Oh boy, here we go....WAC info

[JMU1992]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsususports/54567748-55/state-season-wac-conference.html.csp


"There still appears to be hope for a conference that's taking mammoth hits to its membership over the past three years. Hurd told The Tribune that a group of FCS schools back east, led by James Madison and Jacksonville State, are making a push for FBS status, and could potentially enter into the WAC in time for the 2014 season."

[ursus arctos horribilis]

WAC update posted this earlier today which seems odd considering...

http://www.rantsports.com/lacesout/2012/07/26/college-football-rumors-western-athletic-conference-to-not-play-football-in-2013/

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Any normal human being would admit they're wrong after reading this, but I'm betting that Mpls will not be able to admit how much of a tool he was in regards to his hundreds of posts on the subject of the WAC. xlolx

[DFW HOYA]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsususports/54567748-55/state-season-wac-conference.html.csp


"There still appears to be hope for a conference that's taking mammoth hits to its membership over the past three years. Hurd told The Tribune that a group of FCS schools back east, led by James Madison and Jacksonville State, are making a push for FBS status, and could potentially enter into the WAC in time for the 2014 season."

What's the back-up plan if the WAC goes under before then?

[asumike83]

WAC update posted this earlier today which seems odd considering...

http://www.rantsports.com/lacesout/2012/07/26/college-football-rumors-western-athletic-conference-to-not-play-football-in-2013/

I think WAC football 2013 died when the deadline passed in May, as there are no FBS programs they could get and be immediately eligible. If any FCS program agreed to join to the WAC, it would be for the 2014 season if the offer is officially accepted before next May's deadline, at least that is my understanding. The signals do seem a bit mixed coming from WAC land but I believe they actually are consistent if I'm reading everything right: there will be no WAC football in 2013 but they are in discussions with a group of schools about joining for football which would revive the WAC as a football conference in 2014 (or 2015, if this thing really drags on).

What throws me for a loop is the WAC commissioner saying they plan to announce football schools in the next 2-3 weeks. If that were the case, you'd think all those who cover the conference would be pretty confident that Idaho/NMSU go independent for one year and then resume in 2014 but that's not the vibe I'm getting.

[walliver]

If they plan on getting 6 teams from FCS, there aren't really a lot of options:
JSU and JMU are mentioned in the article.
ASU and GSU would be options (but GSU isn't ready yet).
Possibly Liberty and Delaware.

This would actually look like an interesting East Coast conference, with Idaho and USU looking like the outliers. But it would only work as a football only league, much like CAA football. If these schools try to go all-sports and the basketball and other teams start making routine transcontinental flights, it would get outrageously expensive for all involved. If these schools did join the WAC for football only, I doubt the SoCon and CAA would let them stay for other sports only and they would have problems finding non-football conferences. I doubt ASU and GSU would be happy in the A-Sun playing at USC-Upstate.

I suspect that as they try to work out the details, many of the details will be insurmountable and the deal will fall apart.

[dgtw]

If the eastern teams joined, each sport would only need to fly west once a year, as they'd be playing one of them at home. Well, Cal state Sacramento, Dallas Baptist and Cal State Bakersfield are baseball members, so that would be a long trip to one of those places. And North Dakota and Northern Arizona are in for women's swimming.

[MplsBison]

Any normal human being would admit they're wrong after reading this, but I'm betting that Mpls will not be able to admit how much of a tool he was in regards to his hundreds of posts on the subject of the WAC. xlolx

I shouldn't be surprised that you'd rush out a post trying to pigeonhole the article as proving me wrong in some fashion.

Not even close. If anything, it vindicates what I've been saying all along and makes you look like a complete idiot. You deserve nothing less.

[eaglewraith]

Well apparently the WAC has a 2 year waiver from the NCAA, so they need a plan to get members in by 2014. If that plan involves a lot of FCS moveups, then those schools will need waivers for some things too like being able to count games in the transition period against other transitional teams as FBS games to meet the scheduling requirement. It's possible the NCAA works with them to let the WAC survive.

[813Jag]

How about we all join the WAC?

[NHwildEcat]

I wish we knew who the other schools that may consider this crazy football plan are...how many CAA or SOCON teams?

[henfan]

If these schools did join the WAC for football only, I doubt the SoCon and CAA would let them stay for other sports only and they would have problems finding non-football conferences.

CAA and CAA FB are two separate entities and membership in one is not entirely dependent upon membership in the other. For example, JMU could withdraw from CAA FB and its CAA membership would not be impacted. IMO, it's a fatal flaw in CAA and CAA FB administration.

[TheRevSFA]

Yeah adding east coast schools is only a short term fix to a long term problem.

The WAC needs to look in the western half of the United States.

[NHwildEcat]

Yeah adding east coast schools is only a short term fix to a long term problem.

The WAC needs to look in the western half of the United States.

Or maybe Canada? They let in one school in D2 on a trial basis...it is only a matter of time before the NCAA begins to allow full membership north of the border.

[aust42]

If they plan on getting 6 teams from FCS, there aren't really a lot of options:
JSU and JMU are mentioned in the article.
ASU and GSU would be options (but GSU isn't ready yet).
Possibly Liberty and Delaware.

This would actually look like an interesting East Coast conference, with Idaho and USU looking like the outliers. But it would only work as a football only league, much like CAA football. If these schools try to go all-sports and the basketball and other teams start making routine transcontinental flights, it would get outrageously expensive for all involved. If these schools did join the WAC for football only, I doubt the SoCon and CAA would let them stay for other sports only and they would have problems finding non-football conferences. I doubt ASU and GSU would be happy in the A-Sun playing at USC-Upstate.

I suspect that as they try to work out the details, many of the details will be insurmountable and the deal will fall apart.

Delaware has no interest in the WAC I can assure you. I can't imagine any east coast school in their right mind would entertain the thought of joining the WAC for the reasons you mentioned. The WAC appears to be finished. Dam shame

[MplsBison]

CAA and CAA FB are two separate entities and membership in one is not entirely dependent upon membership in the other. For example, JMU could withdraw from CAA FB and its CAA membership would not be impacted. IMO, it's a fatal flaw in CAA and CAA FB administration.

It's the exact same way for the MVC and MVFC. Different memberships in each.

Don't see a problem.

[MplsBison]

Delaware has no interest in the WAC I can assure you. I can't imagine any east coast school in their right mind would entertain the thought of joining the WAC for the reasons you mentioned. The WAC appears to be finished. Dam shame

Because you twit - 6 of the 8 teams would be on the east coast.

[superman7515]

Delaware has no interest in the WAC I can assure you. I can't imagine any east coast school in their right mind would entertain the thought of joining the WAC for the reasons you mentioned. The WAC appears to be finished. Dam shame

It wasn't that long ago that James Madison and Delaware also said they were tied to each other and if one left, the other was going, but the conference they went to would have to take both of them. At least in theory, if James Madison is in discussions, so is Delaware.

[whitey]

It wasn't that long ago that James Madison and Delaware also said they were tied to each other and if one left, the other was going, but the conference they went to would have to take both of them. At least in theory, if James Madison is in discussions, so is Delaware.

Agreed. Since this would almost surely be a football only move for the east coast teams I don't see why this would be so bad for Delaware if the eastern half of the conference had Delaware, James Madison, Appalachian State, Georgia Southern, Jax State, Liberty and perhaps two others (Towson?, ?).

[asumike83]

I can see two scenarios where Appalachian would join the WAC for football only:

1) At least three out of Georgia Southern, James Madison, Delaware, Liberty and Jacksonville State join AND they can house their other sports in the SoCon or CAA.
2) The NCAA implements another moratorium on transitioning from FCS to FBS.

The WAC needs teams and these schools have almost a full year to make a decision and be able to play in 2014. Still not sure how realistic an option it is but if nothing else, it is a fall-back plan in the event that the 10-year moratorium is more than just a rumor.

[MplsBison]

I can see two scenarios where Appalachian would join the WAC for football only:

1) At least three out of Georgia Southern, James Madison, Delaware, Liberty and Jacksonville State join AND they can house their other sports in the SoCon or CAA.
2) The NCAA implements another moratorium on transitioning from FCS to FBS.

The WAC needs teams and these schools have almost a full year to make a decision and be able to play in 2014. Still not sure how realistic an option it is but if nothing else, it is a fall-back plan in the event that the 10-year moratorium is more than just a rumor.

An I-AA school will never be able to join I-A on their own.

That gate is welded shut.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Oh, wait, some required reading to go with this report:


@caahoops A source told us in May that the WAC reached out to JMU and Dukes aren't interested. Voting for CAA's $1mil opt-out supports that.

There. Go about your business of pilloring Mpls. xlolx

[asumike83]

Oh, wait, some required reading to go with this report:



There. Go about your business of pilloring Mpls. xlolx

Not taking sides in this argument but hasn't JMU gotten a new president since then? I'm not sure what his goals are but my understanding is that he is more supportive of an FBS move than the prior president.

[JMU2004]

IF JMU leaves for football only, the penalty does not apply.

[MplsBison]

Not taking sides in this argument but hasn't JMU gotten a new president since then? I'm not sure what his goals are but my understanding is that he is more supportive of an FBS move than the prior president.

Don't bother. He's a troll.

He decided that I-A is evil and will try to pigeonhole in any way he can.

[MplsBison]

Oh, wait, some required reading to go with this report:



There. Go about your business of pilloring Mpls. xlolx

A) MAY
B) Football only.


Friggin' putz.

[superman7515]

IF JMU leaves for football only, the penalty does not apply.

Yep. No penalties apply if a school moves to FBS.

[MplsBison]

Honestly, how can Delaware, JMU, App St and Georgia Southern *NOT* work with Jax St and Liberty to try making this work for football only?!

This could be the last chance in 12 years to move up to I-A, for anyone.

[asumike83]

Honestly, how can Delaware, JMU, App St and Georgia Southern *NOT* work with Jax St and Liberty to try making this work for football only?!

This could be the last chance in 12 years to move up to I-A, for anyone.

I'd love to see the schools work together in some fashion. Although the CAA and CAA FB are two separate entities and they could leave without penalty and keep their other sports in the CAA, the schools from other conferences don't have that luxury. Exit fees wouldn't be a deal-breaker but finding a home for all other sports could take some time to figure out.

In theory, I totally agree though. Joining a football conference with Appalachian, Delaware, James Madison, Liberty, Georgia Southern and Jacksonville State while the schools keep all other sports in their existing conference would be best-case scenario. A football-only conference with existing rivalries, reasonable travel without any effect on other sports would be great. I'm just not getting my hopes up that it will come to fruition. Lots of moving parts.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'd love to see the schools work together in some fashion. Although the CAA and CAA FB are two separate entities and they could leave without penalty and keep their other sports in the CAA, the schools from other conferences don't have that luxury. Exit fees wouldn't be a deal-breaker but finding a home for all other sports could take some time to figure out.

In theory, I totally agree though. Joining a football conference with Appalachian, Delaware, James Madison, Liberty, Georgia Southern and Jacksonville State while the schools keep all other sports in their existing conference would be best-case scenario. A football-only conference with existing rivalries, reasonable travel without any effect on other sports would be great. I'm just not getting my hopes up that it will come to fruition. Lots of moving parts.

Not least Idaho's interest in such a conference. Boise in the Big East, Idaho in the Big Least?

[aust42]

It wasn't that long ago that James Madison and Delaware also said they were tied to each other and if one left, the other was going, but the conference they went to would have to take both of them. At least in theory, if James Madison is in discussions, so is Delaware.

I can assure you Delaware has no interest in moving to the WAC.

[asumike83]

Not least Idaho's interest in such a conference. Boise in the Big East, Idaho in the Big Least?

Not ideal for Idaho/NMSU by any means but I think they've exhausted all options in their part of the country. If their choices are adding schools in the East or FBS independence, I think they'd prefer to have a home. The WAC commissioner has said pretty openly that they're looking East to West at this point to keep the conference alive. It would be pretty ironic if this did happen and the geographic outliers were the two existing WAC members actually in the West.

[superman7515]

I can assure you Delaware has no interest in moving to the WAC.

Oh, I wholeheartedly believe you. It's a combination of overinflated sense of self-worth and myopic complacency.

[MplsBison]

Not least Idaho's interest in such a conference. Boise in the Big East, Idaho in the Big Least?

Better than no football!

If WAC or independence doesn't work out, they'll kill the program before crawling back to the Big Sky. Done deal.

[MplsBison]

I can assure you Delaware has no interest in moving to the WAC.

Give it a rest old-timer. Heard you the first time.

[MplsBison]

Not ideal for Idaho/NMSU by any means but I think they've exhausted all options in their part of the country. If their choices are adding schools in the East or FBS independence, I think they'd prefer to have a home. The WAC commissioner has said pretty openly that they're looking East to West at this point to keep the conference alive. It would be pretty ironic if this did happen and the geographic outliers were the two existing WAC members actually in the West.

West coast schools in the Big East. East coast schools in the WAC. Who cares?

All these schools have to charter airplanes and rent out hotels on away games anyway. You're talking fuel costs. That's the only difference and given a likely minimum charge to charter an Airbus, I have my doubts Idaho would be looking at any significantly higher travel costs anyway.

Have to fly to a good majority of the members in the MWC from Moscow.

[grayghost06]

Well there's always one or two on every message board.

Here's a news bulletin: Contrary to what you may believe, you(Mpls) are not the last word on everything. Damn, you are one argumentative arrogant SOB. Every thread- no matter what the topic, vitriol just spews out. Makes the boards impossible to read. Were you not hugged enough as a kid? Seriously, what kind of person goes around arguing bitterly about everything? Really sours all the respect I have about NDSUs program, their coach and the great fans I met in Frisco.

[MplsBison]

Well there's always one or two on every message board.

Here's a news bulletin: Contrary to what you may believe, you(Mpls) are not the last word on everything. Damn, you are one argumentative arrogant SOB. Every thread- no matter what the topic, vitriol just spews out. Makes the boards impossible to read. Were you not hugged enough as a kid? Seriously, what kind of person goes around arguing bitterly about everything? Really sours all the respect I have about NDSUs program, their coach and the great fans I met in Frisco.

Thanks for adding substance to the thread, gray.

By the way, NDSU stomped down on JMU's throat in Fargo. Thanks

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Thanks for adding substance to the thread, gray.

By the way, NDSU stomped down on JMU's throat in Fargo. Thanks

As if Mpls went to either that game, or the national champ game xlolx

[walliver]

Interestingly, adding 6 east coast teams would make this an Eastern conference. If this could be set up, Idaho and New Mexico State would probably be forced to move all their other sports to another conference and become football-only members. They would also need to change the name.

Essentially, the plan they are establishing is just a way to "sell" the name and FBS rights of the WAC to what would be a new conference, as well as giving Idaho and NMSU a football home.

[MplsBison]

Interestingly, adding 6 east coast teams would make this an Eastern conference. If this could be set up, Idaho and New Mexico State would probably be forced to move all their other sports to another conference and become football-only members. They would also need to change the name.

Essentially, the plan they are establishing is just a way to "sell" the name and FBS rights of the WAC to what would be a new conference, as well as giving Idaho and NMSU a football home.

None of the teams would be joining the WAC for non-football sports. It's a football-only deal. The WAC has enough teams or will have enough teams to survive on the non-football side.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Interestingly, adding 6 east coast teams would make this an Eastern conference. If this could be set up, Idaho and New Mexico State would probably be forced to move all their other sports to another conference and become football-only members. They would also need to change the name.

Essentially, the plan they are establishing is just a way to "sell" the name and FBS rights of the WAC to what would be a new conference, as well as giving Idaho and NMSU a football home.

Hmmm.... "The Chick-Fil-A Conference", or perhaps, "Bank of America Conference".

Maybe the naming rights might mean their members might not have to cough up as much of a fee every year for their champion to play in a bowl game against the 3rd best MAC/Sun Belt team, whichever has a winning record.

But all this talk about such a conference is truly ridiculous. Who would run the conference, the WAC? Where would they hold their media day, Harrisonburg? Fly six East Coast teams out to Moscow? Would Idaho even be able to survive as nomads in three OOC games and three East Coast conference trips? And most importantly, who would televise this crap?

[SumItUp]

None of the teams would be joining the WAC for non-football sports. It's a football-only deal. The WAC has enough teams or will have enough teams to survive on the non-football side.

To sponsor football as a conference, it is my understanding that you need a minimum of eight football playing members that play all sports in the conference. If so, these will not be football only invites.

[MplsBison]

To sponsor football as a conference, it is my understanding that you need a minimum of eight football playing members that play all sports in the conference. If so, these will not be football only invites.

Your understanding is incorrect.

To have an I-A football conference, you need 8 football teams.

To get autobids to most of the NCAA post season tournaments in team sports, you need 6 teams I believe. For men's basketball there was another set of rules (such as the "765" rule and "core" vs. "active" members), but I know they recently simpilfied that. I think you just need 7 teams now for men's basketball auto-bid.


That said, a WAC conference consisting of: Idaho, Boise St, Seattle, Denver, New Mexico St, and adding Utah Valley St and Cal St Bakersfield gets it done, for now.

Boise St is trying to buy off the Big West with promises of "travel subsidies", but they ain't getting in. No way. It's different with Hawaii in what they can offer in terms of quality, non-football teams, warm weather destination for conference functions, even recruiting, etc. No one in Cali wants to slog up to Idaho. Not even for a ski trip.


There's also the strong possibility that the WAC and Big Sky will form a defacto merger of the Big Sky's 11 full members plus the WAC's 5 non-football members into two 8 team conferences, preserving 2 auto-bids out west and preserving the WAC's tournament credits from Utah St and Nevada.

Conclusion: WAC conference ain't closing down shop. The football conference may well die, but again I think they've got another card to play before it's all said and done.

[dgtw]

Since there is no postseason tournament in football, a conference could seemingly sponsor football with however many members they want to. While two would be a bit silly, I don't see why the NCAA would say anything if a six member league wanted to award a football championship. Although they might not be allowed to have a conference rep at NCAA football meetings.

[MplsBison]

According to wikipeida, here is the WAC lineup for 2013-14.

All sports
Idaho
New Mexico State

All sports, do not have football
Denver
Seattle

Baseball members
Cal State Bakersfield
Cal State Sacramento
Dallas Baptist

Women's gymnastics members
Cal State Sacramento
Southern Utah

Women's swimming members
North Dakota
Northern Arizona

Boise State is listed as a possible future member. It said they have said they will join the WAC in all sports but football (Big East) and wrestling (Pac 12), but it hasn't been finalized and might join the Big West.

WAC sports
Football (Idaho, NMSU)
Basketball (Idaho, NMSU, Denver, Seattle)
Baseball (NMSU, Seattle, Sac St, Dallas Baptist, Bakersfield)
Softball (NMSU, Seattle)
Volleyball (W) (Denver, Idaho, NMSU, Seattle)
Gymnastics (W) (Boise, Denver, Sacramento State)
Soccer (W) (Denver, Seattle, NMSU, Idaho)
Tennis (Denver, Seattle, Idaho, NMSU)

For the sports listed above, I got the members from standings listed on the WAC's webstite for 2012-13. The following I got from news archives on the site about last year's meets and tournaments.

Swimming (W) Northern Arizona, North Dakota, NMSU and Idaho liusted in 2012 meet)
Indoor track (W) (NMSU and Idaho listed in 2012 meet)
Indoor track (M) (Idaho listed in 2012 meet)
Outdoor track (W) (Idaho and NMSU listed in 2012 meet)
Outdoor track (M) (Idaho listed in 2012 meet)
Cross country (W) (Idaho and NMSU listed in 2011 preseason poll)
Cross country (M) (Idaho and NMSU listed in 2011 preseason poll)
Golf (Idaho and NMSU listed in 2012 WAC tournament for both sexes)

To summarize the lineups as the look now for 2013-14:
Men
Football-2
Baseball-5
Basketball-4
Golf-2
Tennis-4
Indoor track-1
Outdoor track-1
Cross country-2

Women:
Basketball-4
Softball-2
Volleyball-4
Gymnastics-3
Soccer-4
Golf-2
Tennis-4
Swimming-4
Indoor track-2
Outdoor track-2
Cross country-2


So adding football only members is not going to save the league. The most they have in any sport is baseball with five. I think you need six to get an auotbid from the NCAA, so the affiliates may be looking elsewhere. Boise State does not play baseball, so that won't help if they still join the WAC. They do play every other WAC sport, however.

I think Idaho's men are a lock for the 2014 men's track championship.

Auto-bids only matter for post-season NCAA tournaments that have a team format.

That's the following WAC non-football sports:
Baseball-5
Men's Basketball-4
Women's Basketball-4
Softball-2
Women's Volleyball-4
Women's Soccer-4
Men's Tennis-4
Women's Tennis-4

Every other sport, an individual simply qualifies for the post season on his or her own based on regular season performances or performances at regional qualifying competitions. The "team" champion in such sports is then just the highest compilation performance of a school's individuals at the national competition. It's a stupid way to do that, especially when a lot of those sports do have long established formats for true team competitions, but that's another thread.

I believe Men's bball is the only outlier in needing 7 teams, while the rest only need 6 for an auto bid. Regardless, both bball's, women's soccer, women's tennis and women's volleyvball are saved with the addition of Boise, Bakersfield and Utah Valley.

Baseball is saved with the addition of Utah Valley. (and btw, isn't Dallas Baptist already proving the point for football and with far more games?)

Softball is an interesting story. There is the Pacific Coast Softball conference, which is basically the WCC and Big Sky schools that have the sport since neither had enough teams to sponsor it themselves. However with BYU and now Pacific going to the WCC, they have 6 and with UND and SUU going to the Big Sky, they have 7. Utah Valley, Boise and Bakersfield all have softball. That gives the WAC 5 softball teams. Gotta find one more...either convince Dallas Baptist to double dip or beg, plead Idaho or Denver to start the sport.

Men's Tennis, I'm not sure what they'll do. Boise St has men's tennis, surprisingly enough, but Bakersfield only has women's and Utah Valley doesn't have tennis period. I guess they'd ask Bakersfield to start a men's program.

But even if softball and men's tennis are the only casualties.....FAR from the doomsday scenario that everyone thinks it is.

[MplsBison]

Since there is no postseason tournament in football, a conference could seemingly sponsor football with however many members they want to. While two would be a bit silly, I don't see why the NCAA would say anything if a six member league wanted to award a football championship. Although they might not be allowed to have a conference rep at NCAA football meetings.

There won't be an auto-bids in I-A starting with the 2014 season, either. So you're right that football conference membership requirements are kinda irrelevant, in that regard.

However, to be recognized as an official I-A conference does confer at least two significant benefits that I can think of off the top of my head: A) being able to invite I-AA members officially and B) sharing in the revenue of the post season TV deals.

[dgtw]

Tennis has a team match format.

http://www.ncaa.com/interactive-bracket/tennis-men/d1

Are there rules about how many sports a league has to sponsor?

Utah St. is going to the MWC. Do you mean to say Utah Valley? They are in the Great West now, but I can see why they'd want out of a league with a team from New Jersey.

[laxVik]

Doesn't the WAC still have a bowl game tie in? Good for NMSU or UI I guess. Enjoy it.

[GSU EAGLES]

This is all on JMU to make it work. Without them, there are not enough teams. Idaho, NMSU, Jax, Liberty are 100% in. Ga Southern would probably be in if ASU and JMU move for football only.

[MplsBison]

Tennis has a team match format.

http://www.ncaa.com/interactive-bracket/tennis-men/d1

Are there rules about how many sports a league has to sponsor?

Utah St. is going to the MWC. Do you mean to say Utah Valley? They are in the Great West now, but I can see why they'd want out of a league with a team from New Jersey.

Yep, Utah Valley. I'll correct the mistake in the post. The Great West is pretty well dead now, I think.

Don't think there are any rules for DI conferences. Just for qualifying for auto bids.


Thanks for correcting me on Tennis as well. Also will update that in the post.

[MplsBison]

This is all on JMU to make it work. Without them, there are not enough teams. Idaho, NMSU, Jax, Liberty are 100% in. Ga Southern would probably be in if ASU and JMU move for football only.

I still wouldn't expect JSU or Liberty to send non-football sports to the west coast. No way. Too expensive.

Atlantic Sun or Big South seem reasonable. Perhaps even the SoCon for JSU non-football?

[MplsBison]

Doesn't the WAC still have a bowl game tie in? Good for NMSU or UI I guess. Enjoy it.

Yep, in Boise vs. the MAC.

[dgtw]

There is some western based league that seems to serve as a catch all conference for schools needing to stick a sport somewhere if their league doesn't sponsor it. I guess some school wanted to put sports there if the WAC didn't want to sponsor an official meet in that sport.

Here it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Pacific_Sports_Federation

That would take care of indoor track, gymnastics and women's swimming.

I don't know if the OVC would let Jax State stay if their football team left. The league seems to have an anti-football bias. They blocked UNA but have let in non-football schools. I was at a Jax St gathering recently (my wife is a grad) and spoke to an assistant AD about FBS. He said they were trying to get in the WAC, but needed to upgrade basketball and baseball facilities.

[MplsBison]

There is some western based league that seems to serve as a catch all conference for schools needing to stick a sport somewhere if their league doesn't sponsor it. I guess some school wanted to put sports there if the WAC didn't want to sponsor an official meet in that sport.

Here it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Pacific_Sports_Federation

That would take care of indoor track, gymnastics and women's swimming.

I don't know if the OVC would let Jax State stay if their football team left. The league seems to have an anti-football bias. They blocked UNA but have let in non-football schools. I was at a Jax St gathering recently (my wife is a grad) and spoke to an assistant AD about FBS. He said they were trying to get in the WAC, but needed to upgrade basketball and baseball facilities.

Thanks for the info.

You know, honestly, the idea of teams play so far out of region is such a new and radical idea...I kinda wonder if the AD's even fully realize what's actually possible.

They might be so geared into the old way of thinking.


So like this JSU guy, perhaps in his mind he's thinking that JSU can only have one conference for all sports - so that has to be the WAC.

I just can't understand sending ALL the teams over to the west coast when they should easily be able to get into a closer league for non-football.

We'll see, I guess.

[dgtw]

I didn't get into it in depth with him regarding football only, this was at a bar and was also having dinner with my wife and her friends and didn't want to pin down some total stranger for an hour discussing this issue. I'm sure they'd consider a football only deal if they could keep their other sports somewhere closer to home.

Personally, I don't like being in one league for just football, but if it gets us in FBS I could live with it if it could lead to a regional all sports league down the road. I don't like the OVC having non-football schools so getting out would be an improvement.

Perhaps if we joined the WAC with a bunch of other eastern schools they could form a league for the rest of the sports.

[Saint3333]

This is all on JMU to make it work. Without them, there are not enough teams. Idaho, NMSU, Jax, Liberty are 100% in. Ga Southern would probably be in if ASU and JMU move for football only.

I think Delaware is the lynchpin, if they were to say yes JMU falls in line, then App, then GSU. I just don't see Delaware saying yes without quite a bit of coaxing from JMU and App. Not very likely IMO.

[MplsBison]

I think Delaware is the lynchpin, if they were to say yes JMU falls in line, then App, then GSU. I just don't see Delaware saying yes without quite a bit of coaxing from JMU and App. Not very likely IMO.

I don't see what Delaware has to lose. CAA football is turning into AE football, the conference they left to get away from. More and more of the legacy top tier programs are leaving I-AA for I-A or making their intentions known, this could be the last chance for the Hens to get on board for the next 12 years or so.

If they make a public statement to the effect of "We're willing to consider the WAC football concept if no less than 6 eastern conference I-AA schools are willing to make the move together" and it doesn't happen, nothing lost.

[GSU EAGLES]

I think Delaware is the lynchpin, if they were to say yes JMU falls in line, then App, then GSU. I just don't see Delaware saying yes without quite a bit of coaxing from JMU and App. Not very likely IMO.

Delaware will hold out for CUSA. I just don't see them making the move to the WAC.

[UAalum72]

Are there rules about how many sports a league has to sponsor?

20.02.05 Multisport Conference (summarized)
20.02.05.1 At least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men's and women's basketball
20.02.05.2 Sports Sponsorship
(a) minimum of twelve Division I sports
(b) Men - six sports, including basketball, with at least seven membersl; football OR two other men's team sports, with at least six members; five sports (including FB or team sports) with at least six members
(c) Women - six sports, including basketball with seven members; two other team sports; five sports other than basketball with six members (or five members in emerging sports)

Also rules on minimum number of conference games, and continuity of membership.

FBS requires six men and eight women's sports (three team sports)

[Saint3333]

Delaware will hold out for CUSA. I just don't see them making the move to the WAC.

I agree I really see all three; UD, App, and JMU holding out for another offer. Both choices are risky.

[GSU EAGLES]

I agree I really see all three; UD, App, and JMU holding out for another offer. Both choices are risky.

I can understand Delaware holding out since they have the Philly market.

As far as App, GSU amd JMU it is soon becoming time to sh** or get off the pot. If you want to be FBS, then make the WAC happen and be prepared to commit to that conference at least 5 years. If you can get top FCS east teams on board then it is not much different than the Sun Belt with potential to be better.

[MplsBison]

20.02.05 Multisport Conference (summarized)
20.02.05.1 At least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men's and women's basketball
20.02.05.2 Sports Sponsorship
(a) minimum of twelve Division I sports
(b) Men - six sports, including basketball, with at least seven membersl; football OR two other men's team sports, with at least six members; five sports (including FB or team sports) with at least six members
(c) Women - six sports, including basketball with seven members; two other team sports; five sports other than basketball with six members (or five members in emerging sports)

Also rules on minimum number of conference games, and continuity of membership.

FBS requires six men and eight women's sports (three team sports)

Thanks for posting that.

So this confirms the WAC can survive on it's own by adding Bakersfield, Boise and Utah Valley.

Better scenario is probably to work out some kinda deal with Big Sky.

[MplsBison]

I can understand Delaware holding out since they have the Philly market.

As far as App, GSU amd JMU it is soon becoming time to sh** or get off the pot. If you want to be FBS, then make the WAC happen and be prepared to commit to that conference at least 5 years. If you can get top FCS east teams on board then it is not much different than the Sun Belt with potential to be better.

If any of the teams are going to CUSA, it's most certainly JMU and App St. That would make a great pairing with Charlotte, ECU, ODU and Marshall.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

I seem recall a comment made from someone in the UD athletic department that they didn't feel C-USA would be a good fit. Of the current FBS conferences that are likely to accept a FCS team the MAC seems like the most likely choice, though JMU would be a bit out of the footprint there.

Of course, I'm sure the real pie in the sky hope in Newark is that somehow some way the Big East gets desperate enough to draw up some FCS teams and we can be reunited with Temple, Rutgers, and UConn.

[MplsBison]

In my opinion, Big East still sees itself as legitimately competing with the ACC, which sees itself as legitimately competing with the SEC.

Don't see FCS move ups in the Big East unless they can pull a UConn caliber move and already playing bball there.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Back in realityville, the WAC will cease to sponsor football, Delaware stays in FCS, the CAA remains the top conference in terms of TV exposure and at-large playoff teams. Please, don't get sucked into Mpls' little fantasy world.

[UAalum72]

I seem recall a comment made from someone in the UD athletic department that they didn't feel C-USA would be a good fit. Of the current FBS conferences that are likely to accept a FCS team the MAC seems like the most likely choice, though JMU would be a bit out of the footprint there.

Harrisonburg is closer to Kent and Bowling Green than Newark is.

[danefan]

Buffalo fans are saying JMU and UD wre both approached by the MAC in the Spring and both turned it down.

Why would either jump into this? Whatever it turns out to be, it's worse than the MAC.

[mountaineer in Cane Land]

If that rumor is true about JM and Delaware turning down the MAC, it doesn't seem to be a smart move. What I don't understand is JM stance on moving up or staying put. For the past couple of years they have preached about their desire to move up, but the last 3-4 months kinda get the feeling they are having second thoughts. Anybody have an idea whats goiing on with JM?

[MplsBison]

Buffalo fans are saying JMU and UD wre both approached by the MAC in the Spring and both turned it down.

Why would either jump into this? Whatever it turns out to be, it's worse than the MAC.

Basically obsolete info. Spring might as well have been 10 years ago, compared to how things are now.

It's a very simple equation: if JM and UD want I-A, this is their only guaranteed chance. Possibly the CUSA could come around for JM, but not guaranteed. Else, it's stay in I-AA for the next 12 years at least.

[MplsBison]

Back in realityville, the WAC will cease to sponsor football, Delaware stays in FCS, the CAA remains the top conference in terms of TV exposure and at-large playoff teams. Please, don't get sucked into Mpls' little fantasy world.

You won't admit that you were utterly and stupidly wrong, if it happens. Of course.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Buffalo fans are saying JMU and UD wre both approached by the MAC in the Spring and both turned it down.

Why would either jump into this? Whatever it turns out to be, it's worse than the MAC.

If true, I'm not sure why either school would turn down an invite to the MAC IF they had serious FBS aspirations. I actually really enjoyed Temple's time in the conference, solid academic schools with like minded goals, tv games, small, but passionate fanbases, driveable road games etc.

[DFW HOYA]

If true, I'm not sure why either school would turn down an invite to the MAC IF they had serious FBS aspirations. I actually really enjoyed Temple's time in the conference, solid academic schools with like minded goals, tv games, small, but passionate fanbases, driveable road games etc.

MAC football is actually fairly entertaining, and a great starting point for a lot of NFL talent. No 9-6 games, either.

[RadioFan]

Else, it's stay in I-AA for the next 12 years at least.



There has been NO official talks about a moratorium. You're the only person I see on the internet talking about it like it is going to happen. Calm down.

[MplsBison]

There has been NO official talks about a moratorium. You're the only person I see on the internet talking about it like it is going to happen. Calm down.

Huh? No one's talking about it because it happened years ago.

The I-A gate is welded shut. I-AA teams are not permitted to move up without an invitation. It's done.

[darell1976]

Huh? No one's talking about it because it happened years ago.

The I-A gate is welded shut. I-AA teams are not permitted to move up without an invitation. It's done.

The WAC has open arms. As an affiliate member of the WAC (women's swimming) if UND had a bigger dome (not 15,000 per NCAA requirement) I am sure the WAC would pursue UND along with the Montana's.

[MplsBison]

The WAC has open arms. As an affiliate member of the WAC (women's swimming) if UND had a bigger dome (not 15,000 per NCAA requirement) I am sure the WAC would pursue UND along with the Montana's.

Yes, I know that. Read the post I was responding to before responding.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You won't admit that you were utterly and stupidly wrong, if it happens. Of course.

I feel quite comfortable that the necessary amendments to the NCAA bylaws to allow FBS football-only robo-conferences will not come to fruition to make your fantasy come true.

[MplsBison]

I feel quite comfortable that the necessary amendments to the NCAA bylaws to allow FBS football-only robo-conferences will not come to fruition to make your fantasy come true.

....wow.

You are far more senile and out of the loop than I thought, if you actually think there is a single rule in place now that would stop the WAC from inviting JMU, Delaware, App St, GA Southern, Liberty and Jax St as football only members.

[darell1976]

Yes, I know that. Read the post I was responding to before responding.

I am just making a statement about the WAC and its invite. They tried to invite Montana and they said no. Now they thought about other teams in the Big Sky and just saying since UND is in the WAC in another sport they could very well be on the WAC's radar. If the NCAA were to drop the 15,000 attendance rule alltogether (IMO its a joke and NOT enforced) then UND could move up (but I think they would follow what UM and MSU does..BSC is a perfect home for them).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

....wow.

You are far more senile and out of the loop than I thought, if you actually think there is a single rule in place now that would stop the WAC from inviting JMU, Delaware, App St, GA Southern, Liberty and Jax St as football only members.

http://www.whsv.com/sports/headlines/Liberty_Looking_For_FBS_Invitation_151479275.html


In a move that seems primarily to be football driven, Liberty Athletic Director Jeff Barber made it clear this move ideally is about improving athletics as a whole.

"We are looking to move our entire sports program into an FBS conference. The rule is you have to have eight schools play in all sports to be an FBS conference, certainly our intention and our goal is to bring all 20 sports," said Barber.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?S=451&F=2368&T=9141459&P=1


20.02.6 Football Bowl Subdivision Conference. A conference classified as a Football Bowl Subdivision conference shall be comprised of at least eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members that satisfy all bowl subdivision requirements. An institution shall be included as one of the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members only if the institution participates in the conference schedule in at least six men’s and eight women’s conferencesponsored sports, including men’s basketball and football and three women’s team sports including women’s basketball. A conference-sponsored sport shall be a sport in which regular-season and/or championship opportunities are provided, consistent with the minimum standards identified by the applicable NCAA sport committee for automatic qualification. (Adopted: 10/31/02 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

Do I expect these facts to take you away from your WAC/FBS fantasy? No, be perhaps other less dim members of the board may think otherwise. Carry on.

[MplsBison]

I am just making a statement about the WAC and its invite. They tried to invite Montana and they said no. Now they thought about other teams in the Big Sky and just saying since UND is in the WAC in another sport they could very well be on the WAC's radar. If the NCAA were to drop the 15,000 attendance rule alltogether (IMO its a joke and NOT enforced) then UND could move up (but I think they would follow what UM and MSU does..BSC is a perfect home for them).

Yes, UND could move up. I don't see 15k being anything - even right now. They'd figure out a way to put 1.5k more seats in there now.

But like you said, with Montana's declining I don't see Dakotas getting a serious look.

[MplsBison]

http://www.whsv.com/sports/headlines/Liberty_Looking_For_FBS_Invitation_151479275.html



http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?S=451&F=2368&T=9141459&P=1



Do I expect these facts to take you away from your WAC/FBS fantasy? No, be perhaps other less dim members of the board may think otherwise. Carry on.

Like I thought, there is no rule that would prohibit the WAC from inviting JMU, Delaware, App St, GA Southern, Liberty and Jax St as football only members.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Like I thought, there is no rule that would prohibit the WAC from inviting JMU, Delaware, App St, GA Southern, Liberty and Jax St as football only members.

There's nothing stopping them from inviting them as football-only members. They just wouldn't be an FBS conference, as per the NCAA rules.

Silly Mpls.

[darell1976]

Yes, UND could move up. I don't see 15k being anything - even right now. They'd figure out a way to put 1.5k more seats in there now.

But like you said, with Montana's declining I don't see Dakotas getting a serious look.

You could just sell dummy tickets and just count ticket sales like Eastern Michigan instead of counting actual people going through the turnstiles.

[TheRevSFA]

The WAC is only going to invite schools that can compete in all sports, not just football only.

They're staying west of the Mississippi

[Twentysix]

You could just sell dummy tickets and just count ticket sales like Eastern Michigan instead of counting actual people going through the turnstiles.

UND already does that, my you haven't pumped gas lately. :P

[MplsBison]

There's nothing stopping them from inviting them as football-only members. They just wouldn't be an FBS conference, as per the NCAA rules.

Silly Mpls.

If you say so. Not to mention they'd get a waiver anyway.

Thanks for admitting you were wrong.

[MplsBison]

You could just sell dummy tickets and just count ticket sales like Eastern Michigan instead of counting actual people going through the turnstiles.

Well...yeah, maybe.

I know the deal is you can count either ticket sales (so long as the price is some minimum fraction of the highest priced ticket - ie, no give aways) or actual attendance. But I think that assumes the stadium actually seats the number of tickets sold.

Eastern Michigan, believe it or not, has a big stadium.

[MplsBison]

The WAC is only going to invite schools that can compete in all sports, not just football only.

They're staying west of the Mississippi

They'll definitely invite football-only and east of the Mississippi, of those schools will agree to it.

[TheRevSFA]

They'll definitely invite football-only and east of the Mississippi, of those schools will agree to it.

I'm not sure why you think the NCAA will give the WAC a waiver. The WAC ran themselves into the ground.

It's not going to happen. I'd put money towards charity on it.

[jmufan]

I'm not sure why you think the NCAA will give the WAC a waiver. The WAC ran themselves into the ground.

It's not going to happen. I'd put money towards charity on it.

They've already given them one waiver that ends in 2013.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If you say so. Not to mention they'd get a waiver anyway.

Based on what facts? Oh, wait, there are none in your little fantasy world.

Humoring silly Mpls for a moment, it would have to be a historic waiver to allow the FBS to drastically change what it has ever meant to be an FBS conference, kind of like giving a waiver to allow the PSAC to compete in Division I in football only because West Chester plays Delaware every year and they need the money. I.e., fantasy land.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

They've already given them one waiver that ends in 2013.

They're giving them two years to get their act together, but that's drastically different than amending NCAA rules to allow (essentially) FBS football-only zombie conferences where the conference name is simply a label used to enclose schools with FBS ambitions.

[TheRevSFA]

They've already given them one waiver that ends in 2013.

Yes, but they aren't going to waive current FBS rules to allow them to bring in 6-8 football only schools.

They will need them for all sports, and App and JMU won't travel to Idaho for basketball and baseball.

West of the Mississippi. Probably your BSC schools (Sans Montana) and Sam Houston and Lamar.

[MplsBison]

They've already given them one waiver that ends in 2013.

Don't think that's correct, feel free to post link. I tried googling WAC waiver 2013, nothing came up.

Here's the quote from Hurd: ""Is it there for 2014? Is it there for 2015? I don't know the answer to that," Hurd said in terms of WAC football. "I wouldn't rule it out. If we can figure out a way to buy a little time and let institutions that are interested in moving to the FBS level to do so sometime during the 2012-13 year, then there's a possibility.".

Obviously it's possible or he wouldn't say it.

[MplsBison]

They're giving them two years to get their act together, but that's drastically different than amending NCAA rules to allow (essentially) FBS football-only zombie conferences where the conference name is simply a label used to enclose schools with FBS ambitions.

Again, you're twisting it to fit your agenda. All you care about is clutching on to any I-AA team currently and preventing them from moving up to I-A. That's literally all you care about and you'll go to any length to make it happen.

Bog off.

[MplsBison]

Based on what facts? Oh, wait, there are none in your little fantasy world.

Humoring silly Mpls for a moment, it would have to be a historic waiver to allow the FBS to drastically change what it has ever meant to be an FBS conference, kind of like giving a waiver to allow the PSAC to compete in Division I in football only because West Chester plays Delaware every year and they need the money. I.e., fantasy land.

Hurd wouldn't say it if he were just making crap up.

Dream on.

[MplsBison]

Yes, but they aren't going to waive current FBS rules to allow them to bring in 6-8 football only schools.

They will need them for all sports, and App and JMU won't travel to Idaho for basketball and baseball.

West of the Mississippi. Probably your BSC schools (Sans Montana) and Sam Houston and Lamar.

Wrong again.

There is no rule preventing the WAC from inviting 6 I-AA schools to join as football only members. Zip. Nada. Zilch.

No rule against it.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

WAC members still appear to not hold out hope. At least this article doeab;r,

http://www.mercurynews.com/sjsu-spartans/ci_21164602/reconfigured-wac-prepares-final-season

[MplsBison]

WAC members still appear to not hold out hope. At least this article doeab;r,

http://www.mercurynews.com/sjsu-spartans/ci_21164602/reconfigured-wac-prepares-final-season

There's no doubt that WAC football will not exist in 2013.

The question is if it can be revived in 2014 or 2015, with the help of 6 or more I-AA move ups.


Idaho and New Mexico st will find a way to survive at I-A for 2013.

[TheRevSFA]

Wrong again.

There is no rule preventing the WAC from inviting 6 I-AA schools to join as football only members. Zip. Nada. Zilch.

No rule against it.

No, there is no rule preventing the WAC from inviting 6 FCS schools to join as football only, HOWEVER, the WAC (read the bylaws jackass) would cease to exist as a FBS conference.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Whoever is hacking Mpls' account, serious rep points!

[MplsBison]

No, there is no rule preventing the WAC from inviting 6 FCS schools to join as football only, HOWEVER, the WAC (read the bylaws jackass) would cease to exist as a FBS conference.

If no waiver or exemption is granted, yes you're correct - they'd "officially' not be an I-A football conference. So what did they lose?

Participation in the new I-A playoff? Nope. No conference has an automatic bid.
Participation in bowl games? Nope. Those are private contracts between conferences and the bowl games.
The ability to provide 7 to 8 (depending on how large it grows) guaranteed conference games to its members, naming all-conference teams, players of the week, etc.? Nope. They'd still do that.

The only significant loss would probably be their fair share of the revenue from the I-A playoff, which I'm sure is all the other 10 conferences care about. They might also lose the ability to officially be able to pull up more I-AA teams to I-A, once their conference status is gone.


But probably not. Because like I said, the other conferences only give a rip about money. They'll grant the WAC a waive or exemption such that they won't get their fair money, but they'll retain conference status in every other respect.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

yes you're correct... they'd.. not be an [FBS] football conference.

+1

[MplsBison]

+1

Still waiting for you to provide the NCAA rule the prohibits the WAC from inviting 6 I-AA schools as football only members, like you claimed you could.

Oh that's right, you lied.

[UAalum72]

If there are six FCS members in the conference (only one of which counts toward bowl eligibility), could the two FBS teams (who have to play each other) possibly think they could get enough FBS wins to be bowl-eligible to the bowl they have a contract with?

[MplsBison]

If there are six FCS members in the conference (only one of which counts toward bowl eligibility), could the two FBS teams (who have to play each other) possibly think they could get enough FBS wins to be bowl-eligible to the bowl they have a contract with?

Obviously, per Hurd's comment, they transition from I-AA to I-A. This is achieved via the WAC invite and then meeting the other NCAA requirements to be I-A (such as providing a minimum of 90% of the 85 scholarship equivalencies).

[LouiseBFree]

What's I-AA?

Sincerely,
Cassius Clay, Ron Artest, Memphis State, Cingular and Humble Oil Co.



Obviously, per Hurd's comment, they transition from I-AA to I-A. This is achieved via the WAC invite and then meeting the other NCAA requirements to be I-A (such as providing a minimum of 90% of the 85 scholarship equivalencies).

[darell1976]

What's I-AA?

Sincerely,
Cassius Clay, Ron Artest, Memphis State, Cingular and Humble Oil Co.

It was something used in the past along with the Gateway Conference, Big 8, and the Southwest Conference. I think he still uses NFL and AFL when talking about pro football.

[MplsBison]

What's I-AA?

Sincerely,
Cassius Clay, Ron Artest, Memphis State, Cingular and Humble Oil Co.

FBS and FCS lost their context when FBS switched to a playoff to determine its champion, which is the same as FCS.

Therefore, those labels are invalid.


Thus I've reverted to the perfectly acceptable I-AA and I-A labels.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

FBS and FCS lost their context when FBS switched to a playoff to determine its champion, which is the same as FCS.

Therefore, those labels are invalid.


Thus I've reverted to the perfectly acceptable I-AA and I-A labels.

I am so glad Mpls finally explained his methodology to all. xrolleyesx Of course, the FBS plus-one is not a true, NCAA, autobid championship. It's a construct devised by the "big four" (with the ACC clinging along for the ride) to shut out all the other conferences from the BCS national championship. Fair access? Autobids? Not in the vocabulary of the plus-one system. There will be plenty of controversy, and no guarantee that the four best teams will be in their plus-one.

[MplsBison]

I am so glad Mpls finally explained his methodology to all. xrolleyesx Of course, the FBS plus-one is not a true, NCAA, autobid championship. It's a construct devised by the "big four" (with the ACC clinging along for the ride) to shut out all the other conferences from the BCS national championship. Fair access? Autobids? Not in the vocabulary of the plus-one system. There will be plenty of controversy, and no guarantee that the four best teams will be in their plus-one.

The NCAA label on the playoffs gives no credibility.

Major college football existed before the NCAA did. Conferences have always owned and operated the major college football postseason and that will always be the case. The NCAA will never run it.


It is a playoff and it doesn't matter if you don't like it. You're a liar to claim otherwise.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It is a playoff and it doesn't matter if you don't like it.

It's a plus-one that is controlled by the "Big Four", which will become very apparent over time.

[MplsBison]

It's a plus-one that is controlled by the "Big Four", which will become very apparent over time.

It's a playoff. Rankings come out prior to bowl games being played, 1 plays 4, 2 plays 3 and then the winners play each other.

Plus one is where all bowl games are played only with contractual conference tie ins (ie, the Rose bowl would be the Big Ten champ v the Pac 12 champ, no matter what the rankings are) and THEN rankings come out and THEN the championship game is 1 v 2.


But continue to lie, as it suits your agenda better. Just as web bloggers do. It's not like you have to depend on your credibility to feed your family.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's a playoff. Rankings come out prior to bowl games being played, 1 plays 4, 2 plays 3 and then the winners play each other.

Plus one is where all bowl games are played only with contractual conference tie ins (ie, the Rose bowl would be the Big Ten champ v the Pac 12 champ, no matter what the rankings are) and THEN rankings come out and THEN the championship game is 1 v 2.


But continue to lie, as it suits your agenda better. Just as web bloggers do. It's not like you have to depend on your credibility to feed your family.

Whatever you say, Cliff.

The "rankings" will be set not by any mathematical means, but by an extremely partial set of judges, motivated almost entirely by money, essentially without NCAA oversight. There are no rules requirements to allow a Boise State in - or even a Virginia Tech. There are no criteria for at-larges. Winning a conference championship is not a guarantee for success. It's a cluster**** waiting to happen. Again, though, this will rapidly become apparent.

[dbackjon]

NCAA still considers them to be BOWLS.

Only Football Champion recognized by the NCAA is the FCS champion.

Once again, you are wrong, MPLSBISON

[MplsBison]

NCAA still considers them to be BOWLS.

Only Football Champion recognized by the NCAA is the FCS champion.

Once again, you are wrong, MPLSBISON

I am correct, you are wrong. The NCAA has nothing to do with it, obviously. And the national championship game isn't a bowl anyway. At least, no more than the SuperBowl is a bowl game.

As I said, the NCAA has never had jack ___ to do with the post season for major college football.


Your comment is nothing more than a pissant's shaking fist from down low. Way down low.

[MplsBison]

Whatever you say, Cliff.

The "rankings" will be set not by any mathematical means, but by an extremely partial set of judges, motivated almost entirely by money, essentially without NCAA oversight. There are no rules requirements to allow a Boise State in - or even a Virginia Tech. There are no criteria for at-larges. Winning a conference championship is not a guarantee for success. It's a cluster**** waiting to happen. Again, though, this will rapidly become apparent.

Ok, so just to clarify: you are agreeing that I was correct.

You just then transitioned to bashing the method of providing the rankings. I have no issue with that, I'll just say that it's utterly better than a formula like the BCS rankings were. A selection committee will change everything, change the discussion. Weight can correctly be given to conference champions and especially those that must win a championship game, while still allowing common sense, the will of the people and better matchups to be a factor. Things a formula could never do.

[andy7171]

This thread turned into something fantastic!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Ok, so just to clarify: you are agreeing that I was correct.

You just then transitioned to bashing the method of providing the rankings. I have no issue with that, I'll just say that it's utterly better than a formula like the BCS rankings were. A selection committee will change everything, change the discussion. Weight can correctly be given to conference champions and especially those that must win a championship game, while still allowing common sense, the will of the people and better matchups to be a factor. Things a formula could never do.

I never agreed with you in any way. It's not a playoff, it's a plus-one, determined by a set of guys in a room where money and horse-trading will determine the participants. The semifinals will be sponsored bowl games, and the plus-one will essentially be an exhibition bowl game as well, not sanctioned by the NCAA.

[UAalum72]

As I said, the NCAA has never had jack ___ to do with the post season for major college football.
Is it not an NCAA rule that a school must have six wins to play in a bowl game?

[superman7515]

What's I-AA?

Sincerely,
Cassius Clay, Ron Artest, Memphis State, Cingular and Humble Oil Co.

I know what you're asking yourself, and the answer is yes, I have a nickname for my penis. It's called The Octagon. But I also named my testes; my left one is James Westfall and the right one is Doctor Kenneth Noisewater.

[ASUMountaineer]

Whatever you say, Cliff.

The "rankings" will be set not by any mathematical means, but by an extremely partial set of judges, motivated almost entirely by money, essentially without NCAA oversight. There are no rules requirements to allow a Boise State in - or even a Virginia Tech. There are no criteria for at-larges. Winning a conference championship is not a guarantee for success. It's a cluster**** waiting to happen. Again, though, this will rapidly become apparent.

At least they don't have to worry about "regionalization."

[MplsBison]

I never agreed with you in any way. It's not a playoff, it's a plus-one, determined by a set of guys in a room where money and horse-trading will determine the participants. The semifinals will be sponsored bowl games, and the plus-one will essentially be an exhibition bowl game as well, not sanctioned by the NCAA.

You're a liar. You know better and try to deceive people anyway.

You know it's not a plus-one, You know the selection committee will be the same thing as the I-AA playoff selection committee and the men's bball selection committee. But you lie anyway.


Luckily no one reads anything you have to say and you won't convince anyone of your lies.

[MplsBison]

Is it not an NCAA rule that a school must have six wins to play in a bowl game?

The NCAA has nothing to do with choosing teams to play in post season games, has nothing to do with operating post season games and receives no money for post season games.

They're not involved.

[AshevilleApp2]

The NCAA has nothing to do with choosing teams to play in post season games, has nothing to do with operating post season games and receives no money for post season games.

They're not involved.

But they do sanction bowls and set requirements for participating in them. So yes, they are involved.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/football/2008/psfootball_handbook.pdf

[MplsBison]

But they do sanction bowls and set requirements for participating in them. So yes, they are involved.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/football/2008/psfootball_handbook.pdf

Ok fine.

So go back to the original context of the discussion. Is the I-A champion any less of a champion because it's not determined by a specifically NCAA tournament? Nope. That was the point.

And I'm still 95% correct. The NCAA doens't get to pick who plays who in the post season, doesn't run any of the games and doesn't get any money from any of the games. To me, that's not having jack ____ to do with it.

[ASUMountaineer]

Ok fine.

So go back to the original context of the discussion. Is the I-A champion any less of a champion because it's not determined by a specifically NCAA tournament? Nope. That was the point.

And I'm still 95% correct. The NCAA doens't get to pick who plays who in the post season, doesn't run any of the games and doesn't get any money from any of the games. To me, that's not having jack ____ to do with it.

So, you're not right?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJohCpifELE

[whitey]

95% of the time, Mpls is right every time.

[MplsBison]

So, you're not right?


I am correct in the original argument. It doesn't matter if the little NCAA logo is on the I-A playoff or not. That's not what makes it a "true" champion.

I took it a little too far beyond that, is all. Irrelevant to the original argument.

[ASUMountaineer]

I am correct in the original argument. It doesn't matter if the little NCAA logo is on the I-A playoff or not. That's not what makes it a "true" champion.

I took it a little too far beyond that, is all. Irrelevant to the original argument.

You don't get "tongue-in-cheek," do you?

[dgtw]

Bad news for the WAC on two fronts.


Boise State is set to join the Big West for most non-football sports, Boise State President Bob Kustra told the Idaho Statesman on Wednesday.

"No doubt as far as I'm concerned — (from) everything I've heard, every e-mail I've read, every conversation I've had," Kustra said.

The only hold-up is a formal vote of the Big West presidents.

Read more here: http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2012/08/15/bmurphy/boise_state_all_set_join_big_west_president_says#s torylink=cpy

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2012/08/15/bmurphy/boise_state_all_set_join_big_west_president_says


University of Evansville athletic director John Stanley confirmed Monday that Missouri Valley Conference coaches and athletic directors support adding burgeoning baseball powerhouse Dallas Baptist University to the league as a baseball-only member.

The Missouri Valley's member presidents will vote on the move in the coming weeks and, if approved, welcome Dallas Baptist as member on July 1, 2013.

"I think what they bring to the table is a great (Ratings Percentage Index), such as their ability to play very solid nonconference RPI teams in the state of Texas on a regular basis," said UE coach Wes Carroll, who along with other Missouri Valley coaches unanimously approved the addition.

Dallas Baptist originally announced a move to the Western Athletic Conference before recent football-driven realignment disbanded much of the league. The Patriots then played last season as independents and went through a full Missouri Valley slate, though they weren't eligible for the conference tournament that awards an automatic NCAA tournament bid

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/aug/13/no-headline---dallasbaptist/

[darell1976]

Bad news for the WAC on two fronts.



http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2012/08/15/bmurphy/boise_state_all_set_join_big_west_president_says



http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/aug/13/no-headline---dallasbaptist/

The WAC will be no more unless the Big Sky saves them, but only a fool would jump up to the FBS just to join the WAC. I am sure UND can rejoin Conference USA in swimming if the WAC is no more in every sport.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Without Dallas Baptist and Boise State, do they still have an autobid in hoops anymore?

[darell1976]

Without Dallas Baptist and Boise State, do they still have an autobid in hoops anymore?

I think its 6 full members or 7 something like that and for the 12-13 year they have 10. But for the 13-14 year they have 4 (Denver, Idaho, New Mexico St, and Seattle).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Athletic_Conference#Current_members

Boise State is in the WAC for gymnastics; Cal St-Bakersfield for baseball, and women's swimming; Sac St for baseball, and women's gymnastics; Dallas Baptist for baseball; UND, NAU, and UNC for women's swimming; SUU for women's gymnastics. The WAC is just a hodge podge of olympic sports. As their AQ in basketball may be gone.

[Sec310]

Maybe the phones are ringing at Utah Valley, Texas Pan Am, and Bakersfield.

The WAC could save their hoops bid by adding those three schools. All three have a baseball team too. Besides Sac St. how many other FULL Big Sky members have baseball? Maybe the WAC could add those schools to save their baseball.

[Sec310]

Without Dallas Baptist and Boise State, do they still have an autobid in hoops anymore?

Dallas Baptist was going to the WAC for baseball only. Their other sports would stay D2.

http://dbupatriots.com/news/2011/9/19/BB_0919114630.aspx?path=baseball

[DFW HOYA]

The only way it would get worse? The WAC could merge with the Great West.

http://www.greatwestconference.org/

[dgtw]

So, you're not right?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJohCpifELE

The funny part about the ad is the batting champs in 1938 hit .349 and .342.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/batting_avg_leagues.shtml

[darell1976]

The only way it would get worse? The WAC could merge with the Great West.

http://www.greatwestconference.org/

You mean whats left of it. It would be bad for basketball Utah Valley is a good team but Chicago State, NJIT and UTPA aren't that powerful enough to raise the ol RPI. They would have to try to get the GWC teams to move to the WAC just to keep an AQ conference because the GWC isn't eligible for an AQ for like 10-20 years or something like that.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You mean whats left of it. It would be bad for basketball Utah Valley is a good team but Chicago State, NJIT and UTPA aren't that powerful enough to raise the ol RPI. They would have to try to get the GWC teams to move to the WAC just to keep an AQ conference because the GWC isn't eligible for an AQ for like 10-20 years or something like that.

NJIT has been consistently bad since joining D-I, though not having a proper conference has something to do with that. It must be said too that there is no Northeastern-based conference that appears to have any interest in having them join, and that's saying something.

[darell1976]

NJIT has been consistently bad since joining D-I, though not having a proper conference has something to do with that. It must be said too that there is no Northeastern-based conference that appears to have any interest in having them join, and that's saying something.

That's why I am so glad UND got into the Big Sky. Going from Grand Forks to Utah to Texas to New Jersey is a hell of a road trip. Thats why travel in the BSC should be a piece a cake for UND.

[ASUMountaineer]

The funny part about the ad is the batting champs in 1938 hit .349 and .342.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/batting_avg_leagues.shtml

Nice.

[SumItUp]

WAC-E is still on the table

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/wac-commissioner-finally-pronounces-football-conference-dead-221535767--ncaaf.html


UPDATE (6:43 p.m. ET): Apparently, the Denver Post jumped the gun here. According to Brian Murphy of the Idaho Statesman, Hurd said he was only talking about the 2013 season and that the push to bring football back in 2014 is still alive.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Would the NCAA simply allow the WAC to "take a year off from FBS" and then simply resume it with a bunch of FCS call-ups? No existing FBS member would join this situation in their right mind, the schools that are interested in joining are doing so are non-football schools who want an autobid, and it's very unclear if FCS schools would want to jeopardize their own basketball chances to join it either. For example, why would James Madison leave the CAA, still a pretty solid mid-major conference with at least a shot at an at-large bid, to join this autobid-only Frankenconference?

Furthermore, any FCS school making the transition to join the WAC will need the "UTSA exception" in order to compete at the FBS level in 2014, since technically it's their transition year.

Basically, there are a lot of hurdles here.

[MplsBison]

Lots of hurdles, no one doubts that.

But it'd be for football only, even if that means the WAC wouldn't be an official conference. It's a ticket into the FBS.