ND voters decide that enough is enough: UND Fighting Sioux nickname should be retired

[MplsBison]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/364024/


North Dakotans signaled Tuesday they’re ready to say goodbye to UND’s Fighting Sioux nickname, overwhelmingly favoring a ballot measure that would allow the university to drop the name.

In complete but unofficial results, the “yes” vote on Measure 4 was leading the “no” vote 67 percent to 33 percent. The “yes” votes totaled 113,165, the “no” votes 54,788.

With all 27 precincts reporting in Grand Forks County, “yes” had 5,426 votes to 2,276 for “no,” or 70.45 percent to 29.55 percent. The “Yes” vote carried by decisive margins in the state’s major counties – and carried Sioux County, home of the Standing Rock Sioux Nation, by 184 votes to 159.

“Obviously, we’re disappointed,” said Sean Johnson, Bismarck, spokesman for the group that sought the referendum on the nickname.


They made the correct choice.

And, weird as it may seem, it also shows that lakes ever powerful influence over the hearts and souls of North Dakota was not able to succeed this time.

[darell1976]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/364024/




They made the correct choice.

And, weird as it may seem, it also shows that lakes ever powerful influence over the hearts and souls of North Dakota was not able to succeed this time.

“Obviously, we’re disappointed,” said Sean Johnson, Bismarck, spokesman for the group that sought the referendum on the nickname.

Of course he is disappointed, who is going to sign his petition now to put the Sioux nickname bill in the ND Constitution. When you have 67% of the people telling you its over...it is over!!

From WDAZ's Facebook page:



Statement from UND President Robert Kelley About Vote on Measure 4

We are appreciative that voters took the time to listen and to understand the issues and the importance of allowing the University to move forward. We also understand how deeply this has affected all of us.

Tuesday's vote allows us to focus our attention on our students as we continue to build exceptional programs in all areas of the University. We appreciate the support that has been expressed for the University of North Dakota over the past several weeks, and especially for UND Athletics. It is support that will continue to be important as we build a great future for the University and for UND Athletics.

We will continue to work with the State Board of Higher Education, the North Dakota University System, and the leadership in athletics as we move forward.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

and as I have said all along. As long as you find a nickname that goes alliteratively with "suck", Bison fans will be just fine with it.

[darell1976]

and as I have said all along. As long as you find a nickname that goes alliteratively with "suck", Bison fans will be just fine with it.

Its gonna wait 3 years. Remember we have that "cooling off period" so no new name before 2015. You may refer to us as "THE" University of North Dakota.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Its gonna wait 3 years. Remember we have that "cooling off period" so no new name before 2015. You may refer to us as "THE" University of North Dakota.

"U suck!" That will have to do I guess.

[darell1976]

Cass County (Fargo):

24,143 73.60% YES
8660 26.40% NO

District 41 (Al Carlson's district in South Fargo)
YES: 2,751 75.79%
NO: 879 24.21% Sorry Al....you fail AGAIN!!

Only 1 county voted to save the name...Billings County (Medora in the SW part of the state) 150-148 for NO.

[darell1976]

"U suck!" That will have to do I guess.

Very creative since we are North Dakota U.

[TheRevSFA]

UND-ies!

[NoDak 4 Ever]

no mention of Sioux here, maybe we can work with this:

On the plains of North Dakota
Standing there for all to see,
Is an old abandoned outhouse
And they call it UND

Hail the Bison, Hail the Bison
With their tails up in the air
University, University
You can kiss what's under there!

[northernfire]

Best wishes to UND as they move forward with a new chapter in their long and historic legacy of education and service to the great state of North Dakota.

[LakesBison]

Haha, a university lost its nickname, Haha. How embarassing.

Theres already a logo ready to go according to thier shirt supplier in fargo (actually, im being honest)

[aces1180]

Haha, a university lost its nickname, Haha. How embarassing.

Theres already a logo ready to go according to thier shirt supplier in fargo (actually, im being honest)

I've said it before and I'll say it again...It's been a win-win situation for this Bison fan watching from afar. I can't imagine being one of the die-hard Fighting Sioux fans, being forced to go to the election booth and having to kill the nickname. Sucks, like always, to be them.

[Professor Chaos]

I think everyone, even those of us not directly affected by this, will be happy to see the drama put to an end no matter what the outcome. Hopefully this is the final nail in the coffin.

Forgive my skepticism but I'll believe it when I see it.

[darell1976]

Haha, a university lost its nickname, Haha. How embarassing.

Theres already a logo ready to go according to thier shirt supplier in fargo (actually, im being honest)

I thought embarassing was your basketball and volleyball team losing to a university who lost its nickname.

[McNeese72]

Somebody on our messageboard said they should change their name to the ND "Fighting Sue". Johnny Cash's song "A Boy Named Sue" could be the fight song. :)

The whole polictically correct stuff is a joke, imo. Heaven forbid someone ever gets their feelings hurt.

Doc

Note: The above is meant to be a joke. Not trying to make fun of ND.

[darell1976]

Somebody on our messageboard said they should change their name to the ND "Fighting Sue". Johnny Cash's song "A Boy Named Sue" could be the fight song. :)

The whole polictically correct stuff is a joke, imo. Heaven forbid someone ever gets their feelings hurt.

Doc

Note: The above is meant to be a joke. Not trying to make fun of ND.

UND does have a Law School, but I would think Roughriders would be among the favorite for a replacement even though Grand Forks Red River High School shares the same name.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Somebody on our messageboard said they should change their name to the ND "Fighting Sue". Johnny Cash's song "A Boy Named Sue" could be the fight song. :)

The whole polictically correct stuff is a joke, imo. Heaven forbid someone ever gets their feelings hurt.

Doc

Note: The above is meant to be a joke. Not trying to make fun of ND.


UND does have a Law School, but I would think Roughriders would be among the favorite for a replacement even though Grand Forks Red River High School shares the same name.

Oh, don't worry, that's not a new concept. Here are the hockey jerseys. :D

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/3784_575186120579_2977332_n.jpg

[TheRevSFA]

How about the ND Floods? Fitting for most springs in ND. You can have "Flood Fest" in April.

It sounds like a winner.

[Gil Dobie]

Still say Fighting Susans with some mud wrestlers for a logo/mascot.

[JSUBison]

UND does have a Law School, but I would think Roughriders would be among the favorite for a replacement even though Grand Forks Red River High School shares the same name.

Roughriders, I like. It makes the most sense, (Teddy Roosevelt, cowboys, open prairies, etc) but I don't think it will happen, partly for the reason you gave. I'm sure it will be opened up to feedback. Since the whole of North Dakota had a voice in eliminating the name, I think the entire state of North Dakota should get to pick a new one. I hope the talk a few years ago about UND adopting the "Firetrucks" nickname will pick up even more support. Time to start the grassroots effort and make it happen. As an alum of the University of North Dakota system, I intend on making my voice heard to the administration. xangelx

[BisonHype!]

Just go with UND for now.

[MplsBison]

Its gonna wait 3 years. Remember we have that "cooling off period" so no new name before 2015. You may refer to us as "THE" University of North Dakota.

Faaaaaarrrrr across the plains of Fargo, there for all to seeeeeee
Stands and ollllllld abandoned outhouse called THE U-nah-versity!


Works for the U of M too.

[darell1976]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/ncaa/06/12/north.dakota.nickname.ap/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a9


North Dakota voters overwhelmingly decided Tuesday to let the state's flagship university dump a controversial Fighting Sioux nickname that sparked threats of NCAA sanctions, ending - at least temporarily - a dispute simmering for decades that divided sports fans, alumni and even tribes.

:D

[NoDak 4 Ever]

UND does have a Law School, but I would think Roughriders would be among the favorite for a replacement even though Grand Forks Red River High School shares the same name.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/ncaa/06/12/north.dakota.nickname.ap/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a9



:D

Just keep thinking that buddy. All those numbers in your sig? NDSU has more, lots more.

[MplsBison]

Meh, I don't even care any more. Let UND be the state flagship, the NDUS flagship, etc.

NDSU will just be the only Division I, national FCS champion university in North Dakota.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Meh, I don't even care any more. Let UND be the state flagship, the NDUS flagship, etc.

NDSU will just be the only Division I, national FCS champion university in North Dakota.

My thoughts exactly. Sure hasn't been run like a flagship university recently.

[darell1976]

Meh, I don't even care any more. Let UND be the state flagship, the NDUS flagship, etc.

NDSU will just be the only 2011 Division I, national FCS champion university in North Dakota .

FIFY!!

[darell1976]

My thoughts exactly. Sure hasn't been run like a flagship university recently.

Politically-no it hasn't....athletically-yes it has.

[bojeta]

Best wishes to UND as they move forward with a new chapter in their long and historic legacy of education and service to the great state of North Dakota.

+1

[TheBisonator]

I'm putting my money down for "Roughriders" for 2015. 3-1 odds. Just seems to be the most natural North Dakota-related nickname.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I'm putting my money down for "Roughriders" for 2015. 3-1 odds. Just seems to be the most natural North Dakota-related nickname.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!!!!!

http://www.totalaccessgroup.com/thumbnail.asp?file=assets/images/lf-r-r-4541%281%29.jpg&maxx=300&maxy=0

[ExpandSpanos]

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6228/6326422858_0879ed1534.jpg

[Screamin_Eagle174]

If they go with Roughriders, they absolutely MUST hire Lakes as their mascot:

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Film/Pix/pictures/2009/7/9/1247146651558/Sacha-Baron-Cohen-as-Brun-003.jpg

[mmiller_34]

Behold: The University of North Dakota Angry Elfs

http://www.sportressofblogitude.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/fighting-sioux-fan.png

[Drblankstare]

Behold: The University of North Dakota Angry Elfs

http://www.sportressofblogitude.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/fighting-sioux-fan.png

+1

[344Johnson]

Politically-no it hasn't....athletically-yes it has.

I didn't know most flagships had 1/9th of the football titles of the "lesser" school. Fewer overall titles as well. ;)

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I didn't know most flagships had 1/9th of the football titles of the "lesser" school. Fewer overall titles as well. ;)

I had no idea that was the sole basis for flagship status. Thanks.

[darell1976]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/238757/group/homepage/

It's official: UND retires Fighting Sioux nickname
http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/238757/group/homepage/


The state Board of Higher Education has directed the University of North Dakota to retire its Fighting Sioux nickname.

So gone will be NCAA sanctions, UND will be known as University of North Dakota with the interlocking ND as the logo, and those wondering about the Ralph Engelstad Arena and its 2000+ logos...UND AD Brian Faison said UND who rents the REA (REA is privately owned and UND rents it for one dollar), is working with the REA, NCAA and the ND Attorney General in deciding what logos have to go. According to the 2007 settlement historical logos (IMO its the ones that would be very expensive to remove) can stay but some like on doors, and seats have to be replaced.

UND will have a new name in 2015 according to the "cooling off period" in the state law.

[MplsBison]

I saw someone driving this morning with a bumper sticker for UND Alumni with the interlocking ND symbol.

Upgraded already! The Alumni Foundation would do well to mail one to every living alumni of the school, if they haven't already.

[darell1976]

I saw someone driving this morning with a bumper sticker for UND Alumni with the interlocking ND symbol.

Upgraded already! The Alumni Foundation would do well to mail one to every living alumni of the school, if they haven't already.

UND started going away from the logo back at the end of last year before the petition had enough signatures to put it to a state vote. Remember this is the third retirement for the UND name since November 30, 2010. Only now its backed by the voters of ND.

[LakesBison]

Did you GET YOURS ALREADY STAR2CITY?? your obviously a UND FAN!


I saw someone driving this morning with a bumper sticker for UND Alumni with the interlocking ND symbol.

Upgraded already! The Alumni Foundation would do well to mail one to every living alumni of the school, if they haven't already.

[344Johnson]

I had no idea that was the sole basis for flagship status. Thanks.

He mentioned them being the athletic flagship.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

He mentioned them being the athletic flagship.

He said it was being run like a flagship as far as athletics. Is that incorrect?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

He said it was being run like a flagship as far as athletics. Is that incorrect?

The whole flagship thing is silly anyway. Not every state has a "Flagship" school because they don't have a cohesive university system. California, Texas, and Wisconsin are only a few that I can think of.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Wonder what percentage of NDSU fans and alums voted to change it?

[darell1976]

Wonder what percentage of NDSU fans and alums voted to change it?

about the same as UND fans and alumns. There are some at both schools who voted to keep it for their own reasons but overall it was changed for the best of the University.

[MplsBison]

The whole flagship thing is silly anyway. Not every state has a "Flagship" school because they don't have a cohesive university system. California, Texas, and Wisconsin are only a few that I can think of.

Not that I want to disagree with you, but Wisconsin most definitely has a singular, ubiquitous public university system in which Madison is the unchallenged, unquestionable flagship school.

Minnesota dual systems, with the MNSCU system not really having a definite flagship - though it would be easy to argue that either St Cloud or Mankato would be it.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Not that I want to disagree with you, but Wisconsin most definitely has a singular, ubiquitous public university system in which Madison is the unchallenged, unquestionable flagship school.

Minnesota dual systems, with the MNSCU system not really having a definite flagship - though it would be easy to argue that either St Cloud or Mankato would be it.

I'm not sure you understood what I meant. I mean that those three are examples of a university system with a Flagship. So since you don't want to disagree with me, it's a good thing you aren't. :)

[TheRevSFA]

The whole flagship thing is silly anyway. Not every state has a "Flagship" school because they don't have a cohesive university system. California, Texas, and Wisconsin are only a few that I can think of.

Please note that Texas has 5 university systems - University of Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, U of Houston, and Texas State.

[Go Bison]

Wonder what percentage of NDSU fans and alums voted to change it?

Not sure if you understand how the vote would impact UND(maybe you do). Anyway, if an NDSU fan wanted to stick it to UND they would have voted "No" so UND would be under sanctions and maybe kicked out of the Big Sky conference because they kept the Fighting Sioux name. Changing the name was actually the best thing for UND in this vote. I don't live in ND anymore but my family voted "Yes" to retire the nickname and UND won't be under sanctions.

[darell1976]

Please note that Texas has 5 university systems - University of Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, U of Houston, and Texas State.

What part is SFA a member of?

[MplsBison]

I'm not sure you understood what I meant. I mean that those three are examples of a university system with a Flagship. So since you don't want to disagree with me, it's a good thing you aren't. :)

Either way you're screwed.

UC system most definitely does not have a flagship. Cal, UCLA, UCSB, UCSD and UC Davis are all world class research institutions.

[darell1976]

Not sure if you understand how the vote would impact UND(maybe you do). Anyway, if an NDSU fan wanted to stick it to UND they would have voted "No" so UND would be under sanctions and maybe kicked out of the Big Sky conference because they kept the Fighting Sioux name. Changing the name was actually the best thing for UND in this vote. I don't live in ND anymore but my family voted "Yes" to retire the nickname and UND won't be under sanctions.

From me and other UND fans we thank your family for their vote!!

[TheRevSFA]

What part is SFA a member of?

Answer: None of the above. SFA is independent.

A&M has courted SFA, but wanted SFA to change the name and we aren't going to.

We have it locked in to stay as SFA.

[darell1976]

Answer: None of the above. SFA is independent.

A&M has courted SFA, but wanted SFA to change the name and we are going to.

Change it to Texas A&M-SFA?

[TheRevSFA]

Change it to Texas A&M-SFA?

Sorry I fixed it...they wanted us to be A&M Nacogdoches.

We have legislation that says we stay as SFA. Sam, Lamar, and Sul Ross state have the same.

[Go Bison]

From me and other UND fans we thank your family for their vote!!

It wouldn't be fair to the student athletes to have them be apart of this mess. Plus, I think issue fatigue had set it and lots of people are tired of hearing about it. Personally, I wish UND could change the name sooner rather than later but from my understanding that is not possible. I think that would be the best way to move on.

[darell1976]

Sorry I fixed it...they wanted us to be A&M Nacogdoches.

We have legislation that says we stay as SFA. Sam, Lamar, and Sul Ross state have the same.

UND had schools that was part of their name...UND-Lake Region (Devils Lake), UND-Williston, I think there was a NDSU-Bottineau. But now I think all those schools are on their own.

[darell1976]

It wouldn't be fair to the student athletes to have them be apart of this mess. Plus, I think issue fatigue had set it and lots of people are tired of hearing about it. Personally, I wish UND could change the name sooner rather than later but from my understanding that is not possible. I think that would be the best way to move on.

A lot of people in ND feel that way. You had a lawsuit by the state vs the NCAA in 2007, then retirement, then state law, then repealed state law, then retirement, then petition sent, then Spirit Lake vs NCAA lawsuit, then vote, now retirement. I think enough was enough and people of ND spoke loud and clear!!

[TheRevSFA]

UND had schools that was part of their name...UND-Lake Region (Devils Lake), UND-Williston, I think there was a NDSU-Bottineau. But now I think all those schools are on their own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota_University_System

They still show as part of the system

and I apologize, Texas has 6 university systems (UNT and Lamar technically have their own, but Lamar is also part of the Texas State system..kinda weird)

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Answer: None of the above. SFA is independent.

A&M has courted SFA, but wanted SFA to change the name and we aren't going to.

We have it locked in to stay as SFA.

I remember when perennial DII power Texas A&I became Texas A&M - Kingsville.

Go Javelinas!

[frozennorth]

Either way you're screwed.

UC system most definitely does not have a flagship. Cal, UCLA, UCSB, UCSD and UC Davis are all world class research institutions.

berkeley is normally considered to be the flagship of the UC system.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

berkeley is normally considered to be the flagship of the UC system.

Berkeley is absolutely considered the flagship of the UC system. Even moreso than the others to which I referred.

[darell1976]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota_University_System

They still show as part of the system

and I apologize, Texas has 6 university systems (UNT and Lamar technically have their own, but Lamar is also part of the Texas State system..kinda weird)

So it was just the names that changed. Instead of UND-Lake Region its Lake Region State College.

[darell1976]

I remember when perennial DII power Texas A&I became Texas A&M - Kingsville.

Go Javelinas!

UND played them in 2008, the first time as TA&M-Kingsville....I still remember the 67-44 thumping they gave us in 1986 (I was at that game) as Texas A&I with RB Johnny Bailey (the only player to win the Harlon Hill Trophy 3 times (DII's version of the Heisman).

[MplsBison]

Berkeley is absolutely considered the flagship of the UC system. Even moreso than the others to which I referred.

Umm...nope. Why do you think that? Because their athletic teams are called "Cal" instead of "UC___"? So.

There is most definitely no flagship in the UC system. They go to great pains to make sure no one campus is designated higher than the others. Hence why most of the system is AAU and why the system itself (not a school) is the land-grant for the state.

[344Johnson]

Umm...nope. Why do you think that? Because their athletic teams are called "Cal" instead of "UC___"? So.

There is most definitely no flagship in the UC system. They go to great pains to make sure no one campus is designated higher than the others. Hence why most of the system is AAU and why the system itself (not a school) is the land-grant for the state.


Think of it this way.....if you say Texas A&M, you immediately know it is college station. Wisconsin....Madison....Texas...Austin. If you say Cal....you immediately know Berkeley. Its a flagship, even if not in "definition."

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Think of it this way.....if you say Texas A&M, you immediately know it is college station. Wisconsin....Madison....Texas...Austin. If you say Cal....you immediately know Berkeley. Its a flagship, even if not in "definition."

Except IT IS BY DEFINITION. Not yelling at you, just Trolly McStupid up there.

God, even a little thing called a Google search turned up the answer in less than a second http://berkeley.edu/about/hist/index.shtml

Founded in the wake of the gold rush by leaders of the newly established 31st state, the University of California's flagship campus at Berkeley has become one of the preeminent universities in the world. Its early guiding lights, charged with providing education (both "practical" and "classical") for the state's people, gradually established a distinguished faculty (with 22 Nobel laureates to date), a stellar research library, and more than 350 academic programs.

The UC in everybody's name stands for The University of California.

[Go Poly]

Umm...nope. Why do you think that? Because their athletic teams are called "Cal" instead of "UC___"? So.

There is most definitely no flagship in the UC system. They go to great pains to make sure no one campus is designated higher than the others. Hence why most of the system is AAU and why the system itself (not a school) is the land-grant for the state.

I have lived in California all my life and Berkeley has always been referred to as the Flagship for the UC system, probably because it was the first to open its doors.

[MplsBison]

Think of it this way.....if you say Texas A&M, you immediately know it is college station. Wisconsin....Madison....Texas...Austin. If you say Cal....you immediately know Berkeley. Its a flagship, even if not in "definition."

You're free to think that if you like. But they're in no way the flagship.

The system is not called "Cal University System". It's the UC system, of which UC, Berkeley is one campus. They don't do the most research, they don't have the most distinguished programs, they don't have the best athletics. Basically...they were just the first campus to open. Doesn't buy you much nowadays.

[MplsBison]

Except IT IS BY DEFINITION. Not yelling at you, just Trolly McStupid up there.

God, even a little thing called a Google search turned up the answer in less than a second http://berkeley.edu/about/hist/index.shtml

Founded in the wake of the gold rush by leaders of the newly established 31st state, the University of California's flagship campus at Berkeley has become one of the preeminent universities in the world. Its early guiding lights, charged with providing education (both "practical" and "classical") for the state's people, gradually established a distinguished faculty (with 22 Nobel laureates to date), a stellar research library, and more than 350 academic programs.

The UC in everybody's name stands for The University of California.

Correct, and The University of California, Berkeley is no more the flagship campus of the UC system than The University of California, Los Angeles.


Of course they're going to market themselves as the flagship. Just like UND markets itself the flagship of ND. Doesn't make it so.

[MplsBison]

I have lived in California all my life and Berkeley has always been referred to as the Flagship for the UC system, probably because it was the first to open its doors.

Yep, that's probably why.

But it's not. Glad I could educate you on this topic.

[clenz]

Interesting take by a Cap Berkeley chancellor

http://cio.chance.berkeley.edu/chancellor/sp/flagship.htm


He states that Berkley is the flagship but they have been discouraged from using the term to "not hurt others feeling"

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Interesting take by a Cap Berkeley chancellor

http://cio.chance.berkeley.edu/chancellor/sp/flagship.htm


He states that Berkley is the flagship but they have been discouraged from using the term to "not hurt others feeling"

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

Well he clearly doesn't know nearly as much as Mpls so why should we take his word for it?

[TheRevSFA]

You're free to think that if you like. But they're in no way the flagship.

The system is not called "Cal University System". It's the UC system, of which UC, Berkeley is one campus. They don't do the most research, they don't have the most distinguished programs, they don't have the best athletics. Basically...they were just the first campus to open. Doesn't buy you much nowadays.

So, I'm confused. Even though the official name of Cal is UC-Berkeley, you think that if they were the flagship (since you say they are not) then the system would be the Cal U system? So by your logic, the University of Texas at Austin isn't the flagship of the University of Texas system

[NoDak 4 Ever]

So, I'm confused. Even though the official name of Cal is UC-Berkeley, you think that if they were the flagship (since you say they are not) then the system would be the Cal U system? So by your logic, the University of Texas at Austin isn't the flagship of the University of Texas system

It's amazing how he can turn the simplest things into an argument.

Here is a snipped of the UC Chancellor's speech speaking to exactly what Mpls is referring. I figured it was too much reading for him.

From the start, faculty on each of the flagship campuses expressed concern at the growth of peripheral campuses; they still do. They see these campuses as detracting from and draining resources away from the flagship. As early as the 1920s, when the first branch campus of the University of California was established in Los Angeles, the faculty expressed concern and a fair amount of disdain. For more than two decades, the Los Angeles branch was known merely as the "Southern Division of the University of California." Today we call this outpost UCLA. However, in the heady sixties, with vast amounts of money being poured into higher education, these concerns were easily overridden; the rising tide raised all boats and the political wisdom of systems seemed to be confirmed. Let me add my own view that the political wisdom was correct. I believe the creation of systems was the right choice. But it was the failure to define clear missions that created the problems.

[MplsBison]

Interesting take by a Cap Berkeley chancellor

http://cio.chance.berkeley.edu/chancellor/sp/flagship.htm


He states that Berkley is the flagship but they have been discouraged from using the term to "not hurt others feeling"

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2


How is that any different from Cal website saying they're the flagship? It's a guy from that school, of course he's going to say that.

Get back to me when someone not from Berkeley is falling over themselves to proclaim UC, Berkeley the flagship of the UC system. Ain't gonna happen.

[MplsBison]

It's amazing how he can turn the simplest things into an argument.

Here is a snipped of the UC Chancellor's speech speaking to exactly what Mpls is referring. I figured it was too much reading for him.

From the start, faculty on each of the flagship campuses expressed concern at the growth of peripheral campuses; they still do. They see these campuses as detracting from and draining resources away from the flagship. As early as the 1920s, when the first branch campus of the University of California was established in Los Angeles, the faculty expressed concern and a fair amount of disdain. For more than two decades, the Los Angeles branch was known merely as the "Southern Division of the University of California." Today we call this outpost UCLA. However, in the heady sixties, with vast amounts of money being poured into higher education, these concerns were easily overridden; the rising tide raised all boats and the political wisdom of systems seemed to be confirmed. Let me add my own view that the political wisdom was correct. I believe the creation of systems was the right choice. But it was the failure to define clear missions that created the problems.


How is that any different from Cal website saying they're the flagship? It's a guy from that school, of course he's going to say that.

Get back to me when someone not from Berkeley is falling over themselves to proclaim UC, Berkeley the flagship of the UC system. Ain't gonna happen.

[MplsBison]

So, I'm confused. Even though the official name of Cal is UC-Berkeley, you think that if they were the flagship (since you say they are not) then the system would be the Cal U system? So by your logic, the University of Texas at Austin isn't the flagship of the University of Texas system

Of course you're confused. In typical AGS fashion, you don't reference the context of the quoted post I was replying to.

[MplsBison]

Hey check this out: http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/159092885.html


North Dakota's flagship university dropped its contentious Fighting Sioux nickname for the third time Thursday, and officials expressed hope that the latest retirement — fueled by this week's overwhelming statewide vote — would finally stick.

Guess who wrote that? DAVE KOLPACK!!!

The NDSU beat writer for the Fargo Forum.


EDIT: whoops - fail. The beat writer at the Forum is JEFF Kolpack. I don't know who the heck Dave is. Still, point was made.

[TheRevSFA]

Of course you're confused. In typical AGS fashion, you don't reference the context of the quoted post I was replying to.

What's funny about your whole argument, is that at one point you told me that Texas State should be considered the flagship of the Texas State University system based on their name, and what they have done to advertise themselves as such, even though technically the TSUS doesn't have a flagship.

Now you completely change your argument for UC-Berkeley, although by name (being known as Cal) they should be the flagship, based on your TSUS argument

Mpls logic at work...

[Gil Dobie]

Hey check this out: http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/159092885.html



Guess who wrote that? DAVE KOLPACK!!!

The NDSU beat writer for the Fargo Forum.


EDIT: whoops - fail. The beat writer at the Forum is JEFF Kolpack. I don't know who the heck Dave is. Still, point was made.

It was made tongue in cheek

[NoDak 4 Ever]

What's funny about your whole argument, is that at one point you told me that Texas State should be considered the flagship of the Texas State University system based on their name, and what they have done to advertise themselves as such, even though technically the TSUS doesn't have a flagship.

Now you completely change your argument for UC-Berkeley, although by name (being known as Cal) they should be the flagship, based on your TSUS argument

Mpls logic at work...

http://trinities.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/You-keep-using-that-word-300x252.jpg

[BISON Thunder]

Back to the subject at hand, I suggest UND's new nickname be the "Patch" in honor of all the black gold out west supporting the state. And the Alerus would be known as the home of the scary Patch.:D

[TheRevSFA]

UND's Mascot can be the Tornadoes, and their mascot can be a photo of the F5 Tornado that hit Fargo back in the 50s.

Would be fitting on many levels.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The whole thing does bring up an interesting dynamic. Especially with the modern media and licensing opportunities, a school nickname carries so much more weight than it did 100 years ago. You have to pick a name that will stick and sell. Lots of schools that change these days blow it big time.

[MplsBison]

It was made tongue in cheek

Not really...

[MplsBison]

What's funny about your whole argument, is that at one point you told me that Texas State should be considered the flagship of the Texas State University system based on their name, and what they have done to advertise themselves as such, even though technically the TSUS doesn't have a flagship.

Now you completely change your argument for UC-Berkeley, although by name (being known as Cal) they should be the flagship, based on your TSUS argument

Mpls logic at work...

First of all, you're exactly wrong for the exact same reason as the original post I quoted.


The Uni of Texas, Austin ("Texas") is the flagship of the Uni of Texas system. Completely unchallenged by any other campus.
The Uni of Wisconsin, Madison ("Wisconsin") is the flagship of the Uni of Wisc system. Completely unchallenged by any other campus.

The Uni of California, Berkeley ("Cal") is NOT the flagship of the Uni of Cal system because at a minimum, UCLA could challenge them in every facet - even in the sense of being located in a more important city within the state (although that would be a deathly fierce argument that I want nothing of). Their use of "Cal" is just a nickname for convenience, and in this case should not be confused as an indication of flagship status - as it can be for the other cases mentioned above.


Second of all, for the TSUS argument to apply here you'd need UC, Berkeley to be the only campus in the system called "The University of California, _____" and every other campus to be called something else entirely. Not applicable.

[Go Bison]

Hey check this out: http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/159092885.html



Guess who wrote that? DAVE KOLPACK!!!

The NDSU beat writer for the Fargo Forum.


EDIT: whoops - fail. The beat writer at the Forum is JEFF Kolpack. I don't know who the heck Dave is. Still, point was made.

Dave Kolpack is a UND homer. Always has been and always will be. When NDSU made the Big Dance in basketball he wrote an some articles about it and every time he would mention UND even thought the story had nothing to do with UND.

[MplsBison]

Who is he? Related to Jeff?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Who is he? Related to Jeff?

Brother, sons of legendary Forum writer Ed Kolpack.


Did you ever spend any time in Fargo?

[Gil Dobie]

Brother, sons of legendary Forum writer Ed Kolpack.


Did you ever spend any time in Fargo?

Explains a lot if some one doesn't know the Kolpacks.

[darell1976]

Back to the subject at hand, I suggest UND's new nickname be the "Patch" in honor of all the black gold out west supporting the state. And the Alerus would be known as the home of the scary Patch.:D

There was a suggestion made on the ss website about Oilers for the oil fields. I know Edmonton has that has their hockey team. But I don't think UND would use it since the oil is just in the west and not in the east. I think they want a name that would be either statewide or close to the campus.

[darell1976]

UND's Mascot can be the Tornadoes, and their mascot can be a photo of the F5 Tornado that hit Fargo back in the 50s.

Would be fitting on many levels.

There is a high school in ND with that name...the Cavalier Tornadoes. I don't think they want to use disasters...too much contraversey even though these are used (Miami Hurricanes, Iowa State Cyclones).

[darell1976]

The last time UND had a mascot he was Thunder the Bleacher Creature.
http://gfsports.areavoices.com/2009/05/15/hoping-for-a-bleacher-creature-return/


For those of you who weren’t blessed enough to remember the Bleacher Creature mascot of the 1990s, think a cross between the Phillie Phanatic and Mr. Met. That probably doesn’t even do it justice. It truly was a ‘Creature’.

The Bleacher Creature paraded around Memorial Stadium and Hyslop Sports Center, often running away from kids trying to yank out his oversized tounge. As a young sports fan in Grand Forks in those days, I loved the thing.

An exerpt from the 1994 Herald story:

"The mascot is under review," said Athletic Director Terry Wanless.

He emphasized that "Thunder," who made his debut in the fall of 1990, would not become an extinct species before the spring semester is over in May.

And take a look at this expert from a 1990 story by the Herald’s Kevin Bonham. Classic stuff. Especially when you get a mascot to say "headbutts with a bison is no easy job":


But it was Thunder the Bleacher Creature who stole the sideline show at the 95th UND-NDSU football game Saturday at Memorial Stadium.

Thunder was a hit from the moment he broke loose from a cage at midfield just before the game began.

He pranced around the stadium all game long, He followed the halftime dance team out onto the field then fell on his rear when they sat down. He mimicked the referees. He taunted the players.


I was there for his debut and he was great. A big gorilla running around making people laugh and having a good time. Of course with the nickname Fighting Sioux people complained and he was gone after one year.

[MplsBison]

Brother, sons of legendary Forum writer Ed Kolpack.


Did you ever spend any time in Fargo?

Undergrad only. Moved back to the cities the May of my graduating year.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Undergrad only. Moved back to the cities the May of my graduating year.

Kolpacks have been covering sports in Fargo, quite conspicuously, for almost 50 years.

Ed is in the Bison Hall of Fame

[Ginsbach]

There is a high school in ND with that name...the Cavalier Tornadoes. I don't think they want to use disasters...too much contraversey even though these are used (Miami Hurricanes, Iowa State Cyclones).

There are two high schools in North Dakota that use the Tornadoes mascot. Oakes is also the Tornadoes. Oddly enough, both Cavalier and Oakes have the same colors (Orange and black).

[TheRevSFA]

There is a high school in ND with that name...the Cavalier Tornadoes. I don't think they want to use disasters...too much contraversey even though these are used (Miami Hurricanes, Iowa State Cyclones).

Look, we even have a mascot...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/1957_Fargo_tornado.jpg

[darell1976]

Look, we even have a mascot...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/1957_Fargo_tornado.jpg

There was a tornado that ripped through the town of Northwood, ND a few years ago which is just south and west of Grand Forks, so I am sure that is one name people aren't going to be cheering for.

[Hammerhead]

What about Pilots? UND has an aviation school, and 2 air force bases along Highway 2 with one not too far from Grand Forks.

Something like Fur trappers would tie into the French explorers who were the earliest Europeans around there. (If you don't believe the Viking runestone is for realz.)
I'd suggest Pioneers, but that's taken by Northland Community College.




I think they want a name that would be either statewide or close to the campus.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

What about Pilots? UND has an aviation school, and 2 air force bases along Highway 2 with one not too far from Grand Forks.

Something like Fur trappers would tie into the French explorers who were the earliest Europeans around there. (If you don't believe the Viking runestone is for realz.)
I'd suggest Pioneers, but that's taken by Northland Community College.


The Voyageurs - that might work.

[darell1976]

What about Pilots? UND has an aviation school, and 2 air force bases along Highway 2 with one not too far from Grand Forks.

Something like Fur trappers would tie into the French explorers who were the earliest Europeans around there. (If you don't believe the Viking runestone is for realz.)
I'd suggest Pioneers, but that's taken by Northland Community College.

Fur trappers could work since Grand Forks used to be a fur trapping town long long ago (1700's-1800's), but then PETA would be on UND for that name. Pilots could work or Aviators, or even drones. The GFAFB has drones, UND was the first school in the world to offer a 4 year program to that kind of study.

[Gil Dobie]

Drillers, Oilers, Black Gold.

[NDB]

Divas

Raging Reds/Redskins (Potatoes)

[344Johnson]

I'd revert back to the flicker tails. Some people think it seems dump, but it is our state animal...and represents the state well.

[Tod]

I'd revert back to the flicker tails. Some people think it seems dump, but it is our state animal...and represents the state well.

I agree.

[Houndawg]

The Buffaloes. xthumbsupx

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The Buffaloes. xthumbsupx

Since a buffalo is distinctly different than a bison, that would work.

[BisonFan02]

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/41798_156701067687886_953205_n.jpg

[NoDak 4 Ever]

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/41798_156701067687886_953205_n.jpg

Right? Because that's the ONLY thing they care about.

http://www.inforum.com/media/full/jpg/2011/01/16/nickname.jpg

[BisonFan02]

Right? Because that's the ONLY thing they care about.

http://www.inforum.com/media/full/jpg/2011/01/16/nickname.jpg

You got it. Problem solved!

[GoAgs72]

Cal thinks they're the flagship of the UC system but no one else does. UCLA and UC Davis are both the same size as Berkeley and UC San Diego is not far behind. Prestige-wise, UC Berkeley, UCLA, UC San Diego, UC Davis and UC Santa Barbara are all in the top 25 for public universities.

For North Dakota:
1. Rough Riders
2. Buffaloes - I think it would great having Buffaloes against Bison
3. Soo - commemorating the great railroad line.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Cal thinks they're the flagship of the UC system but no one else does. UCLA and UC Davis are both the same size as Berkeley and UC San Diego is not far behind. Prestige-wise, UC Berkeley, UCLA, UC San Diego, UC Davis and UC Santa Barbara are all in the top 25 for public universities.

For North Dakota:
1. Rough Riders
2. Buffaloes - I think it would great having Buffaloes against Bison
3. Soo - commemorating the great railroad line.

ok. I give up. In academia, a first campus from which other campuses spring up and eventually become a system, is typically considered a flagship. It's the same all over the country. Doesn't matter what's the size, all that matters is the organization, that's all. North Dakota doesn't have a university system in the same way that Wisconsin and California have, that is my entire thesis.

I'm really beginning to hate that word.

By the way, for anyone who is curious.....

This is a buffalo, genus Bubalus

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--s5H8oN6u74/TlaAAGRAQCI/AAAAAAAAAfA/Sre_M4SdstU/s1600/water_buffalo_1.jpg


This is a bison, genus Bison

http://greatamericanbison.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/bison2.jpg

[darell1976]

Cal thinks they're the flagship of the UC system but no one else does. UCLA and UC Davis are both the same size as Berkeley and UC San Diego is not far behind. Prestige-wise, UC Berkeley, UCLA, UC San Diego, UC Davis and UC Santa Barbara are all in the top 25 for public universities.

For North Dakota:
1. Rough Riders
2. Buffaloes - I think it would great having Buffaloes against Bison
3. Soo - commemorating the great railroad line.

NEVER!!! I think fans of UND would rather be known as the Flickertails again than the Buffaloes. Now your third choice Soo has been talked about on SS. I think it would be cool, plus it would work in our fight songs from Sioux to Soo. But is there some kind of a copyright on the name that UND couldn't use it?

[MplsBison]

ok. I give up. In academia, a first campus from which other campuses spring up and eventually become a system, is typically considered a flagship. It's the same all over the country. Doesn't matter what's the size, all that matters is the organization, that's all. North Dakota doesn't have a university system in the same way that Wisconsin and California have, that is my entire thesis.

I'm really beginning to hate that word.

By the way, for anyone who is curious.....

This is a buffalo, genus Bubalus


This is a bison, genus Bison


A flagship literally refers to the grandest ship of a fleet, which would be the lead ship and bear the flag representing the fleet, etc.

Cal quite clearly does not fit such a description for the UC "fleet", if you will. As I've tried to explain, UCLA, UCSD, UCD and UCSB are all world class research institutions. Cal certainly is as well in its own right, but not any more so than those others I just listed.

California is an anomaly in the sense of not having a clear cut single flagship or dual flagship of public universities as exists in every other state. But it is what it is and you can't pigeonhole them into that model.

Just trust me on this one thing.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

A flagship literally refers to the grandest ship of a fleet, which would be the lead ship and bear the flag representing the fleet, etc.

Cal quite clearly does not fit such a description for the UC "fleet", if you will. As I've tried to explain, UCLA, UCSD, UCD and UCSB are all world class research institutions. Cal certainly is as well in its own right, but not any more so than those others I just listed.

California is an anomaly in the sense of not having a clear cut single flagship or dual flagship of public universities as exists in every other state. But it is what it is and you can't pigeonhole them into that model.

Just trust me on this one thing.

I see, because you went to one college, you appear to know about all of them.

[Hammerhead]

Soo sounds like Sioux, but a better fit railroad-wise might be the old Great Northern line that merged into Burlington Northern which later merged into BNSF. While there aren't any mountain goats anywhere near Grand Forks, they might be able to use one of the Great Northern logos. They even had a big sky logo.

The BN color scheme is pretty close to the color of green UND uses. http://www.gnrhs.org/logos.htm

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/BN_766_EMD_F9.jpg/800px-BN_766_EMD_F9.jpg

http://images.footballfanatics.com/FFImage/thumb.aspx?i=%2fproductImages%2f_448000%2fFF_44820 7_xl.jpg&w=400







Cal thinks they're the flagship of the UC system but no one else does. UCLA and UC Davis are both the same size as Berkeley and UC San Diego is not far behind. Prestige-wise, UC Berkeley, UCLA, UC San Diego, UC Davis and UC Santa Barbara are all in the top 25 for public universities.

For North Dakota:
1. Rough Riders
2. Buffaloes - I think it would great having Buffaloes against Bison
3. Soo - commemorating the great railroad line.

[ExpandSpanos]

How about the UND Mammoth?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cMk4viO6VKQ/TjSX86ABseI/AAAAAAAAAS8/XY20ofk4RuE/s1600/woolly_mammoth_4.jpg

[MplsBison]

I see, because you went to one college, you appear to know about all of them.

Go ahead, be pissed I was right about something.

When you're as wrong as often as I am, hey - the sun shines on a dog's butt now and then.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Go ahead, be pissed I was right about something.

When you're as wrong as often as I am, hey - the sun shines on a dog's butt now and then.

Somehow I think you've come up with another sig for someone else MPLS.:D

[NoDak 4 Ever]

How about the UND Mammoth?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cMk4viO6VKQ/TjSX86ABseI/AAAAAAAAAS8/XY20ofk4RuE/s1600/woolly_mammoth_4.jpg

That would be awfully close to the IPFW Mastodons

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3a/IPFWMastodons.png

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Go ahead, be pissed I was right about something.

When you're as wrong as often as I am, hey - the sun shines on a dog's butt now and then.

It is rather exhausting arguing with you. I'm really mad at myself every time I get caught up in it.

You're not right, this is an argument about semantics, which are always stupid.

I have a unique perspective in this because I married an academic. Just because Tyus Edney went to a school and they have a really good basketball program doesn't make them a superior school. Berkeley is considered the most academically superior public institution in California.

They are the oldest.
They have the largest endowment.
They offer more degree programs.
They have the most Nobel laureates.
They are ranked higher on almost all of the lists.

Once again, you have derailed an argument that I was trying to stop, the notion of UND/NDSU and flagship status. That doesn't exist because the system doesn't exist in ND.

[GoAgs72]

It is rather exhausting arguing with you. I'm really mad at myself every time I get caught up in it.

You're not right, this is an argument about semantics, which are always stupid.

I have a unique perspective in this because I married an academic. Just because Tyus Edney went to a school and they have a really good basketball program doesn't make them a superior school. Berkeley is considered the most academically superior public institution in California.

They are the oldest.
They have the largest endowment.
They offer more degree programs.
They have the most Nobel laureates.
They are ranked higher on almost all of the lists.

Once again, you have derailed an argument that I was trying to stop, the notion of UND/NDSU and flagship status. That doesn't exist because the system doesn't exist in ND.

Actually UC Davis offers more degree programs than any other UC campus.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Actually UC Davis offers more degree programs than any other UC campus.

UC Davis, according to their website offers 189 undergraduate and graduate programs

UC Berkeley, according to their website offers 350 Undergraduate and graduate programs

I'm much less a fan of Berkeley and much more a fan of getting my point across, UC Davis is on top of my list of places I hope my wife can get a job next spring when she graduates.

[MplsBison]

Sorry NoDak, you're wrong and you just won't admit it.

You didn't attend a school in the UC system. Someone who did is telling you that you're wrong.


You're a fool to argue with them.

[MplsBison]

It is rather exhausting arguing with you. I'm really mad at myself every time I get caught up in it.

You're not right, this is an argument about semantics, which are always stupid.

I have a unique perspective in this because I married an academic. Just because Tyus Edney went to a school and they have a really good basketball program doesn't make them a superior school. Berkeley is considered the most academically superior public institution in California.

They are the oldest.
They have the largest endowment.
They offer more degree programs.
They have the most Nobel laureates.
They are ranked higher on almost all of the lists.

Once again, you have derailed an argument that I was trying to stop, the notion of UND/NDSU and flagship status. That doesn't exist because the system doesn't exist in ND.

Of all the criteria you just listed, Cal does not have a significant enough advantage over UCLA to declare it the flagship of the UC system.

Simple as that.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Sorry NoDak, you're wrong and you just won't admit it.

You didn't attend a school in the UC system. Someone who did is telling you that you're wrong.


You're a fool to argue with them.


Since I proved my point with actual numbers, I beg to differ.


Of all the criteria you just listed, Cal does not have a significant enough advantage over UCLA to declare it the flagship of the UC system.

Simple as that.

I'm actually a fool to argue with you because you take pride in making unqualified statements and are quite satisfied with that whereas I feel the need to back up much of what I posit.

I'm actually quite jealous of your incuriousity

[LakesBizun]

I'm just glad the North Dakota flagship university got their nickname taken care of. Now NDSU should play them as soon as possible.

[Professor Chaos]

The UND Greenmen.

http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx84/johncolaw/Always%20Sunny%20gifs/greenmannutkick.gif

I'd might dislike them less if they had a cool nickname like that.... actually, it wouldn't matter.

[MplsBison]

Since I proved my point with actual numbers, I beg to differ.



I'm actually a fool to argue with you because you take pride in making unqualified statements and are quite satisfied with that whereas I feel the need to back up much of what I posit.

I'm actually quite jealous of your incuriousity

You've only provided some factoids that no one uses to define flagship status.

How is that backing up anything? In your own mind, perhaps.


Every other state has one or two public schools which are largely unchallenged as the lead campuses in the state. California does not.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

You've only provided some factoids that no one uses to define flagship status.

How is that backing up anything? In your own mind, perhaps.


Every other state has one or two public schools which are largely unchallenged as the lead campuses in the state. California does not.

I dare you to source just ONE of the things you spew, dare you.

[MplsBison]

Already have.

In most two-flagship states the other flagship is typically a separate university established by the Morrill Act and designated by the state as the land-grant school. In California, they designated the entire U of CA system as the land-grant.

That's the only state where this happened.


As I said, it's the anomaly.