2 FBS divisions?

[Sammy94]

Texas poured as much money into its athletics programs a year ago as eight of the nine schools in the more modestly resourced Sun Belt Conference did, combined, underscoring a growing issue in the NCAA's top football-playing bowl subdivision: Is it time to separate the haves from the have-nots?


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/story/2012-05-13/texas-william-powers-split-division-i-football/54959996/1

[Professor Chaos]

So the Big 6 conferences break off and start their own division. Then you'll have schools from the middle division overstepping their means to join the big six so they can play at the "highest level" until the Big 6 conferences are all 16-20 teams and you've got a 120 team division again. Then the biggest 3 of the Big 6 will split apart again and start their own 50-60 team highest division and it'll start all over again. Lather, rinse, repeat, and pretty soon the Alabama Institue for the Deaf and Blind will be winning FCS championships.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

the top 50 revenue producers — led by Texas — generated an average of nearly $81.5 million and the bottom 49 an average of a little more than $28 million.

The Big Boys aren't happy with their $81.5 million. They want the $28 million the little guys are getting, too!

[The Eagle's Cliff]

So the Big 6 conferences break off and start their own division. Then you'll have schools from the middle division overstepping their means to join the big six so they can play at the "highest level" until the Big 6 conferences are all 16-20 teams and you've got a 120 team division again. Then the biggest 3 of the Big 6 will split apart again and start their own 50-60 team highest division and it'll start all over again. Lather, rinse, repeat, and pretty soon the Alabama Institue for the Deaf and Blind will be winning FCS championships.

Didn't a similar school just win it January?xlolx

[Professor Chaos]

Didn't a similar school just win it January?xlolx
FBS championship. Yes. FCS championship. No.

[Sammy94]

Then you'll have schools from the middle division overstepping their means to join the big six so they can play at the "highest level"


Sounds like what a number of FCS schools are doing now.

[Professor Chaos]

Sounds like what a number of FCS schools are doing now.
Precisely xthumbsupx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

So the Big 6 conferences break off and start their own division. Then you'll have schools from the middle division overstepping their means to join the big six so they can play at the "highest level" until the Big 6 conferences are all 16-20 teams and you've got a 120 team division again. Then the biggest 3 of the Big 6 will split apart again and start their own 50-60 team highest division and it'll start all over again. Lather, rinse, repeat, and pretty soon the Alabama Institue for the Deaf and Blind will be winning FCS championships.

A couple years ago dback and I were arguing with some others on CS about the FBS and the money everyone thinks is there for them. I said then that ther will end up being 4 conferences with a total of 16 teams in each, with a N/S, E/W division in each for a total of 64 teams that could then have their own Conference championship game and use the bowl games as a playoff between the four conference champions.

All of the BCS bowls are spoken for at that point.

Much of what we were talking about then is now forming. It could go 9 a side, or 7 a side when it's all said and done but I think it's where they will end up and they won't even leave a carrot out there that you ever have a shot at the BCS money when it happens.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

A couple years ago dback and I were arguing with some others on CS about the FBS and the money everyone thinks is there for them. I said then that ther will end up being 4 conferences with a total of 16 teams in each, with a N/S, E/W division in each for a total of 64 teams that could then have their own Conference championship game and use the bowl games as a playoff between the four conference champions.

All of the BCS bowls are spoken for at that point.

Much of what we were talking about then is now forming. It could go 9 a side, or 7 a side when it's all said and done but I think it's where they will end up and they won't even leave a carrot out there that you ever have a shot at the BCS money when it happens.

I'd like to see an antitrust lawsuit filed against the BCS Corporation, the AQ Conferences, and their members. It seems that it's not enough for them to own a 90% market share, they want it all!

[DFW HOYA]

If the lower tier does not capitulate, ESPN will form the FPS (Football Premier Series) and take all the bowl money away.

[MplsBison]

So the Big 6 conferences break off and start their own division. Then you'll have schools from the middle division overstepping their means to join the big six so they can play at the "highest level" until the Big 6 conferences are all 16-20 teams and you've got a 120 team division again. Then the biggest 3 of the Big 6 will split apart again and start their own 50-60 team highest division and it'll start all over again. Lather, rinse, repeat, and pretty soon the Alabama Institue for the Deaf and Blind will be winning FCS championships.

Big 6?

The Big East is not a power conference. Hasn't been since they lost Miami and VT and certainly is no longer with the loss of WV.

The ACC is in danger of losing Florida St to the Big XII, believe it or not.



That would cement the Big 10, Pac 12, Big XII and SEC as the power four conferences in college athletics.

Four conferences, four conferences champions in the four team playoff. Easy, peasy.

[AmsterBison]

Didn't a similar school just win it January?xlolx

Lucky you guys didn't play NDSU in pinball because we play a mean game of, er, pinball.

[Hammerhead]

There should be 50-60 schools in the FBS. Kick the rest down to FCS and let the bottom dwellers of the FCS play in the D-II level for football.

[realgsu]

They could make 40 FBS divisions and Ga Southern still wouldn't get an invite.

[Gringer1]

Aww. Look at the cute little fan of one of the worst teams in the FCS. Isn't it cute how he tries to derail threads by inserting trash talk? I guess he doesn't have anything better to do but attempt to relieve his inferiority complex about how truly terrible his team is compared to Georgia Southern football.

[ws66370]

They could make 40 FBS divisions and Ga Southern still wouldn't get an invite.

Random Much?

[cpalum]

There should be 50-60 schools in the FBS. Kick the rest down to FCS and let the bottom dwellers of the FCS play in the D-II level for football.

I couldn't agree more

[DFW HOYA]

There should be 50-60 schools in the FBS. Kick the rest down to FCS and let the bottom dwellers of the FCS play in the D-II level for football.

Define bottom-dwellers.

[gotts]

Define bottom-dwellers.

Georgia State comes to mind.

[MplsBison]

Define bottom-dwellers.

Has nothing to do with performance on the field and everything to do with the financial commitment the school makes to the football program.

[TheRevSFA]

Define bottom-dwellers.

Nicholls State would be a prime example.

[Sammy94]

Bottom dwellers = finances.

Many may have missed this database in the article. This will define it better:


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-14/ncaa-college-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1

[RabidRabbit]

It would be gratifying to use a system that rewards good performance and a punishment (lower division) for a team that can't win. An example: Make a combined Big12, Sunbelt, Southland type arrangement. After two years, the top two teams of the Southland and Sunbelt move up, and the bottom two teams of the Big 12 and Sunbelt move down. This would allow the likes of a Boise St. to accomplish what they have achieved over a 20 year period. It would force the likes of a Northwestern (Chicago) to achieve, or possibly end up in an FCS level of play.

European Soccer Leagues use this to keep the marginal teams on their toes.

[49RFootballNow]

I'm just waiting for some enterprising young Congressman to step into Orrin Hatch's abandoned anti-BCS shoes, and push the IRS to start looking into the big programs' tax-exempt non-profit status. If there's money floating around out there the FedGov wants to tax it.

[GOODY26]

The wheels have been already set in motion.

[darell1976]

UND is #4 in the Big Sky in Total Revenue behind UC Davis, Cal Poly, and Montana State. Revenue should increase even more with ticket sales from being in the BSC.

[MplsBison]

It would be gratifying to use a system that rewards good performance and a punishment (lower division) for a team that can't win. An example: Make a combined Big12, Sunbelt, Southland type arrangement. After two years, the top two teams of the Southland and Sunbelt move up, and the bottom two teams of the Big 12 and Sunbelt move down. This would allow the likes of a Boise St. to accomplish what they have achieved over a 20 year period. It would force the likes of a Northwestern (Chicago) to achieve, or possibly end up in an FCS level of play.

European Soccer Leagues use this to keep the marginal teams on their toes.

It would be fun, but the only way I could see this happening would be within a massive, multi-divisional conference (that had the authority from the NCAA or another association to promote/demote internally within the conference).

For example, say the Big Ten bought or otherwise controlled the MAC and the MVFC today and was given permission by the NCAA to promote MVFC teams to the MAC and MAC teams to the Big Ten (and likewise for demotions) on a 2 or 4 year basis. Something like that might work.

It's just so far fetched...

[gotts]

UND is #4 in the Big Sky in Total Revenue behind UC Davis, Cal Poly, and Montana State. Revenue should increase even more with ticket sales from being in the BSC.

Is that football revenue? All conference-sponsored sports revenue? Is the number inflated with hockey revenues?

[darell1976]

Is that football revenue? All conference-sponsored sports revenue? Is the number inflated with hockey revenues?

Revenue catgories:

Ticket sales: Sales of admissions to athletics events. Include ticket sales to the public,faculty and students, and money received for shipping and handling of tickets. Does not include amounts in excess of face value (such as preferential seating) or sales for conference and national tournaments that are pass-through transactions.

Student fees: Fees assessed to support athletics.

Schools funds: Includes both direct and indirect support from the university, including state funds, tuition, tuition waivers etc. as well as federal Work Study amounts for athletes. It also includes university-provided support such as administrative costs, facilities and grounds maintenance, security, risk management, utilities, depreciation and debt service.

Contributions: Includes amounts received directly from individuals, corporations, associations, foundations, clubs or other organizations by the donor for the operation of the athletics program. Report amounts paid in excess of a ticket's value. Contributions include cash, marketable securities and in-kind contributions such as dealer-provided cars, apparel and drink products for team and staff use. Also includes revenue from preferential seating.

Rights/Licensing: Includes revenue for athletics from radio and television broadcasts, Internet and ecommerce rights received from institution-negotiated contracts, the NCAA and conference revenue sharing arrangements; ; and revenue from corporate sponsorships, licensing, sales of advertisements, trademarks and royalties. Includes the value of in-kind products and services provided as part of the sponsorship (e.g., equipment, apparel, soft drinks, water and isotonic products).

Other revenue: All other sources of revenue including game guarantees, support from third-parties guaranteed by the school such as TV income, housing allowances, camp income, etc.; tournament/bowl game revenues from conferences; endowments and investments; revenue from game programs, novelties, food or other concessions; and parking revenues and other sources.

[gotts]

Yes, I see that you cut and paste that. That's fine...

I'll ask again, darell...


Is that football revenue? All conference-sponsored sports revenue? Is the number inflated with hockey revenues?

[darell1976]

Yes, I see that you cut and paste that. That's fine...

I'll ask again, darell...

Obviously its all sports or it would say football revenue is this, basketball is this.

[Twentysix]

Obviously its all sports or it would say football revenue is this, basketball is this.

Wow, how do those other schools beat UND when they dont even play the same # of revenue sports? Thats hilarious.

Side note, Holy fees UND.

Lets say 14,000 students for each school which is more or less accurate.

NDSU student fee contribution 1 million. $71.50/student
UND student fee contribution 3.3 million. $236/student

It also shows NDSU made about 100,000 more on liscensing in 2011 than UND did.. With the Sioux logo being so profitable I find this hard to believe.

[DFW HOYA]

This would allow the likes of a Boise St. to accomplish what they have achieved over a 20 year period. It would force the likes of a Northwestern (Chicago) to achieve, or possibly end up in an FCS level of play.

Is this the same Northwestern that has earned four consecutive bowl bids under Pat Fitzgerald?

[Apps03]

It would be gratifying to use a system that rewards good performance and a punishment (lower division) for a team that can't win. An example: Make a combined Big12, Sunbelt, Southland type arrangement. After two years, the top two teams of the Southland and Sunbelt move up, and the bottom two teams of the Big 12 and Sunbelt move down. This would allow the likes of a Boise St. to accomplish what they have achieved over a 20 year period. It would force the likes of a Northwestern (Chicago) to achieve, or possibly end up in an FCS level of play.

European Soccer Leagues use this to keep the marginal teams on their toes.

Maybe something like this
http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2012/5/16/3022653/conference-realignment-college-football-relegation?tw_p=twt

[Professor Chaos]

Is this the same Northwestern that has earned four consecutive bowl bids under Pat Fitzgerald?
You're correct, Minnesota is far more deserving of getting kicked out of the Big Ten. Then again, they can't even beat MAC schools.... or FCS schools for that matter. Jeesh, I guess we might as well send the Gophers to the NISC in D2 if we really want them to be able to compete on the gridiron.

[MplsBison]

You're correct, Minnesota is far more deserving of getting kicked out of the Big Ten. Then again, they can't even beat MAC schools.... or FCS schools for that matter. Jeesh, I guess we might as well send the Gophers to the NISC in D2 if we really want them to be able to compete on the gridiron.

I'd like to think Jerry Kill will turn the team around in a few years...we'll see.

[Professor Chaos]

I'd like to think Jerry Kill will turn the team around in a few years...we'll see.
Well, he's gotta do better than Brewster did. He's at least doing a better job of getting the top kids from in state who've wanted to be Gophers their whole lives and will be giving supreme effort.

[apaladin]

Well I told you so. No way are the big boys of college football going to stand idly by and be associated with all the FBS wannabe's that are moving up. All of these teams that are hell bent on moving up will be moving to another level of obscurity.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Well I told you so. No way are the big boys of college football going to stand idly by and be associated with all the FBS wannabe's that are moving up. All of these teams that are hell bent on moving up will be moving to another level of obscurity.

That's quite true, but the level of obscurity just below the big boys is less obscure than the level below the level just below the big boys.

I hope that clears it up.

[Saint3333]

That's quite true, but the level of obscurity just below the big boys is less obscure than the level below the level just below the big boys.

I hope that clears it up.

App's AD pretty said that today on the David Glenn show. Just trying to position ourselves for when that split happens.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

App's AD pretty said that today on the David Glenn show. Just trying to position ourselves for when that split happens.

I'm sure there are some advantages but I can't see them clearly so did he mention what that new position would do to enhance above what those who are waiting it out and making the jump at a time when things were not so up in the air about what will be?