Boston University joins Patriot League

[Pard4Life]

It seems like the reaction to BU's joining the PL is disappointment and/or indifference... is this because it's not a football member? So who would excite you if they joined the PL? What's at the top of the PL wish list??

Let's put it this way... would you prefer Boston University, a good academic school sans football but strong sports program, or VMI, questionable academic profile but football (and questionable at that), or even Marist?

I can't help but say, based on posts over the months and years, that it is: 1) William & Mary 2) Richmond 3) Villanova (football only)

In LFN land, it's UNH and Maine...

[Pard4Life]

More like the ATHLETIC reputation. To find Lafayette athletics these days one has to dig through the bottom of the toilet and get pretty far down into the drain.

You can read about some of it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lafayette_Leopards_football

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Could Fordham return? Do the folks on Rose Hill think that just one day that they will crack that A-10 puzzle and soar?

I would like to think something is going to happen that has to include football. With now four of nine all-sport members not participating in the FCS football league, another non-football member would be a ridiculous add without a substantial shoring up of the newly scholarship fb program.

[TheValleyRaider]

It seems like the reaction to BU's joining the PL is disappointment and/or indifference... is this because it's not a football member? So who would excite you if they joined the PL? What's at the top of the PL wish list??

Well, this is a football board, so a non-football add isn't going to get people quite as excited

Also, the all-sports part of the conference seems pretty stable for the time-being. Football, with 2 affiliate members, 3 all sport members not in the League, and just having gone through a rough patch involving scholarships (which may not be over yet, depending on how Georgetown goes forward) is far more in need of additional member(s) for some degree of stability

That all being said, football options are limited at best. Perhaps BU is the first move to shore up the conference before getting someone else to join, but who that might be I cannot even begin to guess. That's mindless speculation on my part anyway

[MplsBison]

I tend to agree. I think the major factors include...

1- Small Liberal Arts colleges are not hot right now.

2- Many young people desire to attend school in a major city. Virtually every decent school in Boston, NYC, D.C, and Philly has increased their academic profile greatly over the last generation or so. Many schools without big time sports (Fordham, Drexel, Northeastern) have been the beneficiary of a desirable location, and recieve a ton of applicants.

3- Visibility from big time sports.

Were small liberal arts colleges in rural settings ever hot?

I don't know, I just can't ever see myself wanting to go out to the country side, several hours from civilization, to go to a school with an enrollment smaller than my high school.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Were small liberal arts colleges in rural settings ever hot?

I don't know, I just can't ever see myself wanting to go out to the country side, several hours from civilization, to go to a school with an enrollment smaller than my high school.

But the town of Fargo - how different!

[Go...gate]

And Lafayette has won national titles in football and women's lacrosse. Lehigh has won national titles in wrestling and men's lacrosse. So the Patriot League sucks somewhat less than is commonly reported . . . at least by tradition.

Well, if we're going to say that, Colgate was voted the 1932 National Champion in one poll (Parke-Davis).

[DFW HOYA]

Also, the all-sports part of the conference seems pretty stable for the time-being. Football, with 2 affiliate members, 3 all sport members not in the League, and just having gone through a rough patch involving scholarships (which may not be over yet, depending on how Georgetown goes forward) is far more in need of additional member(s) for some degree of stability

1. I possess no inside information on the matter but do not expect Georgetown to change from its current position.

2. Another point of possible instability is the athletic director's search at Fordham. Frank McLaughlin was a loyal PL supporter on Rose Hill for many years. The next AD may be as (or more) favorable about the PL, or he may have other ideas entirely about where Fordham needs to be positioned. The rapid rise of Stony Brook could have a subtle effect on how Fordham wants to move within that market going forward.

[PAllen]

It seems like the reaction to BU's joining the PL is disappointment and/or indifference... is this because it's not a football member? So who would excite you if they joined the PL? What's at the top of the PL wish list??

Let's put it this way... would you prefer Boston University, a good academic school sans football but strong sports program, or VMI, questionable academic profile but football (and questionable at that), or even Marist?

I can't help but say, based on posts over the months and years, that it is: 1) William & Mary 2) Richmond 3) Villanova (football only)

In LFN land, it's UNH and Maine...

Not a FB member hurts. I see BU as another American, which I have never been that fond of. I think I would rather see VMI than BU. Other than W&M, Richmond, or Villanova, I would add Rochester, Rensellear, and Hopkins if they showed a desire to move up (and yes, I know that would be a long process). I guess I was just primed for a big FB related move based on the scholarship announcement. I wasn't expecting the scholarships to be an appeasement to the FB playing members allowing the league to go after another non-FB playing school, which is what I am beginning to believe may have been the case.

[MplsBison]

But the town of Fargo - how different!

Non-sequitor

[Go...gate]

Somewhat of a digression, but I can't help thinking of Dan Allen, who, if I recall correctly, guided BU to its last I-AA playoff appearance and then did an inspiring job as Head Coach at HC while having a terminal illness. Both schools were blessed to have him. I bet he would get a kick out of this. God rest his soul.

[TheValleyRaider]

1. I possess no inside information on the matter but do not expect Georgetown to change from its current position.

2. Another point of possible instability is the athletic director's search at Fordham. Frank McLaughlin was a loyal PL supporter on Rose Hill for many years. The next AD may be as (or more) favorable about the PL, or he may have other ideas entirely about where Fordham needs to be positioned. The rapid rise of Stony Brook could have a subtle effect on how Fordham wants to move within that market going forward.

I certainly did not expect Georgetown to suddenly add scholarships, but their status as the only non-scholarship program in the League does invite the possibility of some instability in the future. Not that the Hoyas are looking for a way out, but if an enticing opportunity presents itself...

I did neglect to mention Fordham, always a flight risk, though who yet knows what the Rams are thinking or what possibilities are out there for any of us

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Were small liberal arts colleges in rural settings ever hot?

I don't know, I just can't ever see myself wanting to go out to the country side, several hours from civilization, to go to a school with an enrollment smaller than my high school.

I live in the West, where I do mount a 7 hour drive to see friends in Tucson or Denver. Bucknell, in bucolic central Pennsylvania, is 2.5 to 3 hours from NYC, Philly, Baltimore and DC, all shorter than the drive from Fargo to the Twin Cities (or Winnipeg.) Colgate is 4+ hours from NYC, Philly or Toronto, but much closer to Syracuse, Rochester, Albany and Buffalo. Between Virginia and New England there is a lot more going on, even off the I-95 corridor. Your concerns for potentially hayseed environs of Lewisburg and Hamilton is touching, but overblown. I suspect that the despair for Norwegian bachelor wheat farmers is similarly misplaced.

[carney2]

You can read about some of it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lafayette_Leopards_football

Ah, the good olde days.

[carney2]

It seems like the reaction to BU's joining the PL is disappointment and/or indifference... is this because it's not a football member? So who would excite you if they joined the PL? What's at the top of the PL wish list??

Let's put it this way... would you prefer Boston University, a good academic school sans football but strong sports program, or VMI, questionable academic profile but football (and questionable at that), or even Marist?

I can't help but say, based on posts over the months and years, that it is: 1) William & Mary 2) Richmond 3) Villanova (football only)

In LFN land, it's UNH and Maine...

"Disappointment" is probably overstating things, but "indifference" may be more to the point. I'm sure that Boston University will be a solid citizen and a good addition, but they do not address the football situation. Basketball and the Olympic sports aren't what's broken - or potentially breaking - in the Patriot League. Let's face it, the League is first and foremost about football. We currently have 7 football playing members, and two of them are "associates" who, logic tells us, are constantly peeking (Fordham), or should be peeking (Georgetown), to see what is on the other side of the exit door. If there is potential instability in the Patriot League, it's in football. This is what needs fixed. This is where the League's attention should be.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

"Disappointment" is probably overstating things, but "indifference" may be more to the point. I'm sure that Boston University will be a solid citizen and a good addition, but they do not address the football situation. Basketball and the Olympic sports aren't what's broken - or potentially breaking - in the Patriot League. Let's face it, the League is first and foremost about football. We currently have 7 football playing members, and two of them are "associates" who, logic tells us, are constantly peeking (Fordham), or should be peeking (Georgetown), to see what is on the other side of the exit door. If there is potential instability in the Patriot League, it's in football. This is what needs fixed. This is where the League's attention should be.

Here's the deal, though: overall expansion, football expansion, and the overall collegiate landscape are not unrelated. The fact that they don't have football might be a bit disappointing - and I maintain they should have football - but expansion shouldn't be about just one sport, it should be about the whole enchilada. Indeed, I think ODU is going to deeply regret their move to C-USA for this reason. They are basically moving for one thing - FBS football - and pretty much are throwing everything else under the bus.

Fundamentally, though, in a world where some conferences are losing members, the PL is gaining them. And they're gaining a citizen that seems to essentially embody what the league is about in all sports in terms of academics. We forget how few of these schools are out there. Remember the uproar when Marist was even floated as a possibility?

Contrary to what people have told me, I believe that the PL has to be in line to line up a 10th member somewhere, and that member must have football. It could be Fordham in all sports, though I have a hard time believing that. Personally? I'm looking more and more at Monmouth as a possibility.

[DFW HOYA]

ODU's move to C-USA is probably a better long term move than one might think. This move does what JMU or Liberty or even W&M couldn't do--establish a third major college program in Virginia and create a recruiting area in the Tidewater where ODU could get real good, real quick. It's got the potential to get to an East Carolina or Marshall-like fan base in football while maintaining a really good basketball tradition, and is situated with similar second tier state institutions that form the eastern half of the new C-USA. As far as basketball goes, ODU could be in the top tier of C-USA from the outset.

The real question mark is Charlotte. They're jumping into I-A football without a net.

[aceinthehole]

Contrary to what people have told me, I believe that the PL has to be in line to line up a 10th member somewhere, and that member must have football. It could be Fordham in all sports, though I have a hard time believing that. Personally? I'm looking more and more at Monmouth as a possibility.

I have no doubt that Monmouth would love to join the PL, but will their academics hold up that invite from ever coming? Athletically, the PL seems to have no problem scheduling MU.

Football
2012 – at Lehigh
2011 – vs. Lehigh, vs. Colgate
2010 – at Colgate
2009 – at Colgate

Basketball
2011-12: at Navy, at Lafayette
2010-11: vs. Lehigh
2009-10: at Lehigh
2008-09: vs. Colgate, vs. Lehigh
2007-08: at Colgate, at Lehigh

[DFW HOYA]

I have no doubt that Monmouth would love to join the PL, but will their academics hold up that invite from ever coming?

How would the PL presidents feel about a school which became a four year college in 1956? The "not old enough" argument could apply against Bryant as well.

[LUHawker]

Fundamentally, though, in a world where some conferences are losing members, the PL is gaining them. And they're gaining a citizen that seems to essentially embody what the league is about in all sports in terms of academics. We forget how few of these schools are out there. Remember the uproar when Marist was even floated as a possibility?

Contrary to what people have told me, I believe that the PL has to be in line to line up a 10th member somewhere, and that member must have football. It could be Fordham in all sports, though I have a hard time believing that. Personally? I'm looking more and more at Monmouth as a possibility.

LFN, I agree with your points about the PL gaining a member and one that is willing to live by the PL's rules - no easy get. It also makes sense to me that the PL is likely lining up a 10th member.

However, I beg you not to raise Monmouth as that 10th member. Not only do I not think they are at all a fit academically, but they bring nothing to the table in sports. Please, please, please, stop the madness with your talk of Monmouth, Marist, Duquense, Bryant, Maine, New Hampshire, etc.

I along with some others here have argued for continued selectivity and to wait for the right candidate. I think that approach has been rewarded with BU. Is it a perfect match? No, but pretty good and certainly better than any of the names that you bandee about.

No Monmouth.

Thank you.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

However, I beg you not to raise Monmouth as that 10th member. Not only do I not think they are at all a fit academically, but they bring nothing to the table in sports. Please, please, please, stop the madness with your talk of Monmouth, Marist, Duquense, Bryant, Maine, New Hampshire, etc.

So let's recap: you're saying, yes to adding a 10th member, but no to anyone who might actually accept before George P. Bush wins the Republican nomination?

Don't get me wrong: unlike some folks, I think that BU is a fantastic add for the PL. So in that area, we're in 100% agreement. But the rigidity against other schools that might offer anything athletically boggles me. You don't think adding Monmouth would shore up football - which, as carney himself has said as well, is the biggest issue still in front of the League right now?

Is Monmouth a perfect fit academically? No. But to you, anything short of Villanova leaving the Big East or William & Mary leaving the CAA isn't good enough.

[MplsBison]

I certainly did not expect Georgetown to suddenly add scholarships, but their status as the only non-scholarship program in the League does invite the possibility of some instability in the future. Not that the Hoyas are looking for a way out, but if an enticing opportunity presents itself...

I did neglect to mention Fordham, always a flight risk, though who yet knows what the Rams are thinking or what possibilities are out there for any of us

They're not non-scholarship entirely.

As I understand, the NCAA classifies Georgetown's football program as providing something like 20 scholarship equivalencies of aid that are in some way qualified as above and beyond normal, standard institutional aid (otherwise they would be at zero, like Pioneer League schools).

[MplsBison]

I live in the West, where I do mount a 7 hour drive to see friends in Tucson or Denver. Bucknell, in bucolic central Pennsylvania, is 2.5 to 3 hours from NYC, Philly, Baltimore and DC, all shorter than the drive from Fargo to the Twin Cities (or Winnipeg.) Colgate is 4+ hours from NYC, Philly or Toronto, but much closer to Syracuse, Rochester, Albany and Buffalo. Between Virginia and New England there is a lot more going on, even off the I-95 corridor. Your concerns for potentially hayseed environs of Lewisburg and Hamilton is touching, but overblown. I suspect that the despair for Norwegian bachelor wheat farmers is similarly misplaced.

Ok. Fair enough.

[LUHawker]

So let's recap: you're saying, yes to adding a 10th member, but no to anyone who might actually accept before George P. Bush wins the Republican nomination?

Don't get me wrong: unlike some folks, I think that BU is a fantastic add for the PL. So in that area, we're in 100% agreement. But the rigidity against other schools that might offer anything athletically boggles me. You don't think adding Monmouth would shore up football - which, as carney himself has said as well, is the biggest issue still in front of the League right now?

Is Monmouth a perfect fit academically? No. But to you, anything short of Villanova leaving the Big East or William & Mary leaving the CAA isn't good enough.

Of course adding Monmouth would shore up football from a numbers perspective, but that is about it. They would be competitive enough, but most years, I belive they would be in the bottom half of the league.

Monmouth isn't even close to a perfect fit academically. I reject your comment that anything short of VU or W&M isn't good enough for me. Evidence: I just agreed with you earlier that I think BU is a good fit. Would I like W&M? Richmond? Both yes. Are they coming to the PL? Not high probability. We also didn't suspect BU was coming either, though. Basically, the PL has been patient in its member search (who know whether that was the PL's choice or not) and was able to add a really nice fit.

My preferred approach is to expand the league with appropriate schools vs. your take-anyone approach. It is plainly clear to anyone following your blogging and postings that you do not place high emphasis on the academic caliber of schools for consideration to the PL. I think acadmic caliber and reputation is near paramount. I argue that the majority of PL alums would fall in my camp as well. Most importantly, apparently so do the Presidents of the league schools.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Let's agree on one thing: the PL appears extremely well placed at the moment with the addition of BU. If AE falls apart, they could add members (along with the NEC). If the CAA falls apart, they could add members (along with AE). Even if both the CAA and AE survive by raiding the NEC, they could add members. And yet, they could decide not to take anyone, either. Staying at nine schools is not ideal for scheduling, but it could certainly work.

The perception is that the full-time PL members' presidents are a tight club and would not be easily swayed by, say, a CAA all-sports invite. That gives the PL a luxury that few other leagues have right now. My only question is how real that perception is. There are definite philosophical differences between the members in certain areas.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The perception is that the full-time PL members' presidents are a tight club and would not be easily swayed by, say, a CAA all-sports invite.

I don't think and present PL member would invite or consider a CAA invite, do you? Other than in football, where's the advantage? And with regard to football, the scholarship decision was (in part) intended to level that playing field. Which (if any) present PL member isn't going to give the scholarships a chance to take hold? Lehigh? Holy Cross?

Boston U. pursued the Patriot League. Discussions have been ongoing for the past five years. The Terriers even added lacrosse - apparently to sweeten the deal. They wanted in. If Boston U. wanted in the CAA and had made a similar five year effort, even to the point of adding a sport, don't you think they'd be in the CAA right now?

[MplsBison]

There is no advantage in non-football, certainly. The PL champion gets the same one automatic bid to the NCAA post season tournaments and no at-larges that the CAA gets.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't think and present PL member would invite or consider a CAA invite, do you? Other than in football, where's the advantage? And with regard to football, the scholarship decision was (in part) intended to level that playing field. Which (if any) present PL member isn't going to give the scholarships a chance to take hold? Lehigh? Holy Cross?

Boston U. pursued the Patriot League. Discussions have been ongoing for the past five years. The Terriers even added lacrosse - apparently to sweeten the deal. They wanted in. If Boston U. wanted in the CAA and had made a similar five year effort, even to the point of adding a sport, don't you think they'd be in the CAA right now?

First, I don't think BU added men's lacrosse in order to impress the PL. I think they have other reasons to start the sport that are immaterial to their conference ambitions.

Second, while I think there was an "open invite" with BoU to the PL years ago, this baby came together in the past few months at the speed of other realignment moves - in other words, at blazing speed. This was decidedly not a five-year effort to impress the PL - this was just as the other moves we've all heard about, either a move to get a foothold in a top-level sport (in this case, lacrosse), or a look beneath their feet seeing the shifting sands in America East and not wanting to be left holding the bag.

[LUHawker]

Let's agree on one thing: the PL appears extremely well placed at the moment with the addition of BU. If AE falls apart, they could add members (along with the NEC). If the CAA falls apart, they could add members (along with AE). Even if both the CAA and AE survive by raiding the NEC, they could add members. And yet, they could decide not to take anyone, either. Staying at nine schools is not ideal for scheduling, but it could certainly work.

The perception is that the full-time PL members' presidents are a tight club and would not be easily swayed by, say, a CAA all-sports invite. That gives the PL a luxury that few other leagues have right now. My only question is how real that perception is. There are definite philosophical differences between the members in certain areas.

I can close ranks on that. xthumbsupx

[carney2]

There is some talk on the Boston University board of this move being temporary, with the Bostonians focused on bigger fish to fry. So now, at least some people are looking at the Patriot League as some sort of parking lot. I know that this is fan-talk and not from the administration, but it is disturbing nonetheless.

[aceinthehole]

There is some talk on the Boston University board of this move being temporary, with the Bostonians focused on bigger fish to fry. So now, at least some people are looking at the Patriot League as some sort of parking lot. I know that this is fan-talk and not from the administration, but it is disturbing nonetheless.

But is this too suprising? Boston U. "looks" at lot more like George Washington and Drexel than it does Colgate or Holy Cross. That's probably how the sports fans see it.

[carney2]

But is this too suprising? Boston U. "looks" at lot more like George Washington and Drexel than it does Colgate or Holy Cross. That's probably how the sports fans see it.

Then Bogie's opinion that Boston University is a bad fit for the Patriot League would be true?

[DFW HOYA]

In other news, PL teams fared well, as expected, in the NCAA APR rankings:

Lafayette 986
Fordham 983
Georgetown 982
Colgate 980
Holy Cross 977
Lehigh 973
Bucknell 969

Around the horn of less likely PL expansion targets:

New Hampshire 981
Maine 977
William & Mary 976
Monmouth 967
Villanova 966
VMI 952

[ccd494]

But is this too suprising? Boston U. "looks" at lot more like George Washington and Drexel than it does Colgate or Holy Cross. That's probably how the sports fans see it.

Golllly are you lucky there aren't any Terriers around here to see you compare their fine institution to GW or Drexel.

BU has three peer institutions in its own mind: BC, Harvard and MIT.

[RichH2]

What was BoU's? Saw Andy wondering on twitter what's next?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I understand not wanting to add Monmouth. MU simply don't fit the Patriot League's branding model imo.

However, i don't understand those againt UNH and Maine. They could strengthen the leagues profile by giving it two reasonably "elite" public institutions that have historical value in academia. Their presence in New England screams Patriot League.

[Go...gate]

I have no doubt that Monmouth would love to join the PL, but will their academics hold up that invite from ever coming? Athletically, the PL seems to have no problem scheduling MU.

Football
2012 – at Lehigh
2011 – vs. Lehigh, vs. Colgate
2010 – at Colgate
2009 – at Colgate

Basketball
2011-12: at Navy, at Lafayette
2010-11: vs. Lehigh
2009-10: at Lehigh
2008-09: vs. Colgate, vs. Lehigh
2007-08: at Colgate, at Lehigh

Princeton also plays Monmouth yearly in BB and I understand has discussed at least one future game in football.

[aceinthehole]

Then Bogie's opinion that Boston University is a bad fit for the Patriot League would be true?

I don't think it's good or bad fit, but I'm not a PL fan anyway. I think it was a surprise for almost everyone, but in the end I think it can be mutually beneficial to both parties.

The PL stability and academics bring a lot to BU, and likewise the BU name and location brings the PL some additional exposure.

Athletically BU brings quality Olympic sports, highlighted by Men's hoops and MLax - but they don't have football (or baseball).

In the end this is the dilemma PL Presidents and fans must face. There is no "ideal" PL candidate out there willing to join, so you have to find the the best match you can.

I'll let PL and BU fans decide if this is a good fit.

[Go...gate]

I don't think and present PL member would invite or consider a CAA invite, do you? Other than in football, where's the advantage? And with regard to football, the scholarship decision was (in part) intended to level that playing field. Which (if any) present PL member isn't going to give the scholarships a chance to take hold? Lehigh? Holy Cross?

Boston U. pursued the Patriot League. Discussions have been ongoing for the past five years. The Terriers even added lacrosse - apparently to sweeten the deal. They wanted in. If Boston U. wanted in the CAA and had made a similar five year effort, even to the point of adding a sport, don't you think they'd be in the CAA right now?

To me, that is the key. I want the conference to have a membership that is strong academically, wants to be part of the PL and will be adherent to its philosophies.

[ccd494]

However, i don't understand those againt UNH and Maine. They could strengthen the leagues profile by giving it two reasonably "elite" public institutions that have historical value in academia. Their presence in New England screams Patriot League.

I'm telling you as a Maine alum we don't fit the academic profile. Rolling admissions, 78% admitted, middling SAT requirements, mostly in state kids.

Look, I'm proud of my University, and it's like any other state school education- it is what you make of it (I got into a top 20 grad program, but my freshman year roommate attended about 3 classes and still graduated on time). But if you think the president of Lehigh wants to be associated with a school like Maine, I don't know what to tell you.

[crusader11]

Fordham is, without question, the best school out there that hopefully will join the PL (again).

I wouldn't mind seeing Fairfield and W&M join at some point, too.

This would be a pretty cute league:

North Division

Holy Cross
Boston University
Fairfield
Fordham
Colgate
Army

South Division

Bucknell
Lehigh
Lafayette
Navy
American
William & Mary

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Question for the hockey fans out there: Is there a hope that Army, HC and Colgate hockey can benefit from association with BoU? I'm not saying that they will become members of Hockey East or anything, but I was wondering if BoU schedules HC and/or Colgate on any sort of regular basis.

[van]

Fordham in all sports very desirable, Nova for football on my wish list.

[Sader87]

Believe it or not HC beat BU in hockey last year....not certain, but fairly sure it was our first victory over them. Not sure if Colgate or Army play BU regularly in hockey.

http://goholycross.com/sports/m-hockey/2011-12/releases/20111022fza1x3

[JoltinJoe]

I certainly did not expect Georgetown to suddenly add scholarships, but their status as the only non-scholarship program in the League does invite the possibility of some instability in the future. Not that the Hoyas are looking for a way out, but if an enticing opportunity presents itself...

I did neglect to mention Fordham, always a flight risk, though who yet knows what the Rams are thinking or what possibilities are out there for any of us

Fordham isn't moving anywhere in any sport. It wants to stay in the PL for football; and the A10 for all sports.

Truth be told, I think Fordham would probably choose the PL for all sports, with only basketball playing the A-10, but that isn't doable.

Fordham also sponsors too many sports, but the decision to cut some costly programs would be too controversial. Cut baseball? We're the oldest baseball program in the nation, and have had 56 players go on to the majors. Cut football? We were once on one of the most popular football teams in the country. Cut track? We've had great Olympians, etc. Almost every sport at Fordham is steeped in tradition, and has its ardent supporters.

[TheValleyRaider]

Fordham isn't moving anywhere in any sport. It wants to stay in the PL for football; and the A10 for all sports.

I'll certainly defer to your knowledge on the desires of Fordham's administration, but they cannot be wholly pleased with the whole process the PL has put them through regarding scholarships. Adding them presumably makes a league like CAA Football less enticing, but if the sands keep shifting who knows who starts making phone calls

I still contend that BU's addition to the League, while nice, does not address the relative instability of a small conference with 2 associate members. If there are flight risks, it is Fordham and Georgetown


Question for the hockey fans out there: Is there a hope that Army, HC and Colgate hockey can benefit from association with BoU? I'm not saying that they will become members of Hockey East or anything, but I was wondering if BoU schedules HC and/or Colgate on any sort of regular basis.

Maybe some interaction will help, but Jackie Pahkah makes his own schedule without too much input from the adminstration. BU's got the OOC plate pretty full with the Beanpot and games against national powers to really fill up with Army or Colgate

For comparison's sake, we've played HC a grand total of 5 times, only once since 1981-82. BU used to be in the ECAC (way back when), but since the split we haven't seen them that much (last meeting in 1993-94)

Maybe it means BU back to the ECAC (you know, to get Harvard into HE) xrotatehx xlolx

[ngineer]

In reading some newsletters from alma mater, I can tell the alumni office (hence the University) is really happy about Boston U. joining the PL. While perhaps not a primary reason for pursuing BU, but a matter that does factor into the calculus, is that having BU and extending the PL footprint into Boston helps Lehigh (and I would assume a few other PL schools) connect more with their alumni. Lehigh has a lot of alumni in the Greater Boston area with tremendous turnouts when we play at Harvard in football and wrestling (not sure how the turnout is when the basketball team arrives--though, now, it probably improves due to Duke). Being able to have the alumni events at football games, etc., and being part of several thousand fans all with a common interest helps the school from a marketing/PR/development standpoint. Being able to physically connect with the Brown & White is a lot different than receiving electronic newsletters and updates. I think there is a certain psychological factor that goes into the continued relationship with alumni that cannot be overlooked.

[ccd494]

Maybe some interaction will help, but Jackie Pahkah makes his own schedule without too much input from the adminstration. BU's got the OOC plate pretty full with the Beanpot and games against national powers to really fill up with Army or Colgate

For comparison's sake, we've played HC a grand total of 5 times, only once since 1981-82. BU used to be in the ECAC (way back when), but since the split we haven't seen them that much (last meeting in 1993-94)

Maybe it means BU back to the ECAC (you know, to get Harvard into HE) xrotatehx xlolx

1.) Good one on the Harvard comment.

2.) You're right that BU doesn't have a ton of non conference games free. They lose two every year to the Beanpot, and usually play Harvard once. BU plays Cornell a lot, in MSG last year. They and BC will usually team up and bring in two western powers (or go west) and play 1 each (like Friday Denver @ BU, Colorado College @ BC, then switch). There's no point in playing Army. Maybe Colgate gets a game or two that normally would go to an RPI or St. Lawrence, but that would be about it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So it looks like there is very little chance for extra hockey interaction, unless Hockey East blows apart or something. To say that's unlikely is understating things: they're trying to figure out how to shoehorn Notre Dame in the conference.

[TheValleyRaider]

1.) Good one on the Harvard comment.

2.) You're right that BU doesn't have a ton of non conference games free. They lose two every year to the Beanpot, and usually play Harvard once. BU plays Cornell a lot, in MSG last year. They and BC will usually team up and bring in two western powers (or go west) and play 1 each (like Friday Denver @ BU, Colorado College @ BC, then switch). There's no point in playing Army. Maybe Colgate gets a game or two that normally would go to an RPI or St. Lawrence, but that would be about it.

They did play HC last year, and I could see Army filling that kind of role, but rarely more than 1 of those per season. They'll have even fewer OOC games left now with Notre Dame joining HE

Hockey just exists in a different world in a number of ways. It's not that it couldn't happen, but interaction in other sports/conferences means very little in this context. HC couldn't even get into the ECAC a few years back (though as much through their own decisions as the ability of anyone else to get them in/keep them out)

[Dane96]

So it looks like there is very little chance for extra hockey interaction, unless Hockey East blows apart or something. To say that's unlikely is understating things: they're trying to figure out how to shoehorn Notre Dame in the conference.

With the BU/Pahkah Mafia running the Hockey East, there is no way that league is blowing up. BU will sell its own All-Sport conference down the river to keep their Head of the Five Families status.

Oh wait, they already did that....

[aceinthehole]

With the BU/Pahkah Mafia running the Hockey East, there is no way that league is blowing up. BU will sell its own All-Sport conference down the river to keep their Head of the Five Families status.

Oh wait, they already did that....

Hockey East is adding UConn to go to 12-members.

http://www.courant.com/sports/hockey/hc-uconn-hockey-east-0621-20120620,0,1119772.story

[Sader87]

UConn to join Hockey East....2 (I think, if not more) less games BU will play outside of HE.http://articles.courant.com/2012-06-20/sports/hc-uconn-hockey-east-0621-20120620_1_men-hockey-program-big-east-invitation-uconn-athletic-director



HC explored (and maybe even applied, not sure, not really a puckster) joining the HE this year but I think it was basically financially unfeasible (or that was the excuse offered).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Superconferences are alive and well - in hockey, anyway.

[NHwildEcat]

UConn to join Hockey East....2 (I think, if not more) less games BU will play outside of HE.http://articles.courant.com/2012-06-20/sports/hc-uconn-hockey-east-0621-20120620_1_men-hockey-program-big-east-invitation-uconn-athletic-director



HC explored (and maybe even applied, not sure, not really a puckster) joining the HE this year but I think it was basically financially unfeasible (or that was the excuse offered).

I would have like HC...don't they play at the DCU? Or is that just too obvious of a place for them to play? If they played there it would be a great arena for HE. Instead it looks like it will be the XL Energy Center or whatever in Hartford for UConn.

[NHwildEcat]

Superconferences are alive and well - in hockey, anyway.

I wouldn't call it a super conference...12 teams isn't all the large...def. a deep conference.

[NHwildEcat]

UConn to join Hockey East....2 (I think, if not more) less games BU will play outside of HE.http://articles.courant.com/2012-06-20/sports/hc-uconn-hockey-east-0621-20120620_1_men-hockey-program-big-east-invitation-uconn-athletic-director



HC explored (and maybe even applied, not sure, not really a puckster) joining the HE this year but I think it was basically financially unfeasible (or that was the excuse offered).

Also, not necessarily 2 less games outside of HE for BU. Right now everyone plays each other 3 times...when Notre Dame comes on board it will only be 2 games a season...so really BU is still going to have a few extra OOC games to schedule.

[Dane96]

Ummmm...with about what, 60 ice-hockey schools..12 teams are a superconference.

[Bogus Megapardus]

What would have to happen for there to be PL-sponsored Hockey? We now have Holy Cross, Army, Colgate and BosU. Lehigh, Navy, Lafayette and Bucknell have strong, successful club teams. Too costly for the little guys?

[NHwildEcat]

Ummmm...with about what, 60 ice-hockey schools..12 teams are a superconference.

Yeah...that is true. When you look at it like that. But then you have the Big Ten with only 6 members...that is just too small of a conference. HE got it right!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What would have to happen for there to be PL-sponsored Hockey? We now have Holy Cross, Army, Colgate and BosU. Lehigh, Navy, Lafayette and Bucknell have strong, successful club teams. Too costly for the little guys?

Repealing of Title IX would be a good start, i.e. it's not going to happen.

[TheValleyRaider]

HC explored (and maybe even applied, not sure, not really a puckster) joining the HE this year but I think it was basically financially unfeasible (or that was the excuse offered).

HC may have looked into it, but if they weren't prepared to make the commitment necessary for the ECAC years back, then Hockey East would be a step way too far, I think


What would have to happen for there to be PL-sponsored Hockey? We now have Holy Cross, Army, Colgate and BosU. Lehigh, Navy, Lafayette and Bucknell have strong, successful club teams. Too costly for the little guys?

Well, those other schools would first have to step up and add D-I teams (Navy is always considered a possibility, but that's it from my knowledge). Club teams are all fine and good, but the step from club to Division I is a big leap

Then, you'd have to find some way to divest Colgate from its traditional relationships in the ECAC. We rather like being in a conference with the Ivies, plus schools like Clarkson and RPI

And that's all without pulling BU away from Hockey East (xlolx xlolx xlolx). Unless the League has some bylaw about sponsoring a sport with X number of members (a la the Big 10), then it seems unlikely at best.

I welcome the prospect of other PL schools adding hockey (or most schools, really), but that would be the first in a series of very difficult steps to make it happen

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Bucknell would likely add back men's rowing as a varsity sport before adding hockey. UConn will play hockey at the XLCenter. As a CT native, I find it ironic that UConn men's and women's hockey will now play in a destination conference and fb has back seated.

[dgtw]

Yeah...that is true. When you look at it like that. But then you have the Big Ten with only 6 members...that is just too small of a conference. HE got it right!

Just my 1/50 of a dollar, but I think its cool the Big Ten sponsors hockey. I think it helps build the sport if you have real conference rivalries.

[NHwildEcat]

Just my 1/50 of a dollar, but I think its cool the Big Ten sponsors hockey. I think it helps build the sport if you have real conference rivalries.

The Big Ten conference is good, I believe that too. But what HE has done is bring together all the New England schools (and Notre Dame) and hockey is the only sport that they all stack up against each other. I love that my friends from all over New England can trash talk about one sport...

[Seawolf97]

Is it true that to have a Div-1 hockey program you first need an on campus arena seating at least 3500 ? That alone is a huge cost and long term maintenance issue. Stonybrook has a decent club team and I have been to a few games. Alot of fans pine for us to move to Div 1 varsity level but I dont see that happening for years if at all.

[Go...gate]

Fordham isn't moving anywhere in any sport. It wants to stay in the PL for football; and the A10 for all sports.

Truth be told, I think Fordham would probably choose the PL for all sports, with only basketball playing the A-10, but that isn't doable.

Fordham also sponsors too many sports, but the decision to cut some costly programs would be too controversial. Cut baseball? We're the oldest baseball program in the nation, and have had 56 players go on to the majors. Cut football? We were once on one of the most popular football teams in the country. Cut track? We've had great Olympians, etc. Almost every sport at Fordham is steeped in tradition, and has its ardent supporters.

Would still love to see this happen. Always throught Fordham an excellent fit with the PL.

Fordham baseball has always been extremely competitive. You guys are also strong in sailing, as I recall.

Fordham has always been very serious about athletics but has also maintained a challenging academic environment.

[UAalum72]

The ACHA (to which SB belongs) FAQ page says NCAA D-I hockey requires a 2,500-seat on-campus arena - but many current schools are well under that, maybe grandfathered in.

[ccd494]

Is it true that to have a Div-1 hockey program you first need an on campus arena seating at least 3500 ? That alone is a huge cost and long term maintenance issue. Stonybrook has a decent club team and I have been to a few games. Alot of fans pine for us to move to Div 1 varsity level but I dont see that happening for years if at all.

Those are the standards to join Hockey East, but the arena does not need to be on campus (UConn is off campus, I think Lowell bought their arena from the city but it is not on campus proper). A few schools were grandfathered in with smaller arenas (Providence only seats 3000, Merrimack is under as well).

Many, many d-1 hockey schools are under 3500 capacity.

Also, the answer to what would happen if the PL started sponsoring hockey and tried to make BU join? BU would leave the Patriot League. BU's hockey attendance dwarfs the attendance to all other BU sports combined.

[TheValleyRaider]

Is it true that to have a Div-1 hockey program you first need an on campus arena seating at least 3500?

There are no facility requirements for D-I membership that I know about, though an arena on or near campus will help with student attendance

Expense is the biggest obstacle to adding a hockey team. Either building/maintaining your own rink or renting ice time from another one adds up quickly

[ccd494]

For PL fans, basketball forums added a Patriot League board, they had narrowed it down to just AE and A10, but with the number of BU posters there they accommodated the PL: http://www.basketballforum.com/patriot-league/

[crusader11]

Is it true that to have a Div-1 hockey program you first need an on campus arena seating at least 3500 ? That alone is a huge cost and long term maintenance issue. Stonybrook has a decent club team and I have been to a few games. Alot of fans pine for us to move to Div 1 varsity level but I dont see that happening for years if at all.

More than half of Atlantic Hockey would be disbanded if that was the case.

[ktuck911]

Are any of these schools ( Boston U , Quinnipiac, NJIT ) establishing football teams? Would love to see BU bring back football after they dropped it over a decade ago... It'd be nice to see...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Are any of these schools ( Boston U , Quinnipiac, NJIT ) establishing football teams? Would love to see BU bring back football after they dropped it over a decade ago... It'd be nice to see...

Like you, I'd love it if BoU brought back football, but it seems like it is not going to happen. NJIT had some sort of student-led organization at one time to attempt to get a team started, but I don't think it got anywhere.

As for QU:

http://www.hercampus.com/school/quinnipiac/quinnipiac-football-remain-undefeated


Is there a football team in Quinnipiac’s future? “Not as long as John Lahey and Jack McDonald are here,” McDonald said.

So it seems like it's pretty unlikely any of them would start one up.

[Bogus Megapardus]

For PL fans, basketball forums added a Patriot League board, they had narrowed it down to just AE and A10, but with the number of BU posters there they accommodated the PL: http://www.basketballforum.com/patriot-league/

Well, it looks like BosU fans will be posting on one forum, and the rest of the Patriot League on a different forum. I have wonder as well when/if BosU fans will start finding their way to the Holy Cross/Lafayette/Colgate/Bucknell/Lehigh boards. That should be interesting.

[Go...gate]

Well, it looks like BosU fans will be posting on one forum, and the rest of the Patriot League on a different forum. I have wonder as well when/if BosU fans will start finding their way to the Holy Cross/Lafayette/Colgate/Bucknell/Lehigh boards. That should be interesting.

Don't AU fans do the same?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Don't AU fans do the same?

Most American U. "fans" don't even know what conference they're in.

[Pard4Life]

BU is not in Georgetown's peer group. Peer institutions are defined where a significant group of competitive applicants cross-apply between the schools (e.g, SMU and Duke are similar schools in academic programming but there are few applicants applying to both nationally.) Georgetown's cross-apps are places like Duke, Penn, and Virginia. Very few cross apps with, for example, Cornell, because Georgetown doesn't have an engineering program. Probably more applicants nationally choosing between BC and Georgetown than BU.

I looked at the Princeton Review guide... Top schools other applicants at BU prefer are GWU, NYU, USC (?!), BC, Northeastern. I looked at Lehigh and Boston U was listed as a top preferable destination for applicants.