Albany to CAA?

[jmufan]

That is the report coming from the big purple fan forum.

[whitey]

Apparently Newschannel 13 WNYT in Albany reported this last night. They will start in the CAA in 2013. Their report said this was FOOTBALL, no mention of other sports. Meanwhile the SOCON ADs had a meeting yesterday to discuss their plans for when they're raided by the CAA: http://timesfreepress.com/news/2012/jul/21/socon-meetings-produce-candid-talk-no-decision/

Things are starting to fall in place. Should happen quickly.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Hmm...very interesting...what about Stony Brook?

[whitey]

Hmm...very interesting...what about Stony Brook?

Only mentioned UA, but again this was the local Albany news station. Perhaps this was the reason behind their AD's angry tweet a couple weeks back?

[jmufan]

Hmm...very interesting...what about Stony Brook?

Last I heard they were being blocked by Hofstra. Not sure if that was for all sports or just football. Would be dumb to pass on SBU or allow them to be blocked.

[Dane96]

If the report is true...SBU has to be in for at least football. Hofstra would have no true reason to block that.

[R3TRO]

I like this. Save the CAA North.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I like this. Save the CAA North.

Albany is a good fit. With that said, I would have lost a lot of money betting on Stony Brook to get in first.

I can certainly see UNH and Maine being more in favor of the Danes. Long Island is a looong way from northern New England.

[Dane96]

I would think SBU is likely going to be a football member if I had to guess with gun to my head status.

[Seawolf97]

Albany is a good fit. With that said, I would have lost a lot of money betting on Stony Brook to get in first.

I can certainly see UNH and Maine being more in favor of the Danes. Long Island is a looong way from northern New England.

Actually yes and no. Most teams from New England cross the sound via ferry to Port Jefferson which is 5 minutes drive from SBU. Saves a about 90 minutes to 2 hours travel time avoiding NYC and the LIE. Interesting piece of news - SBU and Albany back at it again.

[whitey]

I would think SBU is likely going to be a football member if I had to guess with gun to my head status.

Albany and Stony Brook would bring CAA football up to 10 if so:

Maine
New Hampshire
Albany
Stony Brook
Villanova
Delaware
Towson
James Madison
Richmond
William & Mary

I wonder if you might see a couple of southern teams added on top of this to get back up to 12?

[UAalum72]

Albany and Stony Brook would bring CAA football up to 10 if so:

Maine
New Hampshire
Albany
Stony Brook
Villanova
Delaware
Towson
James Madison
Richmond
William & Mary

I wonder if you might see a couple of southern teams added on top of this to get back up to 12?
Or one southern team if Rhody decided the northern teams made it easier for them to stay.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Maine
New Hampshire
Albany
Stony Brook
Villanova
Delaware
Towson
James Madison
Richmond
William & Mary



xwhistlex

[Dane96]

So...are you suggesting the bold teams are moving....

[aceinthehole]

I wonder if you might see a couple of southern teams added on top of this to get back up to 12?

Or how about adding 2 more Northern teams? :)

CAA Football - South (6)
1. Delaware
2. James Madison
3. Richmond
4. Towson
5. Villanova
6. William & Mary

CAA Football - North (6)
1. Maine
2. New Hampshire
3. Albany
4. Stony Brook
5. Central Connecticut
6. Rhode Island

[Bogus Megapardus]

So...are you suggesting the bold teams are moving....

One never knows, do one?

(We'd love to add Villanova as well, BTW) xrolleyesx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Or how about adding 2 more Northern teams? :)

CAA Football - South (6)
1. Delaware
2. James Madison
3. Richmond
4. Towson
5. Villanova
6. William & Mary

CAA Football - North (6)
1. Maine
2. New Hampshire
3. Albany
4. Stony Brook
5. Central Connecticut
6. Rhode Island

It's an interesting concept, but with one huge flaw: if Albany and/or CCSU and/or SBU go in as football only, only four of the 12 CAA football members would be in the CAA in all sports. To put this in perspective, there would be as many AE teams in the league than CAA teams - and in this scenario, too, it seems like CCSU would be jumping to AE in other sports, meaning there would be five!

In order for this to work, at least two of Albany/CCSU/SBU would have to go into the CAA as all-sports members, and in an ideal world all three would have to - which, IMO, is unworkable for the basketball schools.

This is an intriguing configuration, but IMO one that only works if at least two go into the CAA as all-sports members.

[aceinthehole]

It's an interesting concept, but with one huge flaw: if Albany and/or CCSU and/or SBU go in as football only, only four of the 12 CAA football members would be in the CAA in all sports. To put this in perspective, there would be as many AE teams in the league than CAA teams - and in this scenario, too, it seems like CCSU would be jumping to AE in other sports, meaning there would be five!

In order for this to work, at least two of Albany/CCSU/SBU would have to go into the CAA as all-sports members, and in an ideal world all three would have to - which, IMO, is unworkable for the basketball schools.

This is an intriguing configuration, but IMO one that only works if at least two go into the CAA as all-sports members.

Yes, this assumes CCSU would join the AE for other sports. And yes, the CAA Football membership would be 5-AE, 4-CAA, 2-A10, 1-BE.

This scenario does have some issues, but I think they could be worked out. Since the CAA is a seperate legal entity, it would still be administered and marketed by the CAA. The AE is unable and likely unwilling to take any leadership role - it is just a home for their football programs. I don't think anyone is suggesting that the AE would try (or is capable) to take over the football league.

I just don't know what school the CAA is targeting (and is willing to accept, especially with a $1 million exit fee) that has strong support by the existing CAA membership because they are projected to bring value to both basketball and football.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Every conference has an exit penalty, I would imagine. I know that the exit penalty is $250,000 in the Patriot. I can't find anything indicating what Boston U. is paying to exit from America East, but I'm pretty sure AE has an exit penalty. The $1mm penalty in the CAA certainly is a solid incentive to make sure that institutions are serious about their CAA membership. I don't think that's necessarily excessive, given the CAA's stature and success.

Given the right situation, I could foresee the folks in Center Valley agreeing to underwrite an exit penalty for a team that the Patriot really wants (they know who they are). This is just a guess, though. The Patriot is fairly transparent about such things; if it were to agree to underwrite an exit penalty for someone I'd imagine that they'd make it public.

Now the question is, will the CAA underwrite exit penalties to attract teams that it really wants? I don't see why not.

[whitey]

Yes, this assumes CCSU would join the AE for other sports. And yes, the CAA Football membership would be 5-AE, 4-CAA, 2-A10, 1-BE.

This scenario does have some issues, but I think they could be worked out. Since the CAA is a seperate legal entity, it would still be administered and marketed by the CAA. The AE is unable and likely unwilling to take any leadership role - it is just a home for their football programs. I don't think anyone is suggesting that the AE would try (or is capable) to take over the football league.

I just don't know what school the CAA is targeting (and is willing to accept, especially with a $1 million exit fee) that has strong support by the existing CAA membership because they are projected to bring value to both basketball and football.

Very small chance something like this happens. It's more likely the CAA adds a couple of southern based schools that play football for all sports.

[aceinthehole]

Very small chance something like this happens. It's more likely the CAA adds a couple of southern based schools that play football for all sports.

I agree. As a CCSU fan, this is more wishful thinking. But I do contend it is a possibility, especially if the CAA can't get an acceptable and willing Southern school for all sports that also plays football. Bringing in CAA Football teams would be less risk to the CAA membership as whole. I think the CAA may have a problem reaching consensus on any full sports memebrs (outside of Charleston) that also play football.

The SoCon exit fee is $600k for less than 2 years. The AE, NEC, and I assume the Big South have a $250k exit fee. My point is a $1million exit fee is excessive for any school that might consider the CAA as a holding spot until a FBS opportunities happens. That why I think App. State to the CAA is not very likely. Costal Carolina or Elon would not care about the CAA exit fee because they aren't likely to move beyond this if accepted.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Just spitballin' here:

CAA Football - South (6)
1. Delaware
2. James Madison
3. Appalachian State
4. Towson
5. Villanova
6. Elon

CAA Football - North (6)
1. Maine
2. New Hampshire
3. Albany
4. Stony Brook
5. Central Connecticut
6. Rhode Island

Of course, at this point, why wouldn't the AE just take over the North, which literally would be 5 AE teams and Rhody, and the CAA the South, which would be 5 CAA teams and Villanova (assuming App and Elon are all-sports members)?

It seems too complicated to actually happen.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

It's an interesting concept, but with one huge flaw: if Albany and/or CCSU and/or SBU go in as football only, only four of the 12 CAA football members would be in the CAA in all sports. To put this in perspective, there would be as many AE teams in the league than CAA teams - and in this scenario, too, it seems like CCSU would be jumping to AE in other sports, meaning there would be five!

In order for this to work, at least two of Albany/CCSU/SBU would have to go into the CAA as all-sports members, and in an ideal world all three would have to - which, IMO, is unworkable for the basketball schools.

This is an intriguing configuration, but IMO one that only works if at least two go into the CAA as all-sports members.

Atlantic 10 Football had the same issue - the full A10 schools in the league were outnumbered by affiliates from the A-East and CAA. Going back even further the Yankee Conference was football only. There are a lot of Northeast schools that have a history of playing football against each other but don't have the same amount of history for other sports, it's just the way it is and the way it's been.

That being said, I'd love to see UNH and Maine come in as full CAA members, and have Albany and SBU come in as full members as well. If Hofstra has a problem with it I'd be happy to see Hofstra get kicked out of the conference in exchange for SBU.

[Bogus Megapardus]

General question -In pro baseball, football, hockey, etc, one team may not approach a player or coach on another team while that player or coach in under contract. In the NCAA, there would be a massive penalty if one school directly contacted a student-athlete at another school and tried to entice the student-athlete to transfer. If a team were to contact an under-contract coach at another team, for example, the team making the contact would be hit with a civil legal charge of contract interference.

A pro coach or player, or a college coach, can always reach out to a new employer to test the waters and can leave his/her employment at any time. That's because the U.S. Constitution forbids involuntary servitude. But penalty provisions in the player and coaching contracts would make a change to another team economically prohibitive, and players' union agreements require players to forgo virtually any involuntary servitude claim if a player tries switch teams (a player or coach can always quit at any time and go work at a car wash, though).

So - what happens when one NCAA sports conference contacts a team in another conference and tries to get that team to leave its existing conference? I know that some conference affiliations are "lifetime" and some are for a term of years. Obviously a team at the end of its contract term with a conference can leave and go elsewhere without penalty. But what about a "permanent" member?" Can one conference contact a "permanent member" of another conference without subjecting itself to a charge of contract interference? Are there specific NCAA rules about this?

Legal/NCAA experts out there, anyone know about this? Do the penalty fee provisions in conference charters/agreements constitute "liquidated damages" for such an act? And if one NCAA conference lures a team from another conference, should the conference doing the "luring" (as opposed to the team that is leaving) be the one responsible for the liquidated damages?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Just spitballin' here:

CAA Football - South (6)
1. Delaware
2. James Madison
3. Appalachian State
4. Towson
5. Villanova
6. Elon

CAA Football - North (6)
1. Maine
2. New Hampshire
3. Albany
4. Stony Brook
5. Central Connecticut
6. Rhode Island

Of course, at this point, why wouldn't the AE just take over the North, which literally would be 5 AE teams and Rhody, and the CAA the South, which would be 5 CAA teams and Villanova (assuming App and Elon are all-sports members)?

It seems too complicated to actually happen.

If Elon leaves the SoCon, I want dibs on Furman and Wofford.

[whitey]

W&M and Richmond aren't going anywhere.

[whitey]

Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein

Sources say CAA Commissioner Tom Yeager was on Stony Brook's campus this week. Could it be a sign?

Yeager visited Stony Brook this past week....

[aceinthehole]

The CAA wanted to sponsor and administer football. They actively sought it and took it over from the A-10. They had a plan and executed it.

The same can not be said of the AE and I don't think anything has changed. America East has shown no desire or ability to sponsor football. I contend that they don't even want to sponsor the sport regardless of how many members they have that play football. I think the AE thinks it is a hassle and they would be more than willing to have the CAA continue to run football.

The internal dynamics of the AE are strange. For many years they could have sponsored hockey as well. But they never had the internal commitment to take over Hockey East despite that they were the majority of memebrs.

Again, I'm not suggesting that this scenario is likely, but having all 6 New England/New York public FCS teams into the CAA would make some sense.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

And while we're on the subject of tweets:

MT @MarkSingelais: AD McElroy: "We have not been offered any membership opportunity with the CAA." Re: WNYT report on UA fball to CAA in '13

[Sader87]

If Villanova remains in the FCS, i think their ultimate destination is the Patriot League. Institutionally they are pretty much an outlier in the CAA as it exists now.

[Bogus Megapardus]

And while we're on the subject of tweets:

MT @MarkSingelais: AD McElroy: "We have not been offered any membership opportunity with the CAA." Re: WNYT report on UA fball to CAA in '13

@MarkSingelais: That, of course, doesn't rule out that the sides are talking and a formal invitation could be coming from the CAA.

@MarkSingelais: UAlbany's McElroy: "Conference affiliation is a shifting landscape that requires consultation and collaboration."

[Bogus Megapardus]

If Villanova remains in the FCS, i think their ultimate destination is the Patriot League. Institutionally they are pretty much an outlier in the CAA as it exists now.

By taking in Boston U. in, the Patriot is announcing in effect, "we're not limited to our traditional core of smaller academic liberal arts/engineering institutions. We gladly welcome a major national research university if it is a good fit. We desire and expect all of our members, large and small, to play up to our increasing competitive standards. We expect that other larger graduate and research universities will recognize the Patriot's newly-evolved approach in considering membership in the future."

[DFW HOYA]

If Villanova remains in the FCS, i think their ultimate destination is the Patriot League. Institutionally they are pretty much an outlier in the CAA as it exists now.

The PL is not a long-term solution for programs like Villanova. The PL leadership is more than happy being the liberal arts based core like the old MAC, with a few outliers in the big cities as long as they don't upset the apple cart.

[MplsBison]

The CAA wanted to sponsor and administer football. They actively sought it and took it over from the A-10. They had a plan and executed it.

The same can not be said of the AE and I don't think anything has changed. America East has shown no desire or ability to sponsor football. I contend that they don't even want to sponsor the sport regardless of how many members they have that play football. I think the AE thinks it is a hassle and they would be more than willing to have the CAA continue to run football.

The internal dynamics of the AE are strange. For many years they could have sponsored hockey as well. But they never had the internal commitment to take over Hockey East despite that they were the majority of memebrs.

Again, I'm not suggesting that this scenario is likely, but having all 6 New England/New York public FCS teams into the CAA would make some sense.

Try again.

The CAA was about to die as an athletic conference. They were blackmailed by Delaware into taking over the Yankee conference administration duties from the A10, who didn't want it anymore.

Delaware said "look, give us the illusion that all our teams play for one entity and we'll save your conference."

So the CAA did and so Delaware left the American East high and dry and apparently also convinced Towson, Hofstra and Drexel to leave out at the same time.


So it makes me giddy that American East members could end up being the majority of the members in the CAA administered Yankee football conference.

Now I don't know if the American East actually has the ability or the will to one day take over the admin duties of the Yankee football conference from the CAA, but that would be the final cherry on the top of shoving it up Delaware's a___ for the blackmail that they committed in the first place.

Hard lesson for the Hens to learn from it: stay where you are and make it a better place!

NDSU should do well to learn from that. Put down their dreams of the MVC and make the Summit the best it can be! Perhaps one day the MVFC will be the Summit FC!

[MplsBison]

If Villanova remains in the FCS, i think their ultimate destination is the Patriot League. Institutionally they are pretty much an outlier in the CAA as it exists now.

Everything works except the AI.

Nova will receive an exemption from the AI for football or they won't join the Patriot League. Simple fact.

[MplsBison]

By taking in Boston U. in, the Patriot is announcing in effect, "we're not limited to our traditional core of smaller academic liberal arts/engineering institutions. We gladly welcome a major national research university if it is a good fit. We desire and expect all of our members, large and small, to play up to our increasing competitive standards. We expect that other larger graduate and research universities will recognize the Patriot's newly-evolved approach in considering membership in the future."

Small, mostly unrelated tangent to your post (which is a good post and a good point):

Of Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Holy Cross and Colgate .... which of these offer PhD's in Engineering?

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Small, mostly unrelated tangent to your post (which is a good post and a good point):

Of Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Holy Cross and Colgate .... which of these offer PhD's in Engineering?

Bucknell offers up to the Masters level in several engineering fields. Lehigh offers PhDs in a number of engineering and hard science fields.

[MplsBison]

Bucknell offers up to the Masters level in several engineering fields. Lehigh offers PhDs in a number of engineering and hard science fields.

Ok, so Lehigh is the only real engineering school in the Patriot (unless BU has PhD level engineering now).

[Bogus Megapardus]

The PL is not a long-term solution for programs like Villanova. The PL leadership is more than happy being the liberal arts based core like the old MAC, with a few outliers in the big cities as long as they don't upset the apple cart.

The core is gravitating to private academic institutions with traditional Division I (previously Major University Division) competition and success. It includes major city locations (Boston U., Fordham, Georgetown) the iconic service academies (Army, Navy) classic, name brand sports powerhouses from yesteryear (Holy Cross, Colgate) and the overachiever/traditional Ivy foe types (Bucknell, Lafayette, Lehigh).

I don't see anything especially mystifying or incongruent about the makeup of the present membership. Full scholarship, competitive, mutli-bid Patriot football would be a reasonable, acceptable alternative to the CAA if conference-change circumstances lead to the necessity for a change for the Wildcats. PL football membership would in no way diminish Villanova's status in the Big East in its other sports.

[MplsBison]

The core is gravitating to private academic institutions with traditional Division I (previously Major University Division) competition and success. It includes major city locations (Boston U., Fordham, Georgetown) the iconic service academies (Army, Navy) classic, name brand sports powerhouses from yesteryear (Holy Cross, Colgate) and the overachiever/traditional Ivy foe types (Bucknell, Lafayette, Lehigh).

I don't see anything especially mystifying or incongruent about the makeup of the present membership. Full scholarship, competitive, mutli-bid Patriot football would be a reasonable, acceptable alternative to the CAA if conference-change circumstances lead to the necessity for a change for the Wildcats. PL football membership would in no way diminish Villanova's status in the Big East in its other sports.

Once again - ONLY if the AI is no longer the major stumbling block (which it absolutely is).

[Bogus Megapardus]

Small, mostly unrelated tangent to your post (which is a good post and a good point):

Of Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Holy Cross and Colgate .... which of these offer PhD's in Engineering?

Only Lehigh has a PhD engineering program. Because of how the programs historically have been set up, and given the rigors of the curriculum, engineering graduates of Lehigh, Lafayette and Bucknell do not require graduate engineering degrees. The same is true of Swarthmore, RPI and a few other engineering schools - the undergraduate curriculum includes and often exceeds the master's curriculum at many other institutions. That's what makes them attractive and valuable, and why it makes a difference where you went to school.

Lafayette in particular has no graduate programs whatsoever, engineering or otherwise. That's what we have Penn and Columbia for.

A majority of Army and Navy graduates leave with engineering degrees, and they often go on to work for major defense contractors after their service. Neither has a graduate program for engineering.

EDIT: Newcomer Boston University certainly has a robust engineering school. I suspect that one can get an engineering PhD there as well.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Hard lesson for the Hens to learn from it: stay where you are and make it a better place!

Delaware today would be in the Patriot League had it taken that advice thirty years ago.

[SBUFAN33]

I can seeing SB a d UA becoming fulltime members. Looking forward to the SB UA football rivalry.:-)))

[MplsBison]

Only Lehigh has a PhD engineering program. Because of how the programs historically have been set up, and given the rigors of the curriculum, engineering graduates of Lehigh, Lafayette and Bucknell do not require graduate engineering degrees. The same is true of Swarthmore, RPI and a few other engineering schools - the undergraduate curriculum includes and often exceeds the master's curriculum at many other institutions. That's what makes them attractive and valuable, and why it makes a difference where you went to school.

Lafayette in particular has no graduate programs whatsoever, engineering or otherwise. That's what we have Penn and Columbia for.

A majority of Army and Navy graduates leave with engineering degrees, and they often go on to work for major defense contractors after their service. Neither has a graduate program for engineering.

EDIT: Newcomer Boston University certainly has a robust engineering school. I suspect that one can get an engineering PhD there as well.

PhD is research. If you don't have one, you aren't doing research in engineering. End

Doesn't matter how good your undergrad BSEE is. You won't be published.

[Sader87]

Wait a minute weren't we talking about PL expansion on this thread???.....oh yea, best of luck Albany.

[MplsBison]

Delaware today would be in the Patriot League had it taken that advice thirty years ago.

Well, I don't know about that. But the AE could have a very attractive, competitive football conference in the NE with Maine, NH, Towson, Delaware and now Albany and Stony Brook at full scholarship.

But it was more important to Delaware to give the illusion of being a member of a conference that sponsors both basketball and football than anything else.

They still aren't, of course. The CAA football conference is the same to the CAA as the MVFC is to the MVC.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Try again.

The CAA was about to die as an athletic conference. They were blackmailed by Delaware into taking over the Yankee conference administration duties from the A10, who didn't want it anymore.

Delaware said "look, give us the illusion that all our teams play for one entity and we'll save your conference."

So the CAA did and so Delaware left the American East high and dry and apparently also convinced Towson, Hofstra and Drexel to leave out at the same time.


So it makes me giddy that American East members could end up being the majority of the members in the CAA administered Yankee football conference.

Now I don't know if the American East actually has the ability or the will to one day take over the admin duties of the Yankee football conference from the CAA, but that would be the final cherry on the top of shoving it up Delaware's a___ for the blackmail that they committed in the first place.

Hard lesson for the Hens to learn from it: stay where you are and make it a better place!

NDSU should do well to learn from that. Put down their dreams of the MVC and make the Summit the best it can be! Perhaps one day the MVFC will be the Summit FC!

I don't know where you are getting this idea that Delaware somehow masterminded a plan to destroy the A10 or blackmailed anyone into doing anything. Delaware wanted all sports under one roof, true. A10 football was in the same place that the CAA could be - there were more America East members playing A-10 football than there were full A-10 members playing football. The America East conference has never made any move to try to sponsor football, and it's been given many opportunities to do it. In fact, the America East has not made proactive moves to do just about anything that could help raise its stature or plan for the future such as sponsoring football or ice hockey or expanding to include new members in anticipation of conference-musical-chairsapalooza '12.

Let's just convince Maine and UNH to become full CAA members, take in Albany and SBU as full members, and let the America East dissolve.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Doesn't matter how good your undergrad BSEE is. You won't be published.

Not true. Lafayette (and other PL undergraduate) engineers publish regularly. The point of a PhD program is to research and prepare a single, publishable manuscript (believe me, I know). All PL engineering candidates are required to undertake ridiculously challenging research. A majority of PL undergraduate engineering candidates will have prepared and produced publishable work by the time they graduate. It's not just the fact that you've learned how to prepare and submit a thesis for publication. It's all about the quality, rigor and relevance of the work that stands behind it.


EDIT - I should have included MIT earlier. MIT undergraduates don't need a master's degree from some other research institution. MIT undergrads perform serious research and they publish. If they pursue a graduate degree, often it is in business or some other field.

[Brian_Ewart]

If Villanova remains in the FCS, i think their ultimate destination is the Patriot League. Institutionally they are pretty much an outlier in the CAA as it exists now.

Institutionally Vanderbilt is pretty much an outlier in the SEC as it exists now. Do you think they will leave to join the ACC? How about Vandy to the Ivy League?

What about Northwestern leaving the Big Ten because they seem like outliers too...

[Brian_Ewart]

Try again.

The CAA was about to die as an athletic conference. They were blackmailed by Delaware into taking over the Yankee conference administration duties from the A10, who didn't want it anymore.

Delaware said "look, give us the illusion that all our teams play for one entity and we'll save your conference."

Not even close to the definition of blackmail.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Institutionally Vanderbilt is pretty much an outlier in the SEC as it exists now. Do you think they will leave to join the ACC? How about Vandy to the Ivy League?

What about Northwestern leaving the Big Ten because they seem like outliers too...


Good point. Throw in Wake Forest in the ACC as well.

[danefan]

I can seeing SB a d UA becoming fulltime members. Looking forward to the SB UA football rivalry.:-)))

Amen. Both schools need this rivalry.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Is CAA football the FCS brand equivalent of the Big Ten, SEC or ACC? My answer is yes, and no, of course not. Nova (and Georgetown) will do whatever they please with their fb programs-- fb is not that which butters their bread. The CAA has never been anywhere 'near-death'' particularly in fb. I have never seen any reason for anything other than deliberate cool-headed moves for the football conference with the most tourney bids in recent years. Apparently there is a line at the door-- to come in.

Congrats to Coach Ford , if Channel 13 is to be believed. Kudos to anyone building a DI fb program in the Northeast

[MplsBison]

I don't know where you are getting this idea that Delaware somehow masterminded a plan to destroy the A10 or blackmailed anyone into doing anything. Delaware wanted all sports under one roof, true. A10 football was in the same place that the CAA could be - there were more America East members playing A-10 football than there were full A-10 members playing football. The America East conference has never made any move to try to sponsor football, and it's been given many opportunities to do it. In fact, the America East has not made proactive moves to do just about anything that could help raise its stature or plan for the future such as sponsoring football or ice hockey or expanding to include new members in anticipation of conference-musical-chairsapalooza '12.

Let's just convince Maine and UNH to become full CAA members, take in Albany and SBU as full members, and let the America East dissolve.

That would suit Delaware's desires only. The more it can make people think that it belongs to a solid, genuine "all-sports" conference, the better.

But the fact of the matter is that the CAA is looking for basketball members. It has that duty, in order to fulfill it's commitment to Versus for the basketball TV contract that it just earned on the back of VCU's performances.

That's why Davidson and CoC are being brought in to the CAA.

In the CAAFC, the separate entity, Albany and perhaps SBU will be brought in and they'll continue to be members of the American East.



I just can't wait for the day that Delaware will have to show itself as members of the CAA (for basketball) and the American East for football. Makes me giddy, as I said.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda stayed in the AE from the get go.

The AE will have 4 members in the CAAFC and in the best position yet to be the majority of the conference.

[MplsBison]

Not true. Lafayette (and other PL undergraduate) engineers publish regularly. The point of a PhD program is to research and prepare a single, publishable manuscript (believe me, I know). All PL engineering candidates are required to undertake ridiculously challenging research. A majority of PL undergraduate engineering candidates will have prepared and produced publishable work by the time they graduate. It's not just the fact that you've learned how to prepare and submit a thesis for publication. It's all about the quality, rigor and relevance of the work that stands behind it.


EDIT - I should have included MIT earlier. MIT undergraduates don't need a master's degree from some other research institution. MIT undergrads perform serious research and they publish. If they pursue a graduate degree, often it is in business or some other field.

No, no, no.

You keep saying "they publish", as if it were an act of the student. Being published means an academic paper that you write as a researcher who has earned a PhD (usually in collaboration with other such researchers) is selected for inclusion of an academic publication (journal, etc.).

I guarantee you that no undergraduates (Patriot League or otherwise) are being published. Not when they're just learning about Ohm's law or the laws of thermodynamics.


Sure, I have no doubt that what you say is correct in that PL undergrads are forced to do a good deal more writing than most undergrad engineering students. But that's not the same thing as being published.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I can't fathom a situation where Delaware is not a highly valued member of any conference with which it might choose to affiliate. Delaware has its sights set exactly at the proper level given the size, location and stature of the university. It isn't shooting for FBS stars and it isn't seeking the relative safety and security of the PL or the AE.

Neither the advent of CAA prowess nor the potential disintegration (if it could conceivably come to that) is the fault or responsibility of the University of Delaware. This is not an institution that needs to "blackmail" anyone. I give my nod to Delaware for "doing it exactly right," as it always has. No question about it.

[UNH Fanboi]

These patriot league hijacks are getting pretty annoying.

[Bogus Megapardus]

No, no, no.

You keep saying "they publish", as if it were an act of the student. Being published means an academic paper that you write as a researcher who has earned a PhD (usually in collaboration with other such researchers) is selected for inclusion of an academic publication (journal, etc.).

I guarantee you that no undergraduates (Patriot League or otherwise) are being published. Not when they're just learning about Ohm's law or the laws of thermodynamics.


Sure, I have no doubt that what you say is correct in that PL undergrads are forced to do a good deal more writing than most undergrad engineering students. But that's not the same thing as being published.

I know absolutely, from first-hand experience, what it means "to publish." Without elaborating, you'll just have to trust me on that one.

That noted, I assure you that PL undergrads do "publish." Oftentimes more relevantly so than than those enrolled as graduates elsewhere.

And for many of us, Ohm's Law was mastered by the time we were in the eighth grade (I had it down in the sixth). Knowledge of the essential principles of thermodynamics was evaluated in our AP Physics examinations, for which were were awarded a score of "5" - just to get in.

Your assumptions remain "bogus," MplsBison.

[Bogus Megapardus]

These patriot league hijacks are getting pretty annoying.

Guilty. But blame MplsBison too.

[danefan]

:D

[slycat]

This would be great for Albany and CAA. Good fit. I could see Albany getting up to CAA caliber quality quickly.

[RichH2]

These patriot league hijacks are getting pretty annoying.

Us?Gee, isn't every topic in northeast tied to PL. Mpls does drive us nuts and therefore off onto tangents. Other than location, dont see how this topic has much to do withxcoffeex You PL.

[RichH2]

These patriot league hijacks are getting pretty annoying.

Us?Gee, isn't every topic in northeast tied to PL. xcoolxMpls does drive us nuts and therefore off onto tangents. Other than location, dont see how this topic has much to do withxcoffeex You PL.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Us?Gee, isn't every topic in northeast tied to PL. xcoolxMpls does drive us nuts and therefore off onto tangents. Other than location, dont see how this topic has much to do withxcoffeex You PL.

If the PL is brought up in relation to northeastern football (which it usually is), we of the blabbermouth PL clique tend to pile in with verbosity and vigor. Word to the wise - NEVER mention the PL (or anything tangentially related to the PL) in your threads.

That's the only way you'll be safe here. xlolx

And yes - Albany should leap at any CAA opportunity, even if it is for football only. But several of the Danes' other sports are very good, too; especially field hockey and track. Lacrosse would have to kick it up a notch, but lax could compete as well in a few seasons. It's probably basketball that would prevent Albany from becoming a full CAA member.

[jmufan]

There was a tweet by UAs assistant athletic director stating that they are headed to the CAA.
http://carolinasportsthoughts.blogspot.com/2012/07/albany-football-moving-to-caa-in-13.html?m=1

[Bogus Megapardus]

There was a tweet by UAs assistant athletic director stating that they ate headed to the CAA.

http://carolinasportsthoughts.blogspot.com/2012/07/albany-football-moving-to-caa-in-13.html?m=1

Official denials notwithstanding, it would appear that something's afoot. Good luck to the Danes!

[BlueHenSinfonian]

There was a tweet by UAs assistant athletic director stating that they ate headed to the CAA.
http://carolinasportsthoughts.blogspot.com/2012/07/albany-football-moving-to-caa-in-13.html?m=1

While it seems that the level of chatter about this indicates it is going to happen, I have a hard time trusting any source that says something like this:



The University of Albany has unofficially announced that they are moving to the CAA for football in 2013. Albany is in the America East conference for football.

[jmufan]

The tweet is what's interesting. The tweet is from Kevin Galuski Albany's assistant athletic director.

[Tribe4SF]

The tweet referenced in the carolinasportsthoughts blog is from the UA Equipment Manager, not an Asst. AD. Where's the tweet from kevin Galuski?

[CRAZY_DANE]

Below is his Tweet. I assume he's gone rogue since his AD denied it just a few hours earlier. That being said, Albany has been hungry for this jump. We're all excited so it's hard to stay quiet (some more than others)

Kevin Galuski
@UAEQUIPMENT
Ualbany Football moving to the CAA for football For the 2013 season. Big time football for the city of Albany
3:39pm - 21 Jul 12 from Niskayuna, NY

[UAalum72]

The tweet referenced in the carolinasportsthoughts blog is from the UA Equipment Manager, not an Asst. AD. Where's the tweet from kevin Galuski?Kevin Galuski is the Assistant Athletics Director for Equipment & Operations

[jmufan]

Hope SBU isn't acting stupid or irrational. " Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein 21m Sources say CAA wants Stony Brook for full membership and Albany just for football but Stony Brook will decline offer. Very happy in AEC."

[aceinthehole]

Hope SBU isn't acting stupid or irrational. " Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein 21m Sources say CAA wants Stony Brook for full membership and Albany just for football but Stony Brook will decline offer. Very happy in AEC."

Why would that be stupid or irrational for SBU?

If SBU has long-term desire to join a FBS conference (as many rumors suggest), why would they join the CAA and commit to a $1million exit fee? They could just as easily play in the AE/CAA Football for a decade, build a strong program in both hoops and football, establish themselves as a legitmate market force in the NY metro area, and be a viable candidate for a C-USA type offer like ODU.

IMO - the $1million exit fee makes it much harder for the CAA to attract programs that may have other long-term aspirations, such as App. State, Liberty, GA Southern, SBU, etc.

[Seawolf97]

Why would that be stupid or irrational for SBU?

If SBU has long-term desire to join a FBS conference (as many rumors suggest), why would they join the CAA and commit to a $1million exit fee? They could just as easily play in the AE/CAA Football for a decade, build a strong program in both hoops and football, establish themselves as a legitmate market force in the NY metro area, and be a viable candidate for a C-USA type offer like ODU.

IMO - the $1million exit fee makes it much harder for the CAA to attract programs that may have other long-term aspirations, such as App. State, Liberty, GA Southern, SBU, etc.
I just posted those sentiments on SBU's board. The time line from what I understand to move to an FBS conference is 5-6 years and is well into the planning stages-ie- additional parking,infrastructure etc. for an expanded football stadium. So if the CAA says ok to football only and we remain in the AEC we will have the best of both worlds. I can also safely say we are not headed to the MAC and much of the funding has been secured for such a move. So why spend 1 million down the road to leave say by 2017 or 2018? Another SBU high risk decision but a good one IMO.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Hope SBU isn't acting stupid or irrational. " Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein 21m Sources say CAA wants Stony Brook for full membership and Albany just for football but Stony Brook will decline offer. Very happy in AEC."


I just posted those sentiments on SBU's board. The time line from what I understand to move to an FBS conference is 5-6 years and is well into the planning stages-ie- additional parking,infrastructure etc. for an expanded football stadium. So if the CAA says ok to football only and we remain in the AEC we will have the best of both worlds. I can also safely say we are not headed to the MAC and much of the funding has been secured for such a move. So why spend 1 million down the road to leave say by 2017 or 2018? Another SBU high risk decision but a good one IMO.

An alternative explanation to this is that the AE non-FB members are finally relenting and deciding that AE football has to happen for the long-term health of the league, and thus will begin competition with a six, seven, or eight team conference, with SBU as its flagship. With this latest tweet, I think the odds of this happening just went up, no matter what the sordid history of the AE and football might suggest.

But something bothers me about this. Why would the CAA offer football-only to Albany and all-sports to SBU? That makes zero sense. I could see all-sports for Albany and football-only for SBU - mostly in order to placate Hofstra - but to think that the CAA would jeopardize the existence of the AE by nabbing SBU, thus pissing off Stuart the football-killer, and then going cap in hand to the AE for Albany for their 40-scholarship football program doesn't make much sense to me. Why not just get both and really force the hand of AE?

From the AE's perspective, think about this. They just lost BU, who was an opponent to football. Without football, they are in jeopardy of being raided by the CAA. But with 63 scholarship football, now CCSU seems like an ideal fit, and other NEC schools that want 63 football would give the AE a long, hard look - especially with Maine,New Hampshire, and Rhode Island, three original Yankee Conference teams and two with recent FCS playoff history. (Not to mention Albany and SBU made the playoffs last year, too.)

With football, the AE seems like a logical destination for a variety of schools. Without it, NJIT all of a sudden seems like an option.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Only Lehigh has a PhD engineering program. Because of how the programs historically have been set up, and given the rigors of the curriculum, engineering graduates of Lehigh, Lafayette and Bucknell do not require graduate engineering degrees. The same is true of Swarthmore, RPI and a few other engineering schools - the undergraduate curriculum includes and often exceeds the master's curriculum at many other institutions. That's what makes them attractive and valuable, and why it makes a difference where you went to school.

Lafayette in particular has no graduate programs whatsoever, engineering or otherwise. That's what we have Penn and Columbia for.

A majority of Army and Navy graduates leave with engineering degrees, and they often go on to work for major defense contractors after their service. Neither has a graduate program for engineering.

EDIT: Newcomer Boston University certainly has a robust engineering school. I suspect that one can get an engineering PhD there as well.

I have a hard time believing that. Georgia Tech is ranked above the entire PL in engineering, and even there you can't say you essentially have graduate level training once you complete undergrad. And even though many undergrads are involved in research, they are almost never lead authors.

It's not unusual for undergrads to be in research - most of the time they are just taking measurements, cleaning test tubes, calibrating strain gauges, and other fairly menial things.

[CRAZY_DANE]

Does the $1M exit fee apply to both the CAA and CAAF? $1M makes sense for all sports but sounds a bit exessive for just one sport. Clarification please.

[CRAZY_DANE]

A few questions about the SBU FBS aspirations.

1) What conference would SBU be targeting? SBU would need a FBS spot so where woud that be?

2) What is the max capacity of the SBU stadium? The new Albany stadium max seating is 24,000 (complete build out) but that is somewhat low for FBS. Isn't SBU in the same situation? Can SBU's stadium exceed 30,000+? If not would the plan be to level the existing stadium and build a new one?

3) Doesn't SBU have the same contingent of anti-athletic critics that Albany has to deal with? New York is quite liberal and college athletics is often criticized. How does SBU plan to overcome the expected criticism to be leveled from SBU's left? e.g. stadium money should be redirected to starving professors or SBU should direct the money to offering more unpopular dead languages.

[MplsBison]

I know absolutely, from first-hand experience, what it means "to publish." Without elaborating, you'll just have to trust me on that one.

That noted, I assure you that PL undergrads do "publish." Oftentimes more relevantly so than than those enrolled as graduates elsewhere.

And for many of us, Ohm's Law was mastered by the time we were in the eighth grade (I had it down in the sixth). Knowledge of the essential principles of thermodynamics was evaluated in our AP Physics examinations, for which were were awarded a score of "5" - just to get in.

Your assumptions remain "bogus," MplsBison.

OK, let's be very clear here. I'm talking strictly engineering. I don't think you have a degree in engineering.

Now perhaps it's a known fact that undergrads are published in legit academic journals in the field of your degree. I wouldn't argue otherwise.


But for engineering, doesn't matter if you went to MIT or anywhere in the world. Legitimate academic journals are not publishing papers written by undergrads. You have nothing to say that's interesting if you're in the process of earning an undergraduate degree in engineering.

Please mind you that I'm not talking about age. Certainly there are prodigy students who are earning graduate degrees in the their teens and certainly would be published, if they write something interesting.


Show me different. And it has to be a legit journal. We're not talking about the "Bi-annual undergraduate paper review of Easton, PA".

[MplsBison]

I have a hard time believing that. Georgia Tech is ranked above the entire PL in engineering, and even there you can't say you essentially have graduate level training once you complete undergrad. And even though many undergrads are involved in research, they are almost never lead authors.

It's not unusual for undergrads to be in research - most of the time they are just taking measurements, cleaning test tubes, calibrating strain gauges, and other fairly menial things.

That is of course correct. I don't think he knows what he's talking about.

Probably he has a liberal arts degree and perhaps in such fields undergrads are published in the respected, large academic journals. It's still hard for me to fathom that any person (regardless of age) has something that interesting to say about their field if they're only yet earning their undergrad.

Won't believe it until I see it.

[MplsBison]

I just posted those sentiments on SBU's board. The time line from what I understand to move to an FBS conference is 5-6 years and is well into the planning stages-ie- additional parking,infrastructure etc. for an expanded football stadium. So if the CAA says ok to football only and we remain in the AEC we will have the best of both worlds. I can also safely say we are not headed to the MAC and much of the funding has been secured for such a move. So why spend 1 million down the road to leave say by 2017 or 2018? Another SBU high risk decision but a good one IMO.

Absolutely it would be the correct move.

The CAA is a basketball league that is shifting it's focus to Virginia and North Carolina. That is being driven by its TV contract with Versus and they're desperately trying to fill out a schedule that will sell like as if VCU was still in the league.

The football conference can become a half-half of AE schools in the north and CAA schools in the south. Everyone wins. Except Delaware. But that's a good thing.

[Redwyn]

A few questions about the SBU FBS aspirations.

1) What conference would SBU be targeting? SBU would need a FBS spot so where woud that be?

2) What is the max capacity of the SBU stadium? The new Albany stadium max seating is 24,000 (complete build out) but that is somewhat low for FBS. Isn't SBU in the same situation? Can SBU's stadium exceed 30,000+? If not would the plan be to level the existing stadium and build a new one?

3) Doesn't SBU have the same contingent of anti-athletic critics that Albany has to deal with? New York is quite liberal and college athletics is often criticized. How does SBU plan to overcome the expected criticism to be leveled from SBU's left? e.g. stadium money should be redirected to starving professors or SBU should direct the money to offering more unpopular dead languages.

To reply:
1) Most likely targets for SBU would be the MAC with Buffalo, or some sort of arrangements with the remnants of the Big East (Rutgers and UConn specifically). The former is much more likely even if idealists on campus are hopeful for the latter. Either way, it'll take the better part of a decade for either situation to happen.

2) Stadium max capacity is "unknown", as it wasn't built with the inlaid infrastructure U Albany is building theirs with. That said, estimates have us between 25-30K. This would be more than reasonable for the MAC, many of whose members only draw between 20-25K, if even that many. The MAC, for all intensive purposes is an FCS league that plays in the FBS. The best utility of the MAC is for the FBS-level visibility, and the rivalry with Buffalo. The pipedream of joining Rutgers/U Conn would likely require a new facility or a neutral ground (perhaps whatever Charles Wang wants to build to replace the Nassau Colisseum. He has gone on record as threatening to build it in Brentwood, about 20 mins from campus. He has previously donated to SBU).

3) Every SUNY has those to a degree. Ours have been placated by the new president in a variety of manners, and a good majority of the campus is in support of a move towards better athletic notoriety. Die hards may not agree, but realistically a solid way for a state school to improve visibility (and thus the quality of its student body/faculty) is via athletics. So long as athletics doesn't sump at research funding, I would imagine SBU faculty would be ok. That said, it's still common for faculty to give the proverbial middle finger to athletes with intensive travel schedules, putting them between a rock and a hard place.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

The CAA is a basketball league that is shifting it's focus to Virginia and North Carolina.

The CAA has always been a VA-centric conference. There is one team in NC, UNCW, and they're not very good.



That is being driven by its TV contract with Versus and they're desperately trying to fill out a schedule that will sell like as if VCU was still in the league.

The NBC Sports deal was made as much for the football side as the basketball. Losing ODU may hurt a bit, but getting SBU and with it Long Island would more than make up for the loss of Norfolk.



The football conference can become a half-half of AE schools in the north and CAA schools in the south. Everyone wins. Except Delaware. But that's a good thing.

It's the way it has always been. Yankee Conference, A-10 Football, CAA Football, etc, there has always been an odd mishmash of Atlantic 10, America East, CAA, and Big East members playing football against each other. This doesn't really effect Delaware in any way. As long as Delaware stays in the FCS it will be playing against the same general group of schools as it has been for decades. The CAA will rebuild and challenge the A-10 for mid-major basketball bragging rights again, and will continue to be one of the strongest mid-major conferences in the nation for lacrosse and olympic sports. The America East Conference will continue to exist without any real direction or ambition which apparently suits many of the current members fine who are just looking for an inexpensive regional place to park their sports programs.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I can easily see a conference made up of Temple, Rutgers, Uconn, Umass, Buffalo, SBU, maybe Delaware etc in the not too distant future. All are very similar schools trapped a bit in football neverland.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

I can easily see a conference made up of Temple, Rutgers, Uconn, Umass, Buffalo, SBU, maybe Delaware etc in the not too distant future. All are very similar schools trapped a bit in football neverland.

Unless the Big East somehow completely implodes I can't see Temple or UConn leaving. Both have strong enough basketball programs that even if their football programs struggle (and they aren't doing that bad) the Big East will keep them around.

Not that every Delaware fan wouldn't jump for joy at a conference affiliation that somehow reunited us with Temple, UConn, UMass, Rutgers, and a select group of other schools, but I some extremely weird things would have to happen for that to come to light, even in context of some of the recent goofy realignment moves.

[CRAZY_DANE]

I realize the world is in love with SBU but Albany is the 57th largest media market in the US. For comparison other cities ranked in the 50s includes New Orleans and Buffalo. These are far from small towns. But unlike those cities Albany doesn't have either a pro team or a FBS team. Can you say untapped market? Albany also has had growth when Buffalo has seen contraction.

I'm looking forward to reviving the UA - SBU rivalry. There is little difference between UA and SBU. I don't see UA going FBS for a good 10 years so I was wondering why SBU fans are so confident something was immanent.

[Redwyn]

I realize the world is in love with SBU but Albany is the 57th largest media market in the US. For comparison other cities ranked in the 50s includes New Orleans and Buffalo. These are far from small towns. But unlike those cities Albany doesn't have either a pro team or a FBS team. Can you say untapped market? Albany also has had growth when Buffalo has seen contraction.

I'm looking forward to reviving the UA - SBU rivalry. There is little difference between UA and SBU. I don't see UA going FBS for a good 10 years so I was wondering why SBU fans are so confident something was immanent.

It's hard to forge a demographic argument, especially for mid-major athletics. Fact is, neither Albany nor SBU are the #1 game in town, and that's about what it is. Our fan base goes like any others - on our records.

No realistic SBU fan thinks FBS is imminent. We have an 8500 man stadium, which if it sold out every game would still put is in the bottom half of CAA attendance. There is SUBSTANTIAL growth to be made before anyone utters FBS without laughter. I think we're optimistic because the school's overall rate of growth indicates a high ceiling, but that's about it for the realists among us.

That said, 10 years is a long time. Great programs rise and fall in that span. It should be fun to watch both our programs grow. As for me - I really enjoyed SBU vs. Albany football last year. It was the most fun I've ever had going to SBU games, and I've been at nearly all of them since 2004. This last year showed SBU and Albany athletics matched up well in nearly every ball sport. SBU came out on top in most of them, but that could simply mean that it'll be Albany's turn next year.

On the football end, good competitive football between rivals is always a good thing, and I'd be against going somewhere new without Albany.

[CRAZY_DANE]

It's hard to forge a demographic argument, especially for mid-major athletics. Fact is, neither Albany nor SBU are the #1 game in town, and that's about what it is. Our fan base goes like any others - on our records.

No realistic SBU fan thinks FBS is imminent. We have an 8500 man stadium, which if it sold out every game would still put is in the bottom half of CAA attendance. There is SUBSTANTIAL growth to be made before anyone utters FBS without laughter. I think we're optimistic because the school's overall rate of growth indicates a high ceiling, but that's about it for the realists among us.

That said, 10 years is a long time. Great programs rise and fall in that span. It should be fun to watch both our programs grow. As for me - I really enjoyed SBU vs. Albany football last year. It was the most fun I've ever had going to SBU games, and I've been at nearly all of them since 2004. This last year showed SBU and Albany athletics matched up well in nearly every ball sport. SBU came out on top in most of them, but that could simply mean that it'll be Albany's turn next year.

On the football end, good competitive football between rivals is always a good thing, and I'd be against going somewhere new without Albany.

At the risk of a love fest, I'm so looking forward to the UA-SBU rivalry. Your right, the UA-SBU game was great last year. I think rivalries drive programs forward. I think the SEC is so strong because of a tight regional rivalry. Rivalries make programs better. The northeast needs this rivalry.

[jmufan]

Does the $1M exit fee apply to both the CAA and CAAF? $1M makes sense for all sports but sounds a bit exessive for just one sport. Clarification please.

It is only for all sports.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I realize the world is in love with SBU but Albany is the 57th largest media market in the US. For comparison other cities ranked in the 50s includes New Orleans and Buffalo. These are far from small towns. But unlike those cities Albany doesn't have either a pro team or a FBS team. Can you say untapped market? Albany also has had growth when Buffalo has seen contraction.


From what I've seen, Stony Brook does pretty well in a congested NYC/LI market. The stadium is very pleasant and the crowd really rocks. That said, I have to agree about the untapped potential in the Albany/Schenectady/Troy area. I think that "if you build it, they will come" applies there - and Albany is building it.

I grew up in the area; I know that the people there are very down to earth and "folksy" - many blue collar industrial workers and state government employees. They're into little league baseball, hunting & fishing, winter skiing, Saratoga horses and their Adirondack "camps" - just as I was. People in those parts are much more connected to the north woods than they are with Boston or New York City. Those north woods belong to them.

If area residents feel as if the new Albany stadium "belongs" to them - that is, they don't feel intimidated by the academic campus and they know that they can get there and "be themselves," then the stadium will be a huge success. Ordinary folks not connected with the university will begin to take "ownership" of the team and they'll become regulars. They'll learn more about the Danes' opponents (some long-term residents are fairly isolated and parochial) and they'll have reason to cheer against them and in favor of the home team.

Siena basketball always has done a fairly nice job in this regard. Contrast that to RPI and especially Union College, both of which tend to be viewed as academic fortresses with little community contact (RPI hockey notwithstanding).

If the Danes open the stadium by making it clear that "this is your team, Albany!" then I think it's going to be a huge success. Couple that with a full scholarship move to the CAA and it could really change the face of Albany athletics and of the University as a whole. No longer will it be simply "the SUNY campus" - it will be the Albany Danes.

[Steve81]

Does the $1M exit fee apply to both the CAA and CAAF? $1M makes sense for all sports but sounds a bit exessive for just one sport. Clarification please. Not only is it only for all sports as JMUFan says, there is $0 exit fee to upgrade to FBS some day. Congrates to the Danes!

[danefan]

From what I've seen, Stony Brook does pretty well in a congested NYC/LI market. The stadium is very pleasant and the crowd really rocks. That said, I have to agree about the untapped potential in the Albany/Schenectady/Troy area. I think that "if you build it, they will come" applies there - and Albany is building it.

I grew up in the area; I know that the people there are very down to earth and "folksy" - many blue collar industrial workers and state government employees. They're into little league baseball, hunting & fishing, winter skiing, Saratoga horses and their Adirondack "camps" - just as I was. People in those parts are much more connected to the north woods than they are with Boston or New York City. Those north woods belong to them.

If area residents feel as if the new Albany stadium "belongs" to them - that is, they don't feel intimidated by the academic campus and they know that they can get there and "be themselves," then the stadium will be a huge success. Ordinary folks not connected with the university will begin to take "ownership" of the team and they'll become regulars. They'll learn more about the Danes' opponents (some long-term residents are fairly isolated and parochial) and they'll have reason to cheer against them and in favor of the home team.

Siena basketball always has done a fairly nice job in this regard. Contrast that to RPI and especially Union College, both of which tend to be viewed as academic fortresses with little community contact (RPI hockey notwithstanding).

If the Danes open the stadium by making it clear that "this is your team, Albany!" then I think it's going to be a huge success. Couple that with a full scholarship move to the CAA and it could really change the face of Albany athletics and of the University as a whole. No longer will it be simply "the SUNY campus" - it will be the Albany Danes.

Spot on.

The stadium and this move for the football program is targeted at bridging the gap to making UAlbany a community pillar.

President Philip even specifically called it out in a recent letter to the editor.


Our commitment is demonstrated through unprecedented campus renewal. The rehab of the downtown campus provides a welcoming place for students and the community. UAlbany, the city of Albany, The College of Saint Rose and Capital District Transportation Committee have partnered on a study to improve the quality of life of a critical part of the midtown area. At the uptown campus, the new multi-sports complex will serve the campus and the community. Last year's Community Day attracted 7,000 visitors.
UAlbany has always been firmly rooted in this community. Our programs and partnerships will continue to shine and enrich the region for years to come.


Read more: http://www.timesunion.com/opinion/article/Letter-UAlbany-always-enriched-region-3711469.php#ixzz21PUInQPA

[WWII]

At this weekends golf outing, Albany football alums were told, by coach Ford, that we were going to be invited to join CAA (football only) along with SBU and that URI was also staying in CAA football.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The stadium and this move for the football program is targeted at bridging the gap to making UAlbany a community pillar.

I can even spell "Schenectady" without looking it up! xlolx

For all the crap I and my fellow Pards have piled on lately, we acknowledge that our alma mater always has done a good job of bridging the perceived town/gown divide. We're literally the isolated "College Up on the Hill" where most folks ordinarily would not dare tread.

But for more than 100 years, we've hosted the annual Thanksgiving Day high school football game between Easton (PA) and Phillipsburg (NJ). 15-17 thousand fans attend every November in a bleacher-busting, sellout crowd. It makes the seemingly-cloistered little 2,200 student campus open and accessible to all.

Believe it or not, tradition dictates that folks from Phillipsburg, NJ, in the tens of thousands, literally walk - in parade fashion - across the bridge between NJ and PA, up the hill, and into Fisher Field, on Thanksgiving morning. Fisher becomes their community meeting place. It's their place and they own it - at least the winner does! No problem with directions. No problem with parking. Folks actually walk a couple of miles, up College Hill, across campus, and to the game.

It's tough to make a cloistered little campus like ours seem accessible to everyone. But by going overboard to make sure that the Phillipsburg-Easton game and other community events are open to all, we are able to attract football attendance from local residents during the season that is four (or more) times our entire student population. Basketball games get packed with high school and middle school kids - and their parents. Lacrosse as well. There's no way that a tiny little college such as ours would be where we are without that community support.

UAlbany President Phillip need only take his own advice and make sure that that the university pushes relentlessly - and genuinely - for community involvement. It will make an extraordinary difference to the university, to its alumni and to the people of the Capital District.

Good luck, guys. I'm pulling for you.

[Bill]

Bogus

I'm late to this party...but do iI detect a little Stateliner in you?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Bogus

I'm late to this party...but do iI detect a little Stateliner in you?


Umm . . . I now live on the Jersey Side, Bill. :)

You can't go down the 22 hill towards the Easton "toll bridge" without passing the place and paying some homage to the P-burg faithful. They're entitled.

And I went to high school in Massachusetts and later in Southeastern Pennsylvania (not Phillipsburg)!

But since I penned yesterday a fairly strident (private) letter to an acquaintance within the administration (under my actual name) regarding the upcoming "Town Hall," there now appears to be a scintilla of guilt resting withing my bones that compels me to write something nice about the ol' Pardsville mystique. So I did.

[UNH Fanboi]

At this weekends golf outing, Albany football alums were told, by coach Ford, that we were going to be invited to join CAA (football only) along with SBU and that URI was also staying in CAA football.

Interesting. If this is true, the CAA North is back, baby! Combined with the Patriot League going full-scholly, the future of FCS football in the northeast is looking a lot brighter than it was a year ago.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Interesting. If this is true, the CAA North is back, baby! Combined with the Patriot League going full-scholly, the future of FCS football in the northeast is looking a lot brighter than it was a year ago.

It's a beautiful thing.

[Go...gate]

Late to this as well - is it a done deal? It will make the Albany - Colgate series even more meaningful.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Over on GoHens.net:




The rumors and leaks are getting stronger that the new CAA football members are Albany, SBU, URI (staying) and Elon. CofC, Elon & Davidson for all other sports.

[MplsBison]

So I was basically right when I said it was going to be Davidson and CoC.


Virginia & the Carolinas is the future of the CAA. American East football is the future of CAA football. Suck it Delaware. xnodx xnodx Shouldn't have screwed with the AE in the first place. Your fault for being selfish and greedy.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The rumors and leaks are getting stronger that the new CAA football members are Albany, SBU, URI (staying) and Elon. CofC, Elon & Davidson for all other sports.

Elon by definition would have to be an all-sports member, unless the SoCon will turn around and be gracious to the CAA after it pilfers their two best hoops programs, i.e, unlikely.

It also poses a huge problem for the CAA - who do you stick in the north, Delaware, Villanova, or Towson? My math says 12 teams, and I count five northern teams: Albany, SBU, URI, Maine, UNH.

[UAalum72]

American East football is the future of CAA football.
There is no "n" in America East.

[jmu_duke07]

If these new additions are true, then I'm embarrased.... I really hope JMU does leave the CAA. This just set the CAA back 15 years..

[UNH Fanboi]

Elon by definition would have to be an all-sports member, unless the SoCon will turn around and be gracious to the CAA after it pilfers their two best hoops programs, i.e, unlikely.

It also poses a huge problem for the CAA - who do you stick in the north, Delaware, Villanova, or Towson? My math says 12 teams, and I count five northern teams: Albany, SBU, URI, Maine, UNH.

Maybe Nova, but let them play Delaware every year.

[MplsBison]

Elon by definition would have to be an all-sports member, unless the SoCon will turn around and be gracious to the CAA after it pilfers their two best hoops programs, i.e, unlikely.

It also poses a huge problem for the CAA - who do you stick in the north, Delaware, Villanova, or Towson? My math says 12 teams, and I count five northern teams: Albany, SBU, URI, Maine, UNH.

Delaware xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

[MplsBison]

If these new additions are true, then I'm embarrased.... I really hope JMU does leave the CAA. This just set the CAA back 15 years..

JMU to the SoCon? Or to the CUSA?

[MplsBison]

The CAA has always been a VA-centric conference. There is one team in NC, UNCW, and they're not very good.


The NBC Sports deal was made as much for the football side as the basketball. Losing ODU may hurt a bit, but getting SBU and with it Long Island would more than make up for the loss of Norfolk.



It's the way it has always been. Yankee Conference, A-10 Football, CAA Football, etc, there has always been an odd mishmash of Atlantic 10, America East, CAA, and Big East members playing football against each other. This doesn't really effect Delaware in any way. As long as Delaware stays in the FCS it will be playing against the same general group of schools as it has been for decades. The CAA will rebuild and challenge the A-10 for mid-major basketball bragging rights again, and will continue to be one of the strongest mid-major conferences in the nation for lacrosse and olympic sports. The America East Conference will continue to exist without any real direction or ambition which apparently suits many of the current members fine who are just looking for an inexpensive regional place to park their sports programs.

CAA football on Versus is nothing more than a Delaware forced fantasy. Delaware strong armed a basketball TV deal to include Hen football. That is painfully obvious by the schedule.

It'll flop after one year, with no VCU bball to peg the ratings to. Hopefully Davidson can salvage it so that they don't cancel the contract completely.


CAA is now a one-bid league. That much is also painfully obvious.

[danefan]

O
Elon by definition would have to be an all-sports member, unless the SoCon will turn around and be gracious to the CAA after it pilfers their two best hoops programs, i.e, unlikely.

It also poses a huge problem for the CAA - who do you stick in the north, Delaware, Villanova, or Towson? My math says 12 teams, and I count five northern teams: Albany, SBU, URI, Maine, UNH.

Since when is Philadelphia not in the North?

If there are two divisions, Delaware and Villanova will be split, but it won't matter, they'll still play every year and the divisions mean zero for the playoffs.

[bluehenbillk]

I can easily see a conference made up of Temple, Rutgers, Uconn, Umass, Buffalo, SBU, maybe Delaware etc in the not too distant future. All are very similar schools trapped a bit in football neverland.

I'd argue we're in neverland right now. 1-AA is getting more meaningless than ever...

[mainejeff]

If these new additions are true, then I'm embarrased.... I really hope JMU does leave the CAA. This just set the CAA back 15 years..

Don't let the door hit you on the way out..........

[mainejeff]

I'd argue we're in neverland right now. 1-AA is getting more meaningless than ever...

Does that coinside with Delaware's recent failures on the football field??........

Here's an idea.........all whiners (you know who you are!) get the F out of The FCS.........and let the rest of us enjoy college football at a level that we are comfortable and satisfied with. Deal?

[NHwildEcat]

That would suit Delaware's desires only. The more it can make people think that it belongs to a solid, genuine "all-sports" conference, the better.

But the fact of the matter is that the CAA is looking for basketball members. It has that duty, in order to fulfill it's commitment to Versus for the basketball TV contract that it just earned on the back of VCU's performances.

That's why Davidson and CoC are being brought in to the CAA.

In the CAAFC, the separate entity, Albany and perhaps SBU will be brought in and they'll continue to be members of the American East.



I just can't wait for the day that Delaware will have to show itself as members of the CAA (for basketball) and the American East for football. Makes me giddy, as I said.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda stayed in the AE from the get go.

The AE will have 4 members in the CAAFC and in the best position yet to be the majority of the conference.

The day the AE wants to run a football conference, will be the first. You have no clue about how football runs in the northeast...therefore you should just shut up and give up on this annoying Delaware black mail world in which you live in.

[bluehenbillk]

Does that coinside with Delaware's recent failures on the football field??........

Here's an idea.........all whiners (you know who you are!) get the F out of The FCS.........and let the rest of us enjoy college football at a level that we are comfortable and satisfied with. Deal?

Pot calling kettle black alert - all time whiner in college football....

[mainejeff]

Pot calling kettle black alert - all time whiner in college football....

Yeah.......OK....whatever.

[mainejeff]

Penn State Football.........the way collegiate football should be.

Go State! Joe Pa....Go Pa! Rah rah rah!.......

[asumike83]

Losing Elon, Charleston and Davidson would leave the SoCon at 8 teams for football and 9 for basketball. It also creates an imbalance in the basketball divisions. It will be interesting to see if the SoCon goes after just one all-sports member to get back to 9 football and 10 basketball or if non-football members are pursued as well.

[MplsBison]

Losing Elon, Charleston and Davidson would leave the SoCon at 8 teams for football and 9 for basketball. It also creates an imbalance in the basketball divisions. It will be interesting to see if the SoCon goes after just one all-sports member to get back to 9 football and 10 basketball or if non-football members are pursued as well.

9 and 10 is good for scheduling. Will it be another private or a public? North Alabama?

[whitey]

Most conference don't do divisions in basketball. SoCon can always get back up to an even number of teams for all sports and do away with divisions entirely.

[GannonFan]

O

Since when is Philadelphia not in the North?

If there are two divisions, Delaware and Villanova will be split, but it won't matter, they'll still play every year and the divisions mean zero for the playoffs.

Agree - divisions in the CAA mean nothing. Unless there's some requirement that you have divisions just go with one big league and work out the scheduling from there. There'll already be cross-overs (like UD/nova) that will transcend divisional play anway. Leave it as one big bunch and go from there.

[MplsBison]

Agree - divisions in the CAA mean nothing. Unless there's some requirement that you have divisions just go with one big league and work out the scheduling from there. There'll already be cross-overs (like UD/nova) that will transcend divisional play anway. Leave it as one big bunch and go from there.

Divisions absolutely do matter: regular season scheduling.

Why on earth would football schools in Virginia and Carolinas want to play games up in the northeast? Divisions help with that.


Delaware will be playing in essentially the America East division. Games against UNH, Maine, Rhode Island, Stony Brook and Albany every year.

[asumike83]

9 and 10 is good for scheduling. Will it be another private or a public? North Alabama?

Although many do not want them because they do not like the academic fit and/or do not want another SC school, I would love to get Coastal. They fit geographically and for our three major sports, they would fill a void.

Football: Young program that has made a couple of playoff appearances. Would be a solid, competitive replacement for Elon.
Baseball: Excellent program. Hard to make up for the loss of two quality programs in Elon and Charleston but are as good or better than either individually.
Basketball: Not on par with Davidson or Charleston but no realistic candidate would be. They have had some good teams and would be a nice addition.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Agree - divisions in the CAA mean nothing. Unless there's some requirement that you have divisions just go with one big league and work out the scheduling from there. There'll already be cross-overs (like UD/nova) that will transcend divisional play anway. Leave it as one big bunch and go from there.

O, naive one.

Let's do some math. Assume eight CAA conf games every year.

CAA South (+ Villanova, rivalry game) = home game with Delaware every other year.

URI, UNH, Albany, SBU, Maine = home game with Delaware every six years. (2 cross-division matchups, 1 home, 1 away, for Delaware).

Nah, divisions mean nothing. xrolleyesx

[MplsBison]

Although many do not want them because they do not like the academic fit and/or do not want another SC school, I would love to get Coastal. They fit geographically and for our three major sports, they would fill a void.

Football: Young program that has made a couple of playoff appearances. Would be a solid, competitive replacement for Elon.
Baseball: Excellent program. Hard to make up for the loss of two quality programs in Elon and Charleston but are as good or better than either individually.
Basketball: Not on par with Davidson or Charleston but no realistic candidate would be. They have had some good teams and would be a nice addition.

I for one am still not entirely convinced Elon is leaving. The argument has been made of why THEY would like to be in the CAA, but it has to be the CAA that invites them.

The CAA is looking for impact bball teams to add from the Carolinas. They have to appease UNCW and they have to replace VCU & ODU for bball TV. End. That's Davidson and CoC.

The separate football entity can look at to add football-only memberships from the north as it sees fit. That's Albany and Stony Brook and keeping RI.


Neither of those work for Elon.

[asumike83]

I for one am still not entirely convinced Elon is leaving. The argument has been made of why THEY would like to be in the CAA, but it has to be the CAA that invites them.

The CAA is looking for impact bball teams to add from the Carolinas. They have to appease UNCW and they have to replace VCU & ODU for bball TV. End. That's Davidson and CoC.

The separate football entity can look at to add football-only memberships from the north as it sees fit. That's Albany and Stony Brook and keeping RI.


Neither of those work for Elon.

True, nothing is certain yet and this is all predicated on the rumors being true that Elon, C of C and Davidson are gone. I know that geography was a concern at Davidson. I am purely speculating but maybe Davidson wanted another travel partner before coming on board and Elon wanted to go?

[henfan]

Divisions absolutely do matter: regular season scheduling.

No, they really don't. It would be very easy for the CAA to address and balance geography and competitive concerns without breaking out into superfluous divisions. That said, the CAA could very well go with a divisional lineup once again if they go back to 12 teams or more. The Yankee, A-10 and CAA all briefly experimented with divisional play, which never really added any value and was the reason why it was abandoned by the CAA.

No one probably gives a fig either way, except for maybe VU. Putting VU in the north and forcing them to play schools with whom they have no rivalries will definitely hurt VU. Their most-played rivals are UD, W&M and UR.

UD would be fine in either split, since they have long-term rivals on both sides (UM, UNH, URI, W&M, UR & JMU). It's all good for Delaware.xthumbsupx

[whitey]

If these new additions are true, then I'm embarrased.... I really hope JMU does leave the CAA. This just set the CAA back 15 years..

I'm not happy at all about Rhode Island sticking around if that's true. But Albany and Stony Brook are good adds to the football side for the CAA. Both schools already have been successful at the FCS level, are heavily investing in facilities and won't take long to compete with the existing CAA programs on the field. My guess is both will be competitive starting in year 1. I don't think JMU will be in FCS forever but likely will be for the next few years as Alger settles into his new role as President. Looking at this from the CAA perspective and not the JMU perspective I think this is a solid move by the CAA considering.

[MplsBison]

No, they really don't. It would be very easy for the CAA to address and balance geography and competitive concerns without breaking out into superfluous divisions. That said, the CAA could very well go with a divisional lineup once again if they go back to 12 teams or more. The Yankee, A-10 and CAA all briefly experimented with divisional play, which never really added any value and was the reason why it was abandoned by the CAA.

No one probably gives a fig either way, except for maybe VU. Putting VU in the north and forcing them to play schools with whom they have no rivalries will definitely hurt VU. Their most-played rivals are UD, W&M and UR.

UD would be fine in either split, since they have long-term rivals on both sides (UM, UNH, URI, W&M, UR & JMU). It's all good for Delaware.xthumbsupx

Then into the America East division it is, with the AE 4 + RI.

VU and Towson in the south with the Virginia schools. You just said this won't make anyone unhappy, so there you have it. Back in the AE again, like you should've never left. You would've ended up in one-bid bball leagues either way.

[fc97]

elon isnt leaving presently, but then no one is technically, but 6 schools said they would last friday

also, appalachian and gsu were apparently making demands and thats when things got messy, why listen to the two schools make demands that dont want to be there anyway

[GannonFan]

No, they really don't. It would be very easy for the CAA to address and balance geography and competitive concerns without breaking out into superfluous divisions. That said, the CAA could very well go with a divisional lineup once again if they go back to 12 teams or more. The Yankee, A-10 and CAA all briefly experimented with divisional play, which never really added any value and was the reason why it was abandoned by the CAA.

No one probably gives a fig either way, except for maybe VU. Putting VU in the north and forcing them to play schools with whom they have no rivalries will definitely hurt VU. Their most-played rivals are UD, W&M and UR.

UD would be fine in either split, since they have long-term rivals on both sides (UM, UNH, URI, W&M, UR & JMU). It's all good for Delaware.xthumbsupx

Agreed. Even if you split into divisions, there is no requirement to play everyone in that division. In the end, it's all up to the scheduling and that can be anything you want it to be. Basketball doesn't have divisions and yet there are pre-arranged scheduling criteria that keep certain rivals playing other rivals every year no matter what. In the end, in a football conference that gets 4-5 teams in the playoffs each year, divisions don't matter. They do matter to posters on message boards, but in the real world, no.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

No, they really don't. It would be very easy for the CAA to address and balance geography and competitive concerns without breaking out into superfluous divisions.

So, 12 conference teams, no divisions, assume one "rivalry game" a year while rotating missed games.

That then does nothing to convince the Northern teams that they're going to get screwed with more expenses with new road games at Elon, you don't determine a proper champion because you're missing head-to-head play against 3 "conference" teams a year, and some undergrads still won't be able to play a home game vs. Delaware during their entire undergraduate careers.

Personally, I think the CAA has to have divisional play to keep the AE teams in the league, because it doesn't make financial sense otherwise. If you're not replacing Elon with games against Albany, why do it?

[henfan]

Then into the America East division it is, with the AE 4 + RI.

VU and Towson in the south with the Virginia schools. You just said this won't make anyone unhappy, so there you have it. Back in the AE again, like you should've never left. You would've ended up in one-bid bball leagues either way.

It would have been great to have an AEC FB league but the AEC didn't want it. UD had tried for years to encourage the AEC to land FB. UD was one of the primary schools (along with HU) in Fall 2000 advocating a takeover of the CAA by the AEC. The move to the CAA was one that UD felt it had make to play all sports under a single umbrella. The CAA was a single bid MBB league when they entered the league, so that wasn't even a remote concern in 2000.

Even after the defections of VCU and ODU, the CAA remains a better competitive league top to bottom across the gamut of sports when compared with the AEC (especially, the AEC minus BU) and the league gives UD a place to play all sports. It was a good move in 2000 and, in retrospect, remains an even better move.

[henfan]

So, 12 conference teams, no divisions, assume one "rivalry game" a year while rotating missed games.

That then does nothing to convince the Northern teams that they're going to get screwed with more expenses with new road games at Elon, you don't determine a proper champion because you're missing head-to-head play against 3 "conference" teams a year, and some undergrads still won't be able to play a home game vs. Delaware during their entire undergraduate careers.

Personally, I think the CAA has to have divisional play to keep the AE teams in the league, because it doesn't make financial sense otherwise. If you're not replacing Elon with games against Albany, why do it?

How would a divisional alignment address any of this?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against divisions. I just fail to see any benefit whatsoever that couldn't be accomplished without official divisional designations.

[MplsBison]

It would have been great to have an AEC FB league but the AEC didn't want it. UD had tried for years to encourage the AEC to land FB. UD was one of the primary schools (along with HU) in Fall 2000 advocating a takeover of the CAA by the AEC. The move to the CAA was one that UD felt it had make to play all sports under a single umbrella. The CAA was a single bid MBB league when they entered the league, so that wasn't even a remote concern in 2000.

Even after the defections of VCU and ODU, the CAA remains a better competitive league top to bottom across the gamut of sports when compared with the AEC (especially, the AEC minus BU) and the league gives UD a place to play all sports. It was a good move in 2000 and, in retrospect, remains an even better move.

Yeah I get it. It was the right move at that time. I'm tired of busting your balls for it.

[MplsBison]

How does divisional play address any of this?

Just makes it neater. You can write in the rule book that every team in a division has to play each other.

With one big block of teams, especially since every team WON'T play every other team (unlike bball), it's willy nilly.

[danefan]

Call it Divisions or a Scheduling Arrangement or whatever, but I think Albany's schedule will looking like this in 2013 (in no particular order):

vs. Ivy OOC (Stadium Opener)
@ Patriot OOC
vs. NEC OOC
vs. Maine
@ UNH
vs. Stony Brook
@ URI
@ Villanova
vs. Towson
@ Delaware, Richmond, W&M, JMU, Elon/Coastal
@ Delaware, Richmond, W&M, JMU, Elon/Coastal
vs. Delaware, Richmond, W&M, JMU, Elon/Coastal

2014:
@ FBS
vs. Patriot OOC
@ Ivy OOC
@ Maine
vs. UNH
@ Stony Brook
vs URI
vs Villanova
@ Towson
vs Delaware, Richmond, W&M, JMU, Elon/Coastal
vs Delaware, Richmond, W&M, JMU, Elon/Coastal
@ Delaware, Richmond, W&M, JMU, Elon/Coastal

[henfan]

Just makes it neater. You can write in the rule book that every team in a division has to play each other.

With one big block of teams, especially since every team WON'T play every other team (unlike bball), it's willy nilly.

But what does neatness get you from the competitive or financial standpoint? A common sense scheduling doesn't have to be "willy nilly", especially if it gives the league the flexibility to make quick changes to accommodate membership changes... if you get my drift. The one thing that's been constant with CAA FB has been change. Looking at this lineup of FB schools, there will undoubtedly be more to come.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Call it Divisions or a Scheduling Arrangement or whatever, but I think Albany's schedule will looking like this in 2013 (in no particular order):

I see what you did there. Ouch. No NEC in 2014?

[danefan]

I see what you did there. Ouch. No NEC in 2014?

NEC teams aren't going to fill any seats in our stadium or drum up interest in the program. We need name opponents for the next 5-10 years, but an NEC could easily replace the Ivy or the PL on the OOC schedule. I hope the NEC team is CCSU, Bryant or Monmouth. I wouldn't mind seeing continued association with those schools.

In the long run I would expect an FBS game plus 2-3 PL/IVY/NEC OOC games per year going forward depending on whether its a 12-game year or not.

[MplsBison]

A game at UMass might be fun for your alumni in Boston.

[MplsBison]

But what does neatness get you from the competitive or financial standpoint? A common sense scheduling doesn't have to be "willy nilly", especially if it gives the league the flexibility to make quick changes to accommodate membership changes... if you get my drift. The one thing that's been constant with CAA FB has been change. Looking at this lineup of FB schools, there will undoubtedly be more to come.

I know what you're saying. Still.

Southern schools might want something concrete that gives them assurance they won't have to travel to Maine, Albany and Rhode Island in the same season, because "that's the way the schedule worked out this year".

[danefan]

A game at UMass might be fun for your alumni in Boston.

We're heavily NYC dominated in our alumni base, but a game at BC would be better.

We're going to take our lumps in 2013-2015 both in-conference and OOC. I'd rather see larger name FBS opponents in those years even with bigger paydays.... if it means bigger losses....

[Seawolf97]

A game at UMass might be fun for your alumni in Boston.

I think UMass is not playing any FCS programs going forward. Could be wrong but I saw it somewhere.

[henfan]

Wondering if the announcement will be made before or after CAA FB Media Day on Wednesday.

[whitey]

Maybe during? Otherwise likely after.

[UNH Fanboi]

NEC teams aren't going to fill any seats in our stadium or drum up interest in the program. We need name opponents for the next 5-10 years, but an NEC could easily replace the Ivy or the PL on the OOC schedule. I hope the NEC team is CCSU, Bryant or Monmouth. I wouldn't mind seeing continued association with those schools.

In the long run I would expect an FBS game plus 2-3 PL/IVY/NEC OOC games per year going forward depending on whether its a 12-game year or not.

Man, just a few months ago Albany fans were writing long-winded posts defending the quality of the NEC and now, before they are even officially gone, they are acting like even being on the same field with an NEC team is beneath them.

[henfan]

Yeager's statement today seems to suggest that an announcement won't be made until after Media Day.
http://www.caafootballblog.com/2012/07/caafb-commissioner-tom-yeager-pre-media.html

[danefan]

Man, just a few months ago Albany fans were writing long-winded posts defending the quality of the NEC and now, before they are even officially gone, they are acting like even being on the same field with an NEC team is beneath them.

You've misunderstood my comment.

My thoughts on OOC scheduling have nothing to do with the on-field quality of the NEC. What I'm talking about us getting "name" opponents that our potential fans would come to see.

This is the same point I've been making for years as an argument for Albany to leave the NEC. You can't build a consistently competitive team (nationally) on 40 scholarships and playing teams like St Francis that no one has ever heard of.

Again, nothing against the NEC teams as far as on field success. CCSU, Monmouth and Bryant will be solid teams in the future. Equal to or better than most Ivy teams and some of the full scholarship Patriot Legues teams. That still isn't putting butts in our new seats.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Man, just a few months ago Albany fans were writing long-winded posts defending the quality of the NEC and now, before they are even officially gone, they are acting like even being on the same field with an NEC team is beneath them.

How did you get that out of what dane said?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yeager's statement today seems to suggest that an announcement won't be made until after Media Day.
http://www.caafootballblog.com/2012/07/caafb-commissioner-tom-yeager-pre-media.html

Probably just a timing thing with either one or several schools just not having all the I's and T's done by then?

[UNH Fanboi]

How did you get that out of what dane said?

I was just ribbing him a little bit

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I was just ribbing him a little bit

Damn you. I reread his post twice thinking "WTF am i missing here".:D

[UNH Fanboi]

You've misunderstood my comment.

My thoughts on OOC scheduling have nothing to do with the on-field quality of the NEC. What I'm talking about us getting "name" opponents that our potential fans would come to see.

This is the same point I've been making for years as an argument for Albany to leave the NEC. You can't build a consistently competitive team (nationally) on 40 scholarships and playing teams like St Francis that no one has ever heard of.

Again, nothing against the NEC teams as far as on field success. CCSU, Monmouth and Bryant will be solid teams in the future. Equal to or better than most Ivy teams and some of the full scholarship Patriot Legues teams. That still isn't putting butts in our new seats.

Just kidding. I've always been impressed by Albany's willingness to win respect on the field by scheduling tough OOC opponents (unlike some other teams from lesser conferences that play 11 cupcake game and complain about lack of respect).

[danefan]

Just kidding. I've always been impressed by Albany's willingness to win respect on the field by scheduling tough OOC opponents (unlike some other teams from lesser conferences that play 11 cupcake game and complain about lack of respect).

Sorry. I thought you were getting after me.....which I was surprised at!

Coach Ford was talking this weekend about how it's been tough to play 3-4 "up" games per year and incredible it will be to know you're going to have 8-9. Should be great.

[NHwildEcat]

Albany fans...I hope to make it out for UNH's first conference game out in Albany at your new stadium! Hopefully when the time comes it will work out timing wise, because I enjoy heading towards upstate NY...maybe I'll go to the baseball HOF afterwards!

[Sader87]

You've misunderstood my comment.

My thoughts on OOC scheduling have nothing to do with the on-field quality of the NEC. What I'm talking about us getting "name" opponents that our potential fans would come to see.

This is the same point I've been making for years as an argument for Albany to leave the NEC. You can't build a consistently competitive team (nationally) on 40 scholarships and playing teams like St Francis that no one has ever heard of.

Again, nothing against the NEC teams as far as on field success. CCSU, Monmouth and Bryant will be solid teams in the future. Equal to or better than most Ivy teams and some of the full scholarship Patriot Legues teams. That still isn't putting butts in our new seats.

Um, no they will not....better than the occasional poor IL or PL team? Maybe, but especially with scholarships now, the PL teams will be much better than the NEC teams week-in, week-out and year-in, year-out.

[danefan]

Um, no they will not....better than the occasional poor IL or PL team? Maybe, but especially with scholarships now, the PL teams will be much better than the NEC teams week-in, week-out and year-in, year-out.

We'll see about that.

[Bogus Megapardus]

PL teams will be much better than the NEC teams week-in, week-out and year-in, year-out.

Sader87, wherever you are - someone has stolen your password and is logging in to AGS with pro-PL posts under your screen name.

We'll need to hire Louis Freeh and start and immediate investigation into the matter.

[Sader87]

Sader87, wherever you are - someone has stolen your password and is logging in to AGS with pro-PL posts under your screen name.

We'll need to hire Louis Freeh and start and immediate investigation into the matter.

Still not drinking the PL kool-aid completely, but after 25 years in the non-scholarship wilderness, it's time for Holy Cross to start kicking *** and taking names again....especially against a lot of the Johnny come-latelys and powers that be of the FCS world today.

[grayghost06]

Still not drinking the PL kool-aid completely, but after 25 years in the non-scholarship wilderness, it's time for Holy Cross to start kicking *** and taking names again....especially against a lot of the Johnny come-latelys and powers that be of the FCS world today.

And maybe a 30 year reunion game with Boston College?

[aceinthehole]

Still not drinking the PL kool-aid completely, but after 25 years in the non-scholarship wilderness, it's time for Holy Cross to start kicking *** and taking names again....especially against a lot of the Johnny come-latelys and powers that be of the FCS world today.

Please. In 2010, a Johnny come-lately named Bryant, just 2 years after reclassifying from D-II and playing with about 20 scholarships, beat your full scholarship Fordham team.

If I were a HC fan, I'd wait to see how you do at Wagner this year before suggesting any superiority over the NEC.

[fc97]

Please. In 2010, a Johnny come-lately named Bryant, just 2 years after reclassifying from D-II and playing with about 20 scholarships, beat your full scholarship Fordham team.

If I were a HC fan, I'd wait to see how you do at Wagner this year before suggesting any superiority over the NEC.

a dii making stands against fcs teams is nothing unusual and has worked out for most moveups due to the different players that would otherwise not be in fcs.

[MplsBison]

Still not drinking the PL kool-aid completely, but after 25 years in the non-scholarship wilderness, it's time for Holy Cross to start kicking *** and taking names again....especially against a lot of the Johnny come-latelys and powers that be of the FCS world today.

No....not really.

Given the admission standards at HC and the AI enforced by the PL, you're still recruiting the same pool of kids. Now you're just going to be able to offer them money even if their parents are rich, which should get you some more kids that would've otherwise gone to Ivy - I guess.


That's not the recipe to being nationally competitive in FCS against schools like Sam Houston St, Montana and NDSU.

They can sign kids who barely graduated high school but run a 4.4, have 40" verticals and squat 600lbs. How can your Byron reading, liberal arts kids compete with that?

[fc97]

those are really the same types of kids that elon, furman, wofford, samford, william&mary, richmond and all those types are recruiting too. it just means they'll be able to compete for some of those kids better.

i dont get your problem with the patriot league and i find that your opinion of private schools as a bunch of rich, spoiled kids insulting. many of us were not and saw many of the rich, spoiled kids go to public schools too

[MplsBison]

Ugh.

Yes, Richmond's national championship team was made up of exactly the same kids as PL teams.

Twit.

[jmufan]

So what about Albany? Anything new?

[Bogus Megapardus]

How can your Byron reading, liberal arts kids compete with that?

By finding guys like Blake Costanzo and Will Rackley, who can read Byron and play in the NFL at the same time.



http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/893/blake1v.jpg
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/7232/nflualane600.jpg

[jmu_duke07]

So what about Albany? Anything new?

Well, for me, taking Pepto Bismol helps hold down the vomit everytime I think about them joining the CAA... Thats new.

[MplsBison]

By finding guys like Blake Costanzo and Will Rackley, who can read Byron and play in the NFL at the same time.



Ah, good point.

I forgot that a single, all-american player can often singlehandedly guide his team to the I-AA national championship.

[danefan]

Well, for me, taking Pepto Bismol helps hold down the vomit everytime I think about them joining the CAA... Thats new.

Your disdain is entertaining to say the least.

I can't wait for the battle of purple and gold dogs.

[Seawolf97]

I'm a SUNY grad. Did Byron play in the PL?

[MplsBison]

I'm a SUNY grad. Did Byron play in the PL?

Adversity may indeed be the first path to truth, but a Patriot League degree is far from the ideal path to the NFL.

[fc97]

no, i said not terribly different types of students attend private schools across the board.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Given the admission standards at HC and the AI enforced by the PL, you're still recruiting the same pool of kids. Now you're just going to be able to offer them money even if their parents are rich, which should get you some more kids that would've otherwise gone to Ivy - I guess.

That's not the recipe to being nationally competitive in FCS against schools like Sam Houston St, Montana and NDSU.

They can sign kids who barely graduated high school but run a 4.4, have 40" verticals and squat 600lbs. How can your Byron reading, liberal arts kids compete with that?


By finding guys like Blake Costanzo and Will Rackley, who can read Byron and play in the NFL at the same time.


Adversity may indeed be the first path to truth, but a Patriot League degree is far from the ideal path to the NFL.

NDSU graduates 20-25 kids a year out of the football program. How many are NFL players? And, neither Lehigh nor NDSU are the ideal path to the NFL. That would be Minnesota or Michigan.

OK, so let's say scholarships allow Lehigh and Lafayette to get three such NFL-caliber playmakers, or more likely, half a dozen FCS difference-makers. That's a pretty damned good start at a national-championship team.

[ccd494]

If the "big time-ness" of the program is the sole determination of whether a program will get players to the NFL, why has the University of Maine, with its "subpar" stadium and commitment as compared to and complained about by JMU, UDel, etc. put more players into the NFL recently than all other FCS programs?

I think that the PL (and Albany, and SBU) will do just fine, vis a vis the NDSU's, the JMU's, in getting guys to the pros. It's more about your ability to identify and recruit athletes at the FCS level, and then teach proper techniques, than it is to go after the "big name" recruits that may get headlines. (Example: "RECRUIT CHOOSES GEORGIA STATE OVER [FBS school]" was a common headline.)

[Seawolf97]

I think we will do fine also. I suspect some of the old guard in the CAA may have a different opinion but adding SBU, Albany and maybe Elon will just be as competitive as ever. And we wont fold our programs and close down- the admins at all three schools are committed to FCS football for the long term.

[MplsBison]

NDSU graduates 20-25 kids a year out of the football program. How many are NFL players? And, neither Lehigh nor NDSU are the ideal path to the NFL. That would be Minnesota or Michigan.

OK, so let's say scholarships allow Lehigh and Lafayette to get three such NFL-caliber playmakers, or more likely, half a dozen FCS difference-makers. That's a pretty damned good start at a national-championship team.


If they could give a scholarship to any high school football player who qualifies for DI via the NCAA clearinghouse, that would get the players they need to be national competitive in the door. The nature of the academic programs at those schools would have most of those players transferring after the first semester, unless they created special, easy programs just for those types of players. Not likely.

So beside that fantasy, the simple fact that PL schools have such tough admission standards, let alone the fact that the PL itself decides to play nanny to everyone via the AI, means they can't even get those difference makers in the door.


That's a completely independent issue of the debate about whether or not the athletic departments at those schools should be allowed to give such players money even if their parents come from money. Of course, the correct answer to that is a resounding "YES" and the PL has agreed.

[MplsBison]

If the "big time-ness" of the program is the sole determination of whether a program will get players to the NFL, why has the University of Maine, with its "subpar" stadium and commitment as compared to and complained about by JMU, UDel, etc. put more players into the NFL recently than all other FCS programs?

I think that the PL (and Albany, and SBU) will do just fine, vis a vis the NDSU's, the JMU's, in getting guys to the pros. It's more about your ability to identify and recruit athletes at the FCS level, and then teach proper techniques, than it is to go after the "big name" recruits that may get headlines. (Example: "RECRUIT CHOOSES GEORGIA STATE OVER [FBS school]" was a common headline.)

What does "put more players in the NFL" mean?

I'd be curious to know how many players making the cut on active NFL rosters this season will not be on their first contracts and played for I-AA programs. My guess is that Maine hasn't done any better than anyone else in that department. But the data could easily be skewed by a single data point with such a small sample size.

[jmu_duke07]

Don't let the door hit you on the way out..........

So you're ok with adding less than mediocre teams? Great, I'm glad your standards are so low... I guess I shouldn't expect more from you considering the team you cheer for.

[Sader87]

When HC had football scholarships, very few of those students would not have been admitted into HC under the AI as it exists now imo. What MplsBison probably doesn't realize is that HC then and now recruits nationally. The talent pool is very wide for HC recruits now. Many of the offers already made to the first scholarship class have gone out to kids from Florida, Texas, California et. al. as well as the Northeast.

[MplsBison]

When HC had football scholarships, very few of those students would not have been admitted into HC under the AI as it exists now imo. What MplsBison probably doesn't realize is that HC then and now recruits nationally. The talent pool is very wide for HC recruits now. Many of the offers already made to the first scholarship class have gone out to kids from Florida, Texas, California et. al. as well as the Northeast.

I clearly didn't specify any geographical area. You probably will have to recruit nationally to find kids who foremost will have the academic capability to survive at HC, second won't mind that they can only earn a liberal arts degree and then 3rd are decent at football.

I for one just don't see there being very many kids who are smart enough to skate through the AI and HC's admissions and still be able to contribute meaningfully on the field. I just think very few such kids exist, in the entire country and who aren't first swallowed up by the big fish like Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, etc.

Heck, even big publics - if you have two kids who are both gifted athletes, why not also take the 4.0 gpa kid over the "...me plays foosball?!" kid?

[Sader87]

I clearly didn't specify any geographical area. You probably will have to recruit nationally to find kids who foremost will have the academic capability to survive at HC, second won't mind that they can only earn a liberal arts degree and then 3rd are decent at football.

I for one just don't see there being very many kids who are smart enough to skate through the AI and HC's admissions and still be able to contribute meaningfully on the field. I just think very few such kids exist, in the entire country and who aren't first swallowed up by the big fish like Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, etc.

Heck, even big publics - if you have two kids who are both gifted athletes, why not also take the 4.0 gpa kid over the "...me plays foosball?!" kid?

And that's probably because you have very little idea about Holy Cross and the student-athletes it has produced over the years. HC football players, then and now, have disproportionally (vis a vis most other D1 programs) turned out leaders in many fields be it business, medicine, law, education etc. There are many kids around the country today who are both very good players and very good students and they would love to go to HC to play for a strong program and then parlay the education they received into whatever profession they may want to pursue.

[MplsBison]

Why are you even mentioning HC student athlete non-athletic accomplishments in your reply? I've obviously been very complementary towards the academic requirements to attended any PL school, regardless of student-athlete status.

No doubt there are many kids in US high schools who are "very good players and very good students", as per their high school stats and GPAs. We both know those don't necessarily translate to college, especially at the I-AA level. And especially when they don't have the right bodies to develop into I-AA players.


My overall, correct point is that scholarships are going to allow you to get a few more of your type of players, that would've gone elsewhere because you couldn't give them money before. You'll get a few more of those. But the fact that your academic requirements are so hard means you have a limited recruiting pool from the get go and huge competition to land those types of players for other schools with much more name recognition.

Good luck though.

[Sader87]

Why are you even mentioning HC student athlete non-athletic accomplishments in your reply? I've obviously been very complementary towards the academic requirements to attended any PL school, regardless of student-athlete status.

No doubt there are many kids in US high schools who are "very good players and very good students", as per their high school stats and GPAs. We both know those don't necessarily translate to college, especially at the I-AA level. And especially when they don't have the right bodies to develop into I-AA players.


My overall, correct point is that scholarships are going to allow you to get a few more of your type of players, that would've gone elsewhere because you couldn't give them money before. You'll get a few more of those. But the fact that your academic requirements are so hard means you have a limited recruiting pool from the get go and huge competition to land those types of players for other schools with much more name recognition.

Good luck though.

I suppose due to your back-handed dig that HC students "only" receive a liberal arts degree. While this is indeed true, it's a very good degree with a very strong alumni network and the majority of HC grads go on to pursue higher degrees of education.

As I stated earlier, the players HC had under scholarship during the 1980's (when I was there) were very represenatative academically of what is needed today to be admitted under the AI. And HC produced some of the best FCS players in the country at that time.

My overall point initially was that now that HC has full football scholarships back again, they are poised to become national players on the FCS level. Will this happen? Only time will tell but the fundamentals: the coach, the facilities, scholarships, regained support from alums and the community etc etc are in place.

Good luck to the Bison this year too.

[State Line Liquors]

Why all the Holy Cross discussion? Are they coming to the CAA with Albany in a package deal?

[Sader87]

Why all the Holy Cross discussion? Are they coming to the CAA with Albany in a package deal?

No...we entered and left the CAA (nee Yankee Conference) after one year in 1971.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why are you even mentioning HC student athlete non-athletic accomplishments in your reply? I've obviously been very complementary towards the academic requirements to attended any PL school, regardless of student-athlete status.

He's more right than he realizes.

[ccd494]

What does "put more players in the NFL" mean?

I'd be curious to know how many players making the cut on active NFL rosters this season will not be on their first contracts and played for I-AA programs. My guess is that Maine hasn't done any better than anyone else in that department. But the data could easily be skewed by a single data point with such a small sample size.

In 2009, Maine had more players on an active NFL roster during the season than any other FCS program with seven. And all seven were contributors/on the roster all season.

Maine also had 7 players on active rosters for all of 2010.

I'm not saying this to shine Maine, just saying that if you are an FCS program, being "big" and "shiny" and "new" isn't all it is cracked up to be.

Oh, and I'm also saying you're an idiot. That too.

[Dane96]

With all due respect...shut it down with the PL talk.

I mean come on guys.

Go start another thread.

[danefan]

With all due respect...shut it down with the PL talk.

I mean come on guys.

Go start another thread.

Its a Patriot League forum now.

[Dane96]

So you're ok with adding less than mediocre teams? Great, I'm glad your standards are so low... I guess I shouldn't expect more from you considering the team you cheer for.

We've beaten numerous CAA teams....with less than 34 scholarships while doing so.

Give us the rides...give us a couple of years...and you will be regretting the mediocre comments.

[Dane96]

Its a Patriot League forum now.

LOL.

BTW...sending you a link to your e-mail.

[jmu_duke07]

We've beaten numerous CAA teams....with less than 34 scholarships while doing so.

Give us the rides...give us a couple of years...and you will be regretting the mediocre comments.

You've beaten Delaware and Maine... But got your a$$e$ handed to you other times....

[Dane96]

Ummmm...we've beaten Delaware, Maine and Hofstra. Two of them are on the road. We had a close call against UMASS and UNH.

The drubbings...we had (with the exception of two of them at UD and at UMass) less than 22 scholarships.

Do the math...

[jmu_duke07]

Ummmm...we've beaten Delaware, Maine and Hofstra. Two of them are on the road. We had a close call against UMASS and UNH.

The drubbings...we had (with the exception of two of them at UD and at UMass) less than 22 scholarships.

Do the math...

So you beat 2 horrible teams and a declining one... Congrats.

[NHwildEcat]

Glad to have Albany on board...need to keep the northern schools in the same playground. Albany brings much promise as we all move towards the future!

[Dane96]

So you beat 2 horrible teams and a declining one... Congrats.

Hey, why don't you go cry to your AD and kick a puppy. You'd feel better.

[jmufan]

oh boy, the purple and gold rivalry is already starting. xcoffeex

If the reports are true that Albany is coming on board, welcome, if SBU comes to, welcome as well.

Many JMU fans want FBS including myself, but I won't think lowly of another team because they are from a smaller conference. JMU is the team that could only beat CCSU by 5 points last year. I am sure Albany is a good team and will be even better when they have the full schollies allowed. Look forward to playing Albany if JMU is still around.

[MplsBison]

I suppose due to your back-handed dig that HC students "only" receive a liberal arts degree. While this is indeed true, it's a very good degree with a very strong alumni network and the majority of HC grads go on to pursue higher degrees of education.

As I stated earlier, the players HC had under scholarship during the 1980's (when I was there) were very represenatative academically of what is needed today to be admitted under the AI. And HC produced some of the best FCS players in the country at that time.

My overall point initially was that now that HC has full football scholarships back again, they are poised to become national players on the FCS level. Will this happen? Only time will tell but the fundamentals: the coach, the facilities, scholarships, regained support from alums and the community etc etc are in place.

Good luck to the Bison this year too.

Well then you better explain what "national players on the FCS level" means.

Because my point is that need-blind scholarships, while ethically superior over need-based grants from the athletic department, is not going to open significant doors to PL schools in terms of recruiting the play makers needed to compete with schools that don't have such restraints!

We're right back to where we started.


I guess your only leg to stand on in the first place is you think it's the 1980's again. It isn't. And what did HC even do in the 1980's? Win a bowl game or something?

[MplsBison]

In 2009, Maine had more players on an active NFL roster during the season than any other FCS program with seven. And all seven were contributors/on the roster all season.

Maine also had 7 players on active rosters for all of 2010.

I'm not saying this to shine Maine, just saying that if you are an FCS program, being "big" and "shiny" and "new" isn't all it is cracked up to be.

Oh, and I'm also saying you're an idiot. That too.

Let me try again.

How many players on active 2012 NFL rosters, who are past their rookie contracts, will have come from Maine's program? And is that more than any other I-AA program?

Who are these players, just out curiosity?


And by the way I'm dictating that they be past their rookie contracts (past the first 4 years) because that proves that they actually matter to the NFL.

[Sader87]

Well then you better explain what "national players on the FCS level" means.

Because my point is that need-blind scholarships, while ethically superior over need-based grants from the athletic department, is not going to open significant doors to PL schools in terms of recruiting the play makers needed to compete with schools that don't have such restraints!

We're right back to where we started.


I guess your only leg to stand on in the first place is you think it's the 1980's again. It isn't. And what did HC even do in the 1980's? Win a bowl game or something?

Apologies to U-Albany and CAA fans but I feel the need to respond.

HC was one of the marquee FCS programs throughout the 1980's. To deny this is to be very myopic. We won the mythical 1-AA championship in 1987, had many wins over very strong FCS programs, beat FBS programs, had a player who was 3rd in the Heisman voting, won many Lambert Cup trophies yada, yada, yada...all I'm stating is that with the return of scholarships, we have the potential to return to that level.

[DFW HOYA]

HC was one of the marquee FCS programs throughout the 1980's. To deny this is to be very myopic. We won the mythical 1-AA championship in 1987, had many wins over very strong FCS programs, beat FBS programs, had a player who was 3rd in the Heisman voting, won many Lambert Cup trophies yada, yada, yada...all I'm stating is that with the return of scholarships, we have the potential to return to that level.

Except that HC recruited much of that talent before the AI took hold. The Ivy Index doesn't expand the talent pool, it merely contains it. Scholarships won't change that.

[Sader87]

Again....the AI today would not have eliminated the vast, vast majority of football players at HC from being admitted into HC in the 1980's...Jesus this is exhausting.

[RichH2]

Sader it never pays to debate with Mpls. The only thing that matters to him is his own view which will never be altered by facts. Plus he has an agenda against the PL. My guess is that snooty elitist rich schools like ours cant be any good in sports. Probably thinks we're unAmerican. We really should not let him hijack UAs thread . Dont blame them for being annoyed.

[Dane96]

GUYS...STFU UP ABOUT THE PL IN THIS THREAD. ENOUGH!

It's straight hijacking...and you are answering a MORON (MplDOUCHE).

And thanks Rich!

[Go...gate]

Again....the AI today would not have eliminated the vast, vast majority of football players at HC from being admitted into HC in the 1980's...Jesus this is exhausting.

Correct. Some act as if the Holy Cross and Colgate of the pre-AI era were easy to get admitted to and that the AI toughened things up. Not true. Both HC and CU among the most selective schools in America.

[CRAZY_DANE]

More speculation that Albany is on its way to the CAA. A very good thing for all involved.

http://www.timesunion.com/sports/article/Change-in-the-air-at-UAlbany-3732203.php

[jmu_duke07]

More speculation that Albany is on its way to the CAA. A very good thing for all involved.

http://www.timesunion.com/sports/article/Change-in-the-air-at-UAlbany-3732203.php

Speak for yourself.

[danefan]

Speak for yourself.

I'd love to see your list of preferred additions......

[NHwildEcat]

Speak for yourself.

You're right...the CAA should just let all its football schools leave and just give up the sport entirely instead of going out and grabbing programs who are showing the level of commitment to the CAA that the conference wants.

[van]

Sader it never pays to debate with Mpls. The only thing that matters to him is his own view which will never be altered by facts. Plus he has an agenda against the PL. My guess is that snooty elitist rich schools like ours cant be any good in sports. Probably thinks we're unAmerican. We really should not let him hijack UAs thread . Dont blame them for being annoyed.

Right on Rich. A little bit of Mark Twain advice in order here.

[whitey]

I'd love to see your list of preferred additions......

As a JMU fan I welcome Albany and Stony Brook for CAA football. Both schools have a track record of success at the FCS level already and are making the necessary facilities improvements for sustained success and growth. I'm guessing Dukes07's wishlist of FCS programs is rather short (Appalachian State). Many pro-FBS JMU fans are basically App State or bust.

I'm for a move to FBS for JMU but I'm more patient than most it seems. Most pro-FBS JMU fans are fearful of being "left behind" and are demanding a move now no matter what. Conference re-alignment isn't over. Over the next 4-5 summers we'll see more and more moves. Things will open up for JMU eventually (as it will for other schools like App State, Georgia Southern, etc.) and those schools administrations will make a move when the timing is right. Meanwhile, Albany and Stony Brook are good adds for the CAA even if JMU won't be in the CAA 5 years from now. Rhode Island sticking around, OTOH, I am not happy about. Their program has been dreadful, their facilities are worse and there is no indication the school is willing to invest in it's athletic future.

[ccd494]

So you beat 2 horrible teams and a declining one... Congrats.

One of those "horrible" teams marched right out of Harrisonburg with a win last year. And won at App in the playoffs. So what does that make JMU? Sub-horrible, or just putrid?

[NHwildEcat]

As a JMU fan I welcome Albany and Stony Brook for CAA football. Both schools have a track record of success at the FCS level already and are making the necessary facilities improvements for sustained success and growth. I'm guessing Dukes07's wishlist of FCS programs is rather short (Appalachian State). Many pro-FBS JMU fans are basically App State or bust.

I'm for a move to FBS for JMU but I'm more patient than most it seems. Most pro-FBS JMU fans are fearful of being "left behind" and are demanding a move now no matter what. Conference re-alignment isn't over. Over the next 4-5 summers we'll see more and more moves. Things will open up for JMU eventually (as it will for other schools like App State, Georgia Southern, etc.) and those schools administrations will make a move when the timing is right. Meanwhile, Albany and Stony Brook are good adds for the CAA even if JMU won't be in the CAA 5 years from now. Rhode Island sticking around, OTOH, I am not happy about. Their program has been dreadful, their facilities are worse and there is no indication the school is willing to invest in it's athletic future.

Well said...I see URI only benefiting the conference in one way, and that is divisional set up and less travel amongst the northern schools, but from a competitive stand point, URI is far from ideal.

[danefan]

As a JMU fan I welcome Albany and Stony Brook for CAA football. Both schools have a track record of success at the FCS level already and are making the necessary facilities improvements for sustained success and growth. I'm guessing Dukes07's wishlist of FCS programs is rather short (Appalachian State). Many pro-FBS JMU fans are basically App State or bust.

I'm for a move to FBS for JMU but I'm more patient than most it seems. Most pro-FBS JMU fans are fearful of being "left behind" and are demanding a move now no matter what. Conference re-alignment isn't over. Over the next 4-5 summers we'll see more and more moves. Things will open up for JMU eventually (as it will for other schools like App State, Georgia Southern, etc.) and those schools administrations will make a move when the timing is right. Meanwhile, Albany and Stony Brook are good adds for the CAA even if JMU won't be in the CAA 5 years from now. Rhode Island sticking around, OTOH, I am not happy about. Their program has been dreadful, their facilities are worse and there is no indication the school is willing to invest in it's athletic future.

I figured that was the path he was going down.

I realize there will be some opposition to Albany. I hope other CAA fans give us a chance to ramp up scholarships before an opinion is formed. It will not be an overnight transition.

[NHwildEcat]

I figured that was the path he was going down.

I realize there will be some opposition to Albany. I hope other CAA fans give us a chance to ramp up scholarships before an opinion is formed. It will not be an overnight transition.

I don't think you will see compalints from your nothern friends in NH & Maine...we have been wanting this move for awhile now!

[jmu_duke07]

One of those "horrible" teams marched right out of Harrisonburg with a win last year. And won at App in the playoffs. So what does that make JMU? Sub-horrible, or just putrid?

To add, a broken clock is right twice a day. Maine was good last year but that doesn't mean they will be this year. There is absolutely NO consistency with the Northern teams in the CAA, with the exception to UNH. Personally, I feel the CAA is headed in the wrong direction with the addition of Albany. I'd rather add Liberty over any of the schools listed in the North. I thought for once, with the addition of Furman and Appy St, this could be a push to get ALL the northern schools OUT of the CAA. The culture up there is completely different and embarrasing to the rest of the schools that advocate building up their athletics, not letting it die like Maine and URI. JMU fans make fun of Richmond with the size of their stadium and they hold more than Albany. Like I said prior, these additions make me want to puke.

[MplsBison]

To add, a broken clock is right twice a day. Maine was good last year but that doesn't mean they will be this year. There is absolutely NO consistency with the Northern teams in the CAA, with the exception to UNH. Personally, I feel the CAA is headed in the wrong direction with the addition of Albany. I'd rather add Liberty over any of the schools listed in the North. I thought for once, with the addition of Furman and Appy St, this could be a push to get ALL the northern schools OUT of the CAA. The culture up there is completely different and embarrasing to the rest of the schools that advocate building up their athletics, not letting it die like Maine and URI. JMU fans make fun of Richmond with the size of their stadium and they hold more than Albany. Like I said prior, these additions make me want to puke.

You'll be in the big leagues soon enough.

Marshall, JMU, ODU, ECU and Charlotte will make a nice little group in the CUSA. Possibly add in App St for a pretty darn good 6-team division.

[MplsBison]

Apologies to U-Albany and CAA fans but I feel the need to respond.

HC was one of the marquee FCS programs throughout the 1980's. To deny this is to be very myopic. We won the mythical 1-AA championship in 1987, had many wins over very strong FCS programs, beat FBS programs, had a player who was 3rd in the Heisman voting, won many Lambert Cup trophies yada, yada, yada...all I'm stating is that with the return of scholarships, we have the potential to return to that level.

I don't know anything about I-AA football in the 1980's. NDSU was too busy winning a bunch of DII national championships at that time.

However, what I do know is that in the 1980's Holy Cross could offer a football scholarship to basically any high school football player in the country. My guess is that being a football player was enough to slip through the admissions department (*wink wink*), like it was at any school that wanted to have a competitive program. And there was no AI to nanny you.

[NHwildEcat]

To add, a broken clock is right twice a day. Maine was good last year but that doesn't mean they will be this year. There is absolutely NO consistency with the Northern teams in the CAA, with the exception to UNH. Personally, I feel the CAA is headed in the wrong direction with the addition of Albany. I'd rather add Liberty over any of the schools listed in the North. I thought for once, with the addition of Furman and Appy St, this could be a push to get ALL the northern schools OUT of the CAA. The culture up there is completely different and embarrasing to the rest of the schools that advocate building up their athletics, not letting it die like Maine and URI. JMU fans make fun of Richmond with the size of their stadium and they hold more than Albany. Like I said prior, these additions make me want to puke.

It's unfair to call out the northern schools as programs that don't care about athletics...the difference with the northern schools is they are no solely focused on football. Maine has a great athletics department IMO and they are competitive in most sports they participate in. Do they focus more on hockey? You bet, and that is their bread and butter. They know what they are good at and make sure to maintain that as its most important assest. Does JMU do anything other then play football? If so I wouldn't know because I have never heard nor seen them play another sport.

The one thing you will get from the northern schools is a foundation that will not jump at the next crap FBS conference that comes calling...do we really need more programs to join the CAA for 2 years and bolt? No, we don't.

As MPLS said, soon enough your time will come and then you can move on to play in some poor man's week FBS conference and play in the Popeye's Chicken Bowl or w/e...

[MplsBison]

Again....the AI today would not have eliminated the vast, vast majority of football players at HC from being admitted into HC in the 1980's...Jesus this is exhausting.

Frankly, I think you're either lying (because you know better) or you don't know any better and are just assuming.

I don't buy it. Not for a second.


Holy Cross has no name recognition in college football. There a very few gifted high school players who are also capable of making it into HC, should they have chosen to apply there, on their own. And such athletes will already be committed to the Stanford's of the upper academic, college athletic world.

I don't see how HC can just jump into such a stature from, well, nothing. You're going to continue getting the same caliber of student-athletes that you've been getting while maybe stealing a few that the Ivy normally would've gotten because you can now offer them a scholarship.

You're not going to get the athletes that can compete with the "dummies" at NDSU, Sam Houston, Montana.

[MplsBison]

It's unfair to call out the northern schools as programs that don't care about athletics...the difference with the northern schools is they are no solely focused on football. Maine has a great athletics department IMO and they are competitive in most sports they participate in. Do they focus more on hockey? You bet, and that is their bread and butter. They know what they are good at and make sure to maintain that as its most important assest. Does JMU do anything other then play football? If so I wouldn't know because I have never heard nor seen them play another sport.

The one thing you will get from the northern schools is a foundation that will not jump at the next crap FBS conference that comes calling...do we really need more programs to join the CAA for 2 years and bolt? No, we don't.

As MPLS said, soon enough your time will come and then you can move on to play in some poor man's week FBS conference and play in the Popeye's Chicken Bowl or w/e...

The I-AA national playoffs on ESPN2 or a lower-tier bowl game on ESPN or ESPN 2.

Either way, that's about the best any of our programs can live up to.

[ccd494]

The culture up there is completely different and embarrasing to the rest of the schools that advocate building up their athletics, not letting it die like Maine and URI. JMU fans make fun of Richmond with the size of their stadium and they hold more than Albany. Like I said prior, these additions make me want to puke.

http://www.goblackbears.com/sports/m-hockey/2011-12/photos/0003/crowd_shot_4_25-.jpg?max_width=450 http://www.bookstore.umaine.edu/webitemimages/411/60866507447-t.jpg

We're letting what die?

[MplsBison]

GUYS...STFU UP ABOUT THE PL IN THIS THREAD. ENOUGH!

It's straight hijacking...and you are answering a MORON (MplDOUCHE).

And thanks Rich!

Yep, if you don't stay exactly on topic in every single thread - then Jesus doesn't love you anymore.


Shove it up your a___, prick. Like it friggin' matters. Friggin' internet message board.

[NHwildEcat]

The I-AA national playoffs on ESPN2 or a lower-tier bowl game on ESPN or ESPN 2.

Either way, that's about the best any of our programs can live up to.

Sure...but I prefer to have a legit shot at a National Title...being on TV would be nice...but I can live with having to get off my *** and going to the game's in person or watching the regional coverage. Plus, most schools tend to think higher of themselves then they should or are perceived. If JMU moves up, no one will care. They will never be a national power...

[MplsBison]

Sure...but I prefer to have a legit shot at a National Title...being on TV would be nice...but I can live with having to get off my *** and going to the game's in person or watching the regional coverage. Plus, most schools tend to think higher of themselves then they should or are perceived. If JMU moves up, no one will care. They will never be a national power...

They'll never be a national power.... in the only division of college football that matters.

Being the national champion of a division that doesn't matter isn't exactly top prize.

[NHwildEcat]

They'll never be a national power.... in the only division of college football that matters.

Being the national champion of a division that doesn't matter isn't exactly top prize.

So then you don't view D2 or D3 as anything either...therefore your schools success down there was pointless.

Yes, D1 FBS is the level that gets all the glory, but I wouldn't say the other levels don't matter...there are plently of talented kids who move on from lower levels. It's about the competition, not going to a school with 30K+ people where no one knows a damn thing and they cheat the NCAA because money is the bottom line.

[jmu_duke07]

http://www.goblackbears.com/sports/m-hockey/2011-12/photos/0003/crowd_shot_4_25-.jpg?max_width=450 http://www.bookstore.umaine.edu/webitemimages/411/60866507447-t.jpg

We're letting what die?

Hockey? You're gonna go with Hockey? How many schools (percentage wise) have Hockey? You're using a sport that is a significant outlier to all of college athletics to support your argument. Congrats!

[NHwildEcat]

Hockey? You're gonna go with Hockey? How many schools (percentage wise) have Hockey? You're using a sport that is a significant outlier to all of college athletics to support your argument. Congrats!

In New England that matters most...if you don't have a hockey program up here you are nobody.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

In New England that matters most...if you don't have a hockey program up here you are nobody.

Exactly. Hockey is much bigger than football in New England and the Upper Midwest. I got a chance to see UND's hockey digs last year, Ralph Englestad Arena, the place is twice as nice as Temple's Liacouras Center!!

[ccd494]

Hockey? You're gonna go with Hockey? How many schools (percentage wise) have Hockey? You're using a sport that is a significant outlier to all of college athletics to support your argument. Congrats!

I think it's cooler to win national titles against the Big 10 and BC at a sport they care about than devote 100% of Maine's resources to FCS football. That's just me though. Sure college hockey is fairly provincial, and some of the powers are vestiges of a bygone era, but it is the highest level the NCAA offers, and some really big schools (Michigan, BC, Minnesota, etc.) take it really, really seriously.

Regardless, it doesn't detract from the fact that Maine takes the sports it takes seriously seriously enough to not be "dying" even if you don't agree that's where the athletics department should be putting its resources. It also doesn't detract from the fact that the resources Maine puts into its CAA sport is apparently enough to beat JMU. If losing to Maine embarrasses you, because you think Maine athletics/football is a joke, you should probably be able to wipe the floor with Maine every time you play them.

[jmufan]

I think it's cooler to win national titles against the Big 10 and BC at a sport they care about than devote 100% of Maine's resources to FCS football. That's just me though. Sure college hockey is fairly provincial, and some of the powers are vestiges of a bygone era, but it is the highest level the NCAA offers, and some really big schools (Michigan, BC, Minnesota, etc.) take it really, really seriously.

Regardless, it doesn't detract from the fact that Maine takes the sports it takes seriously seriously enough to not be "dying" even if you don't agree that's where the athletics department should be putting its resources. It also doesn't detract from the fact that the resources Maine puts into its CAA sport is apparently enough to beat JMU. If losing to Maine embarrasses you, because you think Maine athletics/football is a joke, you should probably be able to wipe the floor with Maine every time you play them.

Different regions have different priorities and what sport they put at the top is their decision. I like hockey and wish JMU had a NCAA sanctioned team. Would be loads of fun to watch. Right now, football is king at JMU, but it use to be basketball, then after 2004, it turned completely into a football school. Or at least that is how I see it.

[MplsBison]

So then you don't view D2 or D3 as anything either...therefore your schools success down there was pointless.

Yes, D1 FBS is the level that gets all the glory, but I wouldn't say the other levels don't matter...there are plently of talented kids who move on from lower levels. It's about the competition, not going to a school with 30K+ people where no one knows a damn thing and they cheat the NCAA because money is the bottom line.

NDSU's success in DII built the foundation for them to be successful in DI-AA, which in turn will build a foundation to be successful in DI-A (and hopefully that day comes sooner, rather than later). So most definitely not pointless.

But absolutely those DII championships don't matter to anyone on the national level. Same is true of it's I-AA championship. Ask any Big Ten fan, the I-AA championship is dismissed just as quickly as the DII champions are: those are minor league championships and they don't matter in the major league.


And by the way, I certainly realize there is talent at the DI-AA and even DII level that go on to the NFL. That's not the point, of course.

[MplsBison]

I think it's cooler to win national titles against the Big 10 and BC at a sport they care about than devote 100% of Maine's resources to FCS football. That's just me though. Sure college hockey is fairly provincial, and some of the powers are vestiges of a bygone era, but it is the highest level the NCAA offers, and some really big schools (Michigan, BC, Minnesota, etc.) take it really, really seriously.

Regardless, it doesn't detract from the fact that Maine takes the sports it takes seriously seriously enough to not be "dying" even if you don't agree that's where the athletics department should be putting its resources. It also doesn't detract from the fact that the resources Maine puts into its CAA sport is apparently enough to beat JMU. If losing to Maine embarrasses you, because you think Maine athletics/football is a joke, you should probably be able to wipe the floor with Maine every time you play them.

Can you answer my question about active roster NFL players beyond their rookie contracts from Maine's program?

I wasn't trying to troll you or hustle you, I'm generally curious to know who those players are. Thanks

[grayghost06]

NDSU's success in DII built the foundation for them to be successful in DI-AA, which in turn will build a foundation to be successful in DI-A (and hopefully that day comes sooner, rather than later). So most definitely not pointless.

But absolutely those DII championships don't matter to anyone on the national level. Same is true of it's I-AA championship. Ask any Big Ten fan, the I-AA championship is dismissed just as quickly as the DII champions are: those are minor league championships and they don't matter in the major league.


And by the way, I certainly realize there is talent at the DI-AA and even DII level that go on to the NFL. That's not the point, of course.

Perhaps, but I would exclude Michigan fans from that list. I think they have a new respect for an FCS champion

[ccd494]

Can you answer my question about active roster NFL players beyond their rookie contracts from Maine's program?

I wasn't trying to troll you or hustle you, I'm generally curious to know who those players are. Thanks

I mean, I don't have contracts right in front of me. I also have no idea how long rookie contracts run.

I'm sure Stephen Cooper must have had more than a rookie deal, he started at ILB for San Diego for four years.

Montell Owens has been with Jacksonville since 2006 and made two Pro Bowls.

Mike DeVito starts for the Jets, and has for a couple of years.

Matt Mulligan has been with the Jets for a few years.

According to Google, Jovan Belcher resigned with the Chiefs this summer, he started last year.

Brandon McGowan started for the Bears, signed as a FA with the Pats, then got hurt.

Lofa Tatupu you can choose to count as a Black Bear or not- he transferred to USC after a year.

[MplsBison]

Perhaps, but I would exclude Michigan fans from that list. I think they have a new respect for an FCS champion

Actually, not at all. Michigan fans will be the first to vehemently tell you that App St would be last in the Big Ten that year, because they wouldn't be able to pull that off week in, week out - like Big Ten teams have to do.

Not sayin' it's the truth, just sayin' what they would say.

[MplsBison]

I mean, I don't have contracts right in front of me. I also have no idea how long rookie contracts run.

I'm sure Stephen Cooper must have had more than a rookie deal, he started at ILB for San Diego for four years.

Montell Owens has been with Jacksonville since 2006 and made two Pro Bowls.

Mike DeVito starts for the Jets, and has for a couple of years.

Matt Mulligan has been with the Jets for a few years.

According to Google, Jovan Belcher resigned with the Chiefs this summer, he started last year.

Brandon McGowan started for the Bears, signed as a FA with the Pats, then got hurt.

Lofa Tatupu you can choose to count as a Black Bear or not- he transferred to USC after a year.

Thanks for the names. I believe the deal is you need 4 years in the league before you can be an unrestricted free agent. You usually don't make the big bucks until you sign that first UFA contract, less you were a high draft pick.

Stephen Cooper signed a 5 year extension with San Diego in 2006.
Montell Owens just signed a 3 year extension with Jacksonville.
Mike DeVito's contract was just restructured with Jets.
Matt Mulligan just signed 2 year deal with St Louis.
Jovan Belcher just signed 1 year deal with KC as a restricted free agent (I think because he wasn't at 4 years yet).

All these players came from Maine and all as undrafted players. That's pretty darn good!

[NHwildEcat]

NDSU's success in DII built the foundation for them to be successful in DI-AA, which in turn will build a foundation to be successful in DI-A (and hopefully that day comes sooner, rather than later). So most definitely not pointless.

But absolutely those DII championships don't matter to anyone on the national level. Same is true of it's I-AA championship. Ask any Big Ten fan, the I-AA championship is dismissed just as quickly as the DII champions are: those are minor league championships and they don't matter in the major league.


And by the way, I certainly realize there is talent at the DI-AA and even DII level that go on to the NFL. That's not the point, of course.

Well according the NCAA record books, FCS is the national title as they do not sanction the FBS (insert sponsor) made up title game...this of course will change, but still. And before you give me that whole NCAA is this and that BS remember that they are the governing body for all athletic competitions in which all of these sports have signed on for, so their word is kinda important.

[MplsBison]

Well according the NCAA record books, FCS is the national title as they do not sanction the FBS (insert sponsor) made up title game...this of course will change, but still. And before you give me that whole NCAA is this and that BS remember that they are the governing body for all athletic competitions in which all of these sports have signed on for, so their word is kinda important.

Then the NCAA Division I national champion doesn't mean anything. There, does that make you feel better?

The NCAA has **NEVER** had s___ to do with major college football. They wish they did. They never have and never will. It's always been the big conferences and the bowls. They made college football what it is today. They made the money happen. They earned the money. And they sure as heck ain't giving that money up to the NCAA or anyone else.

[NHwildEcat]

Then the NCAA Division I national champion doesn't mean anything. There, does that make you feel better?

The NCAA has **NEVER** had s___ to do with major college football. They wish they did. They never have and never will. It's always been the big conferences and the bowls. They made college football what it is today. They made the money happen. They earned the money. And they sure as heck ain't giving that money up to the NCAA or anyone else.

The NCAA has plenty fo do with major college football, ask Penn State. You make the point that no one cares about FCS on the national level...that's fine. But if ND State moves up, do you think anyone will care on a national level then? No, your games will be on ESPN3...if your cable provider even allows you to see it. ND State will still have as much relevance at the FBS level that they did when they were in D2...you do realize it right?

And I am all for schools making what they perceive to be the right decision for their football programs, but if leaving the NCAA to move to FBS is you plan go ahead- you will never have a seat at the big boy table. You will be a puppet for Big Ten schools to beat up on in September.

I wouldn't want my school moving up, it wouldn't make sense- we would be in over our heads, but we know it. How many schools are in the FBS right now who think they belong but we all know damn well they don't.

[MplsBison]

NH, I understand your point and you're not wrong. Not at all. NDSU would be the Houston Astros of the MLB, if they moved up to I-A.

My point is that it's still I-A...or it's still the major leauge. It's still bigger and more important than triple A.


If the NCAA had any power to do anything of their own accord, Penn St would've gotten the death penalty. The NCAA grabbed only as much power as Penn St authorized them to grab. It was all pre-worked out before it was public.

[CFBfan]

NH, I understand your point and you're not wrong. Not at all. NDSU would be the Houston Astros of the MLB, if they moved up to I-A.

My point is that it's still I-A...or it's still the major leauge. It's still bigger and more important than triple A.


If the NCAA had any power to do anything of their own accord, Penn St would've gotten the death penalty. The NCAA grabbed only as much power as Penn St authorized them to grab. It was all pre-worked out before it was public.

And MPLS knows this because he was at the table when they (Penn St and the NCAA) "negotiated this!!!

[Dane96]

COULD WE STOP RESPONDING TO THIS DICK!

Seriously. The moron hijacks every thread.

And yes, bison...i would meet you outside to settle this. I will personally send you a ticket to a UA game.

STOP FEEDING THE TROLL!!!

[MplsBison]

COULD WE STOP RESPONDING TO THIS DICK!

Seriously. The moron hijacks every thread.

And yes, bison...i would meet you outside to settle this. I will personally send you a ticket to a UA game.

STOP FEEDING THE TROLL!!!

You'll have to pay for my plane ticket too.

I don't have time to slog up to nowhere, upstate NY.

[CFBfan]

You'll have to pay for my plane ticket too.

I don't have time to slog up to nowhere, upstate NY.

Dane96 I will chip in for the ticket if you promise to silence the troll when he gets there!!!!!

[Steve81]

I think UMass is not playing any FCS programs going forward. Could be wrong but I saw it somewhere.We are playing Maine Sept 7, 2013. There is very little room for FCS schools and Maine is willing to play less than 200k, where UNH state they would play no FBS team for under 300k. http://ht.ly/ctuF8
http://www.mbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=34972

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Well according the NCAA record books, FCS is the national title as they do not sanction the FBS (insert sponsor) made up title game...this of course will change, but still. And before you give me that whole NCAA is this and that BS remember that they are the governing body for all athletic competitions in which all of these sports have signed on for, so their word is kinda important.

It will? That's some news if it's true. Actually, FCS will still be the national champion of record.

[DFW HOYA]

Tha CAA plans to expand.
The NEC wants to expand.
The PL claims it plans to expand.

Something's got to give.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Tha CAA plans to expand.
The NEC wants to expand.
The PL claims it plans to expand.

Something's got to give.

Technically the PL has expanded....

The league just needs to let Fordham back in the door. Their return will bring stability.