SoCon Comments on deadline given to ASU and others

[smallcollegefbfan]

I got this today. Looks like there is no deadline, despite reports by several media outlets.

SPARTANBURG, S.C. – Per Southern Conference policy, the league office will not be making any public comments regarding membership issues.

Additionally, despite numerous published reports citing a July 4th deadline, the conference office has not issued any ultimatums to its member schools regarding conference affiliation.

[jmufan999]

Where is this from? Newspaper, website, etc.???

[The Cats]

http://www.thetimesnews.com/sports/-56909--.html

[Saint3333]

Why did they wait a week to release this?

[Gringer1]

An deadline on when to announce you're leaving doesn't really make sense. How would you enforce that?

[phoenix3]

Why did they wait a week to release this?

Why did they wait a week to release what??? The original, and only, published statement to my knowledge was in the BTN on June 23. It simply said "the Southern Conference is hopeful that its member schools in play with the CAA will reach decisions - "we're staying" or "we're going" conclusions - by July 4th."

They said the same thing in the article above. The "deadline" was something dreamed up appearently due to a moonshine hangover.

[Saint3333]

Fail. It was reported in the Burlington Times (near Elon you know), Charleston Post, and a Virginia paper a week and a half ago, yet the conference waits the day before the "deadline" to make this comment. Why not make it the day or two after the articles were published?

[Apphole]

Fail. It was reported in the Burlington Times (near Elon you know), Charleston Post, and a Virginia paper a week and a half ago, yet the conference waits the day before the "deadline" to make this comment. Why not make it the day or two after the articles were published?

Because that would demonstrate competence and pro-activism. We're talking about the SoCon here.

Anyway, they have no need to go out of their way to punish ASU. The officiating every year already does a fine job.

[Seawolf97]

Of course there have been reports that nothing will come out of the CAA until maybe Christmas. So it is just wait and see and of course speculate which is fun and makes us all reliable sources -LOL

[Skjellyfetti]

Why did they wait a week to release what??? The original, and only, published statement to my knowledge was in the BTN on June 23. It simply said "the Southern Conference is hopeful that its member schools in play with the CAA will reach decisions - "we're staying" or "we're going" conclusions - by July 4th."


June 30, 2012

The Fourth of July is national day of celebration, but it could also be cause for celebration in the Colonial Athletic Association with the addition of new members.

Southern Conference officials have given Appalachian State University, the College of Charleston and Davidson College until the Fourth to declare their intentions of staying in the conference or departing to the CAA.
http://www.vagazette.com/articles/2012/06/30/sports/doc4fede7d207018228023020.txt

[SU DOG]

Check out the readers' comments at the end of the Va. Gazette article. They certainly point out just how pathetic that piece of junk reporting really is.

[wmmii]

The feedback that I have heard is that ASU is still wanting to move up in football and this would be a roadblock to joining the CAA. The northern schools want another football team and this makes Stonybrook the favorite to join for football. Also hearing good vibes about College of Charleston joining for the BB and other sports. Understand that the jury is out on Elon and think that Davidson is an automatic but not sure they want the move.

[phoenix3]

Fail. It was reported in the Burlington Times (near Elon you know), Charleston Post, and a Virginia paper a week and a half ago, yet the conference waits the day before the "deadline" to make this comment. Why not make it the day or two after the articles were published?

BTN is Burlington Times News, genius. All the other articles came after using the BTN reporter, Adam Smith as a source.

[PaladinFan]

BTN is Burlington Times News, genius. All the other articles came after using the BTN reporter, Adam Smith as a source.

Can't let facts get in the way of an opportunity to slam the SoCon.

[Saint3333]

Can't let facts get in the way of an opportunity to slam the SoCon.

Sure can't, they waited a week and half to address the rumors, communication failure. The leadership is inept.

[PaladinFan]

Sure can't, they waited a week and half to address the rumors, communication failure. The leadership is inept.

Is it your opinion that the conference needs to publicly address every rumor and poorly reported story?

Frankly, if the SoCon had to go on record every time another fly-by-night rumor popped up about Appalachian State that lacked virtually any substance, they would do nothing but that.

[Apphole]

Is it your opinion that the conference needs to publicly address every rumor and poorly reported story?

Frankly, if the SoCon had to go on record every time another fly-by-night rumor popped up about Appalachian State that lacked virtually any substance, they would do nothing but that.

It was a little more than message board chatter and suggestive tweets. It became widely accepted that those three schools had informal invites the CAA. When multiple publications substantiate things, it's something that should be addressed. Conference officials HAD to be aware. Communications 101.

That's why I'm of the opinion that this latest announcement was an attempt by the conference to save face after App, Davidson and C of C didn't fall for the empty threat/BS ultimatum that the SoCon would have no way to enforce anyway.

[Gringer1]

It was a little more than message board chatter and suggestive tweets. It became widely accepted that those three schools had informal invites the CAA. When multiple publications substantiate things, it's something that should be addressed. Conference officials HAD to be aware. Communications 101.

That's why I'm of the opinion that this latest announcement was an attempt by the conference to save face after App, Davidson and C of C didn't fall for the empty threat/BS ultimatum that the SoCon would have no way to enforce anyway.

Did you miss the part where it was explained that only 1 guy reported it and 2 others used him as their source?

[Apphole]

Did you miss the part where it was explained that only 1 guy reported it and 2 others used him as their source?

Did you miss the part when I said multiple publications substantiated it? Aka those three people substantiated it, regardless is only one is the source.

The only thing that matters is perception. Speaking of communications 101...

[PaladinFan]

It was a little more than message board chatter and suggestive tweets. It became widely accepted that those three schools had informal invites the CAA. When multiple publications substantiate things, it's something that should be addressed. Conference officials HAD to be aware. Communications 101.

That's why I'm of the opinion that this latest announcement was an attempt by the conference to save face after App, Davidson and C of C didn't fall for the empty threat/BS ultimatum that the SoCon would have no way to enforce anyway.

The only "widely accepted" maxim in this entire App moving conferences saga is that no one has any useful information about anything. App fans had already packed their collective FBS bags based on the thoughts of an "Arkansas State insider" (whatever that is).

Let me put it this way, the only "substantiated" source on the subject of App getting an invite to the CAA will come from one of two sources -- the CAA or the SoCon. Anything less than that, is the same as the reputable Arkansas State insider, which is to say, not reputable in the least. An "informal invite" is essentially akin to "nothing."

[Skjellyfetti]

The only "widely accepted" maxim in this entire App moving conferences saga is that no one has any useful information about anything. App fans had already packed their collective FBS bags based on the thoughts of an "Arkansas State insider" (whatever that is).

Let me put it this way, the only "substantiated" source on the subject of App getting an invite to the CAA will come from one of two sources -- the CAA or the SoCon. Anything less than that, is the same as the reputable Arkansas State insider, which is to say, not reputable in the least. An "informal invite" is essentially akin to "nothing."

Why does all of this bother you so much?

[fc97]

so, rumor comes out and app fans believe what they want

then rumor proved false, and app fans spin it to make themselves the victim again

lol

[PaladinFan]

Why does all of this bother you so much?

I sleep well at night either way.

Perhaps it is a character flaw, but I have quite a low tolerance for nonsense. Some of us (myself included) have grown weary of App State taking over a forum with a constant rumor mill. A rumor mill wherein nothing appears to be true. When said information is continuously unverified, and folks point that glaring fact out, it becomes (amazingly) the Conference's fault.

[Skjellyfetti]

Um, it's not like this has just been App fans.

Your Elon board:
http://elonphans.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=football&action=display&thread=2601

Oh look. Here is a thread started by fc97... who has been complaining about conference expansion rumors.

"Elon to CAA"
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?108196-Elon-to-CAA&highlight=elon+caa

Furman board:
http://www.uffp2.com/SMF20/index.php?topic=4304.0





Yeah, App fans are the only ones that get caught up in expansion rumors. It's not like the entire college football world has been caught up in them this offseason. Just App fans. xrolleyesx

[Skjellyfetti]

Some of us (myself included) have grown weary of App State taking over a forum with a constant rumor mill. A rumor mill wherein nothing appears to be true.

Oh.

So, I'm sure if I went back and looked through your posts this offseason that you have totally stayed out of the conference rumor mill speculation?

xchinscratchx

xlolx

[fc97]

whos complaining

app fans complained about the rumor that the socon gave a deadline and makes app a victim

then app fans complained that the deadline was true even though the conference said no and that app really is the victim

lol

[PaladinFan]

Oh.

So, I'm sure if I went back and looked through your posts this offseason that you have totally stayed out of the conference rumor mill speculation?

xchinscratchx

xlolx

No one has a problem with an honest discussion about conference expansion. No one has a problem with a new rumor. That's what this forum is for. My only point is App Fans should not be shocked and dismayed when other folks make honest points about the reality of their situation. They shouldn't shift the blame somewhere else.

[Sandlapper Spike]

Did you miss the part when I said multiple publications substantiated it? Aka those three people substantiated it, regardless is only one is the source.

To be honest, I'm not sure you could say "multiple publications substantiated it". It was originally reported by Adam Smith. The Post and Courier then basically said, "here is what Smith is reporting". The Gazette story didn't advance anything at all.

[Gringer1]

Did you miss the part when I said multiple publications substantiated it? Aka those three people substantiated it, regardless is only one is the source.

The only thing that matters is perception. Speaking of communications 101...

Then I guess you aren't aware of what "substantiate" means in journalistic contexts.

[Apphole]

Then I guess you aren't aware of what "substantiate" means in journalistic contexts.

I would still take "substantiate" to mean "put in print" in a journalistic context, but if you two insist, I'll recall the word "multiple" from that original post. It doesn't really change the argument. The perception was there, the conference officials likely knew its was, and there was no word from them until this week. That means: A) They really are incompetent and they didn't get the memo about the original article at all B)They knew about the Adam Smith article, but decided to let this journalist's mistake put a little pressure on the three schools in hopes that they would show their hand and publicly commit to the SoCon C)They really did set such an ultimatum, but upon further investigation, found out that it would be impossible to regulate, so they drop an announcement to save face just before the alleged "deadline."

Did I miss any?

[Saint3333]

The complaint is that a rumor was published (by three differents papers), read by many people in the SoCon area yet the conference waited until the rumored deadline's eve to make a statement. If that same fact pattern had happened in CAA country the CAA leadership would have squashed it by the second day ended any speculation.

[AshevilleApp2]

Non issue.

[fc97]

the btn posted a retraction after the fact

that didnt stop 4 others from running with it

[Skjellyfetti]

app fans have been overzealous about conference realignment rumors. no doubt about it.

the entire college football world has been, though.

even elon fans.
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?108196-Elon-to-CAA&highlight=elon+caa

[PaladinFan]

I'm sorry. I just don't see where the Southern Conference has any duty to read, or issue a statement in response to, every half-thought out article that gets published anywhere south of the Mason-Dixon line.

[ThompsonThe]

Probably just the CAA making news the back way trying to prop up the conference due to rumors of their going under.

The CAA is getting tons of free publicity out of all this and at the same time making the fans of current CAA members think that half the schools in the country might join at any time. Deflects any negative connotations that they had been receiving.

[TheRevSFA]

I heard rumors that App State is joining the Summit League in all non-football sports, and the Southland for football...

[Apphole]

I heard rumors that App State is joining the Summit League in all non-football sports, and the Southland for football...

Sweet. Anything but the SoCon, right?

[walliver]

I heard rumors that App State is joining the Summit League in all non-football sports, and the Southland for football...

I heard it was the Pioneer League for football, and the Atlantic Sun for other sports.

[fc97]

uh oh, the socon better put out a statement

[GlassOnion]

The Furman and elon fans sure didnt have a problem throwing out their spin regarding their respective schools and the CAA. As a matter of fact, the Watauga Democrat and the VaGazette's articles were both based upon a published Elon rumor. The guy cited "reports" that Elon and Furman were under consideration. Reports my eye, should have cited Elon fans craving relevancy.

[fc97]

ah ha, so now it doesnt work your way so it is to be blamed on elon fans

now the circle is complete

story isnt about app, make it about app, it becomes about app, complain about the socon, socon comes out and lays out truth, complain that truth is a lie, then blame it on the socon anyway, point it out, then it becomes about elon or private school fans

lol

[fc97]

i guess its painful to not get your ticket punched to fbs but 3 upstarts did, in front of you. then to have your only option out be in the running with the tiny little private schools you dont like. its.... ironic how it all works for you guys

[cbarrier90]

i guess its painful to not get your ticket punched to fbs but 3 upstarts did, in front of you. then to have your only option out be in the running with the tiny little private schools you dont like. its.... ironic how it all works for you guys

If you can't beat 'em, laugh at 'em when they don't get a conference invite.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't know what's worse, the really-borderline-rumor-reported-as-fact that was quoted as fact, or the official denial from the SoCon, giving unneeded credence to the rumor and making it live much longer than it deserves. Not a banner moment for either reporting or the SoCon.

Incidentally, App is still batting .000 on conference rumors. Let me help you guys out: "App to Stay In SoCon". That will improve the batting average. xlolx

[OL FU]

The Furman and elon fans sure didnt have a problem throwing out their spin regarding their respective schools and the CAA. As a matter of fact, the Watauga Democrat and the VaGazette's articles were both based upon a published Elon rumor. The guy cited "reports" that Elon and Furman were under consideration. Reports my eye, should have cited Elon fans craving relevancy.

xeyebrowx This Furman fan was worried that it might be truexrotatehxxsmhx

[ElonFirefighter]

I don't know what's worse, the really-borderline-rumor-reported-as-fact that was quoted as fact, or the official denial from the SoCon, giving unneeded credence to the rumor and making it live much longer than it deserves. Not a banner moment for either reporting or the SoCon.

Incidentally, App is still batting .000 on conference rumors. Let me help you guys out: "App to Stay In SoCon". That will improve the batting average. xlolx

IDK, With your luck app will move to the Big South and keep their BA at 0

[ElonFirefighter]

If you can't beat 'em, laugh at 'em when they don't get a conference invite.

ok sounds like fun.
xbawlingxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxrotat ehxxrotatehxxrotatehxxrotatehxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx xlolxxlolxxlolxxbawlingx

[phoenix3]

There was never an ultimatum. Never. Saying: "I'd like to know if you're staying or going", is not an ultimatum. Gosh I hope App goes FBS soon. Anywhere. Just soon. The arrogant ignorance is so tiring.

[cbarrier90]

I sleep well at night either way.

Perhaps it is a character flaw, but I have quite a low tolerance for nonsense. Some of us (myself included) have grown weary of App State taking over a forum with a constant rumor mill. A rumor mill wherein nothing appears to be true. When said information is continuously unverified, and folks point that glaring fact out, it becomes (amazingly) the Conference's fault.

No one is blaming the Southern Conference for the lack of a move by ASU.

The issue brought forth in the thread is that the SoCon appears to be, as Saint has said before, a "reactive" conference, and this move is no exception. Rather than go out and seek new members for expansion, the SoCon will sit back and perform damage control if they are raided. Rather than seek out a profitable TV deal on a legitimate sports network, they show their games on PBS.

Perhaps seeing teams like Presbyterian on the schedule would suit Furman well, but for a school that desires to expand past the ceiling it has reached here, ASU's SoCon membership is clearly not the most ideal option, hence the negativity towards the conference.

[OL FU]

No one is blaming the Southern Conference for the lack of a move by ASU.

The issue brought forth in the thread is that the SoCon appears to be, as Saint has said before, a "reactive" conference, and this move is no exception. Rather than go out and seek new members for expansion, the SoCon will sit back and perform damage control if they are raided. Rather than seek out a profitable TV deal on a legitimate sports network, they show their games on PBS.

Perhaps seeing teams like Presbyterian on the schedule would suit Furman well, but for a school that desires to expand past the ceiling it has reached here, ASU's SoCon membership is clearly not the most ideal option, hence the negativity towards the conference.

I certainly think that the SoCon has been less that proactive in some respects, but honestly, I think the SoCon not responding to rumors doesn't qualify. Just my two cents but I don't think this one is deserving of criticism.

[fc97]

so saint knows what is going? the spring meeting reports stated the conference was pursuing schools but was not releasing a list. that isnt proactive given that 3-5 members are on a rumor or more than rumor train right now? and even then, no one has any evidence that anything is going on short of some talk by mickillop and reports of cougar club meetings.

[GlassOnion]

so saint knows what is going? the spring meeting reports stated the conference was pursuing schools but was not releasing a list. that isnt proactive given that 3-5 members are on a rumor or more than rumor train right now? and even then, no one has any evidence that anything is going on short of some talk by mickillop and reports of cougar club meetings.

Aha! fc97 cant read! that explains everything!

Show me where the Socon reported "pursuing schools."

Yeah, I'll save you a couple hours, and tell you its never happened. What a load. What Imarino DID say, was that he had a short list of potential members, but hadnt shared it with anyone.

[MplsBison]

The feedback that I have heard is that ASU is still wanting to move up in football and this would be a roadblock to joining the CAA. The northern schools want another football team and this makes Stonybrook the favorite to join for football. Also hearing good vibes about College of Charleston joining for the BB and other sports. Understand that the jury is out on Elon and think that Davidson is an automatic but not sure they want the move.

Stony Brook joining the CAA football conference is possible, but they will not be joining the CAA.

[fc97]

greensboro news & record, print edition, in june, want it then go find it. it was even quoted on the mmb

[PaladinFan]

I certainly think that the SoCon has been less that proactive in some respects, but honestly, I think the SoCon not responding to rumors doesn't qualify. Just my two cents but I don't think this one is deserving of criticism.

Second.

Perhaps they should try life as an FCS independent.

[GlassOnion]

greensboro news & record, print edition, in june, want it then go find it. it was even quoted on the mmb

BS. If the Socon had said it was pursuing members we'd be posting on a 40 page thread dating back to the day it was announced.

The only article that ever mentioned Imarino's "list" was a Charleston Post/Courier article that was picked up by several other papers, and it came out on May 17th, and took all of 3 seconds to find.

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20120517/PC20/120519229

Furthermore, the Burlington Times only had 2 Socon realignment articles in June, one on the 3rd, and on onth 27th, neither of which include what you say they do. You dont know what youre talking about.

[Saint3333]

I certainly think that the SoCon has been less that proactive in some respects, but honestly, I think the SoCon not responding to rumors doesn't qualify. Just my two cents but I don't think this one is deserving of criticism.

I appreciate your comments. Why respond to it at all if you're going to wait until 7/3 to comment on it? Either put an end to it early or let the rumor go past the deadline if it never existed. The timing was suspect that has been my point all along.

When has the SoCon been proactive on anything in the last 5 years? I certainly hope we aren't in the SoCon in the next five years because the CAA will get a few members and the SoCon will not be able to replace the programs that leave.

Why doesn't the SoCon go on offense vs. defense and court a few CAA teams?

[GlassOnion]

Why doesn't the SoCon go on offense vs. defense and court a few CAA teams?

IMO, because the Socon office knows how much of a Mickey Mouse operation they really are, and that it'd be hopeless to try and raid a conference that can actually be seen on television, for one thats hopelessly lost.

[phoenix3]

Furthermore, the Burlington Times only had 2 Socon realignment articles in June, one on the 3rd, and on onth 27th, neither of which include what you say they do. You dont know what youre talking about.

Here is the JUNE 23rd article:

June 23, 2012 12:32 AM
ShareThis| Print Story | E-Mail Story
Adam Smith / Times-News
The dominoes of conference realignment and the potential next wave of movement that threaten to impact the Southern Conference could include Elon University.

The Colonial Athletic Association, with commissioner Tom Yeager on the hunt to replenish its recently depleted membership, formally has contacted Southern Conference schools Appalachian State, Davidson and College of Charleston.

Reports surfaced this week naming Elon and Furman — and Stony Brook of the America East Conference — as additional replacement options for the CAA.

Furman, a Southern Conference staple of more than seven decades, has had no official contact with the CAA, per multiple sources.

Elon, which joined the Southern Conference nine years ago, publicly has taken a silent stance on the matter.

School spokesman Dan Anderson said Elon has no comment regarding its possible role in CAA expansion. School president Leo Lambert reiterated that no-comment position when approached.

The Southern Conference is hopeful that its member schools in play with the CAA will reach decisions — “we’re staying” or “we’re going” conclusions — by July 4.

So with that as a timetable, here are some dynamics worth considering:

-- The CAA’s losses last month of Virginia Commonwealth (to the Atlantic 10 in the fall of 2012) and Old Dominion (to Conference USA in the fall of 2013) came in the wake of Georgia State opting to move to the Sun Belt in 2013.

Those departures have sent the CAA into restocking mode.

-- Appalachian State, if it were to join the CAA, would be expected to abandon its well-known pursuit of climbing from the Football Championship Subdivision to the top tier Football Bowl Subdivision, because the CAA competes on the FCS level.

Such a concession from Appalachian State appears highly unlikely, given the investment the Mountaineers have made in growing football, already their flagship sports program.

-- Most indications point to Davidson staying put in the Southern Conference.

Davidson has earned eight postseason bids in men’s basketball during the last 11 seasons — highlighted by five trips to the NCAA Tournament — and the Wildcats seem comfortable with their overall sports niche in the Southern Conference.

But there is some speculation that Davidson has pushed for the inclusion of Elon and Furman in CAA realignment talks.

Hypothetically, sources said, if Davidson and College of Charleston brought Elon and Furman on board to the CAA, the schools could be partnered with CAA member UNC Wilmington in something of a Southern division.

-- That feeds into the theory of avoiding being left behind.

Elon or Furman, for example, could view jumping to the CAA as a proactive safety measure, given the CAA’s interest in Davidson and College of Charleston, plus Appalachian State and Georgia Southern’s aspirations to step up a level in football — all of which, of course, would mean leaving and thus weakening the Southern Conference.

-- Geographically, the CAA cuts a substantial swath from Wilmington to Virginia (George Mason, James Madison, William & Mary) to the Mid-Atlantic (Delaware, Drexel, Towson) up to the Northeast (Hofstra, Northeastern).

That area expands for the CAA in football with associate members Maine, New Hampshire and Rhode Island.

Travel costs certainly would need to be weighed for potential new CAA arrivals from the Southern Conference.

-- The Southern Conference’s exit fees are $600,000 for departing with less than two years’ notice and $300,000 for leaving after more than two years of declaring those intentions.


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[fc97]

phoenix3 posted that BTN had 3 articles

and, if you want to criticize on reading ability, please comprehend what i wrote: greensboro news and record and the article clearly stated that the conference was discussing future members at the spring meetings

wow, simply, wow

[GlassOnion]

Here is the JUNE 23rd article:



Yes, and so what? Good, you posted yet another article that does not state the Socon is pursuing any school which was my point. Thanks.

If I'd been wrong, 20 posters would have jumped down my throat, but no, the Socon has never said and never insinuated it was pursuing anybody.

[wmmii]

Stony Brook joining the CAA football conference is possible, but they will not be joining the CAA.

Agreed, sorry if I was not clear...

[ASUMountaineer]

I'm sorry. I just don't see where the Southern Conference has any duty to read, or issue a statement in response to, every half-thought out article that gets published anywhere south of the Mason-Dixon line.

What about "every half-thought out article [about the SoCon] that gets published anywhere south of the Mason-Dixon line?"

I would think that the SoCon would like to respond to particular articles about the SoCon, especially if it includes "untruths." I do agree that the SoCon has no duty to read or issue a statement in response to "every half-thought out article," only the SoCon articles. But, in this situation, the SoCon clearly chose to respond, but did so with poor efficiency and effectiveness.

[ASUMountaineer]

I don't know what's worse, the really-borderline-rumor-reported-as-fact that was quoted as fact, or the official denial from the SoCon, giving unneeded credence to the rumor and making it live much longer than it deserves. Not a banner moment for either reporting or the SoCon.

Incidentally, App is still batting .000 on conference rumors. Let me help you guys out: "App to Stay In SoCon". That will improve the batting average. xlolx

This is an honest question, but why do you take such pleasure in ASU not receiving an invite to an FBS conference? You may have explained this before, if so my apologies.

[ASUMountaineer]

There was never an ultimatum. Never. Saying: "I'd like to know if you're staying or going", is not an ultimatum. Gosh I hope App goes FBS soon. Anywhere. Just soon. The arrogant ignorance is so tiring.

You sound like many App fans. However, there are ways to avoid reading posts about ASU and its efforts to move to the FBS. You should try them out, it might prevent you from being tired.

[MplsBison]

Agreed, sorry if I was not clear...

Just wanted to make it very clear. Some people think the CAA is one seemless conference. That's what Delaware wants everyone to think anyway.

The CAA football conference has the same relationship to the CAA as the MVFC has to the MVC, in reality.

[OL FU]

I appreciate your comments. Why respond to it at all if you're going to wait until 7/3 to comment on it? Either put an end to it early or let the rumor go past the deadline if it never existed. The timing was suspect that has been my point all along.

When has the SoCon been proactive on anything in the last 5 years? I certainly hope we aren't in the SoCon in the next five years because the CAA will get a few members and the SoCon will not be able to replace the programs that leave.

Why doesn't the SoCon go on offense vs. defense and court a few CAA teams?

That's a good point as to why respond at all. I assume at some point when rumors are running wild, you are forced to (Which I know is not pro-active:D). I just think of all the legitimate criticisms, this one falls a little short.xtwocentsx

[fc97]

who says the socon hasnt been proactive. its not just proactive for the socon it also falls on the schools

[Skjellyfetti]

Incidentally, App is still batting .000 on conference rumors. Let me help you guys out: "App to Stay In SoCon". That will improve the batting average. xlolx

What's your blog's batting percentage on rumor and innuendo? xcoffeex

[PaladinFan]

who says the socon hasnt been proactive. its not just proactive for the socon it also falls on the schools

Bear in mind the CAA is the conference losing 25% of its membership, not the SoCon. The CAA has little choice other than to court other institutions. The SoCon has no such need. Call that reactive if you want.

[chattanoogamocs]

As I pointed out on Mocfans.

Outside of one or two major conferences (SEC, etc)...everyone else has basically no choice but to be reactive.

You can't book a room at a hotel until there is an actual vacancy.

[Saint3333]

Bear in mind the CAA is the conference losing 25% of its membership, not the SoCon. The CAA has little choice other than to court other institutions. The SoCon has no such need. Call that reactive if you want.

The SoCon is acting like the Big East compared to the ACC.

[fc97]

appalachian state is trying to leave, what do you want the conference to do

[Saint3333]

Make an attempt to steal from the CAA, play offense not just defense. Even if App does get an opportunity to leave I'd hate to see the SoCon turn into the Big South.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Stony Brook joining the CAA football conference is possible, but they will not be joining the CAA.

Gosh, Mpls, you keep coming up with new sig quotes for me! Thanks!

[MplsBison]

Gosh, Mpls, you keep coming up with new sig quotes for me! Thanks!

If you'd like to keep making signatures out of my correct statements, be my guest.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

xlolx

Some of the statements that a few App fans make are totally worth it because it really gives me joy to see the circular reasoning on how they get to "who should we blame this time?" thing.

AA2 just had to step in and throw some logic in to decrease my enjoyment.

It has been posted so often about the perception thing and that it is reality. Ok then, in reality I would have tears rolling listening to some of this logic in person so I truly hope to hear it when in Boone.

Awesome fella's...thanks.xthumbsupx

[ElonPride]

xlolx

Some of the statements that a few App fans make are totally worth it because it really gives me joy to see the circular reasoning on how they get to "who should we blame this time?" thing.

AA2 just had to step in and throw some logic in to decrease my enjoyment.

It has been posted so often about the perception thing and that it is reality. Ok then, in reality I would have tears rolling listening to some of this logic in person so I truly hope to hear it when in Boone.

Awesome fella's...thanks.xthumbsupx

+1

[SoCon48]

I certainly think that the SoCon has been less that proactive in some respects, but honestly, I think the SoCon not responding to rumors doesn't qualify. Just my two cents but I don't think this one is deserving of criticism.


You're right.

[Apphole]

xlolx

Some of the statements that a few App fans make are totally worth it because it really gives me joy to see the circular reasoning on how they get to "who should we blame this time?" thing.

AA2 just had to step in and throw some logic in to decrease my enjoyment.

It has been posted so often about the perception thing and that it is reality. Ok then, in reality I would have tears rolling listening to some of this logic in person so I truly hope to hear it when in Boone.

Awesome fella's...thanks.xthumbsupx

.....So you're coming? Take a sip from my mason jar and perhaps you will forsake logic as well. It will at least take the edge of seeing the Griz get their asses kicked in front of 34 thousand App fans. I'm growing a mullet just for you.

[cbarrier90]

xlolx

Some of the statements that a few App fans make are totally worth it because it really gives me joy to see the circular reasoning on how they get to "who should we blame this time?" thing.

AA2 just had to step in and throw some logic in to decrease my enjoyment.

It has been posted so often about the perception thing and that it is reality. Ok then, in reality I would have tears rolling listening to some of this logic in person so I truly hope to hear it when in Boone.

Awesome fella's...thanks.xthumbsupx

We look forward to your arrival. September can't come soon enough! xthumbsupx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

.....So you're coming? Take a sip from my mason jar and perhaps you will forsake logic as well. It will at least take the edge of seeing the Griz get their asses kicked in front of 34 thousand App fans. I'm growing a mullet just for you.

There's a first time for everything so good luck and I will have some of that mind altering liquid to go along with it as well.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

We look forward to your arrival. September can't come soon enough! xthumbsupx

Trudat holmes.

[phoenix3]

There's a first time for everything so good luck and I will have some of that mind altering liquid to go along with it as well.

Haha. Watch out! Win or lose you'll leave dumber than you came.

[phoenix3]

xlolx

Some of the statements that a few App fans make are totally worth it because it really gives me joy to see the circular reasoning on how they get to "who should we blame this time?" thing.

Yes!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Haha. Watch out! Win or lose you'll leave dumber than you came.

That hardly seems possible.

[fc97]

saint, what caa teams should the socon steal with their $1 million exit fee plus the socon $500 thousand entrance fee

richmond is off as an all sports member, the socon has never in its history taken a football only member why would they take the hit plus entrance here?

william and mary would be a good candidate, but $1 million + 500 is steep for a school with the budget comparable to elon.

uncw offers olympic sports only and has a $1 million exit fee + 500 is steep for a school with a budget like uncg and doesnt help with the two football gaps the socon will have

towson as unhappy in the big south because of travel, wouldnt work here and would really hurt utc and samford for travel

james madison is off the table as a long term member

delaware is off the table and way far away

jacksonville state is off the table as a long term member

liberty is off the table as a long term member

that leaves coastal carolina as the only viable choice, or ovc schools, hampton or kennesaw state which is where the conference is rumored to be looking

so, tell us saint, how is the socon to be proactive. no one has left yet. there are no current holes to fill. no one is privy to any news. how are any caa schools going to work here

[cbarrier90]

Haha. Watch out! Win or lose you'll leave dumber than you came.

Is that the best you can do? The overplayed "dumb mountain men" smack?

We need more originality!

[Saint3333]

Haha. Watch out! Win or lose you'll leave dumber than you came.

How would you know Elon has never won there?

[Saint3333]

saint, what caa teams should the socon steal with their $1 million exit fee plus the socon $500 thousand entrance fee

richmond is off as an all sports member, the socon has never in its history taken a football only member why would they take the hit plus entrance here?

william and mary would be a good candidate, but $1 million + 500 is steep for a school with the budget comparable to elon.

uncw offers olympic sports only and has a $1 million exit fee + 500 is steep for a school with a budget like uncg and doesnt help with the two football gaps the socon will have

towson as unhappy in the big south because of travel, wouldnt work here and would really hurt utc and samford for travel

james madison is off the table as a long term member

delaware is off the table and way far away

jacksonville state is off the table as a long term member

liberty is off the table as a long term member

that leaves coastal carolina as the only viable choice, or ovc schools, hampton or kennesaw state which is where the conference is rumored to be looking

so, tell us saint, how is the socon to be proactive. no one has left yet. there are no current holes to fill. no one is privy to any news. how are any caa schools going to work here

Just try is all I'm asking. And for record I said this prior to the raise in the exit fee.

While we're asking questions tell me one time the SoCon has been proactive?

[phoenix3]

How would you know Elon has never won there?

Great. More of that white hot incisive logic again, Saint?

[ASUMountaineer]

xlolx

Some of the statements that a few App fans make are totally worth it because it really gives me joy to see the circular reasoning on how they get to "who should we blame this time?" thing.

AA2 just had to step in and throw some logic in to decrease my enjoyment.

It has been posted so often about the perception thing and that it is reality. Ok then, in reality I would have tears rolling listening to some of this logic in person so I truly hope to hear it when in Boone.

Awesome fella's...thanks.xthumbsupx

Glad you're heading to Boone. I hope you bring a large contingent with you, including but not limited to: Chris, AZGrizFan, Polson, Grizo, etc. If nothing else, it will let us have tears rolling!

[Saint3333]

Great. More of that white hot incisive logic again, Saint?

"you'll leave dumber win or lose" type comments warrant a smack down of reality. You'd have to be 55 to remember the last time Elon beat App.

[344Johnson]

.....So you're coming? Take a sip from my mason jar and perhaps you will forsake logic as well. It will at least take the edge of seeing the Griz get their asses kicked in front of 34 thousand App fans. I'm growing a mullet just for you.

I was under the impression that App State could hold only about 30,000 at the most? What is this 34,000 fans talk?

And I dont imagine the Griz getting kicked around.

[GSU EAGLES]

Because that would demonstrate competence and pro-activism. We're talking about the SoCon here.

Anyway, they have no need to go out of their way to punish ASU. The officiating every year already does a fine job.

You must have forgotten the Quick bobble against GSU. SoCon officials gave ASU a win with that one.

[SoCon48]

You must have forgotten the Quick bobble against GSU. SoCon officials gave ASU a win with that one.

In your opinion.

[smallcollegefbfan]

You must have forgotten the Quick bobble against GSU. SoCon officials gave ASU a win with that one.

Check out his highlights on Youtube. It was clearly a catch and an impressive one. He's had 3 of his best catches against GSU and I'll remind everyone that GSU has had some good DBs. Quick is like Mellette, he played well against good players in college the last two years.

[fc97]

you have no idea if the socon is being proactive or not. when samford was taken, then socon had visited five schools and debated three of those before samford was invited

you have no idea what they are doing now, and what do you want to do, have then take in 2 or 3 other schools that fit with everyone but appalachian so we can hear you complain about the reactive decision because it isnt what you wanted?

[Saint3333]

I know more than you'd like to believe.

[seantaylor]

Check out his highlights on Youtube. It was clearly a catch and an impressive one. He's had 3 of his best catches against GSU and I'll remind everyone that GSU has had some good DBs. Quick is like Mellette, he played well against good players in college the last two years.

Nowhere near a catch. One of the worst calls I've ever seen, and the guy was in prime position.

[Skjellyfetti]

Are y'all still crying about that?

[cbarrier90]

Are y'all still crying about that?

Nevermind the fact that GSU had three more offensive drives to respond and failed to do so on all three...

[GlassOnion]

Lets see how GSU fared against both teams.

Total offense against App State, 201 yards. Total offense against NDSU, 333 yards.
2.6 yards per carry against App. 3.9 yards per carry against NDSU.
average gain per play against App, 3.2 yards. Average gain per play against NDSU, 4.9 yards.
Jaybo was 4 of 10 with 2 Interceptions at App, Jayo was 11 of 18 with 0 interceptions at NDSU.
First Downs against App 11. First down against NDSU, 18.

And, the App State defense had to do this with their offense sputtering along, and two of its starters out, and 2 freshmen DEs as I pointed out before. How many GSU drives against NDSU started in the NDSU redzone?

NDSU had the benefit of 450 yards of offense, and 9 yards a carry. App's defense had zero help from the offense.

If you want to compare defenses against that same GSU offense, App was the more impressive, especially gifting GSU with short fields and clamping down in the redzone time after time. If you want the most complete season long defense, and most complete team, its obviously NDSU.

[CID1990]

I love you guys arguing past results.

[GlassOnion]

I love you guys arguing past results.

Yeah, The Citadel doesnt really want to get into their own results, better to watch from the sideline.

[MplsBison]

Lets see how GSU fared against both teams.

Total offense against App State, 201 yards. Total offense against NDSU, 333 yards.
2.6 yards per carry against App. 3.9 yards per carry against NDSU.
average gain per play against App, 3.2 yards. Average gain per play against NDSU, 4.9 yards.
Jaybo was 4 of 10 with 2 Interceptions at App, Jayo was 11 of 18 with 0 interceptions at NDSU.
First Downs against App 11. First down against NDSU, 18.

And, the App State defense had to do this with their offense sputtering along, and two of its starters out, and 2 freshmen DEs as I pointed out before. How many GSU drives against NDSU started in the NDSU redzone?

NDSU had the benefit of 450 yards of offense, and 9 yards a carry. App's defense had zero help from the offense.

If you want to compare defenses against that same GSU offense, App was the more impressive, especially gifting GSU with short fields and clamping down in the redzone time after time. If you want the most complete season long defense, and most complete team, its obviously NDSU.

It's obvious that GSU played much, much worse against App St than they did against NDSU.

If GSU offense played as well against App as they did in Fargo, they would've gained 600 yards against App.

[asumike83]

It's obvious that GSU played much, much worse against App St than they did against NDSU.

If GSU offense played as well against App as they did in Fargo, they would've gained 600 yards against App.


Right. The fact that the Appalachian defense is much more familiar with triple option offenses and defended it almost perfectly obviously had nothing to do with it.

[MplsBison]

Right. The fact that the Appalachian defense is much more familiar with triple option offenses and defended it almost perfectly obviously had nothing to do with it.

I think Bohl knows a thing or two about defending triple option offenses.

Obviously NDSU's defense was more talented than App's last year, NDSU was the national champion - App wasn't. Therefore, GSU must've just played harder and better in Fargo.

[Saint3333]

Can we have a match to the death with mpls and chattown, loser leaves town?

[asumike83]

I think Bohl knows a thing or two about defending triple option offenses.

Obviously NDSU's defense was more talented than App's last year, NDSU was the national champion - App wasn't. Therefore, GSU must've just played harder and better in Fargo.

I never said or implied that the Appalachian defense was more talented or that Bohl doesn't know plenty about option offenses. It is the players on the field that make the plays and the ASU defense, as I said, is more familiar with defending the option because they see it three times a year in conference. That was a factor in our ability to better hold them down, not because they didn't play hard enough against their biggest rival.

[SoCon48]

Great. More of that white hot incisive logic again, Saint?

:)

[GlassOnion]

I think Bohl knows a thing or two about defending triple option offenses.

Obviously NDSU's defense was more talented than App's last year, NDSU was the national champion - App wasn't. Therefore, GSU must've just played harder and better in Fargo.

Thats a dumb conclusion. Defense is only on the field less than half of the game. Two Apps off of last season's defense are in NFL camps, and 3 more are likely to have the chance after next season.

[MplsBison]

Defense wins championships. END

NDSU had a very average offense, just look at the national championship game. They had a dominating, oppressive defense. The best in the country at the I-AA level.

Glad you had two guys get invited to tryouts. Good luck to them. Obviously goes to show you that it takes more than 11 talented guys to have a top defense at the I-AA level.

[GlassOnion]

Defense wins championships. END

NDSU had a very average offense, just look at the national championship game. They had a dominating, oppressive defense. The best in the country at the I-AA level.

Glad you had two guys get invited to tryouts. Good luck to them. Obviously goes to show you that it takes more than 11 talented guys to have a top defense at the I-AA level.

Of course your offense looked average, you played the #3 defense in the country at Sam Houston. Thats what happens when you play a good defense.

[344Johnson]

It's obvious that GSU played much, much worse against App St than they did against NDSU.

If GSU offense played as well against App as they did in Fargo, they would've gained 600 yards against App.

600 yards eh? I wasn't aware that App State's defense can be compared to a D-II school.


I think Bohl knows a thing or two about defending triple option offenses.

Obviously NDSU's defense was more talented than App's last year, NDSU was the national champion - App wasn't. Therefore, GSU must've just played harder and better in Fargo.

Or maybe Appalachian State had a great game against GSU and it certainly helps that they are familiar with the option.

Oh! Nevermind, GSU just played harder and better in Fargo...just as MPLS.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

It's obvious that GSU played much, much worse against App St than they did against NDSU.

If GSU offense played as well against App as they did in Fargo, they would've gained 600 yards against App.

I watched both games. In both games we had several costly turnovers, in both games the defense forced the QB run and Shaw couldn't create big gains. We really were definitely not able to handle the crowd noise in Fargo which was a good bit louder and rowdier than KBS (on this particular year at least). I don't think I can really say NDSU's defense was better than App's.


App. State didn't make it far in the playoffs because their offensive play-calling was horrendous most of the year.

[MplsBison]

Of course your offense looked average, you played the #3 defense in the country at Sam Houston. Thats what happens when you play a good defense.

They had a pretty good defense, not good enough to win the game of course.

But NDSU offense also played very average. Take away the screen pass to DJ - no passing.


Just like when GSU played App St. Very average offensive performance. They played much better against NDSU's defense, hence the difference in stats.

[MplsBison]

I watched both games. In both games we had several costly turnovers, in both games the defense forced the QB run and Shaw couldn't create big gains. We really were definitely not able to handle the crowd noise in Fargo which was a good bit louder and rowdier than KBS (on this particular year at least). I don't think I can really say NDSU's defense was better than App's.


App. State didn't make it far in the playoffs because their offensive play-calling was horrendous most of the year.

You can go ahead and say it. NDSU won the national championship on the back of its oppressive defense. It was better than App's D.

[cbarrier90]

You can go ahead and say it. NDSU won the national championship on the back of its oppressive defense. It was better than App's D.

NDSU won the national championship because they were the most consistent team week-in and week-out last season, along with Sam Houston.

Given the circumstances surrounding ASU's season at the time of the GSU game, I would give the edge to ASU as far as impressive performance is concerned. GSU, at the time, was undefeated and looked to be in cruise control through the Southern Conference season. Meanwhile, a young, rebuilding ASU squad had been shellacked by Virginia Tech on opening week, dominated by a triple option in Wofford, and nearly choked away a 49-14 lead at The Citadel, another triple option squad. Add to that the QB controversy, suspensions, and scandals surrounding the program amidst the season.

For one Saturday (technically, one half, because they almost choked it away in the second half because of the same offensive woes which ailed them all season) ASU looked like a championship caliber team, and it was the most inspiring brand of ASU football I had seen in a long time. It also put ASU in the drivers seat to share a SoCon championship, but, true to the form of this team, they blew that opportunity at Furman next week, because of, surprise!, offensive issues.

NDSU, meanwhile, was a buzzsaw throughout the season and always clicked on all cylinders (save for one game against Youngstown State.) And though NDSU may have the statistics and score to suggest a better performance, ASU was the first to expose GSU's weaknesses. In addition, GSU's FB Robert Brown did not play against NDSU.

Besides, if a GSU and App fan agree that ASU had offensive issues, chances are they had offensive issues.

You almost make me miss Lakes.

[344Johnson]

You almost make me miss Lakes.

PumP iT uPPPP!!! I aM TAILGATING anD DRinKIng iN ThE RAINFOREST! NDSU kICkS ***! ruMORs tO BIG XII!!!

do you still almost miss lakes after an excerpt of lakes-style posting?

[seantaylor]

NDSU had a far better D than Appy. We just played terrible in Boone. Jaybo Shaw is a liability in the option against teams with good defenses.

[cbarrier90]

PumP iT uPPPP!!! I aM TAILGATING anD DRinKIng iN ThE RAINFOREST! NDSU kICkS ***! ruMORs tO BIG XII!!!

do you still almost miss lakes after an excerpt of lakes-style posting?

I said "almost"...

[ASUMountaineer]

Nowhere near a catch. One of the worst calls I've ever seen, and the guy was in prime position.

16576

[Eaglesrus]

What's the next twist for this thread? If I've read it correctly, so far it's been very impressive:

Started with "SoCon Comments on deadline given to ASU and others". Shifted to:

is the SoCon proactive and or did it need to be in this case, then to:

why do App Staters feel so persecuted? Then it was on to:

Did Quick really make the catch to win the game in the GSU - AppState game in 2011? Followed by:

Which had the better defense in 2011, App State or NDSU?

I'm sure I missed something in there, but I look forward to seeing how much further off topic we can go!

[MplsBison]

NDSU had a far better D than Appy. We just played terrible in Boone. Jaybo Shaw is a liability in the option against teams with good defenses.

Finally, an honest comment.

You're never going to get an ASU fan admitting the truth on this board. Nope, a team that didn't even win the SoCon must've had at least as good a defense as the national champion.

[GlassOnion]

Finally, an honest comment.

You're never going to get an ASU fan admitting the truth on this board. Nope, a team that didn't even win the SoCon must've had at least as good a defense as the national champion.

The sky is blue.

Look, youre wrong again. Add that to your tally.

[Apphole]

a team that didn't even win the SoCon

I'll attack this little excerpt since you already have your hands full defending you stupid comments as a whole.

The SoCon is significantly more competitive than the MVFC.

[TheRevSFA]

Just a side note..it's July 9th.

No App invites yet?

[ASUMountaineer]

Finally, an honest comment.

You're never going to get an ASU fan admitting the truth on this board. Nope, a team that didn't even win the SoCon must've had at least as good a defense as the national champion.

I am not sure ASU fans have been arguing ASU had a superior D to NDSU (ASU didn't). I think the argument has been about the one common opponent in Georgia Southern.

Your argument is that NDSU won the national championship, therefore their D against GSU was better than ASU's D against GSU. Winning the title doesn't really speak to the GSU game for either D (GSU lost both games). ASU's D put up better stats against GSU than NDSU's did. Stats also do not tell the whole story.

You also believe that GSU's offense played worse against ASU than it did against NDSU (which is possible), I'm going to assume you watched both games. How much did ASU's D impact GSU's offense? Did ASU impact it at all?

Also, seantaylor's comment is not clear. He states that GSU played "terrible" against ASU. He then says Jaybo was a "liability" against "teams with good defenses." Jaybo threw two interceptions against ASU and was held in check throughout the day. So, does that mean that seantaylor is calling ASU's D good? Or, did ASU's D look good because Jaybo was a liability?

Lastly, this "debate" is silly. There's really no objective way to determine which D played better against GSU (even the stats are not conclusive). There is no discussion about which D was better overall--the clear answer is NDSU's.

[ASUMountaineer]

Just a side note..it's July 9th.

No App invites yet?

What?!?!? Are you effing kidding me?!?!? Still?!?!?

[GlassOnion]

There is no discussion about which D was better overall--the clear answer is NDSU's.

Which has already been acknowledged, but Mpls chooses to believe that offering an opinion and backing it up with real numbers is some unheard of and egregious folly, on a message board none the less. Unless the opinion is his own of course, in which case no supporting facts or numbers required.

[TheRevSFA]

What?!?!? Are you effing kidding me?!?!? Still?!?!?

Worth repping

[MplsBison]

I'll attack this little excerpt since you already have your hands full defending you stupid comments as a whole.

The SoCon is significantly more competitive than the MVFC.

MVFC was is significantly more competitive than the SoCon, a conference that didn't have a team in the national title game.

[MplsBison]

I am not sure ASU fans have been arguing ASU had a superior D to NDSU (ASU didn't). I think the argument has been about the one common opponent in Georgia Southern.

Your argument is that NDSU won the national championship, therefore their D against GSU was better than ASU's D against GSU. Winning the title doesn't really speak to the GSU game for either D (GSU lost both games). ASU's D put up better stats against GSU than NDSU's did. Stats also do not tell the whole story.

You also believe that GSU's offense played worse against ASU than it did against NDSU (which is possible), I'm going to assume you watched both games. How much did ASU's D impact GSU's offense? Did ASU impact it at all?

Also, seantaylor's comment is not clear. He states that GSU played "terrible" against ASU. He then says Jaybo was a "liability" against "teams with good defenses." Jaybo threw two interceptions against ASU and was held in check throughout the day. So, does that mean that seantaylor is calling ASU's D good? Or, did ASU's D look good because Jaybo was a liability?

Lastly, this "debate" is silly. There's really no objective way to determine which D played better against GSU (even the stats are not conclusive). There is no discussion about which D was better overall--the clear answer is NDSU's.

My argument starts from the fact that NDSU was national champion and championships are won with defense.

Therefore, NDSU had the best defense in the nation. That's a correct statement.


Thus, for GSU to have better offensive statistics against NDSU's defense than it did against ASU's defense, which was just previously proven inferior to NDSU's (and now an ASU fan admits as much), can only force one conclusion: GSU's offense must've just played poorly against ASU than they did against NDSU.


No other correct way to look at it.

[Apphole]

MVFC was is significantly more competitive than the SoCon, a conference that didn't have a team in the national title game.

I think Lakes murdered Mpls and took control of his computer. You can't possibly believe this can you?


No other correct way to look at it.

Ah. Here is the fundamental problem with your logic. There actually is another way to look at it.

[GlassOnion]

No other correct way to look at it.

Thats it, theres only one way to do anything.

Oh how I hope youre not a politician, we're screwed as it is.

[asumike83]

My argument starts from the fact that NDSU was national champion and championships are won with defense.

Therefore, NDSU had the best defense in the nation. That's a correct statement.


Thus, for GSU to have better offensive statistics against NDSU's defense than it did against ASU's defense, which was just previously proven inferior to NDSU's (and now an ASU fan admits as much), can only force one conclusion: GSU's offense must've just played poorly against ASU than they did against NDSU.

An ASU fan admitted such a while ago. GlassOnion already stated that NDSU had the better overall defense but you chose not to read that part apparently.


If you want to compare defenses against that same GSU offense, App was the more impressive, especially gifting GSU with short fields and clamping down in the redzone time after time. If you want the most complete season long defense, and most complete team, its obviously NDSU.


No other correct way to look at it.

There is definitely another way to look at it. NDSU had a better overall defense, ASU is better at defending the option. We see it three times a year in conference. One of the things that makes option offenses effective if that it is completely unnatural to defend when you're accustomed to traditional schemes and have limited time to prepare for it. When you see it as often as SoCon teams do, that is not a concern.

[PaladinFan]

An ASU fan admitted such a while ago. GlassOnion already stated that NDSU had the better overall defense but you chose not to read that part apparently.





There is definitely another way to look at it. NDSU had a better overall defense, ASU is better at defending the option. We see it three times a year in conference. One of the things that makes option offenses effective if that it is completely unnatural to defend when you're accustomed to traditional schemes and have limited time to prepare for it. When you see it as often as SoCon teams do, that is not a concern.

Furman, for years, would schedule Georgia Southern and Wofford back to back and put their off week before both. Gave them an extra week to prepare for the option, and then got to see it twice in a row.

It cannot be underestimated that a lot of the beauty of the option game is how difficult it is to prepare for in a week. Scout team has to basically learn an entire new offense. Most teams don't have personnel to replicate it and end up putting non-quarterbacks in their to run the offense, which takes away from the level of difficulty in practice.

[Apphole]

Furman, for years, would schedule Georgia Southern and Wofford back to back and put their off week before both. Gave them an extra week to prepare for the option, and then got to see it twice in a row.

It cannot be underestimated that a lot of the beauty of the option game is how difficult it is to prepare for in a week. Scout team has to basically learn an entire new offense. Most teams don't have personnel to replicate it and end up putting non-quarterbacks in their to run the offense, which takes away from the level of difficulty in practice.

Excellent point. It takes a long time to run the TO well for starters, let alone scout team players. The best way to prepare for a TO team is to play a TO team. ie App losing to Wofford first, almost getting come back on but pulling out a win at the Citadel and beating GSU, the toughest TO of the 2011 season.

The triple option is perfectly suited for the playoff season. They're running a damn scam in Stinkboro.

[PaladinFan]

Excellent point. It takes a long time to run the TO well for starters, let alone scout team players. The best way to prepare for a TO team is to play a TO team. ie App losing to Wofford first, almost getting come back on but pulling out a win at the Citadel and beating GSU, the toughest TO of the 2011 season.

The triple option is perfectly suited for the playoff season. They're running a damn scam in Stinkboro.

Right. Look at Furman in 2011. GSU blew the doors off the Paladins in Statesboro, and the next week Wofford could barely move the ball in Greenville.

[ASUMountaineer]

Worth repping

xlolx

[ASUMountaineer]

My argument starts from the fact that NDSU was national champion and championships are won with defense.

Therefore, NDSU had the best defense in the nation. That's a correct statement. Where did I disagree?


Thus, for GSU to have better offensive statistics against NDSU's defense than it did against ASU's defense, which was just previously proven inferior to NDSU's (and now an ASU fan admits as much), can only force one conclusion: GSU's offense must've just played poorly against ASU than they did against NDSU.


No other correct way to look at it. Sure about that?

xlolx

So, by your logic, it is entirely possible for GSU's offense to play poorly in one game but impossible for NDSU's D to to play poorly in one game?

As pointed out earlier, it also possible that ASU is more familiar with the TO offense and better suited to defend it.

Impressive analysis nevertheless. Your analysis is clearly foolproof...proof there are fools.

[MplsBison]

I think Lakes murdered Mpls and took control of his computer. You can't possibly believe this can you?



Ah. Here is the fundamental problem with your logic. There actually is another way to look at it.

MVFC would take minimum 6 of 9 from the SoCon in a crossover. Simple fact.

I clearly said "no other correct way to look at it". Yes you can look at it any way you want, but they're all wrong.

[MplsBison]

An ASU fan admitted such a while ago. GlassOnion already stated that NDSU had the better overall defense but you chose not to read that part apparently.





There is definitely another way to look at it. NDSU had a better overall defense, ASU is better at defending the option. We see it three times a year in conference. One of the things that makes option offenses effective if that it is completely unnatural to defend when you're accustomed to traditional schemes and have limited time to prepare for it. When you see it as often as SoCon teams do, that is not a concern.

Wow, same dysfunction in two ASU posters? Coincidence? I said no other correct way to look at it. You're free to look however you want, it's just wrong.

That's a nice hypothesis, but of course completely bunk. The only fools who think the option is so different that it's harder to defend are the few weirdo coaches who run it. Defenses adjust just fine within a couple drives, at most. Then it comes down to a simple matter of talent and discipline, just like every defensive against every offensive scheme. No different.

[MplsBison]

Excellent point. It takes a long time to run the TO well for starters, let alone scout team players. The best way to prepare for a TO team is to play a TO team. ie App losing to Wofford first, almost getting come back on but pulling out a win at the Citadel and beating GSU, the toughest TO of the 2011 season.

The triple option is perfectly suited for the playoff season. They're running a damn scam in Stinkboro.

Except if you have a talented defense that is disciplined. Like NDSU's defense.

Then it's absolutely no different than any other offensive scheme. They're all scams...doing anything they can to put the ball across the goalline. I bet you hate well executed screen passes and reverses too, right? Scams?

[MplsBison]

xlolx

So, by your logic, it is entirely possible for GSU's offense to play poorly in one game but impossible for NDSU's D to to play poorly in one game?

As pointed out earlier, it also possible that ASU is more familiar with the TO offense and better suited to defend it.

Impressive analysis nevertheless. Your analysis is clearly foolproof...proof there are fools.

Not when NDSU's defense won the national championship. Like I said, that's the cornerstone of the logic - one which you can't crack.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Wow, same dysfunction in two ASU posters? Coincidence? I said no other correct way to look at it. You're free to look however you want, it's just wrong.

That's a nice hypothesis, but of course completely bunk. The only fools who think the option is so different that it's harder to defend are the few weirdo coaches who run it. Defenses adjust just fine within a couple drives, at most. Then it comes down to a simple matter of talent and discipline, just like every defensive against every offensive scheme. No different.

Why do you think GSU has the best playoff winning percentage of all FCS teams and the most playoff wins?
And how are GSU and App. State 6-2 and 3-0 in the national championship game while Montana is 2-5?
Why do you think GSU was able to do well against an almost immovable Alabama defense last year?
Why did App. do so much better after switching from the Power I to the spread?

Offensive scheme, offensive scheme, offensive scheme change, and offensive scheme.

[MplsBison]

Why do you think GSU has the best playoff winning percentage of all FCS teams and the most playoff wins?
And how are GSU and App. State 6-2 and 3-0 in the national championship game while Montana is 2-5?
Why do you think GSU was able to do well against an almost immovable Alabama defense last year?
Why did App. do so much better after switching from the Power I to the spread?

Offensive scheme, offensive scheme, offensive scheme change, and offensive scheme.

Nope, nope and nope.

Scheme have nothing to do with anything, in the long run over the season. You can line up any way you want, have your players spin around in circles and dance like clowns.


End of the day it's your 11 men vs. the other team's 11 men, man vs. man. There's only so many things a human can do (block, juke, swim, spin, jump, run, etc.) and if enough of their 11 men beat enough of your 11 men, they're going to win the play.

Utterly, the END.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Nope, nope and nope.

Scheme have nothing to do with anything, in the long run over the season. You can line up any way you want, have your players spin around in circles and dance like clowns.


End of the day it's your 11 men vs. the other team's 11 men, man vs. man. There's only so many things a human can do (block, juke, swim, spin, jump, run, etc.) and if enough of their 11 men beat enough of your 11 men, they're going to win the play.

Utterly, the END.

You didn't answer my questions.

[danefan]

So how about those July 4th announcements?

[Apphole]

So how about those July 4th announcements?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l31UUl5SyXk

[ASUMountaineer]

Not when NDSU's defense won the national championship. Like I said, that's the cornerstone of the logic - one which you can't crack.

Right. So, what happened against Youngstown State?

Your logic is flawed because no one is comparing the defenses overall. The argument is comparing a game against a common opponent. Thus, only that game is relevant. You'll notice that I haven't even said which defense I thought played better against GSU, I simply jumped in to question your clearly flawed logic.

It truly means nothing which D played better against GSU because GSU lost both games (which was awesome). However, showing the fallacies in your arguments is a tradition just like The Masters, fireworks on the 4th of July, and Western Carolina not having a football team.

[asumike83]

Wow, same dysfunction in two ASU posters? Coincidence? I said no other correct way to look at it. You're free to look however you want, it's just wrong.

That's a nice hypothesis, but of course completely bunk. The only fools who think the option is so different that it's harder to defend are the few weirdo coaches who run it. Defenses adjust just fine within a couple drives, at most. Then it comes down to a simple matter of talent and discipline, just like every defensive against every offensive scheme. No different.

I'm certainly in no position to argue with your experience of looking at things however they want regardless of being wrong.

Every defensive coach I've ever heard talk about defending the option (including coaches that were screaming and grabbing me by the facemask), have said otherwise but I'm sure you're an expert on defending option offenses. I would say just ask Bohl's mentor Frank Solich his opinion on how difficult it is to defend but apparently he is merely a foolish weirdo coach.

[344Johnson]

[QUOTE=MplsBison;1810403]MVFC was is significantly more competitive than the SoCon, a conference that didn't have a team in the national title game.

Steelers have had seasons where they had the #1 defense and didn't end up winning/making it to the super bowl. apparently their defense wasn't the best because it is their fault that the Steeler offense would not score.

Mpls is officially worse than Lakes. At least Lakes respected the other big teams in the FCS.

[344Johnson]

I'm certainly in no position to argue with your experience of looking at things however they want regardless of being wrong.

Every defensive coach I've ever heard talk about defending the triple option (including coaches that were screaming and grabbing me by the facemask), have said otherwise but I'm sure you're an expert on defending option offenses. I would say just ask Bohl's mentor Frank Solich his opinion on how difficult it is to defend but apparently he is a foolish weirdo coach.

We ran it in high school and got shut down on almost every series :( granted, we also sucked.

[AshevilleApp2]

Ya'll are wasting your time with MplsBison, although I am enjoying the thread. xnodx

I spent too much of my time arguing with him a few years back that Boone wasn't a complete backwater with all its residents living in abject poverty.

[PaladinFan]

I'm certainly in no position to argue with your experience of looking at things however they want regardless of being wrong.

Every defensive coach I've ever heard talk about defending the option (including coaches that were screaming and grabbing me by the facemask), have said otherwise but I'm sure you're an expert on defending option offenses. I would say just ask Bohl's mentor Frank Solich his opinion on how difficult it is to defend but apparently he is merely a foolish weirdo coach.

I noted this earlier, Furman probably has more experience defending the triple option than any division 1 program in the country. If any team had figured it out by now, it would be Furman. Over the past 30 years, Furman has had plenty of talented and disciplined players, and it still ain't easy to stop.

[fc97]

interesting comments from adam smith yesterday in the soconverstaion, the first focus for a new member is mercer.

[OL FU]

interesting comments from adam smith yesterday in the soconverstaion, the first focus for a new member is mercer.

Don't know much about Mercer except that they just started football, doesn't seem to be a great place to start.

[fc97]

Don't know much about Mercer except that they just started football, doesn't seem to be a great place to start.

i was thinking that too. but, if they're looking for a charleston replacement that would be primed for future scholarship football then it might be good. look at their historical baseball and basketball rpis form the past decade, its pretty good.

[gsu2583]

Bobby Lamb is their (Mercer's) start up coach. Someone who knows a thing or two about the SoCon. Also, look at the number of 'private' schools in the SoCon (Furman, Samford, Wofford, El Cid - sorta.) Mercer fits that mold just fine.

Depending on when GSU/Appy move up, I think they would be able to do just fine in the SoCon. Macon is a bigger 'market' than Statesboro anyway, closer to Atlanta, better for recruiting and all that I think.

[Apphole]

A small private school getting serious sonsideration by the SmallCon!? Why, that's so weird. So unlike the modern SmallCon.

I can't believe some of these Elon/Furman/Wofford still deny the trend. We have got to get off of this sinking ship. GaSo and App to the SBC ASAP.

[appfan2008]

A small private school getting serious sonsideration by the SmallCon!? Why, that's so weird. So unlike the modern SmallCon.

I can't believe some of these Elon/Furman/Wofford still deny the trend. We have got to get off of this sinking ship. GaSo and App to the SBC ASAP.

time to move up!!!

[fc97]

A small private school getting serious sonsideration by the SmallCon!? Why, that's so weird. So unlike the modern SmallCon.

I can't believe some of these Elon/Furman/Wofford still deny the trend. We have got to get off of this sinking ship. GaSo and App to the SBC ASAP.

sure there is a trend, started by the majority public schools and voted on, without dissent by the majority public school presidents. Since 1991, since the socon expansion started, the conference has taken 4 private schools to 3 public schools. it's a coup, there's a trend, the public schools are a persecuted majority!!! help help you're being repressed!!!!

that's the thing, you guys want to believe the hype if you want, but your presidents took the conference this direction. the conference does not act without the will of the presidents. and to deny this is to deny the truth. if this is a direction that the public schools didn't want to go, then the public schools have had the majority since the 70s and could have prevented it, but they didn't.

you'll go and move up when someone wants you. until then, you're stuck here and no amount of whining as a fan will change it.

[gsu2583]

you'll go and move up when someone wants you. until then, you're stuck here and no amount of whining as a fan will change it.

When we do, I'll send a SunBelt rep to Elon and collect my CDs and that CBGBs T-shirt I left with you. I'm also changing my number, so don't embarrass yourself by trying to call or text.

It's over.

[Apphole]

sure there is a trend, started by the majority public schools and voted on, without dissent by the majority public school presidents. Since 1991, since the socon expansion started, the conference has taken 4 private schools to 3 public schools. it's a coup, there's a trend, the public schools are a persecuted majority!!! help help you're being repressed!!!!

that's the thing, you guys want to believe the hype if you want, but your presidents took the conference this direction. the conference does not act without the will of the presidents. and to deny this is to deny the truth. if this is a direction that the public schools didn't want to go, then the public schools have had the majority since the 70s and could have prevented it, but they didn't.

you'll go and move up when someone wants you. until then, you're stuck here and no amount of whining as a fan will change it.

We voted against Elon. No ****ing clue why we didn't dissent against Samford. Regardless of how they got here and who voted them in (or rather who didn't fight tooth and nail to keep them out), there is indeed a distinct trend of adding no-name private uni's by your own admission. This sucks for App and GaSo fans. As if there weren't enough piss poor gameday atmospheres in the conference already. All will be well and fine when we go FBS and leave all the wine and cheesers to fade into absolute obscurity, but until then we are the black sheep of the conference and we're gonna complain. If you don't like to read it, you can remove your eyes from the computer screen.

[fc97]

We voted against Elon. No ****ing clue why we didn't dissent against Samford. Regardless of how they got here and who voted them in (or rather who didn't fight tooth and nail to keep them out), there is indeed a distinct trend of adding no-name private uni's by your own admission. This sucks for App and GaSo fans. As if there weren't enough piss poor gameday atmospheres in the conference already. All will be well and fine when we go FBS and leave all the wine and cheesers to fade into absolute obscurity, but until then we are the black sheep of the conference and we're gonna complain. If you don't like to read it, you can remove your eyes from the computer screen.

no, app abstained from the vote, you didnt vote against. sorry, its just not the same

[fc97]

you guys simply work so hard to whine, complain and insult in any and every way possible. you know what it reminds me of? carolina fans.

[Apphole]

no, app abstained from the vote, you didnt vote against. sorry, its just not the same

You're missing the point....again. The reality is, there is in fact a trend. Even if our administration would solely responsible for it, it would make no difference to me: the common fan. The SmallCon sucks and we want out.

[Apphole]

you guys simply work so hard to whine, complain and insult in any and every way possible. you know what it reminds me of? carolina fans.

That is the first time on the board that you have actually offended me. You know what we differently than UNC? We win and we scream until our voices give out on fall Saturdays.

[Saint3333]

FC are you excited about the idea of Mercer?

I could care less whether a school is public or private, I want a program that adds to the SoCon. CCU is the obvious choice, I know their academics aren't the greatest.

[asumike83]

FC are you excited about the idea of Mercer?

I could care less whether a school is public or private, I want a program that adds to the SoCon. CCU is the obvious choice, I know their academics aren't the greatest.

Nail on the head. I could care less about the conference politics, I just want a valuable addition. I don't think Mercer is ready to compete in the SoCon. Coastal is a no-brainer in my opinion. Basketball would be able to compete immediately, football would be in the mix shortly, baseball would be one of the premier programs in the conference from day one.

[OL FU]

IF Mercer is the choice then I would say that the SoCon has determined that GSU and ASU are leaving and that we will become the small private conference. Not my choice, but that may be the direction.

Question, CCU has academic and from what I understand possible violation issues in basketball. I think those are the factors that would cause the Furman's of the world issues. (and should cause everyone issues)

Didn't MErcer just admit to false reporting to the college rating groups in order to increase their ratings. Do I have the correct school. IF I do, what the hell are we looking at them for.

[GlassOnion]

Nail on the head. I could care less about the conference politics, I just want a valuable addition. I don't think Mercer is ready to compete in the SoCon. Coastal is a no-brainer in my opinion. Basketball would be able to compete immediately, football would be in the mix shortly, baseball would be one of the premier programs in the conference from day one.

If we get stuck here awhile, politics could doom us. The public schools and private schools have different objectives and goals. Besides becoming competative in the Socon, the private schools have no interest, nor should they, in growth in athletics. Furman nor Wofford will ever average 20,000 a game. Giving them majority vote effectively hands over the steering wheel of a car that we're still seatbelted into, allows them to choose the destination, and lets them control the radio too.

[T-Dog]

Samford has actually done well both academically and athletically in the SoCon since joining. There's a reason the vote to add them was unanimous. However their biggest issue is fan support and they got a lot of obstacles to overcome.

[fc97]

IF Mercer is the choice then I would say that the SoCon has determined that GSU and ASU are leaving and that we will become the small private conference. Not my choice, but that may be the direction.

Question, CCU has academic and from what I understand possible violation issues in basketball. I think those are the factors that would cause the Furman's of the world issues. (and should cause everyone issues)

Didn't MErcer just admit to false reporting to the college rating groups in order to increase their ratings. Do I have the correct school. IF I do, what the hell are we looking at them for.

seems that was emory according to google news search.

i dont care about mercer either way, but their basketball(s) rpi and baseball rpi are hard to argue with. mercer expands the footprint, right, which is something certain app fans complain about. coastal wouldn't do that. but coastal adds things in other areas. losing charleston and adding another sc school may not be terrible. who would the apps rather have sc state or coastal?

[fc97]

If we get stuck here awhile, politics could doom us. The public schools and private schools have different objectives and goals. Besides becoming competative in the Socon, the private schools have no interest, nor should they, in growth in athletics. Furman nor Wofford will ever average 20,000 a game. Giving them majority vote effectively hands over the steering wheel of a car that we're still seatbelted into, allows them to choose the destination, and lets them control the radio too.

and i think that is honestly why elon and the caa were talking. furman, wofford, the citadel and even davidson are not growing. they are comfortable and staying put where they are. elon, love em or hate em, is actually a growing school. the goal might be similar to them, but different at the same time.

the problem is, there's no one to really add. coastal and sc state would be great. but, what does 5 sc schools really do for the conference? jax state and liberty would be great, but why would everyone else vote to add members that you know how no long term staying ability. it could screw they rest of the members easily doing that. that leaves places like kennesaw, n alabama, eastern ovc schools, good asun schools.

[gsu2583]

Of course Mercer isn't ready for the SoCon, they don't start football till next year. They are starting off in Pioneer I think. I just mean in 2,3,4, or more years when Appy and GSU jump ship, they would be ready, especially if Lamb is still there. I think he will get that program off the ground very well...

Plus, it's hard for me to imagine the SoCon without a GA school in some way.

[fc97]

That is the first time on the board that you have actually offended me. You know what we differently than UNC? We win and we scream until our voices give out on fall Saturdays.

for 11 or slightly more a year.

and unc has fans all over the world that yell and scream for months for basketball, nothing can go wrong with them, they belittle everyone else to make themselves look better, mock everyone else, and have fans playing the apphole part too, and nothing is ever their fault and their always the victims too

[fc97]

rumor has it that app/gsu annouce leaving together for sun belt by christmas.

[gsu2583]

rumor has it that app/gsu annouce leaving together for sun belt by christmas.

From who/where/when?

[OL FU]

seems that was emory according to google news search.

i dont care about mercer either way, but their basketball(s) rpi and baseball rpi are hard to argue with. mercer expands the footprint, right, which is something certain app fans complain about. coastal wouldn't do that. but coastal adds things in other areas. losing charleston and adding another sc school may not be terrible. who would the apps rather have sc state or coastal?



In that case, I am sorry to have mentioned it:-)

Emory shouldn't need that kind of stuff.

[Gringer1]

From who/where/when?

Probably a 2nd tier blog. People have fallen for them over and over again in the past year of conference shuffling. All it takes is 1 guy on twitter to say "I think App State and Georgia Southern would fit in with the Sun Belt schools," and people start posting "they just said we're doing to the FBS!"

[asumike83]

rumor has it that app/gsu annouce leaving together for sun belt by christmas.

If we were to make the move alongside Georgia Southern, I would be very supportive. However, I will believe it when I see the presser.

[fc97]

Probably a 2nd tier blog. People have fallen for them over and over again in the past year of conference shuffling. All it takes is 1 guy on twitter to say "I think App State and Georgia Southern would fit in with the Sun Belt schools," and people start posting "they just said we're doing to the FBS!"

probably, i dont remember at this point honestly. seems like a sports writer tweeted it. but its more timing, cusa and sun belt both have meetings in october, charleston votes in october and its well documented in the media that the caa and moveups are supposed to be solidified by christmas.

[Apphole]

If we were to make the move alongside Georgia Southern, I would be very supportive. However, I will believe it when I see the presser.

I won't believe it till I see it painted on the field. I STILL have blue balls from this past offseason.

[Sandlapper Spike]

i was thinking that too. but, if they're looking for a charleston replacement that would be primed for future scholarship football then it might be good. look at their historical baseball and basketball rpis form the past decade, its pretty good.

Mercer has stood out for a while as the most obvious candidate to replace any leaving non-football school (like the CofC), especially from the perspective of the smaller SoCon schools. Good academics, market is right, solid (if not great) hoops and baseball, and maybe scholly football down the road.

[OL FU]

Mercer has stood out for a while as the most obvious candidate to replace any leaving non-football school (like the CofC), especially from the perspective of the smaller SoCon schools. Good academics, market is right, solid (if not great) hoops and baseball, and maybe scholly football down the road.

That's true I didn't think about the non-football aspect of this, but this is a football message board so please forgive me

[T-Dog]

I won't believe it till I see it painted on the field. I STILL have blue balls from this past two offseasons.

Fixed for my view.

[walliver]

In that case, I am sorry to have mentioned it:-)

Emory shouldn't need that kind of stuff.

Thay don't have a football team, and everything else is D3.

They need something to brag about:D

[superman7515]

Cue the knock knock jokes...

[walliver]

I don't find this rumor particularly promising.
1) GSU is not ready. Although ASU has been quietly preparing for a move for some time, GSU has not. A Christmas announcement for the 2013 season would be quite a rush for GSU. Maybe the Eagles could be ready by 2014, but even that would be sub-optimal.
2) I am not convinced that the SBC will add any new members this year. GSU has no other viable options, and would likely still be available at a later time. ASU dreams of C-USA, but C-USA doesn't really care about the quality of football teams (in fact, it is not even required to win a single game in the history of your program). ASU is well out of the MAC footprint. ASU would likely still be available for the next several years.
3) I don't see how CofC going to the CAA affects ASU, GSU or the SBC in any way.

If ASU and GSU do announce that they are leaving, I hope it is for the 2014 season. I would hate to see Lincoln, Union, and Georgetown (KY) on next years schedule