"Some potentially good news" on Fordham VoyForums board

[Go...gate]

Poster bfg states as follows:

"I've heard from a pretty good source that Richmond and Villanova are interested in exploring a new I-AA scholarship football conference with the Patriot League schools. Hofstra may be in the mix as well. Holy Cross' ability to handle this from a Title IX perspective is the key to making this a reality".

In a subsequent post, it is also pointed out that Georgetown would not be likely to join such a conference.

CAA/A-10/PL posters - anybody know anything about this? Is it legitimate?

[Pards Rule]

a big hurdle is whether other Patriots will want to do scholarships..Its one thing for basketball, another football

[89Hen]

Don't know, but this part I wouldn't say is out of the question...

"I've heard from a pretty good source that Richmond and Villanova are interested in exploring a new I-AA scholarship football conference with the Patriot League schools."

But then he loses me here...

"Hofstra may be in the mix as well."

UR and VU have to be a little bit worried with ODU moving forward and the prospect of a 13 team CAA. I have no idea why Hofstra would consider this though.

[JMU Duke Dog]

Is Hofstra a public or private institution?

[JMU Duke Dog]

Also, aren't Albany and Stony Brook having scholarship I-AA football soon? I think some conference changes in the east are on the horizon.

[mainejeff]

Poster bfg states as follows:

"I've heard from a pretty good source that Richmond and Villanova are interested in exploring a new I-AA scholarship football conference with the Patriot League schools. Hofstra may be in the mix as well. Holy Cross' ability to handle this from a Title IX perspective is the key to making this a reality".

In a subsequent post, it is also pointed out that Georgetown would not be likely to join such a conference.

CAA/A-10/PL posters - anybody know anything about this? Is it legitimate?

From what I know......I would also say that the Rcihmond/Villanova thing is possible. The Hofstra thing is false.

[89Hen]

Is Hofstra a public or private institution?
Private, but not small... 8000 undergrad +/-

[Go...gate]

Hofstra might not be completely out of the question because they sought membership in the PL in or about 1993-94 and were turned down, for reasons which still confound me.

[JMU Duke Dog]

I only speak as one JMU person, but I would not mind seeing Hofstra leave.

[mainejeff]

Hofstra might not be completely out of the question because they sought membership in the PL in or about 1993-94 and were turned down, for reasons which still confound me.

I'd say that they are completely out of the question. I wouldn't be surprised if they did inquire about Patriot membership at some point over the past couple of years though.....probably just feelers before they made a final decision on what direction they wanted to go.

[UAalum72]

Also, aren't Albany and Stony Brook having scholarship I-AA football soon? I think some conference changes in the east are on the horizon.
Stony Brook has announced that 2006 will be their last season in the Northeast Conf. They will be an independent thereafter, to ramp up their scholarships faster than the NEC would allow.
http://goseawolves.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/041006aab.html

[kardplayer]

Hofstra might not be completely out of the question because they sought membership in the PL in or about 1993-94 and were turned down, for reasons which still confound me.

My guess would be academics...

[colgate13]

Read the whole thread folks...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Poster bfg states as follows:

"I've heard from a pretty good source that Richmond and Villanova are interested in exploring a new I-AA scholarship football conference with the Patriot League schools. Hofstra may be in the mix as well. Holy Cross' ability to handle this from a Title IX perspective is the key to making this a reality".

In a subsequent post, it is also pointed out that Georgetown would not be likely to join such a conference.

CAA/A-10/PL posters - anybody know anything about this? Is it legitimate?

:boring:

When was the last time Holy Cross led the charge on *anything* in the Patriot League? Come on. If this were really the case, they would look at Lehigh, Colgate or Bucknell, not Holy Cross.

Richmond and Villanova are affiliates. Yes, they may jump to the Patriot if pushed. Obviously basketball is of no concern here, just football. The fact that they would look at Title IX for guidance here is just stupid. Why wold they give a flying fornication about that? If they are in scholarship football they'd have the same issues with scholarships they already have, and it would not affect any other sports!

No way 'Nova and Richmond leave the Big East and A-10 for a new conference.

The reference to Hofstra is another indication that this is just wishful thinking, who has shown no indication that they are anything but happy with being in the CAA.

People wil beleive anything they read on a message board! : flamemad

[DTSpider]

I really don't see Richmond leaving the CAA. The school has the resourcecs to be a fully funded (in both scholarships and coaching/recruiting spending) at the 1AA level. We currently play a lot of state schools. Our study last year showed that there would be no financial savings in the patriot. No reason to move.

[henfan]

[QUOTE=Go...gate]Poster bfg states as follows:

"I've heard from a pretty good source that Richmond and Villanova are interested in exploring a new I-AA scholarship football conference with the Patriot League schools. Hofstra may be in the mix as well..."[QUOTE]

Anyone who believes the "pretty good source" quoted is just not smart and certainly not befitting of a Fordham education. These comments make no sense from any angle. xidiotx

Well, at least this part is true. UR, VU and HU are all interested in exploring a new I-AA scholarship FB conference. It's called the CAA and it starts in 2007.

[henfan]

Poster bfg states as follows:

"I've heard from a pretty good source that Richmond and Villanova are interested in exploring a new I-AA scholarship football conference with the Patriot League schools. Hofstra may be in the mix as well..."

Anyone who believes the "pretty good source" quoted is just not smart and certainly not befitting of a Fordham education. These comments make no sense from any angle. xidiotx

Well, at least this part is true. UR, VU and HU are all interested in exploring a new I-AA scholarship FB conference. It's called the CAA and it starts in 2007.

[Fordham]

save the slams henfan - bfg is a great poster on our board who is also very tied in with our admin. My guess is that he's simply passing along a conversation he had that is in its earliest stages, which makes it not surprising in the least that most schools would at least be open to a discussion so that they know what they're actually declining. There's such a big swirl going on from BCS conferences like the Big East on down through mid-majors adding scholarships that I think it would take a pretty remarkable crystal ball to get all the upcoming changes in the I-A & I-AA landscape that are coming down the pike in the next few years. I think any school that chose not to listen when other high profile schools might be talking about trying something new would be nuts to not at least listen to see what they're declining first.

What happens if the America East conference forms and takes with it the northern crew of the current A10/CAA? Does Hofstra suck it up and endure the heavy travel costs associated with the now-Virginia-centric CAA? Although I think the best odds are that they'd join the northern crew, who is to say that they wouldn't want to look at an alternative ... particularly if they knew that 'Nova & Richmond were among the core of a new conference?

and surely even someone with a UD education understands the difference between unlikely (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/unlikely)and impossible (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/impossible), no? as gate13 said "read the whole thread" and you'll soon see pretty much everyone dismiss Hofstra as unlikely ... as opposed to your "just not smart" comment which suggests its impossible.

[89Hen]

as gate13 said "read the whole thread" and you'll soon see pretty much everyone dismiss Hofstra as unlikely ... as opposed to your "just not smart" comment which suggests its impossible.
The poster says inside info and mentions Hofstra but everyone dismisses Hofstra as unlikely. If his "inside info" gave him Hofstra I'd pretty much dismiss the entire comment.

[henfan]

I meant no offense to your Fordham pal. I'm sure he's a terrific guy. :nod:

I'll take a look at the thread if someone cares to post a link. I'm definitely not interested in hunting it down.

Sorry, but, IMO, it's just not wise to repeat in a public forum every rumor or suggestion you hear, particularly if it contradicts plain facts. In any case, I definitely wouldn't characterize a highly unlikely message board rumor as "potentially good news", but that's just me.

Are these rumors impossible? Of course not. Then again, it's not entirely impossible to hit the Powerball twice in your lifetime. I'd hope someone with the least bit of knowledge about sports would be able to distinguish complete crap from something that's even remotely possible.

Again, no offense intended. Just trying to separate the ridiculous from the more probable.

[DTSpider]

The PL is at 7 teams right now.

In an ideal world for Richmond this would happen:

1. The PL would allow scholarships
2. Georgetown would commit to funding scholarships so that all 7 teams stay
3. UR, Nova, Hosftra go the PL as rumored
4. Joining them are W&M and VMI to give 12 teams
5. PL splits into two divisions
6. South division is VMI, UR, W&M, Georgetown, Nova & Bucknell

Barring that transformation I think that the PL talk for UR is just a back up plan. If the CAA has George Mason and Georgia State start football then maybe its a problem, but now the CAA seems to be a good home.

[Ruler 79]

I know this sounds like a long shot and has been dismissed but I have heard America East Football IS COMING and will consist of these teams:

Albany (will be full scholarship)
Stony Brook (will be full scholarship)
Rhode Island
UMASS
New Hampshire(I know they hate this idea)
Maine

and dont yell at me....HOFSTRA!

[colgate13]

The PL is at 7 teams right now.

In an ideal world for Richmond this would happen:

1. The PL would allow scholarships
2. Georgetown would commit to funding scholarships so that all 7 teams stay
3. UR, Nova, Hosftra go the PL as rumored
4. Joining them are W&M and VMI to give 12 teams
5. PL splits into two divisions
6. South division is VMI, UR, W&M, Georgetown, Nova & Bucknell

Barring that transformation I think that the PL talk for UR is just a back up plan. If the CAA has George Mason and Georgia State start football then maybe its a problem, but now the CAA seems to be a good home.

That's some pretty common sense. First, I think all of the talk on the UR or VU side is as a back up plan. Not a bad idea for affiliates to do. The talk on the PL side is trying to feel out opportunities that might exist with scholarships. Not a bad idea for a 7 team conference with two affiliates to do.

IMO, your #1 and #2 will happen (will G'Town support scholarships to the level of the rest of the league, probably not - but they will still use them to the level they can). #3 could happen with some CAA help or with just some better PL play with scholarships. #4 I'm sure the PL would salivate over W&M in the league, but I don't see them leaving the CAA ever. #5 and #6? Why not if the first four do?

[colgate13]

I know this sounds like a long shot and has been dismissed but I have heard America East Football IS COMING and will consist of these teams:

Albany (will be full scholarship)
Stony Brook (will be full scholarship)
Rhode Island
UMASS
New Hampshire(I know they hate this idea)
Maine

and dont yell at me....HOFSTRA!

With that group of schools, you don't get playoff autobid eligible for what, 5 years? Entirely possible though.

Best guess at time frame?

[colgate13]

I'll take a look at the thread if someone cares to post a link. I'm definitely not interested in hunting it down.

Link (http://xsorbit31.com/users5/rams/index.php?topic=2867.0)

[Dane96]

With that group of schools, you don't get playoff autobid eligible for what, 5 years? Entirely possible though.

Best guess at time frame?

My contacts have told me that this will not be an issue...some backroom work is taking place; look for a change in the playoff structure.

No hyperbole here!

[Fordham]

I meant no offense to your Fordham pal. I'm sure he's a terrific guy. :nod:

I'll take a look at the thread if someone cares to post a link. I'm definitely not interested in hunting it down.

Sorry, but, IMO, it's just not wise to repeat in a public forum every rumor or suggestion you hear, particularly if it contradicts plain facts. In any case, I definitely wouldn't characterize a highly unlikely message board rumor as "potentially good news", but that's just me.

Are these rumors impossible? Of course not. Then again, it's not entirely impossible to hit the Powerball twice in your lifetime. I'd hope someone with the least bit of knowledge about sports would be able to distinguish complete crap from something that's even remotely possible.

Again, no offense intended. Just trying to separate the ridiculous from the more probable. Actually I was the one who said it was unlikely and you were the one that continues to speak about it as if it's impossible. I'll also say that comparing Hofstra pursuing all options for the future of their football program to winning powerball twice is nvts.

My previous post laid out a plausible scenario that you chose to not reference under which they would at least consider alternatives in order to make sure they weren't pidgeon-holed if things shake out in a way that isn't in their favor. What in my post was ridiculous enough that you'd compare it to winning Powerball twice? Is it THAT far fetched that the CAA may add some more full members that lead to the America East-type splinter? Is it THAT far fetched that Hofstra would consider options that would not have them making overnights to most of the conference that they play in if they were to remain in the VA-ish CAA conference that remained? So just take it easy on the hyperbole - your comments would be more appropriate if he started a thread titled "I heard we'll be joining Hofstra in a new I-AA scholarship league".

[henfan]

I know this sounds like a long shot and has been dismissed but I have heard America East Football IS COMING and will consist of these teams:

Albany (will be full scholarship)
Stony Brook (will be full scholarship)
Rhode Island
UMASS
New Hampshire(I know they hate this idea)
Maine

and dont yell at me....HOFSTRA!

AEC football would be an absolutely terrific idea... for SBU and UA. SBU is going to have trouble getting home games as a I-AA indy and will have no automatic bid to the postseason. UA is going to outgrow the NEC in due time.

Arguably, it may also an OK idea for UNH & UMaine. On the good side of the ledger, a FB league might help further stabilize the league by satisfying SBU & UA's desires for an all-sport affiliation and minimize the chance for additional defections. On the bad side of things, teams in the new AEC would lose a playoff autobid until the new conference satisfies the NCAA waiting period. They'd also lose rivalries developed over the last 20 years with CAA schools, have fewer guaranteed home games (and, therefore, a much more difficult road to hoe in scheduling home games), see an overall decrease in conference competitiveness (no more JMU, W&M, UD), and surrender the historical records of the former Yankee Conference & A-10. Other than that, it sounds like a great deal.;)

In order for HU to join an AEC FB league, they'd have to withdraw all membership from the CAA. It would cost the school a $1M penalty if they wanted to leave without 2-years' notice. I'm still at a loss as to how HU administrators could explain to their constituents the costly move from the AEC to the CAA and back again within a decade, when there appears to be no pressing need- financial, competitive or otherwise- to do so. Odd that no HU administrator has even hinted publicly about a move out of the CAA, no member of the media has leaked that type of info and no HU booster has been able to publicly verify any interest whatsoever. Come to think of it, no one from HU has ever publicly mentioned that they are dissatisifed with the CAA in any way or that they are losing their shirt participating in the CAA. IMO, this is all not a coincidence. (BTW, HU has done very well competitively in CAA Olympic sports, winning the unofficial 'Commissioner's Cup' the last two years.)

If HU were ever to express issues with travel and finance, the CAA could accomodate them by expanding the Olympic sport conference to include a school or two in the mid-Atlantic/Northeast and splitting a 14 team conference into two 7 team divisions to minimize travel. There's absolutely no way the CAA just let's HU walk and disrupt the stability of the league. All of the wild speculation that has HU going back to the AEC seems to not take this into account.

But, hey, what do I know?

[henfan]

My contacts have told me that this will not be an issue...some backroom work is taking place; look for a change in the playoff structure.

No hyperbole here!

Dane, it seems this would require much more than "backroom work". It would require a fundamental change to the NCAA's D-I Bylaws and would necessarily impact championship eligiblity in other sports. We're talking a formal proposal of legislation first, followed by a series of votes with a majority of D-I membership & leadership in agreement.

[Dane96]

Dane, it seems this would require much more than "backroom work". It would require a fundamental change to the NCAA's D-I Bylaws and would necessarily impact championship eligiblity in other sports. We're talking a formal proposal of legislation first, followed by a series of votes with a majority of D-I membership & leadership in agreement.

hen...check your pm.

[rufus]

I personally can't see Hofstra leaving the CAA right now. I think the CAA and AEC are going to look something like this in 2010:

*CAA*
W&M
JMU
Delaware
Towson
Hofstra
Northeastern
Old Dominion
Richmond
Villanova

*AEC*
Stony Brook
Albany
Maine
URI
UMass
UNH
????

I can only see the AEC picking up Hofstra and Northeastern if the CAA football conference disolves for some reason. I think a couple things could cause such a scenario. A move to I-A by some combination of JMU/UD/ODU could trigger a collapse. Even a move to the Patriot by Villanova and Richmond could shake things up. Who would replace Nova and UR? VMI and Liberty? That's not exactly an even trade.

I can see Hofstra and Northeastern in the AEC at some point in the future, but not any time soon.

[OL FU]

I personally can't see Hofstra leaving the CAA right now. I think the CAA and AEC are going to look something like this in 2010:

*CAA*
W&M
JMU
Delaware
Towson
Hofstra
Northeastern
Old Dominion
Richmond
Villanova

*AEC*
Stony Brook
Albany
Maine
URI
UMass
UNH
????

I can only see the AEC picking up Hofstra and Northeastern if the CAA football conference disolves for some reason. I think a couple things could cause such a scenario. A move to I-A by some combination of JMU/UD/ODU could trigger a collapse. Even a move to the Patriot by Villanova and Richmond could shake things up. Who would replace Nova and UR? VMI and Liberty? That's not exactly an even trade.

I can see Hofstra and Northeastern in the AEC at some point in the future, but not any time soon.

Jumping in late, but if Nove and Richmond left why would the CAA need to replace them?

[mainejeff]

I know this sounds like a long shot and has been dismissed but I have heard America East Football IS COMING and will consist of these teams:

Albany (will be full scholarship)
Stony Brook (will be full scholarship)
Rhode Island
UMASS
New Hampshire(I know they hate this idea)
Maine

and dont yell at me....HOFSTRA!

I've heard the same thing!.........which makes the Villanova and Richmond football to the Patriot rumors make more sense. :nod:

[mainejeff]

Jumping in late, but if Nove and Richmond left why would the CAA need to replace them?

Northeastern
Delaware
Towson
James Madison
William & Mary
ODU

They wouldn't. They would still have 6 teams.

[rufus]

Jumping in late, but if Nove and Richmond left why would the CAA need to replace them?
I just don't see the CAA being comfortable with 7 teams. What happens if another team or two leaves (either for I-A or the AEC)? Bye bye auto-bid. If Richmond and Villanova were to leave, I think the CAA would add at least one more team.

[rufus]

Northeastern
Delaware
Towson
James Madison
William & Mary
ODU

They wouldn't. They would still have 6 teams.
I just don't see the CAA being comfortable with 6 or 7 teams (depending on where Hofstra is). What happens if another team or two leaves (either for I-A or the AEC)? Bye bye auto-bid.

If Richmond and Villanova were to leave, I think the CAA would add at least one more team.

[OL FU]

I just don't see the CAA being comfortable with 6 or 7 teams (depending on where Hofstra is). What happens if another team or two leaves (either for I-A or the AEC)? Bye bye auto-bid.

If Richmond and Villanova were to leave, I think the CAA would add at least one more team.

I was thinking they would still have 10 plus ODU when they start. I was not thinking about the affiliates no longer playing football in the CAA.

[DTSpider]

I think that a lot of this talk depends on what happens with programs at George Mason and Georgia State. If those places start football that'll really change the landscape of the CAA. The league would then have a lot of big state commuter schools (GMU, GSU, Towson, ODU) which are not appealing conference mates for schools like Richmond & Nova. If JMU keeps expanding to be 30,000 students than it's very different as well. However, if JMU keeps expanding they are not going to stay in the CAA IMO (hello CUSA).

Those moves could help drive Richmond & Nova into the PL where the schools are more similar. However, keeping W&M on the schedule is very important, as is maintaining a 1A game & VMI.

[henfan]

I just don't see the CAA being comfortable with 6 or 7 teams...

You got it. :thumbsup:

[89Hen]

If JMU keeps expanding to be 30,000 students than it's very different as well. However, if JMU keeps expanding they are not going to stay in the CAA IMO (hello CUSA).
Do you really see this as a possibility? What are the figures at JMU?

[rufus]

That depends on who you ask. At one point, the admin claimed that our enrollment would be capped at 10,000. When I was in school (less than 10 years ago), we were told that growth would stop at 12,000. Later that figure was changed to 15,000. JMU's current enrollment is 17,000, and the admin is now looking at 20,000 - 22,000 as a cap. I'll believe it when I see it.

We've been growing at about 500-700 students per year.

[mainejeff]

That depends on who you ask. At one point, the admin claimed that our enrollment would be capped at 10,000. When I was in school (less than 10 years ago), we were told that growth would stop at 12,000. Later that figure was changed to 15,000. JMU's current enrollment is 17,000, and the admin is now looking at 20,000 - 22,000 as a cap. I'll believe it when I see it.

We've been growing at about 500-700 students per year.

Wow, there must be some major construction happening on JMU's campus.

[Go...gate]

....and why is it inappropriate, as someone said, to share a post from a reputable poster on the Fordham board? Their board is actually very good and the participants very knowledgeable.

[Fordham]

I read that comment as a knock on bfg, the Fordham poster who made the original post, as opposed to a knock on you go...gate.

[JoltinJoe]

As "Fordham" says, if bfg posted this on the Fordham board, he had good reason to do so. bfg is not an anonymous poster. Virtually everyone posting on the Fordham board knows who he is and he has a great deal of credibility.

In addition, another poster later confirmed that this was being discussed, and that Fordham was included in the discussions. That other poster, JohnG92, is also not an anonymous poster and is intimately connected with the football program.

This is good information. Essentially, the PL schools are seriously considering whether to add scholarships, and Villanova and Richmond are interested in associating with the PL if the league goes scholarship. This situation may not be boiling over just yet, but the discussions are real.

[colgate13]

This is good information. Essentially, the PL schools are seriously considering whether to add scholarships, and Villanova and Richmond are interested in associating with the PL if the league goes scholarship. This situation may not be boiling over just yet, but the discussions are real.

Yes. Great way to put it Joe!

[henfan]

Those moves could help drive Richmond & Nova into the PL where the schools are more similar. However, keeping W&M on the schedule is very important, as is maintaining a 1A game & VMI.

Good point about the W&M rivalry. UD and VU value their FB rivalry also.

GSU and GMU FB appear to be nowhere on the immediate horizon. The CAA also doesn't seem to be in a hurry to move along good affiliates like UR (WGolf & FB) and VU (MLax & FB), regardless of what GSU & GMU ultimately decide.

[Go...gate]

I agree, Fordham - no offense taken by me. I was sticking up for bfg and the Fordham board generally. You guys over there (and here) have always been a class act.

[LBPop]

This situation may not be boiling over just yet, but the discussions are real.

From the Georgetown point of view, the issue always starts with $$$. The Hoyas have what has to be the smallest overall football budget in the Patriot League. Having said that but having watched the new AD for about a year now, I would not be at all surprised to learn that he is very much a part of these discussions (should they actually be taking place).

This man has a big time football program background (Big Ten and Notre Dame) and I can easily envision him working toward scholarship football. Of course, he's gotta find the money, but if his new coach starts winning I suspect the fund raising will improve greatly. :twocents:

[JMU Duke Dog]

How about these as possible future conferences? Please discuss!

America East
Albany
Hofstra
Maine
Massachusetts
New Hampshire
Northeastern
Rhode Island
Stony Brook

Big South/Southern (new name?)
Charleston Southern
Citadel
Elon
Gardner-Webb
Liberty
VMI
Wofford

Colonial/Southern (new name?)
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina
Delaware
Furman
Georgia Southern
James Madison
Old Dominion
Towson
Western Carolina
William & Mary

Ohio Valley
Eastern Illinois
Eastern Kentucky
Jacksonville State
Murray State
Samford
Southeast Missouri State
Tennessee-Chattanooga
Tennessee-Martin
Tennessee State
Tennessee Tech

Patriot
Bucknell
Colgate
Fordham
Holy Cross
Georgetown
Lafayette
Lehigh
Richmond
Villanova

[mainejeff]

....and why is it inappropriate, as someone said, to share a post from a reputable poster on the Fordham board? Their board is actually very good and the participants very knowledgeable.

Let's face it.....some people just don't like what they are hearing.

[mainejeff]

How about these as possible future conferences? Please discuss!

America East
Albany
Hofstra
Maine
Massachusetts
New Hampshire
Northeastern
Rhode Island
Stony Brook

Big South/Southern (new name?)
Charleston Southern
Citadel
Elon
Gardner-Webb
Liberty
VMI
Wofford

Colonial/Southern (new name?)
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina
Delaware
Furman
Georgia Southern
James Madison
Old Dominion
Towson
Western Carolina
William & Mary

Ohio Valley
Eastern Illinois
Eastern Kentucky
Jacksonville State
Murray State
Samford
Southeast Missouri State
Tennessee-Chattanooga
Tennessee-Martin
Tennessee State
Tennessee Tech

Patriot
Bucknell
Colgate
Fordham
Holy Cross
Georgetown
Lafayette
Lehigh
Richmond
Villanova

That looks pretty good to me, although I'm not sure if some of the CAA snobbery would allow the Georgia Southerns and Western Carolinas of the world into their house.

[Go...gate]

That Colonial/Southern Conference would be awesome. That AEC should just be called the Yankee Conference for old time's sake.

[89Hen]

Colonial/Southern (new name?)
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina
Delaware
Furman
Georgia Southern
James Madison
Old Dominion
Towson
Western Carolina
William & Mary
No way Jose. The only thing that would be good about that is we could finally put the best conference debate to rest. You've got 5 of the last 7 National Champions (and a runner up) and nearly half of the 2004 playoff field in there.

[mainejeff]

No way Jose. The only thing that would be good about that is we could finally put the best conference debate to rest. You've got 5 of the last 7 National Champions (and a runner up) and nearly half of the 2004 playoff field in there.

Agreed. William & Mary already has the hives about being associated with half the schools in the CAA......this would drive them over the edge.

[JMU Duke Dog]

Agreed. William & Mary already has the hives about being associated with half the schools in the CAA......this would drive them over the edge.

Maybe W&M could go to the "new Patriot" if the "new Colonial/Southern" ever decided to go to I-A.

[mainejeff]

Maybe W&M could go to the "new Patriot" if the "new Colonial/Southern" ever decided to go to I-A.

Tell 'em that Harvard and Yale are in it.....and they're there!!!

[JMU Duke Dog]

Tell 'em that Harvard and Yale are in it.....and they're there!!!

Very true! xlolx

[JMU Duke Dog]

No way Jose. The only thing that would be good about that is we could finally put the best conference debate to rest. You've got 5 of the last 7 National Champions (and a runner up) and nearly half of the 2004 playoff field in there.

Well at least we would not have to debate it anymore; however, I believe there are some out there who would still think otherwise.

[89Hen]

however, I believe there are some out there who would still think otherwise.
I'd love to see them try to make a case.:read:

[Lehigh Football Nation]

....and why is it inappropriate, as someone said, to share a post from a reputable poster on the Fordham board? Their board is actually very good and the participants very knowledgeable.

I'm not trying to be mean here. Im just callin' it as I see it.

What does:


"I've heard from a pretty good source that Richmond and Villanova are interested in exploring a new I-AA scholarship football conference with the Patriot League schools. Hofstra may be in the mix as well. Holy Cross' ability to handle this from a Title IX perspective is the key to making this a reality".

have to do with anything? To me, that's a completely inane statement. In this whole thread I have seen nothing to counteract that particular part of the statement. I *have*, however, seen a lot of pooh-poohing Hofstra's chances of leaving the CAA.

I'll say this again: if it's a new I-AA SCHOLARSHIP conference, then Holy Cross' way of handling Title IX under the rules of grants-in-aid is moot *if* we were talking about an all-sports move. Making it even less relevant is that Richmond, Villanova, and (presumably) Fordham and Holy Cross would be affiliates! Richmond's and Villanova's Title IX and/or scholly situation would not change one iota, while Fordham's and Holy Cross' would (marginally) increase! Title IX is completely irrelevant!

And where is Sam Hill is Holy Cross in this discussion? Are they REALLY bucking 15 years of trend of less emphasis on football and going to a full-scholly conference? To me, them leaving isn't wishful thinking on my part, it just makes no sense. For 15 years Holy Cross has been a "no" on football scholarships. What's the reason they've done a 180? Certainly not basketball - they have their scholarships.

The fact that the Patriot League may be discussing the addition of scholarships for football instead of grants-in-aid may be true. But I fail to see what Holy Cross or Hofstra has in these discussions except to get message board folks fired up. Hofstra was rejected years ago for PL membership. What has changed? Holy Cross wasn't interested at all in scholarships. What has changed? Fordham's AD was approached about joining the A-10 when the CAA was going to take it over and they said no. What has changed?

I think the feelings of the many CAA folks that have weighed in on the issue is true - that the Patriot League is a "Plan B", not a "Plan A", for Richmond and Villanova. If anything, Duquesne's AD saying that the Patriot League is not inerested in affiliates should further bolster that case.

[colgate13]

I don't put much weight in the Duquesne AD's comment. The PL isn't taking affiliates like the Dukes. If Richmond or Villanova were on the table, you bet your ass we would. In fact, we almost did last year (Richmond)!

If you really want to get the full scale of this online discussion, check out the Holy Cross board (http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=5517). It is down right this second, but there is a big thread right at the top of the football section that is about this. It starts with the statement that someone from Holy Cross heard this info from good sources and Holy Cross was debating scholarships or dropping football all together.

Hofstra IMO has no role. Holy Cross has a role because they are the current force slowing down (they will not stop it) Patriot League football scholarships.

[Brad82]

Short term this would help Rhody,long term would be questionable. UNH,UMass and Maine are typically great teams and programs. Albany and Stoney Brook right now are lousy. Not sure from a FB perspective what this would accomplish? Can someone tell me how Rhody would benefit?


B...

[mainejeff]

Short term this would help Rhody,long term would be questionable. UNH,UMass and Maine are typically great teams and programs. Albany and Stoney Brook right now are lousy. Not sure from a FB perspective what this would accomplish? Can someone tell me how Rhody would benefit?


B...

How are they benefitting now? :confused:

[Brad82]

Maine Jeff,
You didn't read my post,this would just be a reshuffling-or can you point out otherwise? My prediction,Maine would continue to be a .500 or sub .500 team also. Maine has gotten a little better from when I beat them four years in a row with ease.

[OL FU]

Colonial/Southern (new name?)
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina
Delaware
Furman
Georgia Southern
James Madison
Old Dominion
Towson
Western Carolina
William & Mary

Who are the big three in this conference:confused: :eek:

[Uncle Buck]

I only speak as one JMU person, but I would not mind seeing Hofstra leave.

I just started reading this thread and have to ask, where's your love for Hofstra?

Second, I was playing with the team back when we were an independent looking for a conference affiliation. The Patriot League was a good option at the time because it was easy travel and need-based money. Once we were turned down based on what I am assuming was academics not being on par with the rest of the conference, the university shifted it's focus to scholarship football and the A-10 which was an established power in 1AA. With the new CAA affiliation, I have never heard anything come from Hofstra about leaving for a new conference. Perhaps before the CAA decided to sponsor football there was talk about a football only conference, but now that it's all sports, Hofstra isn't leaving. Sorry JMU Duke Dog :smiley_wi

[colgate13]

FYI -

Here is the thread I referenced before on Holy Cross's board: http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/thread.php?forumid=33744&threadid=824831

One more thing on the Duquesne AD quote: I have to imagine he's also speaking on behalf of Duquesne's best interests. He's not about to say to the public: "The Patriot would take an affiliate, but we're not a good enough school academically and we don't have a good enough program athletically to overlook that."

[Fordham]

I'm not trying to be mean here. Im just callin' it as I see it.

What does:



have to do with anything? To me, that's a completely inane statement. In this whole thread I have seen nothing to counteract that particular part of the statement. I *have*, however, seen a lot of pooh-poohing Hofstra's chances of leaving the CAA.

I'll say this again: if it's a new I-AA SCHOLARSHIP conference, then Holy Cross' way of handling Title IX under the rules of grants-in-aid is moot *if* we were talking about an all-sports move. Making it even less relevant is that Richmond, Villanova, and (presumably) Fordham and Holy Cross would be affiliates! Richmond's and Villanova's Title IX and/or scholly situation would not change one iota, while Fordham's and Holy Cross' would (marginally) increase! Title IX is completely irrelevant!

And where is Sam Hill is Holy Cross in this discussion? Are they REALLY bucking 15 years of trend of less emphasis on football and going to a full-scholly conference? To me, them leaving isn't wishful thinking on my part, it just makes no sense. For 15 years Holy Cross has been a "no" on football scholarships. What's the reason they've done a 180? Certainly not basketball - they have their scholarships.

The fact that the Patriot League may be discussing the addition of scholarships for football instead of grants-in-aid may be true. But I fail to see what Holy Cross or Hofstra has in these discussions except to get message board folks fired up. Hofstra was rejected years ago for PL membership. What has changed? Holy Cross wasn't interested at all in scholarships. What has changed? Fordham's AD was approached about joining the A-10 when the CAA was going to take it over and they said no. What has changed?

I think the feelings of the many CAA folks that have weighed in on the issue is true - that the Patriot League is a "Plan B", not a "Plan A", for Richmond and Villanova. If anything, Duquesne's AD saying that the Patriot League is not inerested in affiliates should further bolster that case.

LFN, I don't have anything more than a cursory understanding of Title IX, so I'll defer to what is inferred in your post as a superior understanding of the topic. The one thing I will say is that a brief conversation I had with a very high up administration official at Fordham confirmed the same thing. Thus, remember that all that bfg was doing in his thread on the Fordham board was passing along info he was told as opposed to making things up, etc.

So the real question is 'why does someone high up in our admin. believe that there truly is a Title IX issue'?

Edit: gate13's link to the HC board has the following quote on page 3:


hc69

As '13 points out, their need-based football aid is already in their athletically related aid. Some of ours isn't. That's because we guarantee all admits 100% of need, while Colgate does not. So if one of our football players gets only need-based aid (i.e., we don't give him an athletics grant in lieu of work-study), his aid is not athletically related. This is reflected in the athletically related aid part of the EADA report. Colgate reports about $4 million for men's sports, while we report $2.3 million. It's not that they're giving almost $2 million more in need-based aid, but that some of ours isn't athletically related. '13 is also correct in that Colgate could reallocate some need-based aid to scholarships without triggering Title IX considerations, because that money is already counted.

But if we went scholarship, and continued to guarantee all admits 100% of need, then the additional money we spent on scholarships for men would require an equal amount for women. The bottom line cost of scholarships would be very different for Colgate and HC. Redistributing existing need-based aid is not an option for us. There's no way on God's green earth that we're going to say "we guarantee all admits 100% of need, except for athletes" when 30% of our incoming freshmen are athletes.

[Fordham]

I just started reading this thread and have to ask, where's your love for Hofstra?

Second, I was playing with the team back when we were an independent looking for a conference affiliation. The Patriot League was a good option at the time because it was easy travel and need-based money. Once we were turned down based on what I am assuming was academics not being on par with the rest of the conference, the university shifted it's focus to scholarship football and the A-10 which was an established power in 1AA. With the new CAA affiliation, I have never heard anything come from Hofstra about leaving for a new conference. Perhaps before the CAA decided to sponsor football there was talk about a football only conference, but now that it's all sports, Hofstra isn't leaving. Sorry JMU Duke Dog :smiley_wi

UB - Overall I wish we could be in the same conference together at some point since I like the idea of a league that has two schools per geographical area in order to build up rivalries, reduce travel costs, etc. If not that, I hope we can at least get an annual game on the skid again (at least once we rebuild the program).

Here's my question for you, though - if the "AE" schools break off to form a new conference, what will Hofstra do?

[Uncle Buck]

Fordham, I would love to see you guys on the schedule again since i think it could be a great local rivalry as well. I think the A-10 and the Patriot have had a nice relationship and I think it would only make sense geographically speaking. As for what will HU do if the AE schools form their own conference, at this point, I think nothing. HU worked too hard to get into a conference, especially an all-sports one. Things are going too well for them to leave right now.

[Dane96]

Maine Jeff,
You didn't read my post,this would just be a reshuffling-or can you point out otherwise? My prediction,Maine would continue to be a .500 or sub .500 team also. Maine has gotten a little better from when I beat them four years in a row with ease.

10 years (maybe even sooner) URI will be done with football. The loss of the bond refererndum hurt what has been historically a struggling program. I have very tight ties to that school and I would not be suprised if they threw in the football towel for DI hockey (something which they would be VERY good at...and profitable).

[JMU Duke Dog]

I just started reading this thread and have to ask, where's your love for Hofstra?

Second, I was playing with the team back when we were an independent looking for a conference affiliation. The Patriot League was a good option at the time because it was easy travel and need-based money. Once we were turned down based on what I am assuming was academics not being on par with the rest of the conference, the university shifted it's focus to scholarship football and the A-10 which was an established power in 1AA. With the new CAA affiliation, I have never heard anything come from Hofstra about leaving for a new conference. Perhaps before the CAA decided to sponsor football there was talk about a football only conference, but now that it's all sports, Hofstra isn't leaving. Sorry JMU Duke Dog :smiley_wi

Sorry about my Hofstra comment Uncle Buck. I have nothing against Hofstra or those affiliated with Hofstra. I am just one of the few "southern" (compared to most JMU students but not from the true deep south) students at JMU and have always desired to be in a conference of schools that I heard about while growing up. For me personally, I would not mind JMU ditching any of the northern schools in a future conference scenario.

[henfan]

Rhody dumped a bunch of money in the new FB press box at Meade Stadium in '03. Last year they refurbished the existing grandstand, installed a new scoreboard and completed FB lockeroom facilities at the Ryan Center. This year they're unveiling the new west grandstand as part of their $2M renovation project.

After years of inertia, I'm not sure why URI would invest all those bucks in football facilities if they were interested in dropping FB. Seems like a huge waste of cash. That $2M+ would have taken them a long way towards an NCAA hockey start up.

Of course, if we're talking a decade from now, all bets might be off.

[Uncle Buck]

Sorry about my Hofstra comment Uncle Buck. I have nothing against Hofstra or those affiliated with Hofstra. I am just one of the few "southern" (compared to most JMU students but not from the true deep south) students at JMU and have always desired to be in a conference of schools that I heard about while growing up. For me personally, I would not mind JMU ditching any of the northern schools in a future conference scenario.

Just breaking horns, but I am glad to be in the A-10 and soon to be CAA:hurray:

[Dane96]

Rhody dumped a bunch of money in the new FB press box at Meade Stadium in '03. Last year they refurbished the existing grandstand, installed a new scoreboard and completed FB lockeroom facilities at the Ryan Center. This year they're unveiling the new west grandstand as part of their $2M renovation project.

After years of inertia, I'm not sure why URI would invest all those bucks in football facilities if they were interested in dropping FB. Seems like a huge waste of cash. That $2M+ would have taken them a long way towards an NCAA hockey start up.

Of course, if we're talking a decade from now, all bets might be off.

It is a short term investment IMHO (to keep the program alive). They were 100% sure the bond vote would pass and were stunned when it did not. They had earmarked school funds for a new stadium...so it just got re-routed to a refurbished stadium.

Rhody has a few issues with football, notably a lack of institutional support (notwithstanding the recent field upgrades. The state is not a football hotbed and regularly loses players who are good to other DI schools, both IA and IAA.

Now, Hockey on the otherhand, could be started easily...and RI is a hockey haven!

[Go...gate]

Funny thing about Holy Cross is that they once pretty much held sway in the PL because of the scholarship issue (they wanted them and nobody else did). Now the situation is reversed and Holy Cross seems to be scrambling to catch up. Whatever happens, I hope they do not drop football.

As far as Hofstra is concerned, I for one think the PL made a mistake not admitting them. I'm glad they found a good conference and have had success. A lot of hard work and money have gone into the betterment of that school.

Which leaves us back at Richmond and Villanova....

[henfan]

Rhody has a few issues with football, notably a lack of institutional support...

Now, Hockey on the otherhand, could be started easily...and RI is a hockey haven!

No doubt. I'm with you, though folks have been predicting the demise of Rhody FB for at least the last 15 years. It's good to see them finally making some effort to put money back into FB.

If they can manage to string together a couple of winning seasons like UNH and garner some support, there's no telling how that would impact things down the line. Back in the day, I remember Rhody having decent support at Meade. When they were competing for YankCon titles, they even had nice crowds travel down to Newark.

And as a yogi once said:read: , "It's not over 'til it's over."

[blukeys]

For me personally, I would not mind JMU ditching any of the northern schools in a future conference scenario.


Just which Northern schools would you like to ditch?

[mainejeff]

Maine Jeff,
You didn't read my post,this would just be a reshuffling-or can you point out otherwise? My prediction,Maine would continue to be a .500 or sub .500 team also. Maine has gotten a little better from when I beat them four years in a row with ease.

A little bitter? Yeah, URI was great when you were there what.......25 years ago :confused:.

[mainejeff]

10 years (maybe even sooner) URI will be done with football. The loss of the bond refererndum hurt what has been historically a struggling program. I have very tight ties to that school and I would not be suprised if they threw in the football towel for DI hockey (something which they would be VERY good at...and profitable).

Agreed.

[JMU Duke Dog]

Just which Northern schools would you like to ditch?

The ones that I earlier posted that were not included in the new "Colonial/Southern" as I would like to keep Delaware around in the same conference as JMU. However, I do not know how much Delaware would want to be the northernmost school in its conference as I am sure that the Blue Hens have more of a sense of a rivalry with some of the northern schools especially with nearby Villanova.

[njhoya]

I meant no offense to your Fordham pal. I'm sure he's a terrific guy. :nod:

I'll take a look at the thread if someone cares to post a link. I'm definitely not interested in hunting it down.

Sorry, but, IMO, it's just not wise to repeat in a public forum every rumor or suggestion you hear, particularly if it contradicts plain facts. In any case, I definitely wouldn't characterize a highly unlikely message board rumor as "potentially good news", but that's just me.

Are these rumors impossible? Of course not. Then again, it's not entirely impossible to hit the Powerball twice in your lifetime. I'd hope someone with the least bit of knowledge about sports would be able to distinguish complete crap from something that's even remotely possible.

Again, no offense intended. Just trying to separate the ridiculous from the more probable.

It would be impossible for me to hit the powerball number twice. From a financial standpoint Iprobablywouldn't need the money so I wouldn't play it a second time:hurray:

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

10 years (maybe even sooner) URI will be done with football. The loss of the bond refererndum hurt what has been historically a struggling program. I have very tight ties to that school and I would not be suprised if they threw in the football towel for DI hockey (something which they would be VERY good at...and profitable).

So, tell me again why America East Football relying on URI is a good idea?????

D96, reading your post just reinforces opinions that I posted multiple times before. AE Football isn't feasible without more than six football playing all-sports members. And somebody please enlighten me, where are those six schools going to come from? That is, schools that allows AE Football to be a lateral move rather than a significant step down for Maine and UNH?

Jeff, I can't believe you're on the bandwagon for AE Football. How does it help Maine? Nobody has said anything to convince me AE Football is a good thing for UNH!! And as long as it's not the ONLY option for UNH Football, then I'm against it. Like ccd said, why are we trying to fix something that isn't broke???????????????

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN, I don't have anything more than a cursory understanding of Title IX, so I'll defer to what is inferred in your post as a superior understanding of the topic. The one thing I will say is that a brief conversation I had with a very high up administration official at Fordham confirmed the same thing. Thus, remember that all that bfg was doing in his thread on the Fordham board was passing along info he was told as opposed to making things up, etc.

So the real question is 'why does someone high up in our admin. believe that there truly is a Title IX issue'?


A very, very fair point, and the thread is a very great discussion on scholarships.

However... I think your quotation basically proves my point:

hc69


As '13 points out, their need-based football aid is already in their athletically related aid. Some of ours isn't. That's because we guarantee all admits 100% of need, while Colgate does not. So if one of our football players gets only need-based aid (i.e., we don't give him an athletics grant in lieu of work-study), his aid is not athletically related....

But if we went scholarship, and continued to guarantee all admits 100% of need, then the additional money we spent on scholarships for men would require an equal amount for women. The bottom line cost of scholarships would be very different for Colgate and HC. ...

This is consistent with what I said before:


.. if it's a new I-AA SCHOLARSHIP conference, then Holy Cross' way of handling Title IX under the rules of grants-in-aid is moot *if* we were talking about an all-sports move. Making it even less relevant is that Richmond, Villanova, and (presumably) Fordham and Holy Cross would be affiliates! Richmond's and Villanova's Title IX and/or scholly situation would not change one iota, while Fordham's and Holy Cross' would (marginally) increase!

I see nothing new here. Folks high-up are talking about scholarships and Title IX. But nothing has really changed. Holy Cross still has concerns (legit or not). Hofstra's not going anywhere. Certainly Holy Cross' stance on Title IX isn't "the key to a new conference". It even looks from the thread that all the HC posters, to a person, are pretty nervous about going full scholarship in football.

And then, you have nothing left from the original post, except that "the higher-ups in the Patriot League are talking about scholarships". This sounds like the game of telephone, where "PL ADs are talking about scholarships" becomes "A new league is coming about with Hofstra, Fordham, and Holy Cross leading the charge".

[colgate13]

LFN -

Thread or no thread, the Patriot League presidents have been looking at football scholarships since last fall. There is serious movement here. Right now Holy Cross is the obstacle - but it will be a delay; not an obstruction.

[Pard4Life]

LFN -

Thread or no thread, the Patriot League presidents have been looking at football scholarships since last fall. There is serious movement here. Right now Holy Cross is the obstacle - but it will be a delay; not an obstruction.

Agreed, from what I hear in the Lafayette community (and from my own prespective on the issue) football scholarships are a PL inevitability if we are going to survive in IAA and as a league. Either HC subscribes or not.. we are still moving foward.

If they don't award scholarships, where do they go? Pioneer? D3? Certainly staying in the PL would be moot.. you are looking at last place each year.

[colgate13]

If they don't award scholarships, where do they go? Pioneer? D3? Certainly staying in the PL would be moot.. you are looking at last place each year.

They actually have a third option which I think is more possible: you drop football. You then can stay in the PL as an American type school or you are now free to join the MAAC's of the world unincumbered by football issues. I think that is as equally likely a scenario as agreeing to go to scholarships.

FWIW (and since there are no Holy Cross posters that show themsleves I will hope to bait them) - over the past 10-15 years Holy Cross has gotten pretty comfortable around last place. At least if everyone else is giving scholarships they'd have an excuse!

[Pard4Life]

They actually have a third option which I think is more possible: you drop football. You then can stay in the PL as an American type school or you are now free to join the MAAC's of the world unincumbered by football issues. I think that is as equally likely a scenario as agreeing to go to scholarships.

FWIW (and since there are no Holy Cross posters that show themsleves I will hope to bait them) - over the past 10-15 years Holy Cross has gotten pretty comfortable around last place. At least if everyone else is giving scholarships they'd have an excuse!

Yeah, I'd be quite unhappy to see them drop football. Now that G'town won't be in last place anymore, it would be good for each PL team to have an easy win on their schedule. That being said, if the situation does not improve, when does Gilmore bolt?

Also, where is the alumni resistance? Or is basketball they only thing they care about? I don't think the MAAC would be better than the PL for basketball. That could be a way to coax them into scholarships (or drop football).. fear of having to move to the MAAC in all sports.

[colgate13]

Yeah, I'd be quite unhappy to see them drop football. Now that G'town won't be in last place anymore, it would be good for each PL team to have an easy win on their schedule. That being said, if the situation does not improve, when does Gilmore bolt?

Also, where is the alumni resistance? Or is basketball they only thing they care about? I don't think the MAAC would be better than the PL for basketball. That could be a way to coax them into scholarships (or drop football).. fear of having to move to the MAAC in all sports.

You've pretty much summed up the debate. The alums that care are older and have been beaten down by losing for so long.

And there are plenty out there that have big time hoop dreams on their mind. MAAC and elsewhere.

[Fordham]

LFN, a few things:

1. You said that there is no new information but the original thread referenced on the Fordham board contains information that confirms for the first time that we are firmly in the pro-scholarship camp. It also passes along conversations with administration officials that we will only go scholarship if HC does as well. It also states that our administration has confirmed 'Nova & UR's 'feelers' about scholarship football in a league other than the CAA. Again, I know you're much more tied in than most when it comes to I-AA football, but you knew all of this already? All of this information was either new to me or else stuff that I had heard as rumors before. Nonetheless (i.e. - even if you already knew all of this) it certainly seems like topic-worthy discussion for fans of the program and conference v. , no? Side note - when you asked on page 2
Fordham's AD was approached about joining the A-10 when the CAA was going to take it over and they said no. What has changed? - the thing that changed is that (depending on when this was asked of us) we either had our old President in place or else a new one who wasn't going to support any changes until he addressed other things and got into the details. Now that he has more time under his belt, he has confirmed our support for scholarship football (and also his pleasure with association with the PL schools). That's a pretty big change imo. I understand we don't carry the weight of a full member but certainly it's good for those hoping for full schollys that one of the current affiliates is in support as well.

2. Even if there isn't enough new information for someone as tied into I-AA football as you are, at a minimum it's yet another data point that gate13's contentions that Colgate is leading the charge on scholarships and that the PL seems to have gained alot more traction on the issue. To me, this lends more weight to his further predictions that it's only a matter of time and that the league will move forward with or without HC. Again, imo, certainly a message board worthy point/discussion, no?

3. I disagree that the HC quote is consistent with what you said before that Fordham and HC would have marginally increased Title IX issues with a move to scholarship football. Not only did our admin confirm that Title IX is one of the key issues holding HC back (they didn't say it was the only thing) but the HC thread details why they believe it's a significant increase, at least as it relates to Colgate in the part of the quote from the HC poster that you didn't include in your comment:
hc69

As '13 points out, their need-based football aid is already in their athletically related aid. Some of ours isn't. That's because we guarantee all admits 100% of need, while Colgate does not. So if one of our football players gets only need-based aid (i.e., we don't give him an athletics grant in lieu of work-study), his aid is not athletically related. This is reflected in the athletically related aid part of the EADA report. Colgate reports about $4 million for men's sports, while we report $2.3 million. It's not that they're giving almost $2 million more in need-based aid, but that some of ours isn't athletically related. '13 is also correct in that Colgate could reallocate some need-based aid to scholarships without triggering Title IX considerations, because that money is already counted.
Again, this at least provides a separate data point that would confirm how it's possible that our admin official would tell us that "they (HC) have some Title IX issues that we wouldn't have to deal with in moving to scholarship football." Both of those data points would also negate your comment that Fordham and HC are in the same boat and that HC only has a 'marginal' increase ahead of them to make the decision. Not to mention that there seems to at least be differing informed opinions than your ""If they are in scholarship football they'd have the same issues with scholarships they already have, and it would not affect any other sports", " Now I have yet to find anyone who knows Title IX well enough to convince me that their view of the situation is dead-on, so I'm not sure if you're saying that you know it better than the poster hc69 on the HC board or the person(s) at HC who told our admin that they have bigger Title IX issues than us or what, but I think these much more concrete data points are exactly the kind of stuff pertinent for our message board (or this one) to discuss.

[LBPop]

Thread or no thread, the Patriot League presidents have been looking at football scholarships since last fall. There is serious movement here. Right now Holy Cross is the obstacle - but it will be a delay; not an obstruction.

Sounds like you actually have some real information. I have commented frequently about my impressions of the new Georgetown AD, but they were merely observations. Can I assume that you are hearing that Georgetown would be on board with moving to scholarships for football? That would be exciting to hear in the LBPop household, but like always my timing sucks...should have had the son after the daughter. :bawling: ;)

[colgate13]

Sounds like you actually have some real information. I have commented frequently about my impressions of the new Georgetown AD, but they were merely observations. Can I assume that you are hearing that Georgetown would be on board with moving to scholarships for football? That would be exciting to hear in the LBPop household, but like always my timing sucks...should have had the son after the daughter. :bawling: ;)

Pop, G'Town is the school I actually don't know anything about. I can only speculate that since I haven't heard the same pushback like I have about HC, that they are on board in some manner or haven't commented.

Here's why I think they are on board: yes, Georgetown has 1/2 to 1/3 the budget of the rest of the league. That alone though doesn't preclude the use of scholarships. Perhaps scholarships could make the money that the Hoyas do have go farther? Basically, a move to scholarships doesn't necessarily mean an increase in spending. If anything, part of the sell for PL schools is that we won't be spending anymore since we already fund our programs north of 50 equivalencies.

[LBPop]

Pop, G'Town is the school I actually don't know anything about. I can only speculate that since I haven't heard the same pushback like I have about HC, that they are on board in some manner or haven't commented.


I'll keep my eyes and ears open for any indications. As it happens I am a bit closer to this administration and this staff than I was the prior. That's no reflection on the previous folks...it just kind of evolved that way.