Does the UNCW-Samford-Coastal rumor make sense?

[GSU Eagle]

It could very well be just rumor spreading but I am hearing more and more about the possibility of UNCW, Coastal, and Samford all being brought in to the SoCon. I can't see the logic of a 14 team conference-- I mean isn't that a bit too big.

Samford and Coastal would bring the SoCon to 10 football schools-- that would mean 9 conference games and only 2 non-conference games. I really don't know if that is desirable or not. If UNCW adds a football team which is at least being mentioned as a possibility then you have 11 football playing schools.

From the baseball/basketball perspective 14 teams would certainly mean 2 7-team divisions. If basketball that would probably be 19 conference games (2 times the 6 division foes and 1 game vs. the other 7). I don't really believe many schools want to play 19 conference games, do they?

Time will tell if all these rumors have any basis in reality.

I could see adding Coastal Carolina to the conference but I don't really know about going to a 14 team conference.

[rokamortis]

The reason it makes sense is because it is a 'perfect compromise' solution as has been mentioned previously. The problem is that there is not an ideal candidate that would meet the criteria for all schools.

I know this is repeated for most but I figured I should touch on the high points for anyone not familiar. Supposedly the small / private schools don't want another public school. Conversely, the large public schools don't want another private. I think some of the SC schools don't want another SC school to compete with recruits since Coastal is at a disadvantage in the Big South. Samford would give UTC a regional school, otherwise they may be looking elsewhere. Samford and Coastal don't bring much in terms of basketball, so UNCW is added to make the basketball schools feel better. This would appease everyone but doesn't make anyone happy.

I don't see a problem with 9 league football games - gives you the chance to schedule 2 OOC games. I think that is enough flexibility as you can have any combination of 2: I-A, I-AA OOC, or DII games. Also makes scheduling easier. I don't think Wilmington is anywhere close to adding a football team, their last official word was that it is too expensive. Maybe in 5-10 years, but the conference could change a lot in that time frame.

I'm not sure if the divisions make sense or not for basketball but seems many conferences are going this route. It makes sense for all other sports as travel should be cut down a bit and hopefully minimize the number of days of school a student-athlete misses.

Whether the rumors have any validity or not remains to be seen. Also, the question if the compromise could even work is another issue - hopefully we'll find out soon.

[tarmac]

If it goes to 14 don't look for it to stay there very long. Just an opinion.

[thirdgendin]

Why not go for just Samford? That would make Chattanooga happy, right?

[youwouldno]

10 football schools might make sense if I-AA goes to 12 games. If not, no chance IMHO.

[chattanoogamocs]

Honestly, of all the teams in the OVC, Samford would probably be the team most Mocfans care the least about (and that is not meant to be an insult, just the truth)...besides only being two hours away, we have zero in common (most would rather have JSU).

I think the Samford thing is more of a "private school thing" with a "close to UC bonus" :)

Ok, so just to throw this out, I have now heard from the 3 different "in the know" contacts the same thing as many others are saying throughout the conference...UNCW, CCU, and Samford...but to throw in an extra kicker, I was also told that if any of those teams balked, the next school contacted would be VMI.

Can I name names? Of course not, they would never tell me a thing again...just like they can't say because it would get them in trouble for leaking. For information purposes, this info was "re-affirmed" within the last 24 hours (and after a number of beers).

But, I will now make the following qualifications:

Now no one who I have talked to told me that these are the one's who are joining, just that thes are who the conference will be "going after" (and/or have already had overtures of the same from those institutions). If I were to rank them by "who wants to join the most" it would be in this order...

CCU (duh),

VMI (many of their alums...and admins (I heard an earful from one faculty member)...didn't want to leave in the first place...they are really missing the SoCon...and the Citadel),

UNCW (non football schools are getting pretty lonely in the CAA),

Samford (imho a wild card...though they might feel more at home with numerous privates as opposed to being the only one...call them the Vanderbilt of the OVC xlolx)

I think, at least in theory, they are trying to make a lot of people happy...a school dedicated to a strong IAA football program (and as CCU fans will points out, with other good programs too), a school with a great basketball tradition (a mid-major power in name recognition), and another private to "keep the balance" that also double as at least one school closer than 4 hours to Chattanooga.

Of course, if Samford didn't come and you add 3 teams with round trip distances between 850 and 1,100 miles from Chattanooga (we already have four 800 plus round trips as is)...that could be the final straw in UC's conference affiliation with the SoCon.

Final Note:
I would hope that those that know me well, know that I am usually dead on in my information...I am one to run my mouth very often...which is why I get good info...the only reason I have have now posted my thoughts is because so much has already been written, so I am not really breaking any new ground here (except maybe for the VMI part), just giving more validity to the claim.

[*****]

I have heard the VMI part too.

[Tealblood]

You guys better watch out none of you have gotten this in the open from an official of the SOCON.

[walliver]

I understand the politics involved, but I don't think it makes sense to bring in Samford AND CCU unless the SoCon has good reason to think that one or more teams are leaving soon. 9 conference games only leaves 2 OOC games. I fear that this could put us in a situation like the SWAC, who nobody really knows how good we are because we only play each other. Or, even worse, they could go to one of those horrible situations where teams do not play everybody else every year.

On the other hand, if ASU and GSU move out (not up) to I-A, we could bring in Samford, Coastal and VMI. (I've heard the VMI rumors for the last year or two - I don't think VMI really wanted to leave, but I've heard that ETSU was opposed to letting them take their football out of the conference - I would never allow ETSU back unless they apologize to VMI and agree to play football outdoors like it should be).

[vmisport]

Being the only VA-based SC school with very limited opportunities to play a 1A and VA schools such as JMU, W&M, UR, and others due to SC schedule, it just didn't make sense to stay in the SC. The SC is a great conference, but the BSC for now gives VMI the opportunity each year to play state rivals...........this year: in state: JMU, UR, W&M, Liberty, Norfolk State, and 1A Army, and traditional rival, Citadel. As you can see, you add Coastal, and others, and this is a formidable schedule for VMI. The crime is that there are only 4 home games this year! (we bring more fans to UR game in Richmond so it may be considered a neutral site, but UR is very strong). New refurbished stadium and expanded facilities and new turf practice field and only 4 home games.
If the SC is just looking for the best W/L record in football, VMI is not going to be the best fit. If it is seeking a quality program in more than the athletic sense, and can provide flexibility, then VMI may be a good candidate. I don't know at this time really how either SC or VMI feel about the chance of remarriage.

[JaxSinfonian]

Perhaps this is just my unwillingess to concede anything to an in-state rival, but I can't understand why the SoCon would want Samford, beyond it being a small private school near UTC.

The Bulldogs will not strengthen the quality of football (though baseball and men's basketball will contend immediately). Despite being in Alabama's largest media market, they will bring very little in the way of media attention. Fans? Football attendance averaged 5,939 this season. It wouldn't have been that high if not for the last two home games, against Tennessee State and JSU. I'm sure the Tigers brought a big crowd, and I know there were as many JSU fans in the stadium as Samford fans, if not more.

Yes, part of the reason for my post is jealousy. JSU wanted in the SoCon when it wasn't looking to expand, so we went to the OVC. Samford joining with JSU helped make that a little easier to swallow. Now the SoCon is looking for new members and they want Samford? If they bolt the OVC, we're all alone down here on the southern fringe of the conference. A lot of us have been hoping for a UTC defection to the OVC, which JSU fans would love, making the conference feel a little more like home. I have to assume that would be less likely if the SoCon takes Samford to keep the Mocs happy.

[Saint3333]

I would love to play conference games in bball and mandate no D2 games. This would raise the conference RPI a great deal.

As for football 10 is an odd number. I'd like to have at least 3 OOC games, so either add one football school or 4 so there would be 12 football schools. I'd vote with the Mocs here, add one, JSU.

The best scenerio would be to add JSU, UNCW, and Winthrop. Helps football, basketball, and baseball, and keeps UTC happy.

Would JSU join the SoCon, if so someone get on the phone!

[DotCat]

I too heard that VMI would love to be back in the SoCon.

I also recently heard that the new SoCon commish did want to enlarge the league with football playing in divisions too.

[rokamortis]

I also recently heard that the new SoCon commish did want to enlarge the league with football playing in divisions too.

Really? I guess he likes the A-10 / CAA model? It seems to have worked for them, but will/can it work for the SoCon?

[JaxSinfonian]

Would JSU join the SoCon, if so someone get on the phone!

I dunno anymore. That'd be a tough call. I think the administration would have done it in a heartbeat once upon a time.

The OVC is not the strongest football league in the world (though not awful, as many contend), and has turned out to be a shortcut to the postseason for JSU. Playing in the SoCon would put us up against tougher & more prestigious competition. But the Gamecocks have lived that life before, back in the ol' SFL - it wasn't a great life.

A lot about JSU's program has changed since then, and I think the team would fare better in the SoCon today than in the SFL a few years back. But winning conference titles and playing in the postseason again has revived a lot of interest in the program. The OVC's autobid is an easier path to the playoffs than running the SoCon gauntlet.

Tough call.

[SoCon48]

You guys better watch out none of you have gotten this in the open from an official of the SOCON.

I heard Wingate and Chowan were being courted.

[SoCon48]

..and Willkes Community College.

[MplsBison]

VMI vs Citdel.

Which military college can...do... stuff better?

[ekufbfan]

At one time there was a lot of talk about EKU joining the So Con, but the EKU President at the time was against anything that advanced athletics, and in particular football. Thankfully he is gone, but not without setting us back 10 years before he finally departed! I think we are just now beginning to recover from the damage that he did to the entire university. Nevertheless, we missed our chance to join the So Con and I know there were a lot of EKU fans wanting it at the time. We were very competitive with GSU and Furman, and with then conference member, Marshall (we had a great rivalry going with Marshall for a couple of years, we are only about a two hour drive from Huntington). To add to our OVC discontent, our old and natural rival, wku, is gone from the OVC as is MTSU, who we had a great-friendly rivalry going for years. I don't know if the So Con would want us now, but I think the So Con is still attractive to EKU, but only if App State, GSU and Furman continue as members. These are the schools that EKU played back in our good years and that is who EKU fans remember and associate with the So Con.

[MarkCCU]

Not to be an ass, but did you miss the other Coastal, Samford, UNCW thread?

[ekufbfan]

Not to be an ass, but did you miss the other Coastal, Samford, UNCW thread?


If you were talking to me? ???? I'll be glad to move the message, but I am not sure why that would be so important to you?:confused:

[chattanoogamocs]

Not to be an ass, but did you miss the other Coastal, Samford, UNCW thread?

Whether (whoever the comment was for) the other thread or not, the original had degenerated into smack and a long serious of questions/answers joking about 12 step programs.

That is why I decided to wait and then posted my one comment about the subject on this thread.

Of course, it never takes long for any kind of attempt at a serious discussion to devolve, so I guess I have no reason to be surprised (or uspet...which I am not). :rolleyes:

[ekufbfan]

Whether (whoever the comment was for) the other thread or not, the original had degenerated into smack and a long serious of questions/answers joking about 12 step programs.

That is why I decided to wait and then posted my one comment about the subject on this thread.

Of course, it never takes long for any kind of attempt at a serious discussion to devolve, so I guess I have no reason to be surprised (or uspet...which I am not). :rolleyes:


Thanks chatt..I am GLAD I didn't waste my time looking for the other one!

[OL FU]

I have been and continue to be surprised at the Samford possibility. I tire of the privates (yep I belong to one) desire to keep the balance of power versus the desire to strengthen the conference.

I like others am opposed to more than 9 football playing teams. I don't like picking a champion with conference teams playing different conference schedules. The only reason the SoCon should have more than nine teams is if the SoCon is sure one (or more) of its football playing members is leaving the conference.

I like most am concerned about Chattanooga, but on the other hand the only school that has departed and was close to Chattanooga was ETSU. Did one school make that much difference in Chatt's geographic concerns? Or did it just highlight a problem that already existed? I doubt seriously bringing in one team close to Chatt will fix the problem, especially if that school is Samford.

My first choices would be JSU and EKU. Next would be Coastal. I don't see any reason to take Samford without a larger Alabama school joining them.

[SoCon48]

I have been and continue to be surprised at the Samford possibility. I tire of the privates (yep I belong to one) desire to keep the balance of power versus the desire to strengthen the conference.

I like others am opposed to more than 9 football playing teams. I don't like picking a champion with conference teams playing different conference schedules. The only reason the SoCon should have more than nine teams is if the SoCon is sure one (or more) of its football playing members is leaving the conference.

I like most am concerned about Chattanooga, but on the other hand the only school that has departed and was close to Chattanooga was ETSU. Did one school make that much difference in Chatt's geographic concerns? Or did it just highlight a problem that already existed? I doubt seriously bringing in one team close to Chatt will fix the problem, especially if that school is Samford.

My first choices would be JSU and EKU. Next would be Coastal. I don't see any reason to take Samford without a larger Alabama school joining them.
I like others am opposed to more than 9 football playing teams. I don't like picking a champion with conference teams playing different conference schedules.

Totally agree. The stupid thing we have going in basketball now where one team is champ of a division with 4 teams it is hillarious.

[OL FU]

I like others am opposed to more than 9 football playing teams. I don't like picking a champion with conference teams playing different conference schedules.

Totally agree. The stupid thing we have going in basketball now where one team is champ of a division with 4 teams it is hillarious.

I don't disagree but BBall doesn't bother me as much as football. The tournament decides the champ (which is a little strange when you consider it). In the SoCon when we say the schedule helps or hurts we are speaking of home and away games, when the A-10 poster says the same thing they are thinking, we don't play particular teams during a season. :nonono2:

[OL FU]

For once in my life I wanted to think before posting:eek: :o to make sure I was not about to say something that I would regret. Well I did not change my mind.

VMI was a member in the SoCon before Furman, Davidson, Citadel. VMI joined in '25. The others mention joined in '32. (Which is also when The College and Richmond joined). I typically give a lot to history in this situation, but I don't see why the SoCon would invite VMI back. They had not been competitive in football in my memory and rarely in BBall. I would have preferred that the Keydets not leave but now that they are gone, I would not invite them back. The exception to this would be if they brought another Virginia school with them. Or if the Citadel is threatening to leave unless they are offered the opportunity.

ETSU ( I can't remember if they were mentioned in this thread or not) but no way should the SoCon forgive them and welcome them back. :nono:

[Ken_Z]

ETSU ( I can't remember if they were mentioned in this thread or not) but no way should the SoCon forgive them and welcome them back. :nono:

explain please. i thought they were booted because they dropped football. is dropping and reinstating football an unforgivable sin, or is my understanding of the situation incorrect?

[OL FU]

explain please. i thought they were booted because they dropped football. is dropping and reinstating football an unforgivable sin, or is my understanding of the situation incorrect?

Others probably know more.

Here is the summary:

1. ETSU was supposedly the biggest opponent to allowing VMI to drop SoCon football and remain in the conference otherwise. So VMI departed.
2. Without notice or warning, ETSU dropped football leaving the SoCon scheduling in deep doo-doo. Naturally, the Socon did not take to that very well and used the same rule to force ETSU to leave as was used against VMI.

I think most would feel differently if ETSU had provided some warning etc instead of just announcing that football was no more.

There are others who I am sure know more than I so feel free to confirm or disagree.

[walliver]

ETSU was supposedly the biggest opponent to allowing VMI to drop SoCon football and remain in the conference otherwise. So VMI departed.

My understanding is basically the same. VMI wanted to take their football team out of the SoCon for a rebuilding period of 5 years or so, and hopefully rejoin after that. My guess is that they thought they could rebuild the football team easier if it was winning more games. ETSU was apparently the main opponent of that. In fact, ETSU was the only school that I have heard mentioned that was strongly opposed. VMI apparently read the writing on the wall and never actually petitioned the SoCon for a football waiver (which would not have been unprecedented considering the Davidson situation).

I would take back VMI long before I would take back ETSU :nod:

[SoCon48]

My understanding is basically the same. VMI wanted to take their football team out of the SoCon for a rebuilding period of 5 years or so, and hopefully rejoin after that. My guess is that they thought they could rebuild the football team easier if it was winning more games. ETSU was apparently the main opponent of that. In fact, ETSU was the only school that I have heard mentioned that was strongly opposed. VMI apparently read the writing on the wall and never actually petitioned the SoCon for a football waiver (which would not have been unprecedented considering the Davidson situation).

I would take back VMI long before I would take back ETSU :nod:

ETSU would be much tougher competion for Wofford than VMI. ETSU actually drew crowds to football games on the road.

[SoCon48]

For once in my life I wanted to think before posting:eek: :o to make sure I was not about to say something that I would regret. Well I did not change my mind.

VMI was a member in the SoCon before Furman, Davidson, Citadel. VMI joined in '25. The others mention joined in '32. (Which is also when The College and Richmond joined). I typically give a lot to history in this situation, but I don't see why the SoCon would invite VMI back. They had not been competitive in football in my memory and rarely in BBall. I would have preferred that the Keydets not leave but now that they are gone, I would not invite them back. The exception to this would be if they brought another Virginia school with them. Or if the Citadel is threatening to leave unless they are offered the opportunity.

ETSU ( I can't remember if they were mentioned in this thread or not) but no way should the SoCon forgive them and welcome them back. :nono:
But the SoCon shouldn't be so petty an inconsistent as to allow another non-football school in.
I don't recall anyone losing $ because ETSU left holes in the schedule.
As I recall, we all played ETSU a full scheduled season after they announced leaving. In fact, many of us took their transfers a full season and half in advance.
So all they stuff about how they announced or didn't announce their leaving is a bunch of hoey.

[OL FU]

But the SoCon shouldn't be so petty an inconsistent as to allow another non-football school in.
I don't recall anyone losing $ because ETSU left holes in the schedule.
As I recall, we all played ETSU a full scheduled season after they announced leaving. In fact, many of us took their transfers a full season and half in advance.
So all they stuff about how they announced or didn't announce their leaving is a bunch of hoey.

Hooey or not, you can't say VMI has to go, but we ETSU wantsto stay.

I would have felt much better about a 70 year member skipping football for awhile.

And my understanding is they announced without warning or notice, no conversation with theSoCon or the Socon teams. Whether it caused scheduling harm or not, that is a very very inappropriate way to deal with your partners. :eek:

We should not want them back

[SoCon48]

Hooey or not, you can't say VMI has to go, but we ETSU wantsto stay.

I would have felt much better about a 70 year member skipping football for awhile.

And my understanding is they announced without warning or notice, no conversation with theSoCon or the Socon teams. Whether it caused scheduling harm or not, that is a very very inappropriate way to deal with your partners. :eek:

We should not want them back

Maybe you're right. But geez, we now are rumored going after Coastal, Samford, Hampton.
Progress.:bawling:

[SoCon48]

And my understanding is they announced without warning or notice, no conversation with theSoCon or the Socon teams.

I guess danny Boy could have loaned them the money to keep football afloat.

[OL FU]

And my understanding is they announced without warning or notice, no conversation with theSoCon or the Socon teams.

I guess danny Boy could have loaned them the money to keep football afloat.

xlolx xlolx xlolx

The point is most schools, unless horribly managed, know in advance when a sport has to disappear.

Once bitten twice shy:smiley_wi

[MarkCCU]

If you were talking to me? ???? I'll be glad to move the message, but I am not sure why that would be so important to you?:confused:

it was directed at the author of the thread. it doesn't have great importance to me,but if there is already a thread on a topic, why start a thread on the same topic. the two seemed to be the same stuff about the SOCON rumors:twocents:

[MarkCCU]

Whether (whoever the comment was for) the other thread or not, the original had degenerated into smack and a long serious of questions/answers joking about 12 step programs.

That is why I decided to wait and then posted my one comment about the subject on this thread.

Of course, it never takes long for any kind of attempt at a serious discussion to devolve, so I guess I have no reason to be surprised (or uspet...which I am not). :rolleyes:

Igotcha, :thumbsup:

[GSU Eagle]

I believe ETSU pretty much burned the bridges as they departed the conference. I would be very, very surprised to see ETSU ever reenter the SoCon.

All these expansion rumors -- what we have now Jacksonville St., Hampton, Samford, EKU, Coastal Carolina, VMI and who else.

The only school who has pretty much publicly stated that they want an invite to the SoCon is Coastal Carolina. Obviously there is some opposition to that from some league members or it already would have been done.

I am beginning to wonder if there is any school or even combination of schools that the membership would support-- it does take a 2/3 vote (8 of 11 schools) to admit someone, doesn't it?

[OL FU]

I believe ETSU pretty much burned the bridges as they departed the conference. I would be very, very surprised to see ETSU ever reenter the SoCon.

All these expansion rumors -- what we have now Jacksonville St., Hampton, Samford, EKU, Coastal Carolina, VMI and who else.

The only school who has pretty much publicly stated that they want an invite to the SoCon is Coastal Carolina. Obviously there is some opposition to that from some league members or it already would have been done.

I am beginning to wonder if there is any school or even combination of schools that the membership would support-- it does take a 2/3 vote (8 of 11 schools) to admit someone, doesn't it?

Probably I went back and researched some of the old ETSU press and it required 2/3's for the football rule to be removed for them.

[SoCon48]

xlolx xlolx xlolx

The point is most schools, unless horribly managed, know in advance when a sport has to disappear.

Once bitten twice shy:smiley_wi
If you recall what happened was the Tennessee State Legislature declared they would not make up deficits from athletic programs with state $$.

[SoCon48]

xlolx xlolx xlolx

The point is most schools, unless horribly managed, know in advance when a sport has to disappear.

Once bitten twice shy:smiley_wi

The point is most schools, unless horribly managed
Sounds like the SoCon itself over the past decade.xcoffeex

[Golden Eagle]

If you recall what happened was the Tennessee State Legislature declared they would not make up deficits from athletic programs with state $$.

Yep, it seemed like we had a budget crisis pop up out of nowhere.

[OL FU]

If you recall what happened was the Tennessee State Legislature declared they would not make up deficits from athletic programs with state $$.

Did that happen over night?

They don't have alumni contributors?


To be honest I argue this one without that good a memory of the facts. But I do remember hearing from some pretty good sources that my alma mater was ready for them to go and the reasons seemed justified at the time (mainly ETSU insisting that VMI play football in the SoCon or leave and then ...yada yada) and left ETSU on a very bad footing with most SoCon Schools.

and it makes sense to me.

[bodoyle]

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/sports/14813597.htm


"I guess [expansion] has been on the agenda the last few times," said Iamarino, who took over his position in January. "The presidents have asked for information on the subject, and that's the next step." What the hell? Are you a moron? You have no idea what happened in the meetings before you took over? xidiotx :bang: :eek:


Iamarino addressed few elements of the topic specifically, but he did say that the league has not had contact with Coastal Carolina for some time. He also said the 11-team (eight football-playing members) league is still debating whether to expand to 12 schools or 14. During an interview with The Sun News in February, Iamarino said he preferred the larger number, although on Monday he said he would not go into those specifics either.

[OL FU]

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/sports/14813597.htm

What the hell? Are you a moron? You have no idea what happened in the meetings before you took over? xidiotx :bang: :eek:

Sounds like the SoCon is ok with taking its time. or the schools are not in agreement with the proposals. (Hard to believe uh)

Another possibility is the decision for 12 teams or 14 teams is a big one especially if more than 9 play football. I can imagine that would cause some of the football coaches difficulty. If we have 10 fball playing schools would the conference mandate playing each one. I doubt it. If the conference controls the schedule there could be years that Furman would not play ASU or GSU. :eek: There could be years that Furman (or somebody else) could be champ without playing ASU or GSU.

My guess is though that the real story is more likely the following;

If the choices are CCU, Samford and UNC Wilimington, notmuch is going to change in 6 months. The BSouth is not going to expand that fast and even if it does it will not get an auto-bid, UNCW will still be out of sync geography wise with the CAA and Samford ( I am still not sure what to say about that one).

[SoCon48]

but he did say that the league has not had contact with Coastal Carolina for some time

Looks like he rifled through Danny Boy's correspondence file.