Patriot League Recruiting - GEORGETOWN

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.guhoyas.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/050312aaa.html

DFW Hoyas' favorite day is finally here. carney, I'm begging you, get these going now, because I am dying to talk about anything but conference realignment.

[Bogus Megapardus]

A 6'5" 280 lb. OL who also played lacrosse? I love it. That I'd pay to see. Just park that bad boy in the crease and leave him there.


EDIT - Wow, and another 6-6/275 OL who also played lacrosse, in Garden City, L.I., no less.

[carney2]

GEORGETOWN - 40

The most amazing thing about this Georgetown recruiting class is that it is not the last in the Patriot League to report. No one on The Committee can remember the last time that happened.

As befits a national university, Coach Kelly's recruits come from all over these United States. He even has kids listed from the Congo and Japan, but they actually played their high school football in more traditional mainland U.S. football hotspots.

If you are getting the impression that The Committee is meandering you would be correct. Frankly, we have been waiting/hoping for something positive to leap to mind about this group. It just isn't happening. Like Bucknell's 2011 recruiting class, the one word description that occurs is leftovers. Probably the timing of the May announcement has something to do with the word choice, but it still seems appropriate. If scholarships lead to an uptick in the overall level of Patriot League play, and if the Hoyas, as most suspect, choose not to participate, or to participate only marginally, it is hard to visualize this group as competitive. Kelly had a good class last year and with a good year in 2013 could end up cherry picking this group without disastrous consequences.

THE GOOD
Some more large OLs to add to those recruited in the last two years. Four recruits, 3 Jumbos and 1 rated. Unfortunately, OL was not a major recruiting need.

Kelly seems to have met his needs at LB.

One more time: Georgetown was not the last to report!

THE BAD
It's difficult to know where to begin. It's mostly bad, so let's just move to the details.

QUALITY = 11: 11 of the 22 recruits are rated, none with any star ratings. 50% Rated would usually be acceptable for a Patriot league school. Unfortunately, The Committee does not see much Quality here.

CLASS SIZE = 3: 22 Recruits. One of the smaller classes so far, but Georgetown may not need to stock the shelves in anticipation of scholarship limits.

DISTRIBUTION = 7: No recruited kickers.

SPEED = 10: The usual disclaimer that reliable speed information is hard to come by.

TRIGGER = 0: Two QBs, one Rated, neither with any star ratings.

JUMBO = 3: 4 OL and 2 DL; 3 OL and no DL meet and beat the Jumbo criteria.

NEEDS = 6 (of 12):
DB = 1 (of 5): 2 recruits, 1 Rated, no stars. It is hard to see that the Hoyas met their number 1 need.
LB = 4 (of 4): 5 recruits, 4 Rated, no stars. Quantity and apparent quality, although The Committee would have liked to see something better than bare minimum ratings for some.
QB = 1 (of 3): 2 recruits, 1 Rated, no stars. Considering some of the QB talent floating around the League this does not appear to be a dream come true duo.

COMMITTEE ADJUSTMENTS = O
There are no obvious inequities, so there is no reason for an adjustment.

THE RATINGS RACE WITH 1 TO GO:

Lafayette 67
Lehigh 62
Colgate 56
Holy Cross 54
Fordham 47
Georgetown 40

[Bogus Megapardus]

The QB from Christian Bros. in Syracuse has a serious case of happy feet on his highlight film as well as a very unusual throwing motion. But he looks deadly accurate on his throws and he's 6'4". Even his 45 yard throws are right on the money. Plus he got a 1480 on his 2-part SAT and a 99.7 grade average. This is not a low band AI admit. MplsBison will be infuriated, I assume.

Hmmm . . . turns out the kid's older brother is the current long snapper (and possibly future center) for Syracuse and his grandfather is Dick MacPherson, who was the head coach at Syracuse from 1981 to 1990 including their undefeated 1987 season. And it appears that the kid also spent his career at Christian Bros. behind Harvard's (also 6'4") QB Tyler Hamblin until his senior year.

As far as bloodline recruits go, he's certainly . . . umm . . . taller than Deuce Gruden.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The QB from Choate doesn't look like he's in the same league as the Christian Bros. kid by any stretch. The competition in the Christian Bros. games looks like it's at a much higher level and the Christian Bros. QB looks like he makes multiple reads and delivers a lot more accurately. The Choate games look like they're powder puff contests at half speed, by comparison. Take a look at the extended "effort" by the interior line on both sides.

Yet much praise recently was bestowed upon the Choate QB by Phillips Andover head coach Leon Modeste. And that's high praise indeed because Andover actually was getting set to play - now get this - against a public school. How low-brow of them. Imagine if Exeter did that. Oh, those silly one-percenters.

Nolan, a specimen of a quarterback at 6-5 and 220 pounds, ran the Choate attack with senior discipline. He threw for 232 yards and a touchdown, commanded a 228-yard ground attack, and made so many good decisions that Choate scored on seven of its nine possessions including the last five.

"Nolan is polished, tall and a fine athlete," said Modeste, who now sets his sights on a rare opponent, a public school in North Andover this weekend.

http://www.eagletribune.com/sports/x1168424842/High-School-Football-Phillips-grows-in-loss-to-Choate

[Bogus Megapardus]

Looking at it once more, I hereby lodge an Official Appeal to The Committee to re-evaluate the Christian Bros. QB in light of his size and accuracy, and the fact that his exceptional academic profile means that he really didn't need to be "recruited" in the traditional sense or take steps to be rated by the ordinary services.

The Committee will have to decide if this warrants an upward adjustment in Georgetown's Patsy Rating.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7yxosv7G3U

[carney2]

Looking at it once more, I hereby lodge an Official Appeal to The Committee to re-evaluate the Christian Bros. QB in light of his size and accuracy, and the fact that his exceptional academic profile means that he really didn't need to be "recruited" in the traditional sense or take steps to be rated by the ordinary services.

The Committee will have to decide if this warrants an upward adjustment in Georgetown's Patsy Rating.

Appeal denied.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Appeal denied.


Understood. I assume that The Committee balanced the Christian Bros. kid against the relatively mediocre (at least to me) display by the Choate QB in coming to its initial "trigger" and "adjustments" decisions.

I'd still like to hear from Georgetown (and other PL) fans after watching that video of the Christian Bros. QB.

[carney2]

Understood. I assume that The Committee balanced the Christian Bros. kid against the relatively mediocre (at least to me) display by the Choate QB in coming to its initial "trigger" and "adjustments" decisions.

I'd still like to hear from Georgetown (and other PL) fans after watching that video of the Christian Bros. QB.

What part of "objective" is difficult for you? It is the linchpin for the Patsy Ratings.

"Trigger" = An attempt to properly value QB as the most important position on a college football team by awarding extra (Trigger) Patsy Points to QBs with star ratings from any of the rating services. Objective. There is no "decision." There are stars, or there are no stars.

"Adjustments" = An attempt to correct inequities created by the system. Two examples come immediately to mind: (1) A few years ago Georgetown signed 7 QBs, many with star ratings, and they amassed a huge quantity of Patsy Points without much else in their recruiting class. (2) This year a late addition wide receiver for Lehigh added 11 Patsy Points all by himself, what with star ratings, speed and confirmation points. It was thought to be excessive for a player who might touch the ball 10 or so times in a normal game, and would be dependent on an above average QB pairing to reach his full potential. Granted, some subjectivity, I guess. That is why it is used less and less frequently. In any event, it is hard to see how the system created any inequities in the case you describe.

All of what you say may be true, but wanders pretty far into the land of subjective judgment.

[Bogus Megapardus]

What part of "objective" is difficult for you? It is the linchpin for the Patsy Ratings.

"Trigger" = An attempt to properly value QB as the most important position on a college football team by awarding extra (Trigger) Patsy Points to QBs with star ratings from any of the rating services. Objective. There is no "decision." There are stars, or there are no stars.

"Adjustments" = An attempt to correct inequities created by the system. Two examples come immediately to mind: (1) A few years ago Georgetown signed 7 QBs, many with star ratings, and they amassed a huge quantity of Patsy Points without much else in their recruiting class. (2) This year a late addition wide receiver for Lehigh added 11 Patsy Points all by himself, what with star ratings, speed and confirmation points. It was thought to be excessive for a player who might touch the ball 10 or so times in a normal game, and would be dependent on an above average QB pairing to reach his full potential. Granted, some subjectivity, I guess. That is why it is used less and less frequently. In any event, it is hard to see how the system created any inequities in the case you describe.

All of what you say may be true, but wanders pretty far into the land of subjective judgment.

Perhaps I seized on the following comment, and was swayed by what appeared to be a scintilla of wiggle room in The Committee's initial assessment:

"11 of the 22 recruits are rated, none with any star ratings. 50% Rated would usually be acceptable for a Patriot league school. Unfortunately, The Committee does not see much Quality here."

I did see "much Quality" and hence the appeal. I had also imagined that the Christian Bros. QB's "not rated" status might be altered to a de facto "should have been rated" for purposes of the The Committee's objective analysis. I am hopeful that my errant beseechment on behalf our Hoya brethren will not reflect negatively upon future petitions for The Committee's favor.

[carney2]

Perhaps I seized on the following comment, and was swayed by what appeared to be a scintilla of wiggle room in The Committee's initial assessment:

"11 of the 22 recruits are rated, none with any star ratings. 50% Rated would usually be acceptable for a Patriot league school. Unfortunately, The Committee does not see much Quality here."

I did see "much Quality" and hence the appeal. I am hopeful that my errant beseechment on behalf our Hoya brethren will not reflect negatively upon future petitions for The Committee's favor.

A simple opinion that did not, and can not, affect the assignment of Patsy Points. 11 Points based on the 3 rating systems involved. The "opinion" is that these did not appear to be particularly strong ratings across the board. I point to the ESPN ratings to support this conclusion. In addition to stars or merely "ratings" (mentions), ESPN will frequently offer a score and/or a position rank. The rock bottom fog-a-mirror score is a 40. In almost no case did any of these rated recruits merit even that 40.

One more time: If you, me, LFN, and CR took a list of recruits and a copy of the Patsy Rules we would get the exact same number down to the Needs section. No difference. The Needs and their order are determined by AGS posters for different teams. You, me, Andy, Franks, etc. for Lafayette. LFN, RichH, Van, etc. for Lehigh. DFW is pretty much the trusted Lone Ranger for Georgetown. Again, just like the rules, predetermined and not capable of change. Assigning the 5, 4, and 3 points for meeting each need - ah, there you have your first, and I hope only, subjective valuation.

As for beseechments and petitions, go nuts. Do what you will. You are going to have to be pretty creative however to petition for a change to

2 + 2 = 4.

"Petitions" that have worked have invariably been based on the proposition that carney is an idiot and made an error of fact, not judgment. Lots of that going on.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I acknowledge and respect The Committee's criteria. I also understand that a mere mention by one of the generally-accepted formulators (even if it is a "40" by ESPN, for example) necessarily must result in a mandated uptick in Patsy Points. But there's no room for "should have been rated" even if the Choate kid sucks and he's rated, and the Christian Bros. kid is a phenom and he's not rated. That's just the way the Patsy Pounces.

The Committee's willingness to take the time and to expend precious resources in review of this matter, and to render a thoughtful, well-reasoned opinion on appeal, is gratefully appreciated. It substantiates the rigor and validity of the Patsy Ratings and provides a substantial basis for concluding that the Patsy Ratings will be a prominent part of our off-season lives for many years to come.

[carney2]

I acknowledge and respect The Committee's criteria. I also understand that a mere mention by one of the generally-accepted formulators (even if it is a "40" by ESPN, for example) necessarily must result in a mandated uptick in Patsy Points.

No. You don't understand at all. Using 5 words to put it as simply as I can,

I don't make this up.

No extra Patsy Points for the 40, or a 45, or a... Rated without any stars = 1, and only one, Quality point. 1 star = 3 Quality points (1 for being rated + 2 for the star). A 45 for a Rated, but unstarred, recruit is still one point, the same as the Rated recruit who got no stars, but 40 points, or, like most of these Georgetown recruits, was rated with no points shown at all. All ONE point. You are confusing the words and the music. We add up the points (the music) and get the number - in this case 40 Patsy Points. Our musical score is completed. Now I, like PBS's Mark Russell, enter the picture and add the words. Perhaps I'm feeling good and love life - in which case Coach Kelly might have done very well inded. Perhaps I've remembered that I'm still married and am feeling vindictive - and you should have seen my original write-up for Georgetown before I toned it down. The words. My words. Different each time. But - and here is what you seem to be missing - the music stays the same. It's still 40 points, whether I pat Kelly on the back or kick him in the rump. One more time, repeat after me,

I don't make this up.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

After wandering in from the other threads, it's like coming from the air in Bejing and finding ones self in the middle of Yellowstone - a breath of fresh air.

[Sader87]

Thank Christ this foolishness will end after this year when we actually have scholarship recruits (once again on Holy Cross' part).....

[ngineer]

Enjoying the 'torch bearer' role Bogie has assumed for the Hoyas. DFW must be humming "You've got a Friend". (;-)

[RichH2]

Carney is correct as to Patsy score, really no wiggle there. Actual quality. Flagg and Tx rb and Bell are high Q kids. Qbs are both projects but could develop. Overall not much immediate help but s/b solid group as upperclassmen. Maybe as manny as 10-12 of them. Good size for Ol even if not much athleticism.

[TheValleyRaider]

Enjoying the 'torch bearer' role Bogie has assumed for the Hoyas. DFW must be humming "You've got a Friend". (;-)

Or after the video incident in the fall, perhaps it's "With Friends like these...."

[Bogus Megapardus]

This week's off-season AGS entertainment brought to you by your Friendly Neighborhood Patriot League! xrolleyesx Specialists in tongue-in-cheek satire and authorities of thread-hijacking expertise.

[MplsBison]

Does Georgetown (or any PL school for that matter) have camps in the summer for recruits to come in and be evaluated by the coaches?

Or how does G-town do it? Do they say "ok he has good grades, good test scores and his height and weight seem to be reasonable - let's send him a brochure"?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Or after the video incident in the fall, perhaps it's "With Friends like these...."


We shall be avenged. Oh, yes . . . we shall be avenged.




http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5684/notvavilogo.png

[Bogus Megapardus]

Does Georgetown (or any PL school for that matter) have camps in the summer for recruits to come in and be evaluated by the coaches?

Or how does G-town do it? Do they say "ok he has good grades, good test scores and his height and weight seem to be reasonable - let's send him a brochure"?


Now you're caught us, MplsBison. You've figured it all out, you whip-smart genius, you. Patriot coaches never hold camps, host campus visits, travel to high school games or evaluate film. In fact, they never see the recruits all all until the recruits show up in August.

That's becasue, each year, new players are genetically spliced from existing cryogenically frozen DNA stock. Then they are decanted and cultured in a patented emulsion in underground bioengineering laboratories located in Center Valley, Pennsylvania. After a nine week incubation cycle, mature samples are distributed to each Patriot League campus, depending upon the uniform color and insignia in which they emerge.

The truth is out.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You should tell him about the "Weiss rule", where coaches aren't allowed to see film or evaluate players until after Patriot League media day for incoming recruits.

Except if they're puppet shows. xlolx

[DFW HOYA]

Does Georgetown (or any PL school for that matter) have camps in the summer for recruits to come in and be evaluated by the coaches?


There are two instructional skills camps held in the summer. By NCAA rules, however, a participant in a summer camp is limited to a 100 mile radius of the campus.

A 100 mile radius of Georgetown University is York, PA (to the north), Dover, DE (to the east), Ashland, VA (to the south) and Berkeley Springs, WV (roughly to the west). Georgetown signed just one recruit within this radius this spring.

[MplsBison]

There are two instructional skills camps held in the summer. By NCAA rules, however, a participant in a summer camp is limited to a 100 mile radius of the campus.

A 100 mile radius of Georgetown University is York, PA (to the north), Dover, DE (to the east), Ashland, VA (to the south) and Berkeley Springs, WV (roughly to the west). Georgetown signed just one recruit within this radius this spring.

Every DI school I'm aware of in this region, including the Big Ten schools, hold camps in the summer in which potential recruits are invited (wink wink "strongly encouraged") to attend, so they may be evaluated by the coaching staff in person. These recruits are invited from all over the country, as far as I'm aware.

What NCAA rule are you talking about?

[DFW HOYA]

Every DI school I'm aware of in this region, including the Big Ten schools, hold camps in the summer in which potential recruits are invited (wink wink "strongly encouraged") to attend, so they may be evaluated by the coaching staff in person. These recruits are invited from all over the country, as far as I'm aware. What NCAA rule are you talking about?

See NCAA bylaws, section 13.12.

[heath]

pay your own way,and any high school player can attend any camp.Most do not attend smaller FCS camps,they attend larger schools and regional combines to get noticed.

[alvinkayak6]

the ncaa bylaws are so cryptic and confusing that coach saban made over 7 million dollars last year in total benefits. the ncaa has yet to figure out how this violates college amateurism rules, but are working hard on the case and will have a ruling soon

[MplsBison]

See NCAA bylaws, section 13.12.

Didn't read it. If the rule really does say something to the effect of what you're claiming, then it's a fake rule - like the 15k attendance rule in FBS.

Every school has a summer camp that it uses to evaluate potential recruits and players from far away parts of the country attend.