Richmond Burning Final Bridges with CAA?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2012/05/richmond-burning-final-bridges-with-caa.html

How else can you interpret AD Jim Miller's comments yesterday on sports radio?

[DFW HOYA]

"After all, the Patriot League's "core five" are not going anywhere. Fordham is also not going anywhere, and is already a member of the Atlantic 10 with Richmond."

(As for the seventh school, well, that's for Media Day discussion.)

Better question: does the PL really want to expand (and all that entails) or just to backfill?

[bluehenbillk]

Hmmmm...with the shape that the CAA could be in soon I don't think they're in any position to be contemplating kicking teams out as you surmise in your blog. That would just further to blowing up the league.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

This is wishful thinking from a Patriot League fan.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This is wishful thinking from a Patriot League fan.

If only your ADs comments can be explained away so conveniently.

[aceinthehole]

If only your ADs comments can be explained away so conveniently.

Why does the AD's comments need to be "explained away?"

He also said:


... first of all I don’t have any inside knowledge that’s it’s going to happen or not going to happen, I know there’s a lot of talk about it.

Do I think they’ll do it? I really honestly don’t know, I imagine the decisions are being made now, they’ve collected a lot of information.

I haven’t heard that from any ODU folks, but that’s what I understand is right around the corner

Why must there be some deeper meaning?

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

If only your ADs comments can be explained away so conveniently.


The writer should listen to the entire interview. It is available at espn950am.com audio vault.

Jim states numerous times during the interview that Richmond wants to compete in all sports at the highest level possible. The highest level possible for Richmond football is the CAA as it is currently constructed. Not the Patriot League.

Tell the writer that the interview is only 39 minutes long. Using the VCU fan blog - with several mis-spellings-was a good shortcut, but something I surely figured would be below a Patriot League writer.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

"I haven’t heard that from any ODU folks, but that’s what I understand is right around the corner"

I see you're unable to see this statement as a firebomb. And I also see you're unable to see how self-serving this is, as Richmond is a member of the Atlantic 10.

At absolute best, he's commenting on speculation - which is bad enough as an AD in both of the conferences involved.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The writer ahould listen to the entire interview. It is available at espn950am.com audio vault.

Jim states numerous times during the interview that Richmond wants to compete in all sports at the highest level possible. The highest level possible for Richmond football is the CAA as it is currently constructed. Not the Patriot League.

Tell the writer that the interview is only 39 minutes long. Using the VCU fan blog - with several mis-spellings-was a good shortcut, but something I surely figured would be below a Patriot League writer.

Interesting, as the CAA as it is currently constructed could fall apart if what your AD says is "right around the corner" comes to pass.

[Skjellyfetti]

Don't you criticize others for these speculative blog posts citing message board rumors and the like? xeyebrowx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Don't you criticize others for these speculative blog posts citing message board rumors and the like? xeyebrowx

You mean, taking Richmond's athletic director's public comments on the matter?

[Skjellyfetti]

You mean, taking Richmond's athletic director's public comments on the matter?

Oh. That's all the blog was about? I must have fallen asleep while reading the second half and dreamed up all of the speculation being cast about after the asterisks. xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Oh. That's all the blog was about? I must have fallen asleep while reading the second half and dreamed up all of the speculation being cast about after the asterisks. xlolx

Oh - you mean the part where I said my opinion, and clearly stated it as such?

[aust42]

I'm confused. What does any of what's going on with basketball schools ODU, VCU & George Mason have to do with Richmond being a football only member in the CAA? Have I missed something about Richmond being an unahappy member of the CAA? If ODU, VCU & George Mason leave the CAA, we'll just be another crappy Mid-Major basketball conference but the football conference will still be one of the strongest in the country. Why would Richmond want to leave the CAA?

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Why would Richmond want to leave the CAA?

There is only one rational reason: The writer wants us to.

[MplsBison]

I'm confused. What does any of what's going on with basketball schools ODU, VCU & George Mason have to do with Richmond being a football only member in the CAA? Have I missed something about Richmond being an unahappy member of the CAA? If ODU, VCU & George Mason leave the CAA, we'll just be another crappy Mid-Major basketball conference but the football conference will still be one of the strongest in the country. Why would Richmond want to leave the CAA?

I doubt anyone thinks they want to leave. It's possible that some CAA schools could be mad at Richmond for "egging on" other CAA schools to leave the conference. If and when GMU, VCU and ODU leave the CAA, it will an interesting three pods of four schools each that are left in the conference.

Pod 1: all sports - Delaware, Towson, James Madison, William & Mary
Pod 2: football affiliates - New Hampshire, Maine, Villanova, Richmond
Pod 3: non-football - Northeastern, Hofstra, Drexel, UNC-Wilmington

Seems balanced, in a sense. Would schools from one pod work with another to evict a school from the third pod? Probably not.

[Skjellyfetti]

The writer wants us to.

There is no speculation, though. He is simply reporting UR's AD's comments. xrotatehx

[bostonspider]

You realize that only the CAA Football conference can kick out UR, which schools like Hofstra northeastern and UNCW have nothing to do with. Why would UNH, Maine and Villanova want to remove UR from the conference?

[asumike83]

And I also see you're unable to see how self-serving this is, as Richmond is a member of the Atlantic 10.

Would it not also be considered self-serving as a Lehigh/Patriot League fan to take his commonly shared opinion that the three schools are leaving, combine them with message board rumors about Appalachian leaving the SoCon and state that the stability of the Patriot League makes it the best destination for Richmond?

Honestly, even if Appalachian leaves, the SoCon would be a better fit in my opinion. There are some very strong academic schools in each conference, both are one-bid leagues in basketball and the SoCon is stronger in football and baseball. I really do not see UR leaving anyways unless CAA football totally implodes, which seems unlikely.

[Bogus Megapardus]

It seems to me that the Richmond AD simply was being realistic about what already has been widely reported, rather than being unnecessarily elusive. Nothing in his comments encouraged anyone to abandon CAA football, least of all Richmond. Wearing his A-10 hat, the AD merely welcomed schools already interested in the A-10 for sports other than football.

I don't think CAA football is in any danger of dissolution. The only interesting thing (to me, at least) is whether CAA football looks north or south to replace teams that move to FBS. That decision could affect Maine's and UNH's view of the world, but it shouldn't affect Richmond in any way.

[DFW HOYA]

A seven team Patriot League may or may not be stable. If the CAA looked to add one or two from the PL, this conversation goes in a completely different direction.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Nothing in his comments encouraged anyone to abandon CAA football..

"I haven’t heard that from any ODU folks, but that’s what I understand is right around the corner." (concerning moving to CUSA)

Care to revise that?

[Sader87]

Villanova is the CAA school that will probably jump to the PL in the not too distant future not Richmond.

[Bogus Megapardus]

"I haven’t heard that from any ODU folks, but that’s what I understand is right around the corner." (concerning moving to CUSA)

Care to revise that?

I think he's just confirming something that already is widely reported. Why do a porcupine dance or offer an uninformed denial?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think he's just confirming something that already is widely reported. Why do a porcupine dance or offer an uninformed denial?

From you or me, yes. From the AD of a school that stands to benefit from schools moving, that's a whole other matter entirely.

[Dane96]

"I haven’t heard that from any ODU folks, but that’s what I understand is right around the corner." (concerning moving to CUSA)

Care to revise that?

If you say it enough times, people will listen.

[spartanhead]

I believe VU will move over to PL and ODU heads to CUSA. Talked with several alumni and they think its a done deal if they can work out being able to play in playoffs this year. They feel they can win the CAA and play for a national title in 2012.

[MplsBison]

I believe VU will move over to PL and ODU heads to CUSA. Talked with several alumni and they think its a done deal if they can work out being able to play in playoffs this year. They feel they can win the CAA and play for a national title in 2012.

ODU should be allowed to win the CAA title and get the auto-bid in 2012 and then move to the CUSA in 2013.

That's fair.


No school from the CAA is just going to lay down and accept the PL's AI as is. Only way it works is if PL agrees to exempt VU from the AI. That's a fair deal, IMO. VU would not be enhancing the academic brand of the Patriot League anyway and it's just for I-AA football, not all sports.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The Patriot League won't create "exceptions" to the academic index, nor should it. That's as true for a football-only member as it is for an all-sports member - probably more so. Neither Richmond, W&M nor Villanova are joining the PL any time soon, as much as PL fans would welcome them. Five to seven years from now, after the PL has its first full scholarship teams, and if PL teams prove to be successful and competitive, one or more schools might petition to join the PL. Not becasue they "have" to - but becasue they "want" to. The PL isn't for everyone (and it certainly isn't for MplsBison) but I'm pretty sure that that there's a school or two that will see a benefit to participating in the PL somewhere down the road. No one's necessarily in any kind of rush.

[Sader87]

I see Villanova coming in a lot sooner than you do Bogie....and they really wouldn't have an issue with the AI imo. Would they not be able to recruit a few players they have over the years? Probably, but not a significant amount...historically they've recruited many of the same types of kids HC, Fordham and GTown have for football.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I see Villanova coming in a lot sooner than you do Bogie....and they really wouldn't have an issue with the AI imo. Would they not be able to recruit a few players they have over the years? Probably, but not a significant amount...historically they've recruited many of the same types of kids HC, Fordham and GTown have for football.

If you're right, and if Georgetown ramps up the way it could, the Holy Cross/Villanova/Georgetown rivalries would be intense, that's for sure. Maybe Villanova could even upgrade from Augustinian to Jesuit (provided the exit fee isn't too steep). Throw in Fordham, and you'd have a wine-consecrating Jesuit Division and a wine-sipping Heathen Division. Winner buys indulgences for the house.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Steven Goff @GMUWashPost


George Mason will remain in the CAA, AD Tom O'Connor tells me. Had talks with Atlantic 10, did due diligence, decided to stay #masonmbb

Uh-oh, Mr. Miller.

[DFW HOYA]

If you're right, and if Georgetown ramps up the way it could, the Holy Cross/Villanova/Georgetown rivalries would be intense, that's for sure.

"Could"? Lafayette "could" join Conference USA, too. Sixty scholarships and a 15,000 seat stadium isn't likely to happen for Georgetown. People in DC understand this, even if some in Center Valley don't.

1. Andy Talley has never advocated close ties with the PL. While he's not pushing for I-A, a move down to the PL would not be a positive one for his legacy.

2. There is a small segment in the PL that views Georgetown the way it did with Towson--part of the family, but not "in" the family. Adding a more proximate school to Center Valley may be seen as some as an entre to trade the Hoyas for the Wildcats.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

With word that George Mason is staying in the CAA, the thought that Nova will move to the PL is, IMO, moot, since it seems unlikely to me that CAA football will break apart, and Villanova will not leave the CAA as long as Delaware is there. Richmond, however, is a very different animal.

[spartanhead]

With word that George Mason is staying in the CAA, the thought that Nova will move to the PL is, IMO, moot, since it seems unlikely to me that CAA football will break apart, and Villanova will not leave the CAA as long as Delaware is there. Richmond, however, is a very different animal.
Good point!

[DFW HOYA]

An honest question--what exactly does Richmond gain by being in the PL that they could not get in the CAA or even SoCon?

[bostonspider]

With word that George Mason is staying in the CAA, the thought that Nova will move to the PL is, IMO, moot, since it seems unlikely to me that CAA football will break apart, and Villanova will not leave the CAA as long as Delaware is there. Richmond, however, is a very different animal.

How is UR a different animal? Richmond's stated goal is to be in the best conference they can be for their revenue sports. For basketball that is the A10, and for FCS football that is the CAA. We are a founding member of the CAA Football's version of this conference, and have done nothing that could compromise that. If the conference fell apart then we would land someplace nice, but for now that is not in the cards. We will happily stay in the A10 (GMU and/or VCU included or not) and also stay in the football conference we joined in 1987 (Yankee/A10/CAA)

[Tribe4SF]

With word that George Mason is staying in the CAA, the thought that Nova will move to the PL is, IMO, moot, since it seems unlikely to me that CAA football will break apart, and Villanova will not leave the CAA as long as Delaware is there. Richmond, however, is a very different animal.

Different how? Why would Richmond leave CAA football?

[aust42]

With word that George Mason is staying in the CAA, the thought that Nova will move to the PL is, IMO, moot, since it seems unlikely to me that CAA football will break apart, and Villanova will not leave the CAA as long as Delaware is there. Richmond, however, is a very different animal.

What is this talk of Nova going to the Patriot League and Richmond leaving the CAA? I have not read anything to suggest they are considering leaving. Have I missed something?

[Bogus Megapardus]

What is this talk of Nova going to the Patriot League and Richmond leaving the CAA? I have not read anything to suggest they are considering leaving. Have I missed something?

No, you haven't. None of it is happening and no one even is hinting at it.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Steven Goff @GMUWashPost



Uh-oh, Mr. Miller.

I think you should enlighten us of the relevance here in another really well written article.

[MplsBison]

I see Villanova coming in a lot sooner than you do Bogie....and they really wouldn't have an issue with the AI imo. Would they not be able to recruit a few players they have over the years? Probably, but not a significant amount...historically they've recruited many of the same types of kids HC, Fordham and GTown have for football.

That's very obviously a dishonest statement. Villanova, the 2009 national champion, was recruiting the same kids as Georgetown? Why would you even say that?

[Pard4Life]

The CAA would be reduced to an eight team league once GMU, ODU, and VCU are gone:

Drexel
Delaware
Northeastern
James Madison
William and Mary
Towson
UNC-W
Hofstra

Severally diminished in strength, but certainly workable. The CAA would not kick-out Richmond because they would be hurting their own reason for existence. CAA football, as it stands with current losses, including ODU, would be:

Delaware
JMU
Maine
UNH
Richmond
Towson
William and Mary
Villanova

Guess what, the rivalry with W&M is imperiled and would drop to seven teams. The league's prestige and power status would diminish, and other members such as W&M would question their CAA participation with a lost rival. Richmond's AD knows he can kick around the CAA because they have no leverage whatsover. If Villanova or JMU decide to go to FBS, they need Richmond even more!

[ur2k]

You are right, Jim Miller holds all of the cards in what ODU decides to do as far as the future of their school's athletic program. He is a ODU alum after all.

[Go...gate]

That's very obviously a dishonest statement. Villanova, the 2009 national champion, was recruiting the same kids as Georgetown? Why would you even say that?

Why would he NOT say it? It is far from unprecedented.

Colgate, the 2003 National Runner-Up, was recruiting many of the same kids as Georgetown, which happened to be in Colgate's conference. Villanova is a school with very good academics, so why would they not recruit against Georgetown?

[whitey]

Not that it matters for the football side of the equation but George Mason isn't going anywhere. At least not this year.

[Libertine]

I can't believe there was a time when I took Burton articles seriously. Everything from the article's title to the speculation within is designed to do nothing more than to create message board fodder. This is Bleacher Report-level stuff.

[MplsBison]

Why would he NOT say it? It is far from unprecedented.

Colgate, the 2003 National Runner-Up, was recruiting many of the same kids as Georgetown, which happened to be in Colgate's conference. Villanova is a school with very good academics, so why would they not recruit against Georgetown?

Nonsense.

Georgetown is not recruiting the same kids as Villanova. They'd never land any of them.


"Well Johnny...you can either go to Villanova, receive a full merit scholarship and play for the 2009 national champions in the 2nd most competitive conference in FCS football.....or you can come here to Georgetown...and maybe win the lottery for student tickets to basketball games!"

I guess they're recruiting the same kids as Stanford too?

[Pard4Life]

LFN loves the hype of a CAA dissolution and new PL members because his Lehigh team will finally be viewed as a power team alongside of Richmond and Nova etc. on an annual basis since they would share the same league. He knows that his AD Sterret would do everything possible to get the right, ie barely academically eligible kids to compete for Lehigh by subverting the league AI, which they have been doing all along. By having the lowest graduation rate by far in the PL, Lehigh would be further encouraged to get anybody with new league members. Why do you think he wants UNH and Maine so badly?

[DFW HOYA]

"Well Johnny...you can either go to Villanova, receive a full merit scholarship and play for the 2009 national champions in the 2nd most competitive conference in FCS football.....or you can come here to Georgetown...and maybe win the lottery for student tickets to basketball games!"

If Mpls was a Villanova recruiter, he'd say: "Georgetown was 8-3 last year? As I see it, it never happened."

[MplsBison]

If Mpls was a Villanova recruiter, he'd say: "Georgetown was 8-3 last year? As I see it, it never happened."

8 wins over what?

Not CAA teams.