Old Dominion departs the CAA for CUSA. What's next for the CAA?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/79-college-sports-journal/chuck-burton/218-old-dominion-departs-caa-for-conference-usa

How it all went down, reaction from around the league - and what might be next for the CAA.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Towson athletic director Mike Waddell seemed to think that the key to keeping everyone in the fold is a strong strategy for getting replacements for the schools that have left.

"I fully expect us to be very aggressive in expansion - and we have been," he said. "We started that process more than seven months ago, and there are a lot of good candidates out there."

Still, the question is - with whom does the CAA expand?

Do they target elite basketball schools that currently don't sponsor CAA-level, 63 scholarship football, such as Davidson, Boston University, UNC-Asheville, or the College of Charleston?

Or do they go after ambitious all-sports programs that sponsor 63-scholarship FCS-level football, such as Coastal Carolina, Stony Brook, Elon or Appalachian State?

The question is: do you expand with essentially basketball-only schools, thus perhaps driving a school like Delaware or JMU out the door? Or do you expand with all-sports and football, thus pissing off the Northeastern Three that are basketball-only?

[kdinva]

Would Wrestling "stay behind" in the CAA? If the CAA says "no", then the SoCon would be the best option for ODU wrestling. Women's Field hockey would also need to find a new home, if the CAA says "no" there as well.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't know about women's field hockey, that's a good question. If wrestling stays - and I think you might need to put it on deathwatch as the Monarchs go to 85 scholarships - they could find a home in EIWA, the same conference that hosts Lehigh, Bucknell, Navy, Army, and other sundry Eastern programs.

[DFW HOYA]

They could merge with the Patriot League...now THAT would be a discussion topic all its own...

[Wildcat80]

Delaware's statement suggests a move to FBS......JMU seems to be worried about all sports.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Delaware's statement suggests a move to FBS......JMU seems to be worried about all sports.

Agreed. Right now the CAA looks like a hodge podge of schools with FBS dreams (Delaware, JMU), basketball-only schools(UNC-W, Mason, Drexel, Hofstra, N'Eastern), and schools that seem to want to stay with FCS football (W&M, Towson). If the CAA wants to keep with the "FCS superleague" concept, they can try to go after Coastal Carolina or Elon. If they want to try their hands at eventually going FBS, they might try Appalachian State, or Stony Brook. If they want to just go all-in on basketball, they can go with Boston University or Davidson. Or they could take one from column "A" and one from column "B" and try to rebuild their existing coalition.

It's going to be very interesting to see what sort of balance they try to strike, but there seem to be a lot of potential schools out there for the CAA to craft whatever it wants to be.

[Pard4Life]

Any chance CAA football just absorbs what's left of the Big South? Stony Brook is perfect for the CAA.

[WestCoastAggie]

The CAA wants to hold on to VA right? If so, there are two schools that would love to and are being discussed to replace ODU and VCU in the 757. The both spent over $10 million dollars on athletics in 2011.

[blaw0203]

The CAA wants to hold on to VA right? If so, there are two schools that would love to and are being discussed to replace ODU and VCU in the 757. The both spent over $10 million dollars on athletics in 2011.

Norfolk & Hampton? xdontknowx

[Seawolf97]

Agreed. Right now the CAA looks like a hodge podge of schools with FBS dreams (Delaware, JMU), basketball-only schools(UNC-W, Mason, Drexel, Hofstra, N'Eastern), and schools that seem to want to stay with FCS football (W&M, Towson). If the CAA wants to keep with the "FCS superleague" concept, they can try to go after Coastal Carolina or Elon. If they want to try their hands at eventually going FBS, they might try Appalachian State, or Stony Brook. If they want to just go all-in on basketball, they can go with Boston University or Davidson. Or they could take one from column "A" and one from column "B" and try to rebuild their existing coalition.

It's going to be very interesting to see what sort of balance they try to strike, but there seem to be a lot of potential schools out there for the CAA to craft whatever it wants to be.
I'm glad you mentioed Elon which I think would be an interesting fit in the CAA. They haven't announced any plans at "moving up" they have a solid athletic program and are southern based . I would look to them before a Coastal Carolina for football and olympic sports although Coastal always has had a great baseball program. And they are alot closer to Virginia than Coastal.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm glad you mentioed Elon which I think would be an interesting fit in the CAA. They haven't announced any plans at "moving up" they have a solid athletic program and are southern based . I would look to them before a Coastal Carolina for football and olympic sports although Coastal always has had a great baseball program. And they are alot closer to Virginia than Coastal.

I agree. Is Elon a bus ride for W&M, Richmond, and JMU?

I'm starting to think that they might do the "column A/column B" concept I mentioned earlier - maybe go after Elon, Stony Brook, and a basketball-only school like BU. That would make the CAA 12 teams and pretty much shore up everything.

Only question is whether the survival of the league is more important than offending Hofstra.

[Brad82]

Would the NEC be more attractive now to some teams?

[kdinva]

Is Elon a bus ride for W&M, Richmond, and JMU?

yes, Elon is located near Greensboro.......about 10 mi. east.

[Sader87]

Boston University is about the last school I'd designate as a "basketball school" btw.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Boston University is about the last school I'd designate as a "basketball school" btw.

'Ockey is the game in Back Bay. BU would be a mid-to-low Patriot League basketball team. The Terriers will move to DI lacrosse for the 2013-2014 season, though.

[Go...gate]

But BU would be a good fit in the PL for everything except football, and they could keep Hockey as-is and have scholarship basketball.

[henfan]

Only question is whether the survival of the league is more important than offending Hofstra.

Again, I ask, why would anyone worry about Hofstra? They could leave tomorrow, Stony Brook, who is at present a much better fit, could step in and the CAA and CAA FB would have both upgraded.

Aside from having a single vote in expansion matters, Hofstra appears to be a non-factor.

[DFW HOYA]

BU would be a great fit in PL football, provide a regional rival in Holy Cross, a decent football traditiion, and already has a stadium (Nickerson Field) which would be in the top four or five in the league right now.

It just takes someone on Commonwealth Avenue to stand up and confront the ghost of John Silber.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/BUNickersonFldStands.jpg/300px-BUNickersonFldStands.jpg

[Seawolf97]

Again, I ask, why would anyone worry about Hofstra? They could leave tomorrow, Stony Brook, who is at present a much better fit, could step in and the CAA and CAA FB would have both upgraded.

Aside from having a single vote in expansion matters, Hofstra appears to be a non-factor.

We thank for your support. My concern is Hofstra could be a sticking point even with the announcement yesterday of our basketball arena finally getting underway. Construction on that begins in the 2nd week of June with a completion date of October 2014.

[Sader87]

All vestiges of football having ever been played (or to be played in the future) have disappeared from Nickerson Field. HS playoffs aren't even played there anymore...no goal-posts, yard markers etc etc exist.

In all honesty, BU never really had a very good fan-base even when they were good some years. Crowds were rarely over 5,000 and that was in the 70's and 80's.

[DFW HOYA]

In all honesty, BU never really had a very good fan-base even when they were good some years. Crowds were rarely over 5,000 and that was in the 70's and 80's.

In 1995, (a 3-8 season, Dan Allen's last season there), the Terriers averaged 5,612 per game. That's more than Lafayette (4,737), Bucknell (4,257), Colgate (4,004), Fordham (4,791), or Georgetown (2,568) averaged this past season.

[Sader87]

Point being, BU was drawing crowds that size when HC and Harvard were drawing 15-20K most weeks then. How small would they be in 2012?

[DFW HOYA]

Probably in that PL range of 4500-5000 a game. From 1955-1977 BU won more than five games in a season just once, and the attendance numbers reflected that.

It also helps that HC was playing major college opponents during that era. Where once Holy Cross was playing BC and Army to great crowds, it now is left with playing Georgetown and Bucknell. HC drew just 3,873 for the Hoyas this past fall.

[theSarge]

The CAA will add Davidson, the College of Charleston, Stonybrook, Appalachian State and Furman for all sports. If Maine and New Hampshire balk at the moves south then you will see The Citadel and Elon also join the CAA. The Southern Conference is about to collapse unless they make move on the Big South football playing schools. Liberty is going to move to the WAC as silly as that sounds and Georgia Southern is in trouble as they do not have the funds to pull off a FBS run.

[MplsBison]

What's in it for the SoCon schools moving to the CAA? Both are one-bid leagues to the men's basketball tournament (now).

Just the money that VCU is leaving behind, which will be split up several ways?

[theSarge]

The CAA has a great new television deal with NBC. Also, the Academic reputations of the CAA schools is better across the board than that of the SoCon schools, so Davidson and C of C will prefer to associate with schools such as William & Mary, Northeastern, and Drexel.

[Seawolf97]

The CAA will add Davidson, the College of Charleston, Stonybrook, Appalachian State and Furman for all sports. If Maine and New Hampshire balk at the moves south then you will see The Citadel and Elon also join the CAA. The Southern Conference is about to collapse unless they make move on the Big South football playing schools. Liberty is going to move to the WAC as silly as that sounds and Georgia Southern is in trouble as they do not have the funds to pull off a FBS run.

This is an interesting statement . I thought the So Con was very stable and was willing to watch it's rival the CAA implode over time from the sidelines.. This summer should be very interesting indeed.

[Dane96]

Sarge, frankly, is talking out of his ***.

The NBC deal will be reworked...there is no need for the Southern schools to move except in an upward trajectory.

C of C is nowhere near the academic realm of NU & W&M. And Liberty to the on lifesupport WAC?!?!?!

It is the least thought out statement(s) I have seen on this board in weeks.

[theSarge]

Time will tell if my sources are correct.

[Dane96]

Dude...that's a bunch of ****. Time will tell. Of course this thing (realignment) has and will change with time. To come out with a statement as strong as yours...involves NETWORKS (NBC), MULTIPLE CONFERENCES, AD's, PRESIDENT'S, ETC....that will have so many moving parts in no way shape or form can your statement be correct today.

I am pretty sure of that.

As for Stony Brook...and I don't put too much stock in it, their AD released a statement today saying he hasn't YET ENGAGED...KEY...YET ENGAGED...in any conversation with any conference yet.

Fiore doesn't release statements "just cuz". He is a calculated (and I admire this aspect) son of a b. If he released that statement, I would bet he hasn't had formal or serious talks with anyone yet. Your statement rings of a foregone conclusion...one that may actually occur...but I may also be a millionaire one day.

Get it?!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The NBC deal will be reworked...there is no need for the Southern schools to move except in an upward trajectory.

Would it need to be reworked if they do indeed get Davidson and CoC? I have no special knowledge one way or another, but to say "the NBC deal will be reworked" a second after saying someone else is talking out their *** seems a bit rich.

[The Cats]

The CAA will add Davidson, the College of Charleston, Stonybrook, Appalachian State and Furman for all sports. If Maine and New Hampshire balk at the moves south then you will see The Citadel and Elon also join the CAA. The Southern Conference is about to collapse unless they make move on the Big South football playing schools. Liberty is going to move to the WAC as silly as that sounds and Georgia Southern is in trouble as they do not have the funds to pull off a FBS run.


Did you fall and hit your head or something?

[Seawolf97]

Time will tell if my sources are correct.

So will the Mayan Calendar question later this year. Really messes up basketball if they are right -LOLxlolx

[wmmii]

The loss of Georgia State was a blessing as they never were good fit. ODU exit was very much linked to them having the support of Terry Holland at ECU who Selig use to work for but was premature on their part. In reality these moves did not have nearly the impact on FB as they did on BB with VCU and ODU leaving. Think you will see a bigger emphasis on BB issue first with addition of two schools and as the CAA tournament is down to 7 schools this year due to academic issues with Towson and UNCW and the schools leaving being excluded.

The core football schools that have lead the CAA are mostly still here in Deleware,Richmond, JMU, WM, UNH, and Villinova! Got a lot of National Champs and playoff teams on that list.

[Dane96]

And I do believe SBU is a foregone conclusion...

[fc97]

everyone clearly forgets the caa visited elon two weeks ago, they also visited davidson and college of charleston

the target schools are clear

[wmmii]

Is Elon interested in moving?

[fc97]

the caa geographic area fits the elon student and alumni profile area much better, i dont know other than that

[Dane96]

everyone clearly forgets the caa visited elon two weeks ago, they also visited davidson and college of charleston

the target schools are clear


THIS!!!!

[Bogus Megapardus]

Davidson football in the CAA? Somehow I don't think so.

[Dane96]

No

The would keep them in the PFL.

[Bogus Megapardus]

No

They would keep them in the PFL.


Wouldn't CAA rules require "all in" were Davidson to become a full member?

[BlueHenSinfonian]

everyone clearly forgets the caa visited elon two weeks ago, they also visited davidson and college of charleston

the target schools are clear

Davidson and CofC make some sense just to add a couple basketball schools to offset the loss of VCU (I have to assume Davidson would continue football in the PFL), but what does the CAA gain from Elon?

Not that there is anything wrong with Elon really, but it's a much smaller school than most of the CAA football programs. Yes, the CAA already has Richmond which is similar in size and profile to Elon, but I have always thought Richmond was a bit of an odd duck in the CAA as well. URI dropped out of the CAA because they felt they couldn't keep up financially, and URI is about four times the size of Elon. Richmond also has the A-10 basketball revenue to help out (though so did URI...).

[Dane96]

Wouldn't CAA rules require "all in" were Davidson to become a full member?

Not if they don't offer scholly's, which Davidson adheres to.

[Dane96]

My guess...C of C, Davidson and Coastal will be the initial choice. Coastal solidifies football, brings a Top 30 baseball program, a new gym...and most importantly, appeases Wilmington.

Next group...BU, SBU...and outside shot of Albany.

But...that would required room in the conference, JMU and UD you are on "FBS DECK". Say hello to the MAC.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Davidson and CofC make some sense just to add a couple basketball schools to offset the loss of VCU (I have to assume Davidson would continue football in the PFL), but what does the CAA gain from Elon?

For football: Richmond, W&M, and JMU bus trips. For basketball: W&M, JMU, and UNCW bus trips.

[danefan]

There are a ton of potential combinations.

Two threshold questions for CAA leadership:

1. Do you go North, South or both?
2. Do you add in-town rivalries or tap new markets?

The various different answers will give you a boat load of potential schools.

[fc97]

elon sits at 6000 students fir next year, larger than richmond and slightly smaller than william and mary. school size has nothing to do with funding, look at wofford. elon, wofford and college if charleston would all be small on the caa side of things. they all fit the profile of current schools and all recruit and have large alumni areas in the caa footprint from virginia and north.

[The Cats]

There is no benifit to Davidson and CoC moving to the CAA now that VCU & ODU are gone. The CAA is now a one bid league, and the travel costs for the Olympic sports will be prohibitive. However, Elon might be interested in a move, since they target the NE for students.

[WestCoastAggie]

There are a ton of potential combinations.

Two threshold questions for CAA leadership:

1. Do you go North, South or both?
2. Do you add in-town rivalries or tap new markets?

The various different answers will give you a boat load of potential schools.

It appears that the CAA wants to keep things centralized in Virginia. There are some schools that you all are not talking about that are getting some SERIOUS considerations.

[Dane96]

Come on.

Norfolk...Hampton?


Not even on the radar right now with the other schools involved.

[WestCoastAggie]

Come on.

Norfolk...Hampton?


Not even on the radar right now with the other schools involved.

Trust me, I know it sounds and seems nuts, but...

xpopcornx

[Dane96]

I can verify...that is not the case. The schools currently on the radar:

1. C of C, Davidson and Coastal
2. Elon and High Point (yes, shocker of the latter)
3. Cleveland State and Wright State have been discussed (hoops obviously)
4. Stony Brook and BU (these two facing membership disdain- NU and HU)

[GlassOnion]

College of Charleston to me is the rich man's UNCW, with a better basketball team, academics, and almost identical enrollment at 12,000. Parts of Wilmington are very reminiscent of Charleston as well, but then Wilmington has a very high crime rate for its size.

[ASUMountaineer]

I can verify...that is not the case. The schools currently on the radar:

1. C of C, Davidson and Coastal
2. Elon and High Point (yes, shocker of the latter)
3. Cleveland State and Wright State have been discussed (hoops obviously)
4. Stony Brook and BU (these two facing membership disdain- NU and HU)

Not too big of a shocker on HPU. I am from right outside of High Point, and they have been growing and building like crazy. They are catching Elon, and doing it in a similar way by recruiting students from the north and northeast. They're president has said that has been the focus of the university. My aunt graduated from then High Point College, and in my lifetime the place has transformed.

[WestCoastAggie]

Doesn't HPU have aspirations of starting Football? I wanted to apply to their Athletic Admin. Master's Program when I graduated from A&T.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I can verify...that is not the case. The schools currently on the radar:

1. C of C, Davidson and Coastal
2. Elon and High Point (yes, shocker of the latter)
3. Cleveland State and Wright State have been discussed (hoops obviously)
4. Stony Brook and BU (these two facing membership disdain- NU and HU)

Cleveland State is an extremely interesting candidate. Not only are they a hoops school, but they've also been thinking about starting an FCS football program. So far, the discussion has centered around PFL membership - but might they consider full-scholly and CAA football?

Another real interesting development is the thought that Hampton and/or Norfolk State is in the mix. Personally, I think NSU is more dedicated to FCS playoffs, so IMVHO they'd have to top Hampton for consideration in my opinion. Adding to their cachet is their big upset in the first round last year in the NCAA's, and they are literally in Old Dominion's backyard.

[Dane96]

Not too big of a shocker on HPU. I am from right outside of High Point, and they have been growing and building like crazy. They are catching Elon, and doing it in a similar way by recruiting students from the north and northeast. They're president has said that has been the focus of the university. My aunt graduated from then High Point College, and in my lifetime the place has transformed.

To me it was a shocker. Then after long discussions last night with a few people, I came to understand their Northeast focus (Westchester, LI and Rockland County in particular).

[fc97]

yes but high point's academics are sliding in the extreme growth. they are becoming less selective just to increase numbers

[ASUMountaineer]

Doesn't HPU have aspirations of starting Football? I wanted to apply to their Athletic Admin. Master's Program when I graduated from A&T.

They may, I'm not sure on that. I have a buddy that got his Master's in Athletic Admin there, even interned at ASU. He's now working in finance and pursuing an MBA.

[ASUMountaineer]

To me it was a shocker. Then after long discussions last night with a few people, I came to understand their Northeast focus (Westchester, LI and Rockland County in particular).

Yeah, it's a relatively new focus (last few years), but they are raking in the cash.

[ASUMountaineer]

yes but high point's academics are sliding in the extreme growth. they are becoming less selective just to increase numbers

I wouldn't be surprised, and honestly, I don't know why anyone would want to go there. Maybe it's because I'm from around there, but it's not in a good part of town and I just don't find High Point to be that great of a town. But, to each their own...

[GlassOnion]

Do HPU students get the same state subsidy that Elon students get?

[Humble Steward]

Come on.

Norfolk...Hampton?


Not even on the radar right now with the other schools involved.

You will be surprisedxcoffeex.

[fc97]

only residents get the tuition grant

so if its a north carolina resident, then yes, same with all the in state private schools

[GlassOnion]

only residents get the tuition grant

so if its a north carolina resident, then yes, same with all the in state private schools

Which means Elon and HPU tuition will jump by nearly $2,000 next year. The General Assembly has cut it.

[fc97]

it will jump for in state kids, then, but tuition doesnt jump, it just means scholarships or other items will have to cover it

but it was a grant that was abused by out of state kids, all you had to do was have in-state residence for one year to get it. so most out of state kids who had no intention of living in nc long term would buy or rent a house or apartment, establish residence for the duration of school, get the grant and then leave

to me this was not the spirit of what the grant was about,

[superman7515]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/web/COM1199070/1/index.htm


Can the CAA offer a better situation? Commissioner Tom Yeager, who declined to comment for this story, is targeting the SoCon's Davidson, College of Charleston and Appalachian State as replacements for his lost teams, according to a source. The CAA has been superior to the SoCon in basketball, earning multiple NCAA tournament bids in 2006, 2007 and 2011, and sending George Mason to the Final Four in 2006 and VCU in 2011, both as No. 11 seeds. The CAA has a new TV deal with NBC Sports Network (the financial terms are undisclosed), and received a bigger payout from the NCAA's Basketball Distribution Fund ($3.4 million) in 2011 than did the SoCon ($2.2 million).

But with its two most frequent top-50 RPI teams, VCU and Old Dominion, on their way out, the CAA is not going to be the same conference. It's liable to take an RPI hit that puts it in danger of being a one-bid league -- and that's something that weighs heavily on McKillop's mind.

"A multi-bid league is something that we aspire to be a part of," he said. "But how do you guarantee that? Well, you join the ACC or the Big East. I've jokingly told our school president that. I'm smart enough to understand that it isn't happening. So, with the dominoes falling, and everything being so volatile now, who's to say what's going to be a two-bid league at the mid-major level? It's going to be a roll of the dice in many respects."

[Lehigh Football Nation]

McKillop has been moaning about the possibility about joining the CAA now for more than a week, which leads me to believe that it's imminent.

I also love to see him wail about travel costs, when in 2010 his Wildcats took trips to NYC, Puerto Rico, Philadelphia, and Rhode Island for OOC games.:

http://www.davidsonwildcats.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball&schedule=80


"You have to ask yourself, how do you get that at-large bid?" McKillop said. "Do you depend on a conference to be the platform for it, or do you roll up your sleeves like Gonzaga did and create the kind of schedule that gives you the opportunity for not just an [at-large] bid, but for a high seed as well? Gonzaga, to me, is a tremendous story about a team elevating the status of a conference."

But therein lies the problem. Gonzaga did that by playing anyone, anyplace, anywhere - and made cross-country trips to do it. Also, the WCC spans from southern Cal to Washington - hardly a compact conference, or a conference light on travel costs. Also, it's not like the WCC was filled with chumps. St. Mary's was always pretty good, as were others.

[DFW HOYA]

But therein lies the problem. Gonzaga did that by playing anyone, anyplace, anywhere - and made cross-country trips to do it. Also, the WCC spans from southern Cal to Washington - hardly a compact conference, or a conference light on travel costs. Also, it's not like the WCC was filled with chumps. St. Mary's was always pretty good, as were others.

The WCC is the MAAC of the West--a conference of mostly Catholic schools who dropped football to prop up hoops programs that have seen better days.

USF, Santa Clara, Loyola Marymount...all are a nod to a different era, when the NCAA Western regional was UCLA, Wyoming, Weber State, and a couple Catholic independents, but not any more. Much as the top recruits have long since passed by Niagara, Canisius, or Manhattan, so too with St. Mary's, Pepperdine, or Portland.

By contrast, Gonzaga estabished an identity by playing outside the WCC footprint, while the others are happy to stay within it.

[Dane96]

Ummm...St. Mary's?

Suggest- FACT CHECK and AUSSIE Pipeline.

[Go...gate]

McKillop has been moaning about the possibility about joining the CAA now for more than a week, which leads me to believe that it's imminent.

I also love to see him wail about travel costs, when in 2010 his Wildcats took trips to NYC, Puerto Rico, Philadelphia, and Rhode Island for OOC games.:

http://www.davidsonwildcats.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball&schedule=80

But therein lies the problem. Gonzaga did that by playing anyone, anyplace, anywhere - and made cross-country trips to do it. Also, the WCC spans from southern Cal to Washington - hardly a compact conference, or a conference light on travel costs. Also, it's not like the WCC was filled with chumps. St. Mary's was always pretty good, as were others.

I presume that if DC did this they would stay in the Pioneer for FB....

[bluehenbillk]

I presume that if DC did this they would stay in the Pioneer for FB....

Yes, I would agree with that assumption.

[Dane96]

New article out. I think it's wishful thinking right now. But...if this occurs (and I know many at Davidson are AGAINST THE CAA move) then BU would be in...and the football conference would be just stupid, as in...OMG...you have a strong argument that this is the best league potential in the nation on a year in and out basis.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/sports...-m-ar-1956944/

CAA Football:

Maine
UNH
Albany
Stony Brook
Villanova
Delaware

Towson
Richmond
JMU
W&M
App State
Coastal Carolina

At worst, App State is a UMASS substitute, though I'd argue App State is way beyond UMASS in the last 10 years. Stony Brook and Albany are both upgrades over URI and Ga. State. And Coastal...is at the same level as both SBU and Albany at the minimum.

This...would be super insane!!! And I am adding four teams because if they add APP State, they don't add travel easement to the North...so at that point, they will go all in and add 3 more teams to get to 12.

[aceinthehole]

I don't see App St making the move sideways from the SoCon to the CAA when their real goal is FBS.

I do think Stony Brook is practically a given for CAA Football #9. Albany and Coastal are then the next 2 in line for football.

Agree, if the SoCon teams (Charleston/Davidson) say no, then the CAA has no choice but to look to AE and Big South teams as targets (Boston, Winthrop, etc.)

[danefan]

Yeah that conference is too good to be true.

[The Cats]

CofC may take the bait, then they could be the "saviors of the CAA"" as well.

[fc97]

again, you all forget that coastal has not been visited or contacted while elon, charleston, davidson and stony brook have

all articles with no information aside, the caa has chosen their targets for now

[Seawolf97]

I just have a gut feeling that Elon makes a lateral move and a welcome move to the CAA. Interesting to see how this all plays out in the next few months.

[Dane96]

again, you all forget that coastal has not been visited or contacted while elon, charleston, davidson and stony brook have

all articles with no information aside, the caa has chosen their targets for now

Stony Brook has not had a visit.

The others have.

The conference will end up being elon, c of c, davidson and SBU football only.

[Dane96]

I just have a gut feeling that Elon makes a lateral move and a welcome move to the CAA. Interesting to see how this all plays out in the next few months.

Weeks...my source who has been on point through the whole thing says couple weeks. Let's see.

[fc97]

i have a feeling the colonial wants long term stability, i dont get the feeling any partial members come, itll be all or nothing. apparently at the socon meetings there were some votes and elon, charleston and davdison were swing vites for the first time ever as a group

stony brook makes too much sense, but is hofstra really fighting against? coastal doesnt fit the profile but might be an outside shot. high point doesnt fit the profile at all.

[zilla]

i have a feeling the colonial wants long term stability, i dont get the feeling any partial members come, itll be all or nothing. apparently at the socon meetings there were some votes and elon, charleston and davdison were swing vites for the first time ever as a group

stony brook makes too much sense, but is hofstra really fighting against? coastal doesnt fit the profile but might be an outside shot. high point doesnt fit the profile at all.

fc, who would the SoCon target if Elon, Davidson, & CofC departed for the Colonial?

[Seawolf97]

I could fully understand why Hofstra would object to SBU moving into the CAA and alot of that objection would come from their Univ. Pres. For the fans and the teams it would be a natural rivalry since the schools are only 30 miles apart and the local media would play it well for both programs. For SBU in football it has been Liberty as our rival just by looking at how the Big South always manages to schedule both teams as the last game of the season for a quasi conference championship game if you will. In the AE it has always been Albany in olympic sports. I dont know if Hofstra has a true rival in the CAA across all sports right now. So a Hofstra -SBU matchup in baseball, lax etc draws alot of attention locally, especially lacrosse. But Hofstra has a new AD who may well see the benefit of having a team to the east as their arch rival. Just dont know their thinking or how strong their voice will be.

[Dane96]

i have a feeling the colonial wants long term stability, i dont get the feeling any partial members come, itll be all or nothing. apparently at the socon meetings there were some votes and elon, charleston and davdison were swing vites for the first time ever as a group

stony brook makes too much sense, but is hofstra really fighting against? coastal doesnt fit the profile but might be an outside shot. high point doesnt fit the profile at all.

FC...football is a private entity. The partial member has no effect. Here is the deal. The Davidson, Charleston and Elon route satisfies the hoop schools and the football schools (elon) and keeps the league Southern for all-sports, which is what the league wants. Furman has also had serious discussions.

Stony Brook shores up football and gives the CAA protection if and when (it's not an if, more likely a when) JMU and/or UD move on to FBS.

Schools next in the pecking order are Coastal and Albany from what I understand...in no particular order.

Hofstra absolutely is fighting against SBU. SBU has too much power, money etc...and will dwarf Hofstra very quickly. Further, the bloc is real...it is HU, NU and Drexel. They are all protecting their northern travel...markets...etc. Drexel is a more of a "we are sticking with our brethern schools from the North) than having a real dog in the fight. NU and HU absolute do not want BU or SBU as the league is currently constructed.

However, will the rest of the CAA push the issue on them is the current discussion.

[Dane96]

Seawolf...hit on it perfectly!!! It's an image thing.

It's why Siena wouldn't want Albany in their conference...same concept

[Lehigh Football Nation]

NU and HU absolute do not want BU or SBU as the league is currently constructed.

Wouldn't it be fascinating if the Patriot League leapt at this opportunity to offer both schools, BU and SBU, in all sports? Talk about a play to become an instant player in Northeast football and basketball, and talk about taking advantage of an opportunity based on pure politics.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

FWIW I'd bet a duck dinner that Davidson to the CAA is going to happen.

[Dane96]

Agreed. If Davidson didn't want in...they would have withdrew already. The issue is McKillop. Convincing him. Right now he has an easy route to the tourney. In the CAA much harder.

[youwouldno]

I have no inside information but I still would be shocked if any SoCon member left for the CAA. Having discussions is one thing. The instability of the CAA is a major risk because there is a real possibility of being totally screwed only a few years in the future. My guess is that they add Coastal, SBU, and Albany.

[MplsBison]

Elon is 190mi to Richmond and Charleston is 170 mi to Wilmington. Adds 2 members and a football member.

Done and done.

[danefan]

Adding Elon and Stony Brook makes for 10 in the football conference. Wouldnt make sense at that point to add 2 more football only and go back to divisions?

North
Albany
Stony Brook
Maine
New Hampshire
Villanova
Delaware

South
Coastal Carolina
Elon
Towson
William & Mary
Richmond
James Madison

[fc97]

if elon, davidson and charleston are a done deal, whats the story on furman

[MplsBison]

if elon, davidson and charleston are a done deal, whats the story on furman

Davidson has an easy path to the NCAA MBB tournament in the SoCon.

Furman has great football games with GA So, App St and Wofford.

[Seawolf97]

Wouldn't it be fascinating if the Patriot League leapt at this opportunity to offer both schools, BU and SBU, in all sports? Talk about a play to become an instant player in Northeast football and basketball, and talk about taking advantage of an opportunity based on pure politics.

This would be interesting except for the AI. I dont see SBU very interested in the PL with that roadblock.

[Tribe4SF]

This would be interesting except for the AI. I dont see SBU very interested in the PL with that roadblock.

Or the no-redshirt rule.

[MplsBison]

Or the no-redshirt rule.

Side discussion: red-shirts should be abolished, anyway. Any division I athlete should have a five year window to compete in five consecutive seasons. End.

[PantherRob82]

Wouldn't it be fascinating if the Patriot League leapt at this opportunity to offer both schools, BU and SBU, in all sports? Talk about a play to become an instant player in Northeast football and basketball, and talk about taking advantage of an opportunity based on pure politics.

What do SBU and BU offer in basketball? Also not sure SBU would really improve the Patriot for football. Still mostly a one bid league.

[clenz]

What do SBU and BU offer in basketball? Also not sure SBU would really improve the Patriot for football. Still mostly a one bid league.

Not just basketball but baseball, womens basketball, track/xc, golf, LAX, rowing, soccer, softball, tennis, swimming, volleyball, wrestling?


I realize that football/mens basketball is what is driving these things, but conferences are also looking at the non revenue sports due to travel costs and competitiveness. No reason to expand the footprint so that your soccer/softball/tennis teams have to travel extra distance for sports against teams that aren't up to the level of play as everyone else.

[Tribal]

SBU's RPI was better than Providence, Delaware, American, St. Johns, Charlotte, Wake Forest, GA Tech, etc. They would be an asset in football, basketball, and academics.

[fc97]

can someone other the mplsbison answer about furman

the elon, davidson and charleston thing is well documented at this point as being visited by colonial people with talks occurring

stony brook, coastal, albany and high point are all rumored to want it, but no visits have been made

now, the dane fan has rumored that furman is on the radar. i know what furman has to offer, but, whats the story on the furman rumor. is the caa in contact? is furman in contact with the caa?

davidson gives basketball but gets a harder path to ncaa, charlotte metro
charleston gives backetball and baseball, charleston metro
elon gives a football, baseball and the triad/triangle metros
furman gives football, soccer and the greenville metro
stony brook seems logical, gives football and basketball but doesn't give a new metro

all are the academic profiles that the colonial wants to maintain

[BlueHenSinfonian]

can someone other the mplsbison answer about furman

the elon, davidson and charleston thing is well documented at this point as being visited by colonial people with talks occurring

stony brook, coastal, albany and high point are all rumored to want it, but no visits have been made

now, the dane fan has rumored that furman is on the radar. i know what furman has to offer, but, whats the story on the furman rumor. is the caa in contact? is furman in contact with the caa?

davidson gives basketball but gets a harder path to ncaa, charlotte metro
charleston gives backetball and baseball, charleston metro
elon gives a football, baseball and the triad/triangle metros
furman gives football, soccer and the greenville metro
stony brook seems logical, gives football and basketball but doesn't give a new metro

all are the academic profiles that the colonial wants to maintain

Stony brings in NYC for football. If Hofstra doesn't want SBU to join they only have themselves to blame for killing off football.

As far as basketball goes the CAA doesn't want to be a one bid league. VCU's departure was very short sighted there - the A10 tends to get more bids right now, but the CAA has been flirting with multiple bids off and on, and VCU had a huge advantage with the CAA tournament right next to campus.

With Drexel, Davidson, GMU, and CofC the CAA will still have multiple strong basketball programs right now, plus schools like Delaware, W&M, and JMU that have the resources and wherewithal to take their basketball programs to the next level. Two bids per year regularly and three in strong years in the near future isn't out of the question for the CAA.

[youwouldno]

can someone other the mplsbison answer about furman

the elon, davidson and charleston thing is well documented at this point as being visited by colonial people with talks occurring

stony brook, coastal, albany and high point are all rumored to want it, but no visits have been made

now, the dane fan has rumored that furman is on the radar. i know what furman has to offer, but, whats the story on the furman rumor. is the caa in contact? is furman in contact with the caa?

davidson gives basketball but gets a harder path to ncaa, charlotte metro
charleston gives backetball and baseball, charleston metro
elon gives a football, baseball and the triad/triangle metros
furman gives football, soccer and the greenville metro
stony brook seems logical, gives football and basketball but doesn't give a new metro

all are the academic profiles that the colonial wants to maintain

Moving to the CAA seems dubious for any SoCon member but would be really questionable for anyone who plays football. The mere fact the CAA is looking at basketball-only schools says a lot. Davidson is basically a zero athletically except for one man (McKillop). It's a short-term desperation move to target them. In the past five years, here are the CAA schools that have finished in the top 100 in Sagarin:

VCU, 5 times
ODU, 3 times
Drexel, 3 times
GMU, 2 times
NE, 2 times
Ga St., 2 times
W&M, once
JMU, once

That's an impressive 19, compared to the SoCon's rather sad 6. The problem is that the CAA will no longer include teams that combined for 10 of the 19. That narrows the gap to 9-6. More attrition is very possible in the future.

The logic for Davidson and CoC would be that, while weakened, the CAA is at least focused primarily on basketball. I don't see what the argument would be for Elon, Furman, etc. Get blasted in basketball for a few years and then be orphaned when the CAA football conference disintegrates? Sounds like a great plan.

[Tribal]

The thought behind inviting a "basketball only" program is to appease UNC-W, GMU, Hofstra, and Drexel.

[Dane96]

Stony brings in NYC for football. If Hofstra doesn't want SBU to join they only have themselves to blame for killing off football.

As far as basketball goes the CAA doesn't want to be a one bid league. VCU's departure was very short sighted there - the A10 tends to get more bids right now, but the CAA has been flirting with multiple bids off and on, and VCU had a huge advantage with the CAA tournament right next to campus.

With Drexel, Davidson, GMU, and CofC the CAA will still have multiple strong basketball programs right now, plus schools like Delaware, W&M, and JMU that have the resources and wherewithal to take their basketball programs to the next level. Two bids per year regularly and three in strong years in the near future isn't out of the question for the CAA.

Sorry...Stony Brook does not bring NYC. They are a footnote like every other team not named St. John's, Seton Hall, Rutgers, UCONN, Syracuse, Michigan and Notre Dame.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What do SBU and BU offer in basketball? Also not sure SBU would really improve the Patriot for football. Still mostly a one bid league.

SBU is very serious about building their football program. What they've done in their time in the Big South in football has been remarkable. I know it's a small sample set, but I've taken notice about their rise, and I know others have as well.

Since SBU is in America East, changing to the PL might actually reduce travel costs somewhat since their Olympic sports are now travelling to Maine, NH and Vermont on a regular basis. Lax would be upgraded for sure. But, as others have mentioned, the PL has rules on academics and redshirting that most likely make it a non-starter.

In basketball you get a couple of mid-range programs (based on RPI) but definitely ones with potential. They're not powerhouses, but they're not NJIT either.

[MplsBison]

Sorry...Stony Brook does not bring NYC. They are a footnote like every other team not named St. John's, Seton Hall, Rutgers, UCONN, Syracuse, Michigan and Notre Dame.

You knew what he meant. So sorry Albany is "up-state" while Stony Brook is in the NYC metro.

I know anything that makes it seem like Albany is less important in the state really chaps your rear, but are you really going to deny geography?

[Dane96]

Ummm...why don't you let him speak for himself? This has nothing to do with Albany...and I grew up in NYC, worked in advertising in the City for two years primarily focusing on the university segment with a particular interest in athletic departments (Game Day media and internet).

The argument he posed has been posed by others for years. The NYC market is a red herring in general. It's a pro-sports town, and certain schools will own it in limited capacity.

What SBU brings is the SUFFOLK COUNTY market...which is quite large (2mm), and potentially the Nassau County market, but most in Nassau County are former city people.

To say they will bring NYC media and fanbase is just not accurate. The town will always be a town of the teams I have mentioned, and locally speaking St. John's.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I will believe any SoCon school would be interested in the CAA when I see the move become official. I just don't see the advantage in moving to the CAA, especially CofC, Elon, and App. And this talk of the CAA raiding the SoCon into oblivion is really comical.

[MplsBison]

Ummm...why don't you let him speak for himself? This has nothing to do with Albany...and I grew up in NYC, worked in advertising in the City for two years primarily focusing on the university segment with a particular interest in athletic departments (Game Day media and internet).

The argument he posed has been posed by others for years. The NYC market is a red herring in general. It's a pro-sports town, and certain schools will own it in limited capacity.

What SBU brings is the SUFFOLK COUNTY market...which is quite large (2mm), and potentially the Nassau County market, but most in Nassau County are former city people.

To say they will bring NYC media and fanbase is just not accurate. The town will always be a town of the teams I have mentioned, and locally speaking St. John's.

He was speaking for himself, which I correctly defended against you putting incorrect words in his mouth.

Stony Brook is in the NYC metro. Therefore he is correct, the CAA would be in the NYC metro by having a team physically in the metro area.

[Dane96]

I am not playing your stupid game.

HE SAID STONY BROOK WOULD BRING THE NYC METRO AREA.

There is not a shred of emperical proof of such.

Suffolk County is not ever, nor ever has been, discussed as the NYC metro area. It is included in the "TRI-STATE METRO AREA" that includes Connecticut and NJ.

Therefore, any media argument will bring in St. John's, Seton Hall (down the proverbial totem pole even for hoops), UCONN and Rutgers. Notre Dame and Michigan have massive alumni presence/game presence in NYC (among others) and receive considerable coverage, the latter much less than the former. Syracuse has proclaimed themselves as "NY's team" and advertises like crazy down in the City.

Then you have your outliers such as Columbia, Yale, Manhattan, Hofstra...and arguably Stony Brook.

Point is...NONE OF THOSE ARE BRINGING ANY SORT OF IMPACT MARKET SHARE TO THE CAA...including Hofstra with the two sports that matter in NYC on a collegiate level: Hoops and Football. The argument is dead in the water if you consider that Hofstra already brings the CAA the NYC market under any argument that a team from LI can bring that market.

I will not answer any further assinine posts from you on the subject. CLEAR AS DAY WHAT BLUEHEN MEANT...and CLEAR AS DAY MY REBUTTAL.

[MplsBison]

Factually wrong, don't care if you don't reply. Good - actually, I can educate readers of your falseness.

"New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA Metropolitan Statistical Area" us a US census defined term. Look up, smarty pants.

To which, Suffolk county belongs. END.

[Dane96]

Ok...whatever you say there Chief-O-Roonie. US Census...lol...ok buddy. Yeah, I could find that too on Wikipedia. Now go find what MEDIA BUYERS USE. Oh wait, forgot...they don't have that on a Wiki page. Or wait, better yet...does that quote say "New York-Northern NJ-LI, NY-NJ-PA NYC METROPOLITAN AREA. No, it does not.

Can it be that the Census doesn't apply to actual business use...or even governmental bodies?! (Hand to mouth in utter shock).

Go back to that rock in North Dakota you live under.

And no disrespect to the fine folk of North Dakota (except that you have to put up with this nozzle living in your fine State).

[DFW HOYA]

Factually wrong, don't care if you don't reply. Good - actually, I can educate readers of your falseness. "New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA Metropolitan Statistical Area" us a US census defined term. Look up, smarty pants. To which, Suffolk county belongs. END.

MSA's can be expansive. Milford, PA is also in the New York MSA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pike_County,_Pennsylvania

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I never knew I lived in the NYC metro area!

[whitey]

CAA league meetings started today. We'll find out a lot by the end of this week methinks.

[Dane96]

I never knew I lived in the NYC metro area!

Exactly. Aren't you luck though...you don't have to pay the what, 8.5% sales tax, the other ungodly use taxes and the NYC payroll tax.

;)

[Dane96]

CAA league meetings started today. We'll find out a lot by the end of this week methinks.

Concur. I'd expect invites in the next two weeks.

I will say this, SBU helped their all-sport cause by ending up in the Regional Final down in Florida for baseball. One more game away from the Super Regional.

[MplsBison]

Ok...whatever you say there Chief-O-Roonie. US Census...lol...ok buddy. Yeah, I could find that too on Wikipedia. Now go find what MEDIA BUYERS USE. Oh wait, forgot...they don't have that on a Wiki page. Or wait, better yet...does that quote say "New York-Northern NJ-LI, NY-NJ-PA NYC METROPOLITAN AREA. No, it does not.

Can it be that the Census doesn't apply to actual business use...or even governmental bodies?! (Hand to mouth in utter shock).

Go back to that rock in North Dakota you live under.

And no disrespect to the fine folk of North Dakota (except that you have to put up with this nozzle living in your fine State).

There is no "Mpls" in ND that I'm aware of. I didn't realize those who work in marketing are so anti-geography.

[MplsBison]

MSA's can be expansive. Milford, PA is also in the New York MSA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pike_County,_Pennsylvania

Ok?

[MplsBison]

CAA league meetings started today. We'll find out a lot by the end of this week methinks.

C of C and Elon.

[whitey]

I will believe any SoCon school would be interested in the CAA when I see the move become official. I just don't see the advantage in moving to the CAA, especially CofC, Elon, and App. And this talk of the CAA raiding the SoCon into oblivion is really comical.

The CAA, even after the departures of VCU and ODU provides a much greater chance for an NCAA at-large as well as potential more bids to the NIT than the SoCon. Additionally the CAA has a TV deal with NBC sports that will provide national coverage. From that perspective it could make a lot of sense for College of Charleston and Davidson.

There are a lot of pros and cons to moving for these three specific schools. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

[whitey]

C of C and Elon.

CAA needs to add three schools to get back up to 12. If one of the three rumored schools pass it'll be interesting to see what plan B is (assuming CofC, Davidson and Elon are plan A).

[whitey]

To be honest, I still don't get what Elon brings to the table for the CAA. This is not meant to be a knock on Elon. It's a great school and one of which I've actually visited as my sister-in-law and brother-in-law are graduates from there.

Elon's basketball has been probably worse than JMUs for a while now and that's saying something. Football has been decent the last few years though. But if the moves are to shore up the basketball end then I don't get it.....? If I'm Elon I'd jump at this chance. Elon draws so many students from the Mid-Atlantic through North Carolina that it's basically a no-brainer especially if a couple of fellow SoCon schools move with.

[youwouldno]

The CAA, even after the departures of VCU and ODU provides a much greater chance for an NCAA at-large as well as potential more bids to the NIT than the SoCon. Additionally the CAA has a TV deal with NBC sports that will provide national coverage. From that perspective it could make a lot of sense for College of Charleston and Davidson.

There are a lot of pros and cons to moving for these three specific schools. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

The chance of either getting an at-large is pretty minimal regardless of conference. Winning the SoCon tourney is a much easier path, as McKillop has pointed out.

[whitey]

The chance of either getting an at-large is pretty minimal regardless of conference. Winning the SoCon tourney is a much easier path, as McKillop has pointed out.

Winning the SoCon does make for an easier path to the auto bid. I'm not going to argue that at all. However, there are a ton of teams that drag down the SoCon's RPI much like JMU has been dragging down the CAAs RPI lately. Despite that CofC and Davidson still come out with top 100-ish RPIs. The CAA has less RPI killers in it's league than the SoCon. That's not debatable. Davidson and CofC could very well improve their RPI situation with a move. Which could then lead to better access to post season tournaments. That's all I'm saying.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Here's what I don't understand. If the autobid is the be-all and end-all, why wouldn't Davidson join the SWAC? They'd win the autobid every year. Which is why it's an intrinsically ridiculous argument. If conference strength didn't matter, Butler and VCU wouldn't have joined the A-10.

[fc97]

because being in the swac is not the best for davidson's image. mckillop may wany an easy path to the ncaa but the president or board is the one making the decisions, not even the ad makes it

i thought I pretty much laid it out
davidson brings basketball and charlotte market
elon brings descent football, good baseball and the triangle/triad market

the caa has been focused on getting good schools as well as expanding the markets the last few times it expanded.

charleston brings good basketball and good baseball and the sc market

all three given uncw and william and mary short travel type games and all three recruit heavily in areas that is caa territory when compared to socon territory and all are known university names in the caa area

who knows, maybe it is one, none or all

[fc97]

my guess is the caa is doing a balancing act. they want to shore up basketball but they dont want to abandon football either, the caa wants to be proactive about football, something the socon doesnt seem to be wanting to do

[Tribal]

I will believe any SoCon school would be interested in the CAA when I see the move become official. I just don't see the advantage in moving to the CAA, especially CofC, Elon, and App. And this talk of the CAA raiding the SoCon into oblivion is really comical.

3 CAA schools are moving to the FBS and two more could leave any minute. I'm not saying it's a valid reason, but SoCon schools with FBS aspirations may look at the CAA as an entry point to a FBS invitation. Basketball is stronger in the CAA, too...or was, anyway.

[Tribal]

The CAA had better invite Stony Brook (good FB, BB, and academics). They need to push for Davidson (BB only), CoC, and maybe a PL team. That would put the CAA on the right track. Elon should be a last ditch effort and I'll be damned if I want to see my team have to prepare for their option every year.

[kdinva]

..... Elon should be a last ditch effort and I'll be damned if I want to see my team have to prepare for their option every year.

Aren't you thinking about Wofford?

[andy7171]

Ok...whatever you say there Chief-O-Roonie. US Census...lol...ok buddy. Yeah, I could find that too on Wikipedia. Now go find what MEDIA BUYERS USE. Oh wait, forgot...they don't have that on a Wiki page. Or wait, better yet...does that quote say "New York-Northern NJ-LI, NY-NJ-PA NYC METROPOLITAN AREA. No, it does not.

Can it be that the Census doesn't apply to actual business use...or even governmental bodies?! (Hand to mouth in utter shock).

Go back to that rock in North Dakota you live under.

And no disrespect to the fine folk of North Dakota (except that you have to put up with this nozzle living in your fine State).

Good to see something here are still the same. MPLS LOL!

[youwouldno]

Winning the SoCon does make for an easier path to the auto bid. I'm not going to argue that at all. However, there are a ton of teams that drag down the SoCon's RPI much like JMU has been dragging down the CAAs RPI lately. Despite that CofC and Davidson still come out with top 100-ish RPIs. The CAA has less RPI killers in it's league than the SoCon. That's not debatable. Davidson and CofC could very well improve their RPI situation with a move. Which could then lead to better access to post season tournaments. That's all I'm saying.

Well last year Towson was worse than anyone in the SoCon and W&M was worse than everyone save Citadel. The CAA certainly has been far superior to the SoCon but the key factor has been the consistent presence of several quality teams on top. The top teams have been able to get 'quality wins' against each other that are a huge component for the selection committee.

A lot of those opportunities are gone now with ODU, VCU, and Ga. State. The conference can still be solid, but more like the MAC or Horizon where there is a competitive middle group but only one or two really good teams at a time. Getting impressive wins will generally require the traditionally difficult path of road games against power conference teams.

[MplsBison]

The CAA is no longer going to get an at large team in the tournament. Even if a team goes undefeated in the conference, if they lose in the tournament - well, that's the bitch of the thing.

So that said, why should Davidson make it harder on themselves to get to the tournament each year? Why burn bridges with the SoCon, why rock the boat when getting to the tournament is the only way anyone knows about your school?


Only way would be if they get significantly more money in the CAA. Not saying that's not possible.


If there were chances for at larges in the CAA, then it would be another story. That's why VCU and Butler left for the A10 - much easier to get an at large in that league.

[fc97]

the loss of vcu and odu hurt the caa, what doesnt bring it to its knees

bring in charleston and davidson and they both get conference rpi help and it fills some of the gaps

the caa will go back to a 2 bid league but won't be a 3 bid league, sure

[asumike83]

the caa will go back to a 2 bid league but won't be a 3 bid league, sure

The CAA has gotten 3 bids one time, which was 2011. 2 of those teams were ODU and VCU.

[whitey]

Well last year Towson was worse than anyone in the SoCon and W&M was worse than everyone save Citadel. The CAA certainly has been far superior to the SoCon but the key factor has been the consistent presence of several quality teams on top. The top teams have been able to get 'quality wins' against each other that are a huge component for the selection committee.

A lot of those opportunities are gone now with ODU, VCU, and Ga. State. The conference can still be solid, but more like the MAC or Horizon where there is a competitive middle group but only one or two really good teams at a time. Getting impressive wins will generally require the traditionally difficult path of road games against power conference teams.

Georgia State had one decent year. Let's leave them out of the discussion as they are completely irrelevant.

Yes, with VCU and ODU leaving it certainly hurts. But my point remains. Pretty much the entire SoCon except for Davidson and CofC (and occasionally Wofford) consistently post 200-ish RPIs. This kills RPIs. The SoCon rarely, if ever, has any other teams within the conference that actually help your RPI. This is not the case with the CAA. Even with VCU and ODU leaving the CAA will still have a number of teams that are actually RPI helpers instead of killers.

I'm not saying the CAA will be a NCAA 2-bid league every year. That's not going to be the case. But the CAA will consistently put a team or two in the NIT which can't be said for the SoCon. The CAA has had 14 teams in the NIT the last 10 years to the SoCon's 6.

[danefan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL5oL8o-IP8&sns=em

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL5oL8o-IP8&sns=em

Meeting recaps from CAA Football conference meetings.

[MplsBison]

Georgia State had one decent year. Let's leave them out of the discussion as they are completely irrelevant.

Yes, with VCU and ODU leaving it certainly hurts. But my point remains. Pretty much the entire SoCon except for Davidson and CofC (and occasionally Wofford) consistently post 200-ish RPIs. This kills RPIs. The SoCon rarely, if ever, has any other teams within the conference that actually help your RPI. This is not the case with the CAA. Even with VCU and ODU leaving the CAA will still have a number of teams that are actually RPI helpers instead of killers.

I'm not saying the CAA will be a NCAA 2-bid league every year. That's not going to be the case. But the CAA will consistently put a team or two in the NIT which can't be said for the SoCon. The CAA has had 14 teams in the NIT the last 10 years to the SoCon's 6.

That's the selling point for Davidson? A better chance to be in the NIT? Come on.

Even NDSU made it to one of those joke non-NCAA post-season tournaments. And you thought 32 bowl games was bad!! The Summit Leauge - about as low major as you can get - got 5, FIVE teams in post-season tournaments last year.

[danefan]

Relevant here...Stony Brook just won the Coral Gables regional in the baseball tournament. Taking on LSU in the Super Regional.

CAA could become a very strong baseball conference with SBU, Coastal, C of C and Elon.

[youwouldno]

Georgia State had one decent year. Let's leave them out of the discussion as they are completely irrelevant.

Yes, with VCU and ODU leaving it certainly hurts. But my point remains. Pretty much the entire SoCon except for Davidson and CofC (and occasionally Wofford) consistently post 200-ish RPIs. This kills RPIs. The SoCon rarely, if ever, has any other teams within the conference that actually help your RPI. This is not the case with the CAA. Even with VCU and ODU leaving the CAA will still have a number of teams that are actually RPI helpers instead of killers.

I'm not saying the CAA will be a NCAA 2-bid league every year. That's not going to be the case. But the CAA will consistently put a team or two in the NIT which can't be said for the SoCon. The CAA has had 14 teams in the NIT the last 10 years to the SoCon's 6.

Ga. St. was well above the conference average over the past 5 years, so while that's not a huge loss it certainly didn't help.

The NIT doesn't matter anyway, but going back 10 years is misleading because it was only in 2006 that they instituted the regular-season champ policy. If the best regular-season SoCon team is upset in the tourney, they automatically go to the NIT.

Again, the point here isn't that the SoCon is now better than the CAA in basketball. The question is whether the benefit is enough to outweigh the negatives for Davidson, CoC, or Elon. They get exit fees, increased travel costs, and a more unstable conference. In exchange, they get to maybe have a better RPI that still isn't good enough for an at-large bid. Or in Elon's case, they get a guaranteed finish in the bottom 3 every year. Just doesn't make sense.

[MplsBison]

Relevant here...Stony Brook just won the Coral Gables regional in the baseball tournament. Taking on LSU in the Super Regional.

CAA could become a very strong baseball conference with SBU, Coastal, C of C and Elon.

I heard Myrtle has a strong tradition in baseball:

http://www.cityoffilms.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/eastbound-n-down-kenny-powers.jpg

[whitey]

Ga. St. was well above the conference average over the past 5 years, so while that's not a huge loss it certainly didn't help.

No they weren't. Where are you getting this? Georgia State was 5th, 10th, 11th, 10th and 12th (dead last) in RPI the last 5 years for the CAA. Georgia State has been terrible in basketball for almost their entire CAA existence. They may have just turned the corner but them leaving is really not an issue for the CAA.



The NIT doesn't matter anyway, but going back 10 years is misleading because it was only in 2006 that they instituted the regular-season champ policy. If the best regular-season SoCon team is upset in the tourney, they automatically go to the NIT.

Again, the point here isn't that the SoCon is now better than the CAA in basketball. The question is whether the benefit is enough to outweigh the negatives for Davidson, CoC, or Elon. They get exit fees, increased travel costs, and a more unstable conference. In exchange, they get to maybe have a better RPI that still isn't good enough for an at-large bid. Or in Elon's case, they get a guaranteed finish in the bottom 3 every year. Just doesn't make sense.

I agree that just about no one cares about the NIT or the CBI or the CIT. All I'm saying is the CAA will provide a very nice bump in RPI for CofC and Davidson. Will that mean more at-large bids to the NCAA? No. Will it mean more access to post season tournaments? Yes. It's just simply one pro to look at if you are those schools. Does that outweigh the easier path to the NCAA tournament by winning the SoCon? I dunno. For Davidson, maybe not. But for CofC, maybe so. Charleston hasn't been to the tourney since 1999.

You are conveniently ignoring the other major positive the CAA has going for it and that's it's national TV deal and it's affiliate regional broadcast deal with NBC/Comcast. The SoCon can't match that. Additionally, the SoCon exit fee issue could be dealt with easily should the remaining CAA schools wish to share the extra NCAA tournament money ($5 million+) that the league has coming to it now that VCU and ODU are leaving with the new schools entering.

Do all of these positives outweigh the negatives of making the move like you said? I don't know. I don't think it's as definitive as you think and we'll all find out soon enough.

[kdinva]

Relevant here...Stony Brook just won the Coral Gables regional in the baseball tournament. Taking on LSU in the Super Regional.

CAA could become a very strong baseball conference with SBU, Coastal, C of C and Elon.

very true..........CAA this year is #18 in the Conf. RPI charts (even behind the Big South), they were #9 or 10 a decade ago........

[bluehenbillk]

Relevant here...Stony Brook just won the Coral Gables regional in the baseball tournament. Taking on LSU in the Super Regional.

CAA could become a very strong baseball conference with SBU, Coastal, C of C and Elon.

Very true. Since East Carolina left the CAA it hasn't been a strong baseball league.

[MplsBison]

No they weren't. Where are you getting this? Georgia State was 5th, 10th, 11th, 10th and 12th (dead last) in RPI the last 5 years for the CAA. Georgia State has been terrible in basketball for almost their entire CAA existence. They may have just turned the corner but them leaving is really not an issue for the CAA.



I agree that just about no one cares about the NIT or the CBI or the CIT. All I'm saying is the CAA will provide a very nice bump in RPI for CofC and Davidson. Will that mean more at-large bids to the NCAA? No. Will it mean more access to post season tournaments? Yes. It's just simply one pro to look at if you are those schools. Does that outweigh the easier path to the NCAA tournament by winning the SoCon? I dunno. For Davidson, maybe not. But for CofC, maybe so. Charleston hasn't been to the tourney since 1999.

You are conveniently ignoring the other major positive the CAA has going for it and that's it's national TV deal and it's affiliate regional broadcast deal with NBC/Comcast. The SoCon can't match that. Additionally, the SoCon exit fee issue could be dealt with easily should the remaining CAA schools wish to share the extra NCAA tournament money ($5 million+) that the league has coming to it now that VCU and ODU are leaving with the new schools entering.

Do all of these positives outweigh the negatives of making the move like you said? I don't know. I don't think it's as definitive as you think and we'll all find out soon enough.

Wow, so that IS your sales pitch to Davidson. "Come to the CAA, you'll get a boost in your RPI and better position yourself for the NIT, CTI and CBI!"

[whitey]

Wow, so that IS your sales pitch to Davidson. "Come to the CAA, you'll get a boost in your RPI and better position yourself for the NIT, CTI and CBI!"

You aren't following me and it's not my sales pitch. That's simply one positive of making the move. That's all I was trying to point out and then the conversation devolved into one about RPI and post season tournaments which is partly on me. I could have worded it better I'm sure. One of the MAJOR positives is the television exposure that the SoCon can't match. Keep ignoring that if you want. But the schools the CAA targets to refill the ranks won't.

[youwouldno]

No they weren't. Where are you getting this? Georgia State was 5th, 10th, 11th, 10th and 12th (dead last) in RPI the last 5 years for the CAA. Georgia State has been terrible in basketball for almost their entire CAA existence. They may have just turned the corner but them leaving is really not an issue for the CAA.

Yeah I must have double counted their good year or something. Still, they've gotten to be pretty solid of late. I'd take their next 5 years over CoC's.




I agree that just about no one cares about the NIT or the CBI or the CIT. All I'm saying is the CAA will provide a very nice bump in RPI for CofC and Davidson. Will that mean more at-large bids to the NCAA? No. Will it mean more access to post season tournaments? Yes. It's just simply one pro to look at if you are those schools. Does that outweigh the easier path to the NCAA tournament by winning the SoCon? I dunno. For Davidson, maybe not. But for CofC, maybe so. Charleston hasn't been to the tourney since 1999.

You are conveniently ignoring the other major positive the CAA has going for it and that's it's national TV deal and it's affiliate regional broadcast deal with NBC/Comcast. The SoCon can't match that. Additionally, the SoCon exit fee issue could be dealt with easily should the remaining CAA schools wish to share the extra NCAA tournament money ($5 million+) that the league has coming to it now that VCU and ODU are leaving with the new schools entering.

Do all of these positives outweigh the negatives of making the move like you said? I don't know. I don't think it's as definitive as you think and we'll all find out soon enough.

Well I haven't seen the precise details of the TV contracts, but I am skeptical they provide for huge cash inflows. Mid-major TV deals are generally a situation where the provider gets some programming and the conference gets exposure, but not a ton of cash. And it's a short-term situation since the conference has lost marketability with the departures. If there's a selling point, it would be the added exposure, not because their RPI might go from 120 to 115.

I think the point you are missing is with respect to the CAA's instability. I agree that, for 2012-13, there would be some advantages for Davidson and CoC to be in the CAA. But conference affiliation is ideally a long-term decision. The CAA's two remaining flagship basketball schools are GMU and Drexel; the former has already thought about leaving and the latter could be targeted at some point as well.

Looking beyond just one sport, Davidson and CoC are better fits for the SoCon in terms of geography, academics, school size, etc. I personally would really prefer that all conference members played football, but in any case it is very unlikely they will leave. I'll be here to eat crow if I'm wrong.

[MplsBison]

Are they going to get more money from this TV deal?

As I said in my first post, if they stand to get more money from moving - that's something significant.


Just being on TV more, especially if it's one of those funky cable sports networks that you can only get with Dish, isn't going to move the needle for what it would cost them in rocking the boat and burning relationships.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Looking beyond just one sport, Davidson and CoC are better fits for the SoCon in terms of geography, academics, school size, etc. I personally would really prefer that all conference members played football, but in any case it is very unlikely they will leave. I'll be here to eat crow if I'm wrong.

Davidson.... a better fit with the SoCon due to academics? Talk about an outlier... If Davidson wanted matches in academics, they would join the PL in all sports. (Matter of fact, in the old Colonial League in football (the proto-PL), they were a charter member.)

Davidson.... a better fit with the SoCon due to school size? Dude... have you checked the size of App State or Georgia Southern recently? Davidson's about 1/10th the size of App. (Davidson's 1,766 vs. App's 17K).

Davidson fits in the SoCon more due to geography than any other thing. They're not a 63-scholly football school, their basketball focus is greater than almost any other school in the league, their scholarship policies are different... about the only thing they share with the other SoCon schools is geography. And if they were in Virginia, I'd bet they'd be in the Patriot League in all sports.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Are they going to get more money from this TV deal?.

Yes, in the sense that they'll get something rather than nothing. It's probably a five-digit number.

But the money of TV deal completely misses the point. It's the placement on a national network, the same network that is televising the Olympics this summer.

[whitey]

Well I haven't seen the precise details of the TV contracts, but I am skeptical they provide for huge cash inflows. Mid-major TV deals are generally a situation where the provider gets some programming and the conference gets exposure, but not a ton of cash. And it's a short-term situation since the conference has lost marketability with the departures. If there's a selling point, it would be the added exposure, not because their RPI might go from 120 to 115.


The numbers for the NBCSports/Comcast deal with the CAA have not been released to my knowledge. I doubt it's more than a few hundred thousand per school but you're correct...the added exposure is what's the selling point with the TV deal. The better RPI is just another bullet in the "pros" column.



I think the point you are missing is with respect to the CAA's instability. I agree that, for 2012-13, there would be some advantages for Davidson and CoC to be in the CAA. But conference affiliation is ideally a long-term decision. The CAA's two remaining flagship basketball schools are GMU and Drexel; the former has already thought about leaving and the latter could be targeted at some point as well.


There is definitely an instability issue with the CAA. This is clearly the biggest negative. GMU could very well go to the A-10 at some point especially if the Big East split occurs and the A-10 gets raided. It's for Davidson and Charleston's Presidents to decide if the positives outweigh the negatives. It's not cut and dry either way imo. I wouldn't be surprised if the stay in the SoCon especially now that the SoCon made the changes they did to their league schedule and tournament. I wouldn't be surprised if they jump over to the CAA either.



Looking beyond just one sport, Davidson and CoC are better fits for the SoCon in terms of geography, academics, school size, etc. I personally would really prefer that all conference members played football, but in any case it is very unlikely they will leave. I'll be here to eat crow if I'm wrong.

Geography might not be a huge issue if those two schools move along with Elon. The CAA would still have UNC-W for bus trips as well as JMU and W&M to help bridge the gap. I think CofC's school profile easily fits in with the rest of the CAA schools. Davidson would be an outlier for sure due to their school size. Geography, unfortunately, doesn't seem to be driving the bus as far as conference re-alignment is concerned.

[MplsBison]

Yes, in the sense that they'll get something rather than nothing. It's probably a five-digit number.

But the money of TV deal completely misses the point. It's the placement on a national network, the same network that is televising the Olympics this summer.

The olympics are going to be on the NBC college sports cable TV network?

[MplsBison]

The numbers for the NBCSports/Comcast deal with the CAA have not been released to my knowledge. I doubt it's more than a few hundred thousand per school but you're correct...the added exposure is what's the selling point with the TV deal. The better RPI is just another bullet in the "pros" column.



There is definitely an instability issue with the CAA. This is clearly the biggest negative. GMU could very well go to the A-10 at some point especially if the Big East split occurs and the A-10 gets raided. It's for Davidson and Charleston's Presidents to decide if the positives outweigh the negatives. It's not cut and dry either way imo. I wouldn't be surprised if the stay in the SoCon especially now that the SoCon made the changes they did to their league schedule and tournament. I wouldn't be surprised if they jump over to the CAA either.



Geography might not be a huge issue if those two schools move along with Elon. The CAA would still have UNC-W for bus trips as well as JMU and W&M to help bridge the gap. I think CofC's school profile easily fits in with the rest of the CAA schools. Davidson would be an outlier for sure due to their school size. Geography, unfortunately, doesn't seem to be driving the bus as far as conference re-alignment is concerned.

So the CAA just lost two tournament teams from a year ago, one of which was well known nationally, and from the two biggest markets in Virginia, the epicenter of the CAA non-football conference.

That's going to have no effect on the TV deal?

[whitey]

The olympics are going to be on the NBC college sports cable TV network?

There is no NBC College Sports cable TV network. NBC re-branded the existing national cable sports network "Versus" to "NBCSports". The Olympics will be airing predominantly on NBC and NBCSports. This is the same network that airs many NHL regular season and playoff games as well as the Tour de France. The CAA has a 5 year deal in place for national coverage (including 5 football games per year to start) on NBC Sports. There will also be a large number of regionally broadcast football and basketball games on NBC Sports sister networks like Comcast SportsNet as well as online via their website.

[whitey]

So the CAA just lost two tournament teams from a year ago, one of which was well known nationally, and from the two biggest markets in Virginia, the epicenter of the CAA non-football conference.

That's going to have no effect on the TV deal?

Doesn't look like it. In fact, NBC and Comcast officials spent pretty much the entire day yesterday at the CAA summer meetings presenting their television programming plans.

[whitey]

Here are the specifics:

- 12+ National telecasts of CAA Men's Basketball games on NBC Sports Network.
- National telecasts of the CAA Men's tournament semifinals and finals on NBC Sports Network.
- 5 National telecasts of CAA football games on NBC Sports Network.
- 39 Regional broadcasts of additional Men's & Women's basketball games on the Comcast family of networks.
- Regional broadcasts of the Men's tournament quarterfinals on the Comcast family of networks.
- Regional broadcasts of the Women's tournament semi-finals and finals on the Comcast family of networks.
- TBD digital live streaming of games over the Internet.

[henfan]

Here are the specifics:

- 12+ National telecasts of CAA Men's Basketball games on NBC Sports Network.
- National telecasts of the CAA Men's tournament semifinals and finals on NBC Sports Network.
- 5 National telecasts of CAA football games on NBC Sports Network.
- 39 Regional broadcasts of additional Men's & Women's basketball games on the Comcast family of networks.
- Regional broadcasts of the Men's tournament quarterfinals on the Comcast family of networks.
- Regional broadcasts of the Women's tournament semi-finals and finals on the Comcast family of networks.
- TBD digital live streaming of games over the Internet.

And this is a big reason why the CAA will be an attractive destination to potential conference mates. How many other mid-major conferences have a media deal like this?

[Dane96]

FACT!

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Davidson.... a better fit with the SoCon due to academics? Talk about an outlier... If Davidson wanted matches in academics, they would join the PL in all sports. (Matter of fact, in the old Colonial League in football (the proto-PL), they were a charter member.)

Davidson.... a better fit with the SoCon due to school size? Dude... have you checked the size of App State or Georgia Southern recently? Davidson's about 1/10th the size of App. (Davidson's 1,766 vs. App's 17K).

Davidson fits in the SoCon more due to geography than any other thing. They're not a 63-scholly football school, their basketball focus is greater than almost any other school in the league, their scholarship policies are different... about the only thing they share with the other SoCon schools is geography. And if they were in Virginia, I'd bet they'd be in the Patriot League in all sports.

Davidson is not an outlier when it comes to school size. Take a look at the undergrad enrollment at Wofford, Furman, and Samford. GSU and App. State are more outliers in size than Davidson is. These schools make Davidson not so much of an academic outlier as well.

And back to the subject of the CAA...Davidson is just NOT overly ambitious about athletics and they seem to be resting on their laurels in basketball. Besides the solid basketball they are in the lower half of the conference standings in almost every sport and they can't even field a competitive Pioneer Football team. Honestly, I think they're just entertaining the thought of moving to the CAA to see what kind of concessions they can get from the SoCon, who has already apparently agreed to make it easier for the top seeds to win the SoCon tournament.

[henfan]

I still don't get why Davidson is viewed as such a great catch. Their hoops programs are solid but, frankly, the rest of their programs are just not very competitive. Outside of MBB & WBB, they would struggle mightily to compete in the CAA in most sports.

SoCon fans, what am I missing here?

[MplsBison]

There is no NBC College Sports cable TV network. NBC re-branded the existing national cable sports network "Versus" to "NBCSports". The Olympics will be airing predominantly on NBC and NBCSports. This is the same network that airs many NHL regular season and playoff games as well as the Tour de France. The CAA has a 5 year deal in place for national coverage (including 5 football games per year to start) on NBC Sports. There will also be a large number of regionally broadcast football and basketball games on NBC Sports sister networks like Comcast SportsNet as well as online via their website.

I apologize. I was thinking of CBS. They have a cable college sports TV channel.

Versus is not a standard channel on most cable systems. But yeah it's a pretty good channel.

[MplsBison]

Here are the specifics:

- 12+ National telecasts of CAA Men's Basketball games on NBC Sports Network.
- National telecasts of the CAA Men's tournament semifinals and finals on NBC Sports Network.
- 5 National telecasts of CAA football games on NBC Sports Network.
- 39 Regional broadcasts of additional Men's & Women's basketball games on the Comcast family of networks.
- Regional broadcasts of the Men's tournament quarterfinals on the Comcast family of networks.
- Regional broadcasts of the Women's tournament semi-finals and finals on the Comcast family of networks.
- TBD digital live streaming of games over the Internet.

Ok, so 5 football games, 12 regular season bball games and the tournament semi's and final on Versus.

Yeah, that's a nice package - I agree. Better than anything any other FCS conference has, probably.


Thing is - any discussion of TV deals and conference expansion is utterly moot until the other foot drops. IE, until we find out what the BCS format is - you simply don't know jack.

All it takes is for the right format to get voted in, Florida St and Clemson move to the Big XII and it all starts running downhill from there. Like that - JMU is gone. Maybe Delaware is gone.


There's no way the TV deal would survive as is.

People are going to tune into Versus to watch Drexel vs George Mason in hoops? Towson vs Maine in football?

[MplsBison]

I still don't get why Davidson is viewed as such a great catch. Their hoops programs are solid but, frankly, the rest of their programs are just not very competitive. Outside of MBB & WBB, they would struggle mightily to compete in the CAA in most sports.

SoCon fans, what am I missing here?

Hoops and football get TV ratings. The rest doesn't.

[whitey]

Yeah, that's a nice package - I agree. Better than anything any other FCS conference has, probably.


Not probably. Definitely. And it's not even close.



Thing is - any discussion of TV deals and conference expansion is utterly moot until the other foot drops. IE, until we find out what the BCS format is - you simply don't know jack. All it takes is for the right format to get voted in, Florida St and Clemson move to the Big XII and it all starts running downhill from there. Like that - JMU is gone. Maybe Delaware is gone. There's no way the TV deal would survive as is.


It's not moot. The TV deal with NBC is a done deal. Might it get renegotiated at some point prior to when it's up in 5 years? It could. But no matter what it's almost certainly going to be a better deal than any other mid-major conference can offer moving forward.

[MplsBison]

Better than any FCS conference, ok I buy that. But not necessarily better than every mid-major conference. CUSA? A10? Horizon? I don't consider CAA worth a higher investment than conferences like those. So my intuition says their TV deals are as good or better.

You really think the TV networks don't know what's going on around them at this very moment? They just sign TV deals with conferences for 5 years and hope for the best? There are little T's and C's in these giant packets of paper known as contracts. Trust me, they have all the "outs" they need.



And this just goes right back to my very point - being on TV is nice, but how much money are they going to get out of it? If not that much, is it worth burning relationships with the SoCon when the real media exposure comes from the tournament? That's the things they'll have to decide. Play in the CAA, maybe get a game or two on Versus, maybe get a few bucks thrown your way, make it quite a bit harder to win the conference tournament and burn every relationship you have with the SoCon down - or not.

[youwouldno]

I still don't get why Davidson is viewed as such a great catch. Their hoops programs are solid but, frankly, the rest of their programs are just not very competitive. Outside of MBB & WBB, they would struggle mightily to compete in the CAA in most sports.

SoCon fans, what am I missing here?

You're not missing anything. Like I said earlier, "Davidson athletics" is basically a synonym for "Bob McKillop." If he retired, all that would be left is " ".

It is just a blatant, short-term effort to keep CAA basketball above water. It makes no long-term sense, presumably because CAA members don't think the conference will be around long-term.

[youwouldno]

Davidson.... a better fit with the SoCon due to academics? Talk about an outlier... If Davidson wanted matches in academics, they would join the PL in all sports. (Matter of fact, in the old Colonial League in football (the proto-PL), they were a charter member.)

Davidson.... a better fit with the SoCon due to school size? Dude... have you checked the size of App State or Georgia Southern recently? Davidson's about 1/10th the size of App. (Davidson's 1,766 vs. App's 17K).

Davidson fits in the SoCon more due to geography than any other thing. They're not a 63-scholly football school, their basketball focus is greater than almost any other school in the league, their scholarship policies are different... about the only thing they share with the other SoCon schools is geography. And if they were in Virginia, I'd bet they'd be in the Patriot League in all sports.

Very ignorant post, other than the fact Davidson would be PL if geography allowed. Look up the members, their ranking/US News category, and enrollments, and next time maybe you'll know what you're talking about.

[whitey]

Better than any FCS conference, ok I buy that. But not necessarily better than every mid-major conference. CUSA? A10? Horizon? I don't consider CAA worth a higher investment than conferences like those. So my intuition says their TV deals are as good or better.


You said FCS originally, not me. Surely CUSA and the A-10 have better TV deals (or will have better TV deals once their current contracts run out). I believe CUSA has a deal with CBSSports and maybe Fox South. Moving forward the CAA will have one of the best if not the best TV deals compared to other FCS conferences.



You really think the TV networks don't know what's going on around them at this very moment? They just sign TV deals with conferences for 5 years and hope for the best? There are little T's and C's in these giant packets of paper known as contracts. Trust me, they have all the "outs" they need.


Of course they know and of course they have outs that they need. I'm basing my statements off of what I know. What I know right now is that NBC spent many hours yesterday at the CAA summer meetings presenting their programming plans to the conference. All conference officials and school officials interviewed afterwards were extremely pleased with the presentations. That doesn't sound to me like NBC is trying to pull out of the deal.



And this just goes right back to my very point - being on TV is nice, but how much money are they going to get out of it? If not that much, is it worth burning relationships with the SoCon when the real media exposure comes from the tournament? That's the things they'll have to decide. Play in the CAA, maybe get a game or two on Versus, maybe get a few bucks thrown your way, make it quite a bit harder to win the conference tournament and burn every relationship you have with the SoCon down - or not.

That's a fair point and that's why schools that get approached by the CAA are going to have to do their homework and weigh the pros and cons of moving conferences while considering all short term and long term aspects.

[MplsBison]

Yes I know I said FCS. Your last post you switched to mid-major. Anyway, ok fine - we're on the same page now.

I just think that it's crazy to talk about how good your TV deal is when it's obviously based on your current membership that may not be there in a couple months.

[whitey]

The TV deal was signed prior to VCU, ODU and Georgia State announcing their departures. It's a done deal. All indications are NBC/Comcast are going to honor the terms of the original agreement even with these three schools leaving. So it's not crazy to talk about how good it is. It certainly something the CAA will talk about when approaching schools for membership and it'll be something those schools will have to consider.

[henfan]

Hoops and football get TV ratings. The rest doesn't.

But in the grand scheme of things, Davidson hoops couldn't deliver anything more than miniscule ratings. It's not as if their MBB program is a juggernaut. And they add no FB at all.

Sure, they have a nice mid-major MBB program but that's it. It's not as if they're going to add tremendous value as the Charlotte entry into the CAA.

If it comes down to it, I'd much rather have Suffolk Co., NY's 'hometown team', as they are in a large media market and would bring solid FB, MBB, LAX and baseball teams. They are much more in keeping with the CAA's institutional profile, as well.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

But in the grand scheme of things, Davidson hoops couldn't deliver anything more than miniscule ratings. It's not as if their MBB program is a juggernaut. And they add no FB at all.

Sure, they have a nice mid-major MBB program but that's it. It's not as if they're going to add tremendous value as the Charlotte entry into the CAA.

If it comes down to it, I'd much rather have Suffolk Co., NY's 'hometown team', as they are in a large media market and would bring solid FB, MBB, LAX and baseball teams. They are much more in keeping with the CAA's institutional profile, as well.

Agreed. I think UTC would be a better add than Davidson. Their basketball program is right behind Davidson's and they are much more solid all-around than Davidson is.

[henfan]

UTC is just so far outside of the CAA's existing footprint. I doubt there's any mutual interest and they certainly haven't shown up on any of the rumored expansion candidate lists floated by the media.

[MplsBison]

The TV deal was signed prior to VCU, ODU and Georgia State announcing their departures. It's a done deal. All indications are NBC/Comcast are going to honor the terms of the original agreement even with these three schools leaving. So it's not crazy to talk about how good it is. It certainly something the CAA will talk about when approaching schools for membership and it'll be something those schools will have to consider.

That's not what I meant and I made that crystal clear. You knew it.

I'm talking about JMU, Delaware, etc. leaving after more dominos fall later this month.


Why should Davidson assume that's not going to happen or that the NBC contract would survive that with the CAA anchored by Towson and Drexel?

[MplsBison]

But in the grand scheme of things, Davidson hoops couldn't deliver anything more than miniscule ratings. It's not as if their MBB program is a juggernaut. And they add no FB at all.

Sure, they have a nice mid-major MBB program but that's it. It's not as if they're going to add tremendous value as the Charlotte entry into the CAA.

If it comes down to it, I'd much rather have Suffolk Co., NY's 'hometown team', as they are in a large media market and would bring solid FB, MBB, LAX and baseball teams. They are much more in keeping with the CAA's institutional profile, as well.

Preaching to the choir.

That's why I think Elon is the better choice with an improving football program.

CofC is better for Wilmington as a non-football partner.

[whitey]

I'm talking about JMU, Delaware, etc. leaving after more dominos fall later this month. Why should Davidson assume that's not going to happen or that the NBC contract would survive that with the CAA anchored by Towson and Drexel?


Sure some of the other CAA schools with football might move on too. But whose to say that being in a conference of almost entirely basketball schools at that point wouldn't be better for CofC and Davidson in the long run? Even if the television contract stays as currently negotiated or modified in some way.

You guys are all killing the CAA for their instability and that's understandable given everything that's transpired the last couple of months. But you can't assume the SoCon is going to stay together forever either. App State and Georgia Southern have already made their long term intentions known.

[MplsBison]

Fair points, of course.

But, as you come to know and love about good old humans, when all the chips are down and the cards are showing on the table, the pressure is on to make a big decision ..... typically the status quo is upheld. Whatever rocks the boat the least.