Albany to CAA?

[mainejeff]

Hockey? You're gonna go with Hockey? How many schools (percentage wise) have Hockey? You're using a sport that is a significant outlier to all of college athletics to support your argument. Congrats!

Let me know when you are in a football league with Notre Dame, BC and UConn competing for National Championships.........because that is exactly what happens in Hockey East.xthumbsupx

[Go...gate]

Frankly, I think you're either lying (because you know better) or you don't know any better and are just assuming.

I don't buy it. Not for a second.


Holy Cross has no name recognition in college football. There a very few gifted high school players who are also capable of making it into HC, should they have chosen to apply there, on their own. And such athletes will already be committed to the Stanford's of the upper academic, college athletic world.

I don't see how HC can just jump into such a stature from, well, nothing. You're going to continue getting the same caliber of student-athletes that you've been getting while maybe stealing a few that the Ivy normally would've gotten because you can now offer them a scholarship.

You're not going to get the athletes that can compete with the "dummies" at NDSU, Sam Houston, Montana.

This is just argumentative and baseless.

[Go...gate]

Technically the PL has expanded....

The league just needs to let Fordham back in the door. Their return will bring stability.

I can't help thinking this is the plan, unless some game-changing event leaves Villanova looking for a league to play football in.

[jmu_duke07]

Let me know when you are in a football league with Notre Dame, BC and UConn competing for National Championships.........because that is exactly what happens in Hockey East.xthumbsupx

Great, grand, wonderful, you and 20 other schools have hockey... and that's the extent of it's popularity. My point is, the CAA is based in Richmond where the majority of it's CAA full time members w/ football reside. With Maine and UNH ONLY being football only members, why not add more southern based schools that have an ambition to expand football rather than let it stagnate and force Maine and UNH out. JMU has already stated it's commited to the CAA due to it's regional members but if they start adding football only members residing in the Northeast then why should they stay? The CAA is giving a middle finger to the teams that have actually built CAA football to be the best FCS conference.

[mainejeff]

Great, grand, wonderful, you and 20 other schools have hockey... and that's the extent of it's popularity. My point is, the CAA is based in Richmond where the majority of it's CAA full time members w/ football reside. With Maine and UNH ONLY being football only members, why not add more southern based schools that have an ambition to expand football rather than let it stagnate and force Maine and UNH out. JMU has already stated it's commited to the CAA due to it's regional members but if they start adding football only members residing in the Northeast then why should they stay? The CAA is giving a middle finger to the teams that have actually built CAA football to be the best FCS conference.

Among those 60 other hockey schools:

Michigan
Michigan State
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Ohio State
Penn State
Notre Dame
BC
UConn

Let's see........top schools for FCS:

Appalachian State
Georgia Southern
Montana
Montana State
Delaware
JMU
Lehigh
Sam Houston

Please tell me that you see the difference.............???

[jmu_duke07]

Among those 60 other hockey schools:

Michigan
Michigan State
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Ohio State
Penn State
Notre Dame
BC
UConn

Let's see........top schools for FCS:

Appalachian State
Georgia Southern
Montana
Montana State
Delaware
JMU
Lehigh
Sam Houston

Please tell me that you see the difference.............???

You're kinda slow aren't you?

[bluehenbillk]

I'd say college lacrosse is just as big if not bigger than hockey nowadays....

[MplsBison]

This is just argumentative and baseless.

We shall see.

I will contend that even if Holy Cross had name recognition in the 1980's comparable to even...say Northwestern, that's long gone. The obscurity and AI of the PL has blown that all away and they're starting from scratch.

In the meantime, all those truly gifted young men with PL capable minds and Big Ten capable bodies have been going to schools like Stanford, Northwestern, etc.

I'm still waiting to hear a reasonable argument for why they'll start going to Holy Cross just because now they can get a bonafide, dyed-in-the-wool athletic scholarship instead of just merely a need-based grant, assuming they would've qualified for the same cash based on need. I don't see it. Holy Cross has already been getting the kids that they can get, for the most part.

They're going to have to start offering a new class of kids and hoping they can get them in past the AI, if they truly want to breakthrough in national competitiveness. Pretty much the same for every other PL school.

[MplsBison]

I can't help thinking this is the plan, unless some game-changing event leaves Villanova looking for a league to play football in.

Perhaps Fordham has got a taste of the good life, without the AI nanny-state, and isn't willing to go back?

[MplsBison]

I'd say college lacrosse is just as big if not bigger than hockey nowadays....

No Big Ten lacrosse sponsorship, yet.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

No Big Ten lacrosse sponsorship, yet.

Three Big 10 teams play the sport though - Ohio State in the ECAC, Penn State in the CAA, and Michigan just started a team last year, not sure which conference they play in for lacrosse.

[MplsBison]

I don't know why I think this, but thought Michigan had good high school lacrosse. If so, you'd think both the U and State would have varsity teams.

Minnesota high school is catching on. Hopefully U of Minn will get a varsity team(s) soon enough.

[mainejeff]

I'd say college lacrosse is just as big if not bigger than hockey nowadays....

I'd say that both are very popular niche sports. Hockey has the Big Ten......lacrosse has the ACC. New England schools for hockey and Mid-Atlantic schools for lacrosse cancel each other out. I think that hockey has more widespread popularity as recent Frozen 4 sites have been been hosted by cities all over the map. Lacrosse seems to commute between Baltimore and Foxboro.

[MplsBison]

I'd say that both are very popular niche sports. Hockey has the Big Ten......lacrosse has the ACC. New England schools for hockey and Mid-Atlantic schools for lacrosse cancel each other out. I think that hockey has more widespread popularity as recent Frozen 4 sites have been been hosted by cities all over the map. Lacrosse seems to commute between Baltimore and Foxboro.

Frozen Four is bid out, anyone can bid on hosting. If you were a manager of an arena with ice sheet capability, it's just another event and you know fans will travel for it. I don't necessarily think it means that people in Tampa are college hockey fans.

[Bogus Megapardus]

No Big Ten lacrosse sponsorship, yet.

MplsBison Knows Lacrosse.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

What's the real story about the PSAC schools? In just about every state in the country, schools like IUP, West Chester, Bloomsburg, Kutztown and maybe Shippensburg would be playing FCS football. These are all large public universities in a state with access to tons of D1 talent.

I know Lehigh played West Chester several times in the 80's and Lafayette had games with ESU and Kutztown in the early, to mid 90's. I believe they lost to one of them.

This seems like the basis for a LFN article.

[andy7171]

What's the real story about the PSAC schools? In just about every state in the country, schools like IUP, West Chester, Bloomsburg, Kutztown and maybe Shippensburg would be playing FCS football. These are all large public universities in a state with access to tons of D1 talent.

I know Lehigh played West Chester several times in the 80's and Lafayette had games with ESU and Kutztown in the early, to mid 90's. I believe they lost to one of them.

This seems like the basis for a LFN article.

I always figured it had to do with academic standards.

[State Line Liquors]

MplsBison Knows Delaware completely backstabbed the America East Conference years ago and deserves swift, sweet, revenge for it.

FIFY

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I always figured it had to do with academic standards.

I honestly don't have a clue.

A school like West Chester or IUP could easily fit into the CAA or MVFC respectively it would seem if they choose to.

[Bogus Megapardus]

What's the real story about the PSAC schools? In just about every state in the country, schools like IUP, West Chester, Bloomsburg, Kutztown and maybe Shippensburg would be playing FCS football. These are all large public universities in a state with access to tons of D1 talent.

I know Lehigh played West Chester several times in the 80's and Lafayette had games with ESU and Kutztown in the early, to mid 90's. I believe they lost to one of them.

This seems like the basis for a LFN article.

I think that they used to be DIII but they moved up so they could add scholarships. But - Pennsylvania prohibits using public funds for any athletic scholarships within the Pennsylvania State System (which does NOT include Penn State, Temple or Pitt). The PSAC public schools have to raise all scholarship money from donations and boosters.

The smaller PSAC public schools - Lock Haven in particular - have trouble raising enough to fund the 30-36 scholarships that most of the members give out. Word is that Lock Haven will have just seven scholarships this year. That's apparently why Lock Haven is in the midst of a 42 consecutive game losing streak. IUP, West Chester and UP-Cal apparently have plenty of booster money and can fully fund the scholarships.

[MplsBison]

What's the real story about the PSAC schools? In just about every state in the country, schools like IUP, West Chester, Bloomsburg, Kutztown and maybe Shippensburg would be playing FCS football. These are all large public universities in a state with access to tons of D1 talent.

I know Lehigh played West Chester several times in the 80's and Lafayette had games with ESU and Kutztown in the early, to mid 90's. I believe they lost to one of them.

This seems like the basis for a LFN article.

You think PSAC is bad...look at the WIAC!!!!

Those rat ba____ are in division III....as public schools with greater than 10k enrollments!!!!! Talk about should be banned.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I think that they used to be DIII but they moved up so they could add scholarships. But - Pennsylvania prohibits using public funds for any athletic scholarships within the Pennsylvania State System (which does NOT include Penn State, Temple or Pitt). The PSAC public schools have to raise all scholarship money from donations and boosters.

The smaller PSAC public schools - Lock Haven in particular - have trouble raising enough to fund the 30-36 scholarships that most of the members give out. Word is that Lock Haven will have just seven scholarships this year. That's apparently why Lock Haven is in the midst of a 42 consecutive game losing streak. IUP, West Chester and UP-Cal apparently have plenty of booster money and can fully fund the scholarships.

Very interesting. If a couple bump up their donations, aka spending, they would be on par with most of the NEC teams.

Lock Haven is in a tough position given their location and their academic status in the state. Mansfield faced similar hurdles and ultimately decided to close up shop 7 or 8 years ago.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Very interesting. If a couple bump up their donations, aka spending, they would be on par with most of the NEC teams.

I think that the best of the PA State teams in a given year could give NEC and PL teams a decent game. That said, we used to pound them regularly in the early years of the PL. West Chester (often one of the better PSAC teams) never came close to doing anything against Delaware even though they've played every year for several decades. Mercifully, the Delaware - West Chester series ends this year, if I understand it correctly.

I'd have to wonder about the political implications of having a "flagship" PSAC team such as IUP or UP-Cal breaking away from their colleagues and stepping up to the NEC. It would be a fine showcase for the "flagship" but it could alienate the rest of the schools in the system.

IUP is the largest of the PSAC schools at 14,638. Mercyhurst, a private school playing in the nearly-all public conference, is the smallest at 3,217. Mercyhurst won the PSAC championship in 2010.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I think that the best of the PA State teams in a given year could give NEC and PL teams a decent game. That said, we used to pound them regularly in the early years of the PL. West Chester (often one of the better PSAC teams) never came close to doing anything against Delaware even though they've played every year for several decades. Mercifully, the Delaware - West Chester series ends this year, if I understand it correctly.

I'd have to wonder about the political implications of having a "flagship" PSAC team such as IUP or UP-Cal breaking away from their colleagues and stepping up to the NEC. It would be a fine showcase for the "flagship" but it could alienate the rest of the schools in the system.

IUP is the largest of the PSAC schools at 14,638. Mercyhurst, a private school playing in the nearly-all public conference, is the smallest at 3,217. Mercyhurst won the PSAC championship in 2010.

Bloomsburg played JMU a few years ago and lost a very close game. The Huskies had a really good RB who's name escapes me.

BU, IUP and ESU each have had teams capable of beating quality FCS teams over the years.

How does Clarion's wrestling program work? Is it endowed? Or funded by some sort of booster club?

[aust42]

I think that the best of the PA State teams in a given year could give NEC and PL teams a decent game. That said, we used to pound them regularly in the early years of the PL. West Chester (often one of the better PSAC teams) never came close to doing anything against Delaware even though they've played every year for several decades. Mercifully, the Delaware - West Chester series ends this year, if I understand it correctly.

West Chester was actually very competetive with Delaware throughout the 80's and early 90's. They beat us in 1983, 1988 & 1992 and most of the games during that time period were very competetive and the close scores prove it. West Chester's Ralph Tamm and Lee Woodall were two great NFL players from that era and they would typically have players get free agent shots in the NFL. For some reason their talent level went down hill in the mid-90's compared to their past history and they became non competetive with Delaware.

[henfan]

For some reason their talent level went down hill in the mid-90's compared to their past history and they became non competetive with Delaware.

It's no mystery. The PSAC implemented a cut back on the number of max schollies for the conference to 25. I think WCUPA was operating with 18 at one point and may now be back up around the 25 max, still well below D-II maximums.

Without major institutional changes, WCUPA won't have the funding for D-I athletics. There's more to D-I reclassification than FB.

Indeed (and thankfully), UD and WCUPA end their FB series after this season.

[bluehenbillk]

Heard "confirmation" on the northern part of the new CAA tonight. Albany, Stony Brook & URI will all be in the CAA, look for an announcement before the season starts. I guess that's why URI is still eligible for the CAA crown this year & ODU isn't. Don't have any confirmation on the SoCon part of things....

[Bogus Megapardus]

Football only for each?

[Dane96]

My understanding....yes.

[DFW HOYA]

This will bring PL football expansion to a halt. And unless Fordham or Georgetown walks, the presidents won't move to do much about it anyway.

[MplsBison]

So this thread should really be titled "Albany to the CAA football conference?"

[Dane96]

Actually...this should be titled....

"MplsBison- The inside scoop on what it's like to be a nitpicking douche"

[MplsBison]

Actually...this should be titled....

"MplsBison- The inside scoop on what it's like to be a nitpicking douche"

The CAA football conference is the second best league in I-AA. This is a huge accomplishment for Albany's program. Congrats.

Albany will be playing basketball in the America East, which will earn the same single birth to the 2013 Men's bball tournament that the CAA will earn.

[Dane96]

Yep...and that 'aint a bad thing IMHO...for now.

[Sader87]

This will bring PL football expansion to a halt. And unless Fordham or Georgetown walks, the presidents won't move to do much about it anyway.

Maybe...but I still have a "gut feeling" that Villanova ultimately will join the PL for football.

Now that the league has scholarships, there really is no strong argument against joining the PL. In the final analysis, Villanova institutionally is a better fit in the PL (with other schools like Georgetown, Fordham and Holy Cross) than they are with the CAA.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

The CAA football conference is the second best league in I-AA. This is a huge accomplishment for Albany's program. Congrats.

Albany will be playing basketball in the America East, which will earn the same single birth to the 2013 Men's bball tournament that the CAA will earn.

The CAA at least has a history of earning multiple bids. The loss of ODU and VCU hurts some there, but the CAA teams tend to play a more aggressive OOC schedule than the A-East teams. Given enough OOC success there's no reason to think the CAA won't be a 2 big league this year, or regularly in the future.

As far as CAA Football goes, the MVFC had the edge last year which has carried over to preseason this year. We'll see if that lasts. Over the last ten years the CAA has had a team in the NC game 7 times, the Big Sky 4, the Gateway/MVFC 3, the SoCon 3, the Southland 2, and the PL 1. Of those teams only one to make an appearance for the CAA is no longer in the conference, the same for the MVCF (UMass and WKU).

[bluehenbillk]

I'm still waiting for a MVFC football team to at least cover the spread against Delaware. We ***-pounded our way through that Midwestern slop....

[MplsBison]

Maybe...but I still have a "gut feeling" that Villanova ultimately will join the PL for football.

Now that the league has scholarships, there really is no strong argument against joining the PL. In the final analysis, Villanova institutionally is a better fit in the PL (with other schools like Georgetown, Fordham and Holy Cross) than they are with the CAA.

There's a HUGE argument for Nova not joining the PL. There always has been and in the foreseeable future will be.

AI.

Guaranteed there were players on their national championship team that they would NOT have been able to recruit under the AI. Simple fact.

[MplsBison]

I'm still waiting for a MVFC football team to at least cover the spread against Delaware. We ***-pounded our way through that Midwestern slop....

Not anymore.

[MplsBison]

The CAA at least has a history of earning multiple bids. The loss of ODU and VCU hurts some there, but the CAA teams tend to play a more aggressive OOC schedule than the A-East teams. Given enough OOC success there's no reason to think the CAA won't be a 2 big league this year, or regularly in the future.

As far as CAA Football goes, the MVFC had the edge last year which has carried over to preseason this year. We'll see if that lasts. Over the last ten years the CAA has had a team in the NC game 7 times, the Big Sky 4, the Gateway/MVFC 3, the SoCon 3, the Southland 2, and the PL 1. Of those teams only one to make an appearance for the CAA is no longer in the conference, the same for the MVCF (UMass and WKU).

Yep, the past has been kind to the CAA and the CAA FC.

The past.

[HenZoneNation]

With all do respect...the MVC is not the strongest conference in FCS football. They had the best TEAM last year. Well earned and well fought. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. A conference strength is measured from top to bottom. Excluding GSU, who is no longer a member of the CAA, every single school in the CAA has been to the playoffs in the last three years. It looks like NDSU might become the school that finally challenges UNI as the "Big Dogs" of the MVC on a consistent basis but you need more than two schools who are consistently strong before you can make that claim. You got some teams in your conference that would get absolutely thumped in the CAA. I know you're excited, you should be...but slow down.

[MplsBison]

There is no such thing as the MVC in I-AA football.

Five teams from the MVFC deserved the playoffs last year and all would've beaten a JMU in an early round.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

There is no such thing as the MVC in I-A football.


Who said there was?

[Dane96]

HenZoneNation did...

[MplsBison]

Who said there was?

Twit.

[HenZoneNation]

If the basis of your arguement is a biased opinion of the selection process and a missed consonant then I sorely overestimated your voice in this matter. Your conference has far to many weak teams. It's very similiar to the Socon...they have some great teams, who year in and year out are very good...but they also have some very bad teams who year in and year out are not that good. As previously stated, every member of our conference has made the playoffs in the last three years. Until your conference can boast such accomplishments...it is what is. No matter what abbreviations your conference may have.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If the basis of your arguement is a biased opinion of the selection process and a missed consonant then I sorely overestimated your voice in this matter.

Wait, Mpls has a voice in the FCS landscape? xlolx

[Bogus Megapardus]

Maybe...but I still have a "gut feeling" that Villanova ultimately will join the PL for football.

Now that the league has scholarships, there really is no strong argument against joining the PL. In the final analysis, Villanova institutionally is a better fit in the PL (with other schools like Georgetown, Fordham and Holy Cross) than they are with the CAA.

Slowly but surely, Sader87, the PL honchos might actually be trying to get people warmed up to the idea. Why, for example, would the Patriot League's website recently feature this piece on Villanova's Academic Progress Rate data?

http://www.patriotleague.org/sports/w-lacros/spec-rel/062112aaa.html

It includes a quote from the Villanova AD and everything. Could it be that Villanova someday joins the PL as a full member but gets a special wavier for basketball?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It includes a quote from the Villanova AD and everything. Could it be that Villanova someday joins the PL as a full member but gets a special wavier for basketball?

As cool as that sounds, that's impossible.

[Bogus Megapardus]

As cool as that sounds, that's impossible.

Why the Villanova APR piece on the PL site, then, LFN? Doesn't it seem a little strange to you?

[DFW HOYA]

Why the Villanova APR piece on the PL site, then, LFN? Doesn't it seem a little strange to you?

Someone in the league office still thinks Villanova is an associate member in women's lacrosse.

[whitey]

Someone in the league office still thinks Villanova is an associate member in women's lacrosse.

Same article is on Villanova's site as well: http://www.villanova.com/sports/w-lacros/spec-rel/062112aaa.html

Another possibility is the same company manages online content for both the PL and Villanova and posted the article on the wrong site by accident.

[MplsBison]

If the basis of your arguement is a biased opinion of the selection process and a missed consonant then I sorely overestimated your voice in this matter. Your conference has far to many weak teams. It's very similiar to the Socon...they have some great teams, who year in and year out are very good...but they also have some very bad teams who year in and year out are not that good. As previously stated, every member of our conference has made the playoffs in the last three years. Until your conference can boast such accomplishments...it is what is. No matter what abbreviations your conference may have.

Who are the weak teams in the MVFC? MO st is basically the only team that hasn't had a reasonable amount of success in the past 5-6 years.

But alas, as I already said we're arguing about future success based on past accomplishments, which of course is complete nonsense. The MVFC showed its dominance last season and will continue to do so. CAA: no team in the semi's. Get used to it.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Someone in the league office still thinks Villanova is an associate member in women's lacrosse.

That's entirely possible. It's the only way it makes sense.

[UNH Fanboi]

Alright, from now on I am goin to invade every single Patriot League thread and talk about the CAA. This is getting really obnoxious.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Alright, from now on I am goin to invade every single Patriot League thread and talk about the CAA. This is getting really obnoxious.

I understand but it's not unreasonable to discuss the consequences of a move by Albany (and Stony Brook) to the CAA. It will have a large impact on northeastern football, the potential make up of other conferences and on future scheduling, including in the PL. I think that the impact on the Big South will be even more substantial than the impact on the NEC. It also seems to erase any notion of AE football, unless the AE creates a separate football entity and combines with CAA football for administrative purposes (CAA football itself is a separate entity from the rest of the CAA).

I think that most agree that this move is the best thing for Albany. Plus it will help solidify the the CAA in the northeast, especially if URI does an about-face. It seems to me that it would also put something a damper on talk of UNH and Maine (or even Villanova) looking for a new football home.

But by all means, you're welcome to post about the relevance of the CAA in any PL thread. Because CAA football is, after all, quite relevant to the PL (no matter what MplsBison thinks).

[Go...gate]

So it looks like all the hoo-hah about the PL boils down to this: BU is aboard for all-sports and scholarships added for football, which brings Fordham back into the football fold where they already were.

Nothing else to see see here, folks, move along....

[MplsBison]

So it looks like all the hoo-hah about the PL boils down to this: BU is aboard for all-sports and scholarships added for football, which brings Fordham back into the football fold where they already were.

Nothing else to see see here, folks, move along....

Except...does it really bring Fordham back? Because weren't they recruiting kids outside of the AI (since scholarships were allowed anyway and so they weren't eligible for the PL title...why not?) - so now that they've had a taste of the good life, why would they want to go back?

And then what about Georgetown? Scholarships...grants in aid...it doesn't really matter. They have about as much money to spend on football as a PFL school.

[DFW HOYA]

And then what about Georgetown? Scholarships...grants in aid...it doesn't really matter. They have about as much money to spend on football as a PFL school.

Georgetown spends as a low-tier NEC or mid-level Ivy program, not even close to the Pioneer.


And back to the CAA: a good move for the northern tier. Does the CAA have someone else in mind if James Madison opts out for the "eastern division WAC" proposal or a Sun Belt offer? I don't think Fordham's on the short list, but it's probably on the list.

[MplsBison]

Georgetown spends as a low-tier NEC or mid-level Ivy program, not even close to the Pioneer.


And back to the CAA: a good move for the northern tier. Does the CAA have someone else in mind if James Madison opts out for the "eastern division WAC" proposal or a Sun Belt offer? I don't think Fordham's on the short list, but it's probably on the list.

Absolutely Fordham would be on the list and they should be on the list. If I were the CAA, I'd go hard after Lehigh or Colgate as well. Get them to ditch the AI in football and really spread their wings on being nationally competitive.

There's no one else in the Mid-Atlantic to add, unless they're seriously going to try to add MEAC teams.

No SoCon football teams are leaving for the CAA FC and none of the SoCon teams that won't already be added (Davidson and CoC) will help the CAA in bball anyway, so full membership is off the table.

[MplsBison]

Georgetown spends as a low-tier NEC or mid-level Ivy program, not even close to the Pioneer.


Yet you deny the NCAA classifying the Hoya football program as providing around 20 scholarship equivalencies?

Then what are they spending it on?? How much does your head coach make? Can't be just operating expenses...

[DFW HOYA]

We can discuss that on another thread. For now, the subject is Albany and CAA expansion.

Here's a name that has never taken hold: Duquesne. They've turned it around in the NEC and recruit well in western Pennsylvania but facilities are poor and its budget ($1.8 million) is still below that of many scholarship programs.

[MplsBison]

We can discuss that on another thread. For now, the subject is Albany and CAA expansion.

Here's a name that has never taken hold: Duquesne. They've turned it around in the NEC and recruit well in western Pennsylvania but facilities are poor and its budget ($1.8 million) is still below that of many scholarship programs.

Fordham, Lehigh, Colgate.

Those should be the targets of the CAA if JMU or Delaware leave the conference.

No AI - fully competitive.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Except...does it really bring Fordham back? Because weren't they recruiting kids outside of the AI...

No.

[aceinthehole]

Does the CAA have someone else in mind if James Madison opts out for the "eastern division WAC" proposal or a Sun Belt offer? I don't think Fordham's on the short list, but it's probably on the list.

I'm hoping (and for now I'm just a wishful fan) the CAA Football "North" becomes UNH, Maine, SBU, UA, URI, and CCSU.

If the CAA only adds 1 school without football (Charleston) as a full memebr of the CAA, then the Football "South" would still remain very stong and compact - UD, 'Nova, Towson, JMU, W&M, and Richmond.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm hoping (and for now I'm just a wishful fan) the CAA Football "North" becomes UNH, Maine, SBU, UA, URI, and CCSU.

If the CAA only adds 1 school without football (Charleston) as a full memebr of the CAA, then the Football "South" would still remain very stong and compact - UD, 'Nova, Towson, JMU, W&M, and Richmond.

But with no true CAA members in the North. Something which I feel could be a big problem for the CAA.

EDIT: What if the CAA offered CCSU full membership? The basketball schools would howl, but it would help keep the balance of football teams in the CAA's favor. The only problem is that while CCSU has great ambitions, they don't seem like a CAA school right here, right now.

[MplsBison]

I'm hoping (and for now I'm just a wishful fan) the CAA Football "North" becomes UNH, Maine, SBU, UA, URI, and CCSU.

If the CAA only adds 1 school without football (Charleston) as a full memebr of the CAA, then the Football "South" would still remain very stong and compact - UD, 'Nova, Towson, JMU, W&M, and Richmond.

But if JMU or Delaware leave....then you've basically just got W&M, Richmond and Nova hanging out there with Towson.

Does CAA go after the PL or do they wait for the PL to go after those first three?

[aceinthehole]

But with no true CAA members in the North. Something which I feel could be a big problem for the CAA.

EDIT: What if the CAA offered CCSU full membership? The basketball schools would howl, but it would help keep the balance of football teams in the CAA's favor. The only problem is that while CCSU has great ambitions, they don't seem like a CAA school right here, right now.

Never going to happen. CCSU would be way down on the CAA's pecking order for all sports - the conference landscape as we know it would have to implode for it to be a possiblity.

CAA Football is much more realistic, but is still probably only a "Plan B" option. CCSU does fits the North footprint perfectly and has the ability/interest for full scholly FCS football. Packaged with with the 5 other NE/NY public FCS teams, CCSU could be a solid addition for football.

[aceinthehole]

But if JMU or Delaware leave....then you've basically just got W&M, Richmond and Nova hanging out there with Towson.

Does CAA go after the PL or do they wait for the PL to go after those first three?

I think it is pretty clear, JMU and UD aren't going anywhere for a while.

CAA Football is seprrate from the CAA, so IMO this issue of what conference has the most members playing football is a moot point. The CAA will continue to administer the football side for a while, and the interests of the football teams do not match up with those of the "regular" CAA memebership.

I think we are finally seeing some appeasemnt of the CAA "North" members, as shown by the rumors of adding UA and SBU and attempts to get URI back. Just speculating (and hoping), but CCSU might just be another piece to keep that "North" package stable and in the fold.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Never going to happen. CCSU would be way down on the CAA's pecking order for all sports - the conference landscape as we know it would have to implode for it to be a possiblity.

CAA Football is much more realistic, but is still probably only a "Plan B" option. CCSU does fits the North footprint perfectly and has the ability/interest for full scholly FCS football. Packaged with with the 5 other NE/NY public FCS teams, CCSU could be a solid addition for football.

All, of course, valid points. But there are some big questions remaining:

1. Can you really have a CAA Northern division with no CAA members in it?
2. How bad does the CAA want to sponsor the Yankee Conference?

I can see a scenario where the answers are 1. No and 2. Yes, in which case the CAA needs some all-conference member up north to complement Hofstra and Northeastern in non-football and UNH and Maine in football. And there aren't a lot of those schools in the Northeast. CCSU, or potentially as a dark horse Bryant, are the only two real possibilities.

[mainejeff]

This talk of JMU going "somewhere" is funny.

NO ONE WANTS JMU RIGHT NOW.......PERIOD. They can build the biggest and best stadium in the country......it doesn't change their location, market size, endowment, etc, etc. Sorry.:(

xcoffeex

[whitey]

This talk of JMU going "somewhere" is funny.

NO ONE WANTS JMU RIGHT NOW.......PERIOD. They can build the biggest and best stadium in the country......it doesn't change their location, market size, endowment, etc, etc. Sorry.:(

xcoffeex

Don't like Jeff's tone but he is correct. JMU won't get so much as a sniff just like Appalachian State hasn't gotten much more than a sniff. The WAC-East has probably about a 0.00001% chance of coming together. Sunbelt isn't looking to expand. C-USA is done for now. Same with the MAC. It's going to take more movements and more trickle down before FCS teams in smaller markets get a real look.

[MplsBison]

I think it is pretty clear, JMU and UD aren't going anywhere for a while.

CAA Football is seprrate from the CAA, so IMO this issue of what conference has the most members playing football is a moot point. The CAA will continue to administer the football side for a while, and the interests of the football teams do not match up with those of the "regular" CAA memebership.

I think we are finally seeing some appeasemnt of the CAA "North" members, as shown by the rumors of adding UA and SBU and attempts to get URI back. Just speculating (and hoping), but CCSU might just be another piece to keep that "North" package stable and in the fold.

Yes, AE football is alive and kicking.

As of right now, JMU and UD aren't going anywhere. This thing ain't over yet...

[MplsBison]

Don't like Jeff's tone but he is correct. JMU won't get so much as a sniff just like Appalachian State hasn't gotten much more than a sniff. The WAC-East has probably about a 0.00001% chance of coming together. Sunbelt isn't looking to expand. C-USA is done for now. Same with the MAC. It's going to take more movements and more trickle down before FCS teams in smaller markets get a real look.

Correct.

It's just foolish to assume that there can't be any more major movement even in late summer early fall! It's a simple matter of if the Big XII wants to take more teams. Florida St moving to the Big XII alone creats a wave that could re-open the CUSA.

I still think Marshall, ECU, ODU, Charlotte, ASU and JMU make a nice little cluster of football programs.

[mainejeff]

Don't like Jeff's tone but he is correct. JMU won't get so much as a sniff just like Appalachian State hasn't gotten much more than a sniff. The WAC-East has probably about a 0.00001% chance of coming together. Sunbelt isn't looking to expand. C-USA is done for now. Same with the MAC. It's going to take more movements and more trickle down before FCS teams in smaller markets get a real look.

I've never liked the "tone" of most JMU fans either. Just sayin'......

xpeacexxcoffeex

[aceinthehole]

All, of course, valid points. But there are some big questions remaining:

1. Can you really have a CAA Northern division with no CAA members in it?
2. How bad does the CAA want to sponsor the Yankee Conference?

1. Yes. This FCS conference (Yankee/A-10/CAA) has been its own thing for years. It has always been the same product (Northeast/Mid-Atlantic I-AA/FCS football), just re-branded a few times under different conference management.

2. Enough. There just aren't enough teams in the A-10, CAA, or the AE to sponsor FCS football r its own without affiliates. I'm sure some in the CAA would prefer to have all its members sponsor football, but that just isn't practical. As it has been said multiple times, the AE and A-10 have zero interest in sponsoring/administering FCS football. Even if the AE gained an 5-4 advantge in football membership (assuming CCSU was added and also joins the AE), I don't think it changes CAA Football one little bit.

[mainejeff]

I still think Marshall, ECU, ODU, Charlotte, ASU and JMU make a nice little cluster of football programs.

Absolutely. That could be a great regional FBS league much like the MAC. There's room for it.......just gonna take a while to get there.

[MplsBison]

1. Yes. This FCS conference (Yankee/A-10/CAA) has been its own thing for years. It has always been the same product (Northeast/Mid-Atlantic I-AA/FCS football), just re-branded a few times under different conference management.

2. Enough. There just aren't enough teams in the A-10, CAA, or the AE to sponsor FCS football r its own without affiliates. I'm sure some in the CAA would prefer to have all its members sponsor football, but that just isn't practical. As it has been said multiple times, the AE and A-10 have zero interest in sponsoring/administering FCS football. Even if the AE gained an 5-4 advantge in football membership (assuming CCSU was added and also joins the AE), I don't think it changes CAA Football one little bit.

Out of curiosity...why is the AE so against it?

What if they get new leadership in there?

[MplsBison]

Absolutely. That could be a great regional FBS league much like the MAC. There's room for it.......just gonna take a while to get there.

I was thinking as a division in the CUSA.

[aceinthehole]

Out of curiosity...why is the AE so against it?

What if they get new leadership in there?

Simple, just has never been a priority of the league. It was formed as a basketball league to begin with. Plus the majority of members had hockey to worry about. The way the situation unfolded - the independent Yankee Conference affiliating with the A-10 made the most sense at the time. When the CAA was weakened with defections, they used the football charter as a way to stabilize their conference, and you could argue that was the perfect opportunity for the AE to administer football.

That ship has since sailed and even with new blood (UA & SBU), the AE doesn't have the critical mass to sponsor football as their own. The status quo - a separately chartered football league administered by the CAA works for everyone. The CAA patch doesn’t hurt the AE, A-10, or Big East “affiliates” in any way. There is just no significant advantage to try to bring it under the AE banner and “rebrand” the same product for a third time.

[mainejeff]

I was thinking as a division in the CUSA.

Or that.......

[MplsBison]

Simple, just has never been a priority of the league. It was formed as a basketball league to begin with. Plus the majority of members had hockey to worry about. The way the situation unfolded - the independent Yankee Conference affiliating with the A-10 made the most sense at the time. When the CAA was weakened with defections, they used the football charter as a way to stabilize their conference, and you could argue that was the perfect opportunity for the AE to administer football.

That ship has since sailed and even with new blood (UA & SBU), the AE doesn't have the critical mass to sponsor football as their own. The status quo - a separately chartered football league administered by the CAA works for everyone. The CAA patch doesn’t hurt the AE, A-10, or Big East “affiliates” in any way. There is just no significant advantage to try to bring it under the AE banner and “rebrand” the same product for a third time.

I believe you.

I was asking why didn't the AE try to sponsor football when the CAA was on the verge of death. Why did they allow Delaware, Towson and Hofstra (and Drexel) to defect over by not attempting to gain the Yankee conference administration themselves?

[aceinthehole]

I believe you.

I was asking why didn't the AE try to sponsor football when the CAA was on the verge of death. Why did they allow Delaware, Towson and Hofstra (and Drexel) to defect over by not attempting to gain the Yankee conference administration themselves?

Internal conference politics, I guess. Bottom line, but it is too late to cry over spilled milk. The football league has it own charter, history, purpose and identity that is entirely independent of the basketball conference landscape. IMO, they will rebuild CAA Football without much regard to the basketball side of the CAA, which is why I have some limited hope that CCSU might be included.

Until the CAA announces otherwise, since 1997, the YC/A-10/CAA has added just 4 members, of which only 1 (Towson) will be a member for the 2013 season.

+ Hofstra (2001)
+ Towson (2004)
+ Old Dominion (2011)
+ Georgia State (2012)

During that same period, unless the CAA announces otherwise, the YC/A-10/CAA will have lost a total 8 members:

- Boston University (1997)
- UConn (1999)
- Northeastern (2009)
- Hofstra (2009)
- UMass (2011)
- Rhode Island (2012)
- Old Dominion (2012)
- Georgia State (2012)

If they keep URI in the fold, then adding Albany, Stony Brook, and CCSU would be well within the interest of the football league.