WAC not dead yet? Making play for Big Sky schools?

[MplsBison]

Interesting little blurb:

http://www.wacsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10100&ATCLID=205422187


"The Western Athletic Conference Board of Directors is well aware of the changing landscape in Division I athletics and has been in discussion about it for the last several weeks.

Further, it continues to evaluate the impact upon the WAC and is closely engaged in evaluating its membership options. It will not speculate relative to those options, but it has confidence that the WAC will maintain its more than 50-year history as a preeminent Division I conference."

Looks like they're going to give it a shot, at least for Seattle, Denver, New Mexico State and Idaho's sake.

If you can get to 6 football/8 bball - at least you have a fighting chance.


But the only realistic options are Big Sky schools that have the desire to move up.

So right there you have Portland St and Sac St. Need two more.


Weber has the facilities to support FBS and pretty decent bball. They're not Utah St in that regard, but not bad and keeps at least a foot in the SLC door.

From there, Northern Arizona has a big enough stadium to support FBS.


This of course assuming that Montana schools wouldn't be interested. But obviously they'd be the prize.

Could be a once in a generation opportunity to get into FBS ball.


NDSU would be stupid to pass up the opportunity, but I don't think it's coming due to being Central time zone.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm surprised Lenn Robbins and Brett McMurphy haven't picked this up yet!

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com
http://www.college-sports-journal.com

[darell1976]

Do these schools really want to move into this conference? Its like moving from the Big Sky to the GWFC. What is the prize for moving to the WAC??

[TheBisonator]

At least JBB isn't on this board anymore. But I still have to deal with the likes of Mpls and Lakes...

[MplsBison]

Do these schools really want to move into this conference? Its like moving from the Big Sky to the GWFC. What is the prize for moving to the WAC??

No, it's like moving from the Big Sky to the FBS.

You can't just decide to do that. The school has to receive an invitation from an establish FBS conference, like the WAC. In other words, could be a once in a generation opportunity.

Portland, Sac, NAU and Weber could all make the move.

[laxVik]

I don't see the viks ever being FBS material. We can't even get a 10K average at home. Fickle sports town, Portland. When the ducks sucked and PSU was D2 - that was our heyday.

[MplsBison]

I don't see the viks ever being FBS material. We can't even get a 10K average at home. Fickle sports town, Portland. When the ducks sucked and PSU was D2 - that was our heyday.

But your stadium is FBS all the way and you're right in Oregon's only relevant market. That you can't deny.

[danefan]

But your stadium is FBS all the way and you're right in Oregon's only relevant market. That you can't deny.

And if expansion to date tells us anything so far - its media market is driving a lot of these decisions. Not attendance or on field success.

[TheRevSFA]

But your stadium is FBS all the way and you're right in Oregon's only relevant market. That you can't deny.

Don't they play in a soccer stadium/minor league baseball stadium?

[Sycamore51]

I wonder if they have looked at teams like Missouri State or some Southland teams too? I think the WAC would take anybody west of the the Mississippi at this point. If I were the WAC, I would try hard to get in the ear of the western MVFC schools and maybe even SIU too. Mix that with some Southland teams and you have a WAC that runs the length of the great plains, still west in footprint, but not as far west as the original.

Missouri St.
NDSU
SDSU
NMSU
UNI
Idaho
Mcneese
Sam Houston

This would be a strip right down the middle and I think better than adding a lot of Cali schools and pacific northwest schools.

[TheBisonator]

I've been reading too many stupid people's posts on message boards the past few days, and it has really started to make me naseous.

[darell1976]

No, it's like moving from the Big Sky to the FBS.

You can't just decide to do that. The school has to receive an invitation from an establish FBS conference, like the WAC. In other words, could be a once in a generation opportunity.

Portland, Sac, NAU and Weber could all make the move.

Like Montana did only to see its their best interest to stay put.....smart move Montana!!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I've been reading too many stupid people's posts on message boards the past few days, and it has really started to make me naseous.

+1 Rep points

[laxVik]

But your stadium is FBS all the way and you're right in Oregon's only relevant market. That you can't deny.I fail to see 20K at home against New Mexico State. It'd be like the WFL when Portland had a team in the 80's. 20K the first game, then 15, then 10, then...

[TheRevSFA]

And if expansion to date tells us anything so far - its media market is driving a lot of these decisions. Not attendance or on field success.

Mpls is going to say that the WAC doesn't have a choice..

I highly doubt the Montanas go.

But hey, Lamar wants so badly out of the SLC that the WAC would have a school

[darell1976]

I wonder if they have looked at teams like Missouri State or some Southland teams too? I think the WAC would take anybody west of the the Mississippi at this point. If I were the WAC, I would try hard to get in the ear of the western MVFC schools and maybe even SIU too. Mix that with some Southland teams and you have a WAC that runs the length of the great plains, still west in footprint, but not as far west as the original.

Missouri St.
NDSU
SDSU
NMSU
UNI
Idaho
Mcneese
Sam Houston

This would be a strip right down the middle and I think better than adding a lot of Cali schools and pacific northwest schools.

UND is already a WAC member for swimming/diving...hell give UND a call. Of course UND will say no.

[laxVik]

Don't they play in a soccer stadium/minor league baseball stadium?Used to be a dump. Now it's quite nice...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/eb/Jeldwenfield2011.png/800px-Jeldwenfield2011.png

[TheRevSFA]

Used to be a dump. Now it's quite nice...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/eb/Jeldwenfield2011.png/800px-Jeldwenfield2011.png

That does look pretty nice. Good job Viks.

[asumike83]

Used to be a dump. Now it's quite nice...

I like it! What's the capacity?

[Sycamore51]

I've been reading too many stupid people's posts on message boards the past few days, and it has really started to make me naseous.

The sad thing is that there are no stupid posts anymore. Conference's make no sense anymore and people are moving up, moving east, and moving west. As dumb as some posts sound, none of them are out of the mix anymore.

[TheRevSFA]

I wonder if they have looked at teams like Missouri State or some Southland teams too? I think the WAC would take anybody west of the the Mississippi at this point. If I were the WAC, I would try hard to get in the ear of the western MVFC schools and maybe even SIU too. Mix that with some Southland teams and you have a WAC that runs the length of the great plains, still west in footprint, but not as far west as the original.

Missouri St.
NDSU
SDSU
NMSU
UNI
Idaho
Mcneese
Sam Houston

This would be a strip right down the middle and I think better than adding a lot of Cali schools and pacific northwest schools.

I strongly doubt McNeese would move up...especially to the WAC. They'd want in the Belt to get back at USL...but they seem to be pretty happy with the status quo

[Sycamore51]

I strongly doubt McNeese would move up...especially to the WAC. They'd want in the Belt to get back at USL...but they seem to be pretty happy with the status quo

I don't think that any of those schools would jump to the WAC, I'm just saying who I would contact if I were comish of the WAC. You're not going to get a current FBS member, so I'd try this group to make a move right down the middle of the plains.

[laxVik]

I like it! What's the capacity?20K I think. Expandable to 23K.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Let's get serious, people. Brett McMurphy of CBS wrote the WAC's epitaph a couple of days ago. So it must be true the WAC is dead.

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[asumike83]

Let's get serious, people. Brett McMurphy of CBS wrote the WAC's epitaph a couple of days ago. So it must be true the WAC is dead.

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

They are on life support and absolutely grasping at straws at this point. They won't die without a fight but unless they can convince a number of western FCS programs to move up, I do not see how they can continue as a football conference.

[CrazyCat]

What does the WAC have to offer ? All the reasons from a couple years ago such as an ESPN contract or chance at some bowl revenue have left the building.

[darell1976]

What does the WAC have to offer ? All the reasons from a couple years ago such as an ESPN contract or chance at some bowl revenue have left the building.

Being on the NCAA Football game for PS3/Xbox without using the Teambuilder option. Other than that I can't think of anything.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

They are on life support and absolutely grasping at straws at this point. They won't die without a fight but unless they can convince a number of western FCS programs to move up, I do not see how they can continue as a football conference.

Oh I don't disagree about that. They're clearly a conference in trouble and I don't see that there's an easy way out.

But to write the epitaph already, when there's still a commissioner, teams - nobody sees anything wrong with that?

More importantly, what's the difference between that and what MplsBison is doing here?

[aceinthehole]

Oh I don't disagree about that. They're clearly a conference in trouble and I don't see that there's an easy way out.

But to write the epitaph already, when there's still a commissioner, teams - nobody sees anything wrong with that?

More importantly, what's the difference between that and what MplsBison is doing here?

Mpls is a lone-wolf fan posting his own version of reality on a fan-based message board. Personally, I think he may be certifiably crazy and his opinions are often mind boggling, but he never pretends to 'report' anything or sell himself as a journalist. He posts his own personal manifestos for the world to read (or ignore).

LFN, you on the other hand, have been called out for trying to smear other national columnists in your "articles." You keep putting Len Robbins and Brent McMurphy together like they are co-conspirators in some plot against the FCS way of life. McMurphy has been spot on and his sources have been very accurate.

This is an evolving story and now all of a sudden you are only concerned about collecting press releases from conference commissioners. EVERYONE agrees what is going on with conference realignment is first happening behind the scenes, only then when the deal is done does it become "official."

The biggests difference beween what most of us are doing on this message board and what McMurphy is doning is very clear to most observers.

Posters here (me, henfan, you, and even MPLS) are just sharing opinions, theories, proposals, etc. That is fine, it's why we are all here. No one to my knowledge here has claimed to have talked to and reported what either schools official or conference officials have told them personally.

Brett McMurphy has actual sources and all his reports have been very accurate. So I have to ask why you keep questioning his work?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN, you on the other hand, have been called out for trying to point out that their breathless reports of dead conferences and dated deadlines for moves have been incorrect. You keep putting Len Robbins and Brent McMurphy together like they are reporting the same incorrect information. McMurphy has been incorrect on several key points of his accusations and his sources have not been completely correct.

This is an evolving story and now all of a sudden you are only concerned about collecting press releases from conference commissioners. EVERYONE agrees what is going on with conference realignment is first happening behind the scenes, only then when the deal is done does it become "official." Except Messrs. McMurphy and Robbins, of course, who are reporting teams leaving for other conferences and specifying dates for such moves and writing epitaphs for conferences that currently still have commissioners and members.

Brett McMurphy has sources with agendas and all his reports have been leaked in such a way that the moves are portrayed as a fait accompli, when as you yourself mention it is a developing story.

Fixed it all up for you. And I didn't even mention Robbins' latest article which claims Richmond is in the CAA and helping to pull together a new eastern-based conference in all sports.

[Hambone]

I wonder if they have looked at teams like Missouri State or some Southland teams too? I think the WAC would take anybody west of the the Mississippi at this point. If I were the WAC, I would try hard to get in the ear of the western MVFC schools and maybe even SIU too. Mix that with some Southland teams and you have a WAC that runs the length of the great plains, still west in footprint, but not as far west as the original.

Missouri St.
NDSU
SDSU
NMSU
UNI
Idaho
Mcneese
Sam Houston

This would be a strip right down the middle and I think better than adding a lot of Cali schools and pacific northwest schools.

While your logic is sound for the most part, you're forgetting about the non-football members of the WAC - Seattle, Denver, Boise State. They wouldn't likely enjoy having a conference shift to a strip right down the plains. But, not a bad thought all things considered (although you could likely throw UND and USD in that mix just as easily as the Southland teams).

[MplsBison]

I personally think the Montana schools are too stubborn. Don't think they'll accept. Dakotas are too far out of the picture, geographically.

So I would like to hear from fans of Weber, NAU, Portland St and Sac St. All have at least 15k stadiums. All except NAU are in important west region markets and NAU could be considered somewhat close to PHX and Las Vegas. Plus there are only three DI schools in Arizona.

What say you, Big Sky members?

[I Bleed Purple]

Weber State is not moving to FBS. Will never happen.

[aceinthehole]

Fixed it all up for you. And I didn't even mention Robbins' latest article which claims Richmond is in the CAA and helping to pull together a new eastern-based conference in all sports.

First, I do agree that Robbins's reporting is very poorly written, and apparently he has poor sources. I would guess he is overplaying whatever information he may have been given. Although he was accurate on the Butler move, it appears the GMU/VCU moves were not a certain and need more time to be negotiated. I do think his credibility for current and future "scoops" come with some well-deserved skepticism.

However, I fully disagree with your characterization of McMurphy. Furthermore, you have provided no factual ,or even reasonable support (other than your personal opinion), that McMurphy has "sources with agendas and all his reports have been leaked in such a way that the moves are portrayed as a fait accompli." McMurphy is reporting many more scoops and there is a huge difference when he cites his own "sources have told CBS Sports" or when just references published reports from other news outlets.

[TheRevSFA]

Weber State is not moving to FBS. Will never happen.

But..but..I bet Weber grills would sponsor it

[dgtw]

They are on life support and absolutely grasping at straws at this point. They won't die without a fight but unless they can convince a number of western FCS programs to move up, I do not see how they can continue as a football conference.

The problem is they have to get at least five or six teams to move up.If they just needed one or two, they might be able to convince someone, but finding that many to take the leap will be difficult.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I personally think the Montana schools are too stubborn. Don't think they'll accept. Dakotas are too far out of the picture, geographically.

So I would like to hear from fans of Weber, NAU, Portland St and Sac St. All have at least 15k stadiums. All except NAU are in important west region markets and NAU could be considered somewhat close to PHX and Las Vegas. Plus there are only three DI schools in Arizona.

What say you, Big Sky members?

You may not be up on this. The WAC, when it was a lot more stable than it is now had approached 6 BSC teams and they were turned down by all of them. I think that will give you some idea of what say them. Those schools you are mentioning have already said no once so I don't know what they (WAC) could offer now that would make this more attractive to the schools especially since a TV deal making it more lucrative for BSC members was signed in the interim.

If someone were to go I would put more stock in Cal Poly, UCD, and Sac than anyone you've mentioned outside of that.

PSU is alluring because of market but they already said no so that's pretty shaky I think. Hell, it's all just grasping at straws that have already dropped on the floor, and fell down a drain pipe anyway.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I personally think the Montana schools are too stubborn. Don't think they'll accept. Dakotas are too far out of the picture, geographically.

So I would like to hear from fans of Weber, NAU, Portland St and Sac St. All have at least 15k stadiums. All except NAU are in important west region markets and NAU could be considered somewhat close to PHX and Las Vegas. Plus there are only three DI schools in Arizona.

What say you, Big Sky members?

You may not be up on this. The WAC, when it was a lot more stable than it is now had approached 6 BSC teams and they were turned down by all of them. I think that will give you some idea of what say them. Those schools you are mentioning have already said no once so I don't know what they (WAC) could offer now that would make this more attractive to the schools especially since a TV deal making it more lucrative for BSC members was signed in the interim.

If someone were to go I would put more stock in Cal Poly, UCD, and Sac than anyone you've mentioned outside of that.

PSU is alluring because of market but they already said no so that's pretty shaky I think. Hell, it's all just grasping at straws that have already dropped on the floor, and fell down a drain pipe anyway.

[asumike83]

You may not be up on this. The WAC, when it was a lot more stable than it is now had approached 6 BSC teams and they were turned down by all of them. I think that will give you some idea of what say them. Those schools you are mentioning have already said no once so I don't know what they (WAC) could offer now that would make this more attractive to the schools especially since a TV deal making it more lucrative for BSC members was signed in the interim.

If someone were to go I would put more stock in Cal Poly, UCD, and Sac than anyone you've mentioned outside of that.

PSU is alluring because of market but they already said no so that's pretty shaky I think. Hell, it's all just grasping at straws that have already dropped on the floor, and fell down a drain pipe anyway.

Not that it is any different than the first time around but if that many BSC teams accepted at one time, it would pretty much a conference move up for the Big Sky. If nothing else, travel would be very feasible. Still don't think it works though, it would be hard to convince half a dozen schools to fund all those extra scholarships and in some cases, extra sports.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

First, I do agree that Robbins's reporting is very poorly written, and apparently he has poor sources. I would guess he is overplaying whatever information he may have been given. Although he was accurate on the Butler move, it appears the GMU/VCU moves were not a certain and need more time to be negotiated. I do think his credibility for current and future "scoops" come with some well-deserved skepticism.

However, I fully disagree with your characterization of McMurphy. Furthermore, you have provided no factual ,or even reasonable support (other than your personal opinion), that McMurphy has "sources with agendas and all his reports have been leaked in such a way that the moves are portrayed as a fait accompli." McMurphy is reporting many more scoops and there is a huge difference when he cites his own "sources have told CBS Sports" or when just references published reports from other news outlets.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/brett-mcmurphy/18923863/conference-usa-reloading-by-adding-6-schools


Conference USA, which has four schools departing to the Big East next season, is reloading by adding six schools in 2013, industry sources told CBSSports.com. Florida International, Louisiana Tech, North Texas, Texas San Antonio, Charlotte and Old Dominion will join C-USA giving the league 14 members.

True? Or not? ODU is not in C-USA at this point. Which is substantiated by McMurphy's own tweet on the matter today:


ODU spokesperson says no press conference on Friday & school will not comment further on ODU's future conference plans

The fact that the other five schools have planned press conferences tomorrow, but not ODU, speaks volumes.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/brett-mcmurphy/18045227/vcu-george-mason-butler-in-discussions-to-join-atlantic-10


VCU, George Mason and Butler have had discussions with the Atlantic 10 and indicated to the league they have potential interest in joining for the 2013-14 school year, sources told CBSSports.com.

The addition of VCU, George Mason and Butler would be huge for the A-10. The league would be getting three schools that have made a combined four Final Four appearances since 2006. VCU went to the 2011 Final Four and George Mason to the 2006 Final Four.

One reason VCU, George Mason and Butler are interested in a move to the Atlantic 10 is that those programs currently reside in “one-bid” leagues. Most seasons if they don't win their conference tournament, they usually don't earn an NCAA tournament at-large berth. However, the A-10 has received multiple NCAA bids for five consecutive seasons.

True? Or not? Nobody's doubting that Mason and VCU have talked about it - they clearly have. But "interested in a move to the Atlantic Ten" and "had discussions about it" are two very different things. There's a heaping amount of opinion thrown in there in what is ostensibly a straight report. The first statement is true. But whom did he talk to about VCU and Mason's interest? There is no reference to that, just "sources".

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/18912164/onceproud-and-large-wac-on-its-death-bed-and-thats-a-shame


The WAC is on its death bed as an FBS conference. If you're a friend of the WAC, you still have 13 months to pay your last respects. Before long it will be time to read the WAC its last rites. Go ahead and start carving the tombstone.

True? Or not? I agree things don't look good. But calling them dead when they're still a conference, with a commissioner and schools are still a part of the conference? Can anyone really rule out the WAC surviving? I can't. Neither can Brett McMurphy.

There are things I read from McMurphy, and I think he's getting good information for some of his reports. I have no reason to disbelieve that the WAC schools that have been picked off by other conferences isn't true, and I haven't called him out for that particular information he's put out there because I have no idea. The A-10/ODU/CAA stuff, on the other hand, is different.

But the question you need to ask is,who have an interest in announcing ODU as a fait accompli before it's completely final?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Not that it is any different than the first time around but if that many BSC teams accepted at one time, it would pretty much a conference move up for the Big Sky. If nothing else, travel would be very feasible. Still don't think it works though, it would be hard to convince half a dozen schools to fund all those extra scholarships and in some cases, extra sports.

Those schools don't have that thing that prompts a lot of fans to think they need some notoriety that is claimed FBS would give them. At least I don't see it clamored for by the fans. The schools just don't seem to be interested in the upheaval and additional cost of FBS football and without MT and MSU going it would be a good detraction on the fan interest and ticket level because the biggest home games every year are the Montana & MSU road games at their stadiums.

Not saying that is a huge detraction but at that point you would be trading one game that is sure to be a revenue producer at home for one that may not eclipse that mark.

MT & MSU also provide those teams with a big part of the TV money they get every year so unless the WAC has some way to make up for that along with a way to make up for the other additional costs then it seems less likely to happen outside of MT & MSU being part of it.

[aceinthehole]

True? Or not? ODU is not in C-USA at this point. Which is substantiated by McMurphy's own tweet on the matter today:

The fact that the other five schools have planned press conferences tomorrow, but not ODU, speaks volumes.

True? Or not? Nobody's doubting that Mason and VCU have talked about it - they clearly have. But "interested in a move to the Atlantic Ten" and "had discussions about it" are two very different things. There's a heaping amount of opinion thrown in there in what is ostensibly a straight report. The first statement is true. But whom did he talk to about VCU and Mason's interest? There is no reference to that, just "sources".

True? Or not? I agree things don't look good. But calling them dead when they're still a conference, with a commissioner and schools are still a part of the conference? Can anyone really rule out the WAC surviving? I can't. Neither can Brett McMurphy.

There are things I read from McMurphy, and I think he's getting good information for some of his reports. I have no reason to disbelieve that the WAC schools that have been picked off by other conferences isn't true, and I haven't called him out for that particular information he's put out there because I have no idea. The A-10/ODU/CAA stuff, on the other hand, is different.

But the question you need to ask is,who have an interest in announcing ODU as a fait accompli before it's completely final?

Again, just because something hasn't happened YET, doesn't mean he is feeding us lies.

ODU has a legal, financial, and some would say ethical responsibility to wait to confirm this story. A "no comment" from a spokesperson is neither a denial or admission. McMurphy's story is still in progress. He is very specific to say:

However, it's not clear how soon after 2013 Charlotte, which is beginning its football program in 2013, and ODU, currently in the FCS, would be able to compete as a C-USA football member.

An official announcement could come as early as Friday, sources said.


As for GMU/VCU, how is "interested in a move to the Atlantic Ten" and "had discussions about it" are two very different things? They are interested and have had discussions! The CAA Commissiner has admitted that CAA teams hare having ongoing discussions with other conferences. Clearly, those discussions have not led to an legal and binding agreement yet, but no one from GMU/VCU has come out to tell us the talks have ended. Again, it is a ongoing negotiation.

As for the WAC obit, it seems very logical that a conference which will be down to 2 members (for the 2013-14 season is not likely to survive. Again, it's possible that they could add teams, but it us extremely unlikely. But there is nothing here to suggest he is improperly influencing the landscape of college football and conference realignment.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As for GMU/VCU, how is "interested in a move to the Atlantic Ten" and "had discussions about it" are two very different things? They are interested and have had discussions! The CAA Commissiner has admitted that CAA teams hare having ongoing discussions with other conferences. Clearly, those discussions have not led to an legal and binding agreement yet, but no one from GMU/VCU has come out to tell us the talks have ended. Again, it is a ongoing negotiation.

I am interested in winning the lottery. I've discussed this fact with my wife. I've discussed this fact with others, including people who sell me lottery tickets. This does not mean that I am going to win the lottery.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As for the WAC obit, it seems very logical that a conference which will be down to 2 members (for the 2013-14 season) is not likely to survive. Again, it's possible that they could add teams, but it us extremely unlikely. But there is nothing here to suggest he is improperly influencing the landscape of college football and conference realignment.

So let me get this straight: he's not doing anything wrong about writing an obituary and publishing it while the victim is still alive, and for all I know could miraculously recover? Does nobody read his articles? Recruits? College football fans?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Again, just because something hasn't happened YET, doesn't mean he is feeding us lies. ODU has a legal, financial, and some would say ethical responsibility to wait to confirm this story. A "no comment" from a spokesperson is neither a denial or admission. McMurphy's story is still in progress.

You don't think his assertion that "C-USA is adding six members" could be incorrect when five of those members are announcing press conferences tomorrow, yet ODU is not, and won't confirm or deny anything?

You'll note that I didn't doubt one word about UNCC, North Texas, or any number of Sun Belt/WAC moves to C-USA. Only the ODU portion.

Taken with the whole thing about GMU/VCU making a decision by May 1st, and that deadline came and went, and both VCU and Mason folks have said publicly they would recommend delaying a year at least to make any decisions, and I think it's reasonable to be suspicious.

[aceinthehole]

I am interested in winning the lottery. I've discussed this fact with my wife. I've discussed this fact with others, including people who sell me lottery tickets. This does not mean that I am going to win the lottery.

Thanks for this. :) It really shows the intellectual thought you have put into your critique of McMurphy.

The problem with your poor analogy here is that your "discussions" with your wife, others and the lottery retailers have NO EFFECT on your odds of winning. You cannot negotiate a contract with those people that would achieve your purpose to win the lotto.

No one but you are disputing that GMU/VCU are currently in discussions and negotiations with officials from the A-10 that have the ability to result in an agreement for GMU/VCU to join the A-10 as members. Furthermore, according to McMurphy's source with involved with these discussions, the odds of them joining the A-10 are very high, but not absolutely certain.

This is excellent reporting based on his sources, not hearsay or speculation. What are you failing to comprehend here?

[aceinthehole]

So let me get this straight: he's not doing anything wrong about writing an obituary and publishing it while the victim is still alive, and for all I know could miraculously recover? Does nobody read his articles? Recruits? College football fans?

The "victim" is a membership organization of universities (not a person), of which just 2 FBS members will remain next season. The NCAA requirements to be a "conference" and hold an AQ to NCAA championships makes this current situation dire and the potential for recovery is miniscule. It is no different than when reports from the WSJ suggested that ENRON was doomed to collapse once reports of fraud had been confirmed.

The fact is 6 of the 8 football playing members are leaving after this year and with just 2 more basketball schools, the odds of keeping any of their AQ to NCAA Championships is all but gone. You can write a blog suggesting a plan to rebuild the WAC, but it would be fiction without talking to any potential new members of this league. Therefore, I would say McMurphy's article was fair and accurate portal of the situation as it stands today.

[dbackjon]

NAU has a FBS level stadium?

Did it get built in the last two weeks?

Yes, we can hold Eastern Michigan's crowd, maybe Ball State's, but awfully hard to fit 15K plus in a dome that seats 10K.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

NAU has a FBS level stadium?

Did it get built in the last two weeks?

Yes, we can hold Eastern Michigan's crowd, maybe Ball State's, but awfully hard to fit 15K plus in a dome that seats 10K.

Dude, there's lots of beams and so forth in there that seats can be hung from. Stop thinking small.

http://www.animatedknots.com/photos/swing/swingR13.jpg

[aceinthehole]

You don't think his assertion that "C-USA is adding six members" could be incorrect when five of those members are announcing press conferences tomorrow, yet ODU is not, and won't confirm or deny anything? .

No. It is not incorrect. The other schools are ready to make their announcment. ODU isn't ready yet, period. They may be ready Monday, or they may be ready on July 1, or later.


Taken with the whole thing about GMU/VCU making a decision by May 1st, and that deadline came and went, and both VCU and Mason folks have said publicly they would recommend delaying a year at least to make any decisions, and I think it's reasonable to be suspicious.

Again, you are directly linking McMurphy and Robbins for no reason. McMurphy NEVER reported May 1 as a done deal date - that was Robbins!

[dbackjon]

Dude, there's lots of beams and so forth in there that seats can be hung from. Stop thinking small.

http://www.animatedknots.com/photos/swing/swingR13.jpg

Or we could ban fans with fats asses like Z - if we limited fans to 130 lbs or less, we could double the capacity - two per seat!

[Silenoz]

Idaho
New Mexico State
Portland State
Weber State
Northern Arizona
Sac State


Yeah, I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for that conference to come together

[bojeta]

You may not be up on this. The WAC, when it was a lot more stable than it is now had approached 6 BSC teams and they were turned down by all of them. I think that will give you some idea of what say them. Those schools you are mentioning have already said no once so I don't know what they (WAC) could offer now that would make this more attractive to the schools especially since a TV deal making it more lucrative for BSC members was signed in the interim.

If someone were to go I would put more stock in Cal Poly, UCD, and Sac than anyone you've mentioned outside of that.

PSU is alluring because of market but they already said no so that's pretty shaky I think. Hell, it's all just grasping at straws that have already dropped on the floor, and fell down a drain pipe anyway.

Cal Poly and Davis were already approached prior to accepting the Big Sky invite. They turned down the WAC as well.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Cal Poly and Davis were already approached prior to accepting the Big Sky invite. They turned down the WAC as well.

I had thought that was the case and they may be in the six I remember from a while back but wasn't sure.

Hey, did you get the last pm reply? Just wanted to check here in case you don't have notifications turned on.

[bojeta]

I had thought that was the case and they may be in the six I remember from a while back but wasn't sure.

Hey, did you get the last pm reply? Just wanted to check here in case you don't have notifications turned on.

I do have notifications turned on, but somehow missed that last message. Anyhow, I just sent a message two members that would make great reps for Cal Poly. I will add their names as soon as I get a reply.

[MplsBison]

NAU has a FBS level stadium?

Did it get built in the last two weeks?

Yes, we can hold Eastern Michigan's crowd, maybe Ball State's, but awfully hard to fit 15K plus in a dome that seats 10K.

xeyebrowx

http://www.nauathletics.com/information/facilities/skydome

2nd paragraph:


The Skydome has been the home of NAU football, basketball and indoor track and field since 1977. Construction began in the fall of 1975, and the facility was completed in September 1977. Seating capacity for football is 15,300 and 7,000 for basketball.

[MplsBison]

Idaho
New Mexico State
Portland State
Weber State
Northern Arizona
Sac State


Yeah, I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for that conference to come together

Desperate times.

[MplsBison]

Those schools don't have that thing that prompts a lot of fans to think they need some notoriety that is claimed FBS would give them. At least I don't see it clamored for by the fans. The schools just don't seem to be interested in the upheaval and additional cost of FBS football and without MT and MSU going it would be a good detraction on the fan interest and ticket level because the biggest home games every year are the Montana & MSU road games at their stadiums.

Not saying that is a huge detraction but at that point you would be trading one game that is sure to be a revenue producer at home for one that may not eclipse that mark.

MT & MSU also provide those teams with a big part of the TV money they get every year so unless the WAC has some way to make up for that along with a way to make up for the other additional costs then it seems less likely to happen outside of MT & MSU being part of it.

Speak for yourself. That's about all you can do.

[MplsBison]

You may not be up on this. The WAC, when it was a lot more stable than it is now had approached 6 BSC teams and they were turned down by all of them. I think that will give you some idea of what say them. Those schools you are mentioning have already said no once so I don't know what they (WAC) could offer now that would make this more attractive to the schools especially since a TV deal making it more lucrative for BSC members was signed in the interim.

If someone were to go I would put more stock in Cal Poly, UCD, and Sac than anyone you've mentioned outside of that.

PSU is alluring because of market but they already said no so that's pretty shaky I think. Hell, it's all just grasping at straws that have already dropped on the floor, and fell down a drain pipe anyway.

(wasn't sure which of these identical posts I should reply to, so I went with the 2nd one)

The fact remains: if any Big Sky school *ever* wants to play FBS football, it must receive an invitation from an established FBS conference. There is no moving up on your own. There is no moving up as a Big Sky conference.

The WAC may not be an attractive option, but it is an established FBS conference that can pull any Big Sky team that so chooses up to the FBS level. Any of the schools I mentioned would meet the FBS smell test, in terms of market and stadium. The ability to tell recruits that they'll receive a full scholarship and be playing at the FBS level will open a new level of players to these schools as well.

The situation is a little bit different now. This could be a once in a generation opportunity.

It's worth a 2nd thought.

[FargoBison]

The only thing that can save the WAC is the Montana schools and they said no.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Speak for yourself. That's about all you can do.

No, you don't, neither will I.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

(wasn't sure which of these identical posts I should reply to, so I went with the 2nd one)

The fact remains: if any Big Sky school *ever* wants to play FBS football, it must receive an invitation from an established FBS conference. There is no moving up on your own. There is no moving up as a Big Sky conference.

The WAC may not be an attractive option, but it is an established FBS conference that can pull any Big Sky team that so chooses up to the FBS level. Any of the schools I mentioned would meet the FBS smell test, in terms of market and stadium. The ability to tell recruits that they'll receive a full scholarship and be playing at the FBS level will open a new level of players to these schools as well.

The situation is a little bit different now. This could be a once in a generation opportunity.

It's worth a 2nd thought.

A different level of players? Did the WAC suddenly go BCS? The level of players at the level you are discussing is not any higher than the level those schools see now. Now they would have to find a way to pay for a few more of them but it's no better.

Problem with the other part of your diatribe is that those schools didn't want to go FBS even when the option was more attractive them and now you think it's some big opportunity?

Good one.

Is it impossible, certainly not. Is it likely, I think not since the WAC has even less to offer now except that the Texas Schools are out and the footprint could be the attraction. If that were the attraction I'd be pretty surprised since the footprint would be missing a lot of toes.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

(wasn't sure which of these identical posts I should reply to, so I went with the 2nd one)



Oh, and I'm sorry to hear the board slipped or took a minute to put the post up and doubled. I know that can be really confusing to you. FWIW, I think you made the correct choice in the 2nd one.

[UAalum72]

Idaho
New Mexico State
Portland State
Weber State
Northern Arizona
Sac State


Yeah, I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for that conference to come together
It's not enough. To stay FBS, a conference needs eight teams.

20.02.6 Football Bowl Subdivision Conference.

A conference classified as a Football Bowl Subdivision conference shall be comprised of at least eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members that satisfy all bowl subdivision requirements. An institution shall be included as one of the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members only if the institution participates in the conference schedule in at least six men's and eight women's conference-sponsored sports, including men's basketball and football and three women's team sports including women's basketball. A conference-sponsored sport shall be a sport in which regular season and/or championship opportunities are provided, consistent with the minimum standards identified by the applicable NCAA sport committee for automatic qualification. (Adopted: 10/31/02 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

[MplsBison]

A different level of players? Did the WAC suddenly go BCS? The level of players at the level you are discussing is not any higher than the level those schools see now. Now they would have to find a way to pay for a few more of them but it's no better.

Problem with the other part of your diatribe is that those schools didn't want to go FBS even when the option was more attractive them and now you think it's some big opportunity?

Good one.

Is it impossible, certainly not. Is it likely, I think not since the WAC has even less to offer now except that the Texas Schools are out and the footprint could be the attraction. If that were the attraction I'd be pretty surprised since the footprint would be missing a lot of toes.

Yes it's different. Recruits know FBS vs. FCS, that one is the major leagues and one is the minor leagues. They want to have that FBS label attached to them.

The WAC offers an opportunity to have an entry level FBS conference. End. That alone is worth consideration.

[MplsBison]

It's not enough. To stay FBS, a conference needs eight teams.

20.02.6 Football Bowl Subdivision Conference.

A conference classified as a Football Bowl Subdivision conference shall be comprised of at least eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members that satisfy all bowl subdivision requirements. An institution shall be included as one of the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members only if the institution participates in the conference schedule in at least six men's and eight women's conference-sponsored sports, including men's basketball and football and three women's team sports including women's basketball. A conference-sponsored sport shall be a sport in which regular season and/or championship opportunities are provided, consistent with the minimum standards identified by the applicable NCAA sport committee for automatic qualification. (Adopted: 10/31/02 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

Thanks for posting that. Good point.

I guess they would need all of those AND the Montana schools to make it work. Probably not going to happen.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yes it's different. Recruits know FBS vs. FCS, that one is the major leagues and one is the minor leagues. They want to have that FBS label attached to them.

The WAC offers an opportunity to have an entry level FBS conference. End. That alone is worth consideration.

Who gives a **** if some players want it attached to them? It doesn't mean a thing. If the better players were going there wouldn't Idaho have a better record against it's former BSC foes than it had while they were in the BSC?

You can perceive that they are better players if you'd like. It is not backed up by reality. If Idaho had 22 extra schollies and almost all home games in their 12 as a BSC member then I would surely expect their record to be better than 7-5. All but two of those games they won were absolute down to the wire nail biters.

Are those the results you get with the better players you are referring to?

Do you have any more cogent information on endowments and so forth? I can't wait because those are great point makers.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The "victim" is a membership organization of universities (not a person), of which just 2 FBS members will remain next season. The NCAA requirements to be a "conference" and hold an AQ to NCAA championships makes this current situation dire and the potential for recovery is miniscule. It is no different than when reports from the WSJ suggested that ENRON was doomed to collapse once reports of fraud had been confirmed.

The fact is 6 of the 8 football playing members are leaving after this year and with just 2 more basketball schools, the odds of keeping any of their AQ to NCAA Championships is all but gone. You can write a blog suggesting a plan to rebuild the WAC, but it would be fiction without talking to any potential new members of this league. Therefore, I would say McMurphy's article was fair and accurate portal of the situation as it stands today.

A fair and accurate portrayal of the situation is that their situation is dire. Not that they are dead.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

No. It is not incorrect. The other schools are ready to make their announcment. ODU isn't ready yet, period. They may be ready Monday, or they may be ready on July 1, or later.

Or never.

A fair and accurate portrayal of the situation days ago with C-USA signing teams is that there's a high probablility that new members are going to join. Not to report specifically that six teams are joining, if the actual number ends up being five. Or four. Or three.


Again, you are directly linking McMurphy and Robbins for no reason. McMurphy NEVER reported May 1 as a done deal date - that was Robbins!

Interesting how two leaks came out hinting CAA teams about leaving the conference, one giving a specific, incorrect, May 1st date. Interesting, too, how it involved the same two teams.

[Hammerhead]

pre·em·i·nent Adjective:
Surpassing all others; very distinguished in some way.

I'm not sure the WAC fits the definition of preminent. :)

"Further, it continues to evaluate the impact upon the WAC and is closely engaged in evaluating its membership options. It will not speculate relative to those options, but it has confidence that the WAC will maintain its more than 50-year history as a preeminent Division I conference."

[Cocky]

When was required for the media to be truthful?
Most had rather tell a lie than the truth.

[JSUBison]

MPLS' 286 posts on the subject today finally wore me down, and I'll humor the guy. When creating a non-power FBS conference, you can't construct it like the others, because it won't be stable. Needs to have traditional and local rivals who won't be looking to bail ship 3 years down the road. How about this for WAC salvation? I think it can work if someone has 50-80?? million dollars lying around to make it a reality.

WAC
West

Idaho
Montana
Montana State
Nebraska Omaha
New Mexico State
North Dakota State
South Dakota State

East
Appalachian State
Delaware
Florida A&M
Georgia Southern
Jacksonville State
James Madison
Liberty

Only problem is New Mexico State is on an island in the West division. First order of business once this conference forms is to kick NMSU out and get Wichita State on board to tighten the footprint.

Now I'm off to Bisonville to present my reworked Summit League which will sponsor teh hockies. xnutsx

[MSUDuo]

I'd love to see MO State in the WAC as football only.

Keep the rest of the sports in the MVC

[aceinthehole]

A fair and accurate portrayal of the situation is that their situation is dire. Not that they are dead.

So dire and without any realistic proposals supported by facts or sources to suggest it can be "saved." What did he write in that article that was premature or inaccurate?

Do you really think that article is stoping recruits from going to Idaho or NMSU? What disservice is he doing to college football? Does that article prevent any yet-to-be-identified FBS schools from from joining the WAC?

[aceinthehole]

Or never.

A fair and accurate portrayal of the situation days ago with C-USA signing teams is that there's a high probablility that new members are going to join. Not to report specifically that six teams are joining, if the actual number ends up being five. Or four. Or three.

Interesting how two leaks came out hinting CAA teams about leaving the conference, one giving a specific, incorrect, May 1st date. Interesting, too, how it involved the same two teams.

But you don't know if it will only be five. ODU has come out and said they are considering the offer and they (ODU AD, president, trustee, etc) need more time to review and approve the invite. The ODU beat writer has confirmed McMurphy's story and has even provided the details of ODU's timing.


ODU's board of visitors is scheduled to meet May 14. Board members received an email this week from president John Broderick saying the school is studying conference affiliation.

"I have 100 percent faith in John and (athletic director) Wood Selig," one board member said.

If ODU were to begin a transition to FBS in 2013, it would have to notify the NCAA by June 1. A possible sticking point is that announcing an intention to begin a transition in 2013 could compromise ODU's eligibility for the 2012 FCS playoffs.
http://hamptonroads.com/2012/05/five-say-yes-odu-still-says-maybe-conference-usa

You still admit that YOU are jumping to conclusions solely based on 2 separate reports from 2 different reporters. Interesting? On the surface it appears that Robbins had weak sources and provided an incorrect date. McMurphy gave his own story and didn't provide a specific date for the announcement. Why must you link the 2 together in a wild conspiracy theory?

[MplsBison]

Who gives a **** if some players want it attached to them? It doesn't mean a thing. If the better players were going there wouldn't Idaho have a better record against it's former BSC foes than it had while they were in the BSC?

You can perceive that they are better players if you'd like. It is not backed up by reality. If Idaho had 22 extra schollies and almost all home games in their 12 as a BSC member then I would surely expect their record to be better than 7-5. All but two of those games they won were absolute down to the wire nail biters.

Are those the results you get with the better players you are referring to?

Do you have any more cogent information on endowments and so forth? I can't wait because those are great point makers.

Fine, the opportunity to have access to better recruits will be open to them if they move to FBS. It's still up to the coaches to actually land the better recruits. To that, you don't even have grounds for a denial. You're wrong and I won't even care to read your non-response to the issue. FBS equals access to better recruits. Up the coach to pull them in.

And by the way, I love how you put down Idaho out of one side of your mouth while begging on your hands and knees for them to come save the Big Sky and FCS out the other side of your mouth.

[Cocky]

MPLS' 286 posts on the subject today finally wore me down, and I'll humor the guy. When creating a non-power FBS conference, you can't construct it like the others, because it won't be stable. Needs to have traditional and local rivals who won't be looking to bail ship 3 years down the road. How about this for WAC salvation? I think it can work if someone has 50-80?? million dollars lying around to make it a reality.

WAC
West

Idaho
Montana
Montana State
Nebraska Omaha
New Mexico State
North Dakota State
South Dakota State

East
Appalachian State
Delaware
Florida A&M
Georgia Southern
Jacksonville State
James Madison
Liberty

Only problem is New Mexico State is on an island in the West division. First order of business once this conference forms is to kick NMSU out and get Wichita State on board to tighten the footprint.

Now I'm off to Bisonville to present my reworked Summit League which will sponsor teh hockies. xnutsx

A would perfer this over the SB but swap Fl AM with Youngstown.

[darell1976]

MPLS' 286 posts on the subject today finally wore me down, and I'll humor the guy. When creating a non-power FBS conference, you can't construct it like the others, because it won't be stable. Needs to have traditional and local rivals who won't be looking to bail ship 3 years down the road. How about this for WAC salvation? I think it can work if someone has 50-80?? million dollars lying around to make it a reality.

WAC
West

Idaho
Montana
Montana State
Nebraska Omaha
New Mexico State
North Dakota State
South Dakota State

East
Appalachian State
Delaware
Florida A&M
Georgia Southern
Jacksonville State
James Madison
Liberty

Only problem is New Mexico State is on an island in the West division. First order of business once this conference forms is to kick NMSU out and get Wichita State on board to tighten the footprint.

Now I'm off to Bisonville to present my reworked Summit League which will sponsor teh hockies. xnutsx

They dropped football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You still admit that YOU are jumping to conclusions solely based on 2 separate reports from 2 different reporters. Interesting? On the surface it appears that Robbins had weak sources and provided an incorrect date. McMurphy gave his own story and didn't provide a specific date for the announcement. Why must you link the 2 together in a wild conspiracy theory?

Jumping to conclusions? Read my sources again. They refer to people inside ODU's athetic department. So "industry sources" suddenly is a more solid source than the folks who are actually making the decision?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So dire and without any realistic proposals supported by facts or sources to suggest it can be "saved." What did he write in that article that was premature or inaccurate?

Do you really think that article is stoping recruits from going to Idaho or NMSU? What disservice is he doing to college football? Does that article prevent any yet-to-be-identified FBS schools from from joining the WAC?

Oh, please. Let me start the rumor that the NEC "is dead" and will be left with CCSU and Albany and see how your recruiting works out then.

Proposals don't need to be "realistic" (in your own opinion) in order to prematurely call something dead when it's actually not yet. Reporting on the death of the WAC is like reporting that the Red Sox beat the Yankees the other weekend when they were ahead 9-0. The situation was dire for the Yankees - but they scored 14 runs and won. That's why it's irresponsible.

[TheRevSFA]

someone posted on the sam board a rumor that the WAC is looking at SFA, Sam and Lamar.

I strongly doubt that is the case.

(..and this was my 2000th post)

[aceinthehole]

Jumping to conclusions? Read my sources again. They refer to people inside ODU's athetic department. So "industry sources" suddenly is a more solid source than the folks who are actually making the decision?

But, you don't have sources! You are making your own conslusions based on a various press releases and direct quotes from other writer's articles/questions. Where did you interview sources and ask questions directly to back up your story? You know the one where you so strongly conclude that McMurphy is conspiring to "hype" the story of CAA teams leaving based on his own misinformation campaign. Every quote printed from GCU/GMU/ODU sources on the topic clarifies and provides more details, but does not contridct, what McMurphy had wrote.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

But, you don't have sources! You are making your own conslusions based on a various press releases and direct quotes from other writer's articles/questions. Where did you interview sources and ask questions directly to back up your story? You know the one where you so strongly conclude that McMurphy is conspiring to "hype" the story of CAA teams leaving based on his own misinformation campaign. Every quote printed from GCU/GMU/ODU sources on the topic clarifies and provides more details, but does not contridct, what McMurphy had wrote.

You mean it doesn't contradict the fact that he reported that that six teams are leaving, yet one hasn't decided yet, which was confirmed by two ODU guys who talked to people in the athletic department and McMurphy's own Twitter feed?

Incidentally, how is it different from you taking McMurphy's quotes and believing that he's coming down from the mountains with stone proclamations?

[aceinthehole]

Oh, please. Let me start the rumor that the NEC "is dead" and will be left with CCSU and Albany and see how your recruiting works out then.

Proposals don't need to be "realistic" (in your own opinion) in order to prematurely call something dead when it's actually not yet. Reporting on the death of the WAC is like reporting that the Red Sox beat the Yankees the other weekend when they were ahead 9-0. The situation was dire for the Yankees - but they scored 14 runs and won. That's why it's irresponsible.

Feel free to spread any rumor about the NEC demise - it would be read by all with suspicion because of the source and lack of support to back it up.

And that's the point you are missing. McMurphy is a credible write from a national sports bureau and his article was a good piece detailing the long and successful history WAC, as well as its lack of a future as a football conference. It is fully supported by the facts of the day. Your poor example (yet again), only shows that you think wild rumors by bloggers somehow influence university presidents and conference commissioners in the real world. That could not be farther from the truth. The WAC will die not because of the article, it will happen because 6 of the 8 teams left for other conferences. Just as the PL won't be adding Loyola, Marist, Johns Hopkins, etc. anytime soon just because you wrote a online treatise supporting the reasons why it might be a good idea for PL Presidents to consider.

[aceinthehole]

Incidentally, how is it different from you taking McMurphy's quotes and believing that he's coming down from the mountains with stone proclamations?

I am skeptical of EVERYTHING I read. My point is McMurphy has been accurate and fair all along. His stories have led other reporters to ask more questions and they all point in the same direction. McMurphy isn't infallible, he is relying on his sources and he must weigh their information and report it in context and he has done that.

Yes, Robbins and has lost a ton a credibility and I do not think his work carries much weight. But in no way would I link the 2 reporters together in the same breath.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Feel free to spread any rumor about the NEC demise - it would be read by all with suspicion because of the source and lack of support to back it up.

I guess the conference commissioners, ADs, writers, reporters, and members of athletics departments I've talked to over the years - and just yesterday, in fact - means **** to "everybody" because you, ace, arbiter of all that is good in the media, have declared it so.

I'd love to hear your resume, and why anyone should give a flying **** what you have to say about anything.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Fine, the opportunity to have access to better recruits will be open to them if they move to FBS. It's still up to the coaches to actually land the better recruits. To that, you don't even have grounds for a denial. You're wrong and I won't even care to read your non-response to the issue. FBS equals access to better recruits. Up the coach to pull them in.

And by the way, I love how you put down Idaho out of one side of your mouth while begging on your hands and knees for them to come save the Big Sky and FCS out the other side of your mouth.

You're a very emotional guy when you are getting your *** handed to ya ain't ya? I would love them back, they are a great rival and did good things in the BSC. I like having them as a rival.

Now, out of the other side of my mouth I am giving you data that flies directly against what your perception of thing is. If you call that a put down I can't help that. Your perception is often incorrect.

Saying that being FBS gives you access is true for certain schools...the big ones. Just because a team is FBS does not and that is like saying a TV program that is available on a certain cable system has the potential for 40 million viewers even though it only gets 15,OOO viewers each week because it is a cable access show that nobody cares about.

Please post more about the endowments. I really love those sorts of insightful arguments that you make.xthumbsupx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

ursus, what are we, long-lost cousins or something? xlolx xlolx xlolx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

ursus, what are we, long-lost cousins or something? xlolx xlolx xlolx

I don't know, what did I do?

I love it when there are two completely separate arguments between two different sets of people going on in the same thread but I started skimming you and ace due to time constraints so if I copied you it was completely unintentional. i thought you guys were arguing Mcmurphy?

I better go back and read when I get the chance.xlolx

[clenz]

As for the FBS MAKES MONEY BECAUSE OF BOWLS arguement....shot to ****.....


Run down of chapters 3 and 4 in Death the the BCS


Chapter Three: Obstruction of Justice

This chapter looks at how corrupt and full of deceit the BCS powers-that-be truly are. It begins with a look back at CEO of the Alamo Bowl Derrick Fox’s testimony in front of the House Energy and Commerce subcommittee in May 2009.

A playoff system would cripple these bowl directors gravy train and they will do anything to prop up the current BCS system.

Fox stated before Congress, “Almost all postseason bowl games are put on by charitable groups, and since up to one-quarter of the proceeds from the games are dedicated to the community, local charities received tens of millions of dollars a year.”

The authors go to town destroying this argument with facts and figures:

*27 bowls enjoy not-for-profit status and do not pay taxes

*Not a single bowl game is run by a group that can be considered a charity. They are businesses first and foremost.

*23 bowl games with public records received $7.5 million in direct government handouts.

*The Sugar Bowl received $3 million in funding from Louisiana in 2007 and has its own lobbying firm to ensure its public financing. The organization brought in $34.1 million in revenue and gave ZERO money to charity, despite pulling $11.6 million in tax-free profit and $37 million in assets.

*Sugar Bowl executive director Paul Hoolahan received $607,500 in compensation for fiscal 2008. Associate executive director Jeff Hundley took in $375, 732.

*The Sugar Bowl cronies live lavishly spending thousands of dollars every year including, $494,177 for “entertainment” in 2005, $201,226 for “gifts and bonuses” in 2007, $330,244 for “decorations” in 2007, plus many, many more.

*The 23 tax-exempt bowls produced $186 million in revenue, including $141 million in net assets, but combined to give just $3.2 million (1.7 percent of revenue) to charity. More than half that charity came from just two bowls, the Orange and Chick-fil-A.

The rest of the chapter deals with the corruption that is starting to spring up as bowls like the Fiesta are reportedly contributing to political friends and allies to protect the Cartel system.

The Fiesta acknowledges spending $4 million since 2000 “on lobbyists, trips, dinners, and golf retreats to build relationships with athletic officials who control the BCS and to garner support from politicians.” The Arizona attorney general is currently investigating the matter.

The authors deride this and claim the $4 million could be sitting in coffers of colleges and universities, but instead it is wasted to protect the current BCS.

Chapter Four: Lies, Damn Lies, and Bowl Payouts

Chapter four goes into detail about how many bowl games lose universities thousands upon thousands of dollars despite the relative wealth earned by the bowls themselves.

A story is told about the 2008 Motor City Bowl and how San Jose State and Florida Atlantic tried to gain entrance to the postseason show by seeing who could bid the lowest and be accepted.

The game advertised a $750,000 payout, but Florida Atlantic settled on receiving zero cash, but 750k in tickets. Obviously, FAU was unable to sell that many tickets at full-price and ended up over $41,000 short of budget to send its 126-person traveling party to the bowl.

Other facts and figures:

*Bowl game appearances trigger bonuses for many coaches and athletic department staffers. Alabama paid a total of $1.3 million to its staff after the 2010 BCS title game.

*2008 Papajohns.com Bowl advertised a payout of $300,000, but required each school to sell 10,000 tickets. During this trip Rutgers lost $214,000 in unsold tickets, paid $270,000 in bonuses to its coaches and athletic department, and ultimately spent $1.2 million.

21 Rutgers executives spent $28,950 getting to the game and spent $60,168 over the six days in Birmingham, Alabama. At the time the school was coming off a New Jersey state audit for its wasteful spending on their trip to the 2006 Texas Bowl.

*For the 2009 Outback Bowl, Iowa ate $150,000 in unsold tickets, spent $328,340 on its band for the trip, also being charged $65 per game ticket for each band member ($22,490 total).

*Ohio State spent $2 million to appear in the 2010 Rose Bowl and lost $1 million in unsold seats in the 2009 Fiesta Bowl. Maryland spent $1 million to play in the Humanitarian Bowl with a $750,000 payout. Virginia Tech spent $3.8 million for the 2009 Orange Bowl and lost $1.6 million.

*Florida’s appearance in the 2009 BCS title game came with an advertised payout of $17.5 million, but after the SEC took that money and other payouts from the conferences seven bowl games, Florida ended up with a payout of $2.467 million. After the costs of playing a bowl game within their own state, the Gators ended up with a profit of $47,000.

To quote the authors, “Bowl directors estimate that only fourteen of the thirty-five games generate a legitimate profit for the participating teams.















The ****ing BCS champs get only 47K from the game....Yep...Cash ****ing cow for the WAC/SBC/MAC teams.

[darell1976]

As for the FBS MAKES MONEY BECAUSE OF BOWLS arguement....shot to ****.....


Run down of chapters 3 and 4 in Death the the BCS


Chapter Three: Obstruction of Justice

This chapter looks at how corrupt and full of deceit the BCS powers-that-be truly are. It begins with a look back at CEO of the Alamo Bowl Derrick Fox’s testimony in front of the House Energy and Commerce subcommittee in May 2009.

A playoff system would cripple these bowl directors gravy train and they will do anything to prop up the current BCS system.

Fox stated before Congress, “Almost all postseason bowl games are put on by charitable groups, and since up to one-quarter of the proceeds from the games are dedicated to the community, local charities received tens of millions of dollars a year.”

The authors go to town destroying this argument with facts and figures:

*27 bowls enjoy not-for-profit status and do not pay taxes

*Not a single bowl game is run by a group that can be considered a charity. They are businesses first and foremost.

*23 bowl games with public records received $7.5 million in direct government handouts.

*The Sugar Bowl received $3 million in funding from Louisiana in 2007 and has its own lobbying firm to ensure its public financing. The organization brought in $34.1 million in revenue and gave ZERO money to charity, despite pulling $11.6 million in tax-free profit and $37 million in assets.

*Sugar Bowl executive director Paul Hoolahan received $607,500 in compensation for fiscal 2008. Associate executive director Jeff Hundley took in $375, 732.

*The Sugar Bowl cronies live lavishly spending thousands of dollars every year including, $494,177 for “entertainment” in 2005, $201,226 for “gifts and bonuses” in 2007, $330,244 for “decorations” in 2007, plus many, many more.

*The 23 tax-exempt bowls produced $186 million in revenue, including $141 million in net assets, but combined to give just $3.2 million (1.7 percent of revenue) to charity. More than half that charity came from just two bowls, the Orange and Chick-fil-A.

The rest of the chapter deals with the corruption that is starting to spring up as bowls like the Fiesta are reportedly contributing to political friends and allies to protect the Cartel system.

The Fiesta acknowledges spending $4 million since 2000 “on lobbyists, trips, dinners, and golf retreats to build relationships with athletic officials who control the BCS and to garner support from politicians.” The Arizona attorney general is currently investigating the matter.

The authors deride this and claim the $4 million could be sitting in coffers of colleges and universities, but instead it is wasted to protect the current BCS.

Chapter Four: Lies, Damn Lies, and Bowl Payouts

Chapter four goes into detail about how many bowl games lose universities thousands upon thousands of dollars despite the relative wealth earned by the bowls themselves.

A story is told about the 2008 Motor City Bowl and how San Jose State and Florida Atlantic tried to gain entrance to the postseason show by seeing who could bid the lowest and be accepted.

The game advertised a $750,000 payout, but Florida Atlantic settled on receiving zero cash, but 750k in tickets. Obviously, FAU was unable to sell that many tickets at full-price and ended up over $41,000 short of budget to send its 126-person traveling party to the bowl.

Other facts and figures:

*Bowl game appearances trigger bonuses for many coaches and athletic department staffers. Alabama paid a total of $1.3 million to its staff after the 2010 BCS title game.

*2008 Papajohns.com Bowl advertised a payout of $300,000, but required each school to sell 10,000 tickets. During this trip Rutgers lost $214,000 in unsold tickets, paid $270,000 in bonuses to its coaches and athletic department, and ultimately spent $1.2 million.

21 Rutgers executives spent $28,950 getting to the game and spent $60,168 over the six days in Birmingham, Alabama. At the time the school was coming off a New Jersey state audit for its wasteful spending on their trip to the 2006 Texas Bowl.

*For the 2009 Outback Bowl, Iowa ate $150,000 in unsold tickets, spent $328,340 on its band for the trip, also being charged $65 per game ticket for each band member ($22,490 total).

*Ohio State spent $2 million to appear in the 2010 Rose Bowl and lost $1 million in unsold seats in the 2009 Fiesta Bowl. Maryland spent $1 million to play in the Humanitarian Bowl with a $750,000 payout. Virginia Tech spent $3.8 million for the 2009 Orange Bowl and lost $1.6 million.

*Florida’s appearance in the 2009 BCS title game came with an advertised payout of $17.5 million, but after the SEC took that money and other payouts from the conferences seven bowl games, Florida ended up with a payout of $2.467 million. After the costs of playing a bowl game within their own state, the Gators ended up with a profit of $47,000.

To quote the authors, “Bowl directors estimate that only fourteen of the thirty-five games generate a legitimate profit for the participating teams.

So unless your school has a cash cow....moving up to the FBS just to play in a bowl game isn't worth it financially.

[danefan]

I don't think you can just look at the bowl games in a vacuum to say whether its worth it or not. You have to look at the programs as a whole. Bowl games, TV packages, name recognition, etc...

[darell1976]

I don't think you can just look at the bowl games in a vacuum to say whether its worth it or not. You have to look at the programs as a whole. Bowl games, TV packages, name recognition, etc...

If colleges are struggling financially I would think moving up a division just to play a game on ESPN in December is not the answer.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I don't think you can just look at the bowl games in a vacuum to say whether its worth it or not. You have to look at the programs as a whole. Bowl games, TV packages, name recognition, etc...

Agree. However this has far & away been the war cry for the crowd that thinks moving up is gonna make them oodles of cash for the program. It's a lie that people won't stop telling no matter how much or for how many years it's been pointed out.

I have noticed that most people have stopped using it as the gem of their argument on AGS and CS though because it has been refuted for so long by some of us. So maybe some have stopped telling it I guess.

[clenz]

I don't think you can just look at the bowl games in a vacuum to say whether its worth it or not. You have to look at the programs as a whole. Bowl games, TV packages, name recognition, etc...Okay....get me a list of schools (NAIA through FBS) that have football programs that make money...Then get me a list of Athletic Departments that make money.


You'll notice that the only football programs that make money are BCS conference teams (a couple exceptions)......you'll also notice that the athletic departments that make money are only BCS schools...and a very very select list of them as well - unless it's changed from the list I saw last year.

[JSUBison]

They dropped football.

I know they did, but they'll bring it back if they are FBS because FBS is awesome and there are lots of television sets in Omaha and with all the money they will get from Bowls they can revive their rassling program, and then pour money into their BB program and overtake Creighton. xlolx

[clenz]

I know they did, but they'll bring it back if they are FBS because FBS is awesome and there are lots of television sets in Omaha and with all the money they will get from Bowls they can revive their rassling program, and then pour money into their BB program and overtake Creighton. xlolx

UNL would never let there be another FBS program in the state....that's the reason they dropped it to move to D1 and would have an FCS team....They don't want another football program in the state period, let alone a D1 team.

[CrazyCat]

Even if the WAC survives, the conference is sure to take a hit financially. With the recent departures, most notably Boise State, and the conference's diminished ranking among NCAA football's non-automatic qualifying conferences, the WAC's TV contract with ESPN had already been reduced by 80 percent, according to Spear. That translates into roughly $450,000 in lost revenue for Idaho athletics, which has an overall budget of about $18 million, Spear said. That contract is sure to lose more value.
"It's a big hit to our budget," Spear said.


http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/05/03/future-vandals-uncertain-wac-crumbles#xdm_e=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.standard.net&xdm_c=default5019&xdm_p=1&f=snet&t=future_of_vandals_uncertain_as_wac_crumbles&ff=Helvetica%20Neue%2C%20Arial%2C%20Helvetica%2C%2 0sans-serif&d=ltr&p=Type%20your%20comment%20here.&upload_media=true&mentions=true

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A story is told about the 2008 Motor City Bowl and how San Jose State and Florida Atlantic tried to gain entrance to the postseason show by seeing who could bid the lowest and be accepted.

The game advertised a $750,000 payout, but Florida Atlantic settled on receiving zero cash, but 750k in tickets. Obviously, FAU was unable to sell that many tickets at full-price and ended up over $41,000 short of budget to send its 126-person traveling party to the bowl.

My personal favorite part of the piece. Man, folks are lining up to be a part of the Motor City Bowl!!! xlolx

It could have mentioned - perhaps it does, somewhere - that mere existence in the Sun Belt requires a cash payment every year to the conference as well - to fund the bowls! Paying to get into the bowl, and paying to attend the bowl - and the bowls themselves lose money! Someone has to be getting rich with all this. Unfortunately, it's not me.

[GeauxLions94]

I've been reading too many stupid people's posts on message boards the past few days, and it has really started to make me naseous.

xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx

xbeerchugx xbeerchugx xbeerchugx xbeerchugx xbeerchugx xbeerchugx xbeerchugx

[dbackjon]

xeyebrowx

http://www.nauathletics.com/information/facilities/skydome

2nd paragraph:

That needs to be updated. Dome renovation last year reduced capacity by making seats bigger

[GeauxLions94]

As for the FBS MAKES MONEY BECAUSE OF BOWLS arguement....shot to ****.....


Run down of chapters 3 and 4 in Death the the BCS


Chapter Three: Obstruction of Justice

This chapter looks at how corrupt and full of deceit the BCS powers-that-be truly are. It begins with a look back at CEO of the Alamo Bowl Derrick Fox’s testimony in front of the House Energy and Commerce subcommittee in May 2009.

A playoff system would cripple these bowl directors gravy train and they will do anything to prop up the current BCS system.

Fox stated before Congress, “Almost all postseason bowl games are put on by charitable groups, and since up to one-quarter of the proceeds from the games are dedicated to the community, local charities received tens of millions of dollars a year.”

The authors go to town destroying this argument with facts and figures:

*27 bowls enjoy not-for-profit status and do not pay taxes

*Not a single bowl game is run by a group that can be considered a charity. They are businesses first and foremost.

*23 bowl games with public records received $7.5 million in direct government handouts.

*The Sugar Bowl received $3 million in funding from Louisiana in 2007 and has its own lobbying firm to ensure its public financing. The organization brought in $34.1 million in revenue and gave ZERO money to charity, despite pulling $11.6 million in tax-free profit and $37 million in assets.

*Sugar Bowl executive director Paul Hoolahan received $607,500 in compensation for fiscal 2008. Associate executive director Jeff Hundley took in $375, 732.

*The Sugar Bowl cronies live lavishly spending thousands of dollars every year including, $494,177 for “entertainment” in 2005, $201,226 for “gifts and bonuses” in 2007, $330,244 for “decorations” in 2007, plus many, many more.

*The 23 tax-exempt bowls produced $186 million in revenue, including $141 million in net assets, but combined to give just $3.2 million (1.7 percent of revenue) to charity. More than half that charity came from just two bowls, the Orange and Chick-fil-A.

The rest of the chapter deals with the corruption that is starting to spring up as bowls like the Fiesta are reportedly contributing to political friends and allies to protect the Cartel system.

The Fiesta acknowledges spending $4 million since 2000 “on lobbyists, trips, dinners, and golf retreats to build relationships with athletic officials who control the BCS and to garner support from politicians.” The Arizona attorney general is currently investigating the matter.

The authors deride this and claim the $4 million could be sitting in coffers of colleges and universities, but instead it is wasted to protect the current BCS.

Chapter Four: Lies, Damn Lies, and Bowl Payouts

Chapter four goes into detail about how many bowl games lose universities thousands upon thousands of dollars despite the relative wealth earned by the bowls themselves.

A story is told about the 2008 Motor City Bowl and how San Jose State and Florida Atlantic tried to gain entrance to the postseason show by seeing who could bid the lowest and be accepted.

The game advertised a $750,000 payout, but Florida Atlantic settled on receiving zero cash, but 750k in tickets. Obviously, FAU was unable to sell that many tickets at full-price and ended up over $41,000 short of budget to send its 126-person traveling party to the bowl.

Other facts and figures:

*Bowl game appearances trigger bonuses for many coaches and athletic department staffers. Alabama paid a total of $1.3 million to its staff after the 2010 BCS title game.

*2008 Papajohns.com Bowl advertised a payout of $300,000, but required each school to sell 10,000 tickets. During this trip Rutgers lost $214,000 in unsold tickets, paid $270,000 in bonuses to its coaches and athletic department, and ultimately spent $1.2 million.

21 Rutgers executives spent $28,950 getting to the game and spent $60,168 over the six days in Birmingham, Alabama. At the time the school was coming off a New Jersey state audit for its wasteful spending on their trip to the 2006 Texas Bowl.

*For the 2009 Outback Bowl, Iowa ate $150,000 in unsold tickets, spent $328,340 on its band for the trip, also being charged $65 per game ticket for each band member ($22,490 total).

*Ohio State spent $2 million to appear in the 2010 Rose Bowl and lost $1 million in unsold seats in the 2009 Fiesta Bowl. Maryland spent $1 million to play in the Humanitarian Bowl with a $750,000 payout. Virginia Tech spent $3.8 million for the 2009 Orange Bowl and lost $1.6 million.

*Florida’s appearance in the 2009 BCS title game came with an advertised payout of $17.5 million, but after the SEC took that money and other payouts from the conferences seven bowl games, Florida ended up with a payout of $2.467 million. After the costs of playing a bowl game within their own state, the Gators ended up with a profit of $47,000.

To quote the authors, “Bowl directors estimate that only fourteen of the thirty-five games generate a legitimate profit for the participating teams.















The ****ing BCS champs get only 47K from the game....Yep...Cash ****ing cow for the WAC/SBC/MAC teams.

Clenz, that is the Post of the Year! Many rep points coming your way.

[MplsBison]

That needs to be updated. Dome renovation last year reduced capacity by making seats bigger

Source? Any newspaper article would do fine for me.

[MplsBison]

You're a very emotional guy when you are getting your *** handed to ya ain't ya? I would love them back, they are a great rival and did good things in the BSC. I like having them as a rival.

Now, out of the other side of my mouth I am giving you data that flies directly against what your perception of thing is. If you call that a put down I can't help that. Your perception is often incorrect.

Saying that being FBS gives you access is true for certain schools...the big ones. Just because a team is FBS does not and that is like saying a TV program that is available on a certain cable system has the potential for 40 million viewers even though it only gets 15,OOO viewers each week because it is a cable access show that nobody cares about.

Please post more about the endowments. I really love those sorts of insightful arguments that you make.xthumbsupx

You said that Idaho has a 7-5 record against Big Sky teams. That, at best, only proves they haven't been able to pull better recruits in. It does not prove that they don't have access to them.

As I said, being in FBS only opens the door that's closed to FCS schools. It's up the coach to seal the deal.

[ASUMountaineer]

My personal favorite part of the piece. Man, folks are lining up to be a part of the Motor City Bowl!!! xlolx

It could have mentioned - perhaps it does, somewhere - that mere existence in the Sun Belt requires a cash payment every year to the conference as well - to fund the bowls! Paying to get into the bowl, and paying to attend the bowl - and the bowls themselves lose money! Someone has to be getting rich with all this. Unfortunately, it's not me.

Just for comparison, do you have any figures for how much money FCS programs make/lose participating in the playoffs?

[MplsBison]

Who is claiming that moving to the Sun Belt, WAC or MAC is the same thing as striking oil?

I fail to see the reason that FCS fans think they have such a trump card to throw down to anyone who will listen, that teams don't end up with lots of extra cash on bowl trips. Indeed, they spend a LOT of money making it a memorable experience for people associate with the program and the players.

How in the name of anything you hold dear and cherish does that prove that it's better off to stay in FCS unless you can be in the Big Ten or SEC ?!?!?!?!!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[darell1976]

You said that Idaho has a 7-5 record against Big Sky teams. That, at best, only proves they haven't been able to pull better recruits in. It does not prove that they don't have access to them.

As I said, being in FBS only opens the door that's closed to FCS schools. It's up the coach to seal the deal.

Idaho is one of the biggest jokes of the FBS world. No one in the FBS would care if they moved back. Idaho State probably has had better recruits than Idaho. With Boise State as king in that state Idaho is on the same level as ISU so they might as well come back to the BSC.

[MplsBison]

Idaho is one of the biggest jokes of the FBS world. No one in the FBS would care if they moved back. Idaho State probably has had better recruits than Idaho. With Boise State as king in that state Idaho is on the same level as ISU so they might as well come back to the BSC.

Wrong on all counts, except that Boise has the best team in the state.

[darell1976]

Wrong on all counts, except that Boise has the best team in the state.

Minus that one bowl game Idaho has been in I am trying to remember all the other successful seasons they have had. Please tell me.

[AmsterBison]

Just for comparison, do you have any figures for how much money FCS programs make/lose participating in the playoffs?

I doubt that the NCAA (or anybody) keeps that particular statistic because when schools are in a bidding situation, folks have a reason to keep their cards close.

It was reported that NDSU made around $150k from the 2011 playoffs despite splitting the pot with the city (Fargo got around $100k.) NCAA took in $500k or so which should have been a profit for them as well.

Barely made money the year before on the single Thanksgiving Day weekend game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I doubt that the NCAA (or anybody) keeps that particular statistic because when schools are in a bidding situation, folks have a reason to keep their cards close.

It was reported that NDSU made around $150k from the 2011 playoffs despite splitting the pot with the city (Fargo got around $100k.) NCAA took in $500k or so which should have been a profit for them as well.

Barely made money the year before on the single Thanksgiving Day weekend game.

+1. Also, you don't have to pay your conference for the "privilege" of playing in the playoffs.

[aceinthehole]

I guess the conference commissioners, ADs, writers, reporters, and members of athletics departments I've talked to over the years - and just yesterday, in fact - means **** to "everybody" because you, ace, arbiter of all that is good in the media, have declared it so.

I'd love to hear your resume, and why anyone should give a flying **** what you have to say about anything.

What I wrote was, that if you posted a "rumor that the NEC "is dead" and will be left with CCSU and Albany" it would not effect our recruiting in any way. Why? Because your false rumor would not influence anyone because it isn't supported by anything credible. I am not, and never claimed to be, an arbiter of all that is good in the media. What I have done on multiple occasions on this board is to offer my personal opinion as an informed fan on various topics.

But since you aksed, what hat are you wearing today - fan or journalist? Are you just a FCS fan with an opinion on a messageboard, or are you "a prolific college football writer"?

I don't take MPLS serious because he doesn't pretend to be a part of the FCS media. You, on the other hand, at times sell yourself as a crediable source of the media when it suits you. Then when you want to post some silly hypotheticals or take shots at other writers you say you are just a fan.

My resume is irrelevant because I've always maintained that I'm just a fan sharing my thoughts with others. Everyone takes my posts any way they want, but it is based on what I write - not who I say I am. I've been posting for 7 years and have participated long enough for everyone to know I'm pretty straight shooter and back up what I write with a transparent logic, even when others disagree.

[MplsBison]

+1. Also, you don't have to pay your conference for the "privilege" of playing in the playoffs.

Indeed, what an outrage!

Much better to let the NCAA take your money from you hosting their playoff game.

[MplsBison]

What I wrote was, that if you posted a "rumor that the NEC "is dead" and will be left with CCSU and Albany" it would not effect our recruiting in any way. Why? Because your false rumor would not influence anyone because it isn't supported by anything credible. I am not, and never claimed to be, an arbiter of all that is good in the media. What I have done on multiple occasions on this board is to offer my personal opinion as an informed fan on various topics.

But since you aksed, what hat are you wearing today - fan or journalist? Are you just a FCS fan with an opinion on a messageboard, or are you "a prolific college football writer"?

I don't take MPLS serious because he doesn't pretend to be a part of the FCS media. You, on the other hand, at times sell yourself as a crediable source of the media when it suits you. Then when you want to post some silly hypotheticals or take shots at other writers you say you are just a fan.

My resume is irrelevant because I've always maintained that I'm just a fan sharing my thoughts with others. Everyone takes my posts any way they want, but it is based on what I write - not who I say I am. I've been posting for 7 years and have participated long enough for everyone to know I'm pretty straight shooter and back up what I write with a transparent logic, even when others disagree.

Here's the way you know he's not a real journalist: he has nothing to lose by lying in his "reports".

Say he lies his rear off. He doesn't lose his job. Doesn't lose any money. Doesn't even lose his blog. Therefore, he has no credibility in my book.



Put some skin in the game. That's when you can tell true colors.

[MplsBison]

Minus that one bowl game Idaho has been in I am trying to remember all the other successful seasons they have had. Please tell me.

They're not a joke in FBS. People would care if they moved back. Idaho state doesn't have better recruits. They should not just as well move back.

As I said, wrong on all counts except for Boise being the best team in the state.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Here's the way you know he's not a real journalist: he has nothing to lose by lying in his "reports".

Say he lies his rear off. He doesn't lose his job. Doesn't lose any money. Doesn't even lose his blog. Therefore, he has no credibility in my book.

Put some skin in the game. That's when you can tell true colors.

Like yourself, no doubt. xrolleyesx

BTW - thanks for the signature idea. xlolx

[MplsBison]

Like yourself, no doubt. xrolleyesx

BTW - thanks for the signature idea. xlolx

I have no skin in the game. My posts on AGS are not the same thing as being published. Neither is writing a free hosted blog.

You're not a journalist.

[BearIt]

I put together some numbers and posted them on the WAC board about a month ago to show that just being in WAC is not superior financially to the FCS. Here's a cut and paste of the string:



spartypants wrote: even the "haves" in FCS don't have jack.
The haves in the FCS have more than most of the WAC.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports...aa-finances.htm

I took the total revenue and subtracted student fees,direct state and direct institutional support. Since that is really just welfare money to keep athletics afloat. It really isn't revenue. These numbers should be closer to what the programs actually bring in.

Here's 2009-2010 revenues for remaining schools that were in the WAC then:

New Mexico State: $11,826,233
Idaho: $9,982,692
Louisiana Tech: $9,959,861
SJSU: $9,728,055
Utah State: $8,646,640

And here is Montana...

Montana $11,134,752

Only New Mexico State had better revenue than Montana. I would expect that with the new WAC there will be less bowl money, less NCAA tourney money and less TV money than there was in the 2009-2010 year.

This clearly shows that it is better for the "haves" of FCS to be in the FCS and not in the WAC. The expenses will go up, but the revenues really don't change. This is why Montana is not in the WAC right now.

I don't say this to knock the WAC. I think for other institutions it is probably a better place to be, but not ncecessarily for the FCS "haves." At least not right now.


You actually have less. When you add up how much money in direct instutional support, Student fees and State support is spent to maintain FBS status. The gap between the FCS haves and the bottom of the FBS gets even bigger in favor of the FCS.

As an example NMSU brought in the most revnue of all the WAC schools, but they required $13,607,380 in student fees, direct instutional suppor and state support. Montana required $5,726,442

So NMSU athletics had to recieve $7,880,938 more than Montana from the state, the university and students to be in the WAC and FBS and bring in $691,481 more than Montana.

Montana may not have significantly more upward mobility to go, but NMSU needs to bring in about $7.2 million more dollars to get to the same level of financial independence as Montana. It's a good thing they have such a large ceilling for growth, because they have a long way to go to catch up.




If you compare the Student fees, state and instutional support you can see that Idaho spends a lot more to be there.
Idaho's recieved $7,918,710 from those sources VS. $5,726,442 for Montana.

Idaho spending $2.19 million dollars more than Montana in student fees, tax dollars and university funds to be in FBS.

I'm not arguing that Idaho should or should not be where they are, I'm just point out why FCS teams aren't lining up to join the WAC. The reality is that the revenue isn't there to support the expense of being there. Some institutions like Texas State don't care because that is just the level that they want to compete at. They are willing to spend the money. I think most state universities in the west have a tough time justifying the extra expense. The revenue numbers aren't there.

As a fan I would love to see Montana play Idaho, Wyoming, CSU..., but I understand why we aren't.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I have no skin in the game. My posts on AGS are not the same thing as being published. Neither is writing a free hosted blog.

You're not a journalist.

Sure. Whatever you say.

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com
http://www.college-sports-journal.com

[clenz]

Being an internet blogger doesn't count as being a journalist...it counts as being an internet blogger

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[TheBisonator]

I doubt that the NCAA (or anybody) keeps that particular statistic because when schools are in a bidding situation, folks have a reason to keep their cards close.

It was reported that NDSU made around $150k from the 2011 playoffs despite splitting the pot with the city (Fargo got around $100k.) NCAA took in $500k or so which should have been a profit for them as well.

Barely made money the year before on the single Thanksgiving Day weekend game.

So you're actually saying NDSU Football made a little bit of money from the 2011 Playoffs?? As opposed to losing potentially millions from a lower-tier bowl?? Interesting....

[TheBisonator]

Source? Any newspaper article would do fine for me.

Here's pictures:

http://static.psbin.com/g/9/gtn5rhvpjanmy9/beaty_09102011_093.jpg

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/azdailysun.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/d6/3d60b242-41fd-5045-b470-95ed68d6a433/4e3b81df80422.image.jpg

Seats look wider, and there looks like at least a couple thousand seats taken out for that press box.

[dbackjon]

Before pic - lots of bleachers.

Now all chairback seats, which drastically cuts down on seating

http://phxfan.com/wp-content/themes/arras-theme/library/timthumb.php?src=http://phxfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/skydome3.jpg&w=640&h=250&zc=1

[ursus arctos horribilis]

So you're actually saying NDSU Football made a little bit of money from the 2011 Playoffs?? As opposed to losing potentially millions from a lower-tier bowl?? Interesting....

hell yeah. You pay the NCAA the vast portion of the proceeds but the split is about 75-25 or something like that in real dollars. NDSU probably has a small processing fee for tickets when you purchase them for the playoffs which the NCAA doesn't take and then concessions, gear sales, etc.

In 2009 the Griz sent either 1.2 or 1.5 million to the NCAA but got to keep between 350-500K, I can't remember the exact #'s that were published but that's real close.

Being able to go and see those games in person was pretty sweet on top of that.

[goyotes]

Following link is a good summary of Idaho's press conference. http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2012/05/04/bmurphy/utah_state_san_jose_state_join_mountain_west

Addresses not only Idaho's current situation, but also some interesting comments about the changing structure of conferences.

[MplsBison]

So you're actually saying NDSU Football made a little bit of money from the 2011 Playoffs?? As opposed to losing potentially millions from a lower-tier bowl?? Interesting....

Lose millions? No.

[MplsBison]

Before pic - lots of bleachers.

Now all chairback seats, which drastically cuts down on seating

http://phxfan.com/wp-content/themes/arras-theme/library/timthumb.php?src=http://phxfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/skydome3.jpg&w=640&h=250&zc=1

I know I should just take your word, since you're apparently a NAU fan. But then again, I'd like to think that NAU would be reasonable enough to keep their website up to date...

So I'm going to say "still looking for something published", while giving you the nod that you're probably correct.

[MplsBison]

Following link is a good summary of Idaho's press conference. http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2012/05/04/bmurphy/utah_state_san_jose_state_join_mountain_west

Addresses not only Idaho's current situation, but also some interesting comments about the changing structure of conferences.

Awesome article! Thanks for posting that.

So - all you FCS quacks in this thread - if Idaho's boosters and alumni were all squealing for them to get back into the Big Sky, would Idaho's AD have come out and list the top 3 priorities being stay in FBS?!?!

Being an FBS independent is listed higher than returning to the FCS, which will basically be seen as death to the football program and an "at all costs last resort".

So, FCS apologists, start apologizing. I'll go ahead and take my victory bow.

[TheBisonator]

I know I should just take your word, since you're apparently a NAU fan. But then again, I'd like to think that NAU would be reasonable enough to keep their website up to date...

So I'm going to say "still looking for something published", while giving you the nod that you're probably correct.

I had a $20 bet lined up in Vegas that you still wouldn't believe it if you were shown pictures. I won. 5-2 odds.

[FormerPokeCenter]

I have no skin in the game. My posts on AGS are not the same thing as being published. Neither is writing a free hosted blog.

You're not a journalist.

What defines a journalist? Getting paid? I know tons of guys who get paid to "write" about sports and they're not "journalists" by any stretch of the imagination.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but working in sports is the equivalent of working in the toy department at a big box department store. If you're a serious journalist, you're writing about weighty life and death topics, so - the retail equivalent of that would be in, say , durable goods like appliances ;)

Working in the toy department and writing about matters as trivial as sports can be done by just about anybody. Hence the reason I've done it for 26 years, 17 newspapers & a few odd magazines, most of it as a stringer after I left the newspaper business in favor of a job that paid better ;) I see no difference, really, in writing a blog/providing content for an online site devoted to college football and, say, working as a stringer for a print publication. Now, having said that, I wouldn't self-describe as a journalist...but...sportswriter? Absolutely ;)

And, as to earning a wage being the litmus test, sports writers generally earn squat and those who do it well, don't do it for the money....though guys like Mikey Herskowitz, et al, make a nice living by writing books....I've got a relative who was an SI writer who now earns a living by having a Houston radio show, writing a blog and preparing a column for a website devoted to the Texas Aggies....Does the fact that he writes for a blog and a website make him any less of a sports writer? Not from where I sit. I still remember reading his stuff in Sports Illustrated ;)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I had a $20 bet lined up in Vegas that you still wouldn't believe it if you were shown pictures. I won. 5-2 odds.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TheBisonator again.

[goyotes]

Awesome article! Thanks for posting that.

So - all you FCS quacks in this thread - if Idaho's boosters and alumni were all squealing for them to get back into the Big Sky, would Idaho's AD have come out and list the top 3 priorities being stay in FBS?!?!

Being an FBS independent is listed higher than returning to the FCS, which will basically be seen as death to the football program and an "at all costs last resort".

So, FCS apologists, start apologizing. I'll go ahead and take my victory bow.

In my opinion, the BCS / FCS split as we now know it will soon be a thing of the past. The top 5-7 conferences will eventually split off into a separate division. (and perhaps be joined by a couple of non-football conferences for basketball) All of the movement at the top in is an attempt by these teams to end up in the this new division. The remaining current BCS teams plus the upper FCS conferences will end up in the next division. All of the movement of FCS teams to the bottom BCS conferences is to make sure they end up in this new division. I think both the MVFC & Big Sky are committed to being part of this new division. I also think a couple of the non-football teams in the MVC (likely Creighton & Wichita State) will eventually split away to a non-football conference so as to be part of the top basketball division.

[TheBisonator]

In my opinion, the BCS / FCS split as we now know it will soon be a thing of the past. The top 5-7 conferences will eventually split off into a separate division. (and perhaps be joined by a couple of non-football conferences for basketball) All of the movement at the top in is an attempt by these teams to end up in the this new division. The remaining current BCS teams plus the upper FCS conferences will end up in the next division. All of the movement of FCS teams to the bottom BCS conferences is to make sure they end up in this new division. I think both the MVFC & Big Sky are committed to being part of this new division. I also think a couple of the non-football teams in the MVC (likely Creighton & Wichita State) will eventually split away to a non-football conference so as to be part of the top basketball division.

Let's hope so. Let's hope to God. For the sake of all our respective schools.

I do feel that wherever the Montana schools end up, that's where the Dakota schools will be.

[goyotes]

Here is an updated list of the BCS schools. http://bcsguru.com/2012_conferences.htm

Look at the future makeup of CUSA, MAC & Sun Belt along with the bottom half of the Mountain West. All teams the the current upper portion of the FCS could compete with.

[darell1976]

Here is an updated list of the BCS schools. http://bcsguru.com/2012_conferences.htm

Look at the future makeup of CUSA, MAC & Sun Belt along with the bottom half of the Mountain West. All teams the the current upper portion of the FCS could compete with.

I guess geography doesn't matter in the Big East. It should be named the Big Country.

[darell1976]

I doubt that the NCAA (or anybody) keeps that particular statistic because when schools are in a bidding situation, folks have a reason to keep their cards close.

It was reported that NDSU made around $150k from the 2011 playoffs despite splitting the pot with the city (Fargo got around $100k.) NCAA took in $500k or so which should have been a profit for them as well.

Barely made money the year before on the single Thanksgiving Day weekend game.

Why does Fargo get money??

[TheBisonator]

Why does Fargo get money??

Probably because the city owns the place. Bison Football is just the main tenant.

[aceinthehole]

Following link is a good summary of Idaho's press conference. http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2012/05/04/bmurphy/utah_state_san_jose_state_join_mountain_west

Addresses not only Idaho's current situation, but also some interesting comments about the changing structure of conferences.

hmm ... not a single mention to add any new schools to the WAC ;)

Looks like the WAC has hit an iceberg and is taking on water fast. Idaho and NMSU are desperately looking for a life preserver before the WAC is a fond memory.

[GA St. MBB Fan]

I have no skin in the game. My posts on AGS are not the same thing as being published. Neither is writing a free hosted blog.

You're not a journalist.

Yep.


Sure. Whatever you say.

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com
http://www.college-sports-journal.com

LOL


Being an internet blogger doesn't count as being a journalist...it counts as being an internet blogger

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

Yep.

[MplsBison]

Probably because the city owns the place. Bison Football is just the main tenant.

I assume Grand Forks would get money from playoff games hosted at the Alerus.

Probably has something in the contract about "additional home games", etc. in both situations.

[MplsBison]

In my opinion, the BCS / FCS split as we now know it will soon be a thing of the past. The top 5-7 conferences will eventually split off into a separate division. (and perhaps be joined by a couple of non-football conferences for basketball) All of the movement at the top in is an attempt by these teams to end up in the this new division. The remaining current BCS teams plus the upper FCS conferences will end up in the next division. All of the movement of FCS teams to the bottom BCS conferences is to make sure they end up in this new division. I think both the MVFC & Big Sky are committed to being part of this new division. I also think a couple of the non-football teams in the MVC (likely Creighton & Wichita State) will eventually split away to a non-football conference so as to be part of the top basketball division.

Yes, I agree with you. The Idaho AD all says as much and his quote in your link is something to the effect of "I want Idaho to be in that second tier" after the split occurs.

Moving down to the Big Sky is not a good way to guarantee that.


Nonetheless, this split is not coming immediately. Top concern right now is getting the playoff format set-up in BCS and seeing how that works during the next TV contract. The thing that could ultimately cause the split is having to "share" the revenue from the BCS with "non-BCS conferences".

That's a hot button item right now in the playoff negotiations.


My prediction is that this coming TV contract (2014-...) they'll be forced into sharing more of the money with these smaller conferences than they wanted. It will cause this spilt on the next TV contract.

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

If the WAC wants to survive, their only get SacSt, Portland St, the two Montana schools, maybe Lamar or Sam Houston, and the two Dakota States to move to the FBS. Why not, the top tier of the FCS seems to be leaving in droves.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If the WAC wants to survive, their only get SacSt, Portland St, the two Montana schools, maybe Lamar or Sam Houston, and the two Dakota States to move to the FBS. Why not, the top tier of the FCS seems to be leaving in droves.

What are you smoking? Under no definition of the words "top tier" do Georgia State, Texas State, UTSA and UNCC qualify under that moniker. There are programs moving to FBS, yes, but hardly top-flight programs.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

If the WAC wants to survive, their only get SacSt, Portland St, the two Montana schools, maybe Lamar or Sam Houston, and the two Dakota States to move to the FBS. Why not, the top tier of the FCS seems to be leaving in droves.

I don't think you've beee reading this thread cuz that has been covered and reasons why these schools wouldn't to go have been provided. Also most of those schools mentioned have already "no" to the WAC last summer before the latest blows have hit.

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

I don't think you've beee reading this thread cuz that has been covered and reasons why these schools wouldn't to go have been provided. Also most of those schools mentioned have already "no" to the WAC last summer before the latest blows have hit.

That is a very astute observation, I believe I only read the first post - however, I do think that is what it will take for the WAC to survive, in other words, the WAC is gone.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

That is a very astute observation, I believe I only read the first post.xlolx
I kinda figured. After seeing MPLS get filleted by stating those same things and telling us how wrong we are and that FBS is where it should be at for us you either didn't look it over or are pulling a fast one.xthumbsupx

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

What are you smoking? Under no definition of the words "top tier" do Georgia State, Texas State, UTSA and UNCC qualify under that moniker. There are programs moving to FBS, yes, but hardly top-flight programs.

I never called UTSA, Charlotte, or Ga State top tier, though I understand why you thought I did. Allow me to clarify what I was thinking. By top tier, I meant the programs that actually have fans and put butts in the stands. Not counting the Ivies and the HBCs, the overwhelming majority of the top draws either are or want to move up to the FBS if/when the opportunity arises. The top 13 non-Ivy/HBC in attendance break down like this: officially moving-South Alabama, Georgia St; likely official announcement by June 1-App State, Old Dominion, Georgia Southern, JMU; Have had formal talks with FBS conferences- Jacksonville State, Liberty, Delaware, Lamar; unknown to me- Montana State, North Dakota State; officially rejected FBS when offered- Montana. That's 10 at least of the top programs entertaining the notion of moving to
the FBS. The winner of 9 of the last 14 FCS championship games either have already moved or are openly planning a move. So the way I see it, the top tier of the FCS is leaving in droves, it's just the process is still on-going.

[MplsBison]

I never called UTSA, Charlotte, or Ga State top tier, though I understand why you thought I did. Allow me to clarify what I was thinking. By top tier, I meant the programs that actually have fans and put butts in the stands. Not counting the Ivies and the HBCs, the overwhelming majority of the top draws either are or want to move up to the FBS if/when the opportunity arises. The top 13 non-Ivy/HBC in attendance break down like this: officially moving-South Alabama, Georgia St; likely official announcement by June 1-App State, Old Dominion, Georgia Southern, JMU; Have had formal talks with FBS conferences- Jacksonville State, Liberty, Delaware, Lamar; unknown to me- Montana State, North Dakota State; officially rejected FBS when offered- Montana. That's 10 at least of the top programs entertaining the notion of moving to
the FBS. The winner of 9 of the last 14 FCS championship games either have already moved or are openly planning a move. So the way I see it, the top tier of the FCS is leaving in droves, it's just the process is still on-going.

I'm afraid you won't be getting a response any time soon from LFN.

He's in the middle of an undercover investigation to expose the "real truth" behind FBS and how these schools will lose hundreds of millions of dollars making the move.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm afraid you won't be getting a response any time soon from LFN.

He's in the middle of an undercover investigation to expose the "real truth" behind FBS and how these schools will lose hundreds of millions of dollars making the move.

They almost certainly will. It's true.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I never called UTSA, Charlotte, or Ga State top tier, though I understand why you thought I did. Allow me to clarify what I was thinking. By top tier, I meant the programs that actually have fans and put butts in the stands. Not counting the Ivies and the HBCs, the overwhelming majority of the top draws either are or want to move up to the FBS if/when the opportunity arises. The top 13 non-Ivy/HBC in attendance break down like this: officially moving-South Alabama, Georgia St; likely official announcement by June 1-App State, Old Dominion, Georgia Southern, JMU; Have had formal talks with FBS conferences- Jacksonville State, Liberty, Delaware, Lamar; unknown to me- Montana State, North Dakota State; officially rejected FBS when offered- Montana. That's 10 at least of the top programs entertaining the notion of moving to
the FBS. The winner of 9 of the last 14 FCS championship games either have already moved or are openly planning a move. So the way I see it, the top tier of the FCS is leaving in droves, it's just the process is still on-going.

Once App State chooses to stay in the SoCon or move to the CAA (probably) and Delaware remains FCS (an absolute certainty), your argument is shot to hell. Your "openly planning a move" list could all be playing FCS football for the next five years or probably more.

South Alabama never made any secret they were going to the Sun Belt, they have been and are remaining in the Sun Belt.

Liberty would go tomorrow to FBS if there was anybody who wanted them, the same with Jacksonville State. The problem is nobody wants them. But Lamar and especially Delaware is pure conjecture. Delaware will be in the FCS as long as there is an FCS.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Interesting little blurb:

http://www.wacsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10100&ATCLID=205422187



Looks like they're going to give it a shot, at least for Seattle, Denver, New Mexico State and Idaho's sake.

If you can get to 6 football/8 bball - at least you have a fighting chance.


But the only realistic options are Big Sky schools that have the desire to move up.

So right there you have Portland St and Sac St. Need two more.


Weber has the facilities to support FBS and pretty decent bball. They're not Utah St in that regard, but not bad and keeps at least a foot in the SLC door.

From there, Northern Arizona has a big enough stadium to support FBS.


This of course assuming that Montana schools wouldn't be interested. But obviously they'd be the prize.

Could be a once in a generation opportunity to get into FBS ball.


NDSU would be stupid to pass up the opportunity, but I don't think it's coming due to being Central time zone.

I didn't think an NFL team could move down to the FBS?

[dbackjon]

Email from NAU's SID: Dome Capacity is 10,000 for football.


Don't trust everything you see on da interwebs.

[aceinthehole]

So let me get this straight: he's not doing anything wrong about writing an obituary and publishing it while the victim is still alive, and for all I know could miraculously recover? Does nobody read his articles? Recruits? College football fans?

Yet another obit for the WAC.


If the Western Athletic Conference is in its final months of existence — and that reality is becoming increasingly likely — its epitaph will read something like this:

WAC:
1962-2013
Once among the best athletic conferences in the nation; home to some of the premier colleges in the West; a springboard for scores of institutions; perished after a wicked case of realignment in the 2010s.

Last week alone, the WAC lost Utah State and San Jose State to the Mountain West; Louisiana Tech and Texas-San Antonio to Conference USA; and Texas State to the Sun Belt. That follows the departure of Nevada, Fresno State, Hawaii and Boise State the previous two years. Texas-San Antonio and Texas State bailed on the WAC before playing a single game in the league.

“The WAC is going to disappear,” predicted UNR history professor Richard O. Davies, who is one of the top sports historians in the nation.

The departures leave the WAC with just two football-playing schools in 2013-14 — Idaho and New Mexico State — and four non-football schools in Seattle, Denver, Texas-Arlington and Boise State.

The WAC’s odds of remaining a football conference past this season are highly unlikely. Of the conferences impacted by realignment, the WAC has been affected the most.
...
“I do feel bad what’s happening to the WAC,” Wolf Pack athletic director Cary Groth said. “There are people in that league that are good friends, but in the end we have to do what’s best for our school and you hate to see the WAC fold. If the WAC does fold, and it likely will, there will only be two FBS football conferences west of the Mississippi: the Pac-12 and the Mountain West. That’s amazing.” http://www.rgj.com/article/20120506/SPORTS06/305060084/1018

[DFW HOYA]

"The WAC is going to disappear,” predicted UNR history professor Richard O. Davies, who is one of the top sports historians in the nation."

It must be true, since he wrote a book on it, oh, 18 years ago.

http://www.unr.edu/cla/history/people/davies/index.html

[MplsBison]

Email from NAU's SID: Dome Capacity is 10,000 for football.


Don't trust everything you see on da interwebs.

Ok good enough.

[darell1976]

Email from NAU's SID: Dome Capacity is 10,000 for football.


Don't trust everything you see on da interwebs.

Is your dome capable for expansion? Our dome isn't and is stuck at 13,500.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Is your dome capable for expansion? Our dome isn't and is stuck at 13,500.

No, they just reduced seating to upgrade the facilities pressboxes, ventilation, and several other things. They went from 15K to 10K to do so and I don't think they'd have done it if they were expecting to expand seating.

[darell1976]

No, they just reduced seating to upgrade the facilities pressboxes, ventilation, and several other things. They went from 15K to 10K to do so and I don't think they'd have done it if they were expecting to expand seating.

So obviously FBS wasn't in the near future.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

So obviously FBS wasn't in the near future.

No, and I listened to an interview with Tom Jurich (VP and Director of Athletics) at Louisville. He is a graduate of NAU and former AD there and he quite vehemently supported schools like NAU, Montana, etc. being in FCS with the costs associated to compete at the FBS level.

He said he really enjoys watching the FCS games and the quality he sees at this level. Of course you'd expect him to say something good being the former AD at NAU and being interviewed on their station but he seemed real genuine and excited to be at what he called a "big game" to him and the fans.

Needless to say I really like the guy because he doesn't seem full of ****.

[MplsBison]

No, and I listened to an interview with Tom Jurich (VP and Director of Athletics) at Louisville. He is a graduate of NAU and former AD there and he quite vehemently supported schools like NAU, Montana, etc. being in FCS with the costs associated to compete at the FBS level.

He said he really enjoys watching the FCS games and the quality he sees at this level. Of course you'd expect him to say something good being the former AD at NAU and being interviewed on their station but he seemed real genuine and excited to be at what he called a "big game" to him and the fans.

Needless to say I really like the guy because he doesn't seem full of ****.

Indeed, the teams in FCS need to be more like those in the Pioneer League.

Save costs!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Indeed, the teams in FCS need to be more like those in the Pioneer League.

Save costs!

Sure thing. I'm a big fan of how you think going from one extreme to another is what makes a proper point. Good for you.xthumbsupx

All the same, I'm gonna go ahead and trust his opinion over yours ciz he knows a little something about what talks about.

[Sycamore51]

No, and I listened to an interview with Tom Jurich (VP and Director of Athletics) at Louisville. He is a graduate of NAU and former AD there and he quite vehemently supported schools like NAU, Montana, etc. being in FCS with the costs associated to compete at the FBS level.

He said he really enjoys watching the FCS games and the quality he sees at this level. Of course you'd expect him to say something good being the former AD at NAU and being interviewed on their station but he seemed real genuine and excited to be at what he called a "big game" to him and the fans.

Needless to say I really like the guy because he doesn't seem full of ****.

He is possibly the best AD in all of athletics. He has given Louisville the resources to be a top 25 team in nearly all sports, men's and women's.

[dbackjon]

No, and I listened to an interview with Tom Jurich (VP and Director of Athletics) at Louisville. He is a graduate of NAU and former AD there and he quite vehemently supported schools like NAU, Montana, etc. being in FCS with the costs associated to compete at the FBS level.

He said he really enjoys watching the FCS games and the quality he sees at this level. Of course you'd expect him to say something good being the former AD at NAU and being interviewed on their station but he seemed real genuine and excited to be at what he called a "big game" to him and the fans.

Needless to say I really like the guy because he doesn't seem full of ****.

TJ - highest paid AD in the country - not bad for a former kicker from NAU.

He was there when I worked in the athletic department - he was assistant AD then.

[dbackjon]

He is possibly the best AD in all of athletics. He has given Louisville the resources to be a top 25 team in nearly all sports, men's and women's.

He is - he is great at identifying the coaches he needs to make the sports successful.

He did steal NAU's XC/Track coach :(

[MplsBison]

Sure thing. I'm a big fan of how you think going from one extreme to another is what makes a proper point. Good for you.xthumbsupx

All the same, I'm gonna go ahead and trust his opinion over yours ciz he knows a little something about what talks about.

If saving costs is good, then saving more costs has to be better.

Simple logic.

[dbackjon]

If saving costs is good, then saving more costs has to be better.

Simple logic.

So when does NDSU drop athletics all together?

Got start somewhere.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

If saving costs is good, then saving more costs has to be better.

Simple logic.

Sure thing tiger.

[MplsBison]

So when does NDSU drop athletics all together?

Got start somewhere.

Exactly, thank you for agreeing with me. The guy at Louisville needs to talk only about what he knows: a big time college where it's easy to get money to do whatever you want.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Exactly, thank you for agreeing with me. The guy at Louisville needs to talk only about what he knows: a big time college where it's easy to get money to do whatever you want.

You've had such an *** beating lately that you ain't even trying anymore.xlolx

[Sycamore51]

UofL isn't a "large college" at all. It is roughly 20,000 students and it's a regional university. Not long ago UofL was in the Metro Conference in all sports but football which was an indy. They did have success in basketball, but all other sports were terrible. Since TJ has been there they have added several sports, been to multiple final fours, went from C-USA to the Big East, been to a BCS game, opened a new basketball arena, basball stadium, soccer stadium, lacross stadium, field hockey stadium, and been to the NCAA tourney in nearly every sport. A decade ago they could only hope to make the Liberty Bowl, the basketball program was in the crapper, and facilites across the board were awful.

[clenz]

U of L has by FAR the nicest facilities I've ever seen.....I've seen quite a few colleges.....and I haven't been on their campus in probably 5 years.

[Sycamore51]

The actual campus at UofL is kind of in the gheto, and not very attractive at all. It is very small and compact to say the least. That total of 20,000 students also includes their campus in Shelby County, so the actual size of the real campus is closer to 15,000. Almost all of the facilities have either been built or had a huge upgrade in the past 10 years.

[MplsBison]

UofL isn't a "large college" at all. It is roughly 20,000 students and it's a regional university. Not long ago UofL was in the Metro Conference in all sports but football which was an indy. They did have success in basketball, but all other sports were terrible. Since TJ has been there they have added several sports, been to multiple final fours, went from C-USA to the Big East, been to a BCS game, opened a new basketball arena, basball stadium, soccer stadium, lacross stadium, field hockey stadium, and been to the NCAA tourney in nearly every sport. A decade ago they could only hope to make the Liberty Bowl, the basketball program was in the crapper, and facilites across the board were awful.

Yep, no doubt. They are a medium sized, regional college.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/lou/sports/m-footbl/auto_player/6077022.jpeg

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/lou/sports/genrel/auto_original/5578966.jpeg


No doubt they're fighting for every $10k donation they can get, these days.

[clenz]

I don't know of regional is the best word for UL but it's closer to the truth than national. They patent struggling for finances in athletics, and have some very good academic programs, but due to their size they are still a regional school. If things continue the way they've been going the last decade or so they won't be little brother in Kentucky for very long

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[TheRevSFA]

I don't know of regional is the best word for UL but it's closer to the truth than national. They patent struggling for finances in athletics, and have some very good academic programs, but due to their size they are still a regional school. If things continue the way they've been going the last decade or so they won't be little brother in Kentucky for very long

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

Don't bother arguing with Mpls. He's already decided he's correct and is a guru of everything football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If this thread had a more competent author, perhaps it would be: "Big Sky Makes Play For WAC Schools" xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

UofL isn't a "large college" at all. It is roughly 20,000 students and it's a regional university. Not long ago UofL was in the Metro Conference in all sports but football which was an indy. They did have success in basketball, but all other sports were terrible. Since TJ has been there they have added several sports, been to multiple final fours, went from C-USA to the Big East, been to a BCS game, opened a new basketball arena, basball stadium, soccer stadium, lacross stadium, field hockey stadium, and been to the NCAA tourney in nearly every sport. A decade ago they could only hope to make the Liberty Bowl, the basketball program was in the crapper, and facilites across the board were awful.

I actually thought Louisville had some really good teams in the 1990's. Didn't they win the Fiesta Bowl in '91 or so?

Temple, Cincinnati, Pitt and Louisville are are very similar schools imo. Large, urban, research universities in the shadow of their big brother.

[dgtw]

The WAC seems to be hanging on.

http://www.heraldextra.com/sports/college/uvu/source-uvu-gets-wac-invite/article_e9f3b48e-0f1e-11e2-99ec-001a4bcf887a.html

Utah Valley and Cal State Bakersfield have accepted invitations to join, which will give them six members, if Idaho does not go to the Big Sky.

[bojeta]

I don't care enough about this to dig too deep, but I'm thinking there exists an easy option for Big Sky members to jump en masse to FBS if they choose. The Big West was Div I. Cal Poly and Davis are members in most other sports. They could be the intiators, and four to nine other members of the Big Sky move with them to re-establish football in the Big West. Perhaps Long Beach, Northridge or Fullerton make the move as well.

[Twentysix]

I actually thought Louisville had some really good teams in the 1990's. Didn't they win the Fiesta Bowl in '91 or so?

Temple, Cincinnati, Pitt and Louisville are are very similar schools imo. Large, urban, research universities in the shadow of their big brother.

In 2010 Pitt-main campus had nearly 1 billion dollars in research expenditures($822,491,000), they were the #11 and are an AAU member. Penn State #14, 50 million less than Pitt.

Temple by comparison had $124,528,000 hardly comparible. #100+

Cinci ($411,269,000) #46

Louisville ($189,090,000) #100+

As research dollars is one of the most important things when comparing schools, I would say these schools are not similar.

http://www.ns.umich.edu/Releases/2012/Mar12/research-tab15.xls

[darell1976]

I don't care enough about this to dig too deep, but I'm thinking there exists an easy option for Big Sky members to jump en masse to FBS if they choose. The Big West was Div I. Cal Poly and Davis are members in most other sports. They could be the intiators, and four to nine other members of the Big Sky move with them to re-establish football in the Big West. Perhaps Long Beach, Northridge or Fullerton make the move as well.

UND is an affiliate member of the WAC in swimming. Maybe that would get their foot in the door (if the WAC exists in the next 10-15 years).

[MplsBison]

The WAC seems to be hanging on.

http://www.heraldextra.com/sports/college/uvu/source-uvu-gets-wac-invite/article_e9f3b48e-0f1e-11e2-99ec-001a4bcf887a.html

Utah Valley and Cal State Bakersfield have accepted invitations to join, which will give them six members, if Idaho does not go to the Big Sky.

Since Boise is (stupidly) going to the Big West for non-football instead of the Big Sky and Idaho is probably going to join the Big Sky for non-football, that leaves the WAC with a pretty darn disfunctional membership of Seattle (which would kill to be in the WCC), Denver (which should seek to join Colorado College in DIII with a DI hockey exemption), New Mexico St (who knows if they can pull a MWC or Sun Belt invitation out of their hats) and newcomers Utah Valley and Cal St Bakersfield (which would kill to be in the Big West).

Who else is even out there to add except Great West teams that can't find homes? Chicago State, UT Pan American and NJ Tech.

[TheRevSFA]

Since Boise is (stupidly) going to the Big West for non-football instead of the Big Sky and Idaho is probably going to join the Big Sky for non-football, that leaves the WAC with a pretty darn disfunctional membership of Seattle (which would kill to be in the WCC), Denver (which should seek to join Colorado College in DIII with a DI hockey exemption), New Mexico St (who knows if they can pull a MWC or Sun Belt invitation out of their hats) and newcomers Utah Valley and Cal St Bakersfield (which would kill to be in the Big West).

Who else is even out there to add except Great West teams that can't find homes? Chicago State, UT Pan American and NJ Tech.

I'd put money that the WAC looks to Sam Houston, SFA, and Lamar to fill in.

[MplsBison]

I'd put money that the WAC looks to Sam Houston, SFA, and Lamar to fill in.

Well if you're going to add that group you might as well at UTPA at the same time. Not saying it's a bad idea.

I guess a football conference of Idaho, NM St and three Southlands wouldn't be terrible. Why not add McNeese at the same time as well? Then you get two sets of football rivals from the Southland with all fairly comparable facilities.

[TheRevSFA]

Well if you're going to add that group you might as well at UTPA at the same time. Not saying it's a bad idea.

I guess a football conference of Idaho, NM St and three Southlands wouldn't be terrible. Why not add McNeese at the same time as well? Then you get two sets of football rivals from the Southland with all fairly comparable facilities.

The WAC will want FB schools. UTPA has said they want to add football, but lack it at the moment.

SFA's stadium can hold 25k, and they have the kind of fans that if you said "WAC" they'd go to the games. Sad but true.

[MplsBison]

The WAC will want FB schools. UTPA has said they want to add football, but lack it at the moment.

SFA's stadium can hold 25k, and they have the kind of fans that if you said "WAC" they'd go to the games. Sad but true.

Yes of course, but I'm just saying from the point of the basketball conference. UTPA is basically another "free" addition if they're going to add a bunch of Southland schools in that area anyway. Pad the membership.

[darell1976]

Doug Fullerton (BSC commish) said during the UND-EWU game (he was in attendance) that the Big Sky is still in talks with Idaho for them to come back to the Big Sky. I think UI coming back to the Big Sky is going to be a reality.

[JALMOND]

Doug Fullerton (BSC commish) said during the UND-EWU game (he was in attendance) that the Big Sky is still in talks with Idaho for them to come back to the Big Sky. I think UI coming back to the Big Sky is going to be a reality.

Nothing new. Idaho has had an open invitation to come back to the Big Sky ever since they were in the Sun Belt. Fullerton would be wise to keep that line open.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

WAC is done. So much for making a play for Big Sky schools.

[darell1976]

WAC is done. So much for making a play for Big Sky schools.

How screwed would Montana and MSU be if they joined the WAC. Good move to stay put.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

WAC is done. So much for making a play for Big Sky schools.

They made a play for six of them over the last couple of years and were turned down.

[dgtw]

If I'm the WAC, I just go ahead and invite the other three Great West schools. Granted, Chicago State, Pan American and Jersey Tech don't add much and travel would be a bitch, but at least it would save the league and its autobids.

I wonder why the NCAA can't step in and force leagues to take in orphaned teams. I mean, how bad must the travel budget be at NJIT?

[walliver]

...

I wonder why the NCAA can't step in and force leagues to take in orphaned teams. I mean, how bad must the travel budget be at NJIT?

If that were the case, the NCAA would demand that C-USA take ASU (they aren't orphaned, but are being imprisoned by the "small privates" in the SoCon). They would be there by themselves, of course, since every team in C-USA would demand to be in the Big East.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

If I'm the WAC, I just go ahead and invite the other three Great West schools. Granted, Chicago State, Pan American and Jersey Tech don't add much and travel would be a bitch, but at least it would save the league and its autobids.

I wonder why the NCAA can't step in and force leagues to take in orphaned teams. I mean, how bad must the travel budget be at NJIT?

You really want the NCAA who has had it's share of F ups and shown some real poor judgement to have control over what conferences decide is in their best interest to survive and thrive?

I don't think so.

You make yourself pretty enough to get asked out or you have something that the other party would like to have you be a part of. Enough of the welfare, earn your own keep and get in shape.

[dgtw]

I agree its probably not something we want the NCAA to get involved with, I just feel bad for those left on the outside looking in. Idaho at least seems welcome in the Big Sky.

[superman7515]

New Mexico State doing a good job of staying alive as an Independent:
2013 Football Schedule
8/31 @ Texas
9/7 vs Minnesota
9/14 vs UTEP
9/21 @ UCLA
9/28 vs San Diego State
10/5 @ New Mexico
10/19 vs Rice
10/26 vs Abilene Christian
11/2 @ LSU
11/9 vs Boston College
11/23 @ Florida Atlantic
11/30 vs Idaho

7 home games including a couple of BCS schools coming to them.

[DFW HOYA]

There have been independents since the start of college football. It takes a little more patience and disclipline, but it's certainly possible to do so.

[Model Citizen]

There have been independents since the start of college football.

edited.......

[superman7515]

Except for 1931-82. Some people posting here were alive during that period.

You're saying there were no Independents between 1931 and 1982?

[Model Citizen]

Sorry. Misread his post.

With all the automatic bids to bowls/playoffs, how many indies are there now?

[superman7515]

Notre Dame, BYU, Idaho, New Mexico State, Army, Navy... I'm pretty sure that Charlotte and Old Dominion are considered FCS Independent and not FBS this coming season, but I feel like I'm missing someone and I dunno why.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

New Mexico State doing a good job of staying alive as an Independent:
2013 Football Schedule
8/31 @ Texas
9/7 vs Minnesota
9/14 vs UTEP
9/21 @ UCLA
9/28 vs San Diego State
10/5 @ New Mexico
10/19 vs Rice
10/26 vs Abilene Christian
11/2 @ LSU
11/9 vs Boston College
11/23 @ Florida Atlantic
11/30 vs Idaho

7 home games including a couple of BCS schools coming to them.

So let me get this straight - New Mexico State didn't play a Division I Counter on this date... why, exactly? No FCS open dates? They don't care about qualifying for a bowl? Can't afford to pay an FCS guarantee?

They will have fun trying to "make money" with this schedule. Without a realistic postseason opportunity.

[ASUMountaineer]

So let me get this straight - New Mexico State didn't play a Division I Counter on this date... why, exactly? No FCS open dates? They don't care about qualifying for a bowl? Can't afford to pay an FCS guarantee?

They will have fun trying to "make money" with this schedule. Without a realistic postseason opportunity.

And, the broken record plays. NMSU doesn't have a choice, but they are trying. Best of luck to them.

[nwFL Griz]

Notre Dame, BYU, Idaho, New Mexico State, Army, Navy... I'm pretty sure that Charlotte and Old Dominion are considered FCS Independent and not FBS this coming season, but I feel like I'm missing someone and I dunno why.

You're not missing any. Those are the six FBS independents for 2013.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

And, the broken record plays. NMSU doesn't have a choice, but they are trying. Best of luck to them.

The biggest lie of all.

[ASUMountaineer]

The biggest lie of all.

Ahh, nice. So, I'm a liar? Perhaps I can make it clearer for you, I know you seem to only understand bashing FBS. NMSU doesn't have a choice but to be independent if it chooses to remain FBS (at this point). Did that make it easier for you, LFN?

Would you like to speak the truth, then? And please, be as unbiased as possible.

[Laker]

And, the broken record plays. NMSU doesn't have a choice, but they are trying. Best of luck to them.

Two seasons ago they beat the Gophers in Minneapolis. I see that Minnesota is playing NMSU on the road. That should be interesting.

[dgtw]

The WAC has a new member.


The Western Athletic Conference announced today that the University of Missouri-Kansas City has accepted an invitation for membership to join the conference effective July 1, 2013.

UMKC becomes the ninth member of the conference in 2013-14, joining California State University, Bakersfield; Chicago State University; Grand Canyon University; University of Idaho; New Mexico State University; Seattle University, The University of Texas-Pan American and Utah Valley University.

http://www.wacsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10100&ATCLID=206317161

[BisonBacker]

Right now that conference sounds like a ClusterF_CK

[ccd494]

What the heck is UMKC thinking? Although, if you were going to trade Denver straight up for UMKC, you take Denver every time. Good job Summit League?

[Laker]

What the heck is UMKC thinking? Although, if you were going to trade Denver straight up for UMKC, you take Denver every time. Good job Summit League?

I've wondered about that too. UMKC has never made the NCAA tourney. I don't understand them going west to travel even more. Some of these moves amaze me.

[BisonBacker]

It's plain stupidity. UMKC must be led by fools if they think this is going to save them $$$$$. Not to mention that Idaho is gone after next year, and you can bet New Mexico State will be gone the first opportunity they get. This one just makes me chuckle. I'll take Denver over UMKC thank you very much!

[Laker]

I'll take Denver over UMKC thank you very much!

One thing that we know for sure- Denver's hockey team is better. xsmiley_wix

[BisonBacker]

With this new WAC I can't help but think of this.....

http://www.halfassedproductions.com/articles/120105/wrong2.jpg

[darell1976]

I've wondered about that too. UMKC has never made the NCAA tourney. I don't understand them going west to travel even more. Some of these moves amaze me.

The only success UMKC has had was in minor sports: golf, men's soccer and track. No basketball (both men's and women's) titles, no volleyball, no baseball titles. Still a head scratcher, but maybe they feel the competition was too strong in the SL and figure the WAC was easier to compete.

[AmsterBison]

With this new WAC I can't help but think of this.....

http://www.halfassedproductions.com/articles/120105/wrong2.jpg

Or this:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jCQUZFXFolM/TonQh-oOwfI/AAAAAAAABHw/3gSC3Up2fQc/s1600/tumblr_kw16k3HGKo1qzhiqwo1_500.png

[JSUBison]

What the heck is UMKC thinking? Although, if you were going to trade Denver straight up for UMKC, you take Denver every time. Good job Summit League?

Denver's AD told their beat writer that she knew UMKC was leaving the Summit when Denver joined. I think UMKC is going to have a press conference tomorrow or the day after to explain it. I hope the press doesn't let the AD give a bunch of spin and BS, it would be nice to hear the actual reason and thought process behind it. I think UMKC will basically say they suck and have no money to compete in the Summit, so they felt they have a better chance against the collection of misfits and diploma mills in the new WAC.

[chrisattsu]

The speculation on the WAC and CSN Conference Realignment boards is that UMKC is jumping to the WAC because they know something is coming down the pipe.

Their guess is that the "Catholic 7" is getting ready to poach some members from the Missouri Valley (Creighton), Horizon leagues (Milwaukee, Valpo), and A10 conferenc. This would mean that these leagues would need to reload and the Summit would likely be picked apart.The Indiana schools and Oakland fit the footprint of the Horizon and the Dakotas already play football in the Missouri Valley.

UMKC worried about being left behind and jumped (similar to Colorado's jump to the PAC while the Texas Big XII schools discussed it). Some are even speculating that Nebraska Omaha might jump with them in the next few days.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't know how serious it is/was, but Oakland (MI) had a student group that was looking to start Golden Grizzly football. Might Oakland skip right over the Horizon and jump directly to the Missouri Valley? No idea how possible that is.

More to the point, why would the OBE7 come after UW-Milwaukee or Valpo? Their interest in A-10 schools is well documented as well as Creighton (though that one I'm still not all that sure about). But these two Horizon schools seem more like wishful thinking to those schools. IMO, the OBE7 would clearly take VCU over either of the Horizon schools.

The A-10 would probably reload with George Mason for starters. After that, it's less clear. I think it's a lot more likely Creighton ends up in the A-10 than with the OBE7.

Basically, what is UMKC thinking? It's hard to see the Horizon truly raided in this - much more likely the leagues back East, notably the CAA, will be pilfered first by the A-10. If schools move around, it's likely to only be 1-2 schools in the Missouri Valley or Horizon.

[RabidRabbit]

I don't know how serious it is/was, but Oakland (MI) had a student group that was looking to start Golden Grizzly football. Might Oakland skip right over the Horizon and jump directly to the Missouri Valley? No idea how possible that is.

More to the point, why would the OBE7 come after UW-Milwaukee or Valpo? Their interest in A-10 schools is well documented as well as Creighton (though that one I'm still not all that sure about). But these two Horizon schools seem more like wishful thinking to those schools. IMO, the OBE7 would clearly take VCU over either of the Horizon schools.

The A-10 would probably reload with George Mason for starters. After that, it's less clear. I think it's a lot more likely Creighton ends up in the A-10 than with the OBE7.

Basically, what is UMKC thinking? It's hard to see the Horizon truly raided in this - much more likely the leagues back East, notably the CAA, will be pilfered first by the A-10. If schools move around, it's likely to only be 1-2 schools in the Missouri Valley or Horizon.

UMKC made the choice to join a lower quality league to improve the 'Roos chances of actually winning. They are hoping to be successful at the 30 RPI conference, since they had no success at the 16th to 22nd rated conference.

[ysubigred]

Or this:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jCQUZFXFolM/TonQh-oOwfI/AAAAAAAABHw/3gSC3Up2fQc/s1600/tumblr_kw16k3HGKo1qzhiqwo1_500.png

Or this:

http://media.merchantcircle.com/19480841/doxie_grass_full.jpeg

This:

http://www.graziadaily.co.uk/pub/21publish/t/talkingpoints/belgian-disability-non-profit-group-cap48-ad-tanja-kiewitz-240ls102010-1287590168.jpg

And this:

http://donrosenberger.150m.com/protestwarrior/obama/president/ObamaHellNo.jpg

[AmsterBison]

UMKC made the choice to join a lower quality league to improve the 'Roos chances of actually winning. They are hoping to be successful at the 30 RPI conference, since they had no success at the 16th to 22nd rated conference.

But, hey, the RPI in both conferences will go up.

[Hammerhead]

I don't think being in a lower-tier FBS conference really gives a school that much more national exposure. Your typical SEC or B1G fan doesn't care about NMSU or ISU, than they do about Montana State or ND State. All 4 schools are completely under their radar.



Those schools don't have that thing that prompts a lot of fans to think they need some notoriety that is claimed FBS would give them. ...