Patriot League Football Stadiums in 2016 or so...

[bostonspider]

With all this talk of schools heading to FBS (JMU, UD, ODU, ASU, GStU, GSoU) I thought that the chatter of the smaller, mostly private, schools banding together to form a comfortable FCS football conference really starts to make sense. So I think a merger of some of the PL, CAA and SoCon schools really looks attractive in a 60 scholarship highly academic conference.

North
Colgate
Holy Cross
Fordham
Bucknell
Lafayette
Lehigh

South
Richmond
William & Mary
Elon
Wofford
Furman
Samford

All private, except for W&M (which is more exclusive than most privates) great academics, and somewhat similar school makeups and sizes. You play your division members every year and the half the opposite every other year (switching). Here is a nice graphic showing the respective stadiums. All look like nice FCS fields.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7187/7091603707_8c12117ccb_b.jpg

[dbackjon]

Interesting collection of NQIL there

[TheValleyRaider]

First, I want everyone to notice that it was a non-PL poster who started this one xrulesx

Second, let's not drop Georgetown that quickly

[bojeta]

Must be something going on at Furman in that pic because their field looks a lot like our local rodeo arena.... Actually, our rodeo arena looks nicer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/bojeta/College%20Sports/SM-rodeo-arena.jpg

[DFW HOYA]

How soon they forget:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5aDKqsf1RVE/SpSMgdAzrwI/AAAAAAAAAFQ/yTpXuof1UQU/s400/msf5.jpg

[Seawolf97]

Possibly a missle site for the North Koreans ?

[HailSzczur]

Some of those are really nice. I've only been to 5 of the above mentioned stadiums, but haven't actually seen a game at any of them. Gotta get out more I guess

[RichH2]

Common sense surely supports a lineup like this. Ipso facto, will not happen unfortunately. We still have more dominoes to topple. Lets see where we are after next seaqson

[kdinva]

With all this talk of schools heading to FBS (JMU, UD, ODU, ASU, GStU, GSoU) I thought that the chatter of the smaller, mostly private, schools banding together to form a comfortable FCS football conference really starts to make sense. So I think a merger of some of the PL, CAA and SoCon schools really looks attractive in a 60 scholarship highly academic conference.

North
Colgate
Holy Cross
Fordham
Bucknell
Lafayette
Lehigh

South
Richmond
William & Mary
Elon
Wofford
Furman
Samford

All private, except for W&M (which is more exclusive than most privates) great academics, and somewhat similar school makeups and sizes. You play your division members every year and the half the opposite every other year (switching). Here is a nice graphic showing the respective stadiums. All look like nice FCS fields.


For the sake of geography/logistics, I'd be surprised if a Samford would go this route, probably 3 plane trips a season just for Conf. games.. VMI would fit nicely into this footprint.

[TheRevSFA]

Whose is the football baseball combo? Top row on the right

Nevermind..saw that it's Fordham....not a fan.

[bostonspider]

For the sake of geography/logistics, I'd be surprised if a Samford would go this route, probably 3 plane trips a season just for Conf. games.. VMI would fit nicely into this footprint.

That is true, gladly drop Samford for VMI. Make for a ncie southern collection of Virginia and the Carolinas. The only reason I did not include Georgetown was because I was hoping for a group of teams that would all be at or around the 60 scholarship level... I just do not see Georgetown wanting that.

http://www.myfourthirds.com/files/3519/VMI3.jpg

[Wildcat80]

Been to most of them and I really like LAFAYETTE's!!!!

[HailSzczur]

Been to most of them and I really like LAFAYETTE's!!!!

Love it too, just very lopsided, ala JMU. But its great the way its set into the hill.

[Go...gate]

That is true, gladly drop Samford for VMI. Make for a ncie southern collection of Virginia and the Carolinas. The only reason I did not include Georgetown was because I was hoping for a group of teams that would all be at or around the 60 scholarship level... I just do not see Georgetown wanting that.

http://www.myfourthirds.com/files/3519/VMI3.jpg

Nice view of VMI's stadium.

[kdinva]

another view:

http://cdn7.wn.com/pd/60/58/2c25d1b10791c6398522bd39a916_grande.jpg


Nice view of VMI's stadium.

http://www.myfourthirds.com/files/3519/VMI3.jpg

[Bogus Megapardus]

Love it too, just very lopsided, ala JMU. But its great the way its set into the hill.

Once you walk into the place you see immediately why it's laid out the way it is. Fisher Field is just a natural extension of Lafayette's campus, almost like an academic building. Unlike many places with grand, towering edifices, the approach is complete unforbidding and natural in scale, yet it holds 13,500. This is becasue the natural ground level (and entrance) is at the top of the stadium, and it sits in a natural, not an artificial, "bowl."




http://www.lafayette.edu/about/wp-content/blogs.dir/2/files/summer-shots-2011/fisher-field_1.jpg

[fc97]

easily toss in citadel and vmi into this, would even it out and make samford not so isolated,

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Fisher Field is just a natural extension of Lafayette's campus, almost like an academic building. Unlike many places with grand, towering edifices, the approach is completely unforbidding...

That has a lot to do with the team that calls this place home.

[Fordham]

Whose is the football baseball combo? Top row on the right

Nevermind..saw that it's Fordham....not a fan.

agreed

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

agreed

JCF really isn't that bad as presently constructed.

If Fordham would simply add a removable 2 or 3k seat "away" side bleacher it would be a great little stadium.

[Lehigh74]

What are the chances that Boston University would resurrect their football program? I they ever did, they would be a good fit for the Patriot League.

[Go...gate]

What are the chances that Boston University would resurrect their football program? I they ever did, they would be a good fit for the Patriot League.

Agree with Lehigh74. Are there any new developments up at BU that might give some hope for football?

[BucBisonAtLarge]

I think they just announced the formation of varsity men's and women's lacrosse and construction of a new lacrosse venue.

Entry into the Patriot League, with or without football, would enshrine the standing of hockey as king on campus. It does not seem to work that way at Army, Holy Cross or Colgate, but Beanpot hockey has its own mass.

[Engineer86]

Football at BU seems like ancient history with little hope of returning. That said, they do see like a good fit to current Patriot League. Personally, I would prefer we wait and see what the next few years bring

[Sader87]

BU is not bringing back FCS football....too bad, a good rival for HC over the years.

The school/team that should be on the PL's radar imo (for football) is Villanova.

[HailSzczur]

BU is not bringing back FCS football....too bad, a good rival for HC over the years.

The school/team that should be on the PL's radar imo (for football) is Villanova.

If the CAA gets shaken up like many threads anticipate, I would bet any money we come knocking. I love where we are now, but we fit well and have some great tradition of playing PL teams.

[MplsBison]

No CAA, SoCon or Big South full scholarship team is going to accept the automatic reduction in competitiveness that the AQ requires.

Drop the AQ - then you're cookin'. No school's academic brand, nor the academic brand of the PL itself, would suffer a single iota.


I got what I wanted on the scholarship front. God willing, I'll have my way again on the AQ front.

[MplsBison]

Can anyone really fathom the conversation below taking place?

"Dad, I got into Lafayette! Can you believe it!! My dream school accepted me!!"

"Son....I'm really sorry to have to tell you this....it breaks my heart to do so. But...I can't let you attend that school. I've just received word that the Patriot League is no longer going to enforce an academic index for football recruits. The conference is simply going to allow the individual schools' admissions departments to determine if football recruits are qualified academically to attend the school."

"That basically means the school is now completely worthless as an academic institution. It will be abruptly transformed into a diploma mill for poor, urban minorities who excel at athletics. The degree wouldn't be worth the paper it was printed on. I'm truly sorry..."


Totally absurd.

[Engineer86]

Well I thank you personally for the scholarships

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Can anyone really fathom the conversation below taking place?

"Dad, I got into Lafayette! Can you believe it!! My dream school accepted me!!"

"Son....I'm really sorry to have to tell you this....it breaks my heart to do so. But...I can't let you attend that school. I've just received word that the Patriot League is no longer going to enforce an academic index for football recruits. The conference is simply going to allow the individual schools' admissions departments to determine if football recruits are qualified academically to attend the school."

"That basically means the school is now completely worthless as an academic institution. It will be abruptly transformed into a diploma mill for poor, urban minorities who excel at athletics. The degree wouldn't be worth the paper it was printed on. I'm truly sorry..."


Totally absurd.

You really have such insight in the calculus of parental concerns in making decisions for their college-bound progeny. Like you have bred....

[DFW HOYA]

Getting back to Boston University, there are three issues at play.

1. A school adding football does so for one of three reasons:

1) There is revenue potential in it (Old Dominion)
2) There is a boost to male enrollment and/or admissions (Bryant)
3) The school seeks greater visibility (Campbell, Houston Baptist)

Let's examine each from the BU perspective:

1) There is no revenue gain from Eastern I-AA football. None. BU lost millions in the A-10 and that memory is still resonant on Commonwealth Avenue. The PL doesn't bring in an extra dollar and the costs for the Scholarship Six are now roughly what it would be to play CAA ball. A school like ODU is attracting kids because of football. How many more students will come to BU because it is playing Holy Cross in September?

2) BU admissions is strong, with athletes making up less than 3% of the student body. Male enrollment continues to decline but they can still fill the classes anyway.

3) Although BU doesn't ahve the visibility of Harvard or BC, there is a trio of Northeastern city schools (BU, George Washington, NYU) that serve as a second choice to a segment of kids who want a big city education (read=lots of nightlife) and don't particularly care about any "campus" atmosphere. BU is well known within this segment without athletics, so what's the extra "push" that athletics provides?

A fourth factor shouldn't be discounted, either. Schools need "tent-pole" programs, a team they can build an atheltic program around. At most schools, it's football. At other schools, it's basketball. At BU, it's ice hockey, and they can rationalize that they don't need another visibility sport when hockey serves that role. To some degree, this also inhibits football at places like Providence, Quinnipiac, Vermont, and other NE schools which invest in hockey.

[MplsBison]

DFW, doesn't your entire analysis (except maybe the fourth point) apply equally well to the Ivy schools and Gtown?

So why do these schools maintain a varsity football program?


They certainly aren't gaining any additional visibility from their football teams that can't win anything of significance. No money in it. Not for male enrollment.


On the other hand, I can see some prospective high school seniors saying something to the effect of "BU? They don't even have a football team..."

[DFW HOYA]

DFW, doesn't your entire analysis (except maybe the fourth point) apply equally well to the Ivy schools and Gtown?
So why do these schools maintain a varsity football program?


Each of these schools has a fairly long history in the sport (Princeton: 1869; Columbia: 1870; Yale: 1872; Harvard: 1873; Pennsylvania: 1876; Brown: 1878; Dartmouth: 1881; Cornell: 1887) and schools are careful not to cut long held sports (unless your school president was the imperial John Silber). The Ivy League was founded on football and the Ancient Eight are in this together. These schools also generate male enrollment and some visibility from football, even though it's not what it was.

As for Georgetown (football since 1881), the loss of football from 1951-63 set back the school athletically for a quarter century. The current level of the sport maintains a history, attracts good students and loyal alumni, and is at a funding level which can be justified inasmuch as Georgetown does not have a facility to generate any meaningful revenue from the sport. You could charge $200 per ticket to Georgetown home games all year and still not recover the cost of a 60 scholarship program as being embraced by other PL schools. Places like Fitton Field (23,500) and Goodman Stadium (17,000, expandable to 25,000) can earn ticket revenue if there is a fan base, Georgetown's construction zone cannot. And needless to say, Georgetown cannot pay the rent at FedEx Field to play a Lafayette or a Bucknell.

[Go...gate]

If the CAA gets shaken up like many threads anticipate, I would bet any money we come knocking. I love where we are now, but we fit well and have some great tradition of playing PL teams.

I have to admit that I never thought this had a snowball's chance in Hell of happening, but....

[Go...gate]

Getting back to Boston University, there are three issues at play.

1. A school adding football does so for one of three reasons:

1) There is revenue potential in it (Old Dominion)
2) There is a boost to male enrollment and/or admissions (Bryant)
3) The school seeks greater visibility (Campbell, Houston Baptist)

Let's examine each from the BU perspective:

1) There is no revenue gain from Eastern I-AA football. None. BU lost millions in the A-10 and that memory is still resonant on Commonwealth Avenue. The PL doesn't bring in an extra dollar and the costs for the Scholarship Six are now roughly what it would be to play CAA ball. A school like ODU is attracting kids because of football. How many more students will come to BU because it is playing Holy Cross in September?

2) BU admissions is strong, with athletes making up less than 3% of the student body. Male enrollment continues to decline but they can still fill the classes anyway.

3) Although BU doesn't ahve the visibility of Harvard or BC, there is a trio of Northeastern city schools (BU, George Washington, NYU) that serve as a second choice to a segment of kids who want a big city education (read=lots of nightlife) and don't particularly care about any "campus" atmosphere. BU is well known within this segment without athletics, so what's the extra "push" that athletics provides?

A fourth factor shouldn't be discounted, either. Schools need "tent-pole" programs, a team they can build an atheltic program around. At most schools, it's football. At other schools, it's basketball. At BU, it's ice hockey, and they can rationalize that they don't need another visibility sport when hockey serves that role. To some degree, this also inhibits football at places like Providence, Quinnipiac, Vermont, and other NE schools which invest in hockey.


And, instead of bitching about the rest of us, GU should find/fund a way to make it the "Scholarship Seven".

[van]

If the CAA gets shaken up like many threads anticipate, I would bet any money we come knocking. I love where we are now, but we fit well and have some great tradition of playing PL teams.

Now that would make my day, er or year.

[DFW HOYA]

And, instead of bitching about the rest of us, GU should find/fund a way to make it the "Scholarship Seven".

I am not criticizing or opposing Colgate's decision. It's strictly a term of comparison.

[superman7515]

If the CAA does fall apart, you might want to add this stadium too...

http://www.stadiumconnection.com/simages/1195.jpg

[MplsBison]

Each of these schools has a fairly long history in the sport (Princeton: 1869; Columbia: 1870; Yale: 1872; Harvard: 1873; Pennsylvania: 1876; Brown: 1878; Dartmouth: 1881; Cornell: 1887) and schools are careful not to cut long held sports (unless your school president was the imperial John Silber). The Ivy League was founded on football and the Ancient Eight are in this together. These schools also generate male enrollment and some visibility from football, even though it's not what it was.

As for Georgetown (football since 1881), the loss of football from 1951-63 set back the school athletically for a quarter century. The current level of the sport maintains a history, attracts good students and loyal alumni, and is at a funding level which can be justified inasmuch as Georgetown does not have a facility to generate any meaningful revenue from the sport. You could charge $200 per ticket to Georgetown home games all year and still not recover the cost of a 60 scholarship program as being embraced by other PL schools. Places like Fitton Field (23,500) and Goodman Stadium (17,000, expandable to 25,000) can earn ticket revenue if there is a fan base, Georgetown's construction zone cannot. And needless to say, Georgetown cannot pay the rent at FedEx Field to play a Lafayette or a Bucknell.

Fine, just consider Georgetown vs. BU.

How can you have it both ways?? Your analysis for why BU doesn't meet any criteria for restarting football applies exactly the same to Georgetown. The only difference is you have a football team.



So, given your analysis, why shouldn't Georgetown drop football for the same reasons BU shouldn't restart football?

-OR-

Why shouldn't BU restart football for the same reasons Georgetown still maintains a varsity football team?

[MplsBison]

If the CAA does fall apart, you might want to add this stadium too...

http://www.stadiumconnection.com/simages/1195.jpg

Delaware admin, alumni, and coaches will NOT accept a reduction in competitiveness to accommodate the AQ.

It would be following UMass before accepting the AQ. And rightfully so.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I have to admit that I never thought this had a snowball's chance in Hell of happening, but....

If the CAA falls apart, I'd make them come begging. I mean grovelling, obsequious, genuflecting, down on one knee, kiss-the-ring sort of stuff. Villanova? Maybe. But it's another Pennsylvania school and it's too far from Holy Cross and Colgate. I'd say OK only if they moved their entire campus to, say, Albany or Pittsfield, Mass.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Bucknell plays Delaware this year, and played them regularly in the past, as did both Lafayette and Lehigh. Bucknell has played Delaware more often than Delaware has played most of the CAA schools, though not in recent years. They have not played in the same league for decades, and it is a stretch. The AI discussions would be had, but the dissolution of CAA football would create several unprecedented discussions.

[MplsBison]

Whoops, I meant AI. Not AQ, obviously. No one is suggestion the PL should drop it's AQ.

I meant to say is that an expectation of any CAA school joining the PL would be for the AI either to be dropped outright for the league or at least that it not be applied to their team. That won't be negotiable.


I'm fighting the good fight to have it dropped outright, for the league. Even my grandma knows that the academic brand of the PL was fabricated from the very cloth of the existing academic reputations of the member schools - nothing more. The AI added nothing, adds nothing and will subtract nothing from any brand when it's gone. Good riddance.

[Go...gate]

Dickinson College would be a great addition to the PL. Just announced $46 mil in capital improvements.


http://cumberlink.com/news/local/education/college/article_91063c9c-8cde-11e1-ab74-0019bb2963f4.html

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If the CAA falls apart, I'd make them come begging. I mean grovelling, obsequious, genuflecting, down on one knee, kiss-the-ring sort of stuff. Villanova? Maybe. But it's another Pennsylvania school and it's too far from Holy Cross and Colgate. I'd say OK only if they moved their entire campus to, say, Albany or Pittsfield, Mass.

What would the purpose of making them beg beyond massaging someone's institutional ego? If there's ever been a post that can sum up the "cut off one's nose to spite one's face" attitude of Patriot League admins and fans over the past quarter century, this one is it.

You'd really force Delaware, of all schools to one knee? Really? A high-academic school with a fan base that any FCS school would die for? You evidently don't like to see Fisher Field filled with fans, then, that's the only explanation.

[Go...gate]

If the CAA falls apart, I'd make them come begging. I mean grovelling, obsequious, genuflecting, down on one knee, kiss-the-ring sort of stuff. Villanova? Maybe. But it's another Pennsylvania school and it's too far from Holy Cross and Colgate. I'd say OK only if they moved their entire campus to, say, Albany or Pittsfield, Mass.

Referring to Villanova, they don't have to do all that. Just show Talley the door or tell him to drink a big cup of "shut the hell up"!

[colorless raider]

Forget Dickinson. They gave us Ed Sweeney.

[MplsBison]

What would the purpose of making them beg beyond massaging someone's institutional ego? If there's ever been a post that can sum up the "cut off one's nose to spite one's face" attitude of Patriot League admins and fans over the past quarter century, this one is it.

You'd really force Delaware, of all schools to one knee? Really? A high-academic school with a fan base that any FCS school would die for? You evidently don't like to see Fisher Field filled with fans, then, that's the only explanation.

High academic?? We all know that the percentage of applicants accepted and the average test scores of the incoming class are the only true ways to measure the legitimacy of an academic brand.

Come on now...

[MplsBison]

You really have such insight in the calculus of parental concerns in making decisions for their college-bound progeny. Like you have bred....

Of course. Only those who are parents of their own, biological children could possibly have a genuine interest their children's future.

I hadn't realized that Patriot League elitism extended into the realm of excluding adopted/orphaned students. How sickening.

[superman7515]

Delaware admin, alumni, and coaches will NOT accept a reduction in competitiveness to accommodate the AQ.

It would be following UMass before accepting the AQ. And rightfully so.

Delaware has always been reactive instead of proactive and moves at the speed of smell. As for the admin, you do realize that the AD came from Georgetown.

[MplsBison]

Delaware has always been reactive instead of proactive and moves at the speed of smell. As for the admin, you do realize that the AD came from Georgetown.

AD's aren't admin. I'm talking the president of the university and any such board of regents for the U of D. The people who actually say yes or no.

[DFW HOYA]

Delaware has always been reactive instead of proactive and moves at the speed of smell. As for the admin, you do realize that the AD came from Georgetown.

And that same AD came from Notre Dame, too. Not much of an analogy.

[superman7515]

AD's aren't admin. I'm talking the president of the university and any such board of regents for the U of D. The people who actually say yes or no.

The President is Patrick Harker. Went to Penn, you've already stated the Ivy feeling towards football. Started as faculty at Cal Santa Barbara who dropped football. Went to Wharton School of Business, so again back to Penn and the Ivy connection. The Pres isn't any more interested in football than the AD is.

[MplsBison]

The President is Patrick Harker. Went to Penn, you've already stated the Ivy feeling towards football. Started as faculty at Cal Santa Barbara who dropped football. Went to Wharton School of Business, so again back to Penn and the Ivy connection. The Pres isn't any more interested in football than the AD is.

Interesting info.

I still think there would be too many alumni that care about football to just lay down and accept the AI competitiveness reduction. There would be a fight somehow, either between the coaches & alumni vs the admin of U of D or between the U of D and the PL.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Dickinson College would be a great addition to the PL. Just announced $46 mil in capital improvements.

Another PA school? Gettysburg had its chance. Let Dickinson be another Laf/Leh/Col/Buck safety school. That's where it belongs.


As for the admin, you do realize that the AD came from Georgetown.

Lafayette's AD came from William & Mary and its President came from Johns Hopkins. It's all incestuous here in the east.

[DFW HOYA]

In reality (and returning to the origin of this thread), the Patriot League in 2016 will look much as it does in 2012. Those that would consider joining will be deemed not small enough, not old enough, not academic enough, or too far removed from Pennsylvania. Those that the PL would gladly welcome remain uninterested.

[URMite]

No CAA, SoCon or Big South full scholarship team is going to accept the automatic reduction in competitiveness that the AQ requires.

Drop the AQ - then you're cookin'. No school's academic brand, nor the academic brand of the PL itself, would suffer a single iota.


I got what I wanted on the scholarship front. God willing, I'll have my way again on the AQ front.

Personally, I'd prefer if the NCAA mandated the AI to all schools in all division I sports. Of course my personal version of the AI would also be tied to the pool of applicants that had been admitted historically at each school. That would increase the odds of athletes being students instead of paid entertainers...Sadly, I don't see the NCAA standing up to the BCS schools in this manner. Which is part of the reason I was against UR joining the Patriot League in the past, the AI was a self imposed restriction on only a few schools.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Of course. Only those who are parents of their own, biological children could possibly have a genuine interest their children's future.

I hadn't realized that Patriot League elitism extended into the realm of excluding adopted/orphaned students. How sickening.

Sorry about your health. I have no kids, either. I did have discussion about college with my father, the Hartford-based bricklayer, which, when discussing UConn, went "No son of mine is gonna go to that cow college." That was where most of the top 10% of my high school class went, so, while reasonable, I was expected to look elsewhere. Such it could be in New England regarding ANY public university in the 70's. Even for first-generation college-goers, like myself, schools like Wesleyan, Trinity, Amherst and the Ivies were where smart kids went.

Your guess at the AI mechanics and their role in admissions imagines something so much more intrusive than these schools can tolerate. Even the concept of the AI is by far better than having, on a small campus, an isolated underperforming group of men, which was somewhat the football team I remember at Bucknell. I believe that it is that isolation which has undermined the football program now among my alumni peers, a critical audience for any BU program.

I had been, in my previous post, reflecting on the likelihood of you maintaining a nurturing interpersonal relationship long enough to fertilize an egg. You have helped to close the gap in my knowledge, thanks.

[MplsBison]

Personally, I'd prefer if the NCAA mandated the AI to all schools in all division I sports. Of course my personal version of the AI would also be tied to the pool of applicants that had been admitted historically at each school. That would increase the odds of athletes being students instead of paid entertainers...Sadly, I don't see the NCAA standing up to the BCS schools in this manner. Which is part of the reason I was against UR joining the Patriot League in the past, the AI was a self imposed restriction on only a few schools.

They do this already. Google "NCAA clearinghouse".

And yes of course, if a Patriot League style AI was the requirement for all DI football programs...that would be different. But it's not and as you correctly pointed out, no reason to tie your legs together when schools like Stanford, Duke, etc. are running full speed ahead.

[MplsBison]

Sorry about your health. I have no kids, either. I did have discussion about college with my father, the Hartford-based bricklayer, which, when discussing UConn, which went "No son of mine is gonna go to that cow college."

I had been, in my previous post, reflecting on the likelihood of you maintaining a nurturing interpersonal relationship long enough to fertilize an egg. You have help close the gap in my knowledge, thanks.

I don't know how things are done out in "Nerw Mexico", but in the midwest one not need maintain a nurturing interpersonal relation to practice fertilizing an egg. You'll just have to trust me when i say that I've had enough practice to play the game for real.

[MplsBison]

In reality (and returning to the origin of this thread), the Patriot League in 2016 will look much as it does in 2012. Those that would consider joining will be deemed not small enough, not old enough, not academic enough, or too far removed from Pennsylvania. Those that the PL would gladly welcome remain uninterested.

And as for Georgetown and Fordham?

[Bogus Megapardus]

What would the purpose of making them beg beyond massaging someone's institutional ego? If there's ever been a post that can sum up the "cut off one's nose to spite one's face" attitude of Patriot League admins and fans over the past quarter century, this one is it.

You'd really force Delaware, of all schools to one knee? Really? A high-academic school with a fan base that any FCS school would die for? You evidently don't like to see Fisher Field filled with fans, then, that's the only explanation.

Ummm . . . you took me seriously? Was not my tongue planted firmly enough in my virtual cheek?

Besides, I wasn't suggesting that both Villanova and Delaware relocate. Just one would suffice. xrolleyesx

[HailSzczur]

If the CAA falls apart, I'd make them come begging. I mean grovelling, obsequious, genuflecting, down on one knee, kiss-the-ring sort of stuff. Villanova? Maybe. But it's another Pennsylvania school and it's too far from Holy Cross and Colgate. I'd say OK only if they moved their entire campus to, say, Albany or Pittsfield, Mass.


Referring to Villanova, they don't have to do all that. Just show Talley the door or tell him to drink a big cup of "shut the hell up"!

It's Villanova football, do you honestly think our administration would grovel? When we got good a few years back and the administration woke up and realized that we did infact have team the only sign of groveling they've shown is to the BE. I can't see us groveling to the PL, just trying to convince them what a good match we are.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Methinks Bogus was having a moment of reverie.

MB, thanks for catching the typo in my profile. Who says trolls are good for nothing?

[HailSzczur]

In reality (and returning to the origin of this thread), the Patriot League in 2016 will look much as it does in 2012. Those that would consider joining will be deemed not small enough, not old enough, not academic enough, or too far removed from Pennsylvania. Those that the PL would gladly welcome remain uninterested.

AMEN! All these changes are quite a few dominoes down the line. As much as we love to make up all these doomsday scenarios in the off season, what are the odds of them really happening. If Nova and Gtown fans had listened to the projections we'd be playing basketball in a CYO league with St. Joes (PA), Xavier, Dusquene, St Bonnies, and the non football half of the BE. Either that our the CYO side of the BE would have coupled with the shell left of Big XII. But as it stands now both BE and Big XII live on, though slightly different than they once were.

Things won't shake up enough in the next 3 years for all of this to happen. We'd be almost as likely to release everyone from their conference affiliations and start over from scratch

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Ummm . . . you took me seriously? Was not my tongue planted firmly enough in my virtual cheek?

Besides, I wasn't suggesting that both Villanova and Delaware relocate. Just one would suffice. xrolleyesx

Sorry about that. I think I missed the Bogie-tongue-in-cheek icon. My apologies.

PS. Lafayette still sucks xlolx

[Bogus Megapardus]

Sorry about that. I think I missed the Bogie-tongue-in-cheek icon. My apologies.

PS. Lafayette still sucks xlolx

You know, the way you reacted one would have thought I was suggesting that Villanova simply get up and build a whole new campus just to suit the geographical whims of the Patriot League.

Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm certain that the league would be fine if they just moved their existing buildings and infrastructure. No need to rebuild everything from the ground up.

[HailSzczur]

You know, the way you reacted one would have thought I was suggesting that Villanova simply get up and build a whole new campus just to suit the geographical whims of the Patriot League.

Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm certain that the league would be fine if they just moved their existing buildings and infrastructure. No need to rebuild everything from the ground up.

If it gets us out of Randor Township I'm all for it. Who knows, anywhere else and we might even be allowed to make big changes to the stadium or build a new one

[URMite]

They do this already. Google "NCAA clearinghouse".
And yes of course, if a Patriot League style AI was the requirement for all DI football programs...that would be different. But it's not and as you correctly pointed out, no reason to tie your legs together when schools like Stanford, Duke, etc. are running full speed ahead.

I'm not so sure they do. You will notice I said "tied to the pool of applicants that had been admitted historically at each school."
So I don't think the clearinghouse checks that no more than 2/3 of freshman admitted in the same year as the athlete have a greater standardized test score or GPA than the athlete or that no more than 2/3 of his classmates maintain a higher GPA each year than the athlete with a comparable course schedule.

If that were the case, then athletes would be able to blend in better with the general student body. Do you believe Duke basketball players or Stanford football players would universally pass the above test?

[MplsBison]

I'm not so sure they do. You will notice I said "tied to the pool of applicants that had been admitted historically at each school."
So I don't think the clearinghouse checks that no more than 2/3 of freshman admitted in the same year as the athlete have a greater standardized test score or GPA than the athlete or that no more than 2/3 of his classmates maintain a higher GPA each year than the athlete with a comparable course schedule.

If that were the case, then athletes would be able to blend in better with the general student body. Do you believe Duke basketball players or Stanford football players would universally pass the above test?

Honestly, no - they probably wouldn't.

My turn. Should that matter to anyone other than the school in question?

If a school completely ruins its academic brand because it chooses to admit football players who can't succeed academically - isn't that their own darn fault?!

[URMite]

Honestly, no - they probably wouldn't.

My turn. Should that matter to anyone other than the school in question?

If a school completely ruins its academic brand because it chooses to admit football players who can't succeed academically - isn't that their own darn fault?!

I can see where it could matter a bit to opponents and possibly to some fans. I see it more as a matter of transparency. It just seems it would make it simpler if the status of athletes were to be either distinct from students or more integrated into the student body at large.

When Richmond's academics spiked in the mid-nineties, it was hard for the academics of athletes to keep up, although it has never been perfect. Yes, when our academics were only slightly above average, we still had major sports figures who were Rhoades Scholar candidates or became NASA scientists, but...
We also had 3 freshman physics courses colloquially known as "Physics Major physics", "Liberal Arts physics", and "Football physics". The joke was that each had a one question final exam about dropping a rock.
For Football - Which way will it fall?
For Liberal Arts - How fast will it fall?
For Physics Majors - Why will it fall?

[MplsBison]

Winning seems to be a cure all.

I have to imagine that if Lafayette won the national title with a bunch of kids from inner city Philly who were dumb, but could play ball - even Bogus would look the other way.

All the while, the Lafayette academic brand wouldn't suffer an iota of harm.

[superman7515]

William & Mary Patient Amid CAA Turbulence (http://weblogs.dailypress.com/sports/etcblog/2012/04/william_and_mary_patient_amid.html)


William and Mary’s academic profile has led observers to wonder for years if the Tribe wouldn’t be a better fit in the Patriot League, whose members are smaller, private schools — William and Mary is public — with similar academic standards.

“We’ll be playing someplace. We’ve never been a great fit any place,” Driscoll said with a chuckle. “Being an outlier isn’t something new to us. We’ve had a long tradition here. There’s some reluctance, as always, to jump off the ship. I wish I had a little more clarification about what the CAA, if in fact these two schools move forward, what’s going to happen. Because then the conversations begin with Old Dominion and other people. Do they feel they have to move?”

Driscoll added, “For us to make a pre-emptive strike, it’s not really in our nature. It doesn’t mean we’re ignorant about what’s going on. It’s just that it’s a little early to get the troops up in arms about this or that when we don’t really have anything beyond speculation. There may be some interest from the Patriot League or some interest from somebody else. But at this point we’re in a little bit of a wait-and-see mod, evaluate what our options are and then make a decision — not to do anything too hastily.”

[Bogus Megapardus]

William & Mary Patient Amid CAA Turbulence (http://weblogs.dailypress.com/sports/etcblog/2012/04/william_and_mary_patient_amid.html)


Be patient. And yes, we'll leave the light on for you as well.

So that's two right there. One left to go. xcoolx

[MplsBison]

William & Mary Patient Amid CAA Turbulence (http://weblogs.dailypress.com/sports/etcblog/2012/04/william_and_mary_patient_amid.html)

Legitimate question as I don't know the answer: does W&M restrict their football staff to recruiting only players who would be in-line with the rest of the student body, academically?

[URMite]

Legitimate question as I don't know the answer: does W&M restrict their football staff to recruiting only players who would be in-line with the rest of the student body, academically?

I don't know for sure but they have always seemed to be that way in all sports, which has made there FCS football success (look at their regular season records under Laycock) even more impressive. On the other hand, they are one of a hand full of division I basketball teams to never play in the NCAA tournament.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

How about this one? I had no idea how nice of a stadium this highly regarded academic institution had until my friend, who's an alum, told me last night. When i looked it up my mind was blown.....


http://rpiathletics.com/images/2010/5/20/ECAV%208.jpg

http://rpiathletics.com/images/2010/5/19/ECAVStadium2.jpg

[van]

How about this one? I had no idea how nice of a stadium this highly regarded academic institution had until my friend, who's an alum, told me last night. When i looked it up my mind was blown.....


http://rpiathletics.com/images/2010/5/20/ECAV%208.jpg

http://rpiathletics.com/images/2010/5/19/ECAVStadium2.jpg

But they are the Engineers, not sure we can have two Engineers in the league.

[Bogus Megapardus]

But they are the Engineers, not sure we can have two Engineers in the league.


According to people who were at the meetings, it was built specifically for FCS football. It caught the attention of UAlbany, for sure.

[Dane96]

Bogus...not being an ***, but it was NOT built specifically for football at the FCS level. In fact, their new "arena" is 1500 seats...way less than anything legitimate for the DI level if you are:

a. Building something new
b. Building for a move up.

They had over 150 million to spend on athletic upgrades and they did not build a new arena that fits to a DI philosophy. The President has stated they are not intending to move.

And it never was an issue with us vs. them; our Stadium plans were on the books for many years prior to RPI thinking of this facility upgrade. In fact, RPI gave a big fat "FU" to the local high schools who wanted to hold playoff games, calling their facility "private use only."

That quickly got more local politicos on board with the UA project, and no doubt help push it through the final stages.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Bogus...not being an ***, but it was NOT built specifically for football at the FCS level. In fact, their new "arena" is 1500 seats...way less than anything legitimate for the DI level if you are:

a. Building something new
b. Building for a move up.

They had over 150 million to spend on athletic upgrades and they did not build a new arena that fits to a DI philosophy. The President has stated they are not intending to move.

And it never was an issue with us vs. them; our Stadium plans were on the books for many years prior to RPI thinking of this facility upgrade. In fact, RPI gave a big fat "FU" to the local high schools who wanted to hold playoff games, calling their facility "private use only."

That quickly got more local politicos on board with the UA project, and no doubt help push it through the final stages.


I fully understand. The FCS/1-AA talk was before the Proposition 65-1 vote and before the PL had scholarships. Nevertheless, Shirley Ann Jackson remains a strong supporter of sports. And, of course, as long-time football HC Joe King said, "you bring some kids in here and show them these facilities, they're I-AA-type facilities."

I don't think that Rensselaer will be moving up to DI anytime soon (other than Hockey). But I do think that the facilities at the East Campus Athletic Village were designed so that they could do so if they wanted to.

I hadn't heard the "private use only" remark but think that I understand it. The notion of civic noblesse oblige seems almost quaint in the Age of Obama. Why ask Rensselaer to donate the use of its privately-financed facility when government now has the authority (and the gumption) simply to require it by regulatory fiat?

The was a time when people had civic pride and felt a part of their government. Hosting a local high school game would have been a no-brainer. But government everywhere increasingly views private enterprise (and private citizens) as its enemy. So I sort of don't blame them.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Town-gown collaboration is alive and well in Lewisburg. where Lewisburg High uses Christy Matthewson Stadium for most of their home games. Obama must be President there, too.

[Go...gate]

Princeton University used to routinely open its facilities for public usage. Sadly, that ended in the 1980's.