The Feds are going after Montana

[PAllen]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/02/us-usa-rape-montana-idUSBRE84103G20120502

"The investigation includes a review of the handling of sexual assault and harassment reports at the University of Montana at Missoula, where at least 11 student-related sex assault cases have surfaced in recent months."

I used to have a ton of respect for Montana, but the last six months has just been poetic justice.

[Sycamore51]

Indiana State calls dibs on the stadium if the program gets shut down!:D

[darell1976]

Has there been any talk about NCAA sanctions?

[Sycamore51]

Not that I've heard of, my comment was more about us needing a new stadium.

[darell1976]

Not that I've heard of, my comment was more about us needing a new stadium.

I did find your stadium comment funny, but on a serious note I was wondering if there was NCAA rules that were violated or if the NCAA have threatened sanctions.

[bojeta]

I did find your stadium comment funny, but on a serious note I was wondering if there was NCAA rules that were violated or if the NCAA have threatened sanctions.

Silly Darell.... they only sanction teams when they don't like the logo!! lol...
Seriously, I hope they don't sanction Montana's football program. There's not doubt they're the current flagship of the Big Sky and sanctions on them are essentially sanctions on the entire conference. On the other hand, I HAVE NO TOLERANCE FOR SEXUAL ASSAULT!!!! If the program itself was truly at fault, something has to be done.

[darell1976]

Silly Darell.... they only sanction teams when they don't like the logo!! lol...
Seriously, I hope they don't sanction Montana's football program. There's not doubt they're the current flagship of the Big Sky and sanctions on them are essentially sanctions on the entire conference. On the other hand, I HAVE NO TOLERANCE FOR SEXUAL ASSAULT!!!! If the program itself was truly at fault, something has to be done.

Ain't that the truth.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

LIES LIES LIES. Just ask 'em.

Montana's new slogan "University of Montana, not as rapey as you think!"

[KNUTS]

I used to have a ton of respect for Montana, but the last six months has just been poetic justice.

Poetic justice... Yeah I can see that? A nation wide problem that arises on all campuses in which Montana realized and took proper steps to correct by hiring outside counsel to investigate, revamping the student code of conduct, and terminating 2 well respected individuals of the university as a result. Yeah Montana deserves that...

I cant speak for everyone in Montana but I sense the general thought is we all want answers and we want the judicial system to take its course before we start burning the accused at the stake.

[StorminASU]

LIES LIES LIES. Just ask 'em.

Montana's new slogan "University of Montana, not as rapey as you think!"

xoutofrepx

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

LIES LIES LIES. Just ask 'em.

Montana's new slogan "University of Montana, not as rapey as you think!"

The scope of this investigation is larger than just the university, they are actually focused more on how the Missoula police department and county attorneys have handled rape cases over the past three years.

[Grizcountry420]

This isnt all about the football program or the University. A lot of the heat is being forced upon the Police Dept and the County Attorney on how they handle sexual assault reports in Missoula County.. Over 80 reports in a 3 year peroid..

[Squealofthepig]

I cant speak for everyone in Montana but I sense the general thought is we all want answers and we want the judicial system to take its course before we start burning the accused at the stake.

Absolutely agree. There's something rotten in Denmark, and we need to get it purged. Whatever transgressions have occurred, they need to be addressed and we'll happily take our lumps if it can make the campus safer. And if anyone in our program was complicit in enabling a rape culture - frankly, NCAA sanctions are deserved (same as I'd say for Penn State or Syracuse).

[eaglewraith]

So....Montana is ****ed is what you're saying.

Wait...that might be a poor choice of words.

[MplsBison]

LIES LIES LIES. Just ask 'em.

Montana's new slogan "University of Montana, not as rapey as you think!"

Are sexual assault and rape the same thing?

[MplsBison]

This isnt all about the football program or the University. A lot of the heat is being forced upon the Police Dept and the County Attorney on how they handle sexual assault reports in Missoula County.. Over 80 reports in a 3 year peroid..

"Boys will be boys..."

[Squealofthepig]

So....Montana is ****ed is what you're saying.

Wait...that might be a poor choice of words.

Yeah, hard subject to really joke about. And, as others have pointed out, it goes beyond the football program - like the Saudi national who was accused of rape, talked to by the Uni, then had the case handed over to the city/county - only to find that in that time he'd fled the country.

Story: http://missoulian.com/news/local/engstrom-um-right-to-alert-saudi-of-rape-accusation/article_cb1735d6-626c-11e1-8073-0019bb2963f4.html

[BEAR]

(Reuters) - The U.S. Justice Department unveiled a broad probe on Tuesday into complaints that authorities were failing to aggressively investigate sexual assault reports in Missoula, Montana, citing more than 80 reported rapes there during the past three years.


80....WTF?! Go hunting...go fishing....climb a bunch of those big rocky things you call mountains over and over again...find a hobby that doesn't involve striping someone of human dignity...I know rape happens and more often it isn't reported, which makes this situation worse, but c'mon Missoula....(yes, these weren't all on the campus).

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The scope of this investigation is larger than just the university, they are actually focused more on how the Missoula police department and county attorneys have handled rape cases over the past three years.

Ok then. How about "Missoula, the rapiest town you'll ever love!"

I should work in PR.

[HailSzczur]

Ok then. How about "Missoula, the rapiest town you'll ever love!"

I should work in PR.

Virginia is for lover's and Montana is for rapists? :D

But in all seriousness it's nice to finally see the feds stepping in. 80 rapes in a year is an alarming statistic and something needs to be done.

[Squealofthepig]

80 rapes in three years is an alarming statistic and something needs to be done.

FTFY. Not that that's any less alarming, really - I'd argue it's even worse, as it shows a much longer time frame.

[BEAR]

Not only that but what about the ones not reported because they figured the police WOULDN'T do anything about it anyway! Scary.

[HailSzczur]

FTFY. Not that that's any less alarming, really - I'd argue it's even worse, as it shows a much longer time frame.

Sorry, can't read.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Not only that but what about the ones not reported because they figured the police WOULDN'T do anything about it anyway! Scary.

Funny you should be so vocal about this and so scared since Conway Arkansas looks to be about double the national average on rapes?

That seems pretty scary too.

Latest 2006 Crimes per 100,000 People:
Conway, AR Missoula, MT National

Murder: 5.7 0 7
Forcible Rape: 66.55 59.82 32.2
Robbery: 116 47.2 205.8
Aggravated Assault: 167.3 185.8 336.5
Burglary: 747.3 521 813.2
Larceny Theft: 3504.3 4162.1 2601.7
Vehicle Theft: 349.9 236.1 501.5

Then Fargo in comparison

Latest 2006 Crimes per 100,000 People:
Fargo, ND Missoula, MT National

Murder: 2.2 0 7
Forcible Rape: 75.98 59.82 32.2
Robbery: 20.9 47.2 205.8
Aggravated Assault: 155.3 185.8 336.5
Burglary: 578.1 521 813.2
Larceny Theft: 2125.1 4162.1 2601.7
Vehicle Theft: 246.6 236.1 501.5


I didn't do a great deal of searching and there may be more recent #'s that I didn't see but y'all can sit around point if you feel like it. Good luck.xthumbsupx

[NoDak 4 Ever]

How about this one?

"Bozeman, we aren't as rapey as Missoula!"

I should have led with that one.

[Grizcountry420]

How about this one?

"Bozeman, we aren't as rapey as Missoula!"

I should have led with that one.

http://http://www.kpax.com/news/more-sex-assaults-reported-in-bozeman/

[ursus arctos horribilis]

How about this one?

"Bozeman, we aren't as rapey as Missoula!"

I should have led with that one.

Throw in a victimey and I'll start the T shirts on that one.

[Squealofthepig]

How about this one?

"Bozeman, we aren't as rapey as Missoula!"

I should have led with that one.


In 2011, there were 80 allegations of some type of sexual assault in Bozeman, [Bozeman Deputy Police Chief Rich] McLane said.

http://www.kpax.com/news/more-sex-assaults-reported-in-bozeman/

[Squealofthepig]

http://http://www.kpax.com/news/more-sex-assaults-reported-in-bozeman/

Heh, looks like I wasn't the only one ready with that. :)

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Heh, looks like I wasn't the only one ready with that. :)

Geez, what the hell is wrong with you Montanans?

[Squealofthepig]

Geez, what the hell is wrong with you Montanans?

Hey, don't look at me! I'm a supporter of you guys! I even have a great bumper sticker advertising North Dakota!

"Montana is full... I hear North Dakota is nice."

[BEAR]

Funny you should be so vocal about this and so scared since Conway Arkansas looks to be about double the national average on rapes?

That seems pretty scary too.

Latest 2006 Crimes per 100,000 People:
Conway, AR Missoula, MT National

Murder: 5.7 0 7
Forcible Rape: 66.55 59.82 32.2
Robbery: 116 47.2 205.8
Aggravated Assault: 167.3 185.8 336.5
Burglary: 747.3 521 813.2
Larceny Theft: 3504.3 4162.1 2601.7
Vehicle Theft: 349.9 236.1 501.5

Then Fargo in comparison

Latest 2006 Crimes per 100,000 People:
Fargo, ND Missoula, MT National

Murder: 2.2 0 7
Forcible Rape: 75.98 59.82 32.2
Robbery: 20.9 47.2 205.8
Aggravated Assault: 155.3 185.8 336.5
Burglary: 578.1 521 813.2
Larceny Theft: 2125.1 4162.1 2601.7
Vehicle Theft: 246.6 236.1 501.5


I didn't do a great deal of searching and there may be more recent #'s that I didn't see but y'all can sit around point if you feel like it. Good luck.xthumbsupx

Hey I can play that pick a bad year game too.
Rapes
(per 100,000)
Conway 1999- 9 (22.9) Missoula-38 (72.6)

And looking at the data from citi-data I see where Missoula, a town of 65,000 or so has 253 registered sex offenders while Conway, a town with a population of 50,000 or so has...um...19. That's a relief to know that Missoula can keep track of all those RSO's...Conway apparently can't. xlolx

[darell1976]

Hey, don't look at me! I'm a supporter of you guys! I even have a great bumper sticker advertising North Dakota!

"Montana is full... I hear North Dakota is nice."

Montana--Where men are men and the sheep are scared.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Hey, don't look at me! I'm a supporter of you guys! I even have a great bumper sticker advertising North Dakota!

"Montana is full... I hear North Dakota is nice."

Full of what I wonder?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Hey I can play that pick a bad year game too.
Rapes
(per 100,000)
Conway 1999- 9 (22.9) Missoula-38 (72.6)

And looking at the data from citi-data I see where Missoula, a town of 65,000 or so has 253 registered sex offenders while Conway, a town with a population of 50,000 or so has...um...19. That's a relief to know that Missoula can keep track of all those RSO's...Conway apparently can't. xlolx

As I said it was the latest year slick that i could see on a quick search. I didn't pick it because it was a bad year for Conway in comparison to a good year for Missoula.

It ain't a response to have a tit for tat over what crime is higher in which community and by what margin it is just to say you seem to be lofting stones without looking at the fact that this same **** happens in your own community at an alarming rate and you want to shrug that off and point it this way...good for you.xthumbsupx


Our rates are bound to higher in most years in Missoula because we usually have an SLC team sent up here.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Full of what I wonder?

I bet you do...

I bet you do.

[BEAR]

Our rates are bound to higher in most years in Missoula because we usually have an SLC team sent up here.

xlolx xlolx Nice comeback..sadly, it doesn't look like any SLC teams, or teams from other conferences will be coming back to Missoula for a while. xlolx

You can add jack frost to that list of rapists in that case. xlolx

[BEAR]

Hey, we can all say at least we're not Florida State! xlolx

[THE DANIMAL]

Oh Christ! What a dandy of a thread. xnonono2xxnonono2x:o

[laxVik]

Poetic justice... Yeah I can see that? A nation wide problem that arises on all campuses in which Montana realized and took proper steps to correct by hiring outside counsel to investigate, revamping the student code of conduct, and terminating 2 well respected individuals of the university as a result. Yeah Montana deserves that...

I cant speak for everyone in Montana but I sense the general thought is we all want answers and we want the judicial system to take its course before we start burning the accused at the stake.11 cases in recent months is normal among college campuses? Puh-leeze....

[NoCoDanny]

It's just a good thing sheep can't talk or this would be really big.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

It's just a good thing sheep can't talk or this would be really big.

They would have many stories of 40 and 50 victories over Northern Colorado just as everyone else does. You're right, it's best if they keep their sexy mouths shut.

[Grizo406]

They would have many stories of 40 and 50 victories over Northern Colorado just as everyone else does. You're right, it's best if they keep their sexy mouths shut.

xlolxxlolxxthumbsupx

[KNUTS]

11 cases in recent months is normal among college campuses? Puh-leeze....

18 months

[ThompsonThe]

They would have many stories of 40 and 50 victories over Northern Colorado just as everyone else does. You're right, it's best if they keep their sexy mouths shut.

ALL schools have problems like this from time to time. Many times the best places attract the worst bunch of criminals. Let me hear from any of you that have never had a problem on your campus or the town near it.

Don't think I will hear from many. And if I do, I am betting your not informed enough or are l_________ing.

Rape is not funny, it could be your sister, girlfriend, wife. Hell, it could be you.

Of course we know those Montanans are horn dogs though, just like me.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Bump. Just read this.

http://jezebel.com/5908472/my-weekend-in-americas-so+called-rape-capital

[bobcathpdevil56]

http://www.kpax.com/news/more-sex-assaults-reported-in-bozeman/

The feds aren't investigating Missoula because of the number of rapes, they are looking into the investigations (excuse me lack their of) by the police and the County Attorney's office. So this article has nothing to do with the issue in Missoula.

[Green26]

From the jezebel article. This is apparently the gang rape situation that the local paper has splashed all over the front page in multiple articles and with multiple quotes from the accuser (but without any specific facts like in the Jezebel article). The word on egriz and in Missoula is a player recently won his appeal in the university action in this matter, and the other cases of the other players were dropped by the university. By the way, this matter occurred in Dec 2010, and the police declined to prosecute it back then due to lack of facts/evidence. In Dec or January this year, the police said they'd look at the matter again, but no charges have been filed, and I assume none will. If these are in fact the facts, this isn't my idea of gang rape.

"We talk for a while about the alleged football team gang-rape; she knows the details because she's "on and off" with one of the players who was involved and recorded the whole thing on his phone, "because guys are like that." She tells it like this: two best girlfriends got drunk with the team and took turns going around in a circle and giving the players blowjobs. One of the girls also had sex with one of the football players that night, and when her boyfriend caught wind of the affair, she said it was non-consensual. He convinced her to file a police report, but the County Attorney's Office decided not to prosecute, citing a lack of evidence. Tori thinks that's because her friend showed them the video, which depicted the girl excited and laughing. "In other words," Tori says, "She was into it." The girl went to the college administration next, and thanks to the OCR's recently enacted "Dear Colleague" letter, which lowers the standard of proof on campus for sex charges within the rubric of Title IX, got him kicked off the team and possibly expelled."

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Bump. Just read this.

http://jezebel.com/5908472/my-weekend-in-americas-so+called-rape-capital

Read it. It's not a bad article from an outsiders perspective but there are some definite biases on some things. The mentions and distaste of guns from a Manhattan girl are understandable if looked at from her perspective and what her paradigm would be. It does not mean anything however if looked at from a perspective that we come from and it really has nothing to do with the story.

Her portrayal of college life is exactly what you would see around the country in late night bar settings.

I know the owner of Stockman's and it can get rowdy at night like all other places I've been with loud music, drinking, etc. but her perception looks way off on that front. It is a bar that many lawyers and other businessmen go up until the college crowd begins rolling in around 8-9p. It is not some dangerous place any more than a normal, busy, college bar would be. When it gets busy and people are packed in then you can exit if you are a woman that feels the contact is more than you can handle. You can not sit at the bar and think that people trying to get a beer are dnot gonna be up against ya.

That article she pulls out quotes from is the same article I posted from the Kaimin a couple of months ago. I think you read it along with a lot of others on here. Did the couple of quotes she pulled out of that article represent the piece correctly in your view? It painted a far different picture than the spirit of the original article did in my view.

[bobcathpdevil56]

Read it. It's not a bad article from an outsiders perspective but there are some definite biases on some things. The mentions and distaste of guns from a Manhattan girl are understandable if looked at from her perspective and what her paradigm would be. It does not mean anything however if looked at from a perspective that we come from and it really has nothing to do with the story.

Her portrayal of college life is exactly what you would see around the country in late night bar settings.

I know the owner of Stockman's and it can get rowdy at night like all other places I've been with loud music, drinking, etc. but her perception looks way off on that front. It is a bar that many lawyers and other businessmen go up until the college crowd begins rolling in around 8-9p. It is not some dangerous place any more than a normal, busy, college bar would be. When it gets busy and people are packed in then you can exit if you are a woman that feels the contact is more than you can handle. You can not sit at the bar and think that people trying to get a beer are dnot gonna be up against ya.

That article she pulls out quotes from is the same article I posted from the Kaimin a couple of months ago. I think you read it along with a lot of others on here. Did the couple of quotes she pulled out of that article represent the piece correctly in your view? It painted a far different picture than the spirit of the original article did in my view.

And to think she called the Mo Club divey. Is that some kind of sacrilege? I agree this is a problem in every college town. Tough situations, I believe that a lot more education in High School could go a long way to hopefully riding campuses of these problems.

[KNUTS]

I like that the sources for most of her quotes are drug addicts, drug dealers, and 20 year old drunks at the bar. They are exactly who I want speaking about the culture of this place, because they obviously know right from wrong. I guess getting the prespective from the majority of us doesnt support her thesis.

She also does a good job of making it sound like the football team is avoiding her.

1. Media hasnt exactly been fair to them
2. It's totally logical for the team to have a policy for this
3. If she was at the Mo Club or Stocks she was probably 3 feet from at least one kid that plays or played

But it reads better if it sounds like they didnt go out becasue they caught wind that she was in town.

Anyways I'm glad to have some one from Manhattan weigh in on this, because stuff like this doesnt happen there.
http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20110623/washington-heights-inwood/women-fear-sexual-assault-spree-along-manhattans-west-side

[ursus arctos horribilis]

And to think she called the Mo Club divey. Is that some kind of sacrilege? I agree this is a problem in every college town. Tough situations, I believe that a lot more education in High School could go a long way to hopefully riding campuses of these problems.
I don't fault her for that. She's not even close to the enlightened state that Montanans are to see things for what they are and recognize the beauty in a place like that. To an outsider it would appear divey and that's fine by me.:D

How could a young gal that sits in "sportsbars" of today realize what an original sports bar of the 50's or 60's looked like or felt like?

That's the part of the article where it really sank in that she didn't get it as far as culture goes.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I like that the sources for most of her quotes are drug addicts, drug dealers, and 20 year old drunks at the bar. They are exactly who I want speaking about the culture of this place, because they obviously know right from wrong. I guess getting the prespective from the majority of us doesnt support her thesis.

She also does a good job of making it sound like the football team is avoiding her.

1. Media hasnt exactly been fair to them
2. It's totally logical for the team to have a policy for this
3. If she was at the Mo Club or Stocks she was probably 3 feet from at least one kid that plays or played

But it reads better if it sounds like they didnt go out becasue they caught wind that she was in town.

Anyways I'm glad to have some one from Manhattan weigh in on this, because stuff like this doesnt happen there.
http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20110623/washington-heights-inwood/women-fear-sexual-assault-spree-along-manhattans-west-side

If she ordered at drink at either bar she was talking to someone that either played, is playing, is a brother, a room mate, etc.

Of course it's not summer so they may not be working but they are in both places all the time as you said.

[bobcathpdevil56]

I don't fault her for that. She's not even close to the enlightened state that Montanans are to see things for what they are and recognize the beauty in a place like that. To an outsider it would appear divey and that's fine by me.:D

How could a young gal that sits in "sportsbars" of today realize what an original sports bar of the 50's or 60's looked like or felt like?

That's the part of the article where it really sank in that she didn't get it as far as culture goes.


True. Even a bobcat fan realizes how cool the Mo Club is(even surrounded by one of the most prodigious collection of griz stuff). Warm beer and cold burgers;)

[ursus arctos horribilis]

True. Even a bobcat fan realizes how cool the Mo Club is(even surrounded by one of the most prodigious collection of griz stuff). Warm beer and cold burgers;)

You're kind of excellent. The slogan at the end to boot. I see lots of rep in your future.xthumbsupx

That kind of just got me thinking about how she would explain other great MT iconic places. She'd have a tough time understanding any Saloon environment like the Rockin' R (RIP) and so on.

It's so unfortunate that it was destroyed by the explosion and had to be rebuilt to what it is now because she would feel right at home in a place like that.

Can't even imagine what her reaction to the Elbow Room would have been before they moved from a double wide to the 20th century.

Kinda sad.

[Montanan]

You're kind of excellent. The slogan at the end to boot. I see lots of rep in your future.xthumbsupx

That kind of just got me thinking about how she would explain other great MT iconic places. She'd have a tough time understanding any Saloon environment like the Rockin' R (RIP) and so on.

It's so unfortunate that it was destroyed by the explosion and had to be rebuilt to what it is now because she would feel right at home in a place like that.

Can't even imagine what her reaction to the Elbow Room would have been before they moved from a double wide to the 20th century.

Kinda sad.


if you think the old Elbow Room would have sent her over the edge, she'd of had a total melt down if she'd of gone to the Park/Flamingo/Tap Room up across from the oval/train station. ahhhhhh, the good ole days!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

if you think the old Elbow Room would have sent her over the edge, she'd of had a total melt down if she'd of gone to the Park/Flamingo/Tap Room up across from the oval/train station. ahhhhhh, the good ole days!

How about Lukes? It all pales to what she would have seen at the Testyfest if she had timed it out that way.xlolx