Liberty announces intentions to move up:

[Skjellyfetti]

Liberty University is seeking to compete at the Division I level for its football program.

Chancellor and President Jerry Falwell Jr. said Saturday that the private Christian university has conducted a feasibility study to examine whether it can compete effectively at the Division I Football Bowl Subdivision level. The school's other programs already have full NCAA Division I status.

The football team currently competes at the Football Championship Subdivision level, formerly known as Division I-AA, in the Big South Conference.

Falwell and Liberty athletics officials say they plan to discuss the feasibility study in more detail next week.

http://www.wdbj7.com/sports/wdbj7-liberty-university-seeks-move-to-college-footballs-top-division-20120512,0,1732935.story?track=rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[UNH Fanboi]

**** it, why doesn't everybody just move up.

[superman7515]

Falwell Announces FBS Intentions (http://www.libertyflames.com/index.cfm?PID=10869&NewsID=9058)


Before a record crowd at Williams Stadium on Saturday for its 39th Commencement ceremony, Chancellor and President Jerry Falwell, Jr., announced Liberty University's intention to seek NCAA Division I Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) conference affiliation for its 20-team athletics program.

During the last six months, Liberty University has worked with Carr Sports Consulting, LLC, to conduct an exhaustive analysis of its athletics and University programs.

The expansive FBS Feasibility study examined all facets of the University to see if Liberty University is capable of meeting the demands of competing at the highest level of NCAA Division I competition.

Falwell, along with Liberty University Director of Athletics Jeff Barber and Bill Carr will hold a press conference on Monday to further discuss the findings of the FBS Feasibility study.

The press conference, which will be open to both members of the media and the general public, will be held in the Club Pavilion of the Williams Stadium Tower at 1 p.m. (EST).

[Gringer1]

Liberty's biggest obstacle to making the move is an image problem. Many people see them as a diploma mill school and their history can be a big drawback. Protesting the appearance of the Republican presidential candidate on your campus just because he's Mormon doesn't help you get over the perception that you're a bunch of bigots.

[superman7515]

With Coastal Carolina already having permission to seek a new conference, Stony Brook continually rumored to be on the CAA radar, and Liberty announcing their intentions on moving up to FBS (whether they make it or not) the Big South will have to be looking for expansion or they will give up their autobid. If any one of the three leaves, that puts the conference at the 6 team minimum, which is terrible for scheduling purposes anyway. That leaves Charleston Southern, Presbyterian, Gardner-Webb, and VMI as basically free agents. If their preference would be to stay together, do they target one or two of the MEAC schools in the Carolina's and/or Virginia to secure the conference? The MEAC has 11 schools, so they're currently tied with the CAA as the largest FCS conference until all the re-arranging gets finished. South Carolina State has already expressed their desire for more travel friendly arrangements without coming right out and saying whether they were interested in leaving or urging the MEAC to add another school and break into divisions.

[Bam]

Larry Flynt requested you stay in FCS or else!

[JSUBison]

Liberty's biggest obstacle to making the move is an image problem. Many people see them as a diploma mill school and their history can be a big drawback. Protesting the appearance of the Republican presidential candidate on your campus just because he's Mormon doesn't help you get over the perception that you're a bunch of bigots.

BYU vs Liberty. Make it happen. The tailgating would be epic. xrolleyesx

[Bogus Megapardus]

Good luck to Liberty U. going forward. Whatever happens, it was great having you guys up in Easton. Terrific team, fantastic fans, and the marching band was an unexpected bonus.

As far as the other political/philosophical stuff, a private schools may include or exclude whomsoever it pleases - whether you and I personally agree with it or not. I don't, but this is America and that decision constitutes the true definition of "Liberty" at its essence.

[Rabbit74]

The MEAC has 11 schools, so they're currently tied with the CAA as the largest FCS conference until all the re-arranging gets finished. .

Not quite the largest, The Big Sky has 13 for football, Last year they had 9 but are adding Southern Utah and North Dakota for all sports this year and Cal Poly and UC Davis for football only.

[superman7515]

Not quite the largest, The Big Sky has 13 for football, Last year they had 9 but are adding Southern Utah and North Dakota for all sports this year and Cal Poly and UC Davis for football only.

Which would be why I said "until all the re-arranging gets finished"..... As of right now, they still have only 9.

[Seawolf97]

As I posted a few times. Dont be surprised if we see VMI headed for the PL very soon. The Big South as a football conference is set to implode in the next year or so.

[Gringer1]

Good luck to Liberty U. going forward. Whatever happens, it was great having you guys up in Easton. Terrific team, fantastic fans, and the marching band was an unexpected bonus.

As far as the other political/philosophical stuff, a private schools may include or exclude whomsoever it pleases - whether you and I personally agree with it or not. I don't, but this is America and that decision constitutes the true definition of "Liberty" at its essence.

And conferences have the right to say that a school doesn't fit their culture. All I'm saying is that Liberty carries a lot of baggage to some people and that will make a lot of conferences wary of taking on a potential liability.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Uhhh, don't you need an invitation from an FBS conference to go FBS?

[Webzy]

They don't fit the "market" aspect for the Sun Belt and I think the MAC is content right now.

I do think this is a perfect opportunity for the WAC to start building an "East" conference, if they still want to have FBS football. Liberty would join any conference given the invite and if they invite Liberty, JMU could soon follow, since it would be a travel partner. App State, Georgia Southern, Jax State? would be part of it. MSU, Montana, and NDSU added to the West, to go along with Idaho, and NMSU.

I think the WAC is dead but just throwing out a possibility of a desperate conference with schools who want FBS ASAP.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

They don't fit the "market" aspect for the Sun Belt and I think the MAC is content right now.

I do think this is a perfect opportunity for the WAC to start building an "East" conference, if they still want to have FBS football. Liberty would join any conference given the invite and if they invite Liberty, JMU could soon follow, since it would be a travel partner. App State, Georgia Southern, Jax State? would be part of it. MSU, Montana, and NDSU added to the West, to go along with Idaho, and NMSU.

i can not tell you how truly uninviting that looks...to maybe every one except Liberty, Idaho, and NMSU.

That would make me real sick real quick. The WAC is dead for all intents and purposes. They've already been turned down by 6 FCS schools in the last year and a half and I don't think they'll ask those same schools a second time in order to save a little dignity at this point.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

They don't fit the "market" aspect for the Sun Belt and I think the MAC is content right now.

I do think this is a perfect opportunity for the WAC to start building an "East" conference, if they still want to have FBS football. Liberty would join any conference given the invite and if they invite Liberty, JMU could soon follow, since it would be a travel partner. App State, Georgia Southern, Jax State? would be part of it. MSU, Montana, and NDSU added to the West, to go along with Idaho, and NMSU.

If they change the name from 'WAC' to 'The Big Disgusting', I think you're on to something.

[Go...gate]

Larry Flynt requested you stay in FCS or else!

That was actually interesting when Jerry Sr. and Larry went all over the place and debated. I thought they did a good job.

[Go...gate]

If I'm Liberty, I go Independent for a few years and get my feet wet, play a transitional schedule and build up my facilities. Williams is a nice ballpark but it will cost money to add seats, weight-room facilities, etc. Just ask Lafayette, who did it the right way - that place is a jewel - but it sure was not cheap.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

[QUOTE=Webzy;1792324]They don't fit the "market" aspect for the Sun Belt and I think the MAC is content right now.

Timing is everything, and the MAC is at 13 for football, adding UMass but losing Temple. They have reserved the right to end UMass' association due to Temple's departure. Liberty could even the odd for football, while remaining in the Big South for everything else. JMU would be a better match, I would think, but it is only one slot, open in the Fall of 2013.

[danefan]

Fresno St Alumn made a great point on CS.com

Remember when Jacksonville St announced their intention to move up?

How's that working out.

[superman7515]

Understandable, but they still have an issue because Coastal Carolina was given permission to go anywhere they felt was in their best interest and Stony Brook has at least decent odds of being the Georgia State replacement. That puts them at the 6 team minimum with 2 more schools waiting to leave and takes basketball from the 12 the conference had been seeking and just reached with Longwood back to 11 which the member schools had said all along was not enough.

[Cocky]

Fresno St Alumn made a great point on CS.com

Remember when Jacksonville St announced their intention to move up?

How's that working out.

Had conversations with a few conferences but havent gotten the right opportunity.

[UNH Fanboi]

Had conversations with a few conferences but havent gotten the right opportunity.

Have they been affirmatively offered an opportunity in any FBS conference?

[danefan]

Had conversations with a few conferences but havent gotten the right opportunity.

SBC was the obvious location. They must have passed on JSU.

I can't imagine JSU would pass on that chance. Where else is tree to go?

Like JMU - what besides a nice stadium do you have to offer? No media market.

It's not a knock on JSU, but more of the reality of the situation. TV dollars are driving everything right now.

[Cocky]

Have they been affirmatively offered an opportunity in any FBS conference?

Feel sure if CUSA or SB had offered we would have accepted not sure if the WAC offered or not.

[Cocky]

SBC was the obvious location. They must have passed on JSU.

I can't imagine JSU would pass on that chance. Where else is tree to go?

Like JMU - what besides a nice stadium do you have to offer? No media market.

It's not a knock on JSU, but more of the reality of the situation. TV dollars are driving everything right now.

JSU is in the BHM which is in the 30s and very highly rated in college football viewers. JSU has almost 800,000 pop within 50 miles so it not quite out in the middle of nowhere.

[OL FU]

Good luck to Liberty U. going forward. Whatever happens, it was great having you guys up in Easton. Terrific team, fantastic fans, and the marching band was an unexpected bonus.

As far as the other political/philosophical stuff, a private schools may include or exclude whomsoever it pleases - whether you and I personally agree with it or not. I don't, but this is America and that decision constitutes the true definition of "Liberty" at its essence.

I don't disagree but isn't the issue whether thay can find a conference that will put up with that. Liberty also means a conference saying, you know, your political and philosophical issues don't quite fit us.

[OL FU]

And conferences have the right to say that a school doesn't fit their culture. All I'm saying is that Liberty carries a lot of baggage to some people and that will make a lot of conferences wary of taking on a potential liability.

You beat me to it

[MplsBison]

Good luck to Liberty U. going forward. Whatever happens, it was great having you guys up in Easton. Terrific team, fantastic fans, and the marching band was an unexpected bonus.

As far as the other political/philosophical stuff, a private schools may include or exclude whomsoever it pleases - whether you and I personally agree with it or not. I don't, but this is America and that decision constitutes the true definition of "Liberty" at its essence.

Just a second there, professor.

Your tax dollars, my tax dollars and everyone here's tax dollars are going directly into the Liberty University coffers, via the federal tuition assistance programs.

Don't get me wrong, if I had the power to block that from happening - I would. Any young man or woman who is choosing to attend Liberty obviously has a devout belief in Jesus Christ, so I say let him provide for these costs. A campus made up of 100% baptists and 95% whites isn't gonna do it for me.


But since we know that isn't going to happen, it's our tax dollars who are providing for it.

So we all do damn well have a say in how Liberty picks and chooses its student body. And I for one would like to see quite a bit more diversity injected into that campus.

[Cider Jim]

With all due respect, Bison, your stats aren't even close: LU is less than 40% Baptist and 65% whites.
https://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=6925

And as long as you are talking diversity, Liberty has students from all 50 states and 70 foreign countries.
http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=17156

And Larry Flynt and Jerry Falwell later became close personal friends:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-op-flynt20may20,0,2751741.story

[Gringer1]

If I'm Liberty, I go Independent for a few years and get my feet wet, play a transitional schedule and build up my facilities. Williams is a nice ballpark but it will cost money to add seats, weight-room facilities, etc. Just ask Lafayette, who did it the right way - that place is a jewel - but it sure was not cheap.

You can't join the FBS as an independent anymore.

[MplsBison]

With all due respect, Bison, your stats aren't even close: LU is less than 40% Baptist and 65% whites.
https://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=6925

And as long as you are talking diversity, Liberty has students from all 50 states and 70 foreign countries.
http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=17156

And Larry Flynt and Jerry Falwell later became close personal friends:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-op-flynt20may20,0,2751741.story

Didn't see anything in the links about student body faith and for race there were 21% simply "not listed", obviously a ploy to make the school seem less white.

Obviously 3% Asian and 3% Hispanic is nowhere near the average in the US and 7% black is not even close to Virginia let alone the country.

Technically I could buy 40% Baptist but it has to be close to 100% evangelical Christians.


I want more Asians, Hispanics and blacks and more Catholics, non-evangelical protestants, Muslims and Jewish students enrolled at Liberty before I agree to keep allowing my tax dollars to pay their tuitions.

[nwFL Griz]

Didn't see anything in the links about student body faith and for race there were 21% simply "not listed", obviously a ploy to make the school seem less white.

Obviously 3% Asian and 3% Hispanic is nowhere near the average in the US and 7% black is not even close to Virginia let alone the country.

Technically I could buy 40% Baptist but it has to be close to 100% evangelical Christians.


I want more Asians, Hispanics and blacks and more Catholics, non-evangelical protestants, Muslims and Jewish students enrolled at Liberty before I agree to keep allowing my tax dollars to pay their tuitions.

Mpls, quit being an idiot. Tuition assistance is nothing like the tax dollars public schools receive. The only thing you would be denying with your scheme, is the students' right to choose which university they want to attend.

[MplsBison]

Mpls, quit being an idiot. Tuition assistance is nothing like the tax dollars public schools receive. The only thing you would be denying with your scheme, is the students' right to choose which university they want to attend.

They do have the right to attend any university. I wouldn't be denying them that right in the slightest.

Simply, they won't be getting any federal assistance to pay the tuition.


Is it really any different than saying you don't want federal tuition assistance to pay for tuition to an all-Muslim school?

[Sir William]

Didn't see anything in the links about student body faith and for race there were 21% simply "not listed", obviously a ploy to make the school seem less white.

Obviously 3% Asian and 3% Hispanic is nowhere near the average in the US and 7% black is not even close to Virginia let alone the country.

Technically I could buy 40% Baptist but it has to be close to 100% evangelical Christians.


I want more Asians, Hispanics and blacks and more Catholics, non-evangelical protestants, Muslims and Jewish students enrolled at Liberty before I agree to keep allowing my tax dollars to pay their tuitions.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but some of your comments....well:

A ploy? A ploy? Really? What ploy do you speak of and accuse the school of? Do you have evidence?

Whatever the % of black students, can you sight evidence of racial discrimination (of which you seem to be inferring accusation) on the part of Liberty? For arguments sake, how do you know they don't accept 100% of every black applicant who has at least a B average in high school? Just asking.

If indeed it's 100% evangelical (and it's not), what's that to you? Does it piss you off that BYU is overwhelmingly Mormon, that Notre Dame/Boston College/Georgetown/etc are overwhelmingly Catholic, or that Presbyterian College is overwhelmingly Presbyterian? Just wondering, b/c you seem to have so little to say about those schools. And by the way, whatever % of what Liberty is in regard to anything has nothing to do with their right to move to FBS if they like and if they can, wouldn't you agree...or are you that bigotted?


Again, I have no dog in this fight; but you are a retard of the first degree.

[dgtw]

My tax dollars go to Alabama A&M and Alabama State. I want them to become more diverse before they continue to sponge off of me.

[The Cats]

If indeed it's 100% evangelical (and it's not), what's that to you?

Does it piss you off that BYU is overwhelmingly Mormon, that Notre Dame/Boston College/Georgetown/etc are overwhelmingly Catholic, or that Presbyterian College is overwhelmingly Presbyterian? Just wondering, b/c you seem to have so little to say about those schools.

And by the way, whatever % of what Liberty is in regard to anything has nothing to do with their right to move to FBS if they like and if they can, wouldn't you agree...or are you that bigotted? Again, I have no dog in this fight; but you are a retard of the first degree.

Amen.

[Cocky]

I dont care where you go to school

[laxVik]

Shame Bob Jones U and Oral Roberts don't have teams. They and Liberty could form a super FBS league - Big Sacrament. Or B.S. for short.

[fc97]

federal aid or state aid given on a discriminatory basis then because an endorsement or non-endorsement at the same time. at that point, how do you draw a line between say liberty, byu, campbell or oral roberts with schools like elon, duke, wake forest or boston college?

many of your arguments just show an anti-private school bias, which you are proud to show here. if that's the case, then state schools should not be allowed to offer out of state students help with in-state funds or offer out of state students in-state type scholarship equivalences.

seriously.... come on

[MplsBison]

federal aid or state aid given on a discriminatory basis then because an endorsement or non-endorsement at the same time. at that point, how do you draw a line between say liberty, byu, campbell or oral roberts with schools like elon, duke, wake forest or boston college?

many of your arguments just show an anti-private school bias, which you are proud to show here. if that's the case, then state schools should not be allowed to offer out of state students help with in-state funds or offer out of state students in-state type scholarship equivalences.

seriously.... come on

It's not about private schools vs public schools. I love private schools, especially those who don't claim any affiliation with a church.

Yes I know, theologians from the churches and monasteries were the first scholars and they started many of the colleges we have today.

Don't care.

Our country was founded by people who thought it perfectly reasonable that human beings from the continent of Africa were actually just animals, not real people and therefore they could be treated as animals.

Opinions and understandings rightly evolve with time.


I'm not even going to say that I'm against religious universities existing. No more than churches existing, anyway. People who attend such places, that's their business. But they deserve no special treatment just because they attend those places. People in this country who follow the teachings of Jesus Christ think they should be treated like royalty.

People who choose to go to schools like Liberty University, should not be eligible for federal tuition assistance programs.

The criteria can be as simple as this for private schools: is the diversity of the student body in regards to race, religion and socio-economic background at least equal to that of the US population? If so - then the students of the school are eligible for federal tuition assistance programs. If not, then no.

For public schools, then the criteria can be similar but only needing to have diversity at least equal to the state population.

Under that criteria, Liberty easily does not qualify and they would rather choose not to than to diversify themselves in order to be in compliance.

[The Cats]

People who choose to go to schools like Liberty University, should not be eligible for federal tuition assistance programs.

Your opinion, you have a right to it.

But just because you have a right to it, doesn't make your opinion right. You participate in the only "politically correct" bigotry today, that directed against Evangelical Christians. Oh, and by the way, when did you get to decide which students were eligible to receive federal tuition assistance?

I'll bet you're even against voucher programs that would allow children of all races and ethnic backgrounds to get out of today's failed public schools.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

It's not about private schools vs public schools. I love private schools, especially those who don't claim any affiliation with a church.

Yes I know, theologians from the churches and monasteries were the first scholars and they started many of the colleges we have today.

Don't care.

Our country was founded by people who thought it perfectly reasonable that human beings from the continent of Africa were actually just animals, not real people and therefore they could be treated as animals.

Opinions and understandings rightly evolve with time.


I'm not even going to say that I'm against religious universities existing. No more than churches existing, anyway. People who attend such places, that's their business. But they deserve no special treatment just because they attend those places. People in this country who follow the teachings of Jesus Christ think they should be treated like royalty.

People who choose to go to schools like Liberty University, should not be eligible for federal tuition assistance programs.

The criteria can be as simple as this for private schools: is the diversity of the student body in regards to race, religion and socio-economic background at least equal to that of the US population? If so - then the students of the school are eligible for federal tuition assistance programs. If not, then no.

For public schools, then the criteria can be similar but only needing to have diversity at least equal to the state population.

Under that criteria, Liberty easily does not qualify and they would rather choose not to than to diversify themselves in order to be in compliance.

The fundamental flaw with that reasoning is that federal tuition assistance programs offer the greatest benefits to students from low income families, many of which are minorities. Disallowing those students to use such aid to attend a school with a low minority student population would further exacerbate the disproportional enrollment.

As long as a school does not actively discriminate based on race, religion, or economic status I have no problem with students at that institution receiving federal tuition assistance. If Liberty has a smaller than average percentage of minority students than average it doesn't necessarily mean that the school is trying to exclude minorities, it could simply be that the campus culture isn't attracting many minority students.

A bigger issue with Liberty is that the school policy is apparently still teaches young earth creationism as opposed to evolution in biology classes. Given that, I don't see how anyone graduating from that school with a biology degree can be taken seriously. There are plenty of church founded and religious-order-affiliated schools that understand that the Bible, especially the old testament, contains many passages that are allegorical and not meant to be taken as literal fact, and are thus able to stay true to their faith while teaching nearly universally accepted scientific principles.

[fc97]

so, by that logic, every school should be representative of the demographic of the country or the state? you'll see schools like appalachian and western become less diverse than private schools from different parts of the state. north dakota state doesnt even represent the demographics of north dakota, let alone that of the country.

your reasoning is just flat out flawed. and it becomes less about equality or choose and more about a dynamic that is, by the very nature, flawed in that it isnt attainable as the choice to go to college is a just that, a choice.

[LakesBison]

if liberty is FBS and NDSU is not, then this is bull___

[TheBisonator]

You participate in the only "politically correct" bigotry today, that directed against Evangelical Christians.

Don't give me that bullcrap. Evangelical Christians are the ones dishing it out, not taking it.

Try being a Muslim in the US today. It's not fun if people know what religion you are.

[laxVik]

^this

[Sir William]

^is bullcrap

(FIFY)

[WileECoyote06]

My tax dollars go to Alabama A&M and Alabama State. I want them to become more diverse before they continue to sponge off of me.

Encourage people to apply and/or accept scholarship money to go there then. Neither AAMU, nor Alabama State can discriminate against applicants based on race, religion or creed.

xnodx

[UNH Fanboi]

Guys, let's not start a holy war on AGS. There are plenty of other venues on the internet to debate religion and politics if you want to.

[MplsBison]

Guys, let's not start a holy war on AGS. There are plenty of other venues on the internet to debate religion and politics if you want to.

Bogus is the one who can't help himself, injecting his Libertarian twist when he sees fit.

But I will agree to take this to the lounge or some other forum if the mods will move the posts there.

[SumItUp]

I do not know when Liberty will make the move because it requires an invitation from a conference, but with the fast moving pace of realignment, our time will come. Our feasibility study was done by the highly respected (check the list of previous clients below) Carr Sports Associates, LLC. Bill Carr, principal of the company, offered the following comment in Saturday's press release.


Liberty has made giant strides in every phase of their athletics program and especially in football. They are the best prepared for FBS advancement of all universities for whom we have conducted similar studies over the past 21 years. We believe that their exemplary level of funding for athletics, the strength of their football coaching staff and the exceptional quality of their support facilities demonstrate the university's unquestioned commitment to excellence. Liberty is definitely on the move!

If you want to watch the press conference regarding the findings of the study, you it will be streamed live online or with a free app on your iPhone, Droid or Blackberry devices. Go to http://www.liberty.edu/news/index.cfm?PID=25587. The press conference is scheduled to begin at 1:00pm, EST (Monday, May 14, 2012).

Carr Sports Associates lists the following as previous clients:

Division I FBS
Duke, Texas, LSU, North Carolina State, Virginia, Washington State, Iowa State, North Carolina, Tennessee, Maryland, Florida, Toledo, Auburn, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Troy, Florida Atlantic, Utah, South Florida, Clemson, Southern Mississippi, Buffalo, Michigan State, Miami University, Northern Illinois, North Texas, Arkansas State, Conference USA, Mid-American Conference, Ohio Valley Conference, Atlantic 10 Conference.

Division I FCS, I-AAA
James Madison, North Dakota State, Butler, Long Beach State, Texas San Antonio, Sacramento State, Evansville, Towson, Cal State Northridge, Utah State, Southeast Louisiana, Montana State, American University, Elon, North Carolina Asheville, Canisius, Southeast Missouri State, Horizon League.

Affiliated Organizations
National Football Foundation & College Hall of Fame, Orange Bowl, Florida Citrus Sports.

[superman7515]

The OVC & A-10 are FBS? Hmm...

[phoenix3]

I come from the philosophy of "forgiveness shouldn't come with a debt" otherwise it's called extortion. But, having said that, I respect Liberty immensely. I suspect that the reason many people choose to attend/not attend schools like Liberty or BYU is because of the disciplenary factor as much as, (possibly more than), the religious. Quite frankly, I see Liberty, BYU and others like them as being part of "diversity". If all schools were like Alabama and Alabama State, ie. secular non religious, that would be a lack of diversity, no?

Either way, I also have no dog in this hunt. I do, however, wish Liberty lots of success in their quest to move to FBS.

[Apphole]

Best prepared for FBS? xlolx

They may have the deepest pockets, but the fanship isn't there, the success isn't there and the TV market isn't there. Not to mention the backwards, discriminatory political views.

[tribefan40]

Best prepared for FBS? xlolx

They may have the deepest pockets, but the fanship isn't there, the success isn't there and the TV market isn't there. Not to mention the backwards, discriminatory political views.

I'd say in order of importance the deep pockets bit is 1,2 and 3. followed by tv market (they do have their own private, established network - no idea of the viewership though) which is tied to fanship, least of all success. They do have an ever growing student body (not just online), and as someone who has been to a few LU games, the fanship is most definitely there (particularly when schools like JMU come to town).

Liberty has the money, drive, facilities and size to move up quickly. It'll happen sooner than we all think.

[Apphole]

I'd say in order of importance the deep pockets bit is 1,2 and 3. followed by tv market (they do have their own private, established network - no idea of the viewership though) which is tied to fanship, least of all success. They do have an ever growing student body (not just online), and as someone who has been to a few LU games, the fanship is most definitely there (particularly when schools like JMU come to town).

Liberty has the money, drive, facilities and size to move up quickly. It'll happen sooner than we all think.

Market is absolutely #1. I don't see how you could argue otherwise in light of recent movement. Money is certainly #2, but support is very important. That is why Nova is not playing Big East football right now.

Liberty makes it's money from online degrees while publicly supporting discrimination. I think they are at the wrong end of the list of FCS move-ups at this point, regardless of what some biased research company blathers.

[danefan]

I'd say in order of importance the deep pockets bit is 1,2 and 3. followed by tv market (they do have their own private, established network - no idea of the viewership though) which is tied to fanship, least of all success. They do have an ever growing student body (not just online), and as someone who has been to a few LU games, the fanship is most definitely there (particularly when schools like JMU come to town).

Liberty has the money, drive, facilities and size to move up quickly. It'll happen sooner than we all think.


The only factor that really matters right now for who is moving up is what conference wants Liberty?

Schools can have all the money, drive and facilities in the world right now and it won't get them anywhere without a suitor. See JMU.

[phoenix3]

I actually think Liberty will have a relatively solid TV market. I think there is an enormous number of Baptists/fundamentalist Christians from the Mississippi River east that may become LU fans if for no other reasons but the Baptist and Jerry Falwell affiliation. Their draw is definately not just regional.

[danefan]

I actually think Liberty will have a relatively solid TV market. I think there is an enormous number of Baptists/fundamentalist Christians from the Mississippi River east that may become LU fans if for no other reasons but the Baptist and Jerry Falwell affiliation. Their draw is definately not just regional.

Agreed on that front. The question still is - which conference is willing to take on the political risk of adding Liberty.

You cannot deny there is a risk. There may be reward, but there is also a risk.

[phoenix3]

Agreed on that front. The question still is - which conference is willing to take on the political risk of adding Liberty.

You cannot deny there is a risk. There may be reward, but there is also a risk.

There is definately a risk. There certainly will be a lot of LU haters out there. But, from a conference stand point, I'm not so sure that isn't a plus. Hatred also creates a draw. I know I sound like the "devil's advocate"... but, the very thing that makes them despised by some may be a partial reason for their and their prospective conference's success. Like it or not, controversy sells.

[danefan]

There is definately a risk. There certainly will be a lot of LU haters out there. But, from a conference stand point, I'm not so sure that isn't a plus. Hatred also creates a draw. I know I sound like the "devil's advocate"... but, the very thing that makes them despised by some may be a partial reason for their and their prospective conference's success. Like it or not, controversy sells.

Agreed.

All press is good press, right?

LU just has to find a conference that is willing to see that side of things.

[91Niner]

With all due respect, Bison, your stats aren't even close: LU is less than 40% Baptist and 65% whites.
https://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=6925

And as long as you are talking diversity, Liberty has students from all 50 states and 70 foreign countries.
http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=17156

And Larry Flynt and Jerry Falwell later became close personal friends:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-op-flynt20may20,0,2751741.story

Well done.

[Cocky]

I don't understand the risk of Liberty but not BYU, Notre Dame, Boston College or SMU ... I guess I'm different in believe you should go to school anywhere you please. Different schools allow for diversity so everyone can be happy.

[tribefan40]

Market is absolutely #1. I don't see how you could argue otherwise in light of recent movement. Money is certainly #2, but support is very important. That is why Nova is not playing Big East football right now.

Liberty makes it's money from online degrees while publicly supporting discrimination. I think they are at the wrong end of the list of FCS move-ups at this point, regardless of what some biased research company blathers.

I think desperation has driven recent movement, as it will any further movement. After a select few, markets even out, and they start deciding what bodies are warmer than others. I would say Liberty is in the same boat as JMU and even App from that perspective.

[realgsu]

The big south will be ok once Kennesaw St joins.

[danefan]

I don't understand the risk of Liberty but not BYU, Notre Dame, Boston College or SMU ... I guess I'm different in believe you should go to school anywhere you please. Different schools allow for diversity so everyone can be happy.

None of those schools have a singular polarizing individual name attached. Liberty does.

Plus after time Liberty will establish itself as something other than Falwell U. You can already see that happening today. Give it 50+ years and the risk goes away.

[MplsBison]

Only BYU is even close to Liberty.

No one thinks of Notre dame, BC or SMU as religious institutions. Just religious affiliated.


BYU is an extension of the Mormon church, but even then it's not as bad as Liberty. At least it's part of the mainstream church and not a one-off vision of a crackpot.

Liberty is the personal project of a Christian extremist to enlist and train a "Christ army".

[DFW HOYA]

BYU is an extension of the Mormon church, but even then it's not as bad as Liberty. At least it's part of the mainstream church and not a one-off vision of a crackpot.

I think many of these Mpls posts are simply made to stir up trouble. Have you ever read the story of Brigham Young the person?

[chattownmocs]

Here comes the far left liberal trash dumping on Liberty. It's not enough for them that nearly every public university in this country teaches a far left liberal world view, they think that private institutions should be forced to do the same. It's quite funny to be honest. So what if Liberty university are a bunch of right wing lunatics? They can't be as far right as some of the most "prestigious" public universities are left.

The other joke is that evangelical Christians are bigots because they actually believe what they think their holy book tells them and try to live by it. Although they fail miserably when it comes to actually dispensating scripture, I have far more respect for them then others who claim a religion but do not follow its tenets. Or the cowardly atheists who seem to get so angry over something that they don't believe.

[Professor Chaos]

I can't wait until there's actual football to talk about...

[ButlerGSU]

Only BYU is even close to Liberty.

No one thinks of Notre dame, BC or SMU as religious institutions. Just religious affiliated.


BYU is an extension of the Mormon church, but even then it's not as bad as Liberty. At least it's part of the mainstream church and not a one-off vision of a crackpot.

Liberty is the personal project of a Christian extremist to enlist and train a "Christ army".

I agree, just as TCU's website states "They are affiliated with but not governed by the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). Basically, they believe in Christian principles but they do not force it on students like Liberty does. They also accept student from any faith, not just Christian.

[dgtw]

Many conferences would beg a school to join that is run by an organization that for years covered up pedophiles who work for them.

I think Liberty could get into the Sun Belt. I'd wager a lot of the big money people at Sun Belt schools are affiliated with Baptist or evangelical churches, even if they've never set foot on Liberty's campus.

[superman7515]

Many conferences would beg a school to join that is run by an organization that for years covered up pedophiles who work for them.

In the Villanova and the Big East sense or the more literal Penn State and the Big 10 sense?

[Webzy]

BYU is an extension of the Mormon church, but even then it's not as bad as Liberty. At least it's part of the mainstream church and not a one-off vision of a crackpot.



Mormon Church leaders are also part the school, the same leaders that had huge influences in the Cali marriage ban. Plus Mormons have a reputation of being racists.

Please they are a lot worse than Liberty. Like Liberty 90% of christian schools have similar policy in place about LGBT. Baylor, my school Gardner Webb, Oral Roberts, Notre Dame etc...

[Apphole]

I think Liberty could get into the Sun Belt. I'd wager a lot of the big money people at Sun Belt schools are affiliated with Baptist or evangelical churches, even if they've never set foot on Liberty's campus.

The SBC fans sure hate the idea

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=568800

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=569924

[ngineer]

The ol' road to Hell is paved with good 'intentions'. Good luck Liberty...you will need it.

[dgtw]

The SBC fans sure hate the idea

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=568800

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=569924

I thought the comment from the South Alabama fan saying he didn't want FCS startups in the league was funny.

[LakesBison]

Carr Sports Associates lists the following as previous clients:

Division I FCS, I-AAA
James Madison, North Dakota State


Sounds good to me, all CARR needs to do is send the FBS report right over the NDSU's President Dean Brechani.

[Go...gate]

Only BYU is even close to Liberty.

No one thinks of Notre Dame, BC or SMU as religious institutions. Just religious affiliated.

BYU is an extension of the Mormon church, but even then it's not as bad as Liberty. At least it's part of the mainstream church and not a one-off vision of a crackpot.

Liberty is the personal project of a Christian extremist to enlist and train a "Christ army".

MPLS, you swung and missed on the first two. Have you ever been to either campus? Do you realize that both heavily support and advocate Catholic philosophy/theology in all their programs? Marist may be "religious affiliated" to use your terminology, but not ND, BC or Georgetown, for that matter.

[jcmanson]

The ignorance some of you have of Liberty is laughable

[dgtw]

In the Villanova and the Big East sense or the more literal Penn State and the Big 10 sense?

Actually, I had Notre Dame in mind when I wrote that.

[danefan]

The ignorance some of you have of Liberty is laughable

Ignorant or not, some of the opinions of Liberty as Falwell U, etc.. are the common sentiment for most sports fans.

That's the issue a potential conference suitor will have to grapple with.

[TheRevSFA]

Will they have a statue of Jerry Falwell getting God to smite the Ragin Cajuns out infront of the stadium?

[Apphole]

The ignorance some of you have of Liberty is laughable

Ignorance? Lobbying for the oppression of homosexuals is ignorance.

[chattownmocs]

Ignorance? Lobbying for the oppression of homosexuals is ignorance.

It really is sad that you can't get married in the great state of North Carolina now. I'm sure you will find a new home in the northeast somewhere.

[Apphole]

It really is sad that you can't get married in the great state of North Carolina now. I'm sure you will find a new home in the northeast somewhere.

No ****, I KNEW you would say exactly that.

"He isn't in favor of oppressing gay people, therefore, he must be gay." Your mind is like a 2-stroke engine.

[chattownmocs]

No ****, I KNEW you would say exactly that.

"He isn't in favor of oppressing gay people, therefore, he must be gay." Your mind is like a 2-stroke engine.

It's been pretty clear that you were gay for a long time. You are a flaming homo to nth degree. queerer than a 2 dollar bill. You are on fire and I wouldn't piss on you to put you out because you'd probably like it too much.

[Tod]

I don't understand the risk of Liberty but not BYU, Notre Dame, Boston College or SMU ... I guess I'm different in believe you should go to school anywhere you please. Different schools allow for diversity so everyone can be happy.

I think that religion played a large role in BYU not being invited to join the PAC-12. There were other reasons, too, I know.

[Apphole]

It's been pretty clear that you were gay for a long time. You are a flaming homo to nth degree. queerer than a 2 dollar bill. You are on fire and I wouldn't piss on you to put you out because you'd probably like it too much.

You drool over BJ Coleman like a 16 year old girl that just got wet for the first time. Of anyone on AGS is a Liberty Flamer, its you. Now, can we get back to talking about Liberty and/or their backwards, fundamentalist ways.

[chattownmocs]

You drool over BJ Coleman like a 16 year old girl that just got wet for the first time. Of anyone on AGS is a Liberty Flamer, its you. Now, can we get back to talking about Liberty and/or their backwards, fundamentalist ways.

Hmm, I would consider having sex with another person of the same gender to be about as "backwards" as it gets. But you want to reward that behavior by destroying the institution of marriage. Awesome logic there.

[nwFL Griz]

I think that religion played a large role in BYU not being invited to join the PAC-12. There were other reasons, too, I know.

I'm not 100% certain, but that has to be THE reason, doesn't it? The whole, won't play on sundays, Cali schools not wanting to be affiliated with a religious intstitution, etc.....

[Tuscon]

Man, this is the discussion that happens when you bring up Liberty. Please don't let them be in my conference....smh

[knucklehead]

But it's not Liberty folks doing the pot stirring. We just want a place to play at the highest level and we will not start or continue to trouble.

[Apphole]

Hmm, I would consider having sex with another person of the same gender to be about as "backwards" as it gets. But you want to reward that behavior by destroying the institution of marriage. Awesome logic there.

Destroying marriage? I'd say half of all straight marriages ending in divorce have done a fair job of that already. I don't have an opinion on gay sex, its not my business and I don't care, but you have to be ignorant or stupid to screw widows and bastard children out of basic human rights all in an effort to oppress people that were born differently. It's really disheartening to know that, in 2012, bigotry is still alive and well.

I'm done. I don't have the time or patience to debate this complex issue with a simpleton like Chattown. You know even less about true freedom than you do about FCS football. Go Vols!

[Tuscon]

But it's not Liberty folks doing the pot stirring. We just want a place to play at the highest level and we will not start or continue to trouble.

But it is the Liberty folks doing the pot stirring. When they publicly take ridiculous stances against the civil rights for a group of people.

[Go...gate]

But it's not Liberty folks doing the pot stirring. We just want a place to play at the highest level and we will not start or continue to trouble.

I agree. These are youngsters just like all those at our schools that want to participate in intercollegiate athletics. Liberty has never shown itself to violate the rules of NCAA competition on or off the field, court, pool etc. Why punish them? I think Miami is an outlaw program, but I don't think it is appropriate to punish the kids on the teams. Let's take it a step further: I HATE what happened at Penn State, and I hate what was apparantly condoned, but I don't think their players should be barred from playing on the same field with everybody else.

[chattownmocs]

Destroying marriage? I'd say half of all straight marriages ending in divorce have done a fair job of that already. I don't have an opinion on gay sex, its not my business and I don't care, but you have to be ignorant or stupid to screw widows and bastard children out of basic human rights all in an effort to oppress people that were born differently. It's really disheartening to know that, in 2012, bigotry is still alive and well.

I'm done. I don't have the time or patience to debate this complex issue with a simpleton like Chattown. You know even less about true freedom than you do about FCS football. Go Vols!

Typical spout out some nonsensical garbage and then hide. Widows and bastard children, widows and bastard children. Not connecting the dots. As far as half of marriage's ending in divorce, what about the other half?


I ask what are these "basic human rights" that Liberty university looks to oppress? Are they seeking a federal ban on homosexuality? Surely marriage is not a "basic human right."

[MplsBison]

I think many of these Mpls posts are simply made to stir up trouble. Have you ever read the story of Brigham Young the person?

I'm not saying Brigham Young was not a murderous crackpot himself, who went out to the Utah desert to start his own church. Not saying he was less worse than Falwell.

But what I am saying is that, like it or not, the Mormon church is an established religious institution in many (all?) states with a sizable membership. Then BYU is an extension of the church.


To me, that's a lot better than some one-off crackpot televangelist who thinks he's above established religion and he needs to start his own indoctrination center to build a Christ army.


I guess it's like saying would you rather be robbed at gun point, but no physical harm or plain mugged with a club, waking up in the hospital? Neither is very good, but in my mind one is clearly better.

[MplsBison]

MPLS, you swung and missed on the first two. Have you ever been to either campus? Do you realize that both heavily support and advocate Catholic philosophy/theology in all their programs? Marist may be "religious affiliated" to use your terminology, but not ND, BC or Georgetown, for that matter.

They are not within the Catholic church. They may consider themselves very highly affiliated with the Vatican, that's fine. But they're not in Rome.

BYU is within the church. Same city (or metro at least) as Mormon HQ.

[bandit]

Destroying marriage? I'd say half of all straight marriages ending in divorce have done a fair job of that already. I don't have an opinion on gay sex, its not my business and I don't care, but you have to be ignorant or stupid to screw widows and bastard children out of basic human rights all in an effort to oppress people that were born differently. It's really disheartening to know that, in 2012, bigotry is still alive and well.

I'm done. I don't have the time or patience to debate this complex issue with a simpleton like Chattown. You know even less about true freedom than you do about FCS football. Go Vols!

xsmileyclapx

[dgtw]

They are not within the Catholic church. They may consider themselves very highly affiliated with the Vatican, that's fine. But they're not in Rome.

BYU is within the church. Same city (or metro at least) as Mormon HQ.

BYU is in Provo. LDS headquarters are in Salt Lake City, which is 43 miles away according to Wikipedia.

[MplsBison]

BYU is in Provo. LDS headquarters are in Salt Lake City, which is 43 miles away according to Wikipedia.

Yep, you completely annihilated my point.

[chattownmocs]

Jerry Falwell was an idiot there is no doubt about that. He believed in segregation back in the day. Of course alot of people did but using the bible to support that view was simply a failure to rightly divide. He was way over the top on homosexuality. They should have rights just like everyone else. Im not sure marriage is a right. But jerry did apologize at least to the gay community late in his life. But jerry and most evangelical christians miss the mark when they not only fail to rightly divide the word of truth. But also when they ignore the teachings of the apostle paul. Paul is the apostle of theht dispensation of grace and he taught that the only difference between a saved and unsaved man is that one believea in the death burial and resurrection as a payment for his sin and the other does not. According to his own bible jerry falwell was no better than the most deviant homosexual that he hated fir much of his life.

[BisonBacker]

WTF?? I look at this thread and expect to see info about the proposed Liberty move and you guys are talking about religion, homosexuality ect. ect. ect???? Mod's move this or lock it as it's gone to the dogs!!

[laxVik]

Typical spout out some nonsensical garbage and then hide. Widows and bastard children, widows and bastard children. Not connecting the dots. As far as half of marriage's ending in divorce, what about the other half?


I ask what are these "basic human rights" that Liberty university looks to oppress? Are they seeking a federal ban on homosexuality? Surely marriage is not a "basic human right."You're right. It's a legal institution that has nothing to do with religion.

[Go...gate]

They are not within the Catholic church. They may consider themselves very highly affiliated with the Vatican, that's fine. But they're not in Rome.

BYU is within the church. Same city (or metro at least) as Mormon HQ.

They are very much within the Catholic Church; indeed, they are run by both the religious orders and are members of the local Catholic Dioceses of Boston (BC) South Bend (ND) and the District of Columbia (GT, Catholic U, College of Notre Dame).

[Go...gate]

As I posted a few times. Dont be surprised if we see VMI headed for the PL very soon. The Big South as a football conference is set to implode in the next year or so.

I think the migration of VMI to the PL for all-sports, like that of Villanova for FB only, is a much greater possibility than anyone could have predicted a couple of months ago.

[chattownmocs]

You're right. It's a legal institution that has nothing to do with religion.

Actually it has everything to do with religion. I take it you have never been to a wedding. That being said the government should not decide who gets married based on religion. Gender on the other hand is a different story.

[laxVik]

Actually it has everything to do with religion. I take it you have never been to a wedding. That being said the government should not decide who gets married based on religion. Gender on the other hand is a different story.**sigh** I'm convinced the worse thing to happen to this county is the way the civil war ended. Should of been a draw. Then all the right wing bible fearing folk could have their Jesus land to themselves. Olympics would of been odd. I could the Northern US boycotting the '68 Olympics due to the Southern US's flag.

[chattownmocs]

**sigh** I'm convinced the worse thing to happen to this county is the way the civil war ended. Should of been a draw. Then all the right wing bible fearing folk could have their Jesus land to themselves. Olympics would of been odd. I could the Northern US boycotting the '68 Olympics due to the Southern US's flag.


No it's very simple. Marriage = 1 man 1 woman. 2 men= not marriage. 2 women= not marriage. 1 man 1 goat= not marriage. It's the simplest of equations.

[TheRevSFA]

No it's very simple. Marriage = 1 man 1 woman. 2 men= not marriage. 2 women= not marriage. 1 man 1 goat= not marriage. It's the simplest of equations.

So two gay/lesbians who are happily in love cannot get married, however, a straight couple who hates eachother can stay married.

Only in Amuuurica

[TheRevSFA]

Actually it has everything to do with religion. I take it you have never been to a wedding. That being said the government should not decide who gets married based on religion. Gender on the other hand is a different story.

Not every wedding ceremony is religious. Go check out a non-denominational ceremony

[chattownmocs]

Not every wedding ceremony is religious. Go check out a non-denominational ceremony

Non-denominational does not mean non religious. It means it has no specific affiliation with a particular branch of christianity.

[TheRevSFA]

Non-denominational does not mean non religious. It means it has no specific affiliation with a particular branch of christianity.

Very few non-demoninational wedding services invoke God. I should know..the "rev" thing isn't just a nickname. I perform them.

The law about marriage in the United States is based upon morality, as opposed to rights. It truly needs to be addressed.

[chattownmocs]

So two gay/lesbians who are happily in love cannot get married, however, a straight couple who hates eachother can stay married.

Only in Amuuurica

Actually not only in America, there are lots of countries that don't recognize gay marriage. But the fact that you would make a statement like "Only in America" as if that could ever be a knock. If something was only happening in America, that probably means it is a great thing. Despite the attempt at europeanization of America, and the major strides gained in the direction, the united states remains the greatest country in the world by a mile. Our people are beginning to see the far left agenda of europeanization of America and they are taking the country back. Gay marriage has been rejected by the citizens of every state that has been allowed to vote on the subject. It is moronic to claim that changing the very definition of a word, idea, or institution is somehow bigotry or oppression.

[Apphole]

**sigh** I'm convinced the worse thing to happen to this county is the way the civil war ended. Should of been a draw. Then all the right wing bible fearing folk could have their Jesus land to themselves. Olympics would of been odd. I could the Northern US boycotting the '68 Olympics due to the Southern US's flag.

Hey now. I'm a proud southerner and a civil war buff, but I'm not some right wing (or left wing for that matter) nut job that cherry picks bible verses to justify their prejudice ways. Being a moderate allows me to make up my own mind about the issues rather than yield to the political binary that enslaves simple autonomatons like chattown.

[chattownmocs]

Hey now. I'm a proud southerner and a civil war buff, but I'm not some right wing (or left wing for that matter) nut job that cherry picks bible verses to justify their prejudice ways. Being a moderate allows me to make up my own mind about the issues rather than yield to the political binary that enslaves simple autonomatons like chattown.

If you think that the bible is in support of homosexuality or homosexual mariage than you are an ignorant fool. Anyone who uses the love of Jesus Christ as an argument for Homosexual marriage than they need to open up a bible and stop cherry picking. That being said that really isn't the standard(and shouldn't be) for what is law in this country. There are alot of things that are sin according to the bible that are perfectly legal and rightfully so in this country. The government is not there to enforce to bible or any other holy book. Liberty university on the other is a private institution that has a right to take whatever stance on the subject is chooses. And to oppose them or attempt to punish them for actually attempting to follow the bible is the definition of bigotry.

[Apphole]

Typical spout out some nonsensical garbage and then hide. Widows and bastard children, widows and bastard children. Not connecting the dots. As far as half of marriage's ending in divorce, what about the other half?


I ask what are these "basic human rights" that Liberty university looks to oppress? Are they seeking a federal ban on homosexuality? Surely marriage is not a "basic human right."

I wasn't hiding, I just know you and I know that no matter how clearly you are proven wrong, you persist. "Widows and bastard children" are two of the groups of people that have been inadvertently screwed by this whole marriage definition thing. I don't feel the need to "connect the dots." If youd on't know the issue, look it up.

You can't even read. The "basic human rights" was referring to the widows and bastard children. Those rights include access to health insurance (before you go off on a socialism rant, yes, children and the single elderly should have health insurance). How could I get any more clear than "to screw widows and bastard children out of basic human rights." You really do just skim people's posts and slap the keyboard haphazardly.


Actually it has everything to do with religion. I take it you have never been to a wedding. That being said the government should not decide who gets married based on religion. Gender on the other hand is a different story.

Is that why the STATE is regulating it? As far as what's going on with amendment one, it is absolutely a legal institution.


No it's very simple. Marriage = 1 man 1 woman. 2 men= not marriage. 2 women= not marriage. 1 man 1 goat= not marriage. It's the simplest of equations.

Who are you to define marriage anyway? There's no way in hell any woman (or man) would ever have you.

[fc97]

2 men and 2 women have the same right to the same definition of marriage as everyone else

not only in america, in most of the world

the states make laws that define marriage, so he has much right to define as anyone, or at least to voice in the definition

[Apphole]

If you think that the bible is in support of homosexuality or homosexual mariage than you are an ignorant fool. Anyone who uses the love of Jesus Christ as an argument for Homosexual marriage than they need to open up a bible and stop cherry picking. That being said that really isn't the standard(and shouldn't be) for what is law in this country. There are alot of things that are sin according to the bible that are perfectly legal and rightfully so in this country. The government is not there to enforce to bible or any other holy book. Liberty university on the other is a private institution that has a right to take whatever stance on the subject is chooses. And to oppose them or attempt to punish them for actually attempting to follow the bible is the definition of bigotry.

I don't care if the bible supports it or condemns it. It should have no baring on legislation of any kind, ever.

As far as liberty goes, sure they have the right to say/support whatever bigoted cause they want. It's just an ill-advised move.

[superman7515]

2 men and 2 women have the same right to the same definition of marriage as everyone else

not only in america, in most of the world

Only 10 out of 196 countries in the world recognize gay marriage.

[chattownmocs]

I don't care if the bible supports it or condemns it. It should have no baring on legislation of any kind, ever.

As far as liberty goes, sure they have the right to say/support whatever bigoted cause they want. It's just an ill-advised move.

You used the term "cherry pick" which gave the impression that you disagree with the their interpretation of the bible's overall stance on the subject. The fact that you or anyone else would have a problem with a private christian university taking a biblical stance on an issue shows that you have an embedded bigotry against the bible and it's followers.

[DFW HOYA]

They are very much within the Catholic Church; indeed, they are run by both the religious orders and are members of the local Catholic Dioceses of Boston (BC) South Bend (ND) and the District of Columbia (GT, Catholic U, College of Notre Dame).

Georgetown is not run by a religious order nor under the administration of an archbishop, but I digress.

As for Liberty, the open question is where they will go. I-A independent? And is all this flurry of being able to jump "up" merely creating a fourth tier to Division I (IA-BCS, IA-Some Bowl Eligibility, IAA-Playoff, IAAA-No Football)?

[fc97]

considering that most laws in the world have basis in some religion defined somewhere in the world, the yes, it does have a basis on where it comes from

people cherry pick what they want to do now and expect the world to conform to them, the world evolves to a point, but the point that its pushed leads to anarchy

people love democracy and representative republic types until the majority don't agree with them

[chattownmocs]

I wasn't hiding, I just know you and I know that no matter how clearly you are proven wrong, you persist. "Widows and bastard children" are two of the groups of people that have been inadvertently screwed by this whole marriage definition thing. I don't feel the need to "connect the dots." If youd on't know the issue, look it up.

You can't even read. The "basic human rights" was referring to the widows and bastard children. Those rights include access to health insurance (before you go off on a socialism rant, yes, children and the single elderly should have health insurance). How could I get any more clear than "to screw widows and bastard children out of basic human rights." You really do just skim people's posts and slap the keyboard haphazardly.



Is that why the STATE is regulating it? As far as what's going on with amendment one, it is absolutely a legal institution.



Who are you to define marriage anyway? There's no way in hell any woman (or man) would ever have you.

So are you saying widows cannot get married? Or that children should be able to get married? Not sure how a single person not having the saem health benefits as 2 married people is them getting screwed. The whole benefits issue is a null point anyway. People in favor of gay marriage would not accept simply having the same benefits they want the same label. They want their union to be given the same label and same legitimacy. Well in this country, it doesn't have the same lable or legitimacy because it isn't the same. I suppose that a person should be able to marry a sibling as well. Why stop there as long as it is 2 consenting adults why shouldn;t anyone be able to get married. Maybe a father and a daughter should be able to get married. Who as a society are we to look down on such things.

As far as the states legislating marriage. The ones that have banned it did it in a legitimate democratic manner by a vote of their citizens. The others that made it legal made it their governmental crusade to right the so-called social injustice. Who in the hell are they to redefine marriage.

[Apphole]

So are you saying widows cannot get married? Or that children should be able to get married?

Are you really that stupid!?! Do I really have to map out this simple sentence a second time!?

Defining marriage the way it has been defined creates loop holes in health insurance agreements and reduces coverage for, and these are only two examples,

1) widows: those whose spouse has died, therefore, they are no longer legally married and are no longer entitled to the same rights

2) bastard children: whose parents aren't married and who, under this new definition, will not have the benefits that children of wedded parents enjoy.

Nothing besides your disturbed, mongaloid brain implied anything about widows or children's right to marry. You are quite possibly the dumbest person with whom I have ever interacted and I am from Indian Trail, NC.

[chattownmocs]

Are you really that stupid!?! Do I really have to map out this simple sentence a second time!?

Defining marriage the way it has been defined creates loop holes in health insurance agreements and reduces coverage for, and these are only two examples,

1) widows: those whose spouse has died, therefore, they are no longer legally married and are no longer entitled to the same rights

2) bastard children: whose parents aren't married and who, under this new definition, will not have the benefits that children of wedded parents enjoy.

Nothing besides your disturbed, mongaloid brain implied anything about widows or children's right to marry. You are quite possibly the dumbest person with whom I have ever encountered and I am from Indian Trail, NC.

The idea that anyone has the "right" to free or discounted healthcare or healthcare insurance, or any other entitlement is absolutely absurd. Only a leftist could possibly believe that this is right. The ridiculous argument that if gay people were somehow entitled to the same benefits as a heterosexual couple that would solve the problem of children and widows is stupidity. You have yet to show how the two are even remotely related, let alone intertwined. How in the world would solving one fix the other, or the refusal to allow gays to marry each other limit the governments ability to solve an issue regarding the healthcare of women or the widowed elderly. This is liberal propaganda at it's most pathetic. The war on the elderly, children and gays are now the same war. Right out of Obama's press release.

[TheRevSFA]

The idea that anyone has the "right" to free or discounted healthcare or healthcare insurance, or any other entitlement is absolutely absurd. Only a leftist could possibly believe that this is right. The ridiculous argument that if gay people were somehow entitled to the same benefits as a heterosexual couple that would solve the problem of children and widows is stupidity. You have yet to show how the two are even remotely related, let alone intertwined. How in the world would solving one fix the other, or the refusal to allow gays to marry each other limit the governments ability to solve an issue regarding the healthcare of women or the widowed elderly. This is liberal propaganda at it's most pathetic. The war on the elderly, children and gays are now the same war. Right out of Obama's press release.

So explain why legal American citizens, even if GLBT, shouldn't have the right to wed. Please leave the Bible out of your reponse, as you cross the line between legality and morality.

[Dane96]

considering that most laws in the world have basis in some religion defined somewhere in the world, the yes, it does have a basis on where it comes from

WHAT?!

Jeesh...must have missed that in law school; I was too busy watching porn on the laptop.

;)

[fc97]

getting married is not a right, not even for men and women, it is a government sanctioned endorsement of a process that can be denied as well as granted, rights are dictated by the constitution of the united states and are further dictated in state constitutions

if it does not fall into those, then it is not a right by definition and only a process related to a law

again, gay people have the same privilege and access to marriage as others, they just do not fall into the parameters of the process and are denied

[Dane96]

The idea that anyone has the "right" to free or discounted healthcare or healthcare insurance, or any other entitlement is absolutely absurd. Only a leftist could possibly believe that this is right. The ridiculous argument that if gay people were somehow entitled to the same benefits as a heterosexual couple that would solve the problem of children and widows is stupidity. You have yet to show how the two are even remotely related, let alone intertwined. How in the world would solving one fix the other, or the refusal to allow gays to marry each other limit the governments ability to solve an issue regarding the healthcare of women or the widowed elderly. This is liberal propaganda at it's most pathetic. The war on the elderly, children and gays are now the same war. Right out of Obama's press release.

I suggest understanding how much money governments and its citizens (taxes) pay for indirect costs associated with health issues before making a statement such as this, and I am talking about indirect non-medical costs.

[Dane96]

getting married is not a right, not even for men and women, it is a government sanctioned endorsement of a process that can be denied as well as granted, rights are dictated by the constitution of the united states and are further dictated in state constitutions

if it does not fall into those, then it is not a right by definition and only a process related to a law

again, gay people have the same privilege and access to marriage as others, they just do not fall into the parameters of the process and are denied

Not so fast. Way too broad description of anything Constitutionally related, and or rights in general. Their are inalienable rights and unalienable rights. Two seperate things.

[chattownmocs]

So explain why legal American citizens, even if GLBT, shouldn't have the right to wed. Please leave the Bible out of your reponse, as you cross the line between legality and morality.

I didnt in the reasoning for why the government should or shouldnt recognizw gay marriage. Nice try though. I have no problem with individual states coming to a majority democratic decision for or against. You on the other hand would like a federal law in favor of gay marriage.

[chattownmocs]

I suggest understanding how much money governments and its citizens (taxes) pay for indirect costs associated with health issues before making a statement such as this, and I am talking about indirect non-medical costs.

I suggeat coming to the understanding that I am in favor of slashing these programs almost to the point of them no longer existinf.

[MplsBison]

They are very much within the Catholic Church; indeed, they are run by both the religious orders and are members of the local Catholic Dioceses of Boston (BC) South Bend (ND) and the District of Columbia (GT, Catholic U, College of Notre Dame).

You are wrong, as DTF said.

Affiliated, but not within. BYU is within.

[hapapp]

States are not free to legislate marriage as they see fit whether by referendum or legislative act.

"Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discrimination. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State." Loving v. Virginia


Obviously this case had to with Virginia's law that forbade interracial marriage. It remains to be seen whether these state laws or constitutional amendments withstand judicial scrutiny.

[chattownmocs]

States are not free to legislate marriage as they see fit whether by referendum or legislative act.

"Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discrimination. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State." Loving v. Virginia


Obviously this case had to with Virginia's law that forbade interracial marriage. It remains to be seen whether these state laws or constitutional amendments withstand judicial scrutiny.

key statement.

[danefan]

Alright guys. Take it to the lounge if you want to discuss the issues in more detail.

This thread alone is evidence why some conferences may shy away from Liberty. Right or wrong. Its the trufe.

[Go...gate]

You are wrong, as DTF said.

Affiliated, but not within. BYU is within.

He spoke only of Georgetown. I stand by my position on the other two (BC and Notre Dame, among others).

[Apphole]

key statement.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/precedent

[chattownmocs]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/precedent

See that case could serve as a precedent for another case regarding interracial marriage. It would not however, have any bearing on a same sex marriage case. You need to study up on legal precedents.

[fc97]

the state laws state that marriage is between a man and a woman, the case in virginia stated that states cannot deny to select groups of men and women that fell into the parameters of the original law. the result was that state laws stand as they were and define the definition of marriage while preventing the state from denying for any reason within the letter of how the law was written.

sorry, that applies to any man vs woman marriage defined within the existing parameters of a stated law

[MplsBison]

He spoke only of Georgetown. I stand by my position on the other two (BC and Notre Dame, among others).

His statements also correctly apply to BC and Notre Dame, along with all other Catholic affiliated universities in the US.

[dgtw]

Very few non-demoninational wedding services invoke God. I should know..the "rev" thing isn't just a nickname. I perform them.

The law about marriage in the United States is based upon morality, as opposed to rights. It truly needs to be addressed.

Have you or would you perform a gay wedding? Or whatever the couple chose to call it, since it would not be valid in Texas?

[TheRevSFA]

Have you or would you perform a gay wedding? Or whatever the couple chose to call it, since it would not be valid in Texas?

They call them "commitment ceremonies" and I absolutely would. Ceremonies are just for show. What matters is signing the license, and even though they couldn't get it in Texas, I'd still perform it.

[NHwildEcat]

Another program for the FBS elite to pound. Why does every Tom, Dick & Harry think they can play FBS football? Such short term thinking...

There is more stability in the EU than there is in college football.

And why does this clown think that FCS isn't D1? Does he think his football team is playing D2 opponents?

[hapapp]

"Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival.

I actually believe that is the key statement. The reason court overturned the Virginia law was because they deemed to be "one of the basic civil rights of man." There are no guarantees that the current Supreme Court would follow Loving but the basis for it is there. I won't pretend to the read the Court's mind but I would advise you to do the same.


As to the issue of Liberty, I think that they can parlay themselves into the realignment game because they have an incredible amount of resources and connections that will aid them in the process. They have an ever increasing following and like Notre Dame will gain a lot of subway/WalMart followers. I would not be surprised to see them enter the FBS ranks before JMU/ASU/Ga Southern do.

[dgtw]

They call them "commitment ceremonies" and I absolutely would. Ceremonies are just for show. What matters is signing the license, and even though they couldn't get it in Texas, I'd still perform it.

What denomination are you?

[kdinva]

.........and this relates to Football how?

[kdinva]

And why does this clown think that FCS isn't D1? Does he think his football team is playing D2 opponents?

ask Michigan or Va. Tech or Minnesota or Dook if FCS teams aren't D-1........

[chattownmocs]

"Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival.

I actually believe that is the key statement. The reason court overturned the Virginia law was because they deemed to be "one of the basic civil rights of man." There are no guarantees that the current Supreme Court would follow Loving but the basis for it is there. I won't pretend to the read the Court's mind but I would advise you to do the same.


As to the issue of Liberty, I think that they can parlay themselves into the realignment game because they have an incredible amount of resources and connections that will aid them in the process. They have an ever increasing following and like Notre Dame will gain a lot of subway/WalMart followers. I would not be surprised to see them enter the FBS ranks before JMU/ASU/Ga Southern do.

One thing is for sure that the virginia case because it will not be used for same sex marriage. I'm not sure how anything that you need another person to do could possibly be considered a basic right. Then again, it was Virginia. Nevertheless the court was clearing saying that it was a man's basic right to marry a woman or vice-versa. Not a goat or a man or a tree or a lamp.

[TheRevSFA]

What denomination are you?

Unity

...was raised Catholic

[MplsBison]

.........and this relates to Football how?

Good point, big game this weekend!

[laxVik]

Non-denominational does not mean non religious. It means it has no specific affiliation with a particular branch of christianity.Seeing how you can wed in a courtroom I fail to see your point.

[Go...gate]

His statements also correctly apply to BC and Notre Dame, along with all other Catholic affiliated universities in the US.

Not quite. From the ND Website:

From its earliest days, Notre Dame’s distinctive mission has set it apart from other institutions of higher education. The difference lies not so much in terms of subject matter and academic disciplines as in the perception of how those disciplines ought to serve God and humanity. At the very heart of Notre Dame’s mission is its profound faith heritage and aspiration to be at the center of Catholic intellectual life—to be a bellwether institution in the pursuit of truth and knowledge, while remaining guided and elevated by the moral imperatives of the Catholic faith.

This dedication is seen in almost every aspect of the Notre Dame experience—from the residential nature of its campus, to the organizations and programs that support and enrich its faith tradition, through academic and community service programs, and through its founding order, the Congregation of Holy Cross, which still plays a vital role in the life of the University today.

A place of teaching and research, of scholarship and publication, of service and community, the University takes seriously our charge as a Catholic institution. Deeply committed to Father Sorin's vision that the University would be "one of the most powerful means of doing good in this country," a living Catholic mission continues to be the foundation of the University today.

Turning to BC's web:

Boston College was founded by the Society of Jesus in 1863 and, with 3 teachers and 22 students, opened its doors on September 5, 1864. Through its first seven decades, it remained a small undergraduate institution, serving the sons of the Irish working class, and teaching theology and philosophy, Greek and Latin classics, and English and modern languages.

Originally located on Harrison Avenue in Boston's South End, the College outgrew its urban setting early in the 20th century and moved to the former Lawrence Farm in then-rural Chestnut Hill, where ground was broken on June 19, 1909 for the construction of a central Recitation Building, later named Gasson Hall in honor of President Thomas I. Gasson, S.J., who led the relocation. The Recitation Building opened in March 1913. The three other buildings that still shape the core of the campus—St. Mary's Hall, Devlin Hall, and Bapst Library—opened in 1917, 1924, and 1928, respectively.


Though incorporated as a university from its beginning, Boston College did not begin to fill out the dimensions of its University charter until the 1920s, with the inauguration of the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, the Law School, and the Evening College, today the James A. Woods, S.J., College of Advancing Studies. The 1930s saw the introduction of the Graduate School of Social Work and the College of Business Administration—today the Wallace E. Carroll School of Management. The School of Nursing—named in honor of William F. Connell in 2003—and the School of Education—today named for Carolyn A. and Peter S. Lynch—followed in 1947 and 1952. The Graduate School of Arts and Sciences first offered doctoral programs in 1952, followed by the graduate schools of Education, Nursing, Management, and Social Work. By 1970 all undergraduate programs had become coeducational, and today women comprise more than half of the University's enrollment.


In 1974, Boston College acquired a 40-acre site, 1.5 miles from the Chestnut Hill Campus, which had been owned by Newton College of the Sacred Heart. The land is the present site of the Boston College Law School and of residence halls housing some 800 freshmen. Thirty years later, the University acquired a 65-acre parcel from the Boston Archdiocese, just across Commonwealth Avenue in Brighton. The Brighton Campus now hosts the School of Theology and Ministry, which was established in 2008, after the re-affiliation of the Weston Jesuit School of Theology with Boston College and its Institute of Religious Education and Pastoral Ministry.In 2005, the Church in the 21st Century Initiative, which was founded in the midst of the sex abuse scandal as a catalyst and resource for engaging critical issues facing the Catholic Church, became a permanent center at Boston College.
In October 2008, the University launched “Light the World: the 150th Anniversary Campaign for Boston College,” setting a goal of $1.5 billion to support a strategic plan that advances academic program development, faculty expansion and research, and endows undergraduate financial aid, student formation programs, capital projects, and efforts to advance Boston College as the world's leading Catholic university.

Not quite Catholic-affiliated; indeed, a participating member of the Boston Archdiocese.

Seton Hall University, though not a football school, has a similar tradition, and an affiliation with the Roman Catholic Church's Newark (NJ) Diocese which has spanned approximately 150 years. I believe Fordham has a similar approach, though I will leave that to Ram alumni to discuss.

Georgetown, like Marist, may have elected to call themselves "affiliated" with the Catholic Church for their own reasons, but I do not believe a great many Catholic Universities in the United States follow a similar approach.

[NHwildEcat]

ask Michigan or Va. Tech or Minnesota or Dook if FCS teams aren't D-1........

I know, I know. But for someone who's program is currently playing at the D1 FCS level, it is just such a stupid remark. Shows the sort of moron the fella is.

[MplsBison]

Not quite. From the ND Website:

From its earliest days, Notre Dame’s distinctive mission has set it apart from other institutions of higher education. The difference lies not so much in terms of subject matter and academic disciplines as in the perception of how those disciplines ought to serve God and humanity. At the very heart of Notre Dame’s mission is its profound faith heritage and aspiration to be at the center of Catholic intellectual life—to be a bellwether institution in the pursuit of truth and knowledge, while remaining guided and elevated by the moral imperatives of the Catholic faith.

This dedication is seen in almost every aspect of the Notre Dame experience—from the residential nature of its campus, to the organizations and programs that support and enrich its faith tradition, through academic and community service programs, and through its founding order, the Congregation of Holy Cross, which still plays a vital role in the life of the University today.

A place of teaching and research, of scholarship and publication, of service and community, the University takes seriously our charge as a Catholic institution. Deeply committed to Father Sorin's vision that the University would be "one of the most powerful means of doing good in this country," a living Catholic mission continues to be the foundation of the University today.

Turning to BC's web:

Boston College was founded by the Society of Jesus in 1863 and, with 3 teachers and 22 students, opened its doors on September 5, 1864. Through its first seven decades, it remained a small undergraduate institution, serving the sons of the Irish working class, and teaching theology and philosophy, Greek and Latin classics, and English and modern languages.

Originally located on Harrison Avenue in Boston's South End, the College outgrew its urban setting early in the 20th century and moved to the former Lawrence Farm in then-rural Chestnut Hill, where ground was broken on June 19, 1909 for the construction of a central Recitation Building, later named Gasson Hall in honor of President Thomas I. Gasson, S.J., who led the relocation. The Recitation Building opened in March 1913. The three other buildings that still shape the core of the campus—St. Mary's Hall, Devlin Hall, and Bapst Library—opened in 1917, 1924, and 1928, respectively.


Though incorporated as a university from its beginning, Boston College did not begin to fill out the dimensions of its University charter until the 1920s, with the inauguration of the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, the Law School, and the Evening College, today the James A. Woods, S.J., College of Advancing Studies. The 1930s saw the introduction of the Graduate School of Social Work and the College of Business Administration—today the Wallace E. Carroll School of Management. The School of Nursing—named in honor of William F. Connell in 2003—and the School of Education—today named for Carolyn A. and Peter S. Lynch—followed in 1947 and 1952. The Graduate School of Arts and Sciences first offered doctoral programs in 1952, followed by the graduate schools of Education, Nursing, Management, and Social Work. By 1970 all undergraduate programs had become coeducational, and today women comprise more than half of the University's enrollment.


In 1974, Boston College acquired a 40-acre site, 1.5 miles from the Chestnut Hill Campus, which had been owned by Newton College of the Sacred Heart. The land is the present site of the Boston College Law School and of residence halls housing some 800 freshmen. Thirty years later, the University acquired a 65-acre parcel from the Boston Archdiocese, just across Commonwealth Avenue in Brighton. The Brighton Campus now hosts the School of Theology and Ministry, which was established in 2008, after the re-affiliation of the Weston Jesuit School of Theology with Boston College and its Institute of Religious Education and Pastoral Ministry.In 2005, the Church in the 21st Century Initiative, which was founded in the midst of the sex abuse scandal as a catalyst and resource for engaging critical issues facing the Catholic Church, became a permanent center at Boston College.
In October 2008, the University launched “Light the World: the 150th Anniversary Campaign for Boston College,” setting a goal of $1.5 billion to support a strategic plan that advances academic program development, faculty expansion and research, and endows undergraduate financial aid, student formation programs, capital projects, and efforts to advance Boston College as the world's leading Catholic university.

Not quite Catholic-affiliated; indeed, a participating member of the Boston Archdiocese.

Seton Hall University, though not a football school, has a similar tradition, and an affiliation with the Roman Catholic Church's Newark (NJ) Diocese which has spanned approximately 150 years. I believe Fordham has a similar approach, though I will leave that to Ram alumni to discuss.

Georgetown, like Marist, may have elected to call themselves "affiliated" with the Catholic Church for their own reasons, but I do not believe a great many Catholic Universities in the United States follow a similar approach.

Thank you for proving my point.

None of these institutions have the same relationship today with the Catholic Church over in Rome (yes I know, Vatican City) that BYU, in Utah, has to the Mormon church, in Utah.


Good research and very interesting info though, thanks!

[TheRevSFA]

Thank you for proving my point.

None of these institutions have the same relationship today with the Catholic Church over in Rome (yes I know, Vatican City) that BYU, in Utah, has to the Mormon church, in Utah.


Good research and very interesting info though, thanks!

If the headquarters of the Catholic Church WAS in the USA, they'd be closely alligned.

However, since the headquarters of LDS IS in the USA, BYU is able to be closer alligned.

[IaaScribe]

Having covered this program for six-plus years now, I can tell you that the current administration has really gotten away from making some of the political statements that Falwell, Sr., used to make. His son, the current chancellor, really does a good job of staying out of the public spotlight and doesn't make blusterous (is that a word?) political statements like his old man did.

There's no doubt that some of the ridiculous, over-the-top things Sr. said will stick with Liberty forever. The problem for Sr. was that he was the public face both of the church and of the university, and those ideologies clashed constantly. Jr. understands the separation of the two and rarely speaks for the church side of things. It didn't help that when Sr. said a lot of his things, the school was truly a podunk little bible school that was limited academically in what it offered. A lot of that has changed in the past five years with the introduction of new programs (law school, medical school in '14, etc.). In 2006, had Liberty thought about moving up, it would have been seen as a total joke. In 2012? The school has enough to offer a potential conference home to merit a serious look, Sr.'s legacy be damned.

When Sr. died, I remember thinking that his death would probably be the best thing that could happen to the school in terms of it moving forward. That sounds crass, I know. You certainly never wish death on anyone. But to move forward, the school had to find a way to distance itself from Falwell the theologian. I think that's exactly what has happened since he passed on.

(And for the record, I'm a Virginia Tech grad, for whatever that's worth.)

[MplsBison]

Having covered this program for six-plus years now, I can tell you that the current administration has really gotten away from making some of the political statements that Falwell, Sr., used to make. His son, the current chancellor, really does a good job of staying out of the public spotlight and doesn't make blusterous (is that a word?) political statements like his old man did.

There's no doubt that some of the ridiculous, over-the-top things Sr. said will stick with Liberty forever. The problem for Sr. was that he was the public face both of the church and of the university, and those ideologies clashed constantly. Jr. understands the separation of the two and rarely speaks for the church side of things. It didn't help that when Sr. said a lot of his things, the school was truly a podunk little bible school that was limited academically in what it offered. A lot of that has changed in the past five years with the introduction of new programs (law school, medical school in '14, etc.). In 2006, had Liberty thought about moving up, it would have been seen as a total joke. In 2012? The school has enough to offer a potential conference home to merit a serious look, Sr.'s legacy be damned.

When Sr. died, I remember thinking that his death would probably be the best thing that could happen to the school in terms of it moving forward. That sounds crass, I know. You certainly never wish death on anyone. But to move forward, the school had to find a way to distance itself from Falwell the theologian. I think that's exactly what has happened since he passed on.

(And for the record, I'm a Virginia Tech grad, for whatever that's worth.)

"Bible college" is a good label for Liberty. That's how I would think of them, regardless of what programs they offered.

I would consider it to be the same as Bethel, here in the cities.

[Libertine]

"Bible college" is a good label for Liberty. That's how I would think of them, regardless of what programs they offered.

I would consider it to be the same as Bethel, here in the cities.

Well, that settles it then. The guy from the cities has spoken.

[knucklehead]

Zing. hahah

[Go...gate]

Thank you for proving my point.

None of these institutions have the same relationship today with the Catholic Church over in Rome (yes I know, Vatican City) that BYU, in Utah, has to the Mormon church, in Utah.


Good research and very interesting info though, thanks!

I guess facts are meaningless to you.

[Bogus Megapardus]

"Bible college" is a good label for Liberty. That's how I would think of them, regardless of what programs they offered.


Courses in biblical study are offered at most private (and may public) colleges in the United States. In addition, there are many excellent, non-sectarian mainstream colleges where biblical study is at the heart of the curriculum - Wheaton (IL), Gordon (MA), Messiah (PA) and Pepperdine (CA) to name a few. Of course, the list of distinguished Catholic colleges and universities is long and self-evident.

I'm not certain if you have some particular objection to rigorous academic examination of the Bible, or if you're just looking for attention.

[MplsBison]

At the risk of incurring the wrath of the moderators, you are one piece of work, sir.

What?

You did a lot of great research, provided the good information, but it did not support your case.

Fact is, no university in the US that has a (strong) affiliation with the Catholic church in Rome has the same level of connection that BYU has to the Mormon church in Utah. That was my point and it's not a hard thing to realize or accept.


You're just being obtuse about one little thing, which by the way is really inconsequential to the overall discussion about Liberty. But that's just the typical AGS way: to pick one little thing off the side of an overall argument and try to use that to disprove the entire argument.

[MplsBison]

Courses in biblical study are offered at most private (and may public) colleges in the United States. In addition, there are many excellent, non-sectarian mainstream colleges where biblical study is at the heart of the curriculum - Wheaton (IL), Gordon (MA), Messiah (PA) and Pepperdine (CA) to name a few. Of course, the list of distinguished Catholic colleges and universities is long and self-evident.

I'm not certain if you have some particular objection to rigorous academic examination of the Bible, or if you're just looking for attention.

I have no objection to devoting a 3 credit, semester long class to its study any more than I object devoting that level of detail to any other important, great work of fiction.

That's very obviously a completely different thing than a theology degree at a seminary/bible college. You knew that, of course. Just being obtuse as usual.

[Bogus Megapardus]

None of these institutions have the same relationship today with the Catholic Church over in Rome.


If I am not mistaken, the only Pontifical university in the United States - that is, established under direct authority of the Pope - is Catholic University in Washington, D.C. Top Catholic scholars from around the world often try to gain admittance at Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome. I believe that was the first Jesuit college and it seems to be a "first among equals" when it comes to universities under direct papal administration.

BYU, of course, was founded by the LDS and remains under its direct authority.

My understanding (and Liberty fans can correct me if I'm wrong) is that Liberty was founded by the Southern Baptist Church but today is quite broadly multi-sectarian. One must submit a written profession of faith to be admitted, but one needn't adhere to a prescribed faith.

[MplsBison]

If I am not mistaken, the only Pontifical university in the United States - that is, established under direct authority of the Pope - is Catholic University in Washington, D.C. Top Catholic scholars from around the world often try to gain admittance at Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome. I believe that was the first Jesuit college and it seems to be a "first among equals" when it comes to universities under direct papal administration.

BYU, of course, was founded by the LDS and remains under its direct authority.

My understanding (and Liberty fans can correct me if I'm wrong) is that Liberty was founded by the Southern Baptist Church but today is quite broadly multi-sectarian. One must submit a written profession of faith to be admitted, but one needn't adhere to a prescribed faith.

I highly doubt that.

My intuition says that if you don't believe that a man named Jesus Christ is actually the son of the creator of our reality and all physical matter and only acceptance of this fact without evidence will allow you ever-lasting life - then basically their response is "get the ____ out".

If that's not a requirement to follow a prescribed faith, then I don't know what is.


I don't really see any significant difference between "denominations". Southern bapitist, assembly of god, pentecostal - whatever. They're all Jesus freaks who think everyone else is going to hell.

[chattownmocs]

I have no objection to devoting a 3 credit, semester long class to its study any more than I object devoting that level of detail to any other important, great work of fiction.

That's very obviously a completely different thing than a theology degree at a seminary/bible college. You knew that, of course. Just being obtuse as usual.

Not very familiar with the bible are you? Do you know that there are 66 books and 40 authors. Whether you believe it is fiction or not, it the most printed, most distributed, most translated, most read book of all time. You couldn't even begin t scratch the surface in 1 3 hour class. You are ignorant on the subject and you are letting your political views cloud your judgement.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I have no objection to devoting a 3 credit, semester long class to its study any more than I object devoting that level of detail to any other important, great work of fiction.

That's very obviously a completely different thing than a theology degree at a seminary/bible college. You knew that, of course. Just being obtuse as usual.

My alma mater, Lafayette College, offers a major in Religion, as it always has. I believe that all Ivy League schools do as well, as do all Catholic universities. You must know something that they don't.

Perhaps I could arrange for you to present a symposium as a guest lecturer at one of these places so you could offer your inspired wisdom and set everyone straight. I'm sure they'd all appreciate your wisdom and come to see the error in their ways.

[chattownmocs]

I highly doubt that.

My intuition says that if you don't believe that a man named Jesus Christ is actually the son of the creator of our reality and all physical matter and only acceptance of this fact without evidence will allow you ever-lasting life - then basically their response is "get the ____ out".

If that's not a requirement to follow a prescribed faith, then I don't know what is.


I don't really see any significant difference between "denominations". Southern bapitist, assembly of god, pentecostal - whatever. They're all Jesus freaks who think everyone else is going to hell.

Dude you don't understand the most basic tenant of true Christianity. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

[MplsBison]

My alma mater, Lafayette College, offers a major in Religion, as it always has. I believe that all Ivy League schools do as well, as do all Catholic universities. You must know something that they don't.

Perhaps I could arrange for you to present a symposium as a guest lecturer at one of these places so you could offer your inspired wisdom and set everyone straight. I'm sure they'd all appreciate your wisdom and come to see the error in their ways.

I was talking about public schools. I don't care if a private school offers a degree in religion, that their business.

[MplsBison]

Dude you don't understand the most basic tenant of true Christianity. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

You're correct, I have no idea what being a "true" Christian means in your head.

I don't care either, because I believe Jesus Christ was just a man who had a ministry and thought very highly of himself, some 2000 years ago.

[chattownmocs]

You're correct, I have no idea what being a "true" Christian means in your head.

I don't care either, because I believe Jesus Christ was just a man who had a ministry and thought very highly of himself.

The fact that you think Jesus Christ being God's son is the key point to any sect of Christianity shows how little you know about any of it. You are completely clueless.

[MplsBison]

The fact that you think Jesus Christ being God's son is the key point to any sect of Christianity shows how little you know about any of it. You are completely clueless.

Who cares. Being a Christian obviously has something to do with Jesus Christ - hence the name!

The guy was nothing special.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The guy was nothing special.


Kinda like you?

[Bogus Megapardus]

I was talking about public schools. I don't care if a private school offers a degree in religion, that their business.


You do know that NDSU offers a minor in Religious Studies, right? Why don't you come back here once you have something concrete to report about your efforts to do away with that.

[chattownmocs]

Who cares. Being a Christian obviously has something to do with Jesus Christ - hence the name!

The guy was nothing special.

Who was he? In my view he was either a liar and a complete fraud or he was God manifest in the flesh as the bible says. But if you have another source please share.

[MplsBison]

Kinda like you?

Right, since I go around telling people that I'm the son of god.

[MplsBison]

Who was he?

Some guy.

[chattownmocs]

Some guy.

Well how did he come to be the central figure in world history?

[TheRevSFA]

Right, since I go around telling people that I'm the son of god.

Well given that you think you know everything about FCS football and teams moving up...I figured this would be the next step

[Bogus Megapardus]

Right, since I go around telling people that I'm the son of god.

You go around assorted fora telling people a great many things on a great many topics, and you both expect and presume that all will have complete faith in the truth of your pronouncements, regardless of their authentication or veracity.

Given that, maybe you should should start your own religion. You could get Tom Cruise to help. L. Ron Hubbard wrote that starting a religion was one sure way that a guy could make a fortune, you know . . . .

[Go...gate]

If I am not mistaken, the only Pontifical university in the United States - that is, established under direct authority of the Pope - is Catholic University in Washington, D.C. Top Catholic scholars from around the world often try to gain admittance at Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome. I believe that was the first Jesuit college and it seems to be a "first among equals" when it comes to universities under direct papal administration.

BYU, of course, was founded by the LDS and remains under its direct authority.

My understanding (and Liberty fans can correct me if I'm wrong) is that Liberty was founded by the Southern Baptist Church but today is quite broadly multi-sectarian. One must submit a written profession of faith to be admitted, but one needn't adhere to a prescribed faith.

Not sure any of us are talking about the same thing. Georgetown and Marist do not do this (according to a reliable source), but I believe nearly every Catholic university is part of a Diocese, which places them in the Roman Catholic heirarchy and subject to Vatican authority. Perhaps, in the views of some, this makes these universities merely institutions "affiliated" with the Catholic Church. I don't believe the Church or the schools see it that way.

[Go...gate]

What?

You did a lot of great research, provided the good information, but it did not support your case.

Fact is, no university in the US that has a (strong) affiliation with the Catholic church in Rome has the same level of connection that BYU has to the Mormon church in Utah. That was my point and it's not a hard thing to realize or accept.

You're just being obtuse about one little thing, which by the way is really inconsequential to the overall discussion about Liberty. But that's just the typical AGS way: to pick one little thing off the side of an overall argument and try to use that to disprove the entire argument.

I removed the statement, which was inappropriate. I sincerely apologize. I do strongly disagree with you, though. However, as I said above, we may be calling the same thing different names.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Not sure any of us are talking about the same thing. Georgetown and Marist do not do this (according to a reliable source), but I believe nearly every Catholic university is part of a Diocese, which places them in the Roman Catholic hierarchy and subject to Vatican authority. Perhaps, in the views of some, this makes these universities merely institutions "affiliated" with the Catholic Church. I don't believe the Church or the schools see it that way.

I think the point was direct administration versus doctrinal oversight. I don't really know about the Diocese question, other than each school (obviously) being physically located withing the geographic boundaries of a prescribed Diocese.

My understanding is that Marist College severed its "formal" Catholic ties within the past decade. Some members of the Marist Brothers order remain resident on campus in Poughkeepsie. The Marist situation begs the question of the meaning and content of "formal" Catholic ties, I imagine.

All Catholic universities are governed by certain doctrinal guidelines, but there seems to be a very wide scope amongst them in terms of the breadth and liberality of curriculum, and in student diversity. I am aware that there are Jewish and Muslim students at Holy Cross and at Georgetown, for example. I suspect the same is true for Fordham (though I don't know for sure).

[DFW HOYA]

You did a lot of great research, provided the good information, but it did not support your case. Fact is, no university in the US that has a (strong) affiliation with the Catholic church in Rome has the same level of connection that BYU has to the Mormon church in Utah.

http://www.cua.edu/about-cua/mission-statement.cfm

[dbackjon]

http://www.cua.edu/about-cua/mission-statement.cfm


One HUGE difference - the Pope doesn't have to sign off on any Catholic schools athletic moves (conferences, etc). The President of the LDS church approves all athletic moves for BYU.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The President of the LDS church approves all athletic moves for BYU.

Now I have a picture in my mind of Thomas Monson on the sidelines, wearing a headset, calling a flanker screen.

[MplsBison]

You go around assorted fora telling people a great many things on a great many topics, and you both expect and presume that all will have complete faith in the truth of your pronouncements, regardless of their authentication or veracity.

Given that, maybe you should should start your own religion. You could get Tom Cruise to help. L. Ron Hubbard wrote that starting a religion was one sure way that a guy could make a fortune, you know . . . .

Not at all. I neither assume not expect anyone to believe a single thing I say. That's part of the entertainment but also the educational aspect of it for me. I make some statement without doing any research but just relying on my general knowledge and intuition and a lot of times it turns out to be some degree of incorrect with someone else posting the correct info. I'm the one who says something or brings up a subject that a lot of people may think but don't want to bring up because they don't know anything about it. So I just make a statement and provoke the correct answer.

I don't care if I'm wrong all the time or have that reputation. It's just a message board.

[MplsBison]

One HUGE difference - the Pope doesn't have to sign off on any Catholic schools athletic moves (conferences, etc). The President of the LDS church approves all athletic moves for BYU.

Yes, thank you.

And no doubt Jerry is up in heaven directing traffic for Liberty, with Jesus bringing him plenty of sandwiches upon request.

[Apphole]

http://troll.me/images/the-chuck-norris/im-chuck-norris-and-this-thread-suck.jpg

[UAalum72]

My understanding is that Marist College severed its "formal" Catholic ties within the past decade. Some members of the Marist Brothers order remain resident on campus in Poughkeepsie. The Marist situation begs the question of the meaning and content of "formal" Catholic ties, I imagine.


Actually ownership of Marist College was transferred in 1969 to the Marist College Educational Corporation with an independent, predominantly lay board of trustees.

[MplsBison]

Well how did he come to be the central figure in world history?

Heck if I know.

[Go...gate]

One HUGE difference - the Pope doesn't have to sign off on any Catholic schools athletic moves (conferences, etc). The President of the LDS church approves all athletic moves for BYU.

My God, can you imagine? "The College of Cardinals today failed to reach a consensus on the proposed move of Holy Cross to the Big East Conference. No white puffs of smoke were seen."

[Go...gate]

Not at all. I neither assume not expect anyone to believe a single thing I say. That's part of the entertainment but also the educational aspect of it for me. I make some statement without doing any research but just relying on my general knowledge and intuition and a lot of times it turns out to be some degree of incorrect with someone else posting the correct info. I'm the one who says something or brings up a subject that a lot of people may think but don't want to bring up because they don't know anything about it. So I just make a statement and provoke the correct answer.

I don't care if I'm wrong all the time or have that reputation. It's just a message board.

Fair enough.

[dgtw]

I have no connections to Liberty and really don't care if they go to the FBS. My life will not be changed one iota either way. In situations where the issue does not affect me personally, I root for the outcome that will piss off the most people. I like seeing people pissed off over something that isn't that important.

Therefore, I am 100% behind Liberty's bid to join the Football Bowl Subdivision.

[Sader87]

I think the point was direct administration versus doctrinal oversight. I don't really know about the Diocese question, other than each school (obviously) being physically located withing the geographic boundaries of a prescribed Diocese.

My understanding is that Marist College severed its "formal" Catholic ties within the past decade. Some members of the Marist Brothers order remain resident on campus in Poughkeepsie. The Marist situation begs the question of the meaning and content of "formal" Catholic ties, I imagine.

All Catholic universities are governed by certain doctrinal guidelines, but there seems to be a very wide scope amongst them in terms of the breadth and liberality of curriculum, and in student diversity. I am aware that there are Jewish and Muslim students at Holy Cross and at Georgetown, for example. I suspect the same is true for Fordham (though I don't know for sure).

I'll go one better Bogie....we had a Jewish starting QB (Neil Solomon) in 1980....we're still working on a lockdown Muslim CB.

[jaghatai]

Regardless of it's socio-politcial ramifications, this move makes sense.

Liberty football averaged over 16k per home game last season. They've finished in the top 25 (give or take, depending on the poll) for the past 4 seasons, and have gone 47-20 since 2006. Are those numbers impressive? Kinda. Is it good enough to at least warrant looks from the FBS? Absolutely.

The other thing to consider is their specific circumstances. The state of affairs in the Big South is not awesome. Stony Brook, Coastal, and VMI looking to jump ship sooner rather than later. Also, Liberty is going into a bit of a rebuilding phase, after losing a group of "All-Americans" at QB, WR, K, and DT (the DT & QB were preseason...), and a bunch of starters. They won't be a laughing-stock. But they won't be the preseason #1 either.

Granted, the move is a gamble. Going to the FBS always is, regardless of who you are. They move up, taking their lumps while rebuilding (were going to take them anyway), try to establish themselves as a legit FBS school, and hope to parlay it into something great. If it fails, it's no worse than if they stuck around in the Big South, with a rotating membership of teams using the conference as a stepping stone.

Which conference will take them? The WAC and Sun Belt have absolutely nothing to lose by bringing them in. Worst case, they're still a mess. Best case, their still Div I. CUSA is having a ton of financial issues, and lets face it, any distraction from talks about your conference folding may be very welcome. The MAC needs a 14th, and UMass could offer some significant aid to a Liberty bid just to save their own skin. It would be a marriage of convenience, but it gets the foot in the door and then after two years, they could go indy. At the very least, these are possibilities.

In any event, I am enjoying the thought of Thomas Monson on the sidelines yelling at his players to run a "Joseph Smith", down 5 with 7 seconds to play...

[Bogus Megapardus]

we're still working on a lockdown Muslim CB.

It might be tough for him to get past the whole "Crusader" thing, I suppose.

[Sader87]

It might be tough for him to get past the whole "Crusader" thing, I suppose.

Admittedly, our mascot hasn't helped much when recruiting the madrassas for said CB....

[knucklehead]

Liberty to the Sunbelt??? http://twentyfoursports.blogspot.com/2012/10/conference-chaos-part-ii.html#!/2012/10/conference-chaos-part-ii.html


...13 isn't a great number, so the Sun Belt could possibly go to the Big South and try and lure Liberty, a school that geographically fits and has an enrollment of 12,000+, to join the conference. Considering that Liberty has been a pretty good football school as of late and could boost their profits at the FBS level, I don't see why not.

[danefan]

Sun Belt is probably Liberty's only option in the near future.

[Tuscon]

The math is wrong. Take out UNT and FIU and add Georgia State and Texas State and you have 10 football members.... not 13.... plus UALR and UTA for 12 basketball schools.

[TheEagleWay]

I doubt it. Might be to political of a institution to take.

Go to CSNBBS - Sun Belt and see their take on it.

[knucklehead]

OH, I've seen there comments and been the victim of such. It's OK. I'm just dishing the info.

[Libertine]

The math is wrong.

Among other things. It's San Diego State that's moving to the Big East with Boise, not San Jose State. I think LFN has better wild-guessing skills.

[knucklehead]

Yea, It seems after checking a little further, this is WAY off.