did not consent and played it back in her mind to see how she felt.

[MplsBison]

Speaking only for me.....the reason I support JJ is I know how delusional, narcissistic and vindictive American women are.

I am not trivializing rape by any means but rape today isnt what it has been in the past. If he did it throw the book at him but IMO this was a chick that whored around got dumped and wanted to "show him".

If you dont want this to happen minimize the situations you put yourself in.

"If he did it" ... there isn't any question if he did it.

He did have sex with her. Perhaps rough sex, because maybe she likes that?


How can any examination, test or anything else prove if she said "no" during the act or if she decided after the fact that she said "no"?

[pajo]

I'm not picking sides here. If he's guilty of the crime THAT is disgusting. If she agreed to consensual sex and claimed rape afterwards THAT is disgusting. To boldy paint anyone who asks a question only wanting for justice to be served is also disgusting. xnonox

Touche. Rape is a sensitive issue and i hear your point. I am not trying to cast judgement on this mans guilt, but it seems irresponsible to me for this conversation to take a turn where we start talking about whatever ASU's rape problem is, or however these proceedings will affect the prestige of their universities. Which did happen in this thread. As men we cannot possibly understand what it is like to be afraid to walk out of your house at a certain hour of the night, because we fear for our safety implicitly. I do not think allegations like this should be taken lightly. I do think that these quasi rebuttals are disrespectful, but i certainly do not argue with your right to say it and respect your opinions.

[KNUTS]

With you 100%.

I'd stop just short of saying "if you don't fight back, then we shouldn't be calling it rape - it should be called something else".

To be clear I by no means think that if they dont fight back it shouldnt be called rape. I was speaking of the times where the accuser knows her assailant and things began to happen and she is now in a situation she doesnt want to follow through with it, just make a clear attempt to stop it. If her life is in danger, then I cant speak as to how they should react because they should do exactly what their mind and instincts tell them to do either way. But in those cases there is no doubt as to what occurred and convictions are much easier.

[MplsBison]

To be clear I by no means think that if they dont fight back it shouldnt be called rape. I was speaking of the times where the accuser knows her assailant and things began to happen and she is now in a situation she doesnt want to follow through with it, just make a clear attempt to stop it. If her life is in danger, then I cant speak as to how they should react because they should do exactly what their mind and instincts tell them to do either way. But in those cases there is no doubt as to what occurred and convictions are much easier.

It's just hard for me to understand a woman not physically fighting back against a man who's forcibly trying to have sex with her against her will. I've even read stories of dudes who've had their junk bitten off! If that's not enough to deter you, then I guess nothing is.

I suppose you can claim that the fear is paralyzing... but to me that's just a very convenient and enabling argument for a woman who wants to decide that after the fact she said no.


So to be crystal clear:

- not fighting back but saying "no", then the guy still has his way - that is rape.
- not fighting back and not saying anything - that's something else and should be treated as something else.


And it doesn't need to be said, but some jerk here will go there anyway - so I better CMA: obviously this only applies if the victim was capable of giving consent (for example, not passed out drunk).

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

I'd like to see a law that neither name can be released until charges have been brought against the accused by criminal court. I'd also like to see women fight back and defend themselves, to remove any doubt of what has occurred. I know that it sounds like I'm blaming the victim, IM NOT! I really do believe that a lot of these sexual assault that are of the "date rape" variety are so confusing to everyone involved, even the jury that convictions are very hard to come by. Honestly they both might be telling the truth in how the perceive what happened.

I think it should be taken a step further and no names can be released unless there is a conviction. In the court of public opinion it seems like as soon as the accused name is released they are guilty. No matter the outcome of the trial, a lot of people will view JJ, or anyone accused of rape, as being guilty. Even if someone is able to successfully defend themselves this will hang over them for a long time. It is so easy to Google someone, and have information about a court case pop up, regardless of the outcome.

[fc97]

the justice system shouldnt be geared around lets get them all by punishing some innocent people. it should be that it never punishes anyone innocent even if some guilty get away.

when it comes to sex law, family law, etc; the burden of guilt is put on the charged until proven innocent. makes you wonder just how many innocent people are screwed.

and yes, it comes down to its better not to have sex. because all it takes it an accusation and you day is done. look at duke lacrosse. i have often told people that an easy, disgusting prank to play on a rival would be to have a girl scream rape on the star players the week before.

[MplsBison]

I think it should be taken a step further and no names can be released unless there is a conviction. In the court of public opinion it seems like as soon as the accused name is released they are guilty. No matter the outcome of the trial, a lot of people will view JJ, or anyone accused of rape, as being guilty. Even if someone is able to successfully defend themselves this will hang over them for a long time. It is so easy to Google someone, and have information about a court case pop up, regardless of the outcome.

100% agree.

[Houndawg]

Poon should be for sale legally, like in Nevada.

Want some poon? Take your money over to the cat house.

[T-Dog]

I'd have to agree for the most part. Rape issues are so slanted in the favor of the female, it's ridiculous. At least he gets his day in a real court. Not the case for the ASU players accused. Their accusers strategically avoided the real avenues of justice in favor of slanderous social media campaigns and a student court witch hunt.

You should really shut the **** up about that whole situation.

[Apphole]

You should really shut the **** up about that whole situation.

Hope you never have a son.

[T-Dog]

Hope you never have a son.

And you should never have a daughter.

Remember, the admitted defense for the players was "she didn't say no".

[Apphole]

And you should never have a daughter.

Remember, the admitted defense for the players was "she didn't say no".

Remember, I've never claimed the innocence or guilt of the guys. I've only been referring to the due process (or lack thereof) they received during that whole ordeal. Very sad and sticky situation for all parties, including the ASU fan base.

[gotts]

I feel this is relevant to the discussion at hand: http://www.wday.com/event/article/id/10978/publisher_ID/30/

[WataugaDave]

I was just really surprised that one of those players as App was a guy I went to high school with.

Ed Gainey. Or as he called himself at the time "ED MOTHER****IN' GAINEY!"

Okay, maybe not all that surprised.

[fc97]

i have a daughter and i can say i dont like the law

she didnt say no, is as easy a defense as an accusation of i said no. period. the problem is due process is not attributed evenly in cases like these where men are painted guilty until proven innocent with little more than a yes it did happen and yes I said no.

the problem with it all is, regret doesn't mean rape, and there are far too many women that do make regret = rape and too many feminists that say it is too that are changing the way the legal system works. until formal charges have been applied, students and men should not have names released or risk getting kicked out of school. and for rape accusations that find men innocent, there should be punishment for the women (duke lacrosse, utc girl and so on)

right now, as far as sexual law and family law goes, women have their cake and eat it too.

[fc97]

men should be taught to never trust women in the present day

and women should be taught that they are gatekeepers, if you dont want things to happen that you might regret, then best not to do it until you are sure you wont regret it

[MplsBison]

i have a daughter and i can say i dont like the law

she didnt say no, is as easy a defense as an accusation of i said no. period. the problem is due process is not attributed evenly in cases like these where men are painted guilty until proven innocent with little more than a yes it did happen and yes I said no.

the problem with it all is, regret doesn't mean rape, and there are far too many women that do make regret = rape and too many feminists that say it is too that are changing the way the legal system works. until formal charges have been applied, students and men should not have names released or risk getting kicked out of school. and for rape accusations that find men innocent, there should be punishment for the women (duke lacrosse, utc girl and so on)

right now, as far as sexual law and family law goes, women have their cake and eat it too.

He said she didn't say no and she didn't try to stop him. She says she said no and was too scared to physically fight back.

There are no signs of physical struggle or rape.


Do you send him to prison or let him off with no penalty?

[lucchesicourt]

It's funny. Seems many of you are taking sides without facts. Sure, you can argue about who said what etc. But these are not facts. In court, the case is presented to the jury with the facts the prosecution and defence presents in court (some of these so called facts are supported by physical evidence and eyewitnesses, while some are circumstantial). I believe circumstantial evidence is open to interpretation and manipulation by both sides and therefore should not be allowed in evidence. I see most think the girl is at an advantage in situations like this. However, I do not believe that is the case. The prosecution seldom if ever, brings a case to court on a she said he said basis. In cases like the she said he said, the guy usually gets off whether he is guilty or not. The girl needs more evidence than just saying I was raped to get a case to court. The police do not arrest and charge indiviuals with rape without an investigation. If they did charge men on the word of the victim alone they would not need to investigate any rape cases.
There really has to be more in this case. Unless, the police are submitting evidence that is false (this has been done on many occasions to get a conviction). The real problem with the justice system is the rich and popular are treated much differently than the average person by the law. That is where the real problem in our justice system lies.
Innocent people are convicted in our courts of law, based on the police MAKING and USING evidence suggesting guilt, and ignoring evidence that proposes innocense. Why? Police and the prosecution are REWARDED for winning. There should be no rewards in a court of law for police and prosecutors who get convictions. There should be rewards for finding the truth.
So, hopefully, both f these individuals are given their day in court, and both sides are able to present their cases to a group of unbiased jurors. And, the evidence presented in court is truthful on the parts of all parties. Now, it is obvious that the two involved will have a difference of opinion, but the evidence collected should be presented as honestly as possible by both sides.
Courts people seem to think are there to find the truth as to what happened. However, that is NOT the case. The courts are used to see who can present the best arguments as to innocense or guilt. That is why there are innocent people in jail. My argument is, the ONLY way innocent people can be convicted based on physical evidence is if the police and forensics team manipulate the facts. Things like using their so called expert witnesses to present opinions that could interpretted by the jurors in an incorrect way. For instance, using words that the lay person would interpret incorrectly, but professionals would not. Like the expert witness saying, "The injury was superficial to the carotid artery." Now, this would NOT mean the injury was superficial as most jurors may interpret it. So, the prosecution can use words to mislead the jurors as to the extent of the injuries as in this case I presented. These are the types of games used by both sides in a court of law.

[crossfire07]

Seems liked that in the past when a woman got raped, she was all beat to hell,clothes all torn and in a state of shock and understandably so.These days,no marks, no bruises and hell, they are even driving their attacker home.Somebody was in the other room and this girl does not even hollar or scream? I dunno

[Houndawg]

Worst job I ever had was supervising 18 females.

[lucchesicourt]

Unfortunately, the days of beatings and torn clothes and screaming for help can be avoided these days with drugs. So, my question is does the prosecution have lab results as to what type and whether or not drugs were present in her blood. Or did someone else know that he used drugs to induce her to be more passive? There are lots of questions that need to be asked before innocense or guilt can be determined. However, my fear is that many times the truthful person is the one who gets screwed by the courts. It is a game of debating, amd neither side really cares about the truth. The defence tries to get his/her client off whether he/she is guilty or not, and the prosecution tries to convict the defendant whether he/she is guilty or not
Whereas, I think the courts should be interested in finding the TRUTH.

[MplsBison]

Unfortunately, the days of beatings and torn clothes and screaming for help can be avoided these days with drugs. So, my question is does the prosecution have lab results as to what type and whether or not drugs were present in her blood. Or did someone else know that he used drugs to induce her to be more passive? There are lots of questions that need to be asked before innocense or guilt can be determined. However, my fear is that many times the truthful person is the one who gets screwed by the courts. It is a game of debating, amd neither side really cares about the truth. The defence tries to get his/her client off whether he/she is guilty or not, and the prosecution tries to convict the defendant whether he/she is guilty or not
Whereas, I think the courts should be interested in finding the TRUTH.

No..that's not it either.

The court's job is the determine if the case against the defendant has reasonable doubt or not.

[Vitojr130]

Wow, it's almost like i get the impression this board is comprised of 100% males. You people seem very quick to the defense of someone who was charged in a criminal court by way of a very serious allegation. No, not everyone accused of this crime is guilty. The fact that a lot of you are willing to defend this person without ANY knowledge about the proceedings is borderline rape apologia, and it's disgusting.

Meh, I disagree. It sounds a lot like a case that happened a few years ago just outside the FM area to one of my friends. He was a star player on one of the D3 colleges in the area and decided to get completely lambasted at a party. He ended up having sex with an acquaintance. The next day, a warrant was put out for his arrest on allegations of rape. He turned himself in because that was the type of guy he was and he firmly believed he was not guilty. Many people testified from the party that the two seemed very sensual with each other. However, because there was no proof that she said "no" or that it was indeed consensual, it turned into a match of who has the better hearsay. In the end, he was accused of rape and is in jail for 6 years and has to register as a sex offender for something like 25 years. Personally, I don't believe he was guilty and I feel like the girl just felt guilty the next day and tried to save face in the worst way possible. Ruined his life. Eh, but the court is always correct, right?

[Grizalltheway]

Meh, I disagree. It sounds a lot like a case that happened a few years ago just outside the FM area to one of my friends. He was a star player on one of the D3 colleges in the area and decided to get completely lambasted at a party. He ended up having sex with an acquaintance. The next day, a warrant was put out for his arrest on allegations of rape. He turned himself in because that was the type of guy he was and he firmly believed he was not guilty. Many people testified from the party that the two seemed very sensual with each other. However, because there was no proof that she said "no" or that it was indeed consensual, it turned into a match of who has the better hearsay. In the end, he was accused of rape and is in jail for 6 years and has to register as a sex offender for something like 25 years. Personally, I don't believe he was guilty and I feel like the girl just felt guilty the next day and tried to save face in the worst way possible. Ruined his life. Eh, but the court is always correct, right?

Wow, sounds exactly like what happened to a guy from my high school, only he ended up eating a shotgun shortly after the accusation happened. xnonono2xxnonono2x

[MplsBison]

Sounds like a story that happens all the time.

So what is a reasonable way to protect these young men from these women without making it more difficult for actual rape victims to accuse their rapists?

[Vitojr130]

Sounds like a story that happens all the time.

So what is a reasonable way to protect these young men from these women without making it more difficult for actual rape victims to accuse their rapists?

Well and that's just it. There really isn't a way to get about this except for players and other people to just not party and/or have sex. No sex and no party = no convictions.

I just couldn't believe that my friend got charged with rape when many people testified that the two were getting VERY friendly with each other in front of everyone. Turns out the girl wasn't even 21 yet. All she got was a slap on the wrist and a "Don't do it again" and he gets a jail sentence with his life ruined. Very sketchy considering the fact that there was absolutely no solid evidence in the case.

[pajo]

Meh, I disagree. It sounds a lot like a case that happened a few years ago just outside the FM area to one of my friends. He was a star player on one of the D3 colleges in the area and decided to get completely lambasted at a party. He ended up having sex with an acquaintance. The next day, a warrant was put out for his arrest on allegations of rape. He turned himself in because that was the type of guy he was and he firmly believed he was not guilty. Many people testified from the party that the two seemed very sensual with each other. However, because there was no proof that she said "no" or that it was indeed consensual, it turned into a match of who has the better hearsay. In the end, he was accused of rape and is in jail for 6 years and has to register as a sex offender for something like 25 years. Personally, I don't believe he was guilty and I feel like the girl just felt guilty the next day and tried to save face in the worst way possible. Ruined his life. Eh, but the court is always correct, right?

There are plenty of these "Willie Horton" examples. Fact of the matter is they are the exception to the rule. Keep in mind that you are still blindly disagreeing with a courts ruling, while admitting that you don't actually know if he did it or not, when a court apparently found the evidence to convict.

It is terrible when an innocent man is convicted of a crime. But where is the appropriate place to draw the line, what should be the precedent? I had a friend who died in a car crash because he swerved to miss a pot hole in the road. Should we tare up all the roads to prevent such things from happening? Sometimes my taxes are abused by our government and they go towards purchasing 3000 dollar toilet seats. Should we abolish the IRS to prevent this waste? The quick answer is no. We do not live in a world of black and white. The fact of the matter is the world is very grey, and it is naive to think everything is always going to go off without a hitch.

When someone is charged with rape, murder, violent assault, etc. we need to be very diligent about protecting the victims rights. Our society does have precedents for these violent crimes, and although i agree our system is not perfect, right now it's the best we got. And in general, it works.

[Grizalltheway]

There are plenty of these "Willie Horton" examples. Fact of the matter is they are the exception to the rule. Keep in mind that you are still blindly disagreeing with a courts ruling, while admitting that you don't actually know if he did it or not, when a court apparently found the evidence to convict.

It is terrible when an innocent man is convicted of a crime. But where is the appropriate place to draw the line, what should be the precedent? I had a friend who died in a car crash because he swerved to miss a pot hole in the road. Should we tare up all the roads to prevent such things from happening? Sometimes my taxes are abused by our government and they go towards purchasing 3000 dollar toilet seats. Should we abolish the IRS to prevent this waste? The quick answer is no. We do not live in a world of black and white. The fact of the matter is the world is very grey, and it is naive to think everything is always going to go off without a hitch.

When someone is charged with rape, murder, violent assault, etc. we need to be very diligent about protecting the victims rights. Our society does have precedents for these violent crimes, and although i agree our system is not perfect, right now it's the best we got. And in general, it works.

You also have to be careful not to tip the scales of justice too far in favor of alleged victims. Rape is a crime where a woman can fairly easily take advantage of victims' rights if she has a vendetta against the defendant. The former USC recruit who is now (I believe) playing for the Seahawks is a perfect example.

[lucchesicourt]

Many times there is evidence uncovered by the police that is NEVER turned over to the defence. This evidence is not presenterd in court and is witheld. I know it's not legal or right, but it does happen. There are cases where the evidence is uncovered after the conviction that would exonerate the defendant. But, is never used to do so. Texas, according to the lead detective in one case. executed a man she KNEW was INNOCENT. She called the parents of this man and told them she knew he was innocent, but Texas was going to execute him anyway. And, they did.
See this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Todd_Willingham

If you want yo can do more investigations on him and others to find where evidence is withheld is is knowingly misinterpretted by the prosecutions expert witnesses.
It is NOT unusual.

The fact is the prosecution has control of the evidence and uses what they have to get a conviction. There is no intent to find the truth unless the lead investigator has the will and desire to seek truth over finding someone guilty to put the case to rest.

If this were not true, then the physical evidence that exists would NOT point to a guilty verdict if the person was really innocent of the crime. The only way an innocent person CAN be guilty of a crime with physical evidence is if they were really present at the time of the crime. Circumstantial evidence, used by the prosecution only, is NOT tangible evidence.

[crossfire07]

Until the punishment for women that cry wolf gets stiffer, it will only get worse.I am all for a man that truly rapes getting the needle.I am also for someone who lies about such a horrific event getting a life changing sentence.They give out such harsh sentences to deter such crimes so let's start deterring.

[Grizalltheway]

Until the punishment for women that cry wolf gets stiffer, it will only get worse.I am all for a man that truly rapes getting the needle.I am also for someone who lies about such a horrific event getting a life changing sentence.They give out such harsh sentences to deter such crimes so let's start deterring.

xnodxxnodx

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Until the punishment for women that cry wolf gets stiffer, it will only get worse.I am all for a man that truly rapes getting the needle.I am also for someone who lies about such a horrific event getting a life changing sentence.They give out such harsh sentences to deter such crimes so let's start deterring.

I agree, that women who purposefully claim rape for whatever vindictive or greedy reason should get the book thrown at them too. However, I think that a lot of times that's not the case; that the line between rape and sex can be very blurry, especially when the two people know each other and have or have had a prior sexual relationship.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I agree, that women who purposefully claim rape for whatever vindictive or greedy reason should get the book thrown at them too. However, I think that a lot of times that's not the case; that the line between rape and sex can be very blurry, especially when the two people know each other and have or have had a prior sexual relationship.

Dead on. We just don't know anything about this case yet so we don't have any valid opinions on it but there's gonna be some interesting things come out in this and I'll bet we'll all still be scratching our heads and wondering what really happened when it's all said and done because of the very reasons Lucchie laid out already.

Either an innocent man will be convicted, or a guilty man will go free. Some peops are too set in their way to see it any differently.

I'm fairly surprised that this particular discussion in this thread had stayed pretty civil and repectful (for the most part) and it has not turned into the monkey show I expected. It's fairly refreshing to see an open, honest conversation. Nice work all around people.

[MplsBison]

I agree, that women who purposefully claim rape for whatever vindictive or greedy reason should get the book thrown at them too. However, I think that a lot of times that's not the case; that the line between rape and sex can be very blurry, especially when the two people know each other and have or have had a prior sexual relationship.

Then what's rape?

On one end of the spectrum is a women jogging, a man jumps out of the bushes, grabs her and physically, forcibly rapes here. On the other end of the spectrum is consensual sex.

Where is the line for prison time?

[WataugaDave]

Then what's rape?

On one end of the spectrum is a women jogging, a man jumps out of the bushes, grabs her and physically, forcibly rapes here. On the other end of the spectrum is consensual sex.

Where is the line for prison time?
In my opinion, the line is if there is refusal or resistance, or if someone who is passed out/drunk/otherwise incapacitated is taken advantage of.

That simplifies things a little too much, because every case is different. But things like this do sort of cross the line into being ridiculous.

There was a teacher at a local high school who killed himself after a girl said that he raped her. People then automatically assumed that it was because he was guilty, but the girl admitted later she made it up. So why did he do it? Because his life was RUINED. He got fired before charges were even filed, and probably would have been found guilty even with little to no evidence. And even if he was left off the hook, could an "accused" rapist find a teaching job anywhere else? Probably not.

When "Ed Mother****in' Gainey" and the other athletes at App were going through the school's disciplinary process, people on campus were UP IN ARMS because their names weren't being made public. But of course, if they had been made public before the results of the hearing came out, they would have been targeted. For some reason, there is absolutely no presumption of innocent until proven guilty when it comes to this particular crime.

[Houndawg]

In my opinion,the line is if there is refusal or resistance, or if someone who is passed out/drunk/otherwise incapacitated is taken advantage of.

That simplifies things a little too much, because every case is different. But things like this do sort of cross the line into being ridiculous.

There was a teacher at a local high school who killed himself after a girl said that he raped her. People then automatically assumed that it was because he was guilty, but the girl admitted later she made it up. So why did he do it? Because his life was RUINED. He got fired before charges were even filed, and probably would have been found guilty even with little to no evidence. And even if he was left off the hook, could an "accused" rapist find a teaching job anywhere else? Probably not.

When "Ed Mother****in' Gainey" and the other athletes at App were going through the school's disciplinary process, people on campus were UP IN ARMS because their names weren't being made public. But of course, if they had been made public before the results of the hearing came out, they would have been targeted. For some reason, there is absolutely no presumption of innocent until proven guilty when it comes to this particular crime.


No means no; back in the day this was just part of being a man.

I had it drilled into me, by parents, teachers, coaches, that you never hit a woman,even if she deserves it.

[MplsBison]

In my opinion, the line is if there is refusal or resistance, or if someone who is passed out/drunk/otherwise incapacitated is taken advantage of.

That simplifies things a little too much, because every case is different. But things like this do sort of cross the line into being ridiculous.

There was a teacher at a local high school who killed himself after a girl said that he raped her. People then automatically assumed that it was because he was guilty, but the girl admitted later she made it up. So why did he do it? Because his life was RUINED. He got fired before charges were even filed, and probably would have been found guilty even with little to no evidence. And even if he was left off the hook, could an "accused" rapist find a teaching job anywhere else? Probably not.

When "Ed Mother****in' Gainey" and the other athletes at App were going through the school's disciplinary process, people on campus were UP IN ARMS because their names weren't being made public. But of course, if they had been made public before the results of the hearing came out, they would have been targeted. For some reason, there is absolutely no presumption of innocent until proven guilty when it comes to this particular crime.

It goes without saying that taking advantage of a passed out person is rape. Leave that for another discussion.

This discussion is two, sober (or otherwise un-drugged) adults who are perfectly capable of having consensual sex.

[MplsBison]

No means no; back in the day this was just part of being a man.

I had it drilled into me, by parents, teachers, coaches, that you never hit a woman,even if she deserves it.

So then, would you tell your daughter: "make sure you tell him 'no!' if you don't want to have sex...but if he doesn't hear you or ignores it...then just lay there and think happy thoughts until it's over" ???

[slycat]

It goes without saying that taking advantage of a passed out person is rape. Leave that for another discussion.

This discussion is two, sober (or otherwise un-drugged) adults who are perfectly capable of having consensual sex.

The article says he was drunk so I'm sure he wasn't as willing to listen to a no. Maybe she had never had a one night stand before or casual sex with a friend. Maybe she didn't know how to deal with those feelings and thought rape. Maybe she said no over and over but he didn't care because he didn't take it seriously.

No one knows all the facts or how it went down. But in my experience you can tell when a girl really means no. It can start with a a playful "stop it" but can go one of two ways, her playing hard to get or her saying "no I'm serious". When its the second you stop.

[Houndawg]

So then, would you tell your daughter: "make sure you tell him 'no!' if you don't want to have sex...but if he doesn't hear you or ignores it...then just lay there and think happy thoughts until it's over" ???


Jump to conclusions much? How in the world do you reach that conclusion from what I said? Good grief.

[slycat]

So then, would you tell your daughter: "make sure you tell him 'no!' if you don't want to have sex...but if he doesn't hear you or ignores it...then just lay there and think happy thoughts until it's over" ???

Hes commenting that a guy should know to stop when they hear no. The daughter should yell no if he keeps going, push him away, or hit if needed. A man should stop and not hit back. Makes much more for a case of rape if he does.

[MplsBison]

The article says he was drunk so I'm sure he wasn't as willing to listen to a no. Maybe she had never had a one night stand before or casual sex with a friend. Maybe she didn't know how to deal with those feelings and thought rape. Maybe she said no over and over but he didn't care because he didn't take it seriously.

No one knows all the facts or how it went down. But in my experience you can tell when a girl really means no. It can start with a a playful "stop it" but can go one of two ways, her playing hard to get or her saying "no I'm serious". When its the second you stop.

Without question, you're correct.

And then...like I was asking Houndawg...what does the girl do when he doesn't stop after "Stop it! I'm serious!"?

Does she scratch, bite, punch...even scream? Recall there was supposedly roommate home.

[MplsBison]

Hes commenting that a guy should know to stop when they hear no. The daughter should yell no if he keeps going, push him away, or hit if needed. A man should stop and not hit back. Makes much more for a case of rape if he does.

I wasn't questioning that.

[MplsBison]

Jump to conclusions much? How in the world do you reach that conclusion from what I said? Good grief.

Ugh.

It wasn't a personal remark in any way, shape or form. Stick to the context of the thread.

[Grizalltheway]

Without question, you're correct.

And then...like I was asking Houndawg...what does the girl do when he doesn't stop after "Stop it! I'm serious!"?

Does she scratch, bite, punch...even scream? Recall there was supposedly roommate home.

I think that's what most girls would do in that situation. I mean yeah, Johnson was a football player, but it's not like he was a 6'5" 300lb lineman. I just don't understand why she wouldn't put up any kind of resistance in that situation if she was serious about not wanting to have sex with him. I mean what's worse, getting socked by a guy or getting raped by him? And if you start screaming bloody murder I don't think any roommate would just sit there and keep playing video games. xtwocentsx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I think that's what most girls would do in that situation. I mean yeah, Johnson was a football player, but it's not like he was a 6'5" 300lb lineman. I just don't understand why she wouldn't put up any kind of resistance in that situation if she was serious about not wanting to have sex with him. I mean what's worse, getting socked by a guy or getting raped by him? And if you start screaming bloody murder I don't think any roommate would just sit there and keep playing video games. xtwocentsx

I'm not positive but I think she had two roommates, both male, both home at the time.

[Houndawg]

Without question, you're correct.

And then...like I was asking Houndawg...what does the girl do when he doesn't stop after "Stop it! I'm serious!"?

Does she scratch, bite, punch...even scream? Recall there was supposedly roommate home.

She starts screaming bloody murder. You ever heard a woman do that?

[MplsBison]

I think that's what most girls would do in that situation. I mean yeah, Johnson was a football player, but it's not like he was a 6'5" 300lb lineman. I just don't understand why she wouldn't put up any kind of resistance in that situation if she was serious about not wanting to have sex with him. I mean what's worse, getting socked by a guy or getting raped by him? And if you start screaming bloody murder I don't think any roommate would just sit there and keep playing video games. xtwocentsx

Yep, we're on the same page.

[MplsBison]

She starts screaming bloody murder. You ever heard a woman do that?

Right, I agree. Scream...do something!

[FurmanWins!!]

UM has become a bunch of wussies, hardly ever play a good FBS team and when they do it is usually Idaho lol ;)

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

UM has become a bunch of wussies, hardly ever play a good FBS team and when they do it is usually Idaho lol ;)

True we played Tennessee last year so this guy really knows what hes talking about...............

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[ursus arctos horribilis]

UM has become a bunch of wussies, hardly ever play a good FBS team and when they do it is usually Idaho lol ;)

It's worse than that. You should have seen the bunch they tried to line up against us in the 2001 NC. Pathetic.

At least GSU, Wofford, & ASU can play the game and make for an interesting match up.

[fc97]

He said she didn't say no and she didn't try to stop him. She says she said no and was too scared to physically fight back.

There are no signs of physical struggle or rape.


Do you send him to prison or let him off with no penalty?

i dont know, that is for a jury to decide. but, there is a lack of evidence that it seems and the laws need to be changed for sure. there are too many politicians that look at all women as their daughters that need to be take care of. and as long as regret = rape, this kind of @#$% will continue to happen.

and ill say it again, regret is NOT rape, no matter how much you want to change it.

sad thing is, in today's sexist world, her word means more than his. so her no means more than him saying she didnt say it.

[fc97]

and i know police detective, in most situations, if an alleged victim claims something, that is typically enough to charge in domestic cases. this goes for child law,family law, domestic abuse and rape. circumstantial evidence goes to trial all the time, in fact, i just sat on a jury locally where the entire prosecutions case was based on circumstantial evidence. at the end, most of the jurors were making opinions on the defendants appearance and the way they though they law should be, and not by facts alone.

in other words, in cases like this, you need very little to take the case to trial. based on the amount of circumstantial evidence, the prosecution can take it to trial. and because womens cases are such a witch hunt now, they are easy convictions in most cases.

questions by the lawyer:
were you there? yes
did you have sex? yes
did she you say no? yes

defendant, prove otherwise.... well, you cannot. and saying i think i was raped sounds more like regret than rape. a person darn well knows when they are raped.

[lucchesicourt]

That's why I think circumstantial evidence should not be allowed in court, especially without actual physical evidence to support it.

[fc97]

and to do that means laws would change, and to change laws of this nature would be very unpopular with the victim lobbying groups and would sincerely hurt the pr of politicians who work to change it.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Sounds like a story that happens all the time.

So what is a reasonable way to protect these young men from these women without making it more difficult for actual rape victims to accuse their rapists?

Obviously, we need to make pussy unattainable its just to easy to get now days..............................xcoffeex

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

The article says he was drunk so I'm sure he wasn't as willing to listen to a no. Maybe she had never had a one night stand before or casual sex with a friend. Maybe she didn't know how to deal with those feelings and thought rape. Maybe she said no over and over but he didn't care because he didn't take it seriously.

No one knows all the facts or how it went down. But in my experience you can tell when a girl really means no. It can start with a a playful "stop it" but can go one of two ways, her playing hard to get or her saying "no I'm serious". When its the second you stop.

The girl in question has had "many" one night stands she is a JC.

A lot of the basketball and football team know her inside and out.

[MplsBison]

Obviously, we need to make pussy unattainable its just to easy to get now days..............................xcoffeex

What on earth are you blathering about?

Just go play with your guns. Perhaps learn a few more games of the "Russian" variety.

[Grizalltheway]

What on earth are you blathering about?

Just go play with your guns. Perhaps learn a few more games of the "Russian" variety.

The fact that you don't get the pretty straight forward joke there is pretty amusing, I gotta say.

[HannahO]

I think that's what most girls would do in that situation. I mean yeah, Johnson was a football player, but it's not like he was a 6'5" 300lb lineman. I just don't understand why she wouldn't put up any kind of resistance in that situation if she was serious about not wanting to have sex with him. I mean what's worse, getting socked by a guy or getting raped by him? And if you start screaming bloody murder I don't think any roommate would just sit there and keep playing video games. xtwocentsx

Sure it's easy to impose your expectations about what she should have done ... Just as in hindsight it is with all traumatic situations - combat, everyone thinks they're going to be Audie Murphy; a crazy guy in the theater, everyone thinks they would shield their loved one with their body; a house fire, running in to save the wheelchair bound person; someone being forcibly raped in the street, stepping in to stop it; someone drowning in the surf, diving in to save them and giving your life in the effort. The sad reality is that for everyone that reacts the way we think they should, there's multiple examples of people who, for whatever reason, bug out, shut down, or ignore the situation.

Until you can put yourself in the situation of that woman at that time, undergoing those alleged things, I don't know that any of us our in a position to say what she should have done. Clearly a jury will have to decide credibility but they will be in a better position to do so than a bunch of fans on a forum.

[MplsBison]

Sure it's easy to impose your expectations about what she should have done ... Just as in hindsight it is with all traumatic situations - combat, everyone thinks they're going to be Audie Murphy; a crazy guy in the theater, everyone thinks they would shield their loved one with their body; a house fire, running in to save the wheelchair bound person; someone being forcibly raped in the street, stepping in to stop it; someone drowning in the surf, diving in to save them and giving your life in the effort. The sad reality is that for everyone that reacts the way we think they should, there's multiple examples of people who, for whatever reason, bug out, shut down, or ignore the situation.

Until you can put yourself in the situation of that woman at that time, undergoing those alleged things, I don't know that any of us our in a position to say what she should have done. Clearly a jury will have to decide credibility but they will be in a better position to do so than a bunch of fans on a forum.

Well...let me ask you a very hard question. Don't take personal offense, because that's not the intention.

Should a girl who doesn't want to have sex with a guy but is too scared to tell him no or fight back....is that the guy's fault?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The girl in question has had "many" one night stands she is a JC.

A lot of the basketball and football team know her inside and out.

Alf, I hope we can go through this without dragging anyone through the mud until facts actually come out about this. Has something actually come out on that issue that I don't know about? Honestly, I haven't heard anything on this.

If that is true then it begs the question why would she have not claimed this in the past against the other partners and chose this one to do so? There are a lot of unanswered questions...

[HannahO]

Well...let me ask you a very hard question. Don't take personal offense, because that's not the intention.

Should a girl who doesn't want to have sex with a guy but is too scared to tell him no or fight back....is that the guy's fault?

Have you read any of the background documentation? She said "no" - there just seems to be some that feel she should have bruises, cuts and significant injuries in order to justify an accusation of rape. Just pointing out that until YOU know what it's like to be the victim of a traumatic event, you can't begin to understand all the variables of any given situation.

And please I hope that second sentence isn't a suggestion that the absence of consent or struggle equals consent for the guy to take what he wants!

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Alf, I hope we can go through this without dragging anyone through the mud until facts actually come out about this. Has something actually come out on that issue that I don't know about? Honestly, I haven't heard anything on this.

If that is true then it begs the question why would she have not claimed this in the past against the other partners and chose this one to do so? There are a lot of unanswered questions...

Cool lets stop dragging Jordan Johnson..............oh wait.......................

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Cool lets stop dragging Jordan Johnson..............oh wait.......................

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Exactly, dragging him through the mud and those trying to portray him as something they have zero idea about what he did is every bit as pathetic and short sighted. I haven't noticed a whole bunch of JJ being targeted here but I'll go re-read cuz I may have missed it.

[Nickels]

class act as always alpha...

[MplsBison]

Have you read any of the background documentation? She said "no" - there just seems to be some that feel she should have bruises, cuts and significant injuries in order to justify an accusation of rape. Just pointing out that until YOU know what it's like to be the victim of a traumatic event, you can't begin to understand all the variables of any given situation.

And please I hope that second sentence isn't a suggestion that the absence of consent or struggle equals consent for the guy to take what he wants!

It is wrong for a man to have sex with a woman who can not or does not give consent.

That will never change and is universally accepted.


What I'm suggesting is that in situations where a woman does not verbally or physically communicate that lack of consent, when she was perfectly capable of doing so, means that we can not find the man guilty of a crime, even if what he did was technically wrong.
The guy isn't a mind reader.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

class act as always alpha...

Just because you dont like what I posted doesnt mean it isnt true. I wouldnt post it if I didnt know it was fact.

[BR54Niner]

It is wrong for a man to have sex with a woman who can not or does not give consent.

That will never change and is universally accepted.


What I'm suggesting is that in situations where a woman does not verbally or physically communicate that lack of consent, when she was perfectly capable of doing so, means that we can not find the man guilty of a crime, even if what he did was technically wrong.
The guy isn't a mind reader.

Amen. It's not my fault she passed out in my house.

[citdog]

so no means yes????


right???

[eiu1999]

The girl in question has had "many" one night stands she is a JC.

A lot of the basketball and football team know her inside and out.

Should that matter if she did sleep around? Maybe this time it was different.

[laxVik]

http://bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/24025000/ngbbs4fdb43351294d.jpg

[MplsBison]

Amen. It's not my fault she passed out in my house.

It is wrong for a man to have sex with a woman who can not or does not give consent.

That will never change and is universally accepted


Twit. Troll.

[BR54Niner]

It is wrong for a man to have sex with a woman who can not or does not give consent.

That will never change and is universally accepted


Twit. Troll.

Lighten up Francis.

The fact is, if she's been known to sleep around, then it challenges her credibility. It's like a known thief carrying someone's wallet but stating he "was on his way to turn it in to lost & found this time". Doesn't mean he's a thief now, but sure doesn't look good given his past. And if she's got a history of sleeping around with other athletes, and if she didn't yell for help with a roommate one wall away and then she drove him home afterwards, then it's not a stretch to question her motives in this event. This isn't blaming the victim as she's not a victim yet. The courts will determine that later on. Too bad the QB in question isn't given the same benefit of doubt in court of public opinion. It's no more damaging to the alleged victim to question her credibility & past than it is publicize the alleged rapist in print & press prior to trial.

[MplsBison]

Lighten up Francis.

The fact is, if she's been known to sleep around, then it challenges her credibility. It's like a known thief carrying someone's wallet but stating he "was on his way to turn it in to lost & found this time". Doesn't mean he's a thief now, but sure doesn't look good given his past. And if she's got a history of sleeping around with other athletes, and if she didn't yell for help with a roommate one wall away and then she drove him home afterwards, then it's not a stretch to question her motives in this event. This isn't blaming the victim as she's not a victim yet. The courts will determine that later on. Too bad the QB in question isn't given the same benefit of doubt in court of public opinion. It's no more damaging to the alleged victim to question her credibility & past than it is publicize the alleged rapist in print & press prior to trial.

I thought you were making a sarcastic remark that my post meant it was acceptable to rape someone while they were passed out.

[BR54Niner]

I thought you were making a sarcastic remark that my post meant it was acceptable to rape someone while they were passed out.

Not at all. I was agreeing with your inference. Great minds think alike.xthumbsupx

[KNUTS]

I know that this thread is getting a little old but, here is the latest in the case against Jordan.

Here is the Motion to Dismiss submitted by Johnsons lawyers.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/missoulian.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/f5/cf57f39a-e18a-11e1-b7cd-001a4bcf887a/5022b6c6459cf.pdf.pdf&chrome=true&pli=1
Its a pretty quick easy read (15 pgs)

In it she responds to the charging documents submitted by the DA to add what the Prosecutor left out of her documents. Her responses are in the darker bold type and the original is the lighter type.

2 very different stories are being told here. Im pretty sure that the prosecutor has to present all the facts when turning cases over to the judge for review, but I could be mistaken. I think the lawyer for Johnson has done a pretty good job of supplying doubt in this case.

[Appaholic]

Read it. She's toast. Hopefully he can get his good name back & play against App. Move along, nothing to see here.

[Appaholic]

Not at all. I was agreeing with your inference. Great minds think alike.xthumbsupx

How true......so true...