Elon to CAA

[fc97]

someone on campus today said caa members have been in contact with elon and other southern members

[NHwildEcat]

Just verbal heresay?

[Apphole]

No! Not the whipping boy!

[fc97]

could be but that kind of talk hasnt happened in 10 years

[danefan]

The CAA is in a position of power right now.

The big question is do they go North or South or both.

[fc97]

exactly

pending logical removals of georgia southern, liberty, jacksonville state, appalachian state, uncc, georgia state, james madison, old dominion that leaves conferences in a weak position

-2 for southern
-1 ohio valley
-3 colonial
-1 big south

[clenz]

The CAA could take YSU from the MVFC and make everyone happy

[PaladinFan]

Here's my take.

Elon is just about the only one I can see moving. I don't think you'll see GSU or App move as that would make little sense to programs wanting to move to the FBS. I also do not think you'll see the likes of Davidson, Furman, the Citadel, and Wofford (and maybe Charleston) break rank. With that crowd, you probably get all four, or you get none. Elon doesn't really have a close connection with any of the other universities.

I'm not terribly worried, though, as the SoCon can have its pick of other programs to replace any defectors in much the same way it has done for 80 years.

[asumike83]

The SoCon will be fine but losing Elon and/or College of Charleston would be a serious hit for baseball.

[phoenix3]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see Elon going to the CAA. Let's face it, Elon will never move up to the FBS unless something completely unanticipated happens. There has been talk about a "Southern Ivey" for several years and as much as I would hate to see us taken out of the mix in playing schools like App and Ga Southern, they will likely be gone in the not too distant future anyway. So, a "Southern Ivey" that would include a mix including the likes of Furman, Richmond, Wofford, W&M, Davidson and Elon among others may be a successful way to go. That would allow competition in a more homogenous framework with football. Basketball would likely would be in a stronger position with a "SI". Moving to a dynamically changing CAA may be a great move for a couple of years, but who knows what the CAA will look like in 3-4 years. Personally, I see that as a very risky move right now.

Elon's baseball program would be the big loser in a Southern Ivey scenario IMO.

[PaladinFan]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see Elon going to the CAA. Let's face it, Elon will never move up to the FBS unless something completely unanticipated happens. There has been talk about a "Southern Ivey" for several years and as much as I would hate to see us taken out of the mix in playing schools like App and Ga Southern, they will likely be gone in the not too distant future anyway. So, a "Southern Ivey" that would include a mix including the likes of Furman, Richmond, Wofford, W&M, Davidson and Elon among others may be a successful way to go. That would allow competition in a more homogenous framework with football. Basketball would likely would be in a stronger position with a "SI". Moving to a dynamically changing CAA may be a great move for a couple of years, but who knows what the CAA will look like in 3-4 years. Personally, I see that as a very risky move right now.

Elon's baseball program would be the big loser in a Southern Ivey scenario IMO.

The Southern Ivey idea has been around for a long time. Not sure we'll ever see it. I think that would would be a wonderful conference though, with a footprint extending from Virginia down through the Carolinas.

I'm also I'm not sure I agree with the original idea that the CAA is dealing from a position of strength. The SoCon is a much older conference, with much deeper ties to that conference than the CAA. If you put both the SoCon and CAA on the table and said "which one will dissolve first", ten times out of ten you say the CAA.

[Dane96]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see Elon going to the CAA. Let's face it, Elon will never move up to the FBS unless something completely unanticipated happens. There has been talk about a "Southern Ivey" for several years and as much as I would hate to see us taken out of the mix in playing schools like App and Ga Southern, they will likely be gone in the not too distant future anyway. So, a "Southern Ivey" that would include a mix including the likes of Furman, Richmond, Wofford, W&M, Davidson and Elon among others may be a successful way to go. That would allow competition in a more homogenous framework with football. Basketball would likely would be in a stronger position with a "SI". Moving to a dynamically changing CAA may be a great move for a couple of years, but who knows what the CAA will look like in 3-4 years. Personally, I see that as a very risky move right now.

Elon's baseball program would be the big loser in a Southern Ivey scenario IMO.

All due respect, and I say the same when I hear this about Rutgers being a "public IVY", there is not, never will be, nor can be contemplated a "Southern Ivy." Not one school, though they are respected, on that list holds the national and international "jockstrap" of any IVY.

Being an Ivy is a "thing", some tangibly and objective...some not. It cannot be replicated. You can be good as an IVY...but never an IVY.
There really is no room for debate on this.

[apaladin]

All due respect, and I say the same when I hear this about Rutgers being a "public IVY", there is not, never will be, nor can be contemplated a "Southern Ivy." Not on school, though they are respected, on that list holds the national and international "jockstrap" of any IVY.

Being an Ivy is a "thing", some tangibly and objective...some not. It cannot be replicated. You can be good as an IVY...but never an IVY.
There really is no room for debate on this.

Good post and I agree. Heck, we can't even spell it correctly!! Ivy not Ivey!

[Skjellyfetti]

There was actually an attempt to create a "Southern Ivy" league called the "Magnolia League" that fizzled out back in the 1950's or so.

Duke
Tulane
Emory
Rice
Vanderbilt
Wake Forest
Southern Methodist

[phoenix3]

All due respect, and I say the same when I hear this about Rutgers being a "public IVY", there is not, never will be, nor can be contemplated a "Southern Ivy." Not on school, though they are respected, on that list holds the national and international "jockstrap" of any IVY.

Being an Ivy is a "thing", some tangibly and objective...some not. It cannot be replicated. You can be good as an IVY...but never an IVY.
There really is no room for debate on this.

Hence the " ".

[phoenix3]

Good post and I agree. Heck, we can't even spell it correctly!! Ivy not Ivey!

Too funny! You're right. Maybe the Cudzoo Conference...

[Sader87]

All due respect, and I say the same when I hear this about Rutgers being a "public IVY", there is not, never will be, nor can be contemplated a "Southern Ivy." Not on school, though they are respected, on that list holds the national and international "jockstrap" of any IVY.

Being an Ivy is a "thing", some tangibly and objective...some not. It cannot be replicated. You can be good as an IVY...but never an IVY.
There really is no room for debate on this.

The Patriot League would very much like to beg to differ....emphasis being on the "beg."

Southern Ivey.....literally can't make this up.

[DFW HOYA]

There was actually an attempt to create a "Southern Ivy" league called the "Magnolia League" that fizzled out back in the 1950's or so.

Duke
Tulane
Emory
Rice
Vanderbilt
Wake Forest
Southern Methodist

I think of this as urban legend, much like the "Fenwick College" to the Ivy League story.

In the 1950's, Duke and Wake Forest had just joined the ACC (Duke being the new conference's top football school for its first decade). Vandy and Tulane were content in the SEC, Rice was the top draw in the SWC and SMU wasn't bad, either.

Emory College wasn't even on the map at this time and wasn't playing football.

For the 1950's, these schools were too strong nationally to consider such a setup and otherwise had little in common.

[Brad82]

Elon is good program,but can't see going to CAA being any easier?
The best thing that happens to them is play-off expansion not conference affilation.
If ASU and GSU leave the Southern,they may have better shot at play-offs,seeding,etc..

[MplsBison]

The CAA could take YSU from the MVFC and make everyone happy

xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

Then give Eastern Illinois a spot in the MVFC and they can join the Summit bball league.

Make it happen Douple!

[MplsBison]

All due respect, and I say the same when I hear this about Rutgers being a "public IVY", there is not, never will be, nor can be contemplated a "Southern Ivy." Not one school, though they are respected, on that list holds the national and international "jockstrap" of any IVY.

Being an Ivy is a "thing", some tangibly and objective...some not. It cannot be replicated. You can be good as an IVY...but never an IVY.
There really is no room for debate on this.

I thought it just meant they had Ivy growing on the campus buildings. xrotatehx

[Bogus Megapardus]

All due respect, and I say the same when I hear this about Rutgers being a "public IVY"


Before there was an "Ivy League" in 1954, there was a group of places known a "peer institutions." Rutgers was among them, as was Georgetown, Chicago and a few others. But the Peer hit the Fan for Rutgers during the Mason Gross era in beginning in 1958 and was all downhill from there. Rutgers wasn't really even a public school until 1958.

[Tribal]

W&M and UR played in the SoCon forever. May have to go "home."

[Sader87]

Though I'd love to see them (Tribe and the Spiders) in the PL...it probably makes more sense for them in the SoCon.

Amazing how fast football in the CAA "blew up"...though it was probably inevitable given the geographical and institutional differences of its members.

[Go...gate]

All due respect, and I say the same when I hear this about Rutgers being a "public IVY", there is not, never will be, nor can be contemplated a "Southern Ivy." Not one school, though they are respected, on that list holds the national and international "jockstrap" of any IVY.

Being an Ivy is a "thing", some tangibly and objective...some not. It cannot be replicated. You can be good as an IVY...but never an IVY.
There really is no room for debate on this.

Maybe no room for debate in the present day, but some room for history. Before WWII and Rutgers morphing into a State institution, RU's primary peers were what was then known as the "Ivy Group", a group coined by the sportswriters of the day, such as Caswell Adams and others. Rutgers, largely an undergraduate institution at that time, had a very close relationship with Princeton and Columbia, as well as highly prestigious schools such as Stevens Institute of Technology and NYU. Rutgers as certainly considered a member of the so-called "Ivy Group" along with Harvard, Yale, Brown, Dartmouth, West Point and Annapolis. (Interestingly, Penn and Cornell were not considered in this "group"). Many a financier and banker that graduated from "Ivy Group" schools did post-graduate work at the Stonier Graduate School of Banking at Rutgers (where what is now known as an MBA in finance could be attained).

[Go...gate]

Before there was an "Ivy League" in 1954, there was a group of places known a "peer institutions." Rutgers was among them, as was Georgetown, Chicago and a few others. But the Peer hit the Fan for Rutgers during the Mason Gross era in beginning in 1958 and was all downhill from there. Rutgers wasn't really even a public school until 1958.

Correct. The transition began in earnest in 1947.

[MplsBison]

W&M and UR played in the SoCon forever. May have to go "home."

That will happen before the PL is even considered.

An anti-competitive policy like the AI will not be accepted without some major retooling.

[PaladinFan]

W&M and UR played in the SoCon forever. May have to go "home."

Love to have you back. I've always thought the SoCon would be a pretty compelling football conference with 12 members. If the SoCon could poach JMU, Richmond, and W&M and make two divisions of six teams, I would not hate it.

SoCon North: W&M, JMU, Richmond, App State, Elon, Western Carolina
SoCon South: Furman, Wofford, Georgia Southern, UTC, Samford, the Citadel

That's some good football right there.

[whoanellie]

isn't it Kudzou?
Too funny! You're right. Maybe the Cudzoo Conference...

[PaladinFan]

isn't it Kudzou?

Kudzu. And I think he misspelled it on purpose.

[youwouldno]

No one is leaving the SoCon for the CAA. I wouldn't be surprised if the CAA was making phone calls, but I doubt they will find takers from any conference at this point.

[MplsBison]

No one is leaving the SoCon for the CAA. I wouldn't be surprised if the CAA was making phone calls, but I doubt they will find takers from any conference at this point.

Youngstown, from the Horizon and MVFC - is reasonable.

They'd pick up a nice chunk of change by getting the CAA tournament credits.


By the way, with the impeding implosion of the WAC and CAA --- does anyone know what happens to that NCAA tournament money? Does the NCAA just keep it? Or do they distribute it to the conferences that absorbed the schools?

[tribefan40]

Love to have you back. I've always thought the SoCon would be a pretty compelling football conference with 12 members. If the SoCon could poach JMU, Richmond, and W&M and make two divisions of six teams, I would not hate it.

SoCon North: W&M, JMU, Richmond, App State, Elon, Western Carolina
SoCon South: Furman, Wofford, Georgia Southern, UTC, Samford, the Citadel

That's some good football right there.

I would love to see WM in a conference like that. Although it would more likely look like:

SoCon North: W&M, Richmond, VMI, Elon, Western Carolina
SoCon South: Furman, Wofford, UTC, Samford, Citadel

[whitey]

By the way, with the impeding implosion of the WAC and CAA --- does anyone know what happens to that NCAA tournament money? Does the NCAA just keep it? Or do they distribute it to the conferences that absorbed the schools?

First of all I don't think the CAA is going to implode. WAC almost surely but not the CAA. I read somewhere (can't find it now of course) existing tourney credits will be redistributed to all conferences should a conference fold. Given the GMU and VCU runs there is way too much money sitting there in CAA tourney credits for the conference to cease to exist. The CAA will easily find new members to fill the ranks methinks.

I'm assuming if a conference ceases to exist their NCAA basketball auto-bid turns into a new at large?

[PaladinFan]

I would love to see WM in a conference like that. Although it would more likely look like:

SoCon North: W&M, Richmond, VMI, Elon, Western Carolina
SoCon South: Furman, Wofford, UTC, Samford, Citadel

You have a lot more faith in App and GSU moving than I do :)

[youwouldno]

No one is going to join an unstable conference for a little cash. Then what happens if the conference falls apart a couple years later? It's a bad situation to be in.

edited to add: Keep in mind also that Richmond is not a member of the CAA, but of the A-10. They affiliate football and one other sport I think with the CAA. That effectively rules them out as a possible SoCon addition, unless the conference was desperate, since Richmond won't be leaving the A-10 in other sports.

[danefan]

No one is going to join an unstable conference for a little cash. Then what happens if the conference falls apart a couple years later? It's a bad situation to be in.

edited to add: Keep in mind also that Richmond is not a member of the CAA, but of the A-10. They affiliate football and one other sport I think with the CAA. That effectively rules them out as a possible SoCon addition, unless the conference was desperate, since Richmond won't be leaving the A-10 in other sports.

Richmond isn't an affiliate in the CAA Football conference. There is no such thing. All members of the CAA Football conference are full members.

But your point is taken though. The Socon isn't taking an affiliate member for football and Richmond isn't leaving the A10.

[ThompsonThe]

It would be great to have W&M, Richmond, JMU and VMI back (except for JMU) in the SoCon. W&M almost means SoCon to an old guy like me. Even if App, JMU and GaSo are gone soon would be great to have them back in just before we left. At least we would know that the SoCon would be in good hands along with the other members.

[AppMan]

I would love to see WM in a conference like that. Although it would more likely look like:

SoCon North: W&M, Richmond, VMI, Elon, Western Carolina
SoCon South: Furman, Wofford, UTC, Samford, Citadel

If that happend I suspect you might see UTC head to the OVC and WCU perhaps to the Big South.

[Smitty]

If that happend I suspect you might see UTC head to the OVC and WCU perhaps to the Big South.

I don't think WCU would be interested in going anywhere to be honest. Until we actually get a football team moving in the right direction, I would rather be at the bottom of the SoCon...

[phoenix3]

UTC may go to the OVC but I doubt it. We'll discover the moon is truly made of cheese before WCU goes to the Big South.

[TheRevSFA]

UTC is going to start their own conference in FBS. They don't need a stinking invite

[Apphole]

UTC is going to start their own conference in FBS. They don't need a stinking invite

UTC will be announcing a move to the NFC South this coming week.

[fc97]

elon, liberty, coastal and the citadel have been contacted by the caa at this point

[danefan]

elon, liberty, coastal and the citadel have been contacted by the caa at this point

I think the CAA is putting out feelers to just about any team East of the Rockies that is not reclassifying.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/new_league_possible_rELtbZJR1YSqVmU0GKHgTI?utm_med ium=rss&utm_content=Basketball

[whoanellie]

the only way Elon leaves the SoCon is if the Conference folds. Sort of wish We could get some better OOC match ups but We now have some great BCS pay days
on the Horizon. I do have some empathy for the Appsters and their all dressed up for the "Prom" and getting "snaked" by their UNC-C cousin for the prized conference invite.
Looks like:
Carrowinds trumps Tweetsie.

[PaladinFan]

the only way Elon leaves the SoCon is if the Conference folds. Sort of wish We could get some better OOC match ups but We now have some great BCS pay days
on the Horizon. I do have some empathy for the Appsters and their all dressed up for the "Prom" and getting "snaked" by their UNC-C cousin for the prized conference invite.
Looks like:
Carrowinds trumps Tweetsie.

I don't know this for a fact, but I would wager the SoCon is as old as just about any conference in the country. I don't see it going anywhere.

[asumike83]

I don't know this for a fact, but I would wager the SoCon is as old as just about any conference in the country. I don't see it going anywhere.

I see almost no circumstance where the SoCon would fold. The only real flight risks are App and GSU unless I'm out of the loop on something. Even if both bolted, there is no shortage of worthy replacements out there.

[Skjellyfetti]

I would wager the SoCon is as old as just about any conference in the country. I don't see it going anywhere.

People said the same about the Southwest Conference. Founded in 1914.



... you better start swimmin or you'll sink like a stone ...

[whoanellie]

my point is Elon is not going anywhere...
I don't know this for a fact, but I would wager the SoCon is as old as just about any conference in the country. I don't see it going anywhere.

[Saint3333]

I would say the SoCon may take a few CAA schools rather than SoCon teams leaving for the CAA, that would be if I thought the SoCon leaders were as strong as the CAA's. The SoCon should be reaching out to W&M, Delaware, Liberty, and CCU in case ASU and GSU do leave. I have no doubt the SoCon will be reactive rather than proactive.

[WUTNDITWAA]

Virginians will get to experience the SoCon game of the week on their PBS stations.

[henfan]

Virginians will get to experience the SoCon game of the week on their PBS stations.

Yeah, vs. the deal the CAA has with CBSSports. Unlikely the SoCon has much of a foot to stand on in conference realignment, though they are still better positioned than the poor America East and NEC.

[PaladinFan]

People said the same about the Southwest Conference. Founded in 1914.



... you better start swimmin or you'll sink like a stone ...

Perhaps, but that is apples and oranges.

The SoCon has adapted with the times. Some teams leave. They are replaced. If App or GSU decided to leave, I can see the SoCon being an attractive option for any number of teams in the Big South and OVC.

[PaladinFan]

Virginians will get to experience the SoCon game of the week on their PBS stations.

I really didn't mind the PBS option. Game looks pretty much the same as it did when it was on FoxSportsSouth.

My only complaint is Furman was televised playing Georgia Southern. I don't know whether it was because I am in Georgia and watching the game on GPTV, but it was almost a "public service announcement" for Georgia Southern University. I don't mind a bit of banter back and forth about the colleges, but it doesn't need to be four quarters of interviews of every person they can find on the sidelines.

[youwouldno]

The SoCon is stable by conference standards these days. All programs are all-sports members, though 3 don't play scholarship football. Losing GSU and App St certainly isn't good from a quality perspective, but just numerically it wouldn't be hard to bring in replacements.

[GA St. MBB Fan]

Isn't it true that back in 2000/2001 there was a proposed CAA-SoCon merger? But supposedly Richmond went behind the CAA-SoCon's back(s) and jumped to the A-10, which was one of the reasons the CAA-SoCon merger was never completed?

What are the chances this could happen now? Let's assume ODU, VCU, and GMU leave the CAA and GA Southern and App. State leave the SoCon. Could such merger happen? Or would the SoCon schools balk at playing conference basketball games in NY and Boston, and football games in Maine and New Hampshire?

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

The SoCon will be able handle losing App State and GaSo alot better than the CAA losing ODU, VCU, and Mason. The SoCon will make a move for W&M and Richmond football/UNCW other sports. JMU and maybe Delaware will bolt in a scenario like that. What's left of CAA blends into the America East and Big South.

[fc97]

if app and gsu leaves, utc might be back up in the air

i think the socon makes a play for towson, william and mary and richmond/uncw in that case

unless the caa fills in holes with elon, coastal and vmi

[zilla]

if app and gsu leaves, utc might be back up in the air

Then Samford would be secluded from the rest of the SoCon's footprint (no border states with league institutions). Add Jacksonville State???

I could see W&M, Richmond, & UNCW coming in. I wouldn't think Towson would be in the mix though.

Last I heard, Coastal still didn't have enough support for SoCon consideration.

[alvinkayak6]

I think what this shows is that the SOCON & CAA, despite being probably the two dominant conferences are less stable than the Big Sky & Missouri Valley Football Conference

[Sader87]

I think what this shows is that the SOCON & CAA, despite being probably the two dominant conferences are less stable than the Big Sky & Missouri Valley Football Conference


I think FCS football in general is very unstable....it's a very costly endeavor for many of these schools. It wouldn't shock me to see more and more schools drop football within this decade. (Not that I'm advocating for such...)

[MplsBison]

I think FCS football in general is very unstable....it's a very costly endeavor for many of these schools. It wouldn't shock me to see more and more schools drop football within this decade. (Not that I'm advocating for such...)

And if you can't afford to do it right, then you shouldn't do it!

[Saint3333]

A lack of scholarships minimums has always been my least favorite part about the FCS.

[MplsBison]

A lack of scholarships minimums has always been my least favorite part about the FCS.

And one of my favorite things about FBS. Gotta give at least 90% of the maximum.

[Engineer86]

I would love to see WM in a conference like that. Although it would more likely look like:

SoCon North: W&M, Richmond, VMI, Elon, Western Carolina
SoCon South: Furman, Wofford, UTC, Samford, Citadel

If this is the result, I have to question it the patriot league is not a more attractive alternative for W&M, Richmond, & VMI. I just do not see this as an attractive grouping, but I will concede to the SoCon history.

[fc97]

that is a pretty arrogant way to look at it lehigh man since your coaches come down to the socon

i dont see how you can even make the claim that william and mary would be more attracted to the patriot than southern. you have socon history, all three were in the socon, vmi's concern is gone with app and gsu gone, you have two long time military rivals back together and you have shorter travel for all three and none of the scholarship funding drama the patriot has

I would think coastal and towson might be interested and there might be interest the other way too. i dont think it would be a bad deal for either party

samford might be secluded, but they are still in the conference that they wanted to be in despite a loss of utc. they would be fine. furman and wofford are easier to get to for them than gsu is

[Tribe4SF]

If this is the result, I have to question it the patriot league is not a more attractive alternative for W&M, Richmond, & VMI. I just do not see this as an attractive grouping, but I will concede to the SoCon history.

SoCon as described is more attractive. W&M would be a complete outlier in the Patriot...has no meaningful athletic history with Patriot schools...is a state school...desires to stay at 63 scholarships (60? Really?)...has no need of the academic index.

What I want to see happen is rapid addition of new CAA schools. Bring in Stony Brook, Coastal Carolina, Maine, UNH, Elon and Albany as all-sport members. Go back to two divisions for football with Coastal, UR, W&M, JMU, Towson and Elon in the south, and Nova, UD, SB, Albany, Maine and UNH in the north.

[MplsBison]

SoCon as described is more attractive. W&M would be a complete outlier in the Patriot...has no meaningful athletic history with Patriot schools...is a state school...desires to stay at 63 scholarships (60? Really?)...has no need of the academic index.

What I want to see happen is rapid addition of new CAA schools. Bring in Stony Brook, Coastal Carolina, Maine, UNH, Elon and Albany as all-sport members. Go back to two divisions for football with Coastal, UR, W&M, JMU, Towson and Elon in the south, and Nova, UD, SB, Albany, Maine and UNH in the north.

Most importantly, W&M doesn't need the Patriot League academic brand. It already attracts the quality of student athletes that it wants and that fit in just fine with the student body.

[PaladinFan]

if app and gsu leaves, utc might be back up in the air

i think the socon makes a play for towson, william and mary and richmond/uncw in that case

unless the caa fills in holes with elon, coastal and vmi

I don't think UTC would leave. If the other two leave, the SoCon would undoubtedly look to the OVC, many of whom profile similarly to UTC.

Frankly, I don't think it would be that big of an issue. The majority of the Big South would jump at the opportunity, and I anticipate much of the OVC would too (particularly considering the SoCon has already cherry picked from that conference). Granted, I think the SoCon would have to lessen their standards on who comes in.

[danefan]

SoCon as described is more attractive. W&M would be a complete outlier in the Patriot...has no meaningful athletic history with Patriot schools...is a state school...desires to stay at 63 scholarships (60? Really?)...has no need of the academic index.

What I want to see happen is rapid addition of new CAA schools. Bring in Stony Brook, Coastal Carolina, Maine, UNH, Elon and Albany as all-sport members. Go back to two divisions for football with Coastal, UR, W&M, JMU, Towson and Elon in the south, and Nova, UD, SB, Albany, Maine and UNH in the north.

I would love to see that league form. Makes a whole lot of sense so it probably won't happen.

[Engineer86]

that is a pretty arrogant way to look at it lehigh man since your coaches come down to the socon


Limbo was run out because he could not beat Lafayette. There were no concerns with him leaving. Higgins came down after a stint in the NFL, he did not leave Lehigh for the Citadel.

As for the SoCon, I agree I understate the importance of the history of the league which I respect. My view came from looking at the teams involved and the thought that UTC would look to the OVC. W&M and Richmond add a lot to any league. I would personally like to see them add to the Patriot League. I think their fit is in commonality of the schools, but again I must admit the others on the list of SoCon have the similar characteristics.

AI please I am trying to forget it. None of these schools need it.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Does the Patriot League even have interest in adding football-only schools? I have a hard time understanding why they would want that.

[henfan]

What I want to see happen is rapid addition of new CAA schools. Bring in Stony Brook, Coastal Carolina, Maine, UNH, Elon and Albany as all-sport members. Go back to two divisions for football with Coastal, UR, W&M, JMU, Towson and Elon in the south, and Nova, UD, SB, Albany, Maine and UNH in the north.

In all honesty, while those are all very fine schools with nice athletic programs, this is not a league that is likely to draw a whole lot of excitement or interest from UD, though one or two of those schools as partners could satisfy the CAA's short term needs. With ODU, GMU and VCU potentially leaving the CAA, I'm not sure what the CAA will be able to do to keep schools like UD and JMU from looking elsewhere over the longer term.

UD faces a big problem with declining attendance and a seeming lack of interest in FCS FB, especially among students (a/k/a future alumni). The school badly botched its athletics fund-raising campaign and, in the process, chased away thousands of long-term FB program supporters. They are now left with the prospect of having to re-energize the fan base by trying to attract a younger demographic, many of whom don't value or respect second tier D-I FB.

The school has a lot of interesting decisions to make ahead.

[MplsBison]

In all honesty, while those are all very fine schools with nice athletic programs, this is not a league that is likely to draw a whole lot of excitement or interest from UD, though one or two of those schools as partners could satisfy the CAA's short term needs. With ODU, GMU and VCU potentially leaving the CAA, I'm not sure what the CAA will be able to do to keep schools like UD and JMU from looking elsewhere over the longer term.

UD faces a big problem with declining attendance and a seeming lack of interest in FCS FB, especially among students (a/k/a future alumni). The school badly botched its athletics fund-raising campaign and, in the process, chased away thousands of long-term FB program supporters. They are now left with the prospect of having to re-energize the fan base by trying to attract a younger demographic, many of whom don't value or respect second tier D-I FB.

The school has a lot of interesting decisions to make ahead.

A proposal just for fun:

The MAC conference proposed to add Illinois State, Youngstown St and Delaware as football only members. ISU would join the west division while YSU and UD would be in the East. Bowling Green and Miami would move to the West to balance the divisions at 8 each.

UD and Youngstown also could consider all-sports membership.


Does UD: reject the offer, accept for football only or accept all-sports?

[tribefan40]

In all honesty, while those are all very fine schools with nice athletic programs, this is not a league that is likely to draw a whole lot of excitement or interest from UD, though one or two of those schools as partners could satisfy the CAA's short term needs. With ODU, GMU and VCU potentially leaving the CAA, I'm not sure what the CAA will be able to do to keep schools like UD and JMU from looking elsewhere over the longer term.

UD faces a big problem with declining attendance and a seeming lack of interest in FCS FB, especially among students (a/k/a future alumni). The school badly botched its athletics fund-raising campaign and, in the process, chased away thousands of long-term FB program supporters. They are now left with the prospect of having to re-energize the fan base by trying to attract a younger demographic, many of whom don't value or respect second tier D-I FB.

The school has a lot of interesting decisions to make ahead.

Honest question for the UD faithful - I know UD is always mentioned in talks of teams moving to FBS, but are there any actual plans/aspirations for a move in the near future?

[danefan]

Honest question for the UD faithful - I know UD is always mentioned in talks of teams moving to FBS, but are there any actual plans/aspirations for a move in the near future?

I have to imagine they've been someone's target (MAC or CUSA). If UD is waiting for something, what cold they be waiting for?

[henfan]

Honest question for the UD faithful - I know UD is always mentioned in talks of teams moving to FBS, but are there any actual plans/aspirations for a move in the near future?

No plans have been set forth that would include FBS FB, at least not publicly. In fact, AD Muir denied a report that UD had been in discussions with CUSA. The administration has officially commented that they will continue to monitor the landscape and be prepared to respond as needed.

And then there was this stadium enhancement plan two years:
http://www.udreview.com/web-updates/harker-unveils-plans-for-renovated-stadium-new-east-campus-housing-1.1489699?pagereq=1#.T6qA78U2dmM
UD has been undergoing a silent fundraising campaign to get the stadium project off the ground but evidently has not yet reached that benchmark. Whether this is a sign of anything is anyone's guess. In any case, I honestly don't think that some of the schools mentioned in this thread as potential conference partners will help UD attract additional interest from donors, nor will they help fill the additional 8K+ seats that UD would like to add.

[danefan]

No plans have been set forth that would include FBS FB, at least not publicly. In fact, AD Muir denied a report that UD had been in discussions with CUSA. The administration has officially commented that they will continue to monitor the landscape and be prepared to respond as needed.

And then there was this stadium enhancement plan two years:
http://www.udreview.com/web-updates/harker-unveils-plans-for-renovated-stadium-new-east-campus-housing-1.1489699?pagereq=1#.T6qA78U2dmM
UD has been undergoing a silent fundraising campaign to get the stadium project off the ground but evidently has not yet reached that benchmark. Whether this is a sign of anything is anyone's guess. In any case, I honestly don't think that some of the schools mentioned in this thread as potential conference partners will help UD attract additional interest from donors, nor will they help fill the additional 8K+ seats that UD would like to add.

Hard to argue that any new iteration of the CAA isn't a downgrade for UD football, but all of the "potential conference partners" that would help UD fill those 8k seats are likely going to be gone to FBS conferences. Doesn't that force UD's hand either way?

[henfan]

I have to imagine they've been someone's target (MAC or CUSA). If UD is waiting for something, what cold they be waiting for?

The same question was being asked in the late '70's, when UD doggedly held on to D-II status, even after several former rivals had reclassified as D-I (or I-AA, if we're talking about FB). You have to understand that the school has a tradition of being extremely conservative with its athletic department and typically only makes big decisions when its hand is forced.


Hard to argue that any new iteration of the CAA is a downgrade for UD football, but all of the "potential conference partners" that would help UD fill those 8k seats are likely going to be gone to FBS conferences. Doesn't that force UD's hand either way?

You get my point.

[Go...gate]

Does the Patriot League even have interest in adding football-only schools? I have a hard time understanding why they would want that.

We would prefer all-sports members but I think Football-only members have a unique opportunity due to the divergent aid philosophy of the so-called "Scholarship Six" (I think Carney or Bogus coined the term) and Georgetown, which has elected to stay with its present aid set-up. I could see two or three Football-only members being potentially welcomed.

[Go...gate]

Any thought that Delaware would join the Patriot League?

[citdog]

Any thought that Delaware would join the Patriot League?


will the South rise again?



these questions will all be answered on the next episode of..........




http://www.ronsthings.com/soap2.jpg

[henfan]

Any thought that Delaware would join the Patriot League?

I've not heard that discussed by the UD administration since 1982 when the Colonial Conference was forming.

While it contains several former FB rivals and any school would be proud to affiliate with the PL from the academic standpoint, I have a hard time believing that the arrangement would be of interest to either side. If increasing AD fundraising and FB attendance are UD's goals, I'm not sure what the PL could offer in either regard. UD also isn't likely to adopt the AI or reduce FB equivalancies to PL levels without compelling competitive and financial reasons for doing so.

[bobcathpdevil56]

Crazy times. I am not that well versed in the history of FCS/I-AA football. Have situations like this been going on since the formation of this division? Or is this just a development of the last decade?

Soo much uncertainty.

[danefan]

Crazy times. I am not that well versed in the history of FCS/I-AA football. Have situations like this been going on since the formation of this division? Or is this just a development of the last decade?

Soo much uncertainty.

I would imagine when I-AA was formed in 1979, there was a lot of movement. Teams splitting from IA (Ivy, MEAC, SWAC, PL, etc..) and those moving up from DII.