Boston University joins Patriot League

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's true.

http://www.patriotleague.org/genrel/061512aab.html

Thoughts?

[danefan]

Wow. Unexpected. But a good fit.

[MplsBison]

"You DON'T need to study!!! ....... you go to BU...."

http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/The-Social-Network.jpg

[MplsBison]

I guess it seems like a good fit. They should get football though.

QUESTION: will they stay in Hockey East or move to ECAC? And will the hockey team be subjected to the AI?

[whitey]

Interesting. That rules Boston University out for the CAA.

[DFW HOYA]

Another American U, or will someone dust off the cobwebs at Nickerson Field?

I suspect it's the former, so not an add as it relates to FB.

[whitey]

Another American U, or will someone dust off the cobwebs at Nickerson Field?

I suspect it's the former, so not an add as it relates to FB.

I suspect it's the former too.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What does this mean for America East in general? This paired with any move by Stony Brook means that the entire league could be in deep, deep trouble. They'll only have 8 teams. And in UMBC leaves, they're realy up a creek.

I never thought I'd say this, but NJIT might be their only chance at survival.

[MplsBison]

Interesting. That rules Boston University out for the CAA.

They weren't on the table for the CAA. Neither is Stony Brook - don't you guys listen?

[dgreco]

Surprise move.

[MplsBison]

What does this mean for America East in general? This paired with any move by Stony Brook means that the entire league could be in deep, deep trouble. They'll only have 8 teams. And in UMBC leaves, they're realy up a creek.

I never thought I'd say this, but NJIT might be their only chance at survival.

Goes to show for any DI move up stuck in independent: bide your time and slowly build up your facilities and brand, eventually some conference will come calling.

[whitey]

The conspiracy theorist in me is wondering if this could be a possible preemptive move to get out of the America East due to mass defections of other members (looking at you Maine, New Hampshire, Stony Brook, Albany and maybe Vermont) to the CAA for all sports?

Okay, I'll take my tin foil hat off now.

[aceinthehole]

Holy $h*t! Out of left field.

Congrats to the PL, that was unexpected but very good pick up. Doesn't help football, but good expansion.

Expect Quinnipiac to the America East to be announced shortly.

[MplsBison]

The conspiracy theorist in me is wondering if this could be a possible preemptive move to get out of the America East due to mass defections of other members (looking at you Maine, New Hampshire, Stony Brook, Albany and maybe Vermont) to the CAA for all sports?

Nah.

That would just be a merge of the AE and the CAA in bball. The new conference would lose the AE's auto-bid have many more mouths to feed, etc.

Those kinda moves don't get signed off on by presidents.

[aceinthehole]

What does this mean for America East in general? This paired with any move by Stony Brook means that the entire league could be in deep, deep trouble. They'll only have 8 teams. And in UMBC leaves, they're realy up a creek.

I never thought I'd say this, but NJIT might be their only chance at survival.

I have it on good authority from an AE source that Quinnipiac (NEC) ---> America East

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Holy $h*t! Out of left field.

Congrats to the PL, that was unexpected but very good pick up. Doesn't help football, but good expansion.

Expect Quinnipiac to the America East to be announced shortly.

OK, with Quinnipiac and NJIT joining, that "stabilizes" the AE if Stony Brook leaves. So, maybe not the death knell that I thought.

EDIT: I don't know if NJIT is joining or not. But they are out there in a pinch if the AE needs them.

[LUHawker]

Wow. Didn't expect this either. I don't love it, but I don't hate it either. Does this make any of the HC folks happy? My guess is a decidedly uncertain, maybe.

Isn't BU something like 20k students?

[whitey]

Nah.

That would just be a merge of the AE and the CAA in bball. The new conference would lose the AE's auto-bid have many more mouths to feed, etc.

Those kinda moves don't get signed off on by presidents.

Yeah, that's why I quickly took off my tin foil hat.

[DFW HOYA]

Ok, so what's the "get" for the PL? Certainly not the 981 average attendance in men's basketball, and it dwarfs the enrollment of Colgate, Laf, Bucknell, and HC combined.

[whitey]

Ok, so what's the "get" for the PL? Certainly not the 981 average attendance in men's basketball.

Perennial top 150 Men's Basketball RPI?

[dbackjon]

OUt of the blue move

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Ok, so what's the "get" for the PL? Certainly not the 981 average attendance in men's basketball, and it dwarfs the enrollment of Colgate, Laf, Bucknell, and HC combined. BU is not your bucolic Pennsylvania liberal arts school. Who's next, NYU?

The "get" is that it's an all-sports member, the first all-sports member to join since Fordham (though it doesn't have football).

[aceinthehole]

OK, with Quinnipiac and NJIT joining, that "stabilizes" the AE if Stony Brook leaves. So, maybe not the death knell that I thought.

EDIT: I don't know if NJIT is joining or not. But they are out there in a pinch if the AE needs them.

I don't know, but my AE source, indicated the league had no interest in NJIT.

But I don't know if the BU situation was known ton this person at the time (my source indicated they thought SBU was going to stay, so we will see).

[TheRevSFA]

The Terriers are the new terror of the PL?

[danefan]

One less non-football school to vote against AEast football.......

[Lehigh Football Nation]

One less non-football school to vote against AEast football.......

This thought keeps playing in my mind, I have to admit. Though Quinnipiac joining would keep the same balance in play.

[danefan]

This thought keeps playing in my mind, I have to admit. Though Quinnipiac joining would keep the same balance in play.

True. I'd rather they add Central Ct. than QU.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't know, but my AE source, indicated the league had no interest in NJIT.

But I don't know if the BU situation was known ton this person at the time (my source indicated they thought SBU was going to stay, so we will see).

America East just got real interesting, real fast.

NJIT certainly would be an emergency move only. If SBU stays, there is zero chance for NJIT to join up. But if SBU goes, the AE might cease to exist as a conference, in which case NJIT looks better than no conference at all.

[DFW HOYA]

NJIT certainly would be an emergency move only. If SBU stays, there is zero chance for NJIT to join up. But if SBU goes, the AE might cease to exist as a conference, in which case NJIT looks better than no conference at all.

Good point, but it puts pressure on the Vermonts and Binghamtons of the world, who aren't necessarily guaranteed a soft landing if they don't stand together.

Meanwhile, the AE was only told yesterday. It does not sound pleased.

http://www.americaeast.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=14000&ATCLID=205438987

[MplsBison]

Wow. Didn't expect this either. I don't love it, but I don't hate it either. Does this make any of the HC folks happy? My guess is a decidedly uncertain, maybe.

Isn't BU something like 20k students?

But that's ok because they reject something like 8 million applicants a year.

[henfan]

Ouch for the AEC. The auto bids could be in jeopardy for a few sports if Stony leaves shortly.

[MplsBison]

Ouch for the AEC. The auto bids could be in jeopardy for a few sports if Stony leaves shortly.

Not so fast.

1) CAA decides to become a bball centric league, invites C of C and Davidson only
2) CAA sloughs off the Yankee football conference admin duties to the AE
3) the new AE football conference offers membership to Stony Brook and Albany (on condition of 90% of 63 scholarships by ___ year) and membership for Bing, Hartford, Vermont and Baltimore County is on the table if they want to explore new programs


Suck on that, Delaware. Don't you look stupid now? You can move on to the FBS or slink on back to the AE for football.

[Pard4Life]

Wow. Didn't expect this either. I don't love it, but I don't hate it either. Does this make any of the HC folks happy? My guess is a decidedly uncertain, maybe.

Isn't BU something like 20k students?

It's not the Big East, so Holy Cross isn't happy.

Interesting move by the PL. It kind of blows a hole in what we've been thinking around here... BU is a large, I mean huge research university, but they do retain some degree of liberal arts program. They are always hitting up LC with their study abroad programs.

I like it. Good school, good brand, though their teams will likely duke it out with BU for PL dominance.

The PL basketball season just lost it's bye week!

I'd like to see Vermont in the PL, and you have to seriously question it given their rivalry with BU and proximity to HC.

The future of PL football may very well rest with associate members.

[MplsBison]

I don't think any of the Boston schools save for MIT and Harvard spend that much on research.

[TheRevSFA]

I don't think any of the Boston schools save for MIT and Harvard spend that much on research.

Yeah 553 million dollars in 2009-2010 is nothing

MIT was 718.2 Million in that same time frame.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not so fast.

1) CAA decides to become a bball centric league, invites C of C and Davidson only
2) CAA sloughs off the Yankee football conference admin duties to the AE
3) the new AE football conference offers membership to Stony Brook and Albany (on condition of 90% of 63 scholarships by ___ year) and membership for Bing, Hartford, Vermont and Baltimore County is on the table if they want to explore new programs


Suck on that, Delaware. Don't you look stupid now? You can move on to the FBS or slink on back to the AE for football.

Wow, a new football league anchored by SUNY-Binghamton football? Where does Delaware sign up?

[henfan]

CAA sloughs off the Yankee football conference admin duties to the AE.

Speaking of stupid ideas....

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the NBCSports deal would prohibit that from ever happening. The AEC has very little leverage in conference realignment. They now have no presence in Boston and may soon have none in metro NYC.

[aceinthehole]

Speaking of stupid ideas....

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the NBCSports deal would prohibit that from ever happening. The AEC has very little leverage in conference realignment. They now have no presence in Boston and may soon have none in metro NYC.

Not so fast ... Wagner, LIU-Brooklyn, and SFNY are available ;)

[TheRevSFA]

Wow, a new football league anchored by SUNY-Binghamton football? Where does Delaware sign up?

Once again proves that he talks out of his ***..

[RichH2]

Surprised and pleased. Some evident conclsions
Expansion was indeed a major topic at PL meeting. Decided on expansion rather than stats quo or contraction. PL now more likely to accept a football only member rather than limiting search to full members only.
For Bball guys fixating now on OOC schedules, 2 less OOC games to worry about.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Surprised and pleased. Some evident conclsions
Expansion was indeed a major topic at PL meeting. Decided on expansion rather than stats quo or contraction. PL now more likely to accept a football only member rather than limiting search to full members only.
For Bball guys fixating now on OOC schedules, 2 less OOC games to worry about.

I don't agree, because as anyone in the Big Sky will tell you scheduling nine for basketball is extremely tough.

What I do think is that there's either one more all-sports member coming (including FB) or one non-FB member and one FB only member coming.

I do think, however, if they get to 10 members that the PL folks will be unbelievably pleased.

[Dane96]

This thought keeps playing in my mind, I have to admit. Though Quinnipiac joining would keep the same balance in play.

I sort of a politely disagree on this. If UNH and Maine are on board with AE football...and trust me, we know without these two giving the ok the thought of a league is DOA...then all four schools (UA, SBU, UNH, and UM) would probably say OK to Q-Pac if they agreed to vote for football.

The Q would perform nasty sexual acts at this point to get into the AE.

[RichH2]

I don't agree, because as anyone in the Big Sky will tell you scheduling nine for basketball is extremely tough.

What I do think is that there's either one more all-sports member coming (including FB) or one non-FB member and one FB only member coming.

I do think, however, if they get to 10 members that the PL folks will be unbelievably pleased.


Agree, as I said over on LU board ,I think #10 already in the works. My point is that 10 does not need to be a football school also. A football only member becomes possible if not even more likely

[MplsBison]

Yeah 553 million dollars in 2009-2010 is nothing

MIT was 718.2 Million in that same time frame.

Well first of all, I do stand corrected. BU definitely spent a lot more on research than I thought in FY2009, ~ $281 million.

http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf11313/pdf/tab31.pdf ranking #72 in the nation.


But no where near the 553 number you claim. What on earth are you talking about?

[NHwildEcat]

I guess it seems like a good fit. They should get football though.

QUESTION: will they stay in Hockey East or move to ECAC? And will the hockey team be subjected to the AI?

They will go no where in hockey...HE is the best conference in the nation and they are one of the top teams. With the addition of Notre Dame in the conference there is absolutely no reason to move!

[MplsBison]

Speaking of stupid ideas....

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the NBCSports deal would prohibit that from ever happening. The AEC has very little leverage in conference realignment. They now have no presence in Boston and may soon have none in metro NYC.

The deal was for basketball.

Football is a vestigial appendage as far as NBC Sports is concerned. In fact, the football games might be in spite of the desires of the network and were added in the negotiations for bball games. Of course that was when the network thought it was going to have good bball teams to put on the air, like VCU and ODU.

[TheRevSFA]

Well first of all, I do stand corrected. BU definitely spent a lot more on research than I thought in FY2009, ~ $281 million.

http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf11313/pdf/tab31.pdf ranking #72 in the nation.


But no where near the 553 number you claim. What on earth are you talking about?

http://www.bu.edu/president/letters-writings/letters/2010/10-4/

[MplsBison]

They will go no where in hockey...HE is the best conference in the nation and they are one of the top teams. With the addition of Notre Dame in the conference there is absolutely no reason to move!

Obviously ECAC would be a step down in competition and therefore that wouldn't be the reason for the move. And by the way, you know as well as your grandmother knows that HE is second in the nation at best, now third with the split.

The only reason I could fathom is that they'd want to be with Colgate and the Ivy schools.

[MplsBison]

http://www.bu.edu/president/letters-writings/letters/2010/10-4/

Wrong, as I thought.

Look it's this simple: the NSF numbers are based on extensive surveys filled out by the schools themselves. Why would they report $281 to the NSF and then put $553 on their website? Obviously it's inflated for the marketing effect and includes research sponsored at facilities that are only affiliated with the school, or something to that effect.

You can understand.

[ccd494]

Obviously ECAC would be a step down in competition and therefore that wouldn't be the reason for the move. And by the way, you know as well as your grandmother knows that HE is second in the nation at best, now third with the split.

The only reason I could fathom is that they'd want to be with Colgate and the Ivy schools.

Disregarding your deluded ranking of college hockey conferences, the HEA administration has for years been viewed as puppets of BU. They aren't leaving "their" league.

[MplsBison]

Disregarding your deluded ranking of college hockey conferences, the HEA administration has for years been viewed as puppets of BU. They aren't leaving "their" league.

Alright, alright. It was an honest question. I know very little about eastern college hockey conference politics.

But I do know the simple fact that the midwest dominates college hockey, always has and always will. You guys out east don't even know what cold is.

[MplsBison]

Wow, a new football league anchored by SUNY-Binghamton football? Where does Delaware sign up?

You knew exactly what I was saying, but instead posted a fake misunderstanding to derail my post.

[MplsBison]

Once again proves that he talks out of his ***..

He posted that to derail my post. Pretty obvious that I was talking about the AE taking over administration of the separate CAA football conference, as the CAA would be looking to focus on basketball.

It just makes Delaware look very stupid, for blackmailing the CAA into taking the admin duties over from the A10 - for no other reason than to satisfy their own selfish goal of having "one conference" for all sports, even though it's still technically two conferences - and now the football conference could end up being administered by the very conference that they left. Very foolish indeed.

[whitey]

It just makes Delaware look very stupid, for blackmailing the CAA into taking the admin duties over from the A10 - for no other reason than to satisfy their own selfish goal of having "one conference" for all sports, even though it's still technically two conferences - and now the football conference could end up being administered by the very conference that they left. Very foolish indeed.

There is a 0% chance the CAA gives up it's administration of the football conference. Where are you getting this from? Here's the breakdown of CAA Football members (starting next season):

- 4 CAA: Delaware, James Madison, Towson, William & Mary
- 2 America East: Maine, New Hampshire
- 1 Big East: Villanova
- 1 A-10: Richmond

Math, doesn't add up.

[TheRevSFA]

Wrong, as I thought.

Look it's this simple: the NSF numbers are based on extensive surveys filled out by the schools themselves. Why would they report $281 to the NSF and then put $553 on their website? Obviously it's inflated for the marketing effect and includes research sponsored at facilities that are only affiliated with the school, or something to that effect.

You can understand.

That's also you thinking that BU only uses NSF funding.

Do they? Or do they also used private funding as well...private grants..endowment

You can understand

[danefan]

There is a 0% chance the CAA gives up it's administration of the football conference. Where are you getting this from? Here's the breakdown of CAA Football members (starting next season):

- 4 CAA: Delaware, James Madison, Towson, William & Mary
- 2 America East: Maine, New Hampshire
- 1 Big East: Villanova
- 1 A-10: Richmond

Math, doesn't add up.

Maybe it doesn't, but does CAA Football survive if Maine and New Hampshire take their balls and go home to join Albany and Stony Brook?

The AEast has no history to suggest it has balls though so I wouldn't be worried about it happening anytime soon.

[MplsBison]

That's also you thinking that BU only uses NSF funding.

Do they? Or do they also used private funding as well...private grants..endowment

You can understand

UGH. I don't have time to hold your hand.

Look at the headings on the columns of the document. It should be clear.

[PAllen]

Not so sure how I feel about this yet. If it makes HC folks happy, I'm all for it, but it definitely seems like another American. To be honest, I'm still not a big fan of having American in the conference. But hey, it's like your brother's wife. You don't have to like her, she's a member of the family now, and as long as she's not tearing it apart, you treat her with all due respect.

[MplsBison]

There is a 0% chance the CAA gives up it's administration of the football conference. Where are you getting this from? Here's the breakdown of CAA Football members (starting next season):

- 4 CAA: Delaware, James Madison, Towson, William & Mary
- 2 America East: Maine, New Hampshire
- 1 Big East: Villanova
- 1 A-10: Richmond

Math, doesn't add up.

It's hard to add correctly when you can't read!

Go back to my post. I was clearly including Stony Brook and Albany in the conference, along with the AE giving any of their current members the option to join if they want to investigate new programs (but still needing to meet the 90% minimum scholarship requirement).

Then you throw in JMU and maybe Delaware leaving for the FBS and viola! AE majority

[alvinkayak6]

Does someone have a running count on all the members of the Patriot League? We're counting Fordham as eligible now right? Can BU start football?

[Grizalltheway]

I don't think

Please, tell us something we don't already know.

[ccd494]

Does someone have a running count on all the members of the Patriot League? We're counting Fordham as eligible now right? Can BU start football?

Hah.

BU's official stance on collegiate football, from the horse's mouth: "University of Paris, University of Oxford, University of Cambridge have gotten along remarkably well and never had football."

[Franks Tanks]

Does someone have a running count on all the members of the Patriot League? We're counting Fordham as eligible now right? Can BU start football?

All sports members

Army
Navy
Lafayette
Lehigh
Bucknell
Colgate
Holy Cross
American
Boston University

Football

Lafayette
Lehigh
Colgate
Bucknell
Holy Cross
Fordham
Georgetown

[MplsBison]

Does someone have a running count on all the members of the Patriot League? We're counting Fordham as eligible now right? Can BU start football?

Fordham (A-10) and Georgetown (Big East) are associate football members.

Army (Indy), Navy (Big East in a few years) don't play football in the PL.

American and now BU don't have football teams.

[Go...gate]

Another American U, or will someone dust off the cobwebs at Nickerson Field?

I suspect it's the former, so not an add as it relates to FB.

You never know. They may get a new President who feels differently.

In the meantime, I never had an issue with AU, so to compare them with BU is no insult.

[Sader87]

BU and HC (as different as they are institutionally) have sort of an inter-twined sports history...both schools joined the then all public Yankee Conference in the early 1970's but HC left the YC very shortly after joining.

[Go...gate]

All sports members

Army
Navy
Lafayette
Lehigh
Bucknell
Colgate
Holy Cross
American
Boston University

Football

Lafayette
Lehigh
Colgate
Bucknell
Holy Cross
Fordham
Georgetown

Women's Rowing

Massachusetts Institute of Technology

[henfan]

The deal was for basketball.

Football is a vestigial appendage as far as NBC Sports is concerned. In fact, the football games might be in spite of the desires of the network and were added in the negotiations for bball games. Of course that was when the network thought it was going to have good bball teams to put on the air, like VCU and ODU.

Of course that's completely incorrect. The CAA's deal with NBCSports was the result of negotiations for both FB AND MBB, as Tom Yeager previously indicated. The league would not have been able to execute the deal with just MBB or FB. Maybe you just know more than the conference commissioner about the negotiations.

Of course NBCSports thought they were getting VCU, ODU, et. al. but they also knew that they would be landing FB programs with sizable alum bases in the Boston, NNJ-NYC, Philly, BAL-DC-NOVA, Hampton Roads and Richmond media markets serviced by CAA FB. NBC wasn't acting out of the kindness of their hearts. If FB was merely an appendage, NBC would have relegated all FB games to the Comcast portion of the deal, as it did with WBB.

[MplsBison]

Of course that's completely incorrect. The CAA's deal with NBCSports was the result of negotiations for both FB AND MBB, as Tom Yeager previously indicated. The league would not have been able to execute the deal with just MBB or FB. Maybe you just know more than the conference commissioner about the negotiations.

Of course NBCSports thought they were getting VCU, ODU, et. al. but they also knew that they would be landing FB programs with sizable alum bases in the Boston, NNJ-NYC, Philly, BAL-DC-NOVA, Hampton Roads and Richmond media markets serviced by CAA FB. NBC wasn't acting out of the kindness of their hearts. If FB was merely an appendage, NBC would have relegated all FB games to the Comcast portion of the deal, as it did with WBB.


Yeah but no one watches CAA football on TV. And the market is basically alumni who have access to the channel in the first place.

The reason that (only) five football games are on the main network is because that's what the conference wanted. Not what the network wanted. It was a compromise.



Of course Delaware is going to make sound like football is CAA's Moses. That's what they want, more than any other CAA team. Delaware, as I'm learning more and more, basically *is* CAA football. They made it happen, single handedly because they got tired of waiting for the AE to do it.

I just think it would be great if it came back to bite them in the butt for not staying put and making it work in the AE.

[WestCoastAggie]

Good point, but it puts pressure on the Vermonts and Binghamtons of the world, who aren't necessarily guaranteed a soft landing if they don't stand together.

Meanwhile, the AE was only told yesterday. It does not sound pleased.

http://www.americaeast.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=14000&ATCLID=205438987

They could always join the MAAC or the NEC.

[Go...gate]

The "get" is that it's an all-sports member, the first all-sports member to join since Fordham (though it doesn't have football).

Very strong academics, too. I like it.

[NHwildEcat]

They could always join the MAAC or the NEC.

D2 is nice for them...

[henfan]

Yeah but no one watches CAA football on TV... Of course Delaware is going to make sound like football is CAA's Moses...
I just think it would be great if it came back to bite them in the butt for not staying put and making it work in the AE.

Obviously someone is watching CAA FB or else NBC wouldn't have agreed to put FB on their network. CAA MBB isn't likely to grab better ratings than CAA FB. Ratings for either will be marginal, comparatively speaking. The market for both is pretty much limited to alumi and fans of the conference in the Boston to Richmond area, which suits NBC just fine.

UD isn't making anything sound like anything. Tom Yeager (not UD) indicated that FB played a key role in the NBC deal. I trust the conference commish has more insight on the matter than a message board know-it-all. It's kinda weird & funny that you've got such a hard on for UD any way.

Looks like you're going to be continue to be disappointed by your dream for America East FB, unless they can manage to somehow take over the NEC.

[Ivytalk]

No football? Then it's irrelevant to me. BU fans really don't come out in any numbers for any sport but ice hockey. Very good school, but...

[MplsBison]

Obviously someone is watching CAA FB or else NBC wouldn't have agreed to put FB on their network. CAA MBB isn't likely to grab better ratings than CAA FB. Ratings for either will be marginal, comparatively speaking. The market for both is pretty much limited to alumi and fans of the conference in the Boston to Richmond area, which suits NBC just fine.

UD isn't making anything sound like anything. Tom Yeager (not UD) indicated that FB played a key role in the NBC deal. I trust the conference commish has more insight on the matter than a message board know-it-all. It's kinda weird & funny that you've got such a hard on for UD any way.

Looks like you're going to be continue to be disappointed by your dream for America East FB, unless they can manage to somehow take over the NEC.

You're free to think that. I'll say that Delaware blackmailed them again into fighting for football in be included in the TV deal (and making sure Delaware was one of the five games selected). In other words, you better do this or we'll leave for the FBS and blow your league up.

The comish may not be a UD guy but we all know who pulls the strings.

[MplsBison]

No football? Then it's irrelevant to me. BU fans really don't come out in any numbers for any sport but ice hockey. Very good school, but...

...you don't have to study.

[DSUrocks07]

And the door has opened up for lil ol' DSU ;)

[heath]

No football? Then it's irrelevant to me. BU fans really don't come out in any numbers for any sport but ice hockey. Very good school, but...

You nailed itxnodx No football,then who cares.Maybe they can let their club team move up and play in the PL.They should win a fewxthumbsupx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

And the door has opened up for lil ol' DSU ;)

xeyebrowx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/224-boston-university-becomes-patriot-league-s-ninth-all-sports-member

[DFW HOYA]

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/224-boston-university-becomes-patriot-league-s-ninth-all-sports-member

"Boston University does not sponsor a football since it noisily discontinued its program in 1997, and when I gently brought up the idea to Lynch, he said that bringing back football "unequivocally is not in our plans."

1. Is there a school these days as militantly anti-football as BU? What blackmail does John Silber still have over the place?

[BucBisonAtLarge]

There are lots of good points made in this thread. I thought that the CAA talk was a bit too 'plebeian' for the Land of John Silber, the axbearer for Terrier fb, nor did I think that they would gladly move from ruling the roost in the AE to snuggle in alongside Northeastern. Boston University is great addition to the Patriot League, and while it leaves the AE is a tough spot numerically, it gains a degree of liberty from a massive bully who never seemed to care much for the rest of the institutions in the conference. The Terriers get to retain their hallowed standing in the Hockey East. The PL leadership is looking mighty sage in this moment, and rather like a tight ship, as CBS Sports or some dude on SN or Bleacher Report did not manage to leak this result. As one who sat in Nickerson Field for at least one game, it is a pity that football isn't coming along.

The All-sports membership also gets its first dog- a Terrier.

[danefan]

"Boston University does not sponsor a football since it noisily discontinued its program in 1997, and when I gently brought up the idea to Lynch, he said that bringing back football "unequivocally is not in our plans."

1. Is there a school these days as militantly anti-football as BU? What blackmail does John Silber still have over the place?

Hofstra

[CRAZY_DANE]

Good riddance! We don't need BU and their anti-football stance

[superman7515]

And the door has opened up for lil ol' DSU ;)


xeyebrowx

Delaware State wants out of the MEAC and into a northeast based conference in the worst way. They are the most northeast HBCU and feel they're stuck in a southern conference that forces them to overlap their mission with a myriad of other HBCU's instead of marketing themselves to AA students in the northeast where there aren't HBCU options available. It also wouldn't hurt their feelings if they could somehow manage to get into the NEC so they could cut football scholarships and drop the women's equestrian team that successfully sued them under Title IX and racial discrimination.

[Pard4Life]

I really think that Fairfield will join the PL in all sports. It's also intriguing that mens lacrosse was cited as a major motivating factor for BU.

Fairfield is striving for a top program and already has achieved success. The PL would be a good home for them.

[ngineer]

Surprised and pleased. Some evident conclsions
Expansion was indeed a major topic at PL meeting. Decided on expansion rather than stats quo or contraction. PL now more likely to accept a football only member rather than limiting search to full members only.
For Bball guys fixating now on OOC schedules, 2 less OOC games to worry about.

I tend to agree that any expansion in football would be toward an associate member for football only. However, a part of me wants to think that maybe BU is 'studying' the return of the pigskin and at the PL level might be willing to give it another go. Certainly helps basketball and I think they have a decent lacrosse program, don't they?

[ngineer]

There are lots of good points made in this thread. I thought that the CAA talk was a bit too 'plebeian' for the Land of John Silber, the axbearer for Terrier fb, nor did I think that they would gladly move from ruling the roost in the AE to snuggle in alongside Northeastern. Boston University is great addition to the Patriot League, and while it leaves the AE is a tough spot numerically, it gains a degree of liberty from a massive bully who never seemed to care much for the rest of the institutions in the conference. The Terriers get to retain their hallowed standing in the Hockey East. The PL leadership is looking mighty sage in this moment, and rather like a tight ship, as CBS Sports or some dude on SN or Bleacher Report did not manage to leak this result. As one who sat in Nickerson Field for at least one game, it is a pity that football isn't coming along.

The All-sports membership also gets its first dog- a Terrier.

What are their colors? I must say, the PL schools when all hanging up there are not a very cheerful collection of hues: Brown,Maroon, Maroon,Blue, Black, Grey,...I'll give Bucknell its due for its orange....

[344Johnson]

Alright, alright. It was an honest question. I know very little about eastern college hockey conference politics.

But I do know the simple fact that the midwest dominates college hockey, always has and always will. You guys out east don't even know what cold is.

Who cares if eastern schools know what cold is. Last time I checked all hockey arenas are indoors? Boston College and Boston U both consistently churn out exceptional hockey teams. I don't know what planet you live in, but the good eastern schools have no problem with the midwestern schools. I don't even know if UND(pride of the WCHA) has beaten Boston College in a relevant game this century. Claim all you want that "MIDWEST HOCKEY IS BETTER" but that doesn't change the fact that they know how to play puck out east, and their best team has consistently handled some of the best WCHA teams.

[Sader87]

BU's colors are red and white and though they don't currently have varsity lax they are putting a lot of $$$/facilities into the lax program.

[Husky Alum]

Northeastern is very anti-football as well. Must be a "Boston Thing".

[UAalum72]

What are their colors? I must say, the PL schools when all hanging up there are not a very cheerful collection of hues: Brown,Maroon, Maroon,Blue, Black, Grey,...I'll give Bucknell its due for its orange....

[/B]


BU's colors are red and white and though they don't currently have varsity lax they are putting a lot of $$$/facilities into the lax program.

To be exact, scarlet and white. The Boston Terrier mascot's name is Rhett ("nobody loves Scarlet more than Rhett")

[mainejeff]

I don't know, but my AE source, indicated the league had no interest in NJIT.

But I don't know if the BU situation was known ton this person at the time (my source indicated they thought SBU was going to stay, so we will see).

If this is/was the case........I would think that Bryant might become member #10 (after #9 Quinnipiac) and that Monmouth could be the 3rd invite (would they accept?) if Stony Brook leaves as well. If there is a mass exodus (Maine, UNH, Albany, Stony Brook.....very unlikely) then the AE is up ***** creek.

[mainejeff]

Good point, but it puts pressure on the Vermonts and Binghamtons of the world, who aren't necessarily guaranteed a soft landing if they don't stand together.

Meanwhile, the AE was only told yesterday. It does not sound pleased.

http://www.americaeast.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=14000&ATCLID=205438987

I wouldn't be pleased either........the leave bent over backwards and took it up the butt for BU. It figures that they would handle something in this manner though.......I've never trusted that school. They royally screwed over the league in the past preventing America East football AND hockey. Screw U, BU!

[ngineer]

BU's colors are red and white and though they don't currently have varsity lax they are putting a lot of $$$/facilities into the lax program.

Good! A change of pace in terms of hue.

[ngineer]

To be exact, scarlet and white. The Boston Terrier mascot's name is Rhett ("nobody loves Scarlet more than Rhett")

So when they lose they can claim "the Butler did it"??

[mainejeff]

Alright, alright. It was an honest question. I know very little about eastern college hockey conference politics.

But I do know the simple fact that the midwest dominates college hockey, always has and always will. You guys out east don't even know what cold is.

LOL........yeah, that's why BC won the National Championship........again.

[mainejeff]

Maybe it doesn't, but does CAA Football survive if Maine and New Hampshire take their balls and go home to join Albany and Stony Brook?

The AEast has no history to suggest it has balls though so I wouldn't be worried about it happening anytime soon.

The key issue for current andy future CAA Football members is this.......how stable is the CAA Football conference?

The last few years goes like this......

NU and Hofstra - Dropped football
UMass - moves up to the MAC
URI - "downgrades" and moves to the NEC
GSU - moves up the the Sunbelt
ODU - moves up to Conference USA

JMU - chomping at the bit to get the hell out(?)
Delaware - who the F knows (or cares?)
W&M - Patriot looking better and better for all sports including football(?)
Richmond - Patriot for football only looking mighty fine at the moment (especially if W&M joins the Patriot)
Villanova - Big East FBS(?)......Patriot for football only(?)........or maybe just drop the d*mn sport(???)
Maine/UNH - How did we get ourselves into this mess.........

[mainejeff]

Obviously someone is watching CAA FB or else NBC wouldn't have agreed to put FB on their network.

Yeah.........why would a new start-up sports network grab anything it could get during the first few years of its existence? ESPN never did that...........

Poor henfan............I'll give you credit though........you ARE a hopeless romantic when it comes to Delaware football and the CAA. ;)

[mainejeff]

"Boston University does not sponsor a football since it noisily discontinued its program in 1997, and when I gently brought up the idea to Lynch, he said that bringing back football "unequivocally is not in our plans."

1. Is there a school these days as militantly anti-football as BU?

What do you expect when 70% of your student body is Eurotrash???...........

[mainejeff]

Northeastern is very anti-football as well. Must be a "Boston Thing".

So European.........

[Tim James]

I just thing BU realizes FCS is a money loser for most schools so why bother. Its not like they had great attendance when they had a team. They are a hockey and lacrosse school now. Their basketball program plays in a 2,000 seat gym and brings nothing to the table for the Patriot League. All they bring of value to the Patriot League is 'potentially' lacrosse. :)

[Sader87]

I essentially agree with Tim James....though it's a good addition overall for the PL (more of a New England "foot-print", good minor sports overall etc etc)...for most "fans/alums" of their schools, the only sports that most truly care about are football, basketball, hockey and to a lesser extent baseball and lacrosse. BU is really only bringing basketball and a nascent lax program to the PL for "major sports."

[NHwildEcat]

I just thing BU realizes FCS is a money loser for most schools so why bother. Its not like they had great attendance when they had a team. They are a hockey and lacrosse school now. Their basketball program plays in a 2,000 seat gym and brings nothing to the table for the Patriot League. All they bring of value to the Patriot League is 'potentially' lacrosse. :)

Yeah, I agree with you mostly. BU realizes that they cannot be good or competitive in every sport so they have decided to focus on a couple sports that are successful. Hockey is huge at BU (and with every school in New England) and they want to build a successful lax program. Football and bball at BU don't draw, and football costs too much so they stay away from it. I don't blame them there. UNH dropped baseball because it is hard to keep a team going in the short amount of time you can play outdoors in NH. That was their thought when they dropped the program. Yeah, it sucks that the flagship school in NH doesn't have baseball, but those are the decisions that AD's and President's have to make.

[NHwildEcat]

I essentially agree with Tim James....though it's a good addition overall for the PL (more of a New England "foot-print", good minor sports overall etc etc)...for most "fans/alums" of their schools, the only sports that most truly care about are football, basketball, hockey and to a lesser extent baseball and lacrosse. BU is really only bringing basketball and a nascent lax program to the PL for "major sports."

And if they still had football they may not be investing in their new lax program.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

"Boston University does not sponsor a football since it noisily discontinued its program in 1997, and when I gently brought up the idea to Lynch, he said that bringing back football "unequivocally is not in our plans."

1. Is there a school these days as militantly anti-football as BU? What blackmail does John Silber still have over the place?

I am getting the impression at BU that it's no longer a philosophical issue as much as it is a numbers issue.

BU sponsors something like 11 women's sports plus wrestling plus ice hockey. Without men's lax. In order to start sponsoring football, they'd either have to pull the plug on wrestling, start a new women's sport, or both. Adding a new women's sport isn't an option - because I can't think of another sport they can add to stay Title IX compliant (bowling? equestrian?). Pulling the plug on wrestling is not a great option, either.

You could say that they are victims of their previous anti-football choices, but practically, dealing with the here and now, I dont' see how they do it with Title IX the way it is enforced today.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Is anyone concerned that the Patriot League just invited an arrogant prick into the croquet match? Is there a suitable apprenticeship? Will they learn the campfire songs and bring the weenies? Will they wear white before Memorial Day?

Seriously, no school has been such a serious control freak on its conference in my recent memory. The kiss-off was just one more snot nosed move by the Boston University administration toward America East. The remaining AE schools will be fortunate to be able to set a course in the realignment tempest without a red-and-white martinet grabbing the rudder and muttering edicts.

I hope that, now in a grouping of private universities and the academies, the Terrier administration will develop their finer motor skills. This may point out one of the big differences in the public/private institution comparison-- private schools answer solely to to the BOT, alumni, students and parents. Public institutions have public budgets, legislatures and ballot measures on nicknames to navigate.

[RichH2]

Is anyone concerned that the Patriot League just invited an arrogant prick into the croquet match? Is there a suitable apprenticeship? Will they learn the campfire songs and bring the weenies? Will they wear white before Memorial Day?

Seriously, no school has been such a serious control freak on its conference in my recent memory. The kiss-off was just one more snot nosed move by the Boston University administration toward America East. The remaining AE schools will be fortunate to be able to set a course in the realignment tempest without a red-and-white martinet grabbing the rudder and muttering edicts.

I hope that, now in a grouping of private universities and the academies, the Terrier administration will develop their finer motor skills. This may point out one of the big differences in the public/private institution comparison-- private schools answer solely to to the BOT, alumni, students and parents. Public institutions have public budgets, legislatures and ballot measures on nicknames to navigate.

Apt, ia a bit overstated. BU certainly felt superior in AE they were the big dog athletically and academically. Not the case in PL. Academically somewhere around American and Fordham which is still excellent but not all that close to the top tier. Athletically they will surely be competitive. Expect them to be in the running for President's race every year bt they will not dominate PL as they did AE.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

What schools does a prospective Boston U. student apply to? I would think Northeastern, Syracuse, Drexel, American, Hofstra etc would be their "peer" institutions?

[DFW HOYA]

What schools does a prospective Boston U. student apply to? I would think Northeastern, Syracuse, Drexel, American, Hofstra etc would be their "peer" institutions?

Here are four: NYU, George Washington, Northeastern, and Penn--the large urban institutions of the East.

[Sader87]

I think I'd throw Syracuse in there too....granted the city itself doesn't have the cachet but I know a lot of kids who have applied to both BU and Syracuse over the years.

[carney2]

Apt, ia a bit overstated. BU certainly felt superior in AE they were the big dog athletically and academically. Not the case in PL. Academically somewhere around American and Fordham which is still excellent but not all that close to the top tier. Athletically they will surely be competitive. Expect them to be in the running for President's race every year bt they will not dominate PL as they did AE.

And, without football, I think they will find it very difficult to strut around as one of the big dogs. Like it or not, football is the dog and everything else is part of the tail. If they don't know that coming in, they should find it out fairly soon.

[UNH Fanboi]

I am eagerly awaiting a LFN column about how the Patriot League will ultimately be responsible for a transformation of the entire football landscape.

[UNH Fanboi]

Here are four: NYU, George Washington, Northeastern, and Penn--the large urban institutions of the East.

Even a second-tier Ivy like Penn is not a peer school of GWU, Northeastern, etc.

[Grizalltheway]

Even a second-tier Ivy like Penn is not a peer school of GWU, Northeastern, etc.

Edit-NM, my state school education led me to misunderstand Fanboi's post. xoopsx

[heath]

I am eagerly awaiting a LFN column about how the Patriot League will ultimately be responsible for a transformation of the entire football landscape.

give him a chance..........his expertise and sources will certainly lead him to a long winded column about NOTHING.Get used to it.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Parsing the Ivy League is a technical topic best undertaken over brewed beverages in zip codes beginning with zero or one. Seems kinda 'subtle' from the distance.

[MplsBison]

LOL........yeah, that's why BC won the National Championship........again.

2000 North Dakota Boston College
2001 Boston College North Dakota
2002 Minnesota Maine
2003 Minnesota New Hampshire
2004 Denver Maine
2005 Denver North Dakota
2006 Wisconsin Boston College
2007 Michigan State Boston College
2008 Boston College Notre Dame
2009 Boston University Miami University
2010 Boston College Wisconsin
2011 Minnesota–Duluth Michigan
2012 Boston College Ferris State

WCHA/CCHA won 8 of the 13 championships and had 15 of 26 of the championship game participants.

Perhaps not dominating, but clearly the advantage.



Interesting that only the Boston's seem to be capable of winning the championship. Probably have a lot of Canadians.

[Pard4Life]

What schools does a prospective Boston U. student apply to? I would think Northeastern, Syracuse, Drexel, American, Hofstra etc would be their "peer" institutions?

I applied to BU... it's in the same realm as Bucknell and Lehigh, just larger and in a city.

I don't think NE, Syracuse, AU, Drexel, Hofstra are in BU's peer group. I'd bet:

GWU, NYU, Georgetown, BC, Fordham, reach being Penn.

[Pard4Life]

And, without football, I think they will find it very difficult to strut around as one of the big dogs. Like it or not, football is the dog and everything else is part of the tail. If they don't know that coming in, they should find it out fairly soon.

Lacrosse is gaining heft, and men's basketball is very important for bringing in revenues for participating in the tournament.

Some posters here are saying this addition will give BU incentive or require them to add football to give them prominence in the league. It is a misguided view. Like BU's AD said in his comments, the PL has a rich football history, but the future of the PL is lacrosse. He could not be more accurate. Lacrosse will drive the image of this league forward. Men's basketball will continue to enhance it with tournament victories. Football, though very important in our eyes and on this board here, is third in relevance.

[DFW HOYA]

I applied to BU... it's in the same realm as Bucknell and Lehigh, just larger and in a city.
I don't think NE, Syracuse, AU, Drexel, Hofstra are in BU's peer group. I'd bet: GWU, NYU, Georgetown, BC, Fordham, reach being Penn.

BU is not in Georgetown's peer group. Peer institutions are defined where a significant group of competitive applicants cross-apply between the schools (e.g, SMU and Duke are similar schools in academic programming but there are few applicants applying to both nationally.) Georgetown's cross-apps are places like Duke, Penn, and Virginia. Very few cross apps with, for example, Cornell, because Georgetown doesn't have an engineering program. Probably more applicants nationally choosing between BC and Georgetown than BU.

[Engineer86]

I applied to BU... it's in the same realm as Bucknell and Lehigh, just larger and in a city.

I don't think NE, Syracuse, AU, Drexel, Hofstra are in BU's peer group. I'd bet:

GWU, NYU, Georgetown, BC, Fordham, reach being Penn.

To bad you had to settle for your safety school. ;)

[frozennorth]

2000 North Dakota Boston College
2001 Boston College North Dakota
2002 Minnesota Maine
2003 Minnesota New Hampshire
2004 Denver Maine
2005 Denver North Dakota
2006 Wisconsin Boston College
2007 Michigan State Boston College
2008 Boston College Notre Dame
2009 Boston University Miami University
2010 Boston College Wisconsin
2011 Minnesota–Duluth Michigan
2012 Boston College Ferris State

WCHA/CCHA won 8 of the 13 championships and had 15 of 26 of the championship game participants.

Perhaps not dominating, but clearly the advantage.



Interesting that only the Boston's seem to be capable of winning the championship. Probably have a lot of Canadians.

so hockey east teams have won four of the last five titles, and you use this as evidence that hockey east sucks?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

so hockey east teams have won four of the last five titles, and you use this as evidence that hockey east sucks?

Not only that - four of the last five come from BU's hockey conference. And they made the finals five out of the last six years, too.

[heath]

Lacrosse is gaining heft, and men's basketball is very important for bringing in revenues for participating in the tournament.

Some posters here are saying this addition will give BU incentive or require them to add football to give them prominence in the league. It is a misguided view. Like BU's AD said in his comments, the PL has a rich football history, but the future of the PL is lacrosse. He could not be more accurate. Lacrosse will drive the image of this league forward. Men's basketball will continue to enhance it with tournament victories. Football, though very important in our eyes and on this board here, is third in relevance.

you are a fool for this statement. ACC Lax has been dominant for years(decades),but only 4 schools compete.Football ticket sales and revenue support, MAKE the athletic budget.Lax is one of the fastest growing sports,but will never over take football as the bread winner. Just because the PL got 2 of the 16 teams this year in NCAA's,get a clue. If the PL goes the Lax route they will suffer and wonder why the went football scholly.

[Pard4Life]

you are a fool for this statement. ACC Lax has been dominant for years(decades),but only 4 schools compete.Football ticket sales and revenue support, MAKE the athletic budget.Lax is one of the fastest growing sports,but will never over take football as the bread winner. Just because the PL got 2 of the 16 teams this year in NCAA's,get a clue. If the PL goes the Lax route they will suffer and wonder why the went football scholly.

Out crawls the turd trash from South Mountain... no need to be terse because you have an itch you can't scratch...

I am saying that football is not the only tail that wags the dog in the PL... men's basketball is important because if we have more quality teams qualify for the tournament and play in series like ESPN bracket busters, the league can share more revenue and visibility. BU is an important piece.

Football ticket sales and revenue make the athletic budget at Lehigh?? I am talking in a Patriot League context here... NOT the ACC. Patriot League football does almost next to nothing for enhancing league visibility and individual profiles of the member schools, while lacrosse has the potential to make a name for the PL schools. Football, with schollies, can now help all schools because we can now play a money game. However, our men's lax teams play at the highest level of a rapidly growing and visible sport.

At this level, the athletics are a money loser and is for almost everyone not named Texas, Ohio State or Penn State. Athletics are the front door of the university. Men's basketball already is the hook, and lacrosse is the next frontier.

You obviously need to look at the larger picture. It's all about VISIBILITY.

[MplsBison]

so hockey east teams have won four of the last five titles, and you use this as evidence that hockey east sucks?

And WCHA won 5 of 6 from 2000 to 2005. It comes in streaks.

HE hockey doesn't suck, I didn't say that.

[MplsBison]

Not only that - four of the last five come from BU's hockey conference. And they made the finals five out of the last six years, too.

Yes, BU and BC have had good programs the past few years. It comes in streaks.

[Pard4Life]

BU is not in Georgetown's peer group. Peer institutions are defined where a significant group of competitive applicants cross-apply between the schools (e.g, SMU and Duke are similar schools in academic programming but there are few applicants applying to both nationally.) Georgetown's cross-apps are places like Duke, Penn, and Virginia. Very few cross apps with, for example, Cornell, because Georgetown doesn't have an engineering program. Probably more applicants nationally choosing between BC and Georgetown than BU.

I know what a peer group is... next time I am in a bookstore, I'll check the Princeton Review Guide... they list the cross-applicants. Meanwhile, Unigo lists "Unigo members who like BU also like:" NYU, BC, Northeastern, Brown, Northwestern.

[Sader87]

PL lax is strong and it is a growing sport, that being said I don't think lacrosse (yet...probably not for another generation or so) is the type of sport that really rallies its alumni/local fans to attend games, come back to alma mater etc. Spring season collegiete sports are pretty much an "after-thought" for most fans.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I have to admit it's been about a day and a half since the surprise announcement and my thoughts have shifted a little. Not on the PL side, where the first new member in 12 years still seems like exactly the type of candidate that the PL wants, but on the BU side.

Why leave America East? And why now?

By all accounts, the Terriers had the run of their old home. They wanted to be in a conference with no football, be able to do what they pleased with hockey, and basically be in charge of the direction of all the other aspects the conference. And the AE seems like they pretty much stayed on the course that BU set.

They gave all that up. Why?

Because, like they said, it's all about men's lacrosse? Don't bet on it. PL lacrosse is very good, and may someday soon have an NCAA championship - but America East, after all, has a lacrosse conference already, and BU is still a start-up.

Because of basketball? The PL is still a one-bid conference to the NCAA's, and BU's entrance doesn't change that.

Because the AE might break up? That would mean that the CAA would be certainly be taking Stony Brook, and Albany, Maine and New Hampshire would have to be leaving - for where? The CAA? The NEC? Makes no sense. The CAA needs members, but they're not expanding with teams that add Olympic sport travel costs to Orono, Maine, nor are they risking some sort of Southern defection.

Becuase the AE might take over CAA football, or start their own football conference? Like the other scenario, makes no sense - even if they suddenly shifted course and were interested in football, the PL not only sponsors football, but will sponsor 60 scholarship football. Why would BU leave a conference over football sponsorship to go to another conference with football sponsorship? Further shooting this down is the thought that QU could step right in for BU, not exactly a school that wants football.

Because BU just liked the PL's all-sports philosophy better? Possible. But then why did it develop so fast, over the span of a couple of months, with essentially a surprise announcement?

If you had told me in February that the next domino of allowing football scholarships would be the welcoming of BU to the Patriot League, I'd have asked that you have your head examined. Indeed, BU would literally be one of the last schools I would have thought would want to sign up. But here they are, and it's safe to say that the football scholarship decision didn't have any bearing on their choice. So: why would they do it?

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Patriot League men's lacrosse was solidly the second conference in Division I, behind the ACC, but also with multiple wins over ACC teams. Look at non-conference wins-- and the PL teams maybe with the exception of a bad year at Lafayette and a rebuilding year at HC, kicked tail with challenging schedules. Lax at the HS level is expanding rapidly nationally in communities where these schools market themselves.

[danefan]

I have to admit it's been about a day and a half since the surprise announcement and my thoughts have shifted a little. Not on the PL side, where the first new member in 12 years still seems like exactly the type of candidate that the PL wants, but on the BU side.

Why leave America East? And why now?

By all accounts, the Terriers had the run of their old home. They wanted to be in a conference with no football, be able to do what they pleased with hockey, and basically be in charge of the direction of all the other aspects the conference. And the AE seems like they pretty much stayed on the course that BU set.

They gave all that up. Why?

Because, like they said, it's all about men's lacrosse? Don't bet on it. PL lacrosse is very good, and may someday soon have an NCAA championship - but America East, after all, has a lacrosse conference already, and BU is still a start-up.

Because of basketball? The PL is still a one-bid conference to the NCAA's, and BU's entrance doesn't change that.

Because the AE might break up? That would mean that the CAA would be certainly be taking Stony Brook, and Albany, Maine and New Hampshire would have to be leaving - for where? The CAA? The NEC? Makes no sense. The CAA needs members, but they're not expanding with teams that add Olympic sport travel costs to Orono, Maine, nor are they risking some sort of Southern defection.

Becuase the AE might take over CAA football, or start their own football conference? Like the other scenario, makes no sense - even if they suddenly shifted course and were interested in football, the PL not only sponsors football, but will sponsor 60 scholarship football. Why would BU leave a conference over football sponsorship to go to another conference with football sponsorship? Further shooting this down is the thought that QU could step right in for BU, not exactly a school that wants football.

Because BU just liked the PL's all-sports philosophy better? Possible. But then why did it develop so fast, over the span of a couple of months, with essentially a surprise announcement?

If you had told me in February that the next domino of allowing football scholarships would be the welcoming of BU to the Patriot League, I'd have asked that you have your head examined. Indeed, BU would literally be one of the last schools I would have thought would want to sign up. But here they are, and it's safe to say that the football scholarship decision didn't have any bearing on their choice. So: why would they do it?

Stability and Academics

The PL gives BU those two things that no other conference outside the Ivy could have.

I think for once during this whole ordeal there was a decision driven by a non-athletic reason.

[Dane96]

LFN and DF are 100% right. My two-day "simmering" rant that I just posted on the AE boards to follow here shortly.

[Dane96]

I've been holding back for awhile (read: Years) on re-alignment.

I've also held back on the move for BU. I've held back on NU and the CAA's direction. And I'v held back on the AE front office.

All my opinion:

1. W/ regard to the AE, BU simply ****ed the AE. They did not know what was happening, cross-town rival NU didn't know what was happening (and don't kid yourselves, in some circles they are pissed...they wanted the PL years ago...not the CAAA). BU held out on so many things including calling Hockey East the America East, something all schools including BC agreed to, because they wanted to have the leeway to get out. If the A-Ten came calling, I'd understand but the PL. Now I am bitter and pissed off. Why? Because Hockey East-America East was a done deal, and with that brought America East. I am not kidding...it was THAT DONE OF A DEAL!!!! Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know the details of what went down...and I promise you that I do. And if our commish was pro-active, she would have made a lot more moves IN GENERAL irrespective of the BU move. I don't fully blame her...I blame the conference Presidents.

2. Love NUHF like a brother...so if he says otherwise I am going to have to put sand in his beer when we share one next (yah...my travel's are over brother for now...let's get a beer ASAP): NU CANNOT BE HAPPY WITH A SOUTHERN DIRECTION OF THE CAA. Yes, the mid-Atlantic is a recruiting area academically. Yes, some schools that remain in the CAA are very good academically. Yes, the CAA is still a better league than the AE, infinitely better as of now in hoops. But it is a one-bid league and NONE of the schools being bandied about for membership, aside from Stony Brook, is near the caliber of NU academically. I don't want to hear "Princeton Review" "Rankings" etc. Academically, Elon, Coastal, App State, et al, barring Davidson, are pooh-pooed by the academic integrity and breadth of NU's offerings. Bringing me to my next point.

3. If one more person discusses academics as a reason to move a conference I am going to KILL them. Literally, I may need character witnesses at my manslaughter trial to defend justified homicide. NONE OF THESE MOVES ARE ACADEMICALLY RELATED. NONE!!! Let me repeat that...NONE. Unless you are certain leagues, e.g. Patriot, IVY, the Little East, etc...it doesn't matter. If so, VANDY would have left the ACC, Stanford the Pac-whatever, etc. It's a joke people. Bringing me to my final point.

4. Conference re-alignment has its genesis in stability and/ or EGO to be affiliated with a "name league and/or a set of schools," and MONEY when it comes down to certain leagues with multi-bids, tv contracts and NCAA payouts. This is at EVERY level of DI (low, mid and high-major). It's about positioning yourself for the NEXT MOVE on the NEXT realignment. And much like financial market corrections...there will be a market correction on realignment in 3-5 years. The only legitimate thing I have heard about the BU move (and others) is conference stability. That said, BU created this instability in the AE twice (AE-4 and Hockey East/America East)...which is why I am bitter about this move.

In the end, even ego to be affiliated with name schools is a red-herring. I am sure everyone of us in the real world can appreciate that aside from about 50 schools...nobody cares where you went as long as you did the job, unless you are in a field where research was important. In the end, we all care about who can do the job. In fact, unless I ask I am totally turned off when someone struts (both socially and in a business setting) where they went to college. WHO CARES?! Rhetorical, as in alumni care. Other than that, if I ask or you offer...it's more likely to discuss the social setting and it does not act to impress me academically. Dummies go to good schools and smart people go to average schools.

That said, if this was a straight up "be with the Jones'" move for BU, YES, I'd say that this move makes sense because it appeases the IVORY TOWER types at BU. The Patriot IS one of those conferences you want to affiliate with, precisely why deep down in certain circles, the NU community are likely pissed off.

But this move doesn't accomplish some things: It doesn't help BU's debt problems; it won't help bring more students in to games (the school is heavily international and students are not all of a sudden coming out to watch BU vs. "the real" (PL-wise) BU. That's not the only problem with student-attendance (forget alumni and local support...that's never changing)-- You are still dealing with non-internationals that chose BU because of the urban setting, e.g. NYU. They could care less--generally speaking--about "rah-rah sis-boom-bah" college athletics / campus activities. They are here to go to school, meet a broad base of people, and go out in an urban setting. This isn't your traditional college experience.

And the big thing this doesn't help? YOU ARE NOT GETTING THE JOE JONES', Chambers, Rick Pitino's, etc. anymore to coach. You will get very good hoop coaches...but with the AI...forget it...you are not getting top-tier young coaches. Too much to deal with. And BU has some academically kids it is recruiting now...and they will hold a recruiting advantage because of the Agganis and the city of Boston's environs, but they will not be able to get in some other players. And anyone saying otherwise is kidding themselves. They definitely are recruiting in a different pool now...a much smaller pool that has about 40-45 schools in in it (IVY, Patriot, and one-off schools in certain leagues like the CAA e.g. William and Mary, Big South's Davidson, etc.).

That is NOT attractive to a coach such as those BU regularly attracts for the job. They are lucky with Joe Jones as he has a history of working at these types of institutions. Next coach...not so much. Joe is a quality dude, his brother was my Coach at Albany when I played my frosh year on JV...and that family stresses academics.

Sorry for the rant...been holding it in and it is more than just about BU...it's about realignment in general. And forget spelling and English, I am royally hung the **** over.

[MplsBison]

PL lax is strong and it is a growing sport, that being said I don't think lacrosse (yet...probably not for another generation or so) is the type of sport that really rallies its alumni/local fans to attend games, come back to alma mater etc. Spring season collegiete sports are pretty much an "after-thought" for most fans.

Spring season is always going to be the lame duck season in college athletics, no matter what sport you try to stick in there. Baseball, softball, track, lacrosse, soccer, rugby - nothing is every going to work like football in the fall.

I think it could be as simply explained as spring being the time when everyone is gearing up to leave campus and go home for the year while fall is when everyone is coming back and getting excited to be back at school for another year.

[MplsBison]

Stability and Academics

The PL gives BU those two things that no other conference outside the Ivy could have.

I think for once during this whole ordeal there was a decision driven by a non-athletic reason.

Gotta be academics by far.

The PL is an academic brand, whether I like to admit it or not. To be able to rub elbows with the PL schools is as close as BU is going to get with rubbing elbows with Harvard.

[aceinthehole]

Stability and Academics

The PL gives BU those two things that no other conference outside the Ivy could have.

I think for once during this whole ordeal there was a decision driven by a non-athletic reason.

I agree and the BU President said it himself.

With all due respect to PL institutions, this move wasn't about athletics at all. BU gained stability by leaving the uncertainty of the AE and improved its academic profile by joining the PL.

I think the PL picked up a quality program, but honestly any DI schools that doen't sponsor football and baseball doesn't bring a lot athletically. Their #1 sport will remain in another conference - Hockey East. Their basketball program draws as many fans to its games as Sacred Heart, and MLax has a lot of potentail but has yet to even field a D_I team.

I think this is a good move for both sides, but let's not focus on athletics, because it is clear from both sides that wasn't the primamry reason for the move.

[MplsBison]

I've been holding back for awhile (read: Years) on re-alignment.

I've also held back on the move for BU. I've held back on NU and the CAA's direction. And I'v held back on the AE front office.

All my opinion:

1. W/ regard to the AE, BU simply ****ed the AE. They did not know what was happening, cross-town rival NU didn't know what was happening (and don't kid yourselves, in some circles they are pissed...they wanted the PL years ago...not the CAAA). BU held out on so many things including calling Hockey East the America East, something all schools including BC agreed to, because they wanted to have the leeway to get out. If the A-Ten came calling, I'd understand but the PL. Now I am bitter and pissed off. Why? Because Hockey East-America East was a done deal, and with that brought America East. I am not kidding...it was THAT DONE OF A DEAL!!!! Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know the details of what went down...and I promise you that I do. And if our commish was pro-active, she would have made a lot more moves IN GENERAL irrespective of the BU move. I don't fully blame her...I blame the conference Presidents.

2. Love NUHF like a brother...so if he says otherwise I am going to have to put sand in his beer when we share one next (yah...my travel's are over brother for now...let's get a beer ASAP): NU CANNOT BE HAPPY WITH A SOUTHERN DIRECTION OF THE CAA. Yes, the mid-Atlantic is a recruiting area academically. Yes, some schools that remain in the CAA are very good academically. Yes, the CAA is still a better league than the AE, infinitely better as of now in hoops. But it is a one-bid league and NONE of the schools being bandied about for membership, aside from Stony Brook, is near the caliber of NU academically. I don't want to hear "Princeton Review" "Rankings" etc. Academically, Elon, Coastal, App State, et al, barring Davidson, are pooh-pooed by the academic integrity and breadth of NU's offerings. Bringing me to my next point.

3. If one more person discusses academics as a reason to move a conference I am going to KILL them. Literally, I may need character witnesses at my manslaughter trial to defend justified homicide. NONE OF THESE MOVES ARE ACADEMICALLY RELATED. NONE!!! Let me repeat that...NONE. Unless you are certain leagues, e.g. Patriot, IVY, the Little East, etc...it doesn't matter. If so, VANDY would have left the ACC, Stanford the Pac-whatever, etc. It's a joke people. Bringing me to my final point.

4. Conference re-alignment has its genesis in stability and/ or EGO to be affiliated with a "name league and/or a set of schools," and MONEY when it comes down to certain leagues with multi-bids, tv contracts and NCAA payouts. This is at EVERY level of DI (low, mid and high-major). It's about positioning yourself for the NEXT MOVE on the NEXT realignment. And much like financial market corrections...there will be a market correction on realignment in 3-5 years. The only legitimate thing I have heard about the BU move (and others) is conference stability. That said, BU created this instability in the AE twice (AE-4 and Hockey East/America East)...which is why I am bitter about this move.

In the end, even ego to be affiliated with name schools is a red-herring. I am sure everyone of us in the real world can appreciate that aside from about 50 schools...nobody cares where you went as long as you did the job, unless you are in a field where research was important. In the end, we all care about who can do the job. In fact, unless I ask I am totally turned off when someone struts (both socially and in a business setting) where they went to college. WHO CARES?! Rhetorical, as in alumni care. Other than that, if I ask or you offer...it's more likely to discuss the social setting and it does not act to impress me academically. Dummies go to good schools and smart people go to average schools.

That said, if this was a straight up "be with the Jones'" move for BU, YES, I'd say that this move makes sense because it appeases the IVORY TOWER types at BU. The Patriot IS one of those conferences you want to affiliate with, precisely why deep down in certain circles, the NU community are likely pissed off.

But this move doesn't accomplish some things: It doesn't help BU's debt problems; it won't help bring more students in to games (the school is heavily international and students are not all of a sudden coming out to watch BU vs. "the real" (PL-wise) BU. That's not the only problem with student-attendance (forget alumni and local support...that's never changing)-- You are still dealing with non-internationals that chose BU because of the urban setting, e.g. NYU. They could care less--generally speaking--about "rah-rah sis-boom-bah" college athletics / campus activities. They are here to go to school, meet a broad base of people, and go out in an urban setting. This isn't your traditional college experience.

And the big thing this doesn't help? YOU ARE NOT GETTING THE JOE JONES', Chambers, Rick Pitino's, etc. anymore to coach. You will get very good hoop coaches...but with the AI...forget it...you are not getting top-tier young coaches. Too much to deal with. And BU has some academically kids it is recruiting now...and they will hold a recruiting advantage because of the Agganis and the city of Boston's environs, but they will not be able to get in some other players. And anyone saying otherwise is kidding themselves. They definitely are recruiting in a different pool now...a much smaller pool that has about 40-45 schools in in it (IVY, Patriot, and one-off schools in certain leagues like the CAA e.g. William and Mary, Big South's Davidson, etc.).

That is NOT attractive to a coach such as those BU regularly attracts for the job. They are lucky with Joe Jones as he has a history of working at these types of institutions. Next coach...not so much. Joe is a quality dude, his brother was my Coach at Albany when I played my frosh year on JV...and that family stresses academics.

Sorry for the rant...been holding it in and it is more than just about BU...it's about realignment in general. And forget spelling and English, I am royally hung the **** over.

The CAA is most definitely a one-bid bball league. And are they really that much better than the AE? Who do they have now? Drexel and GMU?

AE has some decent teams too, Vermont comes to mind.



And in general the realignment crazy may have very little to do with academics, but in this very specific case I do think it was academic motivated. BU can potentially expect to be enrolling a higher profile of students now that they can call themselves a PL school.

[MplsBison]

I agree and the BU President said it himself.

With all due respect to PL institutions, this move wasn't about athletics at all. BU gained stability by leaving the uncertainty of the AE and improved its academic profile by joining the PL.

I think the PL picked up a quality program, but honestly any DI schools that doen't sponsor football and baseball doesn't bring a lot athletically. Their #1 sport will remain in another conference - Hockey East. Their basketball program draws as many fans to its games as Sacred Heart, and MLax has a lot of potentail but has yet to even field a D_I team.

I think this is a good move for both sides, but let's not focus on athletics, because it is clear from both sides that wasn't the primamry reason for the move.

Baseball doesn't have ____ to do with college athletics realignment.

Wisconsin doesn't have a baseball team. So you'd reject them? Come on..

[carney2]

All this talk of hockey and lacrosse explains why I had to stifle a yawn on Friday when I first heard that Boston University will be joining the Patriot League.

[aceinthehole]

Baseball doesn't have ____ to do with college athletics realignment.

Wisconsin doesn't have a baseball team. So you'd reject them? Come on..

It's almost un-American for a college not to sponsor both Baseball and Football, that's all.

It has nothing to do with conference realignment, but I have serious reservations about any school that chooses not to sponsor BOTH baseball and football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's almost un-American for a college not to sponsor both Baseball and Football, that's all.

It has nothing to do with conference realignment, but I have serious reservations about any school that chooses not to sponsor BOTH baseball and football.

Title IX. Don't forget they're a member of CAA wrestling, too.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

4. Conference re-alignment has its genesis in stability and/ or EGO to be affiliated with a "name league and/or a set of schools," and MONEY when it comes down to certain leagues with multi-bids, tv contracts and NCAA payouts. This is at EVERY level of DI (low, mid and high-major). It's about positioning yourself for the NEXT MOVE on the NEXT realignment. And much like financial market corrections...there will be a market correction on realignment in 3-5 years. The only legitimate thing I have heard about the BU move (and others) is conference stability. That said, BU created this instability in the AE twice (AE-4 and Hockey East/America East)...which is why I am bitter about this move.

In the end, even ego to be affiliated with name schools is a red-herring. I am sure everyone of us in the real world can appreciate that aside from about 50 schools...nobody cares where you went as long as you did the job, unless you are in a field where research was important. In the end, we all care about who can do the job. In fact, unless I ask I am totally turned off when someone struts (both socially and in a business setting) where they went to college. WHO CARES?! Rhetorical, as in alumni care. Other than that, if I ask or you offer...it's more likely to discuss the social setting and it does not act to impress me academically. Dummies go to good schools and smart people go to average schools.

That said, if this was a straight up "be with the Jones'" move for BU, YES, I'd say that this move makes sense because it appeases the IVORY TOWER types at BU. The Patriot IS one of those conferences you want to affiliate with, precisely why deep down in certain circles, the NU community are likely pissed off.

I have to admit that this makes sense. But what doesn't make sense is the timing. Why now? Why is BU looking around at its house that it created and thinking that it's a dump? I refuse to believe that it had to do with the "winds of realignment". It wasn't to head off a pitch from the CAA - it would have been easier to just say "no". It wasn't to head off a bunch of other suitors - the only two possible suitors were the CAA and PL. It has to involve the stability of the AE, but from an outsiders' view, it really doesn't seem all that unstable. Quinnipiac, NJIT and (now, rumor has it) Delaware State would jump at the opportunity to join up, it seems.

If this move was telegraphed for a couple of years, or paired with some statements recently about wishing more rigorous academics over the last six months, I can get that. But it still seems to me a somewhat hurried move by BU.

[aceinthehole]

List of D-I schools that do not sposnor baseball AND football:

American
Boston University
Cleveland State
DePaul
Denver
Detriot-Mercy
Drexel
IUPUI
Loyola (MD)
Loyola (IL)
Marquette
UMKC
Providence
St. Francis NY
Vermont
UW-Green Bay

[Dane96]

Tulsa...not having baseball? Wow...that is a bit shocking. But they have good football program...so I think they are off this list?!

[MplsBison]

It's almost un-American for a college not to sponsor both Baseball and Football, that's all.

It has nothing to do with conference realignment, but I have serious reservations about any school that chooses not to sponsor BOTH baseball and football.

In this day of title IX, football is a no-brainer and baseball also makes little sense in climates where home games aren't realistic until May.

[MplsBison]

Title IX. Don't forget they're a member of CAA wrestling, too.

It would make sense for them to move to the EIWA, now.

[MplsBison]

Tulsa...not having baseball? Wow...that is a bit shocking. But they have good football program...so I think they are off this list?!

Yeah, Tulsa is usually one of the more competitive - or at least highest scoring - football programs in the CUSA the last few years. Or so I thought.

[MplsBison]

List of D-I schools that do not sposnor baseball AND football:

American
Boston University
Cleveland State
DePaul
Denver
Detriot-Mercy
Drexel
IUPUI
Loyola (MD)
Loyola (IL)
Marquette
UMKC
Providence
St. Francis NY
Tulsa
Vermont
UW-Green Bay

That's it?

How many DI schools out of the total membership do not sponsor baseball? I would've thought somewhere around 1/3rd and most of those would not have football.

[UAalum72]

Title IX. Don't forget they're a member of CAA wrestling, too.

Boston U first dropped baseball in 1973, before any Title IX regs were out. They restarted it in the late 80s, after Title IX regs were out, then dropped it again in 1996 citing sub-par facilities (as well as Title IX - again). They dropped football a year later.

But at least their hockey/basketball arena is named after an All-American football player who also played Major League Baseball.

[UAalum72]

That's it?

How many DI schools out of the total membership do not sponsor baseball? I would've thought somewhere around 1/3rd and most of those would not have football.
There were 345 Division I basketball teams last year, 246 football, and 297 baseball (though a couple might be D-II playing baseball up one division).

[DSUrocks07]

Delaware State wants out of the MEAC and into a northeast based conference in the worst way. They are the most northeast HBCU and feel they're stuck in a southern conference that forces them to overlap their mission with a myriad of other HBCU's instead of marketing themselves to AA students in the northeast where there aren't HBCU options available. It also wouldn't hurt their feelings if they could somehow manage to get into the NEC so they could cut football scholarships and drop the women's equestrian team that successfully sued them under Title IX and racial discrimination.

NEC for football and America East for all other sports would be a perfect fit IMHO. Felt that way for years now. Just needed an opportunity to open up in either conference. With the talk of Albany potentially going to the CAA and now with BU leaving the AEast, the table is set, the opportunity couldn't set up any better for us.

Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk 2

[Ivytalk]

Boston U first dropped baseball in 1973, before any Title IX regs were out. They restarted it in the late 80s, after Title IX regs were out, then dropped it again in 1996 citing sub-par facilities (as well as Title IX - again). They dropped football a year later.

But at least their hockey/basketball arena is named after an All-American football player who also played Major League Baseball.

Harry Agganis, the Golden Greek. Died way too young.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

NEC for football and America East for all other sports would be a perfect fit IMHO. Felt that way for years now. Just needed an opportunity to open up in either conference. With the talk of Albany potentially going to the CAA and now with BU leaving the AEast, the table is set, the opportunity couldn't set up any better for us.

Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk 2

Interesting. The final piece of this puzzle would have to be a football member leaving the NEC for another conference. Would that be Albany? Maybe, but I'm not so sure.

[henfan]

It's almost un-American for a college not to sponsor both Baseball and Football, that's all.

AMEN!

[dgtw]

The "get" is that it's an all-sports member, the first all-sports member to join since Fordham (though it doesn't have football).

How are they "all sports" if they don't play all the sports? No football or baseball team.

[TheRevSFA]

List of D-I schools that do not sposnor baseball AND football:

American
Boston University
Cleveland State
DePaul
Denver
Detriot-Mercy
Drexel
IUPUI
Loyola (MD)
Loyola (IL)
Marquette
UMKC
Providence
St. Francis NY
Vermont
UW-Green Bay


A&M Corpus Christi, Oral Roberts, technically UT-Arlington, UALR as well

[DFW HOYA]

A&M Corpus Christi, Oral Roberts, technically UT-Arlington, UALR as well

UTA has had a baseball program for many years.

http://www.utamavs.com/sports/m-basebl/txar-m-basebl-body.html

[TheRevSFA]

UTA has had a baseball program for many years.

http://www.utamavs.com/sports/m-basebl/txar-m-basebl-body.html

My fault read "or" instead of "and". My mistake

[Go...gate]

Obviously ECAC would be a step down in competition and therefore that wouldn't be the reason for the move. And by the way, you know as well as your grandmother knows that HE is second in the nation at best, now third with the split.

The only reason I could fathom is that they'd want to be with Colgate and the Ivy schools.

Not a bad group to be with.....

[Go...gate]

Here are four: NYU, George Washington, Northeastern, and Penn--the large urban institutions of the East.

Might want to add Columbia, Cornell, Brown and Rutgers.

[Go...gate]

Stability and Academics

The PL gives BU those two things that no other conference outside the Ivy could have.

I think for once during this whole ordeal there was a decision driven by a non-athletic reason.

Agreed.

[TheValleyRaider]

How are they "all sports" if they don't play all the sports? No football or baseball team.

"All-sports" means that they are a full member of the league as opposed to a "one sport" affiliate (like Fordham and Georgetown football). Just a different way to say "full member"

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.collegecrosse.com/2012/6/15/3089412/boston-university-joins-patriot-league-hand-waves-at-america-east


This is a huge opportunity for the Terriers as they look to develop their varsity men's program. With yearly games against Bucknell, Colgate, Army, Navy, and Lehigh, Boston University has the opportunity to sell recruits on high-end competition and a platform that carries with it a CBS Sports Network broadcast package. Most importantly -- like Marquette before them and Michigan before Marquette -- entrance into an established league provides quick credibility, even if the curve toward success is pronounced and exceedingly difficult. This should give the Terriers a leg up in program growth over schools like High Point and Mercer, which are wandering the Division I landscape with only a donkey and looking for games of bridge wherever they can.

It'll be tough for the Terriers to move into the rich middle of the conference, but the alternative -- riding shotgun in the America East and hoping for the best -- isn't nearly as enticing as playing in what has become one of the toughest leagues in the nation.

The inclusion of Boston University in the Patriot League fold brings the league's lacrosse membership to eight, which may alleviate some of the tiebreaking insanity that has gripped the conference with only seven members playing six league games. This is both a positive and a negative, as chaos has its charms (mostly, that it's totally bonkers).

Now, about all those things that the Terriers need to do before they can actually play in the Patriot League. . . .

This blogger seems to imply that, yes, the PL was the destination because of men's lax, despite the fact that AE has an established lower-tier lax conference - and due to the TV exposure that PL lax brings them. One commenter on the piece even went as far to imply that they were a better choice than the CAA because of it because their lax programs are headed elsewhere.

It still seems weird to me that BU would decide to leave solely over men's lax, but it can't be counted out as a possibility.

[Engineer91]

It would make sense for them to move to the EIWA, now.

Yes that would make sense. They will have to request membership there and then wait for that to be voted on. Hard to believe that they would be turned down if they want to join.

[DFW HOYA]

It still seems weird to me that BU would decide to leave solely over men's lax, but it can't be counted out as a possibility.

If that was the case, why didn't BU join as a lacrosse-only member?

[Engineer91]

1. Is there a school these days as militantly anti-football as BU? What blackmail does John Silber still have over the place?

Swarthmore

[danefan]

If that was the case, why didn't BU join as a lacrosse-only member?

Not sure the AEast would have let them. Is there any history of moving conferences for one sport when your own conference has that sport at the same level?

[TheValleyRaider]

Not sure the AEast would have let them. Is there any history of moving conferences for one sport when your own conference has that sport at the same level?

I would guess most conferences have some kind of bylaw that says you can't. Independence is one thing, but not another conference...

That being said, something about this BU move just doesn't seem to sit well. I think LFN's question of why now is probably most apt, but of course there's always more to this story than we're going to see in public. I would have preferred a football school, but welcome Terriers

[danefan]

I would guess most conferences have some kind of bylaw that says you can't. Independence is one thing, but not another conference...

That being said, something about this BU move just doesn't seem to sit well. I think LFN's question of why now is probably most apt, but of course there's always more to this story than we're going to see in public. I would have preferred a football school, but welcome Terriers

BU has always driven the boat in the AEast despite the animosity that created with other schools. BU was in as good a position of anyone else in the AEast to see what is coming. I don't think its pretty for the remaining AEast schools. And if we don't see an announcement from the AEast on who they are adding in the next week or so, I think you can all be deduce that BU jumped from a sinking ship and knew it.

[NHwildEcat]

BU has always driven the boat in the AEast despite the animosity that created with other schools. BU was in as good a position of anyone else in the AEast to see what is coming. I don't think its pretty for the remaining AEast schools. And if we don't see an announcement from the AEast on who they are adding in the next, I think you can all be deduce that BU jumped from a sinking ship and knew it.

Well, let's hope that is not the case.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If that was the case, why didn't BU join as a lacrosse-only member?

I'm not sure if AE bylaws requires schools to play in the conference if they sponsor the sport, but I'm guessing yes.

[danefan]

Well, let's hope that is not the case.

Agreed, but I have no faith in the administration of the league or the presidents or ADs.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

BU has always driven the boat in the AEast despite the animosity that created with other schools. BU was in as good a position of anyone else in the AEast to see what is coming. I don't think its pretty for the remaining AEast schools. And if we don't see an announcement from the AEast on who they are adding in the next, I think you can all be deduce that BU jumped from a sinking ship and knew it.

It seems though that there are at least a couple candidates that would accept bids tomorrow if offered, which is why I don't buy the "sinking ship" option. If the AE had NJIT join due to lack of options, would Albany, Maine and UNH really leave over that? Furthermore, the only conference that could really accommodate them is... the Patriot League, if they want football, or perhaps the MAAC. Is there some other option I'm missing?

Given these options, you have to think that an intact AE is their best option.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

The AEast still possesses a golden ticket, a men's basketball bid, so sounding its death knell would be premature.

[RichH2]

What happens next?
Femovich indicated that expansion was put on hold until scholarship issue resolved. Clearly BU move, while a shock to us, was in moton for a number of years. She also noted that there have been numerous inguiries about PL membership. From who? My opinion is there is already a 10 th school . Full? Partial , ie Fordham in Bball, some else for football?
CAa,NEC,AE, Big South, SoCon all with issues. A real full member in all sports? Does W&M have Lax? Gosh gee willikers, will the drama never end?

[aceinthehole]

The AEast still possesses a golden ticket, a men's basketball bid, so sounding its death knell would be premature.

True, but they are at risk losing an AQ in at least 4 sports (FH, M/W Lax, Baseball, and Softball) if Stony Brook leaves. The only 'available' schools that can deliver all those sports in 1 package is Quinnipiac, Bryant, Sacred Heart, or Monmouth - and 3 of those school have football to worry about as well.

NJIT, CCSU, and Delaware State lack 1 or more of those sports, and yet again 2 of those schools have football to worry about.

[aceinthehole]

It seems though that there are at least a couple candidates that would accept bids tomorrow if offered, which is why I don't buy the "sinking ship" option. If the AE had NJIT join due to lack of options, would Albany, Maine and UNH really leave over that? Furthermore, the only conference that could really accommodate them is... the Patriot League, if they want football, or perhaps the MAAC. Is there some other option I'm missing?

Given these options, you have to think that an intact AE is their best option.

Yep, because as for any other AE teams (beside SBU) leaving - where can they go?

Let's assume the PL has room for 1 more - who would they invite - Binghamton, maybe?

The NEC has 12 members and really doesn't have room for anyone if we are all fighting for 1 basketball bid.

The MAAC has 10 members, so maybe there is room for 2 more. So who best fits the MAAC profile - Hartford, Vermont?

As you can see, the AE schools really have no choice but to try to make the best of it by expansion.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

True, but they are at risk losing an AQ in at least 4 sports (FH, M/W Lax, Baseball, and Softball) if Stony Brook leaves. The only 'available' schools that can deliver all those sports in 1 package is Quinnipiac, Bryant, Sacred Heart, or Monmouth - and 3 of those school have football to worry about as well.

NJIT, CCSU, and Delaware State lack 1 or more of those sports, and yet again 2 of those schools have football to worry about.

There's Lacrosse again. Interesting that a Stony Brook departure plus BU would have mean losing an autobid in men's lax - or if another school left the AE men's lax would be in jeopardy.

[ngineer]

Yes that would make sense. They will have to request membership there and then wait for that to be voted on. Hard to believe that they would be turned down if they want to join.

Yes a nice addition to the EIWA, with natural nearby rivalries in Harvard and Brown. Could also be a replacement for F&M. The Diplomats have really had a long hard stretch in trying to compete at this level. With such a long tradition, I hate to see them struggle so long, but I'm not sure they have the resources to improve. So I can see BU as possible replacement there. PL does not have wrestling as league sport.

[Bogus Megapardus]

"You DON'T need to study!!! ....... you go to BU...."

http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/The-Social-Network.jpg


Precisely. That scene from The Social Network was my very first reaction. With this decision, the Patriot has obliterated its reputation for academic integrity. Boston U. is about three gradations beneath Patriot League safety school level.

Horrible, horrible decision. Almost (but not quite) as bad as the decision to add American U.

[Dane96]

I honestly was waiting for someone else to bring this up....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Precisely. That scene from The Social Network was my very first reaction. With this decision, the Patriot has obliterated its reputation for academic integrity. Boston U. is about three gradations beneath Patriot League safety school level.

Horrible, horrible decision. Almost (but not quite) as bad as the decision to add American U.

Last I checked, Penn and Cornell were not planning on leaving the Ivy League.

Nor, last I checked, was Johns Hopkins, RPI or MIT planning on making two different transitions to Division I athletics, meaning they could become full members sometime in the mid-2020s.

Finally, Vanderbilt and Rutgers aren't leaving their money conferences either. Same goes with Villanova. Or Richmond.

So I'm at a loss to figure out whom the PL should have considered in your universe to maintain "academic integrity". Davidson? William & Mary? Swarthmore?

[Go...gate]

Precisely. That scene from The Social Network was my very first reaction. With this decision, the Patriot has obliterated its reputation for academic integrity. Boston U. is about three gradations beneath Patriot League safety school level.

Horrible, horrible decision. Almost (but not quite) as bad as the decision to add American U.

On this one, Bogus, I respectfully disagree.

[carney2]

Precisely. That scene from The Social Network was my very first reaction. With this decision, the Patriot has obliterated its reputation for academic integrity. Boston U. is about three gradations beneath Patriot League safety school level.

Horrible, horrible decision. Almost (but not quite) as bad as the decision to add American U.

Sorry, Bogie, I agree with LFN on this one. Not a lot of opportunities out there and, unless there are some truly unpredictable seismic upheavals in the FBS/mid-major athletic world, the Patriot League will have to make do with grabbing some low hanging fruit. Besides, this decision was partly motivated by lacrosse. I would think that you and that other guy who occasionally attends a lax game would be overjoyed

[Go...gate]

U.S. News has BU at #53 in National Universities, right behind Tulane and RPI and tied with Fordham.

[DFW HOYA]

Open question, and not a leading one: If a school with a lesser reputation eagerly wanted to join the PL, could they be admitted? Duquesne, for instance. (American is not exactly on anyone's Top 25 list but they joined, didn't they?)

If Center Valley only wants to admit top 50 schools, the expansion pool for football is nonexistent.

[NHwildEcat]

PL can have Hartford as far as I am concerned. They are a beacon of academic growth.

[Bogus Megapardus]

So I'm at a loss to figure out whom the PL should have considered in your universe to maintain "academic integrity". Davidson? William & Mary? Swarthmore?


On this one, Bogus, I respectfully disagree.


Sorry, Bogie, I agree with LFN on this one.


Open question, and not a leading one: If a school with a lesser reputation eagerly wanted to join the PL, could they be admitted?


I suppose I am overstating things a bit. Maybe I am relying on my own recollection of Boston U. from the 1980s instead of acknowledging present-day circumstances.

It's now obvious why Boston U. decided to add lacrosse, of course. Undoubtedly this has been in the works for some time.

I wonder how Boston U. fans and alumni are reacting to this. Hockey still will be the main sport in the Back Bay, but to fans see the all sport move to the Patriot as a positive change for the Terriers? I would think so.

[Sader87]

BU is sort of an odd fit for the PL...moreso size-wise, institutionally etc. than anything. Not being a huge fan of the Olympic sports in general, I really don't think they add much to the Patriot League overall (others will disagree).

Sort of a "marriage of convenience" in my book...PL wanted to expand (particularly in New England) and BU wanted the academic prestige that being in the PL offers.

[Bogus Megapardus]

One more thing - In the Patriot League "BU" means Bucknell University. That can't change. I'm not sure what other shorthand appellation ought to be ascribed to the "new" BU, but it's going to have to be something different.

[Sader87]

To me and 99% of people in the New York/New England area, BU has always been Boston University.

[NHwildEcat]

To me and 99% of people in the New York/New England area, BU has always been Boston University.

Yup...sucks to BU...thank God for hockey or else we would never see that BC safety school.

[DSUrocks07]

True, but they are at risk losing an AQ in at least 4 sports (FH, M/W Lax, Baseball, and Softball) if Stony Brook leaves. The only 'available' schools that can deliver all those sports in 1 package is Quinnipiac, Bryant, Sacred Heart, or Monmouth - and 3 of those school have football to worry about as well.

NJIT, CCSU, and Delaware State lack 1 or more of those sports, and yet again 2 of those schools have football to worry about.

Delaware State is starting up a Women's Lacrosse team in 2013. I'm sure the other spring sports could be added if need be.

Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk 2

[DFW HOYA]

"They've been trying to get out of the league for 15 years to the A-10 or the CAA. I personally say you're either with us or you're not. They went to the Patriot, which is a conference that advocates for academics. We wish them the best."

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/8067461/how-does-boston-university-departure-affect-america-east-college-basketball

[Bogus Megapardus]

To me and 99% of people in the New York/New England area, BU has always been Boston University.

No question about that. When I hear "BU" the first thing I think of is Boston University (not Baylor or Brandeis or Butler or anything else). But in the Patriot, Bucknell really has to get first dibs on the moniker. They've earned it.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Yup...sucks to BU...thank God for hockey or else we would never see that BC safety school.

xlolxxrotatehxxnodx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

"It's a turbulent time, but I like where we are," said Fiore. "We want to be the Gonzaga of the East. We're committed to the America East and the next level. We're putting in $20-25 million into a basketball arena. We were just in the College World Series. We're committed from the top down. I like the people in our league, and I think we have a great new commissioner in Amy Huchthausen."

They. Are. So. Gone.

[Bogus Megapardus]

"They've been trying to get out of the league for 15 years to the A-10 or the CAA. I personally say you're either with us or you're not. They went to the Patriot, which is a conference that advocates for academics. We wish them the best."

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/8067461/how-does-boston-university-departure-affect-america-east-college-basketball

I recall a quote from the former AE commish some time back in which he described the AE as being focused principally on academics, and that he envisioned the AE to "be like the Patriot League."

I'll see if I can find the quote.

[whitey]

They. Are. So. Gone.

LOL. Pretty sure VCU and Old Dominion said they same thing about a week before they left their current leagues too.

[carney2]

No question about that. When I hear "BU" the first thing I think of is Boston University (not Baylor or Brandeis or Butler or anything else). But in the Patriot, Bucknell really has to get first dibs on the moniker. They've earned it.

I'm going with Buffaloes and Mongrels.

[Bogus Megapardus]

"Fiore said he was disappointed in the decision since the two schools had developed a friendly rivalry. This wasn't Duke-Carolina or even Lehigh-Lafayette, but it was evolving."

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/8067461/how-does-boston-university-departure-affect-america-east-college-basketball

Someone please tell Andy Katz that he's doing it wrong. It's Lafayette-Lehigh, not the other way around.

[van]

"Fiore said he was disappointed in the decision since the two schools had developed a friendly rivalry. This wasn't Duke-Carolina or even Lehigh-Lafayette, but it was evolving."

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/8067461/how-does-boston-university-departure-affect-america-east-college-basketball

Someone please tell Andy Katz that he's doing it wrong. It's Lafayette-Lehigh, not the other way around.

Their you go with that complex again Boogie, everyone knows its Lehigh-Lafayette.

[MplsBison]

LOL. Pretty sure VCU and Old Dominion said they same thing about a week before they left their current leagues too.

Not to the CAA, they're not.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Mongrels

Or perhaps Mongols, like the esteemed mascot of Eastern Pennsylvania's noted Faber College. Knowledge is Good.


http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Faber-College-Animal-House-Funny-College-T-Shirt-/00/$%28KGrHqMOKjME0d2QwSVIBN,z%29B6r,!~~_35.JPG

[DFW HOYA]

Or perhaps Mongols, like the esteemed mascot of Eastern Pennsylvania's noted Faber College. Knowledge is Good.

For our younger viewers that never understood the symbolism of the Faber Mongols:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_00KAacxtpEM/Rx2ZnqpHYJI/AAAAAAAACQw/vqt1koF967A/s400/mongol+ad.jpg

[Tim James]

Holy Cross and BU in the same conference even though Holy Cross has more in common with BC than they do with BU. Something doesn't seem right. I get why BU would jump at the Patriot League but I don't see why the PL would jump at the chance to add them. They could have have found someone who plays football and fit their academic profile a bit more if they wanted an 8th school for lacrosse so bad. All BU gives you is "Boston" and nothing else and you already have Holy Cross for that.

[van]

They could have have found someone who plays football and fit their academic profile a bit more if they wanted an 8th school for lacrosse so bad.

Really?

[heath]

Really?

yep,all they needed to do is wait.Why rush to do the BU thing? Wait and let all the jumps to the FBS and realignments happen at the FCS level and grab one or more football schools in the near future.(a few in VA make sense)

[Go...gate]

yep,all they needed to do is wait.Why rush to do the BU thing? Wait and let all the jumps to the FBS and realignments happen at the FCS level and grab one or more football schools in the near future.(a few in VA make sense)

The VA schools aren't interested.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Fordham for all sports makes too much sense. Maybe, just maybe, the higher-ups at Rose Hill will finally figure it out.

[DSUrocks07]

Would Central Connecticut State consider moving to the America East for all sports and become an affiliate in the NEC for football? They are the only public institution in the NEC right now. Does fit the profile as well.

Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk 2

[Sader87]

Holy Cross and BU in the same conference even though Holy Cross has more in common with BC than they do with BU. Something doesn't seem right. I get why BU would jump at the Patriot League but I don't see why the PL would jump at the chance to add them. They could have have found someone who plays football and fit their academic profile a bit more if they wanted an 8th school for lacrosse so bad. All BU gives you is "Boston" and nothing else and you already have Holy Cross for that.

There's no Miss Worcester's diner in Boston though....

BU and Holy Cross played football and basketball against one another just about yearly in the 70's, 80's and 90's but it never seemed like a "rivalry" game. Schools (and their students/alums) didn't really have much in common thus it seemed like just "any other" game etc.

Rick Pitino lamented the fact that BU wasn't a "basketball school" when his Terriers beat a good HC team in hoop in the late 70's and the win was met with a collective yawn on Commonwealth Ave...he left BU shortly thereafter.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

All BU gives you is "Boston" and nothing else and you already have Holy Cross for that.

Check that map again. That's like saying "Penn gives you 'Philadelphia' and you already have Lafayette for that".

[MplsBison]

I suppose I am overstating things a bit. Maybe I am relying on my own recollection of Boston U. from the 1980s instead of acknowledging present-day circumstances.

It's now obvious why Boston U. decided to add lacrosse, of course. Undoubtedly this has been in the works for some time.

I wonder how Boston U. fans and alumni are reacting to this. Hockey still will be the main sport in the Back Bay, but to fans see the all sport move to the Patriot as a positive change for the Terriers? I would think so.

Maybe the BU admin, upon watching The Social Network, had enough of how BU is considered a lower school in Boston and wanted to rub elbows with higher academic reputation schools?

[Sader87]

Maybe the BU admin, upon watching The Social Network, had enough of how BU is considered a lower school in Boston and wanted to rub elbows with higher academic reputation schools?

I don't think you're that far off Bison....it's a decent move overall for the PL but I'm not exactly doing cartwheels over it...as the kids are wont to say today, my reaction to this move overall was "meh."

[bison137]

Boston U. is about three gradations beneath Patriot League safety school level.




Everyone has a different way of judging schools - many of them subjective - but the SAT/ACT scores of Boston U are very close to those of Lafayette.

[bison137]

.Football ticket sales and revenue support, MAKE the athletic budget.

Football is a big money-loser at every PL school, including Lehigh.

[DFW HOYA]

Does all this affect football? This column is asking about it, too.

http://dailyitem.com/0200_sports/x1406730617/Bill-Bowman-on-college-sports-Terriers-make-splash-with-move

[UNH Fanboi]

Precisely. That scene from The Social Network was my very first reaction. With this decision, the Patriot has obliterated its reputation for academic integrity. Boston U. is about three gradations beneath Patriot League safety school level.

Horrible, horrible decision. Almost (but not quite) as bad as the decision to add American U.

25%-75% SAT Ranges:
BU - 1770-2040
Lafayette - 1750-2060

So I guess that this means that Lafayette is already tarnishing the Patriot League's academic reputation.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

25%-75% SAT Ranges:
BU - 1770-2040
Lafayette - 1750-2060

So I guess that this means that Lafayette is already tarnishing the Patriot League's academic reputation.

You must spread reputation around before....

[MplsBison]

BU might actually be as good as the PL now, academically, but from the sounds of it - the perception had not caught up.

Not until now, at least.


Isn't there some legal saying like perception is 9/10 of the law? Something, anyway.

[Dane96]

BU's number one issue is its perception of Euro-Centric. Anyone saying otherwise has not lived in Boston long enough. Of course, it is a very good school...but the "Euro-trash" thing brings people to a different conclusion when you utter, "BU" in Boston. BC, or Chestnut Hill CC has a different perception: "Snob". "I am a double-eagle", or "I am a triple-eagle" are two phrases you never want to hear spoken. That said, awesome academic school.

I the end, both great schools...though the aura of BC far outweighs that of BU, though I tend to think BU is a more comprehensive reseach university.

[UAalum72]

Does all this affect football? This column is asking about it, too.

http://dailyitem.com/0200_sports/x1406730617/Bill-Bowman-on-college-sports-Terriers-make-splash-with-move

How can it directly affect football? Nothing has changed for Patriot League football.

He's also wrong to say Georgetown leaving would endanger the PL's autobid. FBS leagues need eight teams, but FCS leagues need only six.

[NHwildEcat]

BU's number one issue is its perception of Euro-Centric. Anyone saying otherwise has not lived in Boston long enough. Of course, it is a very good school...but the "Euro-trash" thing brings people to a different conclusion when you utter, "BU" in Boston. BC, or Chestnut Hill CC has a different perception: "Snob". "I am a double-eagle", or "I am a triple-eagle" are two phrases you never want to hear spoken. That said, awesome academic school.

I the end, both great schools...though the aura of BC far outweighs that of BU, though I tend to think BU is a more comprehensive reseach university.


...and BC thinks they are Notre Dame, when they are nothing but a shadow of ND.

[MplsBison]

...and BC thinks they are Notre Dame, when they are nothing but a shadow of ND.

Notre Dame is a shadow of Notre Dame. What has that football team done since Brady Quinn left?

[NHwildEcat]

Notre Dame is a shadow of Notre Dame. What has that football team done since Brady Quinn left?

Sure...but the difference is ND has a national fan base and deep roots in American football and culture...BC had some nice years with an undersized QB in the 80's, yet they think of themselves as a coaching destination when in reality they are a mere stepping stone towards better jobs. BC is competitive in MOST sports, but not competitive enough to win a National title outside of hockey.

[Engineer86]

Football is a big money-loser at every PL school, including Lehigh.

Does that consider alumni donations that come in part from being linked to the school, in part through football games?

[Engineer86]

25%-75% SAT Ranges:
BU - 1770-2040
Lafayette - 1750-2060

So I guess that this means that Lafayette is already tarnishing the Patriot League's academic reputation.

Absolutely! xsmileyclapx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Sure...but the difference is ND has a national fan base and deep roots in American football and culture...BC had some nice years with an undersized QB in the 80's, yet they think of themselves as a coaching destination when in reality they are a mere stepping stone towards better jobs. BC is competitive in MOST sports, but not competitive enough to win a National title outside of hockey.

That ND fan base is dying out, and their kids don't have that same godly reverence for Touchdown Jesus that their fathers do. At some point, TV people are going to realize this and ND will join a conference in all sports.

BC to me has always been seen by the fans more through the prism of region rather than religion, and I don't think I'm alone in that view. I'm pretty sure the commissioner of the ACC wasn't thinking that they were getting "Notre Dame Lite" when they looked at Boston College, they were looking at getting a piece of the Boston media market.

FWIW what I think will happen eventually to Notre Dame is that they'll make their own TV network, the Irish station, and then join the Big XII. You heard it here first. No way they join the Big Ten and share their money.

[DFW HOYA]

FWIW what I think will happen eventually to Notre Dame is that they'll make their own TV network, the Irish station, and then join the Big XII. You heard it here first.

Notre Dame isn't giving up annual games with USC, Navy and Michigan to play Baylor, Iowa State, and Texas Tech.

[GannonFan]

That ND fan base is dying out, and their kids don't have that same godly reverence for Touchdown Jesus that their fathers do. At some point, TV people are going to realize this and ND will join a conference in all sports.

BC to me has always been seen by the fans more through the prism of region rather than religion, and I don't think I'm alone in that view. I'm pretty sure the commissioner of the ACC wasn't thinking that they were getting "Notre Dame Lite" when they looked at Boston College, they were looking at getting a piece of the Boston media market.

FWIW what I think will happen eventually to Notre Dame is that they'll make their own TV network, the Irish station, and then join the Big XII. You heard it here first. No way they join the Big Ten and share their money.

I'm not convinced NBC wants to do that - yeah, the ND game doesn't draw as well as the SEC game on CBS or the regional broadcasts on ABC, but NBC doesn't pay as much to ND as the other networks need to pay to carry their games. And on the rare occasion where ND plays a bigtime game, NBC reaps the benefits. I don't see where NBC is losing much, if anything in this relationship. Either they show ND or they show something other than college football in the fall on Saturdays - I'm not sure that's a better option for them and they don't seem interested in getting into a bidding war for the other games.

With that said, I could see ND going to the Big XII, especially as long as they don't need to share money. But there'd be so many conditions with them entering that it may be like being an independent anyway.

[MplsBison]

Sure...but the difference is ND has a national fan base and deep roots in American football and culture...BC had some nice years with an undersized QB in the 80's, yet they think of themselves as a coaching destination when in reality they are a mere stepping stone towards better jobs. BC is competitive in MOST sports, but not competitive enough to win a National title outside of hockey.

BC winning a national title in football or men's bball is not impossible.

[MplsBison]

I'm not convinced NBC wants to do that - yeah, the ND game doesn't draw as well as the SEC game on CBS or the regional broadcasts on ABC, but NBC doesn't pay as much to ND as the other networks need to pay to carry their games. And on the rare occasion where ND plays a bigtime game, NBC reaps the benefits. I don't see where NBC is losing much, if anything in this relationship. Either they show ND or they show something other than college football in the fall on Saturdays - I'm not sure that's a better option for them and they don't seem interested in getting into a bidding war for the other games.

With that said, I could see ND going to the Big XII, especially as long as they don't need to share money. But there'd be so many conditions with them entering that it may be like being an independent anyway.

As long as ND can figure into the selection committee's top 4 for the FBS playoff, they're not joining any football conference.

The fact that they've joined Hockey East only cements their non-football relationship with the Big East, in my mind.

[Sader87]

BC winning a national title in football or men's bball is not impossible.

Not impossible, but improbable in today's world....plus they're BC.

By the by, we've won national titles in both basketball and baseball....just sayin'.

[NHwildEcat]

Not impossible, but improbable in today's world....plus they're BC.

By the by, we've won national titles in both basketball and baseball....just sayin'.

When did they win a NC in bball?

[NHwildEcat]

BC winning a national title in football or men's bball is not impossible.

Technically not impossible...but never going to happen!

They play in an amazing bball conference but they have no business there as they will never win. They will continue to get low seeds in the NCAAs and lose in the first or second rounds...just how it is. They will never win the recruiting battle with the Carolina schools in the ACC.

Football...they are nothing special. UMass will beat them...I am sure of it.

[Sader87]

When did they win a NC in bball?

NCAA champs in 1947....some may say that wasn't a true "national championship" then but we also won the NIT in 1954.

College World Series champs in 1952 btw

[NHwildEcat]

NCAA champs in 1947....some may say that wasn't a true "national championship" then but we also won the NIT in 1954.

College World Series champs in 1952 btw

OK. You got me there...they were once good. Now they are just average to awful. At least their CWS title was when it was still actual baseball and not the t-ball that is going on now a days.

They won't be winning anytime soon...college atheltics has only grown more difficult to continually build a program. BC doesn't get the top athletes as they are not the best option, plus BC themselves rule out certain players because they don't fit their academic profile...(which is how it should be) but they have no real feet to stand on for national titles anymore.

[Sader87]

Actually HC baseball has improved a lot the last few years...they were a game away from making the NCAA's (losing to Army in the third game of the best of 3 PL championship)...they also swept Stony Brook earlier in the season and beat Texas A&M once. Will we ever win the CWS again? No, but we are quickly becoming one of the better baseball programs in the Northeast.

[NHwildEcat]

Actually HC baseball has improved a lot the last few years...they were a game away from making the NCAA's (losing to Army in the third game of the best of 3 PL championship)...they also swept Stony Brook earlier in the season and beat Texas A&M once. Will we ever win the CWS again? No, but we are quickly becoming one of the better baseball programs in the Northeast.

I'm sorry...I just went back and read the last few comments...I thought you said BC won those titles...I didn't realize you has switched and were refering to HC.

I think you guys have a great school and athletics. It's not that I fault BC for being a school that can't win a NC, I fault them for their superiority complex that they suffer that allows them to think they are national contenders when they simply are not.

I wish HC would join HE as member 12...and I may be down for our game on Aug. 30!

I did know about the HC NC history...too bad the landscape has changed so much since.

[DFW HOYA]

While before my time, there are those who remember when Notre Dame and Holy Cross were considered the top two Catholic colleges in the US, with Fordham third. Boston College was a more of a commuter school then, while Georgetown and St. Joe's were considered regional schools.

But how things have changed. 40 years ago, Rev. J. Donald Monan, S.J. kept BC out of bankruptcy court and built a national university with a $1 billion endowment and a Top 40 ranking, while Rev. John Brooks S.J. chose to "stand pat" at Mt. St. James and HC drifted off the sports pages. Perhaps he considers Hockey East as a form of "entertainment", too.

[colorless raider]

While before my time, there are those who remember when Notre Dame and Holy Cross were considered the top two Catholic colleges in the US, with Fordham third. Boston College was a more of a commuter school then, while Georgetown and St. Joe's were considered regional schools.

But how things have changed. 40 years ago, Rev. J. Donald Monan, S.J. kept BC out of bankruptcy court and built a national university with a $1 billion endowment and a Top 40 ranking, while Rev. John Brooks S.J. chose to "stand pat" at Mt. St. James and HC drifted off the sports pages. Perhaps he considers Hockey East as a form of "entertainment", too.

Boy you nailed it. BC was helped a lot by #22 who put them on the map athletically which we sport buffs makes a school more "popular" which in turn makes it more selective. Colgate and Holy Cross have not yet figured that out and hence BC and G'town have passed them both by in the rankings.

[Sader87]

Boy you nailed it. BC was helped a lot by #22 who put them on the map athletically which we sport buffs makes a school more "popular" which in turn makes it more selective. Colgate and Holy Cross have not yet figured that out and hence BC and G'town have passed them both by in the rankings.

Some would argue that Boston and DC might have had something to do with that too....vis a vis Worcester and Hamilton, NY anyway.

[carney2]

I guess that this means that Lafayette is already tarnishing the Patriot League's academic reputation.

More like the ATHLETIC reputation. To find Lafayette athletics these days one has to dig through the bottom of the toilet and get pretty far down into the drain.

[Franks Tanks]

Some would argue that Boston and DC might have had something to do with that too....vis a vis Worcester and Hamilton, NY anyway.

I tend to agree. I think the major factors include...

1- Small Liberal Arts colleges are not hot right now.

2- Many young people desire to attend school in a major city. Virtually every decent school in Boston, NYC, D.C, and Philly has increased their academic profile greatly over the last generation or so. Many schools without big time sports (Fordham, Drexel, Northeastern) have been the beneficiary of a desirable location, and recieve a ton of applicants.

3- Visibility from big time sports.

[Go...gate]

While before my time, there are those who remember when Notre Dame and Holy Cross were considered the top two Catholic colleges in the US, with Fordham third. Boston College was a more of a commuter school then, while Georgetown and St. Joe's were considered regional schools.

But how things have changed. 40 years ago, Rev. J. Donald Monan, S.J. kept BC out of bankruptcy court and built a national university with a $1 billion endowment and a Top 40 ranking, while Rev. John Brooks S.J. chose to "stand pat" at Mt. St. James and HC drifted off the sports pages. Perhaps he considers Hockey East as a form of "entertainment", too.

Yes, indeed. Like Georgetown, Saint Joe's profile is now much higher, as well.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Not impossible, but improbable in today's world....plus they're BC.

By the by, we've won national titles in both basketball and baseball....just sayin'.


And Lafayette has won national titles in football and women's lacrosse. Lehigh has won national titles in wrestling and men's lacrosse. So the Patriot League sucks somewhat less than is commonly reported . . . at least by tradition.

[Pard4Life]

And Lafayette has won national titles in football and women's lacrosse. Lehigh has won national titles in wrestling and men's lacrosse. So the Patriot League sucks somewhat less than is commonly reported . . . at least by tradition.

Add that Bucknell won the first Orange Bowl and Fordham won the Sugar and Cotton Bowls.