GaSo staying in FCS, Southern Conference for now

[76ers]

This is a prime example of what happens when your President makes a knee-jerk reaction to another school's (GSU) move to play big boy football. He essentially wrote a check his arse couldn't cash. Now Statesboro is in meltdown mode.

http://media.morristechnology.com/upload/statesboro_herald/paperpdfs/3305/paper_pg_008.pdf

http://media.morristechnology.com/upload/statesboro_herald/paperpdfs/3305/paper_pg_011.pdf

[CID1990]

The ironic thing is that 5 years after GaState has been in FBS, more than half the SoCon will be able to beat them consistently.

[whitey]

Many JMU fans have been extremely annoyed that JMU's administration has not really made their FBS intentions known like App State, Liberty and Georgia Southern. This is further evidence of why it's sometimes best to keep these things internal.

[ninerID]

Appalachian fan to turn this into a positive for their FBS aspirations in 3..... 2.... 1....

[whitey]

Appalachian fan to turn this into a positive for their FBS aspirations in 3..... 2.... 1....

I don't know how anyone could. The article basically states:
- Sunbelt turned down Georgia Southern and said they were not looking at expanding.
- Confirms the WAC is essentially all but dead.
- Confirms C-USA was only looking at large markets.

As a JMU fan that basically leaves the MAC as the only option now for JMU, Appalachian State, Georgia Southern, Liberty, etc. etc. That is, until the next round of conference shakeups.

[GlassOnion]

If the Sun Belt is going to expand, its going to be after the top conferences finish, or at least give some indication of how the landscape will end up. Then it will be a matter of finding 2 schools, not one, to add. This has nothing to do with App, App hasnt even begun to pursue a Sun Belt spot.

[Saint3333]

Actually it does, I have to think that if GSU had the funding and facilities App does the Sun Belt may have been interested in expanding to 12. We have held discussions with various conferences including the Sun Belt officials.

There isn't good news for App's FBS hopes until the Big East or CUSA adds a new member.

[lionsrking2]

The ironic thing is that 5 years after GaState has been in FBS, more than half the SoCon will be able to beat them consistently.

I agree with this.

[GlassOnion]

Well, obviously GSU would have filled 1 slot out of two necassary additions, but this isnt the Sun Belt saying "We dont want App." Charlie Cobb in 5 or 6 months never mentioned the Belt as a possible destination until about a month ago, and that just in passing. GSU could just as easily be stuck in FCS because App hasnt consented to fill that 2nd slot, because Cobb is still all-in on Cusa, wich I think is dumb, because App would still smear Uncc and would be almost immediately competative with ECU as a Sun Belt member.

App and GSU are two separate entities, despite what some forlorn and teamless UNC-Charlotte fan wants to believe.

[Apphole]

Well, obviously GSU would have filled 1 slot out of two necassary additions, but this isnt the Sun Belt saying "We dont want App." Charlie Cobb in 5 or 6 months never mentioned the Belt as a possible destination until about a month ago, and that just in passing. GSU could just as easily be stuck in FCS because App hasnt consented to fill that 2nd slot, because Cobb is still all-in on Cusa, wich I think is dumb, because App would still smear Uncc and would be almost immediately competative with ECU as a Sun Belt member.

App and GSU are two separate entities, despite what some forlorn and teamless UNC-Charlotte fan wants to believe.

+1

[SpiritCymbal]

I wouldn't read too much into it. There was never a serious attempt at I-A football by GSU Administration. All of the hullabaloo back in April was simply a ploy to raise funds for the new football building. There were many of us that were bamboozled by the administration and thought things were finally going to move forward. We were all hoodwinked and are now smarter for it.

This has and will continue to have serious negative results in terms of GSU's financial future. There ZERO confidence and trust in our AD. The next time GSU has a serious need for finances, good luck even getting a return phone call from fans, boosters and alumni as a result of this betrayal.

(Awesome that i got to use "hullabaloo", "bamboozled" and "hoodwinked" all in the same post! hahaha)

[TheRevSFA]

Unless Boone becomes a major market, I can see them getting passed over for teams who have done less but are in a bigger market.

Pretty sad

[Eaglesrus]

I wouldn't read too much into it. There was never a serious attempt at I-A football by GSU Administration. All of the hullabaloo back in April was simply a ploy to raise funds for the new football building. There were many of us that were bamboozled by the administration and thought things were finally going to move forward. We were all hoodwinked and are now smarter for it.

This has and will continue to have serious negative results in terms of GSU's financial future. There ZERO confidence and trust in our AD. The next time GSU has a serious need for finances, good luck even getting a return phone call from fans, boosters and alumni as a result of this betrayal.

(Awesome that i got to use "hullabaloo", "bamboozled" and "hoodwinked" all in the same post! hahaha)

I agree with your statement about our AD, would say that you may be correct about some other things, such as "will continue to have serious negative results in terms of GSU's financial future", but disagree with pretty much all of your first paragraph. Just thought I'd mention it so that others would know that your view isn't unanimous.

[Apphole]

Unless Boone becomes a major market, I can see them getting passed over for teams who have done less but are in a bigger market.

Pretty sad

You can see that because it happened several times in May. We'll get there. There's only so many newco JUCO trade schools in major cities. Next realignment round either CUSA will have to "settle" for a powerhouse with a little more of a spread out fan base than they would like or Cobb is going to "settle" for the SunBelt.

[blueballs]

This really isn't surprising... it is all about money, always has been, always will be.

I have alternated between deriving great entertainment and shaking my head in disgust from reading the GSUFANS forums this off season where a lot of posters who have never given dime one to the program are the strongest advocates of "big time" football, often chiding FCS in the process. It really is comical to read the stunning amount of ignorance on display.

What all the recent events have told us is this: If you aren't a major state flagship institution and/or you aren't in a major media market and/or you aren't flush with cash, a successful move to FBS ain't happnin.'

[major095]

The ironic thing is that 5 years after GaState has been in FBS, more than half the SoCon will be able to beat them consistently.
But if anyone in the socon is going to beat them, they'll have to do it in Atlanta. a benefit of being fbs.


I don't know how anyone could. The article basically states:
- Sunbelt turned down Georgia Southern and said they were not looking at expanding.
- Confirms the WAC is essentially all but dead.
- Confirms C-USA was only looking at large markets.

As a JMU fan that basically leaves the MAC as the only option now for JMU, Appalachian State, Georgia Southern, Liberty, etc. etc. That is, until the next round of conference shakeups.

The wac needs to be reborn as a new conference in the mid-south. that's where the schools that aspire to move up are located. what needs to occur for that to happen?

[cbarrier90]

But if anyone in the socon is going to beat them, they'll have to do it in Atlanta. a benefit of being fbs.

Because it's sooooo difficult to get a win in the Georgia Dome...

[Saint3333]

GA St. Will not be able to afford the top FCS programs coming to their place. That on top of the risk will prevent a proven FCS program getting the chance.

[Tuscon]

GA St. Will not be able to afford the top FCS programs coming to their place. That on top of the risk will prevent a proven FCS program getting the chance.

This. Some quality FCS programs will play us this year, but probably not for a long while after. I'm not really too sure why we were even brought up in this conversation though. And for smack too. No one on here knows how the SoCon would fare against the Panthers in 5 years and we have no way of finding out. Why even bring it up?

[I-16Bandit]

This. Some quality FCS programs will play us this year, but probably not for a long while after. I'm not really too sure why we were even brought up in this conversation though. And for smack too. No one on here knows how the SoCon would fare against the Panthers in 5 years and we have no way of finding out. Why even bring it up?

To be fair, this entire thread seems to have been started as a jab at Georgia Southern. The OP could have worded his post better.

[Tuscon]

To be fair, this entire thread seems to have been started as a jab at Georgia Southern. The OP could have worded his post better.

Ahhh... I didn't see that it was a Georgia State fan that started the thread. My b. Still, there was a little bit of a jab in the original post, but it was fairly accurate. Your AD made a knee jerk, public reaction to all the movement and speculation going on full well knowing nothing was going to come of it. The article makes it pretty clear that there weren't any real "talks." It was just your AD being like, "Hey, what are your thoughts of GS in the SBC?" "No."

[I-16Bandit]

Ahhh... I didn't see that it was a Georgia State fan that started the thread. My b. Still, there was a little bit of a jab in the original post, but it was fairly accurate. Your AD made a knee jerk, public reaction to all the movement and speculation going on full well knowing nothing was going to come of it. The article makes it pretty clear that there weren't any real "talks." It was just your AD being like, "Hey, what are your thoughts of GS in the SBC?" "No."

I'm not saying the subject matter isn't anything but accurate. Not really much to say about that.. It's all there in the link. I've tried to keep my personal thoughts on Georgia Southern and moving up off the internet. Too much pointless arguing that can be had.

[Baghdad Yosef]

Well, obviously GSU would have filled 1 slot out of two necassary additions, but this isnt the Sun Belt saying "We dont want App." Charlie Cobb in 5 or 6 months never mentioned the Belt as a possible destination until about a month ago, and that just in passing. GSU could just as easily be stuck in FCS because App hasnt consented to fill that 2nd slot, because Cobb is still all-in on Cusa, wich I think is dumb, because App would still smear Uncc and would be almost immediately competative with ECU as a Sun Belt member.

App and GSU are two separate entities, despite what some forlorn and teamless UNC-Charlotte fan wants to believe.

This! They do not even have a team I tell you!

And the team that they do not have, has no FCS conference home in 2015, and we do! (throws shoe)

[TheBisonator]

What all the recent events have told us is this: If you aren't a major state flagship institution and/or you aren't in a major media market and/or you aren't flush with cash, a successful move to FBS ain't happnin.'

So I was thinking: What does that make NDSU??

1) Co-Flagship, but of one of the smallest states in the Union

2) Located in a metro area of 215,000

3) We have resources, but we don't have Benjamins coming out of our arse.

Maybe it might not work right now, hopefully in the future.

[TheRevSFA]

So I was thinking: What does that make NDSU??

1) Co-Flagship, but of one of the smallest states in the Union

2) Located in a metro area of 215,000

3) We have resources, but we don't have Benjamins coming out of our arse.

Maybe it might not work right now, hopefully in the future.

It makes you an outlier

[CRAZY_DANE]

This leaves Albany and Stony Brook in great shape.

1) SUNY is the largest state university in the country. Bigger than California.
2) Both are SUNY Centers (Flagships)
3) Both are huge markets. Albany is 57th in the country and there are NO pro teams or FBS competitiion. 57th largest market is just a few spots behind New Orleans and Buffalo. Suffolk may be even larger.
4) The state has funded the two schools. $18m in state dollars for UAs stadium, $22m to SBU's stadium. That is just the start of a very long list. Billions between the two schools. See Albany Nano @ $14 Billion pub/private
5) Huge potential growth. NY only 'discovered' the power of a state flagship a few years ago.

[realgsu]

The ironic thing is that 5 years after GaState has been in FBS, more than half the SoCon will be able to beat them consistently.

Hey is Shannon Falkner still on your O Line? She was a stud!

[CID1990]

Hey is Shannon Falkner still on your O Line? She was a stud!

Her Johnson was surely larger than anything the GaSt football team has ever seen.

[realgsu]

Her Johnson was surely larger than anything the GaSt football team has ever seen.

Because if they know anything at the Citadel, it would be Johnsons.

[seantaylor]

I wouldn't read too much into it. There was never a serious attempt at I-A football by GSU Administration. All of the hullabaloo back in April was simply a ploy to raise funds for the new football building. There were many of us that were bamboozled by the administration and thought things were finally going to move forward. We were all hoodwinked and are now smarter for it.

This has and will continue to have serious negative results in terms of GSU's financial future. There ZERO confidence and trust in our AD. The next time GSU has a serious need for finances, good luck even getting a return phone call from fans, boosters and alumni as a result of this betrayal.

(Awesome that i got to use "hullabaloo", "bamboozled" and "hoodwinked" all in the same post! hahaha)

Yep. Our president is just as big a charlatan, despite what some of these rubes tell you.

[FormerPokeCenter]

There's only so many newco JUCO trade schools in major cities.

L-O-Effin-L....spot on ;)

[TheRevSFA]

There's only so many newco JUCO trade schools in major cities.

UNF and FGCU..you're on the clock!

[BisonBacker]

This really isn't surprising... it is all about money, always has been, always will be.

I have alternated between deriving great entertainment and shaking my head in disgust from reading the GSUFANS forums this off season where a lot of posters who have never given dime one to the program are the strongest advocates of "big time" football, often chiding FCS in the process. It really is comical to read the stunning amount of ignorance on display.

What all the recent events have told us is this: If you aren't a major state flagship institution and you aren't in a major media market and you aren't flush with cash, a successful move to FBS ain't happnin.'

I agree with this comment and I've edited it just a wee bit to what the reality of it all is.

[cbarrier90]

I agree with this comment and I've edited it just a wee bit to what the reality of it all is.

I disagree. It's not about asking whether or not the school will be successful because of their situation. FBS conferences no longer care what your record is as long as they get a piece of your market. The reality is not that a move to FBS will be successful (terms of "success" defined differently by each FBS institution,) but that schools not within those parameters set by blueballs won't even get their chance at the next level.

[PaladinFan]

Time to move on. Weekly we get a new report telling us what we already know.

[CID1990]

Because if they know anything at the Citadel, it would be Johnsons.

Do yourself a favor and don't poll the membership on how funny you are.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

So I was thinking: What does that make NDSU??

1) Co-Flagship, but of one of the smallest states in the Union

2) Located in a metro area of 215,000

3) We have resources, but we don't have Benjamins coming out of our arse.

Maybe it might not work right now, hopefully in the future.


It makes you an outlier

Rev's correct. I've said all along that the Montana's, Dakota's, Wyoming, Idaho's, New Mexico's, etc. gain nothing by being FBS. Those schools don't have in-state BCS rivals to compete with for market share.

The northeastern schools have huge markets, but that market pays more attention to pro sports with the exception of Penn State.

The argument for conferences like the Sunbelt, MAC, and CUSA is that they yield more exposure and revenue than FCS. I still think there's room for another 10-12 team FBS Conference in the east with Delaware, Liberty, JMU, Jax St., App St., Ga Southern, Chattanooga with EKU, Coastal Carolina and a few others riding coattails in. The problem with that has always been the 5 year probationary period.


The bigger "problem" for all of us is our ever-increasing marginalization at the hands of ESPN, NCAA, and the Big Boys. It's hard enough for FCS and lower-tier FBS schools in the east to grow market-share without being squeezed out by the PTB so they can get another half point in TV Ratings.

[BisonBacker]

I disagree. It's not about asking whether or not the school will be successful because of their situation. FBS conferences no longer care what your record is as long as they get a piece of your market. The reality is not that a move to FBS will be successful (terms of "success" defined differently by each FBS institution,) but that schools not within those parameters set by blueballs won't even get their chance at the next level.

That's fine keep fooling yourself. I don't see really what difference it makes anyway. Truth is the big boys have already made it clear that outside of the big conferences and schools such as Michigan, Texas ect. nobody like Boise State or App State if you had made the move is going to get a chance to sniff it (a playoff and National Championship) EVER. Sure if the goal is like others have said to play in a bowl and if you think that will gain you anymore notoriety than you currently get in FCS knock yourself out. But you would only be fooling yourself. Boise State is the poster boy of getting the shaft from the Big boys at the FBS level. If you want to try to take their place feel free to spend a ton of cash for no real return on investment. At least at the FCS level we get a playoff system that is inclusive. Cue comments from the PL fans.

[asumike83]

Sure if the goal is like others have said to play in a bowl and if you think that will gain you anymore notoriety than you currently get in FCS knock yourself out. But you would only be fooling yourself. Boise State is the poster boy of getting the shaft from the Big boys at the FBS level. If you want to try to take their place feel free to spend a ton of cash for no real return on investment.

Boise is not a team I'd use as an argument against going FBS. Yes, they've gotten the shaft in terms of playing for national championships. However, I think we can all agree that they have gotten more revenue and national attention than they ever would have gotten without going FBS. I know they are more the exception than the rule but they have gotten an excellent return on their investment in FBS football.

If anyone touts an FCS to FBS move as an opportunity to play for a national championship then they are kidding themselves. Stating that it gives the opportunity for more recognition is accurate, though not all schools who make the jump end up reaping those benefits.

[EKU-n-GSU]

Rev's correct. I've said all along that the Montana's, Dakota's, Wyoming, Idaho's, New Mexico's, etc. gain nothing by being FBS. Those schools don't have in-state BCS rivals to compete with for market share.

The northeastern schools have huge markets, but that market pays more attention to pro sports with the exception of Penn State.

The argument for conferences like the Sunbelt, MAC, and CUSA is that they yield more exposure and revenue than FCS. I still think there's room for another 10-12 team FBS Conference in the east with Delaware, Liberty, JMU, Jax St., App St., Ga Southern, Chattanooga with EKU, Coastal Carolina and a few others riding coattails in. The problem with that has always been the 5 year probationary period.


The bigger "problem" for all of us is our ever-increasing marginalization at the hands of ESPN, NCAA, and the Big Boys. It's hard enough for FCS and lower-tier FBS schools in the east to grow market-share without being squeezed out by the PTB so they can get another half point in TV Ratings.

Precisely why these schools should forget trying to 'fit in' to an existing conference and form their own at the FBS level. With the WAC ready to implode upon itself, I see an opportunity for the top-tier FCS programs to create their own FBS conference. Traveling up and down the eastern seaboard and into the midwest isn't too difficult considering +70% of the US population lives east of the Mississippi river and is within an hour's flight from Memphis (just using Memphis as a geographical reference point). I'd bet there would be a significant fan base for those 10-12 top tier FCS teams that would drive contracts with ESPN and regional TV, so the revenue would come. Better recruiting, better visibility, better TV contracts, eventually the opportunity to play for the national championship would surface.

[BisonBacker]

Boise is not a team I'd use as an argument against going FBS. Yes, they've gotten the shaft in terms of playing for national championships. However, I think we can all agree that they have gotten more revenue and national attention than they ever would have gotten without going FBS. I know they are more the exception than the rule but they have gotten an excellent return on their investment in FBS football.

If anyone touts an FCS to FBS move as an opportunity to play for a national championship then they are kidding themselves. Stating that it gives the opportunity for more recognition is accurate, though not all schools who make the jump end up reaping those benefits.

Obviously I didn't articulate very well my point about Boise. My point was only to say that Boise has done everything they can and still haven't nor will they ever get a sniff of a true playoff/National Championship. The return on investment I wouldn't be so sure to say they have come out smelling like a rose on that either. But that's another debate entirely. And yes you are correct that Boise is the exception to the rule. If your schools administration feels the recognition is that much better just because they have the FBS rather than FCS argument in football is "IN My OPINION" very misguided thinking. It doesn't matter anyway what I or you think, each schools administration has to do what they think (right or wrong) is best for them. Only time will tell but I believe the added expense is going to make it extremely difficult to justify just so fans can feel better that they are "FBS"

[asumike83]

Obviously I didn't articulate very well my point about Boise. My point was only to say that Boise has done everything they can and still haven't nor will they ever get a sniff of a true playoff/National Championship. The return on investment I wouldn't be so sure to say they have come out smelling like a rose on that either. But that's another debate entirely. And yes you are correct that Boise is the exception to the rule. If your schools administration feels the recognition is that much better just because they have the FBS rather than FCS argument in football is "IN My OPINION" very misguided thinking. It doesn't matter anyway what I or you think, each schools administration has to do what they think (right or wrong) is best for them. Only time will tell but I believe the added expense is going to make it extremely difficult to justify just so fans can feel better that they are "FBS"

Just my opinion but I don't think that being FBS in itself automatically gets you better recognition. What it does is give you the opportunity to schedule better non-conference competition, play in bowl games that get more viewers than the FCS and get more regular season games televised. This year is a prime example: we play Montana in one of the biggest non-conference FCS match-ups in recent history and it is only available on ESPN's pay-per-view and online. The week before we play East Carolina, a mid-level FBS program, and it is televised regionally. AppMan made a comparison the other day that made a lot of sense. A university is like a corporation and athletics are like the marketing department that gets your name out there. It may run a deficit or only make very little but it is the cost of doing business. FBS does provide the opportunity to get your name out there more consistently.

[BisonBacker]

Precisely why these schools should forget trying to 'fit in' to an existing conference and form their own at the FBS level. With the WAC ready to implode upon itself, I see an opportunity for the top-tier FCS programs to create their own FBS conference. Traveling up and down the eastern seaboard and into the midwest isn't too difficult considering +70% of the US population lives east of the Mississippi river and is within an hour's flight from Memphis (just using Memphis as a geographical reference point). I'd bet there would be a significant fan base for those 10-12 top tier FCS teams that would drive contracts with ESPN and regional TV, so the revenue would come. Better recruiting, better visibility, better TV contracts, eventually the opportunity to play for the national championship would surface.

This would be an interesting conference no doubt but the biggest problem I can see with this is for the fans. Right now and this is especially true moreso for the east coast schools travel to away games is at least a reality and many do travel. But if a conference was to be formed like you are saying that would preclude travel for fans to get to those away games or at least most fans anyway. Not to mention you lose many regional rivalries, I suppose you could have those be OOC games???

[BisonBacker]

Just my opinion but I don't think that being FBS in itself automatically gets you better recognition. What it does is give you the opportunity to schedule better non-conference competition, play in bowl games that get more viewers than the FCS and get more regular season games televised. This year is a prime example: we play Montana in one of the biggest non-conference FCS match-ups in recent history and it is only available on ESPN's pay-per-view and online. The week before we play East Carolina, a mid-level FBS program, and it is televised regionally. AppMan made a comparison the other day that made a lot of sense. A university is like a corporation and athletics are like the marketing department that gets your name out there. It may run a deficit or only make very little but it is the cost of doing business. FBS does provide the opportunity to get your name out there more consistently.
Re-Alignment or Moving up whatever you want to call it isn't something that I'm completely against don't get me wrong. I'm just saying for some who do it thinking only that they are going to be more recognizable or become a household name like Penn State or Michigan (insert any big name school here) you are fooling yourself. Again my opinion is that it should be done to stay with peer institutions. It can be argued that we are not all playing our peer schools at this level but to me the biggest drawback is the lack pf a playoff system. I think in a matter of years there is obviously going to be a shakeup again of conferences but it doesn't change the fact that they way the big boys have set it up anyone outside of the major BCS conferences is F'd. I personally would rather keep a true playoff format and play for a championship as opposed to an obsolete bowl game that you may think may garner you more attention but in reality outside of the two schools playing is said bowl game virtually nobody else cares about it. Nothing new here that hasn't been discussed to death already I guess. I just wish outside of the big conferences there was another level that currently is called FBS for schools who are in the smaller conferences like the MAC ect where they could play in a playoff format rather than a bowl setup. I'm not a fan of Bowls. I'd rather see a true playoff format.

[EKU-n-GSU]

This would be an interesting conference no doubt but the biggest problem I can see with this is for the fans. Right now and this is especially true moreso for the east coast schools travel to away games is at least a reality and many do travel. But if a conference was to be formed like you are saying that would preclude travel for fans to get to those away games or at least most fans anyway. Not to mention you lose many regional rivalries, I suppose you could have those be OOC games???

Considering that most FBS schools play a 12-game season and 7-8 conference games, there's still plenty of schedule room for regional rivalries. As far as fan travel, I know the GSU fans travel well, and assume that App, NDSU, SHSU, and others do as well. I think there would still be opportunities for regional sub-conferences which would limit travel expense for most fans, plus, the opportunity to play for a solid bowl appearance and/or a shot at a national title would continue to drive attendance for true college football fans. Besides, who isn't sick and tired of watching two 6-6 teams play in some no-name bowl in mid December?

I know it takes time to build a non-regional fan base, but look what Ted Turner did with the Atlanta Braves back in the 70's. I remember the Braves announcers counting heads in the stands; they are arguably one of the most heavily-marketed teams in MLB. I also think the sports media would have a lot of material for transforming what had previously been once a year/maybe in the playoffs matchups to what would become yearly rivarlies.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm sorry, what has realignment left Boise? Membership in the Big East in football only? That's their big "prize" and "recognition" for beating Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl?

People are acting like Boise's success is something that should be a level of aspiration for FCS programs. With the new plus-one playoff structure, I'm less sure that ever it makes sense for anyone not in the Big 10, Big XII, SEC or Pac 12. I'm even dubious about the benefits for the ACC.

[cbarrier90]

I'm sorry, what has realignment left Boise? Membership in the Big East in football only? That's their big "prize" and "recognition" for beating Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl?

People are acting like Boise's success is something that should be a level of aspiration for FCS programs. With the new plus-one playoff structure, I'm less sure that ever it makes sense for anyone not in the Big 10, Big XII, SEC or Pac 12. I'm even dubious about the benefits for the ACC.

Are you really suggesting Boise State University would be better off competing for FCS championships as opposed to the BCS?

Their prize is national recognition, money, and a chance to expand their brand at a level the FCS can't touch.

[EKU-n-GSU]

Wonder how many FBS schools w/marginal programs would consider 'trading down' to be A) more competitive and B) more fiscally sound?


Discuss amongst yourselves...

[Apphole]

Wonder how many FBS schools w/marginal programs would consider 'trading down' to be A) more competitive and B) more fiscally sound?


Discuss amongst yourselves...

0

[ASUMountaineer]

Wonder how many FBS schools w/marginal programs would consider 'trading down' to be A) more competitive and B) more fiscally sound?


Discuss amongst yourselves...

As Apphole said, 0.

[TheRevSFA]

0

Disagree...betcha UL-Monroe starts eyeing the SLC again. They are in the red.

[ASUMountaineer]

Disagree...betcha UL-Monroe starts eyeing the SLC again. They are in the red.

I'd be willing to bet many schools' athletic departments are in the red.

[TheRevSFA]

I'd be willing to bet many schools' athletic departments are in the red.

in the red, non competitive....haven't been competitive in a decade or more.

[ASUMountaineer]

in the red, non competitive....haven't been competitive in a decade or more.

No doubt those are out there. Just not sure if they'd consider moving to FCS.

[asumike83]

in the red, non competitive....haven't been competitive in a decade or more.

Not disagreeing there but I highly doubt they would consider moving to the SLC. Idaho is in the exact same situation with the added issue of not even having a football conference, yet they are resisting a drop down to FCS with everything they've got. The stigma of dropping back down will prevent most anyone from doing it, regardless of how much sense it makes. There is no more perfect candidate than Idaho for a move back to FCS. If they don't make the move, I'd be very surprised if a team with a conference affiliation would.

[EKU-n-GSU]

Not disagreeing there but I highly doubt they would consider moving to the SLC. Idaho is in the exact same situation with the added issue of not even having a football conference, yet they are resisting a drop down to FCS with everything they've got. The stigma of dropping back down will prevent most anyone from doing it, regardless of how much sense it makes. There is no more perfect candidate than Idaho for a move back to FCS. If they don't make the move, I'd be very surprised if a team with a conference affiliation would.

I would think it a very difficult choice to make (dropping back to FCS) but could see making the choice to drop FB altogether even more difficult. University regents can try to pass along fees to cover spiraling AD costs, but sooner or later students (and parents funding the students) will push back (go back to the newco JUCO in mid-major market post earlier in this thread - if I understood that comment correctly). As an example, GSU is putting another $25 on their 'student athletics' fees; unless there is some movement in revenue from outside sources those pools will dry up, too. Then what?

Perhaps the BCS playoff will have the unintended (or intended?) consequence of the creation of a new tier of college FB competition. 4-6 super conferences battling it out for the big enchilada, another 10-12 conferences in a true 'bowl' subdivision, and smaller-market universities filling in the gaps at the FCS level. I for one do not see GSU moving to the FBS in the near or mid-term future - even with 20,000+ students and the support of a pretty ferverent fan base I don't see the money coming in. Additionally, as anyone who's ever been to the 'boro can attest to, there is a bunch of infrastructure improvement needed to make any of this FBS-move nonsense a reality.

[asufan87]

Even the most challenged FBS programs will avoid moving to FCS. Some estimates have the new FBS playoff format generating $500 million or more annually. Early chatter among collegiate administrators is that some portion of the take (1/3) will be split evenly among all FBS schools. Do the math, that's $1.3 million for doing nothing but carrying the FBS label. Why would a school like La Monroe walk away from this? Add in the reasonable assumption that top tier FBS schools will no longer have the incentive to schedule FCS programs beginning in 2014 due to strength of schedule for playoff consideration and a move down is even more remote for those even at the bottom of FBS.

No FBS will have the incentive to move down until FCS figures out how to close the exposure and revenue gaps between the two sub-divisions.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Even the most challenged FBS programs will avoid moving to FCS. Some estimates have the new FBS playoff format generating $500 million or more annually. Early chatter among collegiate administrators is that some portion of the take (1/3) will be split evenly among all FBS schools. Do the math, that's $1.3 million for doing nothing but carrying the FBS label. Why would a school like La Monroe walk away from this? Add in the reasonable assumption that top tier FBS schools will no longer have the incentive to schedule FCS programs beginning in 2014 due to strength of schedule for playoff consideration and a move down is even more remote for those even at the bottom of FBS.

No FBS will have the incentive to move down until FCS figures out how to close the exposure and revenue gaps between the two sub-divisions.

The first part I can accept, though it's still all hypothetical at this point, but don't kid yourself, SEC schools are not suddenly going to schedule Oregon as out-of-conference teams to beef up their at-large cred. They will continue to schedule FCS teams, they will still count for "bowl eligibility", and nothing will change on that score.

[unknown3]

The first part I can accept, though it's still all hypothetical at this point, but don't kid yourself, SEC schools are not suddenly going to schedule Oregon as out-of-conference teams to beef up their at-large cred. They will continue to schedule FCS teams, they will still count for "bowl eligibility", and nothing will change on that score.

That would make sense, if LSU didn't play Oregon during the regular season as well as West Virginia. Or if Georgia didn't play Boise, or if Tennessee hadn't played Oregon/UCLA, or the Auburn series with USC or the Arkansas series with USC. I think you see where i'm going with this. And you can bet that those FCS games will slow down in frequency once the playoffs start and strength of schedule actually starts to matter.

[asumike83]

If the result of factoring in strength of schedule means that losing to a top 25 FBS team helps more than beating an FCS team, you can bet the big boys will stop playing FCS schools if at all possible. I have no idea what their formula will be or if that will be the case but playing FCS competition would make no sense if it hurts your chances to win a ring.

I do still think there will be FCS/FBS match-ups but the big schools could certainly continue to distance themselves from the rest of the field by scheduling a bunch of non-conference games among themselves and letting the mid-major FBS schools play FCS competition. It would weaken their SOS and stack the odds even more against them in terms of getting a shot to play for a championship, which seems to be consistent with where the sport is headed.

[ekufbfan]

All this movement is to position yourself (universities) to make more money and gain more prestige. DO I want that for EKU, you bet. But the sorry part of all this is that TV exposure and revenue has been and will continue to go the chosen few/big conferences. There is no going back to 20 plus years ago when you could watch one or two games on Saturday afternoon tv and also take in the local college game and be satisfied. Now there is steady bombardment from noon on Saturday thru Sunday morning and beyond. Other than the die hard fans of FCS schools and lower tier FBS schools, no one gives a hoot about when they play, seeing them play or if they ever attend a game. I am going to get flack for this and probably be called a hater, but outside of Bowling Green and WKU alumni, NO one in KY gives a hoot about Westen football and many cases do not even realize they have moved up to FBS. They have spent a boat load of money there, including raising student fees. They say it has paid dividends, in student enrollment and gifts to the university, maybe it has, but I wonder if it covers the cost of the yearly football budget (coaches salaries, upgrades, travel, increase scholarships, etc.) they will continue to have. On top of all this, the state of KY cuts money to universites every year. That said, if EKU had the chance to move, I would say DO IT. My point is, in the state of KY anyway, money, game attendance, fan loyalty, prestige, newspaper and tv coverage etc. is going to the University of KY (with the Univ. of Louisville making a little noise, and I mean little) and the rest of us floundering for what is left regardless if you are DII, FCS or FBS (outside the SEC). The media perpetuates this and I don't see it changing and with the playoff system for the "big boys" it will only get worse.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If the result of factoring in strength of schedule means that losing helps more than winning...

Modified your original post to show why this this SoS argument is dead on arrival. The best way to guarantee a playoff spot is to win the B10/B12/P12/SEC and to have as few losses as possible, not have the strongest OOC schedule. Furthermore, this percolates down from the power conferences. Why on earth should Michigan State schedule Oregon instead of Portland State? If they win their conference and go undefeated, they will certainly be in the playoffs, but if they lose to Oregon and, say, Texas they open themselves up to being left out.

[EKU-n-GSU]

I am going to get flack for this and probably be called a hater, but outside of Bowling Green and WKU alumni, NO one in KY gives a hoot about Westen football and many cases do not even realize they have moved up to FBS. They have spent a boat load of money there, including raising student fees. They say it has paid dividends, in student enrollment and gifts to the university, maybe it has, but I wonder if it covers the cost of the yearly football budget (coaches salaries, upgrades, travel, increase scholarships, etc.) they will continue to have. On top of all this, the state of KY cuts money to universites every year.

WKU was one of the universities I was thinking about when suggesting that there were probably more FBS schools that one would think would entertain a move back to FCS. I don't know when you attended EKU, but I remember vividly the rivalry between EKU and WKU back in the late 70's/early 80's. You're right about today's mood, though, barely anyone in KY gives a damn if WKU is playing, and probably fewer know they are an FBS team now.

[asumike83]

Modified your original post to show why this this SoS argument is dead on arrival. The best way to guarantee a playoff spot is to win the B10/B12/P12/SEC and to have as few losses as possible, not have the strongest OOC schedule. Furthermore, this percolates down from the power conferences. Why on earth should Michigan State schedule Oregon instead of Portland State? If they win their conference and go undefeated, they will certainly be in the playoffs, but if they lose to Oregon and, say, Texas they open themselves up to being left out.

I have not seen the formula they will be using but would it not be possible that a 1-loss team in one of the big four conferences whose defeat was out of conference to a team like Oregon while playing other solid OOC competition would get in over a 1-loss team in another big four conference who beat up on FCS teams out of conference?

The Notre Dame AD will be on the selection committee and said this:

"One of the things we like so much about that is as much as this happened in basketball in the past decade, the selection committee will send a real message about strength of schedule," Swarbrick said. "If you choose not to challenge yourself, especially in the pre-conference games, it's going to impact your rating. That's another way we think we're contributing to the vibrancy of the regular season through this process."

http://espn.go.com/chicago/ncf/story/_/id/8104821/notre-dame-fighting-irish-ad-swarbrick-wants-college-football-playoff-selection-process-look-every-team

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I have not seen the formula they will be using but would it not be possible that a 1-loss team in one of the big four conferences whose defeat was out of conference to a team like Oregon while playing other solid OOC competition would get in over a 1-loss team in another big four conference who beat up on FCS teams out of conference?

The Notre Dame AD will be on the selection committee and said this:

"One of the things we like so much about that is as much as this happened in basketball in the past decade, the selection committee will send a real message about strength of schedule," Swarbrick said. "If you choose not to challenge yourself, especially in the pre-conference games, it's going to impact your rating. That's another way we think we're contributing to the vibrancy of the regular season through this process."

http://espn.go.com/chicago/ncf/story/_/id/8104821/notre-dame-fighting-irish-ad-swarbrick-wants-college-football-playoff-selection-process-look-every-team

Notre Dame's AD would love this, as they routinely play one of the most brutal schedules in the nation year in and year out.

And as I've said before, the only way to guarantee a ticket to the playoffs is to win your league. Nobody schedules for the eventuality of making the playoffs with a "quality loss". I mean, look at FCS. How often do App State/Montana games roll around? It's not as if App State looks for home games against them on a routine basis. They can still schedule Mars Hill or Savannah State and still make the playoffs, because the conference title is the goal.

[ekufbfan]

WKU was one of the universities I was thinking about when suggesting that there were probably more FBS schools that one would think would entertain a move back to FCS. I don't know when you attended EKU, but I remember vividly the rivalry between EKU and WKU back in the late 70's/early 80's. You're right about today's mood, though, barely anyone in KY gives a damn if WKU is playing, and probably fewer know they are an FBS team now.

Don't see them moving back unless money issues became desperate. They say, "we (western) have separated ourselves from our sister institutions" and they now consider themselves on par with UL and UK. Now they have a very progressive president, who is a western grad and they have done some good things there, but living in the central part of KY (very close to Lexington) and now in Louisville, and you understand it, the majority of Kentuckians could care less if western put a satellite campus on the moon and produced the next Heisman winner.
Yes, I graduated from EKU a number of years ago, before the 80's, and the EKU-western rivalry was the best one in the state and one of the best in IAA. Sad that it no longer exists.

[SoCon48]

I'd be willing to bet many schools' athletic departments are in the red.

I just wonder, who pays the bills when a school is in the red? The money has to come from somewhere. A corporation can't stay in the red and survive. So how does an athletic program do so?.

[Skjellyfetti]

Universities aren't corporations and they aren't (or most respected ones aren't) for profit. Most schools have money set aside for academic departments or athletic departments that go over budget.

[EKU-n-GSU]

I just wonder, who pays the bills when a school is in the red? The money has to come from somewhere. A corporation can't stay in the red and survive. So how does an athletic program do so?.

Can you say 'endowment'; sure, I knew you could...

[ASUMountaineer]

I just wonder, who pays the bills when a school is in the red? The money has to come from somewhere. A corporation can't stay in the red and survive. So how does an athletic program do so?.

Do you disagree with my post? See what Jelly said. Surely you don't think athletic departments all operate in the black, or do you think track and field hockey turn a profit?

[UNDColorado]

Do you disagree with my post? See what Jelly said. Surely you don't think athletic departments all operate in the black, or do you think track and field hockey turn a profit?

Hockey can certainly turn a profit. At UND we pack 12,000+ for each game at $25+ per ticket. Something like 20 home games per year. I am not saying every school that plays Hockey turns a profit but it is a very real possibility to turn a profit if you operate correctly. It also helps to have a NHL quality arena.

Track and other OLY sports- no way do they turn a profit.

[BisonBacker]

Hockey can certainly turn a profit. At UND we pack 12,000+ for each game at $25+ per ticket. Something like 20 home games per year. I am not saying every school that plays Hockey turns a profit but it is a very real possibility to turn a profit if you operate correctly. It also helps to have a NHL quality arena.

Track and other OLY sports- no way do they turn a profit.

It can also put the screws big time to an AD and his budget. For a quick example of just how great hockey is take a look at UNO. Bye Bye football thanks to title IX and hockey combined.

[asumike83]

Notre Dame's AD would love this, as they routinely play one of the most brutal schedules in the nation year in and year out.

And as I've said before, the only way to guarantee a ticket to the playoffs is to win your league. Nobody schedules for the eventuality of making the playoffs with a "quality loss". I mean, look at FCS. How often do App State/Montana games roll around? It's not as if App State looks for home games against them on a routine basis. They can still schedule Mars Hill or Savannah State and still make the playoffs, because the conference title is the goal.

Winning your league is always goal one and that won't change regardless of who you play out of conference. Comparing to FCS is apples and oranges though, there are 20 spots in our postseason as opposed to the 4 they will be fighting for. While a CAA/SoCon/MVFC team can do well in conference, schedule weak OOC and still get one of their conference's 3-5 bids, that will not be the case at the FBS level unless the playoffs are expanded.

The SEC, Big 10 and Big 12 conferences will be fighting for the opportunity to put two teams in the field and if playing weak competition in non-conference play will negatively affect your ranking as much as they say it will, I see no reason for the big boys to keep playing FCS programs. They could have one marquee OOC match-up, fill the other two with mid-major FBS teams and be much better off. If they end up expanding to 8 or 16 teams, then I think we will start seeing a lot of them go back to tuning up on FCS competition.

[GlassOnion]

And the 20 playoff spots is BS. There are not 20 playoff worthy teams, and there are most definately not 24.

16 was perfect.

[ASUMountaineer]

Hockey can certainly turn a profit. At UND we pack 12,000+ for each game at $25+ per ticket. Something like 20 home games per year. I am not saying every school that plays Hockey turns a profit but it is a very real possibility to turn a profit if you operate correctly. It also helps to have a NHL quality arena.

Track and other OLY sports- no way do they turn a profit.

Please notice I said "field hockey." Big difference.

[fc97]

And the 20 playoff spots is BS. There are not 20 playoff worthy teams, and there are most definately not 24.

16 was perfect.

16 is perfect unless you are one of the first ones left out

id say 8 is perfect. if you cant win your conference no matter how tough it is then why should you get a shot at a national championship

discuss

[SpiritCymbal]

16 is perfect unless you are one of the first ones left out

id say 8 is perfect. if you cant win your conference no matter how tough it is then why should you get a shot at a national championship

discuss

Not all conferences are the same...would be my argument. Unless you somehow have an even playing field amongst all conferences, then being conference champions should be a "bonus" but not a "requirement" for post-season.

[PaladinFan]

16 is perfect unless you are one of the first ones left out

id say 8 is perfect. if you cant win your conference no matter how tough it is then why should you get a shot at a national championship

discuss

As a counter argument to that position, please see the 2005 Furman Paladins. I am not alone in my belief that the two best teams in the country settled things in the semi-finals in Boone rather than in Chattanooga in the finals.

In my opinion, limiting the playoffs just to conference winners would eliminate some of the best football teams in the country and completely water down the playoffs.

[OL FU]

Winning your league is always goal one and that won't change regardless of who you play out of conference. Comparing to FCS is apples and oranges though, there are 20 spots in our postseason as opposed to the 4 they will be fighting for. While a CAA/SoCon/MVFC team can do well in conference, schedule weak OOC and still get one of their conference's 3-5 bids, that will not be the case at the FBS level unless the playoffs are expanded.

The SEC, Big 10 and Big 12 conferences will be fighting for the opportunity to put two teams in the field and if playing weak competition in non-conference play will negatively affect your ranking as much as they say it will, I see no reason for the big boys to keep playing FCS programs. They could have one marquee OOC match-up, fill the other two with mid-major FBS teams and be much better off. If they end up expanding to 8 or 16 teams, then I think we will start seeing a lot of them go back to tuning up on FCS competition.

I don't know how it is going to work, but if a teams wins the SEC, it won't matter who they play out of conference at least not between FCS and the Sunbelt unless they lose the game which is pretty darn doubtful.xtwocentsx

[GlassOnion]

16 is perfect unless you are one of the first ones left out

id say 8 is perfect. if you cant win your conference no matter how tough it is then why should you get a shot at a national championship

discuss

I'll stick with 16. Just to give Elon a chance of sniffing the bubble.

[asumike83]

I don't know how it is going to work, but if a teams wins the SEC, it won't matter who they play out of conference at least not between FCS and the Sunbelt unless they lose the game which is pretty darn doubtful.xtwocentsx

I definitely agree, winning the league is always goal one. My point comes into play more for the runner-up. Say that fourth playoff spot comes down to the ACC champion against the SEC/Big XII runner-up. That is where I think non-conference schedule strength could come into play.

[fc97]

sure, i get the points and i agree with them. pointing out that some of the championship teams were at large bids and why some of the new championship teams could be the expanded at large bids

but making it only automatic qualifiers could help to balance conferences and prevent a certain few conferences from dominating through team expansion

[MplsBison]

I don't know how anyone could. The article basically states:
- Sunbelt turned down Georgia Southern and said they were not looking at expanding.
- Confirms the WAC is essentially all but dead.
- Confirms C-USA was only looking at large markets.

As a JMU fan that basically leaves the MAC as the only option now for JMU, Appalachian State, Georgia Southern, Liberty, etc. etc. That is, until the next round of conference shakeups.

There is, of course, another option. A completely realistic, bold option. I've detailed it before.

A single barrier to entry exists for any I-AA school wanting to upgrade its football program to I-A: an invitation from an existing I-A conference.


So ask yourself: what existing I-A conference is going to be needed new members very soon and won't be in any position to dictate media market size, geographical location, etc.?

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Some of our fan base's tinfoil hats are cutting off circulation to their brains.

[SoCon48]

And the 20 playoff spots is BS. There are not 20 playoff worthy teams, and there are most definately not 24.

16 was perfect.

I didn't understand any of the expansion. The NCAA claimed they were losing money as it was. Why, then, expand the number of play-off teams to 20 or 24? It would seem that would cause them to lose even more money.

[Apphole]

Some of our fan base's tinfoil hats are cutting off circulation to their brains.

http://www.englishforum.ch/attachments/housing-general/33688-viewed-house-interesting-feature-tinfoil-hats.jpg

[UNDColorado]

Please notice I said "field hockey." Big difference.
My bad, it was early.

[UNDColorado]

It can also put the screws big time to an AD and his budget. For a quick example of just how great hockey is take a look at UNO. Bye Bye football thanks to title IX and hockey combined.
Yeah that was a bad deal for them. I asked a buddy of mine who went to UNO why they dropped Football and he said part of the reason was that they just couldn't compete with Nebraska, as one of the reasons. They also have a great hockey arena already so in that regard it made financial sense. I wish they still had football though.

[GlassOnion]

I didn't understand any of the expansion. The NCAA claimed they were losing money as it was. Why, then, expand the number of play-off teams to 20 or 24? It would seem that would cause them to lose even more money.

The schools eat most of the losses anyways. Maybe it has to do with the bidding. I dunno, but its bound to have money driving it somewhere. Most decisions like that do.

[eaglewraith]

There is, of course, another option. A completely realistic, bold option. I've detailed it before.

A single barrier to entry exists for any I-AA school wanting to upgrade its football program to I-A: an invitation from an existing I-A conference.


So ask yourself: what existing I-A conference is going to be needed new members very soon and won't be in any position to dictate media market size, geographical location, etc.?

Baker said we would not go to the WAC. As to how accurate that is, I have no idea.

If us and App don't go, you just lost a lot of the weight there. Idaho and NMSU could survive as Indy's for a year or two until they got absorbed by someone. If the WAC dies, I don't see another conference starting up very easily. Once the WAC dies, the other non-BCS conferences get a higher payout from that pot of money. It's going to be hell trying to get a new conference carved out when it would affect other conferences monetarily.

[asumike83]

Baker said we would not go to the WAC. As to how accurate that is, I have no idea.

If us and App don't go, you just lost a lot of the weight there. Idaho and NMSU could survive as Indy's for a year or two until they got absorbed by someone. If the WAC dies, I don't see another conference starting up very easily. Once the WAC dies, the other non-BCS conferences get a higher payout from that pot of money. It's going to be hell trying to get a new conference carved out when it would affect other conferences monetarily.

JMU has also said they are not interested in the WAC. Appalachian has made no public statement but without those two, I see no chance we'd consider it unless we were forced into drastic action by a long moratorium. It would take the support of all the East coast FCS move-ups for the 'WAC East' idea to work and that is not happening.

Chances are slim to none that anything ever comes of it.

[MplsBison]

That's a good point that if the WAC ends I-A football sponsorship, each of the remaining 10 conferences gets a bigger cut of money. Or perhaps the big 5 conferences just keep that share. Either way, they all may be planning for that to happen now and would fight hard to make sure it does.

It only works if you get 8 total teams (assuming New Mexico St and Idaho would be in). Would need at least 4 in the east and another 2 to join in the west to make it reasonable divisions. Something like Sac St and Portland St in the west and the new eastern division would be JMU, App St, GA Southern and one other. Maybe Jax St.

Like I said, it's bold. But this is a perhaps once in a generation opportunity to jump up from I-AA to I-A. There's not going to be any new I-A conferences. The existing conferences won't allow the money to be split further. And I don't see any conference splits as conferences are growing in size, not shrinking. It's either get in or you could be defacto left out in the cold of I-AA for a long time.

[EKU-n-GSU]

Precisely why these schools should forget trying to 'fit in' to an existing conference and form their own at the FBS level. With the WAC ready to implode upon itself, I see an opportunity for the top-tier FCS programs to create their own FBS conference. Traveling up and down the eastern seaboard and into the midwest isn't too difficult considering +70% of the US population lives east of the Mississippi river and is within an hour's flight from Memphis (just using Memphis as a geographical reference point). I'd bet there would be a significant fan base for those 10-12 top tier FCS teams that would drive contracts with ESPN and regional TV, so the revenue would come. Better recruiting, better visibility, better TV contracts, eventually the opportunity to play for the national championship would surface.

Back to my earlier post:

1. WAC divests itself of football sponsorship, opening up the field for a new conference.
2. FCS-contenders need only apply for an East-West division conference - name to follow.
3. East Division (in no particular order and certain to create a furor):
GA Southern
App State
JMU
Delaware
EKU
Richmond
Villanova
W&M
4. West Division (see note above about furor):
Youngstown State
NIU
NDSU
SHSU
EWU
SFA
Sac St.
McNeese
5. Play an 8-game conference schedule including (1) inter-divisional game, and a EW conference championship game.

Given these programs' history, there would be a fan base, there is built-in credibility for a quality product on the field for TV, and for most (especially the West division) teams they're already traveling a bunch as it is. You'd probably get 2-3 teams a year into bowls, i.e, more conference money, etc., etc. The notion is not too far out there, actually.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The schools eat most of the losses anyways. Maybe it has to do with the bidding. I dunno, but its bound to have money driving it somewhere. Most decisions like that do.
How do the schools eat losses? The NCAA pays the expenses, the schools collect the money from ticket sales and then pay the NCAA based on that keeping a small cut for themselves.

Is there some aspect of this I'm unaware of where the schools are ponying up? I mean if they overbid massively Icould see that but I can't think of that happening.

[Skjellyfetti]

I think most larger schools would break even or come out ahead from hosting FCS playoff games.

According to our feasibility report we make ~$25,000 for hosting 2 FCS playoff games.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I think most larger schools would break even or come out ahead from hosting FCS playoff games.

According to our feasibility report we make ~$25,000 for hosting 2 FCS playoff games.

Yeah, Montana makes a little as well.

[AppMan]

JMU has also said they are not interested in the WAC. Appalachian has made no public statement but without those two, I see no chance we'd consider it unless we were forced into drastic action by a long moratorium. It would take the support of all the East coast FCS move-ups for the 'WAC East' idea to work and that is not happening.

Chances are slim to none that anything ever comes of it.

I have it on very good authority ASU approached JMU and UD as to their interest in joining the WAC. Neither was interested and that bus has now left the terminal. This very connected source tells me it was a Hail Mary pass being tossed by the WAC trying to keep their doors open. Didn't work. IMO the WAC waited 2 years too long to make that kind of pitch. Had they approached ASU, Del, Ga State, Ga Southern, Jax State, JMU, Liberty, ODU and UNCC back then (with a hefty exit fee) a nice conference could have been put together.

[GlassOnion]

How do the schools eat losses? The NCAA pays the expenses, the schools collect the money from ticket sales and then pay the NCAA based on that keeping a small cut for themselves.

Is there some aspect of this I'm unaware of where the schools are ponying up? I mean if they overbid massively Icould see that but I can't think of that happening.

Pays the expenses?

"Just to keep the student-athletes on campus during Christmas will also cost the two schools in the championship an additional $100,000 – none of which is budgeted. And to put in perspective, we LOST $150,000 each of the past two year going to the championship game."

-Jim O'Day

$100,000 for room and board, where's the other $50,000 loss?


Montana produced $1.1 million of the $2.5 million 2010 FCS playoff, the rest of the playoff field, $1 mil. The NCAA ate the $400,000 +. They have now increased the playoff, pulling in 4 more teams that draw flies to games. More teams, more games, same amount of money.

How can this mean anything but the schools picking up the cost?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Pays the expenses?

"Just to keep the student-athletes on campus during Christmas will also cost the two schools in the championship an additional $100,000 – none of which is budgeted. And to put in perspective, we LOST $150,000 each of the past two year going to the championship game."

-Jim O'Day

$100,000 for room and board, where's the other $50,000 loss?


Montana produced $1.1 million of the $2.5 million 2010 FCS playoff, the rest of the playoff field, $1 mil. The NCAA ate the $400,000 +. They have now increased the playoff, pulling in 4 more teams that draw flies to games. More teams, more games, same amount of money.

How can this mean anything but the schools picking up the cost?

That was from Jim's f'd up email to boosters when he was trying to downplay the playoffs and move the base towards FBS. He did much cherry picking of the numbers to suit what he wanted. Did you also notice that he said that UM may need to look at D2 because we would be unable to pay for out of state scholarships any longer...so it was FBS or D2 most likely?

The NCAA covers all costs associated with championship events including lodging from everything I know of it...and I may not know everything but I'm pretty sure that is the case.

UM has a way of adding additional costs to events like going to the National Championship events that the NCAA does not cover...like the band, cheer, some boosters and alumni, etc...

I have seen some splurging on trips to Chattanooga that would fall well outside what the NCAA would cover...that's a schools own choice and is not a necessity but if they want to do it and then cry they are paying out the nose for it I'm sorry I don't think any of us just fell of that turnip truck.

You know how accounting is, you can move any expense around and claim it as the culprit if you want to and leave the largesse out of the discussion to suit your purpose.

The NCAA covers the expenses...within reason I guess?

[Saint3333]

Taking the band and cheerleaders doesn't sound excessive.

The NCAA pays for bare bones and when I say the NCAA pays I mean the host schools making the bids plus a percentage of the gate from the host schools pays for the travel of the visitor.

What a nice reward for being successful.

[MplsBison]

Back to my earlier post:

1. WAC divests itself of football sponsorship, opening up the field for a new conference.
2. FCS-contenders need only apply for an East-West division conference - name to follow.
3. East Division (in no particular order and certain to create a furor):
GA Southern
App State
JMU
Delaware
EKU
Richmond
Villanova
W&M
4. West Division (see note above about furor):
Youngstown State
NIU
NDSU
SHSU
EWU
SFA
Sac St.
McNeese
5. Play an 8-game conference schedule including (1) inter-divisional game, and a EW conference championship game.

Given these programs' history, there would be a fan base, there is built-in credibility for a quality product on the field for TV, and for most (especially the West division) teams they're already traveling a bunch as it is. You'd probably get 2-3 teams a year into bowls, i.e, more conference money, etc., etc. The notion is not too far out there, actually.

Can't.

The rules say that the only way into the I-A brotherhood is to receive an invitation from an existing I-A conference. If the WAC dies, so does that many more opportunities for move ups.

[ASUMountaineer]

My bad, it was early.

No prob!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Taking the band and cheerleaders doesn't sound excessive.

The NCAA pays for bare bones and when I say the NCAA pays I mean the host schools making the bids plus a percentage of the gate from the host schools pays for the travel of the visitor.

What a nice reward for being successful.

Yes it is. That's why schools bid well to host. Of course it could be worse...your school could be on the hook for big money instead of making some and having the home game(s). The NCAA pays...they do so for all the schools equally and if your school wants to go outside of that then foot the bill and shut your mouth or don't go outside the boundaries.

[EKU-n-GSU]

Can't.

The rules say that the only way into the I-A brotherhood is to receive an invitation from an existing I-A conference. If the WAC dies, so does that many more opportunities for move ups.

Not being sarcastic but is that rule etched in stone, say, as the 11th Commandment? Everything can be changed, it just takes a concensus and fair-minded, forward-thinking people. But, therein lies the real problem.

[Saint3333]

What a bunch of crap.

Rob from the "rich" to pay for further expansion (unnecessary expansion I must add). Sounds like a government run organization.

[jmufan]

Ga southern and ASU should try and join the CAA.

[MplsBison]

Not being sarcastic but is that rule etched in stone, say, as the 11th Commandment? Everything can be changed, it just takes a concensus and fair-minded, forward-thinking people. But, therein lies the real problem.

But the people who do the etching or the un-etching only care what I-A wants. I-AA is the same thing as DII and DIII to them.

The only possible benefit to repealing the rule would be for those I-AA schools who want to move up to I-A as independents or to start a new conferences. That can only possibly be money out of the pockets of existing I-A conferences. I don't think it takes a highly educated person to see how well that will go over....


Unless GA Southern gets an invitation from the WAC, SunBelt or CUSA ... it can't move I-A, no matter how well prepared it is. Simple as that.

So those of you championing the death of the WAC might want to think hard about that for a second...

[MplsBison]

Ga southern and ASU should try and join the CAA.

They won't be making a lateral move just to play football games in Maine and New Hampshire and end long traditions with Furman, Wofford, etc.

[eaglewraith]

Not being sarcastic but is that rule etched in stone, say, as the 11th Commandment? Everything can be changed, it just takes a concensus and fair-minded, forward-thinking people. But, therein lies the real problem.

You're talking about the NCAA. Sooooo yea......

[asumike83]

So those of you championing the death of the WAC might want to think hard about that for a second...

I don't think anyone is championing the death of the WAC, only being realistic about the fact that it is likely imminent. Getting all these FCS schools on the same timeline and moving up simultaneously would be a logistical nightmare. For me, it's not that I want the WAC to die, I just don't think it is a workable option.

[MplsBison]

I don't think anyone is championing the death of the WAC, only being realistic about the fact that it is likely imminent. Getting all these FCS schools on the same timeline and moving up simultaneously would be a logistical nightmare. For me, it's not that I want the WAC to die, I just don't think it is a workable option.

Well, I'm not an AD or a president - but I for one don't see why it isn't an easy decision.

It's not a marriage. It could be a temporary thing.


All you need is 4 or 5 good, solid I-AA programs with I-A type facilities to sign their football teams up for WAC membership for a few years until something else gets sorted out. GSU, ASU, JMU, Liberty, Jax St all seem to have the facilities (for the most part) and the will.

And once more --- FOOTBALL ONLY.

[TheRevSFA]

Well, I'm not an AD or a president - but I for one don't see why it isn't an easy decision.

It's not a marriage. It could be a temporary thing.


All you need is 4 or 5 good, solid I-AA programs with I-A type facilities to sign their football teams up for WAC membership for a few years until something else gets sorted out. GSU, ASU, JMU, Liberty, Jax St all seem to have the facilities (for the most part) and the will.

And once more --- FOOTBALL ONLY.

You mean "get invited" not "sign up"

[MplsBison]

You mean "get invited" not "sign up"

They would get football only invites if they wanted them.

[TheRevSFA]

They would get football only invites if they wanted them.

Really? Lamar has been pining for a football invite, has yet to receive one. Not quite sure things work out in the real world like they do in your head..

[jmufan]

They won't be making a lateral move just to play football games in Maine and New Hampshire and end long traditions with Furman, Wofford, etc.

I don't think it is a lateral move per se because in the CAA you have a much better tv package that includes national exposure.