gimmicky offense.

[GATA]

We ALL know that option based offenses are just "gimmicks" and that you can't really compete with any team that runs a "sophisticated" pro-style scheme. It's science: If you run a "high school" offense then you're not really playing big boy football and you will never succeed.

With that being said...how is it possible that the SOCON football juggernaut known as the Chattanooga Mocs managed to lose to 3 flexbone teams in the same season?

I need answers. With pro-style schemes and superior coaching, there is no excuse for Chatty losing ALL 3 GAMES. Is it the players? Was it a fluke? Did Woffy, Citadel, and GSU all cheat?!

[GSUsTALON]

Everyone knows that GSU runs the gimmic, trick offense called the flexbone so what's your point in bringing it back up buster! .... ;-)

[NoDak 4 Ever]

We ALL know that option based offenses are just "gimmicks" and that you can't really compete with any team that has Colton Heagle.

I need answers. With pro-style schemes and superior coaching, there is no excuse for Chatty losing ALL 3 GAMES. Is it the players? Was it a fluke? Did Woffy, Citadel, and GSU all cheat?!

FIFY xlolx

[Hammerhead]

I've always heard that team speed on defense is what kills the triple option, veer, and similar offenses.

[bisonwest]

I've always heard that team speed on defense is what kills the triple option, veer, and similar offenses.

Speed doesn't hurt but players staying on assignment is what kills the option.

[melloware13]

I've always heard that team speed on defense is what kills the triple option, veer, and similar offenses.

Additionally, a defense that is smart and stays in position will able to stop almost any offense (including the option)

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Speed doesn't hurt but players staying on assignment is what kills the option.

One on one open field tackling also helps but I agree with this poster.

[McNeese75]

Obviously it was just bad luck, bad weather, bad calls, bad timing, bad news..... :D

[Apphole]

How it's done- 2:59-3:19

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I8c7uhlNBw&list=UUEkjuXtUX1OMy-SZl8-K8_w&index=5&feature=plcp

[jmufan999]

I've always heard that team speed on defense is what kills the triple option, veer, and similar offenses.

Except when you have a FB that can kill you with the dive play over and over.

I don't consider the triple option to be gimmicky at all. Actually, I don't consider ANY offense gimmicky. Now, there are gimmicky PLAYS (flea flicker, statue of liberty, etc.), but any kind of offense that has a name (west coast/pro style, spread option, triple option, etc.) is not gimmicky in my book. And even if they are, who cares? If you love football like I do, watching any style is fun. Drives me nuts when JMU fans complain about the lack of passing. Winning is all that matters, and GaSo has that offense figured out.

[McNeese75]

Speed doesn't hurt but players staying on assignment is what kills the option.

Yep xnodx

[clenz]

Speed doesn't hurt but players staying on assignment is what kills the option.

This.


The triple option is "easy" to stop, but it is a different style of defense than most are used to playing these days. The DL doesn't need to rush upfield, they need to hit a gap and occupy it and not move from it. The LB's have their gaps to fill and not follow anything but their assignment.


As long as the defense doesn't follow the "look" of what is going on and just follows their assignment they should be fine

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Apparently Russ Huesman thought there was a rule that if you're playing an option team and you are down 27-28 at the end of the game then you automatically win. Chatty would have been 8-3 if he had known that was not a rule.

[cbarrier90]

Except when you have a FB that can kill you with the dive play over and over.

Bingo.

Robert Brown vs. ASU (loss): 15 carries, 47 yards, 3.1 avg

Robert Brown vs. Tusculum (blowout win): 12 carries, 70 yards, 5.8 avg

Eric Breitenstein vs. 2010 ASU (loss): 17 carries, 39 yards, 2.3 avg

Eric Breitenstein vs. 2011 ASU (win): 33 carries, 173 yards, 5.2 avg

I love the triple-option offense because it is "unconventional," not "gimmicky," and when run correctly it is truly a nightmare to defend, however, your options are severely limited if there is a defense that stays disciplined and plays assignment football. The TO isn't designed to be a "quick-strike" offense, so it's more difficult to make comebacks from multiple-score deficits, not to mention the added risk of turnovers if the pitch isn't correctly thrown by the QB or caught by the RB.

In fairness, an offense like the spread option is not conducive at all to goal-line situations or "grinding out" the clock.

[Apphole]

In fairness, an offense like the spread option is not conducive at all to goal-line situations or "grinding out" the clock.

I remember watching Armanti practicing snaps under center on the sideline because he had never done it before. Was that the 07 NC game?

[eaglewraith]

In fairness, an offense like the spread option is not conducive at all to goal-line situations or "grinding out" the clock.

Umm...we run the spread option, so what exactly are you talking about?

[eaglewraith]

FIFY xlolx

Heagle was definitely a beast, but he isn't the only reason that your defense stopped us. Your DL did a fantastic job of shaking of the cut blocks and getting to the backfield and pushing us out. We couldn't consistently establish the dive so we tried going outside over and over. Your secondary was also shifting into the motion side every play. That left the weak side CB on an island, but we never exploited it so it was definitely a very good calculated risk for NDSU. Getting into the option alley was key and the perimeter was shut down. We had no real consistent running threat at QB so your guys had everything shut down. It was the best defensive job I've seen, and that includes against App. Against App we just played poorly, 4 trips to the redzone with no points killed us and we were still one score out in that game.

We had some success with the dive from one formation but we decided to stop running it after we scored our only TD. Couple that with the fact we had some bad luck turnovers as well as some very good forced turnovers caused by the NDSU defense. Hopefully no one will watch that game tape ever. Please burn it for the love of god :)

[cbarrier90]

Umm...we run the spread option, so what exactly are you talking about?

I always referred to ASU, WVU, Florida, etc. option out of the shotgun as a "spread" option. I thought GSU was more of a flexbone.

[eaglewraith]

I always referred to ASU, WVU, Florida, etc. option out of the shotgun as a "spread" option. I thought GSU was more of a flexbone.

Flexbone is a formation, just like the shotgun.

Our offense is called the spread option officially. I know you always hear triple option, and a lot of us call it that ourselves, but triple option is just a play. Paul Johnson refers to it as the spread option, and since he's pretty much the genius of it I'll defer to him and what he calls it.

ASU, WVU, Florida run what is referred to as the "spread." Granted that's a very broad term that basically refers to a team that runs it primarily out of a shotgun. It's pretty confusing I won't lie.

[GlassOnion]

It was the best defensive job I've seen, and that includes against App. Against App we just played poorly, 4 trips to the redzone with no points killed us and we were still one score out in that game.


Yeah? Well you faced an App defense with 2 freshmen DEs and missing its All-American honorable mention starting LB and its 1st team All-Socon starting CB. Ga Southern rushed for 186 against NDSU on 48 carries, but only 135 against App on 51 carries. It doesnt get much better than that. The fact you were within 7 points has more to do with the fact the App offense sucked big time than anything dealing with defense.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Yeah? Well you faced an App defense with 2 freshmen DEs and missing its All-American honorable mention starting LB and its 1st team All-Socon starting CB. Ga Southern rushed for 186 against NDSU on 48 carries, but only 135 against App on 51 carries. It doesnt get much better than that. The fact you were within 7 points has more to do with the fact the App offense sucked big time than anything dealing with defense.

Oh, if only yards mattered. NDSU took 3 of the top 10 offenses in the nation and held them to a 4.5ppg scoring average. It doesn't get much better than THAT.

[walliver]

I've never understood the argument that "assignment football" and "speed" makes the option easy to stop.
Assignment football, team speed (and strength) makes EVERY offense easy to stop.

[cbarrier90]

I've never understood the argument that "assignment football" and "speed" makes the option easy to stop.
Assignment football, team speed (and strength) makes EVERY offense easy to stop.

True, but the TO requires more discipline than other, simpler offenses.

[cbarrier90]

Oh, if only yards mattered. NDSU took 3 of the top 10 offenses in the nation and held them to a 4.5ppg scoring average. It doesn't get much better than THAT.

You know it's the off-season when fans are arguing which defense put on the better clinic against the same team...

Robert Brown didn't play against NDSU...xpopcornx

[GlassOnion]

Oh, if only yards mattered. NDSU took 3 of the top 10 offenses in the nation and held them to a 4.5ppg scoring average. It doesn't get much better than THAT.

Sit two of your very best defensive players, and start your Payton finalist QB at DB, and do the same thing, then get back to me.

[eaglewraith]

You know it's the off-season when fans are arguing which defense put on the better clinic against the same team...

Robert Brown didn't play against NDSU...xpopcornx

Dominique Swope is the better B-Back.

He did not play against App and I was screaming at my TV wondering why he wasn't on the field.

[eaglewraith]

Sit two of your very best defensive players, and start your Payton finalist QB at DB, and do the same thing, then get back to me.

NDSU put on a clinic on how to stop us.

That was after we made personnel changes on the OL and B-Back positions after lackluster performance from those positions against App. I'll never deny that App didn't do a good job on defense, but we helped their efforts as well. How we played in that game looked nothing like how we had played in the weeks leading up to it. I saw blockers watching defenders go by that they didn't even try to block. That's lack of effort on the offense.

App did a good job and beat us. NDSU did it better.

[Mountaineer]

I remember watching Armanti practicing snaps under center on the sideline because he had never done it before. Was that the 07 NC game?

I think so. Still, I don't think AE ever took a snap under center, much to the chagrin of cringing App fans everywhere when backed up on the goal line.

The safety against Georgia Southern (the year escapes me, 08?) continues to makes me sigh.

[eaglewraith]

I think so. Still, I don't think AE ever took a snap under center, much to the chagrin of cringing App fans everywhere when backed up on the goal line.

The safety against Georgia Southern (the year escapes me, 08?) continues to makes me sigh.

Yea it was 08. That was an epic game in the last 3 min or so. It took about 5 years off my life. Ugh intentional grounding.

[DJKyR0]

You know it's the off-season when fans are arguing which defense put on the better clinic against the same team...


OH MY GOD, how would Citadel have fared against NDSU by comparative score index?!?!?!?!

http://i.imgur.com/9iOLb.png

[Mountaineer]

It took about 5 years off my life. Ugh intentional grounding.

xlolx

Exempting 2004 and 2009, just about every game in recent memory has been one that sends fans to an early grave. Heart pounding from beginning to end, but that's the way it should be. xthumbsupx

[EKU-n-GSU]

Dominique Swope is the better B-Back.

He did not play against App and I was screaming at my TV wondering why he wasn't on the field.

Man, I can tell you there were 5-6,000 of us in the stands freezing our asses off wondering a lot of things about that game. I have to tip my hat to Monken, though. When he sets a disciplinary tone for the team, he doesn't deviate regardless of the outcome. I'll take prinicple over padding the W column every time...you cannot question integrity.

[PaladinFan]

I've always heard that team speed on defense is what kills the triple option, veer, and similar offenses.

With GSU, it can get difficult. On the line, their guards and tackles line up with the center's hips (not on his heels like in most offenses). The set up forces the defensive line to play well off the ball, and virtually destroys any leverage up front. The line then comes and chop blocks the defense until Christmas. The plays happen so fast that the defensive front doesn't have time to react before three yards are gained.

Everyone talks about "assignment football," and there is some truth to that. Assignment football is what keeps these offenses from popping off a 75 yard run. Assignment football does virtually nothing for the three yard runs. Those are the plays that will kill you on defense. You can have everyone in position and still give up three yards. Those 8 minute drives where no play gets more than five yards are the real backbreakers.

Frankly, the way to beat the option is easy in my opinion: get a lead and force your opponent to play catch up. The offense is a great one, but it is not built for come-from-behind victories. That is where assignment football becomes key. Get a two score lead, and then let the option have all the three yard runs it wants, just don't give up the big play.

*I say all this as a Furman fan. When reading this post, it dawned on me that there is probably no current Division 1 football team in the country that has as much experience playing against the option than Furman.

[eaglewraith]

Frankly, the way to beat the option is easy in my opinion: get a lead and force your opponent to play catch up. The offense is a great one, but it is not built for come-from-behind victories. That is where assignment football becomes key. Get a two score lead, and then let the option have all the three yard runs it wants, just don't give up the big play.

That strategy worked really well for Furman in 85.

Oh wait :)

[eaglewraith]

Man, I can tell you there were 5-6,000 of us in the stands freezing our asses off wondering a lot of things about that game. I have to tip my hat to Monken, though. When he sets a disciplinary tone for the team, he doesn't deviate regardless of the outcome. I'll take prinicple over padding the W column every time...you cannot question integrity.

Yea I have since learned it was a discipline issue. At the time I didn't know that and was pulling my hair out.

[PaladinFan]

That strategy worked really well for Furman in 85.

Oh wait :)

Worked nicely in '88. :)

[Sammy94]

What is a gimmicky offense? xlolx

[Sandlapper Spike]

Frankly, the way to beat the option is easy in my opinion: get a lead and force your opponent to play catch up. The offense is a great one, but it is not built for come-from-behind victories. That is where assignment football becomes key. Get a two score lead, and then let the option have all the three yard runs it wants, just don't give up the big play.

The Citadel trailed Chattanooga 27-0 last season in the third quarter but came back and won 28-27, so come-from-behind victories are not impossible. It takes a little help from the opponent, but that's true for any offense.

[Apphole]

The Citadel trailed Chattanooga 27-0 last season in the third quarter but came back and won 28-27, so come-from-behind victories are not impossible. It takes a little help from the opponent, but that's true for any offense.

It almost happened against ASU too. I was sweating profusely in the fourth quarter of the ASU/Cit game last year, and it wasn't on account of the Charleston heat...

Two trick plays for big yards sure helped erase the gap for the Citadel (and a large gap at that. The game was very one-sided for the first half). How many trick plays did you guys run against UTC?

[Sandlapper Spike]

None, really. Two fairly long TD drives, another TD set up by an interception, and a blocked punt TD.

[penguinpower]

My thoughts.............To beat the veer you have to dominate line play, be disciplined and have fast corners. I think you can get away with 2 of the 3 and win but you need at least 2 of these attributes on defense.

[eaglewraith]

My thoughts.............To beat the veer you have to dominate line play, be disciplined and have fast corners. I think you can get away with 2 of the 3 and win but you need at least 2 of these attributes on defense.

I think you're mostly right here. You don't need fast corners. If they can shake blocks they'll be ok. Safety play is actually more important than corner play. The safety is what can disrupt the perimeter run game.

[Reign of Terrier]

I may get crucified for saying this, but I think the option offense is no different than other offense in terms of "stopping it"

If you have a good defense and you stay on assignment, you'll have better luck. If not, you won't as much.

And the same goes for the offense. If you have a good offense, good personnel that stays on assignment, and personnel doesn't turn the ball over, it will do well.

The team with more discipline wins, and that generally favors the offense because it requires a little more discipline than others to run, which is why most of the time the option is successful as it is a rare offense seen. that doesn't mean it's perfect, but it's pretty damn hard to stop

[GATA]

There seems to be a basic misunderstanding among SOME fans that think the triple option only rips off big plays because the defense made a mistake...that couldn't be further from the truth.

"playing your assignment" isn't enough...you have to get off blocks...period. However, that can be said for most offenses. It's not like the pitchman is streaking down the sideline for a 70 yard run just because the guy responsible for the pitch man was "fooled." His *** got cut to the ground by an A-back who took him out of the play.

All of the teams that "stopped" GSU flat out whooped us physically. Obviously, they played "assignment" football, but hell...so do ALL of the other competently coached teams we play. When push comes to shove it comes down to athletes. App state AND NDSU got off blocks like nobody's business. I don't care what offense you're running...if you're not blocking the other guys you're ****ed.

The Delaware game from 2010 and the NDSU game from 2011 were painfully similar. Both teams had a very good defensive line which were preventing BIG runs up the middle. Both teams were also had a very athletic safety which we couldn't block for **** on the perimeter. Heagle broke up alot of plays simply by avoiding blocks that WRs and A-backs USUALLY make against lesser defensive backs.

To top it off...when GSU went to the air and hit a few big play action passes, NDSU's and Delwares' aggressive Defenses caused turnovers. The one that really killed GSU last year was when J.J. Wilcox had the ball stripped on the 5 yard line after he caught a great play action pass. Basically sucked all the life/momentum out of the team. That drive could have tied the game up I believe.

You wanna see something beautiful? Watch GSU's All-American right tackle (Brett Moore) come off the line and cut block an All-American safety (and top 10 NFL pick) from Alabama (Mark Barron) to spring Dominique Swope. I love that ****!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orQ0vbYBvEw

[seantaylor]

Speed has nothing to do with stopping the option. It all comes down to interior line play. That is the whole shebang. The idiots on ESPN have ingrained this, and rubes line up like sheep.

[PaladinFan]

Speed has nothing to do with stopping the option. It all comes down to interior line play. That is the whole shebang. The idiots on ESPN have ingrained this, and rubes line up like sheep.

I actually agree with you.

The offense relies on the ability of the B Back to force teams to respect the inside game. When you see an offense like GSU's go flat, it is because they can't run the ball up the middle, which allows defenses just to gobble them up outside.

[CropDuster]

I actually agree with you.

The offense relies on the ability of the B Back to force teams to respect the inside game. When you see an offense like GSU's go flat, it is because they can't run the ball up the middle, which allows defenses just to gobble them up outside.

Yep, that's where it all starts.

Our games against NDSU and App State last year the B back barely averaged over 3 ypc. Untimely turnovers sealed our fate, much like the UD game from 2010.

[penguinpower]

Speed has nothing to do with stopping the option. It all comes down to interior line play. That is the whole shebang. The idiots on ESPN have ingrained this, and rubes line up like sheep.

Excellent Post.

[Tribal]

I've always heard that team speed and a safety with a cast on his arm on defense are what kills the triple option, veer, and similar offenses.

Sorry to my eagles bros for bringing that up. GSU's offense, as evidenced throughout their game against Bama, is potent. It's difficult to gameplan for something you haven't seen in years...most SoCon defenses should have more aptly prepared for it after all these years.

[344Johnson]

Bingo.

Robert Brown vs. ASU (loss):

[QUOTE=GlassOnion;1809226]Yeah? Well you faced an App defense with 2 freshmen DEs and missing its All-American honorable mention starting LB and its 1st team All-Socon starting CB. Ga Southern rushed for 186 against NDSU on 48 carries, but only 135 against App on 51 carries. It doesnt get much better than that. The fact you were within 7 points has more to do with the fact the App offense sucked big time than anything dealing with defense.


NDSU has also not played a triple option offense in ages. Possibly since the D-II days. NDSU also gave up a few plays after the game was already decided. App State game went deep into the 4th quarter didn't it? I am biased, but NDSU rocked and rolled.

[Skjellyfetti]

App State game went deep into the 4th quarter didn't it?

Not because of our defense.

Georgia Southern scored on a 5 yard drive that resulted in a field goal (4 plays, 5 yards on that scoring drive).
And a punt return touchdown.
They had one good offensive drive. (12 plays 60 yards)


Georgia Southern had one good drive against NDSU as well. (12 plays 83 yards)


NDSU clearly had a better defense last year. I'm not sure if anyone is arguing otherwise or not. But, if they are... they're wrong. It's hard to either either team had a better defensive performance against Georgia Southern. Seem pretty similar to me.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Not because of our defense.

Georgia Southern scored on a 5 yard drive that resulted in a field goal (4 plays, 5 yards on that scoring drive).
And a punt return touchdown.
They had one good offensive drive. (12 plays 60 yards)


Georgia Southern had one good drive against NDSU as well. (12 plays 83 yards)


NDSU clearly had a better defense last year. I'm not sure if anyone is arguing otherwise or not. But, if they are... they're wrong. It's hard to either either team had a better defensive performance against Georgia Southern. Seem pretty similar to me.

One little analyzed dynamic in both the Semi and NC games was that both coaches didn't take opportunities when they could. They went for too many 4th downs when they had chances to put points on the board. I would contend that in NDSU's only loss to Youngstown, DJ McNorton got stripped when he had nothing but daylight in front of him on the first play of the second half and those points would have set off better chances to win the game.

Both Johnson and Fritz gave up opportunities on 4th down and it contributed to the losses.

[katstrapper]

We ALL know that option based offenses are just "gimmicks" and that you can't really compete with any team that runs a "sophisticated" pro-style scheme. It's science: If you run a "high school" offense then you're not really playing big boy football and you will never succeed.

With that being said...how is it possible that the SOCON football juggernaut known as the Chattanooga Mocs managed to lose to 3 flexbone teams in the same season?

I need answers. With pro-style schemes and superior coaching, there is no excuse for Chatty losing ALL 3 GAMES. Is it the players? Was it a fluke? Did Woffy, Citadel, and GSU all cheat?!

So you are sayng that Sam Houston couldnt compete with anyone last year with their "gimmicky offense"? Last I remember, Kats were 14-1 last year with an offense that couldnt compete.?. xnodxxlolx Where do some of these thoughts come from?

[344Johnson]

So you are sayng that Sam Houston couldnt compete with anyone last year with their "gimmicky offense"? Last I remember, Kats were 14-1 last year with an offense that couldnt compete.?. xnodxxlolx Where do some of these thoughts come from?

I believe he is saying that Chatty would have cheated similar to Woff, El Cid, and GaSo and snuck away with a victory.

[PaladinFan]

I believe he is saying that Chatty would have cheated similar to Woff, El Cid, and GaSo and snuck away with a victory.

It's a dig at our favorite poster chattownmocs most likely, who seems to think the only way to beat Chattanooga is to cheat them.

I frankly don't think it is gimmicky. Sun Tsu once said that all warfare is based on deception. Sure, the offense is a little bit of "smoke and mirrors" and "where's the ball?". Still, if you can beat me by confusing me, more power to you.