SoCon faces membership issues...

[ButlerGSU]

ASHEVILLE — Mammoth college conferences with supersize names aren’t the only ones dealing with membership uncertainty these days.

Smaller Football Championship Subdivision leagues such as the Southern Conference are grappling with how best to handle the slippery landscape of modern college athletics. SoCon commissioner John Iamarino said last week he expects membership concerns to be a major topic when the league holds its spring meetings later this month in Asheville.

Long considered one of the FCS’ strongest conferences, the SoCon may soon lose two of its most successful football-playing schools. Georgia Southern and Appalachian State, which have won nine of the league’s 12 all-time national football titles, have indicated they’re ready to pursue membership in the Football Bowl Subdivision....


http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20120509/SPORTS/305090025/SoCon-faces-membership-issues?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFrontpage%7 Cs

[DFW HOYA]

The SoCon will adapt and endure. Look at all the schools they've lost over the way:

Alabama, Auburn, Clemson, Davidson, Duke, East Carolina, East Tennessee, Florida, George Washington, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Louisiana State, Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi, Mississippi State, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Richmond, Sewanee, South Carolina, Tennessee, Tulane, Vanderbilt, Virginia, VMI, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, Washington & Lee, West Virginia, and William & Mary.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

“Our objective hasn’t changed; we’d like to find an FBS opportunity,” said Cobb, who indicated he’s also had phone calls related to the Sun Belt Conference’s future plans, as well as discussions about the possiblity of a start-up league in the FBS.

xeyebrowx

[AppMan]

ASHEVILLE — Mammoth college conferences with supersize names aren’t the only ones dealing with membership uncertainty these days.

Smaller Football Championship Subdivision leagues such as the Southern Conference are grappling with how best to handle the slippery landscape of modern college athletics. SoCon commissioner John Iamarino said last week he expects membership concerns to be a major topic when the league holds its spring meetings later this month in Asheville.

Long considered one of the FCS’ strongest conferences, the SoCon may soon lose two of its most successful football-playing schools. Georgia Southern and Appalachian State, which have won nine of the league’s 12 all-time national football titles, have indicated they’re ready to pursue membership in the Football Bowl Subdivision....


http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20120509/SPORTS/305090025/SoCon-faces-membership-issues?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFrontpage%7 Cs

I honestly think most SoCon schools are salivating at the thought of ASU & GSU leaving.

[PaladinFan]

I honestly think most SoCon schools are salivating at the thought of ASU & GSU leaving.

The conference will get along fine without them, just like it got along fine without other schools that left.

I anticipate that the conference will have very little trouble filling those two spots, and even expanding, should they choose.

[Apphole]

The conference will get along fine without them, just like it got along fine without other schools that left.

I anticipate that the conference will have very little trouble filling those two spots, and even expanding, should they choose.

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s320x320/540176_10150980336933465_129446698464_12127266_191 4069395_n.jpg

[blueballs]

No doubt the conference would survive w/o them but it would be a huge blow to it from a football standpoint. Those two programs are in the top 5 overall in FCS. You don't replace that kind of success, not to mention the attendance at those two programs, overnight or very easily.

[citdog]

No doubt the conference would survive w/o them but it would be a huge blow to it from a football standpoint. Those two programs are in the top 5 overall in FCS. You don't replace that kind of success, not to mention the attendance at those two programs, overnight or very easily.


as I have said all along. we will thrive after the "errant sisters go in peace".

[Saint3333]

If it occurs it will be much like trading Marshall for Wofford, with the exception that no ones fans were obnoxious as Marsall's - not even GSU's ;-).

[Eaglesrus]

If it occurs it will be much like trading Marshall for Wofford, with the exception that no ones fans were obnoxious as Marsall's - not even GSU's ;-).

Aha! The infamous pot!!xnodx

[The Cats]

If it occurs it will be much like trading Marshall for Wofford, with the exception that no ones fans were obnoxious as Marsall's - not even GSU's ;-).

I think you could find more than a few in the SoCon that will disagree with that statement (they say that smokers can't smell that stale cigarette odor in their car either, so obviously you don't know how obnoxious ASU fans have become).

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Aha! The infamous pot!!xnodx

When I read that I did it in this voice. I suggest the rest of you try it.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0186/7324/princess-bride_crop_340x234.jpg

[citdog]

When I read that I did it in this voice. I suggest the rest of you try it.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0186/7324/princess-bride_crop_340x234.jpg




http://www.luminomagazine.com/2004.10/spotlight/nerds/images/lamar/lamar2.jpg

[SpiritCymbal]

The SoCon will most definitely survive after ASU and GSU leave. The conference has been shifting itself towards being a small and/or private member conference since the late 90's. Every school that has been added since Marshall left fits this mold. The SoCon made it's direction very clear when it chose Samford over CCU, etc...

The CAA called an emergency meeting to try and up the exit fee when the rumors about Ga State leaving came to the forefront. The SoCon has barely indicated that it's noticed the same rumors about ASU/GSU moving up. The difference? The CAA wanted/fought to keep GaState. The SoCon is ok with the exit of GSU/ASU so it can replace them with small/private members.

I think all would agree that neither side is going to miss the other.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The SoCon will most definitely survive after ASU and GSU leave. The conference has been shifting itself towards being a small and/or private member conference since the late 90's. Every school that has been added since Marshall left fits this mold. The SoCon made it's direction very clear when it chose Samford over CCU, etc...

The CAA called an emergency meeting to try and up the exit fee when the rumors about Ga State leaving came to the forefront. The SoCon has barely indicated that it's noticed the same rumors about ASU/GSU moving up. The difference? The CAA wanted/fought to keep GaState. The SoCon is ok with the exit of GSU/ASU so it can replace them with small/private members.

I think all would agree that neither side is going to miss the other.

I thought the SoCon had already upped the exit fee last summer so not really a need to go back and redo it if it's already done.

[seantaylor]

If surviving is being one of the worst football conferences in FCS, then yeah

[citdog]

If surviving is being one of the worst football conferences in FCS, then yeah


says a vinegar based vaginal cleansing product who wants to join the worst conference in the fbs.

[OL FU]

The conference will survive but the two schools will be tough to replace and even with all the smack will definitely be missed.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Presbyterian, Gardner-Webb, and Mercer would be my guesses. I think Liberty (without FBS invite), CCU, and Stony Brook may end up in the CAA. GSU and App leaving spells more trouble for the Big South than the SoCon.

[fc97]

the socon doesnt add schools on its own. samford was a unanimous pick by the presidents, coastal was not and that wasnt on a public vs private split

sometimes i think georgia southern and appalachian fans just sit back and keep the blinders on to the truth so they can justify anything that comes out of their mouths

[PaladinFan]

Presbyterian, Gardner-Webb, and Mercer would be my guesses. I think Liberty (without FBS invite), CCU, and Stony Brook may end up in the CAA. GSU and App leaving spells more trouble for the Big South than the SoCon.

I disagree. People get lost in the private/public thing. That's a fiction. Conferences are about making money, at any level. The SoCon adds markets, not universities. People see Samford as a private school. The SoCon sees it as a school sitting in the largest city in Alabama.

I do not know who the conference would reach out to, but I would be surprised if they pursued small schools in rural communities. Other than being close geographically, what exactly do they do for the conference? My guess would be that the SoCon looks to the OVC, or perhaps some of the Virginia schools if the CAA looks unwell.

[Apphole]

the socon doesnt add schools on its own. samford was a unanimous pick by the presidents, coastal was not and that wasnt on a public vs private split

sometimes i think georgia southern and appalachian fans just sit back and keep the blinders on to the truth so they can justify anything that comes out of their mouths

No mention of App voting AGAINST adding fElon?

[The Eagle's Cliff]

I disagree. People get lost in the private/public thing. That's a fiction. Conferences are about making money, at any level. The SoCon adds markets, not universities. People see Samford as a private school. The SoCon sees it as a school sitting in the largest city in Alabama.

I do not know who the conference would reach out to, but I would be surprised if they pursued small schools in rural communities. Other than being close geographically, what exactly do they do for the conference? My guess would be that the SoCon looks to the OVC, or perhaps some of the Virginia schools if the CAA looks unwell.

I thought Presby because of geography. Gardner-Webb fits nicely in the SoCon and is an hour away from Charlotte, Greenville, and Spartanburg. Mercer in Macon brings money and keeps the Socon in Ga.

I really don't care. Many Georgia Southern folks share my view that the SoCon has treated us like a red-headed stepchild since we joined the conference. SoCon administrators and officiating crews are loaded with Furman and App alumni.

I've enjoyed travelling to SoCon schools for many years and enjoy all of them. Chattanooga has improved greatly over the last 5 years, but before that the game felt like a neutral site. I've said many times regarding the FBS issue that Ga Southern (and App St) can help themselves more in the lower-tier FBS than in FCS. It's not a slight to FCS, it's about public perception in our own markets while our in-state "competition" competes at a higher level. I'm certainly not under the delusion that Sun Belt membership will put us on the level of UGA, but I believe we can grow to have something like East Carolina in 15-20 years whereas we've hit the ceiling in FCS.

PS - I'll have to find a school to route for in FCS, if we leave. In the SoCon, it'll probably be Wofford. I've come to really appreciate how competitive they are in football and basketball with only 1500 students and 16,000 living alumni.

[Apphole]

I thought Presby because of geography. Gardner-Webb fits nicely in the SoCon and is an hour away from Charlotte, Greenville, and Spartanburg. Mercer in Macon brings money and keeps the Socon in Ga.

I really don't care. Many Georgia Southern folks share my view that the SoCon has treated us like a red-headed stepchild since we joined the conference. SoCon administrators and officiating crews are loaded with Furman and App alumni.

I've enjoyed travelling to SoCon schools for many years and enjoy all of them. Chattanooga has improved greatly over the last 5 years, but before that the game felt like a neutral site. I've said many times regarding the FBS issue that Ga Southern (and App St) can help themselves more in the lower-tier FBS than in FCS. It's not a slight to FCS, it's about public perception in our own markets while our in-state "competition" competes at a higher level. I'm certainly not under the delusion that Sun Belt membership will put us on the level of UGA, but I believe we can grow to have something like East Carolina in 15-20 years whereas we've hit the ceiling in FCS.


No way Jose. We are persecuted by zebras more than anyone. The Elon game in 2010 comes to mind.

[PaladinFan]

I thought Presby because of geography. Gardner-Webb fits nicely in the SoCon and is an hour away from Charlotte, Greenville, and Spartanburg. Mercer in Macon brings money and keeps the Socon in Ga.

I really don't care. Many Georgia Southern folks share my view that the SoCon has treated us like a red-headed stepchild since we joined the conference. SoCon administrators and officiating crews are loaded with Furman and App alumni.

I've enjoyed travelling to SoCon schools for many years and enjoy all of them. Chattanooga has improved greatly over the last 5 years, but before that the game felt like a neutral site. I've said many times regarding the FBS issue that Ga Southern (and App St) can help themselves more in the lower-tier FBS than in FCS. It's not a slight to FCS, it's about public perception in our own markets while our in-state "competition" competes at a higher level. I'm certainly not under the delusion that Sun Belt membership will put us on the level of UGA, but I believe we can grow to have something like East Carolina in 15-20 years whereas we've hit the ceiling in FCS.

PS - I'll have to find a school to route for in FCS, if we leave. In the SoCon, it'll probably be Wofford. I've come to really appreciate how competitive they are in football and basketball with only 1500 students and 16,000 living alumni.

I guess the argument is that, despite the perception of App and GSU fans, the SoCon is not trying to be a league of small colleges. They are seeking out markets. It's the exact same reason the SEC was not interested in Georgia Tech or Florida State. They don't add anything that is not already there.

All I am saying is that there is perception, and there is reality. I do not know the numbers, but I would imagine that Georgia Southern reaps a larger benefit from having a conference school in Birmingham than they ever would having another public college in Conway, South Carolina. Sure, Elon looked ridiculous as an addition until you realize it is not about Elon, but about the Triangle.

Can't speak to the officiating. I only know one SoCon official personally, and he went to the Citadel.

[fc97]

appalachian didnt vote against elon, they abstained from voting at all because laney and white had a disagreement over scheduling a basketball game in the 1990s

the socon adds schools based on many aspects
college of charleston was a good taac basketball school
uncg was a good big south basketball school at the time
elon added the triangle and triad markets for football
samford added a new state and the largest alabama city
wofford added a school with tons of money
davidson added a good basketball school and had history in the conference

[Lehigh Football Nation]

No, really, people are seriously talking about replacing Georgia Southern and App with Presbyterian and Gardner-Webb and saying that all is good?

[fc97]

so if you look at who could be next
gardner-webb adds no new market
presbyterian adds no new market
coastal adds good teams but is in a saturated south carolina

tennessee and virigina schools make the most sense

[Apphole]

so if you look at who could be next
gardner-webb adds no new market
presbyterian adds no new market
coastal adds good teams but is in a saturated south carolina

tennessee and virigina schools make the most sense

Unrelated question:
So you always write in prose?

[Eaglesrus]

When I read that I did it in this voice. I suggest the rest of you try it.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0186/7324/princess-bride_crop_340x234.jpg

And I thought I was anonymous on this board.

[PaladinFan]

No, really, people are seriously talking about replacing Georgia Southern and App with Presbyterian and Gardner-Webb and saying that all is good?

Nobody is, actually.

As far as I am aware, the SoCon presidents and leadership rarely, if ever, make public what they are doing. As such, 99% of everything you read on this forum is complete guesswork. GWU and Presbyterian are in SoCon country, but add nothing to the conference. I would be simply stunned if either were invited, particularly considering they are darn near next door to Furman and Wofford.

Most are just saying the losses would not scuttle the conference. The SoCon is an attractive landing spot for any southeastern school not in the CAA (and maybe even those schools, too). There's a fairly decent chance the SoCon comes out of this mess stronger than when it went in.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Nobody is, actually.

As far as I am aware, the SoCon presidents and leadership rarely, if ever, make public what they are doing. As such, 99% of everything you read on this forum is complete guesswork. GWU and Presbyterian are in SoCon country, but add nothing to the conference. I would be simply stunned if either were invited, particularly considering they are darn near next door to Furman and Wofford.

Most are just saying the losses would not scuttle the conference. The SoCon is an attractive landing spot for any southeastern school not in the CAA (and maybe even those schools, too). There's a fairly decent chance the SoCon comes out of this mess stronger than when it went in.

I only suggest GW, Presby, and Mercer for geographical reasons and the supposed need to keep at least 9 FCS football schools.

Assuming two schools are added to replace App and GSU, who do you think would be courted? Ideally, bringing W&M and Richmond back in would be great, but why would those schools be interested?

[PaladinFan]

I only suggest GW, Presby, and Mercer for geographical reasons and the supposed need to keep at least 9 FCS football schools.

Assuming two schools are added to replace App and GSU, who do you think would be courted? Ideally, bringing W&M and Richmond back in would be great, but why would those schools be interested?

I have no idea. I do think a lot of it hinges on whether the CAA begins to take on water. Of course, in my mind, the additions of Richmond and W&M would be great. Those two schools have long traditions of SoCon play, and fit the "mold." I also think VMI would be interested in a second go.

I have long thought that the SoCon can cherry pick from the OVC like they did with Samford. If Jacksonville State leaves, you might be able to entice a football school like Eastern Kentucky. They might target one of the Tennessee schools as well and continue to get the SoCon out of the Carolinas.

Interestingly, if things get hairy, the SoCon might choose instead to renovate to a basketball focus. They already have two of the more recognizable names in mid-major basketball in Davidson and Charleston. They might then try to add schools like Winthrop, UNC-A, or UNC-W and bring in a more basketball centered focus. I'd rather see them stick with football, though.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

the socon doesnt add schools on its own. samford was a unanimous pick by the presidents, coastal was not and that wasnt on a public vs private split

sometimes i think georgia southern and appalachian fans just sit back and keep the blinders on to the truth so they can justify anything that comes out of their mouths
Dead on. I don't think they realize what a bunch of asshats they (the ones that do it) look like running around singing that same stupid tune. Whoever got that hack mantra going must have been a good salesman or the buyers are just completely void of critical thought on the matter.

It's a good marker to let you know who is not gonna have much to say about things.

The fact that some of those very same small private schools gave them the opportunity to join the SoCon just seems to slip right past them.

Oh please tell me again how the conference doesn't like you and you've been victimized by being a part of it...it's makes so much sense and is so very interesting.

[Saint3333]

I think you could find more than a few in the SoCon that will disagree with that statement (they say that smokers can't smell that stale cigarette odor in their car either, so obviously you don't know how obnoxious ASU fans have become).

I do but come on we're talking about Marshall here.

[Saint3333]

There is a big difference in filling the spots and replacing.

[fc97]

it is no different when seniors graduate from high school, they think it all just wont be as good without them

the socon will be fine

[fc97]

and who to add
william and mary, richmond and uncw given a certain caa collapse
tennesse tech
vmi
a number of meac schools in choice other locations that arent happy about meac direction
kennesaw state would be prime, atlanta and gives back georgia
stetson would give florida
mercer would give back georgia
coastal may enter the debate again

who knows, one indication is clear, if app and gsu don't leave or one leaves soon, the conference will be proactive and add teams sooner rather than later

[Skjellyfetti]

Going with the market strategy and throwing a bunch of **** programs like stetson into the conference just to get their "markets" isn't the right approach for an FCS conference.

SoCon gets $0.00 for television rights. Adding Stetson or Kennessaw State's markets isn't going to increase that at all. I promise.

xlolx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Going with the market strategy and throwing a bunch of **** programs like stetson into the conference just to get their "markets" isn't the right approach for an FCS conference.

SoCon gets $0.00 for television rights. Adding Stetson or Kennessaw State's markets isn't going to increase that at all. I promise.

xlolx

Definitely shouldn't be used as a justification for why they should be in. It is still a slight positive though and there looks to be a bit of a trend of FCS conferences getting better deals at the moment so I'm not sure the SoCon won't be getting some sort of deal worked out in the next couple years anyway.

I still am shocked that a great conference like the SoCon does not get anything for TV even it is a small payout. It was even more shocking that they used to have to pay for it.

[Apps03]

Dead on. I don't think they realize what a bunch of asshats they (the ones that do it) look like running around singing that same stupid tune. Whoever got that hack mantra going must have been a good salesman or the buyers are just completely void of critical thought on the matter.

It's a good marker to let you know who is not gonna have much to say about things.

The fact that some of those very same small private schools gave them the opportunity to join the SoCon just seems to slip right past them.

Oh please tell me again how the conference doesn't like you and you've been victimized by being a part of it...it's makes so much sense and is so very interesting.

I don't totally buy into the private/public argument that goes on either but even PaladinFan, one of the biggest critics of that argument, mentions above that certain schools "fit the mold". Is there a mold or isn't there?

[dgtw]

Just how does the SoCon benefit from having a school in Birmingham? I live in the Birmingham area and I can tell you Samford is pretty far down the list when it comes to attention in the sports market. Very few people who did not go to Samford even care about the program. They have to fight for whatever media attention is left over after Alabama and Auburn roll through. UAB's program is a joke and they get more coverage by virtue of being FBS.

Turn to the sports pages in the fall here and you'll see Samford buried in the back with Jax State, Troy and other smaller schools in the state.

[Apphole]

I live in the Birmingham area and I can tell you Samford is pretty far down the list when it comes to attention in the sports market.

Didn't stop UNCC from getting an invite...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Come on now, Stetson?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I don't totally buy into the private/public argument that goes on either but even PaladinFan, one of the biggest critics of that argument, mentions above that certain schools "fit the mold". Is there a mold or isn't there?

There is a mold, I don't know it or what exactly it entails. I know that App and GSU fit it because they were allowed in.

That's where this sort of **** gets stupid. It's especially silly to blame other schools for the direction of the conference when the two biggest schools are voting the same way on most issues if that is what is happening.

No matter what it is a slogan that someone came up with and it's one without a whole lot of thought put into it yet it gets bandied about as an actual reasons for why App or GSU didn't get their way? Pure infantile silliness.

[asumike83]

I'm confused. Why on earth would the SoCon go after big markets when we are not pursuing a TV deal? Get teams that can come in and compete on the field. Coastal would be a great add, as well as several OVC schools if they were willing to jump ship.

[fc97]

market isnt just about tv deals, it is about exposure
without elon, only wxii would be covering socon football in the triad and none would be covering in the triangle

[Apps03]

I think we fit the "mold", whatever it is, when we joined the conference. Do you think a school can fit the mold at one time and not at a later date? I don't want to say that someone has outgrown the conference but I think we're clearly dealing with different levels of commitment and desires for athletic programs.
I agree that the term is thrown around too loosely and rarely in the correct context. I also agree that it is definitely not a reason for perceived bias by conference officials (refs or admin). Mostly pointing out that even some others obviously think there is a mold of some kind. Whatever the mold is I dont' think Richmond, W&M and APP are in the same mold.

[asumike83]

market isnt just about tv deals, it is about exposure
without elon, only wxii would be covering socon football in the triad and none would be covering in the triangle

With as light as SoCon coverage is in general, I think winning is the best way to get more. Putting teams in the playoffs will get exposure for the conference, those are the only games that get on ESPN. Mercer is not even a blip on the radar in terms of Atlanta sports coverage, and joining the SoCon would not change that.

[PaladinFan]

I don't totally buy into the private/public argument that goes on either but even PaladinFan, one of the biggest critics of that argument, mentions above that certain schools "fit the mold". Is there a mold or isn't there?

The public/private argument is nonsense. There are more public schools in the SoCon than private schools. Just because a public school is not a "Regional/Directional U" does not mean it is not a public school. I don't mind folks defining the institutions that are in the conference, but to divide it on public/private school lines ignores the obvious.

I think it goes without saying that there is some "mold" that SoCon schools fit into. For example, would you be surprised if the SoCon extended an offer to Nichols State? I would. It's in the Southeast. It's a public school. They play football. They don't fit what the conference is trying to do.

[PaladinFan]

Just how does the SoCon benefit from having a school in Birmingham? I live in the Birmingham area and I can tell you Samford is pretty far down the list when it comes to attention in the sports market. Very few people who did not go to Samford even care about the program. They have to fight for whatever media attention is left over after Alabama and Auburn roll through. UAB's program is a joke and they get more coverage by virtue of being FBS.

Turn to the sports pages in the fall here and you'll see Samford buried in the back with Jax State, Troy and other smaller schools in the state.


I'm not saying that Samford takes over the football airwaves on a Saturday afternoon. I am saying that having a conference school in Birmingham provides more opportunities to make money than having a 5th conference school in South Carolina.

[asumike83]

I'm not saying that Samford takes over the football airwaves on a Saturday afternoon. I am saying that having a conference school in Birmingham provides more opportunities to make money than having a 5th conference school in South Carolina.

I'm not sure. I think adding Coastal, who could potentially make the playoffs in football and would almost annually represent the conference in the NCAA baseball tournament, could have gotten more exposure for the conference.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I think we fit the "mold", whatever it is, when we joined the conference. Do you think a school can fit the mold at one time and not at a later date? I don't want to say that someone has outgrown the conference but I think we're clearly dealing with different levels of commitment and desires for athletic programs.
I agree that the term is thrown around too loosely and rarely in the correct context. I also agree that it is definitely not a reason for perceived bias by conference officials (refs or admin). Mostly pointing out that even some others obviously think there is a mold of some kind. Whatever the mold is I dont' think Richmond, W&M and APP are in the same mold.

I knew that was a possibility and probably where we were headed and agree that all of that is possible, no doubt. However if the teams being admitted to the conference need unanimous or near unanimous approval from the group then how does the direction of the conference become something a couple schools can use as some sort of weapon against the conference even become possible?

Maybe I misunderstand how Samford got in?

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Since 1991, when Georgia Southern joined the SoCon, East Tennessee, VMI, and Marshall have left while Wofford, Elon, Samford, College of Charleston, and UNC Greensboro have been added. College of Charleston is a public school, but it's a hoity-toity type school that fits the trend of the other country club schools added in the 90's. UNC Greensboro was added before the other four above. I don't think UNCG would get invited today.

App St and Georgia Southern are the exceptions in what is otherwise a Wine & Cheese football atmosphere. I remember being at William & Mary 2 years ago how similar it felt to Furman, Wofford, Elon, and Samford. That's fine, but App st. and Ga Southern need the local hillbillies and rednecks who like football and can't spell SAT to support our programs and we'll get more of them if we're "Division I".

[Apps03]

PaladinFan, I don't know enough about Nichols St to comment on that. I would have to think there are other options that would be more beneficial to the conference, public or private.

UAH, I don't pretend to know how the conference determines who is admitted and who is turned down. I agree that something like that should not be used as an argument against the conference. The SoCon has been a tremendous asset to ASU and I'd like to think ASU has been a tremendous asset to the SoCon. I can only speak for myself but I'm not putting down the SoCon or its members when/if I have a desire to move conferences. I realize its message board junk but when we beat somebody like Wofford, Furman or even Western all we hear is how "they should win, look at how big they are, look how many students they have and all the resources they have". Outside of this type of conversation, even the other schools realize there is a difference in what ASU is doing vs. what they are doing. I'm not even saying one is betther than the other, they're just different. Long post, sorry

[fc97]

for a new school to be admitted, the conference bylaws state that the member institution presidents must vote with a 3/4 majority

it has been documented that when a football decisions comes, the basketball schools vote with the majority

in any situation where there are 11 schools, it takes 8 votes to get 3/4

samford got 11, elon got 10 with 0 no votes to either

coastal had 4 against, all were south carolina schools

[fc97]

for the mold comments

does appalachian fit the mold more than barber soctia?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

PaladinFan, I don't know enough about Nichols St to comment on that. I would have to think there are other options that would be more beneficial to the conference, public or private.

UAH, I don't pretend to know how the conference determines who is admitted and who is turned down. I agree that something like that should not be used as an argument against the conference. The SoCon has been a tremendous asset to ASU and I'd like to think ASU has been a tremendous asset to the SoCon. I can only speak for myself but I'm not putting down the SoCon or its members when/if I have a desire to move conferences. I realize its message board junk but when we beat somebody like Wofford, Furman or even Western all we hear is how "they should win, look at how big they are, look how many students they have and all the resources they have". Outside of this type of conversation, even the other schools realize there is a difference in what ASU is doing vs. what they are doing. I'm not even saying one is betther than the other, they're just different. Long post, sorry

Agree with what you say again for the most part. Some are very concerned with perception, that's fine. I just can't buy into some of it cuz it's got no base.

When we were leading up to playing Wofford in 2007 my dad was on the phone and made a comment like "This looks like a pretty small school with only a couple thousand students so I think the Griz are gonna whoop em'."

I replied that Wofford gives the same # of schollies to the best 63 football players they can find to work in their style of football and that they were very good at what they did and that they would give us everything we could handle. I then went on to explain that it would not be a matchup of pugilistic skills between the Griz student body and Wofford's.

He doesn't know an extensive amount about the SoCon, CAA, etc., he knows some about the BSC and that's about it. I'm sure he was talking to someone else with little knowledge of the division and that is what they surmised to be a solid game analysis.

Most App fans have only very recently felt they had outgrown the SoCon. The App fans that post here now are a much, much different group than those who were here before the ride took off on the rocket ship. The attitude used to be a lot more like you and asumike, Moutaineer, AshApp's, and so forth.

App has a lot of fans now that were born on 3rd base and think they hit a triple and as such I really think that has a lot more to do with the general tenor and clamor to be FBS than anything else. App is at that point where they can make a go of it no doubt. I just don't see it as the payoff as some do and I'm pretty sure it's because I don't put nearly as much stock in the perception thing that others do.

[Saint3333]

it is no different when seniors graduate from high school, they think it all just wont be as good without them

the socon will be fine

Who will the SoCon add they will bring what App does to the conference, 140 championships since 1980 is a lot?

[The Cats]

Who will the SoCon add they will bring what App does to the conference, 140 championships since 1980 is a lot?

You now looking for someone to beg you to stay? If you're going to leave - leave (oh yeah, I forgot for a second, no one's invited you to the FBS party).

You guys think the conference will collapse without you, it may not be as strong initially, but someone will step up to feel the Appy and Stinky shoes.

[Saint3333]

So you have no idea.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

You now looking for someone to beg you to stay? If you're going to leave - leave (oh yeah, I forgot for a second, no one's invited you to the FBS party).

You guys think the conference will collapse without you, it may not be as strong initially, but someone will step up to feel the Appy and Stinky shoes.

I think the conference will be just fine without App and GSU as well, but can you blame App and GSU for wanting to leave when football at schools like Western is viewed as an opportunity to see the band perform? Competition makes everyone better.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

I think that, given its history and the respect for the conference the SoCon institutions display, any reshuffling will be done in any reflective, orderly manner. The queue for membership, should ASU and/or GaSouthern depart, is plenty long and replenishment would seem to be more based on collective goals than any 'market' decisions. The conference has enough stability and sense of place to withstand the current swirl. It is not a gang of opportunists and unlikely to act so as to possibly be viewed as a poacher. They do not need to ripple the water, fishing.

[OL FU]

No, really, people are seriously talking about replacing Georgia Southern and App with Presbyterian and Gardner-Webb and saying that all is good?

The fact that people are saying it doesn't mean it is going to happen. Not sure who we will add because losing those two would hurt the chances of getting a bigger school. I don't know if it is possible but I would certainly go after EKU. CCU may become a possibility after those two leave.

[Eagle22]

You now looking for someone to beg you to stay? If you're going to leave - leave (oh yeah, I forgot for a second, no one's invited you to the FBS party).

You guys think the conference will collapse without you, it may not be as strong initially, but someone will step up to fill the Appy and Stinky shoes.

So you're saying SoCon will win 5 I-AA/FCS titles and have multple semi-final appearances in the next 12 years, minus Georgia Southern and Appalachian State ?

Wow ... that is a pretty strong statement.

[AshevilleApp2]

You now looking for someone to beg you to stay? If you're going to leave - leave (oh yeah, I forgot for a second, no one's invited you to the FBS party).

You guys think the conference will collapse without you, it may not be as strong initially, but someone will step up to feel the Appy and Stinky shoes.

Why would someone want to feel our shoes?

[Smitty]

So you're saying SoCon will win 5 I-AA/FCS titles and have multple semi-final appearances in the next 12 years, minus Georgia Southern and Appalachian State ?

Wow ... that is a pretty strong statement.

Why not Chattanooga is a potential NFL team, surely they could handle the FCS titles for the next few years...

[fc97]

it doesnt matter how many championships, someone will fill the gap

lots of schools have left and lots have been repalced

if you want an ego stroke, go to a thread about app

[PaladinFan]

Who will the SoCon add they will bring what App does to the conference, 140 championships since 1980 is a lot?

Please understand that not everyone has as lofty a view of App State as you do. If they go, someone will take their place. As those left behind, we will occasionally raise our glasses when they lose (like we do with Marshall), but by and large, they will be forgotten about. There will be some picture of Armanti Edwards buried in the back of the media guide, but other than that, the conference will move along just fine.

[AshevilleApp2]

it doesnt matter how many championships, someone will fill the gap

lots of schools have left and lots have been repalced

if you want an ego stroke, go to a thread about app



Spell check is a handy tool.

[fc97]

it doesnt matter who we replace app and gsu with

and it surely should not matter to you

app will be gone and the rest of us will move on just fine

[AshevilleApp2]

for the mold comments

does appalachian fit the mold more than barber soctia?

More than Barber Scotia as well!

[fc97]

now we are to the point of lecturing on typing

its on a phone, deal with it

[Saint3333]

Please understand that not everyone has as lofty a view of App State as you do. If they go, someone will take their place. As those left behind, we will occasionally raise our glasses when they lose (like we do with Marshall), but by and large, they will be forgotten about. There will be some picture of Armanti Edwards buried in the back of the media guide, but other than that, the conference will move along just fine.

You keep saying someone will take their place, I agree, but they can't replace the what App offers, certainly not within the first 10 years of membership. Luckily we picked up GSU prior to Marshall's leaving. GSU was able to fill the gap Marshall left. Please understand that on the field and in the stands App is the leader of the SoCon. 140+ championships and the price gouging policies all SoCon members have when App comes to town will be very difficult to replace.

I've yet to hear someone name a program that the SoCon could reasonable fill a spot should it come open that will be a "replacement" for what App brings.

[asumike83]

I am aware of how obnoxious some App and GA Southern fans can be. I spend a good deal of time around both and from time to time, can probably be obnoxious myself. I believe the reason we see some of the comments from other SoCon folks is because they are annoyed with our fans, not because they honestly believe SoCon football will not take a serious hit if App and GSU leave. Just look at the last 15 years of football in the conference: there has been one year (2003) that App or GSU did not win at least a share of the conference title. In that same time period, App and GSU combined to win 5 National Championships. Unless there is a plan in place to add Montana and Delaware for football, that sport is going to take a hit.

However, I agree that they will move on and still be an excellent conference overall. With the candidates out there, the SoCon has the potential to not miss a step in baseball, improve as a basketball conference and remain a solid FCS football conference, although not as strong as it currently is.

[The Cats]

However, I agree that they will move on and still be an excellent conference overall. With the candidates out there, the SoCon has the potential to not miss a step in baseball, improve as a basketball conference and remain a solid FCS football conference, although not as strong as it currently is.

Finally, some sanity from an ASU fan.

[Apphole]

Finally, some sanity from an ASU fan.

**** you *** hole xshakingmadx

[AshevilleApp2]

now we are to the point of lecturing on typing

its on a phone, deal with it

:p

[TheRevSFA]

You keep saying someone will take their place, I agree, but they can't replace the what App offers, certainly not within the first 10 years of membership. Luckily we picked up GSU prior to Marshall's leaving. GSU was able to fill the gap Marshall left. Please understand that on the field and in the stands App is the leader of the SoCon. 140+ championships and the price gouging policies all SoCon members have when App comes to town will be very difficult to replace.

I've yet to hear someone name a program that the SoCon could reasonable fill a spot should it come open that will be a "replacement" for what App brings.

Take McNeese State. It'll truly make your conference the Southern Conference as it will stretch across the South....

..no wait..we like McNeese in our conference. Take Lamar. No one give a **** about them.

[phoenix3]

Who will the SoCon add they will bring what App does to the conference, 140 championships since 1980 is a lot?

As big time as App is, I'm surprised you haven't gotten a SEC invite. The reality is that you're a very good FCS football school. Nothing more. What you'll get is what Marshall got when they moved up, with the exception that you haven't gotten an invite to ANY FBS conferences not even at the Marshall level. Regardless of who replaces App, that is assuming you ever get an invite to move to a FBS conference, the SoCon will move forward and in what I expect to be a reasonably short time, will regain its overall strength in the FCS.

[fc97]

in other words

appalachian fans:
we hate the socon, we hate the privates, there is a conspiracy against us and gsu, everyone hates us, we re going to cusa, we re going to sun belt

socon:
ok, leave, please, rip the band aid off and go, let us move on

now appalachian fans
oh no, no one wants us, what are we going to do, look at us socon peeps, look what we do for you, love us, be happy we re here, youre better off

socon fans:
seriously? thats the perspective now, im sorry, you guys have burned your bridge

seriously:
app fans have done more to burn bridges in this conference for close to 7 years now. i am not sure why the conference would not just move ahead now without care for what appalchian fans want and considering appalchians perspective and vocal manner about it all, im not sure why the socon wouldnt just ask them to leave. after all, youd be better off independent from the sound of the past 7 years

[Apps03]

in other words

appalachian fans:
we hate the socon, we hate the privates, there is a conspiracy against us and gsu, everyone hates us, we re going to cusa, we re going to sun belt

socon:
ok, leave, please, rip the band aid off and go, let us move on

now appalachian fans
oh no, no one wants us, what are we going to do, look at us socon peeps, look what we do for you, love us, be happy we re here, youre better off

socon fans:
seriously? thats the perspective now, im sorry, you guys have burned your bridge

seriously:
app fans have done more to burn bridges in this conference for close to 7 years now. i am not sure why the conference would move ahead now without care for what appalchian fans want

I don't think fans on a message board are going to have any impact on what ultimately happens. Surely you realize the difference between message board chatter and reality, right?

[Apphole]

As big time as App is, I'm surprised you haven't gotten a SEC invite. The reality is that you're a very good FCS football school. Nothing more. What you'll get is what Marshall got when they moved up, with the exception that you haven't gotten an invite to ANY FBS conferences not even at the Marshall level. Regardless of who replaces App, that is assuming you ever get an invite to move to a FBS conference, the SoCon will move forward and in what I expect to be a reasonably short time, will regain its overall strength in the FCS.

Dominating the WAC followed by a CUSA invite? I'll take that. xlolx

[Apphole]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f3waZ9GYgM

[fc97]

message boards are one face of the conference

on one hand you have the appalachian staff dictating they want out, they want to do better and have been treading lightly on what to say

on the other hand you have your fans on every forum and newspaper known to man posting insane nonsense about the conference

both are damaging to the image and perception of stability in the conference

[fc97]

apphole finally posted a video about app

you lost cusa and sun belt

[asumike83]

What Appalachian fans say on a message board has ZERO impact on "burning bridges" with a conference. You really think they will be sitting at a meeting when the conference commissioner pulls out print-off of an AGS thread and tells us to leave? The fact is, our administration has done nothing to burn any bridges. They've been very clear that we would like to move up IF the right opportunity comes along. At this point, that has not happened and there has been no ASU official who has said a bad word about the SoCon or misled the conference in any way. Implying that the SoCon would kick us out of the conference based on message board chatter is laughable.

[AshevilleApp2]

Dominating the WAC followed by a CUSA invite? I'll take that. xlolx

Accuracy now. Marshall was never in the WAC.

[Saint3333]

Without App and GSU the SoCon would rank behind the CAA, Big Sky, MVC, and maybe the Southland.

App only brings football - get a clue elon fans.

[The Cats]

I think the conference will be just fine without App and GSU as well, but can you blame App and GSU for wanting to leave when football at schools like Western is viewed as an opportunity to see the band perform? Competition makes everyone better.

So GSU wants to leave the SoCon, what else is new? Last time I looked, no one in the SoCon has tied an anchor in you a$$.

Oh yeah, I forgot for a second, you need an invite by a FBS conference that wants you. How's that working out? For all the chest beating you and Appy spew every day, it seems that a school that has never played a down of football and another school that just started playing FCS got your invites. Too bad. Maybe the CAA will take both as a bundle.

[spartanhead]

No doubt the conference would survive w/o them but it would be a huge blow to it from a football standpoint. Those two programs are in the top 5 overall in FCS. You don't replace that kind of success, not to mention the attendance at those two programs, overnight or very easily.
I agree! It'll be a huge lost. What schools are being targeted now that APP and GSU have made their intentions public?

[AshevilleApp2]

Personally I like the Southern Conference and would prefer that we stay in our current status. But I also enjoy tweaking all the folks who are getting bent out of shape by the possibility of the move. It ain't that important folks.

[asumike83]

Puts the SoCon in a tough spot. It seem pretty clear they will lose their top two football programs but nobody really has any idea when. Personally, I think they should be proactive and pursue new members now. I think it would at least be worth a shot to make a call to some combination of Richmond, William & Mary, EKU and Coastal.

[Saint3333]

SoCon be proactive, I highly doubt it. If that were the case we'd have something other than PBS for our games.

[PaladinFan]

Puts the SoCon in a tough spot. It seem pretty clear they will lose their top two football programs but nobody really has any idea when. Personally, I think they should be proactive and pursue new members now. I think it would at least be worth a shot to make a call to some combination of Richmond, William & Mary, EKU and Coastal.

I agree.

Here's the way I see it. We have been discussing this move by App State for at least five years, and probably longer. I know Georgia Southern fans have been clamoring for it since the 90s. Now we find out that it's "any day now," and still nothing. All of this while other programs with a fraction of the tradition (or no tradition at all) get invites. At the end of the day, is it not completely plausible to say that App State and Georgia Southern are not going anywhere?

[AshevilleApp2]

I agree.

Here's the way I see it. We have been discussing this move by App State for at least five years, and probably longer. I know Georgia Southern fans have been clamoring for it since the 90s. Now we find out that it's "any day now," and still nothing. All of this while other programs with a fraction of the tradition (or no tradition at all) get invites. At the end of the day, is it not completely plausible to say that App State and Georgia Southern are not going anywhere?



Yes.

[asumike83]

I agree.

Here's the way I see it. We have been discussing this move by App State for at least five years, and probably longer. I know Georgia Southern fans have been clamoring for it since the 90s. Now we find out that it's "any day now," and still nothing. All of this while other programs with a fraction of the tradition (or no tradition at all) get invites. At the end of the day, is it not completely plausible to say that App State and Georgia Southern are not going anywhere?

Short term? Absolutely. Long term? Highly unlikely, in my opinion. The move has been discussed for a long time but the actual conclusion of the study with a recommendation to move was not until September 2011. There has not been this much widespread conference realignment in many years, it will just take a little longer to trickle down to schools without large TV markets. At this point, pretty much all the start-up programs in big metro areas are spoken for and although it looks more unlikely by the day that anything happens before this year's deadline, the mid-major FBS conferences will be going after established FCS programs next. I think the Big East will snatch up a few more C-USA schools, which will then get the dominoes falling again. My opinion from the beginning has been that Appalachian will be FBS beginning in 2014. Although there were rumors that it could happen sooner, that now seems unlikely. I think we miss the deadline this year, play the football season and strike a deal before next year's deadline to begin play in 2014. Again, just my opinion but that is how I see it playing out.

[PaladinFan]

Short term? Absolutely. Long term? Highly unlikely, in my opinion. The move has been discussed for a long time but the actual conclusion of the study with a recommendation to move was not until September 2011. There has not been this much widespread conference realignment in many years, it will just take a little longer to trickle down to schools without large TV markets. At this point, pretty much all the start-up programs in big metro areas are spoken for and although it looks more unlikely by the day that anything happens before this year's deadline, the mid-major FBS conferences will be going after established FCS programs next. I think the Big East will snatch up a few more C-USA schools, which will then get the dominoes falling again. My opinion from the beginning has been that Appalachian will be FBS beginning in 2014. Although there were rumors that it could happen sooner, that now seems unlikely. I think we miss the deadline this year, play the football season and strike a deal before next year's deadline to begin play in 2014. Again, just my opinion but that is how I see it playing out.

Seems reasonable.

If I had my druthers, I would like to see all of the sub-par FBS schools come back down. I think we can all agree that, FBS or FCS, there's a large group of teams that really ought to be playing each other. FCS football would be pretty compelling if the Idahos, UL-Ms, UL-Ls, MTSUs, and WKUs of the world were forced back to the FCS, leaving the FBS to the bigboys.

[fc97]

or when the bcs breaks off and the fcs is combined with fbs like 1982

[BearsCountry]

The CAA and SoCon could destroy the Big South as a football league if they wanted to along with some help from the Patriot League.

[phoenix3]

Without App and GSU the SoCon would rank behind the CAA, Big Sky, MVC, and maybe the Southland.

App only brings football - get a clue elon fans.

Didn't say you only bring football. It's just the only sport in which you're more than average. I also didn't say the conference wouldn't take a power hit in football in football if you leave. But, fans from other SoCon schools already expect the departure and see the reality that all we'll be losing is a strong football team. Everything else is easily replaceable. In time that will be replaced as well.

[boogereagle]

I'll miss the SoCon when we're gone.
I have a great respect for its history and have enjoyed our rivalries with App, Furman, Wofford and The Citadel, which for my money is one of the more underappreciated opponents we've had. Maybe that's because I'm from SC and grew up with a soft spot in my heart for The Citadel, but I can't remember too many blowouts when we played the Bulldogs.

[Apphole]

Didn't say you only bring football. It's just the only sport in which you're more than average. I also didn't say the conference wouldn't take a power hit in football in football if you leave. But, fans from other SoCon schools already expect the departure and see the reality that all we'll be losing is a strong football team. Everything else is easily replaceable. In time that will be replaced as well.

Idiot.

[fc97]

marshall fans said the same thing

seniors graduating say the same thing

people think they will be greatly missed when they leave, when the truth is, it will be a talking point and eventually fade

nothing to see here, move along to fbs now, this is a discussion for long term socon fans

[ASUMountaineer]

marshall fans said the same thing

seniors graduating say the same thing

people think they will be greatly missed when they leave, when the truth is, it will be a talking point and eventually fade

nothing to see here, move along to fbs now, this is a discussion for long term socon fans

Really? How long as Elon been in the SoCon?

ASU - 41-year member (and counting)
Elon - 9-year member (and counting)

xlolx

[fc97]

you want out

i want to stay

who is long term? xlolx

[Apphole]

you want out

i want to stay

who is long term? xlolx
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?108196-Elon-to-CAA

[fc97]

oh apphole, you try so hard and miss so badly

[Apphole]

oh apphole, you try so hard and miss so badly

You should try as hard as me I guess. You asked who is in this for the long haul and compared a 41-year SoCon member with a school that hasn't even been in the conference for a full decade, all the while there's a whole thread about the possibility of Elon going to the CAA. Comical really.

You've already made it clear that you're just bitter. Whether that bitterness is because we're making progress or because your school has never beaten us, I don't know. But you left logic behind a while ago...

[asumike83]

oh apphole, you try so hard and miss so badly

How is that a miss? You started the thread yourself talking about how CAA members were on campus talking to Elon and if they kicked the doors down without your permission, you sure failed to mention that part. Now you are the epitome of a loyal SoCon school that would never entertain the idea of playing your sports elsewhere?

You better hope your theory about message board chatter influencing conference decisions is false. Otherwise, you're bound to get Elon kicked out! xlolx

[SpiritCymbal]

The public/private argument is nonsense. There are more public schools in the SoCon than private schools. Just because a public school is not a "Regional/Directional U" does not mean it is not a public school. I don't mind folks defining the institutions that are in the conference, but to divide it on public/private school lines ignores the obvious.

I think it goes without saying that there is some "mold" that SoCon schools fit into. For example, would you be surprised if the SoCon extended an offer to Nichols State? I would. It's in the Southeast. It's a public school. They play football. They don't fit what the conference is trying to do.

I just want to point out that in my original post on page 2, I said "small/private"...not just "private". Even the public institutions that have been added are small schools. You don't add small schools for their TV market. As for the comment about ASU and GSU "fit the mold" otherwise they wouldn't be in the conference. Think back to when each was added. The SoCon has drastically changed in the type of members it has between then and now.

I'm not sure I understand why some of you don't want to admit the obvious....but I refuse to believe that y'all are ignorant enough to remain obtuse to the fact that the direction of the SoCon has shifted towards smaller (and/or) private members.

[fc97]

uncg and charleston are small?

[phoenix3]

Idiot.

That I may be, but I'm right about this. Truth hurts apparently. BTW, that was a pretty good come back for a pre adolescent girl.

[SpiritCymbal]

uncg and charleston are small?

UNCG - no
CofC - yes

I'll be glad to expand my original statement again to cover what I thought was obvious. ASU and GSU are driven by football and are large institutions. The SoCon has chosen to move towards...small (and/or) private (and/or) non-football playing members. It's ironic that the SoCon kicked out ETSU b/c it dropped football yet allowed Davidson, CofC and UNCG to stay without having football. What is the difference between the 4 schools? ETSU is a larger public institution.

But back to a better question.....

Who is realistically in-line to replace GSU and ASU? Emphasis on "realistically".

[The Eagle's Cliff]

So GSU wants to leave the SoCon, what else is new? Last time I looked, no one in the SoCon has tied an anchor in you a$$.

Oh yeah, I forgot for a second, you need an invite by a FBS conference that wants you. How's that working out? For all the chest beating you and Appy spew every day, it seems that a school that has never played a down of football and another school that just started playing FCS got your invites. Too bad. Maybe the CAA will take both as a bundle.

Unfortunately, FBS conferences are more concerned with media market size than with quality of athletics programs. It's been that way for a long time. I feel pretty confident that an invite will be coming before the new BCS contract is signed for 2014 and beyond. I also feel confident that the Big-Big Boys of D1 College Football will get even richer while the other 200 schools are even more marginalized.

I won't apologize for loathing the SoCon administration and game officials. I can offer praise for all of the schools in the conference, but when it comes to football, Western has been a miserable embarrassment to itself and the conference.

In fact, over the last 25 years Western is 93-180-1 with only 5 winning seasons has defeated App twice and Georgia Southern once. 25 years!!!!! I think the Cats would be better off just doing the opposite of whatever the coach says - it certainly can't hurt.

[PaladinFan]

UNCG - no
CofC - yes

I'll be glad to expand my original statement again to cover what I thought was obvious. ASU and GSU are driven by football and are large institutions. The SoCon has chosen to move towards...small (and/or) private (and/or) non-football playing members. It's ironic that the SoCon kicked out ETSU b/c it dropped football yet allowed Davidson, CofC and UNCG to stay without having football. What is the difference between the 4 schools? ETSU is a larger public institution.

But back to a better question.....

Who is realistically in-line to replace GSU and ASU? Emphasis on "realistically".

No body has an answer to that question. As best any of us can tell, the App/GSU to FBS talk is just talk. Why would the conference be discussing realistic replacements when no one has realistically left?

I keep coming back to this, but who does GSU want to see added to the conference? What is the criteria? Does it just have to be a directional-school?

I imagine you would say Coastal Carolina and Jacksonville State are the type of large public colleges the SoCon needs. Did you know that College of Charleston is larger than both Coastal Carolina and Jacksonville State?

[SpiritCymbal]

As best any of us can tell, the App/GSU to FBS talk is just talk. Why would the conference be discussing realistic replacements when no one has realistically left?

Do you honestly think that ASU and GSU are going to stay put for a while? (not trying to be confrontational, just a serious question of your opinion)


I keep coming back to this, but who does GSU want to see added to the conference? What is the criteria? Does it just have to be a directional-school?

I imagine you would say Coastal Carolina and Jacksonville State are the type of large public colleges the SoCon needs. Did you know that College of Charleston is larger than both Coastal Carolina and Jacksonville State?

Again, I think we can all agree that the thing that is driving both GSU and ASU is football. Correct? I believe a majority of fans and athletic administrators of each school wanted (back in '08) and would still want to add schools that are committed to football. If GSU and ASU were to stay in the SoCon, I think Coastal and Jacksonville St. would probably be higher up on the charts simply b/c of their commitment to football. IMO, neither are terribly attractive overall, but given what is available, they would probably be tops on the list.

With GSU and ASU gone, I definitely think the other SoCon members would probably like to pursue schools like Presbyterian, Gardner-Webb, etc...And I think that is a good match for what the SoCon is looking for in it's "mold". ASU and GSU fans and administrators would most definitely NOT be happy with either of those choices. Hence why I keep coming back to saying the direction that ASU and GSU want to go is different than the direction the rest of the conference wants to go. It's also why I have no doubt that the SoCon will survive when (not if) ASU and GSU leave. Will the SoCon have the same clout in 1-aa football after that happens? No one can question that it will not.

[asumike83]

I imagine you would say Coastal Carolina and Jacksonville State are the type of large public colleges the SoCon needs. Did you know that College of Charleston is larger than both Coastal Carolina and Jacksonville State?

To me, it is not so much the enrollment size as it is having a few more public institutions whose whose primary athletic focus is football, which is obviously not the case with C of C and UNCG. Jacksonville State has a great football program, would provide an in-state rival for Samford and would be a good get for the SoCon in my opinion. While Coastal is not quite in that same boat, they have had some decent success with a young football program to go along with an excellent baseball team that would be a perennial contender from day one.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I have a lot of respect for what schools like Furman and Wofford have done over the years considering their admissions standards for athletes are considerably higher than most of Division I. I never count them as automatic wins no matter what the circumstances are. But it's crazy to think GSU and App. won't leave big gaping holes as far as football goes if they were to leave.

You are talking about two schools that have had at least a share of 14 of the last 15 conference championships in football. Two schools that probably have more playoff wins than any other two schools in the FCS, have more national championships than any two FCS schools, that have together won 5 of the last 12 FCS national championships and have been represented in 13 of the last 14 semifinals.

[Apphole]

No body has an answer to that question. As best any of us can tell, the App/GSU to FBS talk is just talk. Why would the conference be discussing realistic replacements when no one has realistically left?


I think the point people are trying to make is that the SoCon would do well to be proactive rather than reactive about the situation. We may not agree on the time table but it is an inevitably that App and GaSo will leave. The "wait and see" attitude may turn out beneficial for App and GaSo in that if SoCon keeps sitting it's hands till we leave, we're unlikely to have the exit fee jacked up at the last minute.

[alvinkayak6]

Unfortunately, FBS conferences are more concerned with media market size than with quality of athletics programs. It's been that way for a long time. I feel pretty confident that an invite will be coming before the new BCS contract is signed for 2014 and beyond. I also feel confident that the Big-Big Boys of D1 College Football will get even richer while the other 200 schools are even more marginalized.

I won't apologize for loathing the SoCon administration and game officials. I can offer praise for all of the schools in the conference, but when it comes to football, Western has been a miserable embarrassment to itself and the conference.

In fact, over the last 25 years Western is 93-180-1 with only 5 winning seasons has defeated App twice and Georgia Southern once. 25 years!!!!! I think the Cats would be better off just doing the opposite of whatever the coach says - it certainly can't hurt.

That's not true uniformly. Boise State was invited to the Big East, because the Big East needed to keep its winning % up to retain autobid status. Boise State accepted because they want that autobid. The SEC added Texas A&M and Missouri; Missouri was mostly to keep an even number. A lot of conference alignment is about filling holes. I don't remember anyone saying Nebraska was a huge TV market; they clearly have a winning tradition, though. If Nebraska was like Baylor then we would not be having that convo

[OL FU]

I don't care who the replacements are as long as they play lacrossexnodxxeyebrowx:)

[fc97]

the socon didnt kick out etsu

etsu filed for a waizer for lack of football that the conference presidents voted on and failed to get the 3/4 voted to allow

only utc, western, appalachian and elon voted in favor, uncg, davidson and charleston abstained, the rest voted no including georgia southern

in fact, georgia southern was one of the most vocal against granting a waiver

etsu failed on a public/private and large/small as you say split, not really the picture you are painting

[fc97]

also i differ

no school in the socon is a large school, they are all medium sized and smaller public schools and medium sized and smaller private schools

[Saint3333]

Didn't say you only bring football. It's just the only sport in which you're more than average. I also didn't say the conference wouldn't take a power hit in football in football if you leave. But, fans from other SoCon schools already expect the departure and see the reality that all we'll be losing is a strong football team. Everything else is easily replaceable. In time that will be replaced as well.

"More than average" - how come App in every sport except for golf and tennis finishes in the top half of the standings more often than not, has 29 conference championships in the last 6 years, and win the commissioner's cup every year and the Germann Cup 3 of the last 6 years. You might want to rethink your statement.

[phoenix3]

"More than average" - how come App in every sport except for golf and tennis finishes in the top half of the standings more often than not, has 29 conference championships in the last 6 years, and win the commissioner's cup every year and the Germann Cup 3 of the last 6 years. You might want to rethink your statement.

Much of winning a commissioner's cup has to do with the number of sports in which you compete. Take Georgia Southern for example. They don't field teams in cross country, indoor track, outdoor track, and wrestling. So while they may compete in the top half of the conference in the sports they field, winning a commissioner's cup would be nearly impossible.

What I posted stands.

[Saint3333]

sorry other schools don't fund all sports, that further supports that App's place at the top. Compare only comparable sports if you'd like. Now GSU is your pick, consider the topic thread prior to posting.

App has the most complete athletic program in the conference AND has the championships to back it up. 140 championships, only 11 were in football.

[fc97]

come on, love me, we re app, we re so awesome at everything and we have to be friends with you guys again

give it a rest

who cares what appalachian has done. this thread is about what the socon does going forward and that going forward does not involve a school whos fans vocally diminish the conference in one breath and talk about how awesome they are for the conference in the other

this is about the rest of us and what we want to do, not you

so back to the thread's topic, which should involve no georgia southern or appalachian fans: who do we go after as a group of 3 basketball schools, 3 public football schools and 4 private schools

i say expand west and north - vmi, william and mary, eastern kentucky, tennessee tech, kennesaw state, and those types

[Saint3333]

Good move.

[Eagle22]

the socon didnt kick out etsu

etsu filed for a waizer for lack of football that the conference presidents voted on and failed to get the 3/4 voted to allow

only utc, western, appalachian and elon voted in favor, uncg, davidson and charleston abstained, the rest voted no including georgia southern

in fact, georgia southern was one of the most vocal against granting a waiver

etsu failed on a public/private and large/small as you say split, not really the picture you are painting

True that Georgia Southern was the most vocal, but remember what preceded that ? VMI wanted to keep their membership in the conference, but take football to play outside the league, ala Davidson.

The complete hypocrisy by much of the membership, at that time, was ridiculous. It was considered to be "okay" to let Davidson back into the conference with those stipulations, but not allow VMI, a long time member of the conference to stay under essentially the same circumstances. And which team was the most vocal about making sure VMI could not do that ? Yep, ETSU.

The decision making that went into pushing VMI out, was nuts. For one, it further constricted the league's footprint ... which had already suffered some tightening after Marshall exited in 1996. Leaving Virginia, in my opinion, was a poor move for the conference.

Once Georgia Southern and Appalachian State leave, the SoCon can further tighten that footprint and get closer to Carolina Conference status. UTC and Samford will be tempted to reconsider life in the OVC, once that happens.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

sorry other schools don't fund all sports, that further supports that App's place at the top. Compare only comparable sports if you'd like. Now GSU is your pick, consider the topic thread prior to posting.

App has the most complete athletic program in the conference AND has the championships to back it up. 140 championships, only 11 were in football.

I think you overlook the fact that with indoor and outdoor track and cross-country it's almost like a 3-in-1. Many athletes can be used across all three of those sports. Yet you get credit in the Commissioners Cup for all three of them.

GSU has finished ahead of App this academic year in football, men's basketball, men's soccer, golf, and could very well win the SoCon tournament in baseball (especially if Victor Roache will be able to return). That's basically at least 4 of the 6 men's sports we play in. But App. State will still finish ahead of GSU in the standings, if not win it altogether. I wouldn't use the CC as a measuring stick.

[The Moody1]

I wouldn't use the CC as a measuring stick.

I bet you wouldn't. xlolx

[Skjellyfetti]

So you should get bonus points because you don't fund many sports? xconfusedx

[The Cats]

Once Georgia Southern and Appalachian State leave, the SoCon can further tighten that footprint and get closer to Carolina Conference status. UTC and Samford will be tempted to reconsider life in the OVC, once that happens.

ASU - North Carolina
GSU - Georgia

only in your mind would these two teams leaving the SoCon would it result in tightening the footprint into the Carolina Conference. However, if that really concerns you, I recommend you lobby GSU not to depart the SoCon, after all, GSU nor ASU is being asked to leave.

[ASU_Fanatic]

I don't think App or Gaso are going anywhere right now... ? SoCon will always have teams that would love to join.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

So you should get bonus points because you don't fund many sports? xconfusedx

Not saying that...just saying it can be really misleading way to gauge overall performance in conference. Just how much better overall do we have to do to be able to say we're on par with App. because you fund more sports?

When it comes to the big 3 sports, the picture looks like this (keep in mind App. State has been in the conference 20 years longer than GSU)

Football Championships
GSU - 9
App - 8

Basketball Championships (tournament)
App - 1
GSU - 0

Baseball Championships (tournament)
GSU - 5
App - 1

And since we joined the conference we have winning records against App in all 3 sports.

No doubt GSU and ASU's football programs will be impossible for the SoCon to replace. I don't understand some App. fans acting like they're the crown jewel of the conference, though. The only other program that might be at least somewhat hard to replace is GSU baseball, and that's if Coastal isn't available.

[Skjellyfetti]

Y'all do not have a winning record against App in football. Either all time or since you joined the conference.



The only other program that might be at least somewhat hard to replace is GSU baseball, and that's if Coastal isn't available.

App State track.

16 titles for the men since 1978
15 titles for the women since 1987

Or, does that not count since y'all sit that sport out? xconfusedx

[Eagle22]

Y'all do not have a winning record against App in football. Either all time or since you joined the conference.




App State track.

16 titles for the men since 1978
15 titles for the women since 1987

Or, does that not count since y'all sit that sport out? xconfusedx

GSU-ASU are tied 10-10 since GSU joined the conference and played ASU as a league opponent. We knocked you out of the playoffs in 2001, so the tie breaker is in our favor ;)

Seriously though, this thread has been entertaining if nothing else. Lots of folks seem to think that if ASU and GSU were to leave, that there are two replacement teams sitting idly by awaiting a call from the SoCon. Both schools travel pretty well .. you'd seem to think that a couple of thousand visiting fans represents a nice amount of $$ to offset operations and help fill the coffers. I'm not aware of two other FCS level teams within the footprint that travel as well, that the SoCon would want. Maybe I'm just overlooking them.

[fc97]

the conference doesnt want to be a carolinas conference, if that was the case, coastal carolina would be here and samford would not

so that theory and line of logic are out the windows

utc may or may not be happy when all falls out but rest assured, the conference values utc and all possible items will be measured so that current membership is happy, the league wants stability. this is why jacksonville state was never a real candidate and samford was

vmi left and a larger school in a dual metro came in and etsu was forced out and another school was taken in within a large metro

the precedent has been set and it is not a large school vs small school or a public vs private discussion

this comes right back to the fact that the conference will be fine. vmi could always come back which would not be a bad move and the conference could pursue other avenues of a richmond/uncw addition or kennesaw st or tennessee tech and so on

[Skjellyfetti]

the conference will be fine. vmi could always come back

xthumbsupx

[tractorapp]

What is the point of expanding the footprint if the SoCon gets no revenue from TV? Why not invite teams currently in the footprint, minimize travel cost and missed class time and be done with it?

Hard for me to think of any current FCS team they could add that would entice any TV network to pay for SoCon media rights. If Winthrop would add football they would be a no-brainer for the SoCon to add.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

The PBS contract may not provide revenue in football (yet) but it gives the conference schools and particularly the fb programs some exposure on the single or lowest double-digit channels on broadcast and cable. These schools are all about raising their visibility and profile. Consider that when NBC and CBS Sports hang out in the 600's on DirecTV. On cable those channels, plus ESPNU and various regional networks are in 'sports packages' at a premium. Did Fox Sports even cover production costs in the past?

PBS need not be a charity gig forever. UConn women's hoops is broadcast on public television, every game not on a national network. CPTV runs a beg-a-thon during every customary media timeout, makes beaucoup bucks, and these days I believe they pay for the chance.

[fc97]

because expanding has nothing to do with tv revenue only, it is about any and all exposure, both free and revenue that would not otherwise be present

elon added no tv renevue, but it got the conference constant exposure on newspaper and television news by constant coverage of football, basketball and baseball games that was not otherwise there

samford added no tv revenue, but it got the conference constant exposure on the same part for alabama where the conference hasnt had a presence in half a century

winthrop would be a good add, it would give free charlotte market coverage something that gardner-webb wont do

coastal doesn't really give any of the above though they have good programs

i dont get what is so hard to understand about all this, its the same argument appalachian fans are making for why they shouldnt be overlooked by fbs conferences

[aceinthehole]

PBS need not be a charity gig forever. UConn women's hoops is broadcast on public television, every game not on a national network. CPTV runs a beg-a-thon during every customary media timeout, makes beaucoup bucks, and these days I believe they pay for the chance.

Yes, CPTV was an excellent deal for what is a "non-revenue" sport at most schools. CPTV appealled to senior citizens who were huge CPTV viewers and doners. Huskies WBB was a huge fundraiser for CPTV. It was a great deal for both side for nearly a decade. However, that deal is now over. SNY (Home of the NY Mets and a NY regional sports networked carried throughout the tri-state) just took over UConn WBB broadcasts and UConn Coaches shows, spring football games, etc. The deal is worth about $1m per year.

CPTV's replacement sports programming is being highlighted by with Central Connectiticut State men's hoops, and University of Hartford womens hoops. Both programs are coached by former UConn assistants coaches (Howie Dickenman & Jen Rizzotti) who still have a strong following theoughout the state. High Schools sports and other collge sports will also be featured.

[PaladinFan]

GSU-ASU are tied 10-10 since GSU joined the conference and played ASU as a league opponent. We knocked you out of the playoffs in 2001, so the tie breaker is in our favor ;)

Seriously though, this thread has been entertaining if nothing else. Lots of folks seem to think that if ASU and GSU were to leave, that there are two replacement teams sitting idly by awaiting a call from the SoCon. Both schools travel pretty well .. you'd seem to think that a couple of thousand visiting fans represents a nice amount of $$ to offset operations and help fill the coffers. I'm not aware of two other FCS level teams within the footprint that travel as well, that the SoCon would want. Maybe I'm just overlooking them.

At the end of the day, no one has any idea who would join the conference. I think it is misleading to think that there is some magic team out there that will cure all ills. I do think that the SoCon has a history of taking in teams on one else thought about, and then watch those teams turn into playoff-calibre programs. Who among us thought Elon would be in the conversation for the SoCon title? Wofford for a national title?

There's no argument that losing GSU and App would hurt football. Most on here are arguing that losing both would not hurt much else.

[PaladinFan]

The PBS contract may not provide revenue in football (yet) but it gives the conference schools and particularly the fb programs some exposure on the single or lowest double-digit channels on broadcast and cable. These schools are all about raising their visibility and profile. Consider that when NBC and CBS Sports hang out in the 600's on DirecTV. On cable those channels, plus ESPNU and various regional networks are in 'sports packages' at a premium. Did Fox Sports even cover production costs in the past?

PBS need not be a charity gig forever. UConn women's hoops is broadcast on public television, every game not on a national network. CPTV runs a beg-a-thon during every customary media timeout, makes beaucoup bucks, and these days I believe they pay for the chance.

It is amusing to hear Georgia Southern fans argue against the public television contract. I watched the Furman/GSU game this year on GPTV and it was a three hour commercial for Georgia Southern University.

[phoenix3]

At the end of the day, no one has any idea who would join the conference. I think it is misleading to think that there is some magic team out there that will cure all ills. I do think that the SoCon has a history of taking in teams on one else thought about, and then watch those teams turn into playoff-calibre programs. Who among us thought Elon would be in the conversation for the SoCon title? Wofford for a national title?

There's no argument that losing GSU and App would hurt football. Most on here are arguing that losing both would not hurt much else.

What he said.

[Eaglesrus]

It is amusing to hear Georgia Southern fans argue against the public television contract. I watched the Furman/GSU game this year on GPTV and it was a three hour commercial for Georgia Southern University.

As it should have been! :)

[asumike83]

At the end of the day, no one has any idea who would join the conference. I think it is misleading to think that there is some magic team out there that will cure all ills. I do think that the SoCon has a history of taking in teams on one else thought about, and then watch those teams turn into playoff-calibre programs. Who among us thought Elon would be in the conversation for the SoCon title? Wofford for a national title?

There's no argument that losing GSU and App would hurt football. Most on here are arguing that losing both would not hurt much else.

That is completely dependent on who you replace them with.

Appalachian has cleaned up the men's and women's track and field titles, which I know is not a revenue or spectator sport but still adds strength to the conference's Olympic sports overall. There is no question that baseball would take a serious hit unless Coastal was one of the replacements. GA Southern has an excellent baseball program and Appalachian's has steadily improved, leading the SoCon going into the final weekend with a recruiting class coming in that should keep us winning a lot of games in the coming years as well. Obviously, football will be the major loss and basketball could actually get stronger overall, but there are other sports to consider. That is why I like the idea of Coastal. They will fill a serious need in baseball and strengthen basketball.

[ASUMountaineer]

you want out

i want to stay

who is long term? xlolx

You? I? I'm not sure what you or I have to do with the long-term membership, ASU leadership has not consulted me on the decision...yet.

However, I see you're going with the "facts-be-damned" logic. Impressive.

41 years is more long-term than 9 years.

The fact is that both schools would consider leaving the SoCon if a better option became available, the difference is that ASU has publicly acknowledged as much.

[asumike83]

You? I? I'm not sure what you or I have to do with the long-term membership, ASU leadership has not consulted me on the decision...yet.

However, I see you're going with the "facts-be-damned" logic. Impressive.

41 years is more long-term than 9 years.

The fact is that both schools would consider leaving the SoCon if a better option became available, the difference is that ASU has publicly acknowledged as much.

Gotta love how he starts a thread about CAA officials visiting Elon one day, then comes in this thread and tells everyone that only serious long-term SoCon members can offer an opinion.

[Apphole]

Gotta love how he starts a thread about CAA officials visiting Elon one day, then comes in this thread and tells everyone that only serious long-term SoCon members can offer an opinion.

The ol' double standard.

Where's chattown? Someone is actually paradoxically besting him over the last few days.

[ASUMountaineer]

Gotta love how he starts a thread about CAA officials visiting Elon one day, then comes in this thread and tells everyone that only serious long-term SoCon members can offer an opinion.

Of course, one could argue that fans of a school that has been in the SoCon for 41 years (and counting) could offer a better perspective on the SoCon moving forward than one with only 9 years worth of experience. Just sayin'...

[PaladinFan]

That is completely dependent on who you replace them with.

Appalachian has cleaned up the men's and women's track and field titles, which I know is not a revenue or spectator sport but still adds strength to the conference's Olympic sports overall. There is no question that baseball would take a serious hit unless Coastal was one of the replacements. GA Southern has an excellent baseball program and Appalachian's has steadily improved, leading the SoCon going into the final weekend with a recruiting class coming in that should keep us winning a lot of games in the coming years as well. Obviously, football will be the major loss and basketball could actually get stronger overall, but there are other sports to consider. That is why I like the idea of Coastal. They will fill a serious need in baseball and strengthen basketball.

I see only four "tough to replace" SoCon teams that have not only local, but national recognition: App State/GSU in football, Furman in men's soccer, and Davidson in men's basketball.

Of course, that is only my opinion. The SoCon has some good teams, particularly in baseball, but no other teams that folks across the county would know.

[fc97]

sad to see you guys split hairs

caa officials talking was a rumor, but doesnt mean anything

but again, how does it feel to see another school get a visit when you guys dont

[Skjellyfetti]

but again, how does it feel to see another school get a visit when you guys dont

uhm.


caa officials talking was a rumor, but doesnt mean anything


xconfusedx
xbangx

[Skjellyfetti]

I see only four "tough to replace" SoCon teams that have not only local, but national recognition: App State/GSU in football, Furman in men's soccer, and Davidson in men's basketball.

Of course, that is only my opinion. The SoCon has some good teams, particularly in baseball, but no other teams that folks across the county would know.

Hate to burst your bubble... but, folks around the country don't know Furman about soccer. A small handful of people may know that Clint Dempsey played there... but, that's about it. xcoffeex

[asumike83]

sad to see you guys split hairs

caa officials talking was a rumor, but doesnt mean anything

but again, how does it feel to see another school get a visit when you guys dont

It doesn't feel one way or another to me, there is no need for Appalachian to leave the SoCon for another FCS conference.

But then again, what visit are you talking about? One sentence earlier, you said it was a rumor (started by you) that doesn't mean anything. Nice work, truly great stuff.

[Skjellyfetti]

We should give Elon fans a break. This is the only way they can be obnoxious this offseason. Even they realize they can't be bragging about how they will win the SoCon this year, or whoop our *** in Boone, etc after a 5-6 season.

[Apphole]

Starts thread about Elon going Caa

Attacks App for not being "loyal to the SoCon"

States that the Elon/CAA was just a rumor

Makes fun of App for Elon getting a visit from CAA

xlolx

[fc97]

caa was rumored to have visited, even if true, does not mean one thing or another. it could mean a home for the new lacrosse team and nothing more

[fc97]

later appalachian fans, you try to hard to be obnoxious, but, its just too funny to read

the real content of this thread is over, see ya

[Skjellyfetti]

caa was rumored to have visited, even if true, does not mean one thing or another.

xrolleyesx


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COGtbJGQFJ0


but again, how does it feel to see another school get a visit when you guys dont

[hapapp]

Hate to burst your bubble... but, folks around the country don't know Furman about soccer. A small handful of people may know that Clint Dempsey played there... but, that's about it. xcoffeex

Actually, Ricardo Clark played at Furman as well. That's two Paladins who played for the USMNT. I know App fans (or at least I would) would tout our soccer program if we had produced two such players.

[chattownmocs]

No fear guys, Lamarino is watching

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2012/may/13/southern-conference-commissioner-john-iamarin-ncaa/?sportspreps

http://media.timesfreepress.com/img/photos/2012/02/28/0427_ls_D06__Iamarino_2_col_t618.JPG?ba5b5b122dd3d 37cc13d83e92a6a0ec0d5bfa32a

[PaladinFan]

Actually, Ricardo Clark played at Furman as well. That's two Paladins who played for the USMNT. I know App fans (or at least I would) would tout our soccer program if we had produced two such players.

Thank you.

The original response misses the point. It matters little whether joe average knows the alma maters of the men's national team. It matters a good deal more to the point that Furman has a national division 1 presence in the sport that goes beyond "FCS" or "mid major" colleges. That is to say, its a program that the conference cannot easily replace. We aren't talking success on a SoCon level, but success on a national level.

[chattownmocs]

The ol' double standard.

Where's chattown? Someone is actually paradoxically besting him over the last few days.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/math/7/d/2/7d2db2652005e1b6d32d8645539b63e4.png

[OL FU]

Hate to burst your bubble... but, folks around the country don't know Furman about soccer. A small handful of people may know that Clint Dempsey played there... but, that's about it. xcoffeex

My guess is soccer fans know. Also, most people know ASU beat Michigan. Outside of that they know little. Hell I am not sitting down heah in Gawga. and when I mention GSU I hear that gotta great division II team.

So let's face, in this part of the country, people don't know much about our schools. and the argument isn't about whether other people know or not.

Sk, sometime you amaze me.

[seantaylor]

Georgia Southern baseball has been to two college world series.

[PaladinFan]

Georgia Southern baseball has been to two college world series.

A worthy accomplishment, but a World Series appearance 20 years ago does not put GSU on the map of nationally recognized baseball programs.

The argument is not to lessen the accomplishments of the conference schools, but only to point out that there are a small handful of programs that put the SoCon on the national map.

[chattownmocs]

Noone would really miss Georgia Southern if they left. They've had a pretty good this year Ending ASU's long football, and Chattanooga's long softball run. But sometimes they don't win any championships in a year. As far as which school would hurt the most overall, of course I have to say it would be Chattanooga. While there may be a few schools with a program that may be better than just about anything Chattanooga has, Furman soccer, davidson basketball?? Chattanooga has several programs that have at least competed at the top of the mid major level in the past few years. Far more than anyone else.

[Eaglesrus]

Noone would really miss Georgia Southern if they left. They've had a pretty good this year Ending ASU's long football, and Chattanooga's long softball run. But sometimes they don't win any championships in a year. As far as which school would hurt the most overall, of course I have to say it would be Chattanooga. While there may be a few schools with a program that may be better than just about anything Chattanooga has, Furman soccer, davidson basketball?? Chattanooga has several programs that have at least competed at the top of the mid major level in the past few years. Far more than anyone else.

Quite possibly your best one yet, thanks!

[fc97]

citadel and georgia southern runs in college world series is def worth acknowledgement, socon baseball is the main sport where the conference is recognized nationally

georgia southern would be majorly missed there

[Apphole]

Noone would really miss Georgia Southern if they left. They've had a pretty good this year Ending ASU's long football, and Chattanooga's long softball run. But sometimes they don't win any championships in a year. As far as which school would hurt the most overall, of course I have to say it would be Chattanooga. While there may be a few schools with a program that may be better than just about anything Chattanooga has, Furman soccer, davidson basketball?? Chattanooga has several programs that have at least competed at the top of the mid major level in the past few years. Far more than anyone else.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3e0jnsfwT1r0ix14o1_500.gif

[asumike83]

A worthy accomplishment, but a World Series appearance 20 years ago does not put GSU on the map of nationally recognized baseball programs.

The argument is not to lessen the accomplishments of the conference schools, but only to point out that there are a small handful of programs that put the SoCon on the national map.

I'd say GSU is as well recognized to college baseball fans as Furman is among college soccer fans. Furman has made 10 NCAA soccer tournament appearances, most recently in 2007 with their deepest run coming in 1999, when they made the quarterfinals. GSU has made 13 appearances in the NCAA baseball tournament, most recently in 2011 with 2 College World Series appearances (1973, 1990). As fc97 mentioned, the SoCon is more highly regarded on a national scale in baseball than any other sport. It is currently rated 8th of 32 Division 1 conferences. Both are nationally relevant and would be hard to replace.

[Saint3333]

Noone would really miss Georgia Southern if they left. They've had a pretty good this year Ending ASU's long football, and Chattanooga's long softball run. But sometimes they don't win any championships in a year. As far as which school would hurt the most overall, of course I have to say it would be Chattanooga. While there may be a few schools with a program that may be better than just about anything Chattanooga has, Furman soccer, davidson basketball?? Chattanooga has several programs that have at least competed at the top of the mid major level in the past few years. Far more than anyone else.

Bookmark this post for future reference - http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?106014-Chattanooga-spring-outlook&p=1779954&viewfull=1#post1779954

[PaladinFan]

I'd say GSU is as well recognized to college baseball fans as Furman is among college soccer fans. Furman has made 10 NCAA soccer tournament appearances, most recently in 2007 with their deepest run coming in 1999, when they made the quarterfinals. GSU has made 13 appearances in the NCAA baseball tournament, most recently in 2011 with 2 College World Series appearances (1973, 1990). As fc97 mentioned, the SoCon is more highly regarded on a national scale in baseball than any other sport. It is currently rated 8th of 32 Division 1 conferences. Both are nationally relevant and would be hard to replace.

Incorrect. Furman was in the NCAA tournament as recently as this past season. They made deep runs in the tournament in 1999 and 2002.

Besides, I'm not arguing against SoCon baseball, which is probably the conference's best sport on a national stage. I am saying that there are only a couple of programs (not sports) that have national recognition. Not occasional great seasons, but year in year out considered to be among the best small-college programs in the country. GSU baseball has had some nice runs, but they are not Wichita State (who most people recognize as a national name in college baseball and nothing else).

[PaladinFan]

Bookmark this post for future reference - http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?106014-Chattanooga-spring-outlook&p=1779954&viewfull=1#post1779954

It would certainly hurt Furman's football record.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

It would certainly hurt Furman's football record.

Not to mention Western Carolina. Chatty is the ONLY team in the SoCon Western has defeated regularly over the last 25 yearsxlolxxlolx

[asumike83]

Incorrect. Furman was in the NCAA tournament as recently as this past season. They made deep runs in the tournament in 1999 and 2002.

Besides, I'm not arguing against SoCon baseball, which is probably the conference's best sport on a national stage. I am saying that there are only a couple of programs (not sports) that have national recognition. Not occasional great seasons, but year in year out considered to be among the best small-college programs in the country. GSU baseball has had some nice runs, but they are not Wichita State (who most people recognize as a national name in college baseball and nothing else).

My fault, I was looking at info that is a year old: http://www.furmanpaladins.com/sports/m-soccer/2011-12/MSRecordBook11.pdf

Not trying to split hairs, just stating that GSU baseball is recognized beyond the SoCon and losing them would result in a noticeable hit in the conference's most nationally respected sport.

[PaladinFan]

My fault, I was looking at info that is a year old: http://www.furmanpaladins.com/sports/m-soccer/2011-12/MSRecordBook11.pdf

Not trying to split hairs, just stating that GSU baseball is recognized beyond the SoCon and losing them would result in a noticeable hit in the conference's most nationally respected sport.

Fair enough. I'm not even a soccer fan (I had to look it up too). I do know that the 2002 team had both Dempsey and Clark, and basically made the rest of the SoCon look like they were playing on their knees. Those late 90s/early 2000s teams set a NCAA record with 46 consecutive matches without a defeat in the conference and the 2002 team set a NCAA record with 11 consecutive shutouts. It was like watching the Harlem Globetrotters of men's soccer that season.

[blueballs]

Georgia Southern baseball has been to two college world series.

Neither of which were as a member of the SoCon...

[AshevilleApp2]

Neither of which were as a member of the SoCon...

We're claiming them anyway. Along with the football National Championships you won prior to membership.