Sun Belt is done expanding ... for now

[aceinthehole]

Idaho's and New Mexico State's chances of remaining FBS schools look slimmer than ever after the Sun Belt announced Wednesday that it will remain at 10 football-playing members for the foreseeable future.

Sun Belt commissioner Karl Benson addressed the plight of the Vandals and Aggies during his league's announcement that non-football-member Texas-Arlington would be officially joining the SBC in 2013 after a single season in the WAC.

"We are not pursuing additional members at this time," Benson said, saying that the league would forgo playing a conference championship game. "At this juncture, the Sun Belt shouldn't be considered a landing spot whether it's an FCS member or an existing FBS member."

Benson said his announcement will "allow both Idaho and New Mexico State to know the direction the Sun Belt is headed. Personally, I wish the best for the University of Idaho and New Mexico State."

Per the Idaho Statesman, Benson also confirmed that he had spoken with Idaho athletic director Rob Spear prior to the announcement.

With the Mountain West having already declined to bring either the Moscow, Idaho or Las Cruces, New Mexico schools aboard, either's road forward at the FBS level appears extremely, extremely difficult. With the WAC down to just two football-playing members (i.e., the Vandals and Aggies) and no apparent way to bring itself back from the brink as an FBS entity, Idaho and NMSU face either convincing an FCS cavalry to ride into FBS to save the WAC, scratching out an existence as independents -- and becoming by far the two hardest programs in the country to recruit to, if they aren't already -- or dropping back to the FCS.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/19134749/sun-belt-wont-add-idaho-new-mexico-st-fcs-the-next-step

[BisonHype!]

Not looking good at all. DUN DUN DUN!

[danefan]

Well the MAC hasn't made a move yet to replace Temple or sure up its membership.

The appear to be the next one up.

JMU
Delaware
Liberty
App State

????
Jax State is so far out of the MAC's footprint.

[DFW HOYA]

Well the MAC hasn't made a move yet to replace Temple or sure up its membership.
The appear to be the next one up.

JMU
Delaware
Liberty
App State


Villanova?

[Redbirdz]

Can anyone spell WAC? East and West Divisions.

[BisonHype!]

Probably not Idaho. Right about now they should be getting drunk, or already drunk. That blows.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

That statement says nothing about not adding schools in the event that FIU, North Texas, or Middle Tennessee go to CUSA.

[MplsBison]

SAVE THE WAC!

App, GSU, Liberty, Jax St?, Delaware?, Youngstown?, Illinois St?, Portland St?, Sac St?, NDSU? Montanas? (although some of those probably better suited for a potential MAC invite)

Basically any school in FCS that has reasonable facilities to do it and wants to even think about doing it in the next 5-10 years - this is your chance of a generation. Else it's FCS/Tier 3 for the next who knows, 20 years?

And this is obviously football only. No changes to bball conferneces (or relatively minor, compared to football sides)


The WAC non-football can survive if Boise stays put, Bakersfield and Utah Valley come in and either Portland St or Sac St sign up.

[MplsBison]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/19134749/sun-belt-wont-add-idaho-new-mexico-st-fcs-the-next-step

By the way, does anyone think Benson's wording ("we're not going to be your landing spot") was just tounge-in-cheek, or was he really trying say "folks, the Sun Belt is not going to be thought of as a stepping stone conf any more!!"

This coming from the guy who was just in the WAC and basically just gave the middle finger to a couple schools out there that he just worked for!

[NoDak 4 Ever]

SAVE THE WAC!

App, GSU, Liberty, Jax St?, Delaware?, Youngstown?, Illinois St?, Portland St?, Sac St?, NDSU? Montanas? (although some of those probably better suited for a potential MAC invite)

Basically any school in FCS that has reasonable facilities to do it and wants to even think about doing it in the next 5-10 years - this is your chance of a generation. Else it's FCS/Tier 3 for the next who knows, 20 years?

And this is obviously football only. No changes to bball conferneces (or relatively minor, compared to football sides)


The WAC non-football can survive if Boise stays put, Bakersfield and Utah Valley come in and either Portland St or Sac St sign up.


The Youngstown AD is just now on a conference call with Portland State and Sac State breathlessly declaring "Exciting news! MplsBison thinks we should jump to FBS and save the WAC!" I'm sure they've just been waiting for your seal of approval.

[Silenoz]

SAVE THE WAC!

App, GSU, Liberty, Jax St?, Delaware?, Youngstown?, Illinois St?, Portland St?, Sac St?, NDSU? Montanas? (although some of those probably better suited for a potential MAC invite)

Basically any school in FCS that has reasonable facilities to do it and wants to even think about doing it in the next 5-10 years - this is your chance of a generation. Else it's FCS/Tier 3 for the next who knows, 20 years?

No

[NHwildEcat]

SAVE THE WAC!

App, GSU, Liberty, Jax St?, Delaware?, Youngstown?, Illinois St?, Portland St?, Sac St?, NDSU? Montanas? (although some of those probably better suited for a potential MAC invite)

Basically any school in FCS that has reasonable facilities to do it and wants to even think about doing it in the next 5-10 years - this is your chance of a generation. Else it's FCS/Tier 3 for the next who knows, 20 years?

And this is obviously football only. No changes to bball conferneces (or relatively minor, compared to football sides)


The WAC non-football can survive if Boise stays put, Bakersfield and Utah Valley come in and either Portland St or Sac St sign up.

Good thing your not making decisions in college football. You are too quick to sign up anyone and everyone and throw them into any old random conference just to play FBS football. Thank God that not all of these schools think as crazy as you do.

[BisonHype!]

The Youngstown AD is just now on a conference call with Portland State and Sac State breathlessly declaring "Exciting news! MplsBison thinks we should jump to FBS and save the WAC!" I'm sure they've just been waiting for your seal of approval.
http://ct.fra.bz/ol/fz/sw/i49/5/5/6/frabz-Lol-Hahahahha-he-told-you-buddy-766d73.jpg (http://i.fra.bz/1oq1)

[MplsBison]

No

Yes

[MplsBison]

Good thing your not making decisions in college football. You are too quick to sign up anyone and everyone and throw them into any old random conference just to play FBS football. Thank God that not all of these schools think as crazy as you do.

Yep, hardly any FCS schools are moving to FBS football these days.

[SpiritCymbal]

That statement says nothing about not adding schools in the event that FIU, North Texas, or Middle Tennessee go to CUSA.

FIU and UNT are already gone. Adding GState and TxState were to "replace" those two schools. MTSU has already put the rumors to rest about them moving to CUSA. They tried, but CUSA turned them down.

[Silenoz]

Yes

So the NCAA is going to restructure new tiers of 50-60 teams each? That is going to be a metric f#ck-ton of tiers xsmiley_wix

[MplsBison]

So the NCAA is going to restructure new tiers of 50-60 teams each? That is going to be a metric f#ck-ton of tiers xsmiley_wix

Tier 1 will be the Pac 12, B1G, Big XII and SEC conferences at 16-20 teams each. Conf champions go to a 4 team playoff with semi 1 being the Rose bowl, semi 2 being the new bowl between Big XII and SEC and then a separate national title game. Otherwise teams can go to bowl games.

Tier 2 will be the Big East, ACC, CUSA, Sun Belt, MAC, WAC (maybe!), and Mountain West, they might have a playoff but could just be bowl games.

Tier 3 will be FCS - same playoffs
Tier 4 will be DII - same playoffs
Tier 5 will be DIII - same playoffs

And who knows on scholarship minimums and maximums on these tiers? You could well have the lower end schools in FCS end up dragging down the maximum level in Tier 3 to somewhere around 40-50.

See the obvious divide? I wouldn't be surprised to see large barriers to jumping from tier 3 to tier 2 put in place, as well. Best bet is to move FBS while still possible, if being in Tier 2 is a goal.

[Tod]

Tier two should be the remaining FBS conferences and the current FCS conferences that offer 63 schollies. NCAA allows teams to have 63-85 schollies, their choice. Non-schollie, less-than-63, and non-playoff conferences are tier three.

32 team playoff.

BTW, just pulled this out of thin air, so if it's a bad idea, well...tell me why.

[whoanellie]

you better add the ACC and then I can agree with you as ESPN just signed a long term deal and it is a very solid league. your Tier 1's will pretty much add to FCS and FBS schools expect an additional 5 scholarships for top division and 65 for everyone else.
Tier 1 will be the Pac 12, B1G, Big XII and SEC conferences at 16-20 teams each. Conf champions go to a 4 team playoff with semi 1 being the Rose bowl, semi 2 being the new bowl between Big XII and SEC and then a separate national title game. Otherwise teams can go to bowl games.

Tier 2 will be the Big East, ACC, CUSA, Sun Belt, MAC, WAC (maybe!), and Mountain West, they might have a playoff but could just be bowl games.

Tier 3 will be FCS - same playoffs
Tier 4 will be DII - same playoffs
Tier 5 will be DIII - same playoffs

And who knows on scholarship minimums and maximums on these tiers? You could well have the lower end schools in FCS end up dragging down the maximum level in Tier 3 to somewhere around 40-50.

See the obvious divide? I wouldn't be surprised to see large barriers to jumping from tier 3 to tier 2 put in place, as well. Best bet is to move FBS while still possible, if being in Tier 2 is a goal.

[MplsBison]

Nellie: nope. ACC just got shoved outside the elites, cast down with Big East and Mountain West.

Florida St, Clemson, Miami, Georgia Tech, Viginia Tech and maybe Maryland, Pitt or Syracuse could all be gone to the elite 4 conferences.


Big XII probably wouldn't have beaten ACC in a cross-over last season, but they still have Texas. That counts for a whole lot. The new bowl sealed their fate.

[Silenoz]

Tier 1 will be the Pac 12, B1G, Big XII and SEC conferences at 16-20 teams each. Conf champions go to a 4 team playoff with semi 1 being the Rose bowl, semi 2 being the new bowl between Big XII and SEC and then a separate national title game. Otherwise teams can go to bowl games.

Tier 2 will be the Big East, ACC, CUSA, Sun Belt, MAC, WAC (maybe!), and Mountain West, they might have a playoff but could just be bowl games.

Tier 3 will be FCS - same playoffs
Tier 4 will be DII - same playoffs
Tier 5 will be DIII - same playoffs

And who knows on scholarship minimums and maximums on these tiers? You could well have the lower end schools in FCS end up dragging down the maximum level in Tier 3 to somewhere around 40-50.

See the obvious divide? I wouldn't be surprised to see large barriers to jumping from tier 3 to tier 2 put in place, as well. Best bet is to move FBS while still possible, if being in Tier 2 is a goal.

Except there are FCS schools that offer zero scholarships. FCS is one of the primary reasons we need the restructuring because our level makes no sense. You have people competing at all sorts of different levels because they want DI basketball. So assuming the NCAA is going to just take the existing remaining DI-A, DI-AA, and DII levels as they are doesn't make any sense. In fact it will probably be every conferences choice as to what level they want to compete at when it happens. You don't think the CAA, MVFC and Big Sky would choose tier 2?

[MplsBison]

Tier two should be the remaining FBS conferences and the current FCS conferences that offer 63 schollies. NCAA allows teams to have 63-85 schollies, their choice. Non-schollie, less-than-63, and non-playoff conferences are tier three.

32 team playoff.

BTW, just pulled this out of thin air, so if it's a bad idea, well...tell me why.

This is also a possibility. It just depends on what the leaders of the new tier 2 will want and accept. Will they just want it to be the old FBS schools that aren't in the elite tier? Or will they be fine including the 63 scholarship FCS schools?

[MplsBison]

Except there are FCS schools that offer zero scholarships. FCS is one of the primary reasons we need the restructuring because our level makes no sense. You have people competing at all sorts of different levels because they want DI basketball. So assuming the NCAA is going to just take the existing remaining DI-A, DI-AA, and DII levels as they are doesn't make any sense. In fact it will probably be every conferences choice as to what level they want to compete at when it happens. You don't think the CAA, MVFC and Big Sky would choose tier 2?

If given the choice I assume they would choose tier 2. I just don't think tier 2 will have that kind of access for those outside the current FBS come 2014 or so.

Reason is, the restructuring will be for the sake of splitting off the elite schools from FBS. That's what the restructuring will cater to.


You're not wrong in your reasoning for why FCS needs to be split, I just don't think they'll care that far "down the food chain". It will take a lot of work, negotiating, time, etc. to workout the tier 1/tier 2 split-up of FBS. When they're done with that, I just doubt there's going to be a lot of political momentum left to tackle any kind of restructuring for the "minor leagues". I'd be too easy and simple to just slap tier 3, 4 and 5 labels on the current FCS, DII and DIII classifications.

[DFW HOYA]

Don't assume D-II and D-III are homogenous groups either. You've got two, maybe three strata in D-III.

[MplsBison]

Don't assume D-II and D-III are homogenous groups either. You've got two, maybe three strata in D-III.

Yeah maybe...but why should they care? That's just the same point as I'm making about FCS. If you're not considered in the major leagues, they don't have time to deal with you.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If you're not considered in the major leagues, they don't have time to deal with you.

This is why I'm no longer responding to any of the brain farts that MplsBison considers actual "ideas" worthy of consideration by human beings, let alone collegiate decision-makers. After all, Mpls is a minor leaguer in every sense of the word, and I don't have time to deal with his idiotic ramblings.

[ncguitarplyr]

Tier 1: SEC
Tier 2: Big-10, 12, pac-12, ACC, Notre Dame, BYU
Tier 3: Big East, C-USA, Sun Belt

[DFW HOYA]

Tier 1: SEC, Big 10, ND
Tier 2: Big-12 Pac-12, BYU
Tier 3: ACC, Big East, Navy
Tier 4: Mountain West, C-USA, Army
Tier 5: Sun Belt, MAC
Tier 6: SoCon, Big Sky, CAA
Tier 7: MVC, Southland, OVC
Tier 8: Ivy, Patriot
Tier 9: NEC, Big South, SWAC, MEAC
Tier 10: Pioneer

[Cocky]

1) SEC
2) B1G, Big 12, PAC 12
3) ACC
4)big East
5)CUSA, MVC
6) MAC, WAC, SB
7) only alums care or the rest

[MplsBison]

Tier 1: SEC, Big 10, ND
Tier 2: Big-12 Pac-12, BYU
Tier 3: ACC, Big East, Navy
Tier 4: Mountain West, C-USA, Army
Tier 5: Sun Belt, MAC
Tier 6: SoCon, Big Sky, CAA
Tier 7: MVC, Southland, OVC
Tier 8: Ivy, Patriot
Tier 9: NEC, Big South, SWAC, MEAC
Tier 10: Pioneer

Way to not let your personal feelings cloud your judgment. Yeah, MVFC is down with the Southland and OVC. Load of horse dung and you know it, obviously a shot at me personally.

Just goes to show you why human polls are garbage, people can't not let their personal feelings affect their voting.

[UAalum72]

Way to not let your personal feelings cloud your judgment. Yeah, MVFC is down with the Southland and OVC. Load of horse dung and you know it, obviously a shot at me personally.
Wow, are you totally self-absorbed and self-important, or just paranoid? I know I'm right, it has to be one or the other, and if you say anything else the only possible explanation is that you're lying.

[DFW HOYA]

No shot at the Valley intended--the SoCon, Big Sky, and CAA have accounted for 12 of the last 14 champions and if the MVC is at that level, feel free to include them thusly. (It's not like I stuck the Valley with the Big South or something.)

[NoDak 4 Ever]

No shot at the Valley intended--the SoCon, Big Sky, and CAA have accounted for 12 of the last 14 champions and if the MVC is at that level, feel free to include them thusly. (It's not like I stuck the Valley with the Big South or something.)

I think comparing teams from 1999-2000 and using them in an assessment today is probably off. We saw how well the CAA and the SoCon performed this past year.

[WUTNDITWAA]

Tier I: SEC
Tier II: Everyone else.

[76ers]

Sun Belt Conference to crAPP State and GSOU

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/123920_o.gif

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Tier 1: SEC, Pac-12
Tier 2: Big-12 Big-10, ACC, ND
Tier 3: Big East, Navy
Tier 4: Mountain West, C-USA
Tier 5: Sun Belt, MAC, SoCon, Big Sky, CAA, MVFC, Army
Tier 6: MEAC, Southland, OVC, Big South
Tier 7: Ivy, Patriot,
Tier 8: NEC, SWAC, Pioneer


Fixed

[dgreco]

Fixed

other than USC and Oregon how is the Pac-12 tier 1 and ahead of the Big 10. I actually think Big 12, Big Ten, and SEC (obviously SEC is the best football league) are all tier 1 and far and above better than the rest of the FBS leagues.

[seantaylor]

SEC so overrated. This national champ ish is garbage. Once out of every five years do the two best teams play

[WUTNDITWAA]

SEC so overrated. This national champ ish is garbage. Once out of every five years do the two best teams play

Only because they already met in the SEC Championship game.

[Dane96]

Tier 1: SEC, Big 10, ND
Tier 2: Big-12 Pac-12, BYU
Tier 3: ACC, Big East, Navy
Tier 4: Mountain West, C-USA, Army
Tier 5: Sun Belt, MAC
Tier 6: SoCon, Big Sky, CAA
Tier 7: MVC, Southland, OVC
Tier 8: Ivy, Patriot
Tier 9: NEC, Big South, SWAC, MEAC
Tier 10: Pioneer

Don't kid yourself; proven on the field- Tier 8,9, and some of 10 are one tier. OVC...a close call on lumping them in as well.

[MSUDuo]

Is ND Tier 1 on name alone? What have they done in my lifetime (24 years)?

[MplsBison]

No shot at the Valley intended--the SoCon, Big Sky, and CAA have accounted for 12 of the last 14 champions and if the MVC is at that level, feel free to include them thusly. (It's not like I stuck the Valley with the Big South or something.)

Horse dung. A giant pile.

The legitimate justification for conference rankings is which conference would win a cross-over with another conference. You know it, your grandmother knows it. MVFC is easily capable of winning a cross-over with any FCS conference, CAA, SoCon and especially the Big Sky. So they darn well are in the same tier.

Shame on you. I wouldn't have cared if it was just some troll post. But not you. You're too much of a respected poster around here to be pull crap like that. Come on now...

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Horse dung. A giant pile.

The legitimate justification for conference rankings is which conference would win a cross-over with another conference. You know it, your grandmother knows it. MVFC is easily capable of winning a cross-over with any FCS conference, CAA, SoCon and especially the Big Sky. So they darn well are in the same tier.

Shame on you. I wouldn't have cared if it was just some troll post. But not you. You're too much of a respected poster around here to be pull crap like that. Come on now...

You are a true crybaby. They would do no better than 50/50 in any crossover and that does put them on the same level which I would totally agree with but your whining is god damn embarrassing. Get yourself together young lady.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

You are a true crybaby. They would do no better than 50/50 in any crossover and that does put them on the same level which I would totally agree with but your whining is god damn embarrassing. Get yourself together young lady.

Agreed on both points. MVFC is up there with the rest of the competitive scholly leagues.

[Tod]

Agreed on both points. MVFC is up there with the rest of the competitive scholly leagues.

Undoubtedly.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Agreed on both points. MVFC is up there with the rest of the competitive scholly leagues.

yes, and I should not have said "no better" cuz I meant they are straight across the board competitive on every level of team across the board and some years slightly better and some slightly worse just like the Big Sky, CAA, or SoCon.

[MplsBison]

Agreed on both points. MVFC is up there with the rest of the competitive scholly leagues.

The top 4 MVFC teams every year would take 3 from the top 4 of any other conference in FCS.

I truly believe that.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The top 4 MVFC teams every year would take 3 from the top 4 of any other conference in FCS.

I truly believe that.

Of course you believe that. You're not a smart man.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

The top 4 MVFC teams every year would take 3 from the top 4 of any other conference in FCS.

I truly believe that.

How long have you followed the FCS, Mpls? At the very least the SoCon and CAA have had the advantage over the MVFC most years. This not counting UMass and Western Kentucky...

The SoCon has had 3 national championships in the last 10 seasons
The CAA has had 4
The MVFC has had 1

The SoCon has had 9 semifinalists in the last 10 seasons
The CAA has had 11
The MVFC has had 8

[MplsBison]

How long have you followed the FCS, Mpls? At the very least the SoCon and CAA have had the advantage over the MVFC most years. This not counting UMass and Western Kentucky...

The SoCon has had 3 national championships in the last 10 seasons
The CAA has had 4
The MVFC has had 1

The SoCon has had 9 semifinalists in the last 10 seasons
The CAA has had 11
The MVFC has had 8

That's just a simple numbers game. The people who pick the participants do so with a bias against the MVFC. For example, last year it only had two teams in when five deserved to be selected.

The more teams you get in averages out to more semi-finalists and champions.


You haven't disproven my claim with your numbers.

[Redbird Ray]

MVFC, CAA, Southern and Big Sky are all typically 1-4 in any conference ratings with a big drop after 4. Last year, the MVFC had 5 teams that could compete with any other league's top 5. And using national champions as a measure of Soc is somewhat flawed. If SHS would have won the title last year, would people be claiming the Southland was the best conference in 2011?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

MVFC, CAA, Southern and Big Sky are all typically 1-4 in any conference ratings with a big drop after 4. Last year, the MVFC had 5 teams that could compete with any other league's top 5. And using national champions as a measure of Soc is somewhat flawed. If SHS would have won the title last year, would people be claiming the Southland was the best conference in 2011?

No, but the Southland definitely showed improvement last year to bring the conference name at least back into the discussion. The MVFC could compete with any other leagues top 5. The traditional lower leagues also showed that the top of their conferences are shrinking the gap. Maybe not throughout the entire conference but the tops are showing real competitive spirit and talent.

[PantherRob82]

No, but the Southland definitely showed improvement last year to bring the conference name at least back into the discussion. The MVFC could compete with any other leagues top 5. The traditional lower leagues also showed that the top of their conferences are shrinking the gap. Maybe not throughout the entire conference but the tops are showing real competitive spirit and talent.

You think? SHSU ran away with it, then made the conference look better with a 2nd place finish. The 2nd place team got beat in the first quarter of the game at Montana. Although...the MVFC isn't a whole lot different besides it being championship and a round later. Difference is that Illinois State, Indiana State, and Youngstown were all fringe playoff teams. SLC took a dip after SHSU and dive after UCA.

[PaladinFan]

That's just a simple numbers game. The people who pick the participants do so with a bias against the MVFC. For example, last year it only had two teams in when five deserved to be selected.

The more teams you get in averages out to more semi-finalists and champions.


You haven't disproven my claim with your numbers.

Every conference can claim a perceived bias. Many of us here remember Wofford in 2002 not getting a bid despite their 9 wins and top 15 ranking. This argument is circular, though. As Rick Flair said, "to be the man, you have to beat the man." For the better part of the past 20 years the SoCon has been "the man." They have the most titles, you can't spin that.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

That's just a simple numbers game. The people who pick the participants do so with a bias against the MVFC. For example, last year it only had two teams in when five deserved to be selected.

The more teams you get in averages out to more semi-finalists and champions.


You haven't disproven my claim with your numbers.

You said that the top 3 MVFC teams would consistently beat the top three from the other top conferences every year. Why hasn't the MVFC had as much playoff success as the SoCon and CAA? Seems like a valid barometer to me.

Also which 3 at-large bids would you have replaced with MVFC teams even if you could let teams with fewer than 7 DI wins in? When you consider UNI had one of the best scoring defenses in the FCS coming into the playoff and was torched by Montana and Wofford (at least in terms of yards) are you really going to try to say the top of the MVFC is so much better than the other top conferences that they should have gotten 4 at-large bids?

[PantherRob82]

When you consider UNI had one of the best scoring defenses in the FCS coming into the playoff and was torched by Montana and Wofford (at least in terms of yards) are you really going to try to say the top of the MVFC is so much better than the other top conferences that they should have gotten 4 at-large bids?

you say scoring defense then bring up yards.... UNI always gives up yards. We probably get outgained in a good number of our games. It's part of the way our defense operates.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

You think? SHSU ran away with it, then made the conference look better with a 2nd place finish. The 2nd place team got beat in the first quarter of the game at Montana. Although...the MVFC isn't a whole lot different besides it being championship and a round later. Difference is that Illinois State, Indiana State, and Youngstown were all fringe playoff teams. SLC took a dip after SHSU and dive after UCA.

UCA was a good team as well. UNI is a good team. Sometimes you just get up on the wrong side of a team in the playoffs and get them when they just got it going. The SLC is stronger than they have been in the last 8-10 yrs. from what I saw of the teams last year. The fans always talk about the speed which is f'n stupid but what I saw was a toughness that they really haven't had in a while.

Hell, we aren't even discussing McNeese & SFA which are in the wings and I think it's unlikely they play the role of 3rd & 4th in the conference for very long. I don't see the conference as a whole at the top but they are making strides forward in my perception.

[MplsBison]

You said that the top 3 MVFC teams would consistently beat the top three from the other top conferences every year. Why hasn't the MVFC had as much playoff success as the SoCon and CAA? Seems like a valid barometer to me.

Also which 3 at-large bids would you have replaced with MVFC teams even if you could let teams with fewer than 7 DI wins in? When you consider UNI had one of the best scoring defenses in the FCS coming into the playoff and was torched by Montana and Wofford (at least in terms of yards) are you really going to try to say the top of the MVFC is so much better than the other top conferences that they should have gotten 4 at-large bids?


The possibilities aren't exclusive. First of all, I said the MVFC top 4 would take 3 from another conference's top 4. But then say all 4 from that other conference are selected for the playoffs while only the MVFC champion gets to go. Obviously the other conference has a much better chance at getting to the semi's and championship.

That's all that's happening here. CAA and SoCon get more teams in because the people who pick the teams like those conferences more.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The possibilities aren't exclusive. First of all, I said the MVFC top 4 would take 3 from another conference's top 4. But then say all 4 from that other conference are selected for the playoffs while only the MVFC champion gets to go. Obviously the other conference has a much better chance at getting to the semi's and championship.

That's all that's happening here. CAA and SoCon get more teams in because the people who pick the teams like those conferences more.

Even though all are represented equally on the selection committee...seems odd. Maybe they like them more because they perform well on the field? Maybe you are just making up ****?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The possibilities aren't exclusive. First of all, I said the MVFC top 4 would take 3 from another conference's top 4. But then say all 4 from that other conference are selected for the playoffs while only the MVFC champion gets to go. Obviously the other conference has a much better chance at getting to the semi's and championship.

That's all that's happening here. CAA and SoCon get more teams in because the people who pick the teams like those conferences more.

Well let's look at that rationally. The top 4 in the MVFC are NDSU, UNI, ISUr and ISUb.

Last year only 2 of those teams got to play teams in the other conferences (playoffs)

NDSU went 2-0 vs the Southern and CAA, beating JMU in the 2nd rd and beating GSU in the semi's
UNI went 1-1 vs BSC and Southern beating Wofford and Losing to Montana

It looks like our proof would come against the Southern since there were more common opponents than any other conference.

sooo That means ISUr or ISUb would beat who? App State? Furman?

Seeing as how they both had a chance to get into the playoffs but BOTH stepped on their collective dicks in the last week, I would say that the MVFC is just like any other conference, top heavy but drops off precipitously after.

[Hammerhead]

The current FBS administrators don't want to give up their precious their precious K-Mart blue light bowl that is played on a Tuesday in front of 15,000 fans and 30,000 empty seats that the participating schools had to pay for. I would like to see
Tier 1: 4 conferences with 12 teams each and an 8-team playoff
Tier 2: bottom feeders of the FBS and good teams from the FCS
Tier 3: FCS bottom dwellers -- conferences not eligible for playoff autobids. This criteria would be based on out of conference games and some sort of strength of schedule formula that is recalculated every 4 years.

[PaladinFan]

Well let's look at that rationally. The top 4 in the MVFC are NDSU, UNI, ISUr and ISUb.

Last year only 2 of those teams got to play teams in the other conferences (playoffs)

NDSU went 2-0 vs the Southern and CAA, beating JMU in the 2nd rd and beating GSU in the semi's
UNI went 1-1 vs BSC and Southern beating Wofford and Losing to Montana

It looks like our proof would come against the Southern since there were more common opponents than any other conference.

sooo That means ISUr or ISUb would beat who? App State? Furman?

Seeing as how they both had a chance to get into the playoffs but BOTH stepped on their collective dicks in the last week, I would say that the MVFC is just like any other conference, top heavy but drops off precipitously after.

I disagree as to the SoCon. The SoCon used to have an upper echelon that was routinely in the national finals and semi finals (Furman, App, Marshall, Georgia Southern). These days, the overall talent level is still there (teams are still advancing deep into the playoffs), but the conference is as deep as it has ever been. There's only one cupcake on the conference slate, and even they are making efforts to improve with aggressive new hiring.

As long as MVFC folks are arguing "2012" and SoCon fans are arguing "20 years," this argument goes no where. MVFC had clearly the best team in 2012. Those fans can't deny, however, that the Southern Conference has had more winning teams for longer periods of time than anyone else. I don't think that is even arguable.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I disagree as to the SoCon. The SoCon used to have an upper echelon that was routinely in the national finals and semi finals (Furman, App, Marshall, Georgia Southern). These days, the overall talent level is still there (teams are still advancing deep into the playoffs), but the conference is as deep as it has ever been. There's only one cupcake on the conference slate, and even they are making efforts to improve with aggressive new hiring.

As long as MVFC folks are arguing "2012" and SoCon fans are arguing "20 years," this argument goes no where. MVFC had clearly the best team in 2012. Those fans can't deny, however, that the Southern Conference has had more winning teams for longer periods of time than anyone else. I don't think that is even arguable.

It seems that all the SoCon people want to talk about is 20 years ago. The conversation waaaay back at the beginning had someone breaking down the strata of college football and clearly leaving the MVFC out of the top of FCS. If you're talking Marshall, MVFC proponents can claim all of YSU's championships.

The conversation is about today and MPLS Bison's argument is stupid.

[PaladinFan]

It seems that all the SoCon people want to talk about is 20 years ago. The conversation waaaay back at the beginning had someone breaking down the strata of college football and clearly leaving the MVFC out of the top of FCS. If you're talking Marshall, MVFC proponents can claim all of YSU's championships.

The conversation is about today and MPLS Bison's argument is stupid.

Not just 20 years ago. SoCon was winning titles then, twenty five years ago, ten years ago, and rattled off three in a row just recently.

Even SoCon fans talk about some of the dust gathering on Georgia Southern's titles, but at the end of the day, they still have six titles.

[MplsBison]

Not just 20 years ago. SoCon was winning titles then, twenty five years ago, ten years ago, and rattled off three in a row just recently.

Even SoCon fans talk about some of the dust gathering on Georgia Southern's titles, but at the end of the day, they still have six titles.

And teams who take pride in what other players have done are the teams who allow themselves to become complacent.

Every year is a completely blank slate. Even last year means nothing.

[DFW HOYA]

Every year is a completely blank slate. Even last year means nothing.

To some degree, but football is a game where talent matters. Alabama and LSU aren't dropping off the map and Vandy still isn't winning the national championship. Similarly, NDSU is well positioned for the future.

[MplsBison]

To some degree, but football is a game where talent matters. Alabama and LSU aren't dropping off the map and Vandy still isn't winning the national championship. Similarly, NDSU is well positioned for the future.

How many first round draft picks did Alabama have in the 2011 draft?

That proves I'm correct. That 2010 Alabama team got complacent. They had talent.

[apaladin]

I think NDSU is in a great position but they will go into FBS relative obsurity.

[MplsBison]

Or maybe a better example: how many players from the 2008 NDSU team had tryouts or signed contracts with NFL teams? EIGHT (8) !!

That team, like it or not, got complacent from the 2006 and 2007 seasons. The talent was obviously there.