If Elon goes to the CAA, who does the SoCon add?

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Will Coastal Carolina or Jax State get invites?

[aceinthehole]

I don't know, but I think Big South football could be in trouble.

If they lose Stony Brook to the CAA and any other football team to the SoCon they would not have enough members to qualify for the AQ.

Would it then be possible to give their AQ to the Pioneer League and avoid expanding the playoffs?

[kdinva]

Will Coastal Carolina or Jax State get invites?

It won't be CCU for at least 4 years........they are hosting the Big South Hoops tourneys thru 2015 (M & W), they won't split before then......

[GATA_Eagles]

It won't be CCU for at least 4 years........they are hosting the Big South Hoops tourneys thru 2015 (M & W), they won't split before then......

That may not have an effect on it. The SoCon hoops tourney was in Asheville this past year at UNC-Asheville

[mocman1990]

Is there legitimate talk that Elon might go to the CAA? I just browsed around the net, but didn't really see anything.

[melloware13]

That may not have an effect on it. The SoCon hoops tourney was in Asheville this past year at UNC-Asheville

Wasn't at UNC-Asheville, just in Asheville. Similar to how CAA Men's tourney is in Richmond, down the block from VCU, but not at VCU's arena.

[Apphole]

Some private embarrassment with no history of success or fan following.

[hapapp]

Actually, they played the first rounds of the women's tournament at UNC-A.

[Sader87]

Along with Villanova going to the Patriot League (for football) sooner rather than later, I'd bet on Richmond and W&M playing football in the SoCon soon enough.

[SpiritCymbal]

Wasn't at UNC-Asheville, just in Asheville. Similar to how CAA Men's tourney is in Richmond, down the block from VCU, but not at VCU's arena.

Women's tourny was played at UNC-A's home court.

[youwouldno]

Along with Villanova going to the Patriot League (for football) sooner rather than later, I'd bet on Richmond and W&M playing football in the SoCon soon enough.

Richmond will never play football in the SoCon; they'll probably wind up in the PL.

There's no indication of actual departures from the SoCon, but even in the absence of that it probably would be smart to expand. My preference is to look West for balance purposes, and target EKU and Tenn. Tech.

[CoastalFan2005]

It won't be CCU for at least 4 years........they are hosting the Big South Hoops tourneys thru 2015 (M & W), they won't split before then......

Don't assume that us hosting the basketball tourneys is going to lock us into Big South Membership. The Big South tourneys will still come here whether or not CCU is a member.

[ThompsonThe]

If Elon goes to the CAA........what do we do?

We laugh our asses off for about 48 hours, then
The whole SoCon gets together and parties like hell...
Then we hold the huge parade.

[whitey]

Along with Villanova going to the Patriot League (for football) sooner rather than later, I'd bet on Richmond and W&M playing football in the SoCon soon enough.

At first I thought the CAA was going to break up for sure. That's probably because I'm an eternal pessimist, but I've since come around. The CAA still has plenty going for it as a mid-major conference and will just reload instead. Villanova, Richmond and W&M won't be going anywhere.

[whitey]

Don't assume that us hosting the basketball tourneys is going to lock us into Big South Membership. The Big South tourneys will still come here whether or not CCU is a member.

I think it's correct to say that hosting the basketball tourney doesn't necessarily tie you into Big South membership. But I wouldn't assume the Big South tourney will still come to CCU if they bolt for another conference. CUSA just moved their 2013 tournament from Memphis to Tulsa now that Memphis is headed to the Big East.

[fc97]

awwwww

that means appalachian fans will have to find someone new to hate

doesnt it seem ironic, only a month ago the posts were what to do when appalachian was announced at leaving the "smallcon" and now the discussion is elon leaving instead

note nothing official has happened, so you get to love on us indefinitely longer for now

[asumike83]

doesnt it seem ironic, only a month ago the posts were what to do when appalachian was announced at leaving the "smallcon" and now the discussion is elon leaving instead

note nothing official has happened, so you get to love on us indefinitely longer for now

What's ironic is that in the exact thread you're referencing, you told App fans not to post because it was only for "long-term SoCon members" like Elon. You also suggested that Appalachian should be voted out by the presidents because our fans were talking on message boards about leaving the SoCon. Ironically, the first person to start a thread about Elon leaving was you.

But yes, nothing is official so we will get to continue your 16-game, 37-year losing streak indefinitely for now.

[Apphole]

awwwww

that means appalachian fans will have to find someone new to hate

doesnt it seem ironic, only a month ago the posts were what to do when appalachian was announced at leaving the "smallcon" and now the discussion is elon leaving instead

note nothing official has happened, so you get to love on us indefinitely longer for now

App fans only hate the fElons for the 6 days between the last conference game and your game. You are an afterthought that hasn't beaten us in 37 years.


Oh and we hate you when you try to intentionally injure our QB every single year.

Oh and when Scott Riddle played for you, the most classless player in SoCon history (except maybe TO?)

[kdinva]

......But I wouldn't assume the Big South tourney will still come to CCU if they bolt for another conference. CUSA just moved their 2013 tournament from Memphis to Tulsa now that Memphis is headed to the Big East.

+1

The head of the Myrtle Beach Chamber of Comm. is watching.

[fc97]

the difference being, the elon administration has not come forward to say we are leaving or want to leave

and since this talk surfaced, i stopped talking about who the conference should be thinking about

[fc97]

oh apphole, you work so hard to make such false statements

you focus so hard on everyone else :)

[asumike83]

the difference being, the elon administration has not come forward to say we are leaving or want to leave

and since this talk surfaced, i stopped talking about who the conference should be thinking about

Fair enough but as I have said before, our administration has been straight-forward and respectful through the process, although they have made their intentions known. You suggested that we be voted out because our FANS wanted out and said so on message boards. My point is that message boards are here for that purpose, for fans to speculate. It would be equally insane to suggest the SoCon voting Elon out because of message board speculation about you guys bolting for the CAA.

[GlassOnion]

the difference being, the elon administration has not come forward to say we are leaving or want to leave

and since this talk surfaced, i stopped talking about who the conference should be thinking about

So it's better to leave the Socon in a lurch than to be open and fair so that the conference can plan accordingly? Eh tu Brute?

And apphole is right. Elon players under Lembo had an affinity for knees.

[Apphole]

oh apphole, you work so hard to make such false statements

you focus so hard on everyone else :)

Yes indeed, my mind works outwards. I'm a true altruist.

As far as my statements being false, I'd love to hear some specifics. There aren't that many App fans that consider Elon a rival. You're usually our homecoming game, an easy win against whom we own almost 4 decades of consecutive wins.

It's well accepted that Elon makes a dirty play against Appalachian on a yearly basis, especially on our QB's.

And Scott Riddle started the biggest baseball brawl in SoCon history, made an *** of himself of the field regularly and got arrested for being drunk and disorderly the night before the App game last year.

[fc97]

though i may have said that based on reactions of what fans say, as it does hurt the public image of the conference, i also continue to state that the public intentions made by appalachian state also hurt the image of stability of the conference. if elon did the same thing, i would feel the same way about elon. just dump them because it hurts the conference.

the same thing is going on in the caa with certain fans

[fc97]

we have been through the knees stuff a number of times. under lembo in two games one player tackled edwards with legal hits to get the guy down. its a contact sport, why do you guys continue to cry about this

and riddle, drunk and disorderly, who cares. he graduated well before that incident. thats like hold utc responsible for to in the nfl. its just stupid.

also, i said nothing about an app and elon rivalry. i only commented on the continued attention that you give us apphole. and youre still going :)

[asumike83]

though i may have said that based on reactions of what fans say, as it does hurt the public image of the conference, i also continue to state that the public intentions made by appalachian state also hurt the image of stability of the conference.

the same thing is going on in the caa with certain fans

I agree, the possibility of losing a conference mainstay being made public does hurt the perception of a conference's stability. However, when considering a transition to FBS and all that goes along with it (facilities upgrades, feasibility study, etc.), it is nearly impossible to do without it being public knowledge. Since that is the case, the best our leaders can do is be forthright and keep the conference up to date on what (if anything) is happening on that front.

[fc97]

and maybe they are, and maybe elon and charleston are too. no idea what goes on behind closed doors. none of us really do. at the end, image is everything and the conference is a business. hurting the image could lead to just being dismissed to salvage an image. all i was saying is that that is a viable alternative.

[Apphole]

i only commented on the continued attention that you give us apphole. and youre still going :)

Oh I see you continue to talk out of both sides of your mouth.

Your statement: "awwwww

that means appalachian fans will have to find someone new to hate"

[asumike83]

We will just have to agree to disagree. Changing conference affiliation is business as usual in today's NCAA landscape, something every conference has to deal with. It would take some serious public jabs at the SoCon to warrant a discussion of dismissing a school who's been a SoCon member for 41 years and contributed a lot to its success.

[apaladin]

Will Coastal Carolina or Jax State get invites?

I would doubt either of these especially JSU since they are an FBS wannabe. If JSU was to commit to staying FCS then I think they would be a good addition to the SoCon.

[GlassOnion]

we have been through the knees stuff a number of times. under lembo in two games one player tackled edwards with legal hits to get the guy down. its a contact sport, why do you guys continue to cry about this


Bull crap. The 2009 game Edwards was ripped to the turf 3 yard out of bounds at the end of the first quarter, at the end of the second, his knee was taken out, and later when his knee was wrapped and he was basically a pocket passer, an Elon player literally crab crawled to hit him in the legs after the ball was already thrown.

Thats just one game.

[superman7515]

Kennesaw State, South Carolina State, or anyone from the Big South if that starts falling apart would be pretty easy to get into the SoCon.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

All that's missing from this thread now is for some UNCC or Georgia State person to come in and make a smart remark. xlolx

[ASUMountaineer]

Fair enough but as I have said before, our administration has been straight-forward and respectful through the process, although they have made their intentions known. You suggested that we be voted out because our FANS wanted out and said so on message boards. My point is that message boards are here for that purpose, for fans to speculate. It would be equally insane to suggest the SoCon voting Elon out because of message board speculation about you guys bolting for the CAA.

Mike, sometimes reason doesn't reign supreme my friend.

[asumike83]

Mike, sometimes reason doesn't reign supreme my friend.

Oh well... I can always hope! xlolx

[Apphole]

Mike, sometimes reason doesn't reign supreme my friend.

Very true regarding conference alignment and conversation with fc97.

[fc97]

mike, i see your point and i hope you can at least see my argument too, neither mean much as like i said, things go on behind closed doors that no one here is really privvy to

[fc97]

im not going to argue the merits or lack there of with these hits. you simply will not let this stuff go and continue to whine about it. there were no dirty plays. edwards was friends with some elon players. there was no hatred of moore and lembo to each other. none of these hits were called as penalties. and most of all, elon lost more players to injuries during these games than edwards did.

im sorry he got hurt. it sucks. its a tough game. people get hurt all the time on legal hits.

[GlassOnion]

im not going to argue the merits or lack there of with these hits. you simply will not let this stuff go and continue to whine about it. there were no dirty plays. edwards was friends with some elon players. there was no hatred of moore and lembo to each other. none of these hits were called as penalties. and most of all, elon lost more players to injuries during these games than edwards did.

im sorry he got hurt. it sucks. its a tough game. people get hurt all the time on legal hits.

I didnt bring it up, it was you with a smart-A App State comment that started this.

And youre not arguing the merits, because you cant. I pulled them up on my TV before I even posted that list. The Ex Furman color guy even mentioned them, but couldnt comment further because he, along with Socon coaches, are prohibited by the conference from criticising Socon officials' calls.

And even if a hit was legal, it doesnt mean its ethical. IE Saints coaches offering bounties on hits. Not injuries, on legal HITS.

And you obviously have no clue how App staff, or even Lembo apparently, feel about the other.

[fc97]

the merits are still the same. they are tough hits and landed in injuries. the goal is to keep the other guy from scoring and to not hurt them. elon had more players hurt in app games than the other way. does that make app a dirty team

and sorry guy, apphole brought this up

[GlassOnion]

the merits are still the same.

If you think legal = ethical, you have some serious issues with reality.

[EKU-n-GSU]

Richmond will never play football in the SoCon; they'll probably wind up in the PL.

There's no indication of actual departures from the SoCon, but even in the absence of that it probably would be smart to expand. My preference is to look West for balance purposes, and target EKU and Tenn. Tech.

Personally I'd like to see EKU and/or TTU, but I don't think the OVC is going to let two of its 'charter' schools exit stage left. SCSU, JSU, and upstart Kennesaw State make the most sense from a logistics point of view...time will tell.

[GlassOnion]

Personally I'd like to see EKU and/or TTU, but I don't think the OVC is going to let two of its 'charter' schools exit stage left. SCSU, JSU, and upstart Kennesaw State make the most sense from a logistics point of view...time will tell.

I agree, OVC schools arent likely. I think JSU and Ken St are legit candidates, but I really dont see SC State. Didnt they just have some huge financial issues?

[EKU-n-GSU]

I agree, OVC schools arent likely. I think JSU and Ken St are legit candidates, but I really dont see SC State. Didnt they just have some huge financial issues?

Hadn't heard...another 'candidate' school would be Savannah State, certainly an easy home and home for GSU and the rest of the SoCon, but not much in the way of competition. Living in the Atlanta-area, Elon, App St., and The Citadel are our 'worst' road trips. This years' schedule being what it is, we'll travel more miles to Statesboro than to the rest of our away games, hands down. Go figure!

Go Eagles!
16550

[asumike83]

Does Kennesaw State have solid plans to play football? I thought they ran into some roadblocks and had to delay but I could be wrong.

[Saint3333]

I'm much more concerned with CofC, DC, and Furman rumors. Elon, really?

[phoenix3]

If Elon gets an invite from the CAA, which I'm not sure will happen, I guess I could see them going due to the fact that 46% of the student body, (future alumni), is from CAA states. It would surprise me, however, if Elon were to move. My impression is that the school is satisfied with membership in the SoCon. Regardless of whether Elon moves or not, I think with ASU and GSU intending to go FBS, the SoCon should be proactive in recruiting new members. Whether the SoCon will invite Coastal is anyone's best guess, but it seems like Coastal would be a perfect fit.

[asumike83]

If Elon gets an invite from the CAA, which I'm not sure will happen, I guess I could see them going due to the fact that 46% of the student body, (future alumni), is from CAA states. It would surprise me, however, if Elon were to move. My impression is that the school is satisfied with membership in the SoCon. Regardless of whether Elon moves or not, I think with ASU and GSU intending to go FBS, the SoCon should be proactive in recruiting new members. Whether the SoCon will invite Coastal is anyone's best guess, but it seems like Coastal would be a perfect fit.

I agree. It seems fairly clear that whether it is to the FBS, CAA or both, the SoCon is at a serious risk of losing members. They should definitely be proactive and invite Coastal. They'd compete in football, be very solid in basketball and add another excellent baseball program. However, having foresight and being proactive does not exactly jive with the the track record of SoCon leadership.

[Smitty]

Almost too bad that UNC-A doesn't have a football team...

[GlassOnion]

App, CofC, Davidson, GSU, Elon, Samford, Western, Furman, The Cit, UNCG, Wofford.

App and GSU will leave. Its just a matter of when. If CoC and Davidson go, there isnt a candidate, or pair of candidates out there that will come near replacing what the Socon lost. I dont want to be in a Socon without Davidson or CofC, I wonder if they feel anything like that about losing App and GSU being that theyre not that into football?

[fc97]

davidson and furman are the smallest flight risks of any mentioned
appalachian and georgia southern being the biggest

elon and charleston are the two schools that fit by geography only, if you can fit by geography elsewhere and fit better overall, then why not

i can understand the elon, really, comments. after all, it was appalachian, really, that was supposed to be gone to cusa, no wait, mac, no wait sun belt already

[Saint3333]

Elon just doesn't offer as much as other schools mentioned. They aren't as good in football or basketball as other teams mentioned and don't bring fans to games are tournaments. I'm wondering why the CAA would be interested unless other SoCon schools have turned down CAA offers.

I agree with the other Elon poster the SoCon should going after schools and IMO should be reaching out to the CAA. Of course that would take leadership and vision so let's not get ahead of ourselves.

[fc97]

elon traveled better to towson, hofstra and the two games at richmond better than i have seen them travel anywhere outside of furman. more alumni in the northern areas mean more show up to the northern games

[youwouldno]

Elon and CoC do not fit the SoCon "by geography only," in fact it is by far the best fit for either of them and that's why they aren't leaving. Charleston is nowhere near the CAA's footprint and Elon has one semi-peer institution in the CAA versus a bunch in the SoCon.

The SoCon makes perfect sense if you look up the US News college rankings. Start with the Southern regional list- you'll quickly notice a trend.

So far as the OVC, I don't know what their exit fee is, if any, but otherwise what can they do? On the other hand, I don't know how interested various OVC members would be in a move. Tenn. Tech for instance might not really be looking to upgrade athletically. EKU probably would have some interest. Murray State actually is attractive but is really far to the west and probably not an option for that reason.

Though in principle I'm not a fan of basketball-only schools, Belmont would be an interesting option. It is easy to get to, being in Nashville, and has a serious basketball program. It's hard to say whether they'd be interested (obviously not if Davidson and CoC left).

[CID1990]

If Elon gets an invite from the CAA, which I'm not sure will happen, I guess I could see them going due to the fact that 46% of the student body, (future alumni), is from CAA states. It would surprise me, however, if Elon were to move. My impression is that the school is satisfied with membership in the SoCon. Regardless of whether Elon moves or not, I think with ASU and GSU intending to go FBS, the SoCon should be proactive in recruiting new members. Whether the SoCon will invite Coastal is anyone's best guess, but it seems like Coastal would be a perfect fit.

CCU is no more a good fit than ASU was back in the day, which among other factors was why Richmond and W&M left in the first place.

SC State would be a significantly better fit, as would W&M or Richmond although it would take a breakup of the CAA for that to happen. VMI will come back and even Presbyterian and Gardner Webb would get a sniff before CCU gets the invite.

[AppMan]

CCU is no more a good fit than ASU was back in the day, which among other factors was why Richmond and W&M left in the first place.

SC State would be a significantly better fit, as would W&M or Richmond although it would take a breakup of the CAA for that to happen. VMI will come back and even Presbyterian and Gardner Webb would get a sniff before CCU gets the invite.

If you are going to state something as fact please get it right. Richmond left in 1976 and W&M in 1977. ASU had been in the league since 1971. They left over to the admittance of Marshall, Western and UTC who were announced in 1976 and came on board in 1977. They did NOT leave because of ASU. As for who will replace Charleston, Davidson and possibly Elon. SC State has far too many issues from a funding standpoint to be considered. VMI couldn't compete before and are having just as hard of a time doing so in the Big South. GW & PC, please... Liberty would be an obvious choice as would CCU.

[CID1990]

If you are going to state something as fact please get it right. Richmond left in 1976 and W&M in 1977. ASU had been in the league since 1971. They left over to the admittance of Marshall, Western and UTC who were announced in 1976 and came on board in 1977. They did NOT leave because of ASU. As for who will replace Charleston, Davidson and possibly Elon. SC State has far too many issues from a funding standpoint to be considered. VMI couldn't compete before and are having just as hard of a time doing so in the Big South. GW & PC, please... Liberty would be an obvious choice as would CCU.

I am fully aware of the timelines involved, Appman. I had family on the board of regents (or whatever they call it at Richmond) and believe me me when I say the ball started rolling with ASU and the writing was on the wall at the point they were admitted. Marshall coming in was just confirmation for Richmond as to the direction the conference was going and wound up being the last straw. Like I said (but you apparently kicked into defensive mode before reading it all), there were a number of factors involved, but the admittance of what Richmond and W&M considered to be inferior schools was what prompted them to seek better (in their opinions) company. You tell me: what school was the oddball in 1971... the school that resembled UTC and Marshall much more closely than it resembled Furman, Richmond, or W&M?

[CID1990]

Oh, and who gives a crap who replaces cofc and Davidson? "Associate" schools that dont play football arent worth tits on a bull. Let them go play basketball in CUSA for all U care.

[elcid83]

My two cents worth. If the Southern Conference was going to admit Coastal Carolina they would have done so when they decided to bring in Samford. If you have ever been to Samford, you would know that it is a lot like Furman and nothing like Coastal. If anyone thinks SC State gets invited to the Southern Conference, you are sadly mistaken. With their low academic requirements they are able to recruit D-I level recruits who cannot qualify academically at South Carolina or Clemson. I believe the Southern Conference is anxious to get rid of App State and Georgia Southern so they can concentrate on academically strong schools.

I don't see VMI being invited back after being so non-competitive for so long and then not being competitive in the Big South. Gardner-Webb is more likely than PC since GW already competes in the Southern Conference in wrestling. Stony Brook and Libery are moving up in the near future. All of this analysis changes if there is behind the scenes conference realignment which would not surprise me at all.

Go Runnin' Bulldogs!

[CID1990]

My two cents worth. If the Southern Conference was going to admit Coastal Carolina they would have done so when they decided to bring in Samford. If you have ever been to Samford, you would know that it is a lot like Furman and nothing like Coastal. If anyone thinks SC State gets invited to the Southern Conference, you are sadly mistaken. With their low academic requirements they are able to recruit D-I level recruits who cannot qualify academically at South Carolina or Clemson. I believe the Southern Conference is anxious to get rid of App State and Georgia Southern so they can concentrate on academically strong schools.

I don't see VMI being invited back after being so non-competitive for so long and then not being competitive in the Big South. Gardner-Webb is more likely than PC since GW already competes in the Southern Conference in wrestling. Stony Brook and Libery are moving up in the near future. All of this analysis changes if there is behind the scenes conference realignment which would not surprise me at all.

Go Runnin' Bulldogs!

I agree with you on the academics with SCSU, but in this day and age there are things other than academics that are taken into consideration. If this were not the case, then we would not be having discussions about whether or not schools like GSU will go up, because they would not be in the SoCon in the first place. SCSU is a good fit because of geography only. Add to that they are a HBCU, and now it's a feel-goid story about unicorns and rainbows. They will get a look long before CCU. VMI will get a sniff because of their history and the presence of El Cid. If the SoCon is looking, I guarantee you that they will look in three states: NC, VA and SC. That means GW almost certainly, either VMI or W&M (VMI being more likely.... they know they screwed up going to the BS) and either SCSU or PC.

Its got nothing to do with academics. The conference threw THAT baby out with the bathwater in the 70s.

[asumike83]

My two cents worth. If the Southern Conference was going to admit Coastal Carolina they would have done so when they decided to bring in Samford. If you have ever been to Samford, you would know that it is a lot like Furman and nothing like Coastal. If anyone thinks SC State gets invited to the Southern Conference, you are sadly mistaken. With their low academic requirements they are able to recruit D-I level recruits who cannot qualify academically at South Carolina or Clemson. I believe the Southern Conference is anxious to get rid of App State and Georgia Southern so they can concentrate on academically strong schools.

I don't see VMI being invited back after being so non-competitive for so long and then not being competitive in the Big South. Gardner-Webb is more likely than PC since GW already competes in the Southern Conference in wrestling. Stony Brook and Libery are moving up in the near future. All of this analysis changes if there is behind the scenes conference realignment which would not surprise me at all.

Go Runnin' Bulldogs!

Appalachian compares very favorably to Gardner-Webb, no need to knock our academics.

Appalachian State: #10 Regional University (South) (http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/appalachian-state-university-2906)

Gardner Webb: #47 Regional University (South) (http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/gardner-webb-university-2929)

[EKU-n-GSU]

Does Kennesaw State have solid plans to play football? I thought they ran into some roadblocks and had to delay but I could be wrong.

KSU had their first 'spring' football practice sessions in April, an inter-squad game, and are expecting to compete in 7 or 8 'club' games this fall. Their first real season will be 2014. The son of one of my work cohorts is the PK and punter. To your point web searches aren't showing anything solid but I believe they are moving forward, based on my co-worker's feedback.

[EKU-n-GSU]

My two cents worth. If the Southern Conference was going to admit Coastal Carolina they would have done so when they decided to bring in Samford. If you have ever been to Samford, you would know that it is a lot like Furman and nothing like Coastal. If anyone thinks SC State gets invited to the Southern Conference, you are sadly mistaken. With their low academic requirements they are able to recruit D-I level recruits who cannot qualify academically at South Carolina or Clemson. I believe the Southern Conference is anxious to get rid of App State and Georgia Southern so they can concentrate on academically strong schools.

I don't see VMI being invited back after being so non-competitive for so long and then not being competitive in the Big South. Gardner-Webb is more likely than PC since GW already competes in the Southern Conference in wrestling. Stony Brook and Libery are moving up in the near future. All of this analysis changes if there is behind the scenes conference realignment which would not surprise me at all.

Go Runnin' Bulldogs!

Not sure where the 'academically strong schools' notion comes from. I can't speak for ASU, but GSU had 40 players on the Dean's List (3.0 or higher) last fall and this spring, and 7 on the President's List (4.0). The football program has a higher cumulative GPA than the student body...as the case (I suspect) at a good number of universities today, what with all of the scrutiny over budgets, scholaraships, and the like. You could make a case for the SoCon keeping the team and kicking the student body(ies) to the curb...

[Saint3333]

App academics dragging down the conference - try that spin elsewhere citadel fans this is 2012 not 1971.

[ASUMountaineer]

Appalachian compares very favorably to Gardner-Webb, no need to knock our academics.

Appalachian State: #10 Regional University (South) (http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/appalachian-state-university-2906)

Gardner Webb: #47 Regional University (South) (http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/gardner-webb-university-2929)

You know it's a good argument when posters on a football message board start talking smack about academics. xcoolx

[Apphole]

My two cents worth. If the Southern Conference was going to admit Coastal Carolina they would have done so when they decided to bring in Samford. If you have ever been to Samford, you would know that it is a lot like Furman and nothing like Coastal. If anyone thinks SC State gets invited to the Southern Conference, you are sadly mistaken. With their low academic requirements they are able to recruit D-I level recruits who cannot qualify academically at South Carolina or Clemson. I believe the Southern Conference is anxious to get rid of App State and Georgia Southern so they can concentrate on academically strong schools.

I don't see VMI being invited back after being so non-competitive for so long and then not being competitive in the Big South. Gardner-Webb is more likely than PC since GW already competes in the Southern Conference in wrestling. Stony Brook and Libery are moving up in the near future. All of this analysis changes if there is behind the scenes conference realignment which would not surprise me at all.

Go Runnin' Bulldogs!

Might want to google admission standards ect before you start babbling about academics xlolx

ASU is VERY competitive academically, especially within NC. Second only to UNC is admission standards in public NC schools.

[youwouldno]

I'm not a big believer in college rankings, but looking at them does help explain the makeup of a conference:

US News Category and Ranking/SoCon

National Universities
UNC-G: #190
GSU: unranked

National Liberal Arts
Davidson: #11
Furman: #42
Wofford: #64

Regional Universities (South)
Elon: #2
Samford: #4
Citadel: #5
App St.: #10
CoC: #11
WCU: #32
UTC: #51
______________________

Though things are getting jumbled up more these days, in general conferences tend to consist of peer institutions. So the likely targets of the SoCon will generally have similar characteristics to the existing members. Some possible present or future targets with their category/rank:

SC State: National, #150
ETSU: National, unranked
Belmont: Regional (South), #7
Murray St: Regional (South), #25
Hampton: Regional (South), #29
Tenn. Tech: Regional (South), #39
Gardner-Webb: Regional (South), #47
Coastal Carolina: Regional (South), #59
Eastern Kentucky: Regional (South), #63
Jacksonville St.: Regional (South), #85

[asumike83]

I'm not a big believer in college rankings, but looking at them does help explain the makeup of a conference:

US News Category and Ranking/SoCon

National Universities
UNC-G: #190
GSU: unranked

National Liberal Arts
Davidson: #11
Furman: #42
Wofford: #64

Regional Universities (South)
Elon: #2
Samford: #4
Citadel: #5
App St.: #10
CoC: #11
WCU: #32
UTC: #51
______________________

Though things are getting jumbled up more these days, in general conferences tend to consist of peer institutions. So the likely targets of the SoCon will generally have similar characteristics to the existing members. Some possible present or future targets with their category/rank:

SC State: National, #150
ETSU: National, unranked
Belmont: Regional (South), #7
Murray St: Regional (South), #25
Hampton: Regional (South), #29
Tenn. Tech: Regional (South), #39
Gardner-Webb: Regional (South), #47
Coastal Carolina: Regional (South), #59
Eastern Kentucky: Regional (South), #63
Jacksonville St.: Regional (South), #85

I certainly do not think college rankings are the be-all and end-all either but it is a reference point. Pretty impressive that the SoCon has 5 of the top 11 Regional Universities in the South.

[fc97]

appalachians academics are not just fine but pretty dang good

look at the us news list, its just stats, but paints a fair picture of the truth. appalachian is right up there with the best of the south

[AppMan]

Yes I went into defense mode. Being at ASU when all this was going down (Sr Sports Director of the campus radio station), I got fed up by all the elitist remarks being made by those at UR and W&M towards ASU and the other schools being brought in. If they wanted to leave, fine. Why their administrations had to ridicule the schools who were VOTED on and APPROVED by the membership, the vast majority being small, private or private type, high academic schools, was low class. ASU had one vote out of eight. If Richmond and W&M were unhappy with the invasion on their little society group by these regional state universities they should have mustered together with The Citadel, Davidson, Furman & VMI to block their admission. Considering ECU had been in the league since 1964 shouldn't they get the blame for starting the ball rolling towards state universities?

I hope the league doesn't replace Davidson or Charleston. Matter of fact I'd like to see UNCG encouraged to seek a new home as well. The concern of the SoCon leadewrship should be what happens if the real possibility of Elon moving to the CAA and Furman following along? With the knowledge ASU amd GSU are short term members, the very real future appears to be a merger with the Big South.

[fc97]

so, the comments you are making about w&m and richmond applies the same to gsu and appalachian today?

[asumike83]

appalachians academics are not just fine but pretty dang good

look at the us news list, its just stats, but paints a fair picture of the truth. appalachian is right up there with the best of the south

Thanks. I knew you liked us just a little bit. xlolx

[GlassOnion]

Just came out today.

BOONE, N.C. – Appalachian State University saw 157 student-athletes named to the Spring 2012 Academic Honor Roll on Thursday.

A total of 203 students, including student athletic managers, trainers and cheerleaders were named to the list, which recognizes those who earned at least a 3.25 grade point average during the Spring semester while enrolled full-time.

Appalachian women's track and field & cross country led the way with 18 student-athletes on the list while men's soccer had 17 of its members recognized.

As a whole, the Mountaineers had 22 student-athletes earn a perfect 4.0 GPA last semester.

http://www.goasu.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=21500&ATCLID=205437271

[youwouldno]

I certainly do not think college rankings are the be-all and end-all either but it is a reference point. Pretty impressive that the SoCon has 5 of the top 11 Regional Universities in the South.

The rankings are even better than they look on the surface because only a minority of universities are D-I. For instance, in the National Liberal Arts category, Davidson is the #1 ranked school to belong to D-I; of the top 75, the only D-I members are three military academies, four PL members, three SoCon members, and Richmond, which is an A-10 member that plays CAA football.

Among scholarship FCS schools in the South region, the SoCon has #1, #2, #3, and #5 (#4 is JMU).

This is not an accident. Fans look at public vs. private, enrollment, etc., but that is secondary for the universities' leadership. A lot of people don't get that and saw Samford's entry as some kind of small school triumph. If the SoCon looks to add more members, either preemptively or reactively, the main criteria will be geography, academics, and resources available for athletics.

[spdram]

Yes I went into defense mode. Being at ASU when all this was going down (Sr Sports Director of the campus radio station), I got fed up by all the elitist remarks being made by those at UR and W&M towards ASU and the other schools being brought in. If they wanted to leave, fine. Why their administrations had to ridicule the schools who were VOTED on and APPROVED by the membership, the vast majority being small, private or private type, high academic schools, was low class. ASU had one vote out of eight. If Richmond and W&M were unhappy with the invasion on their little society group by these regional state universities they should have mustered together with The Citadel, Davidson, Furman & VMI to block their admission. Considering ECU had been in the league since 1964 shouldn't they get the blame for starting the ball rolling towards state universities?

I hope the league doesn't replace Davidson or Charleston. Matter of fact I'd like to see UNCG encouraged to seek a new home as well. The concern of the SoCon leadewrship should be what happens if the real possibility of Elon moving to the CAA and Furman following along? With the knowledge ASU amd GSU are short term members, the very real future appears to be a merger with the Big South.

Not sure how UR and W&M got into this argument, but get your facts straight. UR left the SoCon in 1976 when UR was trying to remain D-1A in football (D-1AA started in 1978 and the handwriting was on the wall). We went Independent and remained so in football from 1976 to 1984 when we were forced into D-1AA because we could not meet their attendance requirements. (remember we are only 2,900 students). We had been independent in all other sports from 1976 to 1979 when we went ECAC South (which became the CAA). I believe W&M was trying the same route but went D-1AA before we did.

[CID1990]

Yes I went into defense mode. Being at ASU when all this was going down (Sr Sports Director of the campus radio station), I got fed up by all the elitist remarks being made by those at UR and W&M towards ASU and the other schools being brought in. If they wanted to leave, fine. Why their administrations had to ridicule the schools who were VOTED on and APPROVED by the membership, the vast majority being small, private or private type, high academic schools, was low class. ASU had one vote out of eight. If Richmond and W&M were unhappy with the invasion on their little society group by these regional state universities they should have mustered together with The Citadel, Davidson, Furman & VMI to block their admission. Considering ECU had been in the league since 1964 shouldn't they get the blame for starting the ball rolling towards state universities?

I hope the league doesn't replace Davidson or Charleston. Matter of fact I'd like to see UNCG encouraged to seek a new home as well. The concern of the SoCon leadewrship should be what happens if the real possibility of Elon moving to the CAA and Furman following along? With the knowledge ASU amd GSU are short term members, the very real future appears to be a merger with the Big South.

Aside from the other ASU fans on here who are sort of making a case for poor reading comprehension (i.e.: posting academic data, saying this is 2012 not 1971, etc etc etc), you are correct. Richmond and W&M objected to the admission of ASU when it happened, and this (AMONG OTHER FACTORS) was what prompted them to leave eventually. It is difficult to make a case that UR would somehow be fine with ASU but not WCU or UTC.

Personally, I have always liked ASU being in the conference, and having lots of family who went (and currently go) there, I know what the score is.

Back on track: if ASU and GSU go up to FBS, and the CAA sees a reshuffle, it is entirely plausible that UR and/or W&M could seek a home elsewhere, and the SoCon could be a good fit for them. Period.

[phoenix3]

I agree with you on the academics with SCSU, but in this day and age there are things other than academics that are taken into consideration. If this were not the case, then we would not be having discussions about whether or not schools like GSU will go up, because they would not be in the SoCon in the first place. SCSU is a good fit because of geography only. Add to that they are a HBCU, and now it's a feel-goid story about unicorns and rainbows. They will get a look long before CCU. VMI will get a sniff because of their history and the presence of El Cid. If the SoCon is looking, I guarantee you that they will look in three states: NC, VA and SC. That means GW almost certainly, either VMI or W&M (VMI being more likely.... they know they screwed up going to the BS) and either SCSU or PC.

Its got nothing to do with academics. The conference threw THAT baby out with the bathwater in the 70s.

And that is the reason SCSU will never leave the MEAC. They will lose too much including their HBC benefits if they do.

Regarding Elon and the SoCon and CAA, With ASU going to FBS that only leaves one FCS power conference school in North Carolina - Elon. So, North Carolina is a "Swing State" of sorts regarding the CAA and the SoCon. Elon's current enrollment is 5,916. 25% of our undergraduates come from NC. MD, MA and NJ contribute 8% each. 7% come from VA. CT, PA and NY contribute 5% each and FL contributes 4%. The rest are dispursed across the country in lesser percentages. Assuming ASU goes to the FBS and Elon gets an invite to the CAA and goes, North Carolina will no longer be a SoCon football state. At that point 71% of our student body, (future alumni), will hail from CAA states. So, could I see Elon moving to the CAA if we got an invite? Of course, and I would expect we'd be just as happy in the CAA as in the SoCon if not more. But again, I'm not sure we have or will get an invite, and the relative stability of the conferences will certainly play a part if the invite comes.

[asumike83]

Aside from the other ASU fans on here who are sort of making a case for poor reading comprehension (i.e.: posting academic data, saying this is 2012 not 1971, etc etc etc)


Posting the academic data was not in response to you but the poster who said the SoCon is anxious to be rid of us so they can get "academically strong schools". That is why I quoted his post and put that line in bold type. Talk about poor reading comprehension.

[ASUMountaineer]

And that is the reason SCSU will never leave the MEAC. They will lose too much including their HBC benefits if they do.

Regarding Elon and the SoCon and CAA, With ASU going to FBS that only leaves one FCS power conference school in North Carolina - Elon. So, North Carolina is a "Swing State" of sorts regarding the CAA and the SoCon. Elon's current enrollment is 5,916. 25% of our undergraduates come from NC. MD, MA and NJ contribute 8% each. 7% come from VA. CT, PA and NY contribute 5% each and FL contributes 4%. The rest are dispursed across the country in lesser percentages. Assuming ASU goes to the FBS and Elon gets an invite to the CAA and goes, North Carolina will no longer be a SoCon football state. At that point 71% of our student body, (future alumni), will hail from CAA states. So, could I see Elon moving to the CAA if we got an invite? Of course, and I would expect we'd be just as happy in the CAA as in the SoCon if not more. But again, I'm not sure we have or will get an invite, and the relative stability of the conferences will certainly play a part if the invite comes.

I know Western Carolina football is an afterthought, but they are in NC. So, assuming ASU does go FBS, that would leave Elon and WCU as schools in a FCS power conference.

[phoenix3]

Dammit. My bad WCU. You'll probably make me eat those words this fall too! 2012 doesn't look to be shaping up too well for us.

[asumike83]

Dammit. My bad WCU. You'll probably make me eat those words this fall too! 2012 doesn't look to be shaping up too well for us.

As long as you guys have Mellette, the offense will be formidable. That kid is the best receiver I've ever seen in person at the FCS level.

[jpincince]

phoenix3, why do you say 2012 doesn't look to be shaping up well?

[CID1990]

Posting the academic data was not in response to you but the poster who said the SoCon is anxious to be rid of us so they can get "academically strong schools". That is why I quoted his post and put that line in bold type. Talk about poor reading comprehension.

How do you think we got on the topic of academics at ASU to begin with, Easy Reader?

[phoenix3]

phoenix3, why do you say 2012 doesn't look to be shaping up well?

Because I like to sandbag then gloat when we do really well.

[asumike83]

How do you think we got on the topic of academics at ASU to begin with, Easy Reader?

What difference does it make how it came up? It was the topic being discussed for several posts before mine and I gave my input.

The academic data I posted, which prompted you to question my reading comprehension, was a direct response to another post. I read it, comprehended it and replied. I will try to be more clear next time.

[fc97]

i know why

we have a turnover machine at qb

and i am not sure we have any running backs

[fc97]

i also assumed what you did asumike, it sounded like the citadel fan was saying appalachian and gsu departure was going to open it up to let good academic schools to replace something lesser, i read it that way too

[jpincince]

i know why

we have a turnover machine at qb

and i am not sure we have any running backs

Certainly can't argue that he didn't turn the ball over a lot. But, if you look at the whole season, I think it got a little better, particularly the last few games in which he completed 74% for 321 yards/game with 9 TD and 4 INT versus Wofford, Furman and App St. I think with a year under his belt he'll be less turnover-prone, but we shall see.

Here are the running backs on the roster as of today:

10 Karl Bostick RB 5-9 201 So. Englewood, N.J. / Univ. of Akron
22 Tracey Coppedge RB 5-8 170 Fr. Nashville, N.C. / Southern Nash
33 B.J. Bennett RB 6-0 205 Fr. West Columbia, S.C. / Hammond School
40 Matt Eastman RB 6-1 231 Jr. Tampa, Fla. / Armwood

[asumike83]

i also assumed what you did asumike, it sounded like the citadel fan was saying appalachian and gsu departure was going to open it up to let good academic schools to replace something lesser, i read it that way too

Uh oh, that is twice we've agreed in one day! xlolx

Honestly, I just didn't think there was much room for interpretation or a need to explain why I posted academic data about Appalachian. The statement was "I believe the Southern Conference is anxious to get rid of App State and Georgia Southern so they can concentrate on academically strong schools". If that is not clearly stating that he thinks Appalachian is weak academically, then I'd love to know what he meant.

[ASUMountaineer]

Dammit. My bad WCU. You'll probably make me eat those words this fall too! 2012 doesn't look to be shaping up too well for us.

Every now and then I find something! HA!

[phoenix3]

Certainly can't argue that he didn't turn the ball over a lot. But, if you look at the whole season, I think it got a little better, particularly the last few games in which he completed 74% for 321 yards/game with 9 TD and 4 INT versus Wofford, Furman and App St. I think with a year under his belt he'll be less turnover-prone, but we shall see.

Here are the running backs on the roster as of today:

10 Karl Bostick RB 5-9 201 So. Englewood, N.J. / Univ. of Akron
22 Tracey Coppedge RB 5-8 170 Fr. Nashville, N.C. / Southern Nash
33 B.J. Bennett RB 6-0 205 Fr. West Columbia, S.C. / Hammond School
40 Matt Eastman RB 6-1 231 Jr. Tampa, Fla. / Armwood

By your name I assume you know a lot about the "O". So, how do you think things are shaping up? Will the up & coming Oline do a good job replacing the losses from last year? I think we're stacked at WR & we're not really known for our running game anyway. On O what concerns me most is Wilson being rushed. I hope he's quicker at reading the D and his receivers. Also, how about D? Is the D line shored up?

[CoastalFan2005]

I think it's correct to say that hosting the basketball tourney doesn't necessarily tie you into Big South membership. But I wouldn't assume the Big South tourney will still come to CCU if they bolt for another conference. CUSA just moved their 2013 tournament from Memphis to Tulsa now that Memphis is headed to the Big East.

Maybe, but no other bids for the Big South tourneys offered a name sponsorship. VisitMyrtleBeach.com offered somewhere in the neighborhood of $100k for the naming rights on both the men's & women's tourneys. No other bid for hosting was anywhere close - so I doubt the Big South turns down that much $$$ just because CCU leaves.

The tourneys may very well leave CCU and move 10 miles down the road to the Myrtle Beach Convention Center - but I sincerely doubt they'll leave the area entirely before the current deal expires.

[CoastalFan2005]

CCU is no more a good fit than ASU was back in the day, which among other factors was why Richmond and W&M left in the first place.

SC State would be a significantly better fit, as would W&M or Richmond although it would take a breakup of the CAA for that to happen. VMI will come back and even Presbyterian and Gardner Webb would get a sniff before CCU gets the invite.

Uhh...

http://cdn2.holytaco.com/wp-content/uploads/images/2009/12/1274465753023.gif

What?

You do realize that SCSU is just about in as much disarray as a University can be (http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/charleston/is-sc-state-universitys-board-of-trustees-really-so-bad/Content?oid=4080800) before the cops get called, right?

And, come on...Gardner-Webb & Presbyterian over Coastal? Hell, why doesn't the SoCon just invite Longwood before us, too, they're a MUCH stronger candidate. xnutsx

[jpincince]

By your name I assume you know a lot about the "O". So, how do you think things are shaping up? Will the up & coming Oline do a good job replacing the losses from last year? I think we're stacked at WR & we're not really known for our running game anyway. On O what concerns me most is Wilson being rushed. I hope he's quicker at reading the D and his receivers. Also, how about D? Is the D line shored up?

No, I don't know much. But I'm hopeful. Saw enough good things last year and have enough confidence in the returning guys and the coaching staff to be optimistic. Have to admit I don't know anything about the new guys, although I think the transfer RB Bostick could be a good fit based on what he looks like in his clips online.

[asumike83]

In looking at recent history, Coastal football and basketball have both been improving while their baseball is consistently strong. I think they would add a lot to the SoCon.

Football
2007: 5-6
2008: 6-6
2009: 5-6
2010: 6-6 (L, 1st round playoffs)
2011: 7-4

Men's Basketball
2008: 13-15
2009: 11-20
2010: 28-7 (NIT 1st round)
2011: 28-6 (NIT 1st round)
2012: 19-12 (CIT 1st round)

Baseball
2008: 50-14 (NCAA Super Regional)
2009: 47-16 (NCAA Regional)
2010: 55-10 (NCAA Super Regional)
2011: 42-20 (NCAA Regional)
2012: 42-19 (NCAA Regional)

[CID1990]

Uhh...

http://cdn2.holytaco.com/wp-content/uploads/images/2009/12/1274465753023.gif

What?

You do realize that SCSU is just about in as much disarray as a University can be (http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/charleston/is-sc-state-universitys-board-of-trustees-really-so-bad/Content?oid=4080800) before the cops get called, right?

And, come on...Gardner-Webb & Presbyterian over Coastal? Hell, why doesn't the SoCon just invite Longwood before us, too, they're a MUCH stronger candidate. xnutsx

Wow,thanks! I hadn't thought of Longwood. They would also be a better fit.

[fc97]

asumike, i may have my differences with lots of appalachian fans, but im not overly unreasonable :)

maybe can make more agreements this week and make the world come to an end, ha

also, the merits of coastal are worth it on the surface for sports. however there is a problem. although elon, appalachian and western supported coastal when samford was admitted, the south carolina schools did not. it wasnt just a academics and admissions thing, which are below the socon schools or the ncaa sanctions in the 90s, it was that the south carolina market is already saturated.

losing, elon, appalachian, georgia southern, utc or whoever is not going to help the fact that coastal is in a market already dominated by the conference. the same with sc state. i'd bet kennesaw state would be added before coastal or north alabama, tennesse tech, hampton, vmi or william and mary.

[asumike83]

That is a good point, one that I believe I've heard from the Furman folks as well. It is likely not so much the admissions or public vs. private but the SC members not wanting another in-state school in the conference when so many are already there. Maybe if Charleston does end up in the CAA that would change? They would provide a solid replacement for the baseball/basketball that would be lost with Charleston and also provide football.

It will be interesting to see what happens. I just hope the SoCon does not add a member who brings less to the table from a competitive standpoint just for the sake of not adding another school in SC.

[GATA_Eagles]

That is a good point, one that I believe I've heard from the Furman folks as well. It is likely not so much the admissions or public vs. private but the SC members not wanting another in-state school in the conference when so many are already there. Maybe if Charleston does end up in the CAA that would change? They would provide a solid replacement for the baseball/basketball that would be lost with Charleston and also provide football.

It will be interesting to see what happens. I just hope the SoCon does not add a member who brings less to the table from a competitive standpoint just for the sake of not adding another school in SC.

Names I've heard from GA are both Kennesaw and Mercer. They both start up football soon...but I hear Kennesaw wants the southland xlolx


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSII_aF15DI

[TheRevSFA]

Kennesaw wants in the Southland?

[asumike83]

Names I've heard from GA are both Kennesaw and Mercer. They both start up football soon...but I hear Kennesaw wants the southland xlolx


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSII_aF15DI

Mercer is a somewhat interesting candidate, I suppose. Strong academics, 38+ wins in baseball the past three years and 27 wins in basketball last season. Either school will struggle from the start with football. Kennesaw State has potential but the last thing the SoCon needs right now is a team who has won 11 basketball games over the past two seasons and is coming off a 3-win season. If the rumored deflections occur, our basketball will already be suffering.

[AppMan]

so, the comments you are making about w&m and richmond applies the same to gsu and appalachian today?

Nope. Apples to oranges. I guess you could spin it ASU isn't happy with the direction towards small, private and private like institutions. But the reality is ASU's beef is with FCS football, not the SoCon.

[AppMan]

Aside from the other ASU fans on here who are sort of making a case for poor reading comprehension (i.e.: posting academic data, saying this is 2012 not 1971, etc etc etc), you are correct. Richmond and W&M objected to the admission of ASU when it happened, and this (AMONG OTHER FACTORS) was what prompted them to leave eventually. It is difficult to make a case that UR would somehow be fine with ASU but not WCU or UTC.

Personally, I have always liked ASU being in the conference, and having lots of family who went (and currently go) there, I know what the score is.

Back on track: if ASU and GSU go up to FBS, and the CAA sees a reshuffle, it is entirely plausible that UR and/or W&M could seek a home elsewhere, and the SoCon could be a good fit for them. Period.

W&M and Richmond could tolerate ASU & ECU because the small guys still had the power in voting. Once WCU, Marshall, and UTC entered the picture the game changed and they decided to hit the trail. I guess each school has different perceptions of the situation, but I was extremely involved with it during my days at ASU and vividly remember all the remarks being tossed around by the old guard. I don't blame them for being upset with what was happeneing. I do believe there is some validity to the idea Richond wanted to leave, in part, because they wanted to remain 1A. However, they seriously underestimated the changes coming to the college football landscape and it ultimately burned them.

[GATA_Eagles]

Kennesaw wants in the Southland?

It was a jab at their fight song

[youwouldno]

I think the South Carolina aspect is overblown with respect to Coastal. It's a 4 1/2 hour drive to the nearest SoCon football schools- Furman, Wofford, and GSU all being roughly the same distance. CCU already recruits in SC and has a decent enough program. There are other reasons the SoCon hasn't been knocking on the door.

[cbarrier90]

Mercer is a somewhat interesting candidate, I suppose. Strong academics, 38+ wins in baseball the past three years and 27 wins in basketball last season.

And I'd love nothing more than to see Bobby Lamb back home in the SoCon...

[hapapp]

In looking at recent history, Coastal football and basketball have both been improving while their baseball is consistently strong. I think they would add a lot to the SoCon.

Football
2007: 5-6
2008: 6-6
2009: 5-6
2010: 6-6 (L, 1st round playoffs)
2011: 7-4

Men's Basketball
2008: 13-15
2009: 11-20
2010: 28-7 (NIT 1st round)
2011: 28-6 (NIT 1st round)
2012: 19-12 (CIT 1st round)

Baseball
2008: 50-14 (NCAA Super Regional)
2009: 47-16 (NCAA Regional)
2010: 55-10 (NCAA Super Regional)
2011: 42-20 (NCAA Regional)
2012: 42-19 (NCAA Regional)

I know you are focusing on those three sports, but their soccer program is also very strong and have been nationally ranked. I believe when ASU beat this past season they were nationally ranked at the time.

[TheRevSFA]

It was a jab at their fight song

They have a fight song? :D

[asumike83]

I know you are focusing on those three sports, but their soccer program is also very strong and have been nationally ranked. I believe when ASU beat this past season they were nationally ranked at the time.

I don't follow college soccer (or any soccer, for that matter) very closely, did not realize they had such a strong program. That is great though, a well-rounded athletics program is always good. I know there are other factors at play but from a fan's perspective and who I would like to see on the schedule, Coastal gets my vote.

[asumike83]

And I'd love nothing more than to see Bobby Lamb back home in the SoCon...

I had no idea he was leading the Mercer football revival. Go for two! :D

[CoastalFan2005]

Wow,thanks! I hadn't thought of Longwood. They would also be a better fit.

http://cdn.avsforum.com/f/fd/fd09191e_363-bruce-willis-cool-story-bro-image.png

[CID1990]

Any conference that wants cofc or Davidson is welcome to them.

[RadioFan]

Take UNCG with them.

[Redbirdz]

Jacksonville State would be a good fit but I would guess they are no longer interested.

[Saint3333]

Any conference that wants cofc or Davidson is welcome to them.

What a stupid comment how does that help the SoCon? There is no one out there that could be added that would replace what they bring. The SoCon is in danger of becoming the big south In the next 5 years.

[youwouldno]

Non-scholarship football schools have an unfair advantage in other sports, particularly the only other one that really counts (men's basketball). But a conference like the SoCon has to work with what's available.

It is unfortunate the conference is just sort of sitting around. An aggressive expansion strategy could pay huge dividends.

[Saint3333]

Non-scholarship football schools have an unfair advantage in other sports, particularly the only other one that really counts (men's basketball). But a conference like the SoCon has to work with what's available.

It is unfortunate the conference is just sort of sitting around. An aggressive expansion strategy could pay huge dividends.

No one that has been paying attention to SoCon leadership should be surprised with the lack of leadership and vision regarding this.

[fc97]

can i suggest you read

the conference schools voted by a majority to do nothing at this time. the socon administration recommended to expand, but the schools themselves voted it down. reports state that elon and charleston were swing votes in the matter and abstained, while georgia southern and appalachian voted no.

interesting that the definite we want to leave groups voted no to the conference being proactive when they have no place to go, and the two less reported in richmond to be leaving are the ones who didn't want to vote.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

What a stupid comment how does that help the SoCon? There is no one out there that could be added that would replace what they bring. The SoCon is in danger of becoming the big south In the next 5 years.

I agree with you on Davidson, CofC not so much. SoCon baseball is plenty strong enough that we can do without their baseball team and their basketball is decent but replaceable. Honestly, I'd rather lose CofC's basketball program than lose Chatty's.

[whitey]

Andy Katz is reporting (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy) that the CAA has College of Charleston, Davidson, Elon and Furman on a "lengthy list" of expansion candidates. Also mentions Stony Brook but notes that the SBU AD said they aren't looking to move. He also confirms that the CAA has visited Davidson's campus but did note that a formal invite wasn't given and speculates that Davidson might not even accept if it was.


CAA commissioner Tom Yeager is actively looking at expansion and, according to Davidson coach Bob McKillop, was on the Charlotte-area campus. But no formal offer was given, and it's unclear if Davidson would accept since it is comfortable in the Southern Conference. The CAA is also looking at Charleston and, according to sources, Furman and Elon are on a lengthy list. However, Stony Brook makes the most sense if it wants to link up its northern teams with Hofstra.

[asumike83]

Andy Katz is reporting (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy) that the CAA has College of Charleston, Davidson, Elon and Furman on a "lengthy list" of expansion candidates. Also mentions Stony Brook but notes that the SBU AD said they aren't looking to move. He also confirms that the CAA has visited Davidson's campus but did note that a formal invite wasn't given and speculates that Davidson might not even accept if it was.

I don't see Charleston, Davidson, Elon or Furman deciding to make the leap by themselves. I'd expect that they will all either stay put or move together. With Davidson seemingly reluctant to jump ship, that could trickle down and keep all of them in the SoCon but who knows.

[whitey]

Per ‏@CharlestonSport
College of Charleston and their alumni may be looking forward to great news this week. Hearing rumors of #CofC to the #CAA

Where there is smoke?

[whitey]

I don't see Charleston, Davidson, Elon or Furman deciding to make the leap by themselves. I'd expect that they will all either stay put or move together. With Davidson seemingly reluctant to jump ship, that could trickle down and keep all of them in the SoCon but who knows.

I doubt one school would move by themselves too but I could see 2 or 3 making the move. I think the only thing we can actually assume right now is that the CAA is going to add an odd number of teams to bring them from 9 to 10, 12, etc.

[Saint3333]

As predicted the SoCon will be reactive.

[CoastalFan2005]

Andy Katz is reporting (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy) that the CAA has College of Charleston, Davidson, Elon and Furman on a "lengthy list" of expansion candidates. Also mentions Stony Brook but notes that the SBU AD said they aren't looking to move. He also confirms that the CAA has visited Davidson's campus but did note that a formal invite wasn't given and speculates that Davidson might not even accept if it was.

I was just about to post something about Furman leaving the SoCon - a friend retweeted this (https://twitter.com/NCAAsports/status/214810850144419840), which was the first I had heard of it. I think it would be a complete shock to see the Paladins defect to the CAA.

[asumike83]

I was just about to post something about Furman leaving the SoCon - a friend retweeted this (https://twitter.com/NCAAsports/status/214810850144419840), which was the first I had heard of it. I think it would be a complete shock to see the Paladins defect to the CAA.

Would be an absolutely devastating blow to the SoCon if true. Losing Davidson, Charleston, Elon and Furman would hurt the conference in basketball, baseball and football.

[RadioFan]

If that happens the SoCon should look hard at CCU, Tenn Tech, Radford, UNC-A

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

If this is true, are App State and Ga State forced to join the WAC?

[WH49er]

If this is true, are App State and Ga State forced to join the WAC?

This is great on multiple levels xlolxxlolxxlolx

[asumike83]

If this is true, are App State and Ga State forced to join the WAC?

xpopcornx

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

xpopcornx

LOL. Same thing, right? (ducks for incoming)

Sorry, Ga Southern.

By the way, that UNCC helmet in the 49er fan avatar is sweet!

[CID1990]

I cannot figure how some people think Furman is somehow married to Davidson or cofc. Furman wasn't exactly threatening to leave if those two schools didn't join, and they won't leave if those two schools go. Furman gains nothing except a bigger gas bill if they go to the CAA.

[youwouldno]

All the comment said was that various SoCon members are on a "lengthy list" of schools the CAA is interested in. That's pretty obvious and doesn't really qualify as news.

Now, there are some internet rumblings about CoC being a done deal to the CAA. And of course internet rumors are the most reliable kind. Having said that, it does make more sense for a basketball-only school. For football and general travel purposes, it makes no sense for anyone in the SoCon.

Not that I think there is any chance of Furman leaving the conference, but last year the AD was asked if a move could be considered with all the changes going on. I assumed he would give a standard "we're happy as is" but instead was oddly non-committal. I didn't know what to make of it at the time, but I wonder if it reflected concern with the inability of the conference to be proactive.

[AppMan]

I cannot figure how some people think Furman is somehow married to Davidson or cofc. Furman wasn't exactly threatening to leave if those two schools didn't join, and they won't leave if those two schools go. Furman gains nothing except a bigger gas bill if they go to the CAA.

The student bodies of Elon and Furman are polar opposites. Athletics is advertising department of the university and Elon, like Charleston, gets a large % of students from the northeast. It makes perfect sense for them to be in a league that gets them into those markets. Even though Furman attracts students from across the nation, it's student body has a heavy Southern influence.

[AppMan]

All the comment said was that various SoCon members are on a "lengthy list" of schools the CAA is interested in. That's pretty obvious and doesn't really qualify as news.

Now, there are some internet rumblings about CoC being a done deal to the CAA. And of course internet rumors are the most reliable kind. Having said that, it does make more sense for a basketball-only school. For football and general travel purposes, it makes no sense for anyone in the SoCon.

Not that I think there is any chance of Furman leaving the conference, but last year the AD was asked if a move could be considered with all the changes going on. I assumed he would give a standard "we're happy as is" but instead was oddly non-committal. I didn't know what to make of it at the time, but I wonder if it reflected concern with the inability of the conference to be proactive.

A very good source mentioned to me Furman was "interested" in the CAA. The reason given was Furman's concern with who will replace Charleston and Elon. I am told they would not be happy with Presbyterian or Coastal Carolina joining the SoCon.

[fc97]

the word is that invites have gone out. so far three. charleston, stony brook and another that no one is sure of. it isnt davidson. the only other visited schools were bu who went to the patriot and elon.

[CID1990]

A very good source mentioned to me Furman was "interested" in the CAA. The reason given was Furman's concern with who will replace Charleston and Elon. I am told they would not be happy with Presbyterian or Coastal Carolina joining the SoCon.

Now THAT would be a believable scenario, but I think that if any of the SC schools protested against the addition of PC or CCU it would be a deal breaker.

[asumike83]

Now THAT would be a believable scenario, but I think that if any of the SC schools protested against the addition of PC or CCU it would be a deal breaker.

I'm not sure exactly how the process works but if the 4 SC schools were opposed and the 8 non-SC schools supported Coastal (or the 3 SC schools and 7 non-SC if Charleston/Elon deflect), would they get the invite?

[Sandlapper Spike]

I'm not sure exactly how the process works but if the 4 SC schools were opposed and the 8 non-SC schools supported Coastal (or the 3 SC schools and 7 non-SC if Charleston/Elon deflect), would they get the invite?

If 75% of the schools have to agree to bring in a new member, Coastal Carolina would still be one vote short in either scenario. I'm not sure if the number is 75%, though.

Also, there is no guarantee that Samford would vote for Coastal Carolina either.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

If CofC really is leaving (seems more probable than Furman), what does it matter if we bring another SC school in? Would we really bring Tennessee Tech or VMI into the conference before Coastal?

[CID1990]

With the instability in the CAA right now, there is no way CCU gets the invite. This is because leaving for the CAA would become a viable option for at least 1-2 schools. This whole topic is a non-starter.

[Sandlapper Spike]

If CofC really is leaving (seems more probable than Furman), what does it matter if we bring another SC school in? Would we really bring Tennessee Tech or VMI into the conference before Coastal?

That would be the preference of the Palmetto State schools.

[Apps03]

That would be the preference of the Palmetto State schools.

Why?

[alvinkayak6]

I find it comedic that FCS schools want their in-state rivals to join their conferences (for geography & budgetary reasons), while BCS teams like South Carolina don't want their in-state rivals to get any benefit.

[Skjellyfetti]

I find it comedic that FCS schools want their in-state rivals to join their conferences (for geography & budgetary reasons), while BCS teams like South Carolina don't want their in-state rivals to get any benefit.

Their conferences are for making money. Our conferences are for scheduling purposes and not much else.

[realgsu]

Socon should think outside the box. Add a South Carolina St. Then in 2014 add Kennesaw St., who would be a good rival for Ga Southern.

[RadioFan]

Socon should think outside the box. Add a South Carolina St.


I'd like to see S.C. State, Tenn Tech, CCU and perhaps ETSU join the SoCon if Elon, Furman, Davidson and CoC leave.

[realgsu]

Could Valdosta St. move up from Div II?

[asumike83]

While I understand there are some schools that are staunchly against it, I'd love to see Coastal join. They fit geographically, can compete in football/basketball and would more than make up for the loss of Charleston baseball.

[realgsu]

While I understand there are some schools that are staunchly against it, I'd love to see Coastal join. They fit geographically, can compete in football/basketball and would more than make up for the loss of Charleston baseball.

SOCON needs some more Dawgs...no more kitty cats..

[asumike83]

SOCON needs some more Dawgs...no more kitty cats..

You set up the pins, I have no choice but to knock them down!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luUmpQqg71E&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL84348EC27B20213A

The dancing cat is really a nice touch... I could watch that all day.

[AppMan]

I say bring in Jax State and forget the idea of adding any non football schools. Nine schools makes for a perfect for football schedule, ten is good for all other sports and the grouping is good. Three in NC, Three in SC, Two in AL & One in TN which is close to AL.

[RadioFan]

I say bring in Jax State and forget the idea of adding any non football schools. Nine schools makes for a perfect for football schedule, ten is good for all other sports and the grouping is good. Three in NC, Three in SC, Two in AL & One in TN which is close to AL.


Jax State has notions of moving to FBS, so I don't see them moving laterally to the SoCon. Even though it'd be a great get. But if the SoCon does lose all those that are rumored (Furman, Davidson, CoC, Elon) then they'd need two FB schools and two BB schools. I'd love to see CCU and Tenn Tech added for all sports and UNC-A and ETSU/Radford for BBall.

That'd give the SoCon a decent footprint: 4 - NC, 3 - SC, 1 - Alabama, 1 - Georgia, 2-3* - Tennessee, 1* - Virginia

That'd give 12 for BBall and 9 for Football. And the conference will be 95% as strong as before with a lot of room to grow.

[major095]

alabama state wants to move up but they are open to moving to another fcs conference.

[RadioFan]

Alabama State
South Carolina State
Coastal Carolina
Tennessee Tech
Gardner Webb


5 Schools that could be added to get FBall up to 12 teams and BBall at twelve (If they lose the rumored 4 and kick out UNC-G like they did ETSU for not being all sport) I know that's crazy talk.

[OL FU]

I posted on this on cs. The only reason I can think of that might entice Furman's exit.

I guess anything is possible and have no inside knowledge. It seems as if it would be difficult to leave a conference that you have been in since 1936 but I guess the times they are a changin'.

As to Davidson, it is a long time rival although we haven't given them much competition in basketball in 20 years. Still there are long term connections between the two schools in sports and a lot of similarities academically.

The College of Charleston and Elon are rather new participants in SoCon sports. I would imagine that we would be concerned about Charleston leaving mainly if Davidson leaves and the two best bball schools depart the conference. Elon would be another school similar to Furman in size and academics.

It seems to me that Furman's main concern might be the impending departure of ASU and GSU (assuming it ever happens). IF ASU and GSU pull off the move up (the two best football teams leave) and if Davidson and Cof C leave (the two best basketball teams leave), the SoCon might have a real difficult time repairing itself. So, depending on how certain those departures are, Furman might be protecting itself by considering the CAA.

[fc97]

rumors are stating elon, furman, charleston and stony brook only right now

i would be interested to know what the socon meetings were like and how the meetings went and voted

[Saint3333]

I posted on this on cs. The only reason I can think of that might entice Furman's exit.

I guess anything is possible and have no inside knowledge. It seems as if it would be difficult to leave a conference that you have been in since 1936 but I guess the times they are a changin'.

As to Davidson, it is a long time rival although we haven't given them much competition in basketball in 20 years. Still there are long term connections between the two schools in sports and a lot of similarities academically.

The College of Charleston and Elon are rather new participants in SoCon sports. I would imagine that we would be concerned about Charleston leaving mainly if Davidson leaves and the two best bball schools depart the conference. Elon would be another school similar to Furman in size and academics.

It seems to me that Furman's main concern might be the impending departure of ASU and GSU (assuming it ever happens). IF ASU and GSU pull off the move up (the two best football teams leave) and if Davidson and Cof C leave (the two best basketball teams leave), the SoCon might have a real difficult time repairing itself. So, depending on how certain those departures are, Furman might be protecting itself by considering the CAA.

Great post as usual. Moving from the SoCon to the CAA is a proactive move to control your own destiny vs. letting the SoCon control it. Based on the leadership from the SoCon I could understand anyone leaving for the CAA. If App can't get an FBS invite I've said for over a year now that I think we should move to the CAA. This isn't a slam at the members of the SoCon, only a slam of the leadership of the SoCon. I have enjoyed the rivalries with many of the SoCon members.

[Saint3333]

rumors are stating elon, furman, charleston and stony brook only right now

i would be interested to know what the socon meetings were like and how the meetings went and voted

What happened at the SoCon meeting really amounted to nothing, they add a basketball oversight position... which will have no power.

As usual the SoCon will be reactive, while other conferences (like the CAA) go on offense. It is a shame really.

[youwouldno]

I don't think SoCon tenure really matters. It's just a name, really... a conference is ultimately the sum of the current member institutions.

I don't understand why the CAA would want to add 2 basketball-only schools. That would give them 7, whereas they presently have only 4 all-sports members that play football. The conference may be basketball-focused but the low football number presents a major stability risk that negatively effects the league. It seems more logical to add 4 football-playing members and 1 basketball-only, for 12 football members including affiliates (allowing for even-sized divisions) and 14 basketball.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

http://www.southernpigskin.com/SoCon/view/dangerous-times-for-the-socon


There have been plenty of rumors lately about teams leaving the Southern Conference, but shockingly, they do not involve Appalachian State or Georgia Southern, the two teams most often talked about when asked which teams could potentially leave.
It is Elon (member since 2003) and Furman (member since 1936), along with Davidson (member from 1936-1988 and rejoined in 1991) and College of Charleston (member since 1998) that the Colonial Athletic Association is reportedly eyeing as they look to expand. Ironic, since CAA-members William & Mary and Richmond were long considered good choices for the SoCon to go after should they need to expand.

[PaladinFan]

I don't think SoCon tenure really matters. It's just a name, really... a conference is ultimately the sum of the current member institutions.

I don't understand why the CAA would want to add 2 basketball-only schools. That would give them 7, whereas they presently have only 4 all-sports members that play football. The conference may be basketball-focused but the low football number presents a major stability risk that negatively effects the league. It seems more logical to add 4 football-playing members and 1 basketball-only, for 12 football members including affiliates (allowing for even-sized divisions) and 14 basketball.

It appears they want Davidson. I don't think Davidson comes as the deep south outlier. I imagine they have requested some other schools come too.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I posted on this on cs. The only reason I can think of that might entice Furman's exit.

I guess anything is possible and have no inside knowledge. It seems as if it would be difficult to leave a conference that you have been in since 1936 but I guess the times they are a changin'.

As to Davidson, it is a long time rival although we haven't given them much competition in basketball in 20 years. Still there are long term connections between the two schools in sports and a lot of similarities academically.

The College of Charleston and Elon are rather new participants in SoCon sports. I would imagine that we would be concerned about Charleston leaving mainly if Davidson leaves and the two best bball schools depart the conference. Elon would be another school similar to Furman in size and academics.

It seems to me that Furman's main concern might be the impending departure of ASU and GSU (assuming it ever happens). IF ASU and GSU pull off the move up (the two best football teams leave) and if Davidson and Cof C leave (the two best basketball teams leave), the SoCon might have a real difficult time repairing itself. So, depending on how certain those departures are, Furman might be protecting itself by considering the CAA.

Your point still stands but IMO Chatty is the #2 basketball program in the conference. Not CofC.

[fc97]

sure, but, utc is not a major market and would be an outlier. they are already an outlier in the socon

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

sure, but, utc is not a major market and would be an outlier.

Even with it's proximity to Atlanta, Nashville, and Birmingham?

[youwouldno]

Chattanooga is a decent market. None of the potential CAA candidates really has much market power anyway... being in a metro area is more important for travel reasons.

Davidson has a very, very weak athletic dept. that isn't up to snuff in the SoCon, let alone the CAA. Even in basketball, it's really just a solid mid-major that has trampled on weak conference opposition, plus hit the jackpot with Steph Curry for a brief period of national relevance. When McKillop eventually retires, it could easily become non-competitive, leaving Davidson with nothing athletically.

Charleston isn't particularly wonderful at basketball either, but at least it is competitive in the other sports it plays, most notably baseball.

The simple fact is that CAA basketball has been gutted and there's nothing they can really do about it. Yeager is in a tough spot because some basketball schools seem to prefer short-term fixes (e.g., Davidson) whereas other members would prefer more long-term stability.

[fc97]

if you look at what the caa has been going after, the chattanooga market is not really all that much. its just the truth

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

if you look at what the caa has been going after, the chattanooga market is not really all that much. its just the truth

I don't think there's much of a difference. Not that it matters. The main considerations here are basketball and academics, and that's why Davidson is considered. Like OL FU says, Davidson's athletics program across the board is weak...I think they finished in the bottom half of the conference in every sport outside of basketball this past academic year.

[PaladinFan]

I don't think there's much of a difference. Not that it matters. The main considerations here are basketball and academics, and that's why Davidson is considered. Like OL FU says, Davidson's athletics program across the board is weak...I think they finished in the bottom half of the conference in every sport outside of basketball this past academic year.

Right, but that one program in which they excel probably brings in more money to the SoCon than any other conference sport.

[Cocky]

Chattanooga is larger than Charleston

[PaladinFan]

Chattanooga is larger than Charleston

Neither would fit within the city limits of Traveler's Rest.

[fc97]

market:

charlotte 1.9million
raleigh/durham 1.6 millsion
greensboro 1.5 million
greenville/spartanburg 1.1 million
charleston 1 million
chattanooga .7 million
myrtle beach .3 million

combined statistical areas.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Right, but that one program in which they excel probably brings in more money to the SoCon than any other conference sport.

How so? It's not like they make deep NCAA tournament runs every year.

[CoastalFan2005]

A very good source mentioned to me Furman was "interested" in the CAA. The reason given was Furman's concern with who will replace Charleston and Elon. I am told they would not be happy with Presbyterian or Coastal Carolina joining the SoCon.

Not sure where your source got that idea, because I've been told that CCU & Furman's presidents are fairly close. So, while Furman may wind up in the CAA - it won't be because they "don't like Coastal." Can't speak to their feelings about Presby, though, LoL.

[Skjellyfetti]

How so? It's not like they make deep NCAA tournament runs every year.

According to our feasibility study... the NCAA basketball tournament brings in about 10x as much money to the conference as does FCS playoffs. This only looks at postseason money from the NCAA... but, I think it's safe to say that PaladinFan's statement is accurate... and, if anything... an understatement.

http://oi50.tinypic.com/nn36yo.jpg

[AppMan]

Great post as usual. Moving from the SoCon to the CAA is a proactive move to control your own destiny vs. letting the SoCon control it. Based on the leadership from the SoCon I could understand anyone leaving for the CAA. If App can't get an FBS invite I've said for over a year now that I think we should move to the CAA. This isn't a slam at the members of the SoCon, only a slam of the leadership of the SoCon. I have enjoyed the rivalries with many of the SoCon members.

I was solidly in the move to the CAA camp until they upped the exit fee to $1 Mil. I was told the CAA is only looking to admit schools committed to FCS football and that new exit fee pretty much confirmed it. It is my understanding conversations were held with ASU, but knowing our desire to make the FBS jump there was little thought of it happening.

[youwouldno]

I'm sure the CAA has talked to pretty much everyone. They also have an interest in making it seem like schools are clamoring to get in, while target schools play down any interest or forgo comment entirely.

I don't think App St. can be ruled out. Adding four football schools makes more sense than three, and there are only but so many plausible targets. It's not great for the long-run, but neither is Davidson (for opposite reasons). At least the CAA would collect the $1 million when App left.

[Saint3333]

If App was going to FCS for more than one more year I'd strongly consider the CAA if DC, CofC and Furman left.

[ncguitarplyr]

For Davidson the size of the Charlotte market is irrelevant. Go to any sports store in Charlotte and try to buy a Davidson t-shirt. You won't find one. Davidson is only followed by Davidson alumni (and there's not many of them). That being said its an awesome (small) school. I had a lot of fun there visiting friends. Their facilities are not up to snuff though.

[SpiritCymbal]

If App was going to FCS for more than one more year I'd strongly consider the CAA if DC, CofC and Furman left.

Same here. If I-A was put on hold for an extended amount of time for GSU's future, I think ASU and GSU would both be best served by jumping ship. God knows who will actually replace DC, CofC, FU and/or Elon. It would probably be Mercer, Catawba, USC-Upstate and Irmo H.S.

[fc97]

sports stores selling gear has nothing to do with the exposure or followership, davidson has to release rights for the logo to be made and where it can be sold. they may not have done that

market has nothing to do with selling t-shirts and more about opportunity to give exposure. go to atlanta, see a lot of georgia state stuff? no. but, the caa pursued georgia state just for that fact, it is atlanta.

[Saint3333]

sports stores selling gear has nothing to do with the exposure or followership, davidson has to release rights for the logo to be made and where it can be sold. they may not have done that

I disagree. They would release the right if the stores would purchase them, and stores would purchase them if there was a market.

[ncguitarplyr]

Ga State has a huge alumni base though, and you can buy ga state stuff in Atlanta. Probably not anywhere outside of Atlanta though. In any case I thought ga state was a horrible add.

[fc97]

app fans claim charlotte but they don't sell app stuff much around here

[asumike83]

app fans claim charlotte but they don't sell app stuff much around here

I see Appalachian license plates, car stickers and people in ASU shirts all over Charlotte. I don't venture to South Park or Concord Mills much because I hate dealing with malls but both sports stores at Carolina Place are stocked with ASU apparel. I'm not saying we own the Charlotte market by any means but we are much, much more represented than Davidson.

[AppMan]

Not sure where your source got that idea, because I've been told that CCU & Furman's presidents are fairly close. So, while Furman may wind up in the CAA - it won't be because they "don't like Coastal." Can't speak to their feelings about Presby, though, LoL.

It has nothing to do with the Presidents being good friends and everything to do with the academic mission of the schools. Of which Coastal and Furman are on opposite ends of the spectrum.

[Saint3333]

app fans claim charlotte but they don't sell app stuff much around here

They do in south Charlotte.

[seantaylor]

Your point still stands but IMO Chatty is the #2 basketball program in the conference. Not CofC.

Both wrong. Woffie is

[PaladinFan]

While I have not heard anything regarding these moves from the Furman administration, the move makes sense when laid out on the table. Both for the schools involved and for the CAA.

Davidson would come into replace another successful mid-major basketball program in VCU.

Furman and Elon would take the spots of the two departing football schools.

Furman has just poured millions into their men's lacrosse program. The SoCon does not field men's lacrosse, but the CAA does. Furman is known to have been looking for a separate conference affiliation for that purpose. I don't know much about lacrosse, but it is pretty obvious Furman is going all in on this program...something that would be attractive to the CAA.

Charleston would give Davidson a basketball travel partner. Not to mention the close proximity between Elon and Davidson and the deep institutional ties between Davidson and Furman.

[OL FU]

Yes I agree that over the short-term Wofford and the long term Chattanooga would be in the top two in basketball since CofC hasn't lived up to what many saw as their potential. They will however devote the resources to get there or at least attempt to.

[asumike83]

Yes I agree that over the short-term Wofford and the long term Chattanooga would be in the top two in basketball since CofC hasn't lived up to what many saw as their potential. They will however devote the resources to get there or at least attempt to.

That may be true. Chattanooga has a lot of NCAA appearances and historically probably is second behind Davidson. Wofford has had some very good teams recently but Charleston is just so consistent. They've only had two losing seasons in the last 30 years and have won 20 games something like 23 times during that stretch. They were only one short with 19 wins last season (thanks to my Mountaineers in the SoCon tournament xnodx). Since joining the SoCon in '98, they've had 11 20-win seasons and 1 losing season. They haven't dominated the conference but are a rock solid program, I'd hate to lose them for their hoops and quality baseball.

[Apphole]

It will be interesting to see how well C of C does without Cremins.

[ASUMountaineer]

app fans claim charlotte but they don't sell app stuff much around here

There are at least three stores in Northcross Shopping Center in Huntersville selling ASU gear. I don't buy into the "shirts are sold here, we can claim this market" theory, but ASU merchandise is easily attainable in the Charlotte area.

[Apphole]

app fans claim charlotte but they don't sell app stuff much around here

xlolx

Let me know if you'd like to make your first trip to the Charlotte area soon. I know some cool places to go....xcoffeex



I see Appalachian license plates, car stickers and people in ASU shirts all over Charlotte. I don't venture to South Park or Concord Mills much because I hate dealing with malls but both sports stores at Carolina Place are stocked with ASU apparel. I'm not saying we own the Charlotte market by any means but we are much, much more represented than Davidson.

and UNC Charlotte...

[whitey]

You know it's the middle of summer when people are arguing over zip codes, mailing addresses and t-shirts.

[asumike83]

You know it's the middle of summer when people are arguing over zip codes, mailing addresses and t-shirts.

Is it worse than last summer? I believe we were arguing about the shade of yellow/gold on Appalachian's new turf and whether the sidelines were a brighter shade than the end zone. xlolx

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

According to our feasibility study... the NCAA basketball tournament brings in about 10x as much money to the conference as does FCS playoffs. This only looks at postseason money from the NCAA... but, I think it's safe to say that PaladinFan's statement is accurate... and, if anything... an understatement.


And the well is somehow going to run dry if one program leaves? xconfusedx

[PaladinFan]

And the well is somehow going to run dry if one program leaves? xconfusedx

Not particularly, but you never like to lose your flagship program in any sport, particularly the sports that make money.

[WUTNDITWAA]

While losing Davidson would hurt ASU's only decent basketball gate of the season, it won't hurt that much beyond that. With the exception of the Elite Eight year, we're a one and done league. We can't become a none and done. It might bump our next television contract from PBS to community access, but that's about it.

[AppMan]

While I have not heard anything regarding these moves from the Furman administration, the move makes sense when laid out on the table. Both for the schools involved and for the CAA.

Davidson would come into replace another successful mid-major basketball program in VCU.

Furman and Elon would take the spots of the two departing football schools.

Furman has just poured millions into their men's lacrosse program. The SoCon does not field men's lacrosse, but the CAA does. Furman is known to have been looking for a separate conference affiliation for that purpose. I don't know much about lacrosse, but it is pretty obvious Furman is going all in on this program...something that would be attractive to the CAA.

Charleston would give Davidson a basketball travel partner. Not to mention the close proximity between Elon and Davidson and the deep institutional ties between Davidson and Furman.

UNCW would more likely be the travel partner for Charleston.

[fc97]

uncw and elon are closer both in distance and time traveled

[PaladinFan]

uncw and elon are closer both in distance and time traveled

In a conference where a good number of the basketball playing schools are up the eastern seaboard, a school in South Carolina is plenty close enough.

[GSUsTALON]

I’d hate to see AppSt leave the SoCon for the CAA. I don’t see the rationale behind it especially since their investments in facilities upgrades was to move them as quickly as possible to FBS.
As far as GSU & ASU making it known that they have aspirations towards FBS that may be fine for ASU but GSU does not have the funding to make the move at this time unless it was to the SunBelch which I am totally against. The SB is FBS in name only & the top 16 FCS schools could easily post a winning record against them. Unless GSU can drastically boost its donation base or receives corporate sponsorship as it did when ERK first help built the program I don’t see GSU leaving anytime soon.

[appsfan]

Talon, how would the Top 16 fair against a SBC with ASU and GSU? My point here is that if our respective programs were to get an invite, in time could we help raise the level of competition?

[OL FU]

Talon, how would the Top 16 fair against a SBC with ASU and GSU? My point here is that if our respective programs were to get an invite, in time could we help raise the level of competition?

No offense and I don't have a grudge against ASU and GSU wanting to leave, but if the two new members to the Sunbelt is what would improve performance against the top 16 in the FCS, then it really doesn't seem very attractive..xeyebrowx

[superman7515]

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A3GXOaACQAAa506.jpg

South Carolina State continuing to examine it's place in the MEAC vs looking for new conference affiliation. Some well respected SC State insiders saying Division 2 is 100% out of the question, but they feel that the results of the independent company doing the review will show that the numbers "do not justify staying in the MEAC."

[CID1990]

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A3GXOaACQAAa506.jpg

South Carolina State continuing to examine it's place in the MEAC vs looking for new conference affiliation. Some well respected SC State insiders saying Division 2 is 100% out of the question, but they feel that the results of the independent company doing the review will show that the numbers "do not justify staying in the MEAC."

SCSU would be a great addition to the SoCon. Wish we could just go ahead and kick cofc out and bring the other Bulldogs in.

[Boo Boo]

E-Loan doen't deserve to be in a Division 1 FCS conference-period. The need to be forced baqck down into D-2 where they belong because they suck ballz.

[henfan]

E-Loan doen't deserve to be in a Division 1 FCS conference-period. The need to be forced baqck down into D-2 where they belong because they suck ballz.

Not sure what that says about GaSo then, as they struggled mightily to get by Elon last week and lost 3 straight to them from 2007-2009.

[phoenix3]

E-Loan doen't deserve to be in a Division 1 FCS conference-period. The need to be forced baqck down into D-2 where they belong because they suck ballz.

And you suck that portion of the anatomy just superior...

[Boo Boo]

It would take an expert sucker to know that, now wouldn't it phoenix?

[Tim James]

Whats with all the MEAC schools looking to bolt ? Florida A&M already tried it. We know Hampton would love a CAA invite, and Delaware St and SC St are poking around other places as well. Isnt anyone happy there happy being in the MEAC ?

[fc97]

Whats with all the MEAC schools looking to bolt ? Florida A&M already tried it. We know Hampton would love a CAA invite, and Delaware St and SC St are poking around other places as well. Isnt anyone happy there happy being in the MEAC ?

a&t tried it too, was a year behind a&m.

[Sader87]

Just curious....would the SoCon ever take Liberty? I know their (LU) stated intentions are to go FBS but is that really realistic?

[superman7515]

Whats with all the MEAC schools looking to bolt ? Florida A&M already tried it. We know Hampton would love a CAA invite, and Delaware St and SC St are poking around other places as well. Isnt anyone happy there happy being in the MEAC ?

The problem for Delaware State started in 1979. They simply don't fit in with what the MEAC has become. It was originally Delaware State, Howard, Morgan State, North Carolina A&T, North Carolina Central, Maryland-Eastern Shore, and South Carolina State. Any one year, at most, you'd have two trips to the Carolina's as your furthest expenses. Then in 1979 they moved up to D1, dropped Morgan State (bus trip to Maryland) and North Carolina Central, and added FAMU and Bethune-Cookman. So you replace two Mid-Atlantic teams (hence the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference) with two teams geographically isolated in the south. A year later UMES realized they couldn't afford that kind of thing and dropped football (and out of the MEAC altogether for a year), so yet another bus trip gone. Anyway, over the years they kept picking up schools, but UMES never got back, no rivalries ever developed for DSU, and the majority of their students continue to come from the northeast which has no real tie-in with the rest of the MEAC.

Florida A&M has actually left the MEAC twice, in 1984 and 2004. Winston-Salem State went back to D2. Hampton has tried to leave, Norfolk State didn't want to join in the first place but did when they had trouble getting into another conference, and South Carolina State is saying the conference is too spread out and no longer cost effective. UMES and Coppin State both have club football teams with plans, who knows how long they will take but Coppin says 2015 and UMES is doing the financial planning, to have D1 football programs.

If one, or both, get their wish it may be best to just split the conference into two conferences. DelState, Morgan State, Howard, Coppin State, UMES, Hampton, and Norfolk State in one; North Carolina A&T, North Carolina Central, South Carolina State, Savannah State, Bethune-Cookman, and Florida A&M in the other (maybe send an invite to the Alabama teams in the SWAC since both want to rejoin the playoffs). The problem there would be getting a waiver for the "new" conference to continue NCAA tournament participation, but considering the WAC was able to get waivers, they probably wouldn't have a problem. If neither adds a team, then someone leaving (whether DelState or SC State or whoever) will get the conference to a more manageable 10 football/12 basketball. There are enough grumblings and gripings from schools that something will change, it's just who and when.

[MplsBison]

Maybe they're trying to grow the brand of the university and feel that such growth will be impossible if they're inevitably tied down to the "black school" label?

[fc97]

Maybe they're trying to grow the brand of the university and feel that such growth will be impossible if they're inevitably tied down to the "black school" label?

at least you prefaced with maybe this time, you're growing!

2 years ago it was about the meac dropping out of the playoffs that prompted scsu and others to vocally say they were looking. that could be up for voting again. the ad at scsu also stated last year that the direction of the conference wasnt the direction that sc state wants to go. that's the same thing a&t said in 2003.

the ultimate question isnt about wanting to grow, but how it impacts donors. thats what killed a&t. will the old donors, who like the current tradition continue to give if this type of change happens.

and would the socon take liberty? unknown. jacksonville state was a candidate when samford joined and their fbs aspirations lead them to not be voted in.

[ElCid]

I never can figure why the SOCON lacks the leadership to go on the offensive. I am sure folks will have a million reasons why this could not happen, apart from the SOCON schools currently voting no, but wouldn't it be great if the SOCON raided the CAA, Big South and OVC. The Big Sky is now a monster out west. We need a monster back east.

Get Richmond, W&M, James Madison, into the fold. But also grab Liberty and Jacksonville St. I know there were issues about Jacksonville St and FBS aspirations and not sure how Richmond and W&M would like coming back after so many years. Added to the 9 already there, and we would have 14. Enough for two divisions of 7 each. Put all four Va and the NC schools in one, and put all the rest in the other.

(Richmond, W&M, JM, Liberty, Elon, App and Western Carolina) (Citadel, Furman, Wofford, Ga So, Chat, Jacksonville St, and Samford). (In basketball, put Davidson and UNCG in the north, and Put CoC in the South.)

The only issue would be could a championship game be played in addition to the regular Playoffs. I am sure one of you know the answer to that. If Ga So and App leave that still leaves 6 in each.

As it is, if the SOCON does start to lose members, not sure how else it could survive without becoming a second rate conference.

[CID1990]

I say we bring in Furman.

[Saint3333]

I never can figure why the SOCON lacks the leadership to go on the offensive. I am sure folks will have a million reasons why this could not happen, apart from the SOCON schools currently voting no, but wouldn't it be great if the SOCON raided the CAA, Big South and OVC. The Big Sky is now a monster out west. We need a monster back east.

Get Richmond, W&M, James Madison, into the fold. But also grab Liberty and Jacksonville St. I know there were issues about Jacksonville St and FBS aspirations and not sure how Richmond and W&M would like coming back after so many years. Added to the 9 already there, and we would have 14. Enough for two divisions of 7 each. Put all four Va and the NC schools in one, and put all the rest in the other.

(Richmond, W&M, JM, Liberty, Elon, App and Western Carolina) (Citadel, Furman, Wofford, Ga So, Chat, Jacksonville St, and Samford). (In basketball, put Davidson and UNCG in the north, and Put CoC in the South.)

The only issue would be could a championship game be played in addition to the regular Playoffs. I am sure one of you know the answer to that. If Ga So and App leave that still leaves 6 in each.

As it is, if the SOCON does start to lose members, not sure how else it could survive without becoming a second rate conference.

Great post! You may be accused of being an App fan attacking the SoCon leaders though lol.

[fc97]

I never can figure why the SOCON lacks the leadership to go on the offensive. I am sure folks will have a million reasons why this could not happen, apart from the SOCON schools currently voting no, but wouldn't it be great if the SOCON raided the CAA, Big South and OVC. The Big Sky is now a monster out west. We need a monster back east.

Get Richmond, W&M, James Madison, into the fold. But also grab Liberty and Jacksonville St. I know there were issues about Jacksonville St and FBS aspirations and not sure how Richmond and W&M would like coming back after so many years. Added to the 9 already there, and we would have 14. Enough for two divisions of 7 each. Put all four Va and the NC schools in one, and put all the rest in the other.

(Richmond, W&M, JM, Liberty, Elon, App and Western Carolina) (Citadel, Furman, Wofford, Ga So, Chat, Jacksonville St, and Samford). (In basketball, put Davidson and UNCG in the north, and Put CoC in the South.)

The only issue would be could a championship game be played in addition to the regular Playoffs. I am sure one of you know the answer to that. If Ga So and App leave that still leaves 6 in each.

As it is, if the SOCON does start to lose members, not sure how else it could survive without becoming a second rate conference.

going on any offense would be great. liberty and jacksonville state would be good if you could guarantee a good length of stay. mercer would be good for most sports outside football. i'd love jmu, w&m and uncw but coughing up $1 million to leave the caa is a huge hit on their budgets for a year.

the socon has to offer something, right? what do we have to offer? a good core, some good sports, but we have no tv games. why leave the big south, ovc or caa where you can get tv games for this? who would have thought 5 years ago that we'd have less football games on tv than the ovc. what the hell is going on in the front office?

this isnt a public vs private problem, this is a socon office problem

[2caafans]

The cards are stacked perfect for the Spiders to upset ODU.

[Saint3333]

Glad to see other fanbases are seeing the problems I've been preaching about for last three years.

[DFW HOYA]

I think the SoCon is a classic football conference but its relative lack of success in basketball and other sports makes it a tougher proposition for schools to move to.

Is there a scenario where the SoCon annexes the CAA South? Not right now.

[seantaylor]

Not sure what that says about GaSo then, as they struggled mightily to get by Elon last week and lost 3 straight to them from 2007-2009.

Chris Hatcher. Just a terrible coach. Thankfully, our retarded AD responsible for him is on the lam.

[fc97]

I think the SoCon is a classic football conference but its relative lack of success in basketball and other sports makes it a tougher proposition for schools to move to.

Is there a scenario where the SoCon annexes the CAA South? Not right now.

the only mid-major conference with consistent 2 and 3 picks for baseball and 6-7 schools in the top 100?
furman and uncg runs in soccer? clint dempsey?
consistently 2-3 top 40 soccer teams. furman is #25 and elon is #31 right now
davidson to the elite 8 in basketball?
two top 40 volleyball teams?

the socon has had more success nationally in basketball and other sports than say the OVC or Big South, and they have better packages right now. without a change in leadership and a severe change in how things are done, this conference is doomed.

this is why app and gsu fans want to leave for fbs now
this is why charleston is leaving
this is why furman and elon want to go to the caa