How stable is the SoCon?

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Not trying to start a flame war - although I'm sure it might happen - but if the AD's from Furman, Wofford and Elon see a phone number from the 804 (Richmond CAA offices) pop up on their caller ID's, do they answer?

As a Richmond fan, those are 3 schools I'd like to be playing regularly, in addition to continuing rivalries with William and Mary and Delaware. I would add JMU to that mix but it is apparent that they are on the next train that will sell them a ticket with Georgia Southern and App State.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Good luck trying to convince Northeastern, Hofstra, and Drexel that this is a fantastic idea.

[Apphole]

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20120517/PC20/120519229/1032

[fc97]

i guarantee they would take it and talk

the socon has been unstable for a long while fueled by a number of various items

[Apphole]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1avWJELB9Ek

[phoenix3]

I'm saying the same thing in a different thread, but the mix of W&M, UR, Furman, Wofford and Elon regardless of whether it's the SoCon, CAA or something else would be exciting. I would like to see some other solid publics in the mix as well though.

[Apphole]

I'm saying the same thing in a different thread, but the mix of W&M, UR, Furman, Wofford and Elon regardless of whether it's the SoCon, CAA or something else would be exciting. I would like to see some other solid publics in the mix as well though.

The PrivateCon! Just what you've always wanted!

Talk lack of a good gameday experience....

[ASUMountaineer]

The PrivateCon! Just what you've always wanted!

Talk lack of a good gameday experience....

To his credit, he did mention that he'd like to some "some other solid publics in the mix."

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Good luck trying to convince Northeastern, Hofstra, and Drexel that this is a fantastic idea.

At this point, I would surmise Tom Yeager's best interest is in placating his all sports schools like W&M, Towson, UD and JMU.

Can someone tell me what Davidson does for those schools?

[chattownmocs]

http://wrcb.images.worldnow.com/images/298631_G.jpg
=
http://dreallday.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/tumblr_lscnnqSmyk1qdwf89.gif

[chattownmocs]

As long as the Southern Conference can keep Chattanooga as its center piece it can survive.

[Apphole]

xlolx

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Not trying to start a flame war - although I'm sure it might happen - but if the AD's from Furman, Wofford and Elon see a phone number from the 804 (Richmond CAA offices) pop up on their caller ID's, do they answer?

As a Richmond fan, those are 3 schools I'd like to be playing regularly, in addition to continuing rivalries with William and Mary and Delaware. I would add JMU to that mix but it is apparent that they are on the next train that will sell them a ticket with Georgia Southern and App State.

Honestly, I don't think GSU or App are going anywhere within the next few years at least. GSU isn't ready for the Sun Belt and App. seems to be CUSA or bust (won't happen).

And given the footprint, I think Albany and Stony Brook are more probable than Furman and Wofford.

[AshevilleApp2]

Richmond ought to dump the Yankees and join the SoCon. xnodx

[ASUMountaineer]

As long as the Southern Conference can keep Chattanooga as its center piece it can survive.

Greatest.Post.Ever.

xlolx

[Sir William]

Richmond ought to dump the Yankees and join the SoCon. xnodx

...as should William & Mary. xnodx

[DFW HOYA]

...as should William & Mary. xnodx

While you're at it, call Davidson and VMI.

[Sir William]

Look, if the CAA were to steal away Davidson and Charleston from the SoCon, and App and GaSo were to find a home in the Sun Belt or CUSA, the SoCon will not only survive but just reload with new schools. And I'm not talking about Presbyterian and Gardner-Webb.

Coastal Carolina would certainly be on the radar, as would SC State. Two others whhich would be very real possibilities to come on over would be Eastern Kentucky and Tennessee Tech. Everyone in Butcher Holler knows that EKU would leave the OVC in a split second to join the SoCon, and TTU would also if EKU made such a move. (All public universities, I might add)

And don't necessarily rule out 1-2 VA schools coming back to the SoCon if for nothing else, football only. Adding the Tribe and the Spiders to the SoCon would make for a great football conference, IMO.

Not sure what the status of Jax State is. Thought they were gearing up for an eventual FBS move, but haven't heard anything lately.

Also, wouldn't be surprised to see UNC-Asheville eventually get an invite. No football, but a good basketball addition (not as good as Davidson or Charleston, but better than App and GaSo).

If the SoCon were to add Presbyterian or Gardner-Webb, there's not enough Dramamine to keep me from barfing myself into oblivion.

[ASUMountaineer]

Look, if the CAA were to steal away Davidson and Charleston from the SoCon, and App and GaSo were to find a home in the Sun Belt or CUSA, the SoCon will not only survive but just reload with new schools. And I'm not talking about Presbyterian and Gardner-Webb.

Coastal Carolina would certainly be on the radar, as would SC State. Two others whhich would be very real possibilities to come on over would be Eastern Kentucky and Tennessee Tech. Everyone in Butcher Holler knows that EKU would leave the OVC in a split second to join the SoCon, and TTU would also if EKU made such a move. (All public universities, I might add)

And don't necessarily rule out 1-2 VA schools coming back to the SoCon if for nothing else, football only. Adding the Tribe and the Spiders to the SoCon would make for a great football conference, IMO.

Not sure what the status of Jax State is. Thought they were gearing up for an eventual FBS move, but haven't heard anything lately.

Also, wouldn't be surprised to see UNC-Asheville eventually get an invite. No football, but a good basketball addition (not as good as Davidson or Charleston, but better than App and GaSo).

If the SoCon were to add Presbyterian or Gardner-Webb, there's not enough Dramamine to keep me from barfing myself into oblivion.

Why would WoCo, Citadel, and Furman want to add two more SC schools? It seems they would have a vested interest in keeping them out. Personally, if the scenario you put forth came to be, I think the SoCon would have to look hard at CCU. Other than that, there's not much difference between PC and GWU other than location, and I think they pull GWU. EKU and TTU are interesting potential choices. I don't doubt the SoCon will survive in your scenario, but the football may be down for a few years (unless you did get UR and W&M to jump in).

[blueballs]

As long as the Southern Conference can keep Chattanooga as its center piece it can survive.

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[phoenix3]

I have seen several posts about SC State moving to the SoCon. Isn't SC State an HBC? If so, that move would be highly unlikely.

[Apphole]

I have seen several posts about SC State moving to the SoCon. Isn't SC State an HBC? If so, that move would be highly unlikely.

http://www.draftdaysuit.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/thats_racist_animated1.gif

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

And given the footprint, I think Albany and Stony Brook are more probable than Furman and Wofford.

You are probably right. At this point, Richmond is sitting in the back seat -or possibly stuffed in the truck- on the CAA Expansion train. I am at least comforted that several other CAA schools like WM and Towson share similar interests as the Spiders regarding football. UD may, as well.

[kdinva]

I have seen several posts about SC State moving to the SoCon. Isn't SC State an HBCU? If so, that move would be highly unlikely.
Tennessee State is an HBCU, in a non-HBCU conference.......so.....

[PaladinFan]

Tennessee State is an HBCU, in a non-HBCU conference.......so.....

Furman has a long history playing SCSU, and mots of our fans would love to see them in the conference.

[eaglewraith]

Furman has a long history playing SCSU, and mots of our fans would love to see them in the conference.

WCU would lose the title of highly attended band performances. Count them as a vote against ;)

[asumike83]

South Carolina State would be a welcome addition for me. They travel well, football could be competitive and their band rocks. If the SoCon was able to land them and Coastal, that would be great. Not sure all the other SC schools would go for it though.

[seantaylor]

Honestly, I don't think GSU or App are going anywhere within the next few years at least. GSU isn't ready for the Sun Belt and App. seems to be CUSA or bust (won't happen).

And given the footprint, I think Albany and Stony Brook are more probable than Furman and Wofford.

Seriously can't understand this argument. We would win the Sunbelt next year. Problem is we have the worst AD in D1 and a ton of d-rider fans that love to make excuses for this piece of ish. Our fans are by far our biggest problem.

[eaglewraith]

Seriously can't understand this argument. We would win the Sunbelt next year. Problem is we have the worst AD in D1 and a ton of d-rider fans that love to make excuses for this piece of ish. Our fans are by far our biggest problem.

If you want to go FBS now is the time to show your support in dollars.

**** or get off the pot. You want it, you gotta help make it happen. If we don't have the money, there's no way it'll ever happen and then people like you will sit here and continue to bitch about it. Dr. Keel makes the decision about going FBS, not Sam Baker.

And fans like YOU are holding us back from improving the program all around and putting us at the top of our current division, as well as setting us up for a move if the opportunity arises.

[asumike83]

Seriously can't understand this argument. We would win the Sunbelt next year. Problem is we have the worst AD in D1 and a ton of d-rider fans that love to make excuses for this piece of ish. Our fans are by far our biggest problem.

Being ready means a lot more than the product you put on the field. GSU needs stadium expansion, an upgrade to the basketball facility and more funding for all the additional scholarships. There are plans in place do do that but I think that's what he meant by saying GSU is not ready for the SBC. Start writing checks if you are serious about the move.

[OL FU]

I have said before I would hate to see Georgia Southern and Appalachian State go. I think ASU could be soon, but for whatever reason they haven't been the chosen one. Georgia Southern eventually but as others have mentioned, I don't see it happening for a while.

I would love nothing better than Richmond and W&M to come home.

Now this may sound strange, I know that CofC and Davidson leaving would really hurt basketball. but that isn't where my heart is in the SoCon, so their departure wouldn't break my heart.

The tough part is that we have the perfect number of football playing schools. so what do you do, increase the number to 11 with the anticipation of two departing. I guess but it would certainly whack things up for a little while.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Seriously can't understand this argument. We would win the Sunbelt next year. Problem is we have the worst AD in D1 and a ton of d-rider fans that love to make excuses for this piece of ish. Our fans are by far our biggest problem.

I know we could immediately be one of the top teams in the Sun Belt. I'm talking about money, chief. xscanx

[PaladinFan]

I know we could immediately be one of the top teams in the Sun Belt. I'm talking about money, chief. xscanx

I think half the SoCon would be among the top teams in the SunBelt.

[GA St. MBB Fan]

I think half the SoCon would be among the top teams in the SunBelt.

xrolleyesx

[kdinva]

...... but the mix of W&M, UR, Furman, Wofford and Elon regardless of whether it's the SoCon, CAA or something else would be exciting. I would like to see some other solid publics in the mix as well though..

VMI would sit in on such a round table, more so than moving north to the Patriot, I've heard 3rd hand from Lex. ElCid would, too.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Right now it's hard to say what will happen as there are still so many balls in motion. These are a few of the scenarios I can see playing out:

CAA reloads without impacting SoCon football:

If the CAA takes CoC and/or Davidson for basketball, and Stony Brook and/or Coastal Carolina for football, it won't have a major effect on the SoCon. Yes, SoCon basketball will take a bit of a hit, but they'll survive. This would preserve the status quo for a bit, but as it seems more and more likely that Delaware, JMU, App State and Georgia Southern all have FBS plans in the immediate or not-do-distant future, preserving the status quo like this would only be a temporary measure.

CAA makes moves to prepare for FBS start up league:

A year ago this would have seemed so far fetched as to be impossible, but recent comments from various ADs and even CAA Commissioner Tom Yeager hint that this plan is in the works. Right now the only two CAA schools that seem to have the resources to play at the FBS level are Delaware and JMU, so other schools would be needed. App State and Georgia Southern could be added, and while it may look like a lateral move at first, it would be setting the state for a conference-wide jump (possibly with UMass and a few Sun Belt or C-USA schools, maybe even Stony Brook or UT-Chattanooga). The premature exodus of ODU and GA State might make this unlikely however.

If it does happen, W&M and Richmond would likely jump into the SoCon to fill the spots vacated by App State and GaSou.

Total East Coast Conference meltdown and restructuring:

Beside the dead-in-the-water WAC and MWC the Big East is the most unstable FBS conference at this point. The basketball schools are theoretically driving the bus, but based on the roadmap appear to be blindfolded. If all of the current conference transfers go through it will have 10 full members, 8 non-football members, and 3 football only members.

There are rumors that Clemson and FSU might bail on the ACC for the Big XII or SEC, which would drop the ACC to 12 members and might prompt an ACC raid on the Big East (USF and UCF might be targets to replace FSU, Temple could give the Philly market, though I believe CT is part of the NYC TV market so maybe UConn could be a target as well). If this happens does the Big East possibly look to let in FCS schools at football only members just to keep the numbers up? Do the Big East basketball schools put up with the plethora of football affiliates or do the best Big East basketball schools break off and raid the A-10 to make a northeast top tier hoops league? Do the Catholic schools from the Big East and A-10 break apart do to their own thing? A conference of Villanova, Georgetown, Seton Hall, St. Johns, St. Joes, Providence, St. Bonnie's, Xavier, LaSalle, Duquesne, Fordham, DePaul, Notre Dame and Marquette for all sports but football could make some geographical sense and free the conference of the influence of 'football schools' ('Nova, G-town, Fordham and Duquesne could obviously continue to maintain FCS programs as affiliate members of other conferences, with Notre Dame continuing their BCS independent status).

In this scenario (and I admit it's a long shot) Delaware might be able to make a play for a football only membership in the Big East to reunite with traditional rivals like Rutgers, Temple and UConn (if they are still around) and with the possibility of UMass coming along as a full member, or if the Big East takes some combination of ECU, Marshall, UNC-Charlotte, or North Texas it could open the door for Delaware, JMU, Appy and GaSou to fill their spots in C-USA.

[WestCoastAggie]

So we are just going to ignore those MEAC and HBCU elephants in the room?

[asumike83]

So we are just going to ignore those MEAC and HBCU elephants in the room?

SC State got some love earlier in the thread, I'd be happy to see them in the SoCon.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

.

VMI would sit in on such a round table, more so than moving north to the Patriot, I've heard 3rd hand from Lex. ElCid would, too.

Works for me.

[PaladinFan]

Right now it's hard to say what will happen as there are still so many balls in motion. These are a few of the scenarios I can see playing out:

CAA reloads without impacting SoCon football:

If the CAA takes CoC and/or Davidson for basketball, and Stony Brook and/or Coastal Carolina for football, it won't have a major effect on the SoCon. Yes, SoCon basketball will take a bit of a hit, but they'll survive. This would preserve the status quo for a bit, but as it seems more and more likely that Delaware, JMU, App State and Georgia Southern all have FBS plans in the immediate or not-do-distant future, preserving the status quo like this would only be a temporary measure.

CAA makes moves to prepare for FBS start up league:

A year ago this would have seemed so far fetched as to be impossible, but recent comments from various ADs and even CAA Commissioner Tom Yeager hint that this plan is in the works. Right now the only two CAA schools that seem to have the resources to play at the FBS level are Delaware and JMU, so other schools would be needed. App State and Georgia Southern could be added, and while it may look like a lateral move at first, it would be setting the state for a conference-wide jump (possibly with UMass and a few Sun Belt or C-USA schools, maybe even Stony Brook or UT-Chattanooga). The premature exodus of ODU and GA State might make this unlikely however.

If it does happen, W&M and Richmond would likely jump into the SoCon to fill the spots vacated by App State and GaSou.

Total East Coast Conference meltdown and restructuring:

Beside the dead-in-the-water WAC and MWC the Big East is the most unstable FBS conference at this point. The basketball schools are theoretically driving the bus, but based on the roadmap appear to be blindfolded. If all of the current conference transfers go through it will have 10 full members, 8 non-football members, and 3 football only members.

There are rumors that Clemson and FSU might bail on the ACC for the Big XII or SEC, which would drop the ACC to 12 members and might prompt an ACC raid on the Big East (USF and UCF might be targets to replace FSU, Temple could give the Philly market, though I believe CT is part of the NYC TV market so maybe UConn could be a target as well). If this happens does the Big East possibly look to let in FCS schools at football only members just to keep the numbers up? Do the Big East basketball schools put up with the plethora of football affiliates or do the best Big East basketball schools break off and raid the A-10 to make a northeast top tier hoops league? Do the Catholic schools from the Big East and A-10 break apart do to their own thing? A conference of Villanova, Georgetown, Seton Hall, St. Johns, St. Joes, Providence, St. Bonnie's, Xavier, LaSalle, Duquesne, Fordham, DePaul, Notre Dame and Marquette for all sports but football could make some geographical sense and free the conference of the influence of 'football schools' ('Nova, G-town, Fordham and Duquesne could obviously continue to maintain FCS programs as affiliate members of other conferences, with Notre Dame continuing their BCS independent status).

In this scenario (and I admit it's a long shot) Delaware might be able to make a play for a football only membership in the Big East to reunite with traditional rivals like Rutgers, Temple and UConn (if they are still around) and with the possibility of UMass coming along as a full member, or if the Big East takes some combination of ECU, Marshall, UNC-Charlotte, or North Texas it could open the door for Delaware, JMU, Appy and GaSou to fill their spots in C-USA.

With Davidson and College of Charleston, you have to remember the deep ties those schools have with several of the other SoCon members. I can see Charleston leaving before Davidson, but I don't think either would go just for a better basketball conference.

[The Cats]

I think everyone in the SoCon will stay put, except ASU/GSU only leaving for a FBS invite. I do see the SoCon trying for a couple of football schools, that will be replacements for ASU/GSU.

[asumike83]

I think everyone in the SoCon will stay put, except ASU/GSU only leaving for a FBS invite. I do see the SoCon trying for a couple of football schools, that will be replacements for ASU/GSU.

The question is, proactive or reactive? I wish the SoCon would make a push for Coastal now. It'd give the SoCon 10 football members, add another competitive basketball program and be an excellent baseball addition that could make the SoCon the 5th or 6th best conference in D1. That way if/when App and GSU leave, there will be 8 football members and baseball will still be very good.

[PaladinFan]

The question is, proactive or reactive? I wish the SoCon would make a push for Coastal now. It'd give the SoCon 10 football members, add another competitive basketball program and be an excellent baseball addition that could make the SoCon the 5th or 6th best conference in D1. That way if/when App and GSU leave, there will be 8 football members and baseball will still be very good.

I just don't see the SoCon doing anything until App and GSU actually leave. Right now they are just talking about leaving. Intending to move to the FBS and actually moving to the FBS are different things, and the SoCon needs to adjust when and if any of those contingencies occur.

[GlassOnion]

The Socon needs to be proactive, but they have and never will be. CAA will make a move on Socon schools, but I bet the Socon doesnt even aim that high, they'll content themselves with Big South schools.

App should announce intentions of moving up after June 1, which will start the clock and meet the two years notice requirement for leaving the Socon.

[asumike83]

I just don't see the SoCon doing anything until App and GSU actually leave. Right now they are just talking about leaving. Intending to move to the FBS and actually moving to the FBS are different things, and the SoCon needs to adjust when and if any of those contingencies occur.

I just think it may be too late by then, the CAA seems primed to take action. If they go ahead and snag Coastal along with Davidson and/or Charleston, the SoCon will have a lot of back filling to do if/when App and GSU leave. Making that first move now would solidify hoops, improve baseball and put the SoCon in a better position in the event of future deflections. It could also make Davidson and Charleston more content to stay put.

If the SoCon stands pat and does nothing, there is certainly the risk that the CAA/FBS cherry pick some of their stronger programs and leave limited options as replacements. While all the programs that have been linked to rumors with other conferences may not end up departing, the worst-case scenario would not be pretty and they have to protect against that.

[PaladinFan]

I just think it may be too late by then, the CAA seems primed to take action. If they go ahead and snag Coastal along with Davidson and/or Charleston, the SoCon will have a lot of back filling to do if/when App and GSU leave. Making that first move now would solidify hoops, improve baseball and put the SoCon in a better position in the event of future deflections. It could also make Davidson and Charleston more content to stay put.

If the SoCon stands pat and does nothing, there is certainly the risk that the CAA/FBS cherry pick some of their stronger programs and leave limited options as replacements. While all the programs that have been linked to rumors with other conferences may not end up departing, the worst-case scenario would not be pretty and they have to protect against that.

There's a difference between the two, though. The CAA is in scramble mode with one quarter of its conference bailing out. The SoCon, despite the talk, hasn't lost a single member. I am always of the opinion that there will be takers to play in the premier FCS football conference in the Southeast.

[asumike83]

There's a difference between the two, though. The CAA is in scramble mode with one quarter of its conference bailing out. The SoCon, despite the talk, hasn't lost a single member. I am always of the opinion that there will be takers to play in the premier FCS football conference in the Southeast.

I agree, the conference is going to keep on going and there will not be a shortage of schools that would jump at the opportunity to join the SoCon. The question is, will there be a shortage of quality? If the SoCon sits back and watches while the CAA takes their pick of schools in the region, that could be the case.

Say the SoCon does take a passive approach and the worst-case scenario occurs: the CAA takes Coastal, Davidson, Charleston and Elon. Where does the SoCon go from there?

[DFW HOYA]

Say the SoCon does take a passive approach and the worst-case scenario occurs: the CAA takes Coastal, Davidson, Charleston and Elon. Where does the SoCon go from there?

Merge with the CAA, keep the SoCon name, and relocate conference headquarters to Richmond.

[GlassOnion]

I am always of the opinion that there will be takers to play in the premier FCS football conference in the Southeast.

Exactly how "premier" is that conference after they lose their #1 and #2 football schools? How would this have struck you five years ago, that the Socon's top three FB schools would be Elon, Wofford and Furman?

Average attendances will see a big drop, which means less money.

Will the PBS stations still air Socon FB games? Well, probably not Georgia, and probably not North Carolina. That leaves SC and a small chunk of Tennessee and Alabama.

If Davidson or C of C disappear, Socon BB isnt all that impressive either.

The Socon will survive no doubt, but calling it a "premier" league after an App/GSU/Davidson/CofC exit is laughable.

[ASUMountaineer]

Say the SoCon does take a passive approach and the worst-case scenario occurs: the CAA takes Coastal, Davidson, Charleston and Elon. Where does the SoCon go from there?

Gardner-Webb, Presby, Wingate, ETSU?

[WestCoastAggie]

I agree, the conference is going to keep on going and there will not be a shortage of schools that would jump at the opportunity to join the SoCon. The question is, will there be a shortage of quality? If the SoCon sits back and watches while the CAA takes their pick of schools in the region, that could be the case.

Say the SoCon does take a passive approach and the worst-case scenario occurs: the CAA takes Coastal, Davidson, Charleston and Elon. Where does the SoCon go from there?

They may look at Big South, MEAC, SWAC (Ala. State) and perhaps some Gulf South Schools (Valdosta State) or start-ups (Kenneesaw State, Mercer, Stetson)

[GlassOnion]

Big South schools are more likely.

[WestCoastAggie]

Would the Southern Conference want to stretch further in Tennessee and OVC country?

[PaladinFan]

Exactly how "premier" is that conference after they lose their #1 and #2 football schools? How would this have struck you five years ago, that the Socon's top three FB schools would be Elon, Wofford and Furman?

Average attendances will see a big drop, which means less money.

Will the PBS stations still air Socon FB games? Well, probably not Georgia, and probably not North Carolina. That leaves SC and a small chunk of Tennessee and Alabama.

If Davidson or C of C disappear, Socon BB isnt all that impressive either.

The Socon will survive no doubt, but calling it a "premier" league after an App/GSU/Davidson/CofC exit is laughable.

I said premier FCS league in the Southeast. You ignore the "FCS" part (which only applies in football) and the "Southeast" part.

Tell me the FCS league in this part of the country you would put ahead of the SoCon, regardless of the status of App and GSU. Your choices are the MEAC (maybe), the Big South, and the Pioneer.

[PaladinFan]

I agree, the conference is going to keep on going and there will not be a shortage of schools that would jump at the opportunity to join the SoCon. The question is, will there be a shortage of quality? If the SoCon sits back and watches while the CAA takes their pick of schools in the region, that could be the case.

Say the SoCon does take a passive approach and the worst-case scenario occurs: the CAA takes Coastal, Davidson, Charleston and Elon. Where does the SoCon go from there?

I don't worry much about perceived "quality." The SoCon added Wofford and Elon, neither of which was particularly impressive, and both of those teams have stepped up to be nationally relevant programs. I don't think it's unrealistic to think that the SoCon could take on another lesser-known school and see them develop into something other than a doormat.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I still don't see any SoCon school leaving for the CAA. Will the perks outweigh the increased travel costs? The SoCon probably has the most compact footprints of all conferences in all of Division I. I can't see it being something that would be in the best interest of Davidson, CofC, GSU, or ASU.

[asumike83]

Would the Southern Conference want to stretch further in Tennessee and OVC country?

I think the Big South would be targeted the most due to geography but the OVC has some programs that would be very attractive. Eastern Kentucky, Murray State and Jacksonville State would all be excellent additions if they had any interest in leaving the OVC.

[WestCoastAggie]

It's a 6-7 hour drive from Murray, KY to Boone, NC and it's about 12 hours to various spots around South Carolina. Now Jacksonville State, on the other hand would be a great addition football and baseball-wise.

Murray State just wouldn't work in the SoCon. Our travel expenses would explode.

[GlassOnion]

I said premier FCS league in the Southeast. You ignore the "FCS" part (which only applies in football) and the "Southeast" part.

Tell me the FCS league in this part of the country you would put ahead of the SoCon, regardless of the status of App and GSU. Your choices are the MEAC (maybe), the Big South, and the Pioneer.

I dont see the current Big South as any less than the Socon minus those 3-4 schools. SC State, Jax State, both could be top 3 in that Socon. The only thing the Socon really has left is a name.

[apaladin]

Tennessee Tech has been mentioned.

[WestCoastAggie]

Have any schools from North Carolina been mentioned?

[PaladinFan]

I dont see the current Big South as any less than the Socon minus those 3-4 schools. SC State, Jax State, both could be top 3 in that Socon. The only thing the Socon really has left is a name.

It would be better if you would admit you misread what I wrote instead of trying to defend a ridiculous position.

My comment was directed at (1) football, and (2) conferences in the Southeast. You continue to address sports other than football, and random teams that are not a conference.

[GlassOnion]

It would be better if you would admit you misread what I wrote instead of trying to defend a ridiculous position.

My comment was directed at (1) football, and (2) conferences in the Southeast. You continue to address sports other than football, and random teams that are not a conference.

My official position:

The Socon without APP/GSU/CofC/Davidson has absolutely no more credability than the Big South, or OVC, other than the shell of a name.

I didnt misread, the point was that both of those conferences have teams that are just as good as socon teams, and additionally those teams average more fans.

[PaladinFan]

My official position:

The Socon without APP/GSU/CofC/Davidson has absolutely no more credability than the Big South, or OVC, other than the shell of a name.

I didnt misread, the point was that both of those conferences have teams that are just as good as socon teams, and additionally those teams average more fans.

I will submit that if virtually any conference in the country loses 1/3 of its members overnight, it would not be as good as it was the day before.

I do think that even if App State and GSU left for wherever it is the want to go, that the SoCon would still be superior to all of the above in terms of football. I don't even think it's close.

[Apphole]

I will submit that if virtually any conference in the country loses 1/3 of its members overnight, it would not be as good as it was the day before.

I do think that even if App State and GSU left for wherever it is the want to go, that the SoCon would still be superior to all of the above in terms of football. I don't even think it's close.

After all, as long as the SoCon retains Chattanooga as its center piece, it can survive. xlolx

[phoenix3]

The question is, proactive or reactive? I wish the SoCon would make a push for Coastal now. It'd give the SoCon 10 football members, add another competitive basketball program and be an excellent baseball addition that could make the SoCon the 5th or 6th best conference in D1. That way if/when App and GSU leave, there will be 8 football members and baseball will still be very good.

Yup. Add W&M to that, possibly Richmond, (although I don't see them leaving the A10 in basketball & don't know if the SoCon would allow a football only school), & you have a conference that, in a few years, could weather the football losses of App & GSU.

[Smitty]

Yup. Add W&M to that, possibly Richmond, (although I don't see them leaving the A10 in basketball & don't know if the SoCon would allow a football only school), & you have a conference that, in a few years, could weather the football losses of App & GSU.


If it is about survival they would take them whether they brought all sports or not probably.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

My official position:

The Socon without APP/GSU/CofC/Davidson has absolutely no more credability than the Big South, or OVC, other than the shell of a name.

BS. The SoCon would still have Furman, Elon, Wofford. I would consider all three of them to be bigger FCS names with better traditions than anybody in the Big South or OVC, with the exception of EKU.

The Citadel, Chatty and Samford aren't chopped liver either.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Yup. Add W&M to that, possibly Richmond, (although I don't see them leaving the A10 in basketball & don't know if the SoCon would allow a football only school), & you have a conference that, in a few years, could weather the football losses of App & GSU.

I'm with you. I think there's enough schools in the CAA and enough schools in the SoCon that are sick and tired of hearing about their conferences-mates foaming at the mouth for the opportunity to go FBS that we could make a hell of a conference.

I can tell you that most all Richmond fans don't want a damn thing to do with the Patriot if the CAA blows up. And in my mind, a Delaware departure would blow it up. I hope whatever is left of the CAA looks south, not north. I am sorry for what that means to UNH and Maine, but it is what it is.

[phoenix3]

Here's another thought: There's been a rumor that the CAA has contacted Elon. I have no Idea if that's true, BUT, if Davidson and C of C were to make the move, I could see Elon moving that way. 25% of Elon students come from NC. 46% of Elon Students come from a combination of MD, MA, NJ, VA, CT, PA and NY. The next state in the % category is FL which supplies 4%, less than each of the states mentioned above. So, as time goes by, many more alumni will likely reside in CAA country than reside in SoCon country. Plus, Elon is making a strong effort to raise the stature of basketball. A new convocation center/basketball arena is planned for 2020.

[kdinva]

BS. The SoCon would still have Furman, Elon, Wofford. I would consider all three of them to be bigger FCS names with better traditions than anybody in the Big South

(Psssst: VMI was in the SoCon from 1924 - 2002). xthumbsupx

[PaladinFan]

I'm with you. I think there's enough schools in the CAA and enough schools in the SoCon that are sick and tired of hearing about their conferences-mates foaming at the mouth for the opportunity to go FBS that we could make a hell of a conference.

I can tell you that most all Richmond fans don't want a damn thing to do with the Patriot if the CAA blows up. And in my mind, a Delaware departure would blow it up. I hope whatever is left of the CAA looks south, not north. I am sorry for what that means to UNH and Maine, but it is what it is.

Agreed. Part of me hopes the SoCon cuts ties with the malcontents and let them enjoy life as an FCS independent. The clearly don't want to be in the conference, so let them sort it out on their own.

[PaladinFan]

Here's another thought: There's been a rumor that the CAA has contacted Elon. I have no Idea if that's true, BUT, if Davidson and C of C were to make the move, I could see Elon moving that way. 25% of Elon students come from NC. 46% of Elon Students come from a combination of MD, MA, NJ, VA, CT, PA and NY. The next state in the % category is FL which supplies 4%, less than each of the states mentioned above. So, as time goes by, many more alumni will likely reside in CAA country than reside in SoCon country. Plus, Elon is making a strong effort to raise the stature of basketball. A new convocation center/basketball arena is planned for 2020.

Truthfully, Elon is the only team in the conference I could see making a lateral move to another FCS conference by itself. I think every other school either (A) would not move, or (B) would only move en masse.

[phoenix3]

Truthfully, Elon is the only team in the conference I could see making a lateral move to another FCS conference by itself. I think every other school either (A) would not move, or (B) would only move en masse.

I agree. However, should UR or W&M consider a move to the SoCon and assuming Davidson and C of C stay put, I seriously doubt Elon would make the move.

[asumike83]

Agreed. Part of me hopes the SoCon cuts ties with the malcontents and let them enjoy life as an FCS independent. The clearly don't want to be in the conference, so let them sort it out on their own.

xbangx

Yes, Appalachian and GSU want to leave the conference to play FBS football. That is not grounds to be kicked out. Regardless of what some of our fans have said, our administration has been respectful and straightforward throughout the process. It is just business. The fact is, we make the conference more money than anyone they could realistically replace us with and there is no column for hurt feelings on a balance sheet. Neither side comes out on top in that scenario.

[OL FU]

So we are just going to ignore those MEAC and HBCU elephants in the room?

I don't know but generally it has always seemed that the historical ties of HBCU's to the MEAC and SWAC have been prohibitive to them moving. IF they are willing to change conferences, but I think that is why they are generally left out of the discussion.

[OL FU]

I just think it may be too late by then, the CAA seems primed to take action. If they go ahead and snag Coastal along with Davidson and/or Charleston, the SoCon will have a lot of back filling to do if/when App and GSU leave. Making that first move now would solidify hoops, improve baseball and put the SoCon in a better position in the event of future deflections. It could also make Davidson and Charleston more content to stay put.

If the SoCon stands pat and does nothing, there is certainly the risk that the CAA/FBS cherry pick some of their stronger programs and leave limited options as replacements. While all the programs that have been linked to rumors with other conferences may not end up departing, the worst-case scenario would not be pretty and they have to protect against that.

As much as I like 9 football playing schools, I agree with you. ASU will eventually leave. Don't know if it is going to be two years or twenty two years, but you can't wait. Go ahead and get someone that serves the conference well

[OL FU]

I'm with you. I think there's enough schools in the CAA and enough schools in the SoCon that are sick and tired of hearing about their conferences-mates foaming at the mouth for the opportunity to go FBS that we could make a hell of a conference.

I can tell you that most all Richmond fans don't want a damn thing to do with the Patriot if the CAA blows up. And in my mind, a Delaware departure would blow it up. I hope whatever is left of the CAA looks south, not north. I am sorry for what that means to UNH and Maine, but it is what it is.

Sounds good.

Furman
Elon
Wofford
Samford
The Citadel
Western Carolina
Richmond
W&M
VMI

xnodx

Who did I forgetxlolx

[Purple Knight]

Agreed. Part of me hopes the SoCon cuts ties with the malcontents and let them enjoy life as an FCS independent. The clearly don't want to be in the conference, so let them sort it out on their own.

Agreed


111

[OL FU]

xbangx

Yes, Appalachian and GSU want to leave the conference to play FBS football. That is not grounds to be kicked out. Regardless of what some of our fans have said, our administration has been respectful and straightforward throughout the process. It is just business. The fact is, we make the conference more money than anyone they could realistically replace us with and there is no column for hurt feelings on a balance sheet. Neither side comes out on top in that scenario.

That is true. As you mentioned there are always fans that want to move up that either (1) poke their fingers in the eye of their conference mates or (2) blame any short comings in their program on the fact that they are still playing in a rinky dink conference. Some of it is just harmless smack and some is just stupidity.

But generally we talk to other fans, not administrations.

I have actually been impressed with the number of GSU and ASU fans that say they want to stay put. xnodx

The point is that schools have to do what they think is in their best interest. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I have always hope the best for every school that has leftxnodx.......................except for that bastard child Marshallxsmhxxsmhx

[whoanellie]

I just saw via CLT/Observer an Alum gave Davidson a $25 million gift for scholarships. Too bad they will not fund any football grants. I say kick their butts out of the SoCon.
no excuses they should not fully fund football.

[dgtw]

I realize its probably a necessity in non-FBS world, but I do not like hybrid leagues involving non-football schools. If football isn't your thing, fine. Just get out of my conference and let the rest of us play ball.

[PaladinFan]

This ignores that Davidson Basketball has made the Southern Conference (and its members) a lot of money in recent years. I have no idea of the actual numbers, but I would wager that Davidson's elite 8 appearance in 2008 was the largest revenue generator the SoCon has had in any sport.